Counterpoint: A Different View Of The Devil

Wars Are Fought In Who's Name?

Recorded in the bible are some of the most barbarous, acts of murder ever commited and they are preformed in the name of God. Think about how many people have been killed in the name of God versus in the name of the Devil, no army has ever marched off to war in the name of the Devil.

If God, as according to the Bible, is all powerful and rules all of heaven and earth; how can the devil be a fallen angel? Doesn't God have supreme power over angels and all creation in heaven and earth? How did a "perfect angel" stand to revolt against God? If God is almighty and powerful, the Creator of all things, why couldn't he destroy the one who revolted against Him? Why would God allow an angel to destroy His creation?

Isaiah 14 is frequently used to support the fallen angel theory. The context of this chapter (Isaiah 14: 4) states, “take up this proverb against the king of Babylon”, in which it continues to speak of the greatness of Nebuchadnezzar and then his fall from power. Isaiah writes in a poetic and metaphoric way, regarding a great and powerful ruler has “fallen from heaven," and this isn't the only time he does so; Isaiah uses the 'heaven' metaphor to refer to other rulers, or leaders.

If the Devil is a “single being,” how is he able to tempt and torment 6 billion people on earth? Is he an omnipresent diety, like God? If you believe he is ominpresent, wouldn't that make him a god? Maybe the Devil has magic powers like Santa Clause? How does the Devil defy God and harm people? Would a good God let the Devil harm people?

Now if the Devil isn’t omnipresent, but has demonic minions running around causing problems; then why does God allow these demons to tempt and cause harm to those created in God's own image? Wouldn't we still have free will without a devil? I mean come on... people always wil "reap what they sow," won't they? If God can stop the demon's from causing evil, sin, or torment; but doesn’t... then isn’t God an accomplice? What would we say about a justice system who opens the doors of a jail, and allows the convicts to roam free amongst law abiding society? It seems to me that if there are billions of demons, say...one for each human on the planet... I would think that most demons would just get bored and give up. Besides what do they have to gain really?

Does it make sense? it was the early Christians who invented the devil. In many belief sysytems there is a light side and dark side to give an ideological balance. Its humans that seek out balance; not too many other known creatures have such a pre-occupation with balance of opposites. This ideology goes way back to ancient Egypt. even the Chinese have the concept of Ying and Yang.

New World Order: The Devil In The Vatican

Modern Culture's Influence

Modern culture, with thanks especially from the horror genre, has had an impact on our "understanding" of paranormal, and have lead many to label these unexplainable events or moments as "Satanic." Giving discredit to those who attempt to seriously study the parapsychology phenomena, as a possible reality

Since the beginning of time man has been afraid of the dark, by nature he feared the unseen presence of evil spirits that the night brought with it. And man being man created rituals to protect himself from them. Most early societies had an evil counterpoint to good just as there was dark from light. Eventually these rituals would mold into and become religious beliefs. The face of evil would be named; some of the more famous names used were Satan,Lucifer, Beelzebub, and the Prince of Darkness. Demons and the Devil are an important part of many key religions, however the origin of the Devil is not so unholy. Judaism, which is the religion that both Christianity and Islam sprouted from, and is in many ways a recorded history of ancient mythologies and beliefs. As the Hebrews came into contact with other societies during their wanderings, the Hebrews absorbed many of other cultures mythic legends, heroes and villains...and Lucifer was one of those entities.

As many of you know from reading or research:

"...Lucifer is Latin for 'Light Bearer' and was a Roman deity associated with the planet Venus, (which was known as Lucifer in Roman astrology) before Venus, daughter of Jupiter, was promoted from Goddess of vegetation to Goddess of love and beauty with the planet renamed in her honor (Roman and Greek Gods and Goddesses were big into nepotism). Lucifer was called the 'Light Bearer' because the planet Venus was the morning star, that arose in the sky heralding the dawn. As a deity Lucifer came to personify the quest for light, which is the polar opposite of what we think about when we hear the name Lucifer. He was by no means an evil force, history reveals was Lucifer the antithesis of darkness and evil. The Hebrews never associated him with Satan, nor did the early Christians, the name had a positive connotation, was generally interpreted as meaning 'illumination' it was a popular name with the female form Lucinda or Lucy, which meant, "person who searched for knowledge.

Lucifer was adopted by the ancient Hebrews and retooled Shahar God of the dawn, Jerusalem means 'House of Shalem' and has ties to the worship of Venus the 'Bringer of Light'. In the Christian context it was cleric Origenes Adamantius [185-254CE] of the early Greek Church who first claimed Lucifer was the Devil, a concept championed by Augustine of Canterbury in 7th century England based on mistranslation. Lucifer was equated with Satan by St. Jerome in his Vulgate which claimed he was the serpent in the Garden of Eden who tempted Adam & Eve to transgress. He erroneously translated 'Heylel', which means Venus in

Hebrew, into Lucifer and an allusion to Satan when it wasn't. One of the reasons he equated Lucifer with Satan was politics, his hatred of an orthodox movement started in the 4th century by the Bishop of Cagliari, Lucifer Calaritanus, who founded a group called the Luciferians. By equating Lucifer with Satan he ensured that his heretical views on Christ's divinity and relationship with Jahova, etc, would be thought Satanic and not resuscitated.

There is no scriptural source designating Lucifer as Satan, nonetheless the Church taught he was an angel cast out of heaven because he wanted to take over the throne of Jahova. However it would be religious popular fiction which would cement Lucifer as another face of Satan, the 'Divine Comedy' by Alighieri Dante [1265-1321] and 'Paradise Lost' by John Milton [1608-1675]. It was at this period Mephistopheles entered the lexicon of Hell's overlord, the name a play on Lucifer, meaning 'not loving the light'. It has no scriptural basis, it's a medieval literary creation in the Faust novella which became an accepted part of Christian mythology in the same way Dante's view of Hell or Milton's view of Satan came to define the church position."

The "creature of darkness" in Judeo-Christian and Islamic theology is of course, Satan. Satan's origins are a bit complex but do predate the theologies which defined him as the opposite of the God of love and justice. Pre-Islamic Arabs were plagued by monsterous sand storms and the hot stinging whirlwinds that could last for days, even weeks. and would often claim lives. These Pre-Islam Arabs believed that these winds were an evil spirit called "al-Shairan" also known as "Saitan," and various rituals were performed to protect tribes from its wrath. Early Hebrews who came into contact with these Arabs absorbed tales of this evil spirit into their culture, and over time these tales were incorporated into scripture and translated "Sathane" meaning "Slanderer" or "Adversary."

"Spirituality in Judaism differs from Christian and Islamic views. To ancient Hebrews Satan had a different meaning, like in the days of the Prophet Mohammed the term 'Jihad' meant a faithful persons struggle with inner demons, temptations and worldly distractions from spiritual enlightenment, so too did Satan. Who was looked upon as a metaphor for the inner struggle, his name denoted something one struggled with spiritually, figuratively not literally, later generations redefined the legend under external cultural influences including Zoroastrianism which provided concepts of good vs. evil duality. He came to represent the forces of darkness, pure evil. Jewish scholars taught he was responsible for sins recorded in the Torah, mans fall from grace in Eden and evil extant in the world. Like Lucifer the persona of Satan changed in the Christian context during the medieval period to give an increasingly reactionary Church more power, he was cast in the cloven hoof image of a goat, the pagan God Pan. Jewish, Christian and Islamic doctrines differ on what he is in the theological scheme of things, but North Africans still live in fear of the 'al-Shairan' or devil wind."

Another pre Judeo-Christian evil is Beelzebub, commonly called 'Lord of the Flies' he is regarded as the prince of evil spirits and Satan's chief lieutenant. Like other foreign deities the Hebrew clergy branded Beelzebub a false god, and evil. The entity was embraced by Christians as another name for the Devil.

A popular character in the religious realms of darkness is the Demon. As in other cases the origins of the Demon comes from the Greek 'Daimon' which means "replete with knowledge" or "divine power" or "fate". The ancient Greeks believed there were good demons and bad demons 'Cacodemons'. Socrates said he had a Daimon who warned of danger and bad judgment, it was more accurate than omens or reading the entrails of birds. Early Christian literature created the popular horror movie image of demons.

"The word Devil is a popular blanket term for the Judeo-Christian Satan, however it has no theological foundation, it's derived from the ancient Greek 'Diabolos' meaning "adversary or prosecutor" with no particular religious connotation, introduced into Christology in the medieval period which was a time of great theological inventiveness. The widely believed home of these pseudo evil entities is Hell, the original concept of an abode of the dammed has Persian origins, but was a place where disobedient wives were dispatched. In the Judeo-Christian context Hell means different things to both groups, the ancient Hebrews adopted the concept from the ancient Greeks 'Hades' which means 'the unseen place' and 'underworld' where the spirits of the dead repose without any moral judgment. The Hebrews translated 'Hades' as 'Sheol', like the Greeks the Hebrews referred to Sheol as simply an abode of the dead, a place of waiting for final judgment. The popular image of Hell as being a place of horrendous eternal torment is a product of Christian mythology, the works of authors such as Dante and Milton whose imagery has no scriptural basis but is widely embraced nonetheless."

These myths are created from external cultural influences, from an age of fear. In our western culture, modern horror movies and novels have legitimized it and craved evil deeply in popular conscious. Those who investigate paranormal phenomena or ponder claims which are made should do so with an open mind and not feed into the notions of mythological creatures and concepts are not accepted any more.

Free Masons Land of Lucifer

Tracing The Steps

If you ask a believer the question, "If God is so good, why is there so much evil in the world?", he or she may answer, "Because of the Devil." If you ask that believer, "Who created the Devil?", he/she may then say that the Devil has always existed, not really wanting to say that such a creation was made by the all-good God. But , if it is looked from that view, then the Devil would be on par with God (who was the original being from which all creation comes.) Well then, the faithful may say, the Devil was one of God's creatures that rebelled; "the evil, fallen angel." That would make the Devil one of God's creations, and would suggest that God is not very powerful, if "he" can lose control of "his" creations so easily.

In reality, the image of both God and the Devil are the creations of humanbeings, not vice versa. Although "religious" fanatics may violently oppose this notion; religion is not based upon concrete and absolute truths. Because absolute truth, would be whenever "God" is portrayed as having form, whether human or animal, male or female, black, white or polka-dotted, it is not the Truth. In places where the skin of the inhabitants is red, the god may have red skin, and where the skin is white, the god may have white skin, and so on. It is completely not based on actual fact. Lands conquered by opposing warriors see their god defeated as well. The conquering faction places their deity in the light of the "righteous god." The conquered country's god is most of the time realigated to being considered evil or a "devil." 

America: The Daughter Of Satan?

Is It Just Ego Or The Devil?

He's not the enemy of God, his name really isn't Lucifer and he isn't even evil. And as far as leading Adam and Eve astray, that was a case of 4th century bad press, from a case of mistaken identity. "There's little or no evidence in the Bible for most of the characteristics and deeds commonly attributed to Satan," insists a UCLA professor with four decades in what he calls "the devil business."

"A strict reading of the Bible shows Satan to be less like Darth Vader and more and more like an overzealous prosecutor," said Henry Kelly, a UCLA professor emeritus of English and the former director of the university's Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies. "He's not so much the proud and angry figure who turns away from God as [he is] a Joseph McCarthy or J. Edgar Hoover. Satan's basic intention is to uncover wrongdoing and treachery, however overzealous and unscrupulous the means. But he's still part of God's administration."

Henry Kelly started his academic career at a Jesuit seminary and was ordained in four of the seven holy orders on the way to the priesthood, including the order of exorcist.

"It was at that time that I started my campaign to rehabilitate the devil — to deliver him from evil, as it were," Kelly said, "Satan: A Biography" by Henry Kelly is more than 40 years of research into the devil and religious and cultural traditions that have grown up around him, and is the third book by Kelly on this topic.

By Kelly's count, Satan only appears three times in the 45 books that make up the pre-Christian scriptures, the best known being in the Book of Job. On each occasion, Satan is still firmly part of what Kelly calls "God's administration," and his activities are done with the approval from "the Big Guy." But his actions aren't evil so much as consistent with the translation of "devil" and "satan," which literally mean "adversary" in Greek and Hebrew, respectively.

"His job is to test people's virtue and to report their failures," Kelly said.

Perhaps most surprising is not the figure Satan cuts, but his notable absences in the Old Testament. In the Bible's first reference to Lucifer, for instance, Satan doesn't appear. Originally written, the passage refers to the tyrannical Babylonian king who boasts of his conquests but who is "about to be cast to the ground." Kelly insists there's nothing more to the reference than as metaphor. "Lucifer is said to have fallen from Heaven,'" Kelly explained. "'This can't refer to a human being, so it must refer to Satan.' Subsequent church fathers found this reasoning persuasive, and so did everyone who followed them."

The only mentions of Lucifer in the New Testament (and there are three of them) refer to Jesus, Kelly said. "Jesus is called 'Lucifer' or 'the morning star' because he represents a new beginning."

In the Old Testament, Kelly said, can be found in Genesis. "Nobody in the Old Testament — or, for that matter, in the New Testament either — ever identifies the serpent of Eden with Satan," Kelly said. "The serpent is just the smartest animal, and he's motivated by envy after being jilted by Adam for Eve."

Kelly traces the correlation of Satan and the serpent to not long after the New Testament was completed. In the second-century Christian martyr Justin of Samaria first argued that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God, according to Kelly. "It starts with Justin Martyr, who implicates Satan in the fall of Adam and Eve. By causing Adam and Eve to fall, Satan caused his own fall," said Kelly, and by the time Satan gets to the New Testament, he is evil, he's an enemy of God.

This is not to say that Satan is likeable as the chief accuser of humankind.

In The Face of Evil

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Comments 75 comments

Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley 7 years ago from Saint Louis, MO

Excellent work here, St. James. Much for people to think on, unfortunately most to disagree with. I've had many a conversation about the vatican video. Foolish that no one notices these things. And as for the Free Mason video, this secret is true. One needs only to look very closely at the who what where when and hows and they will know this; there is also much more to be said than just what was presented in that video. Much to think about in this hub. Each answer could be a hub of its own.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Thank you Frieda, I know the videos bring up a whole another world of questions that are really not part of the context of my Hub. But I found it all interesting and thought I would try to add a new dimension.


Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley 7 years ago from Saint Louis, MO

Well I for one am very glad you put those in. It added fresh aspects and depth to the piece. You certainly are skilled at chosing videos and photos! I know the hard work that goes into that, as frivolous in topic as my hubs are compared to yours.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Your Hubs are far from frivolous. I really enjoy reading your writing. I am a fan!

I just wanted to see what kind of reaction writing something like this would bring. I wanted to challenge the status quo.


Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley 7 years ago from Saint Louis, MO

I'm curious myself. My first reaction was, excellent! My second was, what has he gotten himself into. My third what what have I gotten myself into. I'm definitely checking back for the responces! And thank you.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Believe me this has been stewing in a word file (that is now 17 pages long) for two month, before I even attempted to create a hub. This then sat for 4 days (along with 3 other potential hubs) before I posted.

But its out there now... we will see.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Maybe I should have said "the Devil made me do it" or that "the Devil is in the details"? But since my basis makes Ol' Scratch an advocate....


Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley 7 years ago from Saint Louis, MO

LOL!!!

Well, it's filed under "saints and scoundrels", not to mention anything with the Devil is sure to bring them in one way or another.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Most folks won't touch anything I write, or so it seems. I still float on the edges of Hubdom. I have a fantastic core audience, but I still feel more like an "underground" writer around here.

But I am perfectly ok with the quality of my readers. (present company included)


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

Where did you get those quotes? I opted out of the videos in capsules for now becasue someone told me that they couldn't watch them, but I gave information on wehre to get them on my hub, "The Long and Winding Road" and have tried to explain things, but yours......well my is just a toy compared to your ans I do hope that those who consider the Devil and Satan just want to destroy us really do wake up --as I said in my first paragraphs.


Frieda Babbley profile image

Frieda Babbley 7 years ago from Saint Louis, MO

Perhaps people read your stuff but don't comment. But I do know how you feel. It's my obnoxious humor that gives me any sort of crowd and even then, it's a game to be played. I feel exceptionally lucky to have some across your work. It's fascinating and full and easy to get lost in. Best to be surrounded by those who appreciate you than those who consider you a status. By the way, have you taken a watch at "Beyond Tomorrow" with Jean Parker and Harry Carey? It touches on this as well as the afterlife topic of heaven vs. hell. It's a romantic comedy with a twist. Very of the times, I'd say. I'm sure you've seen it, but if you haven't you may want to check it out.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Lady Guinevere... Most of the quotes are from Henry Kelly and his third book "Satan: A Biography" plus a few were found on random sites (which names escape me)during research. Thank you for posting your views...I am going to re-read "The Long and Winding Road."

Frieda... I have not seen "Beyond Tomorrow" but since now my curiousity is sparked it is on my "watch it" list. I appreciate your support.

Thank you both... I think you are wonderful.


cindyvine profile image

cindyvine 7 years ago from Kyiv, Ukraine

Hi James, definitely food for thought. Unfortunately, the videos don't open on a macbook. I find this whole topic fascinating. Maybe Lucifer's spaceship crashed and that's why he's the fallen angel?


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Lucifer was the planet Venus. The story of the fall of Lucifer is not in the bible, but the priests and nuns sure teach it like it is fact.

CindyVine the videos really don't have much to do with the hub, but I thought it added a twist. Thank you for taking the time to read.


cindyvine profile image

cindyvine 7 years ago from Kyiv, Ukraine

Actually, when you look into it, the Catholic Church have made up a lot of stuff and also hidden a lot of stuff they didn't want their followers to know.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

I'm with ya, and understand... I've done my Catholic time.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

Me too. There is a site that talks about the UFO connection to the Bible and then there is another site from the Druid perspective and it also has linked religin to ET's and such.

http://www.bibleufo.com/

http://www.druidcraft.us/


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Very interesting links Lady Guinevere.. Thank you for posting them


cindyvine profile image

cindyvine 7 years ago from Kyiv, Ukraine

Yeah, I remember years ago Eric von Dainkeken wrote the Chariots of the Gods which caused quite a stir at the time.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

I do have "Chariots of the Gods" and "Gods from Outerspace" I forgot about them until now... Thank you Cindy


cindyvine profile image

cindyvine 7 years ago from Kyiv, Ukraine

I read a book several years ago, think it was an Italian author, can't quite remember, but it was called The Face on Mars. He put forward the theory that Mars had been inhabited and a war broke out and they were harnessing asteroids and bombarding Mars with it. The people escaped and fled to Earth which he believed is where the theories about the Devil and Satan came from. Although it sounds like a science fictin story, it was actually non-fiction. He'd done so much research and believed he had the evidence to back up his theories. Christians quickly shut him down, but it was a very interesting book.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Holy Smokes...I have got to read that book! Cindy that sounds so incredible.


SoulaBee profile image

SoulaBee 7 years ago from United States

I've heard of that one, Cindy! Never read it. Going to have to remember that one!


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

You are one-up on me SoulaBee, this was the first time I've heard of it, but I am going to check it out....


cindyvine profile image

cindyvine 7 years ago from Kyiv, Ukraine

Yeah, he had all kinds of calculations, distances between planets, amazing. He also said that we all have knowledge about everything in us, so when we call Mars the planet of war it's because subconciously we know that a big war ocured there. It definietly made you think that book, I bought it at a book signing in a shopping mall about 10 or so years ago.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

I'm really looking forward to reading this book!


cindyvine profile image

cindyvine 7 years ago from Kyiv, Ukraine

I might be wrong, just remember that he had a foreign name, thought it was Italian but maybe not. Just got this off Amazon and think that this is the one.

The Face on Mars: Evidence for a Lost Civilization (Paperback)

by Randolfo Rafael Pozos (Author)


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Looks like I'm ordering me a new read! Cindy thank you for the suggestion.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

They also have fun with the Inner Earth stuff/ I wrote a forum post about it a few months back. Admiral Burd did all kinds of calculations on it and Mars was believed to included too.


cindyvine profile image

cindyvine 7 years ago from Kyiv, Ukraine

Yeah, if I remember, he included all the NASA photos and identified all kinds of things in them, was very interesting


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

I can't wait to read it!


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 7 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

This is just fabulous and really interesting. I was surprised to read that you feel you don't have a great following right now. You so deserve one, as the topics you write on are rivetting, and extremely well researched.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Well Misty, I think I do have a great following. It's that I not one of the in the fore-front writers. I'm still in the fringes, which is fine, because the people who read my stuff just aren't posers.

I'm just one of those writers that most people on here won't touch, and sometimes I do feel overlooked by the mainstream on here.

But that aside thank you for taking some time to read my work,


Jewels profile image

Jewels 7 years ago from Australia

This is a fantastic hub James, I've bookmarked it as a point of reference. I had nothing but YES coming out of my mouth. 

Throughout my time of transformation work, countless hours of meditation and self reflection, I came to understand my own dark side and as hard as it may be for some to understand, or most to understand, I found my own dark side to be glorious. (that was after excruciating and abysmal experiences - known in Christian context as "The Dark Night of the Soul."  That is very hard to explain to anyone who has not gone into the depths of themselves and come out the other side.  I came to see the work of Satan, or the experience of the dark side, as something divine and I came to respect it for what it is.  I don't hate the Devil, I don't avoid it, I don't fear it, I respect it. Is so interesting how anything to do with your own dark side becomes a case of suppression and avoidance and not ownership. Was a very powerful experience.

Again a wonderful read.


Iphigenia 7 years ago

This was a wonderful read - and the most thought-provoking thing that I have read for a long time (maybe ever). Your research and presentation is incredible aand your writing, as ever, flows superbly. I to shall be ordering that book that cindvine recommended - and maybe when you've read it you'll write a reveiew on HP to linl to this hub and keep the discussion open and have it grow wider.


blondepoet profile image

blondepoet 7 years ago from australia

Hi St.James wow this really makes you think about all this. You have got some really good points on this. I still can't believe how fast you put all this together. You are a natural.I need some tips.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Jewels... Thank you for sharing your personal experience. You are right many are afraid to look deep from within. Meditation is a wonderful part of my life as well. And thank you for your comments and depth.

Iphigenia... Thank you too, O tried my best to make this topic as compelling and thought provoking as possible. As well as I tried to present it all in a thought out manner. The Original version of this ended up being 17 pages long, so I had to greatly condense, and not miss the point.

I am looking forward to reading that book.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

BlondePoet...Thank you, but this really isn't something that happened over night. As I stated this started over 2 months ago, and I had beeen working on it of 4 days on here. So there was much more to it.

You don't need tips, you are doing well with your writing and poetry. Everyone has there own pace and this isn't a race. There is no deadlines to be met. If that were the case many writers would blow me out of the water. Stephen King alone is to writing what Picasso was to art. Talk about high-quality and high-output of the chosen craft.

Now that is amazing.

Thank you for taking the time to read this point-of-view.


blondepoet profile image

blondepoet 7 years ago from australia

I do believe in God I do as there had to be angels looking after me, there are more times in my life than I can count on all my fingers that I should have been dead. I guess I have my own views and I respect other people's beliefs. Some religions say that the devil just burns away in hell and others say if you die and go to hell,you just lay under the ground and never wake up.My father has some good points like he said if Adam and Eve were the first two people on earth,how come it says that they came to a neighbouring tribe.Lol.


cindyvine profile image

cindyvine 7 years ago from Kyiv, Ukraine

My very first lesson as a teacher ever, was doing a bible ed class first thing in the morning, and some smart arse kid asked, "If Adam and Eve were the only people on Earth, who did their kids marry? It can't have been ach other as that would be incest and the kids would be born all deformed." Bloody 10 year old smart arse!


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

BlondePoet... I believe there is something greater than ourselve watching over everyone.I know what you mean by near death moments. I don't believe in Hell. First of all I am told God has unconditional love. So if he loves me no matter what, and created this perfect universe...do you think he would f#!k it all up by allowing Hell to be created?

Cindy... "out of the mouth of babes"

Thank you both so much


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

Here is just one site that has information about Admiral Byrd and the hollow earth

http://www.luisprada.com/Protected/agartha_in_the_...


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Thank you for posting the link Lady Guinevere.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

Here is another one and it says it has proof from Apollo 16:

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/hollowearth.html


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

very excellent


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

In al this research and other things that I have come to see and learn about on this eart, the Church is but a mere 10% of what really is out there. To some who cling to that church it seems that the whole of what they want it to *maybe* protect people from the *unknown*. I have another webiste that is a bit hard to beleive , but being as the Hollow Earth is a big possiblility that it is real these things also make sense to some degree. Sorry they moved it and I will have to find it later. It is an interview with the Reptilias of this world and they say they can change into ordinary looking people and that there have been many times they had made "experiments" on earth and it coincides with the number of extinctions that have occured on Earth. It was very interesting and they live in that Hollow Earth much like we live on the top of the earth.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

I can't wait to see it. Remember that in the early days people explained thing the best they could with what they knew. For instance: thunderbirds, Man on the moon, the passing of a loved one. These people didn't have the science and knowledge that you have today.

These ideas and religions inter-mingled as time went by... Greek gods, Roman gods, Native American spirits, and the like... whose to tell them that their beliefs were wrong? Their beliefs and gods were strong too.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

Are you in my brain? Seriously this is the stuff that I also have beentrying to get across. No this interviews was recently--in the early 2000's. The site that I had for it went all german and I don't know if they still have it listed there becasue I don't know german. I am doing a google search for it right now, but haven't been able to find it yet. When I do find it, I will post it for you!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Thanks for the link!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

I just added this hubpage to my hubpage as a link for the quoted text if they don't want to or can't get the DVD's that I have on my hub, The Long Winding Road. I put it in a couple of places! You are the best!


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Wow, Thank you!

I think it is you who are the best.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

You do know that this is supposed to happen as it has--your hub and finally some people reading it.  I have a following------they all read and follow where I go to see what things I am saying and posting agains't their beloved church.  I have shown the light and shared it with you and you with me and you will have even more of that light soon. 

Ts is a Great Thing and Day!


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Thank you for all the info, support, and links... You have enhance much of what I have written.


hot dorkage profile image

hot dorkage 7 years ago from Oregon, USA

You feel in the wings with this many comments? Hardly. This is a good hub. My own personal idea of God and the devil is that both of them reside inside of us human beings, and that the depictions are often kind of a shared archetype from a particular culture. That's not to say that they are frivolous or fluffy or anything of the sort. They are an important part of who we are as humans and it is also important how we deal with them.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Great points and a solid ideology to live by Hot Dorkage, Truth be known we will never be 100% sure until we expire. I believeas long as you are comfortable in your own beliefs you'll have passage into your eternal bliss.

Thank you for dropping in your thoughts and comments


quicksand profile image

quicksand 7 years ago

Initially I used to believe in a devil or "the" devil, and that was the result of indoctrination ... or better still religious education. Then there came a time when I used to think that all these stories about the existence of a devil was bull. However, after the emergence of a particular pop singer who "grew up" in the eighties, I started believing that the devil, or Satan does exist.

Help!


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

Well Quicksand, maybe the "great satan" is actually the Disney Music Marketing team. Which would explain the cult-like worship of followers of the Jonas Brothers, Miley, Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan, Justin Timberlake, and any other sugary-pop-idol that has rolled off the assembly line in the past decade. It's not "the Devil" we need to be afraid of its Mickey Mouse, who maybe the great conquerer of souls.

Thanks for the input, and your bravery to stand up and voice your opinions.


quicksand profile image

quicksand 7 years ago

Sir James, you got me wrong! I am a great music fan, especially of the sixties and seventies. I was referring to one particular musician whose habits, attitude, behaviour, lifestyle, and just about everything made me associate him "Diablo." I do not wish to name him lest I hurt his numerous fans.


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

I understand...


blondepoet profile image

blondepoet 7 years ago from australia

I am with you on that. No way could one be created.God we have our own hells in our lives, that's enough. (Hugs)


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

BlondePoet,.. point well taken.


pgrundy 7 years ago

This was a terrific read! Thank you for writing it. It's refreshing to see something that takes a more reasoned view of this sort of thing. I love all things weird and wonderful though. It's fascinating, the stories human beings create, and over time sometimes they do take on a life of their own. That's the weird thing--You know that old saying, "Speak of the Devil" and he'll likely appear. There's something to the idea that where we put our attention matters. Thanks again, great hub!


St.James profile image

St.James 7 years ago from Lurking Around Florida Author

PGrundy... Thank you for your thoughts, expressions, and opinions... but most of all your comments. It is so nice to see somoeone else who can sit back and read, view, and form a rational, calm thought on a subject that could really "shake the hornets nest." I very much appreciate your time.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Hi.  This was a fascinating read, and many of the thought-provoking questions here have been addressed in my hubs, one called The Identity of Lucifer (he is not the Devil); one called The Devil’s Purpose, and the last one applicable to explanation is called Is There Really a Hell? (the imprisonment of some of the fallen angels).

As far as New York being the end-time Babylon, the Great Whore prophesied, I think you’re definitely on the right track.  Many stand with you!  The end-time King of Babylon is indeed Lucifer, explained in my hub.  The end-time prophesies in the Bible state there will be the first beast (Satan) who gives power to the second beast, which is the antichrist (which so many believe to be the false Lucifer/Heylel “morning star”, an angel in the form of a man); the third beast, which is the false prophet forces people to worship the second beast and to receive his mark.  The video on the Catholic Church was scary!

Jesus is the true “morning star” and is called the Light of the world.  Satan is called the “god of this world” and because the Bible states that men loved “darkness” more than “light”, this is where the dark/light concept is nurtured.  Likewise, there are good angels (“angels of the Lord”) and fallen angels (called “spirits” or “devils” or “demons”).

Regarding men thinking their god or the God is a particular color, the Bible addresses that, too: "If a man says, 'I love God,' and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who doesn't love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?" (1 John 4:20).

Anyhow, I really enjoyed the videos.  Very very informative and startling!


bela uk 7 years ago

i ve got 666 on my arm , am not evil , nor worship any god or devil , like laungage it is a form of control , religions are the first gangsters with fear u got control , u would be a cult and put in jail if u started one up now , like land it s been here 4 billions of yrs so how can any human owen it ? capital hill never stopped bombing people 4 nearly 70 yr s , maddness , there is good and bad in every 1 simple , westener s armed saddam , binn larrden , tallerban , and loads more , glad am just simple ,


gusripper profile image

gusripper 7 years ago

You are writting very well about the other side,you seem to know a lot but why you are using the "ST" which i think means SAINT in hubs like this?


TheSablirab 6 years ago

What if God IS the devil in disguise? Which would explain, for those who believe in Christianity, why God "let's all of the bad things" happen. For every yen there is a yang.


FCEtier profile image

FCEtier 6 years ago from Cold Mountain

Very thought provoking. Well written and researched. Thank you for making me think -- and on a Sunday morning, too!


Dorothee-Gy profile image

Dorothee-Gy 6 years ago from near Frankfurt/M., Germany

Great article, lots of interesting information. Thanks a lot!


valeriebelew profile image

valeriebelew 6 years ago from Metro Atlanta, GA, USA

Very interestng article. I am aware that the forces of evil exist, but the concept that one personality is behind them I find difficult to accept. The forces of evil are manifested in the weaknesses and shortcomings of man. I certainly don't have all the answers, but the differences between good and evil are clear enough to me. The rest is unsure. (:v


Christopher Price profile image

Christopher Price 5 years ago from Vermont, USA

Quite the dissertation. I had a devil of a time getting through it and all the comments.

Everything you wrote rings true for this lapsed Catholic who was an altar boy for 10 years.

Of course much of the history and bastardization of the concept of a personification of evil was new to me, but the inconsistent nonsensical teachings of the Christian religions always set me to shaking my head in disbelief.

Shakespeare wrote: Nothing there is 'tis good or bad but thinking makes it so.

Ill go with that.

Well done. I am amazed to NOT find a litany of ways you have punched your one way ticket to hell here in the comments section.

You must have a guardian angel!

CP


mythbuster profile image

mythbuster 5 years ago from Utopia, Oz, You Decide

Wow St. James - very interesting and important questions you bring up... ie: is God an accomplice to the Devil's manipulations and damages toward mankind?

I am ALMOST done reading - just had to scroll down and drop a comment...


Attani profile image

Attani 5 years ago from Silicon Valley

Interesting article. Well thought out.


Jimmy Evola profile image

Jimmy Evola 5 years ago from Australia

This a great article and well written, thoroughly enjoyed it.

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