Does the Bible say God wants to have a relationship with me?

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I’m afraid that many people view God as distant and out of touch with humanity. Some prefer it this way. If God is far away, then it doesn’t matter how they live their lives because he doesn’t care what they do. Others look at their lives and think that if God is real, then he enjoys making us miserable. Sometimes this is a convenient view that absolves them of the consequences from the decisions they make. And then there are those who live with the true tragedies in life. Where is God when the unthinkable happens with no apparent reason? Is he there? Does he care? Does God see me?

A little while ago, Bette Midler sang a popular song written by Julie Gold called “From a Distance”, in which Gold portrays God as watching us “from a distance”. It is a beautiful song which shows God as a God who is far away and out of touch with his creation. Could this be true? I think this is how many people view God today. They don’t believe that he knows them and cares about them. They don’t think he sees what’s going on in the world or can do anything about it. Is this the picture the Bible gives of God?

A few years later, Joan Osborne sang a song called “One of Us” which brought God a little closer, picturing him as “a stranger on the bus”, lonely with “nobody calling on the phone”. She asks a very good question. Would we want to see his face if it meant we would have to believe Jesus and the Prophets? What do you think? Would you want to know that God was real if it meant you had to change your whole viewpoint, your life style?

The Bible claims to be the Word of God to us, the words he wants us to know about life, love, truth, and who he is. This should be the best place to find out if God wants to have a relationship with us and what he thinks of us.

In Athens, Paul preached “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.” Acts 17:24 – 28

Again in Psalm 145:18, David assures us “The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.”

Through the prophet Jeremiah, God promises a nation in captivity… “Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.” Jeremiah 29:12 & 13

The poet king David writes “The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. Psalm 34:18

We see that God is near, and in my hub “Does the Bible say God loves me?” we learned that God does indeed love us, so the next question is “what kind of relationship does God want to have with me?”

I believe the Bible indicates that God does want to have a relationship with us. But he wants us to desire it too. He is a gentleman and will not force us to love him, but will wait for us to look for him. He knows our hearts and will answer those who truly want him to be a part of their lives. Over and over God asks us to search for him. He says he is close to us, waiting for us to call out to him. Here are just a few verses that attest to this:

Psalm 68:5 describes God as “a father to the fatherless, a defender of widows, is God in his holy dwelling.”

The prophet Isaiah says “Yet, O LORD, you are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand.”

God encourages us to call him “father” in the example Jesus gave us on how to pray. Matthew 6:9 – “This, then is how you should pray: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed by your name.”

One thing I have learned from being a parent is that I can only protect my children if they listen to me. It breaks my heart when they chose to disobey me and do something that I know will cause them pain in the end. The older they get and the more freedom I must give them to make their own decisions, the harder this becomes. I can hear this reflected in God’s words to his people in Jeremiah 3:19&20.

“I myself said, “How gladly would I treat you like sons and give you a desirable land, the most beautiful inheritance of any nation. I thought you would call me Father and not turn away from following me. But like a woman unfaithful to her husband, so you have been unfaithful to me, O house of Israel.” declares the LORD.”

I believe this shows that God wants to be our loving Father. It is important to clarify “loving” because there are many people in the world today who don’t know what a loving father is. They may have grown up without a dad, or with a father who ignored them or worse, was abusive. They may not know that a loving father cares for his children. He wants what’s best for them. A loving father doesn’t shelter and spoil his children. He walks with them through the trials of life, teaching them how to get through and come out a better person. Perhaps the song “When God Ran” by Benny Hester is a better view of God and his desire to be a part of our lives.

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Comments 69 comments

teacherjoe52 profile image

teacherjoe52 3 years ago

Good morning little sister.

Very well said.

Of course God wants a relationship with us. What kind of family is there with love if there is no relationship.

God bless you with love, peace and joy.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

HAPPY EASTER TEACHERJOE! Hope all is well with you! Thank you for your visit today. I hope people realize how precious they are to God.


Rayne123 3 years ago

Great hub

its funny you say some prefer a distant relationship with God and think he wont care what they do.

Quite the contrary he sees/hears/knows all. There is a scripture that states they have no excuses, they know of Gods existence.

To be exact

The eternal power and deity of God are observed by all. "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened" (Romans 1:18-21).

Thank you for the great hub

Laurie


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Exactly Laurie, regardless of what we prefer, God knows the hearts of each one of us. Thank you, I appreciate your visit!


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

hello newengland, I deleted your original comment to Rayne123, what on earth? her comment was not directed at you. People need to be able to comment on my hubs without being attacked by someone else.

Sorry I didn't catch that right away Laurie


newenglandsun 3 years ago

In regard to the Joan Osborne song, why is she assuming that God is real? Perhaps God is real but if I saw his face, how could I actually be certain it wasn't some other God out there? How can I be certain it wasn't Ahura-Mazda? Is the prophet she is talking about Zoroastr? If God is real, then if I saw his face, could I really even be certain it was the Christian God? And if God is not real, then if I saw his face, it could be just an hillucination. This is the problem I am having with the Joan Osborne song. It assumes the reality of God and Christianity when this is what is doubted by a seeker.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

Sorry, I meant to edit:

It is ZoroastEr not Zoroastr - Zoroaster

The prophet of Zoroastrianism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Hi newengland,

I think the song is meant to be about anything we might be challenged to change our minds about and they picked God for their example. Regardless, I think it asks some good questions. I read something about it once, let me see if I can find it...

here it is on songfacts: I was close.

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=3249


newenglandsun 3 years ago

Thank you. That made the song more enjoyable knowing there was nothing theological about it.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

I re-listened to the song and I noticed the part at the end where she says "'cept the Pope maybe in Rome". Now I am wondering if the original intent of the song wasn't to aim an attack at the Roman Catholic Church. Within the Church, the Pope has what is called infallibility which pretty much means that when he makes a decision on doctrine, it's infallible and of God. By all means, he's probably the closest to God.

There's another song I heard of on a blog somewhere by the band Epica which has interesting theosophical statements that was also written against the Roman Catholic Church's sex abuse scandals.

http://3dchristianity.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/hea...


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

hmm, not sure but I think the song was written before those scandals. I think it's just a reflection of a perception that people may have about the pope.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

No. That was the Epica song that was about the scandals.

Sorry. I think it is a reflection of the Pope's arrogance personally and wouldn't be surprised.

I should right a song about the evils of Focus on the Family and other groups that enforce people to fit their definition of what a human (male or female) should be.

I hate anti-gays...one reason why I hate the god of Christianity and even if I saw his face, it would be to kill him.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Happy Monday Newengland. The Epica song kind of reminded me of Martin Luther.

I’m glad you wrote your last line at the end of the week. It gave me some time to think through my response. I want you to understand that my love for God is as real as my love for my husband or my kids. So when you say you wish he was dead, it causes a reaction in me. It feels like you are attacking someone I love. I imagine that you would react if I said I wished that someone you cared about were dead. I think this may be why you get such a negative response from so many Christians, although I shouldn’t speak for them. It may also explain why you don't hear from God when you ask him if he's real.

I don’t believe you mean to hurt me or others and I don’t think you meant it personally. I try not to take it that way. I just wanted you to know it felt personal and hopefully you can understand why. I have no hard feelings towards you, and hopefully you won't have any towards me for saying this today.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

Sometimes, it feels that your god is attacking people I love.

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/...

I can't let people I love get hurt. That would be irrespinsible on my part.

The Epica song reminded me of Martin Luther too. He was a hypocrite, an anti-semitist, and anti-Muslim. I can see how someone can take it as being against Martin Luther as well.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Good Morning Newengland. that is a terrible sign. But that not God attacking you and yours, it is the little boy (or most likely his parents) attacking you using God's name. It happens a lot and I agree it's wrong. The Bible does not say that God hates fags or homosexuals.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

"the Catholic Catechism states regarding the issue of homosexuality and choice:

"The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. The persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition" (CCC 2358). While they may not choose their desires, homosexuals do have the ability to choose whether they act on those desires, just as an alcoholic has the choice of whether to act on his desire to get drunk and just as a heterosexual has the choice of acting on his desires. For this reason, the Catechism states, "Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, traditions has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to natural law ... Under no circumstances can they be approved ... Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection" (CCC 2357, 2359)."

http://www.conservapedia.com/Bisexuality

That's god hating fags.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Hmmm

I read this and I see a separation between the person and the act.

It looks like they are teaching respect for the homosexual person. I see no hatred here for the person.

I do see it saying the act of homosexuality along with drunkenness (and probably implies any sin) as not to be approved. I am not familiar with the catechism but my guess is if it’s a guide to sins that it also has a section against all sex outside of marriage.

I do think that the Bible teaches that God loves the person who sins, but hates the sin itself. Maybe I will do my next hub on that.

God hates sin because it hurts people. Some things are sin because the consequences could hurt us and others are sins because they can hurt others. Everything we do has natural consequences and those consequences affect others as well as ourselves. God’s laws are for our own protection and to show us how to live life as he designed it to be.

I think God loves fags as much as he loves everyone else. We all sin, no one is perfect and God doesn’t force us to obey his law. If we want forgiveness, he offers it to us. If we don’t want to see our actions as sin and change, that is our choice. But then we can’t go blaming him when we don’t like how our lives turn out.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

Is eating shrimp a sin (Leviticus 11:9-12)?


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Good Morning Newengland,

Looks like your comment got labeled as possible spam, but I can still see it, just not sure you can. I would say the consequences are the same as any sex outside of marriage. Std’s are always possible, ranging from uncomfortable to deadly. You are more likely to be used and (more often for women) abused. It can leave you feeling empty or take control of you. It’s not right, but you can also become a focus for political manipulation and public prejudice. For some it costs relationships of friends and family members. I don’t know what else right now. I’m struggling with vertigo today and can’t think. Consequences and situations are different for everybody, but if sex were kept as intended there would be less pain in the world.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

How can you get STD's from having sex with a member of the same gender? I've heard that before but it's never actually been backed up. I think it's something anti-gays like to say to scare non-heterosexual people. And if it is consensual sex, then how are people being harmed? And what exactly is this intended sex?


newenglandsun 3 years ago

I guess like I said before, that if god wants to condemn homosexuals for no reason (and there is NOT a reason), then god should be put to death for his crimes of tyranny. IF he exists. Uganda is trying to have gays killed. Do you support this? (rhetorical question, of course you do, you believe in a god who hates fags and orders them put to death). God is a criminal and should be tried as one, not mimicked as the Bible wants to assert.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

I would ask your doctor about the first, and no I do not support killing gays. I have several friends who are gay and it was through them I got the impression that std's are also a part of the gay community.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Sorry, I can't help this...Really???


newenglandsun 3 years ago

I looked up HIV/AIDS. Apparently, it happens more frequently when it is heterosexuals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS#Sexual

Maybe this is why Odin hates heterosexuality?

I mean, seriously, what if instead of homosexuality, God had condemned heterosexuality. How would you feel? Would you feel like God hated you?


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

I don't think homosexual sin is any different than heterosexual sin outside of marriage. And neither is any different than lying or stealing or gluttony or gossip or....or.... Sin is sin and we all do it

so no, I sin and I know God hates my sin and I know he loves me, he doesn't hate me because I sin.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

I'm not asking that. I'm asking what if god decided that heterosexuality (both inside of marriage and outside of marriage) was a sin. But you could still be a heterosexual though. What if god created Adam and Steve or Anna and Eve instead of Adam and Eve.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Is everything else the same...has Jesus still died so my sins could be forgiven and I could have the same relationship with God that I do now?


newenglandsun 3 years ago

Yeah except for the fact that God wants you to reject your heterosexual lifestyle in this scenario. But he loves you anyway, he just wants you to reject the heterosexual lifestyle.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Essay:Heterosexuality...


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Then yes, I would change. And I don't say that lightly. Not just because I think sex is awesome, but because I have changed because God wanted me to. I have changed my lifestyle to do what God wants me to do. And I have not only allowed him, but asked him to change things about my personality to be the person he wants me to be. It wasn't always easy, but I do not regret it. The peace I have knowing he loves me unconditionally is worth giving up anything he asks me to.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

So god does not love us for who we are?


newenglandsun 3 years ago

I'm sorry. I tore pages out of that NRSV Bible today. Well...now it's going to be difficult to use that Bible to hinder the rights of homosexuals and bisexuals.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Happy Sunday

Feel better?

Yes, God loves us for who we are. I also love my children for who they are, but I would not love them very much if I didn’t try to encourage them to become better people. If I let them as they are now they will not survive very long in the real world. They may not always like what I have to say, but I can’t protect them or help them if they aren’t willing to obey me.

When I was younger, I discovered that I had the ability to manipulate and control people. I liked the feeling of power this gave me, but I was a very cold and uncaring person. I didn’t care about anyone. You could have told me someone close to me was dying of cancer and I wouldn’t have cared. Then I got a glimpse into how lonely the future could be for a person like me. I knew that God loved me just the way I was, but I also knew this wasn’t how he wanted me to be, because he didn’t want me to spend my life lonely. So I asked him to give me compassion. Then I forgot all about it until many years later when someone commented that I was so compassionate. I looked back at my life and was so glad I had asked God to change me. I am so much happier now. Sometimes I think about the power and how easy it would be to manipulate certain people, but I don’t want to go back so it is only a fleeting thought.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

How are acts of homosexuality so sinful or immoral? This is something that never has been addressed to me coherently by Christians as to why it's immoral.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

not ignoring you. puking, dizzy, doc thinks I'm having seizures. I'll get back when I can move without spinning. That is if you're sure your comfortable talking about sex with a woman twice your age that you never met.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

my comments aren't showing up


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

good evening newengland. I am feeling better, thank you for asking.

No that is not what I was going to say

Hubpages has an automatic content filter which seems to think your ranting is spam.

Speaking of ranting, I have one of my own: I just told you I was nauseous, dizzy and having seizures. I spent the last two days barely able to function. I may have a brain tumor and even if I don't, I have a whole lot of miserable tests ahead of me to find out what is wrong. this is not fun. It would be nice if you could put your own guilt and anger aside for a minute and instead of spewing your hatred at me, ask me how I'm doing and tell me that you hope that it is nothing serious and that I will be ok. thought we were better friends than this.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

Sorry. I've never met you so for all I know, you could just be a series of binary composed words. I hope it is nothing serious.


Rayne123 3 years ago

HI April, I am real sorry to hear about your illness.

I will pray for you, however I think everything is ok.

You can ask God and he will lead you to the answer, he always does for me, for some things anyway.

I do not believe it is a brain tumor, for some reason I think you have an infection they have not yet discovered. I don't think it is anything serious.

Doctors are not the best, not here anyway. When our bodies feel different only we know how or what we may have so at times we have to tell the doctors.

God bless

Laurie


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Thank you Laurie, I appreciate it. I am hoping it is not a brain tumor, but I know I am in God's hands and he will be with me no matter what we find out. Thank you for your prayers! An infection would be nice and easy to fix!


Rayne123 3 years ago

I do not believe it is a tumor, I believe it is fixable.

Your not ready yet , God needs you and has bigger plans.

I also have something God has been working on for me and is now finished. Everyone I have met here and all my friends and family will benefit, so with that said, trust me it is fixable.

I ask God when I feel not so good and he tells me, I am going to ask for you if that is ok.

God bless

Laurie


Rayne123 3 years ago

Ok I asked and was led to a picture of a puppy with the caption underneath that said.........Is isn't all that bad, however I been asking God to confirm for me but he hasn't yet.

I usually know right away, but I am going to go with faith and know that this is for you, reason why God does not want to confirm again, he wants me and you to have faith.

So you know what its not what you think it is and you are going to be fine.

When do you get results or go for tests?

God bless

Laurie


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Thanks Laurie, I got some tests back. I don't have anemia, thyroid, or organ malfunction. I go back tomorrow for further consultation and see the neurologist at the end of the month.


Rayne123 3 years ago

Well I guess that is a good thing so far right

So stay positive, I have no doubt in my heart and in God

God bless


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Thank you! I am doing well today.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

I came out to my parents about my bisexuality. They think I'm confused about my sexual orientation although it's hard to take them seriously when it comes to issues of sexual orientation considering that they also believe a lot of bunk about the subject (such as LGBT people are genderly confused). I'm not certain how to explain it further to them. From my own investigation on the topic, genetics have a role in sexual orientation although most are not entirely certain. I read in 1 Cor. 7 that Paul believes that the remedy for lust is marriage (referring to LGBT people as well or strictly heterosexuals?).


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Good Morning Newengland,

Sorry, last week I couldn’t get out of bed and this week my kids have been sick. Not a whole lot of fun at our house.

I am glad you told your parents. I find it hard to keep secrets from mine. Hopefully you have enough respect for them to give them the time they need to accept your decisions. And I hope they love you enough to accept you and show you love even if they don’t agree with your choices. Then maybe you won’t be so angry at everyone. I know that for me as a parent, it’s hard to see my kids make choices that I think could end up hurting them or not being the best for them. But I still love them no matter what.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

I don't blame them. I blame more so on what some of the material they have read on the topic overall has taught them giving them such a poor understanding of the issue.

I know one time, my mom said gay people were genderly confused but this isn't a proper understanding of the issue at all. GID is more of an appropriate term to address in regard to transgenders but not homos and bis.

I still don't really see as to how to be attracted to a man if I am a guy is all to harmful to myself. Even in heterosexual relations do bad and harmful things happen. For instance, "if a man looks upon a woman with lust, he is already guilty of idolatry" (lust just simply being a longing for or a desire) hence, heterosexuality is condemned at least for men.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

Are you certain that my being a bisexual and liking both men and women is really a sin or that harmful? I have read some of the different commentaries on the issue and these are my own personal comments:

Genesis 19:1-10 – “And they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them."”

Jude 1:7 – “just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.”

The word used in Jude 1:7 is sarx which can be referring to human flesh or human desire or even animals. The word strange is actually the Greek word heteros which means "another of a different sort". More likely refers to bestiality or perhaps shameful idolatry. Thus, Jude 1:7 doesn’t really state that the problem with Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexuality, that and it is also covered that they had problems with hospitality as well (Ezekiel 16:49-50).

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 – “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts,”

1 Timothy 1:9-10 – “immoral persons, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,”

The first word, malakos, in 1 Corinthians 6:9 means “soft”. I have also seen this word taken to be a reference to extravagance due to the softness of expensive fabrics. The second word, arsenokoitai, comes from an unknown origin and is a combination of the word “male” and “bed” which could also be referring to lazy persons (ie – men who lie in bed). I have seen some contend that it comes from Paul’s Septuagint reading of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 which makes no sense in light to his understanding of the law in Galatians 5:2-4.

Leviticus 18:22 – “You will not have intercourse with a man as you would with a woman. This is a hateful thing.”

Leviticus 20:13 – “The man who has intercourse with a man in the same way as with a woman: they have done a hateful thing together; they will be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”

Why would two dudes who might actually love each other, lying with each other, be considered hateful by God? My guess is that it would also be similar to Onan emptying his semen in Genesis 38, thus denying Tamar the right to have an heir which is the only way a woman could actually maintain status. Interestingly enough, Leviticus (and the Hebrew Bible for that matter) condemn male-on-male sex as being hateful but never female-on-female sex as being hateful or an abomination. Hence, why I think these laws would better be understood as reflecting back on their stance on woman’s social status in that day and male-on-male sex would have been considered a denial to women in their community the right to have a social standing. Lesbianism is never mentioned in the Hebrew Bible unless you want to debate Ruth and Naomi’s relationship. As for Hebrew men who were celibate, they were able to help everyone since they had no duties to maintain toward any one else other than the main civil duties required. Two men lying with each other might indicate that the two men just wanted to maintain their cultural power and avoid the duties of looking out for women. I don't know. There seems to be a lot of stuff in it that indicates that Christians don't take all of it too seriously any more though but this is the only explanation I can think of as to why the LORD also missed out on an opportunity to condemn lesbianism if he just thought that homosexuality (all forms) was an evil sin.

Genesis 1:27 – “God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply,”

This was just after God created the world. At this point, there aren’t too many humans involved. Right now, the world has 6 billion people. That, and this instruction appears to have been overridden by 1 Corinthians 7.

Genesis 2:24 – “Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”

(Repeated in 1 Corinthians 6:16, Matthew 19:4-5, Mark 10:7, Ephesians 5:31, and Malachi 2:15)

All of these verses, if anything, just simply address the issue of sex being a naturally bonding process and that when two have become bound by acts of sex, they are truly one flesh or part of one family. Additionally, Laban says to Jacob that Jacob is his flesh (Genesis 29:14) and David says to the priest of Israel that they are his flesh (2 Samuel 19:12). Thus, it doesn’t necessarily even reflect back on acts of sex but rather an art of forming together to join one body. Hence, why Jacob was of Laban’s flesh and why the priests were also of David’s flesh. Besides, the whole “God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” thing fails to take into account the part where God brought forth everything to Adam so he (or it because some have apparently argued that Adam might have been androgynous at first) could pick was suitable for him. Not everyone finds red-haired people suitable for them and not everyone finds people of the opposite gender as a suitable companion for them. That, and the whole marriage thing is discouraged by Paul in 1 Cor. 7 thus proving my point that not always does everyone find the same thing suitable to them.

Romans 1:26-27 – “For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

How precisely did the men receive a penalty for their error of committing same sex acts here? Some might argue that “Its AIDS!” but the reality is that AIDS is more frequently transferred through heterosexual acts. It could be that the error reflects back on the original context of this part in Romans 1:18-32 which addresses that they were involved in idolatry. Which would end up making homosexuality God’s way of punishing them instead. Hence, “God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done” (Romans 1:28 – RHE reads “things that which are not convenient”). Chances are, Paul would have viewed something like homosexuality as God’s all-out punishment on the idolatrous Romans and these acts as shameful and unnatural because of the way he perceived gender roles (1 Cor. 11:3 and Eph. 5:22-31) which would be considered flat out sexism in our current standards. Interestingly enough, God does things contrary to nature as well (Romans 11:24). Paul also says to his audience that condemning the Romans for what they have done here reflects back on you “because you…practice the very same things” (Romans 2:1). Not everyone practices homosexuality but everyone does practice what is condemned in Romans 1:29-32.

That said, I see no reason why Christians should get all worked up over such a minor issue like this that’s not even explicitly prohibited in the Bible. I think Christians should be way more intent on condemning heterosexual orientation in men for “everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matt. 5:28).

I don't know. What do you think?

Bibles quoted include the RSV, ESV, and NJB.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

having computer problems today. hubby's trying to fix.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Hi Newengland,

I see you wrote again. Sorry, I won’t have time to go through it right now so this is just mostly going to apply to your previous post.

I am glad to hear that you don’t blame your parents.

I guess I never gave you my opinion after you told me what I was going to say. I am going to assume that since you are bringing it up again, you are interested in what I would have said.

I would say that God created sex to be one of the most amazing experiences you can have as an adult. It builds a powerful bond between two people that helps keep them together through all the hard things life throws at them. This bond isn’t meant to be broken and when it is, it can be incredibly painful.

The commitment you get with marriage is intended to help protect this bond. (Unfortunately, marriage isn’t always what it’s supposed to be and people still cheat and get hurt). It’s like a game, in order for it to be the best, you play by the rules. The only rule is no sex outside marriage. That makes all sex outside of marriage a sin. I don’t see the difference between bi, homo or hetro sex outside of marriage. It’s all wrong because it goes against God’s rule. That rule is made to protect the bond, helping to keep us from getting hurt. It doesn’t mean it won’t still be fun, but every time you sleep with someone, you give them a piece of yourself and every time the relationship ends, you are a little emptier inside.

God made the rules to give us what is best for us. But it is up to us to decide if we want to obey them or not. We just can’t blame God when we get hurt or feel empty if we aren’t going to play by them.

But in the end, if you don’t have the kind of personal relationship with God that makes you want to obey him, it shouldn’t matter. You are free to live your life as you please on your own and make the best of it that you can. You are an adult and old enough to make your own choice and take responsibility for your own actions. I don’t think being bisexual makes you a bad person. Other than your family and those closest to you (who love you no matter what), what anyone else thinks shouldn’t matter. That includes the church, society, politics, acquaintances, me, or anyone else you come across.

I have to go now. I’ll talk to you later.


Rayne123 3 years ago

Wow that could of not been said more perfect April.

That answers a lot of the questions on here in a simple way.

God gave us perfect rules and if we do not want to abide them then we suffer the consequences. We need to not blame God as we choice our free will.

Actually came here to see how you are feeling and hope all is well. As I know it will be

God bless

Laurie


newenglandsun 3 years ago

Your statement makes me wonder about the polygamous relationships within the Bible. I actually do agree wiwith your comment that sex "builds a powerful bond between two people that helps keep them together through all the hard things". I would add that it is regardless if it is with the same gender or not.

Also, being a bisexual does not mean I am sexually promiscuous. I might add that I am a bisexual virgin as in a bisexual who has yet to have sex.

http://www.bridgew.edu/glbta/pdfs/BiMythsFacts.pdf

I saw an interesting video that had Brian McLaren in it. I'm thinking he might actually be onto something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OITQCfbGy_8


newenglandsun 3 years ago

I would have to wonder about the polygamous relationships in the Bible. I agree that sex is an act of forming strong bonds between people whether they be of the same gender or not. Marriage is a legal institution though. Also, being a bisexual does not make me sexually promiscuous. You seem to keep suggesting that.

http://www.bridgew.edu/glbta/pdfs/BiMythsFacts.pdf

I am not only a bisexual, I am a virgin. Being bisexual just means I like men and women.

I saw this interesting video by Brian McLaren. I think he might actually be onto something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OITQCfbGy_8


newenglandsun 3 years ago

Sorry about that. I thought my first comment was marked as spam.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

I didn't mean to apply anything newengland. Those are general statements I would tell anyone who asked me what I believe and why. It did not occur to me that you might be promiscuous.

The bible is historically accurate and the people who lived then were no more perfect than we are. Just because something was socially acceptable doesn't mean it was God approved.

Thank you Laurie. I am doing pretty good this week. My dizzy spells seem to come and go in cycles. I am concerned because the frequency and intensity seems to be increasing. I tend to think I'm fine when I'm feeling good and hope that there is really nothing wrong. I'm thinking about writing about it here on hubpages to help me keep better track of what's going on.

I think I owe you an apology for snapping at you the other week newengland. While I usually do not fear or worry about things, you caught me at a bad time. The seizure possibility took me by surprise. Please forgive me.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

I know that Christians always state that but when we compare our moral standards to that of the Bible, the Bible's track record is just, unfortunately, not great. It's been used to foster sexism as well as slavery and racism for that notion. I guess my main question about those two issues is why the writers of the Bible used sexist terminology and pro-slavery terminology? It makes no sense that any morally "good" god would allow these kinds of things to happen.


Rayne123 3 years ago

Nope you are fine, it may be the stress and worry that is making it seem worse, I have to trust God led me to that picture I told you about for a reason.

Remember God knows all and he would of not led me there knowing I was going to take it as a sign if there was something wrong.

However I am going to ask again, and I always keep you in my prayers

God bless you

Sometimes God uses others to relate the message. God works in ways some of us can't figure out sometimes.

I ask God questions and talk to him a lot and he always leads me to the answers, however certain things going on in my life now he leads me to hub pages that are written in his words through someone.

So even though you may be close to God he may want someone else to relate the message, so we feel better and have more of a confirmation.

Love Laurie


newenglandsun 3 years ago

What the APA says:

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/just-the-fact...

No. I am not promiscuous which is what I said. The only items in this world that I am aware of that treat the issue as evil and immoral are just books by religious minded patriarchs.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

I guess this is another reason why I have a difficult time accepting the Bible. It's morals are based this way for no apparent reason (e.g. sex should only be between a married man and woman) and there is no way to defend this, or it's morals are odious (e.g. children in the Old Testament being killed and Israelites killing the non-believers). By the way...

Hot guys:

http://www.metal-archives.com/images/2/4/24_photo....

Hot girls:

http://www.wallsave.com/wallpapers/1280x1024/simon...

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma8qccZLtw1rycof...


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

they had the same freedom to follow or ignore the rules that we do.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

Some of the stuff about the Bible's morals...

2 Chronicles 15:13-15 - and every one who doth not seek for Jehovah, God of Israel, is put to death, from small unto great, from man unto woman. And they swear to Jehovah with a loud voice, and with shouting, and with trumpets, and with cornets, and rejoice do all Judah concerning the oath, for with all their heart they have sworn, and with all their good-will they have sought Him, and He is found of them, and Jehovah giveth rest to them round about. (YLT)

Revelation 2:23 - and her children I will kill in death, and know shall all the assemblies that I am he who is searching reins and hearts; and I will give to you -- to each -- according to your works. (YLT)

What did her children do to deserve death?


newenglandsun 3 years ago

And then bears were sent by Elisha in God's name to devour children just for making fun of his hair. Sorry, but I might punch someone in the face for that but I would never find that cause of retaliation to murder them.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

Good Evening Newengland,

Hope you are well. About the bears, I’ve done some research and I’m not sure what is going on here is as simple as children getting killed for making fun of someone’s hair.

New American Standard Translation – 2 Kings 2:23 & 24 – “Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, “ Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!” When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up fourty-two lads of their number.”

I wanted to see if I could tell how old the children were. It seemed odd to me that so many little kids would be out without their parents to keep them in line or that so many parents would be there and let their kids show so much disrespect. So I wanted to look at the kids and the culture to see what I could find out.

I found out that the Hebrew word for “lads” is naar. It can mean boy, youth or retainer. Others referred to as naar in the Old Testament include Benjamin when he was about 25, Abraham’s soldiers, Shechem when he wanted to marry Dinah and lots of servants and attendants of different people. So I think they were probably teenager/college age. Young may have referred to their maturity level. Forty-two plus of them would be a pretty big gang.

I found out that Bethel was predominantly a cult city with most of the residents worshipping idols. There was apparently a lot of tension between those who worshiped idols and those who worshiped God. This being the case they were probably glad that the prophet of God (Elijah), who they were in opposition to, was gone and not to happy that someone had taken his place. (This happened just after Elijah had been taken up into heaven in a fiery carriage, an event that was witnessed by many.) so “Go up” may have been a wish that Elisha would disappear too, and could have been a threat. I think that “baldhead” was a very offensive insult in that culture and didn’t refer to his hair. The Jews custom of keeping their heads covered would have prevented the lads from knowing if he was bald or not. I think Elisha was still pretty young at this time. He was still living with his parents when he became Elijah’s attendant and this probably happened within 10 years of that.

I was also curious about the curse. It doesn’t say Elisha asked God to kill them; actually it doesn’t say they all died. We don’t really know if they did or not; people sometimes survive bear attacks. So the Hebrew word for curse used here is qalal, which means to be slight, swift or trifling. Not quite the same as the more common arar, which has the more standard meaning of cursing someone.

So I would say that this could be a gang of teenagers threatening Elisha’s life, hence the curse. And the underlying issue could be a power play for those who followed idols against the new prophet of God. In which case God demonstrates his power and a warning not to mess with his man by sending wild animals to not only defend and protect Elisha, but to show that Elisha has the same kind of relationship and authority from God that Elijah did.


newenglandsun 3 years ago


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

no I missed that one. My media entertainment at that time was mostly Thomas the Tank engine and Veggie Tales


newenglandsun 3 years ago

You would have loved that show. It's about a girl who can see God and talk to God and he takes the form of a human (punk rocker, old lady, janitor, etc.).

I don't remember watching Thomas the Tank Engine. I watched Veggie Tales, Pokémon (which my grandparents always thought was demonic for some reason that I could never figure out why), Digimon, Adventures in Odyssey (which now I realize has very fundagelical theology in it), Batman, and I think I might have also watched this math show on PBS called Cyberchase as well as Arthur. I also remember watching Levar Burton in Reading Rainbow. I loved Reading Rainbow. "Butterfly in the sky, I can go twice as high! Take a look, it's in a book, it's Reading Rainbow! Reading Rainbow...reading raindbow!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mYOOiVCznA


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

we missed those, I didn't let them watch very much tv.


newenglandsun 3 years ago

I am going to have to report you to CPS for not letting your children watch Reading Rainbow now :)

I'm just kidding.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 3 years ago from Arizona Author

yep, my poor kids are deprived.

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