How The Great Accomplishments Of Islam Saved Europe

 

Note: I have willingly CENSORED comments against SirDent that may have been taken as personal attacks, in order to assuade those who think that I have a personal vendetta against a man who not only do I not know, but don't even know what his real name is! However, I will not back down on my stand that those evil words must be taken down by HubPages now!

I have been railing against a certain Hubber who CENSORED hides behind the cryptic nickname SirDent and his CENSORED and completely CENSORED attacks against Islam. Although I was born a Roman Catholic and do not count myself as an adherent of any specific theology, I profoundly respect all major religions and will not stand idly by while he savages Islam and its Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as:

"a liar, a murderer, a pedophile and a thief. He is a false prophet who should have been killed..."

The latest jewel to issue from his CENSORED blaspheming pen is:

"I am still waiting for the pluses from the side of Islam. What is good about them? What have they cointributed (sic) to society as a whole?"

Allow me to educate you and other fundamentalist Christian intolerant CENSORED of your ilk, SirDent. After all, somebody has to, or you will live in CENSORED for the rest of your CENSORED lives:

At a time when SirDent's ancestors and mine were living like filthy beasts in the core of the Dark Ages still blindly groping towards feudalism, Islam managed a vast empire with a common language and without any internal political boundaries which stretched from the French to the Pakistani border. While most Europeans of the age were scratching a hard-scrabble existence from dirt, Islam was living Muhammad's (PBUH) words that "the ink of scholars is more precious than the blood of martyrs," and exalting the study of theology, philosophy, arts and sciences.

Arabic numerals replaced the awkward Roman numerals and introduced for the first time the concept of zero. Chinese paper making technology was imported, allowing for the creation of enormous public and private libraries. Countless Sanskrit, Roman and Greek texts were translated and copied to support massive high-level educational efforts throughout the empire: The Hellenic classics which allowed the Renaissance to occur arrived in Europe in Arabic translation. Islamic physicians are largely responsible for what we know as modern medicine as they standardized and harmonized Hellenic, Hindu and Persian medical procedures. Indeed, Islam created the basis for the scientific method where observation and experimentation forms the core of science, rather than conjecture and imagination.

Less than a century after the death of Muhammad (PBUH), free public hospitals began to spring up throughout the empire. Surprisingly modern mental hospitals were present in the Islamic world as early as the 8th century. In the thirteenth century Islamic physician Ibn al-Nafis accurately described the function of the heart and circulatory system, a development which did not occur in Christian Europe until William Harvey published his "discovery" four centuries later. More than eight centuries before Joseph Lister, Islamic physician Abu Bakr al-Razi was using antiseptics to clean wounds, comprehending the connection between bacteria and infection. A century before that, Al-Hasan wrote a study on optics that could easily serve as a college textbook today, and supplanted the previous belief that the eye shot out an invisible ray which captured the image of an object and dragged it back to the soul. Al-Hasan's work was the definitive optics text until Johannes Kepler's work half a millennia later.

Every time we fill up the fuel tank in our cars, we have Islamic scientists to thank, as they invented the forging of steel to make our cars and the distillation of petroleum to run them. Islam refined and corrected Hellenic algebra and developed trigonometry which together form the basis for all physical mathematics. The cupolas of Christian churches including St. Peter's Basilica owe the basics of their architecture to Islamic science.

Muslim scientists corrected and accumulated massive amounts of astronomical data, constructed humanity's first observatory, and invented the astrolabe, which was an invaluable navigation, surveying, and timekeeping tool for well over a thousand years. Islamic mapmakers standardized latitude and longitude so that their maps before 1000 AD were far more accurate than the ones Columbus used. Islamic mathematician Omar Khayyam developed a calendar so exact that more than five centuries later it was off by only one day.

Without Islam, European civilization might have been lost in that horrible age of savagery between the fall of the Roman Empire and the flowering of the Renaissance. Each and every person of European descent, whether they be Christian, Muslim, or atheist, owes Islam a profound debt of gratitude.

Now, SirDent, go take your CENSORED out of HubPages and back to the CENSORED rally where you belong. You CENSORED me, and I will keep up the pressure to ensure that HubPages erase your CENSORED affront to Islam as the CENSORED outrage that it is.

 

More by this Author


Comments 82 comments

Prophecy Teacher profile image

Prophecy Teacher 8 years ago from Dallas Texas

Well ok. If I may, I'd like to ask the obvious question??? So what happened? Islam sits at the bottom of almost every measure of progress and enlightenment except oil. Whatever would have become of them if it weren't for oil?? Their people starve, have the lowest literacy rates, are among the poorest countries and have the most radical fringe of any religion in the world. One would dare say even if you combined them all.

I am not against Islam - but I am for balance. And though you certainly have it our for Mr Dent - it does not appear to me that your indignation is righteous. It glaringly looks personal. My daddy used to tell me - if you argue with a fool - it's hard to tell who the fool really is.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 8 years ago from Toronto Author

Yikes, dude! With all due respect, but do you ever come out of the cloistered solitude of your Fundamentalist church and check out the world? Singapore has the highest per capita GDP in the world after Luxembourg and Norway! Saudi Arabia, Malaysia and Turkey are among the most advanced, industrialized, well-educated, and wealthy nations in the world. Three of those four have little if any significant petroleum reserves, so much for the "Arab Oil Sheik" stereotype!

Have you ever set foot in Dubai, which probably has more money per square foot than Fifth Avenue, Rodeo Drive and The Ginza District combined? I have, and I can assure you that the locals can easily buy any American state in cash and use it as the parking lot for their Bentleys and Ferraris.

Remember, the radical fringe of Islam has done absolutely nothing in the past half century that can even remotely compare with the massive genocidal actions of Christian Yugoslavs against their own Muslim citizens right in the heart of Europe since 1991.

I am not trying to argue with a fool, although it is clear that SirDent is the textbook description of one. I am a prominent blogger on HubPages. I will not be associated with a site that allows racial hatred to prosper on its pages. Those evil words of SirDent's will be erased. Then SirDent can write whatever he wants, as long as he does not spit his hateful venom on Islam or any other group of people. He can go on to promote his Christianity in any way he sees fit, but not by defaming other major religions through sheer, spiteful ignorance.


CJStone profile image

CJStone 8 years ago from Whitstable, UK

Hello Hal, another wonderful hub. I have only one disagreement with it, that you want SirDent's hub taken down. Personally I think the contrast between his clear lack of education, and your well-informed, well--balanced, well-thought-out point-of view is a lesson in itself.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 8 years ago from Toronto Author

Hi, CJ. I certainly don't want SirDent's Hub taken down. I insist, however, that those phrases where he insults Mohammed (PBUH) and by extension more than one billion people on Earth should be erased: Just as SirDent himself quietly took down the famous Danish Cartoon he had featured on that Hub when he first posted it. SirDent is a coward, a bigot, and a xenophobic imbecile, but he has the right of free speech, as long as it does not cross the line into hate speech.


CJStone profile image

CJStone 8 years ago from Whitstable, UK

Prophecy Teacher, you are entitled to your view of course, but currently it is the world's most powerful nation which habitually employs torture, imprisonment without trial, and the indiscriminate use of force. So who, exactly "sits at the bottom of almost every measure of progress and enlightenment"? Who allows the world to starve while it spends more and more on arms in order to intimidate the rest of the world?


jreuter profile image

jreuter 8 years ago from Portland, Oregon

wow hal, you lost me at "coward, bigot and xenophobic imbecile." And all this from one hub? You talk a nice game, sprinkled with tolerance and religious acceptance, but the glaring insults for a man you don't even know reveal an ugly truth: This hub is a personal attack. Seriously, if you're so concerned with spreading love and intellectualism throughout the hub world, avoid the verbal abuse. And just for thought, what if Muhammad WAS a pedophile? I'm not saying he was, but it's a possibility. If truth is insulting to people, well, then that's too bad. I don't necessarily like the fact that King David was an adulterer, or that Moses was a murderer, but I'm not going to deny these facts becasue it infringes on my comfort level. No human is free from sin, that's one component of sirdent's hub that does possess substance and meaning. I hardly think that labeling a man who has been dead for over one thousand years "a murderer" qualifies as hate speech. But my point is this, personal insults stink, and should be avoided, as not only do they hurt others, but reveal anger and weakness. But hey, I like the history aspect of this hub.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 8 years ago from Toronto Author

The question of whether Muhammad (PBUH) was a pedophile has been discussed by far more learned scholars than any of us, and it has been conclusively determined that was a lie. As were the allegations that he was "a liar, a murderer, and a thief... a false prophet who should have been killed..." There is no justification for any of these statements. They are just as much hate speech as the bloggers who dispute the Holocaust or call for racial cleansing of African-Americans. Insulting the prophet of a religion insults each and every member of that faith. Anyone sharing these views is a "coward, bigot and xenophobic imbecile" plus any other choice epithets that I can think of to throw their way. People of good will must have the courage to take on bigotry, prejudice and injustice without sweeping it under the rug by naively claiming the freedom of speech of the Wild Wild Web. In previous comments on my original Hub I have told SirDent that I harbor no ill will towards him and he's invited to my place for a BBQ and a beer. But those words have to be erased from HubPages. That's my stand, and I'm not budging from it by one iota. 


jreuter profile image

jreuter 8 years ago from Portland, Oregon

Well, hopefully just one beer, a fist fight might break out. ( ;

I have to point out though, that there really isn't any way to conclusively prove that someone wasn't a liar. History just doesn't give us those details, and as far as Muhammad being a false prophet, well, that belongs more in the realm of religion than history, and the truth concerning that is a subjective one, unprovable in the scholarly realm. But fair enough, I'll stop nitpicking.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 8 years ago from Toronto Author

You're more than welcome to nitpick. It is a free society and all of us have the right to say whatever is on our minds as long as it is not destructive and discriminatory against other people, as SirDent has done. I have just changed the Hub to eliminate the insults towards SirDent personally, and placed a note at the top to that effect. I don't want this cause to take on the form of a vendetta as it is not. I am forced by my conscience to take up the defense of those whose rights are violated. It's a character trait I've had for my entire life and I'm not about to change it now, even if I thought it was not noble. Unfortunately I am not able to edit out the comments, so if HubPages wishes to enable me to do that, I will equally edit out those statements.


SweetiePie profile image

SweetiePie 8 years ago from Southern California, USA

Whereas I can see you have issues with Sirdent's hub, I must say he is completely within his rights not to reveal his name online.  His not using his real name has nothing to do with his recent hub and he is not the only person here at Hubpages who does not use their real name. I will use my real picture, but per the request of my family I will not publish my name online.  We even had a thread recently on Hubpages about why some of us do not feel comfortable revealing our names online.  So it is one thing to object to the things someone writes, but none of us have any right to demand or even expect someone to publish their real name on the Internet. 


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 8 years ago from Toronto Author

The case I make about SirDent not revealing his name is primarily to counter the charges that I have something personal against him. How can I when I have no clue who he is? I object and will continue to object strenuously to his attacks against Islam, not about who or what he is or isn't.


SweetiePie profile image

SweetiePie 8 years ago from Southern California, USA

I never thought you had anything personal against him. I was just curious why even mention this about him in the first place. However, everyone can do as they wish.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 8 years ago from Toronto Author

I do find it difficult to understand why you cannot see that SirDent's accusations against the Prophet of over one billion people represent hate speech in the fullest extent of its description. As I stated earlier "they are just as much hate speech as the bloggers who dispute the Holocaust or call for racial cleansing of African-Americans." You are as prominent a Hub author as I am. Do you feel comfortable sharing your work on a site which is used by an individual to spread lies, hatred and intolerance without any bounds of decency? I don't.


xrated profile image

xrated 8 years ago

I have soething to say very similar to Hal Licino.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Hal - Lot's of good information here. For a time I worked in the media dept of a huge Saudi oil company, where there was also a standing exhibition of Islamic history. Should anyone doubt you, I'm happy to confirm the list of achievements you describe. However, I answered SirD's question "I am still waiting for the pluses from the side of Islam. What is good about them? What have they cointributed (sic) to society as a whole?" rather differently, by pointing out that Islam's core contribution is the Five Pillars of the faith. Islam, like Christianity, is about the individual's relationship with God. I think the problem with calling the astrolabe Islamic is that you then have to call the steam engine Christian. And, if you wish, instead of glorifying a civilisation, to revile it, you can then cite 9/11 and/or former Yugoslavia, depending on your personal persuasion. We've all seen the road that that leads us.

I think societies work best when religion, though organised, remains personal and disestablished, and due credit for achievement given to the genius (or institution) that achieved.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 8 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks xrated, I appreciate the support!

Paraglider, I definitely agree with all your points, especially the ones about the Five Pillars which is one of the major contributions to theological development in human history. My Hub was designed to focus on the strictly scientific developments to counter "Certain People's" (see how deftly I avoided a CENSURED?) ignorance that all Muslims live in mud huts with their sheep. Although it is fundamentally incorrect to state that a certain religion was responsible for this or that scientific discovery, it is important to note to the products of deficient educational systems whose idea of studying history is to watch 10,000 BC, that Islamic scientists have brought great light, wisdom and knowledge to our world.


WeddingConsultant profile image

WeddingConsultant 8 years ago from DC Metro Area

And on a different note, this hub scores very high for the keyword "CENSORED"... lol


Prophecy Teacher profile image

Prophecy Teacher 8 years ago from Dallas Texas

Dubai??? You mean that cute little city with the 50 tall buildings and the sailboat hotel - and the goofy Island resort. Sounds like Vegas, Wow! But seriously, you point out a state bigger than Luxembourg??? Isn't Luxembourg in Idaho somewhere?

And in the 3 out of 4 countries you mentioned - 3 are SECULAR DEMOCRACIES - isn't that a Western Christian concept, err uh. And the 4th of course IS THE ONE with all the oil.

You throw facts around as if they're Malt-O-Meal. But I like to give credit where crdit is due - you are a very good hubber when it partains to Computers. Of that, there can be no doubt and your bragging for it is well deserved.

However, on this other matter, we're not really talking about right and wrong are we?? We're really talking about objective truth. So objectively consider these facts:

The combined annual GDP of the 57 Muslim countries remains under $2 trillion. America, just by herself, produces goods and services worth $10.4 trillion; China $5.7 trillion, Japan $3.5 trillion and Germany $2.1 trillion. Even India’s GDP is estimated at over $3 trillion.

Oh by the way - that includes all the oil - if we were to take that out - I would blush for your argument. Germany alone out produces the entire Muslim world. And she was bombed back to the stone ages just 50 years ago.

Oil rich Saudi Arabia, U.A.E., Kuwait and Qatar collectively produce goods and services (mostly oil) worth $430 billion; Netherlands alone has a higher annual GDP while Buddhist Thailand produces goods and services worth $429 billion.

Muslims are 22 percent of the world population and produce less than five percent of global GDP. Even more worrying is that the Muslim countries’ GDP as a percent of the global GDP is going down over time. The Arabs, it seems, are particularly worse off. According to the United Nations’ Arab Development Report: “Half of Arab women cannot read; One in five Arabs live on less than $2 per day; Only 1 percent of the Arab population has a personal computer, and only half of 1 percent use the Internet; Fifteen percent of the Arab workforce is unemployed, and this number could double by 2010; The average growth rate of the per capita income during the preceding 20 years in the Arab world was only one-half of 1 percent per annum, worse than anywhere but sub-Saharan Africa.”

The planet’s poorest countries include Ethiopia, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, Cambodia, Somalia, Nigeria, Pakistan and Mozambique. At least six of the poorest of the poor are countries with a Muslim majority.

Conclusion: Muslims of the world are among the poorest of the poor.

Fifty-seven Muslim majority countries have an average of ten universities each for a total of less than 600 universities for 1.4 billion people; India has 8,407 universities, the U.S. has 5,758. From within 1.4 billion Muslims Abdus Salam and Ahmed Zewail are the only two Muslim men who won a Nobel Prize in physics and chemistry (Salam pursued his scientific work in Italy and the UK, Zewail at California Institute of Technology). Dr Salam in his home country is not even considered a Muslim.

Over the past 105 years, 1.4 billion Muslims have produced eight Nobel Laureates while a mere 14 million Jews have produced 167 Nobel Laureates. Of the 1.4 billion Muslims less than 300,000 qualify as ’scientists’, and that converts to a ratio of 230 scientists per one million Muslims. The United States of America has 1.1 million scientists (4,099 per million); Japan has 700,000 (5,095 per million).

Fact: Of the 1.4 billion Muslims 800 million are illiterate (6 out of 10 Muslims cannot read). In Christendom, adult literacy rate stands at 78 percent.

Consider, for instance, that Muslims constitute 22 percent of world population with a 1 percent share of Nobel Prizes. Jews constitute 0.23 percent of world population with a 22 percent share of Nobel Prizes.

Now Hal, just in case you claim these are delusions from the - (what did you call it) - cloistered solitude of my Fundamentalist church - these facts were taken out off of a FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAMIC WEBSITE.

Their conclusion?? Muslims need to accept responsibility for their own shortcomings. They do not say it is because of their religous concepts (Which I believe it is) but rather they said it was because Muslims want to blame it on everything else.

Sound familiar?


Prophecy Teacher profile image

Prophecy Teacher 8 years ago from Dallas Texas

Now that said, Hal. The West has it's shortcomings as well. But I and many others do not blame them on Islam. My Prophet Jesus, is blasphemed all the time. Day after day, in all the presses of the world and in many mosques, and by many zealous believers of numerous other religions such as yourself. Never the less, I believe in following Jesus' example and taking the abuse - just as he did. Jesus stood before His accusers mute. He gave us the example to let them strike us 500 times if they want to. It - their anger - in His words - is what condemns them and justifies us.

I believe you have the right to say whatever you will. Even blaspheme - not hat you have - just a figure of speech. Your blaspheme will not pollute me. Nor will it change my dietary habits or the channels I watch. The God I serve and the Gods others serve - if in fact they are real - surely are able to defend themselves - and if not - well, that's all I'm going to say about that.


Prophecy Teacher profile image

Prophecy Teacher 8 years ago from Dallas Texas

Mr Stone - you seem intelligent - did you really mean this??????????

""Who allows the world to starve"""

ALLOWS?

By what measure do we owe the world anything? And if by some chance that measure could be found - it would most likely lie in our Constitution; which is based on Morality.

'The Constitution was written for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other kind of people.'

John Adams

So that begs the question sir - what were those Morals based on? And if by some chance one can wade through the clutter to find the answer - the answer is the reason for the bounty we have - seeing how nothing like the Constitution preceeded itself. Of course - our founders were overwhelmingly Christian. They read and believed the Bible; now that's a true fact - unless one wants to say that John Adams got his wisdom from arabic numerals, and maps.

And if that is true - and it is - that the Constitution is based on Christian Morality; then what we owe the world is our Christian "moral" heritage - and the freedoms we gained from believing it - ensconcing them both in the Constitution.

That is the higher debt we owe - and the root of all our blessings. However, to be fair, the West have left these roots - and now looks to only Democracy and freedom (only) as the foundation of our nation - but therein lies the problem. Having left the morals of the Constitution - as Adams says - we are left with secular views such as the "intimidation" you accurately pointed out. Defending not the Righteousness of our nation in it's spiritual heritage - but rather this bastardized religion of making the world safe for Democratic Capitalism.

See, I can blame my country too. But blame must be squarely placed in context. IMHO.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 8 years ago from Toronto Author

Prophecy Teacher: Thank you for acknowledging my unquestioned mastery in computer Hubbing. Now you may kneel and kiss my ring. :)

Luxembourg is actually a great place if you have a well padded bank account and a hankering for french fries with mayonnaise.

Actually, you may find that Gandhi's philosophy of non-resistance was inspired as much by his Muslim education as it was from his Hindu. So Christians certainly don't have a monopoly on taking blows silently.

As for your facts and figures I don't know if you get them off the sides of Corn Flakes boxes (as my Malt-O-Meal box seems to be more accurate), but I've written a new Hub at:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Why-I-Wish...

This is to answer the standard questions from people who are not aware of Islam's modern achievements and standards. In it, I debunk your points to show that Muslims are anything but retrograde, primitive sheepherders. Dude, time to trade in the Corn Flakes. Malt-O-Meal rules! :)


Prophecy Teacher profile image

Prophecy Teacher 8 years ago from Dallas Texas

ON THE NEW HUB YOU SAID:

""The Organization of the Islamic Conference has confirmed that the main 57 Islamic nations have a combined GDP of $7.74 trillion, very close to the USA's and a much higher per capita GDP than China or India""

But Hal, I did not quote the OIC for the figures. I quoted the MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRIES. Different fish. What you fail to mention in the above statement is that the OIC includes Russia (2 trillion) and several OTHER non-majority Muslim nations belonging to the OIC. This is where the other 3 trillion comes from - bringing your total to 7 tr. So the true total GDP for Muslim Majority nations COMBINED - INCLUDING OIL - is 2 trillion

(less than Germany - a country we bombed back into the stones ages just 60 years ago) - thus my conclusion and question - what's up with that?

I made a typing error by putting in 57 (which is the OIC number) but I said the Muslim countries - meaning to say Muslim Majority. Never the less the point is made - where Islam rules - the number is 2 trillion.


Prophecy Teacher profile image

Prophecy Teacher 8 years ago from Dallas Texas

Corn Flakes with that coffee sir???


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 8 years ago from Toronto Author

Nope, too busy eating your breakfast on the other Hub to want any more flakes! :)


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Guys, isn't this a bit pointless - are we judging the value of a religion by the wealth of its followers? Which prophet suggested that measure? Wealth generally comes from secularism or worldliness. When Christianity had political power, it presided over a rich elite and poor masses. Most religions do, if over-empowered politically.


Prophecy Teacher profile image

Prophecy Teacher 8 years ago from Dallas Texas

Paraglider - In numerous places in the Bible God says he will make a righteous nation great. The religion a nation follows does more than make the individual spiritual - but it collectively raises a nation of spiritual people. They are not living in isolation.

Hal began the HUB by pointing out the many varied accomplishments of Islam - and somehow tying them to the Salvation of Europe up out of the muck. (I didn't address that but I strongly disagree with it) What I did ask was - if his assertion was true - what happened to Islam?

Surely paraglider - what a nation believes either debases or exalts it. If that is so - by what do we measure with? True, economics is not the sole guide for sure - but that was the direction the conversation went. There are other barometers.

But economics is the foundation upon which all activity among peoples is made. A believer's gotta eat. Gnight


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

PT - I'm surprised how often Christians cite the Old Testament when it suits the point they wish to make. The OT, as we all know, can be used to support any view at all because it is such a mish-mash thematically. Jesus is said to have told us to pray for our daily bread, not for an estate and a pension. There was also something about considering lilies, no?


Chef Jeff profile image

Chef Jeff 8 years ago from Universe, Milky Way, Outer Arm, Sol, Earth, Western Hemisphere, North America, Illinois, Chicago.

When I lived in Spain I saw first hand the wonders of the old Islamic culture that once ruled that nation. Before them were the Romans, who also built a wondrous culture.  Before them the Carthaginian cities where Hannibal was born were also grand and awe inspiring. 

In modern times we often look back upon the past as if the folk who lived back then were ignorant fools, no matter which culture or continent they came from. The truth is - all we are, all we have today to brag about came from the blending of many cultures and the people of many lands. 

Yes, medicine and arithmetic were advanced by Islamic cultures, and yes, splendid and tremendous works of art and architecture were made.  The ancient cathedrals in Christian Europe owe as much to Muslim architects (and before them, Egyptian, Greek and Roman, along with others too numerous to name them all) as they do to devotion to God. 

As for Europeans dwelling like beasts, well, that is a relative thing.  Early Europe, Greece and Rome and the Etruscans, for example, lived in both luxury and squalor, depending upon in which level of society one found one's self.

The same can be said for the so-called Dark Ages.

As well the same can be said for the rising Islamic cultures of the 7th century and beyond to our modern times.  Some people and cultures lived in luxury while many more lived much less so. 

We have this strange and I believe false idea that just because Europe was in chaos politically that everyone lived in a pig sty.  Archeology has shown us that many of the palaces of Dark Age kings and princes were splendid little places. 

At the same time a peasant's hovel was also used to house his livestock.  A merchant's house in a city might be found somewhere in between.  Alfred the Great and Charlemagne were hardly shivering in hovels at the peak of their existence.    

I do know that Muslim scholars in Spain called for religious tolerance and that in Spain, for many decades, if not centuries after the conquest of most of Spain by the Muslims, peace was the norm between Christians and Muslims and Jews alike. 

If in today's world the ancient European crusades, themselves imbued with religious intolerance and hatred, seem to have been co-opted in our times by Islamic fanatics, let us never forget that in the name of Christ and the Christian God hundreds if not thousands of crimes have been committed. 

How many millions died in wars solely between Christians of one sect or another?  Catholics waged war against heretics and Protestants waged war against Catholics. 

How many followers of Pelagius do you find living today?  How many Albigensians (Cathars) were left after the 20 year war waged by the Catholic authorities between 1209 and 1229 A.D.?   How many died in the various inquisitions held by the Church against suspected heretics? 

How many Protestants died in wars between the various Protestant groups, or how many were displaced as were the Protestants in France?

We speak of the Spanish Inquisition but who remembers that in Germany (by which I mean the German states that make up modern-day Germany) many times more the number killed in Spain were tortured and slowly put to death. 

In truth I find very little difference between the acts of Islamic terrorists and Christian terrorists in this century as well as in the past. 

And also in truth I find no difference whatsoever between religious fanatics of any kind, be they Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu, or indeed any other religion that believes that it, and only it, represents God. 

I am a Christian but far be it from me to judge and condemn others who seek God.  I have faith that my belief is a path to God, but I can’t tell you that I have 100% proof, evidence, or even know absolutely that my beliefs are the one and only, genuine version of the truth.  I can only say that I have faith, which means I believe without knowing if I am right or wrong.


Prophecy Teacher profile image

Prophecy Teacher 8 years ago from Dallas Texas

Paraglider, I quoted from Proverbs, a book of wisdom for all nations and all generations.

Proverbs 14:34 : "Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people."

to any people. (Pretty inclusive)

Perhaps it's your misunderstanding of it that makes you so surprised. To say the Old Testament is a mish mash thematically - underscores this point - at least as far as themes are concerned. There is only one theme to the entire testament. God reigns in the affairs of man and He chooses to do it any way He wants. He chooses to hate sin, provides a nation as an example and brings salvation to the world through that nation and it's examples.

Everything else is example. Seems simple enough to me. Are am I missing something?


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 8 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

I recognise the Book of Proverbs quotation, but I'll stand by 'mish-mash' A theme can be extracted retrospectively from the Old Testament by Christians, Muslims or Jews, to justify their own belief system. But in each case that requires decisions on what to ignore (as contradictory) as well as what to include.


Julaha profile image

Julaha 7 years ago from India

Two points.

First.

When you count Singapore among the Muslim nations, you probably mean either Malaysia or Indonesia. (You Americans are so poor in your geography :-) ). Singapore is a secular state and has nothing to do with Islam or Muslim culture.

Second, about Gandhi.

As far as I know, and I am from the same part of the world where Gandhi was born, Gujarat, his education was in a Hindu and Jain milieu. He migrated to London at the age of eighteen or so where he came into contact with Christianity. He then had a long stint in South Africa where he studied Tolstoy and Ruskin.

There was no Muslim education in his case. Of course India is a multi-clutural country and all religions prosper here, they did at least, until the British used religions as a weapon to divide and rule. And the British were Christians. The consequences of their policy of religious meddling was the division of India at the time of independence and the pernennial sore point that this has created for the world. We are still paying the price for this in the form of the Taliban.

The debate is enternaining, but it would be best if Gandhi were kept out of it.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Julaha, unfortunately I have to disagree with both your points. Sure, Singapore is officially a secular state, but the population statistics clearly show that only 14% of its population states it has "No Religion" while the majority of the rest of the population is either Buddhist or Islamic. As per Gandhi, he clearly stated that when he attended worship services, it was from both Muslim and Hindu texts. I see no reason to exclude Gandhi from this discourse as he was known as the Mahatma by all India, Muslim and Hindu alike.


issues veritas 7 years ago

Hal,

I am not defending Sir Dent in any way, my comment is that Islam or anything else is not above criticism. There have been many harsh and unintelligent comments on President Bush. I don't have a problem with that if they are supported by facts and not just politically enraged zealots.

Muslim radicals, taunting the Islamic religion are engaging in deadly acts and threats around the world. The fundamentalists of that religion do little or nothing about condemning these radicals. One has to then associate these deadly acts as a part of the Islamic Religion.

Mohammad didn't seem to have had any prophetic powers, considering that he couldn't even foresee that his successors would be in a deadly battle with each other because he didn't choose a successor.

My point is that if you can 'dis' with impunity the President of the United States, then why is Islam out of bounds. As long as you make your statements objectively and with supporting facts, there should not be any hands off.

The fact, that religions fought over which one should be the only religion, indicates that there is no divine inspiration that leads to the true religion. The Protestants and the Catholics in Ireland involved a long and bloody battle based on religion. The same is true of the different factions of Muslims.

When religion advocates or doesn't condemn the use of deadly force in their religion, then one has to question it.

How peaceful would the world be today, if there were no fighting and killing based on religious issues?

One could re-title this hub, how Islam and its religious radicals are continuing threats to attaining world peace.

Now you can censor my comments, you have my consent.


Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz 7 years ago from The Ozarks

Issues Veritas, do you really believe that most of the wars fought in the past, or those currently being waged, are motivated by religious doctrine? Show me an armed conflict and I will show you a conflict of interest. Theology has very little to do with it, except as a pretext.


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

Aya, I think Issues understands this, and what they meant is that general populace was tricked into supporting and fighting those wars by religious propaganda....


Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz 7 years ago from The Ozarks

Misha, okay. Maybe. But this assumes the general populace ARE motivated by theology. Somehow, I doubt that, too.


issues veritas 7 years ago

Misha

You got it.

It would be helpful for the religious leaders to separate their religion from the acts of the radicals.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I'm just running out for some errands but I'll be back soon and I'll plunge into this debate. Sounds like fun! :)


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

Come on Aya, there was probably no war that religion was not a factor. Even highly "politically correct" last American war is being fought against "evil muslim terrorists"!


issues veritas 7 years ago

Misha,

Because of your personal experience in the USSR and Russia.

Would you say that the breakup of the USSR allowed battles over religion to flourish, for example Bosnia.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect that China and the USSR were anti religion. In the areas under there control religion went underground or it was harshly dealt with by them.

The last two or three decades saw the rise of religious conflicts in the world. Sadam also had kept a lid on religious conflicts by putting his choice as the only one in Iraq and he dealt harshly with any challenge to them.

I am not judging, just observing what happened. I would like to know what wars or terrorism in the last 20 years didn't have a religious basis to it.

Thanks (spase'e-ba)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I will reply fully in the morning! Nitey nite!


Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz 7 years ago from The Ozarks

Misha, your write: "Come on Aya, there was probably no war that religion was not a factor. Even highly "politically correct" last American war is being fought against "evil muslim terrorists"!"

Right. And how many people actually believed any of the pretexts that were given for that war? WMD? 9/11? They were all completely made up. Iraq had nothing to do with it. Saddam was a secularist. If anything, what I saw was prejudice against all speakers of Arabic, of whatever faith.

Look, every culture tends to include a dominant religion. When Empires spread, they spread their language, culture and religion. So many people speak Arabic today, not because of Mohammad, but because of the wars of conquest that his successors embarked on.

When Rome was a world power, would you say their expansion was fueled by a desire to convert people to the worship of Jupiter? I seriously doubt that. Not even the plebeians believed it.


issues veritas 7 years ago

Hal

On your way to Rome, you passed right by the Crusades.


Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz 7 years ago from The Ozarks

Issues Veritas, I'm confused. The crusades happened much later.


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

LOL Hal, I guess I did not make myself clear enough. I did not say that religions are the cause of wars. I am pretty much sure all wars are about some kind of property. What I was saying is religions are almost always used as propaganda tool to make masses support the war. :)

Issues, you asked so many questions I need some time to put together an answer for you, ok? :)


issues veritas 7 years ago

Aya

Hal was going back in time to the Roman Civilization and going back that far he passed the Crusades. His example was not as relevant in the modern world when compared with the Crusades.

Misha

Thanks

Hal,

My contention is that regardless of the underlying reason for war and terrorism in the world, the majority of them are being played under the color of "Religious" reasons. This included way back when four countries divided up the world as their religious domain. The Catholic Church while outwardly is the icon of religion is run like a big corporation or a dictatorship government. One could say that their quest is for power and not God.

Muslims are like Catholics that have two Jesus es, the one that took over Islam when Mohammad died and the other one that many of the Muslims think should have taken over. In any case, these Muslims kill other Muslims and Muslim radicals kill Infidels. That is the bulk of the wars and terrorism act in the world today. While Jihad is the color of a religious quest, it doesn't mean that the people running the Jihad don't have non religious goals.

For over forty years, the Middle East has been consumed with killing over religious differences. Religion was an impediment to the USSR and China in ruling their governments.

Today and for the last twenty years what was the cause of the most violent deaths in the world. Religion or Non Religion?


jxb7076 profile image

jxb7076 7 years ago from United States of America

I am going to go out a limb here and say that everyone makes very strong argumentative points - and everyone is correct relative to their respective viewpoints, and personal opinions on the subject - as it relates to the facts presented. However, I am sure we can all agree that religion, religious institutions, religious philosophy, etc., are all man-made entities and are therefore, subject to human shortcomings. All religions and their respective representatives have engaged in atrocities against other humans over the ages and therefore none have reached, or will they ever reach the utopia of absolute brotherhood towards one another. I am not going to present historical data to support my viewpoint as I am certain we can all agree that humans are basically motivated by self, group, or institutional interests, whether they represent themselves or are members of a group, organization, country, or nation.

Every society, regardless of their religious beliefs functions from a Consequentialist, or utilitarianism viewpoint which suggests that any action is morally right if - and only if - it produces the ultimate good for all people affected by the action. With this in mind, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, etc, functions from this philosophical viewpoint. The unfortunate result often times is negative and does not benefit the respective society as a whole.

I personally respect and appreciate each viewpoint presented in this excellent hub and I encourage the dialog however, given human history in regards to who contributed what I can both defend every group while at the same time understanding their tendencies for exclusivism.

...just wanted to offer my two cents worth! I am going back to my corner now!


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

Aya, sorry I missed your comment.

I don't know about the place where you live, but here in DC area the majority of Americans I talked to at the time DID believe it even though it was an obvious propaganda. They were scared and wanted out ASAP - and this was the seemingly simple solution, and they wanted to believe it. People often behave like this, it is not something US-specific I think.

Issues, I am writing a response, should be out any time :)


issues veritas 7 years ago

Misha

Maybe you should make it a hub.


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

Nah, don't feel like that :)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

BTW, guys, please note that several comments were directed at me when it was others writing the comments. See above for where the confusion occurred.

issues veritas: Believe me, I have absolutely no desire to CENSOR anyone. I CENSORED the comments in my Hub towards Sir Dent under the gentle (cattle) prodding of the Administration around here. It's not generally my modus operandi. :)

I've just written a Hub which pretty well sums up my opinion on the increasingly common practice of publicly berating religious figures:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/How-Seth-M...

but in answer to your specific questions, much greater and fare more scholarly minds than mine have tackled the details of Muhammad's (PBUH) divinity or lack thereof. That is not in any way the intent of my Hub. It is to confront first degree malicious intent in offending one billion plus people.

Personally I believe that Mormonism is based on extreme fallacy, but I have not written a Hub attacking Joseph Smith as a deluded, plagiarizing fictionalist, although there is a significant body of research which points to that conclusion. Why? Because there are countless millions of Mormons who believe that the Book of Mormon is a sacred text and thus it serves as their own personal vector to divinity. Any vector to divinity recognized by millions HAS TO BE CONSIDERED A VALID TEXT OF A VALID RELIGION. Whether it is the rantings of a Joseph Smith, the self-serving egomania of a Henry VIII (Anglicanism), or the incoherence of a Charles Taze Russell (Jehovah's Witnesses). I even will go as far as giving a free pass to Rastafarian Marcus Garvey, not on the inherent truths in his ganja-fueled folly, but only on the strength of the passion of his adherents. BTW, note that I will definitely stop short of L. Ron Hubbard, who did not found a religion but a Ponzi scheme which Madoff would admire.

We can find equal room to chastise Islam as Christianity, Jewry, etc. What about the Christian terrorism of the Indian National Liberation Front of Tripura, Uganda's Lord's Resistance Army, or the Irish Republican Army? I find myself in agreement with jxb7076: Virtually every major religion at one time or another has promoted "the use of deadly force." That's the subject of debates since time immemorial. It has never been settled so far in human history and it's unlikely to be settled here.

Aya Katz: It is effectively impossible to be able to separate the actions of a state, secular or not, from the impetus of its predominant theology. Are Israel's recent actions in the Gaza Strip a religious or military reaction? Are they striking against Palestinians because of their Muslim beliefs or the rockets they keep spraying on the country? No matter what we do or how we frame the discussion, it's always going to be six of one and half dozen of the other.

Misha: Go for it! Write the Hub, dude! We all love your comments and I'm sure your Hub on this subject would be dynamite! :)

 


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

OK, finally coming to your questions Issues :)

Disclaimer - all below is my personal opinion that is based on my own observations and thoughts I believe to be true at the time of writing. I do not imply that different opinions are wrong, and I reserve the right to change my opinion at any time at my own discretion LOL

USSR collapse definitely allowed for the old conflicts to surface all over the Soviet-influenced area. While there was strong leadership, all those conflicts were hidden and suppressed. As you rightly noticed, one can see this same mechanism at work in Iraq now after Hussein regime collapse, and probably it will not take long for this to reveal itself all over American/European area of influence after it collapses too.

Yet I don't think that those conflicts have religion as their root cause. I do believe the root cause is elites fighting for property, in particular land rich with elements and trade routes, and religion in that sense is just a tool to make masses follow. Another role of religion seems to form one of the ways of division between those elite groups that compete for property, and in that sense religion can be named as the cause.

USSR and other countries of the soviet block seemed to abandon religion, at least on the surface. First it was stated in the founders books that religion is an opium for masses therefore it should have been eradicated, then church had too much property to let it live. So yes, Bolsheviks more or less destroyed the church as an institution and prohibited religion.

Yet pretty soon they figured out that there is no better way of controlling the masses, and formed their own sort of religion. Since Russia was a Christian country, all the ideology was pretty much built on Christian values. Pretty much the same ten commandments, pretty much the same promise of future at the cost of sacrificing the present, just the Heaven been called Communism and should have been located on the Earth. And mummy of Lenin playing the role of Jesus Christ, and a perpetually being re-written according to the current gensek views book of Communist Party history playing the role of bible...

I was pretty much shocked when some time after the move to USA I realized how similar it really is...

I am not writing a hub on this yet, I actually have more interesting ideas about soviet history to cover, and can't make myself to put them down, probably they are not ready yet :)


maven101 profile image

maven101 7 years ago from Northern Arizona

Misha....I am looking forward to your Hub on Russia. An insiders view during that turbulent time would be most revealing and interesting....

I agree, most wars are economic not religious....


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

IDK Maven, I want to write a few, they don't go out yet. So it will probably take a while :)


Nasheeds 7 years ago

nice hub.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks! :)


GeniusMuslim 7 years ago

How tolerant! I'm Muslim and I'm happy to find people that show respect. Thank you for this hub


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

You're very welcome and thank you for the comment and the support. I truly appreciate it.


Nia L 7 years ago

Thanks for this hub. It is really informative.


andy 7 years ago

andyblacklidge@hotmail.co.uk

-

email me please, I'd like to see some evidence to back up these claims in this hub here. or at least some sources.

im not calling you a liar I'd just like to know where you got this information since its all new to me.

yours,

Andy


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Nia: You're welcome.

andy: At a time when an internet was a trawling technique, I was studying comparative theology at various locations, including Drew University. Therefore, I urge you to go rediscover the pleasure of academic libraries. Or, you can take the shortcut and google all the names and events... either way... it's all there. Enjoy! :)


TMMason profile image

TMMason 7 years ago from FL.

1 any man who sleeps with a child of 9 years of age, as was I'asha at the time of consumation of their marriage, could rightly be defined as a pedophile in today's language today.

He, Mohhammud, married Iasha at 6, consumatted that marriage at 9.

Those are historical facts within Islam itself. Call that as you want.

2 Islam merely devoured all cultures and their advancements in the world. Then thew out anything in opposition to Islamic thinking of the times. the holders of the knowledge were maostly Cristian, jewish, Magian slaves.Who thought to continue some of their existence before Islam in any way they could.

That includes all literiture and knowledge, Art and philosophies.

Umar destroyed the Library of Alexandria and stated in regards to its contents. "... if it is not in the Qu'ran, It is of no value. And if it is within the Qu'ran. It is redundent".

That sums up Islam's view at that time, of the world around and outside of them.

3- Arabic numerals.

Are in fact Hindu numerals and the Zero also was a creation of the Hindu mathameticains.

(Hindustan would have ranked as one of the top 7 most advanced nations in the world at that time.

Then came Islam. Just the credo of the religion itself is telling. It is said in Islam. "Before Islam was nothing, blackness and ignorance. After Islam came the world and the light."

Yeah?... Right?...

Look at all the countries that have bee conquered and subjagated under Islam. All of them have fallen by the wayside of history as desolate and barren after Islam came to them.

And yes.

All of Islam's migration was through the Sword! Not peaceful prosylatizing, as is the liberal and Islamic myth.

What else were you wrong about?...

You stated something about the Astrolabe, a chinese invention, not Islamic.

And Astrology was pretty much if not perfected by the Chinese.

But that is not to say they, Islam, have not contributed in any way.

I would be a fool to think they did nothing. they did act as a, "STOREHOUSE", for knowledge.

Think about it?

Islam never expounded upon any of the Philosphies and writings, artworks, etc., they had in their possession.

Why Not?....

Show me the Muslim Leonardo? Or Aristotle?

You cannot.

Islam does not allow you to think outside of the box of "Submission".

Yes they did progress hospitals, and pharmacology, medical treatment, some mathematics.

But lets not go hog wild stealing other cultures accomplishments, to place under the banner of Islam.

And!

As far as the beautiful Islamic architechture.

Thats Persain,... man you cannot take credit for other cultures acheivments, even though today those cultures may be Islamic.

That is not the way it works.


TMMason profile image

TMMason 7 years ago from FL.

And yes.

I know Averroes' Prime mover was Allah, and his work reflected aristotle. But his attempt was limited just by the confines of the religion of Islam itself.

Unfortunatly. Islam literally means "Submission". That is submission to Allah's wil alone.

Nothing in contridiction to the words of Allah, could even be thought! Never mind placed from quill to parchment.

Contradiction to Allah's will cannot be allowed to exist. Per: the Qu'ran and the Prophet himself.

He, Averroes, wouldv'e been kiiled quicker than a free thinkin Christian in dark ages Europe.

And we know how fast they died.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Wow. Not much anti-Islamic wrath inside you is there? Too bad you have not a clue about what Islam truly means, as it is a religion of love and tolerance and brotherhood. All you see is your own hate. Of course submission to the will of God is foremost in Islam. Do you place yourself above God? It certainly does seem so, and thus justifies my characterization of you as a blind, bitter, hating fool. You are completely wrong about each and every one of your statements contradicting my historical facts. Prove them with examples of retract them. I have no patience for fools LIKE YOU who come onto my Hub and make statements that are patently false. Yes, the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) married Aisha bint Abu Bakr (check your spelling before you spout... it will make you seem a bit less of a fool) when she was very young, but it is also a historical fact that it was not only accepted social practice at the time, but the child continued to live in the house of Abu Bakr for several years before consummating the marriage, thus it was a wedding in name only! I truly pity fools LIKE YOU who only pick up dribs and drabs of information just enough to stoke their inhuman hatred instead of learning the truth and thus reaching comprehension. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I suggest you have that saying tattooed on your forehead!


TMMason profile image

TMMason 7 years ago from FL.

If your going to personally attack me on your comments. Then you should allow my response. But that is okay. Everyone will know you cannot keep up.

Go ahead keep deleting.

Its okay.


TMMason profile image

TMMason 7 years ago from FL.

As I said married her at 6, consummated the marraige at 9.

Shall I post the definition of what that is? And what that makes Mohhammud?

Oh. And your attitude speaks volumes about Islam.

I don't need to write about the lil baby Abu l' Qusim to prove my point.

You have done nicely in accomplishing that.

And any 6th grader knows Arabic numerals are Hindu in origin. You sound like the fool....

The Arabic numerals are the ten digits (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9). They are descended from the Hindu-Arabic numeral system developed by Indian mathematicians, by which a sequence of digits such as "975" is read as a whole number. The Indian numerals were adopted by the Persian mathematicians in India, and passed on to the Arabs further west. The numerals were modified in shape as they were passed along; developing their modern European shapes by the time they reached North Africa. From there they were transmitted to Europe in the Middle Ages. The use of Arabic numerals spread around the world through European trade, books and colonialism. Today they are the most common symbolic representation of numbers in the world.

As befitting their history, the digits (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,and 9) are also known as Hindu or Hindu-Arabic numerals. The reason that they are more commonly known as "Arabic numerals" in Europe and the Americas is that they were introduced to Europe in the tenth century from Arabs of North Africa. There they were (and still are) the digits used by western Arabs from Libya to Morocco.[1] Arabs, on the other hand, call the system "Hindu numerals",[2][3] referring to their origin in India. This is not to be confused with what the Arabs call the "Hindi numerals", namely the Eastern Arabic numerals (?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?) used in the Mideast, or any of the numerals currently used in India (e.g. Devanagari: ?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?.?).

As far as your religion meaning... love peace and brotherhood. that is only as far as the Umma is concerned. All other, ie: the entire, "Dar Al'Harb", (the abode of war)

US! we are not included in that peace, love, and brotherhhod.

ONLY MUSLIMS and potential converts need seek that.

Man. You need to stop the deception, ("Tiquiyya"-which is embedded within the Qu'ran itself))-

the deception your religion teaches you. And stand upon the truth of it.

If you can!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

DEWD! What kind of nonsense game are you playing? First of all this Hub is not moderated so your comments appear as you post them. Then, you post a comment that I'm deleting your comments when none appeared... and then 17 minutes later one that was supposed to come first? I don't like your game, my poor deluded friend. Keep it up and I WILL turn this hub into a moderated one and then you can keep typing to the ether. Get it? Good.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Dude... That's it. You're outta here. I don't know how you managed to change a comment that was posted for 13 minutes from 5 lines to a tome as the limit for editing is supposed to be 5 minutes but I have no patience for these stupid games. Hub is moderated and you're outta here. Go play with the dirty little punks out in the alley who hate everything. I'm done with you. End of conversation.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

TMMason. Look up END OF CONVERSATION in the dictionary. You want to play games where you back-edit comments after I've replied, which means you're the lowest form of online dreck. I don't engage in debates with imbeciles like you. So go play on the freeway. OVER. NEXT!


barcaboy 6 years ago

great hub Hal ,this comment is for all the people who are suggesting that this is a personal attack hub ,well its not .This is not an attack its just defence of his beliefs and culture ,and also this is pathetic how people are stating how Muhammed was a "paedophile" and moses was a "murderer" and so on..... i say this is pathetic as I am an educated muslim who listens to religious arguments and i had never heard an intelligent person stating that your prophet is a murdrer or a paedophile in their arguments .so to SirDent and any other muslim haters if you would like to start an argument about a religion first yo need to know something about it or even have the decency to argue with respect and dignity.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Thank you, and I appreciate your support and fully agree with your viewpoint.


mushy 6 years ago

Hey Hal I am with you on the point that every religious figure should be respected and we should not pass derogatory remarks on them, may be he Muhammad(PBUH) or Jesus Or Moses.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Agreed completely! :)


dongately profile image

dongately 6 years ago from Sana Clarita, California

Just as one wonders where the good Christians were during the holocost, particualry the Catholic church and the pope, one wonders were the good Muslims are while all the terrorists are beheading people and the extrmeists are stoning to death 12 year old rape victims.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

don, my dear friend, no religion has a monopoly on lunatics. Many mass murderers and other monsters have been devout Christians as well as every other religion. I humbly believe that no one of us can judge any other religion than our own based on the acts of extremists of any stripe. We have to look deep within the essence of that religion for the fundamental message it carries, and the core of Islam is truth, beauty, and love. That's also not to say that the core of other religions such as the Christian, Jewish, Hindu, etc. faiths have different core values, as they most certainly are based on very similar fundamental tenets, and all have their own incongrous elements (Leviticus, for example). But many people in the West tend to demonize Islam above other religions and that bias simply has no basis in theological facts. I was born a Catholic and now term myself as simply a Christian but I have profound respect for all other major religions including Islam. All major religions are valid vectors to peace and God.


arepblury profile image

arepblury 6 years ago from klang, selangor, malaysia

wonderful.... really respect u


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Thank you, that is very kind of you.


sukena@gmail.com profile image

sukena@gmail.com 6 years ago from Asia


Freya Cesare profile image

Freya Cesare 6 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

Thank you for writing this. Me,Myself, no longer had patient to answer such a hatred comments or hubs from other toward Islam because no matter what we said, they always able to find another point to threw their tantrum at us, so I let it go. Hhhhh... Not wise decision maybe but unless it save my heart stay in peace. I really appreciate you effort. Thank you.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

You're very welcome. Assalam O Alaikum, sister.


Freya Cesare profile image

Freya Cesare 6 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

Wa alaikum salam, Hal. :)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Say: Call upon Allah, or

Call upon Rahman

By whatever name you call

Upon Him, it is well

For to Him belong

The Most Beautiful Names.

-Qur’an 17:110

When will they learn that there is no God but God?

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working