Hell, a great big party?

The world lives as if they do not believe in Hell and for most of them hell is just another place after they die, no big deal. I see many reasons why they don’t believe in hell as you and I do, 1. They are ignorant of the truth, how are they ignorant? Because perhaps they were not brought up in the church to believe in Heaven or Hell, so why should they take it seriously, after all the bible is JUST made up of little stories or 2. A new baby in Christ got hurt and quits the church, so now their thinking, “This Christian stuff is not real” and leaves it all behind. 3. A false religion shows up at their door steps reassuring them there is NO hell. 4. Hell is just another place where I go after I die; my friends will be there so it will be one big party. Lord have mercy, my heart cries for them. The one thing all of these people have in common is, Satan has placed blinders on them and he does what he does best, after all, his name is “Father of lies.” I read a comment on a blog about hell today that made my blood crawl. The blog was good in it’s self and it made people think. The topic was concerning what did people think Hell would be like. This one comment remarked that they were tired of Christians and how they would act and wish they would act like they are suppose to, and more then we think there will be more Christians in hell,(I’m not sure I would call them Christians if they are in Hell, just my thought I injected here.) AND they don't understand what makes Christians feel that they have the right to ruin hell for those of us who are looking forward to the break from all of you good people. (I sit and just scratch my head.)

I could tell you in 500 words or less why I believe there is a hell but my words are just words to those who do not believe in Hell but instead I will tell you what the Bible says about hell. Now some of you will still say you don’t even believe in it no mater what the bible says because you don’t believe in the bible. Even though you don’t believe In Hell Lets see what hell thinks about you.

Isaiah 14:9-10, 9 "Hell from beneath is excited about you, To meet you at your coming; It stirs up the dead for you, All the chief ones of the earth; It has raised up from their thrones All the kings of the nations. 10 They all shall speak and say to you: 'Have you also become as weak as we? Have you become like us?

Let’s see why they are excited to see you, and what you have to do to become like one of them.

Reference found at Bible gateway

2 Peter 2 (The Message)

Lying Religious Leaders

1-2But there were also lying prophets among the people then, just as there will be lying religious teachers among you. They'll smuggle in destructive divisions, pitting you against each other—biting the hand of the One who gave them a chance to have their lives back! They've put themselves on a fast downhill slide to destruction, but not before they recruit a crowd of mixed-up followers who can't tell right from wrong.

2-3They give the way of truth a bad name. They're only out for themselves. They'll say anything, anything that sounds good to exploit you. They won't, of course, get by with it. They'll come to a bad end, for God has never just stood by and let that kind of thing go on.

4-5God didn't let the rebel angels off the hook, but jailed them in hell till Judgment Day. Neither did he let the ancient ungodly world off. He wiped it out with a flood, rescuing only eight people—Noah, the sole voice of righteousness, was one of them.

6-8God decreed destruction for the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. A mound of ashes was all that was left—grim warning to anyone bent on an ungodly life. But that good man Lot, driven nearly out of his mind by the sexual filth and perversity, was rescued. Surrounded by moral rot day after day after day, that righteous man was in constant torment.

9So God knows how to rescue the godly from evil trials. And he knows how to hold the feet of the wicked to the fire until Judgment Day.

Predators on the Prowl

10-11God is especially incensed against these "teachers" who live by lust, addicted to a filthy existence. They despise interference from true authority, preferring to indulge in self-rule. Insolent egotists, they don't hesitate to speak evil against the most splendid of creatures. Even angels, their superiors in every way, wouldn't think of throwing their weight around like that, trying to slander others before God.

12-14These people are nothing but brute beasts, born in the wild, predators on the prowl. In the very act of bringing down others with their ignorant blasphemies, they themselves will be brought down, losers in the end. Their evil will boomerang on them. They're so despicable and addicted to pleasure that they indulge in wild parties, carousing in broad daylight. They're obsessed with adultery, compulsive in sin, seducing every vulnerable soul they come upon. Their specialty is greed, and they're experts at it. Dead souls!

15-16They've left the main road and are directionless, having taken the way of Balaam, son of Beor, the prophet who turned profiteer, a connoisseur of evil. But Balaam was stopped in his wayward tracks: A dumb animal spoke in a human voice and prevented the prophet's craziness.

17-19There's nothing to these people—they're dried-up fountains, storm-scattered clouds, headed for a black hole in hell. They are loudmouths, full of hot air, but still they're dangerous. Men and women who have recently escaped from a deviant life are most susceptible to their brand of seduction. They promise these newcomers freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption, for if they're addicted to corruption—and they are—they're enslaved.

20-22If they've escaped from the slum of sin by experiencing our Master and Savior, Jesus Christ, and then slid back into that same old life again, they're worse than if they had never left. Better not to have started out on the straight road to God than to start out and then turn back, repudiating the experience and the holy command. They prove the point of the proverbs, "A dog goes back to its own vomit" and "A scrubbed-up pig heads for the mud."

Okay so, that’s what the Bible says about how we live out side of God. You’re still not in agreement? You’re still thinking that hell is a big party when you die?

Okay, here is a true story of a man in the Bile that didn’t believe either. Listen to his story.

Luke 16 (The Message)

Reference found at Bible gateway

The Rich Man and Lazarus

19-21"There once was a rich man, expensively dressed in the latest fashions, wasting his days in conspicuous consumption. A poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, had been dumped on his doorstep. All he lived for was to get a meal from scraps off the rich man's table. His best friends were the dogs who came and licked his sores.

22-24"Then he died, this poor man, and was taken up by the angels to the lap of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell and in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham in the distance and Lazarus in his lap. He called out, 'Father Abraham, mercy! Have mercy! Send Lazarus to dip his finger in water to cool my tongue. I'm in agony in this fire.'

25-26"But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that in your lifetime you got the good things and Lazarus the bad things. It's not like that here. Here he's consoled and you're tormented. Besides, in all these matters there is a huge chasm set between us so that no one can go from us to you even if he wanted to, nor can anyone cross over from you to us.'

27-28"The rich man said, 'Then let me ask you, Father: Send him to the house of my father where I have five brothers, so he can tell them the score and warn them so they won't end up here in this place of torment.'

29"Abraham answered, 'They have Moses and the Prophets to tell them the score. Let them listen to them.'

30"'I know, Father Abraham,' he said, 'but they're not listening. If someone came back to them from the dead, they would change their ways.'

31"Abraham replied, 'If they won't listen to Moses and the Prophets, they're not going to be convinced by someone who rises from the dead.'"

Still no? Okay then if you have nothing to loose I challenge you to at least say this to God…”God if you are real, then I am asking you to show me. Give it a try”. What do you have to loose? But I tell you this one thing, I would rather live like there is a God and a heaven and a hell, be obedient to God and serve him and when I die find out there is none, I haven’t lost anything. Then to live a life and believe there is NO God, heaven or hell and die to find out there is a God, and yes a HELL. You have then lost everything. And you will know just how that rich man felt. I do know that there are gong to be those that have been blinded and go to hell. Are YOU one of them, I pray that you, yes you who are reading this right now will not be fooled.

CarrieG

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Comments 58 comments

Debradoo profile image

Debradoo 5 years ago from Cocoa, Florida

"Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, and in grace, my fears relieved".

If it takes the fear of hell to cause one to cry out to God, then so be it! He can take it from there.

Preach it sister. :-)


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 5 years ago from Nevada Author

Amen to the Grace of GOd. With out grace and mercy I sure would be lost. I think of the ppl that speak of hell as JUST another fun place to be, and I can't help but think and I am willing to bet a pretty penny that if their house was on fire they would run from it no questions asked..But the ignorance about the ultimate fire they have NO idea but they are gona have a party, there is NO running from it.


prairieprincess profile image

prairieprincess 5 years ago from Canada

Amen. How easy to forget about hell in our comfortable existence, but we cannot afford to do that. Praise the LORD ... for you preaching the truth. Thank you sister.


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 5 years ago from Nevada Author

Thank you prairieprincess,

so true, we get fat and lazy in that comfotable place that God has warned agginst doing. I am guilty of that myself, I find thats when God pulls out the tazer and zapps me.


kashmir56 profile image

kashmir56 5 years ago from Massachusetts

Awesome hub, i love your hub on hell it is so nice to see someone who believes in the same things i do.When you have time you may want to read the hub i did on hell. Great hub!!! Thumbs up!!!


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 5 years ago from Nevada Author

Thank you Kashmir, matter of fact the hub I was referring to and the responce back about hell was from your hub. lol And I agree about how neat it is when you find other hubs matching ours. It tells me that I am not out on left field and playing solo. lol Thank you for stopping by.


kashmir56 profile image

kashmir56 5 years ago from Massachusetts

O thats cool, just to let you know, the ending of this hub i almost used that in my hub about hell but cut it out just before i published it.I guess great minds think a like!


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 5 years ago from Nevada Author

Great minds indeed think alike, after all it was your mind in your hub that got this mind a thinkin, The scripture about what Hell thought of them was a great scripture to add on I thought. I was glad that God showed me that one.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 5 years ago from Bismarck, ND

it bugs me too that there are people who don't think that Satan is real - that all the bad things that happen in this world are all God's fault. That evil doesn't exist. One time on Facebook, a few of my FB friends were talking about what drinks they were going to be bringing to hell so they could party it up down there. I was like, "WHAT?" I commented that I didnt' think hell was going to be the party they exptected it to be. I didn't get any reaction but I hope it got them to think. Thanks for this great hub!


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 5 years ago from Nevada Author

Thank you Cari,

By the way..I think you lost an "r" in your name, it must of droped out..lol Carrie is spelled with 2 R's. Just teasing. I think people of course dont know the true Hell I dont have to convence anyone, because i am sure all of us have incountered someone in our life time that talks foolishness about hell. I tell people that talk like that "Rememeber my words and on that day that you are on your way to that big blown out party that it is not realy happening, and to rememeber those words they could of said to keep them out of the place wbere they are heading" I recomend a book for reading called "23 min in Hell. By Bill Wiese " Great book, gives an idea of what hell is going to be like. I promise it will change your thinking and want to go to everyone and tell them what it realy is going to be.

God bless you!! Thanks for stopping by to read my hubs


kashmir56 profile image

kashmir56 5 years ago from Massachusetts

Hello CarrieG hope you are having a wonderful day today!

Merry Christmas!!!


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

The Hellfire doctrine is a perverse Antichrist mendacity that defames God. As a God of justice and love he would never prescribe infinite punishment for a finite crime no matter how wicked: http://bit.ly/17fVMYm


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

Joseph,

I would agree with you on the part that God would not send anyone to hell. It's not his will or choice that anyone goes to hell. But there is a hell and you choose rather you go there or not by either following him or not. Thank you for sharing Joseph.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

Carrie,

Actually my point was that the Bible does not teach us that God sends evildoers to a fiery Hell to be tortured and burned for all eternity. The existence of such a place would contradict the Bible's own description of God as a loving person. (1 John 4:8)

What's more, this Antichrist ideology is predicated on another mendacity, to wit, that our soul is immortal:


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

Joseph,

Yes God is love, rightness and Holy. Because of his love he gives a way of escape from hell, but not everyone will choose to follow Christ. None the less this does not make God any less loving. Because of your understanding of God not creating a place where man can go to would you please explain these scripture. I agree he did not create it for man but he did for Satan and his team.

Rev 21:1-8

1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

5 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.

7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

This scripture says clearly to me the opposite of what you are saying.

Carrieg


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

Carrie,

Except that nowhere in the passage you cite is hell mentioned.


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

Joseph,

Luke 12:5 (NIV)

5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

2 Peter 2:4(NIV)

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Sorry I can't except it.

Carrieg


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

Carrie,

Actually these passages read as follows:

Luke 12:5 -

"ὑποδείξω δὲ ὑμῖν τίνα φοβηθῆτε· φοβήθητε τὸν μετὰ τὸ ἀποκτεῖναι ἔχοντα ἐξουσίαν ἐμβαλεῖν εἰς τὴν γέενναν· ναί, λέγω ὑμῖν, τοῦτον φοβήθητε" that is to say, "But I will show you whom to fear: Fear the One who after killing has authority to throw into Gehenna. Yes, I tell you, fear this One."

2 Peter 2:4 -

"εἰ γὰρ ὁ θεὸς ἀγγέλων ἁμαρτησάντων οὐκ ἐφείσατο, ἀλλὰ σειροῖς ζόφου ταρταρώσας παρέδωκεν εἰς κρίσιν τηρουμένους," that is to say, "Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tartarus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment."

As you can plainly see, neither passage references hell.


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

Call it what you want to, call it Hell, Gehenna, or Tartarus call it the names you want in the MANY translations. It's obvious God created a place of burning and torment and those who refuse to except the free gift of salvation will find them selves there. Your origanal post stated that a loving God would not make such a place, obviously he did despite your sifting the conversations to one of Symantec argueing what name to call it by. I choose to call eternal separation and or eternal torment and burning "hell".


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

That's why I quoted the original Koine. We don't see hell being mentioned much less described in any of the passages you cited.

To make this even more abundantly clear let's see what the Koine term γέενναν actually means:

Gehenna occurs 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, and it refers to the valley of Hinnom, outside the walls of Jerusalem. When Jesus was on earth, this valley was used as a garbage dump, "where the dead bodies of criminals, and the carcasses of animals, and every other kind of filth was cast." (Smith's Dictionary of the Bible) The fires were kept burning by adding sulfur to burn up the refuse. Jesus used that valley as a proper symbol of everlasting destruction.

As does Gehenna, the lake of fire symbolizes eternal destruction. Death AND HELL are "hurled into" it in that they will be done away with when mankind is freed from sin and the condemnation of death. Willful, unrepentant sinners will also have their "portion" in that lake. (Revelation 20:14; 21:8) They too will be annihilated forever, not tortured for all eternity.


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

You stated, "The fires were kept burning by adding sulfur to burn up the refuse. Jesus used that valley as a proper symbol of everlasting destruction." By your admission there is a place of "everlasting distruction." I understand the word hell is not used, so instead of heaven and hell, you prefer heaven and a place of eternal destruction...ok, again that is simply semantics. Your point originally was that such a place would go against Gods loving nature. Does everlasting destruction fit your idea of His loving nature more. I don't think either compromise it at all since they were created out of His righteousness and Holiness, it is His loving nature that created the escape for EVERY ONE that will be saved. I am not sure why you feel the need to soften whatever hell or eternal destruction means. It will not be a good thing no matter what you call it. what is the agenda in removing the word hell when the concept remains? It is eternal, it is destruction, it is without the presence of Jesus. There is no relief from it. Btw, do you also deny the presence of the trinity? That also is a doctrine that is not mentioned in the Bible but is formed out of the whole of Scripture just as the doctrine of hell is, as a way to put a word on a concept that we can talk about. What does denying the existence of hell do for you...as Dr. Phil says, what's in it for you? Why so much energy arguing such a unimportant issue of semantics instead of talking about salvation. what to call what awaits people who reject Christ on the other side of life, does not really matter much...it will be "hell" as we understand the word in our common vernacular in America in the year 2015.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

How are everlasting destruction and eternal torment the same thing?


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

"do you also deny the presence of the trinity?"

Actually I'm so very glad you bring this up since I've been trying for the longest time to get a straight answer from anyone. Which version of the Athanasian Creed is the correct one and why? Is it:

1. Modalism

2. Latin Trinitarianism

2.1 Divine Life Stream Theories

2.2 Relative Identity Theories

3. Social Trinitarianism

3.1 Functional Monotheist Social Trinitarianism

3.2 Trinity Monotheist Social Trinitarianism

3.3 Perichoretic Monotheist Social Trinitarianism

3.4 Group Mind Monotheist Social Trinitarianism

4. Mysterianism

4.1 Negative Mysterianism

4.2 Positive Mysterianism


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

First of all, you avoided answering my question to you. Instead, again you try to take it in a semantic argument. I do not study senseless and useless arguments and avoid foolish controversies which do not have a lot of importance. I don't find it necessary to label anyone of man's "versions" of an "athanasian creed" as correct. I believe that the whole of Scripture reveals a Trinitarian concept as it reveals a place of eternal "destruction", torment, burning or whatever you imagine that to be...what does eternal torment have to do with eternal destruction? I don't know what you mean by your term "eternal destruction", by that do you suppose that the lost will be destroyed and simply cease to be? Is that more comforting to you? Do you think, "well, I can handle that...as long as I'm not burning". Does that make for a better option than heaven? God has made the gospel simple, so simple that the Kingdom will be as little children. It's concepts are simple and received by faith through revelation by the Holy Spirit and through Scriptures. I do not understand why it becomes important for people to make it all so difficult by splitting hairs and bickering over words. I suspect for many it is just an attempt to impress people by throwing around big words and being argumentative just for arguments sake. A way to show the world how intelligent they are but never really making a point. You said you were glad I brought that up because you cant get a straight answer from anyone. What answer are you looking for? Which is correct? Why? So you know which to choose...or just to show that you know a bunch of big words and to argue about all the "theories". I asked what YOU believed, not to impress me with your great knowledge. I know what I believe and yes I am open to learning what I don't know and insights from scripture but I am not going to use my time looking for ridiculous arguments to have over a bunch of big words that I cut and pasted off the internet. I wish the best for you as you search for truth but I am not interested in debates. I write what I write because I enjoy writing and it is based on my beliefs. If you have your own set of beliefs, I suggest you write on them. I notice you have no hubs of your own, did you join just to troll around and make controversies and debates? if so, you may find more "fun" elsewhere, I'm just not interested.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

"I don't know what you mean by your term "eternal destruction""

Take, for instance, what God told Adam would happen to him as a result of disobeying him. At Genesis 3:19 we read, "In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”" Did God here say that Adam would live out eternity in some other realm of fire and perpetual torment? No. He simply told Adam that he would cease to exist. This is what I mean with the expression "eternal destruction."


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

"I do not understand why it becomes important for people to make it all so difficult by splitting hairs and bickering over words."

It's because "many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1) It is these false prophets who, by preaching Hellfire, push people away from God and right into the waiting arms of Islam, Witchcraft or even Atheism.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

"I asked what YOU believed"

Fair enough. I believe what Christ taught here at Luke 4:8 where he quoted Deuteronomy 6:13: "“It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”"


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

Joseph,

Since you are a JW we will not get anywhere with this conversation. I suggest you read the bible and study the whole of scripture and not just the teachings that are brought to you by your sect. I would also suggest studying in many translations including the originals (not just what someone tells you the original say) And not just the new world translation. I pray in your search of truth you find the Lordship of Jesus Christ who was and is and is to come the very word of God and one with the father. That revelation will have eternal significance and is worthy of seeking out the truth in.

Carrieg


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

"I suggest you read the bible and study the whole of scripture"

I have. I've even quoted you Scripture in the ORIGINAL Greek which, I'm almost certain, you cannot even read.

That being the case, how do YOU know what you believe and teach is actually the truth?


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

I wont even lower myself to respond to that, to much ignorance is starting to surface. This thread is over. God bless you and have a nice night.

Carrieg


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

I don't think you're ignorant ...


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

Exactly! I'm not.


Caleb DRC profile image

Caleb DRC 19 months ago

Hi Carrie,

I thought this would be an appropriate hub to answer your questions, but first I want to comment on this hub: Scripture is extremely clear on this subject, and you are correct--hell as it is described in Scripture does indeed exist. Whether it is palatable to any of us is totally irrelevant. I have had several debates on this with JW's and others, even "Christians" so called, but they will not address the clear Scripture on this.

In answer to your forum questions, yes, I believe we are commanded to witness to others, and if we truly love them we will be compelled to do so; however, if someone is adamantly against our witness then I think we should cease for the reasons stated in the forum.

As far as your evidence part of your question is concerned--God has already abundantly done that in His Creation, as Romans 1:20 states. One thing that just tweaks me to no end--to the max--is when atheists and even Christians--YES EVEN CHRISTIANS--say there is no evidence of God's existence. That is like pointing to a skyscraper and saying there is no evidence of the architect who designed it or the construction firm who built it, or worse yet, saying it does not exist at all. "No evidence of God's existence." ???--What an unbelievably and unfathomably simple-minded and asinine statement. Read my DNA hub, and that is a drop in the ocean of the evidences God has given us of His existence.

Do I give atheists evidence of God's existence? Of course! But there again, as I said at the forum, there eyes are blinded to it. All the evidence, logic and mathematical proof in the entire universe will not convince them.


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

Caleb, Thank you for getting back with me. And thank you for reading my hub. I agree with what you say but I'm going to push the envelop a little farther. I believe in witnessing to people and I believe if they reject it we are to wipe the sand from our feet. Also, one key about witnessing is, if they are not open and desiring to be witnessed to then the scripture comes to mind that it's the Holy Spirit that bring them to you or as it say's "draws" them to repent. John 16:8. So I believe that unless they have been primed by the HS they will take my most preaches jewels and destroy it. Yes we are suppose to witness to everyone, but I won't debate. And I won't try to prove God exists, God doesn't need me to prove it, he does a fine job at it himself. And if they are blind and can not see God then they have not been drawn by the HS. You stated the even Christians say there is no evidence of God, I myself would not call them a Christian.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

@Caleb

If Hell truly was created to incinerate and torture the devil and his angels along with their human cohorts, then why was Jesus in hell when he died?

Acts 2:31

King James Bible

He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell.

American King James Version

He seeing this before spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell.

Bible in Basic English

He, having knowledge of the future, was talking of the coming again of Christ from the dead, that he was not kept in hell.

Douay-Rheims Bible

Foreseeing this, he spoke of the resurrection of Christ. For neither was he left in hell.

Webster's Bible Translation

He seeing this before, spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell.

Concerning Jesus, Acts 2:27 informs us -

King James Bible

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell.

American King James Version

Because you will not leave my soul in hell.

Bible in Basic English

For you will not let my soul be in hell.

Douay-Rheims Bible

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell.

Webster's Bible Translation

Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell.


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

Hello Joseph,

Thank you again for your comments and or questions.


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 19 months ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

Joseph, brother, why do you seek to divide us over this issue? You seem to ignore the valid arguments for hell being a place of eternal punishment by a blanket reasoning that a God of love wouldn't send anyone to an eternal punishment despite what scripture actually says. By that reasoning why would the God of Love allow Adam to fall into sin and condemn all humanity to separation from God? Where do YOU draw the line of God's love and God's justice? God loves us (John 3:16) and wants us to be saved from hell (2 Peter 3:9). But because God is also just and righteous, He cannot allow our sin to go unpunished. Someone has to pay for it. In His great mercy and love, God provided His own payment for our sin, which is eternal, the punishment for that sin must be eternal. Until you die, you are a mortal, finite being, you, we, really can't totally grasp the eternal aspect of a Just God who is a God of love.

You want to argue with Carrie, read these and tell me how they are wrong.

http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-hell-fair.html...

https://carm.org/hell-eternal

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/bakers...

At the very least, if you stick to your guns on this you have to admit, there is credible interpretation that disagrees with yours. If you analyze these and still feel your interpretation is the correct one, then I suppose we have to agree to disagree, but what is important is that we don't disagree on the gospel of salvation, which from what I've seen you and I and Carrie agree upon.


Caleb DRC profile image

Caleb DRC 19 months ago

Joseph,

Jesus had to be the first resurrected. He went to hell to deliver those Old Testament believers who were in the paradise department of hell. Jesus was the first resurrected and through Him--obedience to his Word--we as believers can go to heaven. I have included some of the Scripture that makes it extremely clear that hell exist as the Bible describes it.

THINGS THAT DO NOT MAKE SENSE: Only by interpreting hell as it is clearly described will make sense with the following argumentation.

Matthew( Mt.) 8:12 says, "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." MacArthur wrote, "This expression describes the eternal agonies of those in hell." Indeed, what else would it describe? Mt. 8:12 makes no sense if this was describing the grave. Try to apply the grave to other references to these agonies: Mt. 13:42, 50; 24:51; 22:13; 25:30; Luke 13:28. Here at Lk. 13:28 how can they see those prophets if they are dead, unconscious, and annihilated? The same question can be applied to weeping and gnashing of teeth. How can this agony be experienced if one is dead, unconscious and annihilated? If these verses do not apply to the experiences of those in hell, then what can they possibly be applied to? Rev. 20:14 and 15 state that both death and hell will be cast into the lake of fire. This is not annihilation because at Rev. 14:10 one cannot be tormented and dead at the same time, and verse 11 states this will be for ever and ever, and they will have no rest day nor night. One has to be conscious to have no rest. I have much more but this will keep you busy.

Other Scripture that makes no sense are those concerning degrees of punishment: At Mt. 23:14; Mk. 12:40 and Lk. 20:47 we have "the greater damnation" in my KJV. How can there be greater damnation if the grave is all there is for those not in the Book of Life? Annihilation would make those verses nonsensical, and it would make Jesus a liar because there would be no greater damnation when He specifically said they would have greater damnation. Luke 12:47 and 48 also refer to degrees of punishment in hell. Making hell the grave or annihilation would also make these verses nonsensical.

In Dake's annotated study Bible he has on page 620, column 3, "88 facts proving hell not the grave." In fact he has 2 pages jam packed with Scripture proving hell is different from the grave, hell is a place of eternal torment, and addressing other controversial aspects on this subject. I will take a picture of these pages and email them to you. That will save me a lot of time and keep the both of you very busy. I just hope the writing is not so small that you cannot read it, but we will see.

USING STRONG'S CONCORDANCE: ELIMINATING MISUNDERSTANDING:

I looked up the following words in Strong's: Outer(1857) means exterior, outer. Darkness(4655) means obscurity, darkness. Weeping(2805) means wailing, weeping. Gnashing(1030) means a grating of the teeth, gnashing. Teeth(3599) means tooth, teeth. Furnace(2575) means a furnace. Fire(4442) means fire. Everlasting(166) means perpetual, eternal, for ever, everlasting. Tormented(928) means "to torture, pain, toil, torment, toss, vex."

Some of the Scripture that apply to hell are these: Matthew( Mt.) 8:12 "cast out into outer(1857) darkness(4655); there shall be weeping(2805) and gnashing(1030) of teeth(3599)". Mt. 13:42 "cast them into a furnace(2575) of fire(4442); there shall be weeping(2805) and gnashing(1030) of teeth(3599)". Notice here it is a singular person doing the casting, not a family or other individuals. Also it is cast, not bury. Cast(1544) means to eject, cast forth, drive out, expel, send away, etc. This would be an unusual word to mean bury. Luke 13:27 "depart from me all you workers of iniquity.: V28 "There shall be weeping(2805) and gnashing(1030) of teeth(3599), when you shall see Abraham . . . and you yourselves thrust out." If they were dead, destroyed and annihilated then they could not see or be cognizant that they were thrust out.

WHAT ABOUT EVERLASTING?

Mt. 25:41 "Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting(166) fire(4442), prepared for the Devil and his angels." This concept is made very clear at Rev. 14:9 "If any man worship the Beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand." V10 "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation, and he shall be tormented(928) with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb." V11 "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night." One cannot be tormented and have no rest if he was unconscious.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

@Caleb

"He went to hell to deliver those Old Testament believers who were in the paradise department of hell."

And just where precisely is this explicitly taught in the Bible? Chapters and verses, if you kindly would :)


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

@Tsad

"By that reasoning why would the God of Love allow Adam to fall into sin and condemn all humanity to separation from God?"

John 3:16. Not all of humanity was condemned. In fact, all those who seek God and want a personal relationship with Him can do so.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

@Tsad

"He cannot allow our sin to go unpunished."

"For the wages sin pays is death," not an eternity of inhuman torture. (Romans 6:23)


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 19 months ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

And until they accept Jesus Christ and his atonement for their sins they are all condemned to separation from God, otherwise there would be no need for his sacrifice. All of humanity was condemned, how do you not understand that?

Did you not read those links I gave you? Taking one scripture at face value out of context and ignoring what it really means does not strengthen your case.You need to study commentary on this. What are you a disciple of Herbert Armstrong?


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

@Tsad

You're a glass-half-empty kinda guy, aren't you, lol :)

The point is that a way has been made for all of us who want to enjoy a close, personal relationship with our Creator.

Although, what this has to do with the Antichrist mendacity that is the Hellfire Doctrine eludes me ...


Caleb DRC profile image

Caleb DRC 19 months ago

Joseph,

Yes I will give you all that Scripture, after you have addressed the two dozen verses I gave above. How can you possibly argue the clear argumentation I gave with the Scripture to back it up? You cannot just ignore it.

1 Corinthians chapter 15 makes it very clear that Christ had to be the first resurrected. The Old Testament believers could not be bodily resurrected until Christ, but this is all I'm giving for now until you address my above argumentation. If you are truly searching for Truth then the Dake Bible I mentioned has outstanding argumentation to prove the existence of hell, the paradise department of hell, and confirms my argumentation above.

As I wrote to Carrie, people who refuse to accept the teaching of Christ on hell will not address the Scripture on this( the above I have given). After you address that then I will give the Scripture you requested besides 1 Cor. ch. 15.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

@Caleb

If the lake of fire is NOT a symbolic representation then please make sense of this for me if you would be so kind - "And the Devil was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur , where the wild beast already was ; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever ." - Revelation 20 :10

Alright , so here's the question . Precisely what wild animal is to be hurled into the lake of fire ? A tiger ? A lion ? A bear ?

Then again, precisely why would a wild beast be hurled into a lake of flame to be tormented to start with ?


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

lion tiger and bear oh my...lol

The beast refers to two beasts described in the Book of Revelation. The first beast comes from "out of the sea" and is given authority and power by the dragon. This first beast is initially mentioned in Revelation 11:7 as coming out of the abyss. His appearance is described in detail in Revelation 13:1-10, and some of the mystery behind his appearance is revealed in Revelation 17:7-18. The second beast comes from "out of the earth" and directs all peoples of the earth to worship the first beast. The second beast is described in Revelation 13:11-18 and is also referred to as the false prophet. The two beasts are aligned with the dragon in opposition to God. They persecute the "saints" and those who do "not worship the image of the beast [of the sea]" and influence the kings of the earth to gather for the battle of Armageddon. The two beasts are defeated by Christ and are thrown into the lake of fire mentioned in Revelation 19:18-20.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

@Carrie

Who does the dragon represent?


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

The dragon represents Satan.

Rev 12:7-8 7, And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

And who do the two beasts represent?


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

The beasts as symbolic representations are complicated. An in-depth study of them would consider their heads, horns, bodies, and even their rider. But for simplicity’s sake, let us look at just the big picture. The “beast” represents Roman Catholicism, particularly in its complicated relationship to “The Holy Roman Empire” and its remnants


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

@Carrie

Since these are not literal, material beasts, both the lake of fire and the torment they will experience must also be symbolic, not literal. So what is the lake of fire a symbol of? Revelation 21:8 explains: "This is the second death." In other words, it represents death without the hope of resurrection.

So what is their torment a symbol of? "The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia observed: “Probably the imprisonment itself was regarded as ‘torment’ (as it doubtless was), and the ‘tormentors’ need mean nothing more than jailers.” (Edited by J. Orr, 1960, Vol. V, p. 2999) Thus, the mentioning in Revelation 20:10 of ones who will be “tormented day and night forever and ever” evidently indicates that they will be in a condition of restraint. That a condition of restraint can be spoken of as “torment” is indicated by the parallel accounts at Matthew 8:29 and Luke 8:31.

Some commentators have pointed to Biblical instances of the word “torment” to support the teaching of eternal suffering in fire. However, as just indicated, there is Scriptural reason to believe that Revelation 20:10 does not have that sense. In fact, verse 14 shows that “the lake of fire” in which the torment occurs, actually means “the second death.” Revelation provides a number of other instances where “torment” clearly has an illustrative or symbolic sense, as is evident from context.—Re 9:5; 11:10; 18:7, 10"


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

Joseph

Please I'm not trying to be rude here, but I'm tired of beating this dead horse. I have said plenty on this matter and so has calab and tsad. But buddy I'm done. I believe you have gotten enough evidence from all of us to know what we believe in.

Have a nice day Joseph!


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 19 months ago

@Carrie

It was nice chatting with you :)


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

Joseph, if you call this chatting what is a debate to you? lol


tsadjatko profile image

tsadjatko 19 months ago from maybe (the guy or girl) next door

@joe you said "You're a glass-half-empty kinda guy, aren't you, lol :)"

Not an accurate assessment, my point is the glass HAS to be (and is) empty before you can fill it half way. :-)


Stargrrl 19 months ago

God, I wish pastors and priests would talk about hell on Sunday worship/Mass. I bet people would pay attention to them then! We all need to hear the truth!


Stargrrl 19 months ago

I also want to add that people need to get it out of their minds that they're going to be in good company in hell. It is my perception that the damned will be very much alone. That is, they may be in the pit together, but they're only together in the sense that they're burning, like animals being assembled for slaughter. Not hanging out, talking, or finding solace in each other. And they will not have hope, for no one will be coming to redeem them. I wrote a hub about hell if you'd like to check it out.


CarrieG profile image

CarrieG 19 months ago from Nevada Author

You are right. I will take a look at your hub. Have you read the book 23 minuets in hell? If no, you should. Good book. Made me want to go tell everyone they didn't want to go to hell.

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