God's Adversary? Can Satan be Saved?

This hub was inspired by my fellow hubbing friend Castlepaloma; On the forums a question was posed; can Satan be saved? As a result Castlepaloma wrote a hub on Save Satan and is worth the read as he is quite witty in his logic.

For some, Satan is always blamed for whatever is perceived as bad and evil. God is praised for whatever is perceived as good. For others whatever is perceived as bad and evil is always blamed on God.

Then there are those who do not attribute the ills or the good of the world to anything or any person or divine being.

There are many questions that arise when one explores the nature of Satan. For instance; Are God and Satan one and the same? Is it merely human nature to attribute any short falls in character, personality or actions to one of these beings/entities/presences? Is it human nature to attribute what is good to God only and bad to Satan only? Are God and Satan separate beings that rule different realms of our universe or minds? These might be ongoing debates that will never be satisfied.

God is in all things

I like to visualize God as an ocean of infinite light and love that is forever expanding and contracting with the most beautiful sound. In this ocean there exists everything and nothing. In this ocean there exists the temporal and the eternal. Out of what is eternal and infinite the temporal is formed through waves of splashing lights of color that merge and exhale, separate and exhale. The infinite light pirouettes daintily aloft delicate wings of more spectacular color creating more waves of light that dive, converge, soar and alight into the patterns it has formed with such complexity that beauty is everywhere to be seen. Through these patterns, matter and the manifest are formed.

There is nowhere that light is not, even in the darkest of manifest forms. There is no where that love is not, even when it may appear to be absent.


Duality

We live in a world where opposites are perceived through the temporary senses of our finite minds. Within the temporary however is the eternal and this is comforting to most when understood in its entirety. The eternal has inner senses of the infinite ocean.

The river of life as we know life to be springs from this infinite and eternal ocean. We experience this river of life through our minds. We experience the opposites through our minds. Good and Evil, God and Satan. All experienced through the river of life that flows indiscriminately through our mind. It is our minds that discriminate.

Our levels of realization of both the temporary and the eternal sometimes determines whether or not there is a God or a Satan and whether they are separate or one. What level of realization we are at differs from person to person.

What some see as Satan/Evil, others might see Ego. What some see as God/Good others might see as the higher self. With each person there are variations. However which way one sees it, the experience of both Satan/God Ego/Higher Self is experienced through our minds wholly and completely.

The ego and the higher self are not separate as some might think, they are still one mind. When the ego matures and synchronizes or works with the higher self an integrated mind results. Wholeness or part thereof arises that was not experienced before.

Our level of awareness then understands that we are part of a sum total that Satan or Ego is part of too.

Can Satan be saved then? I say yes!

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Comments 67 comments

Krisalyn 24 months ago

Real brain power on dipsyal. Thanks for that answer!


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 4 years ago from New Zealand Author

Oh lol.

I cannot believe their religion would play a role in the relationship? It is amazing how people can be too sensitive about these things. Makes one wonder if they actually abide by the said law of loving one another. ...mmm


Castlepaloma profile image

Castlepaloma 4 years ago from Saskatchewan, Canada

rebeltazz is me

I'll start by not blaming those hard Christian women for breaking up with me because I won't not convert.

I forgive them, may even date one again (a lot more carefully}


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 4 years ago from New Zealand Author

I do agree. I think it is a program that we definitely need to change. Thanks rebeltazz appreciate your visit and comments.


rebeltazz 4 years ago

At least we can teach them how to look at ourselves first, before blaming others, so fast and so often


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 4 years ago from New Zealand Author

Castle my friend, and what if we understand Satan better and suddenly find there exists something far worse in that mass We will then need to employ Satans help because we would be no match lol. (After all Satan created job)

Saving Satan might be more appealing to others

No longer can Satan be blamed, We can blame Datan the new entity.

Seriously though, humans will always find something to blame.


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 4 years ago from New Zealand Author

Mark, I agree everything has a resonance even those thing perceived as good or evil. Indeed the vibrations become denser or lighter depending on the experience in the moment.

I have no doubt that there are other dimensional beings and that they can if allowed play havoc on our own energies because of their rate of vibration.

One of the things my father always taught was this. Because we experience these things via the mind, nothing can affect us unless we let it. Of course we were shown how to not let other energies interfere with our own.

It is actually not dualistic but we perceive it this way. And yes that is true lol.


Castlepaloma profile image

Castlepaloma 4 years ago from Saskatchewan, Canada

Well, all that 99% unknown mass under the 6km surface of the earth.

I wonder if man did explore that 99% mass, he might understand Satan far better. Then Save Satan or forget about him and then move on to something else to blame our mistakes on.


markbennis 4 years ago

Great hub and subject matter penny, I like sometimes to try and understand the universe and dimensions as a large scale of ascending and descending frequencies, of sound and light, all sharing the same space?

Good and evil as a metaphor could be represented by this scale somewhat, where good ascends and bad descends this scale. Everything is energy and has a resonance, just like us when our conscience is deeply affected by the bad things we may have done or witnessed, our own vibration becomes lower and denser, or so it feels.

The lower our vibration descends the more ill effects we begin to experience, and if we can assume that we only exist somewhere in the middle of this scale, then how low does it really go?

I believe there are some very dark, dark entities that have a very low vibration, dense and horrid, who exist just beyond or below our space and time. Evil exists and so does the greater good, is there a real opposition between these dualistic ranges of light?

Well, if you believe we exist in a dualistic reality as we do, then I would say this problem will exist until the day finally comes that this universe expires. Which to a mortal mind looks like never, LOL.


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pennyofheaven 4 years ago from New Zealand Author

Opinions and descriptions indeed.


John King IV 4 years ago

Yes I like this. This is surely how it is. A real world filled with the infinite opinions and descriptions of this reality by the masses of souls.


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 4 years ago from New Zealand Author

Not advanced at all. Maybe it just sounds that way with my choice in words I don't know?

Objective reality is present. No amount of denying that objectivity exists is not going to change it. It is in a constant state of flux though. It does not remain the same and is not permanent. This most of us know.

There are infinite ways however, to perceive our objective world.

I will try to illustrate keeping it as simple as possible:

Objective Reality: A flower bed full of fully grown red roses line the middle of the street. Identical Tall buildings lined each side of the street.

Many people venture down the same street. They are asked to describe the street. Here might be the different accounts from passers by.

1: The street was full of tall buildings.

2: There were flowers in the middle of the street

3: There were red flowers lining the street

4: There were beautiful red roses in the middle of the street

5: There were ugly red roses in the middle of the street, what an eyesore!

6: There were buildings on both sides and flowers in the middle of the street.

Everyone saw the same thing but based on their perceptions they described only that which stood out for them.


John King IV 4 years ago

Yes I am going to read this. Sounds very modern. I have heard that the philosopher Kant wrote about a critique of pure reason.

These things you speak of are so advanced. I think commenting on them is beyond my ability...for now.

All I can say for sure is that I am convinced that there is a reality, and that my mind or soul is the only access to this reality. I also hold this to be true of every other person.

I will read your article shortly and comment.


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 4 years ago from New Zealand Author

I have touched on that subject in my 'Beliefs are never absolute' hub if you are interested.

You have no argument from me if for you truth is God. For me, God is infinite in nature. IE: In all things both tangible and intangible.

What we perceive of our reality and the opinions we form would be dependent on our ability to perceive what is infinite in nature.

If we can perceive infinity truth as we currently know it may take on a whole new meaning. The opposite could be true too, it may have no meaning at all except that which we assign to it. The mind boggles.

So far I have not completely ruled out that we create our own reality. Co-create makes more sense to me. On our own however I am not so sure.

Indeed pleasant thanks for stimulating my thoughts again.


John King IV 4 years ago

Perhaps the subject of truth would make a great future hub.

Opinions vs truth.... From my perspective, universals, or reality exists. In fact, I would argue that God is truth. (and I must emphasize that my God is not an individual mind or soul!) A more modern word is reality or the universe. We can make opinions about reality, yet surely it is absurd to say that reality is our own opinions. Surely reality is not an individuals own dream world. AAAAhh gee, now I feel like writing my own hub over truth.

Anyway, thank you as well for this pleasant dialogue.


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pennyofheaven 4 years ago from New Zealand Author

Oh I forgot to thank you for your very kind comments. Thank you.


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 4 years ago from New Zealand Author

Truth is a concept that I cannot fully grasp an understanding of. In the sense that what is true for one person is not necessarily true to another. Our concept of truth is largely based on the information and or experience that we receive. If we accept this information/experience it alters our truth. So what we thought was truth was actually false.

Truth therefore seems to be highly related to our ability or inability to perceive.

Sounds like I will enjoy reading more of your fabulous hubs.

Thanks again for stimulating yet again a very interesting discussion.


John King IV 4 years ago

You have a wonderful mind.

God is in everything....(sounsd pantheistic).

Do you believe in a concept of "truth"?

I also like your extremely phychological perspective. Example, God is attributted with good, and satan with evil, and that these are things of the ego.

My articles share some of your ideas, (i think): (eg God as light or energy of the universe, and satan as a part of one's own ego)


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 4 years ago from New Zealand Author

Thanks again Niteriter, I does not fit well with many but it might give someone food for though. I appreciate your enhancing comments.


Niteriter profile image

Niteriter 4 years ago from Canada

Spectacular ideas. What comment could I make to enhance this in any way? Your thinking is inspiring. Well done!


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 4 years ago from New Zealand Author

Hi Chasuk, Awesome to see you in my neck of the woods. Thank you for visiting. Your feedback I do appreciate.


Chasuk 4 years ago

If I believed in Satan, I would certainly believe that he could be "saved."

Thanks for the interesting perspective.


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

I thoroughly enjoyed your book it was awesome! Can't wait for the rest!


SamboRambo profile image

SamboRambo 5 years ago from Salt Lake City, Utah

Wow! This all sounds very familiar! You may be interested in a book I wrote on this subject:

http://samborambo.hubpages.com/hub/The-Sweetsong-o...

If you read it, I would be interested in your reaction.


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Haha I am not sure they have lightened up about it but it might have inspired another way to look at Satan I don't know? I didn't find what you wrote about Satan, at all scary. Open minds will see the humor!


Castlepaloma profile image

Castlepaloma 5 years ago from Saskatchewan, Canada

I knew you were the one, to have people to lighten up on Satan. I get more hits on Save Satan than any other hub, but it seem the people are too afraid to comment about Satan.

Maybe I written about Satan too scary and scared them out of their wits, and many lost the humorous logic.


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Thank you my friend


Castlepaloma profile image

Castlepaloma 5 years ago from Saskatchewan, Canada

Great job


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Awww thanks for visiting again Ask. I am glad you think so. Your comments are very humbling!


AskAshlie3433 profile image

AskAshlie3433 5 years ago from WEST VIRGINIA

I just think it is so interesting. Not to many people have thought about this. It shows how good you are at writing. Love the poems as well. You are truly, ONE OF A KIND. Great hubs!!!!!!!!!! lol


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pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Haha! Yes the nature of our reflections!


Antoine Van Hove 5 years ago

Somehow I knew this would happen, Penny:

Duality can never sustain itself for very long.

Not even in digital form, apparently! ;-)


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Haha true! I found a delete forever button. Has transformed back into bits of information on the web now!


Antoine Van Hove 5 years ago

Well, something went wrong, and my comment is there two times. But than again, I know I count for two. :-) :-) :-)


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Oops accidentally approved both my friend. Nevertheless I choose love oneness conscious and peace if you were asking everyone. Excellent comments by the way.

With love!


Antoine Van Hove 5 years ago

LG, we are God and Satan at the same time. Both represent extremes of our own, unlimited potential.

But it is us! We are, well, just everything!

There is nothing or nobody else but us. There is nobody "outside", since there is no such thing as an "outside".

And Penny is right: If we focus on all kind of "doom" scenarios out of our complete ignorance, than they will manifest.

But not as a punishment of God, not some Satan that has to be tamed,... Nothing of the sort.

We, humanity, are one. And we are the creators of everything we experience.

And we may choose to wake up, to the true knowing (not the mental concept) that we are one. Or we may want to go on, in our unconscious behavior (with all the suffering, and so on...) as we did for ages and ages. And as the catharsis of that we may choose to experience: "doomsday". Wow! What an achievement!

We may want to in some masochistically way, choose for that "hurt" scenario.

But sooner or later we will not be able to deny our true nature any longer: That we all are love!

Pure, untouched, unharmed and complete love!

And there is fear. Or there is love. Both can simply not exist in the same spot at the same time.

So, LG, keeping God and Satan out of the equation, the basic question of all questions remains:

What do we choose for?

Do we choose fear, duality, ignorance, suffering and war?

Or do we choose love, oneness, conscious and peace?

But the choice is ours! It is our responsibility!

No escape from that!


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Yes I realized that when I read that site. So the John was the same person? Does that mean revelations is a given for you and cannot be changed?


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

In that site it explians that John saw the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius.

The Bible Mentions the Fire, Smoke and "Brimstone" in Volcano Eruptions

Isaiah 34:9 - And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.

Revelation 19:20 - And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 14:10 - The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Deuteronomy 29:23 - [And that] the whole land thereof [is] brimstone, and salt, [and] burning, [that] it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:

Isaiah 30:33 - For Tophet [is] ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made [it] deep [and] large: the pile thereof [is] fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.

Ezekiel 38:22 - And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that [are] with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

Genesis 19:24 - Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Psalms 11:6 - Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and a horrible tempest: [this shall be] the portion of their cup.

Revelation 9:18 - By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

Luke 17:29 - But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.

Job 18:15 - It shall dwell in his tabernacle, because [it is] none of his: brimstone shall be scattered upon his habitation.

Revelation 9:17 - And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses [were] as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Revelations is highly possible. Do you think Satan would be to blame if the predictions in revelations come in to being? Perhaps it is more that people have chosen their actions unconsciously not realizing it will affect the world we exist in. Our thoughts and actions affect our outer world (mainly because our outer and inner world are not separate even though it seems that way) . If we do not take full responsibility for our own thoughts and actions we will be participating in the destruction of our planet. It is all too easy to blame someone or something else for our own thoughts and actions even though we know we have choices. Choosing God (All that is good) or choosing Satan (All that is not so good) is the ultimate choice but the choice remains with us no matter how one choice seems more appealing then the other.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

Well what would happen if the truth of revelations did come out? They wouldn't believe it. Here is a site that explains that it already happened by what the writer John had seen and experienced: http://www.bible-history.com/resource/ff_vesu.htm


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

ZZron: Thanks for stopping by. Anything is possible I agree. Revelations is also a possibility. Not sure that Satan in the commonly accepted understanding would be responsible though. Mmm brings to mind another hub I could write.

Antoine: Yes indeed we have the capabilities to direct in accordance with how we realize these capabilities. Great points!

Mickey: Haha you made me laugh. The force of the darkside perhaps?

Castlepaloma: Hi my friend! I gathered you were away because of that. Did you not get my email? It was a quickie but nevertheless I am glad you got the opportunity to spend time with your precious daughter. Cannot wait to see your other piece. Sounds like a magical and mystical sculpture. Fires of hell and the beauty surrounds....that Protect! Very intriguing! I like that it is about fear and love, great symbols!

AskAshville3433: I've been on Holiday so am just reviving old ones at the moment. The above was a newbie so I am glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for stopping by.


AskAshlie3433 profile image

AskAshlie3433 5 years ago from WEST VIRGINIA

I have never thought about Satan being saved. Penny, you are very creative and I enjoy your hubs very much, especially your poems. I look forward to them. Thanks so much Penny.


Castlepaloma 5 years ago

Hi Penny, Doing a bas relief sculpture called Fear and Love realization. Its two women under a blossom tree showered and protected by flowers. What, surrounds them, is volcanic fires during a battle of war in hell.

Was gone away for a few weeks, my atheist Mom passes away and spent a wonderful week with my daughter. My pastor Brother is still trying to collect for her salvation from her will, ha ha.


Micky Dee profile image

Micky Dee 5 years ago

There sure are folks who embrace Satan, the dark side, etal. It's apparent in our government. God bless Penny!


Antoine Van Hove 5 years ago

@zzron: what if revelations is nothing but some projection forward of all our fears and pain, that wants to be healed?

Using revelations as an excuse is also the easiest way: we don't have to take responsibility ourselves, because it all happens outside us, "and there is nothing we can do about it", right?

Wouldn't it be better to start taking that responsibility, look our fears and pains right in the eyes as being parts of ourselves that are longing for love, and which desire to be "healed", "wholed"?

This is our world, a projection of our conscious, and we have the capability to direct it in any way we want.

Which way do you, and we, all other humans, want to direct it to?

That is the question.

But having that liberty, cannot be disconnected from our responsibility towards it.

So what choice do you/we wish to make?

Best regards.


zzron profile image

zzron 5 years ago from Houston, TX.

Great hub. I believe anything is possible but this I believe is highly unlikely to happen given what is written in Revelations.


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Hi Dawn yes agree intent or choice. Thanks for stopping by!


Dawn71 profile image

Dawn71 5 years ago from UK

Really enjoyed reading this, I like your perception ;) I do not believe in the devil/satan as a being that exists as an independent energy, the name to me, the label or identity to me is a representative/representation of the intent or choice of negativity.

Thought provoking stuff!


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

That makes pure sense to me! That is very wise. Thank you!


Antoine Van Hove 5 years ago

About light and shadow:

If we put the light outside ourselves, we throw a shadow, which very much scares us.

If we put it inside, no shadow can be thrown, since there is no resistance on which shadows are able to form.


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

High Pieter, In answer to your question, No, I don't think you can have one without the other. And yes It could very well be an attempt to describe God's shadow. Thank you for stopping by. Will check out what you have to post.


PieterTheProphet profile image

PieterTheProphet 5 years ago

Great stuff. I really like how you think! I believe that you are attempting to describe the universe. Tough to do. I hear a symphony of galactic proportions. Light and sound and order from chaos. I've got something for you..I will post it shortly. Thanks for that.

About Satan. Can there be light with out shadow? If God is a name for that good in the universe we can barely describe can not Satan be an attempt to describe God's shadow?


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Hi Nell, agree we are in charge of our own good or bad actions. Thank you for stopping by!


Nell Rose profile image

Nell Rose 5 years ago from England

Hi, a very well thought out hub, I also don't really believe in the devil, not as we percieve him these days, I do believe that there is something that controls all life from the smallest atom to the largest star, but I also believe that we are in charge of our bad actions and our good, to blame God or Satan is just a way of disociating our own blame, great hub, nell


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Marliza: Relationship with God a Man? Or God a presence within? If it is presence I hear you. I am not sure what evangelize means? Does that mean save? Agree that Jesus had good and bad and overcome the tendency to be either or. I understand Jesus died for our sins. Yet sins as it is generally understood still remains in the world. So I am not sure how he could have taken it with him. Jesus demonstrated well how we could have that relationship with God. He also demonstrated well how we could rise above the concepts of good and evil that religious leaders advocated. Although he knew before hand Judas will betray him he still embraced him with love. Forgiveness is a powerful thing to possess why would Satan not be forgiven.

Thanks for stopping by

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Whowantono: (neat name by the way) Interesting way you put it. The authors are man in my opinion of both. There is no win or lose, good or bad, upstream in the flow of mind. Given Jesus history I think he defeated what is perceived as Satan more often than not. There were many times in his days in the desert. Thanks for stopping by

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Scriber1: Thank you. Your comments are always appreciated.

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Dave: I would say Satan (as is commonly understood) cannot be trusted in temoral form. Thank you.

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Qwark: Haha you made me laugh big time. Thats where we came from...nothing!


qwark profile image

qwark 5 years ago

Hi Penny:

...very well written and thought out "hub" on the subjects of "nothing!" :-)

I couldn't have made "sumthin'" out of "nuthing'" better than you just did!

You took "zilch" and "intellectualized it magnificently!

:-)

Qwark :-)


Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews 5 years ago from NORTH YORK,ONTARIO,CANADA

If Lucifer were to ask Jesus for forgiveness, and if Jesus felt he could be trusted to mean it and repent, then Jesus has the power to forgive Lucifer. The real question is could Lucifer ever be trusted to be sincere in his asking and would he truly be repentant of all the sins he has caused.


scriber1 5 years ago

It is a wise and realized human who can and does grasp that green is only relevant and real when compared to blue. And bless your heart, perception is in fact the truth.


HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 5 years ago

Satan is a loser and he wants the whole world "people" to be losers like him.

Loser what you mean???

Simple If God "Jesus Christ" is the author of being a winner and all win, then someone has to be the author of being a loser

Besides Jesus Christ defeated Satan three times, and Satan was the loser three times.

Hallelujah "Praise God"


Marliza Gunter profile image

Marliza Gunter 5 years ago from South Africa

I know the man personally and no, you won't be able to evangelize Satan..maybe you're confusing Jesus with Satan..Jesus, according to author Rick Joyner, Jesus has both good and bad within Him, He took all sin within Himself and crucified and conquered it on the Cross. Satan is a whole different story, he is and was the ruler angel that fell from heaven and is now sore at us for his throbbing migraine.. :)


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Thinking can sometimes be good even when we do not agree. As I mentioned in the hub it may be an ongoing debate that may never end.

I don't think God or Satan (or our perceptions of the two) cause bad things to happen or good things to happen. In my view we are all connected to God so we all participate in one way or another (through actions or thoughts) toward what arises and eventually manifests. Personally or collectively.

It is how we perceive what arises that makes all the difference.

Thanks for being open and giving your honest opinion. I like that you are steadfast to your beliefs. It is an admirable quality,


Treasuresofheaven profile image

Treasuresofheaven 5 years ago from Michigan

You express yourself very cleverly. Interesting to think, God can cause bad things (or what we perceive as bad) to happen. However, Satan is only evil and bad. God is our Father, like a parent. Satan comes to kill, still and destroy - no good in him. Thanks for the Hub, makes one think. Nice photos too!


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

Hi Erin, Yes I cherish those words too. You are quite right I don't believe in hell or Satan. Our perceptions are quite powerful and can sometimes create not only a living hell but a belief that one exists in a literal sense. Not taking responsibility can often lead to blaming something or someone outside ourselves. When we are able to take responsibility, these creations of our own doing will dissipate with ease. Like you say it will make us the strongest we can be and move the world and spirits to be all that they can be too! You are a beautiful soul.

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Antoine: Just as I knew Erin would, I knew you would understand. I agree it is thinking that we are separated that can cause much ado. When really we are not as you say. Yes and saving Satan is a symbol of saving ourselves.

Thank you my dearest for once again giving such wise feedback.


Antoine Van Hove 5 years ago

Penny, that what we call Satan, or evil, are simply parts of ourselves that think themselves being disconnected from the whole. The only thing they ask for is to be transformed to love, which is the whole.

So, if everythins is "one" there can be in essence no such thing as Satan, not can it be liberated.

Therefore: Concepts like Satan, are only products and projections of our minds who feel isolated from the whole, and they represent our deep longing to "reconnect" with the whole.

Since we were never really disconnected, it was only our illusion of disconnection, which wants to EXPERIENCE "the being connected again".

Saving Satan, becomes than the symbol of saving ourselves, by allowing the Devine into our hearts again.

Thank you, my dearest friend, for this sincere, open and daring investigation!


Erin LeFey profile image

Erin LeFey 5 years ago from Maryland

I cherish the word 'kindred spirits' and always enjoy reading your words. I think that was a probing question...I didn't think you believed in hell either, but were referring to people's perception of it. And I like how you added "being blamed" - I've always believed that the strongest we can be as human kind is the day we will all stand up and take personal responsibility for our actions and move to make this world and our spirits all they could be. Namaste' my friend and sister.


pennyofheaven profile image

pennyofheaven 5 years ago from New Zealand Author

We are indeed kindred spirits Erin. I agree with all that you say. I had to chuckle when you asked saved from what? Saved from being the blamed!Saved from what some people perceive as eternal hell. In other words perception.


Erin LeFey profile image

Erin LeFey 5 years ago from Maryland

Beautiful hub Penny, well thought out and wonderful imagery. I don't believe in Satan however and don't feel the need for blaming anyone for any so called "evils" or shortcomings in myself or this world. People are flawed, God or by whatever name you use for the creator/All is not. Divine energy is just that...Pure, divine and flawless. And I believe our souls are moving in that direction. Mistakes and failures are lessons we learn, not to be punished or led by an evil master into bad deeds, but just not flawless. The human condition.

I don't think we are that far apart except in the names. I feel that way toward all the world's religions. I love how you expressed yourself and I think its beautiful. One question though. Saved from what?

Namaste'

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