Let Us Now Speak of Biblical Giants and Watchers.

Anna Swann
Anna Swann
Chang Woo Gow
Chang Woo Gow
Pygmy and European
Pygmy and European

The bible tells us the story of Noah and the flood. It tells us first that the daughters of man looked good to some of the sons of god, and that they went down and mated with them.

Genesis 6: “And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years. “

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

It then seems to incidentally tell us that there were giants living on earth at the time, and afterword as well. Then it tells us the humans and sons of god had children together who became famous or influential people. God then says he sees all kinds of evil going on in the world, repents making mankind and sends a flood.

But there is another writer who tells us why god was angry, and does it in great detail. This writer was Enoch. Enoch was the great grandfather of Noah, and it is said that he was transported to heaven where he learned the future and heaven’s secrets. Enoch tells us the same story as the bible in its own way:

And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, 8 Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaq1el, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.”

Enoch tells us who these people are. And notice he calls them angels and not sons of god. This is an English translation of an Ethiopian translation or iteration of an old oral story. It was written around 300 BCE, which is three hundred years after the Jews chose their probable official works. It wasn’t included in 90BCE either when the Jewish Torah was official. It is called an apocryphal work, meaning of dubious authorship and content. The Christians did not adopt it either, except for a sect in Ethiopia where the text was found. We only have one other ancient copy written in Greek around 100 AD, and it is only fragments.

But Christians have been using it and hearing stories about it for centuries, and it has filtered in to some fundamentalist thinking in the US in particular. The watchers are of great interest to them as well as a race of giants. The imagination runs wild with it all for a lot of people. Some even equate the story with a great conspiracy. And some have even suggested the texts prove UFOs.

So I’ve done a lot of research on it all for some time now, just to see what all the fuss was about. I found out some interesting things.

let’s see what else Enoch has to say.

“And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.”

The bible mentions giants, but here Enoch tells us the giants are the sons and presumably daughters of man and angel. Enoch goes on to tell us that these angels teach the daughters of man to paint their faces, pick roots for charms and medicines. But their giant children begin to lay waste to the earth and have sex with animals as well as drinking blood.

But the amazing thing is the height of these people: “three thousand ells” That’s literally impossible. From my research on Hebrew measurement, an ell is about the same as a cubit: 18 inches. It is measured from the elbow to the wrist. 3000 ell would make these men 4500 feet tall. Talk about a tall tale.

However, most of the modern myths are about people who were from ten to thirty five feet tall. The bible even tells us about this in Deuteronomy 3:11

“For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.”

This would mean that unless Og just liked a lot of room, he was probably as much as 11 to 12 feet tall. Sure is better than 4500. But was it true? He could have been 8 or 9 feet tall and liked a lot of room, or Hebrews of the time could have been smaller than the average person now. Perhaps the cubit in those days was only 15 or 16 inches average. That would have still made that bed 11.25 feet long.

The Hebrews tell us they were told to kill a lot of giants along their way to the promised land: Numbers 13: 33

“And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

Deuteronomy 2 10The Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims;

11Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites called them Emims.

Emims means “dreaded ones,” And Anakim means “the long necked ones” in Hebrew.

So the children of the angels and man were still around after the flood? How is that possible? Yet god keeps telling the Jews to kill every last one of them, man woman and child. And somehow they do regardless of the fact that these people are supposed to be giants.

So while some like Enoch tell us the flood was primarily to get rid of the Nephilim (fallen ones) and their descendants, others tell a different story. The book of Jubilees is a text that goes along with Enoch. It tells us that god allowed some of the Nephilim to come back after the flood so they could test the new human race through idolatry, the occult, and other sins until the final Judgment. So we have our answer.

Well not so fast. The other side of this comes from the Quran and Pope Clementine of the 3rd century. Both claim that the “fallen ones” are sons of Seth, the third son of Adam and Eve. They rebelled against god by coming down off a mountain to mate with the daughters of Cain. Even the Ethiopian Orthodox Church that uses Enoch as part of their official books tells us the fallen ones were the sons of Seth. The sons of Seth had lived on the mountain away from the Canaanites. They were loved by god and considered his sons. Hence the reference to the sons of god. The word Nephilim means fallen ones. That does not automatically mean fallen angels. Judaism itself says the Hebrew word Elohiym, which is translated as meaning god, actually means: power or powerful one. The words that were translated to English as sons of god are actually used to mean sons of nobles, sons of rulers, or sons of judges, depending on the Hebrew text the phrase appears in.

Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Jews will tell you that angels do not mate. It is impossible because they are spirits. But Enoch tells us that they can, but god did not make mates for them because they lived in heaven and had all the pleasures of heaven for eternity, so did not need sex. He made mates for mankind because they were not immortal and he wanted to give them woman and children to give them as much happiness as he could. However, once the angels came to earth they couldn’t stop having sex ,and seemed to like it here better than heaven.

The Watchers are an interesting idea. In fact, Enoch tells us they are certain class of angel. The word translated as Watcher in Hebrew means: to be awake. They are sentinels of heaven according to the Jews. Enoch calls them the Grigori. He tells us that 200 of them were sent to earth to watch mankind.

In the real sense of the word they were satans. The word in Hebrew means accuser, not evil one. They were accusers working for god. Like spys, they were to watch mankind and report back to god when we sinned. But all two hundred ended up doing the sinning, and were all imprisoned in the dark forever.

But then The Book of Jubilees tells us some were set free again to tempt us until the final judgement. After all, only their children were mortal. They were angels and couldn’t be drowned by a flood. So it appears that when they came back they mated with woman again to create another race of giants which the Jews then had to wipe out themselves. Why not? They had nothing left to lose.

The Watchers themselves are the focus of many modern conspiracy theories about a race of demon men who want to rule the earth. The illuminate who want to corrupt mankind so we all go to hell.

They cite the fact many gods of Sumer and Babylon are depicted as giants. However common wisdom is that this was done to show the subject’s importance in the picture. Pre-renascence and early renascence art does the same thing with depictions of a religious nature. Kings of Egypt made gigantic statues of themselves to show how great they were. It didn’t mean they actually were giants.

The average human male is 5.6 to 6 feet tall. A person 7 or 8 feet tall seems monstrously large. There are a lot of pictures Fundamentalists put on the web to show that there are giants of ten feet tall. But none of them have proven to be more than slightly over 8 feet.

There are tribes in Africa were many of the men are 7 feet tall. One of the pictures on a lot of these sites is of Anna Swann. She was born in 1846 in Mill Brook, Nova Scotia. When she was 5 years old she was already 4 foot 8 inches. By 22 she was 7 foot 6 inches tall. Not 10. But in the picture on this page you can see how really big she looks compared to a contemporary woman of average height.

I also included Chang Woo Gow who traveled the world as the Chinese Giant in the mid 1800s. He looks really gigantic. He was 7 feet 9 inches. They were healthy people. These days a lot of basketball players are well over 7 feet. It isn’t hard to see that a race of people close to slightly above 7 feet tall compared to a race of people just over 5 feet tall would seem like a massive difference if you were contemplating the fact that you would soon be in battle with them .

So let’s look at the most famous giant from David and Goliath from 1 Samuel. Goliath seems to grow with the ages. First century writer Josephus tells us he was 4 cubits and a span. That would make him 6 foot 9 inches. Not even a full 7 feet. The Septuagint manuscripts tell us the same thing. When we found the dead sea scrolls, which give us the oldest record of 1 Samuel it tells us the same thing: 6 foot 9. But read today’s manuscript of 1 Samuel and he becomes 6 cubits and a span, or ten feet tall. What a difference.

King James, 1 Samuel 17:4 “And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.”

Septuagint, Kings 1 Chapter 17:4 And there went forth a mighty man out of the army of the Philistines, Goliath, by name, out of Geth, his height was four cubits and a span.

Who are we to believe? I’ll go with the people who wrote the early versions. Human nature embellishes these kinds of stories. Every time someone tells you about the big fish that got away it becomes bigger with each telling. So let’s say Goliath was just under 7 feet tall. He’s not the giant we were led to believe he was. We can probably say the same for the rest of the giants in the bible.

It is also funny that neither the Babylonian texts nor the Sumerian texts tell of giants, and yet they lived in the same region. I think their silence on the subject speaks volumes.

The last version of Genesis 6 I want to show you is an English translation from the Hebrew bible where the authors have tried not to interpret the words, but rather give it to us in its raw form. This differs a bit from even other Hebrew to English translations:

“1 And it came to pass that the human began to increase in number upon the face of the ground and caused to bring forth daughters for them, 2 and the sons of the “Elohiym [Powers]” saw the daughters of the human that they were functional and took for them the women from which they chose, 3 and “YHWH [He exists]” said my wind will not moderate in the human to a distant time whereas he is flesh and his days will exist a hundred and ten years, 4 the “Nephilim [Fallen ones]” existed in the land in the days of them and also afterward, when the sons of the “Elohiym [Powers]” come to the daughters of the human and they brought forth to them, they are the courageous ones which are from a distant time, men of the title,”

Notice anything odd? No giants. King James and others translated Nephilim as meaning giants. It means the fallen ones. The Hebrews make it easy for us. The sons of god which appeared in the King James version are gone too. These are the sons of powers. YHWH means he exists. They would have said sons of He exists if that’s what they meant. But they say sons of powers.

We get a completely different story here. It tells us the fallen ones existed in the land at that time and also after that time. Then it tells us that the sons of powers produced children with the daughters of men who became the courageous ones from a distant time, who were men of title.

So what does this do for the sons of Seth? After all, Seth was the third son of Adam and Eve. At first glance it looks like we are into a twilight zone. Who could have been the men from a distant time who were men of title before the sons of Seth? No one was around before Adam.

But I think we have to look at it another way. It looks like it could be a scribe’s note. He is implying that he is writing this at a future time, and the children born to the sons of title and daughters of man are the men people in his time think of as the courageous ones or heroes of the distance past. Men who held titles.

We are not told here that the sons of the fallen ones went to the daughters of man, but rather they existed on the earth when the sons of powers went to the daughters of man. Do we have one thought going in these passages or several stories running concurrently? Are the fallen ones the target of the flood? No.

5 and “YHWH [He exists]” saw that the dysfunctions of the human in the land was abundant and all of the thought of inventions of his heart was only dysfunctional all of the day, 6 and “YHWH [He exists]” was comforted given that he made the human in the land and he distressed himself to his heart, 7 and “YHWH [He exists]” said, I will wipe away the human which I fattened from upon the face of the ground, from the human as well as the beast as well as the treader and also the flyer of the sky given that I was comforted given that I made them,”

He is clearly after the humans. It’s like the author or scribe is setting the scene. There came a time when there were a lot of humans on earth. The fallen ones already existed, and continued to exist after those days. It was the time when the sons of men of title came down the mountain to take wives from the ordinary population. God told them it wasn’t a really good idea because they were not immortal and weren’t going to be around long anyway. Then he takes a good look at the state of the human race and decides that it has become corrupt and he makes plans to drown them all, though he is heartbroken about it.

Could the sons of Seth be the sons of men of title? Apparently they lived well up in the mountains, and they rebelled against their traditions and parents, and mated with Canaanites. If so who were the fallen ones? And how could they have become the courageous ones which are from a distant time, men of the title?

But there is but one family that survives; Noah’s family and his sons. Could this mean that Noah was a son of the mix of Seth’s clan and a Canaanite woman? Does the scribe mean that through Noah the line of that mix became the kings and nobility of the world after the flood? Where else would they come from?

In any case, no Hebrew translation mentions giants.

Enoch has spawned a couple of interesting theories. One is that of aliens. Chariots of the Gods was written in 1968 by Erich von Däniken. While most of his claims about ancient artefacts depicting aliens have been proven false, his book made people think and it became the springboard for science fiction writers. One idea is that aliens came to earth and genetically engineered us, and then actually mated with human woman once they have seen what they had done, creating an even more advanced hominoid race than had existed before they came. This assumes they didn’t have any of their own woman with them and were probably here for years. It has even been postulated that the burning bush could be an alien speaker system. Fire can be used to transmit sound like a speaker. The aliens might have had a technology that could mimic that.

So perhaps the bible is telling us that the leader of these aliens, who we think of as god, wasn’t happy with them and punished them? Perhaps the fact that he stopped talking to people like Moses is due to the mission ending ? Perhaps he thought giving this primitive society a religion would help unify and strengthen it, as well give Moses authority for bringing changes to his culture?

The other most common conspiracy theory is a variation on the idea that the watchers are actually the people in power. That they have always been the kings of the world, that globalization is their idea so they can rule as one and destroy all opposition. Then, of course, destroy mankind and the world and send us all to hell.

Young earth creationists love Enoch because they think giants in the past somehow destroys the notion of evolution. But of course that is nonsense. Even if they could prove that there were a race of giants on the earth it might alter evolution theory, but certainly wouldn’t hurt it let alone prove it false. Creationists also seem to have no problem falsifying evidence. A picture was circulated a few years back of a skeleton found that was 36 feet tall. Turns out it was an entry in a Photoshop contest.

Amazing what one can do with Photoshop and other picture editors these days. You really can’t trust photos anymore.

So are aliens or angels, evil and good, watching over us or still checking in with god? Or are they plotting to overthrow the world and destroy us? Were there really giants over ten feet tall roaming the earth 8 thousand years ago?

You can decide yourself. But I doubt all three. Humans have more than enough imagination to account for such stories. But reading the ancient literature is always fun and educational.

More by this Author

  • There Is an Exception to Every Rule
    7

    There is a big problem with some sayings that seem perfectly logical. Let’s look at this common example: There is an exception to every rule. Most people would just start thinking of all the rules they can recall...

  • The Bible and the Oppression of Women
    109

    The feminist movement has made a lot of inroads in the last century, but it is difficult to fight literally centuries of being considered inferior and even evil by men in society. It is even harder to fight the...

  • Venting your plumbing
    21

    This essay is on the importance of venting a drainage system, the consequences of not doing so, and how to fix it.


20 comments

Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

As always, very interesting. :) I always take away something from your hubs that I didn't already know. Enoch sounded so familiar to me, and I know that the Catholic Bible includes several of the aprocryphal books. I had to actually look to be sure that one wasn't in there. Indeed, it is not and I had confused it with Sirach.

Great hub.


Pcunix profile image

Pcunix 5 years ago from SE MA

I wonder if any of this is ancient tales of Neanderthals.. not necessarily giant, but more heavily boned and muscled. We did breed with them and may very well have committed genocide too.


Slarty O'Brian profile image

Slarty O'Brian 5 years ago from Canada Author

Motown2Chitown

History is wonderful. You should read all the old books that were around in the early days of Christianity. Many people have no idea where their beliefs come from. Enoch is not taught by any standard Christian faith, and yet it is part of what people believe and they don't know why.

But all these books are out there, and some are a really fun and educational read. ;)


Slarty O'Brian profile image

Slarty O'Brian 5 years ago from Canada Author

Pcunix

That's not out of the question. It's almost impossible to tell when these stories originated and how often and to what degree they changed. They could be oral tales told at campfires in the region 40000 years ago. They may have some historic components and they may be completely metaphoric. We will likely never know who came down the mountain to mate with the daughters of man. We may never know if it is even an account of something that actually happened or not. But I think it is fun to read this stuff and realize just how much people don't know about why they believe what they believe.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines

Delightful and fascinating romp through interpretation, creativity and mistranslation. We humans are notorious for being creative.

I have thought a lot about Genesis over the last decade, particularly Genesis 6. Was there any truth behind the story? Like a lot of myths, the source for the story may look very little like the modern version of the tale.

Imagine for a moment seeing something you've never seen before. Or imagine being told something for which you do not have the words. The storyteller has to "dumb down" the story to terms you can understand. For instance, the story of Athena's birth may be a recounting of the destruction of Atlantis and the survival of its refugees. Taken to its logical conclusion, the swallowing of Metis (Atlantis?) and the springing forth of Athena full grown (fully mature civilization of refugees) seem to indicate that Atlantis was a matriarchal society, at least in its last days. The putative descendants of these refugees all spoke agglutinative languages and had egalitarian or matriarchal societies -- Basques, Etruscans, Georgians, Sumerians, Dravidians and Mon-Khmer, as well as many Native American tribes of North America. And in Georgian, one remaining clue of past matriarchy is their words for father (mama) and mother (deda), because in some instances, when the children of Atlantis switched from matriarchy to patriarchy, the term stayed with the role rather than the gender. Mothers had been rulers, and now men became the new mothers. We also see this between Basque and Etruscan.

Was there any truth behind the Genesis 6 story? Why would God destroy all of humanity, except for breeding stock to start over again? To answer that, we need to understand what was important to God. There are many clues to this. But ordinary "wickedness" and "violence" are far from the answer, otherwise we would have had hundreds of Floods since the one of Noah.

Could it be that the "fallen ones" were the ones who had eaten the forbidden fruit? And that was no apple! Perhaps it was a conceptual matrix of dichotomies forming the fabric of ego. How else could a child of God -- an angel of the most high -- become trapped in mortality? And could it be that God's purpose was to free His children from the trap?

Genesis 1:26 tells us that God created Man in His own image -- that of a spiritual, immortal source of creation -- baby gods. Jesus tells his brash enemies the same thing, when he reminds them that "ye are gods," and that they can do the miracles he did and even greater ones.

So, why the Flood? Could it be that something jeopardized God's plan to free his children from mortal bondage? What could have jeopardized that plan?

How can sleeping immortals awaken spiritually? If they are trapped in a matrix of dichotomies (good-bad, right-wrong, generous-selfish, wise-stupid, compassionate-indifferent, victim-perpetrator, and many more), then they need stable consciousness and enough free time to pursue such concepts. Enter Homo sapiens (Genesis 2:7). Later, we have the hope of creating civilization which would give humanity the free time to pursue such ideas. Something must have threatened the creation of civilization.

But when was the Flood supposed to have happened? Creationists are no help, here. They take everything too literally. There are many clues in Genesis. I'll mention just a few. For one, the outrageous longevity of the early patriarchs is too short! If you add up all of the literal ages, you get something like 4004 BC, according to Archbishop Ussher. But science tells us that humanity has been around for at least 200,000 years. We need a factor to multiply those ages to get the real years. Genesis 5:2 tells us that Adam was both male and female. Could each of the patriarchs have been both an individual and an eponymous tribe? The patriarch lived for a normal number of human years, but the tribe lived for far longer.

With the proper clues (something from my upcoming book), we learn that Noah's Flood occurred approximately 27,970 BC. From science we also learn that one species ceased to exist about 28,000 BC -- Homo neanderthalensis. Were these the "daughters of men" -- the ones who looked enough like Man to be called "man?" And if Neanderthals were incapable of producing civilization, would this be the wickedness which acted to thwart the purpose of God -- the salvation of His children? Such would indeed be a wickedness requiring cleansing the earth. The bodies of humans mean nothing, when God is really after awakening his spiritual children -- the quiet, still voice we hear inside when we tell our own egos to take a hike.

And the sons of God found the daughters of men to be fair and took them as wives. The result was a corruption of flesh on a deeply genetic level.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

Lengthy hub ~ sorry for the lengthy comment...We have pre-flood and post-flood 'giants', the pre-flood much larger (according to the book of Enoch) than the post-flood (according to the Bible). As far as Goliath goes, since David was but a youth, I'm sure his stature was intimidating.

As you know the Nephilim were the offspring of the 'sons of God' (angels) and the daughters of men. The 'sons of God' (angels) were called Watchers. I'm not sure the Nephilim had sex with animals; I get the impression that men were 'sustaining' them food-wise, and could no longer, so they began to eat the animals and humans, drinking their blood. Who knows?

The sin of the angels began in the sixth generation from Adam, for it was in the 'days of Jared' who was the father of Enoch. Were they the descendants of Seth? The only passage that contradicts godly men marrying ungodly women with such a disastrous consequence is found in the NT (1 Cor 7:14), which states that the unbelieving spouse is sactified by the believer, else their children would be unclean.

I never knew the book of Jubilees mentioned God 'allowing' giants back on the earth. That's been a mystery. Part of the mystery might be in the definition of “Rapha” (the root of Rephaim). It means “dead, shades, ghosts, departed spirits, spirits of the dead” (Job 26:5; Isa 14:9; 26:14, 19). Enoch 15:8 states, “And now, the giants, who are proclaimed from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called.”

We certainly see evil spirits called 'Legion' possessing a man in Mark 5:9; we see the fallen cherubim possessing the king of Babylon (Is 14) and the king of Tyre (Ez 28). However, they are not ever called a 'giant' as were the Anakim and Rephaim. The father of them goes back to Arba, but who knows who fathered him?

If you look up the word 'elohim' in the Bible, it certainly includes angels, magistrates and mankind (spiritual mankind), so I wouldn't limit it to just mankind. And how is one to interpret, "they are the courageous ones which are from a distant time"? A time before perhaps? A different dimension? Just OOOOLLLDDD men? Where did they get the knowledge to share with mankind?

So God was clearly after the humans? Why then, were the Watchers imprisoned in darkness reserved for judgment? (1 Pet 3:19; 2 Pet 2:4; Jude 1:6)

The Biblical Hebrew mentions 'giants' (the English word); it is the Hebrew word 'Nephilim' (thus, why we call them such). The Strongs Exhaustive Concordance defines the word: giant or nphil {nef-eel'}; from naphal; properly, a feller, i.e. A bully or tyrant -- giant.

So now you have God as the leader of all aliens and believe in evolution, rather than creation. Interesting, yet biblically false. How can man become so reprobate as in the days of Noah and Lot, rather than more like God? You've got both new-age philosophers and same-sex partnerships that would mean the end of mankind if it 'evolved'. Monkeys and gorillas are still monkeys and gorillas.


graceomalley profile image

graceomalley 5 years ago

Now I finally know where the giants after the flood came from. The Book of Jubilees doesn't get anywhere near the amount of press as Enoch.

This hub was very good, very informative. When I think about physical size in something like the hand to hand combat of the ancient world, someone who was eight or nine feet tall would seem like a giant. For all intents and purposes they would be a giant - very difficult for a 5 1/2 to 6 foot person to defeat them. A fight with a person of this size would be overwhelming - something you would tell your grandchildren about, if you managed to survive.


Slarty O'Brian profile image

Slarty O'Brian 5 years ago from Canada Author

graceomalley

Right. And The Book of Jubilees is just one of many. I'm trying to do hub on the comprehensive history of Judaism. I'm reading many of the old texts to see what I can discover and then cross referencing to the Jewish take on their history and then the archeologists take.

So far I have realized something I had never thought of before. This is the story of one family and it's descendants, not an entire people if you get my meaning.

By contrast, Rome and Roman politics is about many families fighting for dominance and power.

Anyway, yes. The giants seemed bigger exactly because they were going in to hand to hand combat. I have little doubt that no giants were 35 feet tall. If you look at the pictures in this hub and realize these people were not even 8 feet tall and then look at the average person beside tem, they look like they are twice as tall. If the Jews were thinking the same thing, it is little wonder they embellished their size.

It is not just hight. Look at the stature of these people. They seem like an entirely different race.


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

That's a very interesting point that you make about the Jews and Rome, Slarty. I'm going to have to give that some thought.


Slarty O'Brian profile image

Slarty O'Brian 5 years ago from Canada Author

Well yes. It starts with Abraham. He has Issac. Issac who becomes Israel. He has 12 sons which become the twelve tribes of Israel. The twelve tribes descended from one person, really. But then there is the rivalry between the tribes and then the deportation of ten of the tribes by the Assyrians. Which left the tribe of Judah where the religion gets it's name, and then the destruction of the kingdom of Judah by the Babylonians 600 BCE.

But it is all the history of that one family. There were many other semitic families where Abraham was from. He was part of a tribe himself. But they are not involved.

One family that changed the religious nature of the world. It's astounding really and I never put it together before.


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

Don't forget that Abraham also had Ishmael...Isaac ultimately becoming the father of the Jews, and Ishmael the father of the Palestians. Ishmael being Abraham's illegitimate son with the slave Hagar - and God originally ordered that they be killed. But, Abraham pleaded and God agreed to let them both live - but said that there would forever be enmity between them and their clans. Think of that - the Jews and Palistians are brothers. And, sadly, for any believer who's ever actually read the OT, there will never be peace in the Middle East.


Slarty O'Brian profile image

Slarty O'Brian 5 years ago from Canada Author

Motown

Right. That's the point. Canaanite culture is Hebrew culture, and yet it was the land of Canaan that god promised to Israel. They were all from the same roots speaking Semitic languages. The Arabs are Semitic as well. It really always has been brother against brother down there for last 4000 years at least. Probably more like 4 to 7000 years.

But after reading to this point I have begun to change my mind about it all. I used to think Abraham was a real person. But now it turns out we are not sure. I discovered that there is also no evidence for a historical Moses as outlined in my most recent hub.

But David seems to have real historic roots, and of course he was King of the United Monarchy around 900 BCE. He united the Northern ten tribes with the two southern tribes. And that is when the stories of Abraham and Moses start appearing, and when Judaism and it's mythology was probably created. So far I'm thinking no earlier than 700 BCE.

I don't see the bible as prophetical in regard to the situation. I think it simply reflects the reality of it at the time. No god had to tell them there were problems between them and probably always would be. They demonized each other from the beginning and still do.

While it is evil to make a cartoon out of Allah, it is no problem for Arabs to make cartoons depicting Jews eating their babies.


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

I've never heard of that....but that's horrible! I would think that was horrible no matter who I was or what religion/faith I chose to follow! Ugh. :-(


Slarty O'Brian profile image

Slarty O'Brian 5 years ago from Canada Author

It is pretty disgusting. But I have seen those cartoons. Personally I think it is both their fault that they treat each other as they do. They have been fighting for so long neither wants to give concessions. The main problem with the Arabs is that they have a long memory. While we in the west fight wars with each other, a few years later we forgive and forget and help the other side rebuild.

But the Middle East remembers the crusades like they were yesterday. The only culture I can think of in the west that is close to the same mind set is Ireland and the 300 year "troubles" which still aren't over because neither side can completely forget or forgive. It's ingrained in their DNA.


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

That's a really good observation. My sister has always dated men of middle eastern descent and I agree with the whole long memory thing. Oddly enough, it means that they have all stayed her friends forever after the romantic relationships ended. My nephews are Chaldean. And, they're the same way...long memories and can hold a grudge till it squeals.

You're right about Ireland also...wow, I always get to thinking so much when I'm talking to you!


Slarty O'Brian profile image

Slarty O'Brian 5 years ago from Canada Author

Chaldean? Are you of Arab or Middle eat decent or just related by marriage? You don't have to answer that by the way.

And by the way, thank you for all the support recently. I'm not really all that smart though, just interested in the things I research. I just gather information and pass it on. ;)


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

Nah, I'm white as snow. LOL My background is Italian on my father's side and Brit/Scot on my mom's. I got the coloring from my mom - Ugh. And, my sister's is the same. Related only by marriage. :-)

And you're more than welcome. I enjoy your stuff a great deal (it keeps me from having to do my own research, right)? You are smarter than you think - or perhaps I should say wiser. Wisdom allows for differences of opinion and belief the way you do. Not to mention, I just love the way you don't judge. :-)


faithfulelect 4 years ago

you made a few mistranlations and also a problem with the nephilim you said they were fallen ones but this didn't mean fallen angels necessarily, true but thats not the translation you should have looked under. Fallen angels aka sons of God are the bene elohim. Now go and research that and wah la book of enoch = fact...


Slarty O'Brian profile image

Slarty O'Brian 4 years ago from Canada Author

I took my translations from Hebrew sources. Nephilim refer to the offspring of the sons of god and daughters of man.

Angels had nothing to do with it. Angels are just how Christianity twisted the Jewish faith. To the Jews they were sons of god, to the Christians they are a different creation as there is supposedly but one son of god. So I'm not sure how that makes Enoch a fact. To me it's just another amazing ancient fantasy.


spatsky 2 years ago

today's view of angels isn't exactly what the Bible must be describing. much of our modern ideas of angels came from Milton in Paradise Lost. Jewish Faith became twisted when it became organized. remember that the Jews were nomadic so when religion started writing, that's when meaning started to be lost in translation. Jews and Arabs are literally the same people ... sons of Abraham who must be a descendant of these historic Giants.

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working