Is The God Of The Old Testament One God Or A Trinity?

Gods?

Copyright 2012 VVeasey Publishing

06/09/12

If you've never studied the history of the Bible with an open, receptive mind, not the history presented in the Bible, but the history of the how the book came into existence, who wrote and when and for what purpose. And you believe everything you read in the Bible is literally true.

Then you might want to change the channel, because this hub is probably not for you.

If you can't accept what's being presented because it goes against your cherished beliefs...please turn the channel.



That said, lets begin


And God said; “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” Genesis 1:26.The explanation that the word God (in Hebrew Elohim) is referring to one being when the words following its use are the plural words, “us”, and “our”, leaves something to be desired in my mind. The explanation given by Christian clergy is that, “us” and “our”, are referring to the trinity of God (the father), Jesus (the son), and the Holy Spirit (originally the Holy Ghost) with references from the New Testament to support this view.

The problem is that the in Old Testament there appears to be no reference (at least, not to my awareness) to God as being a trinity or three beings in one. The Rabbis (the scholars of Judaism) in ancient and modern times always refer to God as being one (although the word Elohim they translated from the Hebrew as God really means Gods. While El means God)." Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" Deuteronomy 6:4

Christians use quotes from the New Testament to support the idea that when God says “us” and “our” it means the trinity, Jesus (not that I’m aware of) never makes that statement. He mainly refers to God as the father, my father, our father or your father, never as a three part-being or himself as being part of a three part-being.

The Bible Jesus used wasn’t the Christian Bible because it wasn’t created until about four hundred years after his death. The Bible he used was the Hebrew Bible. Which Christians called the Old Testament. In the Old Testament God is always depicted as a singular being even when the word God is obviously referring to more than one being, as when it’s used in conjunction with the words “us” and ‘our’.

Even when the word Lord (Yahweh) is substituted for God (Elohim) in the Tower of Babel story, this pattern of use still applies “Come, let us go down, and there confound their language” Genesis 11: 7. This pattern of use suggests that the texts were referring to more than one being, but not the Christian Trinity, because the ancient and modern Rabbis don’t accept Jesus or the Holy Spirit as a part of their sacred traditions.

Whatever discrepancy these writers may have had concerning whether God (Elohim) was a singular or a plural being, they definitely weren’t confused about whether he was the Christians’ Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit or not. One reason the Rabbis don’t accept the Christian Bible is because the early Roman Catholic Church fathers merged the Hebrew Bible (the original Bible) with their "New Testament" writings to support the idea that the Hebrew Bible’s God (Elohim or Yahweh) was now, his own son, Jesus, manifested in the flesh!

The Trinity Is Not In The Original Bible

If the doctrine of God (Elohim) being a trinity is not in the original Bible (as it appears to me it’s not) then it seems that the early Christian writers, consciously or unconsciously, projected that concept into the original Bible to suit their religious or political needs or both. The original Bible existed hundreds of years before it was collated with the Christians' New Testament writings to create the first Christian Bible, the Roman Catholic Bible or the Latin Vulgate.

The Hebrew Bible’s status and authority was long established and it was the holy book of an ancient religion, Judaism. It was the Bible that Jesus used. But as I said Jesus never refers to himself or God as being a trinity or part of a trinity. The only trinity he or the original Bible writers refer to is, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob or the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The doctrine of the word in the beginning of the gospel of John (written around a thousand years after the Hebrew Bible) is used to support the idea that the, ‘us”, associated with God in the original Bible, is Christianity’s Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit."In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it". John 1:1-5

But if this important concept was already in the Old Testament it would be easy to see and there would have been no need for early Christian writers to compose documents, to "show" that that trinity concept already existed there and that it was referring to their new God and savior, Jesus, as the second person in the trinity. I therefore conclude, (based on my analysis of the issue) that although Elohim (the word translated as God but realy means Gods) in the Old Testament does appear to refer to a plurality of beings that term is not referring to the Christian trinity.

The Elohim were actually the ancient gods or family of Gods of Canaan or what’s now called the Middle East. Remember Canaan was the promised land God promised to the Children Of Israel, where they settled after Moses and Joshua lead them after their Exodus from Egypt and was roughly located where the state of Israel is today.

Checkout these quotes by experts on the subject

Experts On The Elohim

"For the ancient Hebrews divinities (Elohim) dwelt in nature and in the sky. Different tribes each had particular deities who were especially concerned with their affairs".( Ninian Smart, The Religious Experience of Mankind (www.mystae.com)

"The geologist Christian O'Brien argued that these [ancient Hebrew and Sumerian] texts describe a race of beings called Shining Ones, his translation of the Hebrew word Elohim. These beings created modern humans from earlier human forms by genetic manipulation. Some of these beings, called Watchers, mated with humans, and this was considered a crime by the Shining Ones. One of the Watchers was named Shemjaza, and Yahweh was one of the Shining Ones. O'Brien argued that the Shining Ones were superior but mortal beings of unknown origin." (Richard L. Thompson, Alien Identities - Ancient Insights into Modern UFO Phenomena (www.mystae.com)

“The etymology of the word Elohim is unknown. There are many theories, however. The most likely derivation comes from the word Elohim ('lhm) found in the Ugarit archives, meaning the family or pantheon associated with the Canaanite father God El”. (Wikipedia.com).

Now a couple of quotes from the Old and New Testaments to complete the picture,

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD”( Deuteronomy 6:4). If God is “one Lord” he’s not a trinity.(The Old Testament)

“And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”Matthew 27:46. Jesus said “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (The New Testament)

So that means he’s not God and not part of a trinity if he’s crying out to God for an answer wouldn't agree?

.The doctrine of the trinity didn’t become official Christian doctrine until after the first Council of Constantinople. In 381 A.D. when Roman Emperor Theodosius made it the official doctrine of the Roman Catholic Christian Churches for these political and religious reasons:“It is our desire that all the various nations which are subject to our Clemency and Moderation, should continue to the profession of that religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter, as it has been preserved by faithful tradition and which is now professed by the Pontiff Damasus and by Peter, Bishop of Alexandria, a man of apostolic holiness.

According to the apostolic teaching and the doctrine of the Gospel, let us believe the one deity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, in equal majesty and in a holy Trinity. We authorize the followers of this law to assume the title of Catholic Christians; but as for the others, since, in our judgment they are foolish madmen, we decree that they shall be branded with the ignominious name of heretics, and shall not presume to give to their conventicles the name of churches.They will suffer in the first place the chastisement of the divine condemnation and in the second the punishment of our authority which in accordance with the will of Heaven shall decide to inflict”(.[9] (Henry Bettenson, Documents of the Christian Church, Oxford University Press, 1967, 2nd. (1st. 1943), p. 22)

After reading the above quotes doesn’t it seem logical to you that the real “us” and “our” God is referring to in Genesis 1:26 is the family or pantheon of Gods called the Elohim and not the Christian trinity?

I rest my case.

The Bible And The Family Who Wrote It!

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Comments 10 comments

Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews 4 years ago from NORTH YORK,ONTARIO,CANADA

vveasey: If God's Holy Spirit is not real, How do you explain then GENESIS: 1:2; where it states: "And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

You might also like to look at Genesis:41:38 Exodus:31:3; Judges:6:34 just to name a few scriptures that establishes the fact that the Holy Spirit of God is real.

As for Jesus the Son, you might wish to look at

Numbers: 23:19; Isaiah:7:14; Isaiah:9:6; Ezekiel:2:1; and many more; these all refer to "The Son of Man" which Jesus referred to himself as in the Gospels.

Therefore what you claim here goes against God's Holy Word The Bible.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Dave Mathews

thanks for your comments

You say "vveasey: If God's Holy Spirit is not real, How do you explain then GENESIS: 1:2; where it states: "And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Dave show me in my hub where I say God's holy spirit is not real?


Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews 4 years ago from NORTH YORK,ONTARIO,CANADA

vveasey: It is your title question that required my response. Also you write that in the old testament there is no reference to God being three persons.

I gave you scripture to point out that scripture in the old testament exists.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Dave Mathews

No Dave it's your accusation that that requires your response

You made this accusation

You say "vveasey: If God's Holy Spirit is not real, How do you explain then GENESIS: 1:2; where it states: "And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

In response to that statement I asked you this question again,

Dave show me in my hub where I say God's holy spirit is not real?

I still waiting for your answer


Amethystraven profile image

Amethystraven 4 years ago from California

I really dig this hub. I am slowly reading the Bible. I am interested in all of the interpretations. I have heard that there are certain words that cannot translate from Hebrew to English. This leads me to ask are there important things left out? Why haven't all people been taught Hebrew to understand the true words of God if these teachings and beliefs are of high importance? I would like to think the Bible would have been left alone and people would have taken the time to learn Hebrew to have a full knowledge and understanding of the word of God. If people really want to know God and the beliefs of God and the teachings, take the time and effort to learn Hebrew. This way there should be no arguments or several translations for people to argue over. Seeing as the Hebrew Bible was the Bible Jesus used and learned from, this makes the most sense to me. The Bible wasn't broken, so it shouldn't have been translated. We as a people should have been taught how to read it upon discovery. I say through translation, the telephone game was played with the Bible and its teachings. I myself don't know Hebrew and would love to learn. Voted up, useful, beautiful, awesome, and interesting.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Amethystraven

Thanks again for you very thoughtful comments

glad you can dig where I'm coming from


Havey 4 years ago

vveasey

Why are you asking a question a second time that Dave has already answered?

I understand your sensitivity with Dave's initial starting point as it makes you look like something you did not say. I get that.

But didn't he clarify what his intent really was the second time he wrote to you?

If he would of apologized for saying the phrase, "If God's Holy Spirit is not real," and stated it the following way,

vveasey

re: "The problem is that the in Old Testament there appears to be no reference (at least, not to my awareness) to God as being a trinity or three beings in one."

The Holy Spirit is talked about in Genesis.

GENESIS: 1:2; states: "And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

You might also like to look at Genesis:41:38 Exodus:31:3; Judges:6:34 just to name a few scriptures that establishes the fact that the Holy Spirit of God exists.

As for Jesus the Son, you might wish to look at these Old Testament references

Numbers: 23:19; Isaiah:7:14; Isaiah:9:6; Ezekiel:2:1; and many more; these all refer to "The Son of Man" which Jesus referred to himself as in the Gospels.

Therefore what you claim here goes against God's Holy Word The Bible.

Would you have been able to address the scriptures and the question he raises?

Not to mention who Christ said He was, Christ did not equate himself from being a different god, and ends up being the offering for the sins of mankind, thus allowing for the reconciliation through atonement of our sin with God so that a relationship can be renewed.

Thus the Son of Man, and the Spirit of God were indicated in the Old Testament.

So who do you say you are?

You are not a Christian correct?

Would you happen to be Jewish or are you an atheist or agnostic?

Or do you consider yourself a "free thinker" in the ways of Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche?

The reason I ask is that some will treat the scriptures as philosophy and others treat the scriptures as the Holy Word of God.

I am interesting in talking to anyone who is in search of the Truth, which is Christ, but not so interested in those who still seek to crucify Him so to speak.


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Havey

Thanks for your comments

I don't see where Dave addressed my question to him in his second post.

Maybe you're more favorable to Dave's views...I don't know..I'm just saying....

Here's my take on Dave. Dave seems to so negatively affected by this hub he can't see striaght and says,

"vveasey: If God's Holy Spirit is not real, How do you explain then GENESIS: 1:2; where it states: "And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Dave asked a question about something I didn't say or imply.

then quotes various scriptures to "prove" to me that God spirit is real.

Can somebody say discombobulated?

Don't you think it appropriate that I ask Dave to point out where I say God's Holy Spirit is not real?

Or maybe you think I should just let him rant nonsense because he may be negatively affected by this hub?

What old testament scripture says that God is a trinity?

I'm a truther and don't follow anyone


Havey 4 years ago

Re: "Can somebody say discombobulated?"

I am sure they can.

Re: "Don't you think it appropriate that I ask Dave to point out where I say God's Holy Spirit is not real?"

Where did I say it was inappropriate to ask Dave?

Re: "Or maybe you think I should just let him rant nonsense because he may be negatively affected by this hub?"

Where did I say that?

I think I would suggest addressing the scriptures he brought up in light of your original comments, thus contrasting the Son of Man, and the Holy Spirit references in the Old Testament?

Thus his response, "Also you write that in the old testament there is no reference to God being three persons.

I gave you scripture to point out that scripture in the old testament exists."

That didn't sound like a rant and he seemed refocused did he not?

Re: "What old testament scripture says that God is a trinity?"

Did Dave say there was a scripture that used the word trinity, or did he provide some of the scriptures that give evidences to the Son of man (Christ) and God's spirit, which forms the trinity?

Is trinity the word you are hung up on?

Why is it so important for Dave to address your question that you address him the second time, in the context that he told you why he wrote what he wrote?

What is a truther and if they do follow anyone or if it is you that doesn't follow anyone, is it safe to say you do not follow Christ?

So truther, Is Christ your Lord and Savior?

Is Christ, God in the flesh?

Since the Son of Man, who is Christ, states, "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." would that not be a scripture that provides evidence of the Father and the Son being one?

Was this indeed why Christ was crucified?

For in Matthew 26:59-68 it states,

59 Now the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus, so that they might put Him to death.

60 They did not find any, even though many false witnesses came forward. But later on two came forward,

61 and said, "This man stated, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and to rebuild it in three days.'"

62 The high priest stood up and said to Him, "Do You not answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?"

63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God."

64 Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, "He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy;

66 what do you think?" They answered, "He deserves death!"

67 Then they spat in His face and beat Him with their fists; and others slapped

Him,

68 and said, "Prophesy to us, You Christ; who is the one who hit You?"

Yet "Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.""

Did not Christ say, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."

What is Christ fulfilling?


vveasey profile image

vveasey 4 years ago from Detroit,MI Author

Havey

thanks for your comments

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