Is there scientific proof for the existence of the Biblical Lake of Fire?

Science Speaks Scripture? part 1

Science Speaks Scripture? part 2

Science Speaks Scripture? part 3

Hell May Be Closer Than You Think

This question is for non Christians only

If a burning Hell really does exist and unsaved people will go there forever when they die and Jesus Christ offered to save you from that would you accept it?

  • Yes
  • No
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This question is for true Christians only

If a burning Hell really does exist do you believe you are obligated to do ALL you can to warn non Christians of it?

  • Yes
  • No
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Comments 59 comments

Christian Universalism is the truth 2 years ago

Good post Dan. Those Hellfire scum will not get it for a long time. They are like the Pharisees who accused Jesus of fraternizing with Demons after healing a sick man. Its obvious that they blasphemed the Holy Spirit, because they cared more about their self righteous egotism that they missed Jesus message of Love. Thats why they will not be forgiven till the next age. Its so obvious that they are following in the ways of satan, but these foolish hellfire believers cannot even see how wicked their beliefs are, because they have no love. They ought be the most pittied of all.


Sahan 4 years ago

Jesus is not the only one to teach about hell. The Buddha's teachings about hell are much more descriptive. And also The Buddhas's teachings about why many human beings re-incarnate to hell after they die makes perfect sense not like 'you go to hell if you don't accept a particular person as your savior', seriously?

You're right about hell but you're absolutely wrong about the way you think you're going to be saved. No one can save you, only you yourself.


Sahan 4 years ago

Hell is indeed real. What's not real is God and what's not true is that you're saved from hell if you accept Jesus Christ as your savior.


unknown_quantity 4 years ago

i see all the comments here are posted years ago so i hesitated to post my belief...well i am a christian and i also believED in hell until i saw a passage in the book of Romans in the Bible,,b4 i tell da passage, i want to tell first my opinion,,

God is Love(1 John 4:8 King James Version (KJV) - He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.).

The Bible said he forgive sins, and once forgiven, HE forgets it,,

(Jeremiah 31:34 King James Version (KJV) - And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. )

so why in the World a God of Love will put sinners into eternal fire and let them suffer pain FOREVER,,

some says that sinners will be put in hell, but God said once a person died, his sins are forgiven, so why will God put sinners to hell if their sins are forgiven.here is the passage i read in romans:

(Romans 6:7 King James Version (KJV) - For he that is dead is freed from sin. )

this only means that hell is not literally described in the bible..


Ninja Ninja 4 years ago

Hey guys. Cool fact: God doesn't exist and the bible is a giant lie for societal control. Jesus was black, and Ronald Reagan is the devil. Stop wasting your lives.


olgakhumlo profile image

olgakhumlo 5 years ago from Mira Road Mumbai India

Dear Dan ,if there was no hell , then there was no reason for Jesus to die for the sins of mankind.Daniel prophesied it, it has fulfilled and the rest will surely fulfill.


Nick Batchelor 6 years ago

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if the participants in this discussion could be more Christ-like, Christian? Why not just focus on generating light not heat? Can't all involved in this interaction show the "mildness and deep respect" that we are supposed to, according to 1 Peter 3:15?

Could we start with what took place in the Garden of Eden in the beginning? What punishment would our first parents receive for their disobedience?

Has anyone considered this? Would anyone like to comment?

Sincerely,

Nick Batchelor


tim 6 years ago

He dan i am searching for truth on this topic and i think you are right there is heaven and judgement and no hell....in the original hebrew text of the old testament there is no refurral to hell plus the prophets of that time never warned us about it moses with his 600 laws never did.....is is very unscriptical hell......


Thinkaboutit77 profile image

Thinkaboutit77 7 years ago Author

Dan, you said the story of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable, you are mistaken my friend, it is NOT a parable it is a REAL story. It is clear that you didn't read the article in it's entirety, which still shows me that you are apprehensive about being proven wrong. When Jesus gave parables He never gave specific names and places but He does do that in Lazarus/Rich man story therefore since it doesn't qualify to be a parable, we must conclude it is real history. Secondly, I would be careful calling the terms "everlasting, eternal etc" unscriptural because those are the terms Jesus used, not the terms I use. I'm just quoting Him. And then you say "no that's not what it means"....that's just another way to escape the clear reading of Scripture. That's what the Roman Catholic Church does, no offense to Catholics. Friend you're calling God a liar, be careful about that. God says, "Let God be true and every man a liar" (Rom 3:4). Thirdly like Viral asked, why would Satan want us to believe Hell exist? On the contrary, if you look at the new Bible (per)versions out there, most of them if not all, tamper with the word "hell" and take it out. They REFUSE to translate the Greek word "hades" into the English word "hell", rather they transliterate it (just bring it over from Greek to English). Why are they so afraid to translate it? Also even atheists and pagans when they swear they don't say "get the hades out of here" or "what the hades". Duh! Obviously even the wicked KNOW there's a place called Hell but they use it as a swear word to take it lightly.Now why would Satan do that? Think about it Dan, it's because Satan wants to blind people to the truth that Hell does exist. Because if Hell doesn't exist, there's no need for a Saviour right? It is all tied in together. The truth is, God's law is eternal, God is eternal and when you sin against a holy eternal God, you have to suffer an eternal punishment it's that simple. That is why Jesus (the eternal Son of God) was the only One qualified to redeem mankind because He as God is eternal so He could pay the sin debt we owe and He as a man can properly represent mankind. Thirdly, you must've forget that man is body, soul and spirit and those verses you gave talked about the death of the body. By the way, death just means SEPARATION it doesn't mean ceasing to exist. At physical death the body is separated from the soul and spirit and at the Second Death (the Judgment of Rev 20:14) man's soul and spirit is FOREVER separated from God in the Lake of Fire. Dan let the Bible be your guide and not your feelings and this won't be as difficult to understand.


Dan 7 years ago

Actually, it's speaking to the churches of babylon that you guys attend. But it's hard for blind people to see this.


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Make Money 7 years ago from Ontario

Dan the 3rd last verse of the last chapter of the last book of the Holy Bible says this,

"19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book."http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73022.htm

Dan this verse is speaking directly to anyone that takes hell or anything else out of the Holy Book.  Dan this verse is speaking directly to you and Ray.

May God help you.

Mike


Dan 8 years ago

Excuse me!! But there are many bibles that have dropped the word hell because it shouldn't be there. Now I need for the bible to say such a place does not exist? The bible doesn't say that the tooth ferry and Santa Clause don't exist, either. I already said this very thing (typed) to Viral. The proof that hell doesn't exist is in the several scriptures that speak of the salvation of all, and the general flow of scripture. From Genesis on, there are almost innumerable examples of a progression from darkness to light. The churches of today are definitely experiencing the darkness. Stop using bad English translations to guide your spiritual understanding. There are several other church doctrines that are also incorrect. But I won't concern you with those right now.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

What Bible do you read that says there is no hell? Not the KJV. Hell is mentioned more in the Bible than Heaven is. Don't take my word for it, read it yourself. Then you will have proof.

And once again: Christian-hell = oxymoron

you said:

Ha!! I love that graphic of the center of the earth. So, that's where hell is? Why, because scientists know that it is hot there?

Why do you say there is no hell? Because you read it on the internet? You certainly didn't read it in the Bible. I wish I could mail you a real Bible.


Dan 8 years ago

Just try one thing, Viral. Stop praying that people see that your christian hell is real. Stop praying that god not send people there. I'm sure you have compassion for those whom you believe are destined for hell. But this compassion is clouded in deception. For once, ask God for the real truth regarding these matters. Only God can lead you to the truth. Do it privately. Don't tell your church buddies that you are asking God for the truth. Just do it. Deception is a terrible thing, and I would hope that some can be freed from it.

Oh, I'm sorry you lost your licence. I guess now, when you ride the bus, you get to see alot of different people. Think about what it would be like if 3/4 of them went to the christian hell because they didn't know what to believe (those are conservative numbers. I've heard most christians believe that about 9/10 of people will go to hell). Or if your 16 year old has to drive you around, take time to discuss with him/her how stupid these church doctrines would be if you didn't feel that you had to believe them. I mean, come on. Eternity in hell for not knowing what to believe? Please!! But what you fail to understand is, the hell doctrine is false for two reasons: First, it is a vile and evil belief. And second, it is totally unscriptural. Ask God to show you the truth.


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

 Dan;

Yeah, boy, you are sure a wonderful fella, Dan. I am sure ole Ray is mitey proud of his work on you. How is the kool aid, Dan? What is he servin ya? Cherry is his flavor of the month, I think.

Your compassion is overwhelming with the wonderful words of ecouragement to the body, "I will say that the worldly "christian" church is absolutelly blind to the meanings of scriptures." Well, that will warm the hearts of Christian churches everywhere. Yes sirree, Dan, it is sure good that you got onto them. Yep, they are just absolutely blind. Why people are stumbling into each other in every Christian church. It really is a mess, Dan. So many blind people all in one place all over the place. I don't blame you for being so mad all the time, Dan. Car wrecks galore when all those blind people venture out on Sunday mornings. When they raid the buffet after church, they make a huge mess at Denny's. I can see your frustration, Dan.

That was not enough bad news for those Christians, though, huh Dan? You follow up that left jab with a right hook, "Christian has become a worldly title for those who attend the thousand or so denominations and claim to worship Christ (or christ, as they really worship)."

We won't have any more of those worldly titles, like Christian, huh, Dan? No, that is not what Dan and Ray have in mind for you. They have rewritten all the scriptures and the titles that follow them. Well, Dan, I aked a few of those Christian folks, and they said that is just fine with them because they are not following you and Ray. It is hard to follow when you are blind anyway, huh? So, you can call your self Ray or you can call you Jay, they don't care, if you remember that big joke. Hey that is what they said.

This is right out of the book of Dan. Wow, that book of Dan has a lot of really strange stuff in it. It sounds like the book of Satan to me. "So, again, your feable attempt to twist what I said has been thrown right back into your visionless face."

Well, my visionless face is laughing so hard it is about to start hurting, Dan. I just wish you knew how funny you are, and I guess that is the point of the books of Dan and Ray. Somehow, I think this is not real enjoyable for you, though. However, my visionless face just can't tell much, visionless face that it is. Hey thanks for clearing that up for me, Dan, about that visionless face of mine, you know?

Here is another Dan logic example for all of those who wonder how to employ logic from the books of Ray and Dan, "Keep calling me stupid, Viral."

Wow, Dan, you are just so smart that you can claim that I said what I never said, huh? I say"Way to go, Mike, finally we got this stupid mess cleared up." and you change that to "Keep calling me stupid, Viral." I guess you are calling yourself a mess, too, Dan, but that is not necessary, really. Ease up on yourself, OK, after all no one else has lowered themselves to calling anyone names.

Whoops, though, you do not seem to have risen to that level of human decency, yet, though Dan. You say, "Because I think that you are a spiritual moron." Well, now Dan my boy, I sure don't know what I am to do now, spiritual moron that I am. Maybe I can get in there with all those blind Christians and see how that goes. Dan, thanks for letting me know that I am a spiritual moron. That is sure important to know so that I do not think I might not be a spiritual moron. You and Ray sure are smart, though,Dan, right? Maybe you might want to consider all that stuff in the Bible, too. No, that is right, you guys only spit out all the book of Dan and the book of Ray. So, those books call people blind - all of them, those are those Christian folks. Spiritual moron sure is a good scripture from the book of Dan, too.

Have another glass of that cherry kool aid of Ray's, Dan. It gives you a bit funny view of things if you have too much, but a couple galsses just make you think everyone is blind and some are spiritual moron material.

"You aint even at the starting line, Viral."

Hey I am not at the starting line, for sure. I am staying off the streets even. There are a bunch of blind people out there right now driving around. I used to do that, but my insurance got cancelled. No way, Dan, not me.


Dan 8 years ago

Hey Viral, I agree with one more thing you've said. You said "I fell much better now".


Dan 8 years ago

So does freewill, Allshook. (also, loving God burning people eternally, a perfectly created cherub deciding to be the devil, prosperity gospel preachers teaching people to suffer for christ. . .) Actually, most of the major doctrines of the worldly churches can be packaged as one giant "oxymoron".

Boy, you look alot better now. You must have been under a lot of stress earlier. When I first saw your picture, I thought, my god it's true, people do look like their dogs. But man, what an improvement.


Dan 8 years ago

Nice try, Viral.

I consider it the christian hell because the word hell in the KJ does not mean what the "christian" church has decided that it means (in all 4 Hebrew and Greek wordings). Now, I realize that the term Christian is used twice in the scriptures, so I won't call the word (christian) non scriptural. I will say that the worldly "christian" church is absolutelly blind to the meanings of scriptures. If somebody asks whether I consider my-self a christian, I tell them that I daily seek the spirit of Christ. Christian has become a worldly title for those who attend the thousand or so denominations and claim to worship Christ (or christ, as they really worship). So, again, your feable attempt to twist what I said has been thrown right back into your visionless face.

Keep calling me stupid, Viral. Because I think that you are a spiritual moron (not your fault, though). By the way, do an internet search on christian universalism. There are many. I read up on a few, but I require more spiritual understanding from someone than the milk of universal salvation. The meat of the word is much more involved. You aint even at the starting line, Viral.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

Christian-hell = oxymoron


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

Dan;

Well, we are proud of you. Yessiree, man, you finally woke up. It is true that there is no christian hell, just a non Christian hell. You know there for a minute I was starting to wonder if you would finally give us the punch line. Well, my faith in the lowest level of human intelligence is finally restored.

You know I couldn't believe that anyone could be so stupid as to disagree with everyone but the gospel of Ray. Well, I fell much better now. I am glad that this all finally became clear, Dan.

Way to go, Mike, finally we got this stupid mess cleared up. Hey Dan, go tell this Ray guy that this all finally cam together for ya, will ya? Thanks, and it was not all that much fun, but maybe now you can join on some with us, OK?


Dan 8 years ago

Just a tithing joke, Mike.

No, the christian hell does not exist.


Make  Money profile image

Make Money 8 years ago from Ontario

I don't work for a church Dan.  My HubPages name has nothing to do with my faith.

You can call me Mike. :)


Dan 8 years ago

Make Money,

To choose that name, I suspect that you work for the worldly churches.


Make  Money profile image

Make Money 8 years ago from Ontario

Thinkaboutit77 the link you posted about the Attack on the Bible came up file not found so I'll post it here again for you.

 http://www.av1611.org/attack.html

For those that find themselves with a new corrupted version of the Bible here's a good online copy of the King James Bible

http://etext.virginia.edu/kjv.browse.html

And here's a good online copy of the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible http://www.drbo.org/

Mike


Make  Money profile image

Make Money 8 years ago from Ontario

Hell does exist.

But thanks to our Saviour Jesus Christ there is forgivness for our sins.

A good start to receive forgivness for your sins is to say this.

Act of Contrition

Oh my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee.  And I detest all my sins because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of hell, but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, Who art all good and deserving of all my love.  I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to confess my sins, to do penance, and to amend my life.

Amen

 

This hub is needed.

Thanks Thinkaboutit77

Mike


Dan 8 years ago

The natural man is you. The church does not understand spiritual things. That's what I've been trying to tell you. It's you that thinks the RML parable is a literal story. In fact, I doubt that these other blind people here would agree that when one dies, they immediatelly enter into heaven or hell. You are in no position to argue with the spiritual meat that I have provided you. Stop trying to.


Thinkaboutit77 profile image

Thinkaboutit77 8 years ago Author

Bible just means "book" and God did write The Book so that is just a play on words.

Your eschatology is wrong Dan. You see like I said before, death just means separation. Unsaved man is temporarily separated from God but if he dies in this state he will suffer the second death (final and permeneant separation) from a holy sin hating God in the Lake of Fire where they will be tormented with the Devil day and night as Revelation states. Remember Jesus said this horrible judgment was ORIGINALLY only for the devil and his angels (Matt 25:41 I believe) but since mankind has followed the "god of this world" they will follow him to this judgment.

Jesus said in 10:27-28 "My sheep hear my voice, they know me and they follow me..." so if those that know (trust, believe in) Christ follow Christ, then we can conclude that they will go where Christ is. But those that don't follow Christ, follow Satan and will go where he is going. Dan it's that simple. Why are you making this more complicated than it has to be?

You see the Bible says that the the "natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for there are spiritually discerned (understood)". The unsaved man can not understand the simple things in the Word of God because he doesn't have the holy Spirit in him enlightening him and guiding him.

And it seems to me that those that can not understand or deny the Biblical doctrine of hell do so because they are not saved.

Most of the people that deny hell are liberals and the Jehovah's False Witnesses, but everyone else that believes in Christ and believes that Bible is the Word of God has no difficulty reading the Bible's clear teaching on a literal hell for the devil and the unsaved.

Again, Dan let the Word of God and the Holy Spirit of God be your guide and you will see the truth and the truth will make you free.


Dan 8 years ago

You are so blind. That is a parable. First of all, Satan dines on the dust of the earth, just as God said he would in Genesis. The dust is you and me. That is a clear example of understanding spiritual words. Do you really think that Satan is a literal serpent? How weak, your understanding is. These are spiritual words, and the parable broken down above, is full of spiritual symbolism. The idea that the parable is symbolic of the gentiles and jewish people should be common knowledge. There are several people (including theologians) who know that this parable is symbolic of the gentiles and Jewish people.

Again, christians see the word hell and they jump on it, as if those were Christ's actual words. Only a blind man thinks that translations of men are the actual inpired word of God. Hades is the Greek equivalent of Sheol. Sheol is the unseen realm of the dead, which is likened to sleep. It is used in that parable to symbolize how the Jewish people have fallen to the lowest depths possible. Death would be the lowest point for the human spirit. But death is used figuratively to show how low the Hebrews have fallen from God's grace.

What's obvious Viral, is you like to twist the things that I say. For instance: you claim that I said that poor people don't deserve salvation. I did not say that. I said that "being" poor does not in itself qualify somebody for salvation. You imply that I believe that rich people don't deserve destruction. Wrong again, churchian. I said that being rich does not "in iteself", make one deserving of destruction (or hell, in the blasphemist church teaching). I can see why you don't understand the scriptures. You don't pay attention to the words.

FYI, the "bible" is not the infallable word of God. The scriptures are the infallable word of God. Bibles are fallable translations of the word of God.

You still don't know what you are talking about, Viral.


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

Dan;

I find it revealing that you are so familiar with satan that you can speak for him, far beyond even the bible. I never saw the bible claim that  “Satan couldn't give a whup about whether he has company in the unscriptural christian hell.” While everything is not scriptural, we have already shown that this is completely illogical, too.

Dan, you just rewrite the Bible to Ray’s version. Let me explain with a few examples from your wrtiting, just as I did in my previous post. I can continue with this all through all your writing.

You write, “Hummm, still don’t see why he deserves the Christian hell.” Dan, the Bible is your commands, not something for you to rewrite, question and accuse as wrong. The man deserved hell because the gospel says it. You act like you know whether he deserved it or not. The Bible is infallible, not us.

You write, “Named Lazarus. . . This common name actually meant helpless.. . .who had been cast at his portal (gate) . . .having sores. . . Not a virtue deserving of heaven.. . . yearning to be satisfied from the scraps (not crumbs) which are falling from the rich man’s table. Godly men don’t beg for food. (Psa. 37:25) . . .Yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor His seed begging bread.”

What is repulsive to me is that you have the arrogance and judgement to say a man with sores is not deserving of heaven. That goes far beyond prejudice all the way to judgement. You say that you know who deserves heaven and not. Jesus intervenes for God to decide. Never presume that you can.

Dan, you show that Lazarus wanted even scraps, but you say that Godly men do not beg. It never says he did beg.

You are forced to carry on this charade throughout your epistle, most likely copied from the word according to Ray and opposed to the word of God. It is all  the same character of what I just assessed.


Dan 8 years ago

Viral, you curse every time you speak of this damnable doctrine of hell. You curse the very God that you "think" you worship. Don't be surprised if all of this is shown to you at a later time. You don't have a spiritual leg to stand on. Give it up!!


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

Dan:

Why do you get so mad that I just post what was already said?. It is right there, you know.

You say, "There's nothing that I can say to help you see the folly of your ridiculous posts. Give it up!! You've been served!!" I get that for posting the actual post from our initial thread. I am "served" now by the shadowboxer.

Keep cussing and insulting. That is the obvious work of...


Dan 8 years ago

So, is it a parable or a literal story? Don't answer until you've read the entire thing thoroughly. There is not a literal phrase in that entire story. Get real!!!


Dan 8 years ago

This should do it:

The Lord Says

Heb. 8:8-10-. . . I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and the house of Judah. . . For this is the covenant that I will make (future tense) with the house of Irael after those days (of blindness and unregenerate hearts crying out from the symbolic gates of hades), saith the Lord; I will put my Laws into their minds, and write them in their hearts; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.

Rom 11:26-And thus all Israel shall be saved. . . (but if the rich man represents Israel then he must not be in some pagan hell).

Remember-II Kg. 19:17-. . . Judah kept not the commandment of the Lord. . .

When teaching this parable literally, the rich man hardly deserves any kind of torment. Not until we identify him as the entire Jewish race (most anyway) do we understand God’s judgments against him (them). He referred to them as adulterous, evil, transgressors, faithless, perverse, hypocrites, murderers, blind guides, fools, generation of snakes. But how can Christ base a parable on one crying out from hades (the unseen) well, he did it as Jehovah.

Gen. 4:10-. . .the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Less than forty years after Christ spoke this parable, God took away the Temple and the Ark of the Covenant. For several centuries the Jews had wandered throughout the world not having a home until 1948. They still face horrific persecution.

Yet he said to him, If Moses and the prophets they are not hearing, neither will they be persuaded if someone should be rising from among the dead. Well how would Abraham know? Actually, it is Christ speaking as this is prophetic. It’s ironic that the only person resurrected by Christ whose name we know, was a man by the name of Lazarus. After this many Jews believed in Him. However, others reported this miracle back to the Pharisees who sought to kill Him. So Lazarus rising from the dead did not persuade the Jewish religious leaders. This parable is speaking about the resurrection of Christ though and not that of Lazarus.

Rom. 9:25-I shall be calling those who are not My people, My people.

But why don’t the Jewish people get it.

Rom. 11:7

What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused. . .

Rom. 11:8

God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day. (When will that be?)

Rom. 11:15

For if their (the Jews) casting away is the conciliation of the world, what will the taking back be if not life from among the dead?

Rom. 11:26

. . . that callousness (by God), in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering. And thus all Israel shall be saved. . .(Us too!!!)

For a thorough analysis of The Lazarus and the Rich Man parable, go to bibletruths.com.


Dan 8 years ago

OK, continuing:

Gen. 49:10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, now a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shilo come. David as well as our Lord was of the line of Judah.

“God has always elevated Judah above the other Tribes.”

Ray makes a point that Judah, while the third born to Israel, is listed first by God when listing the tribes of Israel in Revelations.

. . .and cambric (fine linen). . .

this is symbolic of the clothing the priest wore and was of the interior decorations of the Tabernacle itself. (Ex. 26:1) Levites and the priests were loyal to Judah through their long history. Judah had both the Scepter and the Priesthood.

Ezra 1:3

Then rose up the chief of the fathers of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites. . . God had raised, to go up to build the house of the Lord which is in Jerusalem.

Father Abraham “. . .Child, be reminded. . .Abraham was Judah’s Great Grandfather.

They have Moses and the Prophets. . .

“The Kingdom of Judah did have “Moses and the Prophets.” They were the protectors and scribes of those very documents till the time of our Lord’s ministry, when Jesus said that they sit in Moses’ seat. Judah was the very depository for The Law (Moses), The Prophets, and the Writings. Remember the Oracles were given to the Jews (Rom. 3:1-2)

I have five brothers. . .

Problem!! Judah had 11 brothers. But through his mother, Leah, he had. . .

ReubenSimeonLeviIssacharZebulunYep, that’s five brothers. So who is this Lazarus?

Was in Abraham’s bosom showing a very close emotional relationship.

Jon 1:18-“Christ likens Himself as being in the bosom of His Father.

Jon 13:23-John leaned back into Jesus’ bosom.

“Christ had told the Jews, they didn’t do the works of faith that their Father Abraham did. So Judah is not in the bosom of Abraham as Lazarus is.

Gen. 15:2-3

Behold, to me (Abram) thou hast given no seed; and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. “Abram told God that since he had no son, his chief steward, Eliezer, would be his heir and inherit all that was his.”

“Eliezer was so faithful a steward to Abraham that he was planning to give him all, including the promised land.” But then Abraham had a son Isaac leaving Eliezer out.

Eliezer would just be a Gentile from Damascus as well as all of his generations. They would be known as dogs. Despite this, he remained faithful to Abraham, even finding a wife for Isaac.

“Eliezer would receive non of the spiritual promises or possessions from God.” “As a Gentile, all he can ever hope for are the spiritual “crumbs” that fall from the Rich man’s spiritual table.

Faith of The Gentiles

Mk. 6:27-29

Now the woman was a Greek, a native of Syro-Phoenicia (A Gentile), and she asked Him that He should be casting the demon out of her daughter. Yet Jesus said to her, ‘Let first the children (The Jews) be satisfied, for it is not ideal to take the children’s bread and cast it to the dogs.’ Yet she answered and is saying to Him, “Yes, Lord, For the dogs also, underneath the table, are eating the scraps from the little children.’ And He said to her, ‘Because of this saying, go. The demon has come out of your daughter. (“This woman was not asking for scraps of food but a small portion of Christ’s spiritual blessing. Just as Lazarus does not represent a street beggar but something much greater than one single beggar in the street.)

When Christ entered Capernaum a centurion (a Roman, a Gentile) asked Christ to heal his boy. Christ said He would come. The Centurion said He need only to “say the word” and he would trust Christ for the healing!

Mat. 8:5-10

When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to them that followed, ‘Verily I say unto you I have not found so great faith no, not in Israel.

Mat. 8:11-12

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and the west (Gentiles), and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the Kingdom of Heaven, but the children of the kingdom (Judah, the Jews) shall be cast into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Of course not forever, and gnashing of teeth is figurative for how the Jews will react to losing out on the promises of God.) (What’s that scripture that says “The last will be first and the first will be last”? Well it doesn’t say the last will go to heaven and the first will go to hell.) Lazarus Is Eliezer!!The Greek “Lazarus” is from Lazaros (Helpless).But in Hebrew “Lazarus” is Elazar or Eliezer from el (God) and azar (Help).

The God of Help is God.

“We gentiles could now look to Eliezer as a father of rare faith as the Jews could look to father Abraham.”

Lazarus (Eliezer) was . . . cast at his (Rich man’s) gate (portal). . .

Gentiles no longer have to stand outside the gate. They have direct access to God. We now find the Gentiles in the bosom of Abraham, and the Jews engulfed in the flame of Anti-Semitism for the past 2000 years.

. . . having ulcers . . .Lazarus represents spiritually poor Gentiles, but is healed in Abraham’s bossom

. . . Father Abraham, be merciful to me, and send Lazarus that he should be dipping the tip of his finger in water. . . How appropriate.

Mat 23:4-For they (Judah) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

1 Kg. 12:7:11-. . . and spake unto Rehoboam (King of Judah), saying, . . . make thou the grievous service of thy father, and his heavy yoke which he put upon us, lighter, and we will serve thee. But he forsook the counsel of the old men. . . My little finger shall be thicker than my father’s loins . . . my father hath chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions.

“Now Judah begs the assistance of a finger from a poor man (a poor Gentile). It was custom for pious Jews to cut a section of their garment off if it were so much as touched by the finger of a Gentile.

. . and cooling my tongue. . . .

his desperation would allow a gentile to touch his tongue?

“This man (rich man) is frightened. His tongue is swelling as is typical when people are scared.” (David said let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth. . .it I forget to remember Jerusalem.”

Isa. 3:8-For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen; because their tongue and their doings are against the Lord. . .

Lazarus can’t come over to the Rich man even if he wanted to, because of this “chasm.”

And in all this, between us and you a great chasm (gulf) has been established.

Remember, After 40 years of wandering the desert, God’s people needed to cross the “Jordan River Valley” (runs through a great chasm or gulf) to reach the promised land. (Remember that crossing the red sea as well as the Jordan were the ways to a symbolic salvation, however, they never received the water baptisms to do so).

There is a realm called hades (the unseen) which is an enemy of man and has gates, for which God has keys.

“And I have the keys to hades (not hell) and of death. (But is there hope?)

The Lord Says

Heb. 8:8-10-. . . I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and the house of Judah. . . For this is the covenant that I will make (future tense) with the house of Irael after those days (of bli


Dan 8 years ago

Oh come on, you mean I have to look at that silly figure that looks like a hard boiled egg spit in half and I can't have my last post in it's etirety, shown? It all but proves that the Rich Man and Lazarus is in fact a parable. It was cut off when it was just getting good. Not that you guys would ever read the whole thing. Anyway, I'll continue it my-self.


Dan 8 years ago

Viral, just stop answering. You don't really read a single thing that I write. You accuse me of changing my mind. This is only because you are completely blind as to everything that I have written. Just stop!! Your beliefs are a curse of Satan at this time. There's nothing that I can say to help you see the folly of your ridiculous posts. Give it up!! You've been served!!

As far as Satan is concerned? He is carnal and dines on man. That's what he does. He deceives, and doing this brings him pleasure. We experience different types of pleasure that Satan has no use for. Satan couldn't give a whup about whether he has company in the unscriptural christian hell. He was created to dine on the carnal flesh of man.

Not a parable, huh thinkaboutnothing?

Oh boy, I didn't think that it would come to this but. . . . . . .man.

The Parable of Lazarus and The Rich Man:

This parable has been used countless times by theologians to prove that the unrighteous will suffer an eternity in literal fire, with regenerating nervous systems in order to experience the full load of excruciating burning pain. The first time I read this parable I was rather confused. Taking these things literally would violate hundreds of plain scripture. While confused, I was even told by a churchian about this rich man being in such pain that he begged for a drop of water on his tongue. Well, enough of that spiritually dead silliness. Ray Smith of bibletruths.com has opened my eyes to the true nature of this parable of Christ, and I have learned that the truth is far greater than what is taught in the church (which is morbidly grotesque). I have come to the conclusion that while the learned Pharisees of Christ’s day were far from understanding Christ’s parables, they did know their scriptures and probably knew exactly who Christ was talking about here. They knew who the rich man was and they knew who Lazarus was. And they were pissed!! But did they think that this man was in some pagan hell? Absolutely not. In fact, any intelligent person today should not make such an assumption. But I know that the spirit of Christ has little to nothing to do with worldly intellect. As Ray shows, there is nothing in a literal reading of this parable that would suggest that the rich man deserves punishment or that Lazarus deserves eternal bliss. We shall see what the symbols represent.

Now a certain man was rich. ..

Being rich is not a sin.

. . . he dressed in purple and fine linen

These colors identify much of the symbolism in this parable.

. . .daily making merry splendidly. . .

Hummm, still don’t see why he deserves the Christian hell. Oh yea, it’s symbolism.

Now there was a certain poor man. . .

Not recognized as a virtue of itself.

Named Lazarus. . .

This common name actually meant helpless.

. . .who had been cast at his portal (gate) . . .having sores. . .

Not a virtue deserving of heaven.

. . . yearning to be satisfied from the scraps (not crumbs) which are falling from the rich man’s table.

Godly men don’t beg for food. (Psa. 37:25) . . .Yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor His seed begging bread.

But the curs also, coming, licked his ulcers.

Dogs represent something here.

Now the poor man came to die and he is carried away by messengers into Abraham’s bosom.

Abraham’s bosom does not represent heaven.

Now the rich man also died, and was entombed . And in the unseen (hades), lifting up his eyes. . .

He’s dead. There is no consciousness in death. It must be figurative.

. . .being in torments (basanos). ..

While this can mean literal pains, it obviously is from being tested and proved through chastisement.

. . . he is seeing Abraham from afar. . .

How? I thought he was engulfed in flames.

And shouting said. . .

Psalm 31:17-let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave (sheol or hades, well, I guess this must be figurative)

. . . send Lazarus that he should be dipping the tip of his finger in water and cooling my tongue. ..

I would be more concerned about my burning ass, and a drop of water would do nothing.

I am tormented in this flame.

Singular flame and not flames. The Greek word translated “tormented” in verses 24 and 25 is adunao and it means to be sorrowful or pained emotionally. Adunao is used only two other times in all scripture and both times means emotional sorrow or pain. Notice:

Luke 2:48

. . . and His mother said unto Him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? Behold, Thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing (adunao).

Acts 20:38

Sorrowing (adunao) most of all for the words which he spoke, that they should see his face no more. And they accompanied him into the ship.

Now Abraham said, Child, be reminded that you got your good thing in your life, and Lazarus likewise evil things.

Pretty soft words to a man condemned to eternal hell. Are his sins mentioned?

Yet now here he is being consoled, yet you are in pain (adunao-sorrow)

Consoled in Greek is used in conjunction with someone who is in distress. There is no need to be consoled in the Kingdom of God (I refuse to say heaven).

And in all this, between us and you a great chasm has been established, so that those wanting to cross hence to you may not be able, nor yet those thence may be ferrying (diabaino) to us.

How can a chasm or gulf keep a spiritual body? Who would want to cross a gulf into hell anyway? Also, ferrying comes from the word diaperao or through-other-side, and is used of passage over water. So to escape the burning, he should just jump into the water.

Yet Abraham is saying to him, They have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them!

If the rich man recognized Abraham then he couldn’t hear Moses. He wasn’t around yet.

No, father Abraham, but if someone should be going to them from the dead, they will be repenting.

Why didn’t the rich man say to send one from heaven to warn them?

The parable:Who was a rich man?Who was a poor man named Lazarus? The only man who scripturally fits all the descriptions of the rich man is Judah. But all Israel under the headship of Judah.

Chron. 17:5

Therefore the Lord established the kingdom in his hand and all Judah brought to Jehoshaphat presents; and he had riches and honour in abundance.

Ver. 12

. . . and he built in Judah castles, and cities of store.

II Ch 32:27-29

Hezekiah (King of Judah):

. . . had exceeding much riches and honour; and he made himself treasures for silver, and for gold, and for precious stones. . . all manner of pleasant jewels; storehouses also for the increase of corn, and wine, and oilo, and stalls for all manner of beasts. . . he provided him cities, possessions of flocks and herds in abundance; for God had given him substance very much.But what else did Judah possess?

Rom. 3:1-2

What, then is the prerogative (excess) of the Jew, or what the benefit of circumcision? Much in every manner. . . For first, indeed, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God.

John 4:22

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

And what was the rich man wearing right before he went to hell? Ha Ha . . . and he dressed in purple. . .

A color used in garments of a bluish red, by a dye obtained from a shellfish, purpura. It denotes rank of royalty (Greek-English Concor.)

Judah was to carry the royal line in Israel.

Gen. 49:10 The scepter shall not depart from Judah, now a lawgiver from be


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

Dan;

To refresh your memory, here is what I said to you when last we argued,

I wrote to you, Quote, Again, you said "This is only the beginning to the proof of the salvation of all". Now, you say "Comparing scriptures shows without doubt, that the salvation of all is scriptural." That is totally false, and the Bible says it over and over again. Again, you are out on that limb all by yourself without a single Christian leader or scholar with you. End quote.

So, if you are revoking those comments that all are saved, I am glad. It is good to have that issue behind you. At least, I think that is what you mean in between your insults against Billy Graham, Rick Warren, Bill Hybels and even me. At least I am glad to be in their company, and not Ray:

You now say,"Where have I ever said that those who die not knowing God are immediatelly saved at the ressurection. I have never even hinted at that."


Dan 8 years ago

Viral,

Again, you make false assumptions about many things.

1. You think that large numbers of preachers teaching the same garbage proves that it is true.

2. You think that the scripture I quoted contradicts what I've been saying all along.

3. You feel that I hate you.

4. You think Satan is motivated by some ridiculous notion that he will have company in your damn hell by getting them to go there.

Let me first remind you of why I wrote this last post. It was to discredit that fool who claims that people on his opperating table had gone to hell and then awakened. Obviously, you haven't tried to correct the blog master here, so you either believe it, or else you don't care about this non scripture that you can actually see. Now, I wouldn't ever bother anyone who thinks that their grandma is in heaven or something at this time. But when someone uses unscriptural testimony to try to prove the existense of the most unGodly fable ever, that's when I pull out the scriptures. Now, as far as Dan 12:2 is concerned:

Where have I ever said that those who die not knowing God are immediatelly saved at the ressurection. I have never even hinted at that. The scriptures speak of the elect (the few) receiving the promises first (first fruits). The many (that's everyone else) goes through judgment. I think we can agree that the scriptures speak of various levels of severity in judgment. A non believer from Africa who took care of his family and did the best he could will not be judged like. . . . Hitler, for example. But no, I never said that all are immediatelly saved at the ressurection, regardless of how you, Viral, attempt to twist my words in order to discredit me.

What did I say concerning the judgment of the lost. Well, I said that the words forever, eternity, eternal, forever and ever, forever x 2, and forever to the power of forever, are absolutelly unscriptural terms. The word used in that scripture I quoted, that you feel destroys universal salvation, uses the Hebrew word olam. Olam is the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek aion or aionios. It's for a period of time. I have already proven this in another one of these hubs. Those ancient words could not have ever meant forever. And this judgment is not in your stupid, fabled hell. It's the symbolic Lake of Fire. I've repeated my-self over and over and you are so blind, that you refuse to see it. Have a nice hell believing life. Hope you learn the truth, sooner that later.

Now, for that


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

Dan;

You have staunchly contended to first me, then SirDent, now to Thinkaboutit77 that hell does not exist and all are saved. You stand against such people as Billy Graham, Rick Warren and Bill Hybels who minister to millions who all contend there absolutely is a hell and all who do not follow strict Biblicval guidelines are condemned to hell according to the Bible. I listed numerous other rationale for you.

As with every post you have ever made to all three of us, I can discredit it all. Here is the easiest on that you just posted. "Dan 12: 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting (olam) life, and some to shame and everlasting (olam) contempt." Dan, you make OUR point here. Those who sleep will awake. Some will awake to shame. That is hell. Some will awake to everlasting life. Wow, Dan, you posted that, not me. It refutes that there is no hell, and it refutes your point that all are saved. If you can't see it, then just move on with your life, Dan. We cannot help you here. You need help somewhere, and I do not say that to be arrogant. I want you to get it straight because I like you. I think you hate me, but satan hates, Dan, remember that.

You say, "Satan lies and deceives. I believe that occasionally, people see things that don’t exist because they are blind and Satan uses their blindness to fulfill his carnal lust, by dining on man."

Why would satan lie to us to deceive us to think that hell DOES exist. That is what you are contending here. Dan, maybe you are so determined to prove yourself right to everybody that you are blind. Think about it, Dan, satan would do the exact opposite. He would say there is NO hell and everyone IS saved. That deception would force people to make the wrong choices and join him in hell. If there is no hell, why would he want us to believe that there is? Satan is here to make us sin and rebel, and if anything, hell makes us not sin and rebel. So, if you take away sin, people will go wild and sin away, rebelling freely with no consequences. Satan would not deceive us to think there is a hell, but he would deceive us to think there is no hell. Surely you can see that, can't you?

That is all we are all saying to you. Dan, I will not argue with you anymore. I do not want to win an argument with you. I just want you to think this through, and I know if you can calm down and stop the ego, you will see it. Go back and reread our thread together if you want to see my points.

http://hubpages.com/misc/Is-Hell-Evil


Dan 8 years ago

Not afraid? I wouldn’t give that charlatan a thought if you didn’t use him to try and prove church heresy. Let’s first consider his reason for coming out with such a story. He wrote a book!! That’s right. When there’s money and fame involved, a person’s credibility goes right down the toilet. Personally, I believe this man is still an atheist. He probably feels that he has nothing to lose and fortune to gain, by coming out with such swill. I understand that TBN has commissioned his story, as well. But let’s just consider one more possibility. Satan lies and deceives. I believe that occasionally, people see things that don’t exist because they are blind and Satan uses their blindness to fulfill his carnal lust, by dining on man. This may include those who were supposedly screaming in this man’s presence, as well as this deluded atheist. Are you going to comment on the numerous other occasions when people give unscriptural testimonies of seeing ghosts, dead family members and all near death experiences? How about the numerous alien ship sightings and abductions? No, you choose testimonies of people with horrific visions of some fabled hell because you are deceived into believing such nonsense. But you asked for a rebuttal of the article, so I will try and point out some of the glaring problems with it.

At the start, there are references made to the Lazarus parable. Do you know what a parable is? It’s a fictitious story with deep symbolism to teach a lesson. All of the words in this parable are symbols. Flame is not actual fire, the torment is not physical, but mental pain, and hades (unseen) is used to figuratively describe the future state (although temporary) of the Jewish people. Even the Rich man and Lazarus are symbols of two societies of men. Furnace of Fire is also figurative. It’s not real fire and the scriptures have many examples of where the Jewish people wail and gnash their teeth. Never, is it because they are burning in fire. It comes from anger, distress and is never used to describe their reaction to physical pain. The Lake of Fire is not the Christian hell. Sulfur is symbolic for the purification of what is unclean or sinful. Sulfur has been used as a cleanser for religious ceremonies and has been used as medicine, even as recently as WWII. Christ descended into hades (unseen, realm of the dead. Hades is used here figuratively, to describe the future state of God’s people in that parable I sort of explained).

The center of the earth is never described as a place where the damned go at death. For God’s sake, this article said that Christ went to such a place. What heresy!!

Now, I think I will discontinue pointing out all of the problems with that article. I will now prove scripturally, that when someone dies, they could not be in this damn place invented by the worst pagans. What does the bible say happens to people when they die? Do they go to some beautiful place in the sky or a place of torment? Do the unrighteous go to the center of the earth to be tortured with the literal molten medals that are said to be there? Give me a break!! But, on to the scriptures that identify the state of all the dead, including Christ for three days, and Lazarus (who had no stories of the after life when Christ resurrected him).

Scriptural proof that the dead are really dead:

Gen. 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Deut 31:16 And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; . . . .

Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?

Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned (returned) into hell (sheol) all the nations that forget God.

Psa 13:3 Consider and hear me, O Lord my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Ecc. 9:5 and 6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion . . . . .

Ecc 10 . . . . for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Dan 12: 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting (olam) life, and some to shame and everlasting (olam) contempt.

John 11:38 and 39 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.

John 11:39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.

So on all scriptural levels, this man’s testimony has been refuted. I’m sure that if I took a week, I could do a much more thorough job of destroying this Rawlings character’s credibility. If you want to believe that this man is telling the truth, then go ahead. But I have shown you that it is all unscriptural nonsense. So, who ya gonna believe? The scriptures or some deluded man?


Thinkaboutit77 profile image

Thinkaboutit77 8 years ago Author

Dan forget rhetoric, just look at the facts. If you're truly not afraid to be proven wrong and you really do care about the truth, then click on the "Truth About Hell" link and read the article. I challenge you.

If the article is wrong just refute the article paragraph by paragraph, if not then don't waste your time, because you will not convince anyone of your position otherwise.


Dan 8 years ago

Ha!! I love that graphic of the center of the earth. So, that's where hell is? Why, because scientists know that it is hot there? I think even these "Stevie Wonders" on this blog (no offence Stevie) are too sophisticated to believe that their "made up hell" is in the center of the earth. I wonder if you even have permission to use that ridiculous graphic.

I marvel at the degree of evil, dogmatic christians will go to in order to try and teach their heresy. Rather than actually meditating on this crap and sincerelly pleading with God for truth, they use computer graphics of some physical location to show the degree of pain those will be in who refuse to follow their foolish beliefs. There has got to be somebody reading this flog (no, it's not a typo) that doesn't buy into such unscriptural, unspiritual and unGodly swill. If anybody wants to try and set these heritics straight, please show yourself, now.

I realize that the truths of God are not popular. But they are awesome. Ask God to show you sometime.


Thinkaboutit77 8 years ago

Thank you secondsamuel, but the Lord gets all the glory, I'm a nobody (John 13:30) and that's the way it needs to stay.


secondsamuel profile image

secondsamuel 8 years ago from Seneca SC

Hey, Hey, Hey........Jay!!!!! Looks like you got a thread going on in the comment box. Way-to-go-Jay. I love it when followers of Jesus Christ standup and speak up. You know that Jesus himself said that we would be persecuted as He was and that particular prophecy is fulfilled every day on the hubs. You stand firm Jay, finish the race, our redemption is near.

Anyway to address your statements about hell; yes the bible makes it crystal clear that there is such a place called hell and our belief that there is or is not such a place does not change the reality of it. God bless you brother.


Dan 8 years ago

Yes Viral, I do believe that scripture.

Wow, you "must" be shook up. You look like a dog (just a joke).

Listen, I can't go through everything that I've written on these hubs. You know, what the Lake of Fire is?, what the brimstone is?, yadadada. But you are just as stuck in the false worldly beliefs of the church as these two. In your second paragraph there are about 4 unscriptural statements. Perhaps I may be selfish, but I don't believe there's a snowballs chance in your hell that you or these two will get what I am saying. The only reason I continue here is that I hope others will actually read (unlike you) what I have written.

By the way, if God doesn't care about me as much as these hell believing christians do, I hardly think he is worthy of worship. Fortunately, I know that this is not the case.


allshookup profile image

allshookup 8 years ago from The South, United States

In case your Bible is not close...."But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and the murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

You are right that everyone shall confess. The Bible says that every knee shal bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. But, that is not saying that all those people will be saved. It just means that everyone will confess who Jesus is. If you are not saved when you die or when the rapture comes, you will not go to Heaven. There are only 2 places where you can go, Heaven or Hell. It's your choice right now. But you have been witnessed to on this board by Christians who are concerned about your soul. These people care enough about you that they are taking their time to try and help you. If the rapture comes or you die and you have not made the decision to accept Jesus as your Savior, you will not get another chance. Please heed their words. They are only telling you this because they care for you.


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

Dan;

Rev 21:8. Bye.


Dan 8 years ago

First of all Dent, even if Steeples came from the same idea that the Babylonians had, it is wrong. I think most of the christian doctrines are right out of paganism (hell happens to be the very worst one). Fertility was probably the source of most pagan rituals.

Again Dent, I never ever said hell fire was scriptural. That's your misunderstanding. The Lake of Fire is, and is not the same as the disgusting doctrine of hell. Now this part hurts, but must be said. I never said that we are brothers. We will be someday, but right now, we are not. I've continued to call you blind for a reason. But I think this other guy takes the cake.

Viral, you have nothing but false accusations against me and every person who I quote. In no way, have I or the writer just quoted said to ignore the bible. Sometimes, one must seek proper translations. The main ones are for hell and eternal. There are others, just not as important as those. I don't know why you keep posting. I can eat every one of your arguments for breakfast. I know that these truths are not popular but they are not limited only to a couple of people. The truths of God, however, are believed by few, as the "Bible" declares will be the case. As far as your 16 year old is concerned: Please, give him/her a break. Most people have to learn untruths from the Whore of Babylon before they are dragged out by Christ. Perhaps, your 16 year old will be one of the chosen so that he/she may teach you a thing or to. That is my prayer.

P.S.

As soon as you stop answering with nonsense, I will stop debunking your filth.


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

Dan;

You were out there a month or so ago, but you have lost control now. You are cussing and calling names right and left. You need to quit reading that mess that you post here. You don't even understand what it says. Your latest one says to ignore the Bible! It tries to make the case that God is just merciful, so there can logically be no hell. My 16 year old would laugh in your face on that one! A child has better reasoning skills than that. Give us a break.

Dan, hint, read the Bible. You have never done that successfully. Hell is real, as we have shown you repeatedly from the Bible. You just run from false teaching to false teaching. You say it yourself, and that will have its time, huh?


SirDent 8 years ago

Dan, you say you explain, then you contradict what you say by saying that those who go into the fire will come out of the fire cleansed.

As far as steeples go. they most likely are reminiscnet of thew tower of Babel. The tower of Babel was being built trying to find God. Steeples are not used to try and find God these days are they?

Now, there is one way and only one way to God. That is through the blood of Jesus Christ. Not through the fires of hell, nor the lake of fire.

Satan made his bed and he will have to lie in it. Those who refuse salvastion through Christ will follow Satan into the lake of fire where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.

You fight hard against me and call me your brother, (or you used to), but yet you refuse to preach repentance to those who are lost. WHY????

John the Baptist started preaching repentance. Jesus preached repentance also but took it a step further. Are we to be like Christ or do we sit back and do nothing? As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing left for me to say. Of course it depends on your response also.


Dan 8 years ago

Well, let's see. First of all Dent, I've already explained that repentance "is" absolutelly necessarry for one to receive salvation. Everybody has sinned. Everybody will repent. See what I mean about you being blind? I have to repeat my-self over and over. The church you speak of are those anointed with the holy spirit. In other words, those that can make sense of the gospels. You and your worldly churches (those buildings with expensive architecture, steeples that are probably pagan borrowings of those who worship the penis, and spiritually blind ministers who rarely speak sound doctrine), for the most part, cannot see the wonderful truths. There is a section of a book by a universalist writer that identifies my real fealings about the ridiculous doctrine of eternal torment. Here it is:

". . . . . how are we, as believers in Scripture, to reconcile its prophetic declarations as to the final restitution of all things, with those other statements of the same Scripture, which are so often quoted to prove eternal punishment? Scripture, you say, affirms that God our Father is a Saviour, full of pity towards the lost, seeking their restoration; so loving that He has given for man His Only-Begotten Son, in and by whom the curse shall be overcome, and all the kndreds of the earth be blessed; and yet that some shall go away into everlasting punishment, where their worm dieth not and fire is not quenched. How is it possible, you ask, to reconcile all this? Are not the statements directly inconsistent? And if so, must not the statements of the Bible, as of other books, be corrected by that light of reason and conscience, which is naturally or divinely implanted in every one of us? . . . . . . . . . ... . Christ-like souls can no more be unconcerned as to what may or may not be God's mind as to the mass of humanity, than they can stand by unaffected when the destitute perish from hunger, or the dying agonize in pain. . . . . . . But, agreeing with you in this, I cannot grant that the difficulty you urge is unanswerable, or that, even if it were, you would be wise for such a reason to reject the Scriptures." (Andrew Jukes, Restitution of All Things, p. 2 and 3).

And he's nice about it.

So in other words, if the scriptures actually said that those cast into the Lake of Fire will never be saved, or christ came to save some, or the screaming of their torture will rise forever, then perhaps you should abandon the whole book. It could "not" be true if that were the case. I thank God that I now know, that those apparent contradictions in scripture mean something totally different than what the daughters of Babylon say they mean. Thank God that I am being shown (not by Ray or this Jukes guy) by the holy spirit that God trully is Love.

Won't you rejoice with me in the truths of God, rather than wallow in the sick doctrine of eternal torment?


SirDent 8 years ago

dan  says:2 hours ago

No, Dent. At this point God would tell me to stop casting pearls at swine. Viral, it's crystal clear that you are blind. And as for Commentonthis? Your continued belief in heresy deserves no comment.

SirDent: So you are saying that repentance isn't necessary by anyone at all? What you miss is that Jesus died for the sins of the world. He commissioned the church to preach His gospel, which incidentally includes repentance.


dan 8 years ago

And I've wasted too much time explaining the true meanings of the bible verses that you guys quote. You are hopelessly blind at this time. Good thing it's not a permanent condition.

By the way, there are several sources on the net and beyond, that proove the non exisistense of your damn christian hell. Also, I think for my self on all of these matters, and it just so happens that my conclusions have been similar to Ray's and others with spiritual eyes to see. And no Darth Viral, I am not joining the Dark Side.


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

Dan;

You continue to make foolish statements from some two bit website. Sir Dent and I have wasted far too much time quoting actual scriptures from the Bible for you. All you have is the word of some quack who cannot understand the Bible. You gave up on both Sir Dent's and my threads because you cannot find anything in the Bible that makes your point. I give you credit for standing by your man, though. Sir Dent and I will stand by our God. Come join us whenever you toss out the word of some man and try the Bible instead. I would recommend bible.org for you.

Hell is real, and you are the one who is blind. It is mentioned in the Bible over and over as we have pointed out to you repeatedly. You refuse to see it and believe in Ray or Roy or whatever his name is. It is my opinion that he is in great jeopardy with God for misleading you and others with false teachings. I see that you are trying to twist the Bible, too, and that is a very dangerous area.

As to your pearls and swine comment, I wish that you would quit your foolish ways, too. You show that you are totally out of control with such inane comments. You prove that have no sense of reality to make such a comment.


dan 8 years ago

No, Dent. At this point God would tell me to stop casting pearls at swine. Viral, it's crystal clear that you are blind. And as for Commentonthis? Your continued belief in heresy deserves no comment.


viralprospector profile image

viralprospector 8 years ago from DFW Texas

The Bible is crystal clear that hell does exist.


SirDent 8 years ago

Dan why aren't you out screaming for people to repent? Isn't that what Jesus commissioned all believers to do?

Good article thinkaboutit.


commentonthis7 profile image

commentonthis7 8 years ago

hell does exist


Dan 8 years ago

If I believed in such a place, I would be a selfish evil man for not screaming for the repentence of the world. They should have to institutionalize me for the insanity that I would display. This goes for all hell believing Christians. If you are able to carry on your daily activities believing in such an awful and unGodly place, then you are absolutelly selfish and are not considering the pain, fear, and hopelessness that you believe the lost will suffer for eternity. You should be ashamed of yourselves. . . if you actually believe that crap. But perhaps, you don't actually believe in such a place. You are just afraid to admit that this belief sounds like evil nonsense. Or, as the author suggests, you are fense sitting on the phylisophical paradigm of Pasquels Wager. What if hell does exist?

Not to worry!! It most definitely does not. Go to bible-truths.com to learn some truth.

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