God is Christ, and Christ is God: A Biblical Rebuttle to "God is not Christ and Christ is not God."

Author's Note:

Dear Reader, I hope you can forgive this being another long hub. But as the mountain of evidence kept growing, I kept adding. If you don't read it all, I understand. If you do, you get a Harlan's Hero Button!

Thanks For Reading!
- Harlan

Was Jesus God?

If I am wrong, I wish someone to tell me. Who wants to go through life wrong about something? That would be stupid; thus I am always open to be shown I am wrong, so long as you can prove you are right.

I know it is hard to change one's position of faith or accept something different from what you have been taught your whole life. I once demanded a man leave my property for what I thought was blasphemy. He told me, "That Easter was a pagan Goddess and she was celebrated 2000 years before Jesus was born." I got so mad, I aksed him to leave. Later, I decided to study it out for myself and that is when I discovered... he was right and I was wrong. OOPS! Maybe it was I who was whoring after false gods!

You may not believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and this writing may not convince you that Jesus Christ is God, however, at the very least you will have to admit that the Bible says Jesus Christ is God. The Bible has a way for shedding light on our understanding.


A Rebuttle to: Christ was NOT God.

Hubpages author, Apostle Jack has published an article titled: God is not Christ and Christ is Not God. The position of the title, does not change within the body of the work. It stays consistent. I read in the hubpages user files that if you disagreed with a hub, to write a hub about it and state your position, so I have.

My purpose is to show with Biblical scripture, that Jesus Christ was God. The Bible itself maintains that position. I have no intent or desire to attack Apostle Jack, and I fully agree and support some of his other writings. Please this is not a personal attack, aimed at Apostle Jack. Personally I like Apostle Jack. I just disagree with him due to the following scriptures.


Answering Some Questions...

I commented to Apostle Jack on his hub that I disagreed with him, and he asked me the following questions. I am going to address Jack's question sincerely. I have not personally asked Apostle Jack if he believes the Bible, but since he uses "biblical references" as evidence that Jesus was not God, one could reasonably conclude that he does regard the Bible to have some authority on the matter.

Apostle Jack Asks: If you can explain Who God's father is, that is what I want to know. Who is the father of God. Who did God pray to in John 17th Ch If according to you that Christ is God?

This is a good question, let us look at the nature of God; In Genesis11:6-7, God says... " And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. "

God said, "LET US GO...". Who is God talking to? Is he talking to God the Word? Or God the Holy Ghost? In Genesis, God is speaking to himself in a plural sense, He is clearly speaking to the Godhead. Biblically at this time, the Godhead consists of: The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. (I will discuss the Godhead more below).

God does not have a Father, He IS the father. I never said God had a father. What I said and maintain is - Jesus is God. What I see you saying is, you do not understand the nature of the Godhead. So let's unravel this mystery.

Celestial Spirits of the Almighty's Eternal Godhead
I've never heard of "Celestial Spirits of the Almighty's Eternal Godhead" before I read it on Apostle Jack's hub-poster/photo. Regardless, here Jack refers to Celestial Spirits... (plural) of the Almighty's Eternal Godhead. Which Celestial Spirits is he talking about? The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost? If he is, then he may be on the edge of answering his own question. However, if he is not - lets give him a little push, shall we?

<PUSH>

Jesus Christ Made the Worlds, Before He Was Born!

The very first verse of the Bible tells us:
In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth... Gensis 1:1.

Then, in the New Testament we read:

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds"; Heb.1:1-2.

Compare this with John 1:10, "He [Jesus] was in the world and the world was made by him..."

The very first verse of the Holy Bible tells us God made the heavens and the earth.Then we see in John and Hebrews, that Jesus made the world... How could that be? Jesus wasn't born for another 4000 years...unless he was God all along. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:1 & 14.
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:1 & 14.

Was Jesus God? Good Video! 5 min.

TRI-UNITY:

While the word Trinity is nowhere in the Bible, the existence of a Triune God is ever present. Understanding the triune nature of God, will answer ALL of Apostle Jack's questions. As men, we sometimes make understanding the triune nature of God harder than it needs to be. Essentially. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are each equally and eternally one true God.

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the father, the word, and the holy ghost, and these three are one." 1 John 5:7.

Created in God's Image...
As a human, you are a triune being. You are Mind, Body and Spirit, each part is necessary to be one; all 3 parts equally making up one person. Why is it so hard to understand God is a triune being? After all, we are created in HIS image.

God is an entity with 3 Personas, each Persona of the Godhead is equally God. Each is necessary, each is distinct, making one God. The three appear in a logical order. The Father is the unseen, omnipresent source of all being, revealed in, and by Jesus Christ the Son, experienced in us by the Holy Ghost. During the creation, God the Father is the mind, the universal designer; Christ the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Holy Ghost is the fulfillment making it reality.

Both the Old and New Testaments discuss the doctrine of One God, and a Triune God... lets compare a few verses.

Old Testament: One God
“For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; …I am the Lord; and there is none else.” - Isaiah 45:18

New Testament: One God
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble.”
- James 2:19

Old Testament: Triune God
“I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.” - Isaiah 48:16
In the above verse, God says He has been sent both by The Lord God (the Father) and by His Spirit ( the Holy Spirit).

New Testament: Triune God
The Lord Jesus said: “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.” (Father, Son and Holy Ghost in one verse) - John 15:26

We “see” God and His great salvation in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, then “experience” their reality by faith, through the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

“baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” - Matthew 28:19. Again, one God — three personages.

Old Testament:
The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. - Psalms 23:1

New Testament:
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. -John 10:7

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. -John 10:11


New Testament: Jesus is God
"For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father." - John 16:27-28.

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: John 17:1

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. - John 17:5

Did you catch that? Glorify me with thine own self which I had with you before the world was...

Jesus just said not only was he with God before the world was, but that he also possessed God's own glory...before the world was. Isn't that saying... I am God?

Apostle Jack contends that because Jesus is praying to the Father in John Ch.17, that Jesus is not God. However, in the very prayer in John Ch.17, Jesus says he possessed God's own glory. Granted, the verse by itself is not a powerful positional statement that Jesus is God in the flesh, however, add to it from the same book of John, verses 1:1 and 1:14 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." "... and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us..." It is now an iron clad position.



Nice Short Video with Good Solid Verses

Something More To Consider...

Why when someone is baptized, are they baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost? If the Son and the Holy Ghost are lesser in importance than the Father, why are they included at all? Why not just the Father? Could it be all three make up one God?

Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? - Proverbs 30:4

Apostle Jack asks a question:
My Father is greater than I, WHO IS GREATER THAN God if as you say that Christ is God?

This was Jesus saying that God the Father was greater than Jesus' the man. Jesus had not yet died for our sins. After Jesus died he conquered death and rose. He will never die again.

Who did Christ call Father at the age of 12 Luke 2 v 49
And the Word was God, and the Word became flesh... Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, who prayed to God the Father in heaven.

The bible says that God was in Christ, not that Christ was God 2 Cor. 5 v 18,19

Actually, the very verses you use to show Jesus was not God...say that God was Christ.

"And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Cor. 5:18,19.

If I am reconciling the world unto myself in Christ, then am I not Christ? Otherwise, who is Christ? How is Christ's death sufficient for the sins of the world if he was not God?


The Bible keeps on saying it...

Apostle Jack, the Bible clearly says Christ was God in both the old and new testaments.

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." - Isaiah 9:6

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. - Jeremiah 23:5,6.

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. - Psalms 2:7

Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. - Psalms 2:11

Now lets look at some verses from the New Testament...

Jesus claims to be one with God...

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." -Acts 20:28

Did you catch that? God, purchased his church... with His own blood. When did God do that? Something as big as God purchasing the church with HIS own blood would be specifically outlined in a Bible verse, wouldn't it? Oops... it just was.

So, who went around teaching that God purchased His church with His own blood?

Apostle Paul.



Is Apostle Jack the Last Apostle on Earth?
Is Apostle Jack the Last Apostle on Earth?

Is Apostle Jack the Last Apostle on Earth?

Personally, I do not know Jack Alvin Fossett, aka Apostle Jack. Nor have I any vendetta against him or malice toward him. Jack lays claim to being the last true apostle on earth. Surely the Mormons would love to hear about that. Mormonism teaches that the Apostle Paul is still alive roaming the earth, teaching Mormonism. Perhaps Apostle Jack could find Apostle Paul and together they could set the world straight, we could have a Jesus era revival!

If you're look at Apostle Jack's hubpage photo closely, you can read the following:

In Presentation of the Almighty's Created Godhead, My Apostleship, Authentic Christianity, Spiritual Celestial Existence, and the 7 Hidden Seals of BEV.'s

Called, Taught, Prepared, and Now Sent Forth To and For World Population, Concerning the Unknown, the Unlearned, and the Unreavealed Knowledge of Our Existence.
For the Breaking of the Yoke, New Introduction of School.
The Final Har---t. (Unreadable letters)

The New Covernant. Until Now (Covenant misspelled?)

Birth-Right to Apostleship. Just a Messenger.

Major Apostle of the Anointed Celestial Spirits of the Almighty's Eternal Godhead, the Staff has been Passed, The Education Endowments From Him to My Spirit. The Last of the Majors, The Spirit Jack Alvin Fossett.
-------------------------------------------

If I understand correctly: God has personally selected Jack before birth, educated him (Jack) from His (God's) spirit, and sent him forth to the world concerning the unknown, the unlearned, and the unrevealed knowledge of our existence.


Called, Taught, Prepared, and Now Sent Forth...

Apostle Jack,
You claim to be the Last of the Majors, THE Major Apostle of the Anointed Celestial Spirits of the Almighty's Eternal Godhead; that you have been: Called, Taught, Prepared, and Sent Forth, that the Staff has been Passed, the Education Endowments from HIM to your Spirit, Your Birth-Right to Apostleship.

My Dear Friend Apostle Jack, The Bible Clearly States: Jesus IS God.

World Created By Jesus Christ...

"Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:" - Ephesians 3:8-9


Let's Ask Paul... "Paul, is Jesus, God?

"(Jesus Christ) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;" Collossians 1:14-19.

The Lamb of God, King of Kings, Lord of Lords

A few more verses showing Jesus is God...

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. -John 1:29

And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! - John 1:36

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:- 1Peter 1:19

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. -1Corinthians12:3

Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. - Romans 9:5

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. - Revelations 17:14

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. - Revelation 19:13-16

Question: Is God King of Kings and Lord of Lords? Or is Jesus Christ? One would reason God the Father is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, but the Bible says Jesus is. Then again, it also Jesus is God, this seems pretty consistent.



Having a higher calling and understanding, aren't all Apostles supposed to agree with one another? Apostles Paul and Thomas say, Jesus is God, but Apostle Jack says, "Jesus is NOT God."
Having a higher calling and understanding, aren't all Apostles supposed to agree with one another? Apostles Paul and Thomas say, Jesus is God, but Apostle Jack says, "Jesus is NOT God."

Apostle Paul Says Jesus IS God... So Does Apostle Thomas...

In Revelations 1:8 Jesus says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Apostle Jack...
Jesus just said, "I am Alpha and Omega... the Almighty."
Is Jesus blaspheming God? The Jews thought so... do you?

"Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." Isaiah 44:6

Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. Isaiah 44:8b.

Ever hear the term, Doubting Thomas? Know where it came from?
"And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." John 20:26-28.

Here we see Thomas calling Jesus God. WHOA NELLIE!... Thomas walked with Jesus for over 2 years. He learned from him every day, in person.

You say Jesus is not God.

So are we to believe then that Thomas, one of the orignal 12 hand-picked Apostles of Christ, having walked with Jesus for over two years, didn't know Jesus was not God?

Apostle Jack... Apostle Thomas, called Jesus, "God" and Jesus did not correct him on it. Thomas walked with Jesus when Jesus was on the earth in the flesh.

"And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep."

Jesus knows all things... how could that be if he is not God?
________________________________________________

I AM THAT I AM...

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. - Exodus 3:14

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am.

Then took they up stones to cast at him... John 8:57-9

Why do you think that was?
_______________________________________________



Really? Why?

"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?
he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;
and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" John 14:7-9


Mountains of Evidence! Lets look at Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
Romans 1:20 says God's attributes, power, and nature, can be clearly seen in creation. Has God left His fingerprints on creation? Of course He has.

Heb 1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. - Hebrews 1:1-12

Old Testament Prophesy of Christ's Crucifixion:
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. - Psalms 22:16-17.

God says HE is the Saviour:
Old Testament

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. -Isaiah 43:10-12

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. - Isaiah 45:22-23

JESUS CHRIST THE SAVIOUR I AM
New Testament

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. -John 14:6


Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; - Philippians 2:9-10

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. - Acts 4:10-12

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. [Hebrews 4:12]

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. [2 Timothy 2:15

THE FINAL NAIL IN THE CROSS!

Apostle Jack, We Have a Major Problem Here... If You Are Correct, You Have No Saviour, Nor Do ANY of US. We Are All Doomed, ALL IS LOST!

How?
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them,

Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

The Jews answered him, saying,

For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. - John 10:28 - 10:33

WHOA! If Jesus was not God - HE JUST SINNED!
Apostle Jack, you say Jesus is not God. If he is NOT God, then he is guilty of blasphemy against God for claiming to be God. He is guilty of sin, he is no longer sinless, neither can he pay the price for your sin or anyone else's, thus all is lost! YOU NO LONGER HAVE A SAVIOUR! NONE OF US DO!

However, my dear friend Apostle Jack, you are wrong and we can all relax. Though, having made all the claims about yourself as being called, prepared, sent unto the world by God himself, how the staff as been passed etc... You might want to double check on that.

After reading his work, I believe Apostle Jack has a strong heart and a deep love for God. Based on scripture, he is simply mistaken on who Jesus is. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15.

I caution anyone, not to be following out of ignorance!

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:23-24.


Hallelujah, Praise Jesus, He is Lord of All Things.
Thank you for reading, God Bless Everyone!

- Harlan

"Yea... hath God said Jesus is God? Surely, Jesus is not God..."
"Yea... hath God said Jesus is God? Surely, Jesus is not God..."

Apostle Paul said something else very interesting too...

"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Acts 20:29-30

After Reading this Hub, Can you see the Bible Does Say Jesus is God?

See results without voting

Mormonism teaches the Apostle Paul would live until Christs' return. Do you believe Apostle Paul is still alive on earth?

See results without voting

According to the Bible, not some religion, what is a Saint?

See results without voting

More by this Author


Comments 111 comments

Apostle Jack 5 years ago

It is all coming out in the wash.That,you can count on.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Dear Apostle Jack,

If Jesus is not God, then he has committed the sin of blasphemy and is no more a saviour than you or I. His followers worshipped Him all the time and Jesus condoned it. If he is NOT God he is a blasphemer. If Jesus is not God, then who is He that he can blaspheme against God and still save us from our sin?

- Harlan


glowingrocks profile image

glowingrocks 5 years ago from New York

Very nice job Harlan

Thanks for sharing with us.


Rebecca E. profile image

Rebecca E. 5 years ago from Canada

okay I wantto say that before I leave, this is a good hub which needs a re-reading, mostly because I have to digest the whole thing for a while to "get the power" of it.

That being said, great hub, I'll be back.


Apostle Jack profile image

Apostle Jack 5 years ago from Atlanta Ga

Thanks for your consideration.But yet,We cannot be on the same page with different beliefs.

You will have to read the "Whole Bible" word for word in order to get the full understanding.God lead me to read it 5 times from cover to cover to get where I am in His knowledge and Deity of understanding.

I read it first(the whole Bible)when I was 17,(I am 60 years old now)it took me 9 months to finish.

He took me through it again when i was 22(the whole Bible)page for page,and it took me 11 months to finish.

Again He had me to read the whole thing when I was 30.It took me 2 years.

And again He had me to read it(the whole Bible)when I was 40 it took me 3 years because He had me to translate it into subjects and categories according to what was said by each individual of the Bible on different topics.

And then when I was 55 I read it yet again,it took me 5 years to complete it,going through the same process as when He had me to read it when I was 40

Each time,He reveal to me more than I had learn the other 4 times.He showed me His deity.

My hubs is a testimony to those experiences,and He had me to write them down in a message according to (Daniel 12 v 4 )to world population...and,it is none negotiable.

Many people believe as you do,and many don't.I was sent to does that don't know,and want to be inform, not to those that reject being ministered to or refuse to be told because of their separate beliefs.

I respect everyones right to believe as they will.I will not argue nor force the issue ,and I will try to nor spend a lot of time doing so.To each his own.But,the time have come that the Dye is cast,but the hold disposing thereof, is of the lord.


wheelinallover profile image

wheelinallover 5 years ago from Central United States

Harlan I am with Apostle Jack on this one. If I do as my father does, have instant communication with him, and do only as he asks am I not one with him? The questions we can not answer as humans are, do we exist in some form before we are born and if so would we have the ability to create anything with guidance from "our father". Could not have Jesus have created the Earth just as described above? Why are there so many references to from my father or of my father if in fact he is both father and son? Philippians 2:9-10 -John 14:6 Acts 4:10-12 In John 16-4 he says that no man comes to the father except through me. You are free to believe that which you will. Best of luck to you


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Wheelinallover,

The points you made were and are again considered. Apostle Jack says, you have to take ALL of the Bible, and I agree... I completely agree. But I don't see how he is heeding his own advice. If you consider the following verses, you are forced to ask... ok - how do we get around this?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God,

John 1:10, "He [Jesus] was in the world and the world was made by him... and the word became flesh and dwelt among us. - John 1:14.

How do you explain that? If you know Jesus was not God - then explain to me when God's word became flesh... who was that flesh?

My bible says it was Jesus Christ - but if I have missed something please toss a brother a line here cause I'm sinking! I think the whole Bethlehem story with the Virgin Mother is a real good candidate, I might be wrong but... I think that solves the Word became flesh mystery... They called him Emmunuel which means... God with us. I wonder why they would call him that? Silly Jews - too many Sacramental Wine Coolers! (?)

Apostle Luke says Jesus is God.

Acts 20:28 - "feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." God purchased his church with HIS OWN BLOOD... hmmm maybe by dying for our sins on the cross?

Finally, the Jews were going to stone Jesus because he made himself to be God. If he was NOT God, then he was LYING to the Jews. If Jesus lied, that was a sin, and he would then be a sinner. If he sinned then he was not perfect and he could not die for the sins of the world - neither could he conquer death and rise from the grave - so all is lost.

So... help me out here. If you know Jesus is not God can you explain the examples I have just given you and help me around them? Cause where I am sitting today... I see no way around it. Either Jesus was God, or this life today is all there is for us, and maybe that is true too... I don't believe it, but I am not completely void of reason. Give me some good reasons how I am messed up, I'll change my mind.

- God bless brother,

- Thank you for posting...

- Harlan


Apostle Jack profile image

Apostle Jack 5 years ago from Atlanta Ga

It was a supernatural event that occurred in John 1 v 10 To take God out of context is to get the wrong message,and therefore going in the wrong direction.You have to turn around.What Christ said about Himself,and what others say about Him is 2 different concepts.

John 17th chapter is all about Christ explaining,confirming,and giving God the glory.In some cases it is not the one who said it,...but the one who wrote it down wrong....and in others...just plain, Misinterpretation.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Dear Jack,

>> What Christ said about Himself,and what others say about Him is 2 different concepts.


Apostle Jack 5 years ago

I see you don't have any more paper.So you have started writing on the desk.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

um... that is weird, the system seems to have parsed my answer... certainly that was not the whole of my post. I will try to repost my answer soon... I am making dinner atm.

- Best Wishes,

- Harlan


wheelinallover profile image

wheelinallover 5 years ago from Central United States

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. -John 14:6 I don't know where it is in the bible but it seems to me the Holy Spirit came unto Mary. I don't disagree that Jesus is the King of Kings or the Lord of Lords, it is my belief than he existed before he was born not as God but as his son. I also don't disagree that he is the great I am. There are enough references which say he created this world. I do however believe it was done with his Father's and the Holy spirits guidance. Three entities, one in purpose. Why would anyone say Father forgive them, they know not what they do if he was indeed the Father. Harlan I know that you are going to believe as you wish, no man can change another's mind in this area. It's a heart thing and can only be done by God. Again good luck to you..


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

I never said Jesus was GOD THE FATHER, I said he was God, meaning part of the Godhead. Jesus was the WORD of God who became flesh. The bible does not say - the Father became Flesh, it says the WORD became flesh. It says, In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God... and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. There are 3 that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost and these Three are one. Then in Revelation Jesus calls himself the Word of God. God is a 3 part being, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost. The Word left heaven, came to earth and became a human being - just like you and me - only without sin. We call him Emmanuel - God with us...

I think we believe closer alike than perhaps we have clarified upon.

Regardless, I am happy to have you visit and comment on my hubs. Thank you for that friend!

- Harlan


Apostle Jack 5 years ago

let me explain that to you .God spoke the words and made flesh become.God was the words in Christ.John 14 v 10 God was not Christ.

All things was made by the words of God because He spoke it.Christ clearly said that HE was not the word that was spoken by God, but was sent to speak the words of God that He spoke to Him Ps 33 v 6

God's words made Heaven and earth ,and not Christ. Heb 11 v 3

The Bible says that some people don't want to see the light because then they would have to rearrange their belief.Some have too much pride to believe anything but what they tell themselves.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Dear Apostle Jack,

You said: "John 17th chapter is all about Christ explaining,confirming,and giving God the glory. In some cases it is not the one who said it,...but the one who wrote it down wrong....and in others...just plain, Misinterpretation."

Below are several more verses that say Jesus is God from both the old and new testament. Most of these verses I have not used in my article above. I post them because I want to know are all of these verses also written down wrong and/ or misinterpreted?

Thank you,

---------

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do

appear. - Heb 11:3

---------

Old & New Testament

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. - Psalms 16:10

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. - Acts 2:27

-----------

Then saith Jesus unto him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10

-----------

And again, when [God] bringeth in the firstbegotten [Jesus] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 1:6

-----------

Old & New Testament:

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another... Isaiah 42:8

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

-----------

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, BELIEVED ON in the world, RECEIVED UP into glory."

-1 Timothy 3:16

-----------

"...CHRIST JESUS...being in the FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." -Philippians 2:5-8

----------

"Hereby perceive we the love of GOD, because he LAID DOWN HIS LIFE for us...-1 John 3:16

----------

"And they stoned Stephen, calling upon GOD, and saying, LORD JESUS, receive my spirit." -Acts 7:59

----------

"...CHRIST, who is the IMAGE OF GOD..."-II Corinthians 4:4

----------

"...glory of GOD in the FACE OF JESUS CHRIST."-II Corinthians 4:6

----------

"GOD...hath in these last days spoken unto us by his SON...who being the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON..."-Hebrews 1:1-3

----------

"For in [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."- Colossians 2:9

----------

"...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."-Matthew 1:23

----------

"The voice of him [John the Baptist] that crieth in the wilderness, PREPARE ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway FOR OUR GOD." - Isaiah 40:

----------

Are all these verses misinterpreted or written down wrong? How many are wrong and which ones are they?

Thank you,

- Harlan


Apostle Jack 5 years ago

God is within our spirits the same as He is in Christ.That is what unity of spirit is all about.It don't make us God just because we have God within us.And Christ is not God just because He have God within Him.He said so Himself.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

When we interpret the bible it is not a matter of how many times we have read it, but the process we use in the interpretation of what it is we seek to understand.

In the instance of John 1:1-2, we should first understand the Greek and Hebrew meanings of "word", and only then we can begin to understand what the verse is saying to us.

In the Hebrew definition from Strong's Concordance we can find many references that indicate a close relationship. They vary from "brother" to "mother", but the most important thing to understand is that of a close relationship. In this instance it indicates a unity that is familial.

In the Greek, the meaning of "word" is generally accepted by most biblical scholars today as "logos". Logos is listed in Strong's Concordance as "Divine Expression", so it helps me to think of it as roughly having the same meaning as "persona", or "essence" in today's english.

If we now read the verse with that understanding is becomes clear that Jesus Christ is of one essence with God the Father.

Another way to look at it is from the standpoint of a logo in today's english. If I say to you let's go to "the golden arches", then you are likely to realize right away that I am talking about McDonalds fast food chain. I never said McDonalds, but the meaning is clear because the double arches are synonymous with the hamburger chain.

Certainly the meaning of the John 1: 1-2 verse therefore is clear to indicate to us that Jesus was God, and therefore the Christ, which means "annointed one", who was prophesied in several Old Testament verses. Believing this, and that he resurrected is the foundation of Christian faith. This idea is also clear in most mainline denominations to include Catholicism, Anglican/Episcopalian, Methodist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran churches. Each of them recite a version of the Nicene Creed in the course of worship services. The creed affirms "We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one being with the Father."

The reason for the redundancies "God from God", and "Light from Light" etc. is to make clear the point that it is impossible to separate God from the divine nature of Jesus...They are the same, along with the Holy Spirit, and that is the foundation of belief in a triune God. Three manifestation, but one being. This is also the nature of mankind, and the reason we are assured that we are created in Gods image. We each have a brain, a body, and a spirit, or what some refer to as consciousness. Some like to think of H2o as another expression of how one thing, (element in this case) can add up to three separate manifestations. In liquid form it is water, in solid form ice, and it is steam in vapor (gas) form.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Coming of Age,

You make some good points. Another issue that is raised: Is whether you believe Jesus is God or not, is it a salvation issue? I have a good opinion about it, but I won't taint the discussion with it.

- THanks for your reply,

- Harlan


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Another Comment:

Aposle Jack writes: "Christ clearly said HE was not the word spoken by God, but was sent to speak the word that God spoke to him".....Psalm 33: 6, does not say or mean any such thing. The verse only says "By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth." (NIV) In this instance, the verse is speaking to creation having come about by the command of God. That is nothing like an exclamation from Jesus saying that he was not God, and I must point out also that the timeline is off. Psalms is much older than are the Gospels, so to understand who Jesus said he was, it is in the New Testament that we must look for our answer.

In John 14: 8 Phillip asks Jesus to show them the Father, and the reply we get from Jesus is: "Don't you know me Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me, has seen the Father. How can you say, 'show us the Father?' Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me?"

Clearly, Jesus was making plain that he and the Father are one in the same essence. In Greek, the word is "homoousios" (one essence, or one substance). There could be some "hair splitting" going here. As long as the understanding is that Jesus is of one mind and one Spirit with God, then we are in agreement.

Jesus was not an offspring of God, like children are an offspring of their parents, but was God incarnate, which means that he was God embodied in the flesh. When we read "Son of God" in scripture, we are reading a title,not a description like when we speak of our own children. Jesus was known by several other titles...."Son of Man", "Messiah", "King of the Jews", and "Lord". The title "Lord" is the key though, and from it we can easily determine exactly who he is, because Lord literally meant God, or the one supreme being/authority to Jews. Therefore when Jesus had Thomas to put his finger in the wound on his side after the ressurection, and said to Thomas "stop doubting and believe" Thomas made clear for all Christians exactly who Jesus is when he replied "My Lord, and my God." (John 20:28). Lord here is not a medieval land owner, or person of feudal authority, but literally Thomas knew Jesus to be God.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Hi Harlan, I do believe that it is a point of salvation because of two verses I can think of off hand...The first is Old Testament (Exodus 20:3) "You shall have no other Gods before me", and the second is New Testament verse John 3:16. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."

Once we realize that God and Jesus are one in the same, the question is really answered for us from the John 3:16 verse, with the caveat "Whosever believes".


Apostle Jack profile image

Apostle Jack 5 years ago from Atlanta Ga

Coming of age,the Father in me and i in the father don't indicate that Christ is God.He is clearly telling him that He and God is in unity with one another.They both say the same thing,have the same thought,the same purpose,they are one in the spirit.You don't quality to teach,you should be more of a listener.Because you have never read the whole bible,not even once tells how you don't know the whole story.He that leadeth into captivity shall himself go into captivity.The blind cannot lead the blind or they will both fall into the ditch.


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

Great work Harlan, thanks so much for taking the time to put this all together. Taken as a whole, is is indeed absurd to deny the Bible's clear testimony of the deity of Christ. How ironic then, that A. Jack accuses us of taking passages out of context. The biblical evidence is utterly convincing. May I suggest Harlan, the apologist James White from Alpha and Omega Ministries. If you haven't heard him, check out his Youtube channel. He's done an amazing amount of work concerning the deity of Christ in his debates with Muslims. May I just add as well, (you may have covered this, but I didn't see it) that the responses of the Pharisees are among some of the most compelling evidence for Christ claiming to be God? People like Apostle Jack can twist and reinterpret the words of Christ all they want, but the fact remains that the Jews of the day knew exactly what he was claiming to be, and tried to stone him for it on more than one occasion.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Hi again Harlan,

I don't think I need to point it out, but remember that we will know our brothers and sisters in Christ by the fruits they bear.

We are called to love all of Gods creation, so AJ needs our prayers, but I will not recognize false prophets for anything other than what they are.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

@ Jreuter...Excellent point!


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Here are several more biblical references that should drive point home:

John 5:18 "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."

John 8:24 "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you shall die in your sins."

John 8:58 "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

John 10:30-33 "I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

Col. 2:9 "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 5 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

Thanks Harlen for promoting truth here. Well done!

Satan attacked Jesus with Scripture because he knows it very well too. Notably better than Jack does. Jack uses uncertainty to nullify the certainty of Jesus Christ. He uses superiority in self knowledge to negate what Scripture says because our own misguided misunderstandings of Jesus Christ.

Having a relationship with Jesus Christ is not about proof to appease the Jack's of this world because the mind has been transformed; therefore, no proof is necessary as to who Jesus Christ is. Jack is only hindering those who don't really know Jesus Christ by feeding them uncertainty. Instead stand on the Good News of who Jesus Christ really is! Claim it! Shout it! Write it! with all certainty.

Jesus was led by the Holy Spirit so as to be not deceived by the application of Scripture by Satan. If one believes the lie when Satan quotes Scripture, that equates to deception period.

It is not what Scripture says that gives us salvation, but it is knowing Jesus Christ and who He truly is; otherwise, He does not know you.

I ask the question, how many people have been enslaved by Scripture? Many, the fallout is so many tortured and deceived souls. Satan loves this. Expose him!

Are there really any answers in the Bible or does it testify of the "Answer"? Jesus Christ is the testament of a loving God and is the only "Answer" period. Saying that God is not Christ and Christ is not God is blasphemous and irreverence toward the true nature of God. It will be met with the sword of Truth and sliced into worthless bits of spiritual detritus.

Any deviation is the nature of God is apostate. Apostle Jack does not know the real Jesus Christ (God), but believes an angel of light in disguise.

For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin. But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:2-3

Jack is not unique, an unsurprisingly, one of many who feed off the ones who do not eat solid food because they have not received the nutrition from that which is Faithful and True to grow into that which is faithful and true. When you are in Him, you know Him, who is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

Just as Apostle Paul named names, "Apostle Jack" is a false prophet and has been refuted and left to his own delusions.

“Just as bank tellers need a thorough knowledge of legitimate currency in order to spot counterfeit bills, so Christians need a thorough knowledge of the Bible in order to spot bogus religious teachings. How grounded are you in the Scriptures? How deep are your theological roots? How capable are you of detecting false teachings?”

~ Charles R. Swindoll


Unbelievable! 5 years ago

Jesus is not God; the Bible clearly supports that fact. You're free to believe what you want; I prefer truth. Truth is indisputable and does not need to rally public support.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 5 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

Unbelievable! why are you here disputing? You have just contradicted yourself as the bearer of indisputable truth. That is reserved only for Jesus Christ, Name above all names.

The indisputable Truth is inside of the real followers of Jesus Christ (Truth). That is what sets apart from the labels, pinners and spinners of religion. You see, a mere man cannot do this. You are only blowing smoke.

Again, only God Himself as Jesus Christ has the power to reveal the indisputable and absolute truth. Choosing to believe you is completely irrelevant to those who's minds already have been transformed by the grace of God (Jesus Christ). Until you receive that transformation, your truth will continue to be of a dualistic mindset distorting the true nature of God.

Your truth is disputable because you have used empty talk to promote your very own definition of truth.

("the Bible clearly supports that fact")

Mmmm....it seems your pomposity has exposed a vain comment.

It is obvious that you are proselytizing with your empty talk. We are left with nothing more than the sinking sand of delusion.


Apostle Jack 5 years ago

Unbelievable,I could not agree with you more.Jesus Christ is Not God.Tell th truth,and shame the Devil.It is written,for this they are Willingly ignorant of.They can't see for looking in the wrong place.


A M Werner profile image

A M Werner 5 years ago from West Allis

Just to add my two cents to the conversation - you might want to start by removing the word "God" altogether for it has become a blanket-word, covering way too much and still nothing at all. The whole idea of oneness gets quite confusing when we try to adapt the word to fit a nonexistant trinity theory. If you go to John 17:20-23, we become part of this "blanket-God" of oneness . . . that they also may be one in Us. (1Corinthians 12:14 'For the body is not one member, but many.') For anyone to lay down their own life for another is one thing, but to allow an only begotten Son to do it - that is something entirely different. The difference in the Father and the Son is seen clearly through obedience. John 6:38 'For I came down from heaven not to do Mine own will but the will of Him that sent Me.' The Son had a will of His own which He did not do, which He kept back in obedience to His Father's will. Hope that helps some. Peace


HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 5 years ago

Yep Jesus said he is the Son of God and also the Father

Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


Apostle Jack 5 years ago

If Jesus Christ created the world,who was the Son of Christ that he sent into the world.

The Bible is like it is so that only certain ones will get the light from it.Everyone don't qualify to teach.In John 14 v 9 Christ is speaking about the Spiritual Unity between Himself and the father.They both agree with the other because they are one in principal.How sad it is to take it other wise.

In marriage it is written that TWO shall be ONE flesh.I gust to some people it means that there will only be one body.It is sad.


ewd76 profile image

ewd76 5 years ago from Hanover, VA

The whole trinitarian vs unitarian(not Universalist) issue is pretty important too. It is tough when you've been raised in the "Three persons" tradition. I haven't read the whole post, so it may be addressed later, but it is clear to me upon reflection that God is indeed one entity as Muslims believe. The Holy Spirit and Jesus are just two different forms of his manifestation. Jesus really was God in the flesh, not separate at all or equal to "the father." What I can best describe is God by committee." God was merely manifesting himself as Jesus for our benefit and education and described in a way that most people can understand(Father, Son, and Holy Ghost), but Jesus was the same God, not part, while he was on Earth, just as he is in Heaven. I believe this is what is referred to as the Oneness doctrine, vs the Trinitarian doctrine. While I was baptized as a Trinitarian, I would call myself a Unitarian in this sense.


ewd76 profile image

ewd76 5 years ago from Hanover, VA

You should write a Hub addressing whether or not God can change what is sinful and what is holy. Such as if he decided that it would be better for people to go out killing everyone they could find instead of turning the other cheek. I just googled this and could not find a single result which referenced that topic. It's hard to believe that no one has addressed that ever.


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

You just described Modalism ewd76, a heresy that was refuted hundreds of years ago. The Bible, which is the authority upon which Harlan is drawing from, does not support modalism, nor unitarianism for that matter. The bottom line is this: We simply cannot use the Bible to support our own theological preferences. The Bible, and the Bible alone shapes our theology.


ewd76 profile image

ewd76 5 years ago from Hanover, VA

Anyway, having three "persons" and calling the group "God," is not monotheistic. The Jews and Muslims have it right on that one.


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

It most certainly is monotheistic. One God, comprised of three persons, who is yet one being. This is the testimony of scripture, and while I will admit that the concept of the trinity is not the easiest thing to grasp, it remains the testament of Scripture, the same scripture that continually repeats the refrain, "God is one."


ewd76 profile image

ewd76 5 years ago from Hanover, VA

It is said that Jesus is God. The Trinity implies that he is part of God. Saying that Jesus is God, and saying that he is part of God are two entirely different things.


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

Well, Jews reject the New Testament and Muslims contend (with no evidence) that it has been corrupted. Christians hold to the concept of Trinitarianism because that is what the New Testament teaches us. If we have the trinity taught in the N.T., the O.T. saying "God is one," are we to call God a liar? Or may it be that one's limited understanding of this concept fogs one's view of the truth? I can suggest an amazing book on this very topic if you are interested ewd76. I'm not going to act like it hasn't been something I've given a whole lot of thought too as well, or that I've never felt confusion by it. But I for one, appreciate the mystery of the nature of God, plus the idea that a divine being who loves relationship with his created order has, in essence, existed within a relational order within himself for eternity is a really cool concept.


ewd76 profile image

ewd76 5 years ago from Hanover, VA

I guess this is something which will remain debated until the end of time. What's the book by the way?


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

And may I say that I very much appreciate your demeanor ewd76. For whatever reason, the majority of people who disagree here end up being a bit nasty. Thanks for being so civil. I had better get back to a paper that is due tonight, but I'll be back later. God bless.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 5 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”

John 20:28-29

“Now we know that You know all things"

John 16:30 (the omniscience of Jesus)

"I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Mathew 28:20 (the omnipresence of Jesus)

“All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

Matthew 28:18 (the omnipotence of Jesus)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:1 (the eternality of Jesus Christ)

And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature

Hebrews 1:3 (Jesus is the image of God)

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Colossians 1:17 (Jesus has power over all things)

For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily

form.

Colossians 2:9 (Jesus is God in body)

This should drive the nail into the coffin of Jack's delusion of "God is not Christ and Christ is not God",

This is what the Father says of the Son,

But of the Son He says,“YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

Hebrews 1:8

As jreuter has said, the testimony of Scripture affirms who Jesus is.

The God of the OT has the same names that are applied to Jesus in the NT.


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

@ ewd76, "The Forgotten Trinity" by James White.


mojefballa profile image

mojefballa 5 years ago from Nigeria

very useful hub


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Understanding a triune God is only difficult if we choose to make it so. Most children can understand the idea when it is pointed out that people are constructed the same way (in his image). We have a brain, a body, and a soul. God is also a three fold being, but because he is God he can manifest each of the three characteristics separately. The Godhead is the architect of creation, Jesus is God in the flesh, and the Holy Spirit is the third essence of our triune God.

Here is an easy exercise to visualize "three-in-one": Get three small chunks of PlayDough (aproximately the same size)....One blue, one yellow, and one red. Take the blue and green chunks and knead them together. You now have two chunks.....One larger green chunk, and one red chunk, now knead the red chunk into the green one, and you'll get a finished chunk that is brownish.

To say that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are separate is not really a wrong concept, but it does not complete the picture, becuase like the PlayDough, they are also one. You will notice that you cannot now separate the the chunk of clay back into three colors. That is also true of the essence of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Saying that one is not the same as the other is an exercise in futility, and also why we may be "splitting hairs" here. Certainly all of those who are posting to this point agree that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Being omnipresent explains how Jesus could be both God and man on earth, and at the same time be of one essence with his Father in heaven. The scriptures certainly back the point, and that is abundantly clear from the posts.


ewd76 profile image

ewd76 5 years ago from Hanover, VA

So was the Burning Bush a manifestation of the Holy Spirit?


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

That's a good question, to answer it we need to look at the scriptures. Exodus 3:2 says that it was an "Angel of the Lord", and Acts 7:35 confirms it.


ewd76 profile image

ewd76 5 years ago from Hanover, VA

I guess what I mean is Exodus 3:4 where God is within the fire, rather than the actual fire, which is the angel. Is the entity which is called God in that verse, the Holy Spirit?


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Well, I can only give you my own interpretation....I believe that what the scripture means here is that God used the angel as an instrument to speak to Moses.

Theologians refer to this as a "theophany", or temporary manifestation of God.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

@ ewd76...I want to be clear, so I will say it this way; scripture says the "entity" in the bush was the "Angel of the Lord", and I believe the further meaning is that God spoke to Moses through the angel.

I don't think there is any reason for further separation of whether it was the the "Godhead", or Holy Spirit speaking through the angel. God is "triune" in composition, and therefore speaks with one supreme authority.


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

ewd76, we don't have enough evidence from the Old Testament to determine those specifics, but I do know that there is more than one passsage within the O.T. where the phrase "angel of the Lord" is in essence referring to God himself.


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

@Jreuter...Since you are a seminarian you may have a better grasp on this point but I still think that there is a distinction. If we look at Exodus 19:18, at the time that God gives Moses the commandments, God (in fire) decended unto Mount Sinai, and unlike with the burning bush, the entire mountain was engulfed in a cloud of smoke, and "trembled".

If we look at Matthew 1:20 an "angel of the Lord" appears to Joseph in a dream to let him know that Mary is with child. Why would there need to be a distinction in these instances if the author of the respective books means God, why bother to say angel of the Lord and not "the Lord"? In Exodus there is a big difference in the description of what takes place when it is an angel ~vs~ when God himself decends onto Sinai.


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

Where's my Harlan's Hero Button? I read the entire hub AND all the comments. :) Even voted in the poll.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Mowtown,

I think you deserve two buttons! I forgot how long this hub really is. WOW. You are my hero!

Thank you so much for reading

- Harlan


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 5 years ago from Chicago

I agree with you that Jesus is God Incarnate. That said, I read recently these words: "Rather than worry about who the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are to each other; worry about who they are to you."


SirDent 5 years ago

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

I was convinced before reading this hub. You have done well my brother in explaining who Christ really is.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Jesus-is-God

Notice in the scriptures I posted Jesus used the pronoun "I." He is saying He will raise Himself up after three days.

Some people just can't seem to follow things which are easily understood and simply explained.


KNOWLEDGESEEKER79 profile image

KNOWLEDGESEEKER79 5 years ago from APPOMATTOX V.A.

Wooooow Harlan this was a very long hub...sorry i didn't read everything but from whaat i skimmed through I found very interesting...I was confused about something...someone stated tht the thre is Father, the Word and The Holy Spirit, did I get that right...


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

@Knowledgeseeker79

Yes, the Holy Bible,(KJV)in John 1:1 says, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Then in verse 1:14 it says: And the word became flesh and dwelt among us. There is a mountain of verses in the Bible saying Jesus is God, here are just a few more.

Acts 20:28 - "feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily

form. - Colossians 2:9 (Jesus is God in body)

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another... Isaiah 42:8

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

These are just a couple examples of many. I know you have a different faith, but I too enjoy reading and knowing what other faiths believe.

- Best Wishes

-Harlan


KNOWLEDGESEEKER79 profile image

KNOWLEDGESEEKER79 5 years ago from APPOMATTOX V.A.

I find Christianity very confusing...So Jesus is god...So Jesus created Adam and Eve?...He gave birth to himself through a woman and then died for everyones sins?..So while he was in the womb, who was running the world and keeping everything on schedule such as the seasons and making sure all the animals and humans were provided for?


Apostle Jack profile image

Apostle Jack 5 years ago from Atlanta Ga

You are trying to interpret Christ as being God,that is why you are confused.For God so love the world that He sent His only begotten Son.Misinterpretation have cause many errors and distance from God concerning other ways that have been viewed.God is not Christ,and Christ is not God.They are spiritual God,and spiritual Son.One in knowledge and spirituality of principals,but 2 Celestial Bodies.

You grow as you know.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Knowledgeseeker79, Jack and I disagree on this point, and that disagreement is the reason I wrote this hub to begin with.

To understand the Christian God, think of it like this: You are a 3 part being. You are: body, mind and spirit. We are created in God's image, God is made up of three parts too. He is God the Father, (mind) God the Body (Jesus) and God the Spirit (Holy Ghost).

When you speak, Your word represents who you are in your mind, it is a reflection of YOU inside, Your words - are YOU.

When God speaks His word IS him. His word became flesh. Jesus said, I am the Alpha and Omega - he identified himself as the Word of God.

My friend Jack disagrees with me, but I care for him very much just the same. Agreement is not required to care for someone. And I would do anything for him given the wherewithal to do so. The same as for you or anyone.

Bless you,

- Harlan


Apostle Jack profile image

Apostle Jack 5 years ago from Atlanta Ga

The words that Christ spoke was given by God.Christ said that Himself when He said....these words are not mine.Christ told a lie if they were His words and not God's.The first Christians carried the same words passed on from God,through Christ,to the Apostles,to world population.The same words.He did not take glory from God to give to Himself.He did not glorify Himself.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Jack, how do you get around these verses with your position? I ask honestly, how?

I believe the following verses directly contradict your position... do they not?

You said Jesus did not glorify himself... well perhaps not, but he rightfully asked God the Father to Glorify Him with the Glory he already had...

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5

Jesus shared Glory with God before the world was - because before the World was, he was the Word ( and the word was God) - and we both know God created the world with his spoken word... let there be light... everything God created he spoke and it happened - this completely lines up with the verse,

"GOD...hath in these last days spoken unto us by his SON...who being the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON..."-Hebrews 1:1-3

Philip he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;

and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

John 14:7-9

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3

John 1:3 three being the key verse for this discussion.

If that does not suggest Jesus was God in the flesh...

I know not what does. We disagree on this for sure, for me to let go of this is to let go of my only hope for salvation. Without Jesus am I toast.. literally.

- In Christ, and God bless you...

- Harlan


Apostle Jack profile image

Apostle Jack 5 years ago from Atlanta Ga

You can see that there are 2 people,or spirits talking.If Christ and God were the same who was the father that they were talking to?

If God sent His Son,don't turn it around and say that God sent Himself.Someone told a lie,and I don't think that it was God.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 5 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

Apostle Jack,

I have touched on your very question in my hub, The Plurality and Duality of Jesus Christ, which may clarify your questions.


Apostle Jack profile image

Apostle Jack 5 years ago from Atlanta Ga

I know God and Jesus Christ Personally through Celestial Spirituality and the knowledge thereof.I don't speak assumptions...Maybe's...i think so....nor theories.I deliver.If you don't know about Celestial Spirituality,then,you don't have enough knowledge otherwise to reveal the hidden and the unknown.Your knowledge is materialistic,mine is spiritual and Celestial.

There is no comparison.


KNOWLEDGESEEKER79 profile image

KNOWLEDGESEEKER79 5 years ago from APPOMATTOX V.A.

Have any of you read the Gospel Of Barnabas? What is yall opinion of him?


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Jack, you do not quote one scripture or give any evidence of anything other than to say you are chosen at birth and have better access to God than everyone else.

I have a Bible verse for you regarding that.

"Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all

things that are commanded thee of God.

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." - Acts 10:33-35

God is no respecter of persons but accepts all who fear him and worketh righteousness.

By the way Jack, being the last Apostle, are you going to write The Gospel of Apostle Jack? I am hoping you will because I want to learn more about these celestial spirits you keep mentioning. I cannot find them in my Bible.

- best

- Harlan


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Knowledgeseeker79,

I have not read the Gospel of Barnabas. I don't believe I have heard of it. Where would one find it and what is it about essentially?

- Best

- Harlan


Apostle Jack 5 years ago

Evidence is first in the knowledge that I was given concerning Daniel 12 v 4

1 Cor 15 v 40,44 will tell you of what Celestial is of which I doubt you will understand,but it lets you know anyway.

You can read my hubs on the matter of Celestial Spirituality if you want to know more.

Certain ones are chosen for certain matters.You don't even have a title or know your calling in the Church.I claim what I know not what I assume.

I don't seek God or the reality of His Son Jesus Christ...I have already found them.All things will come according to Prophecy.But you don't even know where we are now and what is Predestine to happen at this very time nor what affects will take place because of it.

Yet,you are trying to teach when you are not call to do so.The harder the head.....the longer the road shall be for you.But I pray for the best for your spirit.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Jack,

Does not the Word sayeth, put forth the Word of God and it shall not return void? Is that not a call for all who believeth to sew the seed, and for some to water? You say I am not called to teach, and I answer not one way or another, rather defer, that not only I but all born again are called to witness and put forth the Word. No? Is not one's witness, a level of teaching?

I have read and will study further 1 Cor. 15. 40 - 44.

Thank you for your reply.

- Selah

- Harlan


Apostle Jack profile image

Apostle Jack 5 years ago from Atlanta Ga

Yes,we all have something to give.WE each are important to God.There are many pieces that make a puzzle.I am the smallest piece,but the last piece to be put into place.

Also read Daniel 12 v 4,7,9,10 as to where we are now...even as I speak.


jamescalculus profile image

jamescalculus 5 years ago from ukraine

harlan i totally agree with you that JESUS IS GOD....no one has revealed this to us except GOD HIMSELF...it's difficult for some minds to conceive the idea that JESUS IS GOD because many people try to reason GOD with HUMAN knowledge..luke 1 vs 37 says FOR WITH GOD NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE...JESUS IS GOD THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY ABOUT THAT.IT'S CLEAR .

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

now matthew 1;23 quotes this verse and says "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."

you can go on and argue why did jesus always use the refrence MY FATHER.....look at this analogy

for example apostle JACK gave a good illustration of how he has read the bible cover to cover 5 times.,at 17years,22years,30years,40 years and 55 years....can we say the person who read this bible at those different ages are different people or the same person manifested at different ages .so if we mere men can manifest in different forms and not change ,why is it IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD ALMIGHTY TO MANIFEST AS GOD THE FATHER,THE SON AND THE HOLYSPIRIT...HE IS THE SAME BUT MANIFESTING IN DIFFERENT FORMS FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES......PRAISE GOD.STAY BLESSED HARLAN


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Jamescalculus,

Thank you for your comments on this topic. God said in the last days he will send strong delusions. I believe we are in the last days, but I pray we are not in the days of strong delusions, not yet. Regardless, God knows best and I submit myself to that. Amen.

- In Christ

- Harlan


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

See, I believe God 'the Father' is invisible. The Bible says this over and over and over again. The Bible also says God is holy and God is Spirit. Therefore, I believe God the Father is the Holy Spirit, invisible and all powerful. I believe the Bible says clearly that Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God. One LORD, One GOD. He wasn't called 'Jesus' in the Old Testament. He is "I AM".

Why did God take on human flesh, rather than just appear in human form as He did to Abraham? Because the Bible says no flesh and BLOOD can inherit the kingdom of heaven. I therefore believe, that a mere 'form of man' manifestation of God could not DIE or shed BLOOD. God shed His OWN blood through the human flesh He chose to take on, named "Immanuel", "Yeshua".

I don't believe God is three 'persons' or three parts in one. I am an individual, made in His image. I am ONE PERSON. I have a spirit, a soul and a body. I have a mind, a heart and a will. I have flesh, blood and bone. How many sets of 'three' do I need? God manifested Himself in more than three ways in the Old Testament (clouds, fire, the Rock at Horeb, His Angel, a man to Abraham and Jacob, etc.) and Jews then and to this day never split God into 'persons' or 'parts'. Jesus is GOD. The scriptures become so much clearer when we understand this. I love you, brother ~ I just had to PREACH...


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Preach on sister, I completely agree, biblically speaking, Jesus is God no matter how you slice it, however some of the newer versions of the bible trade places with Jesus and Satan in the scriptures and that is scary to me.

Isaiah 14:12 in the NIV trades places with Jesus and Satan.

The editors, Wescott and Hort, of the NIV - in their own journals confess they deny the blood of Jesus, that is why they deleted it 44 times from their NIV bible.

It is also necessary in order to unite the world religions as one. Jesus said in the last days the religions would unite as one.

The only way for that to happen is for the same subtly that Satan used on Eve to be used on modern day Christians through new and diligently changed versions of the scriptures. There are over 100 versions of the bible but only one has a copyright that allows anyone to use it as much as they like. All the others will sue you if you try to share too much of "their" copyrighted scripture without paying the fee.

Well Praise God... are these not the last days?

- In Christ

- Harlan


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

You know, I've kept silent in these comments for the most part, but I am going to chime in here a minute. There is no denying after reading Scripture - with a FULL understanding of it - that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit - are three persons of the ONE TRUE GOD.

Having read the Bible cover to cover any number of times does not give one a full understanding of it. I say this because there is a chronological progression of the story that is left out with the way the individual books are ordered. If you don't know the chronological progression of say - where the Psalms fit in historically - then do you read it with full understanding? No. Once you've gone through the chronological story from Creation to Revelation and see where each of the other books fits in, you SEE automatically in the New Testament how Jesus is the fulfillment of the law and the prophets from the Old Testament. You also see the importance of the opening of the Gospel of John. Shoot, even without the rest of the Bible, the opening of John tells it like it is. " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word WAS God...And the Word was made FLESH, and dwelt among us..." JOHN himself said of Jesus "And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost."

How can anyone claiming Christianity read a single of those words, let alone ALL the words laid out in this hub and have one shred of doubt that God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are ONE? Who else but God can send the Spirit?

God IS three persons - ONE God. The difference between the Christian God and the one God of the Jews and Muslims is that our God IS fully God and has been FULLY man...giving Him an understanding of humanity the others cannot lay claim to.

Celestial spirituality aside, Apostle Jack, I think there's a bit of instability in the fact that you believe you are God's last appointed apostle. If you have been deceived by something this simple about our God, is it not possible that you have been deceived about other things as well? I do not demean or discourage you from spreading the word, but be careful that you spread the truth, and not the truth as it has been revealed to just you. Pray for a spirit of discernment that you are not misled by Satan when he disguises himself as an angel of light. Joseph Smith did that and as a result, Mormons no longer believe in original sin and think that we're all going to become gods in the end.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

I really appreciate your answer Mo. I think you make some good points. Thank you for responding. Regarding Mormonism, I have studied it extensively. Do you know in Satanism, there is a devil named Mormo? Interesting. Regardless, one of the major problems I have with that faith is it teaches a works salvation. A good Mormon is always working out his salvation. The Mormon Jesus did not pay for their sins on the cross, he merely paved the way - whatever that means. Mormon scripture says, "For we believe we are saved by grace, after all that we can do." I don't recall the cite on it off hand. There is a Mormon woman on here who runs an "ask me about Mormonism," forum. She posted a hub discussing how Mormonism is Christianity. I asked her why she believed that when her own prophet says, Mormonism is not Christianity, it is not anything close. Christianity was devised by the devil, it was hatched in hell and kicked upon the face of the earth." So I asked her how she explained that. - She never allowed my question to be posted. She completely ignored me like I don't exist. - Well praise the Lord.

- God Bless

- Harlan


Coming of Age profile image

Coming of Age 5 years ago from Rocky Mountains

Hi Harlan, thought I'd drop in and see how much farther this had gone, so I browsed through most of the comments to this point, and it struck me that the most profound comment came 2 weeks ago from my friend James A. Watkins....Here it is again:

{I agree with you that Jesus is God Incarnate. That said, I read recently these words: "Rather than worry about who the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are to each other; worry about who they are to you."}

There is something else I have noticed, and that is Jack appears to be genuinely passionate about serving God.


Apostle Jacck 5 years ago

In response to Motown:We are Celestial Spirits,unknowingly to you....one cannot put that aside.The time have come to show and tell,and you won't have to assume about my spirit.

To Harlan Colt:I honor your grace and zeal in seeking God,and it came to me in a lot of ways that the end justify the means.We don't agree on the issues of God,but you have been more considered in words than I have in communicating,but we both slung mud.So I think that we can do it without negativity.But still...there are many mountains and challenges yet to climb..and to face.


TheManWithNoPants profile image

TheManWithNoPants 5 years ago from Tucson, Az.

Harlan,

Very well put together. That was a lot of work my brother!

I've been a student of Theology for almost eleven years. I've learned more than I thought I was capable of. I've studied the greatest Theological minds in history, and the subject if the Trinity is still a mystery. Sometimes it Theology you dig and dig and dig until the hole is so deep, you can't see out. That's when I put down the shovel, grab the word, and get back to the basics. I've learned this; There are many things that I can explain without understanding, and often do, but there are certain special things that I understand, but can not explain. The Trinity is one of these things. I've found peace in the fact that I understand it, but will never be able to explain it.

good work bro.

jim


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

ManWithNoPants:

Thank you for the response. This has turned out to be one of my more successful and much longer hubs. As far as hubber advice to keep hubs within a reasonable length, this one breaks the rule for sure. But for those who find it interesting, I have received some great comments. Yours are much appreciated. Thank you and God bless you.

- Keep the Faith

- Harlan


Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews 5 years ago from NORTH YORK,ONTARIO,CANADA

It was a fairly long hub but well worth the reading as you touch on so many spiritually important points. Thank you.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Thank you Dave, I am glad you stopped by for the study lol.

I left some comments with one of your hubs earlier today. I hope to see you around as we hub-away.

- Best wishes

- Harlan


soumyasrajan 5 years ago from Mumbai India and often in USA

Hi! Harlan

An interesting article. You do follow scientific style of rationally trying to argue starting from basic beliefs (axioms). I liked pictures also specially first one of Christ -he looks very determined in that picture -quite different style.


TheWordOfAKing 5 years ago

Jack is hardly an apostle. What a pitiful excuse, even for a Christian. In 43 years he's only read his bible through 5 times. WOW, what a spiritual giant. My 13 year old has read it through that many times.

He's biblically illiterate. And if Apostate Jack doesn't believe that Jesus is God, he's not even saved.

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM he, ye shall die in your sins.

Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide HIMSELF a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

God said HE would be the one to be the substitute offering. Notice what was in the thickets? Apostate Jack may not have noticed in a mere 5 times through the bible in 43 years. It was a ram. The lamb came later (Jesus Christ).

Compare above verse with:

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jesus was on earth and in heaven AT THE SAME TIME according to the bible:

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

who did Paul persecute?

Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

So by comparing spiritual things with spiritual (1 Cor. 2:13) we see that persecuting the church was persecuting the Lord Jesus Christ.

The true God is revealed here:

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

May God help Apostate Jack to repent and believe in the true God.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

TheWordofaKing

I wrote a tract once entitled "Will the Real Jesus please stand up?" When I come across it I want to make it into a hub. I imagine it will get banned shortly after publication because it points out some serious flaws some of the cults have to deal with. We can't have that!

As for Apostle Jack, he says he was chosen from birth to be the last Apostle on earth. I googled Apostle and found there are a lot of guys in organized churches calling themselves Apostles. I'd never heard of such a thing before.

Thank you for your comments. I think we are on the same page regarding who Jesus is... we must read the same Bible Version. Perhaps there is a version out there where Jesus isn't God anymore... it wouldn't surprise me.

- God bless

- Harlan


Apostle Jack profile image

Apostle Jack 5 years ago from Atlanta Ga

For God so love the world that He SENT His only begotten son.That will never change just because most of the world have turn it around to believe that God came Himself,and did not send His Son.I don't believe in twisting the words of God to make it less than what it is.

Only a few shall enter into the kingdom of heaven of the world masses of population.Only a few have not change to a false doctrine and have not denied the deity of God.I do and shall remain with the few,seeing that most of the world is under false doctrine.


TheWordOfAKing 5 years ago

I'm not sure I would say there couldn't be such a thing as an apostle today. The standard argument is that there were no more apostles past the disciples. Problem is, Rev. 2:2 says:

"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"

The test would be, are you John (the last of the disciples at this point). And if the answer was no, well, he's no apostle. That's just silly. But I KNOW Apostate Jack aint no apostle. An apostle would have pure doctrine, not like this joker.

And you are right on the money with the bible version comment. If you don't have the King James, you'll be all over the place. Foundational verses that prove Jesus is God Almighty are stripped away, such as:

1 Jn. 5:7, 1 Tim. 3:16, Luke 2:33 & 43, Jn. 10:30, and even Jn. 3:16 is changed to the one and only (new age garbage) instead of only begotten. Apostate Jack misquotes the verse above and says "He SENT His only begotten son". He does this in some of his other writings as well, so it's no slip of the tongue. The bible says "gave". He also capitalized words "He and His" that are not capitalized in the bible. He does not appear to have a high regard for the scriptures as an apostle would surely have, no? His "sent" has the hiss of the serpent, his father.

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Jack is clowning around with some very private interpretations. Not that I have a problem with breaking away from traditions of men. We are very much against many things that are done, by and large, by the whole of Christendom. But those convictions are based solely on the bible because we are opposed to traditions of men. But just because some people are wrong on the Godhead, doesn't mean we should throw out the baby with the bathwater.

There's a good one for you brother Halan. All three verses that mention the word "Godhead" are removed from modern perversions of the bible. That might be a clue that Satan is up to something.

One has to reject scripture after scripture in the King James Bible to come to the conclusion that Jesus is not God. And Apostate Jack has excelled at rejection of clear scripture.

I noticed too (it's hard not to notice) his horrible grammar on the comments here and in the writings on his own hub page. With all his talk about intellectualism, he doesn't seem to smart (and is lacking in biblical wisdom severely).

The fact that he has any followers/sympathizers whatsoever shows what a sad state we are in these last days.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

If that don't sound like Jack, nothing does. And I doubt there is any hope for him whatsoever seeing he is entrenched in new age ideas. Jack is going to hell like a bullet, sure as you live and breath. I just read one of his comments:

"I am the Last of the Major Spirits of the Almighty's Eternal Godhead that was chosen and appointed by Him to come forth to receive"The Passing of the Staff of Hidden and Unknown Knowledge".I know you don't understand,but that is why I am sent,that not only you,but that the WORLD may know and understand that there is MORE knowledge besides what is already here."

It seems to me he puts himself on a higher plane than the Lord Jesus Christ. What a wicked, wicked man you are Jack.

Thou hast a devil.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

@ Jack,

The key here is "only begotton son," that means born of the flesh by immaculate conception. No one else was ever born in such a way. Jesus was still the Word that became flesh. John 1:1 and the Word was God. ( Jehova's Witness Bible says "and the Word was a God" - which makes two Gods... even the Jehova's Witnesses cannot explain that one.)

John 1:14 "... and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."

Those two verses, from the same passage, say God became flesh. If that flesh was not Jesus Christ, who was it? How does one get around this passage and say Jesus was not God?

I can't.

- Harlan


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

@TheWordofaKing

The only thing I could add here is I believe (without looking for a corrupted NIV bible) is... 2 Peter 1:19 is one of two verses in the NIV that trade places with Jesus and Satan. The other is Isaiah 14:12 where it substitutes Lucifer with Morning Star - which is Jesus Christ. If the Morning Star fell from heaven, we are all in trouble.

The perverted Bibles also remove the shed blood of Jesus almost entirely, they remove prayer and fasting for casting out of devils, (that makes it much easier to read you know) and they also remove 1 John 5:7 which is the only verse that describes the Godhead in one single verse.

I am working on an article on this issue. I have experienced that a lot of Christians get really mad when you point-out such things in the NIV or the NKJV etc. They get real upset and want to fight and argue over it and I don't understand that.

The first act of Satan on earth was to take away the Word of God and cast doubt on it. "Yea, hath God said?" Satan fooled Eve into sinning by attacking the word of God. Mankind fell into sin for this very reason. Today Satan is still attacking and changing the word of God, and when you point it out, people get all upset. I don't get it.

I believe there is enough of the word of God in those perverted Bibles that a person can get saved but the church that uses one as a whole is gambling and will be weak and there will be confusion. God is not the author if confusion, but confusion is a great tool for Satan. People's spiritual health and their souls are not gambling chips.

And, these new bibles are changing their words over time to line up even more with New Age Doctrines where Satan is like the most high and the false christ of those he deceives into his false church. The false church is not just one church building somewhere or one particular religion, its lost, unsaved people who believe they are ok - in all the churches.

Westcott and Hort, the two main editors of the NIV admit openly that they did not believe in the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ, which means they didn't believe in Jesus at all. It's not like its a hidden secret, its in their journals - they admit it. Yet you have a nation of pastors and a body within the church who are completely ignorant of it, and when you point it out, they get all upset with you and want to argue. Some are fully aware and still argue.

All the churches within 20 miles of my house use the NIV bible, and I refuse to go to a church that uses one. There is a mormon building just 2 blocks away, I know they use the KJV, when they are not using the Book of Mormon, the D&C or the Pearl of Great Price.

There is a local joke running around about Mormons, goes like this:

You know how to take your Mormon friends fishing and not have them drink all your beer or smoke all your cigarettes?

Take two Mormon friends. LOL.

Of course that could applied to many religions.

Thank you for your comments,

- In Christ

- Harlan


Apostle Jack 5 years ago

John the Baptist was born without the act of intercourse,and so have others in the bible.If everyone follow the things you say they are as incorrect as you are.

The blind leading the blind is what it adds up to for you and those that follow you.

I see you and those that follow you is without title in whatever faith you profess to hold,you are surely not Christians.You nor those are not teachers nor is call by God to do so.Prophecy of where we are now in predestination is beyond you and their knowledge.You have to know where you are now in order to know what will come next.Only those that God send forth can know this.Christ did not teach us to pray to Him...but to the Father.But people like you and and those that follow you have Twisted it around and do otherwise.Therefore you are not accepted by God.IT TAKE MORE THAN WORDS TO BE A CHRISTIAN.


TheWordOfAKing 5 years ago

You are a blind guide AJ. The bible says that Zacharias would have a son by Elisabeth:

Luk 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

To claim otherwise is utter foolishness. You sure didn't get that falsehood from the bible, maybe from a devil, certainly not from God.

Your esoteric hidden mystery false religion (Rev. 17:5) has been put to the test by the Book of books and been found wanting. You are a false self proclaimed prophet, and I would rather be "without title" in your eyes than a fool in God's. The bible says "the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch". Yet your mystery religion agrees with Egypt's mystery religion (a type of the world), not the word of God.

And why would you want to go by the name of Christian anyhow since the Lord Jesus Christ is not even your Lord? You have made him a liar and a fraud because if he was not God (and he most certainly is) then he was a crook for letting people worship him (Jn. 20:28) and saying that he himself was God (Jn. 10:30 & Jn. 10:11 with Mat. 19:17).

And words are something you are not gifted in (at least not the English language). You have not even passed the test of a Christian in the word department, so how could you be a Christian in deed? No one is twisting the scriptures but you (for that matter, you hardly use scripture unless it is to correct it or ADD TO IT - Pro. 30:6 & Rev. 22:18).

Apostate Jack, you are far from the kingdom of God. Not to mention, you are strengthening the hands of sinners against the ONE TRUE GOD having set up a false God as a stumbling block before yourself and others. The devil must be proud of you as his child (Job 41:34).

Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?


Apostle Jack profile image

Apostle Jack 5 years ago from Atlanta Ga

You can always tell them that pick up the bible and read a few lines and think they know the whole bible.

You are one of those that like to hide behind a building and speak without being seen.That is why you have no profile picture nor hubs to show yourself.

You are answering the wrong question.

Harlan Colt is the one that said no birth was like Jesus,so I told Him about John and others in the bible.

You don't have a title nor a calling and you are not notice by God,only by those that don't know any better.

You spoke of my words which I am glad to be different about.As long as you conceive what I say,my goal have been accomplish.Your head is too high,and you pat yourself on the back more than others do.

God hates that king of people,and so do all true Christians.

It is written in the words of Paul in 1 Cor 2 v 1.........when i came to you i came not with Excellency of speech.Neither do i.

That cloud you are is about to vanish.The higher you are the more it will hurt when you hit the ground.You are already falling and don't even know it.Truly,.... you need more prayer than Satan.

You really need to take a 2nd look in the mirror, you keep missing something you didn't see the last time.


Spirit Whisperer profile image

Spirit Whisperer 5 years ago from Isle of Man

God did not create the Universe in fact saying so is blasphemy. Why would a perfect God create an imperfect World in His own image. The world is an illusion a construct of mind designed by the subconscious for us a safe haven controlled by the ego. Who dreams your dreams at night? Then who do you think dreams your dreams by day?


Apostle Jack profile image

Apostle Jack 5 years ago from Atlanta Ga

Life is how one chose it to be.Some will miss the boat,and some will be late,and some won't even think about catching it at all.It is PREDESTINATED THAT WAY.So if one believe or not believe it will not affect the original.

The world have focus so much on false prophets,that they have forgotten that God still send forth His True people.


TheWordOfAKing 5 years ago

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Job 32:21 Let me not, I pray you, accept any man's person, neither let me give flattering titles unto man.

Job 32:22 For I know not to give flattering titles; in so doing my maker would soon take me away.

It's not prideful to exalt what God's word says over what man says. But Jack's pride is evident in that he believes God has given him special revelation that is not even in the bible itself (and does not agree with scripture).

Funny that the one who is actually quoting and using scripture to back up what he believes is the one being accused of not knowing it. AJ, your lack of biblical understanding is evident for all to see.

And what difference does it make whether or not someone sees my picture. That doesn't mean I'm hiding. Paul and Peter don't have a picture next to their writings in the bible, does that mean they are hiding too?

Whether aimed at me or not, I was pointing out your bible illiteracy on your John the Baptist folly. John had a father and a mother and was NOT virgin born, where Jesus was. The bible does not support your false assertion.

I guess you don't know any better than to notice me since you keep responding to me. You have incriminated yourself as one who does not know any better.

As for my supposed pride where you say, "Your head is too high,and you pat yourself on the back more than others do....That cloud you are is about to vanish.The higher you are the more it will hurt when you hit the ground.You are already falling and don't even know it.Truly,.... you need more prayer than Satan."

Since we haven't been properly introduced, allow me to do so now:

I am but dust and ashes, not worthy of the least of God's mercies. I am a born again, bible believing, Satan hating child of the living God, who's made his calling and election sure. I believe pride ought to ALWAYS be put down as "God resisteth the proud but giveth grace to the humble". I am persuaded that giving honour to the Lord Jesus Christ and His word is one of the best things I can do in this life. He is worthy since He is my God and creator, my Lord and Saviour, the King of kings and Lord of lords. I am a man who has faithful children (Tit. 1:6) and a submissive wife. I believe every single word (down to the punctuation and verse markings) in my King James Bible. I not only believe it but I read it and teach that others should do the same.

Paul's not coming in "excellency of speech" is not the same thing as you coming with words which are contrary to the word of God. He goes on to say in vss. 4-5, "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." Also in vs 13, "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." When your words are compared to spiritual things (the bible) they are exposed to be natural things.

And we are right to judge whether or not you are a true or false prophet since we are told to prove all things, hold fast that which is good. You are not good, because you deny the Lord Jesus Christ His rightful place as God.


ruffridyer 5 years ago from Dayton, ohio

An interesting hub. Also enjoyed the comments. I really wish people would get their facts straight when talking about my faith. Mormon's do not teach that the apostle paul is still on the earth. It is the apostle John who was blessed too remain as mentioned in john chp 21 vs 20,21,22.

Also we believe it is by GRACE we are saved after ALL we can do. We still need to fight the good fight and run the race.

As for apostle jack why would God have only ONE apostle on the earth. He has twelve apostles just like in jerusalem 2,000 yrs ago. Jack is not one of them.

As to the main point of your hub. The idea that God is three in the sense that you and I are three Body,Mind and Spirit is ludicrius. When Jesus was Baptised by john at the river jordon his father spoke from heaven saying,"This is my beloved son",, the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a dove. There we have three separate persons in three separate locations at the same time. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

They are the Godhead different persons, one in purpose, power and authority. amen.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Ruffrider,

John or Paul, - sorry, I forgot which in the last 10 years or so. Regardless, What difference does it make if he is not active in preaching the fullness of the everlasting gospel? My contention here is - if as LDS believe that John is still alive on earth - he would be front and center at the LDS Main Temple in Salt Lake making daily headlines preaching the "fullness of the everlasting gospel" and performing miracles with the powers Jesus gave him and Benny Hinn would be out of business.

If John is still alive and Mormonism is the true gospel there would have been no need for Joseph Smith to restore the church because it would have never gone away - living through John and his followers. Many of the LDS apostles would have never been apostles because the seats would have already been filled. The remnant followers of, and John himself would still be somewhere on the planet. Would it not? John would be quite the celebrity as everyone would know - wow this guy just keeps on living and never dying. He would be over 2000 years old and have written many, many books on Mormonism I would think.

Your comment, "We believe we are saved by grace AFTER all that we can do..." is contrary to the doctrines of the Jesus of the Bible - which is fine because the LDS believe that gospel is corrupt as taught by LDS prophet Jonathan Taylor that Christianity was hatched in hell and kicked upon the face of the earth. The problem I have with that is...

When do you know that you have done all that you can do? How does the LDS person know that? You never know that you have done all that you can do - there is always one more little thing you could have done and maybe didn't notice. Therefore, LDS are always busy working, earning their salvation trying to do all they can do - which is impossible. The Mormon jesus did not do it all the cross. His shed blood is insufficient, the mormon believer must do something too. The mormon jesus is another Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible. The Jesus of the Bible paid it all on the cross.

There is nothing the Bible believing Christian must do in terms of works. Rather good works come as an after-effect of salvation, not as a co-payment for salvation. There is nothing you can do beyond have faith in him and that faith is the work that pleases him - not works themselves. Secondly, the Mormon jesus is a product of a physical sexual union between and physical impregnation of Mary and Adam (the Mormon god of this planet also believed to be Michael the Archangel).

I do not say these things as criticism, but mere comparison.

Journal of Wilford Woodruff; April 9 1852; Quoting Brigham Young. “Our Father begot all the spirits that were before any tabernacle was made. When our Father came into the Garden He came with his Celestial body & brought one of his wives with him and ate of the fruit of the Garden until He could beget a Tabernacle. And Adam is Michael God and all the God that we have anything to do with. They ate of this fruit & formed the first Tabernacle that was formed. [became flesh] And when the Virgin Mary was begotten with child it was by the Father and in no other way only as we were begotten.[he had physical sex with Mary] I will tell you the truth as it is in God. The world don't know that Jesus Christ our Elder Brother was begotten by our Father in Heaven. Handle it as you please, it will either seal the damnation or salvation of man. He was begotten by the Father & not by the Holy Ghost.”

This is in direct contradiction to MY FAITH, which states... Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: thereforealso that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. - Luke 1:34-35.

Point being - we have a completely different faith my friend. LDS apostles openly teach it...

"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" - B. Young (Journal of Discourses 8:171).

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world"- B. Young (Journal of Discourses 8:199).

"Brother [John] Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and kicked on to the earth" (Journal of Discourses 6:176).

"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense…the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century" J. Taylor (Journal of Discourses 6:167).

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing….Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest of fools; they know neither God nor the things of God" J. Taylor (Journal of Discourses 13:225).

Here's a couple more comparisons...

Brigham Young stated “How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me namely that Adam is our father and God .... Our father Adam helped make this earth .. he brought one of his wives with him… Then he (Adam) said, “I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state, I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come here and take tabernacles of flesh... that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle, or a dwelling place as mine has. (Brigham Young, Deseret News, 6/16/1873)

“At meeting of school of the prophet, President Young said Adam was Michael, the Archangel and he was the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and that Joseph taught this principle” (Wilford Woodruff Journal, Dec. 16, 1867)

“Joseph said that Adam was our Father and God (Brigham Young, Journal History of the Church, May 14, 1876)

“Mankind are here because they are the offspring of parents [Adam and Eve] who were first brought here from another planet, and power was given them to propagate their species” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 285, 1859).

“He [Adam] was the person who brought the animals and the seeds from other planets to this world.... You may read and believe what you please as to what is found written in the Bible. Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but NOT from the dust of this earth” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 319, 1856). [Adam is an Alien?]

In comparison, we have a different God, a different Jesus and as your prophet states, my religion was hatched in hell, I am as ignorant as the beast of the field. Obviously, I disagree. I have members of my family who are lifetime LDS and we get along great, but disagree on religion.

I believe: God is not Adam, my Jesus is God in the flesh as I outlined in my hub. My Jesus did not preach Mormonism, my Jesus was not my brother in pre-existence, you and I were not spirit brothers with Satan in heaven before coming to the earth, and that Apostle John is not alive on earth preaching Mormonism.

You have a completely different faith system than I do - which I am not criticizing or taking issue with, but pointing out - when one compares apples to oranges, certainly their conclusions will appear to be ludicrous.

Thank you for commenting, and best wishes to you.

- Harlan


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

Ruffrider,

For some reason the hub keeps parsing my answer short, so I am asking this in a new post.

It has occurred to me, that if You, Jesus, Satan, and I along with everyone else, were all brothers and sisters in pre-existence, and Jesus and Satan volunteered to be the savior of the planet and presented their plans, then what stopped you or I from also volunteering and presenting a plan of salvation? This says to me, the only difference between You, Me, Jesus and Satan, is Jesus' plan of salvation was voted on and approved, other than that, there is no difference between Jesus, Satan or anyone for that matter.

Is that correct? Or is there more LDS doctrine on this I am missing?

Just curious, and thank you.

- Harlan


Sinbadsailorman profile image

Sinbadsailorman 5 years ago from Valparaiso, Indiana

If you do not know Jesus Is God the Word Made Flesh from the Beginning you Have no Hope In seeing and/or Hearing the Comforter when you are tried by Satan Pretending to be Jesus as the Anti-Christ.

GOD is Not Limited too being three alone ever, GOD is ALL in all! Nothing can Nor will be without Him. The Three is a common Factor brought into being by the three ages or Periods of TIME Before time Father alone, some where after the word became and then the Heavens along with everything that is and will ever be.

During Time our current time Father Son,and the Holy Spirit. After Time, Father Son and the Holy Ghost as One as It was in the Beginning. GOD is in all! Three dispositions of TIME As He has always been and will be and for 2/3 of Heaven that did not fall.

So Yes He appears as Lesser to us in human form. But yet All Power was given unto Him while in this Form which was Lesser than the Angels for the Human form can Not full contain the whole of GOD's being.

So GOD divided Himself. Past As the Word and the Father, Present in three forms and future in Spirit as Father and Son here we have at least Nine phases of ONE GOD and if need be GOD could do this an infinite number of times! I am that I am or what I need to be.

This is a very small thing for a God to do let alone thee GOD to do. For HE is the First and the Last and everything in between the starting point to the current ending point which continues to expand or grow. No one behind and None Known ahead.

YES with out a doubt Jesus is GOD a Son of a Woman or son of Man which Makes him a Son of GOD. He is the ONLY Begotten Because of the Holy Spirit which caused the conception to come about. Which caused the Blood to become Holy and the body to not Fall under Satan or Adams Authority.

For both of these are guilty of Sin and one is still Guilty of UN repentance. This is why we are all here in the first place.

Donnie/ Sinbad the Sailor Man

Note: Jesus was sent to show the Path so of course He would Show us How to Humble ourselves Before Himself Before His Fullness which His Human Body could not contain Until after the resurrection. And even Still it was Not the complete fullness of GOD the Father for If GOD would Have appear Here on this Earth which is Hidden in formed within a Lie the Lie would be revealed and all of Us would be without flesh which is also a lie of this world where we are in Holding and under instruction still As this was what Satan Was to do to Instruct Us in some matter.


Lone Ranger 5 years ago

Harlan, that was deep, my boy, but you hit another home run!!!

I will admit that this subject is one that has perplexed me and still confuses me, even after studying the concept of the Trinity for years.

I have often thought that When Jesus said, "...When you have seen me you have seen the Father....", He was saying that He was the perfect representation of His Father in heaven and that He also was in complete union and harmony with The Father...being The Word of God made flesh.

It also confuses me that when Jesus was suffering in the garden He said, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not what I want but what you want." [Matthew 26:39]

Why does Jesus seem to be deferring to a superior power and why does Christ's will seem to differ from His Father's?

Then again, in Matthew 27:46 Jesus cried, "...My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Again, this seems like Jeus is deferring to a higher power and is set apart from His Father.

The two above verses have always confused me, because, even with all the aforementioned verses you have provided (and they are numerous), I still have a hard time reconciling the fact that Jesus is praying to Himself and that His will or desire is different than His Heavenly Will.

I am again inclined to see a further distinction between The Father and His Son: Revelation 21:22 "I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb."

And, yet again, the Bible says that The Almighty and His Son will be reigning jointly, but how can this be if they are one and the same?

I am, therefore, led to believe that The Almighty is a Being beyond my comprehension. He has qualities that my mind cannot understand. I know there are no other Gods but Him and Him alone, yet He is co-ruling with His Only Begotten Son, Christ Jesus.

How can this be? I cannot claim to know more than I do, but it seems as though The Almighty is just too magnificent to rationally perceive with the senses and is too incomprehensible to define with logic. So, I must be satisfied to know that He is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End...and I am not.

I therefore am led to believe that there is The Father, there is The Son, and there is The Holy Ghost and they can all be present at the same time [Christ's baptism], in different forms, in perfect harmony, and with one accord.

One day I would like to have closure on this subject, but for me, the jury is still out. Any input on the things I listed above, will be greatly appreciated with special regards to the versus that have left me perplexed. God's rich blessings to all and to all a Happy Thanksgiving!

P.S. I just want to thank everyone for the fine discussion and for the excellent insights. In truth, I don't believe there is a topic more important than the one discussed right here.


Harlan Colt profile image

Harlan Colt 5 years ago from the Rocky Mountains Author

LR, I will answer your questions in more depth soon, this is going to take longer than I have atm. Best Wishes - Harlan


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

Wow, I've come back to catch up! I wish TheWordOfAKing would write some hubs, 'cause I'd be over there praising the LORD our God, Jesus Christ! If Lone Ranger would like to come over and read some of my material, I've had a great passion to write on the subject of "Jesus is the Almighty God" and address many of his questions. Mainly, Lone Ranger, The Spirit of God is omnipresent; the flesh of God is not. It was God's flesh that submitted to His Spirit in every way as we do. God existed in flesh and Spirit at the same time. God is invisible Spirit; Jesus is His visible image (in Spirit and flesh ~ always has been and always will be). I hope that's a good start. Press on, brother Harlan!


Lone Ranger 5 years ago

Thank you, Harlan, I do appreciate it. And, thank you, J.D., perhaps I will accept your invitation to join you as well. But, having said that please keep in mind that Harlan is my boy, so don't be thinking you can steal me away from him. :0)

J.D. said, "God existed in flesh and Spirit at the same time. God is invisible Spirit; Jesus is His visible image (in Spirit and flesh ~ always has been and always will be)."

---------------------

I do appreciate your attention in this matter, J.D., and for spending your time trying to communicate a profound message to the 'ol boy, but I am many things, including dense, so please be forewarned.

Still, my delicate cerebral membrane is having a devil of a time trying to reconcile The Father and The Son being one and the same, especially when They are co-ruling together.

I am a man of faith, don't get me wrong, but sound reason is also part of my modis operendi, meaning I just can't buy into a concept wholeheartedly without satisfying certain aspects of reason beforehand.

All things aside (and brother Harlan has done a commendable job outlining his thesis above), I still have those little speed bumps previously described, that need to be dealt with first.

If I cannot be convinced, please know that it is my failure to understand, not your failure for being less than convincing. Peace be with you both. - L.R.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

Hi, Lone Ranger, I have just published a hub to answer your questions from your comment on my hub "God: Let Us Make Man In Our Image?" The name of the hub is "Answer to Lone Ranger: Is Jesus the Father?" God bless and hope you can find it, and I pray it gives you some beautiful things to ponder.

Brother Harlan, God bless and I appreciate the ministry the LORD does through you!!


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines

Harlan, bless you. But I think you're wrong. And that's my heartfelt "opinion."

About Yehoshua being God and vice versa, yes, I disagree.

But more importantly, about your phrasing: "The Bible itself maintains that position."

You are presuming that your understanding is equivalent to the Bible. Is it really?

Is your understanding equal to that of God? I have a feeling that you will say "no," to that outrageous question, but your phrasing implies a "yes."

I could say, "the Bible" talks about reincarnation and karma. I've done that kind of phrasing in the past and I'm rethinking my position. I still feel that the Bible talks about these things without using those words, but can I really say "the Bible says?" In all humility, I don't know the TRUTH, otherwise I wouldn't still have my evil ego.

But ego is tricky. We may be humble on certain fronts, but arrogant on others. Would stating, "The Bible itself maintains that position," be an arrogant position to presume against all other conflicting interpretations that they are wrong and you are right. The very phrasing is a claim of validity and correctness to one's own personal interpretation.

The Bible offers TRUTH. But interpretation falls far short of it. Don't let your own ego trick you into thinking you're being humble and then perpetrating such arrogance under its cover.

And that covers my disagreement with your approach.

May the blessings of God's wisdom visit us more often. I hunger for it.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines

Now, for the Christ = God aspect.

Yes, Yehoshua said that he was with God before the world was, but that doesn't make him God. You were with your parents before your children were born (if you have children), but that doesn't make you your parents.

Yehoshua said that he and his father were one. Some misconstrue this to mean that they were one and the same, but Yehoshua also said that he is less than the father.

And what of the Holy Spirit. I offer to you that the sleeping immortal within each of us is that Holy Spirit -- the child of God (true self, soul), within.

And I offer to you that we were there with God and Yehoshua the Christ before the world was.

Genesis 1:26 says that God created "man" in His own image and likeness. That makes us (man) inherently a baby god, just as Adam begat Seth in his likeness and image as a baby human.

The better part of us is that child of God and sibling of Yehoshua of Christ. God wants His children back and they are not Homo sapiens.

We humans are a composite: Homo sapiens body, wrapped around immortal spirit and trapped in an action-reaction ego. And ego is the true source of all evil.

Does a human son ever have the glory of their parents? Of course they do, when they perform with equal stature.

Why would we be baptized in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost? Nothing ever said they were equivalent. The Holy Ghost serves the Son and the Son serves the Father. All are "flesh of His immortal flesh" (non-physically speaking).

continued...


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines

continued...

Everlasting life is not about these physical Homo sapiens bodies. Yehoshua conquered death, because as a non-physical being and Son of God he is an immortal. But potentially so are we. We can conquer death, too, but that doesn't make us God. Christ promised us everlasting life.

A piece of God in the flesh is still not equivalent to God as a whole.

God purchased His church with his own blood. Yes, and it was His blood, because the Son served Him, not was Him.

God says that there is no other savior but Him. Naturally. Only a child of God who has returned to the Father can take part in the mission to save the "lost sheep."

But when one of those "lost sheep" returns to the Father, they become like the prodigal son. It remains cause for celebration, and the newly returned son can now be one with the Father and partake in the salvation of their siblings, the "lost sheep."

Harlan, you said, "WHOA! If Jesus was not God - HE JUST SINNED!" But read it again. You quoted not Jesus, but the enemies of Yehoshua who were about to stone him. They said he "claimed to be God." They misunderstood him. Christ was speaking of things for which there is very poor vocabulary in any of our languages.

"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods" (John 10:34 KJV)?

Remember Genesis 1:26?

Jesus was a son of God. So was David. I dare say, so were Moses and Elijah. Why? Because they were of the spirit, rather than of the Earth. They were one with God, rather than subservient to ego. They were fearless, rather than mortally vulnerable.

Jesus reminded his enemies that others were gods, too. But it takes complete submission of ego to attain this; only without ego can the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) awaken. His enemies were quite likely wallowing in ego, threatened by Christ's power.

Harlan, you jump to so many unfounded conclusions. But more agregiously, you claim that your interpretation is equivalent to the intent behind the Bible. I suggest that it may not be and that there is far more there for all of us to learn.

Bless you for your efforts. May God bless us all with greater insight in these troubled times.


oceansider 3 years ago

You and I know that Jesus Christ is God and God is Christ and that God is triune...that God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost...are all equally God!...I have to say...Wow!....this was wonderful....you have provided so many powerful scripture verses....and anyone who had any doubts before, shouldn't anymore!.....You did an excellent job finding appropriate scripture to support your case.....I just pray that this man who is questioning you, will finally see what the Truth is, and that Jesus will open his heart and mind to really know God's Love and Peace!......May God bless you for your most powerful and true witness for Him!!!....I know that He loves it when we bring glory to His name!


True Truthseeker profile image

True Truthseeker 6 months ago

Peace. This subject of the Anointed/ Christ, being the One doing the anointing, of the One sent being the One who sent, of the First Cause being the Uncaused, is really confusing. However, if we understand that the Opposer/Adversary/ Satan is in fact deceiving the whole world [the majority], perhaps we may seek more assiduously and allow Scripture to interpret itself./////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Significantly, as Jesus, the Prophet like Moses [Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Acts 3:17- 26] said, Scripture cannot be broken/ annulled as at John 10:30 - 35. Therefore when texts as at Deuteronomy 6:4 say God is ONE [more correctly YHWH/ JEHOVAH is ONE YHWH/ JEHOVAH] and God is NOT man or son of man as at Numbers 23:19, we need to take heed.////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Science and the Reality of Creation

According to the holy Writings / Bible, Almighty God created the Word and through the Word created all else [Revelation 3:14; John 1:2; Hebrews 1:1-2; Colossians 1:15-17; Proverbs 8:22-31 etc.; 1 Corinthians 8:5-6]. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// There are no contradictions in the Bible, contradictions arise from FAULTY RENDERING from the original tongues/ languages and/ or from FAULTY INTERPRETATIONS. //////// Compare 1 John 5:17-18; Revelation 1:11, and 1 Timothy 3:16 in the KJV v.s. NIV, ESV, ASV, GNB, ETC.

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working