Homophobia, racism and anti-evolutionism – bigotry and the denial of life

The devaluing of metaphor

“You shall not lie with a man as with a woman: that is an abomination.” - Leviticus 18:22 (New English Bible).

There is a, let's call it “philosophical” for want of a better word, approach to life which seems to devalue metaphor and figurative narrative, which seeks to impose a literal view of the passing show of life as definitive and of universal application.

It is a disarmingly simple philosophy, it gives clear and authoritative direction, it leaves the follower in little doubt.

It is morally questionable because it allows little room for humanity and human failings, or even the possibility of human growth except in one dimension. It is questionable philosophically because it is deterministic and monist, allowing no other explanations than the explanation given by the accepted “authority.” It is questionable epistemologically and scientifically because it simply ignores facts and insists on faith, a faith one has to accept blindly, not taking into account any other source or kind of knowledge.

This philosophy, I'm not sure if it has a name, seems to focus on three aspects of life to the exclusion of almost all other things in the vast diversity that is our wealth in this world: men loving men or women loving women; the putative hegemony of the most important or “chosen” “race” (usually the so-called “white” race); and the theory of evolution, to which it is implacably opposed.

Image from http://skrufff.com/
Image from http://skrufff.com/
This Greek cup dating from about 480 BCE shows the accepted form of homosexual love in Ancient Greece. From "Sex and Spirit" by Clifford Bishop (1996)
This Greek cup dating from about 480 BCE shows the accepted form of homosexual love in Ancient Greece. From "Sex and Spirit" by Clifford Bishop (1996)

Homophobia

Homosexuality is roundly, and pretty unequivocally, condemned by the followers of this philosophy as a “sin”, primarily on the basis of the text from Leviticus quoted above. I wonder if all the men who make this condemnation also don't “round off [their] hair from side to side, and [do not] shave the edge of [their] beards”, practices also outlawed by Leviticus (19: 27).

Sexual morality has always been a troubling thing for us humans, because of the power of sex and its importance both as a bonding process and as the mechanism of procreation. And isn't that an interesting word itself?

That same book, Leviticus, also has some harsh words to say about adultery: If a man commits adultery with his neighbour's wife, both adulterer and adulteress shall be put to death.” (20: 10- 11).

Now I don't know about you, but that word “adultery” seems to me to be fraught with a heavy weight of meaning in the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) which is not perhaps so in other religions.

Jesus himself said, “If a man divorces his wife for any cause other than unchastity he involves her in adultery; and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” Are those who condemn homosexuals as “sinners” and “deviants” all married to one woman? None of them divorced? None of them married to a divorcee?

The condemnation of homosexuals by self-righteous people of any religion reminds me of the TV evangelist who condemned what he claimed was the loose sexual morality of other people while his own pants were around his ankles. Not to be taken too seriously.

Homosexuality has been around from the beginning of time and is not found only among humans. Since on the surface homosexuality could be seen as maladaptive relative to evolution, much research is still going on into the nature of homosexuality.

That homosexual humans have been subjected to sometimes vicious discrimination at times has led to, in more recent years, an aggressive assertion of gay and lesbian rights. Within the Christian churches especially homophobia has led to much hatred and acrimony.

One of the churches most affected by this has been the worldwide Anglican communion which is threatened with schism over the issue. In 2007 the Church received a report on the issue from the Royal College of Psychiatrists which stated, among other things, "It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice, though sexual behaviour clearly is."

Sexuality and all its wonder is too precious and beautiful to be taken over by bigots. Liberty surely is not licence, and morality is just as surely not condemnation.

Image from http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters2.htm
Image from http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters2.htm

Translation of the text of the poster above

German people’s comrades! German housewives!

You all know the disgraceful methods that so-called “German” Jews abroad are using to incite against the German people and Adolf Hitler’s national government.

If we do not want to give up and sink into deeper misery, we must defend ourselves.

We therefore call on you to heed the appeal of our Führer, the German people’s chancellor,

for a boycott against the Jews

and expect the full support of each person in this defensive action.

Do not buy from Jewish shops!

Do not go to a Jewish doctor!

But maintain the strictest discipline. Do not even touch the hair on a Jew’s head.

The boycott begins Saturday morning at 10:00 a.m.

From that moment on, we will watch to ensure that the boycott is strictly followed. He who tries to ignore the boycott will be seen as an enemy of the German people.

On Saturday morning at 9:30 at the Lindenplatz and the Pflänzer there will be a large public

Boycott Meeting

Appear in masses and show that, in the hour of need, you stand with the German people.

In Geisenheim, the following establishments will be boycotted:

Georg Strauß, grain merchant, Marktstraße
Gebr. Strauß, shop, Marktstraße
Moritz Strauß, ironware, Marktstraße
Hugo Forst, leather goods, Landstraße
Dr. Nathan, physician, Landstraße
Löwenthal, butcher, Pflänzer

The local group office of the NSDAP

Courtesy of Ken Fields.


Racism

“There is no such thing as Jew and Greek, slave and freeman, male and female; for you are all one person in Christ Jesus.” - St Paul's Letter to the Galatians, 3:28. (New English Bible)

Now I don't know about you, dear reader, but that seems pretty clear to me. If you are a Christian, don't discriminate.

The very concept of “race” is in fact a myth with no basis in biology or anywhere else. That arch-racist, the one whose racism has caused so much misery and conflict in the last century, Adolf Hitler, knew that race was a fiction, and yet he built his whole “1000-year Reich” on it, quite deliberately: “I know perfectly well … that in a scientific sense there is no such thing as race, but I, as a politician need a concept which enables the order which has hitherto existed on historic bases to be abolished and an entirely new and antihistoric order enforced and given an intellectual basis ...And for this purpose the concept of races serves me well ...With the concept of race, National Socialism will carry its revolution abroad and recast the world.”

Well, thank God it didn't at the time, but perhaps those of us who still preach racism will try to keep it going for the 1000 years.

As John F. Kennedy said, “There are no 'white' or 'coloured' signs on the graveyards of battle.” Think about that a while!

There are, however, still those who would say that all of Western culture and its wonderful achievements was created by white people, forgetting that millions of people of other “races” died to enable those achievements.

This view also simply ignores the fact that so-called “Western Culture” is an amalgam of many cultural currents which flowed, and still flow, in the world.

“Whites” have no moral or rational reasons to claim any special place in the world.Indeed some of the worst atrocities committed in the last 100 years or so were committed by whites. At the same time it is important to note that no other "race" can claim any special place either. In the great stream of history no "race" has so distinguished itself that it can make such a claim.

Albert Camus wrote in 1951, after the horrors of the Second World War, apropos of something else, admittedly, but it still has relevance to this point: “Who, despite the pretensions of this society, can sleep in it in peace, when they know that it derives its mediocre pleasures from the work of millions of dead souls?”

Creation of "Adam" and "Eve" from the 9th Century Grandval Bible
Creation of "Adam" and "Eve" from the 9th Century Grandval Bible
A common form of attack on Darwin's ideas. Image from Edward Craig's "Philosophy, a very short introduction"
A common form of attack on Darwin's ideas. Image from Edward Craig's "Philosophy, a very short introduction"

Evolution

A dear friend recently sent me a sort of family newsletter, the sort that people like to send to all those they know when changes occur or at special times. He ended his newsletter with the words: “ek glo aan God die Vader, ek glo aan God die Seun, ek glo aan God die Heilige Gees, en verwerp die evolusie teorie in totaal (I believe in God the Father, I believe in God the Son, I believe in God the Holy Spirit, and reject the theory of evolution in its totality)”.

I have no problem with his credo, his belief in the Triune God, that's really OK with me. I might not share it, but it's really OK. But what about that last phrase, the one about evolution?

Now we have never discussed evolution, so I did wonder a little about why he inserted that – maybe someone else to whom he sent it does accept evolution, I don't know, and he wanted to send a message to that person.

Evolution is a scientific theory propounded, not for the first time, but most effectively, by Charles Darwin in his great book The Origin of Species .

More ink has been spilt and more bile spread over this book than perhaps any other in the history of books!

Those who accept evolution as a possible explanation of the origin, diversity and proliferation of life in the world have been called “demon-possessed”, “liars” and “atheists”, “immoral” and all sorts of other names.

Why a scientific theory propounded a century and a half ago still excites such vitriol is difficult to understand. After all, the question is a rather simple one: which is more credible and scientific, that “the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life” (Genesis 2: 7); or that life evolved in a long process over aeons, a process which is still continuing today, and that humans are part of this evolutionary process?

For me that is a no-brainer. The evidence in support of evolution is overwhelming in comparison with the evidence for "special creation", which is, frankly, non-existent.

I come back to the literalist versus metaphorical view of life. I can accept the Genesis text as a wonderful, metaphorical statement of how connected we humans are with the world – we are formed from the same material as everything we see around us. And we have a breath of life in us – we have a consciousness which helps to question and seek answers and reasons for the world around us, for our experiences. I have no problem with that.

However to call me “demon-possessed” because I don't take that text literally, because I don't believe that some extra-terrestrial being physically formed me like a clay model and then made me breath, that is a bit much!

Because there is absolutely no evidence for the Genesis story, none whatsoever. So asking me to believe it is asking me to deny my reason, to give up on knowing based on fact, and accept a fairy-tale as the truth. Now, don't get me wrong. The fairy tale can be truth, in the sense that it teaches us something especially in the moral sphere. What is teaches me is that life is precious and that we as people are unique. Not that some deus ex machina came into the world from somewhere and fashioned a clay doll which he or she then, Pygmalion-like, made come alive.

I love fairy tales because they expand our minds, they give a glimpse into experiences beyond our own. They enrich us. They enhance our creativity.

But they do not describe scientific fact. When they are read literally instead of as metaphors they can be deadly.

Flower of Life. The symbol can be used as a metaphor to illustrate the connectedness of all life and spirit within the universe.  Image by by Justin Mackey Facebook.
Flower of Life. The symbol can be used as a metaphor to illustrate the connectedness of all life and spirit within the universe. Image by by Justin Mackey Facebook.

What is this philosophy?

First off I have to admit that I am taking just three of the factors that followers of this as yet unnamed (as far as I know) philosophy get hot under the collar about. There are also factors like abortion on demand, guns and violence, and more. I have just taken the three factors here as being the most indicative of the philosophy. If I encounter racism in a person I think I will most likely, though not always, find anti-evolutionism and homophobia. If I find homophobia, almost certainly racism and anti-evolution will follow quite soon. Where there is strong anti-evolutionism there is almost bound to be racism and homophobia.

As I say, not an inviolable rule, but one which seems to apply rather often.

Why is it important to understand this philosophy?

I think it is important to understand and to oppose this philosophy because it is fundamentally (a word very relevant to it) anti-human.It is an approach to life that does not allow for ambiguity, and we humans are nothing if not ambiguous in so many ways.

It is a philosophy which wants us to deny our humanity, especially our reason, but also our sexuality and our oneness with all other humans and indeed, all of life, except on its own rather limiting terms.

Finally, this philosophy is a problem because of its insistence on its special position in society. It wants all of society to conform to its beliefs and moral code and makes a sharp division in society between the "us" who accept this philosophy and the "them" who do not.

So it is a philosophy of conflict, a philosophy which both feeds on and feeds insecurities about the self and the place of the self in society.

Two important issues to note

Firstly those who share the philosophy or worldview that I have briefly described here are not bad people. On the contrary they are very often very fine and good people with deep convictions.

Secondly it is not only Christians who have this kind of worldview. It is found among other religions too, though most often within the three Abrahamic ones. Indeed it seems to be the very reverence for the "word" that is a common characteristic of these religions that causes the problem of this worldview.

The word is seen as literally the "word of God" and so not open to human interpretation - the denial of metaphor is seen as an article of faith. Literalism becomes synonymous with rectitude, encouraging the us-and-them exclusivity that is the cause of so much mistrust and conflict in the world.

Copyright Notice

The text and all images on this page, unless otherwise indicated, are by Tony McGregor who hereby asserts his copyright on the material. Should you wish to use any of the text or images feel free to do so with proper attribution and, if possible, a link back to this page. Thank you.

© Tony McGregor 2011

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Comments 65 comments

randslam profile image

randslam 5 years ago from Kelowna, British Columbia

Thank you for a small dissertation on the evils of homophobia, anti-evolution and racism. Your explanation may not be complete as I understand you are trying to form some sort of philosophy.

Universal Tolerantism? May be a label to remove the judgmental nature of many faiths. Live and let live--is this not the question?

At any rate, I enjoyed your hub. It should make us think.


Mentalist acer profile image

Mentalist acer 5 years ago from A Voice in your Mind!

I think live and let live is definitly the question...and the answer...hell I've seen science theorize reality nothing more than a math equazion as literal existence.;)


justom profile image

justom 5 years ago from 41042

Brilliant Tony and I could not agree more. Finding common ground is magic. People are people and I always try to find something good in everyone. I love the line from the Bob Marley song that says "Until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes, there will be war! Your writing is addicting! Peace!! Tom


Dim Flaxenwick profile image

Dim Flaxenwick 5 years ago from Great Britain

Wow! You certainly put a lot of work into that. Whether or not l agree with parts of it , it was unconditionally a wonderful hub. Thank you, Tony.

love and peace as always x


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Randslam - thanks for your great comment. This Hub was written with a serious intent but in a slightly light-hearted way. It's a little more than "live and let live" as I would not like to apply that maxim to someone like Hitler. The question for me is more around how do we practice tolerance and understanding and still be able to oppose people who do manifestly bad things?

Certainly the morality that I poked some gentle fun at in this Hub will not help us - indeed it is part of the problem.

Thanks again for stopping by.

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Bryan - thanks for stopping by. See my comment to Rand above about "live and let live"! Science might not have the final answers to everything but it is always a "work in progress" and that is what makes it hopeful, I think.

Love and peace

Tony


attemptedhumour profile image

attemptedhumour 5 years ago from Australia

Brilliantly put Tony. I try to stay out of the Religion v Evolution debate as both sides tend to knock their heads against a brick wall. But when homophobia rears its ugly head i have to make a stand and defend the rights of tolerance with regard to personal sexual preference. Cheers my friend. xxxx


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Tom - you are very kind! Thanks for the wonderful comment. The Bob Marley quote is great.

Thanks for stopping by.

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Dim - thanks for the lovely comment. I realloy don't expect total agreement - just an interesting debate! Thanks for the kind words.

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Keith - thanks for stopping by. The religion-evolution debate can seem quite sterile sometimes but for me there is an important principle at stake there. Homophobia and racism are also very important issues. Understanding and acceptance are key.

Love and peace

Tony


Mr. Happy profile image

Mr. Happy 5 years ago from Toronto, Canada

These are such difficult topics to discuss. If you met me fifteen years ago, you would have had to deal with a seriously racist donkey. Not that this is an excuse but growing up for me was quite different than what the majority of north Americans experience in their childhood.

Growing up in the dictatorial regime in Romania was challenging for many reasons. I saw the first coloured person (an African American man) when I was about six or seven and I didn't know what to think. I followed him down the street for a short while just staring (lol) then, I ran to the house to ask my grandma to explain to me what I saw.

For one reason or another, I grew-up quite racist. The gypsy issue in Romania strengthened that feeling. For the most part in Romania gypsies stay with gypsies and Romanians with Romanians. Although I had a friend in public school who was a gypsy and I liked him. He came from a poor family and he had all sort of problems, that I knew. I was told not to hang-out with such kids (the bad type) though and thus, for the time there I remained ignorant.

Obviously when I got to Canada I was going to have problems with such a mentality. So, I got into fights. I said some nasty things and defended myself when challenged. I deserved a beating and I never got it because for better or worse I trained in shoto-khan karate for almost seven years. A cocky little bastard I was.

Until one day in high-school, I met an African American guy who I liked for some reason and he definitely liked me. It did not take long and we became friends. Him and I did much dirt in high-school; together we were one. Things changed extremely fast when I saw how much love the brother had for me. Out of nowhere ... it made me think. He dispelled my racism like it was a weak spell. His friendship was one of the most important friendships I ever had in my life I think.

(I woke up at a quoter to five because I was thirsty. Then, I went for a smoke. Half an hour later I find that I have written you story ... my life is strange ...)

Thank you for a great blog Mr. Tony. Much needed! Rated it up and all!


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Mr Happy - thank you so much for your wonderful "story" - I really enjoyed it and it added another dimension to this Hub, for which I am grateful.

I think it is in relationships that the opportunity for change usually happens. When we make a deep and enduring friendship or fall in love we are perhaps most open to new knowledge and new experiences which can be so helpful in overcoming prejudice.

Thanks again for stopping by and leaving such an interesting comment. I really like it!

Love and peace

Tony


Highvoltagewriter profile image

Highvoltagewriter 5 years ago from Savannah GA.

What a great hub tonymac! Very courageous and filled with insight. It is an article I will bookmark and re-read, for I want to be clear on all the statements you made. I especially enjoyed the video, for it made clear the reality that to close our minds can become a dangerous thing!

As you know, I have a slightly different opinion when it comes to Creation verses evolution, I just fill that a lot of the so called "evidence" for evolution has been misinterpreted. However, this is a subject for yet another hub...The main point I want to make is that it is sad that a persons philosophy is promoted in hateful ways and is something I strive to avoid!

Thanks again for this brilliant bit of writing!


Doug Turner Jr. 5 years ago

Your writing is expert, which I'm sure you know quite well (no accidents when it comes to great writing). This was informed, logical, and open-minded; you aren't preaching a right or wrong way, just tolerance. I'd like to hope I'm in the same boat as you; differences will always arise, but it is the ability to openly discuss those differences, that is so important. Cheers Tony. Thank you


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

HVW - thanks so much for the really wonderful comment and very kind words. I do appreciate them very much. I know we differ a bit on the question of evolution, but that's what debate and discussion is all about, sharing our opinions and thoughts.

I totally agree with you about some people promoting their world views in hateful ways - that is very sad indeed.

Thanks again for stopping by.

Love and peace

Tony


Multiman 5 years ago

Wow, what a tour de force!


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Doug - your comment is very beautiful and kind, thank you. Makes the work of writing this seem so much more worthwhile.

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Ian - I appreciate your comment very much indeed! Thank you, kind sir!

Love and peace

Tony


Dame Scribe profile image

Dame Scribe 5 years ago from Canada

I think there should be more teachings about 'Forgiveness' if one's sensibilities are offended upon learning the business of others. Some information really is none of our business and if we can stand together and 'voice' concerns of poor behavior. Maybe those hurting others direct or indirectly - might change. Wishful thinking, yeah. :) great writing!


always exploring profile image

always exploring 5 years ago from Southern Illinois

You are so 'right on' with your writing. The key word is tolerance. Not all people believe the same and that's fine, respect the right of other's to believe and one race is not above the other. We are all human. I think the main thing i can take from your article, judging another is not for us to do. Who are we to say that something is right or wrong. Thank you for a very informative and well written hub.

Love and Peace


HSchneider 5 years ago from Parsippany, New Jersey

As expected, another intelligent and thoughtful Hub from you TonyMac. How anyone can be racist regardless of religion always escapes me anyhow. You are right that it is against any religious teachings that I have heard of. Homophobia is just another example of hating what you do not understand. I get that religions find it immoral and can site holy passages against homosexuality. But you can also site passages for it like Love everyone as you do yourself. I paraphrase but it is in all religious texts. Anti-evolutionism is simply ignorance and shutting your mind off to facts. Most religious scriptures such as the bible give parables that try to explain God creating the earth. They are not meant to be literal especially in a world back then of much more limited knowledge. I don't find these texts being in conflict with science and it takes small, narrow, and unadventurous minds to not see this. Anyway, wonderful Hub and great food for thought. Thank you Tony and keep these gems coming.


Loves To Read profile image

Loves To Read 5 years ago

Tony, as a Born Again, Spirit Filled Christian, of course some of my beliefs differ vastly from what you have written here. It is blatantly clear that God created woman to be with man and thus procreate the earth. There is NO species whether human, animal or insect that are predominately male and female that can produce offspring unless both sexes are joined.

As far as us humans God created all men equal, so racism is definitely wrong in any sense. And we are told NOT to judge anyone or we will also be judged.

Most of the problems we face today are definitely due to ignorance whether it has been taught from childhood or saturated by media sources all over the world. Powers that be have used scare tactics to frighten and control people into certain ways of thinking.

It is only knowledge that empowers one to make their own decisions and therefore be comfortable with what they believe. You have indeed put them to this task.

Very interesting and challenging hub.

Peace and Blessings


De Greek profile image

De Greek 5 years ago from UK

Tony,

I knew that nothing good would come from that annual rectal examination you told me you were scheduled for ;-)))


MartieCoetser profile image

MartieCoetser 5 years ago from South Africa

Tony, you’ve addressed these thorny issues via an admirable angle of incidence and the best selection of words. I will never be able to express my similar view on this as effectively as you have done in this hub.

THEY’ve made up their minds and will not allow facts to confuse them, while (thank God) WE can agree with each other without fearing a horrible death on a stake or a cross. If we consider the latter, we must admit that the human race certainly developed from baby-stage to toddler-stage to children-stage to teenage-stage. Although some adults managed to reach the stage of full maturity in the short time they have the privilege to experience this wonderful universe NOT created by them, I would say the human race is currently in its teenage-phase.

I believe it is important for toddlers to believe in fairy tales – they cannot at all understand life on the same level as mature adults. Every child reaches the stage where s/he realizes that the tooth-mouse is just a manipulative technique. What is important, though, for adults to realize, is not to expect of a child to think and behave like an adult, and, God forbid, never force him to do that. Blessed are those children, for their world is surely the ‘Kingdom of God’, where everything, even wetting the bed, is not wrong. And can you see the contradiction? Children don't understand sexual orientation, racism and evolution. Real children don't even think about these issues -for them it is 'God's business.'

Jong, ons twee sal wraggies groot honde uit ’n bos praat oor hierdie onderwerp.

Proudly South African and more so your virtual daughter in Hubland :))))


Ladybird33 profile image

Ladybird33 5 years ago from Georgia USA

Wow, Tony this is so powerful and the work you put into it was very real. I don't know if I agreed with all of it but I certainly learned a lot and I always try to stay open minded. Thank you for sharing, so powerful!


Rastamermaid profile image

Rastamermaid 5 years ago from Universe

Live and let live!

When it's over,it's over.

I refuse to live my life consumed with how someone else lives theirs.

I love my God,my family and myself.

If I'm so wrong,I'll find out when I die,maybe.

Good topic!

Voted up!


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Dame Scribe - thanks for the great comment. Acceptance and understanding are key.

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Ruby - I appreciate your comment so very much. Thank you. I agree that judging is not for us to do - acceptance and understanding are key. Not that I would necessarily accept everything a person might say or do, because these might not be OK things, but I think that acceptance of the person apart from behaviour is critical.

Thanks for stopping by.

Love and peace

Tony


always exploring profile image

always exploring 5 years ago from Southern Illinois

I just had to come back and say, " Martie you make me so very proud to call you friend" and Tony your writing ability is unsurpassed. Thank you.

Love and Peace


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

@Loves To Read:"There is NO species whether human, animal or insect that are predominately male and female that can produce offspring unless both sexes are joined."

That is a WRONG assumption. There are plenty that are able to reproduce without both sexes.

@Tony--well done. A bit long but well done.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia


Loves To Read profile image

Loves To Read 5 years ago

LadyG. Thank you for your comment. I do realize that there are certain species that are capable of changing their sex when natures warrant it. Also of Artificial Insemination but i am talking about God's creations, who without human intervention cannot reproduce.

Man and woman were made to reproduce, not man with man or woman with woman.

Peace and Blessings


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

These are God's creation and they are not changing sexes. You still do not understand ASEXUAL reproduction.

Who cares if they can or cannot reproduce (homosexuals) Christianity kills anyway not matter what. What if the child from a regualr couple turns out to be homosexual--would they still get the love that GOD said to give EVERYONE or would christianity make a mockery of that child--like they do today saying they CHOOSE their sexual orientation. Being so they do JUDGE everyone according to what someone taught them to. They persecute them which is only supposed to be up the that GOD you all so revere but have no idea what it is.

Have you actually read that Bible of yours and read what JESUS says, not anyone else, but JESUS? Jesus said to Love One Another As Thyself and to Do Unto Pthers as You Would Have Them Do To You. Wow that speak volums of the Chrsitinas because they can just judge and judge and punish in the name of God and yet they cannot for the life of them figure out why they get the treatment they are getting. Jesus also said that anything in the OT was no longer valid or needed and he made thNEW Covenant for a reason. So all the talk about laying with what and whom in the OT, means NOTHING. We are supposed to love one another and being prejudiced and calling it from God just doesn't cut it. It is a LIE perpetrated by all clergy that teach that we are to judge one another for race, creed, sex or any other thing.

There is no such thing as true peace and Jesus didn't bring peace and he states that in that Bible of yours too.

What exactly is a blessing?


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

Watch the NatGeo Explorer episode Sex, Lies and Gender.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/explo...

"The gender of a newborn child is not always clearly male or female. For parents of gender variant children, the decisions they face have lifelong and sometimes horribly conflicting consequences. We'll investigate the science behind gender, how doctors and parents approach these decisions, and explore traditional and controversial therapies. Then, meet Alaniz, a Desert Storm veteran who found out from an MRI that he had two ovaries and a uterus."


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

I have a question from those who get into the Christian thing. When you were *told that the Bible was the whole truth and science is not true, what happened to all the things that you learned about the body and in Biology and chemistry and Eath Science? Did they all of a sudden become untrue and to be fogotten? It would seem so.


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

HS - thanks for stopping by. Your words of support are very much appreciated too!

Thanks for a very thoughtful comment with much to think about.

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

LTR - thanks for the really interesting comment and the kind words which I truly appreciate. I agree with you that ignorance is a huge issue and stumboling block to understanding and accepting others. I find too that oftentimes people want to enforce ignorance, to prevent people knowing things because then the people might have too much power - better to keep them ignorant!

Thanks again for stopping by.

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Dimitris - what can I say? Your predictions are always accurate! But wait a minute - are you saying that this Hub is a load of ....? No? Glad to hear that!

Thanks for stopping by, good friend, and keep your eyes on my Hubs - you might yet get a surprise!

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Martie - "groot honde uit ’n bos" - I love that! And yes I guess we will!

Thanks for a thoughtful and thought-provoking comment, which I really appreciate. Your child development analogy is excellent and much appreciated too.

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Ladybird - thanks so much for the wonderful comment. I truly appreciate it. Agreement is less important, I think, than mutual understanding!

Thanks again for stopping by.

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Rastamermaid - thank you so much for that interesting comment! Especially I like "I refuse to live my life consumed with how someone else lives theirs." So true.

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Ruby - thank you very much for coming back and leaving such a kind comment. Martie is special, isn't she?!

Love and peace

Tony


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

LG - see what happens when I go to sleep - a whole conversation starts on my Hub! I love it.

Thanks for stopping by and I'm sorry you found it a bit long! I guess I do tend to go on a bit. Will watch out for that in future.

Thanks again for stopping by.

Love and peace

Tony


De Greek profile image

De Greek 5 years ago from UK

Tony,

Just in case you do not return to read my response to your comment on my hub about quiting smoking, I am now curious about the New World Hotel, so if you have any friends in that fair city, perhaps you can ask for me? :-))


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 5 years ago from West Virginia

One thing on the ignorance topic.....Ignorance is NOT bliss. If you went to another state and the law states so and so and it was not the same as your state.....you would still get a ticket even if you were ignorant of their laws. If your state tells you that all the laws are the same and keeps you ignorant ...that is NOT bliss. That is a lie.


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

LG - I appreciate your inputs on this Hub, thank you. Ignorance is indeed not bliss.

Love and peace

Tony


Amanda Severn profile image

Amanda Severn 5 years ago from UK

Hi Tony, what a thorough examination of a thorny issue! A great hub, and interesting comments, too. I'm always confused by the way that devout Christians pick and choose the bits they want to believe, and discard the bits they don't. It's a strange way of going on, and you've summed it all up nicely.


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Amanda - I really appreciate your stopping by and leaving such a wonderful comment. Your kind words brightened my evening, thank you.

Love and peace

Tony


Tony DeLorger profile image

Tony DeLorger 5 years ago from Adelaide, South Australia

Great article Tony. Keep up the good work.


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Tony - thank you, I intend to do so, LOL! Thanks for stopping by with such a fabulous comment. Much appreciated.

Love and peace

Tony


Sembj profile image

Sembj 5 years ago

Hi Tony - Great article, as always. The notion of metaphor is probably one of the most powerful tools of both language and understanding - I feel I'm getting repetitive telling you how much I enjoy your writing and agree with almost all you have to say! Peace, Sem


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Sem - thanks for the kind words. Metaphor is powerful and I think much misunderstood and the cause also of quite a lot of misunderstanding.

Thanks for stopping by.

Love and peace

Tony


Micky Dee profile image

Micky Dee 5 years ago

“If a man divorces his wife for any cause other than unchastity he involves her in adultery; and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”- I studied over this one for years.

Great write Tony. If the Bible is real, if there indeed was a Garden of Eden, if this is to be taken literally, MAN is a vegetarian- plain and simple and to eat meat is more than silly- it's wrong, completely wrong for the human being.

There was not one carnivore in the Garden of Eden. Man can preach and argue that God said everything is for man to eat- wrong. The Bible is very clear.

After the flood, man was given permission to eat meat if it was cooked.

This never replaces the FACT, according to the Bible, meat is/was never the first choice of food- BY GOD HIMSELF!

Plain as can be, Meshack, Shadrack, Abednego, and Daniel were better people, better soldiers for NOT EATING MEAT. This is irrefutable. This episode of "Daniel" had to be hundreds if not thousands of years after the Garden of Eden. It is irrefutable. Man is a vegetarian- not man's choice - it is indeed God's choice and no Christian should doubt this. If the Bible is REAL- so is man being a vegetarian. Thanks Tony.


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

My brotherman! Thanks so much for the thoughtful and thought-provoking comment. It is a powerful statement you make. I will have to spend some time thinking about what you have said here.

Thanks again, my brother, for stopping by here.

Love and peace

Tony


mannyrolando profile image

mannyrolando 5 years ago

Wow... I really enjoy reading this hub and all of the comments! I have to say I feel pretty similar to what you have expressed here... and I also have to agree Micky Dee!


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Manny - thanks for stopping by and I'm really glad you enjoyed the read and the discussion. And my brotherman Micky is a star, no doubt about that!

Thanks again for the visit.

Love and peace

Tony


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 5 years ago from Chicago

The fact that God the Creator of all that is would tell us He finds homosexual behaviors abhorrent is not because it "leaves no room for human failings." Humans fail to keep ALL of God's rules. The difference therefore is between being proud and defiant at breaking His rules, versus being humble and repentant.

There is absolutely zero proof that people are born into homosexual proclivities. And even if they are, so what? What if you were born into proclivities to pedastry or kleptomania or bestiality? To call a spade a spade is not to "hate." That is homosexual propaganda. Do you "hate" everything you do not endorse?


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

"All of God's rules," James?

I can certainly agree with some of them like Leviticus 19: 33 & 34: "When an alien settles with you in your land, you shall not oppress him. He shall be treated as a native born among you, and you shall love him as a man like yourself, because you were aliens in Egypt."

Or verse 35: "You shall not pervert justice in measurement of length, weight, or quantity."

But how about some of those mentioned in the Hub, like Leviticus 19: 27: "You shall not round off your hair from side to side, and you shall not shave the edge of your beards"?

Or 20: 10: "If a man commits adultery with his neighbour's wife, both adulterer and adulteress shall be put to death"?

Some of God's rules seem rather petty, and others rather bloodthirsty. And we are not a nomadic, tribal society any more. The people for whom these rules were made were in many ways very different from us and the circumstances of their lives were different.

As for calling a spade a spade, I have no problem with that. We just need to agree on the definition of "spade"!

I think that there is much in the anti-gay propaganda that is highly judgemental of gay people, calling them sinners and evil and the like. Not to mention the many examples of people being killed because they were gay, among them my own brother in law from my first marriage.

Now whether being gay is a choice or not is another debate perhaps. All I know is that I saw my late brother in law's struggle with his gayness, which he felt guilty about and I know that he did not choose it. It caused him immense pain because he had been indoctrinated that to be gay was to be in sin.

I have seen my second wife's cousin who has no such hangup about his gayness, which, thankfully, is no longer illegal in South Africa. He is comfortable in himself, has married a gay partner and they have adopted a young boy whom they are giving the best education and a loving, caring home life. The boy is like any other boy of his age, doing age-appropriate things and as far as I can tell growing up well-adjusted and happy. He is delightful.

So am I to condemn my wife's cousin, call him a "sinner" because he lies "with a man as with a woman"? I think not. Rather I support him for being the good member of society that he is, for making a contribution by adopting a child who would otherwise not have had a stable home life and giving him the example of love.

So now I have almost written another Hub!

Thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment. While I disagree with your point of view I certainly admire you for putting your case well! And you are a good writer.

Love and peace

Tony


Jane Bovary profile image

Jane Bovary 5 years ago from The Fatal Shore

Hi Tony.

V good hub as per usual. I just wanted to say I don't think it matters whether or not homosexuality is a choice or not. To say *it's not a choice* is to somehow imply it's inherently wrong...and I can't think of a valid moral argument why it would be wrong.

Of course the Bible says it's wrong but if we accepted every moral directive that's in there without question we'd be practicing all sorts of absurd and immoral acts. C'mon we have to think for ourselves.


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Jane - thanks for this great comment. I agree too that we need to think for ourselves. We cannot base our ethics on the precepts of a book written more than 2000 years ago for a society very, very different from ours.

My writing that it's not a choice I don't see as implying that it's inherently wrong. In fact something over which a person has no control cannot be morally wrong. I cannot be held responsible for my hazel eyes or my flat feet.

As for the source or cause of homosexuality there seem to be indications that it is written into the DNA.

My point is to counter the argument from so many, in particular the right wing Christians, that homosexuality is somehow "unnatural" and therefore wrong. Homosexuality has been with us since the dawn of human kind and will continue to be with us for the foreseeable future, and nothing the right wing Christians or fundamentalists of any other stripe can do will change that.

The prejudice against homosexuals is just that, an opinion based on a lack of knowledge and a fear of difference. In human matters there is very little that is not ambiguous and that scares many people. They want the comfort of unambiguous rules that make independent thought not only unnecessary but undesirable.

In matters sexual especially many people are scared of its power and so want to cover it up, literally in some cases, want to make it a secret, hidden thing not to be spoken about in front of the children. So the search for certainty and the denial of ambiguity which I think leads to authoritarianism. Hence the desire of many for Sharia law, for the rules of God as in Leviticus, etc. Anything to neutralise the power of sex, even if it means covering your women from head to toe and having sex with a sheet between the partners, and other such things.

People who are comfortable with their own sexuality don't need that certainty.

So I agree with you there is no valid moral argument for homosexuality being "wrong" - but I think the issue of choice is something that needs to be taken into account.

Thanks again for stopping by and I hope I haven't overdone this response!

Love and peace

Tony


Jane Bovary profile image

Jane Bovary 5 years ago from The Fatal Shore

Tony,

No, of course you haven't overdone it. I understand your point but don't entirely agree with it. I realise *it's not a choice* (which may well be true)is often used as a defence against the unatural claim, which in itself is specious because, after all, who is to say what is or is not natural in this world? To say something is *unnatural* is really just another way to voice disapproval. We shouldn't have to pander to that.

If there's a sound argument that it's not morally wrong, then whether it's a choice or not is irrelevent. If christians were to accept the idea of homosexuality soley on the basis of 'they can't help it', that's just a condescension and they may still maintain the view that it's *wrong*. The real issue...the crucial issue...is whether or not it is morally wrong and in my view, that's the one that should be tackled.

"In fact something over which a person has no control cannot be morally wrong"

If we commit a violent act because we cannot help it, we may not be morally culpable but the act itself may be still be considered morally wrong.Defending homosexuality on the basis of compulsion is not really a defence of the act.That is, it's not a moral defence.

Anyhow, cheers


HattieMattieMae profile image

HattieMattieMae 5 years ago from Limburg, Netherlands

hmm loved your hub, and so quick to the point of things that most people do not want to look at or admit it! They are to busy sinning themselves that they forget they to are sinning. Isn't that quite a funny thing! Nice to have read this!


tonymac04 profile image

tonymac04 5 years ago from South Africa Author

Hattie - thanks for stopping by. Glad you enjoyed.

Love and peace

Tony


CuresRiches profile image

CuresRiches 5 years ago from Port Perry, Uxbridge Ontario Canada

The trouble is that the spiritual system that affects us all from all persons in administration, is a spirit system that demands as a requirement, the spirit homo orgies of 7 and the mono syllabic idiocy PA FA DA LA CA etc.

It's a demented tyranny of sheeple chicken pig disease with religious designation competitiveness as another major dilemma. from a very disappointed, Cures


recommend1 profile image

recommend1 4 years ago

Hi Tony - I think to most people with reasoning ability this is all pretty obvious stuff. The reason religion is so successful in all its shameful forms is exactly as you state - it justifies the homophobic, racist, supremicist yearnings of dimwits.

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