Is there anybody there, or is it just a demon?

Ephesians 6 - 10:13

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.

Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 

One of Satan's better party tricks is to be the best video hire company in the world, whatever 'turns you on' he can supply it.

If Hollywood can do it with CGI, then Satan can definitely do it with spiritual power and manifestations.

A few years ago people would never have imagined the special effects that Hollywood can produce, now we accept the antics in Heroes as normal, (and some folk even believe its true) and SpiderMan leaping from buildings is tame.

I guess that Hollywood 'reality' finally caught up with their bosses abilities, Satan: for he IS the Prince of the World, and Hollywood is not promoting God, but New Age imagery and beliefs.

Get involved in spiritualism and Satan will feed you all the life experiences you wish, via 'mediums' who will give you surprisingly detailed information about dead people you knew.

How do they do that?

Simple really, at some point in time they 'opened' themselves to demonic spirits and allowed those spirits to use their minds and bodies to carry out Satan's wishes on earth.

We all get approached by both sides of the spiritual divide, normally around the time that puberty starts to happen, the time when our innocence is liable to start disappearing as our lust for the things offered by the world starts to take over our thinking.

The time when our hormones start controlling our lives.

So we (or the medium) shows an interest in the wildly exciting occult world, when the spirit form approached them, and they gained more 'power' as they progressed 'up' the spiritual ladder from interest to belief to devotion.

For me the journey started at eleven years of age, when I accepted a spirit guide who told me he was my grandfather, there to take care of me.

The journey lasted 30 years and took me through many interesting things and experiences, but finally led me to find my peace in Christ ALONE.

I say that because there are many 'Christs' out there saying "here I am, come hither" during these end times, and they will accommodate just about any image that you want to put on them.

They are all demonic counterfeits just waiting to lure the non discerning into the wonderful world of the pantheist new age movement, where anything goes; except faith and trust in the Christ of the bible.

Dueteronomy 18 10:14

There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft,or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.

You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.

For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you.

God has good reasons for telling us not to get involved with the occult world, for we are novices in spiritual events, at least when we start out exploring our spirituality.

This makes us easily deceived, and can lead to a lifetime of demonic deception in our lives, keeping us from having a relationship with Christ, and held in bondage, to Satan, bound to be his property for eternity and to suffer the same fate as he will.

Of course Satan knows this well and unlike God, Satan does do party tricks, from moving glasses in the sleepover Ouija board 'games' to telling you what the dearly departed want you to know. 

"But the medium had never met me" I hear people tell me.

They don't need to know you, the spirit operating in them knows you....and the spirit operating in you.

Satan can know the history of the deceased, for their fate and history is now sealed, and he or his minions can easily confer these tit bits of information to you via the medium, if that will enslave you to their cause.

Satan's cause is to keep you away from Christ.

You can be a choir boy all your life, never do any deliberate harm, be the nicest person I will ever meet.

If Satan has managed to stop you having a personal relationship with Christ, and receiving the Holy Spirit as your guide, because you have been deceived into accepting one of his demonic apparitions as a friendly guide to help you along, you are lost.

1 Samuel 28 - 3:17

....Samuel had died, and all Israel had lamented for him and buried him in Ramah, in his own city.

Saul had put the mediums and the spiritists out of the land.

Then the Philistines gathered together, and came and encamped at Shunem.

So Saul gathered all Israel together, and they encamped at Gilboa. When Saul saw the army of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart trembled greatly.

And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.

Then Saul said to his servants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.”

And his servants said to him, “In fact, there is a woman who is a medium at En Dor.”

So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Please conduct a seance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you.”

Then the woman said to him, “Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?”

And Saul swore to her by the LORD, saying, “As the LORD lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.”

Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”

And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”

When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!”

And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”

And the woman said to Saul, “I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth.”

So he said to her, “What is his form?”

And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.”

And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.

Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

And Saul answered, “I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do.”

Then Samuel said: “So why do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy?

And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David.

King Saul, the first king of Israel, lost everything because he disobeyed Gods commands to him, when he spared an evil king who God had commanded should be annihilated with ALL of his people, and even all his animals.

That alone provides many folk with the ammunition to call God a sadistic murderer, and if King Amalek, who Saul had spared, had been other than a throughly evil king, leading a totally evil tribe of people, maybe that would be correct, but God had tried to get those people to stop their evil acts for several generations, they were a cancer on the society of the time, and cancers need to be dealt with if they will not respond to treatment.

But I understand how Satan's demons use these incidents to worm their way into the natural mind, a mind that is naturally rebellious against any authority, and has probably heard the bible message in less than favorable conditions, presented by people who possibly do not represent the best examples of Christianity.

Certainly my Sunday School teachings were enough to turn my mind from God.

But I digress, for Saul certainly did know God and indeed had a special relationship with Him until he started making his decisions rather than obeying Gods commandments.

That's pretty dumb, especially as whilst Saul was obeying God things went from good to better with every step the Israelites took, but we all get complacent and believe the lie that we are better able to run our lives than God.

Then one day Saul finds a strong army camped outside his tents, and ready to start fighting the Israelis, but where once God would have told Saul exactly how to deal with the problem, now God is silent, and I get the impression that Saul kinda knew God had sent the army to show Saul that he was gonna get whupped for being disobedient.

So having found himself cut off from Gods favor, Saul made his really bad mistake, because rather than seek Gods forgivemenss and repent for his errors, Saul consulted the witch of Endor.

Speaking personally I would have stayed home and got down on my face before God, and indeed when I have been stupid enough to cut myself off from Gods guidance, that's exactly what I have done.

God is a God of second chances, and indeed Christ tells us to forgive 7 x 70 times.... per day, to those who sin against us, so I guess we can see that God is BIG in the forgiving department.

But you need to accept your sin and ask for His mercy.

Mercy triumphs over Judgement.

This is really important, because if you reading this have bought into Satans lies and been deceived, those demons you picked up will be itching fit to bust right now, just knowing that you are hearing about a kind and merciful God who forgives will set them off, and if you have been feeling kinda quesy for a while, listen up, becuase you are probably infested with those little demon spirits that you have allowed into your life in the past.

You need to get rid of them.

If you look at the way Christ handled His ministry, you will see that although He healed the sick, gave sight to the blind and mobility to the lame, he first cleared them of their demons BEFORE He set about reclaiming their lives for them.

Too often in our local churches there is nobody capable or willing to take someone though what is called deliverance.

I understand that, and indeed if I ever meet anyone who tells me they have a full time deliverance ministry I probably will steer clear of them, because deliverance is like clearing a minefield or defusing unexploded bombs with built in triggers.... you can get hurt if there is ANY chink in the armor of God that can allow the enemy into your life with authority.

But it is a part of what we need to do as Christs disciples, and along with all the other things Christ told us to do in His name, deliverance, or ejecting demons, is part of the works we need to do.

Click thumbnail to view full-size
If you consult with spirits, ask yourself where the 'power' comes from, it's clear from Gods word that He does not do 'seances' or use any spirit other than the Holy Spirit to communicate with His people.So using a crystal ball will not get you to into contact with God...and standing in circles holding hands will not connect you with Christ or God, so WHO are you conjoining with?If you've seen this or similar, you need to get cleaned out and start again.Some people 'see' spirits... but who is manifesting them to be seen? Not God I can assure you.Oprah is well known as a new age goddess, but that seems not to matter to the most powerful man in the world.......and famous film stars worship eastern religions that have no connection with God or Christ...but have some pretty nifty artworks!
If you consult with spirits, ask yourself where the 'power' comes from, it's clear from Gods word that He does not do 'seances' or use any spirit other than the Holy Spirit to communicate with His people.
If you consult with spirits, ask yourself where the 'power' comes from, it's clear from Gods word that He does not do 'seances' or use any spirit other than the Holy Spirit to communicate with His people.
So using a crystal ball will not get you to into contact with God
So using a crystal ball will not get you to into contact with God
...and standing in circles holding hands will not connect you with Christ or God, so WHO are you conjoining with?
...and standing in circles holding hands will not connect you with Christ or God, so WHO are you conjoining with?
If you've seen this or similar, you need to get cleaned out and start again.
If you've seen this or similar, you need to get cleaned out and start again.
Some people 'see' spirits... but who is manifesting them to be seen? Not God I can assure you.
Some people 'see' spirits... but who is manifesting them to be seen? Not God I can assure you.
Oprah is well known as a new age goddess, but that seems not to matter to the most powerful man in the world....
Oprah is well known as a new age goddess, but that seems not to matter to the most powerful man in the world....
...and famous film stars worship eastern religions that have no connection with God or Christ...
...and famous film stars worship eastern religions that have no connection with God or Christ...
but have some pretty nifty artworks!
but have some pretty nifty artworks!

So if you have been fooling around with the occult, or exploring new age religions, dabbling in spiritualism, looking to find out what your 'past life' experiences have been, or in general doing all the things that God tells us is dumb to do, because it gives Satan legal authority to trash your life, and stops you having a relationship with the REAL Christ.

Then it's time to stop and take a serious look at how you got where you are, and whether you really want to take that pathway to an as yet undefined destination.

Remember, ALL Satan needs to do is keep you diverted for the few years that we walk this earth and he has won your soul for eternity, and you can suffer with him.

Take a look at all his names, you will recognize him if you have been involved with his minions, from the effects that you will see in your life.

He is a master of deception and lies, his biggest deception on the world was to persuade them that he does not exist, but if you have his 'cancer' forming in your body and soul, you will recognize the symptoms if you look for them, and the earlier you deal with them and purge them from your life, the easier it will be to find the true inner peace and contentment that we seek for in all the wrong places..

Are you at risk?

Have you ever dabbles in the occult or new age religions?

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96 comments

aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 4 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi LittleMonkeyFace, glad you enjoyed the read, closed minded is not something I hear often, having tried most things in life, but if I have closed my mind, it is closed against spiritual enemies.


LittleMonkeyFace profile image

LittleMonkeyFace 4 years ago from Germany

closed-minded.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

If you are a regenerated, Holy Spirit filled believer, you would know, in the same way that a bank teller knows a counterfeit note.... not by studying counterfeits, but by knowing, from constant relationship, the REAL thing.

Plus (in my case) I lived with spirits from the other team for a long while, so I could spot the difference immediately....

....and also (as I think about it) the Holy Spirit will ALWAYS instruct you in line with scripture, whereas Satan's little helpers tend to be 'Satan whisperers' (see my hub of the same name):

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Satan-...

But nice try anyway....

John


dliske 6 years ago

For those enlightened souls out there I have a question. Is the invocation of the holy ghost acceptable or not? I am of course speaking about the full blown speaking in tongues holy ghost thing. Of course the follow up question would be, for those of you who feel it is acceptable, how would you know it was the holy ghost and not some less then holy ghost?


Sa`ge profile image

Sa`ge 6 years ago from Barefoot Island

@ AquaSilver. great hub with lots of bible scripture, keep up the good work!

@dliske you tried! This is not an open discussion here! :)just one opinion agreed upon. A truth is a truth to the believer of that truth. Therefore it becomes a closed issue! or one that keeps dragging it's heels to make it's point to all! Oh my, i feel a hub coming! ~aloha~


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Dliske...

Matthew 12:24-27 (King James Version)

24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

25And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

I don't find Christ casting out in Satans name here, I see the Pharisees trying to infer that He was demonic, which is a very different reading of the scripture.

When anyone 'casts out' demons, they do it in the name of Christ, He obviously had no need to call upon any other power, for there was (and still is not) any authority higher than His.

Saul was wrong, he should have known better, but David was a friend of Gods, whereas Saul was just a King.

Any time we allow demons access to this world we invite trouble, they are worse than herpes, except that you can get rid of demons.

"Was Jesus originally against the occult? Or was he just against doing wrong?"

Both is the answer, because the occult is wrong in any case however you look at it. There are no 'good' occultists, only misguided ones.

But thanks for commenting and taking the time to read my hub.

John


dliske 6 years ago

I don't expect to change anyone's opinions here, but the bible is rife with saints and even Jesus performing magick practices using occult approaches:

Take Mathew 12:24-27 Here you have Jesus binding a demon, but notice how he binds the demon, buy using not the name of god or the power of angles, or of his own god child status, but buy using another higher Demon Beelzebub. This practice of binding demons by other demons is an occult practice. Or take king Solomon, who I believe is still in good standing historically speaking with the church. All that guy did was summon, conjure and spend time with infernal spirits. (Now he did these occult workings with good intent, but he still did them) So, was he evil for what he did?

I guess what I am saying is, before Christianity became a formal religion it was much more spiritual in nature, Also, much of the teachings of Jesus which did not pass the canonization process where also more Eastern/Spiritual in tone. Concepts like god is within us all etc. (Literally we are gods not god is above us) were part of Jesus's teachings according to some ancient documents which were left on the cutting room floor.

So, I leave you with this question. Was Jesus originally against the occult? Or was he just against doing wrong?


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Thank you Granny...

Stay Blessed,

John


Granny's House profile image

Granny's House 6 years ago from Older and Hopefully Wiser Time

Great hub. Very powerful. A must read


tim kenner profile image

tim kenner 6 years ago from Greater Orange County

John, your work has really assisted me in my trial, I want to be free, the last several years have been dreadfull spiritually, Your hub is awesome!!! Thanks John


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Gene, if this is 'new to you' then you will be spiritual dynamite when you mature!

John


Just Passing Thru 6 years ago

No John, certainly not addressed to you, I apologize for my faux pas, I lurk most of the time and participate very little in public forums like this, I don't argue with people who don't believe what's written in the Bible so in trying to not point the finger there was confusion, my bad for not saying "those of you who claim demons don't exist."

As you can see from what I wrote I became kinda excited to read some of the ridiculous and absurd responses that have been posted, it's just when someone says things like that, to us who have had personal experiences with them, ...it's like saying there isn't any ocean or there isn't any oxygen in the atmosphere.

Please have patience with my inept and debutant way of writing, this is new to me.

Gene


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Gene, a powerful testimony indeed, and I guess your closing comments are not addressed to me,for I surely know demons do exist.

I never stop incoming comments, and there are many here, but my replies are always with my name on.

We will continue I think!

Stay Blessed,

John


Just Passing Thru 6 years ago

Satan and his Demons not real, then what are we here for, who’s the enemy?

Who was Paul talking about in this verse concerning the work Jesus did on/with the cross, “having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Testimony time, back in the late ‘60s during the hippy movement I smoked grass and dropped acid. When we would start to get high we were always waiting for our guide to drop by and guide us, there would be a ‘ripple’ in the room and there they were, right before us, they guided all of our ‘trips.’ Something we always found interesting was when ever we drove by this particular cemetery there were lots of ‘guides’ hanging out there, they would even wave to us as we passed. As we progressed from the laughing stage into the more deeper ‘trips’ we became obsessed with death, it started out with animals and then it progressed to killing the ones in our group that we didn’t like, we would watch them as their body jerked and twitched laughing all of the time, it was just so funny to watch someone die. January 5 1969 it was my turn, they OD’ed me with a very potent form of acid, I knew I was dying I could feel the nerves in my extremities shutting down, my muscles were losing there power to function, my legs could no longer hold me up so I was supporting myself with my arms locked against my body while leaning over a table, behind me the room didn’t exist, it had been replaced with a gulf, a large hole had opened up and I knew ‘instinctively’ at the bottom was Hell. I could hear this maniacal laughing, even my guide was there laughing along with the rest of them, when I asked him ‘why’ he just laughed and said, “You know.” I knew at that instant that the guides would kill all of us; it was just a matter of time. My arms gave out, I started to fall backwards into the hole, I was raised in a cult, and the only thing I knew was God was called Father, so as I was falling backwards I cried out “Father.” Forty-five minutes into peaking on acid and at the mention of His name he gave me back my life, I was instantly straight, something that modern medicine can’t do even to this day. The haze cleared, it was warm in the room whereas it had been numbing cold, I walked out of the room I was in and on my left was the front door, I opened it and as I was walking out I heard in my heart God say, “I’ll talk to you later.”

I struggled with depression and paranoia for fifteen years after that before my pride was broken and at a Wednesday night Bible Study in the month of July in 1986 my Lord used Isaiah 40:5-8 to call this wretched sinner into His Kingdom.

Demons don’t exist, ha, with all due respect you are naive and you are a prime target to be/are deceived, demons are real, many have experienced them, but even more important than that is …GOD said they are real in His Word.

Gene


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Thank you Henrietta, you are welcome any time.

I believe our job is to illustrate the questions that we all need to answer.


Henrietta Chloe profile image

Henrietta Chloe 6 years ago from Manila, Philippines

I'm not very religious (I do keep my faith) but your hub made me stop and reflect on certain stuff. I also found some of the pictures really creepy. Anyway, I agree with what you mentioned in your comment - simply present people the facts and let them choose for themselves. Awesome hub!


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Thank you Lady S,

The next part of the hub will deal with the deliverance side more thoughroughly.... and I agree, it's not an area for those who have weak hearts of faith nor spirits that are less than broken and contrite.

But it is an area where one sees the full power of Gods Holy Spirit at work in our human lives, and where the power of the enemy is shattered and shown for the sham that it is.

All kudos to God!


Lady Summerset profile image

Lady Summerset 6 years ago from Willingboro, New Jersey

Kudos, enjoyed the hub! Deliverance is the key element in your hub. For the spirit (demon) job is to keep the host from interaction with the saving power of Jesus Christ and Him only!

Having participated in many "deliverance sessions," I can say that it is definitely not for the weak of heart and spirit.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

TLMinut - I agree with Sanctus, but have other stuff to say as well, I will either email you or put it into another hub.

Any authority given to Satan needs to be cancelled and dealt with, for the authority stands against us until it is dealt with.

It must be handled carefully, i.e. in principal the enemy is aware that your friend is aware that she may have a problem, so any move to start dealing with the problem will result in attack.

When I was 'cusping' (coming out of the occult and looking towards Christ) there were several situations that happened that could have been fatal.

Satan is playing for keeps, and as soon as someone is identified as a potential asset for God, Satan will try to first lure them back into his fold, then try to dissuade them with events, and as a final resort try to kill them or get them to take their own life.

At one point in time I was driving back down the N340, the most dangerous road in Europe at the time, stoned and drunk with my hands off the wheel, speeding and dancing the car with my knees, and singing along to 'Sympathy for the devil' without a care if I died or not.

This is serious stuff, there are no games involved, anybody who has extended authorities to the enemy needs experienced assistance in breaking free.


SirDent 6 years ago

I think I know what all the hype is about. I wonder how many who have been diagnosed with cancer would like their doctor to tell them to just take a couple apirins every day for a month.

When you weed a garden, it is best to pull the weeds up by the roots. This way you get rid of everything associated with the weed.

TL, Sanctus gave very good advice. Satan knows more about you than you probably know about yourself. He knows how to get the attention of anyone who is not prepared properly to discern spirits.


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

TLMinut - It's not impossible for a demon to take the form of a loved one; nor is it impossible for them to create manifestations of that loved one.


TLMinut profile image

TLMinut 6 years ago

I have a friend who has had to deal with this - she's consulted mediums and believes what they tell her. She knows now that the Bible says to stay away from it all but she just asked me recently what she's supposed to do when 'spirits of dead people' come to her. I have no experience with this so I didn't really know what to tell her.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Yes, so read it tantrum... and don't judge a book by it's cover!!


tantrum profile image

tantrum 6 years ago from Tropic of Capricorn

Are you for legalizing drugs ? If not ,I won't read it ! LOLOL!!! :)


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Sanctus,

I know that there is nothing in the hub that could bring it down, but still people try to do so.

It's good to know that this hub has hit hard at the demons that inhabit the unaware and those with occult leanings.


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

This hub can't be taken down; it doesn't attack anyone, but only an idea.

I've told others this, but the problem with people and ideas? The ideas tend to become so ingrained into a person that when you attack it, you 'attack' the person as well.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Over The Hill and Vladimir Uhri I thank you both, especially when the 'opposition' is busy trying to get the hub 'taken down'- which is to be expected I guess, given the subject matter.

Thanks again, if you support the hub, please rate it and share it with anybody who you think may be helped by it's content.

Thanks again,

John


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 6 years ago from HubPages, FB

agua, thanks for your hub. Devil and demons distort anything they can. This is their "job".

One do not have to know person, it is easy to judge according to their fruit.

To say there are not demons or Satan, means they make Jesus a lair.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

...and I'm glad to see you, and you not commenting is probably a compliment! ----- spared the wrath of tantrum.

Glad we are still friends, you see opposites can attract!

Thanks for reading, have you read the other hub about legalizing drugs?


tantrum profile image

tantrum 6 years ago from Tropic of Capricorn

LOLOL!! Hi my friend ! I have to say that thanks to lady Guinevere,I'm here! Interesting hub!I'm not going to comment. Passing by to say 'Hello!'


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Batman,

So I guess that what you are saying is that the God of Creation, who is all powerful, ever present and all knowing was not able to provide His people with a bible that was sufficient to provide guidance and knowledge to His people.

Furthermore with yourself having confirmed that the scripts were written by many different men, over a period of centuries, most of whom never knew or met each other, you find it to be left to the hands of mere men to ensure that this book, which as 63 books still collectively forms a cohesive all inclusive work, is less than reliable.

Would that be correct?

I prefer to stand on the word of God, and I have no doubt that the original Hebraic text agrees with the modern Hebraic text and the English translations.

Apologies if you don't like what God says, but I suggest take it up with Him, on your knees would be fine, on your face would be better.


Batman Street Wolf 6 years ago

People who quote the Bible should understand who wrote it, when they wrote it, and why. The Bible was written over a period of over a thousand years by hundreds of unknown editors. It was written in Hebrew, then translated into Greek and Latin, then finally English. So you are not actually quoting God's words because God spoke in Hebrew. The English language did not even exist at the time Deuteronomy was written.


Make  Money profile image

Make Money 6 years ago from Ontario

This is a well needed hub John. Yeah in Mark 3:13-19 we see that Jesus gave His apostles the power to cast out devils. Up to about 40 or so years ago there was at least one exorcist in every Catholic diocese. In an interview that was aired on TV I watched the top Vatican exorcist, Father Gabriele Amorth say the reason there is not an exorcist in every Catholic diocese now is because the bishops thought there was no need for them. But 82 year old Father Amorth initiated the Pope to order his bishops to have in his diocese a number of priests trained to fight demonic possession. The Vatican is concerned with an increased interest in the occult. Father Amorth said the Pope wants to restore a prayer to St. Michael the Archangel, seen as protection against evil that was traditionally recited at the end of the Catholic Mass. The prayer was dropped in the 1960s by Pope John XXIII. I have a hub about angel prayers with this St. Michael the Archangel prayer on it, I say it every day.

Just a bit of a heads up John, it seems there's a little call in the forums to have this hub taken down. That's how I found your hub. :-)

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/32160?page=4

I don't think you have much to be concerned about though. Although you never know around here these days. I was banned from posting in the forums 5 days ago for posting non-commercial religious links in the Religion & Beliefs forum. Even links to the Bible and blocks of text were deleted. To get my forum access reinstated I have to pledge to never post any links in the forums again. Fat chance that's going to happen seeing we see HP members post links in the forums every day. I don't like being discriminated against. My last forum post is on this thread.

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/30381?page=10

Mike


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

I think there's another part to definition too, or the part that says 'to learn from experience'. Jesus told his learners to be as wise as serpents, and the 'learn from experience' would be a huge part of it.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi SirDent, Judah's Daughter, gracenotes and Sanctus....

SirDent, I'll get to the hub later, the enemy is fighting back this morning, as we awoke at 6.30 am to the sound of a kitchen floor cupboard crashing forward to discharge crockery and foodstuffs over the kitchen..... we rejoice! for now I can get to buy new crockery when finances permit!!

Judah, very perceptive, like moths they get drawn to the candle, and that is good, especially if any of them would realize who and what is pulling their strings....

I now know the basis for the next hub....

gracenotes, we all belong here and thank you for having the courage for going where perhaps you have not trodden before, it's for believers like yourself, who may not have had much contact with darkness, that people like me were saved to write for! - your comment is valuable and thanks again for posting it, now just tell me that you have confessed and repented to God for your youthful indiscrepancy, for Satan will hold long accounts with folk and will not send you late payment reminders, he just likes to foreclose when he can, so make sure that your account with him has been fully closed and sealed with Christ's stamp 'Paid IN FULL'....

Sanctus, "'to hiss, to whisper an incantation, to practice divination, to learn from experience, to prognosticate'"

Your right, and I was one that did not know, I will research further.... thanks for the email, I will get back on that as well!

There is obviously more scope for a continuation to this hub, for I am writing more in the comments than I did in the hub....


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

Hello John, just a little something else I wanted to share. As you've mentioned earlier in these comments a person's source of power can only come from two places, either the Holy Spirit, or Satan.

Satan as most are aware is the ancient serpent, but what many don't know is that the Hebrew word for serpent 'nahash' is also the same word used for 'to hiss, to whisper an incantation, to practice divination, to learn from experience, to prognosticate'

Satan was always the first sorcerer, and anyone else involved with magic is only imitating him.


gracenotes profile image

gracenotes 6 years ago from North Texas

I'm a Christian believer, but I am not sure whether I belong here. This discussion has been so intense that I feel like a girl scout knocking on your door, interrupting you to ask, "Please, sir, would you like to buy a box of mint chocolate cookies?"

As a little girl (about 11 years old) I visited with my cousins. They owned a ouija board. Out of ignorance, we girls played with it, and I remember my sister and I asking it to spell out the names of our dolls, which it did. But that was only a passing fancy, and I never encountered one again. Besides that, I had some strong, godly spiritual influences around me, growing up, and for a long time after, I've had enough discernment to know better than to mess with occult things. Frankly, I think I know how the ouija board works, but the devil can take advantage of the situation too readily, and use it for his own evil designs. That's the dangerous part.

I think the Lord was showing grace and mercy toward a bunch of clueless kids during our play sessions. Praise Him!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

I just can't get over how this subject has actually "drawn" those affected by the darkness ~ just an observation. Praise God both dark and light are here ~ for His work is being accomplished, brother John. God bless you!!


SirDent 6 years ago

Welcome to the pit Aqua. It will get worse before it gets better, just so you know. As far as judging goes, I wrote about about it months ago.

http://hubpages.com/hub/JudgeNotLestYeBeJudged


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Misty,

I know you have said you will not return to read the comments, but I will reply anyway, for those who will.

I never started this hub to cause anybody distress.

As I have stated twice already, it was inspired by a link from Lady G's hub to another hubber who went from Catholicism to Eastern Religion and made some strong claims along the way.

Lady G came to my comments and made a case for her viewpoint, putting links to her hubs into my comments, which I approved, as I welcome folk to check what I say against comparative argument.

Most of the people who have commented here are biblical believers, i.e. they do accept the bible as fact and live by it's word.

For that reason, when someone states what is considered heresy, then they have the right to challenge the given heresy and reject it.

The reason for this is not to gang up on the person stating heresy, but to (hopefully) bring them back to a non heretical interpretation of scripture, i.e. correct the heresy.

Many people read our hubs, and some of them are biblical believers, others are at varying stages of belief from new in the faith to novice to no belief whatsoever, and of course pagans and those involved in occult religions.

I see the task of a publishing believer to correctly discern and present the scriptures and to provide information as to how they should be viewed by us in todays world.

You make comment about the KJV, however, the verses refering to demons and other occult activity were first written in Deuteronomy in the Torah, which is reproduced with virtually no change from the original in any modern bible, or indeed in the Jewish Torah printed today.

The warnings about not being involved with occultism practices are clear for all to understand:

Deuteronomy 18

There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.

For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD, and because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.

You shall be blameless before the LORD your God.

For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the LORD your God has not appointed such for you

My question to each and every person who practises these things is a simple one:

Where does the power that you work within come from?

I have never had an answer, not in print, nor radio, nor TV interviews/debates, not even in private conversation, for they know that they need to admit that they don't want to know who is empowering them, or they don't want to admit that they do know.

But nobody has ever said "from the God of the bible."

You say that " I also do not have a problem with good quality Medium's and Psychics, nor do I see any evidence of any evil in them, or anything that would benefit evil from their actions, (that is unless evil can benefit from consoling the bereaved and proving the existence of life after death to the living)."

You may not see any evil in them, and I have known many and in past times been associated with many, and at that time I never saw the evil either, for I was a fellow traveller, with my rune stones, tarot cards and divination.

I ask the same question, one which I answer in this hub.

All spiritual power originates from only one of two places:

Either from God, who dispenses that power via His Holy Spirit....

Or from Satan, who holds power in this world over ALL those who do not belong to God.

Deuteronomy 18 makes it abundantly clear that God does not condone nor provide power for these occult practices, so the ONLY source possible to gain power from, other than God; is Satan, who is a liar and deceiver and will happily (with glee) tell the bereaved and and those seeking to establish the existence of life after death whatever lies they wish to hear (and even the truth if it makes them more beholden)in order to keep separated those seekers from finding God and Christ.

We are in a war here on earth, and it's not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

I for one will not shirk the battle, nor allow the enemy (which is not flesh and blood) to gain ground by letting Satan and his minions lie and deceive the gullible and those of little or no faith.

If this offends those who practice occult things, then sobeit, for it is they who take offence, and that normally due to their personal demons (devils) getting agitated by being exposed.

New Age religions are basically pantheism regurgitated to fit the current trends and are not from God nor have anything to do with God... as for pagans and wiccans being older that Christianity, well my bible tells me that Christ was present with God when the world was formed, so you don't get to predate that.

Remember, the bible is the history of the world, past, present and future, it was written with full knowledge that in these end days, some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron.... we are there now.

The point about not judging is referring to judgement between believers, and there is a fairly established opinion as to who constitutes a believer:

John 3

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

So judging people against that criterion is not wrong in Christianity, for if someone does NOT meet that criterion, then the bible itself judges them and God confirms the judgement.

Should you read this and wish to respond, feel free, the comments box will remain open to civilized commentary irrespective of whether it concurs with my considerations.

Now I have virtually written another hub just dealing with the comments....but that is fine, for souls are at stake here and if even one person is rescued from the deception of the occult, then it will be worthwhile.

I was pulled from the flames myself, it's a subject dear to my heart.


mistyhorizon2003 profile image

mistyhorizon2003 6 years ago from Guernsey (Channel Islands)

LG also wrote to me, and if I were to give her advice it would be to save her breath, as just like in a religious forum neither side will ever back down or concede any ground.

I avoid getting into these kinds of debates for a good reason, and that is that it rapidly becomes way more stressful than it is worth, and this is also why I will not be returning to this hub after I leave this post. What I will say is that I do actually believe there is such a thing as demons, although I can't say totally what they are other than evil entities, nor can I claim to know where they come from, but I have seen enough convincing evidence of their existence, at least in some cases.

However, I also do not have a problem with good quality Medium's and Psychics, nor do I see any evidence of any evil in them, or anything that would benefit evil from their actions, (that is unless evil can benefit from consoling the bereaved and proving the existence of life after death to the living).

No I don't think Ouija boards are a good idea as they tend to attract mischievous spirits and I for one would avoid them.

To condemn New Age Religions I feel is wrong, as many of them have their roots in ancient religions such as Paganism which was around way before Christianity, and can claim ownership of most Christian symbols, stories and holidays, e.g. the cross, Easter, Yule (Christmas now), Virgin births, rising from the dead etc.

So to summarise, there are parts of both side's arguments that I agree and disagree with, but I am not going to resort to bullying and a "witchhunt" to make a point which seems very cruel and un-Christianlike behaviour. Nor am I willing to say I think it is acceptable to be baiting someone and trying to annoy them by telling them they "need to be saved". None of us mere mortals are qualified to say such a thing, and nor can we reliably quote the Bible as it was written by men, not God, and as I have said before, is therefore open to mistranslation, misinterpretation and manipulation, (as was proven by King James deciding how he felt it should read, and then getting it altered dramatically to read as he felt it should, this is partly why I set no great store by the Bible's words).

Can I suggest that in the interest of peace and love everyone remembers to treat others as they would like to be treated themselves and stop behaving like a gang of playground bullies.

No-one will know for sure who is right until they die, so let's just wait and see shall we?


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

The Bible also makes it clear that the pagan gods are actually demons. I've heard before that they're actually idols with a demon behind them, but I do believe in the former.

I've read this book; 'A Dictionary of Angels (Including the Fallen Ones)' which lists a number of angels and demons. In the case of the latter it also states which gods or goddesses said demons were linked to.

It may be important to note that the KJV has demons translated as 'devils'.


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 6 years ago from Arizona

Demons all through the book of Mathew were cast out by Jesus:

Matthew 4:24, Matthew 8:16,Matthew 8:28, to about 18 instances does the subject of demons arise.It continues on through Mark. To ease your effort here is a link so you might read from the Bible and see if you disagree that demons exist,

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=demon&...

That ends my work on this subject, and if you think the Bible is in error I wish you well on your journey and that your eyes and ears be opened to hear and see the truth as presented in the Bible, as in today's times that is where we/I must lay our/my faith as it is what Jesus presented as my guide and I accept it as it is.

God Bless


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Mark,

I will not get into any debate with you on Lady G or how Christian we all are standing on the word of God, but I will obviously post you mail as it would be churlish not to allow opposition argument, though I note that you probably have not read the hub, so what you are doing is using this opportunity to once again attack me, not comment on the hub.

I openly stated that I wrote this hub in response to NOT the hub by Lady G, but a hub that she linked to from her hub.

I assume I am entitled to set out a response to what I read and believe to be error, as you do every time you write on a forum.

You will also note from the comments that I have not said anything that could cause Lady G to have distress, however she has stated views that the vast majority of the posters have disputed, I do not control that nor would I stop their posts, any more than I would your post (the only two posts I denied were from Lady G and SV and were personal and abusive, not to me, but to each other, and therefore not relevant).

We live in a free world, I support free speech, I accept we hold opposite opinions, so what?

Sandra, thank you for your comment and stating the truth.


sandra rinck 6 years ago

Don't feel too important Mark, she wrote me too soo... the sad thing is that you don't even like LG and you have her believing you are her friend. :(


Mark Knowles profile image

Mark Knowles 6 years ago

Wow - You Christians really are cruel aren't you. Still - no worries - it is not your responsibility I guess. You are just saying it as god says so. LOLOL

You aught to be ashamed of yourselves. Still - no matter who you hurt in this - what is important is "standing in the word." LOL

That way you have zero responsibility and do not need to feel bad who you hurt. After all - they are merely an agent of satan. LOL

Personally - I stand by stating you are scum and by your own ridiculous judgments (I mean god's) you will all be eternally damned.

And I only stopped by because some one you have hurt badly wrote to me.

Me ? I am unhurtable by scutters like you because I can discern your intentions.

What a shame jesus' teachings have been turned into such hate filled garbage.

No worries - you guys are all going to sit at the right hand of god for your generosity of spirit.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Dusty,

I'm not in any way disagreeing with you, but if as you state LG is working as an antichrist, it needs to be established (in the mouths of two or three witnesses) which actually has happened.

I will read her 'evidence' that demons do not exist, however having encountered demons who lived with me, and not physical demons but spiritual demons who I experienced leaving me, I cannot be believe that anyone who does believe demons do not exist, has been deceived by the demons who didn't exist in their opinion.

I believe we are too late in the day for Christ t reveal any new revelation not already written into the bible, and all I or anyone can do is represent the bible in new ways, no addition, no deletion, just standing on the word to defeat those who will try and diminish the power and Majesty of God.

With love to you also brother...


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 6 years ago from Arizona

Hi John,

I enjoyed this hub and was saddened to see one that would tear it down. I have been on hub pages as a reader for the most part, for over a year now. This was the first malicious attack I have seen on anyone. As I hold your experiences high and have gleaned some knowledge from you, it seems I took offense in your stead. Rightly or not? I also took offense to the charge of Christians twisting the word of God to fit their needs or agenda. While I agree that point is valid to some, just not to all. As for "heretic" Christ was called out a heretic by many who attempted to entrap him in his words and actions for a reason to kill him. As we know they did succeed in killing him, but not until the season for it came. He imparted his teachings to us first and they were the teachings of Faith, in order to free us from Old Testament law. That is my interpretation of the readings of Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John. I see no twisting of the word in that, but if there is I am quite open to learn where my mind has taken it wrong.

I have stared into the eyes of those with a demon of a great hold on the person carrying it and it is not lightly that I feel that it is possession that eyes can turn completely black as they verbally stone you, It is quite frightful and I mean that because it is my mother. There are those who say not to judge, but I find recognition and judgment hold a fine line between them selves. I understand that by judging we commit ourselves to the same rule of judgment that we have used. In that I try and judge carefully. In the end here as for demons I may have stumbled into a battle of one trying to fool me into thinking Satan is powerless and/or does not exist. If that were true why would Jesus have bothered to be baptized or teach against him? As for Christ being "God is all love" posted in a reply by LG, that is falling away from biblical teaching and is what gives the heretical comment merit. As you and I both know that God detests certain things,"of and not of", this world, hence the chapter of Revelations where these things will be destroyed and taken from existence as the new kingdom is created for our eternal delight. I understood the offending (to me, though not directly) comment was to the effect that demons here to ambush us into trickery to take our souls do not exist and the word of God has been twisted to meet this as a scare tactic. If I took this as I believe I did, I would call it a heretical stance as well.

With much Love Stay Blessed


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

I thank you...

I am thinking of doing a hub on universal salvation.... any thoughts to share?

If you have probably better via email from my profile...

John


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

Ahh John, learn something new everyday.

Oh, I know you're not! Only pointing out something that many people miss.

A follower of Christ.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Sanctus,

The name is John, aguasilver is a tag from my email address...

Believe me I am not playing around with the occult or demons or those who operate with those areas, I came from there and am well aware of the dangers.

But thank you for the timely warning and I appreciate your concern.

Who do you say I am? (out of interest?)


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

The 9th commandment (Speaking to all here) is 'Thou shalt bear false witness against thy neighbor.'

Here's an example of bearing false witness - 'Bob smokes pot, and he gets drunk all the time.' (Note, Bob has never smoked pot, and has never gotten drunk.)

Bearing false witness is NOT pointing out the obvious. It is not driving down a street at night, seeing a very obvious prostitute, and saying, "Hmmm, that young lady is a prostitute."

Ahh and one last note before I leave for now, Aguasilver. I'm not too sure if you knew of this, but the act of playing around with the occult, and demons is considered a form of spiritual whoredom; especially if the person says they are a Christian.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Dusty, just as subtle as ever I see!

I'm staying in neutral until I have had the opportunity to explore the links that have been posted in the comments, which I have not had time to do yet.

I'm always interested in what heretics present as new fact, for both Christ and Luther were classed as heretics at some point in time, so just because the whole of established religion stands against one, does not make it heretical, though I must admit that anyone who tells me demons are not evil and Satan does not exist, may as well ask me to deny that my mother and father walked the earth and gave birth to me.

But I guess the Sanhedrin felt much the same about Jesus, and the Pope who had to be told about Martin Luther's treatise must have been fuming and fit to burst.

So I will take a look, if only to identify correctly the error if it exists.

This morning when my dog was taking his morning run along the beach, and I was watching him.... I stood on a wooden platform set in the sand to allow for people to shower without standing in the sand, and suddenly I had a small vision of being a sentry standing on guard, and totally aware that if I dropped my guard then I would or could be a dead sentry, because that's what happens to inefficient or sleepy sentry's.

Then God took me to the passage about watchmen on the walls, and as to how the watchman needs to sound the call loud and clear in order that the people may be warned.

Well the watchman (and a sentry) has to have the discernment to differentiate between an enemy approaching and a friend, which is why we cry 'friend or foe'.

In this spiritual vein we need to examine the approaching delegation to decide if they are friend or foe, heretic or new revelation, and always be ready to challenge and warn and destroy any enemy (of God) who would seek to enter Gods kingdom and destroy or divide.

I am also constantly reminded that the first people the Crusaders killed were 30,000 Christians from Turkey, who dressed in local garb looked like the enemy to them, they then killed the first Jews they met in Israel, for much the same reasons, though a bit of antisemiticism was present and they had a 'You killed Christ' spree for a while.

Finally they met the enemy, who was able to decimate them as they had been depleted after all this killing of the wrong people.

Not sure how a 'hello and how are you Dusty' turned into a whole hub almost, but anyhow, what I think I'm called to do is be sure before I sound any alarm, and to study to be approved, for if Lady G is as wrong as she seems to be, then it pays to know where the error lies and how to answer for it when it next is spouted.

NB: Lady G, your last comment just came in as I was writing, the above you will understand and I will get busy with my homework! - for general info I did not approve a couple of posts that got heated between Lady G and SV, for they were personal and not really of interest to anyone else, or should n't be anyway!

Love you all!

Thanks for reading.....

John

PS. I'm very pleased to say that my son preached a good message over communion this morning, a first for him and me!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Judah, be careful where you step. God is all love and yes I am a child of God, just like everybody else is. Point fingers and make all the fun that you want because you all stand it the 9th commandment with all of your accusations and silly games.

How you give power to anything is talking about it all the time. Law of Attraction here peeps, not my doing. I am outta here!


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 6 years ago from Arizona

@lady guineverend,

I don't follow you and did not come here to read any of your hubs. I don't understand you incessant dripping like a leaky roof. Perhaps your do a good stuffing?

Please return to hence you came and wait for your judge as I will mine. You stand as a stumbling block and the perfect model of why women were instructed to learn in silence. Please don't respond I will not be listening, if I wish to read from you I will look you up, lest you'd like some nitpicking of your hubs calling you out as a heretic fool.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Judah's Daughter,

Thank you (and any others) for the prayer, it's welcomed.

I'm not entertaining anyone.

Lady G from the start has known that my reading of the bible differs radically from hers.

God will deal with all the other things, not me.

I have to go 'picket a church' (joking SV) right now, as my son will be preaching a bit! - but I'll be back later...

Thanks one and all.


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

Only God can call her, none of us can.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

I wouldn't entertain one who is not a child of God, aguasilver. Her heart is hardened and she actually believes she is God...by her own words. Many have attempted to soften her heart and no one has seen any fruit where LG's concerned. I just hate to see a brother give into the tactics of the Adversary who seeks to play with you as a cat does with a mouse. Your brothers and sisters are watching out for you ~ at least I am at this moment....praise God.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Lady G... care to enlarge upon that?

Who is giving God the permission?

Who are the certain people?

How am I under estimating God by setting out to make my life fit His words?

I try to give Satan NO POWER, however all have fallen short...etc. so he gets what he can from the crumbs of my spiritual table and I try to keep a close account with God to ensure Satan has as little on me as possible.

Maybe we should put this on a forum?

Or

Maybe I should write part two?

What say thee....


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

"You are giving Satan much more power than he deserves."

For someone who doesn't believe that Satan exists you sure put a lot of stock in him.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

God, THE GREAT PHYSICIAN is only permitted to use only certain people and you know which people they are prior to knowing them? God is much greater than any of you seem to think he is. You are giving Satan much more power than he deserves.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

The bible tells me that 'depression' is also from God:

1 Samuel 14:15

But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a distressing spirit from the LORD troubled him.

And Saul’s servants said to him, “Surely, a distressing spirit from God is troubling you.

I have always dealt with depression in a spiritual vein, indeed any complaint that I see that medical science cannot cure (as opposed to treat the symptoms of)I count as a spiritual attack by the enemy, and therefore seek to have God deal with it, having first identified (by asking God) the 'entry point' and repenting, thereby sealing off the 'perch' that allowed Satan the authority to trouble me (or the person we are ministering to).

It must be remembered that ALL and ANY events that Satan is permitted to conduct in our realm have been condoned by God.

Job 1:6

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.

And the LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the LORD and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”

So Satan answered the LORD and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing?

Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side?

You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.

But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”

And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”

So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

---------------

But Job had given the authority to Satan when he condoned his family sinning, so the perch was formed.

Proverbs 26:2

Like a flitting sparrow, like a flying swallow, So a curse without cause shall not alight.

-------

Therefore, identify (with the Holy Spirits guidance) the cause of the curse (and mental illness is a curse) then deal with it accordingly.

So I guess I do not put my trust in the health professionals, who can treat a sickness, but not cure it, and who in any case cannot have the same God as I do, or read my bible, for they obviously do not know how to deal with things in a manner prescribed by God.

THE GREAT PHYSICIAN

Where this world seperates from what God tells me, I'll go with God if you don't mind.

Like I've said before, the objective is to make my life fit into the words of the bible, not to make the bible fit my life.

Ok, that's my Sunday morning preach!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Really and Jesus never got mad and threw tables over at a church or synagogue?


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

Ahh, how nice. Someone with the Holy Ghost would never go tell someone to "Go jump!!!"

Actually I can.

Good day.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Go jump!!! nYou can't tell me that I haven't and the I am not saved. You don't know me and at this rate never will.


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

"So everyone here think the same, that they know more than the Mental Health Professionals?"

Maybe, maybe not. My only point is that you cannot tell me that you've had experiences with the Holy Ghost and then turn around and say that Satan and demons aren't real, or that the Christians took them from the Greeks.

On another note, I don't believe that demons (demon possessions) are the only supposed causes of mental illness. Many of the Biblical prophets seemed to suffer from depression (just look at the book of Lamentations.)


bearclawmedia profile image

bearclawmedia 6 years ago from Mining Planet Earth

I think 50 caliber has an interesting take. My people for generations have made resins cooked down from herbs and burned them in rituals to remove such manifestations. Some times even call upon the angels. The olfactory imprinting is the way of exercising such things or calling upon blessings. Look to any culture in history. The catholic mass always burns the frankincense before the blessing. It is part of us. Google Jacobsen’s Organ


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

So everyone here think the same, that they know more than the Mental Health Professionals? That is what my hub is aobut--not saving someone or anything like what is Prejudged. I surmize some are afraid to look in the mirror or gain some knowledge about how the brain works. Here is the link to my hub if anyone would want to venture and read it. It is rather long. http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Truth-About-Demons-and...

If anyone would like to discuss the rights about how is saved or not in the Mental Health Profession you can go to the forums: http://hubpages.com/forum/post/688979


itakins profile image

itakins 6 years ago from Irl

Very necessary hub-there is so much evidence of satan's existence around us-why invite him in!


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

I'm done as well with the aforementioned conversation.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

No, John I will not answer to anything like that.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

I guess you will both understand why I will sit this one out... but have fun! and thanks for visiting.

john


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

Lady G wrote: Sanctus, Did you even go read that hub of mine?

OK I have had several experiences with the Holy Ghost,

No, I didn't, and I don't need to. You have just stated yourself that Satan and his demons don't exist. If you had any experiences with the Holy Ghost then you would acknowledge that Satan, and the demons are very much real.

I won't go on a tangent about how you need to be saved, because I know that only the Father God, and Jesus Christ can do that.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Aguasilver, I was not blaming you for the messages not showing up, just telling you why I didn't make it back for such a time.

Now for those of you who want to know, this is the first paragraphs of that hub about demons:

This article does not discuss those demons that are found by Ghost Hunters and and the Paranormal kind. It discusses the kind that are human possessions.

The Bible tells us of Demons and how bad and rotten they are. It tells us to stay away from them because they are evil. Satan is supposed to be the leader of those Angels or Demons and his reign is here on Earth or is the Earth.

The origin of Deamon / Demon is Greek (here again is the bible taking from another social society and culture). The christians twisted the meaning and called it theirs (sound familiar?). The orginal deamons were intelligent, sensible guardian spirits. In the Bible and taught by religions they are now malicious, deviant, horrible creatures here to take your soul.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Thanks Cheaptrick, personal experience is worth more than sage words sometimes.... and I agree with you, Satan is a 'groomer' and will draw you in with his lies and deception, which all sound and seem so good at the time.


cheaptrick profile image

cheaptrick 6 years ago from the bridge of sighs

Hi Agua,I'm the outsider here and so much has been spoken so eloquently that I have nothing to add except personal experience so here it is,

"When you Dance with the Devil,the Devil doesn't change,

YOU DO"!


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Thanks Hannah, and stay close to Christ when you are near demons or people with demons.

You know 98% of people have internal parasites in their bodies, and don't know it, and refuse to have them dealt with, and that's in the physical.

Those physical parasites lead to sickness and death, the demonic kind do also.

Yet most believers have never dealt with the spiritual authorities they had offered to Satan whilst they were in the world, and will not believe they even have any.

Fortunately God shows us the spiritual problems by our looking at our physical problems, so the guide is that if you have problems in the world, look for the demon behind them and evict them!


Hannah Ministries profile image

Hannah Ministries 6 years ago

I know that demons exist and that people can be possesd by them!! I have seen it. I know a lot of people that claim to set people free. I don't know. But I have seen brothers and sisters standing in FAITH, Proclaiming the word and been deliverd from opreshon! So I know God is still in the business of delivering people. Tanks so much for your HUB.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi all,

Cari I am delighted that you linked the hub to your Facebook account, the wider backlinking I can get the more people will read it.... I think it's accepted now that I am not writing for profit, but exposure and exposition of the gospel and associated subjects, so thank you for your link, and tell your friends as well! ;o)

Lady G, I never understand how the comments thing works, or even if it does, but anybody who comments on my pages will always get a reply/response, even if for any reason I would not post their comment!

Dusty and Sanctus.... Amen....and thank you.


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 6 years ago from Arizona

John:13- 26Jesus answered, "It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish." Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.

Is this not an example of a demon entering into a living man?


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

Lady G wrote: Demons don't exist and you can read about that in my hub that I wrote many months ago:

You seem to have a habit of not only trying to persuade people to your own view point, but you're also somewhat vehement about it; I would dare say almost as bad as some of the fundamentalist zealots here.

Like it or not, you can not disprove the existence of demons. I myself know them to be real.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND

Excellent hub. More people, even Christians, need to be aware of the dangers of the occult. Anything to do with the occult is a trap, a lie, a deception no matter how truthful it seems to be. We must be ever-vigilant because of how satan tries to suck us into these things. Personally, I don't even read my horoscope - anything other than the HOly Spirit that tries to tell your future is demonic in my book. BTW I hope you don't mind but I posted this link on my facebook page.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

You may link the hubs. I find it weird that I did not get your messae back in the feed. I just so happened to log onto my profile page to see what I wrote on what hub or thread. That is the only way that I got it.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Lady G, I hold you to be a sincere searcher and as I said when we first spoke, I will not be accusing you of anything.

Christ is our Intercessor, Christ is our Judge.

This hub was written after I saw your 'To Serve' hub, and with your permission I would link this hub to that hub, unless you object, for they address the same subject from differing viewpoints.

I presume that as you have posted your hub links here in my comments you will have no objection to me incorporating them into the body of the hub?

It may also benefit all if we raised a topic to discuss these issues, especially as currently it appears to be possible to actually discuss topics of a religious nature, rather than spend most of the time dealing with trolls and sock puppets!

The primary motivation was the woman who your hub linked to, who, raised a catholic (loosely speaking) now seems to be heavily involved in eastern religions and reincarnation beliefs.

I missed the catholic starter, but did travel through the eastern faiths before I came to Christ.

I could not leave her hub unanswered, hence this hub, inspired actually by her not you, but made possible by your own hub.

Let people decide for themselves what constitutes Christs' salvation and what constitutes demoniacal, and whether either exist for them.

Both are reality for me.

But to make a decision, people need facts to base that decision upon.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

I see why you posted this AFTER my hub, "To Serve", Hmmm BLIND FAITH is dangerous to everyne. Demons don't exist and you can read about that in my hub that I wrote many months ago: http://hubpages.com/hub/The-Truth-About-Demons-and...

Before the others that left comments tell me that I need to be SAVED take a look at another hub of mine: http://hubpages.com/hub/Thous-Shalt-Not-Bear-False...


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 6 years ago from Arizona

Hi John,

a very thought provoking hub, given the days in which we live. I followed the link for the names and got engrossed into reading more of it that 3 hours passed from the time I read this hub and reloaded the page before commenting! It led me to list multiple links from that page and send them out to all in my address book. With a note that if any of them wished me not to send them any more mails of this subject to just reply with the subject line "NO MORE" and I would take note not to send them anymore on this subject. At that I will send them no more of anything.

I wish not to encumber any one who wishes to be free of Christ, I also wish to be free of those who willfully carry about demons of satan, so it will be a two way street. As I get older and closer to my end I am trying to make up for lost time and learn all I can and be filled with the Holy Spirit so I might, as you do, send out messages that we all need to learn. This one meant a lot to me and opened multiple windows of opportunity and doors of acceptance. I have in the past been given signs from my prayers that I had been heard and not to fear. The knowledge you transfer in your writings has proven to be an acknowledged prayer for a person to help me along the path. I thank you for your help. With much love I thank you.


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

To clarify, I do believe that people can still receive visions and prophetic dreams from God. However, I believe that the elect of God never actually seek out these things, but that they are given to them by God.

It is also suspicious when the 'Jesus' that a mystic is with can't even get scripture right. I once read an account in which 'Jesus' told someone that the whore of Babylon had seven heads. We of course know this is false.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Sanctus,

That's why I was surprised, for I did not think your post was in line with what i had read from you in the past!

So apologies for my confusion, and yes you are correct, I would immediately doubt anybody who told me they had received visitations, whoever they said they had received, for I know Christ himself tells us that the only sign we will receive is the sign of Jonah!

Thanks for replying and YES it does clear things up!


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

I almost have a feeling my comment was misunderstood.

I have read stories by many so called Christian mystics, and the stories are all about the same. The mystic will be in deep prayer seeking out God (first error, because if they were Christian they wouldn't need to be seeking God.) A figure of light appears to the mystic, and says that they are Jesus Christ, and then mystic is privy to some strange vision that's usually false.

I believe that these mystics are in fact receiving visions from Satan's demons; or even Satan himself disguised as an angel of light.

As for your question, I do believe that Satan has demons ranged against us; more rather I believe that Satan and his demons are more likely to go after the elect of God.

I hope that clears things up.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi Sanctus...

I'm surprised, because there is no mysticism in what Christ did on a daily basis, and He did deal with demonic interference whenever He came across it, which was frequently.

But I welcome commentary for or against, though the range of readers who confirm my hub would seem to be in favor.

What is your take, do you not believe that Satan has demons ranged against us? or is Ephesians 6 totally in error?

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[c] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Feel free to reply...


Sanctus Vesania profile image

Sanctus Vesania 6 years ago

This hub only reconfirms why I also do not trust so-called Christian mystics.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi guys....

I'm glad you have all approved the hub, it's important that my brothers and sisters review and test my writings, especially on such a subject as this.

This one came very fast and naturally after I had read a hubbers 'testimony' about how she had learned all these things (occultism 'mutton', dressed up as new age 'lamb') and had a relationship with Jesus, yet seems to hate the bible... Go Figure!

If it brings one soul back from the pit we can all rejoice.


Unchained Grace profile image

Unchained Grace 6 years ago from Baltimore, MD

Aquasilver, counting myself, there are those in our church experienced, motivated and through the Holy Ghost, capable of bringing those in need through deliverance. My mentor is and shall always be Bishop Kenneth A. Savage. A man who I call for real "The Apostle of Deliverance."

This Hub gets it done. Dealing with Satanic forces and demonic deception is no joke. One of the most common supposed defenses I've heard is,"Satan can't trick me. I know the Bible. I read. I go to church." Who cares, pal?

Satan knows the Bible better than any of us ever will and spends more time in church than you ever will! Just where do you think he does his recon and intel gathering?

I love reading your Hubs. You are an inspiration.


RevLady profile image

RevLady 6 years ago from Lantana, Florida

aguasilver, Thank you for addressing this timely and relevant issue in this hub. It is a great thought provoker to begin the new year. We must keep guard against Satan's deceptions including self deception. As Matthew warns, "If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"

Forever His,


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA

I read a book called Abaddon once. It is based on a true story and I couldn't put the book down until I finished it. She had a spirit-guide who called himself Jesus!

I went through a "setting free" of demonic forces that were preventing me from the baptism of the Spirit of Christ. I prayed for God to deliver me and had what seemed like a 20-minute dream. I battled with demons, even quoted scripture, to no avail.

The Lord then asked me the salvation question: "Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God Who gave His life for your sin and rose again?" When I pondered whether I really really believed this...and knew that I did, I was filled with power (FAITH). When I spoke the scripture again, it was spoken with authority and the demons scrammed, never to return! I was exhausted, but my life was changed forever.

I know demons are real, and I am so glad there's someone here to minister to those in bondage to them ~ the Lord can and will set them free, through FAITH in Jesus Christ. Amen!


SirDent 6 years ago

Great Hub Aqua. You expose Satan and show his true colors. So many are blinded by him and believe his lies that it isn't funny.

One portion that really nailed it is, "If Satan has managed to stop you having a personal relationship with Christ, and receiving the Holy Spirit as your guide, because you have been deceived into accepting one of his demonic apparitions as a friendly guide to help you along, you are lost."

That pretty much says it all.

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