Refuting Calvinism - Don't Limit His LOVE!

The Savior of the World

My spirit is grieved in contending with those of "hyper-Calvinism" and their “predestination of the elect” doctrine. This belief limits the love of Christ, in that their bottom line is Christ only loves some of His creation. Their doctrine whole-heartedly teaches that many are born automatically predestined for hell and will never receive the grace to be saved through faith in Christ. This has got to be the most arrogant, prideful doctrine out there. I guess if you’re a Calvinist, you are one of the “lucky ones”; too bad for the rest.

A dear brother in the Lord told me that Calvin himself didn't fuel this sect of "Calvinism", rather he had thoughts along this line at one time and thus, the birth of "hyper-Calvinism" and its teachings to this day.

Let’s first establish scripturally that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the entire world, and none of us were born exempt from the law of sin and death.

Isaiah 53:6 “All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him.”

John 3:16 "For God so loved the WORLD, that He gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

1 Timothy 4:10 “For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially [malista - chiefly, particularly] of believers.” We’ll come to understand this passage as we go forward.

1 John 4:14 "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the WORLD."

The Drawing of the Lord

Does Man have a “free” will? Yes and no. Man has a will, and with it must choose whom he will serve. In that sense, God commands this of His creation. God created Man to procreate. While our parents decided to give birth to us, God’s purpose was to “re-birth” every single one born of the mother’s womb into His Spirit by the grace of the Lamb of God who was predestined to die for our sin from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8).

Eph 2:8-9 state, “For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.” So, since we can’t be saved of ourselves, what does this mean? It means we can never be good enough. No amount of religious works will save anyone. People were saved by faith in the coming Messiah under the Old Covenant (Hebrews 11) and are now saved by faith in the Messiah who came, died and rose again under the New Covenant.

But what about John 6:44 when Jesus said, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day”? Will the Father draw everyone or just some? Jesus said in John 12:32, “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself." That’s pretty clear. After all, Acts 17:31b states that He “furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.” If all men are drawn, do we not think that He will also give us the grace to have faith? Eph 2:8 says it’s by His grace we are saved through faith. 1 Tim 2:3 confirms "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

First of all, what is faith? “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” (Heb 11:1) If you read all of Hebrews 11 you will see many lived by faith in the unseen Messiah, even before Jesus Christ came to literally die on the cross. Remember, He was predestined to be the Lamb of God from the foundation of the world! Then, how do we obtain faith? “So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ” (Rom 10:17). Look at what happened at Corinth in Acts 10:4 “While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.”

Just as you had an appointed time to be born (Ecc 3:2), you have an appointed time to be re-born. Look at Acts 13:48: “When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.” Likewise, you have an appointed time to die: “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him” (Heb 9:28).

Grace Nullified

Now, this is interesting. Since we’ve already proven scripturally that Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men, we must now come to understand how it can be that Heb 9:28 states He was “offered once to bear the sins of many”. Here’s the answer. PEOPLE, by choice, can NULLIFY His grace! Look at Gal 2:21: “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law (Old Covenant Torah), then Christ died needlessly." See, the Jews who believed in Galatia were tempted to go back to the Law of Moses for their salvation. They were tempted to willfully reject the New Covenant of grace through faith in Christ.

Let's consider the 'Chosen' ones, namely Israel in the Bible.  If they are the 'Chosen', how is it they are told by God in Ez 33:11, "Say to them, 'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?'"

Paul tried to share the gospel of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ with the Jews. “But when they resisted and blasphemed, he shook out his garments and said to them, ‘Your blood be on your own heads! I am clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles’” (Acts 18:6). Obviously, they had the choice to receive or reject the gospel.

Surely, God’s Word says in Rom 11:23-25 that a partial hardening of the Jews had to happen so that the fullness of the Gentiles could come into the kingdom. However, now that the gospel of salvation through faith in Christ incorporates everyone (as God is no respecter of persons – Acts 10:34), the Jews who were once cut off can now be grafted in again, “if they do not continue in their unbelief.”

God Is Sovereign

What about God’s will that everyone come to repentance? Is He not sovereign in that He will accomplish the salvation of all? Understand 2 Pet 3:9 – “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” Truly, the NAS translates the KJV word “willing” to “wishing” because that’s what the Greek word means…intention. Look at Eph 1:5 “He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will…” If you look up the Lord’s prayer, the word for “Thy will be done” is 2307 thelema, meaning desire. Likewise, 1 Tim 2:3 "who desires all men to be saved" uses the word 2309 thelo, also meaning desires.

Earlier I stated, “Man has a will, and with it must choose whom he will serve.” Rom 6:16-17 “Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.”

Jesus Christ even had a “will”. What did He pray in the Garden of Gethsemane? “…not My will, but Yours be done." (Luke 22:42) See, He was a slave to the One He obeyed. Phil 2:7 tells us, “He emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men...”

Jesus said in John 12:47-48, “If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.” That’s true. However, we can’t stop there. He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.”

So, is God sovereign? Absolutely. Only He has the power to give life or death to your body and soul. Jesus said in Mat 10:28, “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [geenna – the lake of fire].

Stop the Confusion

God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor 14:33). Psalm 9:8 states that “He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.” You might be surprised that the Hebrew word for “world” here doesn’t mean world. It is the word tebel, which means confusion. Hyper-Calvinism and Universalism hold to the belief that man has no "free will", yet they are both at opposite ends of the spectrum. While hyper-Calvinists hold to the doctrine that some will never be drawn or given the grace by God to be saved and are predestined for hell, Universalists believe all will be saved and have no choice in the matter. They don't believe in hell, but rather believe they have to go through fiery trials in this life or the lake of fire after death in order to obtain salvation. Both of these are grossly missing the bulls-eye. Both believe God shows favoritism in that He pre-selects His elect and if someone doesn’t get saved it’s because they weren’t worthy to be “chosen”.

Jesus Christ is WORTHY! He is our righteousness. We become the righteousness of God in Him by faith! 2 Cor 5:21 states, “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” Truly, it is mankind that believes the lie that says, “I am not worthy of salvation”. Acts 13:46 tells us “Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, ‘It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.”

All Israel Will Be Saved

Jesus Christ died for YOUR SINS. The very moment you feel the drawing by the Father through the Holy Spirit, submit yourself to be a bond-servant to Him!! You don’t have to get cleaned up to take a bath. He washes your sin and remembers them no more! (Isa 43:25) He will place His Spirit inside you and will begin the transformation of your old man into the new man. You are then born again, a new creation in Christ Jesus (2 Cor 5:17).

Notice in Rev 7:4-14 that the 144,000 are simply stated as “those who were sealed”. Obviously, all are of the twelve tribes of Jacob (Israel). If you look at verse 9, you will read, “After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands.” Verse 14 clarifies that these are they who come out of the Great Tribulation. Have you considered Paul’s words to the believers at Ephesus (Gentiles) way back in his day? He said, “Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption” (Eph 4:30).

Jesus said He was “sent only to the lost sheep of Israel” (Mat 15:24). He also said He has “other sheep that are not of this fold” (John 10:16). Go back to verse 11 when Jesus said, "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep."  Just as literal Israel rejected the gospel making way for the salvation of the Gentiles, literal Jews can still be saved by His grace through faith in Jesus Christ. This makes up “the Israel of God” (Gal 6:16 – cross reference Rom 9:6; Gal 3:7, 29 and Phil 3:3). The statement then that “all Israel will be saved” is truth (Rom 11:26).  Truly, those who reject Christ are not sheep, but goats.  When Christ returns He will separate the sheep from the goats (Mat 25:32-46).

Limitless Love!

Don’t let doctrines of demons keep you from salvation today. Paul said in Acts 17:30-31, “Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

Rom 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

Rom 5:8 “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” You are worthy!!

What does Josh 24:15 say? “If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

He is coming back soon and I want you to be there rejoicing with me when we see our Lord, our God, our Creator, our Savior!! What if you don’t make it until tomorrow? “For He says, ‘AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU.’ Behold, now is ‘THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,’ behold, now is ‘THE DAY OF SALVATION’ – “ (2 Cor 6:2/Isa 49:8). Come to Jesus; His love is limitless!!!

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35 comments

DiamondRN profile image

DiamondRN 6 years ago from Charlotte, NC USA

You KNOW you have eternal life, if you regard Jesus as your you Lord and Savior. The proof is 1 John 5:13.

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." -1 John 5:13 (NIV)

I rest my case, Judah's Daughter!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi brother DiamondRN! AMEN and AMEN!! Your case confirms the TRUTH and may the Truth be told to ALL who will be believe!!! Praise God! We are FAM-I-LY!


Williamjordan profile image

Williamjordan 6 years ago from Houston TX

Great Hub if salvation is for all God's love is limitless great hub.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

AMEN, Williamjordan!! Salvation is for ALL and God's love is limitless!! It knows no bounds John 15:13 "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you." (John 15:13-14) We must be born again!! (John 3:7) Anyone whose been born, created by God, can be born again!! Praise Him forevermore!!! God bless you today!!


MarvinE. profile image

MarvinE. 6 years ago

Gloria a Dios. May God Continue Blessing You.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Si, Gloria a Dios, mi hermano! Gracias, MarvinE. Dios te bendiga!!


SwiftlyClean profile image

SwiftlyClean 6 years ago from Texas

Speak God's word and beleive.

Well written Judah's Daughter.

http://hubpages.com/travel/The-Holy-Land-Expereian

Praise Christ Jesus!

God Bless you!

Sharon Smith


coffeesnob 6 years ago

I guess I am just too simple -I am like the blind man - I was once blind and now I see...now I see....now I see

I am seated right now in the heavenlies with Christ. I am sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Nothing can change my position in Christ - nothing I did got me here and now that I am here (in Christ) nothing can take me away...I am His Forever.

Praise the Lord!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

SwiftlyClean, my sister ;-) I so loved the link you gave and recommend it to all who will view the awesome photos there and your tesimony of your experience. There is no greater love than the gift God gave to us ~ Himself!! We are in Him and He in us by faith now and forevermore. Praise Him for all eternity!! God bless you!!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi sister coffeesnob! Amen ~ Mark 10:15 "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all." You answered His call, sister, just like me and so many others; that's all it takes to be born again ~ trusting Him to fill us, teach us, guide us, lead us ~ He is the good Shepherd Who lays His life down for His sheep (John 10:11). We know His voice and He knows us and we follow Him wherever He goes (John 10:27). What a love ~ praise the Lord! God bless us all.


RevLady profile image

RevLady 6 years ago from Lantana, Florida

His love is so vast and all encompassing, man cannot comprehend it. The most we can do is accept or reject it. We choose to accept it.

Great meditation hub. Blessings to all in His name.

Forever His,


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

AMEN, RevLady. You stated it perfectly. God bless you in His marvelous love, JD


Royal Diadem 6 years ago

One of the problems with that westerner have is, we do not understand ancient eastern thinking the Bible is from the East. Therefore, we can only give an interpretation base on our western way of looking at things in the 21century my dear Calvanist sisters and brothers. It looks like at times that the Bible is contradicting itself this is the reason I place these scripture down. However, I believe that it is God’s will for all to be save or He would not have sent His Son Jesus to die for the whole world, so those who believe could have eternal life. However, it is for those who believe, I believe, and I try to the best of my ability to live like a person who believes in Jesus, but there are those who do not believe, well we all know what’s happens to them. However, God is a merciful God, He does not want none to perish, only those who will not believe on Jesus will perish.

Jude 4 King James Version

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 King James Version

9. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 22:14: “Many are called, but few are chosen.”

2 Timothy 2:20: “There are vessels of honor, and vessels of dishonor.”

There are many different interpretations to this protion of scripture.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

Great Hub!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you, sister Royal Diadem. I praise God that while you understand where “hyper-Calvanists” are coming from, you hold fast to the gospel of salvation for all who believe. In looking up the commentaries for the verses you listed I would like to share the following:

Jude 4 witnesses to the fulfillment of Peter's prophecy, "There are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained (rather as Greek, "forewritten," that is, announced beforehand by the apostle Peter's written prophecy) to this condemnation, ungodly men denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." Compare 2 Pet 2:1, "There shall be false teachers among you who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." Also Jude 17, 18 plainly refers to the very words of 2 Pet 3:3, "Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus; how they told you there should be mockers in the last time who should walk after their own ungodly lusts."

Even with the hyper-Calvanist doctrine of reprobation, which they define as follows: "the sovereign decision of God before creation to pass over some persons, in sorrow deciding not to save them and to punish them for their sins, and thereby to manifest his justice", the Bible says that when a person doesn't see fit to acknowlege God any longer, God gives them OVER to a reprobate mind (Rom 1:28). They are not "born that way".

1 Thes 5:9 God hath not appointed us (who believe) to wrath - As he hath the obstinately impenitent.

Mat 22:14 The many called (invited) embraces all who hear the gospel; the Jews and Gentiles of every land where the gospel is preached. The chosen are those who choose to accept. Cross-reference with Rev 17:14 “with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.” It’s interesting to note John 15:22 “If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.” In my hub “The Lamb’s Book of Life” I wrote about how it appears all ever born are initially written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, and until that time he/she rejects the gospel preached, they remain in it. Rejection of the gospel causes his/her name to be blotted out of the Book (in light of John 15:22 and many more passages).

2 Tim 2:20 In a great house-that is, the visible professing Christian Church (1 Tim 3:15). So the parable of the sweep-net (Mt 13:47-49) gathering together of every kind, good and bad: as the good and bad cannot be distinguished until the harvest (until the fruit is evident), so believers and unbelievers continue in the same Church, until the judgment makes the everlasting distinction.

I hope this helps minister to those who ponder on these passages, that they not teeter into hyper-Calvanist error. Lord, keep us on the right path of love to share the gospel tirelessly with all who will hear and grace them with saving faith. We, as You do not wish even one to be lost. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.


Sky321 profile image

Sky321 6 years ago from Canada

Hi Jd good job and also good selection of scriptures.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you, Sky321. There's two more hubs dealing with the doctrine of predestination (this time, using the Bible's accurate meaning) called "The Lamb's Book of Life" and "And the Books were Opened" (links are at the base of this hub). I pray all who read are enlightened and blessed, knowing God loves them with His very life!!


no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York

Our loving Father really intended all to be saved, a kind of universal wish, not possible because of His decision to allow us the dignity to decide for ourselves whether or not we would receive the gift so freely given for all. As individuals, we all are offered salvation through the foolishness of preaching. Hyper-calvinism is an effort, I believe, to get Christians turned from their Devine Mandate to preach to every soul and to give all an invitation to heaven. If it were true that it is already decided who was the elect and who were damned then why go through the trouble of witness? It becomes a tool of the Enemy to sow laziness (sin) into Christians, to sow pride (I am of the elect), judgmental spirit (I can see that you are not the elect), and so on and so on. If Satan can get this evil doctrine spread even further, then he can try to thwart God's purpose of "Go into the highways and hedges and compel them to come in." I stand with you against this doctrine sister. I have had such precious friends that I have contended with about this very thing. It really becomes a stubborn mindset and a template through which to sift so much. It is yet another battle we wage together in His name. I won't leave your side my fellow soldier, I promise. Don't ever think you are alone. The thought comes bid it "Begone! In the name of Jesus!"


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

I so appreciate your input, brother Bob. I asked a "hyper-Calvanist" about the great commission's purpose and his answer was "we preach the gospel, as we don't know if some listening might be the 'elect' appointed unto salvation". In a debate with one of them, he actually typed out 2 Pet 3:9 as follows: "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any [of the elect] to perish but for all [the elect] to come to repentance." They believe Jesus is delaying His return until the last baby is born that is predestined to be the elect, waiting for that one to come to repentance by irrestistable grace...I guess that means the babies born that are not predestined for heaven are filling up hell faster than one can blink an eye.

Adam and Eve were created without sin, but made the choice to sin and since then all ever born of man were born into sin. Truly God spared Noah and his family while destroying everyone else, but this was due to their sin - not pre-destination for hell. Hyper-Calvanists believe the elect cannot possibly lose salvation. People should read Ezekiel 18, which includes in v 25-27 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die. Again, when a wicked man turns away from his wickedness which he has committed and practices justice and righteousness, he will save his life." And v 32 states, "'For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,' declares the Lord GOD. 'Therefore, repent and live.'"

There's just far too much in the Word of God to refute hyper-Calvanism. This particular debater also believes the office of apostle and prophet have been done away and doesn't believe women should hold offices in the church...not to mention the keeping of all the Old Covenant commanments. Pride: "elect" pride, "male" pride, and "religious works" pride. God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble (James 4:6; 1 Pet 5:5).

I love you so much, brother ~ and Jesus loves every single one of His creation and we labor to spread His love through Word and deed, that all who will receive will believe and be saved. Today is the day of salvation!! God bless you!!


no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York

That's cuz yer my sissypoo. I think that as far as arguing is concerned this one is pretty clear cut and an easy debate all you can do is put it out there and let the words work. They will. Is your hand stuck to your sword yet? Mine is. I will not drop it. I love you too, sissypoo!


svetits profile image

svetits 6 years ago from United Kingdom

Wonderful hub Judah's daughter. That was rightly dividing the word of truth. The sceptre shall not depart from JUDAH, nor a lawgiver from between his feet,until Shiloh come; and unto Him shall the gathering of the people be.

Binding his foal unto the vine,and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: (Gen 49:9-10)

....Weep not: behold the LION of the tribe of JUDA the root of David had prevailed.....(Rev 5:5)

We have been redeemed, the entire world,let him who would come come. Jesus said he who comes to me I will in no wise cast out (John 6:37).

Yea I believe in predestination, but not the way Calvinists believe and teach it. Predestination is in the Bible but God predestinates by fore-knowledge which alot of people don't understand. I do not judge them for it is by the grace of God that I understand it.

God knows all those who would believe and be saved or else we can't ascribe omniscience to God, but God is omniscient (all knowing). Paul and Barnabas preached among the Gentiles and the scripture says as many as were ordained to eternal life believed (Acts 13:48).

He knows the end from the beginning, halleluyah. That's why the scriptures teach that Christ was slain from the foundation of the world, even before man was created (Rev 13:8).

God knew man would fall but He planned his redemption before the fall even happened, talk about love divine, that's it.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

svetits! AMEN - AMEN! "We have been redeemed, the entire world,let him who would come come. Jesus said he who comes to me I will in no wise cast out (John 6:37)...God knows all those who would believe and be saved or else we can't ascribe omniscience to God, but God is omniscient (all knowing)...He knows the end from the beginning, halleluyah. That's why the scriptures teach that Christ was slain from the foundation of the world, even before man was created (Rev 13:8). God knew man would fall but He planned his redemption before the fall even happened, talk about love divine, that's it." Beautifully said ~ God bless you!!


drpastorcarlotta profile image

drpastorcarlotta 6 years ago from BREAKOUT MINISTRIES, INC. KC

Very GOOD HUB Judah's Daughter!!! Blessings!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you, drpastorcarlotta! I appreciate your kind and encouraging comment. Bless your heart. Luv U, sister!!


BLACKANDGOLDJACK profile image

BLACKANDGOLDJACK 5 years ago from Blitzburgh area

Another excellent hub, Judah’s Daughter. I have read your other hubs on predestination and election, but I did so quickly, and will read them again, carefully, and will probably have some comments and questions.

A tulip is a beautiful flower, but TULIP doesn’t work for me as a doctrine, either.

Predestination and election apparently are difficult concepts to grasp. I have had conversations with numerous religionocrats from many different denominations who have attempted to explain predestination and election, none of whom, in my opinion, had much of a clue.

I like the way I explain it. But who doesn’t like their own meanderings?

Two dominant conflicting viewpoints developed concerning predestination and election one being Calvinism, and the other Arminianism. Simply put, Calvinists believe God chooses us, which is the cause of our faith. Arminians believe we choose God, which is the result of our faith.

So which is it? Why does it have to be one or the other? I think there is some truth in each viewpoint. God does choose some for His purpose. They don’t really have a choice in the matter. Like Jeremiah. Jeremiah 1:5, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” Jeremiah didn’t make a free will decision it doesn’t appear. God has chosen others like Saul/Paul and the 144,000 of Rev 7:4-14. These are God’s elect. But so are those who choose God. Those who hear the Gospel message and make a free will decision to believe and profess faith in Jesus Christ and His resurrection and repent. They then also become part of the elect.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Good commentary, BLACKANDGOLDJACK! God foreknows all things, and therefore, prophesies what will be based on that knowledge. It's when MAN decides s/he is 'chosen' and makes such a claim, then claims that God has predestined/willed the many to eternal hell without a choice, that makes me doubt the salvation of those who claim to be the 'chosen'! What a false gospel!!

God draws ALL men and yet we are given the choice to choose whom we will serve. We can't present ourselves as slaves of obedience to one of two masters, if there were no choice in the matter. Because Christ died for the sins of the whole world, that means everyone has equal opportunity to respond to that drawing of the Holy Spirit. In my hub "And the Books were Opened" I boldly state that I believe ALL names start out in the Lamb's Book of Life, for it is by choice to reject the LORD that our names are blotted out, according to the scriptures and sound conclusion. The TULIP gospel is 'another gospel', yet the drawing of the LORD shows we are all 'chosen' for salvation, yet given the choice in the matter, not all will choose God.

I liken it to the proposal of the Bridegroom; unless the Bride drinks of the cup of wine He presents, She can reject His proposal ~ amen? Amen.

I look forward to your feed-back on some of the other hubs regarding this subject. You are a blessing, brother.


PapawStan profile image

PapawStan 3 years ago

Part of the sermon out of "Hebrews 2," I heard Sunday Evening, our pastor made mention of this very thing. Why would God limit his love? Why did Jesus tell his Disciples to go into all the world and preach the Gospel Of Christ?

16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:16-20 KJV)

Kind of Goes against the WORD, doesn't it! Great Article, Good Sister!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 3 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Yes, I love your pastor as I love you, PapawStan ~ it's because the Spirit of the LORD is IN you and obviously in your pastor! "My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow Me" (John 10:27), saith the LORD our Shepherd (Ps 23:1; John 10:11, 14), amen!

Did you know that Mat 28:19, the very words of our LORD, were altered by the Catholic Church?

"The Baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the 2nd century (The Catholic Encyclopedia, 2, pg 263)"

In fact, the verse didn't mention baptism at all in its original text. It stated, "Go therefore into all the world and teach/make disciples of all nations in My name." We never ever see the Apostles baptizing in a three-fold title(s) throughout the New Testament. It was ALWAYS in the name of Jesus Christ or in the name of the Lord Jesus. No second witness to Mat 28:19 in its altered form; therefore, we are not to call it Truth (2 Cor 13:1).

Likewise, 1 John 5:7 (8) was altered as well, thus famously known as "the Johannine Comma" or "Comma Johannium") ~ the two pillars of the Catholic 'Trinity' have crumbled. You can read about this in my hub "THREE That Bear Record? (Mat 28:19 and 1 John 5:7)" http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/THREE-That...

Always more to feast on at the Lord's table. May we take out the leaven of His bread of Life! God bless you, brother!


Bill 3 years ago

Ok JD, like you suggested, I read this hub as well as the other hubs like the one on hardening Pharoh's heart and Jacob and Esau, etc. First of all, I want to tell you how wonderful you are and I am so glad to have found your hubs. I love how you dig in and let God's word come out in your writing. You don't seem to insert an unsupported opinion into it. Rather, you look at context as well as content. This, my friend, it of the utmost importance. So many people read God's word with little or no context and it can lead to false doctrine and misguided teachings. So, I want to thank you for your dilligence and proper hermenutics. I am glad to have found someone like you who tackles these tough subjects and doesn't just sweep them under the carpet.

Now, having said that I would like to say this: I read these hubs (the ones I mentioned above) to try to get a good argument (or strategy) to follow when discussing Calvinism with some friends of mine. These friends have adopted the The doctrines of Grace (or Calvinism, or Augustinianism, or whatever you want to call it) and believe it whole heartedly. I want to be able to show them that their interpretation of many of the verses used by Calvinists as "proof texts" are either misinterpreted or out of context or both. Because JD, you and I both know that the Calvinists do this. They insert things into God's word that just aren't there in many instances. In other words, they insert their own philosophy into a verse. But, I am finding it a little difficult to follow your pattern of writing and to put together a strategy/defense from these hubs. I am not complaining, not in the slightest. God forbid I do that since you put so much work into these hubs. Rather, I am pleading a little here. I am wanting you to put forth a hub that stabs right at the heart of T.U.L.I.P. Some of the aspects of TULIP I agree with (and I think you do as well) but much of it is a doctrine that is elitist at best and verges on blasphemy. It would be nice to have someone as knowledgable as yourself put together, in one hub, an outline of the Calvinist's proof texts and a refutaion of each. Trust me when I tell you I am one guy who debates his share in the calvinist ranks and I just want a concise game plan. So again, I am not criticizing you. Quite the contrary, I am saying thank you....... BUT, I would like to have a little more ammo that targets the heart of Calvinism. And, of course, you can always just say, "Bill, no way. You're crazy!" and I will definitely understand. Bottom line here, JD, is that I love God and want to defend his word and for some reason I feel like refuting Calvinism is important. Not sure why, I just do.

Anyway, thanks for listening and I appreciate all the work you've done. You have been a blessing to me.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 3 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Wow, brother Bill ~ I'm pleased you have read three of my hubs on Calvinism's darts regarding predestination (or double-predestination), the love/hate of Jacob & Esau and the hardening of Pharaoh's heart. My hub series, "The Lamb's Book of Life" and "And the Books Were Opened" will go into the Book of Life and "the books". As I mentioned before, since Revelation speaks of only those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life as saved, then how is it anyone's names can be blotted out? If I were to believe Calivinists, only the 'elect' are in the book from before they were born and could NEVER be blotted out! That's a pretty strong refutation, as well as Rom 11. Many of the scriptures I shared in my previous comments to you should also be useful proof-texts to refute their doctrines.

I have family members swayed into what they call 'reformed', rather than 'hyper' Calvinism. The defense they use is "Calvin wasn't a hyper-Calvinist!" So where did the 'hyper' come from? More doctrines of men, I suppose.

I will be happy to do further study, should you have specific 'darts' from your Calivinist friends for which I could assist in squelching. Frankly, the only exposure I've had to the doctrine is through my family and one of their previous pastors. That's what drove me to study and write these hubs in the first place. I had to return a theology book, however (they gave it to me because I love to 'dig into God's Word) because it was obviously infiltrated with Calvin's theology. Just give me the Bible, a concordance with Hebrew-Greek dictionaries and cross-references and I'm armed. However, it's truly the Holy Spirit that inspires us to go here ~ go there ~ He teaches us, amen.

I'm thankful I could be even a part of this arena God's called you to. I'm blessed! It's a blessing to have connected with you, brother.


Bill 3 years ago

Diddo (IRT your last sentence)...

When I first heard of Calvinism I wanted to see what it was all about so I dug in and learned as much as I could. This was only 7 or 8 months ago. Until then I had never even heard of it (I got saved in '98). As I dug in I started to believe much of it. But in the back of my mind I knew the consequences. I knew that if Unconditional Election were true then that made God arbitrary and seemingly unfair. I mean, how can God hold someone accountable for not being chosen due to no fault of their own?But everytime I started feeling that God was being unfair, the sovereignty of God would come to mind and so would Romans 9:19-23. I can't argue with Paul here. Basically, these verses say "God will do what God will do... and who are you to question Him". So, after reading these verses I was able to move on in my acceptance of Calvinism. But as I started reading scripture in the light of Calvinism, little verses started jumping out at me and didn't make sense if Calvinism were true.

For example: Matthew 19:23 "Then Jesus said to his disciples, Truly I tell you, it is difficult for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven..."

This may sound like a childish question but if God elects only some to salvation and they are assured entrance into heaven, then why would it be "difficult for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven"? I mean, if they are elected by God then there would be no difficulty about it, right? Doesn't make sense that God would elect someone then have difficulty getting that person into heaven. And there are more "little verses" like these but this will do to make my point.

But the thing that turned me away from Unconditional Election and Limited Atonement once and for all was this: One day I was speaking with a lady that was a diehard atheist and we got on the subject of God and the bible etc... After a long discussion she looked at me and said "You religious people are quacks and crack pots. You are fools." Let me tell you JD, I got mad. And the first thing that came to my mind to say was "Well lady, maybe you just aren't one of God's chosen people. Sucks to be you. See ya, wouldn't want to be ya!" BUT, I did NOT say that. I couldn't bring myself to say it. So instead, I said "Well Lady, maybe it's just that God has not drawn you yet. One day He will and it will be up to you to respond." It was right then that I realized the magnitude of unfairness in that doctrine. I just can't believe that God wouldn't give someone a chance to accept or reject Him. This happened not long ago and I've been on a quest to figure out scriptures like Romans 9 and so on. Romans 9 and many others, are so called "proof texts" that Calvinists use to validate their doctrine. This is why I asked you to help me by listing these "proof texts" and try to see where they are misinterpreting these verses. Not a small task as this debate has been going on since Augustine of Hippo published this prayer: "God, grant me what thou commandest, and command what thou wilt." In this prayer Augustine is saying that, without God's help, man is unable to do what god commands us to do (total depravity). This is what sparked the whole Palagian controversy and it continues to this day.

Anyway, just thought I'd tell you why I feel the need to refute this doctrine. Thanks for listening.

God Bless!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 3 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Bill, I very much appreciate listening to your HEART ~ LOVE; that's what it's all about! And if we, as IMPERFECT human beings can LOVE an Atheist, in that the Spirit of God's agape dwells in us, which causes us to 'check' what comes forth from our mouths ~ this is FRUIT. I have a dear friend from high school that was a walking Bible. I had such a crush on him then. Years and years later, we've connected on the social network (FB), only for my heart to hurt because he's now a die-hard Atheist! How love causes us to have patience, long-suffering, even take the insults! That's our Jesus! I haven't lost hope.

Your points made are very well-stated. I was thinking yesterday, how much Universalism and Calvinism have in common when it comes to 'free will', etc. I have another hubpages profile that I rarely attend to anymore, but I can tell you I spent my first two years on HubPages dealing with Universalists, and the hours of back and forth are there for the ministry to those drawn to them. Just look up Carrie Bradshaw here on HubPages and read away...

I will say this much. Once a person has responded to the drawing of the Holy Spirit and are truly 'born again', God's sovereignty, our bondsman/sonship ~ all those 'Potter'-'clay' passages apply. We have submitted ourselves to HIS will and Lordship. He will chastise us to teach us, and by His Spirit we will endure, unless we are truly not 'born again'. Many can wear the masks and even out-shine the truly born-again in the everyday appearances, even 'good' deeds, and that's why I believe God allows the fire to test each and every one of us. Only the saved will be tried seven times and come forth like gold (Job 23:10; Ps 12:6). While Universalists believe this 'fire' is in the afterlife, aka the Lake of Fire, they are deceived! That Lake of Fire is called 'the second death' (Rev 20:14) and up in vs. 4 we read the second death has no power over the saved. Are we saved by fire? No. We are proven by fire. Eph 2:8 doesn't say, "by grace you are saved through fire" ~ the two don't go together.

It appears to me the Holy Spirit is living in you, brother, and in that, your heart should be encouraged. You're walking in your calling for this appointed time. The Lord is teaching you by His Spirit. 1 John 2:27 comes to mind "As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." Yet, as your sister in our LORD, if perhaps my labors can come alongside yours (His labor), for the purpose and goal of delivering people from deceptive doctrines to bring them into humble salvation, I am honored.


Bill 3 years ago

Yes, I know about you as Carrie Bradshaw. A few years ago I was debating an Atheist friend of mine and were were writing our debate on paper. I found hubpages as a possible place to post our debates but it never happened. But I did fing you (Carrie Bradshaw) and began to read your debates with Jacobsladder and HellNo and so forth. I am Wepjr, if you remember. I actually conversed with you a little and sent you a copy of the debate I was having, it was entitled The Source of Morality. Anyway, I noticed how nasty those guys were and it was all I could do not to yell at them for being so rude. Eventually, I just stopped reading and went my own way. Fast forward 3 years or so, when I started looking into Calvinism, I remembered your debates with these guys and couldn't remember what, exactly, your debates were about (Calvinism, Universalism, etc). So, I revisited the posts and found out that you had changed you hub title to Judah's Daughter so I looked you up. And when I saw that you addressed these difficult topics I wanted to see what you had to say about some of this stuff. Most of it I have heard or seen in my studies of these doctrines but some I hadn't. Anyway, that's why i am conversing with you know. And, like Paul Harvey used to say, "Now you know the rest....of the story."


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 3 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Ah, Wepjr! No wonder I call you brother! Those were the days...I tell you, spening hours upon hours with their hositility gave me a taste of the 'hell' they don't believe in. I always say, indoctrination is a stronghold that's tougher to break than hearing the gospel for the first time without all of that indoctrination. Even I had shed indoctrination on some major, traditional teachings, which came by reading the Word and submitting to the teaching of the Holy Spirit. Universalists cannot claim they are 'saved', though they think some of them may be...as they wait for their salvation through the Lake of Fire. Why did Jesus die on the cross, if everyone is saved through the Lake of Fire? Makes no sense. They invalidate the cross.

Even Paul spent two years with Felix, to no avail...I realize that as Rom 1 tells us, there will come a time when one rebells so much, God's Spirit will no longer strive with them and He will literally hand them over (give them over) to their own wickedness (reprobate minds), and at that point, it may be impossible for them to repent ~ it appears to be a judgment, where their condemnation is sealed. Certainly, they won't be surprised when they enter the Lake of Fire ~ they will be shocked to find out there's no getting out.

You were a breath of fresh air, Wepjr (Bill) ~ and as ugly as those debates got, you can understand why I took the Light and moved it over to this page, Judah's Daughter. I'm so glad you found me here and we're connected in the Light. God bless you!


Bill 3 years ago

Thanks for the kind words. You have a gentle spirit and you like to encourage others. Two great qualities.

I added you as a friend on facebook. If I have a question or just want to hear your thoughts on a subject, is it ok to send you a message? I just have a feeling that I will want to discuss some things with you in the future.

Thanks for being a friend. I love the fact that you are well studied and have a desire to share. I mean, what's the sense in being a well studied follower of Christ if you are not going to share it and use it to help people?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 3 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

I'm glad we're connected on Facebook, too! Praise God! Of course, I'll do my best to be a sister-Berean to my brother, Bill! We can help each other and others with what we study together and glean from our LORD. God bless you, and thank YOU for being a friend!!

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