Have You Loved A Jehovah's Witness Lately? (Part 2. The Greater Half Of The Story)

(Part 2 of 2 in series)

In Part 1 I spoke to you regarding half of the story. My half. It decidedly is less significant than the rest of the story. The more important part is that there are so many people trapped in a belief from which most will never escape. They will be convinced that the source of their spiritual food is everything they claim, until the day they meet their Maker and find out the truth. These precious souls need someone to try to reach out to them, maybe a few will listen. My mom, my dad, my brother, sister, nieces and cousins are all witnesses and need to be reached somehow. Friends that abandoned me in my youth, thinking they were doing the will of God, all have families and have gone through the things I have. So I lovingly try to add my voice to those others who tried. We love you and want for you to see the real TRUTH before it is too late.

There are facts of which I was not aware when I was part of this group but in researching for some way to reach my sister, I discovered. For example, the origins of the group of which I knew only a part. It is a mingling of different doctrines that became what is currently taught as JW doctrine. The reason of it's longevity and success of indoctrination is this co-mingling of doctrine. I must admit that as a JW, I would never have believed any of this information. I would just have assumed it to be mass misinformation by the devil himself.

As a Jehovah's Witness I was always seeking truth. Truth was the operative word. "The Truth" was a reference that I called the Watchtower magazine, the Awake magazine, the Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society as a whole, and the fellowship of witness believers. The Society and its world was the safe zone. It was God's way of talking to us and couldn't be wrong because God and His "faithful and discreet slave class" were leading us. At least I started off thinking that. Everything else, I felt, was subject to Satan's influence, and I knew could never be trusted. Even the Bible itself would be under scrutiny, if the translation was one other than the New World Translation. In my experience I knew of no one that would venture out of the safe zone. Except Me.

My problem as a kid was that I always loved books. I loved the colors of the covers. The way they stood all neat and in a row and when you opened them up you could learn so much and even escape the pain of life. My mom had no idea that when she let me keep old Jehovah's Witness books that it would be part of my "undoing." Old Watchtower titles such as "Deliverance", "Your Will Be Done On Earth", and "Reconciliation" had odd pictures and references that were not in my current books. I wondered at the oddity. Why were these volumes from God so different than the ones that were being used in my house today? I thought. They all came from the same place and people didn't they?

I remember the first time that struck me as strange. The picture of Adam and Eve in the book that my mom read to me as a very young child had Adam depicted without a beard. ("From Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained") The subsequent men of Bible history that were depicted in this book had beards. As a kid I remember saying to myself that Adam had no beard because he was perfect and created perfect and that's why he looked so different. When mom got to the part about Jesus, why look! He had no beard either! Why? because He was perfect. So my little theory held firm. Then one day when at a convention, a new book was released and as my custom was, I opened it to look for the pictures and smell the new book smell. I noticed immediately there, in one of the pictures, was Jesus with a beard on His face! I was shocked! My little theory was shattered! It was explained that Jesus had the hair of His beard pulled off. And how could He have that happen if He had no beard on His face? So from then on the depictions of Jesus would have hair on His face. This change was just accepted, it seemed by everyone - (but not by me). What other things did I believe to be right (and was ready to stake my life upon), were really a mistake, like the beard? I must have shown my emotions because, in short order, my mother had my old Jehovah's Witness books in the trash ready to be thrown out! She was protecting me from researching my own religion! She wanted me to be satisfied with how it was spoon-fed to us. God knows, this would not fly with me! I removed those books from the trash and hid them so that I could look into how my religion had changed.

There was another example of my youth that always struck me as odd. At the yearly time of Passover, on what I was told was Nisan 14, there was Communion, and we were all to come by sacred mandate to Communion service. This was known to me as the Memorial service and it was a solemn occasion with almost no one talking (except for the sermon) and the passing of the unleavened bread and wine. I remember that each year as the tray of bread came by, my mother would look at me and say "don't take any", under her breath. Every year the tray would go by and every year I would get her stern look and warning. It passed from hand to hand, person to person with no one taking any elements at all. At least I thought that. Seems that according to his custom a fellow by the name of Levi Peterson would take the bread and wine and eat when the trays were passed. I found this out by accident when I turned around in my seat and saw him. I nearly fell over. He was eating ! Why was he eating? Well I had to ask. "Mom! I whispered, "Levi is eating!" "Hush!" she whispered back, "I'll tell you about it later!" She informed me that Levi was going to heaven when he died, but all the rest of us were not. Now I was burning with curiosity! How did he know he was going to heaven? What did he feel about it? was he excited? What did he think heaven would be like? I wanted so bad to talk to him but my mother revered him. He was one of the 144,000 who would go to heaven. He was one of the "faithful and discreet slave" class that were responsible for everything I read. I was tortured by not talking to him but now I'm glad I didn't get to, because maybe I wouldn't have been able to see real truth when it was offered, had I been mentored by this man. Instead I watched him from afar and followed at a distance to eavesdrop. Maybe I could learn something, anything! But what I heard and I saw told me nothing.

The last example of my youth which could have given me insight is the sheer horror on my mother's face, when at a convention, people were giving out fliers and I nearly took one from one of them! What made things worse, is in the next half hour or so when we got to our car, I picked one up off the windshield of our car. I opened it - and my mother screamed. "Don't look at that! It's from the "evil slave class" and it's poison!" I dropped it like it was burning me but the damage was already done. Who were these evil people? Why did they want to hurt us? What did they ever do to us and did we ever do anything wrong against them?

The First Fact That I Learned.

There are 24+ sects or splinter groups of Jehovah's Witnesses. This shocked me because in my little world even as an adult Jehovah's Witness there were only two types of folks. Witnesses and all other religions. I had no idea that there were so many people that had splintered off and became other sects of Witnesses. What made all of these people flee from the truth ? Why, if one were to believe my mother and the rest of the Witnesses, our faith was the only one that made any sense at all. All of these folks had to have lost their minds!

A few of these sects are:

1.Laymen's Home Missionary Movement of Chester Springs, PA. (50,000-100,000 members) These folks are accepted by some Christian groups even though they have almost the same theology as Jehovah's Witnesses do.

2. Dawn Bible Students Association of East Rutherford, NJ. (20,000-40,000 members)

3. The Associated Bible Students and the Pastoral Bible Institute.

4. Berean Bible Institute.

5. Back to the Bible Way.

6. The Christian Believers.

7. The New Creation Bible Students Association.

The Second Fact that I Learned.

The second thing that really had me shocked was the occult connections to the materials that the Jehovah's Witnesses produced. I had always wondered how the "faithful and discreet slave" got their information and just who it was that would give the direction that the religion would take. I had already been convinced that the Witnesses wrote or had written materials that were not Biblical. My own research and studies had borne that out. But something that my sister told me made my skin crawl. When she called the Brooklyn office of the Watchtower Society and asked a question, she was "answered" by someone professing to be one of the 144,000 that was there in the office. The young-sounding voice answered a question, posed by me, for her to ask. She did so, knowing in her heart of hearts that the answer she would get would be infallibly right.

My question: How do the faithful and discreet slave class know what to write in the Watchtower and other publications?

The man's answer: "We go into a room and pray. In a little while when our hearts are just right, an angel or God's spirit comes from Jehovah and speaks God's will for us and then we communicate that to the world."

My sister was happy with her answer until I read to her something I found in my research on my own into the history of what was my religion. C.T. Russell had connections to numerology, astrology, spiritism, divination, and pyramidology, (which explained some of the very strange illustrations in the old books I had as a child). But, some would say, "that was way back in the history of the religion. Things aren't done like that now." Well let's look at a quote from Judge Rutherford, second president of the Watchtower Society (who himself was into radionic devices such as the Abrams "black box" and other devices for receiving "yes" or "no" answers from beyond) The publication "Preparation" said, on pages 35-38 and a reference on page 67: "The Lord, through His angel sees to it that the information was given to His people in due time." The President of the Society when I was a child and through young adulthood, was F.W. Franz who made this statement: "We believe that the angels of God are used in directing Jehovah's Witnesses." And a mere two years ago the statement was reiterated to my sister. "We go into a room and pray. In a little while, when our hearts are just right, an angel or God's spirit comes from Jehovah and speaks God's will for us and then we communicate that to the world."

I then read to her the Scripture Galatians 1:8-9: "But even if we (the apostles) or an angel from heaven , preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed."

Other things that should bother Jehovah's Witnesses about their religion.

1. The Watchtower claims to be a prophet to the World as the prophets of old. In the publication, "The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah" 1971 said: "[Jehovah's Witnesses] serve as the mouthpiece...of Jehovah...[and...] speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah."

What's wrong with that you ask? The office of the Prophet is different from the Spirit gift of prophecy that you hear people speak of. The man holding the office of a Prophet was given direct inspiration often verbally from God. If the prophet said that something would happen it had to happen, or that prophet would be stoned to death. We all know that the Watchtower Society and its publications have set dates for the end of the world and have changed many things in its policies and beliefs. If this were actually a prophet to the world they would have to have a harsh end. I say this not to hurt anyone but to warn the friends of my youth and all of their children that believe this. I also say this to the others who may read this and continue to read until the end of the article. Listen to what God's word says about a false prophet in Deuteronomy 18:20-22:

"But the prophet that presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart, 'How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken? - when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him."

The Watchtower has predicted the end of the world in the years 1874, 1914, 1925,...and 1975. The Society admitted being wrong and to being "disappointed" that it did not come true. That should create some bothered feelings.

Why would I want to shake your faith in your religion? Because I believe that Jesus is coming soon and I know how these topics make you feel. I was where you are right now, once. Deep panic sets in, and I felt that if I kept listening, I would be giving myself over to Satan himself. If you really give these things some thought it scares you, too. That is the devil trying to scare you.

If you are open-minded enough and intellectually honest enough to research like I did, I suggest that you keep your focus on Jesus. There is something that is consistently missing in every doctrinal work of the Jehovah's Witnesses. There is a constant emphasis on the Father God but none on Jesus Christ. Jesus said,

"I Am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one gets to the Father but by me." (John 14:6)

and,

"Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I Am." (John 13:13)

and Paul said of Jesus,

"At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:10-11

If you are honest, these verses and so many others, make Jesus seem very, very important to know and to study. Doesn't it seem just a little odd that so very little is said about someone that has "a name above every name"? or like in Acts 4:11-12 that says "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

What harm could it do to study Jesus? If you draw close to Him, He will draw close to you. Don't you hunger for bible truth? Study Him and pray to Jehovah God and say:

I want to know about you. I want to know about this name that is above every name. I want to know your truth. I know I am a sinner and can't save myself. Jesus died for my sins and I want to know Him. Please forgive me and make yourself known to me in a way you have never before. In Jesus' Name Amen.

These are things that you will learn as you study. You will learn that God paid for our sin by bunishing Jesus. Jesus was God in human flesh. Calling out to Him and confessing that you need Him to save you is what you need to do to avoid dying in your sin. Because God is holy, a person dying in their sin will be separated from God for an eternity.

This is the prayer that I prayed when I received Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior:

Dear Lord Jesus, I believe that You came to die for me and pay for my sin. I know You were God in human flesh and that You gave Your life's blood to pay for my sin. I know that I am a sinner and I do not want to die in my sin and be separated from You forever. I believe You died, were buried, and rose again from the dead on the third day. I ask You to forgive me of my sin and save me. I turn from my sin and turn to You, Jesus, as the only way of salvation. Thank You for saving me. I pray this in Jesus' name, the name above every name. Amen.

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Comments 52 comments

thefount profile image

thefount 7 years ago from North Central Louisiana

The Love of God compels us to confront others: "Knowing the terror of God, we persuade men. (II Corinthians 5:11)"

Evangelize on my brother! Evangelize on!

Be blessed


no body profile image

no body 7 years ago from Rochester, New York Author

Thank you for the encouragement, fount. I cherish the fact that good men and women of God are behind the work. May many see and believe. Love you.


shinujohn2008 7 years ago

You really think well. I enjoyed reading your hub. Keep publishing new hubs


no body profile image

no body 7 years ago from Rochester, New York Author

Thank you I appreciate your stopping by. May God bless you and yours.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 7 years ago from Roseville, CA

I praise Jesus that He has proven that you no longer have a spirit of fear. He has given you the spirit of love to reach out to the Witnesses, power that overcomes fear, and a sound mind used to discern truth from false. I pray the Lord, our Savior, will set these captives FREE, expose the "son of perdition", the spirit of antichrist that claims to be God!! This will happen before He returns and you are obediently revealing him. God mightily bless His work through you, brother. AMEN.


no body profile image

no body 7 years ago from Rochester, New York Author

What you thought about the article was important to me. Thank you for your feedback, encouragement and love.


exjwlaurie 6 years ago

My Dear Borhter in Christ,

This is absolutely awesome!

You brought to light things that I was unaware of, even after 35 years in the WT---here I thought I had heard and seen it all! I was unaware, for example of the "splinter groups" that you mention--I had no idea they existed!

And I love the fact that as a child you could 'perceive' their deception!

I think that is why Jesus says as recorded in Matthew 19:14: "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of the heavens belongs to such as these."

And also: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Mt 18:3

Children are completely without guile. They detect inconsistency, and even if they are unable to "verbalize" what feels 'wrong' in their precious little hearts, they "know" a lie when they hear one.

The "disconnect" comes because they simply can't fathom that their parents would "knowingly" lie to them about God. So, they make the assumption; especially when the parent rebukes the child for questioning the Society; that it is they themselves who are in error, misunderstanding in some way, these "deep things of God".

As you also brought out, they call "themselves" "the Truth". Their mind-control extends even to their "choice" of words that they use to describe themselves. The indoctrination is hugely effective.

The points you make Brother, are such strong and valid points, it made me aware of the precious gift that we have been blessed to receive, you and I.

The "spirit" by which this organization operates is a powerful and deceitful spirit--not from God, or they would be teaching the gospel of salvation through Christ Jesus, alongside of us!

I am blessed to have had the opportunity to read this insightful hub! It is awesome!

God Bless you my Brother!


no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York Author

I guess the most disheartening thing is the occultish connection that the writers of the Watchtower use. The are truly led of angels but not the angels of God. The Bible warns of angels that will add to the gospel of Christ and that all Christians are to deem them accursed. When you see that leaders are opening themselves up to demon leadership, it is no wonder the blasphemies are rampant. Deny Christ, deny salvation, deny hell, deny heaven for all children of God, deny, deny, deny. I get angry at the devil and his minions. I get angry with those who lead these flocks of gullible people. I get angry with the people themselves for willingly believing the lies and never thinking rationally. Oh well, be angry and sin not. Leave the anger and love that's what I always say. Thank you sister.


Cher Anne profile image

Cher Anne 6 years ago from Earth

Cults...........make me sick. Candy coated Satanism,see group called Cults on Facebook. Thanks for your writing!


no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York Author

Thank you Cher Anne, I will check it out. I have found that the truth of God is very narrow. It is not real broad to allow everyone in. God is only one entity. He is only one God. Man has created many different visions of what He is. Every one of those visions that isn't what the Bible says is God is missing the mark. Yes, it does make me a little queesy myself but I know that I didn't see myself as all that weird when I was one of them. We were told that Christians were the weird ones. I was trying to seek truth. That's why, once I really found truth and see the exposed cult, once I saw how to spot a cult then I was so happy to be free. Many Blessings to you. Bob.


Nikko 6 years ago

Somethings wrong with as i see.you got the cross in the back ground of your picture and that tells me a lot about you.you phony,and a jw hater.all this is nonsense


no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York Author

I think you have the wrong idea about love. I believe that you are closer to hating than I. I realize that you have beliefs that are different than mine but that doesn't mean I hate Jehovah's Witnesses. If I hold back the truth from Witnesses than that is not love. You imagine that any belief other than Watchtower teachings constitutes hatred. The Bible doesn't teach Witness doctrine. What I have written comes from the Bible and the Watchtower has altered so much of the Bible it is no wonder you can not see the truth of it. It is with heaviness of heart that I offer you truth and you reject it as hatred, not because of what is written but because of the cross in a picture. I suggest that you read what is written again. Read the words and ideas and forget the picture. This type of conversion has happened to Witnesses other than I. I will pray for you and if you have a question or something we can talk about, I will be happy to converse with you. I will pray for you.


KhaosKevin profile image

KhaosKevin 6 years ago from Irish Hills, Michigan

I appreciate the 'Truth' you conveyed, I myself is a JW survivor and have been in therapy due to the onslaught of many years of 'Untruths' and other dysfunctions inflicted during a traumatic childhood. Religion and it's ideologies was created to assuage the the fear of our imminent deaths and to control and corral the masses, but that's something for another hub. I liked your other, true half. As free moral agents, I believe our Creator would want us to search for other truths to decipher on our own, not to be bogged down by a dysfunctional entity that creates questions concerning our faith. Keep on writing insightful hubs. Thank you.


no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York Author

KhaosKevin. I praise Jesus that you did survive long enough to get out of the Witnesses but, my friend, that is only half of the battle. Just because you do not attend their meeting halls does not mean they still do not have a grip on you. Believe me, I know. I recommend that you read my sister's (spiritual sister) hubs. Her name here is Exjwlaurie. Her hubs will speak to you and help you to see your way to going the other half of your journey, all the way to Jesus, "the author and finisher of our faith". It is not a long way to go but depending on how much of a grip the Witnesses had on you, it can be a hard journey. It doesn't have to be a long journey but just one leap of faith. I also recommend another sister's hubs and that is Judah's Daughter. Her hubs will help you see the great truth and crime committed against you - the fact that Jesus is God and that you were lied to about that fact. As far as dysfunctional background, we all have that, some a little more than others. Jesus is the answer for that as well. He is the Great Physician and can cure you of all those ills once you have come to Him in faith. So I will pray for you and will help in any way I can. Longing to be your brother in Christ, Bob Smith.


afro's mistake profile image

afro's mistake 5 years ago from dorothys kansas

this is a very enlightening hub


no body profile image

no body 5 years ago from Rochester, New York Author

How have you been AM? I have missed you. I see you have written a hub. Gotta go read it. Thank you for telling me you were blessed by reading of my past and how messed up my thinking was. A great deal of people have Jehovah's Witnesses in their family. My sister broke away for a time and came to church with me. She never really could adapt to being without the religion in her life. She finally had to go back to them and to put our brother sister relationship in perspective. Which means she will not be able to speak to me about anything meaningful again unless I become a Witness too. I have become a saved Christian. I can not become unsaved. I can't be unborn again. I am a new creature in Christ. So I have again lost my sister to a belief system that will keep Jesus from her until the day she goes to meet Him and eternity is before her. I never stop praying for any of my family or the people that I used to associate myself with for so many years. I do love them but my love and God's can't bridge unbelief. Love you my brother. Bob.


Kitaine profile image

Kitaine 4 years ago from Pennsboro, West Virginia

This is a very well written hub - I can't say that I agree with you. But it is well written. I can feel for you in your search for the truth, but I am saddened that you were blinded and misinformed. In fact I am saddened to see you led astray to apostasy. I am studying the bible with the JW's and that is all we do is study scripture. I have been around "the truth" for 12 years. My husband is a baptized brother. The WT and Awakes's are just an aid - and the "material" that you use to state your issues with are from may years ago - it is not said that the 'faithful and discreet slave' get their information from 'angels' it is said that they pray for Jehovah's guidance and then conference on the issues and then publish the material. It is also not said that all of the 144,000 are from before 1914. As some falter they can get replaced. What is understood is that there will be a dwindling number of the anointed class and then the end will come. When the end comes - Jesus will annihilate the wicked and any who try to lead his sheep astray. Mark 9:42


no body profile image

no body 4 years ago from Rochester, New York Author

You do understand that what was written, had I questioned these corrections you made to the article and stated that it should be said in the way you clarified that then I would have been disfellowshipped? I would have been cut off from life for speaking something that was supposted to be wrong but now is right. That does not bother you? If this is truly from an inspired source it would not change. "I am Jehovah I change not." and also "Jehovah the same yesterday, today and forever" and also "Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever." I suggest that you keep a second study Bible next to the New World Translation and compare. You will soon see the differences. Also since your study space is getting full already, Keep the witness Interlinear translation. It helped me see some things I never thought I would see. Since you are studying, you may still have time before you close your mind to the things right in front of you. There is a point where you will begin to see and you will deny seeing the differences. Like my mom who is so scared of any change, she knows I am right in what I have found but tells me, "I'll never change! I can't I'll never change." The Witnesses have her so afraid that she can't even look anymore. I say truth is truth and it should never shy away from inspection. I say the more you look and dig and wish to know the more you know God because it is into His word that you dig. I will pray for you and I will look for anyway to help you I can. Feel free to pray for me I am not looking away but all I see are proofs to what I say and holes in the Witness logic that change from year to year. I truly love you in the Lord and hope to speak to you again. Bob Smith.


Roy Lane 3 years ago

That cult cloud individuals judgments and when a person leaves and been mistreated they have a lot of anger and resentment and cant get rid of it in there minds . that is a cult


no body profile image

no body 3 years ago from Rochester, New York Author

The definition of a cult is any form of religion that veers from thus sayeth the LORD. In this definition any religion can slip into compliance easily. But the term also carries with it the sense that in veering away from Scripture this particular group has become radical to the point that it begins to change what is regarded as universal truth and asks its members to forsake any outside the religion relationships in favor of only the group. The Witnesses are not moving their members to some little corner of the world like Jim Jones did, but they are changing the word of God on a regular basis. The "Bible truth" I was taught all those years ago is different than the "Bible truth" people in the Witnesses are currently taught is Scripture. Old textbooks are discarded in favor of reversed positions on doctrine. The Bible has not changed nor has the God of the Bible changed. He said, "I change not." and Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. I was angry because of the deliberate changing of the Bible. I was angry because I knew that my family would never allow themselves to see real Bible truth because of the blindness. I hurt because I love so many of the Witnesses and there is nothing I can do to help them. I pray for them and wait and see. Thank you Roy for your comment.


April Reynolds profile image

April Reynolds 2 years ago from Arizona

This is scary, some of the sects sound familiar but I had no idea they were JW's, or that there was so much influence from the occult. It makes sense though considering the level of deception. I think they changed the Bible again, my friend is very excited about her new translation.


no body profile image

no body 2 years ago from Rochester, New York Author

That is so bad. Every time the influence to change something happens I get a cringe because it just gets more and more evil. I pray for them but the evil influence is so strong. I just hope something shakes them so individuals will be moved to find Jesus. God bless you April.


Author Sam profile image

Author Sam 15 months ago from Nigeria

When I read of people's criticism of Jw, it makes me happy. do you know why? because am one of Jw. If those who Jesus with their eyes and observed all the good works he was doing could still reject and criticism him, who are we not to endure such?

Many of you thinks you have 'all the fact', but am sorry, because you're simple doweling in ignorance of the fact.

You see, a baby was been giving an artificial apple in the name of real apple, from birth till he grew old. one day, someone brought a real apple to him but he rejected it, and calls it fake apple. why? will you blame him? No. Because he had never seen nor tasted a real apple before all his life. he only eat the artificial one thinking it is real apple.

That is the same with all the so-called Christians of today who hate and criticise Jw. After true Christianity was currupted and the true Christian wheat was overshadowed by the weed, millions were born and they practiced false Christianity in the name of following Christ till they died.

Still the same today, what do you expect? Why wouldn't you reject the true Christianity for the adulterated one since you've never tasted it before?

If Judas could betray Jesus whom he can see, I don't see why some whose conduct does not match with the bible's principles Jw practice not leave, and then blame Jehovah's Witnesses.

Light of God's word has gotten brighter for Us, but you guys are here talking about the past, when the light was still not as bright as today. to your ignorance, go on more and more.


no body profile image

no body 15 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

Hello Author Sam, I want to say that none of what I said was directed at you sir. I was relating what I experienced and learned to be true. I was trying to share how Jesus is explained in the Scripture. I wanted to share a tiny piece of the journey that Jesus has lead me. I don't claim to have all the facts but I do maintain that Jehovah's Witnesses avoid most Scriptures that show who He really is. The first one that comes to mind is John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God." and then verse 14: "and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld His glory..." The argument that Christians never knew truth so have faith in a falsehood because of lack of exposure to the truth is not valid. I was raised a Jehovah's Witness and have kept contact with Jehovah's Witnesses and their teachings. I know for a certainty that what they say is truth is not the truth and one of the biggest reasons I am sure of that is how the Witnesses "truth" changes at every big assembly. BASIC CONCEPT: Truth does not change! And the Bible also says that truth does not change. God says "I AM the same yesterday, today, and forever." And God also says, "I AM Truth." To claim truth changes in the radical ways of the JW's is a lie because God says in His Bible that He does not change and also His "words do not change... Heaven and earth can pass away but My words will stand forever." I would plead with you to see that progressive "truth" is not truth at all but merely plugging up faulty doctrine with various lies that cannot stand the test of time. I will pray for you Sam. If you wish to speak further you my email me at: randc1146@gmail.com. Sometimes personal heart to heart talk between rational people can make a big difference in feeling less attacked. I don't wish you to feel attacked but instead warned by a friend who has been where you are. Bob Smith.


Author Sam profile image

Author Sam 15 months ago from Nigeria

Hi Bob. You said you were once a Witness. Please tell us, were you born into a witness family? if no. how did you become a Witness and were you baptized?

If yes, tell us please what got you out, were you disfellowship? if yes, please tell us why, and if no, please tell us why are you not a witness today.

Secondly, you said what Witnesses called "the truth" is not truth and you cited John 1:1. I need you please to explain to the audience here, what John 1:1 mean in harmony with the entire scriptures, and please tell us how that verse is written in Greek scripture originally.

Third. Please tell us. Now have you found the truth? if yes, tell us what Christian denomination you now belong, maybe we too may join you.

I will be willing to discourse the bible with you to any length if I find out you are willing. we will discourse here not through email, so that every one could see how right you are in your Criticism against the Witnesses.

you must answer all these questions to prove you really are interested in people or you are simply writing articles to make money. Author Sam


Author Sam profile image

Author Sam 12 months ago from Nigeria

We are happy that the effort of JW at those Early Stages http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/If-Jesus-W... in understanding bible's prophecies yielded reasult.


no body profile image

no body 12 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

But that's just it Sam, the words and written pieces from the Witnesses didn't make sense when comparing the Bible to them. And after I saw other versions of the Bible and used the Jehovah's Witness "Kingdom Interlinear" Bible I saw how the words were twisted, were removed, were manipulated to fit the doctrine of the Witnesses at that time. I watched and saw that every new change happening at the assemblies in the summer would change Bible doctrine not just "clarify" like the JW's claimed. I was devastated when they finally disfellowshipped me because I had no where else to go. They had me thinking that everyone else was the devil and I saw my own beliefs were also going against the Bible. I finally found a young pastor and his college and career group at the YMCA while I was exercising and they began to talk to me and answer some of my questions. They showed me the King James Bible and then the New King James later on and I did comparisons to the interlinear and NWT Bible and found that the King James followed the Interlinear JW Bible better than the NWT did. I will look at the link you gave me Sam and I will comment and respond to other comments as you requested. Bob.


Author Sam profile image

Author Sam 12 months ago from Nigeria

Bob.

I appreciate point by point answer to my question not mixing words, because i have more question earger to ask you.

If you ever want to answer, answer point by point.


no body profile image

no body 12 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

Okay Sam, I will try to answer some questions point by point. The one thing I want you to ponder as we get ready to present information here is that the answer to all questions is Jesus Christ. There is a reason that the JW's do not mention Him much at all. The focus is instead on an obscure Father Jehovah image and even then the Scriptures are so isolated and out of context that no one following JW's will be able to see that even Jehovah (the Father God) is pointing to Jesus Christ. You will hear me say it over and over again, in point after point, Jesus Is The Answer. Bob.


Author Sam profile image

Author Sam 12 months ago from Nigeria

BOB. 'JW do not mention Jesus much at all' you said?

I cannot wallow in argument with someone who has determined to tell lies.

your above statement is a very, very, very bigest falsehood from you.

To JW Jesus is the central point for salvation-The ransom is God's greatest gift. How can you say such a thing? For the fact, we put Jesus in his right position the bible place him in relation to his Father Jehovah, is never and ever will be true that We mention him less.

The memorial we do is for whom then? That we advertise him, how many is done for Jehovah?

Did you think before saying at all?

What is the theme of 2015/2016 conventions of JW?

Do you ever examine our books and publication?

This is so blasphemous!..


no body profile image

no body 12 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

Sorry we will not be able to talk as I had hoped. If we could have talked, I would have mentioned the Scripture that says: "Let it be known to you all, and to the people of Israel, that by the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth, whom you crucified whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here whole.This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone. Nor is there Salvation IN ANY OTHER, for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:11-12) And this one: "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I LAY DOWN My life that I MAY TAKE IT AGAIN. No one takes it from Me [His life] but I lay it down of MYSELF. I have the POWER to lay it down, and I HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE IT [His Life] AGAIN." (John 10:17-18)

It appears you just wish to confront without any give and take at all. That gives you a platform with which to try to hurt without taking any risks at all. You asked a question in your first post to me and I was pretty sure you were not sincere. I felt that all you wanted was for me to say something to give you a public platform to hurl your opinions. I can see I was right to think that...

I am sorry we can't have any give and take about Jesus' BLOOD that was shed that pays for an every believer's sin and not just for the sin of "perfect Adam" alone (as Witnesses say).

Witnesses say people have to just have 'close association' with a particular group to be saved (144,000). But I won't have a chance to discuss this Scripture: "But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, Through Faith In Jesus Christ, TO ALL AND ON ALL who believe. For there is no difference; for ALL Have Sinned and Fall SHORT of the glory of God, being Justified freely by His grace through the REDEMPTION that is in Christ Jesus." (Rom. 3:22-24)

I remember how sure I was in Witness beliefs. I remember how I felt that they had all the answers. And yet they lied to me about Salvation through grace, about doctrine, about the promises God has made to ALL who believe and call on the NAME of Jesus.

Because I'm a believer I look forward to the promise to ALL Believers in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; "But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep [died] lest you sorrow as those who have no hope. For IF WE BELIEVE that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who are asleep IN Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep [dead]. FOR THE LORD HIMSELF will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then WE WHO ARE ALIVE and remain shall be caught up together WITH THEM in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

Should you change your mind and wish to discuss anything with decorum, let me know. Bob.


Author Sam profile image

Author Sam 12 months ago from Nigeria

I was thinking you will have a rethink, withdraw your former blasphemous statement and apologize to exterblish bases for true discoursion.

But seems you are not really sincere, and you are not open to any reasoning and agrement but have a preconceived ideas you want to argue on.

Am sorry, you have meet the wrong person, not untill you apologize on your lying statement against JW.

Do that if you want us discourse.


no body profile image

no body 12 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

You notice you are the one who cuts off talking.

I sincerely believe you were going to take this stance toward one like me anyway because you are so mind-controlled you fear to have any thoughts in your mind that are not fed you from the "faithful and discreet SLAVE" class.

You couldn't let anyone know you were having a real discourse with a former JW. One that would use Scripture and not just throw accusations and hollow JW pre-approved safe answers. You are so afraid. Your view of a JW God punishes so easy or may hold it against you.

But more likely you are afraid some spies of the organization will turn on YOU or turn YOU in for maybe listening to a point of view different than JW's own.

You will remember I gave you an opportunity to use my email address to talk to me privately. I now know why you could not do that because you are being monitored for this back and forth interchange with me. You sir are a stage puppet for a group of people that are lied to.

FYI: Just by claiming a stance is God's current stance on a subject, (even when that view differs from the Bible itself) does NOT make it true. As soon as you hold a belief that is different than the Scriptures, then just remember I told you that that belief is wrong. Someday you will know and hopefully before Jesus comes in the clouds.

I will hold out to you my email again which is available on my Facebook page. If you change your mind, we can privately talk and reason together. Hope to hear from just you, Sam, (without the audience).

Bob Smith, nobodyonhubpages


Author Sam profile image

Author Sam 12 months ago from Nigeria

Bob

When I meet people like you I laugh out loud on your many false blatant lies against JW.

Am afraid of discoursing with you, am being monitored, and so on you said. Yet am here hubing on hubpages on as you are?. You are adding more lies upon the first lie you told of which am still holding out to you to apologize to make way for real discoursion.

Instead you are adding lies upon lie!

Check out many of my hubs, does it sound like one who is scared of mere liars like you or being monitored and by whom am I being monitored?

If all opposers like you knew what Jehovah is accomplishing by means of his witnesses despite all effort of people like you to misrepresent JW, you will repent and ask God for forgiveness.

I have meet many people like you online, and I tell you, all are jsut emty drums making noice, noice that cannot hurt me at all, JW have pass the stage where opposition can stop God's work.

check my hubs.


no body profile image

no body 12 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

I have checked your hubs Sam, They say basically what I was taught 40 years ago. The teachings have changed a little, but they still are unchanged in basic teachings I was taught.

The elements of the trinity are still missing and the doctrine of hellfire and the birthday celebrations are still banned and the stand on blood transfusions. Most of the Jehovah's Witness doctrine is still there that I once believed.

But I have seen so much of the Bible that was hidden from us by the NW Translation. Unless you read and study on your own and are not afraid of digging you will never learn beyond what you think you know now. I have seen that the promises belong to me and every believer but JW's taught that only 144,000 special people were supposed to receive those promises. I have learned so much of the Old Testament is tied to Jesus and His fulfilling my sin debt (and all mankind's sin debt).

I have learned so much and I have lost so much.

I have lost my mother, my father, my sister, my brother, my two cousins, an uncle, an aunt, many many hundreds of friends because of shunning. The teaching and practice of shunning by the Jehovah's Witnesses is heartless and cruel and unBiblical.

You have a tone of hatred in your replies to me here, calling me names and spewing hatred. I don't feel that about you.

I understand more about you than you could possibly know. I WAS you at one time. When I say: "Have you loved a Jehovah's Witness lately? I mean it. In Jesus' name I do love you and all who you fellowship with. I will always care about you and those who still refuse to fellowship with me. Have a good day Sam. Bob.


Author Sam profile image

Author Sam 12 months ago from Nigeria

BOB

There is no how you gonna draw me into a discoursion unless you apologize on the first lies you told.

Never say you were like me before, you were not. I research on religion and read maybe than you do.


no body profile image

no body 12 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

I can't apologize for what I believe to be true, Sam. I have no right to say I'm exactly like you. But I was a Baptized, Active, Jehovah's Witness and that is what you are. That was why I said we are similar. I'm not trying to "draw you in to a discussion." I merely say if you change your mind and wish to talk there are several different ways we could do that. Sorry I made you upset but ask yourself: Why am I so upset?


MizBejabbers profile image

MizBejabbers 5 months ago from Arkansas

I really enjoyed reading your point of view, No Body. I dated a Jehovah's Witness for about a month when I was in my teens. I broke it off because I got tired of being told by him that "I was going to Hell because I wouldn't accept the Truth." I was in the process of doubting my own church, and I certainly was not going to get into another with a more narrow view. The one time I was around his family, I felt their disapproval of me, so I knew it would never work.

BTW, all Christian religions say that God is perfect, but in 1 Samuel 15:10-11 Jehovah admits he is not perfect. He has regrets, therefore he can’t be perfect. A person can't find all the answers about God in the Bible either. I wrote about this.


no body profile image

no body 5 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

Hi again MizB! I can't say that I agree that God "having regrets" means He makes mistakes and is imperfect as we think of how we are not perfect and makes mistakes. I know it sounds that way but a little study of Hebrew and context of other Scripture you can see that it is not the way it seemed. Another part of Scripture says that He (God will put our sins "behind His back and will remember them no more." Many such phrases make it seem like there are limitations to God and His power but there are Scriptures that definitely say He makes no mistakes. (He never sinned so that in itself is perfection.)

I think where the problem is, is in our sin and our sin's effect on our world. The world is cursed by its own sin. And "the end thereof is death." Also the thing about Witnesses and hell... Witnesses don't actually believe in hell. For them, hell is merely non-existence. In their mind their reward is to be re-created on to a paradise earth. But the answer to that misconception is that God says that there are places in hell that are worse than others. If hell is merely the grave and non-existence, then how is one non-existence worse than another.

You seem like such a nice person. I am so glad that you have visited and commented. I can feel kindness in your words. Thank you, Bob.


MizBejabbers profile image

MizBejabbers 5 months ago from Arkansas

Thank you, Bob, for your kind words. I don't believe the way you do, I don't believe in Hell either. I believe in a higher spirituality that includes reincarnation and karma. I also believe in Jesus and the Christ, just in a different way. But know that I love you because I know that you are a beautiful person and whatever path you are on is the right one for you. Miz B. (I don't publish my real name because of my job.)


no body profile image

no body 5 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

Well Miz I love the name you chose. I hope we will continue to talk and that I don't drive you crazy with my Christian faith and reasons "because the Bible says." It's just because I see the whole world through the grid of the Bible and Christianity. It makes me... uh, stubborn-appearing, uh, narrow-minded-appearing. But be assured that I do love talking to you and will not ever try to hurt you. If it ever sounds preachy it is given in love. : )


MizBejabbers profile image

MizBejabbers 5 months ago from Arkansas

I know we can't promote our hubs in comments but if you ever get curious, you know where to find me.


no body profile image

no body 5 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

Of course. I will check them out. What are friends for? : )


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 5 months ago from Fontana

Wow! No body, I saw a link to this Hub from "Should we get rid of religion?" and was curious. I will take time to read Part 1 and then come to Part 2. My sister, at 66, decided to study with JW. She wants to have Bible Study with me. To her Bible study is me listening to her talking about how wrong my beliefs are. She gets made when I refute things she says using Scripture. JWs do not want to discuss. They want to control and recruit.


no body profile image

no body 5 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

I agree. I know that she probably loves you to want to "study" the Bible, but if you are not solid in your Biblical fundamentals and knowledge then anyone "studying" with JW's is in very much danger. It is loaded with supposed logical puzzle solving and humanistic reasoning. God has revealed in His Scripture that His was are beyond understanding especially through human reasoning. Be very careful should you decide to do it. If I can answer any questions for you, I will. Thank you for reading and the interest. Bob.


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 5 months ago from Fontana

Thank you Bob! After my internet situation is straightened out, I will be abale to communicate more. Verizon switched to Frontier and totally jacked up my service. I posted on FB that I am mad as a wet cat and found out that our whole community on Frontier has little or no internet. Someone is coming May 1 to get it straight. Thanks again! Diane


no body profile image

no body 4 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

I look forward to it Diane. :-)


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 4 months ago from Fontana

I came back to read your testimony again. I need the encouragement in trying to patiently converse with JWs on FB. Thank you for commenting on my forum which asks if JW is a subset of Christianity.

Do you have a video of your testimony on Youtube?


no body profile image

no body 4 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

Thank you for coming to read again. No, I'm not much of a video man. But it seems like a good idea. Maybe I will try that in the future. I know it can get discouraging dealing with all these "willingly" blind people. I remember how it was when someone would make a logical point against the Witnesses and in that one moment I would realiz that if this point that this person was making was correct, then chances are that all I believed was wrong or mis-taught.

It was at that moment when I would cut the conversation short and run. But as I later would think about it, God was in charge and if what I was believing was of God then the Bible should back up that teaching. I sought to double-check every position and doctrine. I found many places where positions changed 180 degrees. Many places where anyone reading the Scriptures at all would see the Watchtower was lying. By the time I left my parents home I knew I was going to find God if I lived through this disfellowshipping horror. My one close call with suicide really changed me. I knew that there was more to learn about God, and in fact I knew somehow that I didn't know anything about God at all. When I received Christ and began to see the Scriptures as the Spirit laid them out for me I began to understand the horrible danger my family and friends still in the Witnesses were in. I began to pray for them and take every opportunity to reason with them that I was given.

I'm so happy that this article has helped you. You are welcome to ask anything of me Diane. I will do my best to help or lend strength to you however and whenever I can. Bob.


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 4 months ago from Fontana

Thank you! It looks like they try to throw the sink at you with disjointed comments. At first I tried respond which put we on the defensive. But then I started saying, remember the topic. That is a JW belief. I understand. That is a difference that separates JW from Christianity. I'm being prayerful to be humble in this. Thank you for you HP ministry.


no body profile image

no body 4 months ago from Rochester, New York Author

You're quite welcome. I will help in any way I can.


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 4 months ago from Fontana

I'm actually thinking of shutting it down now because there are those who wish to argue. I don't think anyone listens when people are arguing. I'll marinade on it a couple of days while I watch the sparring.

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