God's Kingdom now

Understanding God's Kingdom and Covenants

(Please read my notice of correction following the end of my Hub)


Jesus Christ said in Matthew 6:33 (KJV) " But seek first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."


But what I have discovered is most mainstream christian are not seeking the Kingdom of God, but in fact, they are searching for the "true" Church or Religion.

We fail to see how God's covenants with man is directly related to the Kingdom of God. We do not even know what the true covenants are. For example. most everyone I know believes God gave Moses one covenant in the Old Testament. However, I can provide proof God gave Moses not one but TWO covenants.

Deuteronomy 29:1 states: These are the words of the COVENANT which the Lord commanded Moses to give to the children of Isreal in the land of Moab; BESIDES the COVENANT which He made with them in Horeb.


(For those who don't know Horeb is the land area around Mt. Sinai)

Moses goes on to say in Deuteronomy 31: 24 thru 27 which states: 24. So it was, when Moses had completed writting the words of this Law in the Book, when they were finished; 25 that Moses commanded the Levites,who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying; 26 Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be a witness against you; 17 for I know your rebellion and your stiff neck. If TODAY, while I am with you, you have been rebellious against the Lord, then how much more after my death?

So my point in this, if Moses was repeating the first covenant given to him by God, then why would he write it again in the Book of the Law as noted in verse 24?

Without a doubt both covenants are closely related but at the same time very different. If one would take the time and with careful study they will see it.

Also, if one would research the word Deuteronomy they wil discover the Greek word for it is: deuteronomion; Deuteros meaning SECOND and Nomos meaning LAW (Second Law). So why doesn't christian religion reveal this to all christians? Shouldn't this be important for us to be aware of ? Doesn't this have an effect on the Old Covenant? And yet, we never hear about this in mainstream churches.

I find all the above verses important to note, because mainstream christian churches seem to miss this fact of TWO covenants given to Moses from God. So until we get all of God's covenants with man right, we all will have a hard time "Seeking the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness.

His Convenants are the reasons God gave us the Book of Revelation. Without the Book of Revelation his covenants with man can not be completely fulfilled.

We must further understand that not all covenants from God apply to just mankind as noted in the Book of Genesis chapter 9 . And yet this too has a role in God's Kingdom. Just in the Book of Genesis alone God gives two covenants for two different reasons. The Book of Geneses is the only Book which contians two covenants, one covenant applies to all of mankind and all animals of the earth and the other covenant which God made with Abraham and his seed. At least one of these two covenants in Genesis will have an impact on how end time events will and will not occur.

The reason I believe we have so much problems within christian religion today and in the past is the lack of OUR understanting of the full CONTEXTS in which the covenants were meant by God. This explains the lack of unity in what we believe to be the Body of Christ. The real Body of Christ, who ever they are, understands the CONTEXTS of the covenants or they are on their way to understanding by "Seeking the Kingdom of God and His righteousness", FRIST.

Therefore all covenants God has with man directly effects the Book of Revelation to it's last page.

And finally I wish to remind everyone of something that Jesus Christ once said in Luke 17: part of verse 21:

" For indeed, the Kingdom of God is within YOU."


Notice of correction: Althought I still feel the part of this Hub relating to the two covenants given to Moses still applies, I wish to correct my initial understanding. In a number of my comments following this Hub, I have provided my initial understanding that the second covenant, which at first I had believed started in Deuteromony chapter 6 and continue through to chapter 31. But as it turns out I was wrong. Based on evidence pointed out to me from a fellow christian Hubber, I now realized my err. The covenant mentioned in Deuteromony 29: 1( which is mentioned in the Hub) is referring to a second covenant which STARTS at Chapter 29 and ends around the mid point of chapter 31. This, I now believe, is the second covenant given to Moses.

It is my hope that you, (the reader ) will take this notice into account if and when you read my comments this notice is referring too.

I wish to thank this fellow christian Hubber for his insight and pointing out my initial err.



More by this Author


Comments 78 comments

Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

Interesting hub. It sound like you mean to say that following the second covenant is how to achieve admittance into the kingdom of God. That sounds a bit religious. Voted up.


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Ericdierker

Thank you for your comment.

My point is that God has made covenants with man throughout history. Each covenant had/ has a purpose that lead us to His Kingdom. It also inclued the birth and later the death on earth of His son Jesus Christ. Without God's covenants throughout the ages we would not have a chance to enter God's Kingdom. The reason I mentioned the second covenant that was given to Moses is to show how we as christians miss and/or leave out important facts that still points to the Kingdom of God. Many christian religions tend to leave out important fact in that bible to suit their doctrine in many cases. My point, when was the last time you heard a minister, peacher or anyone else behind a pulpit mention the second covenant given to Moses? And yet I showed you proof in Deuteronomy If one take a close look at Deuteronomy Chater 5 all the way to the end of Chapter 31 you will see that it is a second covenant, not a repeat of the first covenant. The 10 commandment are mentioned again in the second covenant given to Moses, but after that the laws given are very different starting at Deuteronomy Chapter 6 This is an important matter as it relate to the nation of Isreal in the past, present and in the future. What we now call the New Covenant in the NT without a doubt has been establish since Jesus Christ's death on the cross. But still each covenant has it's purpose.

The second covenant( given to Moses) was the Laws to be established once Isreal crossed the Jordon river into Canaan. At that point Isreal became a Kingdom with their own homeland and God ruled over them. That is not to say He did not rule over them before crossing the Jordon because He did. For forty years God rule over Isreal based on the first covenant He made with the children of Isreal on Mt. Sinai. And this first covenant laws applied to the whole nation of Isreal until they reached the land of Moab. Which is where the second covenant was revealed.

The Book of Revelation is the final revelation of the covenants God made with man. And nothing is going to change that.


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

You have one point wrong. I preach and I preach about the covenants. I do not dilineate as sharply as you, as I believe they are all to be more absorbed into our consciousness than studied as factual/historical.

The bottom line on all covenants with God: They clearly are not for God's benefit but for ours. Also I would be more inclined to go with the notion that Christ freed us from the Law. Hence the covenants no longer bind us.


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Ericdierker, thank you again.

The Laws in God's Kingdom in heaven far exceed those stanards of Laws that He had given to man in Covenants. For example, if you look at what Jesus said in Matthew 5: 21 and 22 which states:

21You have heard that it was said to those of old, " You shall not murder." and whoever murders will be in danger of judgement. 22 But I say to you whoever is angry with his brother with out cause shall be in danger of judgement. And whoever says to his brother, "Raca" shall be in danger of council. But whoever says, "You fool" shall be in danger of hell fire.

Verse 22 gives us a glimpes into God's Kingdom Law. It's a standard of law much higher than any man can achive. Jesus Christ was/ is a walking example of Kingdom law. He continues in other verse to discribe more if you read on in the rest of chapter 5 after verse 22 to the end of the chapter.

You are right in that Jesus Christ death on the cross ended the Old Covenants laws. Christians and Jews alike should now follow the New Covenant. However, if you understand Revelations 20: 7 thru 10 the Old Covenant laws will be seen again in that time for the Kingdom of Isreal.


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

You know I think on a practical level - old might be better for that one tribe. They are a stubborn group.


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Ericdierker, again thank you

I may sound a bit radical and should tone it down a bit.


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 4 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

I would not hurry to tone it down. We Christians need reminders.


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Ericdierker, thanks again

I should not fail to mention, but God also made a covenant with the animals of earth and many of us fail to remember that. This too is important in God's Kingdom.


Mommy Needs a Nap profile image

Mommy Needs a Nap 4 years ago from Arkansas

Definitely some food for thought. Thanks graceinus. I'm also voting up.


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Mommy Needs a Nap, I wish to thank you for your comment (and vote). I should mention that I did edite my HUB after your comment. and it's possible I may edite again later. Many thanks


Michael-Milec profile image

Michael-Milec 4 years ago

A very interesting constellation : Two Covennants and the Kingdom of God.

A reader expect ample information to support sufficient undisclosed connection throughout the history of mankind. The sequences of enweaven the Kingdom / Covennants .

You've pointed to interesting moment of The Lord Jesus' saying , Matt.6:33 , though this came after previously stated :" repent " for the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN/GOD is at hand , Matt . 3:2; 4:17.

Seemingly without any previous connection to the before mentioned Covennats, the reality of the kingdom of heaven/ God is, -- already -- is your , YOU poor in the spirit , ( Matt. 5:3 ;Luke 6:20 )

As you pointed to the " mainstream Christians " n o t seeking the kingdom of God -- seams occurrance of the OT " people of God" , namely disobedience ( 1. Sam. 15: 22 )

In God's words " they worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by man " Matt 15: 8-9 v also Isa. 29: 13 .

Following your statement , "God has made covenants with man throughout history," leads to a conclusion it is always a man not keeping the covenants...

Never giving up on His man , God introduces yet an original concept : individual relationship based upon a personal righteousness, right standing of a man wit God.

The kingdom of God/ heaven stands : The Lord Jesus saying " unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the techers of the law you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven/God ." Matt. 5:20

What do we see, Matt. 5: 20 is preceding of Matt 6 : 33 ; by God' s design, Habakkuk 2:4 as well as Rom. 1:16 --as it is written, the man who through faith is just nd upright, shall live and shall live by faith...

Epilogue : ..." without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him... Heb. 11 : 6


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Thank you for your comment Michael-Milec

I believe your comment helped validate my HUB. I would like to make one thing very clear that ties every thing I've said together

Just as the Tree of Life once stood in the center of the Garden of Eden, so it will stand again in in the center of the New Jerusalem. The heart of the Kingdom of God.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

graceinus

Thank you for your hub it is very interesting. I agree with it. There are many churches today that just don't teach , well anything. I have gone to churches, that teach/preach only from one verse in the bible. At this point I do go to a bible study, but do not go to a church. They mostly sing. And the ones on TV just want money. I am not very good at writing words, but learning is wonderful.


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Michele Travis

I wish to thank you for your comment is this HUB and I hope you will will continue to study the Word of God throughout your life time.

I would only like to pass on to you something I learned.

Jesus Christ demonstrated His LAST ACT OF GRACE as a man while dying on the cross, he spoke these last few words:

Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

That is true. Jesus asked His Father to forgive us for crucifying Him. That to me, is amazing. Even while being crucified, Jesus was praying for our sins!

Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

That act of love, makes me feel like crying. We are not worth it, but God still forgives us, but only if we truly ask for forgiveness. Not just use the words, but honestly want to be forgiven.


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

@Michele, why would you say "we are not worth it"? Christ obviously thought we were, or he would not of done what He did. Christians should encourage Christians to stop putting both us and God in two boxes, and start making the kingdom of God visable to the world through trust, faith and love. A pearl thrown in mud does not lose its value, and that is what we all are.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

SwordofManticor, what I meant was we are all sinners. I also meant, that God and Jesus loved All of us so much that Jesus was willing to be crucified for our sins, so we could be forgiven. God made us, we are his children. I did not say we are worthless. I just meant we are sinners. Please forgive me for the words I used. It is just amazing how much God loves us.


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

@Michele and @SwordofManticorE, I would like to thank you both for your comments. But without sound like, we as mankind should have an ego, but I believe God had place more value on us than the known univesre itself. Because He created it for OUR eyes to see, so that we could realize HIS greatness.


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

@Michele, His love for all is greater than we can understand sister.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

SwordofManticorE I agree with you.


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 4 years ago

Nice Hub. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world, James 1:27. Have a good day.


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Well lionswhelp, I was wondering if and when you would show up. Although it might help me if you could explain your comment so that I know what you're talking about and how it relates to this HUB.

You have a good day too.


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 4 years ago from Fontana

Matthew chapter 6 is about material things. The 32 verses before verse 33 are about greed, money, possesions, and things that take our attention away from God. I don't see the relationship between this verse and OT covenants. The purpose of Christ's birth, death, and resurrection was so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting light. There are many new testament Scriptures that speak of eternal life. I am not aware of any that look back beyond the cross to the OT. Salvation is about a personal relationship with Christ - not a building or a group of people.


Michael-Milec profile image

Michael-Milec 4 years ago

Hi, dianetrotter,

this brings a bit closer to the matter:

The opening statement of te Lord Jesus' coming is in promotion theKingdom :

"Blessed are those who know their spiritual need ; the kingdom of heaven is their."

"Blessed are you poor ; the kingdom of God is yours ." ( Matt.5:3;Luke 6:20) TNT

The kingdom of God/heaven interchangeably the same IS yours -respectively in order of His redeeming work, including His Lordship. his salvation thus God's rule in the hearts of men, -- the God's kingdom ruling in the hearts of His - the KINGS children.


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 4 years ago from Fontana

Thank you Michael. I should have proofread. "life" not "light." After I wrote I did some online research. I hadn't really thought much about the Kingdom of God. I won't comment on it again unless I know what I'm talking about. Have a blessed evening!


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Michael-Milac, thank you for your help explaining the Kingdom of God issue. Your effort is a big help. God Bless

dianetrotter, Thanks again for commenting. I hope that you will continue your research into the Kingdom of God. It awesome. And God Bless.


Michael-Milec profile image

Michael-Milec 4 years ago

@

dianetrotter, thanks for continuing conversation. It's essentially needed. Being a beginner, you, and everyone is helping me to better start.

You did say correctly, about beyond the cross.

Keep writing, please.


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 4 years ago from Fontana

Bless you Michael. I just returned from the hospital - day surgery cortisone shot for complications with hip replacement. I'll be up to it in a couple of days.


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

dianetrotter, I hope you recover soon and up and on you feet. Like Michael-Milec said ; it is about beyound the cross. The Kingdom of God is for all of us if we would just open our eyes and see.

Please keep commenting.

Many blessing to eveyone who commented.


Michael-Milec profile image

Michael-Milec 4 years ago

@ dianetrotter

Certainly, you feel and you are completely well .

Being in the same situation, one full replacement on the other side only broken hip fixed, my attention goes toward any info. regarding .

Thankfully, or thank God forever, the only reminder to my fixed, screwed and platinum- porcelain added portion is when in conversation. Otherwise , a 100% in use, no pain, no medication. Some restriction yes, being very observant, yes but some of these comes with maturity and experiences.

Blessings.


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 4 years ago from Fontana

Hi Michael, It seems like the cortisone shot is helping some. Time will tell. In the meantime, my knees are also creeking! I've had 3 surgeries on 1 knee and 2 on the other. I will not get replacements until my hip is together. Ah! You are on your way to being bionic also. Wait til we get those glorified bodies!


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 4 years ago from Fontana

Thank you Graceinus! Be blessed until we meet.


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 4 years ago

This is what true religion is according to God's word Gracinus. Blessings. Write more.


graceinus 4 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Lionswhelp, thank you for your comment. I have much to say about the Kingdom of God that was tought through the ministry of Jesus Christ. However I think it important to note that Jesus Christ was not the first person to mentioned God's Kindom nor even John the Baptist. The FIRST person to teach of the Kingdom of God was a Gentile in the Old Testament named King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon when he spoke these words in the Book of Daniel 4:34,35 (NKJV) which he states the following:

34 And at the end of the time, I Nebuchadnezzar lifted my eyes to the heavens, and my understanding returned to me; and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever; For His dominion is an everlasting dominion; And His KINGDOM is from generation to generation. 35. All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven. And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, "What have You done?"

This verse above is the first teaching that I'm aware of where a gentile is the first to mention God's Kingdom. And of all people, it was the King of Babylon. And what I fing most interesting is that these were the last writen words from King Nebuchadezzar in the Bible.

Many blessing to all.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

Good but there is one correction. Abrahams covenant was to his seed singular (Christ) it was the covenant of Christ He was promised


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

celafoe- Thanks for bring it to my attention and I will make the correction shortly. Many thanks for your comment too. God Bless.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 3 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

Graceinus,

(" For indeed, the Kingdom of God is within YOU.")

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. - Luke 17:20-21 KJV

The word “within" in the Greek is “entos,” translated to mean, “in the midst of”. It should be understood that Jesus was saying that the Kingdom of God was within their midst, or among them. This would mean that wherever Jesus was, the kingdom accompanied Him. It does not mean inside man because of whom Jesus was addressing (the Pharisees); they rejected Jesus and his teachings.


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

PandN- I don't believe Jesus was trying to say that the Kingdom of God was within the Pharisees. But, in this verse I believe He was refering to Himself. I don't believe the Pharisees had any understanding of God's Kingdom and therefore had know idea what Jesus was trying to tell them. I believe that Jesus talked, walked and lived the standard of God's Kingdom throughout His life time on this earth. Where ever He went, the Kingdom of God was with Him. He was in their midst and that says it all.

I also believe that there are those who truely seek the Kingdom of God and His Rightieousness and that through the Holy Spirit and study of God's word it is revelated to them how God's Kingdom works. It takes spirit mindedness, for without it, one can not understand. Thank you PandN, I look forward to seeing more of your comments. God Bless.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 3 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

graceinus,

What I was attempting to allude to was that many people use this verse prove that the kingdom of God is not a visible dominion of God to be established upon earth in the hands of the Lord Jesus Christ when He returns from heaven, but a spiritual reign of Christ in the hearts of believers.

The Pharisees were "blind" because they could not discern that the kingdom of God was plainly in their midst.

And the scribes and Pharisees WATCHED HIM, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him. - Luke 6:7

And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they WATCHED HIM. - Luke 14:1

The Kingdom of God was openly revealed to those that followed Jesus when He was on the earth. The kingdom of God that manifested with Jesus was about getting the Jews to grasp His divine dominion on earth.

The Gospel, on the other hand, is about the purpose of grace that comes only through Jesus Christ; whereas, the kingdom of God is about the culmination of God's promise on earth as it is in heaven when Jesus Christ returns.

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. - Revelation 11:15

The kingdom of God is a physical manifestation, but the invisible spiritual kingdom (grace) is the power of God that works through His bride.


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

PandN- Thanks for clarifying. And I believe you are absolutely correct. Even now days people are still without understanding of just what Jesus represented while He was on this earth. That everything about Jesus was the kingdom of God. As you also mentioned Grace, this too was demostrated time and again by Jesus while He was on this earth. When He healed the sick, raised the dead, cast out demons, and much more, these were all acts of grace. Christians must understand not to limit their understanding of His Grace. It's more than just forgiving, it's God's Kingdom standard. However, faith plays the most important part in this. Jesus had absolute faith, but equally important was His absolute lack of doubt. This was the key. Jesus knew He was the Son of God.

Many, many thanks the you PandN


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

I believe there is some confusion here. Please explain to me if I missed something. All of deut up to verse 29 is a repeat and expanded detail of what was previously given see

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone. 14 And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might observe them in the land which you cross over to possess.

NKJV

Verse 29 contains another covenant, not previously given, a promise from God that after they fall away from God and lose the promise land and then Repent, He will forgive them and restore to them the promise land . See chapter 30

what he is talking about follows his beginning in both instances not vice versa chap 29 talks about chap 30, not previous


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Celafoe- Thanks for your comment and I will explain it as best that I can. If you read Deut 5: 2-3 (NKJV) which states: 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here TODAY, all of us who are ALIVE.

((This verse above was stated by Moses in the Land of Moab after the 40 years in the wilderness)

I understand this verse to mean that there were two covenants given to Moses in Horeb (Mt. Sinai) The first was for the Children of Isreal that they had to follow during ( what came to be) their forty years in the wilderness. Which Moses revealed to the Children of Isreal while they were still camped at the base of Mt. Sinai. The seconded covenant I believe Moses was already made aware of by God BUT had not yet revealed it to the Children of Isreal. So this second Covenant Moses kepted seceret until they reached Moab just before they were to cross the Jorden into Canaan.

Then it continues in Chapter 5 where the 10 Commandments is repeated. BUT only the 10 Commandments. Starting in Chapter 6 then all the way unitl Chapter 31 (Which is Moses revealing the second covenant to the children of Isreal) . Now note one of the first commands given in the (second) Covenant. Chapter 6 in Deut. Note Deut 6:5-6 NKJV states: 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strenght.

This is the first time ever mention to the children of Isreal the COMMAND to love God. It is not mention in Exodus or Leviticus, which I'm sure you are aware that these two Books outlined the first covnant given to Moses.

Then everything described in this (second) covenant from Deut 6: 6 all the way through Deut Chapter 31 is different than the first covenant described in Exodus and Leviticus. Although BOTH ARE RELATED, they are both very different. The only thing that stood the same as mentioned were the 10 Commandment which had been repeated in Deuteromony.

You will notice that nothing or very little is mention in Deuteromony regarding the tabernacle (that was basicly mobile which could be packed up and moved around) that the tribe of Levi was resposible for. The reason for this is once the Nation of Isreal would finally settle in Canaan there would be a permenent tabernacle built which is mention in Deuteromony. There are so many more differences between the two covenants that I could continue to mention. But it would be much easier for me if you just compared the two for yourself.

It is possible I have some errs or my understanding could be misguided. And I am opened to hearing others explain.

In any case I thank you celafoe for your comment. If for any reasons this comment of mine needs more explaining for clarity or any other reason, then just ask.

Again Many thanks


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

wow it is cool to have someone that i can have an intelligent discussion with. That is willing to work together so we both find the only 1 truth.

I cannot see it that way, I see one covenant of the law reinforced by a 2nd more detailed application to remind them as they are close to entering the land.

you said " The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here TODAY, all of us who are ALIVE.

to me This is saying that this covenant which was given to us and not to our fathers, because most of them had died off by this time. And then a detailed repeat of the covenant.

the 2nd covenant is in 29-1 and then he explains what is going to happen to them, they will fall away and then gives the covenant , what He will do for them when they repent.

it is 30-1 thru 11.

I await you comments.


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Celafoe- I have to admitt I'm , for the first time in a while, am really enjoying thiy. So. with that said allow me to ask you this question.

As noted in the verse you and I both mentioned, If this covenant was not was not made to the Father's, then what covenant did the father's get. If the one the father's received was different then would it not be two covenants?

Thanks.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

This covenant was given to all of them starting in Exodus 20, but the fathers had to die, before they could enter the promise land, so they could not actually partake of it because it really was not in use until all the fathers died and they started to the river.

Deut 6:1 "Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the Lord your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, 2 that you may fear the Lord your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged.

See God has had him say this several time to these hard hearted people trying to get them to understand, and yet they still went astray after all the warnings, and that as God knew they would is the reason for God to make the (minor but lifesaving to them) covenant Deut 29 and 30 thruu about vs 16 explain the reasons for needed it and then what it is. which is He will take them back and bless them after they repent.

now-- your thoughts

so great to have another to toss things around with to find the truths


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Celafore- Are you says or suggesting, as an example that the First covenant is one covenant with 2 parts ( Exodus part 1 and Deuteromony part 2). And then the Second Covenant begins at Deut 29 and ends at 30? It may make sense, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Your thoughts

Thanks


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

No I believe it is all one and he is just explaining it in more detail

based on deut 1 verse 5

Deut 1:5 On this side of the Jordan in the land of Moab, Moses began to explain this law, saying, 6 "The Lord our God spoke to us in Horeb, saying: 'You have dwelt long enough at this mountain. 7 Turn and take your journey, and go to the mountains of the Amorites, to all the neighboring places in the plain, in the mountains and in the lowland, in the South and on the seacoast, to the land of the Canaanites and to Lebanon, as far as the great river, the River Euphrates. 8 See, I have set the land before you; go in and possess the land which the Lord swore to your fathers — to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob — to give to them and their descendants after them.'

NKJV

your turn


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

celafoe- I now believe with all the evidence that you have pointed out, that you are correct. That there still are two covenant, but the second covenant STARTS at Deut 29 and ends in 30. I will need to edit this Hub or delete it altogether.

The second covenant starting Deut 29 is still important to note and should not be dismissed. So it is most likely I will have to edit. And more likely do so in the coming week.

celafoe- I am very greatful for your input and comments. I look forward to many more of them in the future.

My many thanks.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

Yes, I think it is worth noting and I have never bothered with it before (2nd) but will now.

Thank you. I look forward to more too because there are a some things I have not found truth that I am looking for on that you may have or we can find together

God bless you my Brother


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Celafoe- This is just a follow up on your last comment regarding the second covenant given to Moses. I've obtained new information that may give stronger evidence to my initial thoughts on the second covenant given to Moses. The word deuteromomy comes from the Greek word deuteronomion which is deuteros,meaning Second and nomos meaning Law. Therefore Deuteronomy means Secound Law. I now have good reason to think my initial thoughts on this may have been correct. Please let me know what you think.

The word was defined from the Webster's II New Riverside University Dictioanry. I found it while researching another subject.

Many blessings.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

good morning my brother. Finally getting caught up a bit. In looking at Deut, I see in 1;3 that this takes place 40 yrs after the law was given and Moses is repeating the law and explaining it to them vs 1;5 in preparation to them entering the new land without him. . Then in vs 1:8 we see that the reason is that now God is sending them to possess the land that He had given them the first time. So to me it appears that this is the SECOND Reading and fulfillment of the promise to give them the land. So it definitely is the 2nd reading of and explanation of and the fulfillment of the beginning of the new part of their inheritance. I would then have to agree to being a 2nd application. But it was not an additional or any new law, but a continuation of the unfolding of the promises made 40 yrs earlier.

The difference being now was time (all the older folks were dead and Moses is about to die) to possess the land, that being the 2nd command.

I think the only difference we have would be in semantics? let me know what you think

God bless you for your desire to understand scripture . Together we will learn more truth


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

celafoe- Your explaination makes sense. The second command being two parts of one covenant as mentioned before. I will stick with our understanding we had 5 or 6 comment ago. Second covenant STARTS a chapter 29. Thanks again celafoe.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

bless you my brother keep up the good works


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 3 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

Wow. Just read again and all the comments. A very worthy hub and exchange to meditate on.

Thank you again my friend.


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Eric- thank you for reviewing this Hub again. I does seem like we get more out of something the second time a round. And your comments are always welcomed.


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 3 years ago

The Kingdom of God is in those that have God's Holy Spirit, see 1 Corinthians 3:16 and 6:9. We are not our own we belong to God when we are begotten by the Father's Royal Seed, Jesus Christ. Also Jesus and our Heavenly Father will come and dwell in us John 14:23.

Yes, Moses needed to remnd those Israelites first hand. All their parents had died off except for Joshua, Caleb and Phineas during their trip in the wilderness of 40 years. Moses would soon die and needed to remind these younger people of Israel. They had a tendacy to forget things from God very quickly.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

please give me scripture to support your statement about phineas

Num 14:30-33 Except for Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun, you shall by no means enter the land which I swore I would make you dwell in. 31 But your little ones, whom you said would be victims, I will bring in, and they shall know the land which you have despised. 32 But as for you, your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness.

NKJV

Num 14:38

38 But Joshua the son of Nun and Caleb the son of Jephunneh remained alive, of the men who went to spy out the land.

NKJV

Num 26:65

" So there was not left a man of them, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.

NKJV


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

lionwhelp- Could you please show me what verse in the bible states "Father's Royal Seed, Jesus Christ"? I don't believe I have seen this term used in the bible. And of all the one's who had left Egypt only Joshua and Caleb were the only two, who were still living, allowed to enter the land God had promised. Even Moses was not allowed to enter the promise land. As I'm sure you know Moses died a short time earlier, just before the children of Israel crossed over the Jordon river.


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Deborah- I don't expect anyone to just take my word for anything I have writen in this Hub or any other Hub's I have writen relating to teachings in the bible. I would hope that anyone reading what ever I have writen to read the bible and verses for themselves. I have writen only what I have come to understand. What I have pointed out in this Hub to include the correction is what I understand the bible to be saying. It is clear to myself that there are two covenants.

I believe I made this point in another comment relating to Deuteronomy 31: 24-26 (NKJV) which states: So it was when Moses had completed writing the words of the Law in a book, when they were finished 25 that Moses commanded the Levities, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord saying; take this book of the Law; and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you............

First question, if it is not a second covenant then what is it that was just writen and placed in the ark? Second question- if it was the first covenant writen again then why write it again 40 years later to be a witness against them? Third Question- if it is not a second covenant then what is the purpose for Deuteronomy 29:1-15? It would make no sense. Forth question- if it is the first covenant rewriten then why does it include gentiles now but it did not before? I could keep going asking more question but I believe I made my point.

Have a good day.


Deborah Sexton 3 years ago

You say you wrote this hub to show you see two covenants and I am commenting to show how it is one reinstated with people who did not understand and are being confirmed

As I said they were waiting for the word from God to cross the Jordan and enter the Land of Promise But before that could take place certain other events had to happen

But they were a new generation (children-adults) born in the 40 years of wandering. They did not understand the covenant until God opened their eyes that day.

***Deuteronomy 29

4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day***

Since God opened their eyes there had to be a ceremony to that covenant (they were being confirmed) . To show agreement on both sides. (entered into the covenant) Not like the others who agreed and sinned (broke the covenant) the whole time. Moses explained the covenant to them and now they understood

***Deuteronomy 29

9 Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.

10 Ye stand this day all of you before the Lord your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,

11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:

12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God, and into his oath, which the Lord thy God maketh with thee this day:

14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;

15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:***

It was written in the book of the law so that if anyone broke the covenant everyone would know why there were plagues and sicknesses, and so they and their children and their children’s children could do the words of the law.

***Deuteronomy 29

21 And the Lord shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the Lord hath laid upon it;

29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.***

Moses explained

You are standing here in order to enter into a covenant with the Lord your God, a covenant the Lord is making with you this day and sealing with an oath, to confirm you this day as his people, that he may be your God as he promised you and as he swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I am making this covenant, with its oath, not only with you who are standing here with us today in the presence of the Lord our God but also with those who are not here today.

Do not break the covenant When such a person hears the words of this oath and they invoke a blessing on themselves, thinking, “I will be safe, even though I persist in going my own way,” they will bring disaster on the watered land as well as the dry. The Lord will never be willing to forgive them; his wrath and zeal will burn against them. All the curses written in this book will fall on them, and the Lord will blot out their names from under heaven. The Lord will single them out from all the tribes of Israel for disaster, according to all the curses of the covenant written in this Book of the Law.

All the nations will ask: “Why has the Lord done this to this land? Why this fierce, burning anger?”

And the answer will be: “It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the covenant he made with them when he brought them out of Egypt. They went off and worshiped other gods and bowed down to them, gods they did not know, gods he had not given them. Therefore the Lord’s anger burned against this land, so that he brought on it all the curses written in this book. In furious anger and in great wrath the Lord uprooted them from their land and thrust them into another land, as it is now.”

They’ll know because they can read it in the book of the law


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Deborah- I have made my point and will not go further with you on this. You may believe what ever you wish.


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

None


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 3 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

Graceinus,

These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, *beside* the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. - Deuteronomy 29:1

The covenant of Sinai is different than the one made in Moab.

It could be called the "second" covenant or "renewed," but the fact is that they are not the same covenants.

Which things are an allegory: for these are the *two* covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. - Galatians 4:24

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the *second*. - Hebrews 8:7

The temporary Moab covenant ended through the shed blood of Jesus Christ for ALL without the judgement (misphat) of the Law.

It is interesting that that covenant made at Mount Sinai was specifically made for the children of Israel, but the Moab covenant includes “thy stranger that is in thy camp” (Deuteronomy 29:11).

The Old Covenant is the one that ratified the law of Moses.

Israel could not keep the Sinai Covenant, nor could they keep the Moab Covenant. In contrast, the laws of the New Covenant are part of the renewed minds and hearts of God's people who are motivated to worship and obey Him.

When the Kingdom of God physically arrives those who have God's commands written on their hearts will have access to New Jerusalem.

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. - Revelation 22:14

On a separate note:

Israel is called the "wife of Jehovah" but the Church is called the "bride of the Messiah." Do you believe Israel and the Church have distinct roles in God's Kingdom? Some believe that the Church has taken the place of Israel, while others believe that Scripture reveals them be separate entities.


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

PandN- To answer your question at the end of your comment, Yes, I believe there are two seperate , I'll use the word, "parts". And yes they have two seperate roles in the Kingdom of God both being equal. Just as the Old and New Covenant are two parts. I do not believe that Isreal is the church. Jesus said He would build is church. And to me that settle it in regards to church. And His Church has been building up ever since. I believe Deuteronomy Chapters 29, 30, 31 have a part in God's plan in the future for Isreal (Latter Days). I further believe that the New Covenant that was estblished at Jesus death on the cross will effect christians who seek the Kingdom of God and acccept His Grace through faith. People don't seem to understand that the Children of Israel did not seek the Kingdom of God or understand it during the Old Covenant. Many now believe that the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of God are the same thing. Which it is not. They are two seperate issues. Which we come to the subject of the Seven Thunders we have talked about before. The Nation of Israel, and I mean all 12 tribes, will be reestabished as the Kingdom of Israel. But due to the fact that words spoken by the Seven Thunders (in Revelation) were not writen down it is difficult to know exactly what the Kingdom of Israel will look like once they are reestablished as a Kingdom. Or how their future will play out once they have been reestablished. I believe this is what is meant by the words in the Old Testament as the "Latter Days". But when all is said and done, I believe the New Jerusalem will be the center of God's Kingdom on a New Earth.

I wish to thank you for your insightful comment above and hope my comment did not confuse you. Many thanks and blessings.


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 3 years ago

Phinehas was given a special blessing by God in Numbers 25:7-13. He was still alive in the Days of Joshua, Joshua 22:13-32 and in the time of the Judges 20:28.


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

lionswhelp- You have now mentioned two different names , Phineas and Phinehas, which one is the correct one in your comments? Thank you.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

lionswhelp--- actually it does not matter which name because neither is one who was alive when they entered the wilderness

The Word of God is clear as I showed you above. Only two went over of the original group.

I just cannot understand why some men love to try to show the bible is incorrect and call God a liar.

i am not willing to anything so foolish, I BELIEVE GOD.

Num 26:65 " So there was not left a man of them, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

celafoe- I'm not trying to show that the bible is incorrect or the God is a lier. The point I'm trying to make is that lionwhelp can not be correct.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

grace- that was written to him not you. sorry i should have been more specific. of course I know you would not do that my brother


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

celafoe- thank you. Just so that you know lionwhelp is a her not a him. Just a mix up is all. I've done that myself a few times. Anyway, my main concern is learning the word of God. There is so many things about the Kingdom of God and the Covenants that God had made that needs to be understood not interpret. I, like the rest of us need to continue to study His word. I don't claim to know all of God's word but I will continue to seek His Kingdom and to spread the gospel of it as much as possible. Many don't realize the covenants are tied to God's kingdom and I trying to explain it as best as I am able. There are those who believe I come across as harsh and rude. That may be true but that does not mean I don't care about people. I have great love and concern for even those who don't agree with me. And I never tried to force others to believe any thing I say. The few Hub's I have writen and explained what I believe to be ture. I wouldn't expect anyone to just take my word for anything I have writen. But would hope that they would open the bible for themselves and study it. You and I have discussed this Hub and you had pointed out a err that I made. And through further discussion with you I made the correction to it. I realized you also seek truth and are not fixed on doctrines of men which is why I believe you and I are able to discuse His word so easily. I can also say this about PandN. But one thing I know is that I can spot false doctrine, maybe not all but at least most which come from men. And the one thing I do know is that the word of God does NOT contain false doctrine. There are others out there who try and interpret the bible all they want. As for me, I want to UNDERSTAND God's word in the context which GOD meant it. That is utmost important to me.

God bless celafoe


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 3 years ago

Joshua and Caleb are mentioned in Numbers 14:30. Phinehas is mentioned later in Numbers 25:7-13. Are you telling me that God Almighty doen't have the right to add as many deserving his blessing as He wants to on who He wants to? Phinehas was a failthful Israelite from the Tribe of the Levitical Priesthood a Levite and he was with Joshua and Caleb in the book of Joshua, whether you like it or not, Joshua 22:1,30 and , Joshua 14:6. Read also Judges 20:28 - here he is mentioned as the son of Eleazer, the son of Aaron again as part of the Levitical Priesthood. You both need to read the Bible more and let the Holy Spirit show you were you are wrong. Try using a concordance if you need one. Have a nice day.


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Lionwhelp- I did research further in Ex. 6: 25 and did read Jos. Chapter 20 and evidently you are correct regarding Phinehas. It appears that Phinehas was born just before the children of Israel left Egypt as noted in Ex. 6: 25. And later he was in the land of canaan with Joshua as it is noted in Jos chapter 20. I admit my err and you have my deepest apology.


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 3 years ago

Good, He must have been with the younger Levites in Numbers 26:62. The Levites where not numbered like the rest of the Tribes who inherited land promises. It says that all those numbered did not go into the promised land. The Levites were not numbered, Numbers 26:62 and did go with Eleazar and Phinehas. Though Joshua and Caleb were numbered, they did go in, Numbers 26:64-65..


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

lionswhelp-- I also must ask you forgiveness, i completely disregarded the fact that the priests were not included in the numbering and therefore were not limited as were the people mentioned. good job, thanks for standing on the truth. I learned something today that i had missed previously. I appreciate you


lionswhelp profile image

lionswhelp 3 years ago

Great, I am a Him also!


graceinus 3 years ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

lionwhelp- Again my apology.


Gildas 23 months ago

Thanks for your thgtshuo. It's helped me a lot.


graceinus 23 months ago from those of the Ekklesia Author

Gildas- Thanks for your visit and comment. I'm glad it's been helpful to you also.

Mnny blessing

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working