It's OK For Your Pastor to Be Gay, Says ELCA

The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America has sparked yet another controversy surrounding the acceptance of gay or lesbian clergy. Before their 2009 Church Assembly of the ELCA in Minneapolis, MN, voting members approved a social statement on human sexuality by an exact two-thirds majority. The day before the address was given by the Rev. Ishmael Noko, general secretary of the Lutheran World Federation (LWF), the Assembly decided to allow gay and lesbian pastors and those church workers living in same-gender relationships to minister in ELCA churches.

Rev. Noke told the 2,000 participants of the Assembly that "True unity is a gift... this gift is God's own work. And our hands are to serve that unity. I believe that the whole Christian Church will be served well if Lutherans can provide an example of living together in love, speaking truth, confessing the faith, and sharing one another's joys, challenges and conflicts. We are making an effort to carry this out in relation to the difficult issue of our times today, the one issue that occupied this assembly intensively during the last days."

Lutherans marching in the Twin Cities Pride Parade in Minneapolis, MN.
Lutherans marching in the Twin Cities Pride Parade in Minneapolis, MN. | Source

Repercussions

After the Assembly met August 17-23, the repercussions came quickly. Although individual congregations can choose whether or not to accept a gay or lesbian pastor, some Lutherans who disagree with the ELCA are scurrying to find another church home.

One lifelong member of the ELCA says, "August 23 was the saddest day of my life. We said goodbye to our church telling the people who remained we would pray for them but also longed to be prayed for in search of a new church. Society cries out for gratification, Christians cry out for Biblical truth and GOD'S WILL."

Not only is there a threat of members leaving the church, but of whole congregations leaving the ELCA. There is a website called The Road to Christian Freedom which offers resources for congregations and leaders who are leaving the ELCA.

Gerald B. Kieschnick, president of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, says "The decisions by this assembly to grant non-celibate homosexual ministers the privilege of serving as rostered leaders in the ELCA and the affirmation of same-gender unions as pleasing to God will undoubtedly cause additional stress and disharmony within the ELCA. It will also negatively affect the relationships between our two church bodies.

The current division between our churches threatens to become a chasm. This grieves my heart and the hearts of all in the ELCA, the LCMS, and other Christian church bodies throughout the world who do not see these decisions as compatible with the Word of God, or in agreement with the consensus of 2,000 years of Christian theological affirmation regarding what Scripture teaches about human sexuality."

The Missouri Synod is the second largest Lutheran body in the United States with 2.4 million members.

Source

What the Bible Says

To me, and many other Christians, the message is clear. All Christians are to believe that the Word of God is infallible, that there are no mistakes, that it speaks truth and that we are to do the best we can to live by these truths.

According to the Bible:

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters or adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves due penalty for the perversion. Romans 1:25-27

In the passage from Romans, it states that God thinks women having relations with other women and men doing so with other men is unnatural and perverse.

Our Struggle with Sin

I want to point out, that just because I am a Christian doesn't mean I don't sin. We all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). Christians are not perfect people, and neither are Christian leaders, including pastors. Even pastors sin. God understands that we sin, it is after all, a part of our human nature. However, we are not to keep on sinning when we know we are sinning.

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left (Hebrews 10:26).

If we know someone is living in sin - say a man constantly cheats on his wife but he wants to be the pastor of a church - would he be allowed to do so? Probably not. Would a drunkard be allowed to become a pastor? Probably not. What about a thief? A prostitute? Again probably not? Why?

We are called to holiness. We are called to be Christ-like. When we fall short and sin, we are to ask for forgiveness. God grants us that forgiveness because of the sacrifice of His son. When we are not striving to be holy, we are living in sin, something God does not honor. How then can anyone who is not trying to turn from their sin think they should be a leader in the church?

I understand that there are Christians, including pastors, who struggle with sins in their lives. But if they are still striving to be Christ-like and ask for forgiveness for their sins, God offers them mercy and grace. A pastor might fall into sin, such as having an adulterous relationship, and when that happens it is up to the church elders to discipline that pastor accordingly. According to Hebrews 12:11 we are to be disciplined and trained by God. If we continue to live in sin it may seem we are ignoring God's discipline.

Culture Overcoming Truth

Unfortunately in this day and age, culture has overcome truth and that same culture is influencing how we perceive the truth. Many say that Christians are intolerant because we don't accept homosexuality. But are we also intolerant when we don't accept other types of sinful behavior? Jesus didn't. When He was confronted with a woman who was caught in the act of adultery He told her, "Go now and leave your life of sin" (John 8:11).

Jesus did not accept her sin but he did accept her. Jesus loves the sinner but hates the sin. We as Christians are called to love everyone; we are not called, however, to love the sin.

The pro-gay culture in which we live sees Christians as hating the person who is living in sin. It sees us as intolerant.They take issue with our "bigotry" and "hypocrisy" but isn't the culture doing the same to us by hating us because of our beliefs?

According to the Bible, If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. John 15:18

Our culture in today's society is of the world. We as Christians have been called out of the world that culture is a part of. What the ELCA has done, by accepting gay pastors in the church, is become part of a world that we are not supposed to belong to.

Research Shows that Homosexuality is Not Biological

But how can a homosexual be living in sin if God made them that way in the first place? Gay activists have done a great job convincing us that being gay is not a choice and that sexual orientation is likened to being a different race. They then demand to have rights. I would agree with this, if that was the case but I do believe either people choose to be gay or they have influences around them that make them feel they must be gay.

Unfortunately, people who want to revise the church's stance on homosexuality claim they need to do so because of new scientific evidence that suggests homosexuality can be inherited and that is permanent. These same people say homosexuality should be claimed as something that happens naturally and should be accepted as part of God's creation. This "gay gene" however, is not factual. According to the National Association for Research & Therapy for Homosexuality (NARTH), there is no research that supports people are born gay and that it is unchangeable. Instead research suggests that one's sexual orientation comes from a combination of biological and environmental factors.

Some environmental factors that may cause one to think they are gay includes sexual abuse or other sorts of trauma. A more common contributor to same-sex attractions comes from how a person's gender identity is formed. Gender identity comes from relationships a child has with same-sex parents and same-sex peers.

Source

Truth AND Grace

I do believe the Christian community needs help in knowing how to deal with homosexuality. We can't just go around acting like it's the ultimate sin. Sin is sin; there is not one sin that is worse than another. People living in same-sex relationships think that Christians hate them and I must agree that we have treated them unfairly.

There is a ministry that Focus on the Family has developed called "Love Won Out" that teaches Christians how to stand faithfully in their biblical beliefs about human sexuality while also reaching out lovingly to those affected by homosexuality. During their conferences they emphasize balancing biblical truth with Christ's grace.

That, I believe should be our role as Christians. It can't be all truth - we have to show grace just as Jesus shows us grace with our struggles. We need to live according to the Word of God and act as Jesus did. The church must stand firm in its faith and not give in to the ways of the world. More and more each day, we are emotionally swayed to give in to false ideas. In today's society it is more important than ever to educate ourselves on what is truth and what is false and then stand by that truth.

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Comments 70 comments

internpete profile image

internpete 7 years ago from At the Beach in Florida

well done and i agree with you all the way! It is sad that the Lutheran church is conforming to the world. I think the point you made about loving the sinner, but hating the sin is right on, and also how you said that you wouldn't let an adulteress pastor a church, so why would you let a homosexual. Nice work here. keep sharing the truth.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 7 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Thank you so much for your comment. It's a relief know others agree with me!


westernangel profile image

westernangel 7 years ago from Canada

We agree with you 100% as well Cari Jean. Keep up the good work and spreading the Gospel.


dlawlar 7 years ago

Very well written and expresses many truths..


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 7 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Thanks westernangel and dlawlar for the encouraging words!


frenchge profile image

frenchge 7 years ago from Southern California

Good job Cari...

Thanks for writing such a great hub on such a difficult topic. We all need to be speaking up more and sharing the truth.

Thanks again, Greg


spiderpam profile image

spiderpam 7 years ago from USA

Thank you for this article. May God bless you~

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths" (2 Timothy 4:3, 4).

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-08-01-h...


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 7 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Greg - thanks for your comment, it is a difficult topic but it needs to be addressed. Spiderpam - thanks for you comment as well and the bible verse - it is certainly very fitting. I went to the link you posted and read the article. We need truth now more than ever and soft-peddling around difficult topics such as hell is not helping anyone.


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 7 years ago from Chicago

This article is wonderfully written and full of Truth. Thank you for stepping out boldly in defense of Holy Scripture. God Bless You!


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 7 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Thanks, James. Your comment really means a lot to me!


Erin Nelson 7 years ago

Thank you for your post. You summed it up well.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 7 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Thanks for reading, Erin!


sooner than later profile image

sooner than later 7 years ago

Cari Jean,

I am in agreement as well. Nice hub. Our days are numbered now aren't they?


HOOWANTSTONO profile image

HOOWANTSTONO 7 years ago

I agree 100%, Effeminate lifestyle is contrary to scripture, and we are to reject it as Godly believers


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 7 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

sooner than later - yes I believe our days are numbered - so important to get the truth out NOW.

HOOWANTSTONO - Yes, we can't be so afraid to reject what the culture deems acceptable.


sooner than later profile image

sooner than later 7 years ago

Nope, attack the issues head on just like our religious freedoms are being attacked.


scotttampa profile image

scotttampa 6 years ago from Tampa, Florida

Just like the civil rights movement and every other human rights movement this to will be a thing of the past. Straight flight is not a reason to think that inclusion is wrong. Misinterpreted Scriptures are once what kept the KKK in power and women left under subjugation.

If you want to know what the Bible clearly says about Homosexuality instead of surface meanings link to the following e-book and you’ll see for yourself. We’re always looking for the deeper meanings. If that’s you then I dare to read it from beginning to end. http://www.dr-joseph-adam-pearson.com/CHR.pdf


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

scotttampa - thanks for your comment. I will check out the link and will get back to you after I have read it.


OTmommy profile image

OTmommy 6 years ago from Southern USA

I agree with your hub and will pray that these people leaving their church will find a new one that shares their beliefs. I have a gay relative, and even though I love her with all of my heart, this is a very touchy subject at family gatherings. Love the sinner, not the sin! Thanks for your writings- it is a subject that often has to be tip-toed around!


rmcrayne profile image

rmcrayne 6 years ago from San Antonio Texas

Cari Jean, I respect a lot of your work, so hopefully we can agree to disagree on this matter and still have an amicable Hub relationship.

I think that Christians are guilty of picking and choosing when referencing the Bible to support their disapproval of homosexuals. Clearly there are scores of Bible references that may have been appropriate to the times and culture, but are not germane today. We don’t stone people as ordinary citizens. We don’t own slaves. We don’t separate our crops so strictly when planting. We wear clothes of different cloths. The Bible was written as the literature, history and culture of the Hebrew people, by those people. I believe there were times when those people, being human, interjected their own agendas into their writings. Another problem to drawing important conclusions from scriptures would be the countless number of times they have been translated and interpreted.

I applaud you for reminding Christians to behave Christ-like, regarding the treatment and respect of all people, including homosexuals. Though we disagree on many points, your piece is very well written and organized.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

O Tommy - Thanks so much for your comment. I agree it is a very touch subject and I pray that the Truth shall come forth in this area.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

rmcrayne - thank you for reading and for your comment. I do believe we can still have "an amicable Hub relationship" despite our differing opinions on this subject.

I understand that the Bible was written by different people, but I believe all of it was God-inspired. There are things that changed between the Old Testament and the New Testament because the type of covenant changed. Even though that covenant changed, God is still the same yesterday, today and forever. Something that never did change was that the Old Testament was a lot of prophecy and the New Testament was about those prophecies being fulfilled.

I have often heard the argument about the Bible being translated so many times but I do believe God oversaw all of that so that we would still have the God-inspired, word of God that speaks Absolute Truth.

Again, thanks for your comment and thank you also for your compliments, I really appreciate them.


mary 6 years ago

hi i think my pastor is gay should i stay under him


elliot.dunn 6 years ago

Ms. Jean thank you for this thoughtful analysis of a very difficult subject. i'm in agreement with you - we, as those who profess faith in Christ, must win men and women to the Gospel of truth and grace. The words of Christ to the adulterous woman are so gracious - he forgives her but tells her she must leave her sin. that's why any kind of "Christian" homosexuality is so perverse. The adulterous woman, we are to believe, gladly gave up her sin out of gratitude to Christ for His forgiveness. we've mixed this American ideal of our rights and injected it into Christianity to say, "Yea God you can forgive me, but you can't change how i want to live" Thank you for this thoughtful challenge in a day in which 'culture has overcome truth'


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

mary - it can only be your choice to leave your church or not. That said, I can't see being under a pastor with whom you do not share the same worldview. If he does not hold a biblical worldview and has different values than yourself, I would pray about whether or not God still wants you there. Ultimately it has to be a decision between you and God.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

elliot.dunn - thanks for stopping in on another hub of mine, I really appreciate your comments.


paulhvv profile image

paulhvv 6 years ago

Hi Cari

Interesting and brave hub. Well done. An issue where many are afraid to tread. Why, is it because we don't want to face the consequence of been labeled as a hater of homosexuals and lesbians or for that matter the sexually immoral? If only they would understand that real God fearing, God loving christians don't judge, lest we be judged and with the same measure we judge, we will be judged. So in our eyes we love all mankind no matter what they do or how they live there lives. We understand that it is not just themselves that they have to deal with but also principalities and powers from the spiritual world. The fiery darts of the evil one. We all need to control our thoughts, and guard our hearts for it is our well spring of life. First the suggestion, then the thinking about, then the desire, and then the obsession. The process of thought. Many people, go about there lives not even thinking that they can consciously take stock of there thoughts.

My prayer is that all people will think, about what they are thinking and what ever makes them feel bad or uncomfortable, to trash those thoughts. Thinking only the thoughts that make them truly happy.(without kidding themselves)

with the love of my Lord Jesus

Paul


pncblessed profile image

pncblessed 6 years ago

A well written peace but.

Can I suggest you read http://www.gaychristian101.com I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Also my hub...


drpastorcarlotta profile image

drpastorcarlotta 6 years ago from BREAKOUT MINISTRIES, INC. KC

Christians are not haters of homosexuals, gays, just haters of sin, defending there faith and the Bible. I remember when I was living in the world, as the world and would get mad too when someone of God try to correct me! But I am not blind anymore and have been set FREE. This is all we want as Christians for the LOST to be set free, to know the truth! We love them too! GREAT Hub! When you get a chance, come visit me sometime. Blessings!!


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Paul - wow! Your comment was very well put! We have to be so careful not to judge but instead to speak the truth in love.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

pncblessed - I did read your hub and I am so sorry for the pain and the confusion you have gone through. My heart really does go out to you. I also checked out the website and although I realize there are gay christians who think it is ok, I am still not convinced it is the lifestyle God had in mind when creating us. I can only hope that just as I work out my salvation that you will work out yours and the Lord will grant you peace and life everlasting.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

drpastorcarlotta - thanks for stopping in and reading. I know what you mean about people getting mad for trying to correct us when we were in the world. Thank goodness we didn't stay stuck there! I have visited you and have become a fan!


Asahd2 profile image

Asahd2 6 years ago from USA

Awesome job. I'm sure you were guided by the Holy Spirit when you were writing this article. Continued anointing on your pages.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Asahd2 - thank you for the comment. I really did feel that the Holy Spirit was giving me the right words to say. I did not want to offend and my goal was to speak the truth in love.


Hannah Ministries profile image

Hannah Ministries 6 years ago

I didn't know this! Great article. I struggle with sin in churches all the time. Coming from another culture in the american church to serve I can't believe what is permitted as Ok. I recently left the church where our deacon is living together under the blessing of our pastor!


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Hannah Ministries - your observation of the American church is very interesting. I commend you for leaving your church for the reasons that you did. We really do have to stand for truth and not condone principles that are not Biblical. Thanks so much for your comment, it is greatly appreciated.


Jane@CM profile image

Jane@CM 6 years ago

Our former pastor from our former church starting pushing this ELCA agenda nearly 5 years ago. It drove a lot of people away, he used it in adult Sunday school and pushed it through his sermons. We had just built a new addition to our church and then he started in on the changes the ELCA wanted to make. I still keep in touch with many of the people who still attend this church, the church is barely able to pay their bills, some months, it doesn't. I think this ultimately will happen with a lot of smaller ELCA churches. My cousin is a Pastor of a rural ELCA church and the changes did not affect her church at all.

Great article.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Why are you all so afraid of someone who is different? Do you not know that Homosexuality has been since the beginning of time or has it just entered into your minds. What makes it that a homosexual not good enough to serve the word of God? Why do you jusdge so harshly when it is Jesus that is to be the judge. In Jesus's own words may you have the truth:

John 3:17-19 (Young's Literal Translation)

"17For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;

18he who is believing in him is not judged, but he who is not believing hath been judged already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

I understand this as we have no right to judge anyone else, but we have already been judge by the one who matters--Jesus.

You all are pathetic. What will be next in your divisions form God. God calls each of us in his own way and MAN has or should have nothing to do with that.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Jane@CM - thank you so much for your comment. My husband and I got married in a very small rural ELCA church. We no longer live in that area but I know a lot of the members there were very concerned about this issue. It certainly has put a strain on that particular denomination.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Lady Guinevere - I can't speak for the other commentors on this hub but I can speak for myself. I am not afraid of anyone who is different - in this instance different being homosexual. If I was afraid of them I would not have friends who are gay.

I understand that homosexuality has been around forever - there are many references to it in the Bible.

It was not my intention to judge. I think there is a fine line between judging and standing for truth. I am not condemning those who choose to live this lifestyle. Instead I am trying to point out what I believe is to be truth in the Bible - that living a homosexual life is contrary to God's plan. The more the church strays from truth, the more they stray from God. I'm not saying God will stop loving them I'm just saying there will be consequences for their actions.


Ann Nonymous profile image

Ann Nonymous 6 years ago from Virginia

Good hub! I like that you include a dispute against the supposed scientific evidence! God bless you for standing up for the truth, Cari Jean!


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Ann Nonymous - thanks for your comment. We need to keep standing for truth in these troubled times.


Everyday_mom profile image

Everyday_mom 6 years ago

Great Article. Thanks for writing it.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Everday_mom - thank you so much for stopping in and for your comment. Be Blessed!


2besure profile image

2besure 6 years ago from Charlotte, North Carolina

The bible is very clear on this subject and all subject of sin. I do not understand how those who feel it is OK for a Pastor to be gay. It is like somebody is reading a different Bible.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

2besure - I agree with you - it seems to be so black and white. I think it is more common in today's society to make decisions based on emotion instead of truth.


J-Leigh 6 years ago

awesum blog! im in 100% agreement with you! :) God bless!


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

J-Leigh - thank you so much for your comment. Blessings to you as well!


peacenhim 6 years ago

Excellent Hub!! We all need to believe that the Word of God is truly God inspired.

Many in today's modern society want to rewrite the Bible to fit their circumstances as if God's Word is fallible. Those who decide to change Biblical truths to accommodate their lives and circumstances will only be accountable to God. This type of accountability I would not want weighing on my conscience. Thanks for this eye opening Hub!! God Bless!


DeBorrah K. Ogans profile image

DeBorrah K. Ogans 6 years ago

Cari Jean, Excellent hub! You have presented a great balance to support why the Church should not support Homosexuality! How can a pastor justify such a relationship? It goes completely against the Word of God? How can one think it is okay to justify a relationship based on your sexual preference? This is the world's misconstrued perverted view... The WORD of GOD sets the standards! Do they totally ignore these passages of Scripture?

The Scriptures you have presented are quite approriate to support why the Lord does not sanction homosexuality! What do we do with all the Sciptures of "sex outside of marriage?" If we can pick and choose who is to say which ones are right? "ALL Scriptiure is given for correction..." Lord Help us!

Thank you for speaking the TRUTH in love boldy! In His love & Blessings!


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

DeBorrah - thank you so much for your encouraging and wonderful comment. It's true the Word of God sets the standards and I often wonder how pastors can ignore these passages of scripture. The truth is what sets us free!


Aquatic Guru profile image

Aquatic Guru 6 years ago from Goodspring, Tennessee

Very good article. One thing that has hurt the Christian Church today is the people who claim to be Christians but demonstrate hate such as homophobia. Paul taught us in Galations to restore such a one with meekness.Hate only the sin but not the sinner. The word of God is powerful. Keep writing!


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 6 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Aquatic Guru - thanks so much for your comment. I agree -people who claim to be Christians but who promote hate are definitely hurting the church and giving Christianity a bad rap.


rommergrot 5 years ago

I was raised Lutheran and left it several years ago because of the direction they were headed. I cannot remain faithful to worldly brick and mortar. It saddens me when I remember all the wonderful times we had in my youth, and I miss the music terribly, but I cannot in good conscience so much as set foot in an ELCA church now. It truly breaks my heart.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 5 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

rommergrot - thank you so much for sharing. It has been heartbreaking for many. A pastor friend of mine and his church made the decision to leave the ELCA. It is painful because that is the denomination many have grown up in and is all they know. People who decide to leave are very courageous in standing for light and truth. Although it was hard, I commend you for the decision you made.


David 4 years ago

God is the same yesterday today and forever.The world changes,God doesn't.He is the Rock that can not be altered.

The Government however Makes everything illegal,except for being gay.They promote homosexuality 100% so you better do as mammon says and not as God says.Remember the heart is deceitful among all things.These appeals to accept everything under the sun are appeals to our hearts.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 4 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

David - I totally agree and just had this debate with someone. I said that God is the same yesterday, today and forever and he told me, Yes God is but the Bible isn't - that the Bible changes with the times. I was saddened to realize that people really believe this. We simply cannot just accept things because it is popular or politically correct - we must remember that part of God's call on our lives is to live holy ones.


Arcjahad 4 years ago from New Jersey

If anyone believes that the bible in it's current forms are the infallible word of God you are as foolish as those who say they are born gay. Our heavenly Fathers name was removed from the bible , the ancient Greek influence on the new testament has Christians confused on many topics in the bible many life after death . The Creator gave us two choices which are you can chose the gift of eternal life or permeant death your soul will not live forever and go to hell if you die the second death after judgement day . But back to the topic you can be gay but to perform homosexual acts is what is perverse and unnatural see i can think about killing people all day as long as I don't actually do it I'm not in violation of a commandment.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 4 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Arcjahad - thank you for your comment but I do disagree with you - you say that you can think about killing people all day long and that is not a sinful act. The Word gives lots of warnings about trying to keep our thoughts pure. I don't think it would be pleasing to God knowing we are thinking about killing people or thinking about having sexual relations outside of the marriage. The Bible says that everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial.


wellwellwell 4 years ago

I agree with you 100%. It's nearly impossible to have a normal and mature conversation about this with someone. It really sickens me with the way the government and media portray it as "normal" or even "desirable". (SHUDDERS) Thank you for being brave and true. People think that the Bible is outdated, even Christians, while I'd agree that new knowledge is revealed the word of the Bible are timeless. Anyone who thinks it's OK for ANYONE to be apart of that is just-words cannot describe it. But I know for a fact that of the many things going on in this world today, this current "trend" is the most displeasing to the Lord. And displeasing the Lord is a serious offence. You can ask for forgiveness, and you can turn away from your live of sin, you can even be truly forgiven, but nothing you do will ever change the fact that you did displease the Lord.

Now I'm not ranting (at least I hope I'm not) because I know that everyone displeases the Lord. As a matter of fact I'm displeasing Him right now. But because everyone does it-is that an excuse? NO! So I'm going to go please Him. See ya.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 4 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

wellwellwell - thanks so much for your comment. I guess there is a season for everything under the sun - including ranting! So I appreciate your rant and I think God understands that you are just trying to present Biblical truth.


VendettaVixen profile image

VendettaVixen 4 years ago from Ireland

I don't really know what to say. I do have one question, though:

How about the commandment: "Love thy neighbour?" It doesn't specify which "neighbours" you should love - it doesn't say "love thy straight neighbours." I respect your opinion, even if I strongly disagree with it, but it seems that you're picking and choosing which parts of the Bible you should listen to.

I can't say anything more than that without seeming like I'm angry. I'm not - I'm just saddened to see that people still think this way.


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 4 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

VendettaVixen - Thank you for your comment. I do want to clarify that just because I don't agree with homosexuality does not mean I don't love those who are homosexual.


captain cap 4 years ago

Hello Cari, very well written. I myself am a pastor and I do struggle with these tendacies. But I refuse to claim I am gay. I've been a minister for 15 yrs and I and my church organization believe that homosexuallity is a sin. I admit its a struggle to me on occasion to keep fighting theses emotions. But that where prayer and fasting help me, and God renews me. As apostle paul cried out to God to remove the thorne in his flesh, God said my grace is sufficient. As for me, this is my thorn, and Gods grace allows me to endure. I had the ideal upbringing in my church. Born and raised. As it was my great great grandfather who began thee organization long ago. I had every godly example before me, and yet this is my struggle from when I was young. We are all born with sin carnal nature enbredded in us. But God say get save, sanctified. And receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. I am blessed to have received this. That is why I am able to push foreward in leading my church. I trust in God, and pray one day to be delivered. Until then, I will pick up my cross, and work my own salvation. GOD BLESS YOU


Car55Pat 4 years ago

Who says it's "ok" for your pastor to be homosexual? According to the Supreme Creator, Judge and Authority...YHVH himself, He states in the Bible, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination." Leviticus 18:22. Mankind, in our sinful state,is justifying the lust of the flesh to make homosexuality accepted in our culture. Just turn on your television. Every other program promotes it (i.e. Ellen, Modern Family, Glee, many fashion designers and Hollywood "stars" professing the "gay" lifestyle.) These are people in so-called "high places" with earthly fame and fortune, smeering in YHVH's face, their total disregard for His law. Even our government, which was originally founded on Christian values,is supporting "gay marriage." It is obvious that Yeshua is coming back soon! This is why we need him as our Saviour. Satan has dominion over THIS world...Yeshua has dominion over the next, made new in a twinkling of an eye; an eternal kingdom, ruled in righteousness without all this sin, pain and corruption. Thank you Lord and King for all you have done!


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 4 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

Car55Pat - thanks so much for your comment. Apparently there are many who says it is ok to be both a pastor and a non-celibate homosexual. And it does seem that Hollywood especially glamorizes the homosexual lifestyle. Satan truly has dominion of this world and we will only be saved by trusting in Jesus our savior. We need to continue to pray for those who are living in darkness because it does seem as though Jesus is coming soon!


a49eracct profile image

a49eracct 4 years ago

Thank you for posting this. I think it awful that the Lutherans are allowing this. However, I would like to make one point. I will leave the "born gay" stuff alone, even though Jesus says people can be...

The point I would like to make is that the Bible says HOMOSEXUALITY is a sin. This means being in a homosexual relationship or committing homosexual acts. Being a homosexual, however, is NOT a sin. God loves every one. God hates sin.

It's so important to be careful with our words.

Please keep keeping us informed!


Cari Jean profile image

Cari Jean 4 years ago from Bismarck, ND Author

a49eracct - thanks so much for your comment - it did get me thinking that I might have to write another hub! I agree that being a homosexual isn't a sin - but engaging in the act of homosexuality is sin. I really feel for those who struggle with homosexuality and I do believe that it is something that can be overcome by the power of the blood of Jesus.


a49eracct profile image

a49eracct 4 years ago

Amen Cari Jean!

God Bless :)


Hyphenbird profile image

Hyphenbird 4 years ago from America-Broken But Still Beautiful

Hello Cari Jean. The world's acceptance of everyone and every lifestyle is a slide into decadence. A Christian's refusal to go along with it is called hate or intolerance. I firmly believe we are called to be intolerant to the sin while loving the person. As you pointed out, Jesus separated the sin from the person He loved. Your readers have many points related to this issue so I shall simply commend you for taking on such a powerful and controversial subject. We cannot flinch from topics just because they make us uncomfortable. The salvation of a soul is too critical.

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