How Much Does God Love You?

Introduction

Amongst the rhetoric spouted by Christians is the claim that makes up the title of this hub, the claim that their God, the God of the Bible, loves you. However any amount of time spent studying most versions of Christian doctrine, at least studying critically, will lead one to conclude that God most certainly does not love you or, at the very least, that God hates sin more than he values your life.

Wages of Sin

The Bible states quite plainly that the wage of sin is death. If you sow sins into the world and do not repent and turn away from those sins to follow Christ you will be cast into the second death, Hell aka the Lake of Fire. At least that's one version of Christianity, the brand I was taught was very similar and I grew up believing that the slightest sin, from telling a little white lie to saying a few bad words, could get me burned forever.

At the same time I was being taught that God loved me. At the time it all seemed to make sense, mostly because I didn't question it. Looking back however I am both amused and disturbed by how perversely backward the idea of death being the punishment for sin really is. This is especially true in the context of modern “lovey dovey” Christianity where God's undying love for you is endlessly spouted. People will even claim to you that Christ's dying thoughts on the Cross encompassed every single individual on the planet.

After all Jesus' entire sacrifice is to pay the wage of death once and for all, for all sins, and so long as you accept that sacrifice and repent you don't have to have your flesh melted off for eternity. The entirety of Christian doctrine regarding this subject shows God's values to be sickening.

What Does God Care About?

God supposedly values and loves every human life. What God doesn't do is tolerate sin. I've had Christians tell me this to my face while defending God's decisions to commit horrific genocide against nations in the Bible. Apparently God's love is conditional, it extends only until you sin, and then is revoked in favor of wrath.

Some would argue that God still loves those he kills and damns to Hell, however no loving human being would willingly send their child to a place called the Lake of Fire for a few minutes let alone an eternity. A parent's discipline is quite opposite to God's final judgment and thus the parent analogy some apologists hide behind falls flat on its face. After all a parent's punishments are designed to correct behavior, but if God has, say, all of the Amalekites wiped from the planet down to the last child how the hell can they learn their lesson? Once you're in Hell there is no way to learn your lesson or be rehabilitated, at least not according to the vast majority of interpretations of Hell.

So God cares more about sin than he does about human life as he only rarely spares the life of those who commit sins. God also apparently cares more about the petty misdeeds of our species than he does his own son. Jesus was sent on account of our sin, was sent to save SOULS but not to save lives.

The sad part is many sins are meaningless or victimless crimes or things that quite simply shouldn't be wrong. Should working on a Saturday, the Sabbath, really be punishable by death as the Bible demands? God never retracts his statements that working on the Sabbath is a sin, or that sex before marriage is a sin, or that lusting after a married woman is a sin (although that one was Jesus). These are petty breeches of social mores.

Why would the God who created the entire Universe really give a shit about what days of the week you worked on? Are people seriously willing to believe doing these things makes you worthy of eternal punishment? If so than you've proven my point – God cares more about sin than he does about you.

The Brick Testament

http://www.thebricktestament.com/revelation/billions_to_be_ceaselessly_tortured_for_eternity/rv20_12.html
http://www.thebricktestament.com/revelation/billions_to_be_ceaselessly_tortured_for_eternity/rv20_12.html

Divine Love

The idea that God loves you sounds good on paper, it helps win people over to Christianity. After all there's lot's of people who feel alone, unloved, and who want to feel special. Telling people the creator of the vast cosmos cares for you can be emotionally persuasive. The Bible even goes so far as to say that God has the hairs on your head counted, but then he is supposed to be all knowing so perhaps that's not even a function of how much he supposedly cares about you.

In truth though the Bible presents a very different picture of God from the one that Christianity likes to parade around the public square. While it's true that the Bible claims God loves everyone it's also quite clear that God will kill you in a heart-beat if he feels like it or even torture you at the request of Satan for no reason (Job). After all we have all sinned according to the Bible, and the wages of sin are death, thus by the Bible's own logic God can kill us all and send us all to Hell, and we all deserve to go apparently.

That's divine love? A God whose rules and morals are so absolute that the slightest breech makes you worthy of eternal punishment without a chance for parole? Human love can transcend misdeeds and sins, people hurt each other all the time, they lie and cheat and steal and still find a way to forgive each other (and they forgive each other without sacrificing animals or their only son) but God's love, not so much.

Conclusion

Those that cling to Christianity will always have apologetic answers to skirt around these issues to the satisfaction of other believers. But for those of us outside the belief all we can do is shake our heads and wonder how they can continue serving so heartless a deity. The Bible describes a vile God who thinks that slavery is okay but that each and every human being is worthy of death. And yet many Christians will tell us that human life is precious Christians, it seems, are better than their God.

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Comments 43 comments

WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

You don't get it Brother Sxull. I ain't clinging to nothing. This Bozo from reddit ain't so smart. Every knee shall bow. I was a dead man walking, bro. Let me give it to you straight. Find another subject to write about. Why waste your talent on bullshit.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 4 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

God doesn't hate us, we hate ourselves. God does not exist.


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

They say what you don't know won't kill you. My heart hurts.


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

Sorry, one more thing and I am out. Here is a verse you weren't taught.

Perfect Love casts out fear.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 4 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

There is no perfect love and fear is self induced. In fact, there is no perfect anything. It's all in the eyes of the beholder.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 4 years ago from The English Midlands

Hi :)

As you must know, Titen-Sxull, I agree with you.

'God', as described in the Bible, is not a being who provides us with a very good role model. Most humans display a better sense of love and morality.


vector7 profile image

vector7 4 years ago

This is of no use to comment on in full. I will address it completely when time permits, but you are mistaken and don't understand what you think you do. It is called self deceit. Believing you know all the facts when IN FACT, you do not. Lack of love is the same as hatred my friend, and hatred destroys everything, incuding one's self.


Freeway Flyer profile image

Freeway Flyer 4 years ago

I tend to think that the God of the Bible was created by human beings in their image. And the world of Biblical times was an even harsher place than our world of today. Barbaric times will lead to a barbaric image of God.

I don't understand this notion that punishment can somehow wash away sin. In a world where all of our actions have an impact on others, injustice is unavoidable. And punishing Jesus or anyone else for sin does nothing to wipe away the injustice.

As you point out clearly, people will accept things when it comes to religion that they would never consider in any other aspect of life. If people were not conditioned to believe that the Bible is the Word of God, the notion of God releasing his wrath on "His Son" to make salvation possible for humankind would sound ridiculous. It only sounds reasonable because the concept is so embedded into our culture.

http://hubpages.com/education/Dont-Confuse-Punishm...


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 4 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

Good explanation, Freeway. This is the main reason that atheists fight to abolish religion, it brainwashes children and adults into believing absurdities.


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

Time will tell.


Freeway Flyer profile image

Freeway Flyer 4 years ago

WD Curry,

Do you have an actual argument to make? Or is "you're wrong" about the extent of it?


vector7 profile image

vector7 4 years ago

As I noted earlier Freeway, it is useless to attempt a full comment on this subject under this article, and WD is well aware of the methods used in these situations. Provocation is not going to lead him away from his wisdom.

"I don't understand this notion that punishment can somehow wash away sin."

This statement you made speaks mounds that you absolutely, and self admittedly, do not understand the Bible.

As I mentioned, take patience friend and I will give you the Truth when time permits. I do not "argue" but address things in a very kind manner and with time and patient consideration.

There isn't a need in picking fights with particular individuals. You will have a chance to read alternate perspectives on the matter attended to fully by yours truly, and I accept any questions you may have. Sarcasm is not the answer.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 4 years ago from The English Midlands

Hi Freeway Flyer :)

I have read a lot of the Bible and have been discussing these matters and reading about them for years ~ I feel pretty sure that your conclusions are correct.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 4 years ago from The English Midlands


emmaspeaks profile image

emmaspeaks 4 years ago from Kansas City

Another awesome hub, Titen! God certainly does not love and I would wholeheartedly reject his love, where he real and offer it. It would be like accepting the love of a Saddam Hussein, or Kim Jong Il. I would feel like a monster. There are some sick people in this world, mainly, christians. Voted up and shared!


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 4 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Indeed, the Bible's message seems to be "Accept God's love or else".

I've used the analogy that God is holding a gun to your head and demanding you love him. While confessing his love God decides to shoot his only son so that he doesn't have to murder you, he then demands that you accept this "loving sacrifice" and obey his every commandment. Christians seem to think they should thank God for this "sacrifice" even though God is the one who put them in danger of being shot (Hell) to begin with.


Caitlyne 4 years ago

When I read this I felt very sad. Sad for you, sad for what you believe in, sad for this world. If this is what you think, then you do not know God. Maybe you do know want to. God does not demand that you love him, that is why he gave us freewill. It is our choice. But he teaches us the difference between right and wrong. And as humans we are constantly making mistakes. He understands this, and because he loves us and does not want us to parish in hell he gave his son's life in order for us to repent. It is our choice. I love God because He walks beside me in ever form my life takes, and he understands when I fall, which I do often, and is right there to extend His hand and help me up. I urge you to go to a Bible study if you are unsure or in the very least read "The Stranger on the Road to Emmaus". The Bible is not a word to word list of what "MUST" be done and what will happen if you "FAIL". Please understand, I know that everyone has their own personal feelings on this matter, and I respect that, but know that I am not pushing any of my views on anyone who reads this. I just hope that you try to open up to God and hear what He is trying to say. We are human. We fail. We trip. We get lost. We make mistakes. But throughout all of it God is always there.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 4 years ago from back in the lab again Author

@Caitlyne

"God does not demand that you love him, that is why he gave us freewill."

Telling someone you will burn them in Hell for eternity if they choose not to love you is a demand, it's the kind of demand an evil psychopath makes.

"I just hope that you try to open up to God and hear what He is trying to say"

A decision to read and study the Bible is what lead me to abandon Christianity... a decision to seek the true God is what lead me to the realization that there probably aren't any gods (atheism).

I spent many nights in my life crying out to the heavens waiting for Jesus to touch my life, waiting for ANY god that existed to touch my life (I was a Christian from about age 8 to age 18-19), but I never got an answer. So I sought out the answer in the Bible and found the God there to be an incompetent and downright EVIL being. So I drifted to a form of pantheism, where the positive energy of the Universe was God, and where reincarnation was the real after-life.

Both Christianity and Pantheism gave lot's of warm and fuzzy feelings, comfort in the face of my mortality, a sense of being part of something greater than myself... but neither had any evidence outside of my own desire to believe, my own self-deluded faith.

I can assure you that as an atheist I am far happier.

I urge YOU to, instead of going to a Bible study, sit down and read the Bible ON YOUR OWN. Read the entire thing without getting spoon-fed the meaning by a Pastor, parent or Priest.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 4 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

I too am far happier as an atheist. It really used to bother me so much when "God" allowed babies, puppies and even birds to die.

We are NOT sinners, Caitlyn. We are natural living humans. There is no reason to treat living beings as God does. It's absurd. Once you realize that God does not actually exist, you will truly be free of fear and learn to love yourself and others.


Hulk 4 years ago

We used to be perfect and sinless (Adam and Eve) God is a Holy God and Adam and Eves fall is the reason why we are born in sin. God IS love rather you ggggbelieve it or not. Athiest spend their whole life debating against God.God created us in His own image and likeness


Lybrah 2 years ago

I want to address two things. First, you claimed that you cried out to God and then when He didn't answer you (in a way you wanted to be answered--whatever way that may have been), you turned against Him. Perhaps God was reaching out to you in a way you did not recognize? The solution is not to turn away from God. God is not sending people to hell as punishment for not loving them, He created hell for the devil and his angels. He is not a psychopath.

Second, we were designed for worship, God put that in us. This is why there are religions, but God created us to have a relationship with Him--He doesn't need to be worshipped, He is fine without us. But we were meant to have a relationship with Him, and He with us.

God does love us, Titen. Have you ever considered that He gets jealous, but that His jealousy is a good thing? He's jealous because He cares about us and wants to have a relationship with us. When we pursue other worldly things, we are straying from Him. It's like when you have a married couple and one of the two commits adultery--of course, the other person is going to be upset! That is what happened with Israel and God--He made a covenant with them, and they strayed, by making the golden calf. Of course God was mad! God knows what is best for people, and when they pursue worldly things, they are pursuing things that could NEVER fulfill their lives. God's jealousy is NOT self-centered, it is other-centered. Divine jealousy should be seen as God's willing the best for His creatures.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 2 years ago from back in the lab again Author

"He created hell for the devil and his angels. He is not a psychopath."

Any being who would create Hell and send any living being there for eternity is evil. I'm guessing that you've been angry before in your life, you've had someone hurt you or been let down in a big way. Its happened to all of us, a loved one betrays us or we are hurt. We are angry. But we don't start designing a pit in which to torture them. Whether Hell is for Lucifer or for you and I is entirely irrelevant to how evil a concept it is.

"Second, we were designed for worship, God put that in us..."

But wait, you also believe that we were designed with free will. Free will is the ability to consciously dictate our own actions, its the ability to direct our actions and thoughts. So if we were designed with free will than we were designed to live our own lives. If God just wanted an automatic worship machine he could have built one. Also, if that's what you think our destiny, the meaning to our whole lives is, to worship someone or something, that's just sad. I can't imagine a more worthless existence than one spent groveling. As for having a relationship with God, again, do I really want to have a relationship with someone who says that if I don't love them and am not obedient to their wishes I deserve eternal punishment. No.

"Perhaps God was reaching out to you in a way you did not recognize?"

Well that's certainly possible isn't it. But then the problem isn't on my end. Presuming for a moment that God exists he could communicate clearly and obviously to everyone on the planet, ending the debate on which religion is correct, putting a stop to the need for blind faith and instantly moving everyone one step closer to salvation. But God doesn't do that does he, his methods of communication are mysterious, meaning they are either mythological or indistinguishable from psychological delusion.

I wasn't angry at God for not answering me and I never "turned against God" in the sense you are implying. My journey out of Christianity was fairly gradual and even after that I still believed in a god of some kind for several years, seeking answers, looking for the supernatural wherever I could and never finding anything even remotely compelling or concrete.

Many believers have this idea that atheists are angry at God. How can I be angry at something I don't even think is out there. What makes me angry is seeing otherwise intelligent people still feeding from the mouth of madness.

"God's jealousy is NOT self-centered, it is other-centered."

Bull. Shit. I mean come on you just got done saying that we were created to worship him and have a relationship with him. That's not other-centered.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

I wish I could copy your answers and post them on Bubblews Titen-Sxull. You are so much more eloquent and patient than I am!


Lybrah 2 years ago

Titen, when you think about the great evil atrocities that Satan and his demons have committed over the years, a lake of fire seems appropriate for them. Think of every evil caused by Satan. And then human beings who commit murders and abuse children--they too, deserve to burn.

I'm trying to get you to see that God and His creation were meant to be together. God is a loving God, but He has limits and rules. I don't know that He would seriously care whether or not we eat bacon, but He must have had some reason behind it. And regarding those people He had killed, can you imagine that maybe they NEVER would have repented, no matter what chances God may have given them?

Going back to good and evil, God's reasons for destroying people may not have been simply malicious--perhaps He was doing some good from getting rid of some bad people and letting His own chosen people win. And you don't know what He did with the souls of those who perished. Perhaps He let some of the babies into heaven, which is supposedly such a much better place than here--that no one can describe it. You just don't know.

You appear to be angry in your mocking of God and His antics. It comes off as angry because the nature of your hubs are so scornful and negative. It is one thing to not believe, but to spend time maligning God is just dangerous, for you. I don't want to see you in eternal fire.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

Lybrah - God created Satan and all his demons too.


Lybrah 2 years ago

God created them as angels, and they turned themselves into demons, of their own accord. Satan was once a perfect angel named Lucifer, but his own pride took over and ruined his personality, and his fate. He convinced a third of the angels to rebel against God--this was not God's doing, but He let it happen--I don't know why.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 2 years ago from Southern Georgia

So...who tempted Satan/Lucifer to be evil?


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 2 years ago from The English Midlands

On the subject of killing and abusing children, I'm afraid that I always have to come back to the slaughter of the Amalekite babies (amongst others).


Lybrah 2 years ago

Satan tempted himself. He became evil by himself.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 2 years ago from Southern Georgia

He was supposedly created perfect by God himself. Could evil penetrate God's perfect creation so easily without his allowing it to happen? If so, I question God's claim of being all-powerful, but I'm happy to listen if you have a good explanation for the failure.


Lybrah 2 years ago

God is EVERYTHING--evil included. Does He choose to be evil? Maybe sometimes. Mostly though, He chooses not to be. Satan chose to be evil ALL THE TIME.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

@RandyGodwin - And there you have it. God knows all, sees all, creates all, is all, does all, and who are YOU to question such greatness?


Lybrah 2 years ago

Seriously, Austinstar WHO ARE ALL OF YOU to question such greatness????


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

@Lybrah - and who are YOU? All you ever do is repeat the same old tired arguments that you were brainwashed with.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 2 years ago from Southern Georgia

I am the mighty OZ!!! lol! Besides, my surname indicates I'm half God anyway. :P


Lybrah 2 years ago

Austinstar, if you feel that way, stop butting in our discussions and commenting. I only want to talk to Titen-Sxull, anyway.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 2 years ago from Southern Georgia

Woo hoo! What a Xtian attitude! :o


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

@Lybrah - oh boo hoo Diva only wants to talk to Titen. Sorry, this is a public comment area and it's not your hub. Titen-Sxull gets to decide who can comment here and who can't.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 2 years ago from back in the lab again Author

"Think of every evil caused by Satan."

I can't think of a single one. Even in the Bible Satan barely does anything. In almost every instance when atrocities are mentioned it is under God's command or being directly done by God. As I said the only children Satan kills in the Bible are Jobs, and he gets permission from God first. God says yes.

"And then human beings who commit murders and abuse children--they too, deserve to burn."

No they don't. A finite list of sins cannot deserve an infinite punishment.

"but He must have had some reason behind it"

The reason is that the Bible was written thousands of years ago by primitive men. It is not inspired by a deity or any supernatural forces of any kind.

"God's reasons for destroying people may not have been simply malicious"

The intentions of God's genocidal rampages in the Bible are irrelevant. Hitler believed he was helping the "master race" by exterminating Jews, he believed what he was doing was right. Good intentions do not erase vile and unspeakable deeds.

Saying that they went to Heaven doesn't help either, at all, in fact its pathetic and disgusting. We wouldn't allow child murderers to get away with their crime based on the idea that the child went to Heaven would we? Furthermore these children belonged to other cultures, they believed in other gods. How would you like it if you were some kid in Jericho, praying to baal everyday, and suddenly the walls fell and you were murdered by an Israelite. Not only do you have to endure the pain of death but now you must spend eternity with the God who ORDERED YOUR DEATH. God is the one who sent them out on these missions remember, imagine being killed only to spend an eternity with your killer.

"I don't want to see you in eternal fire."

That's good because you won't. There's no such place, its a fairy-tale and its embarrassing to see people in the 21st century still believing in such things.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 2 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Again I have to ask where you get this idea that Satan is the evil one.

It wasn't Satan that flooded the world, killing babies, puppies, children and animals, it was God. It wasn't Satan or even man that cursed creation after the Fall, it was God. It wasn't Satan that killed the first born children of Egypt, it was God. It isn't Satan that's going to slaughter billions in outpourings of wrath and destruction before damning most of the world to eternal torment, that's God.

Satan's worst sin was what? Wanting to be God right? I'm glad he got over that, otherwise he might have become a real asshole.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 2 years ago from back in the lab again Author

You have my email address Lybrah, if you want to talk only to me you are quite welcome to strike up a private discussion. If you want to comment here it's going to be open to others joining the discussion.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 2 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Thanks Austinstar :D

You could always just paraphrase.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

As always, Titen-Sxull, keep up the good words. You are really good at it.

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