Is Hell Real According to the Bible?

Is hell a real place?

  • No, I don't believe in the Bible and don't care what it says about hell.
  • No, hell is not scriptural. It is something thought up by man to frighten people into submission.
  • Yes, I believe in hell.
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Introduction

Have you ever wondered why some Christians seem so desperate to bring people over to their side of the fence? “Why can’t these Christians just leave me alone?” People seem to naturally want to be left alone to find their own way. I don’t know anyone who gets excited about seeing the door to door salespeople come over. “I don’t need a handy dandy vacuum cleaner.” No matter how great the deal is, we don’t want someone in our house pressuring us. “When I decide I need (and am ready to spend money on) a handy dandy vacuum cleaner I’ll go buy one.” And that’s just about carpet cleaning. Certainly this dynamic becomes exacerbated when you’re talking about something as personal as our faith. I think the most instinctive response to door to door witnessing is “I don’t know you. What gives you the right to come at me and pressure me with these questions?” And it’s true. In that situation no relationship has been built and no trust can be leveraged.

Why do some Christians do that? What could possibly be so urgent that they feel they have to harrass everyone around them with their beliefs? The answer is very simple--and uncomfortable. It’s not something we like to talk about at parties. It’s a reality that some might want to avoid thinking about altogether. Our culture wants inclusion, warmness, and just generally happy thoughts. If we are honest with ourselves, we want that too. And yet there’s something taught in scripture that forces us to leave our comfortable places and do things we would rather not do. In Matthew chapter 13, Jesus explains the big picture of what happened to this world. And he also explains what will happen when it’s all over. For God followers it’s a reality so chilling that, when we wrap our minds around it, we become motivated to leave our comfort zones and ask uncomfortable questions.

The Parable of the Weeds

“Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. But that night as everyone slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat. When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew. The farmer’s servants came and told him, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds!’
‘An enemy has done it!’, the farmer exclaimed.
‘Shall we pull out the weeds?’ they asked.
He replied, ‘No, you’ll hurt the wheat if you do. Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds and burn them and to put the wheat in the barn.’” (Matthew 13:24-29) NLT

The farmer planted good seed in his field. In Genesis, God put Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. The enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat. The serpent tempted Adam and Eve and sin entered the world. As Adam’s offspring developed into an entire civilization, sin was everywhere--just like weeds. In this parable, the weeds are those who rejected God’s love and offer of salvation. The wheat is those who accepted the gift. At the end of the harvest, the harvesters were to sort out the weeds and burn them and put the wheat in the barn. This is the part that creates the motivation for us to have uncomfortable conversations. When we read scripture, we discover that “burning the weeds” is not a metaphor. We discover that Jesus gave clear warnings about hell being a real place that should be avoided at all costs. Jesus Himself said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through me." According to scripture, there is only one way any of us can escape this place called hell, and it isn’t by being good. Faith in Jesus is the only possible answer.

Jesus' Perspective

When we read the gospels, its clear that Jesus believed in hell. In fact, Jesus had a lot to say about it. If Jesus is in fact the Son of God, then clearly His words on this matter should be taken seriously. For those who are not Christians and choose not to trust Jesus for your salvation, I think it's still important to understand what the Bible teaches so you understand the risk of rejecting Him. The passage below shows Jesus being much more direct about what happens to us after this life.

"“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy] angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left... Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels... And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:31-33, 41 ,46) NKJV

I've heard some Biblical scholars say that, at the end of this life, those who aren't saved simply cease to exist. In other words, there really isn't anything to fear for those who reject Jesus Christ. Jesus certainly did not teach that. In fact, a significant amount of Jesus' teaching was wrapped around a warning. From the beginning of His ministry, He repeatedly preached the need for repentance "for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." This implied that there were consequences for choosing not to repent. Eventually, Jesus began to be more clear about the nature of the consequences.

"But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22) NKJV

The passage below is even more clear that hell is a real destination to be feared.

"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—where ‘Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’" (Mark 9:43-44) NKJV

Consider for a moment how bad hell would have to be that it would be better to cut off your own hand than to end up there. This is incredibly strong speech. I can't really claim to know for sure what "their worm does not die" means, but it sure sounds bad. I believe what he's saying is that this fire does not consume. And, it never stops or dies down. It simply torments endlessly. And finally, Jesus gave another parable related to hell about a rich man who refused to help a beggar in need.

"There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’" (Luke 16:19-26) NKJV

This passage might be described as simply an allegory rather than a description of hell, except that it's clear from the previous passages discussed that Jesus clearly believed that hell was in fact a real place. This was not something he made up to prove a point. This is something he is warning us against in as many ways as He can.

Conclusion

On the surface we might cry foul at the narrowness of the path, but then God would remind us of the enormous sacrifice of love Jesus made at the cross. The only person who could have saved us did that, dying for our sin nailed to two pieces of wood. Narrowness was a result not of God’s obsessive nature but of the fact that there was actually only one way to save us. And Jesus headed straight down that path—out of love. But for those of us who have discarded the gift and ignored the sacrifice, hell is still a very real destination. Maybe this seems unfair or heartless. I certainly understand this perspective, with so many who choose not to follow Christianity around the world.

Still, I think there is confusion here. If the God of the Bible exists and the Biblical message is true then He is the only God. The Bible tells us this repeatedly. All others that are worshiped around the world are then only impotent imaginings created by humanity. In other words, the creation created gods to replace the one true God who loved us so much that He sent part of the Godhead (Jesus) to earth to die a painful death for us. Maybe you would say to a Creator God that it's unfair for Him to expect us to worship Him rather than the gods we made up. He shouldn't mind if we worship a God with characteristics unlike His and teachings that are completely unlike those He provided for us. You might want to tell God that you worship something else that is "God" to you, and that should be good enough for Him. And the one true God would say, "That's not me. You don't know me." Or you might want to tell God to kiss off and that you should be allowed to not worship Him with no fear of punishment. And yet this only seems reasonable from a selfish, prideful perspective. If you take a step back and assume for a minute that the Biblical account is true then you will see that, in that case, you are the loved creation and He is the Creator. As the Creator, authority belongs to Him. You are the servant and He is the Master, because He made you and He gets to decide your role. Only human pride would suggest otherwise. So even if you choose to reject Him and reject the Son He sacrificed for you, you are still accountable to Him and you have certainly earned whatever consequences your decision brings with it.

For those of you who are Christians, I think personal witnessing outside of a developed relationship is something we should move away from. It gives the world an opportunity to label us, become irritated at our gall, and learn to despise the message we bring even more. Our goal is to bring people toward the saving love of Jesus, not push them away from it. But at the end of the day, we have a responsibility to try to reach those who are in danger. We are the firemen who rush into burning buildings to save one or two at a time. We go to foreign countries where the Bible is despised and where violence could await us. We have uncomfortable conversations with people who may ridicule or despise us. Why do we do that? Out of love. Can they feel the love in that moment? No, probably not. But it’s there all the same.

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45 comments

davidkaluge profile image

davidkaluge 5 years ago

What happens to those Christains that don't believe in hell? I only wish God had made all these easier even for Christains. Everything you teach is as you have faith and believe it to be true. It is not otherwise because you are not certain.


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 5 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

Hi, David. Believing in hell is not really a requirement for salvation. In my hub on how to be saved according to the Bible, I showed that the requirements for salvation are belief, repentance, and confessing your faith verbally. The goal is not to believe all the right things. The goal is a saving relationship with God. This is what I believe the Bible teaches. I know that there certainly are differences of opinion and I do my best to engage in dialog to work through those issues as much as possible. I know there is plenty for me to learn as well, and I'm happy to admit it when I've obviously misunderstood something I've read.

Thanks for stopping by!


hemustincrease 5 years ago

Thanks for this hub. And for the graciousness with which you present the truth. The reality of hell never fails to highlight Gods common grace in the present age. Knowing that hell is a complete separation from God only goes to reveal His mercy towards those who finally reject Him today. Today they have sunshine, rain, smiling faces, friends and family etc. In hell, totally separated from the God they rejected, there will not be so much as one smiling face or one warm embrace, or one pleasing or happy moment. Those who suggest hell is not real and that all will go to heaven, cannot understand Gods justice. And yet it is because He is just, that we can be forgiven. 1 John 1:9 I also agree that pinning Bible verses to rocks and throwing them at unbelievers does not show the love of Christ too well. :)


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 5 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

Thanks! Great comments (as usual). I love the "pinning Bible verses to rocks" thing. That's awesome. :) I must say that I would much rather have hell not exist. I don't really like that part of our Biblical reality. Or maybe God could drop in on each of us in person and say "Hi! I'm God. I made you and desire to free you from your sin. I love you and desire a better life for you. Please do as I say." As humans, none of us want those around us to suffer. And yet I know that God is both a just God and a loving God, even if it doesn't always make sense to my little brain. He is the Creator, we are the creation. He is the Great and Magnificent One, we are so finite. He is in authority whether we recognize that authority or not. So who are we to cast judgment on the God of the universe?

Have a great day! Thanks for the visit.


PDXKaraokeGuy profile image

PDXKaraokeGuy 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

good HUb, but you cover no new ground here. All the evidence provided are either scriptures taken out of context, and you're relying ont he BIble as your evidence. I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, but I believe Jesus spoke almost exclusivelt in metaphors, as ebidenced byt he parables you sited. Hell itself was a lieteral place outside the city of Jerusalem where the garbage was burned and the fire never went out. Why is this rarely mentioned in sermons about hell? How can we take some of the words of Jesus literally and others to be metaphors? Jesus wasn't being literal when he talked about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle then it is for a rich man to get to Heaven? You can't pick and choose what's literal and what's metaphoric. I choose to take the words of Jesus and the bible and live them. Whatever that means when i die, who knows... Nobody knows.


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 5 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

"All the evidence provided are either scriptures taken out of context, and you're relying ont he BIble as your evidence."

The part about using the Bible as evidence is definitely true. I don't reference literature from other religions as I personally don't consider them to be authoritative. Here's the thought process I have around that:

I believe that Old Testament scripture written hundreds to over a thousand years before Jesus was born accurately predicted his arrival and other circumstances of his life, death, etc. Several Old Testament books literally point to Jesus (see my hub "Is Jesus Who He Claims To Be?" for details). These men were given the ability to know and write about the future. And, the person they wrote about was Jesus. This wasn't just the writings of one man. Several men collectively wrote about varying aspects of His life and ministry. This is enormous validation for Christianity.

The other important fact is that Christianity is different from all other world religions. All other religions are focused on teachings (about God, about the afterlife, etc.). Christianity is completely wrapped around an event: the resurrection of Jesus. It lives or dies with the historical validity of that event. If Jesus didn't actually walk around teaching after his crucifixion then Christianity can be completely abandoned. And yet he did. This is covered in that same hub.

If Jesus was raised from the dead, then this is validation for the teachings of Jesus as well (he is the son of God, belief in Christ yields salvation, what happens after we die, etc.). Since Jesus believed and supported the Old Testament scripture (one true God, creation story, etc.), those things should be considered reliable as well. So I use the Bible because I believe it to be valid and historical.

While Jesus did use metaphors in his teachings, he was still teaching something. The trick is to figure out what was being taught. Why would he bother teaching if there was no truth to be found within the parable? He isn't just telling stories because they're cute. In each story, there is some truth for us to learn. Sometimes Jesus would give us the explanation of a parable. This first parable I listed in the hub is an example of that.

"The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:38-42)

Revelation 20 is also worth reading. It clearly continues the "tormented forever" description we see from Jesus Himself. First the devil goes there to be tormented forever. Later, those who were not written in the book of life.

Revelations 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be TORMENTED day and night for ever and ever.

Revelations 20:13-15 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Not everything Jesus said was a metaphor, and even His metaphors were meant to teach something tangible.

Thanks for visiting!


hemustincrease 5 years ago

PDXKaraokeGuy. Just curious. Do you believe what Christ said about heaven and eternal life? Do you consider that to be literal teaching or do you consider the Bible provides no assurance of after life whether for His followers or those who reject Him? I accept that there is far more we do not know about heaven and hell, than we do. But i also believe that Christ made what He did teach us, plain enough to be of absolute certainty that the instant we die, we will be transported to one of two places. One being unending bliss in a place without sin, free to love and serve and glorify the Lord perfectly, and one being unending torment, forever separated from God’s grace, mercy and love (completely.......here on earth, even those who reject Him have common grace and can experience a certain amount of pleasure and happiness, though this is temporal). And knowing this provides the believer with increasing love and gratitude to Christ and more urgency to tell others in the hope that they too will find assurance, through Christ, of an eternity spent with Him. What we believe about the doctrine of heaven and hell does affect how we live in the here and now in every way. blessings Jo


PDXKaraokeGuy profile image

PDXKaraokeGuy 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

sonfollowers, I agree with you that Christianity is different from all other religions and I also have no problem with you using the Bible to back up your points. I just have many doubts about the way the Bible is translated and taught and how some areas of the doctrine are thrown out and others brought in. If you haven't, you should read a book called "the History of Christianity" by Daniel Moynahan. It's very eye opening and i feel it's written very objectively.

I'm on a quest, trying to reconcile the way I was raised with the way i now feel. I don't think I can worship a god who creates souls whom he knows will be separated from Him forever. Those are not the actions of a loving god. The Jehovah's Witness doctrine of annihilation is more merciful. but, my soul and my spirit long to worship Him. I don't go to church anymore, but i do go to worship services because it's what my soul craves, so I know there's something to that. But, if I'm going to be able to worship God as a loving God, I need to be kept in the dark about some things. I hope this makes sense.

Jo

I don't know what i believe anymore. Certainly I want to believe in heaven, but even the concept of Heaven is hard for me to grasp, but not nearly as hard as the concept of hell. The need for punishment exists, but the idea of unending punishment for the actions during a finite lifetime is incomprehensible to me and completely contradicts my idea what "love" means when God says He is Love. Then again, I am NOT God and I can't see the whole picture and I can't see into the hearts of men, He can. I just have these questions banging loudly in my ears and I want them to go away, whatever that means.

If you'd like to know more, please check out my blog "Who's Going to Hell and for How Long."

My quest isn't to find the answer that sounds the best, my quest is to find the truth and I want to continue worshiping God along the way. I also want to understand Him and His ways.

Thank u both for your kind prayers, questions and comments!


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 4 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

PDXKaraokeGuy,

I understand what you mean about feeling unsure about what you believe. There are so many different voices and opinions out there that it can definitely get confusing. It's up to each of us to examine the evidence, think it through, and decide what we believe is true. Still, it seems clear that "what's true is true", regardless of what we believe. I certainly have not followed my parents' theology (the way I was raised). I tried to figure it out for myself. I think most of us stray to some extent from what we were taught when we were kids. I think the trick is to discern which of those things to keep while we're figuring out which to throw away.

One additional thought:

You've probably read that God wasn't a fan of idols back in the day and Jesus said that God wants us to worship Him in "spirit and in truth." He wants us to know Him as he is (not how we wish he were). If we're worshiping "God" but not God as He is in the Bible (because there are things we don't want to think about), is God going to consider that to be good enough? Or will he instead say "I never knew you" because "you never knew Me"? From my perspective, it makes more sense to drill in at a detailed level and understand who God says He is. At least then you'll know who it is that you're following.

Peace.

Mike


lambservant profile image

lambservant 4 years ago from Pacific Northwest

Very good hub. I just finished a book by Francis Chan called Erasing Hell: What God Said About Eternity, and the Things We Made Up. I don't like the title because it is not about erasing hell. But he does point out that a lot of so-called Christian leaders and followers are changing, or denying the doctrine of hell. Chan worked on this book with Preston Sprinkle who did all the research for the book. Much like you, they take a very indepth look into God's word, especially Jesus words on Hell. Very illuminating. I am going to write a book review on it. Anyway, check it out if you want. Chan is a good writer.


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 4 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

Thanks for the tip. I read your hub on it and it was very well done. I'm looking forward to reading it myself.

Thanks for reading!


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

This hub is spiritual terrorism, and what does that make the creater of this hub?


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 4 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

We can certainly agree to disagree. I have no problem with that. I think anyone who reads Matthew chapter 25 in it's entirety (not just the parable itself but the part where Jesus actually explains it in detail) should clearly understand the message Jesus is trying to convey. Somehow you interpret that passage differently. I would be interested in your take on it and why you believe what you believe.

Either way, you are confused about one thing. You believe that hell is not real. That's fine. We can disagree on that. For those that believe hell is real and that rejecting the love of Jesus will send us there, telling people about hell is the most loving thing they could do. It's like a fireman seeing a house on fire but not ringing the doorbell for fear of bothering someone. It makes no sense. Your spiritual terrorism comment is a blatant mischaracterization of what I was trying to accomplish in this hub. It's just grand-standing.

The bottom line is I think the Bible clearly communicates something other than what you believe. You disagree. You certainly have a right to do that. I sincerely hope things work out for you.


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

How dare you to accuse me of being confused. Has it occurred to you that your beliefs are wrong? Christ never once uttered the word hell in any language. He did however warn the Jews of the coming wrath of God on Judah through the spiritual use of the place called Gehenna. Preaching about hell is not a loving thing, it is spiritual terrorism and the greatest lie ever created by man. You are clueless as to what God can and will achieve, what the power of love is truly capable of achieving. You have no idea that this unfailing, unconditional, faithful love has already forgiven and forgotten all sin. You believe that God believes that those who go to hell deserve what they get and so you too must believe that they get what they deserve. It is no secret that those who are determined to believe in hell have a hidden thirst for vengeance on those who reject God. So what if they reject Him, that will not nullify His faith in them. This is exactly how the grace of God works. When Christ died on the cross, His death did this. He saved us all from eternal sleep in our graves to reconcile us all eventually to the Father. It goes like this as a friend of mine called disappearinghead puts it. It's like if we were to go tramping through the woods and a bear came running out and pinned you to the ground; you are about to die and your situation is hopeless. Christ picks up his shotgun, and kills the bear. You are now saved whether you asked for it or not, whether you like it or not, or whether you accepted it or not. It's a done deal, and nothing you can do can change the fact that you are now saved, it's past tense. As for you fireman analogy, thank God, are firemen are more competent than the image of the God you believe in, as a professional will drag you out of a burning house whether you want it or not. The belief and teachings of hell, have pushed many to suicide and murder of their children to save them from such an evil. It has made the church rich in wealth by fear. It has created counterfeit Christians who worship only to avoid going to hell. No friend, there is no love in teaching the hell doctrine, as it makes the living God of love an utter failure. It is written that God made man in His image, sadly most Christians have repaid Him back by doing the same to Him.


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 4 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

Again, please read Matthew 25 and explain how Jesus' explanation of his parable fits your world view. I'm very interested in how you reach your conclusion in light of this passage. Thanks!


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

Matt 25 has nothing to do with an eternal place of evil. It is Christ warning the Jews and only the Jews what it will be like on that chosen day by the Father. The end of the old age and the beginning of the new age. The end of the old covenant and the beginning of the new Matt 24:3. The second destruction of the temple and the second time end of the Jewish religion also know to them as the second death. This was prophesized in the parable of the rich man and Lazerus in Luke 16. A.D70 was a great time of woe and sorrow for the few surviving Jews who watched in horror as their temple was destroyed by Rome. John prophesizes this in Matt 3:10.

Let me ask you this. Christ warned the Jews about the fires of Gehenna, but uttered no word of it to the gentiles. Paul wrote in Acts 20:27 that he taught us all what God wants us to know, but nowhere in his letters does he warn the gentiles about the fires of Gehenna let alone hell. Why not? If God wants to save us all from such a horrible place, why didn't He instruct Paul to warn the gentiles about it?


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 4 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

Before we get to Paul, how does the excerpt below fit with your description?

"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels... And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

eternal = everlasting. Same thing. I don't see your description fits with these verses.


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

Before I answer this question, it is important that you acknowledge first that Christ warned the Jews and not the gentiles. In other words, His warnings of these verses were spoken to the Jews alone.


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 4 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

Sure. I definitely agree that he spoke directly to those who were with him (ie. Jews). It wasn't until after the ascension of Jesus that gentiles were involved at all. In fact, all of Jesus' words were spoken to directly to Jews rather than gentiles (except random Romans). Are you arguing then that none of the words of Jesus are relevent for us today? I assume not. We know that gentiles were included in the payment on the cross. Gentiles are saved in the same manner that Jews are saved. Nowhere in chapters 24 and 25 does Jesus say that his message is specific to the Jews. The context of his message is the end times, which is relevent to all of us.


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

Good! We are getting somewhere. Christ came only to minister to the lost sheep in Israel, and yes, His blood was shed for all. And to prove that the warnings of Gehenna was only meant for the gentiles we will find in Acts 20:27 that Paul taught us all what God wants us to know, but nowhere in his letters do you find him warning the gentiles about the fires of Gehenna like Christ did for the Jews, as a matter of fact, you won't find Paul utter once the word hell in any language in any of his letters to the gentiles. So why do most Christians still believe that God would create a place of eternal torment for those who reject Him? Many reasons. And I can still show them the meanings of Christ's teachings and warnings and they still refuse to think that their beliefs may be wrong. I know, as I too was a hell believer. The bottom line is this. If you combine a carnal view to scripture with fear, blind ego, self-righteous pride, a hidden desire for vengeance and spark the religious engine with a pharisitical spirit. You get a determined believer of hell. To suppose that God would bring beings into existence for both His purpose and pleasure who He knew in advance without mercy would be infinite losers by that existence, is to charge him a hypocrite with the utmost malignity.

As for the second coming, It already happened A.D.70 spiritually. You 2nd coming literalist believers just can't grasp the fact that Christ already came in spirit. He came when that generation was still alive as He said would happen in Matt 24:33-34. As He told Peter about John in John 21:23. As John the Baptist prophesized in Matt 3:1-10. (At-hand) means very soon, not 2000 years or more latter. You have been schooled by men who have little knowledge or wisdom, and Paul warned you that many of these people will come when he is gone, yet you still refuse to except that all are saved and that Christ's second coming has already happened. If everlasting or forever is truly a Greek word in scripture, than please explain why the same Greek word was translated in "world" in Matt 24:3?


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 4 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

People who believe in hell are mean and evil. I hear you.

I think the New Testament is clear that all those who believe in Jesus will be saved. You can't reject Jesus your entire life, carry that rejection to the grave, and still be saved.

"And then he told them, 'Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone. Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.'" (Mark 16:15-16)

John chapter 3 covers this as well.

"God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son." (John 3:17-18)

Paul carried the exact same message.

"For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God." (Romans 10:4)

Notice that this verse is written to the gentiles, not the Jews. The message is identical to the one carried by Jesus as well as His disciples. We are saved by faith (believing in Christ). Those who do not believe are not saved. I really don't see how you could gather from these passages that all are saved (belief or not). You would have to either ignore these passages (unwise) or somehow interpret them in such a way that they don't actually mean what they say?


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

Ok, since you are not able to grasp what Paul taught, here we go.

Believe?

"And then he told them, 'Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone. Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved. But anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned.'" (Mark 16:15-16)

Romans 3: 3What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?

1Tm:4:9: This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 11 Command and teach these things.

Do you accept this and command and teach this?

Romans 11:32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Death because of Adam, and life because of Jesus.

"Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying For even as, through the disobedience of the one man [Adam], the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One [Christ], the many shall be constituted just" (Rom. 5:18-19). Square brackets our mine.

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is One God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Who gave Himself a ransom for ALL to be testified in due time" (I Tim. 2:3-4).

1Corithians 15:

22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.

23 Yet each in his own class: the First fruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;

24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.

25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.

26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.

27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.

28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in

John 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.

John 6:39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Col 1:20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

You see, Paul taught more about the ministry of reconciliation of all than he did condemnation. Condemnation in my view is during our time in the flesh. Most Christians sadly see God as an old man constantly angry with His creation and with an allergy to sin. It is my belief that God is the exact opposite. Christ said that if you have seen me, you have seen the Father. Christ in the flesh is what we can expect from our Father. Christ walked, spoke, sat and ate with all sorts of sinners, and He showed them love and compassion. You talk about condemnation as a bad thing, but did Christ condemn the adulterous? No! We as Christians need to stop demanding justice, and start showing understanding and compassion for those who live, think and do less than us. Walk a mile in their shoes and see why they don't live Godly. And no, people who believe in hell are not mean and evil, they just have mean and evil desires in their hearts.


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 4 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

The verse in Romans 3 you chose does not make your point. Paul is talking here about the advantages of being a Jew. Actually, later in that chapter he makes a statement that contradicts your teaching.

"We are made right with God by PLACING OUR FAITH in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are... For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they BELIEVE that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood." (Romans 3:22, 25)

Again, this is identical to the message of Christ, isn't it?

Here's another one:

“Salvation that comes from trusting Christ—which is the message we preach—is already within easy reach. … For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.” (Romans 10:8-10)

I understand what you see in the passage of 1 Timothy 4, but as you can see Paul's own words contradict your interpretation of this passage. In light of this, we're compelled to give the most specific of the seemingly contradictory verses the most weight. Romans 3 and Romans 10 agree with Christ's words in John 3. Belief/faith is integral to salvation. Christ is in fact the savior of all men because the free gift of salvation was made AVAILABLE to everyone. Based on the other verses, this is the only way to interpret this verse without Paul's own words contradicting themselves.

This applies to Romans 5 as well. You're putting a lot of weight on Paul's use of the word "all" in verse 18, when in verse 19 he changes it to "many."

"Yes, Adam's one sin brings condemnation for everyone, but Christ's one act of righteousness brings a right relationship with God and new life for everyone. Because one person disobeyed God, many became sinners. But because one other person obeyed God, MANY will be made righteous." (Romans 5:18-19)

Same with 1 Timothy 2:3-4.

In the end, your interpretation of the passages you reference only works if you look at them in isolation and ignore the words of Paul that contradict your interpretation. But, Paul's words deserve to be viewed whollistically rather than in isolation. Apparent conflicts must be resolved rather than ignored.


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 4 years ago from Burlington

We are finished.


cam8510 profile image

cam8510 3 years ago from Columbus, Georgia until the end of November 2016.

Hi sonfollowers, I really want to focus on just one part of your hub. By the way, you did a splendid job of explaining much of what the New Testament teaches on the subject of Hell.

There is one part of your hub that I want to point out, make my own observation and then hear what you have to say. I am afraid I am going to have to insert a lengthy passage of Scripture for the benefit of others who might read our exchange of ideas.

Matthew 25:31-46.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

I am not going to discuss the existence or nonexistence of Hell. Certainly Jesus believed in an eternal place of fire into which some would be thrown. That is not in question in these verses.

In these verses, Jesus is the King/Judge. There are people on His right and people on His left. He speaks first to those on his right saying, "For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me." Their reward, according to Jesus is is this. "‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world."

Imagine you were one of those listening to Jesus tell this story. They did not have the four Gospels or the writings of Paul and others who wrote later. They had this little snippet of teaching. What would they walk away with?

I will put it in as few words as possible. I believe those people went home that day thinking, "Hey, Jesus wants me to be the kind of person who gives to others and helps them when they are in need, no matter what that need is. I can do that. And he said if I do, I will be welcome into a kingdom prepared for me since the creation of the world. Cool!"

That is on the positive side. Now for the other side. Jesus the King/Judge will look to his left and say these words. "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me."

What would people take away from Jesus teaching that day concerning the people on the left side of the King/Judge? They would say something like this. "Oh, my. If I ignore those around me who are experiencing pain and suffering and do nothing to help, I am going to be thrown into a fire that burns forever. Martha, give that poor man over there a drachma."

I know I am focusing on a subtopic, but that is what stood out to me as I read your hub.

Two quick points. First, Jesus did not give an altar call for people to come forward and accept Him as their personal savior. He simply and creatively told them to be truly good people. Then he told them what would happen if they were truly bad people. There was no element of salvation by faith in this passage.

Here is my question to you. If this is the only thing any of those present that day ever heard from or about Jesus, (I have to believe there were such people in the crowd) and they obeyed his exact words in that story, would they be accepted into the kingdom? Jesus is teaching salvation by works in this passage. I know the response of 21st century Christians. They say we must take the "whole counsel of God" into consideration, meaning all that the Bible has to say on a given topic. Well, the people there that day did not have that benefit. They heard that they were to be truly good people and that the reward would be entrance into an awesome kingdom. If they were truly bad people, they would be thrown into an eternal fire.

Was Jesus guilty of leading these people astray by teaching them that eternal salvation was the result of being truly good and not mentioning salvation by faith in Jesus.

The objection that this was before the death and resurrection of Christ does not hold up. Galatians makes it clear that salvation had always been a matter of faith, but Jesus left it out of the story.


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 3 years ago from Burlington

Here is a question for you cam8. If Hell is real and most of mankind is doomed to go there, does that not violate the declaration of Paul who said that Christ's righteous act on the cross gave ALL mankind a free gift resulting in justification of life?! (Rom. 5:18)


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 3 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

SwordofManticorE,

I've actually already answered this question for you about 4 comments up. If you scroll up you'll see it. Thanks!


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 3 years ago from Burlington

You didn't answer anything, and besides, we're done.


cam8510 profile image

cam8510 3 years ago from Columbus, Georgia until the end of November 2016.

SwordofManticorE, that is entirely possible as far as I am concerned. Others would say that this refers to the availability, not the effectiveness of Christ's work on the cross. I would then bring up the accessibility of that same work. It has not been accessible to the vast majority of humans from the beginning till now, as you have pointed out.

Hey, take it easy on sonfollowers, he is a good man.


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 3 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

cam8510,

This really is a continuation of the discussion we were having in your hub on hell. After thinking about this some, I am willing to go out on a limb and say how I believe this works. Again, as you've pointed out in that other discussion, there is a giant hole in the knowledge we have around this and what I'm about to say is conjecture. Still, I think it makes more sense up against scripture than other thoughts I've heard til now.

There are essentially 7 groups who received different messages.

- God exists

- Ten Commandments (those who were there when the ten commandments were given but were no longer alive when the law was given)

- Law (those who were exposed to the law and the ten commandments)

- Messianic Prophecy (those who were exposed to the writings of the prophets like Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc.; these people had the opportunity to understand that a messiah was coming.)

- Those exposed to some part of the message of Christ

- Those exposed to the gospels

- Those exposed to Acts and the epistles, especially Romans which really deals with the theology of salvation.

So let's focus for now on the first group. This is everyone who was never exposed to the law, the ten commandments, the words of Christ, or the words of Paul who later really explained the post-resurrection theology. These people were only exposed to God himself, through nature. I believe this is the most basic exposure to the Biblical truth that everyone on earth has received. I believe this is what Paul was referring to in Romans 1:20 ("...they are without excuse."). If you read the entire chapter, it's clear that salvation through Christ really isn't involved in these verses. The decision point here is to either acknowledge God the creator or refuse to acknowledge him. We have all failed to acknowledge God (either now or in our past), and sin was the ultimate result. That sin then is what condems all of us. But we all have an opportunity to receive salvation. That is the message here, not that the natives in North America were responsible for believing in a Christ they were never exposed to (Mormonism aside).

"The Lord isn't really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent." (2 Peter 3:9)

But we know that both Jesus and Paul taught that salvation was by faith, by believing. The entire world does not get "grandfathered in." So then how does that work?

Today we are clearly accountable for the message we've been given, which is all of it. You don't seem to dispute that. Since you and I do not fall into the camp of those who have never heard the gospel, we are accountable to act on the information we've been provided. For everyone else, I believe that the rules still apply. Each of these groups is responsible to have faith in the message they have been exposed to. If all you had was the ten commandments, you're responsible for choosing faith in God by trying to follow the message you have. Salvation for you is still by faith. It's really the same requirement for everyone. That's my opinion.

Regardless, the Bible doesn't deal with this explicitly which is why it's so confusing. At the end of the day, it still boils down to trust. Do we trust that he really and truly wants no one to perish? The answer for me is a resounding yes.


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 3 years ago from Burlington

@cam8510 I could provide dozens and dozens of verses that God's perfect plan is the reconcilition of all mankind with God, but would that change your opinion about the doctrine of hell? Think about it.


cam8510 profile image

cam8510 3 years ago from Columbus, Georgia until the end of November 2016.

SwordofManicorE, What is your understanding of my view of hell? I think maybe you have misunderstood me, or that I have not communicated well.


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 3 years ago from Burlington

@cam8, we are all tested in a fire, not literally thrown in one. The LoF you spoke about earlior, is it the same fire spoken in 1Cor3 10-15?


cam8510 profile image

cam8510 3 years ago from Columbus, Georgia until the end of November 2016.

Yes, I was writing about how many interpret the Bible's words. If you read without being defensive from the outset you will realize that I do not believe in Hell or the Lake of Fire. In one of my Hubs, I explain my understanding of the origin of the concept of a Lake of Fire. This is from my own study of primary sources which are at least 3500 years old.

You may have gotten confused about my position due to how I make my argument, so the misunderstanding may be partly my fault.


SwordofManticorE profile image

SwordofManticorE 3 years ago from Burlington

@cam8, I believe in what was written about the LoF, but I also believe that the symbolic use of the LoF is God the Father. I believe this fire and what we read in 1Cor 3 is the same fire.


cam8510 profile image

cam8510 3 years ago from Columbus, Georgia until the end of November 2016.

I can live with that interpretation. I just can't accept people, especially the billions of those who never heard one word about the Bible or Gospel or Jesus, people who certainly lived on earth throughout its history, going to a fiery eternity for not accepting or rejecting a message they never got.


cam8510 profile image

cam8510 3 years ago from Columbus, Georgia until the end of November 2016.

sonfollowers, I enjoyed your explanation of salvation by faith throughout history. This is closer to what the Bible puts forth than anything else proposed. There is one problem with it and that appears in Romans 1:20 which you have quoted. Yes, according to Paul, there are those whose only divine revelation was/is nature. The end result is still no chance of salvation. The only purpose this revelation serves is to render the recipients without excuse on the day of judgement. That's it. They still go to hell.

Otherwise, if accepting natural revelation of God (faith in the content of that revelation) resulted in salvation, it would be a workable plan. It would match up with salvation by faith for everybody else who had received divine revelation.

According to the Bible, it is not really accepting or rejecting Jesus that condemns, but sin that condemns. But it all amounts to the same thing because Jesus is the only remedy for sin. So there is no resolution of the difficulties for those who have had only natural revelation.

I have a slightly related question. The Book of Revelation speaks of having one's name in the Book of Life. How did the names get there? I am looking for specific scriptures that explain the process or event that resulted in getting one's name in the Book.


cam8510 profile image

cam8510 3 years ago from Columbus, Georgia until the end of November 2016.

sonfollowers, by the way, my brother-in-law is a Southern Baptist pastor in Summerville, Ga, not terribly far from you.


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 3 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

cam8150,

I personally don't think that verse says what you suspect it does. I know how it's been used, but if you look at the passage in context rather than in isolation it doesn't really have the same meaning. Please do me a favor and read the entire chapter of Romans 1, with emphasis on the section below (Romans 1:18-23). Let's break it up into three parts.

"But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness." (v. 18)

This is essentially the thesis statement. Paraphrase: Some people do wicked things, suppressing the truth, and God is angry about that. But what truth are they suppressing?

"They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God."

Paraphrase: Those that do not know God (not Christ by the way, but God generally) have no valid excuses. God's existence is obvious in the design and complexity of nature.

"Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles."

So they made up little gods and ignored the big God (which God doesn't really like very much). Now, if you read the rest of the verses in the chapter, Paul then describes how not knowing God culminated in all kinds of sin. By ignoring God and chasing their sin instead, they set themselves up for judgment.

Now, this is the point I'm getting at:

There are contextually two groups of people here, both of which fall into the camp of people who never heard the gospel, the law, ten commandments, etc.

1. those who see and recognize God's handiwork in the world around them and choose to worship Him.

2. those who refuse to worship Him and do their own thing.

Paul is really focused on the second group, obviously, but I don't think it's valid to infer that, because Paul doesn't talk much about the first group, this group must have no members. What we do see here is that the standard for those people is to know God. He never says in this chapter that they are held accountable for the message of Christ. Their responsibility is to take what they've been given (which ain't much) and respond to that. I actually think this is consistent with what I was describing earlier.

About the Lamb's Book of Life, if you take a few minutes and look at my "How to be Saved" hub I think that might help. It doesn't reference the Book of Life specifically, but that book essentially contains the names of the people who have been marked for salvation. The Holy Spirit is that mark. He is the deposit/downpayment that God puts down as a guarantee on our inheritance. That hub deals with that in detail. After that, let me know what else you're looking for. I'm happy to help you look.

That's awesome about your brother-in-law being from here. My mother-in-law lives in Grand Rapids. :) My dad was a Baptist minister as well, so I spent an awful lot of time in church growing up. I go to a large non-denominational church now and love it.


cam8510 profile image

cam8510 3 years ago from Columbus, Georgia until the end of November 2016.

I've looked Romans 1 over again. I can see what you are saying. My problem (but I certainly am open to correction) is that there is only one kind of people mentioned; those who rejected the only divine revelation they had available to them. Another group, those who accepted it, is not mentioned. We are left to assume. I don't mind assumption if it is called for, but again, does it rise to the level of divinely inspired truth? The only purpose mentioned for giving this revelation in the first place is to render them without excuse at judgement day. I will continue to ponder this and be open. It certainly is not out of the question.


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 3 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

Yeah, sorry. I think I didn't say it right. The more I read this the more I really feel like we're on the right track. You do see that the requirement in this case is to recognize God's presence in the design of the universe, right? The point I'm making starts there. They're not held accountable to a message they couldn't possibly receive, which was your concern if I understand you right. What he's essentially saying is that, if they refuse to acknowledge God based on this divine revelation, they are without excuse. They were given a message; they are accountable for that message. Not having heard about Jesus is not a valid excuse because they aren't being held accountable to that.

The piece that's not clear here is whether or not anyone exists who did in fact see God and connect with him. Clearly the opportunity is there (to Paul's point), and I believe that plenty of people reached out to whoever is out there believing that someone is greater than they are. I just don't think that was what Paul was trying to communicate. He left that part open. It didn't fit in with the thesis statement.

About the purpose of revelation from God, I believe that the purpose of all revelation from God is for us to know Him and be in relationship with Him. Sometimes when you talk it seems to feel like a cosmic game of Jeopardy to you. I know some of that is because the stakes are so high. God legitimately wants us to recognize Him and connect with Him. He is no better off for the relationship. We are the ones who benefit, now and in the future. Revealing Himself to us is another expression of His love for us. We are given the opportunity to become heirs of the King of the Universe and to relate to Him as Father... Dad. So were they. We have more information to go on than they did, but they had the same opportunities we do. Our path is more specific because we have a specific person on whom to focus. Theirs was more general.

That's my take on it.


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 3 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

BTW, I'm having a lot of fun discussing this stuff with you. You're really sharp and you keep me on my toes. I think we're very similar in the way we process things as well. You really seem to be seeking and trying hard to figure things out, which is awesome. When I stop doing that just shoot me. :)

Thanks, dude. Really.


cam8510 profile image

cam8510 3 years ago from Columbus, Georgia until the end of November 2016.

I've known a few people whose only goal was to be right. No matter how clearly wrong they were, they were still right in their own eyes. They want finely tuned, canned arguments that allow them to be lazy and not ask genuine questions and seek meaningful answers. That serves no purpose and does not enlighten anyone. I simply am not put together like that thankfully. For me the search is real. I'm sure I sometimes border on rebellion, but God is God and I am not. I get put in my place plenty. The humbling is good.

I'm going to continue thinking about Romans 1 in this light. I'm not accustomed to allowing the unwritten to interpret the written. But, I am open. Yes, we've had a good sharpening time here and no tempers rose. That is good. Thanks.


bBerean profile image

bBerean 2 years ago

Another excellent hub. Spot on regarding a difficult but necessary topic.


sonfollowers profile image

sonfollowers 2 years ago from Alpharetta, GA Author

bBerean,

Thanks for the feedback and thanks for stopping by! Your opinions and feedback are certainly welcome. Nice to meet you!

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