Let Me Tell You WHO GOD IS!

WHO is GOD?

Who is GOD? WOW. What a concept to try to wrap our human brains around! I’ve read all kinds of interpretations of the trinity and some of the scriptures cause confusion as to exactly how we are to interpret the entity of God Himself. People tend to humanize Him and have gone so far as to believe He is three separate persons. We imagine God the Father on the throne; His Son, Jesus Christ sitting at His right hand, and who knows where the Spirit of God sits? On His left? One doctrine actually believes all three have flesh and bone.

I'm sure you can perceive my frustration (the Spirit in me is frustrated), and thus the title of this hub, "Let me tell you WHO GOD IS". Let’s clear up the confusion. Before we proceed, I'd like to share that I am a saved "Gentile" and wrote this hub in January 2010. Recently, I came upon a Messianic Jewish website, AhavatYeshua and read their "statement of faith", confirming this teaching. I emailed them to ask if they would read this teaching and let me know if they felt I was off base in any way. They not only read it, but posted a link to this hub on their website! Praise God! I pray you will be enlightened and blessed beyond measure!!

GOD IS THE HOLY SPIRIT

First of all, the Bible tells us that God is [a] spirit:

John 4:24 (KJV) “God is a spirit [pneuma]: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

Now, beginning at creation, we read in Gen 1:2 “And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” Job 33:4 states, "The Spirit of God [El] has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

Throughout the Old Testament, God manifested His Spirit in the form of clouds by day and fire by night.

Ex 13:21-22 “And the LORD [Yehovah] went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.”

Is 43:3 tells us that God is holy and is our Savior: "For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior."

When the angel visited the Virgin Mary, she was told the Holy Spirit would overshadow her and she would be found with child of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:35 “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost [pneuma: Spirit] shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” Now, how can the Holy Spirit father the Son of God, if He is not God Himself? He is the power of God and is God, amen!

Mat 1:18 “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as His mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost [pneuma: Spirit].”

GOD is Omnipresent

God is omnipresent. He is not limited to one place. He was both the Father and the Son (God coming to us in the flesh) and yet remained Spirit outside of the person of Jesus Christ. This is why Jesus was both Son of Man and Son of God, and as a Man prayed to the Spirit, the Father.

What scripture proves to us He is both the Father and the Son? Is 9:6 "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."

God's Spirit is omnipresent: Ps 139:7 “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?”

God as the Son: Phil 2:6-7 “Who, although He existed in the form [morphe] of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form [morphe] of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.”

GOD Speaks His WORD

Some assume Jesus received the Holy Spirit upon water baptism. Being born of the Spirit, He did not receive the Holy Spirit, for in Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead [theotés: Deity] bodily (Col 2:9). God, Who is the Holy Spirit, manifested Himself in a bright cloud and spoke, “This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well-pleased.” Jesus didn’t speak here; a voice from the heavens spoke.

Mat 17:5 “While he [John the Baptist] was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said [and as recorded in Mat 3:17 “a voice out of the heavens said”], ‘This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased!’"

So, we also know Jesus is called the Word of God, Who was in the beginning with (actually 'pros' meaning to) God (elohim) and was God (John 1:1). Obviously, God spoke on His own and not through the Son when Jesus was baptized; so understand that Jesus was not God’s Son in the beginning, but His very Word.

Consider that when you plan to speak, you breathe. With that breath (pneuma) you speak. Likewise, the breath of God spoke His Word and created all things. 1 Cor 2:11 confirms "For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God." The spirit of man is in him, as the Spirit of God is in Him (not next to 'par' Him)!!

John 1:3 “All things came into being through Him [His Word], and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.”

John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.”

The IMAGE of GOD in the SON

"Only begotten" means God did not physically birth any other offspring prior to or after His incarnation through the Virgin Mary. The first man was created from the earth; his wife was fashioned from his rib and his offspring came into being by the sexual union of man and wife from then on.

Now, we’ve identified that the Holy Spirit is God. We now have the Son of God (God with us), Who is actually the only human image of the invisible God.

Col 1:15 “Who [Christ Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.”

John 14:6-10 “Jesus said to him, 'I AM the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.' Philip said to Him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.”

FIRSTBORN of The SPIRIT

How can it be that Jesus is the "firstborn of every creature"? Jesus Christ was born of the Holy Spirit and the water of Mary's womb and is called the "last Adam" in that He is the firstborn of the NEW creation. 1 Cor 15:45 states, "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." Look at John 3:5: “Jesus answered, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.’” Well, all men since Adam and Eve’s first son have been born of water (mother's womb). Mankind could not be born of the Spirit until he was made holy. The Holy Spirit of God cannot dwell in a "temple" (body) of sin. The Law of God is that sin leads to death. Jesus said in John 3 that in order to be saved, we must be "born again" = "born of the Spirit".

All mankind dies because of Adam and Eve’s sin. Our own death does not propitiate for our sin. We are unclean.

Is 64:6 “For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.”

God alone is holy. God came to us by His Holy Spirit through the Virgin Mary to DIE FOR US. He shed His holy blood on the cross at Calvary to take away our sin! Acts 20:28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood."

Likewise, Jesus Christ was the firstborn from the dead (as in bodily resurrection).

Col 1:18 “He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.”

Rev 1:5 “Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—“

Who raised Jesus from the dead? Three persons did not accomplish this, but ONE. Now that you understand that Jesus is God in the flesh, Who is the Holy Spirit, the Bible does not contradict:

John 2:19-21 “Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’…"He was speaking of the temple of His body.”

John 10:17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it up again."

Acts 10:40 “God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible.”

Rom 8:11 “But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.”

BORN OF and ADOPTED by GOD

Based on Rom 8:11, how can the Spirit of God dwell in us? We know that Jesus was the firstborn of God and told us we must be born of the Spirit, too. Surely, Nicodemus did not understand this concept and asked if we must go back into our mother’s womb to be born again.

Why do we have to be born again? Aren’t we all God’s children because we are His creation? Yes and no. God predestined His sacrifice for our sin from the foundation of the world, in that anyone who believes in Him will be saved (Old and New Covenants). His salvation does not discriminate between persons. While we are His creation, the sin of Adam and Eve resulted in mankind's enslavement to the evil one, the devil. The devil thought he’d won and certainly didn’t know God's plan to make the WAY to adopt His creation back into His family (elohim).

1 Cor 2:8 “…none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.”

Those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ (Yeshua - YHVH Saves) are the children of the devil:

John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father.”

Mat 13:38 “The field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one.”

So, how do we know we are "sons of the kingdom"? We must acknowledge we are sinners in need of a Savior. We must believe God came in the flesh in His Son (God's image), Jesus Christ, Who gave His life to shed His holy blood for us. We must believe that He was raised from the dead and will likewise raise us. We are saved through faith in Him!

Rom 10:9 “If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord [Kurios - Greek for Yehovah], and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

1 Cor 12:3 "...no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord [Kurios - Yehovah],' except by the Holy Spirit."

Eph 2:8 “For by grace are you saved through faith”

Acts 2:38 “Peter said to them, ‘Repent [change your mind about the devil’s lies and believe in the salvation that only comes through Jesus Christ], and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Rom 8:15 “For you have not received a spirit of slavery that leads you into fear again. Instead, you have received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, ‘Abba! Father!’"

Praise God! John 1:12 “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”

GOD's Powerful RIGHT HAND

Understand that God came to us in the image of Jesus Christ, His Son. Earlier we read that the Spirit of God is also the POWER of God. The Bible tells us that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father, indicating there are two persons; however, there is only one God.

What does “right hand” mean? Because God is Spirit, He does not have a visible body. In fact, the Bible tells us He is invisible. So, how can God have a literal “right hand”? This is representative of His power!

Let’s look at Ex 15:6 “Your right hand, O LORD [Yehovah], is majestic in power, Your right hand, O LORD, shatters the enemy.”

Ps 89:13 “You have a strong arm; Your hand is mighty, Your right hand is exalted.”

Heb 1:3 “And He [Jesus Christ] is the radiance of His [God’s] glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.”

Heb 1:8 “But of the Son He [God] says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.'”

Look at the alignment, the mocking of Jesus in Mat 27:29: “They wove thorn branches into a crown and put it on his head, and they placed a reed stick in his right hand as a scepter. Then they knelt before Him in mockery and taunted, ‘Hail! King of the Jews!’”

"I WILL Come To YOU"

Thus far, we know that God always was; He is “I AM”. He came for a season, for a REASON. As the Son, once He fulfilled His purpose, He returned to His Spiritual state ~ except that now, He can indwell each of us who believe!

Remember Is 9:6? The Son is called "Wonderful Counselor"! Who is the Counselor, but the Spirit of God?

Jesus stated in John 15:26 “…that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds [comes forth] from the Father,” and yet in John 16:28 Jesus stated, “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to [pros] the Father." Then again in John 14:18 Jesus said, “I will not leave you as orphans [Fatherless]; I will come to you.”

Did you know that the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one in the same? What is the Greek word for 'more of the same'? It is 'allos'. This word is used when Jesus said, "I will send you another [allos] Comforter" (John 14:16). The Greek word for 'another' as in 'different' is 'eteron'. As with the Son of Man, God is now both with us and in us, when we are born again. Likewise, we pray to Him as Jesus did.

In John 14:17 Jesus said, “…that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with [par] you and will be in you."

Acts 1:8 “You will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

Truly, those who do not understand that the Holy Spirit is God and is Christ in us, they have the “form of godliness, but deny the power thereof.”

Likewise, those who only acknowledge the Father without the Son do not have the Father!

1 John 2:23 “Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.”

John 14:6 “Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.’”

John 4:14b "...the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."
John 4:14b "...the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

Our INTERCESSOR

Did you know that the Spirit of God, which is also the Spirit of Christ makes intercession for us? Are they separate? No.

Rom 8:9 “However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.”

Rom 8:26-27 “In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.”

Rom 8:34 “Who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the ‘right hand’ of God, who also intercedes for us.”

Heb 7:25 “Therefore He [Jesus Christ] is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He [Jesus Christ] always lives to make intercession for them.”

Enlightenment comes when we understand Jesus told His disciples in John 16:26 (pre-crucifixion), "In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I will request of the Father on your behalf; for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father."

Let's go one step further by observing the passage found in 1 Cor 15:24 "then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet." See, as long as man is flesh (sinful) he needs a Mediator, an intercessor. When all sin is abolished and the Enemy cast into the fire, the resurrected saints will no longer have need of a Mediator. God (elohim/theos) will be "all in all" (1 Cor 15:28), just as it was in the beginning before the fall. In the meantime, look at Col 3:10-11 "[you] have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him--a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is "all, and in all".

WHO GOD IS.

God is Spirit, Who came to us through the Virgin Mary as the only begotten Son of Man/Son (image) of God for the purpose of shedding His holy blood on the cross for our sin. While His flesh died, His Spirit never ceased to exist; and by His Spirit, His physical body was raised from the dead on the third day, the firstborn of the new creation.

Is 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me."

Is 45:21 "And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me."

When we believe this and allow His Spirit to save us, come into us and dwell in us and use us to spread the gospel for His glory, we KNOW we have eternal life. We are a new creation! The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are NOT three SEPARATE entities or persons, especially not of flesh and bone. He is ONE GOD. Isn’t this incredible?

While God is now in us by His Spirit, just as He indwelt Jesus Christ, we are not little 'gods' (divine by our OWN nature), but we are now in God (elohim) and He in us. We are still sinful flesh, saved by the holy blood of the Passover Lamb (Jesus Christ). One day the corruptible flesh will be separated from our saved soul/spirit. We will be resurrected with new, incorruptible bodies and live forever with and in our LORD God. Because of our faith in Him, we are adopted into His family now; Jesus Christ being the firstborn.  And when we see our glorified Jesus, we will see the face of God! AMEN.

For more on the Identity of Christ, I invite you to read my hub Who Do You Say That I AM?

For more on the image of God, I invite you to read my hub God: Let Us Make Man In Our Image?

For a wonderful, Spirit-inspired parable to better explain God and His gospel, I invite you to read my hub The GOSPEL In A GLASS. Be blessed!

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201 comments

SirDent 6 years ago

This is a very detailed hub. Confusion comes when we try to understand spiritual things in our carnal minds. This is what causes many to disbelieve in Jesus as being God also. They tell us to let God out of the box, yet they put God in a box and limit Him.

Keep up the good work and fight the good fight of faith.


Unchained Grace profile image

Unchained Grace 6 years ago from Baltimore, MD

JD, this is perhaps one of the most difficult things to relate to someone as there must be a belief system in place

to accept it. I would encourage anyone to read and reread this Hub. Then, go back with your Bible open and read every scripture listed. It is something we must clearly understand. The concept of God as a spirit as opposed to a physical body is hard for even many Christians to absorb and yet we must because we will be called upon to explain it one day.

It took me quite some time to "step out of the box" of human understanding before I could grasp the concept Judah's Daughter has laid out here. In the end?

God said it. I believe it. That settles it.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi SirDent! Truly, those who do not understand are blinded by the "god of this world"; I pray those who are ready to understand will "see" with the understanding that can only come from God. I love knowing who God is and am grieved to see so many not understand ~ indeed, they box Him into our earthly mentality, yet He created us and our very universe! WOW!!


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Brother Unchained Grace, yes, I've had to piece it together and stand solid with all the confusion on the "trinity" out there...even the old hymn that states "God in three persons; blessed trinity". Truly the earthly math is 1+1+1, but the heavenly math is 1x1x1, which is really ONE. How does one explain this in English? Our language is limited, and I pray the understanding is made clear through the Word of God ~ for those who are given understanding. Hallelujiah to the Living God!


no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York

Knowing my background as you do, you know that I am come from this background of confusion of the trinity. This is probably the clearest representation of the Doctrine of the Trinity that I ever saw. It led you through the verses without the attempt to "see" Him as it relates to human terms. I "saw" Him in the Spirit. I could see the aspects of Him working and it seemed so natural to relate to Him that way. I think every person that has trouble with Trinitarian belief should read this and refer this to all their friends. This is why I marvel at our Father because He does these sort of miracles in His children. Thank you for being a conduit for His love and wisdom.


DiamondRN profile image

DiamondRN 6 years ago from Charlotte, NC USA

The more I study the Bible and pray and see God work in my life and in other's, the more powerful and wise He becomes.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Brother Bob ~ your comment is such a BLESSING to my heart. It means so much because I know your background and how God led you out of false teaching, this one being especially tough. Who God is, is the foundation of our very faith in Him! Do we believe? Do we KNOW our God? I pray this hub touches the lives of many who have fallen victim to false teaching. When we know the real God, we recognize the counterfeit religions easily. God is not the Author of confusion or distortion. I love you, brother. Praise God!


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi brother DiamondRN! God is certainly powerful and wise, and when we have His Spirit teaching us we will see more clearly day by day! Lord, Jesus, thank You for Your Spirit in us ~ that you teach us still even this day; we love and serve the Living God Who loves us so much!


ajbless48 6 years ago

Halleluiah! Amen! Amen! Judah's Daughter, this hub is really awesome! Yes... you have clearly explained here ... who our GOD IS...:). I love the way you presented Jesus and explaining the verses. It really takes time to know the real God. It took me a long time to know him anyway :)... I came from a background where I got confused of the Trinity... then... God Himself revealed to me when I got born again and really seek him. Now... I know Him by heart and it always gives me so much happiness and peace. Thank you so much for sharing this wonderful wisdom of God Judah's Daughter.

Peace and blessings to you.

Ajbless48


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

ajbless48, Isn't it EXCITING to just revel in our God? I read a hub yesterday, and finally saw someone who described God the way He is! I became EXCITED and was moved to write, write and write some more on our God! To be brought out of darkness and into His marvelous Light is so incredible! It is unfathomable! And yet, we will still be shown more and more truth the longer we walk with Him and are transformed into His image, for we are in Him, praise God!! Forevemore!!! Hallelujiah!!


BL Tween profile image

BL Tween 6 years ago

Yes, praise God!! Forevermore!!! Hallelujah!!

For He alone is worthy of our praise.

Excellent job! Surely He was with you as you wrote this.

Thank you for your willingness to share this with us.

What good is it to know something and never share it?

Again, Thank you!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

BL Tween! I praise God with you!!! I have to share now, that I prayed the night before I wrote this. It seemed such an ignorant question, but I have read so many Christian hubs where people refer to God as separate beings and I was also confused about terms such as "sitting at God's right hand" and so many little things. I asked God to please confirm to me that He is as I understand Him to be; what He had revealed to me...then, I read another hub that confirmed and I rejoiced in my Spirit, just like you!!! I thought, why NOT put it in writing? Why NOT confirm to us that we KNOW Who He IS?! Stand in it, and never be shaken!! I am so grateful for His faithfulness and that this hub is blessing those who read!! Hallelujiah!!! We KNOW our LORD God!!


peacenhim 6 years ago

A perfect delivery JD!! I'm so glad that you covered this topic, as it is a very difficult revelation to convey, especially to unbelievers. Your message here I truly believe is anointed! "Christ is the mighty Power of God and the wonderful Wisdom of God." 1 Cor. 1:24. Thanks for sharing!!


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

peacenhim! Thank you! AMEN! Christ means "Anointed", and when we utter or write anything by His Spirit, the anointing will be evident, praise God! I love the confirmation in 1 Cor 1:24 ~ the Bible keeps on confirming truth, amen!! We serve the Living God and He's given us His Spirit, which brings His written Word to LIFE in our hearts!! Can we ever praise Him enough ~~ God bless you, penenhim ~ thank you so much.


TimeHealsAll profile image

TimeHealsAll 6 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

I love this hub! Jesus sits at the right hand of God. Jesus is God's right hand and the scriptures as you stated represent him. Exodus 15:6 says your right hand oh Lord is

majestic in power", your right hand oh Lord "shatters the enemy" and in Psalm 89:15 You have a "strong" arm, your hand is "mighty". Your right hand is "exalted". I learned much from reading this. Thank you sis and I love you!!!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi sis! Jesus is the very power of God, which this hub shows is the Spirit of God, and God is Spirit. He is ONE GOD, our Lord Jesus Christ is His image. I'm glad you learned much from this ~ we are steadfastly planted on the Rock of our salvation. Did you know that Jesus is translated Jehowshuwa in Hebrew? It means "JEHOVAH SAVED". Hallelujiah!


Alice 6 years ago

I don't always post, but I do get in and read your hubs. You have a style of teaching the Lord's word that is so very heartwarming! I love you Girlfriend!!! Alice


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you, Alice! Love does warm the heart! I love you, too!! Thanks so much for reading and commenting :-) Be blessed!


DeBorrah K. Ogans profile image

DeBorrah K. Ogans 6 years ago

Judah's Daughter, Wonderful expository "Message" my sister!

This is clear, concise and enlightening! It has illuminated the Spirit within me to REJOICE! God truly is AWESOME!

The Lord has used you here to relay a powerful and much needed Message! As you stated: "Did you know that the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one in the same? As with the Son of Man, God is now both with us and in us, when we are born again. Likewise, we pray to Him as Jesus did..." There for we ask in the name of Jesus "Give us today our daily bread" by which we can live our lives to Please Him! "Let your Light so shine before men and Glorify your Father which is in Heaven..."

Again wonderful! Thank you for sharing, Blessings!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you, dear DeBorrah ~ I'm so glad to hear the Spirit within you REJOICES! The same happens in me ~ to be reminded and KNOW how very special we are to our Lord. What an honor it is to be a part of His family, not slaves, but children!! While here, as our Lord, we are bond-servants, doing the will of the Father and like His disciples, we are fishers of men, praise God!! "Lord, we cry out to You, SAVE YOUR PEOPLE!!! You alone are worthy to be praised!!" AMEN!!!


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Tammy Bruner 6 years ago

Wow, try wrapping your mind around that without the Holy Spirit as a guide. I guess I never thought too hard about it as I was always taught The Trinity. You, however, brought it in a whole new light for me. The scripture you used showed just how clear God makes his presence known, how awesome is that?! I just recently prayed to God to know him more and the answer I got was "You know Jesus, so you know me." Our God is such an awesome God that he makes everything very clear, he is not a God of confusion, it is our human minds and the evil one who will try to confuse us. If we stay on the narrow road with our eyes on God life is so much easier, too bad I like to take some turns and curves once in a while. :) This free will thing is highly over-rated. :)

Just to believe in God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gives us the "faith of a mustard seed". To know that He is our salvation gives us a little more. You know what the Bible says that you can do with that little faith?

Move them mountains!!!

Thank you again for another great hub!!!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Tammy! Praise God once again! He is Worthy of our praise! He answers!! I thank God for everyone whose read this hub, as I also pray God brings the increase in that all of us will be able to more clearly explain the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as ONE GOD. It grieves the Spirit (GOD) when Satan brings confusion to this topic, for it is the very foundation truth we need to understand in order to KNOW HIM. You are such a blessing and I'm so glad you were blessed and confirm this truth in Spirit. AMEN!!!


Artin2010 profile image

Artin2010 6 years ago from Northwestern Florida, Gulfcoast

Finally got here to check your hub out. Bless you Sister for continuing in the work of the Lord. Not only is God, the Holy Spirit, but I like to call Him the Great Shepard, The Greatest Physician man will ever come to know. , God can and will heal,when all else is futility. Surrender completely to Him and there will be a miracle. Faith is mighty. God Bless

Another excellent writing!


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Brother Artin2010! You know, I was thinking about healing today. I thought about when Jesus healed someone, He often said, "Thy sins are forgiven thee", then the healing took place. Healing first starts with the heart accepting the forgiveness by faith that Jesus provides. Only then can He bring divine healing from the inside out. Praise God for your comment and confirmation of such a powerful truth. God bless you!!


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godpreacher 6 years ago from Atlanta,Ga.

Great Hub,

Love the way you walked us through, including the right scripture to bring the right meanings, so that we could get a revelation and be enlightened. We can call him by many different names, and we know him by His many different characters, and the closer we walk with him, we recognize him as the Great I Am.

God Bless


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

And coming from a preacher, godpreacher, that's a great confirmation!! When God's Spirit (the Spirit of Christ) lives in us, we are transformed into His image by His character in us, praise God! This cannot be done without accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior first. He is the One Who bears the fruit (the fruit of the Spirit), and we would be useless and fruitless without Him. God bless you, brother!


Artin2010 profile image

Artin2010 6 years ago from Northwestern Florida, Gulfcoast

Well JD I've returned to reread this amazing clarification of Who GOD is. Awesome work. Thats all I can say. In everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving,let your request be made known to God. He has the answers! No confusion here. Thanks be to God, Father,Son and Holy Spirit.

The Vine will grow the more we know!


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Bless your heart, brother Artin2010. I, too have to come back and read this hub, believe it or not, for the more material I read by those who "almost" have it right, but are still separating God, the more polluted this foundational truth becomes. I had to put it in writing for myself and everyone else who suffers from this frustration. Thank God His Word is in writing! Can we even imagine how much the verbal "telephoning" of Bible truth would get distorted over time? All we have to do is GO TO THE WORD and STUDY. Praise God!! Thank you, brother; you are a blessing to me!!


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no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York

The wonderful thing about our relationship is that we have the Spirit that comes up alongside and seals it "in Christ". Thank you for being clay that our Lord can mold. Thank you for the willingness to stay at it with a man that is willing to learn truth from the Lord's hand. Thank you for each brush stroke of the painting of truth. I was never one for art. I back up and see the whole picture but the picture is still the same. Thank you for helping me see the Master painter so that I can give glory to Him. I love you so much I can not express its depth. Thank you. Bob.


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hallelujiah, brother Bob! Iron sharpens iron, amen? The revleation of God is almost more than we can bear ~ it's difficult to get beyond our human understanding of things and open our mind to heavenly understanding. I pray God reveal His truth solidly in the saints so we can continue to GROW closer to Him and thereby be transformed from glory to glory into the image of Him who saved us! AMEN!!


Royal Diadem 6 years ago

What I like about your hubs, is that, you thoroughly do your research, and give us the meat of the "Word" in milk, where we are able to digest it and we are able to mentally understand the deep things of the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank you for telling us, Who God Is!

Love you!


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Sister Royal Diadem! I'm so thankful to know this hub was easy to understand ~ especially since this is such a complicated subject matter, based on so many different views of the "Trinity". Your compliment means so much to me, and I am greatly encouraged to keep on writing about the things of God, trusting Him to give me the words to keep it "digestible". I praise God for you! Bless you!


lawstudent43 6 years ago

Hello JD. I found your writings on target in that you consistantly refer to scripture. As I was reading down the comments, my heart was disturbed by the attacks you've gotten. Jesus said, "I will show him (Paul) how much he must suffer for name's sake." And, "Blessed are you when you are persecuted for my sake, yes, be very glad, for great is your reward in heaven." I wish you well. Also, one comment on the blog by Dave Mathews who said a couple of times, with full conviction, what the unpardonable sin is. Actually, in the epistles, the apostle says concerning the unpardonable sin, "I do not tell you what it is lest you fret over it." If the Bible refers to it but insists it won't be told to us, how does Dave Mathew's know what it is? He doesn't. And, the apostle didn't want us fretting over it, so, let's not.

And too, concerning the unity of the Father, Son, and Spirit, Phillip asks Jesus just before Jesus died, "Show us the Father, and we'll be satisfied." And Jesus said, "Phillip, have I been so long with you and you still don't know me? He who has seen me has seen the Father." I think that speaks for itself, don't you JD? So, you've done well. Pam


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Sister lawstudent43, bless your heart in Christ and for your words of great comfort and encouragement.

It surely is challenging to give an answer to some that are influenced by consistent traditional teachings, rather than challenging what they've been taught, as the Bereans. I fear (reverence) the Lord in everything I study and write, and rely on Him to guide me in my responses. To my flesh and spirit, this can be draining at times. Your encouragement is like living water to my soul.

I'm unaware of the passage of "I do not tell you what it is lest you fret over it" regarding the unpardonable sin. Will you please share with me where I can find that? All I can share about it is what Christ Jesus stated in the gospel accounts ~ He is the righteous Judge; amen.

I bless the Lord with all my soul to see another sister who KNOWS He is One LORD God. Bless you and may our Lord be praised!!!


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Kristeen 6 years ago from Michigan

Judah's Daughter,

The Trinity is beyond our understanding. As much as we want to explain it to others, it is something we believe by faith. "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what is not seen". My advise to people is don't try to understand God. We are not able to in our human state. Just believe! Trust His promises! Study His word, because in it we have eteranl life. God's blessings to you!


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

I love you, Kristeen ~ I see God as only one, and that is the way He has revealed Himself to me. God knows the intention of the heart, which is where His mercy is applied. Whether God is one or three is a great controversy in His Church. I will leave the following passages for pondering:

Isa 49:26: “And all flesh will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob."

Isa 45:21 “And there is no God but Me; a true God and a Savior; there is no other.”

1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.”

1 Tim 3:16 “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

God bless you abundantly.


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pjk_artist 6 years ago from Turkey Point, ON

Great hub JD!

Isaiah 9:6 "For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;

I believe this means the child will be born in ALL of us.

Your hub does so much to prove my assertion that "God" refers to an internal spirit existing within us rather than some sort of external being. Agree?


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

pjk_artist, I may not fully understand what you're saying. The child born is God in the flesh, Jesus Christ. We only become the children of God when we are 'born again' by His Spirit. The 'sons of the Most High' then become a part of elohim (translated as gods in the ordinary sense, but is used of the Supreme God), in that we are members of His body, the body of Christ, with Christ being the head of His body.

Ps 82:6 "I said, 'You are gods [elohim], And all of you are sons of the Most High'."

John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), why do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God [Elohim/Theos]'?"

Col 2:19 "and they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For he holds the whole body together with its joints and ligaments, and it grows as God nourishes it."

May I recommend another of my hubs to further expound on this calle "VIM: Very Important Member": http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/VIM-Very-I...

Be blessed ~


Francis 6 years ago

Everything you have said is true Judah's Daughter. God is One. Who can have the guts to deny such glaring truth???

Actually only our realisation that God is intrinsically Spirit can we worship Him in Spirit and in truth. Scripture has revealed this truth.

Are we ready to accept this truth, leave behind traditions and faith-seekingly blow where the Spirit leads us to?

"Such are the men who seek your face O Lord" [Psalm 24:6]

May the grace of God be with you sister.


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Awe, Francis, PRAISE GOD! Hallelujah, is the word!! Yes, we must leave behind traditional teaching for Biblical teaching! The Word of God is God-breathed, and does that ever have deeper meaning now that we understand with Spiritual minds! As God's beloved David prayed in Ps 51:11, "Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me." We will worship Him in Spirit and Truth ~ He is the Spirit of Truth; He is the Way; He is the Life. He is "I AM"!! God bless you as you go, always and forever; amen!


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Troy C. 6 years ago from Norfolk, VA

Beautiful work, truly inspired. Keep up the good work.

Love and Blessings, Troy C.


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Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you so kindly, brother Troy C! It's a beautiful thing to try to capture the Lord's revelation of Himself into words and share it with others ~ those who confirm and those who learn; praise God! I so appreciate your kindness and wish you beautiful blessings from our God and Savior, Jesus Christ!!


JohnH. 5 years ago

The Triune God is not as hard to understand once we realize that God is a compound unity like a family is a compound unity. The error age old objections to the Trinity "How can one God be three persons?" when you substitute the word family for God "How can one family be three persons?"

First of all we do not think of a family as an individual but a group of individuals. So when we realize God (elohiym which is a plural word) denotes not the number of Gods but that within the one God there is a plurality of persons.

Also there are unique offices and acts of the individuals in the Godhead that the other two do not hold or do not do.

The Word who became the Son is the only Creator in the beginning. John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:13-16, and here's the kicker... Isaiah 44:24 wherein it says the Redeemer created alone / by himself.

The one who became the Father (the Heavenly Father, the Father of Jesus according to Hebrews 1:5 (notice "shall be" in the text, meaning both pre-existed the incarnation but not in the relationship they entered into in the incarnation) the Father created only the body of the Son:

Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, BUT A BODY HAS THOU PREPARED ME:

And:

John 1:14 (KJV)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,) full of grace and truth.

One last thing I'd like to point out, the Holy Spirit is not the Father of Jesus. The Father is. The texts that seem to say the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) is only indicate the one who implanted the holy embryo the Father created. Today science has progressed to something similar in artificial insemination. A doctor placed a fertilized embryo into the womb of the mother. But the doctor is not the father. Neither is the Holy Spirit who placed Jesus' embryo into the virgin Miryam.

Oh, one more thing I almost forgot... a Bible text that distinguishes the Father from the Holy Spirit is:

John 14:26 (KJV)

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

One does not send one's self. One comes or one goes.

The Holy Spirit is also dispatched by the Son:

John 15:26 (KJV)

26 But when the Comforter is come, WHOM I WILL SEND unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Son is clearly in submission to the Father (John 5:19ff). So he would not send the Father...


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Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

JohnH, My response really shoulb be a hub, mainly because I will quote you and then answer you:

You said, “The Triune God is not as hard to understand once we realize that God is a compound unity like a family is a compound unity. The error age old objections to the Trinity "How can one God be three persons?" when you substitute the word family for God "How can one family be three persons?"

“First of all we do not think of a family as an individual but a group of individuals. So when we realize God (elohiym which is a plural word) denotes not the number of Gods but that within the one God there is a plurality of persons.”

Answer: Elohim is a family, made up of angels, magistrates and mankind (Ps 8:5/Heb 2:9; Ps 82:6/John 10:34). There is only one LORD God.

God manifested Himself in five ways in the Old Testament, yet the Jews, who knew Him as ONE GOD, never split Him into two, three, four or five. He really manifested Himself in six ways, but they reject the sixth one.

1) Man of flesh and bone (1 Cor 15:50/Gen 3:8/Gen 18:2/19:1/Gen 32:24, 28, 30/ Ex 33:23/Deut 9:10 (compare to Luke 11:20)

2) The Angel of the LORD (Ex 3:2 – compare to John 14:15/Judges 13 (vs. 22)

3) Who was the Rock in Ex 17:6? We are told in 1 Cor 10:4

4) Clouds by day (Num 14:14)

5) Fire by night (Nub 14:14)

6) Flesh, bone and blood, Jesus Christ (1 Tim 3:16; Isa 9:6 and so many more)

You said, “Also there are unique offices and acts of the individuals in the Godhead that the other two do not hold or do not do.

“The Word who became the Son is the only Creator in the beginning. John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:13-16, and here's the kicker... Isaiah 44:24 wherein it says the Redeemer created alone / by himself.”

Answer: The scriptures you quoted are truth. A ‘trinity’ holds this to be false.

You said, “The one who became the Father (the Heavenly Father, the Father of Jesus according to Hebrews 1:5 (notice "shall be" in the text, meaning both pre-existed the incarnation but not in the relationship they entered into in the incarnation) the Father created only the body of the Son:

“Hebrews 10:5 (KJV)

“5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, BUT A BODY HAS THOU PREPARED ME:

“And:

“John 1:14 (KJV)

“14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER,) full of grace and truth.”

Answer: The Old Testament prophesied of the Son in the future. God became a “Father” when He begat the Son through the flesh of Mary. He was also the “Father” to Israel, who was called His Son (just as Ephraim was), because out of Her would come His Son, God Himself in the flesh. So, yes, He became a Father, and yes, He created the body in which He would dwell, as He created all things. This proves then, that the Son was not in existence prior to His physical birth.

You said, “One last thing I'd like to point out, the Holy Spirit is not the Father of Jesus. The Father is. The texts that seem to say the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) is only indicate the one who implanted the holy embryo the Father created. Today science has progressed to something similar in artificial insemination. A doctor placed a fertilized embryo into the womb of the mother. But the doctor is not the father. Neither is the Holy Spirit who placed Jesus' embryo into the virgin Miryam.”

Answer: That is not scriptural, but is a matter of your own carnal interpretation. If I pour water into a glass, does it mean the water didn’t come from the pitcher from which I poured it? Is it not the same water? Is it not possible for the same water to remain in the pitcher and in the glass at the same time?

You said, “Oh, one more thing I almost forgot... a Bible text that distinguishes the Father from the Holy Spirit is:

“John 14:26 (KJV)

“26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

“One does not send one's self. One comes or one goes.

“The Holy Spirit is also dispatched by the Son:

“John 15:26 (KJV)

“26 But when the Comforter is come, WHOM I WILL SEND unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:”

Answer: John 14 and 15 were spoken while Jesus was not yet glorified. He was still in the flesh, submissive to the Spirit (His Father). Notice, you said the Father will send the Comforter in 14:26; however what does Jesus say in 16:7? “Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.” Likewise, as is written in this hub, Jesus said in John 14:18, “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.” And, consider verse 16, when Jesus calls the Comforter ‘another’ (written in English), which is the Greek word ‘allos’, meaning “more of the same”.

You said, “The Son is clearly in submission to the Father (John 5:19ff). So he would not send the Father...”

Answer: John 5:19 exemplifies the fact that Jesus was God’s vessel. Everything He said and did was the will of the Spirit in Him, just as we are to do when we are born of and filled with the Spirit. His Spirit (the Sprit of God, which is the Spirit of Christ) in us intercedes through us while we are yet in sinful flesh with the Adversary prowling about. He is the image of the INVISIBLE God (Col 1:15), who is SPIRIT (John 4:24). In the body of the Son, He was the cup that overflows with the water of God. He is the Living Water (Jer 2:13/John 4:10-14/John 7:38). So much….

May I recommend “The Gospel in a Glass”: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-GOSPEL...

And also, my hub called “1 Corinthians 15:28: Jesus Subject to the Father?” http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/1-Corinthi...

I can’t make this real to you, if you are sold out on the ‘trinity’; I was, too ~ until God showed me that He is only ONE God and what an awesome God and Savior He is! (1 Tim 1:1/Tit 2:13/2 Pet 1:1; Is 45:15/ Mic 7:7; 1 Chr 16:35/Ps 65:5/Hab 3:18, etc. etc. etc.)


JohnH. 5 years ago

JohnH.

So, in a round about way, you are saying you are a modalist?

How exactly did God reveal himself to you?

Forgive me if I overlooked it in what I read that you wrote.


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Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi JohnH, I appreciate your kindness. Frankly, I had no idea what a 'modalist' was, nor do I really still. Would you please define it for me, in what you understand it to be?

God revealed Himself through His Spirit, as it never came through any man's teaching. I was comforted to know I am not alone. I can't call myself by any denomination either. I just read and study the Bible and stay in tune with the Lord, by His grace and mercy. I do have a hub called "Statement of Faith", which outlines what I believe thus far...I am continually learning and growing, and I hope I never stop.

As I had questions, I asked of the Lord. As He began to reveal, I had more questions. Breaking loose of my mere acceptance of what I'd been taught by man was mind-blowing. It takes a lot of trust, even fear (reverence) to submit to the teaching of the Holy Spirit. In my questions and testing I wrote about it as I went. This didn't happen overnight...

I have some links at the base of this hub, which will link to others. Truly, I never learned this from anyone else, but the Living Word. Thank you.


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Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

See, JohnH, whenver I look up 'modalism' there are elements that are missing the mark; it's like non-'modalists' are writing about something they are trying to understand or explain and can't get it. Therefore, based on the varying definitions of this term, I cannot claim to be a 'modalist'.

Basically, God is Spirit and can choose whatever form He wants to and as many at the same time as He wants to. The source is all the same, One God. The best way I can explain it is in how I just showed you the six ways God manifested Himself above, and the illustration about the water. All the hubs I've written on this subject are about my questions, study and answers, doing my best to communicate what the Lord would have me to.

Look at Oneness Pentecostals. They almost have it right, but to only call God "Jesus", when His Hebrew name in the flesh was Yehowshua (YHWH Saves), shortened as Yeshua, is His name: His name is Yod-Hay-Waw-Hay or "I AM". To call Him LORD is awesome, or even LORD God or LORD Jesus (in English). I think they have some doctrinal errors as well, in that water baptism is required for salvation, women can't wear makeup or pants, televisions are not allowed in the home, etc. etc.

When the Lord returns, He will 'judge' (condemn/avenge) the 'world' (Strongs Exh: confusion) - Ps 9:8. He will set the crooked path straight.


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Anne Pettit 5 years ago from North Carolina

God cannot be proved or disproved.


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Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Anne,

Mat 16:4 "'An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and a sign will not be given it, except the sign of Jonah.' And He left them and went away."

John 20:28-19 "Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!' Jesus said to him, 'Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.'"

Rom 1:20 "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."


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Abrushing1968 5 years ago from USA- Florida

JD as always, I find you to be an excellent communicator and skilled writer. But I fear you are discriminating against the greater body of truth here in this hub, and the others that you have written on this subject.

You are presenting only part of the picture. This hub indeed showed the three different faces of God. But it does so at the expense of the bigger picture. It approaches the God head from a Oneness or modalistic lens. In so doing, you are exalting some scriptures while over looking others.

You position can not explain how Jesus existed separately in a distinct person and form prior to his incarnation. As many scriptures through out the old and new testament suggest.

Verses Such as: Daniel 3:25, Galatians 4:4, 1st John 4:10, 1st John 4:1, Hebrews 13:8

He was a distinct and separate person in his pre flesh form before and after he was in the likeness of man as shown by Philippians 2:5-7 and John 17:5, John 1:1-5 and 14 and and exists separately today in his resurrected form John 20:17, John 20:28.

Philippians 2:6 shows Jesus and God as one God, yet separate in persons. It is a look into the trinity. The verse plainly says Jesus's pre-flesh form was equal with God. By declaring equality, it is suggesting a distinction. If one is equal to someone else, we must acknowledge at least two separate beings in which we are comparing. In addition, It is telling us that He is God for only God can be equal to God. Any other explanation puts this verse at odds with Isaiah 40:25 and Isaiah 46:9 and would no longer qualify as holy script.

I understand the notion behind your rejection of the trinity doctrine I really do. Your failing is that you are determined to express God in a "Yachid" or singular form. You deny the reality that he is expressed through out the old testament as "Echad" a plural form of God. You deny His distinct and separate existence in the old testament virtually ascribing deity to angels in order to support your theology, consequently robbing Christ of His Glory. Just as the JW's do. Just as Mormons do. and a myriad of other erroneous philosophies.

This comes from a misunderstanding of scripture and a propensity to understand God through our limited understanding of the natural laws of physics and humanistic reasoning.

Colossians 2:8-10

Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Forgetting that those things which are impossible for man are possible with God.

Deuteronomy 6:4

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one [echad]!

God is One (echad) not three separate gods working together. But nether is he One (Yachid) God who simply morphs himself in to three separate forms.

In the unity of the Godhead there be three Persons of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son. West Minster Confession

I approach the Trinity Doctrine with an acute awareness that it falls short of describing God. It is simply an attempt by men to understand who, and what God is, from the information we have available. Past down from the prophets, the life of Jesus, and the Apostles. It looks at the whole picture, the fullness of the gospel of Christ, found in the Holy Scriptures assembled and preserved in the Holy Bible. I am currently persuaded that it is the best explanation available. I believe it sufficiently explains how there can only be one God in the Old Testament, while at the same time we see God declared in three separate persons in the new. I believe that this doctrine is foundational and is vital to a sound understanding of Salvation.

In Christ Jesus our Lord

ABR


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Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi brother ABR ~ While I fully respect the great information in your comment (rather than a mere rebuttal), one would have to say the same about 'Trinitarian' doctrine: "you are exalting some scriptures while over looking others".

You have stated that Jesus existed separately as a distinct person prior to His incarnation. Daniel 3:25 indicates one 'like the Son of God' was in the fire. Angels were also called 'sons of God' in the OT. We do not know if this was the LORD or an angel. There is only one LORD (Eph 4:5), the same LORD that appeared to Abraham with two of His angels. Gal 4:4 does say God 'sent His Son', but it also states Jesus was born of a woman. He was not begotten before that time. He is God's only 'BEGOTTEN' Son (John 3:16). If He were a Son prior to His incarnation, when was He 'begotten'? I would compare 1 John 4:10 to Gal 4:4.

Jesus was the flesh of God who is invisible Spirit (Col 1:15; John 4:24). Phil 2:5-7: Jesus was equal with God, while in the flesh (two manifestations, thus equal). In the Old Testament the ONE LORD GOD stated clearly, "There is NO SAVIOR BESIDES ME" (Is 43:11; 45:21; Hosea 13:4). Regarding John 17:5, you need to read the first verse of this chapter: "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You". This is the fulfillment of what was predestined in 17:5. John 1:1-5 is explained in my hub "GOD: Let Us Make Man in Our Image?" John 1:1-2 is actually translated, "the Word was TO [pros] elohim [theos - object] and the Word was [the] Elohim [Theos - subject]. Vs 14 tells us that God (the Word was the Elohim) became flesh and dwelt (tabernacled) among us. The tabernacle [material] of the OT dwelling place of the Spirit of God became the tabernacle [flesh] of the NT dwelling place of the Spirit of God. John 20:17 was spoken yet by the resurrected flesh of God [not yet glorified]. Vs 28 confirms that even Thomas confessed that Jesus Christ is both LORD and GOD, the LORD GOD of the OT manifest in the NT. Jesus did not rebuke him.

We have discussed Phil 2:6 earlier, which does not, in any way suggest a pre-incarnate, begotten Son of God. While there are two distinct manifestations of God here: flesh and Spirit...He is not two different 'persons'. You rightly state, "...is telling us that He is God for only God can be equal to God. Any other explanation puts this verse at odds with Isaiah 40:25 and Isaiah 46:9 and would no longer qualify as holy script."

And speaking of "Echad", why then did the Jews only worship ONE God and never had even a slight form of teaching that indicated God was a 'duality', let alone a 'trinity' for 4,000 years before the incarnation of God?

You stated, "...there can only be one God in the Old Testament, while at the same time we see God declared in three separate persons in the new". One cannot understand the New Testament without the Old Testament. Too many ‘Christians’ focus on the NT and their understanding is limited because of it. I suggest you look up the history of Oneness doctrine to realize it dates back to Ignatius of Antioch (AD 35 or 50-115) – disciple of the Apostles, Polycarp of Smyrna (AD 69-155) – disciple of the Apostle John, Noetus of Smyrna (AD 130), Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 135-200), Praxeas (AD 150-220) and Sabellius (AD 180). Then along comes Tertullian (AD 200) “A Trinitarian”, a converted Catholic priest ~ covered in my first of two hubs called "Should You Believe in the Trinity?"

How am I "robbing Christ of His Glory"? To make Him anything other than the LORD GOD Himself is doing just that, don't you think? Jehovah's Witnesses do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as God. Mormons believe God is three separate persons of flesh and bone. Oneness doctrine does NOT believe either of these theologies.

As far as Col 2:9, this only confirms what I am teaching and believe, for the word "Godhead" is literally translated "Deity". How many Deities are there? Only One. The Son was begotten of a woman; God Himself had no beginning. If Jesus had a beginning by His birth, then He was not eternal, was He? Rather He is the eternal God, born unto us (Isa 6:9) to die for us. Immmortal flesh cannot die and without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins (Heb 9:22). Acts 20:28 clearly states, "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of GOD which HE purchased with HIS OWN BLOOD."

Col 2:8 and 1 John 4:1 is of course a warning all should take to heart. Only the LORD can Shepherd us (Ps 23:1/John 10:11). How many Shepherds do we follow? God is invisible, right? Was Jesus not invisible when He appeared to Saul/Paul? There's just so much...I encourage you to read more of my hubs. There's no way I can put it all into one or two, even three...

I love you dearly in the love of the Lord and I appreciate your heart. We will press on in the faith and know that the mercy of God is with all of us who truly love Him.


Abrushing1968 profile image

Abrushing1968 5 years ago from USA- Florida

Dear JD:

You are fun. When ever we wrestle together, I come away scratching my head. Not in confusion or doubt in my position or doctrine. But rather, wondering how I can better reason with you. How I may better speak to the personal bias of your lens. I am sure you can relate.

I too appreciate your hunger for Truth. It is our mutual love for God's Word and our search for sound doctrine that allows me to hope, to take a chance and challenge you to a wrestling match. It is why I make my occasional appeals to you to reconsider different aspects of your faith. Not that I am "the end all, know all" truth machine, I recognize that I have not arrived. However hope to add to your understandings the Truths that have brought me security and stability in my Christian walk. it is my hope that you and I will come to a deeper understanding that agrees with out polluting God's Word. I too am striving, endeavoring to better understand who God is. It is in this light that I make my appeals realizing that when we wrestle we become stronger. But if nether you or I are not open to learning then we wrestle in vain. I have no desire to reason with out purpose. I am looking for productive reasoning, Not a chasing after the wind.

I believe that Truth absorbs truth and exposes lies. When we are dealing with pure truth our positions will agree. Where we contradict each other, False hood is present. I have come to understand that It is only through the unity of Truth can we know we have found God's lens.

With this in mind let us agree that God's perspective is sovereign when understanding truth. His lens is the one through which we can view, with clarity, the Bible. We must be able to know when we have found God's lens. We as teachers, must be able to rightly divide the Word of God using God's perspective.

Having said all of that I am able to agree with you that there is only one God. (Duet 6:4) That there is only one Lord (Eph 4:5). That the Son was indisputably begotten of a woman and that he is God's only begotten Son (Gal 4:4 and John 3:16.) He is without a doubt the image of the invisible God (Co1:15) And indeed God is Spirit (John 4:24) Indeed, there was only One God in the Old testament and certainly there was only one God in the new, and there is only one God today. I can agree there is no savior beside God for indeed Jesus is God.

In closing I would like to point out that neither the oneness nor the Trinitarian doctrine is perfect, nether can not adequately describe God. I love the Trinitarian perspective because it refuses to draw conclusions when the Bible refuses to draw conclusion. It doesn't attempt to explain how it is possible, mechanically or otherwise, that God can be three in One. It simply states that it is so. It takes all the scriptures concerning the Godhead and states what is being observed. You and I have only touched on a few of the scriptures that have lead men like me to subscribe to the Trinitarian lens. But we have to understand that this perspective is man's perspective so therefore it is inadequate. It is what we see with out limited understanding and blurred vision, when we look at the wonder and majesty that is God.

Isaiah 46:9

Remember the former things of old,

For I am God, and there is no other;

I am God, and there is none like Me,

We have to be careful when we describe God. He is unique in every way. He is the creator. Everything else is a creation. We must remember that there is none and nothing, that is like him. This is why he asks:

Isaiah 40:25

To whom then will you liken Me,(or compare me)

Or to whom shall I be equal?” says the Holy One.

Humanity will fall short anytime we try to describe his being in anyway. God is more then our ability to define.

Isaiah 55:8-9

“ For My thoughts are not your thoughts,

Nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD.

“ For as the heavens are higher than the earth,

So are My ways higher than your ways,

And My thoughts than your thoughts.

I understand that God has revealed only glimpses of himself to us through revelation.

Deut 29:29

“The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.

I recognize that humanity has, at best, little windows into who and what God is. He has not revealed everything to us. Only those things we need to know. We would do well not to posture our selves as the know all, end all, truth machines.

As for your rebuttal, may I playfully suggest that you would make a great masseuse. For it seemed to me that you have rubbed, oiled, padded and messaged the Word of God to conformed to your own personal lens in a most masterful fashion. I can say this because it takes one to know one. If you and I are going to be able to reason productively, with each other or anyone else, We must learn to set aside our rubbing oil and let scripture speak for itself. We, that is me and you, must set aside our need to be right. To seek the Unity of Truth.

In Christ

ABR


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Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you, ABR! "I am able to agree with you that there is only one God. (Duet 6:4) That there is only one Lord (Eph 4:5). That the Son was indisputably begotten of a woman and that he is God's only begotten Son (Gal 4:4 and John 3:16.) He is without a doubt the image of the invisible God (Co1:15) And indeed God is Spirit (John 4:24) Indeed, there was only One God in the Old testament and certainly there was only one God in the new, and there is only one God today. I can agree there is no savior beside God for indeed Jesus is God." AMEN.


Brian Hyde  5 years ago

Hi JD

This is a very interesting discussion for me given that I myself have long left the trinity behind and am not sure what I am now! :) You will see on my website my reflections on the Godhead and I am wondering if your view and mine share some common ground. I also understand that the Holy Spirit is God. God is Spirit, God is Holy, hence Holy Spirit. But I also speak in my ramblings of the Spirit OF Christ in His role of Comforter making intercessions on our behalf before the Father's throne with groanings that cannot be uttered. Now the throne suggests a physical form for the Father and Son alike, indeed, we read this in Daniel 7:13 where the ancient of days did sit complete with white hair and beard, and also in Revelation 22 where not three, not one but two thrones are described. I have long wondered too about Proverbs 8 and was surprised when I read Justin Martyr accepted wisdom as referring to the Son of God. But I really like the consistency in which you portray from scripture the oneness of God in the OT which has caused me to feel like rambling on a bit more.

In His Grace

Brian


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Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Praise God, Brian! Hallelujah! I'm going to copy the first part of Rev 22 (could copy the whole chapter here, but this is only for us to take note for understanding this in light of the One, True God):

"1Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne [SINGULAR] of God and [KAI] of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3No longer will there be any curse. The throne [SINGULAR] of God and [KAI] of the Lamb will be in the city, and His [SINGULAR] servants will serve Him [SINGULAR]. 4They will see His [SINGULAR] face, and His name [SINGULAR] will be on their foreheads. 5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God [SINGULAR] will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever."

The word 'kai' means 'even'. If we look at Titus 2:13 and 2 Pet 1:1 (for the sake of staying with the Greek language), the use of 'God and Savior Jesus Christ' uses the same word, 'kai'. The proper understanding of Rev 22 is 'the throne of God, even the Lamb'. The Lamb is God in the flesh, now in Spirit as He was in the beginning. The face of God is revealed in Jesus Christ ('We shall see His face' - Rev 22:4): 2 Cor 4:6 "For God, who said, 'Light shall shine out of darkness,' is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ."

For futher evidence of this, don't look at the English translation, but the Greek word definitions at this link: http://biblos.com/revelation/22-1.htm

Notice the word 'of' is 'ek' and the word 'the' is 'tou'. This would then literally read "coming out of the throne of God, even [not 'then', as chosen from the many definition possibilities] the Lamb." Where they got 'of the Lamb' is beyond me; 'ek' is not shown there.

You may be interested in my lastest hubs, "Should You Believe in the Trinity? 1 of 2" and its sequel, 2 of 2. It's great we can continue in this walk of revelation together. May our Lord Jesus Christ be praised forever!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Oh, and Brian ~ here is a portion from my hub "Should You Believe in the Trinity: 2 of 2" that is a brief answer to your question about the intercession of Christ and the Holy Spirit:

Jesus and the Holy Spirit make intercession for us

We just discussed the Mediation of Christ. The thing we need to realize is God is Spirit, the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ are one in the same. Look at Rom 8:9: “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.”

How does the Spirit of God/Spirit of Christ intercede for us? In us and through us, for we are a kingdom of priests (Rom 8:26-27; Rev 5:10). Jesus, of course, is our High Priest (Heb 8:1). Again, all mediation will cease when the final enemy of man’s physical death is destroyed."

Hope to see you there! God bless you!!


Ike Lawrence Reed 5 years ago

Being thankful to submit “Who Is God” is so very necessary. Initially, many religions define who God is. At the outset God and gods according to etymology and linguistics, God is many different names and the explanation for such names.

Furthermore, God is according to science the projectivity of humanity’s evolutionary desire of what they wish to be. Moreover, to those of pure intellect, philosophy and science combined and due to curiosity, whereby it is said that humanity no longer have need of neither a God nor gods whereby humanity is the creator. Thus, this is a statement made due to information gather through various reading.

So now declared from this reasoning, is expressed who God is and not with an ontological supposition, which is based on experiences and other spiritual concern of faith. Not to debate religion, theology, science, pure reason of intellect, humanism, philosophy Gnosticism, the pure church nor any belief nor nonbeliever.

First, The English Origin Word of God - a noun - is not God. I believe The Absolute Supreme Creator of all is, no, other than "The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Mind Of Love" The Total Essence is Mind, Love, Truth (Word), Will, Wisdom, Peace, Right, Good, Just, Faith, Grace. Furthermore, all that is past, present, and future is an emanation from the mind of "The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Love". Moreover, all existence and essence is of The Will and Wisdom of "The Pure Spirit Of Light of Love". Undeniably! "The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Mind Of Love" because of the character and nature cannot do any evil of any sort at any time or space.

Second, The One and Only Absolute Supreme Creator is "The Pure Spirit Of Light" and are not gender nor female nor male either or neither both. What are more "The Pure Spirit Of Light of Love" is The One And Only Justifier of all is and none other that can justify and owe no explanation concerning The Mind Of Will Of Wisdom. In this, ontology or science nor metaphysic is in conflict according to The Will And The Wisdom of The Pure Spirit.

Third, additionally from a void, like as nothing in space Angels is spoke into creation by “The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Mind Of Love” and this revelation is expressed more clearly in The Torah. Above and beyond a certain chief angel of Freewill rebelled against "The Pure Spirit Of Light of Love" and was put out of that great space above and beyond.

Four, "The Pure Spirit Of Light of Love" cannot be infected by any force or source from any plane nor realm seen or unseen or visible nor invisible in any dominion. From the power of the love is humanity created with the emanation of freewill and chooses to go against The Will Of The Pure Spirit of Light who humanity was made in the image of "The Pure Spirit Of Light of Love".

Five, The Image which is innate in humanity which is The Total Essence of "The Pure Spirit Of Light of Love" is Mind, Love, Truth (Word), Will, Wisdom, Peace, Right, Good, Just, Faith, Grace. “The Pure Spirit Of Light of Love" grants humanity Freewill which is that like grace that humans are free mortal agents to live and do as they please because of the love that "The Pure Spirit Of Light of Love" have for humanity.

Six, the humans that was created by "The Pure Spirit Of Light of Love" failed. That's why "The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Truth (Word) was an emanation by "The Power Of The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Mind Of Love" into the earth plane by the spirit realm call “Jesus, The Christ”, humanity's Spiritual Father through a virgin human lady. For this reason "Jesus, The Christ" calls "The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Mind Of Love", Father.

Seven, last but not least, The English Word God is "The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Mind Of Love" in the emanation of Jesus, The Christ in The Power Of The Pure Spirit Of Light (The Holy Spirit). "The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Mind Of Love" and Jesus, The Christ is the same and the only to be worshipped and praised by “The Power Of The Pure Holy Spirit”. In the earth plane and the spirit realm: One Faith, One Spirit and One Baptism for “The Human Family” as One Body for the reason that certain of humanity failed "The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Mind Of Love".

Indeed, this is Who Is God.

Thank You,

Ike Lawrence Reed


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Very poetic and appreciated, Ike Lawrence Reed! I assume your first two paragraphs are capturing the 'world view' of God, unlike the view of those who know God. You said so eloquently, "The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Mind Of Love" in the emanation of Jesus, The Christ in The Power Of The Pure Spirit Of Light (The Holy Spirit). "The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Mind Of Love" and Jesus, The Christ is the same and the only to be worshipped and praised by “The Power Of The Pure Holy Spirit”. Beautiful.

While you stated, "The One and Only Absolute Supreme Creator is "The Pure Spirit Of Light" and [is] not gender nor female nor male either or neither both", angels appeared in male human form on earth; God appeared in the male person of Jesus Christ. His image always has been and always will be the person of Jesus Christ.

You state, "The Pure Spirit Of Light Of Mind Of Love" because of the character and nature cannot do any evil of any sort at any time or space." This is true; nor can God have any character and nature that does do any evil of any sort at any time or space in His eternal presence. Thus, the reason for God our Savior and the reason God will judge those who practice such things without conscience and deny their Creator, their LORD and Savior.

"One Faith, One Spirit and One Baptism" (Eph 4:5) is rightly stated, "one Lord, one faith, one baptism"; amen. The LORD is that Spirit (2 Cor 3:17) ~ Hallelujah!

The only part of what you stated I would invite you to read more about is "a certain chief angel of Freewill rebelled against "The Pure Spirit Of Light of Love" and was put out of that great space above and beyond." I did a study on this doctrine of a "chief angel" rebelling in heaven, and found out it was the "Dragon, the Serpent of Old, the Devil and Satan" (Rev 12:8; 20:2) who rebelled and was cast out with a third of the angels. Satan is said to be "a murderer from the beginning" (John 8:44), so he was never a "chief angel", let alone an angel of light. He disguises himself as such (2 Cor 11:4), but is not. I have a hub called "Is Lucifer the Devil?"

Thank you for sharing. Blessings to you.


Lovewalk profile image

Lovewalk 5 years ago from usa

Hello, Judah's Daughter!

Wonderful work!Thank you.

I know about unbeliever very well

because I was just non-believer 2 years ago.

I grew up withou God's word.

I'm from Japan where people believe many god(s)....

but I knew there is a supernatural God

because time of troubles I prayed God to help me..

what's missing...? it's Jeusu Christ

we learned Jesus as one of world religion teacher

which I was not interested at all.

I thought I don't need answer from religion

I never learned about God's love and His son.

I was pure ignorant .....

I never heard of Gospel of Jesus.

I made many mistakes and learned from it and move on

but kind of guilt that never get rid of,

kind of guilt that leaves a heavy burden of guilt,

kind of scars that no one can see,

but God!!!! His mercy , love and grace

He healed brokenhearted completely!

God forgives anyone who repents.

He forgave me which I don't deserve

He is faithful! I don't have word to express how

grateful I am.

I was falling in Love God and Lord saviour.

I know that many unbeliever out there

also there are some reason behind it

pray that all mankind have revlation of God.

know that God loves them!

Have a wonderful day!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Lovewalk! Bless your heart!! I'm rejoicing with you that you found the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior!! Hallelujah to God!! Thank you so much for your wonderful testimony and yes, I pray with you and other believers that all mankind has a revelation of God and that they realize God loves them!! God bless you!!


Stan 5 years ago

Hi Judah's Daughter. An interesting article. I can see that you have the spirit of God, but unfortunately you are not quite there yet. You need to quite trying to understand the scriptures with your own understanding and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you. Remember, the scriptures are not meant for mans interpretation. They are spiritually discerned comparing spiritual things with spiritual, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little.

Scripture tells us that we need no man to teach us, but that the Holy Spirit will teach us all things. Pray and ask God to show you the truth and quite trying to understand it with your fleshly knowledge.

This is what the Spirit has shown me of God. God is Spirit and God is Holy, God is the Holy Spirit. Where you err is in your understanding of the relationship of the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit. You see, the Father and the Son are the Holy Spirit. There are two spirit beings that are God. In John we read,

Jn1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God. And verse :2 reads, the same was in the beginning with God. And continuing into verse :3, All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

Now here is spiritual interpretation of these verses.

The word is the first created of God. This God is the Eternal Father God. Notice what is written in Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;. This Amen, the Faithful and true witness speaking here is Jesus, the Word. This Word is the first created of God. Not only is he the first created, he is the only created God of the Eternal Father God. There are now two Gods. This God the word is created of the Holy Spirit that is God because at this time the Eternal is all that existed. So he is created of and by the Holy Spirit that is God. This is how the Word was God and Was With God. God the Father and God the Son, (the Word) are now both the Holy Spirit. This is how they can be three and yet One. They are are One and the same Holy Spirit. Scripture tells us that the Word created all things in heaven and in earth, but when it says this it is evident that the Father is excluded since he created the Word. Go back and read the scriptures again with this knowledge and they will be even more understandable. The Eternal God created the Word and by and through the Word the Eternal created all things. The Eternal gave the command and the Word did the creating. This Word is the God of the Old Testament. The God that brought Israel out of Egypt.

May God bless you in your search for the truth.


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Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Stan, I appreciate where we agree and feel the same toward your interpretation, in your statement "I can see that you have the spirit of God, but unfortunately you are not quite there yet." Here is my reasonable response, in love:

You stated, "God is Spirit and God is Holy, God is the Holy Spirit." Agreed!!

You stated, "You see, the Father and the Son are the Holy Spirit." And you stated, "They are are One and the same Holy Spirit." Agreed!!

Where you err ~ "There are two spirit beings that are God." With this, you quote John 1:1; however, you obviously have not done a word study on 'with' in this passage. I hope you also know that we, as 'sons of the Most High' are 'elohim'/'theos', right (Ps 82:6; John 10:34)? Angels are also part of 'elohim/theos'. There is, however, only one LORD Elohim. John 1:1 would literally read, "In the [ho] beginning was the [ho] Word and the [ho] Word was TO [pros] elohim (theon - object) and the [ho] Word was [ho-the] Elohim (Theos - subject)."

You then stated, "And continuing into verse :3, All things were made by him, and without him was not anything made that was made." Amen. Him is singular - the LORD God made everything. Isaiah 44:24 clearly states, "Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, 'I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."

You stated, "The word is the first created of God", but where you err is the fact that John 1:1 starts out with "In the beginning was the Word." Isaiah 44:24 above states that the LORD, your Redeemer, is "the one who formed you from the womb". The LORD, your Redeemer incarnate was 'created' in the womb of Mary. Show me any verse that tells us Jesus was begotten (born) or created before the womb of Mary. The correct interpretation of "the beginning of the creation of God" (Rev 3:14) should be cross-referenced with Col 1:15 "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstBORN of all creation." Now, because of faith in the LORD (Kurios - Greek for Yehovah), your Redeemer (aka Jesus, Yehowshua - YHWH Saves), we are 'born again' of the Spirit (aka born of God), as He was born (begotten) of both water (womb) and the Spirit (God). When we are 'born again', we are a 'new creation' (2 Cor 5:17).

So, you've not only stated,""There are two spirit beings that are God", you reiterated, "There are now two Gods." Hmmm....The LORD said in Isaiah 43:10, "Before Me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after Me."

Then, you've gone from two to three, when you stated, "This is how they can be THREE and yet One." Having two gods, let alone three, is polytheism ~ no offense intended. I mean, think about it. I was talking with a Jehovah's Witness this week. Their NWT consistently translates [ho] for 'the' in John 1:1, except when it comes to 'the Word was [ho] God'. Rather than use 'The God', they use 'a god'. Now, if the Word is 'a god', they truly are not monotheistic, for they 'follow the teachings of 'a god' (the Word) other than Yehovah, but do not worship this other 'god'. Now, if the Holy Spirit is our Teacher (John 14:26), do they have one God and two Teachers?...I could go on, but you are stating there are two gods, just as they do, when there is only One.

Put the equation together: You agree that God the Father is the Holy Spirit and that Jesus and God 'are' the Holy Spirit, so see how close you are? He is the Holy Spirit. The visible image of God is Jesus Christ. The LORD's physical appearance in the Old Testament was immortal flesh, while His flesh in the New Testament was mortal. Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins! (Heb 9:22) In Isaiah 43:11 and Hosea 13:4 the LORD God said, "There is NO SAVIOR besides ME." Acts 20:28 states, "shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His OWN blood." Is the LORD God our Redeemer as He said? He is God our Savior, amen (Isa 45:21; Titus 2:13).

Jesus said He would raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19)! Yet God raised Him (Acts 10:40) and the Holy Spirit raised Him (Rom 8:11)! Is this two or three gods that raised His body? Absolutely not.

Considering all this, we are yet in agreement when you stated, "This Word is the God of the Old Testament. The God that brought Israel out of Egypt." AMEN!!

May God bless you also, as we, because we love Him and are His beloved, continue to walk in the Truth as revealed to us by His Spirit.


Stan 5 years ago

JD, thank you for your kind reply. I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. I too like you have done word studies on the Hebrew and Greek trying to understand the scriptures with my own understanding. I have spent the last 25 plus years trying to understand the scriptures. It was only after repeated prayers for understanding of the truth of God's word that God had mercy on me and showed me that I could not truly understand his word until I allowed his Spirit to guide me. I truly believe that it is God that revealed this truth to me in his word. I gave up trying to interpret the scriptures. I only compare the scriptures with the scriptures now to come to the truth in the word. If the scripture says one thing here and another thing there that seems to be contradictory to each other, then I search further for other scripture that clarifies the scriptures that I find to be contrary to each other. In this way I allow Gods word to interpret God's word. For God's word tells us that it is not meant for any private interpretation.

First off, let me clarify myself. I was not trying to say that there was three Gods. I was attempting to point out that this is how man came up with the idea of 3 persons in one. There is in fact only One Eternal God. There are though 2 Gods that are called the Holy Spirit but these two are not equal. There is the Eternal Spirit that is The Eternal God, and there is the Word God that is created of and by the Eternal Spirit. Before anything was created there was this self existing One. Since he was the only thing that existed at this time, anything that was created had to be created of him and by him. He took of himself and created another being to exist with him. These two being are now both Holy Spirit, but one is the creator and one is the created. The Eternal God created this being to be like minded as himself so that he would do the Fathers will in all things. The Eternal then gave the Word (this created being)the authority to create for him, the Eternal, all the rest of the creation. Even though the Word did the actual creating of all other things it is by the will of the Eternal that they are created.

Where you quoted Isa 43:10 before me no God was formed, nor shall there be after me, makes my point. This God speaking here is the Word that was formed by the Eternal. He is the only God that the Eternal has created and according to this scripture he is the only one that the Eternal will create. God the self existing one created the Word God and through him, and by him, (the Word), he created all things. It is this Word that created all things other than himself. This is why all these verses in the old testament can use the singular and the plural when referring to God. Whenever the scriptures refer to God they can mean either God the father, or God the son, or both, because they are both Holy Spirit and they are both our creators in the sense that even though the Word did the creating (other than himself)the Eternal is the true creator in the fact that he created the Word.

Where you quote Isa 44:24 and show that the Lord is the creator and he did it alone, this is true. Where you are missing the truth is in the fact that this God speaking here is the Word, not the Eternal self existing one. You are seeing this God as the Eternal when in fact it is the created God by which all other things were created. He did create it alone, but it was by the will of the Father that he created it.

Where you cross reference Rev 3:14 with Col 1:15, "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstBORN of all creation." again, I see this as making my point. Jesus the physical man, the Word, the spirit Son, are one and the same being and are the first born or created of God in every sense. The Word is the first created of the Father and Jesus is the first born of the flesh man that will be changed into spirit. The Word is the first born of God's spirit creation and Jesus is the first born of God's fleshly creation that will be changed into spirit.

I agree that there is but One Eternal God who is the true creator of all things. But this Spirit Word that God created is also God in the fact that God gave him this title as the creator of all other things. This God, the Word, is the God that created the heavens and the earth and all things in them including mankind. Whereas the Eternal is the true Father of all creation, the Word is the Father of the creation too since he is the creator of all other things. So the Word is our creator God even though the Eternal is the creator of everything since he created the Word. So then, there is One God who is over all, and there is two beings called God in scripture because the true creator of all gave the Word, the Son, the authority to be called God because God gave him the power and the authority to be a creator too. Everything is of the Self Existent One. This is how God is All in All. Everything is of the Eternal and for the Eternal. He is the One true God. Even so, the Word that became the physical Jesus can also be called our One true God in the fact that he is our creator by the will of the Eternal.

God wants us to worship Jesus as our Savior God until the last enemy is put under him. Then the Son will return this authority given him as our creator God back to the Father so that the Eternal will then be worshiped as the true creator of all.

I too could go on and on but I think both our points are lost on each other. I see your train of thought and how you come to your conclusions, but I will continue to believe what God has shown me over what mankind interprets the scriptures to mean. No disrespect intended. There is a day coming when we will know just as we are known. Praise God. Continue to walk in his truth. His Word is truth.


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Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Stan, I greatly appreciate the conversation, actually. May I sum up your interpretation with this: First off, you sound like you follow what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe (somewhat), and secondly there's just one trump card to answer you...

You made many statements that God created the Word, so the Word (Jesus) is the creation, rather than the One who created Him, right? Although, you state the Word then created all other things....He is still the creation, rather than the Supreme Creator (at least His Creator), right? You then said, "God wants us to worship Jesus as our Savior God..."

Now, look at this passage: Rom 1:25 "They exchanged God's truth for a lie and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen."

Now, Ex 34:14 is clear: "-- for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD [YHWH - Yehovah], whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God--"

Now, look at what the angel tells John, who fell down to worship him, in Rev 22:9 "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God."

Heb 1:6 "And again, when He bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, He saith, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him."

Jehovah's Witnesses state they do NOT worship Jesus, because they KNOW only Yehovah is to be worshiped (the Father). God's command is His command. Already, they are not following the holy Scriptures.

For another 'sharpening' of the Spirit's revelation, may I invite you to read my hub on the topic of the subjection of the 'Son' [devine huios] to the Father, when the last enemy of death, is destroyed?

Let me at least give you the Seed of the teaching...Jesus said in Rev 21:6-7 "Then He said to me, 'It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son [devine huios]." Is the Alpha and Omega the same as the First and the Last?

Isaiah 44:6 states, "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his [notice no capital letter on 'his', meaning Israel's] Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is NO GOD BESIDES ME.'" Compare this to Rev 2:8 "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this:"

Just as it was in the beginning, the Spirit of God was LORD over His creation (man) before the fall, so it will be when we are resurrected and ruling over the New Earth, with Jesus Christ as LORD.

The Bible does interpret itself truthfully, but only when you look at the original languages. Contradictions are present in the way it's translated. For this reason, we are admonished to study to show ourselves approved and unashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth (2 Tim 2:15). The multitude of translations published from their 'root', the Latin Textus Receptus, are majorly flawed, especially when you research what is translated in comparison to what the original languages state. Here's an example:

1 John 5:7: The original Greek merely states, "There are three that testify:" Below is a link to the original Greek, and another to show you many translations that show the exact translation. However, I've also provided a link so you can see for yourself that the KJV (for instance) adds the following text: "in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

This is from biblos.com:

Here is the interlinear Greek, so you can see for yourself: http://biblos.com/1_john/5-7.htm

Here is the parallel comparison of many translations in English (NIV, NAS, etc.): http://bible.cc/1_john/5-7.htm

The alteration to this verse is what is famously known as "the Comma Johannium" (sound Latin to you?) I hope you will read some of my other hub links at the base of this one. I've studied and published for the edification of the saints, and I pray you are willing to partake.

The LORD is good and His MERCY endures forever!! God bless you as you continue in your studies and walk in His Spirit.


Stan 5 years ago

Hi again JD. I see that my points are lost on you as yours are on me so I'll end this here.

It is obvious that you are well versed in the Hebrew and the Greek where I am not. I rely on the Interlinear Bible and the Strong's Concordance. Because you know more about the use of these languages than I, I'll have to yield to you for the time being while I continue my studies. Thank you for your kindness and I will move on and read your other hubs. May God bless you as I know he will. Stan


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Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Stan, you know, this was the first hub that I wrote as I received this from the LORD. It was the hardest for me to break through the 'doctrines of men' that I had been raised with all my life until this point. From here, the LORD kept building and is yet building. I am still a student (disciple) and studying, just like you. I admire your studious spirit and love for the LORD God. May He encourage each of us in this walk, for it is a fascinating one!! Beware of the doctrines of men, and KNOW that the LORD's wisdom and knowledge supercedes our own understanding. We must lean on Him always, daily and never stop. We are being transformed into the image in which He created us...His image. Day by day, line upon line, precept upon precept and by His Spirit. May we overcome the 'world' unto His glory!! amen.


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SanLaro 5 years ago from Dominica/Guyana

God is Love. Love is abstact. You know it when you feel it. Becareful though there r wolves in sheeps clothing therefore be equiped with the necessary wisdom for discernning what is real.


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Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

SanLaro, yes God is love, amen. What I've learned somewhat, is that if a person innocently doesn't know better, it's simply ignorance or even 'missing the mark', but if a person deeply knows better and chooses to turn his/her ears away from the truth because they'd rather be accepted or 'loved' by the 'world', that merits the likeness of a 'wolf'. Wolves have no Shepherd, but rather travel in packs, while sheep have a Shepherd and all follow Him. May we ask the LORD for wisdom, for without it, we would surely be ignorantly destroyed.


Noname 4 years ago

Lets agree the Bible in NO WAY contradicts itself...

1. Acts 2:22 "Jesus was a MAN accredited BY God"

2. The term "Son of Man" was 82 times in the New Testiment in reference to Jesus.

3. Numbers 23 "God is NOT a man..... NOR Son of Man...."

Jesus is indeed The Son of the 1 true living God and is our Messiah, our Salvation, our Christ!

Just as the elements of the nature of man are dust of the earth and Gods breath (Holy Spirit), Jesus' elements of His nature are God's very spoken word and the Breath of God (Holy Spirit)

Spoken word- that's what it means in Isaiah "My Word will not return unto me void"

Because Jesus came to do the work OF the Father to carry out the FATHER's Will and to glorify His FATHER... Not Himself.

But when GOD raised Jesus from the dead it was GOD that exalted Him and it was GOD that seated Him at His right hand and it was GOD that glorified Him and it was GOD that gave Him a name that is above all names that at the name of Jesus every knee shall now and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord TO TO TO TO TO the glory of GOD the Father!!!! Amen!


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Noname,

Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-" Let's be sure to take the full verse with understanding. In John 14:9-10 Jesus clearly states, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Regarding the 82 times the "Son of Man" was used in the New Testament, this explains His humanity. The "miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst", is because 1 Tim 3:16 states, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." Let's cross-reference this with Rev 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the First and the Last, which was dead, and is alive". To understand Who the First and the Last is, go to Isa 44:6 ""This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the First and I am the Last; apart from Me there is no God."

As far as Num 23:19: "God is not a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent:" we must understand this means God is not a carnal man, a sinful man. God was manifest in the flesh as 1 Tim 3:16 confirms, yet He did not have sin nor need of repentance from sin.

If Jesus was not begotten, He would not be the Son of Man, let alone the Son of God. Before He was begotten, He created all things as John 1:3 states. We only have One Creator, as Isa 44:24 confirms: "Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, 'I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone." Therefore, Jesus is God, our Creator, who even formed Himself in the womb of Mary.

You have declared Jesus Christ is our Savior. Now look at Isa 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me."

Speaking of God's Word, do you not speak your own word? If you were invisible, as God is invisible, how would you reveal yourself to those who could hear? Speak! Jesus is the revelation of the invisible God - His Word and His image.

You said, "Jesus came to do the work OF the Father to carry out the FATHER's Will and to glorify His FATHER... Not Himself". This is, once again, referencing His flesh as the Son of Man.

Who raised Jesus from the dead? This is covered in my hub. Jesus said, "Destroy this temple and in three days, I will raise it up." Did He lie? He is obviously God and God cannot lie. So you admit "at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD", right? Let's confirm who Jesus is in Isa 45:23 "I have sworn by Myself, The Word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance."

Yes, "Let's agree the Bible in NO WAY contradicts itself..." Amen.


DT 4 years ago

He also says He has a Father. This would make Him a liar if He had a Father. 1 Timothy 3:16 is actually a corrupted add-on that "God" can only be found in the KJV. How could God be justified? Conclusion: 1. Jesus ain't the Father. 2. He ain't God.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Oh, if theology were just that simple, DT. If you read the context of 1 Tim 3:16 (i.e. go to verse 15) it can only be referring to God, though 'He' is used in other versions of the Bible. If you're willing, may I invite you to read my hub "Answer to Lone Ranger: Is Jesus the Father?" http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Answer-to-... Hope to see you there.


DT 4 years ago

Aye, theology ain't a cake man's game. Out of curiosity have you explored "wrong" views? It'd be good to analyze a lot of different arguments. I'd like to answer some of your verses if I may right now.

1 Timothy 3:15 seems to be talking about the church of God as 1 Timothy 3:16 addresses what the mystery of the church is (that Christ finally appeared as God promised). I don't see anything about Jesus being God. Of course, it may depend on what Bible you are reading. My top three are the NIV, NLT, and NWT (although I am not a Jehovah's Witness, my God-ordained Savior died on a cross and I believe Original Sin is heresy).

Isaiah 43:3 and other Savior arguments are a little a bit weak as well considering that Moses and Othniel were both God-ordained Saviors to Israel but none of them are God. The appropriate exegetical context of those verses in Isaiah is that Jehovah is seperating Himself from pagan deities...nothing more.

Funny that you mention Luke 1:35. I saw a Muslim mistake this verse to mean the Holy Spirit was Gabriel (maybe a leftover from early Arian theology). You mention Isaiah 9:6 as well. I think Isaiah had more on his mind in regards to what the Messiah would fulfill. Isaiah 8:14 may be identity confusion trick. Isaiah 28:16 references that Jehovah is laying the stone. Quite possible that the author referred back to the one named Immanuel (Jesus was the sign that God was with us).

There's also some confusion on the title "Lord" you mention. I like to translate it "Lord-Messiah" in reference to Jesus.

As for the "little g" gods, that title is reserved for those who exercise dominion or act on behalf of God (Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34-36). Thus, Jesus can be considered a god without falling into polytheism. Another interesting question to ask about John 2:19-22 is "was Jesus speaking metaphorically?" It is quite possible that since He obeyed His God and Father, this is what willed God to raise Him from the dead and in a metaphorical sense, Jesus DID raise Himself from the dead!

As for John 14:9 - Jesus is the true representation of His God and Father. However, I think if He intended to mean that He was God the Father, He would have said "I AM the Father!"

I'll post a comment on your other page too.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi DT, “Wrong” views…I suppose I could say your comment appears to be so to me, but that’s based on my interpretation/logic of what’s written here in comparison to your ‘answers’, though I didn’t ask…

Speaking of 1 Tim 3:15, you’ve admitted the subject here is the Church of God and thus, verse 16, in context tells us God purchased the church with His OWN blood.

Speaking of Arian theology, this denies the deity of Christ, as it appears you are doing? If Jesus isn’t God, who is He? Just another man as Moses and Othniel? I had to actually chuckle reading about the over-shadowing of the Holy Spirit upon Mary, who gave birth to Jesus, when you insinuated Muslims assume this to be Gabriel ~ I suppose that’s the same ‘Gabriel’ who appeared to Muhammad? Lol Then, they also think the Holy Spirit is Muhammad, too. Seems to me, God condemned angels for taking on human form and copulating with human women. Makes sense they think this is actually what happened in the birth of Christ situation - I guess that would make Jesus one of the Nephilim and His Spirit that baptizes us an ‘evil spirit’, since that’s what the spirits of the dead Nephilim are called in the book of Enoch. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin (Mark 12:10; Luke 3:29)

Isaiah was a prophet of God and he was not mistaken or false. Emmanuel does not mean a ‘sign’ that God is with us, but means “God with us”!!

Obviously, you think Jesus was a mere man, maybe just a prophet. If you can’t confess that Jesus Christ is YHVH/Kurios (the only LORD), you are lost. He wasn’t a mere lord, as an earthly king. The Bible tells us He is the King of kings and LORD of Lords. Funny, it states the same thing about God – oh wait….because He IS God.

Jesus can be considered ‘a god’ without falling into polytheism? According to you, He’s on the same level as Moses and Othniel. I would then assume you DON’T worship Him, do you? If you do, then you are a polytheist, considering you don’t believe He is God. God alone is to be worshipped.

Jesus raised Himself from the dead. God raised Him from the dead. The Holy Spirit raised Him from the dead….did Three raise Him from the dead? NO. These passages are used at differing places in scripture recounting the same event. God is the Hoy Spirit (invisible); the Son of Man was his human, visible image, as was the Angel of the LORD (YHVH) in the Old Testament, and He is yet the Spirit and image of God because He is God.

Jesus did say “I AM the Father” if you understand what is translated into English for us in John 14:7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Since no one can see God and live (Ex 3:20), we must understand what Jesus was saying here. Look at John 1:18 “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” Read this in the NIV and NLT it states the same thing. You say you’re NOT a Jehovah’s Witness, then WHY are you reading the heretical NWT? Would you re-write the Bible because you don’t think you are wrong? Guess what? Even the NWT proves Jesus is God. I’ll give you a start to some youtube videos to prove it:

http://youtu.be/8VHfZBde2j4

I pray you will come to the Way, the Truth and the Light ~ God, your Savior, Jesus Christ.


Arletta 4 years ago

Hi, Judah's Daughter.

I am a heresiologist and I have no meaning to hurt you in any way shape or form but have you heard of a heresy called Doceticism?

The heresy was declared the very doctrine that the Antichrist spirit would teach (2 John 1:7) by Polycarp, who was a very close student of John. It basically taught that the Christ spirit fused with the spirit of a man and that the divine spirit left a body hanging on the cross.

This heresy has been adopted by the cult of Christian Science (knowingly) and a vast majority of Christianity (unknowingly). Now I only intend to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15) but I want to highlight one of the things that you mentioned in your article:

"God is omnipresent. He is not limited to one place. He was both the Father and the Son (God coming to us in the flesh) and yet remained Spirit outside of the person of Jesus Christ. This is why Jesus was both Son of Man and Son of God, and as a Man prayed to the Spirit, the Father."

What does this sound like to you? The Father spirit fusing with a man spirit while staying in Heaven? If Jesus is the Father but the Son of Man is not the Father then Jesus's appearance is an illusion and you have stumbled into this heresy. My friend, I care for you and am praying that you will see where you are headed. God loves you much!

Arletta


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Arletta, I certainly hope you publish some of your research for us, as I would love to read your material! I very much appreciate the delivery of your exhortation ~ I looked up "Doceticism", which teaches Jesus was just an illusion, not a real, flesh and blood Man. I never ever have believed or teach such things.

My statement, "God is omnipresent. He is not limited to one place. He was both the Father and the Son (God coming to us in the FLESH) and yet remained Spirit outside of the person of Jesus Christ. This is why Jesus was both Son of Man and Son of God, and as a Man prayed to the Spirit, the Father" does not indicate that the Son of Man (Jesus Christ) is NOT the Father in any way.

The body of Christ Jesus was the flesh of God the Father. That's what I'm saying. Let's look at Acts 20:27 & 28 "For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit [God] has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of GOD which HE purchased with HIS OWN BLOOD."

There is no 'fusing' here, but 'indwelling', when it comes to the Son of Man/Son of God, as the Holy Spirit of God (aka the Spirit of Christ) also indwells us by faith in Him. We are not God Himself because He indwells us, because we were created and have an earthly mother and father. While Jesus was born of a human woman, He did NOT have a human father (regarding conception). You and I must not only be born of water (the womb of Mom because of the will of Mom and Dad), but we must be re-born of the Spirit (the will of God) to be 'born again' and filled with the Holy Spirit of God/Christ. I don't see that as fusing, or an illusion, do you?

Now, if we take the invisible God and understand He made Himself known to us in a visible form (image), just as He appeared to Moses and Abraham (for instance) in the Old Testament, He yet allows those He chooses to 'see' and 'hear' Him today (i.e. Light with a voice ~ as in Paul's conversion experience ~ or as the 'Angel of the LORD'). Hear the testimonies of those who've experienced such awesome things. Our LORD is the same yesterday, today and forever, amen? I hope this brings some clarity to what I'm saying.


Arletta 4 years ago

This is where you venture into it:

"yet remained Spirit outside of the person of Jesus Christ."

It is not the same exact variation, it simply uses different terminology. Regarding Acts 20:28 - many scholars have stated a better translation would be

a) blood of His own Son

or

b) church of the Lord

You err in using this to prove that Jesus is God the Almighty. Now while you do not believe that the Christ spirit fused with a man you DO believe that God's spirit fused with a man and turn Jesus into two. This is the basics of Doceticism.

Here is one file I was able to stumble across:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY_uz5-FmHI

You also state in one of your hubs:

"If you don’t believe Jesus was God in the flesh, you might have a hard time understanding that once out of body, Jesus could be everywhere at once."

The Docetics also denied that Jesus died by teaching one of Him was alive and one of Him was dead. Virtually, any doctrine which teaches that Jesus is two beings (exactly what you teach) is a copycat of Doceticism. God loves you much.

Arletta


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Arletta, I wonder if you might be a Jehovah's Witness perhaps? Not sure that you would say or not...

I was thinking to myself, "How can one claim to be a 'heresiologist' unless they believe they know the absolute Truth?" I can see you do not believe Jesus is God, so to me, that is in error (indoctrination, ignorance, missing the mark). It's only "heresy", if you know better and choose to believe and teach something contrary to the Truth.

I have a question to trigger some thought to your spiritual mind ~ Do you believe your flesh is temporal and your spirit survives the death of the body? If you DO believe in what Jesus called "everlasting life" and Paul's teaching of being raised "incorruptible" (though we now live in corruptible bodies), then you should understand the eternal Spirit of God indwelling the tabernacle of the temporal flesh of the Son of Man, in order to shed blood for the forgiveness of sins. No one can forgive sin but God. For this reason, Jesus was crucified ~ the Son of Man shed God's holy blood. No one else could do this for us, but God our Savior, Yehowshua.

The beautiful thing is, Jesus' body (not born of a human father) did NOT see corruption. Had He stayed in that grave long enough, He would have, just like you and I. He was in a real, human body of flesh and BLOOD.

You've at least introduced me to "Doceticism". I have researched it enough to know that it denies Jesus Christ ever existed in the flesh. That is not what I believe or teach. I believe God came in the flesh. I have many, many hubs on this subject, based on the Bible ~ and therefore, if you are such a heresiologist, test away.

My only exhortation, in love, to you is to likewise test what you hold to be the truth to the Truth; for there is Only One Truth and Jesus said, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE." Only One Way; Only One Truth; and Only One [Source of] Life. Amen.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

P.S. Arletta, I have listed to the man on your youtube link. He knows a lot of truth, for I do not believe in God being three, separate 'persons', but One Spirit/One Person. However, I have listened to many of his videos and he, also can be refuted. He teaches some false doctrines, for sure. But, I give him kuddos for not going along with the corruption of the Catholic-coined term 'Trinity' (three in unity).


DT 4 years ago

Judah's Daughter,

You said to Arletta:

"How can one claim to be a 'heresiologist' unless they believe they know the absolute Truth?"

Is that not kind of what you are doing in this hub-page? "Let Me Tell You WHO GOD IS". My question is this:

How do you know so much about God and we do not?

As for Yeshua the Messiah as Savior...Acts 7:35 says Moses was made a Savior and Acts 5:31 shows Jesus was made our Savior. Now I have one more response on your argument...

You talked about how "only God can forgive sins and Jesus forgave sins thus Jesus is God". I believe everything can be answered scripturally and with prayer. The Bible never says He cannot delegate authority to someone. In fact:

Matthew 9:8

"Fear swept through the crowd as they saw this happen. And they praised God for sending a man with such great authority." - New Living Translation

God sent Jesus with the authority to forgive sins. Tell you what though...

You pray for me and I will pray for you. We will both strengthen each other and lead each other in our walk with Jesus Christ. Let's not claim to know more about God then the other but belittle ourselves and open ourselves to discussion. As for Jesus being "the Way the Truth and the Life", I believe He was claiming sole role as mediator between us and God since He also said "no one goes to the Father except through me" right afterward.

But like I said, you pray for me and I will pray for you. I am your brother, you are my sister.

Jehovah bless in the name of Jesus.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi DT,

I have been listening to the LORD, as He gave me this direction in answering you:

Regarding Moses: The Bible says in Gal 3:19 “Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator [Moses], until the seed [Jesus] would come to whom the promise had been made.” You might want to claim that Moses was a ‘god’ unto Pharaoh (Ex 7:1), therefore, Jesus is ‘a god’ unto us; however, if you read that passage in your NLT it states, “Then the LORD said to Moses, ‘Pay close attention to this. I will make you seem like God to Pharaoh, and your brother, Aaron, will be your prophet.’”

Understand that it was the ‘Husband’ of ‘Israel’ who gave the Covenant (Will and Testament) to Moses for them, and in order for that Covenant (Testament) to change, the ‘Husband’ had to DIE. Let’s look at Heb 9:16-17 “In the case of a will [testament], it is necessary to prove the death of THE ONE WHO MADE IT, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.” Truly, the Bible states that Jesus Christ is the ‘Bridegroom’ and in Jewish Law, the betrothal is the same as marriage. He is the “Husband” who gave the Testament and died to change it.

Rom 5:14 tells us, “Nevertheless DEATH reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a TYPE of Him [Christ] who was to come.” 1 Cor 15:45 (NLT) “The Scriptures tell us, ‘The first man, Adam, became a living person.’ But the last Adam--that is, Christ--is [there is no article] life-giving Spirit.’”

Revelation 1:8 tells us that the Almighty God died for us: "’I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, ‘who is and who was and who IS TO COME, the Almighty.’" Go down to vs. 17-18 “When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, ‘Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.’” Compare this to Is 44:6 “This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; apart from Me there is no God.’”

You asked me, “How do you know so much about God and we do not?” Judas (not Iscariot) asked Jesus about this in John 14:22 “Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, ‘Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?’" If we go back up in this chapter to vs. 7-9, WHAT was the ‘disclosure’? Jesus said, “If you really knew Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have SEEN Him.”

Philip said, ‘Lord, SHOW us the Father and that will be enough for us.’

Jesus answered: ‘Don’t you know Me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has SEEN Me has SEEN the Father. How can you say, ‘SHOW us the Father’?”

I will pray for you and you pray for me. The LORD desires we KNOW Him and for you and me, and all who love Him, He will give us the desires of our hearts (Ps 37:4). The LORD is my Shepherd (Ps 23:1) and Jesus revealed in John 10:11 “I am the good Shepherd; the good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.”


DT 4 years ago

Amen and amen! Jehovah does desire that we know Him!

To respond to some of your verses (of course, I have been trained differently than you :-)):

You spoke about Galatians 3:19 and Hebrews 9:16-17 - there is a footnote in my NLT Study Bible which states that it can also be translated:

"Now when someone makes a covenant, it is necessary to ratify it with the death of a sacrifice."

Which takes us back to the OT when Abraham made a covenant with YHVH. He was commanded to sacrifice Isaac, not himself. Thus, if G/J/HS are the same entity, where then is the substitutionary death?

You bring up that Jesus and God are both called "husband". My response:

Hebrews 1 describes Jesus as the heir of all things. Naturally, this would include the husbandhood. Everything except being the Supreme and Absolute Deity. Which brings me to another question which I do not get about Jesus being God -

Why would God inherit everything if He already had everything?

I use 1 Cor. 15:45 to prove Jesus was raised as a spirit-being. Angels are also spirit-beings.

Onto "First and Last" - I count five "Firsts and Lasts" in the Bible. Adam - first and last to be directly created from dust. Eve - first and last to be directly created from the rib of man. Saul - first and last of his family to have monarchy over Israel. God - first and last of all who have existed. Jesus - first and last to be created directly by God and raised from the dead (Colossians 1:15, 19).

Onto the "good shepherd". I again, count two shepherds.

Ezekiel 34:20-24 (NIV 1984)

"‘Therefore this is what Sovereign Yahweh says to them: See, I myself will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. Because you shove with flank and shoulder, butting all the weak sheep with your horns until you have driven them away, I will save my flock, and they will no longer be plundered. I will judge between one sheep and another. I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. I Yahweh will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I Yahweh have spoken."

Jehovah is placing Jesus as a shepherd over us. Thus, God is one shepherd and Jesus is another making two shepherds.

I just cannot see the Father dying on that cross but I can see Jesus in John 14:9 showing that He is the true representation of His God and Father, displaying Him perfectly to us.

Those are my thoughts on this subject. Continue to pray for me and I will continue to pray for you.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi DT,

You asked, “Which takes us back to the OT when Abraham made a covenant with YHVH. He was commanded to sacrifice Isaac, not himself. Thus, if G/J/HS are the same entity, where then is the substitutionary death?” The RAM was the death. Jesus Christ is our Righteousness, and in the OT the burnt offering was a RAM. You might enjoy my hub “A RAM for Abraham” http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Ram-fo... and another called “With His OWN Blood” http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/With-His-O... which points out the FACT that God abhors child sacrifice. Indeed, God purchased the Church with His OWN Blood (Acts 20:28).

You asked, “Why would God inherit everything if He already had everything?” We MUST go back to the vision of Daniel in Chapter 7. In verses 13-14 we read, “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”

Many have taught this to be a vision of Jesus being given these things, right?

Now, let’s go to the interpretation the angel gives to Daniel in vs. 27 “Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’”

You said, “I use 1 Cor. 15:45 to prove Jesus was raised as a spirit-being. Angels are also spirit-beings.” I take it you are insinuating that Jesus might be an angel? Not only is Jesus not an angel, we are not angels. Heb 1:13 (NLT) tells us, “And God never said to any of the angels, ‘Sit in the place of honor at My right hand until I humble your enemies, making them a footstool under your feet." Jesus is not an angel; and 1 Cor 6:3 states we, the saints, will judge the angels. Jesus said we will be ‘as the angels in heaven’ in that we will not marry (Mat 22:30).

Let’s talk about Heb 1:13’s terminology of ‘right hand’ and ‘footstool under your feet’ for a moment. With the understanding of Dan 7, we can see that the saints are the ‘Son of Man’ standing before the Ancient of Days, and if we look at Ps 16:8, we can see the LORD is at OUR right hand: “I have set the LORD always before me. Because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.” We can therefore, concede that ‘the right hand of God’ can have two meanings: There are times ‘Elohim’ refers to the LORD God (YHVH Elohim) and other times it refers to ‘the sons of the Most High’ (Ps 82:6). There are times when ‘Son of Man’ refers to Jesus Christ and others it refers to ‘the people of the Most High’. Jesus went before us. He became us. He stood in our stead. He took the punishment we deserve. The inheritance He originally gave us was given by us over to the ‘god of this world’ (2 Cor 4:4; Mat 4:8-9) at the fall. He is going to give that inheritance BACK to us!

Now, let’s talk about ‘footstool under your feet’. Read Ps 8:6-7 (NIV) “You made him ruler over the works of Your hands; You put everything under his feet: all flocks and herds, and the beasts of the field, the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas.” (cross ref Gen 1:28).

You talk about multiple firsts and lasts and multiple shepherds. You also may believe there is more than One God (if the LORD is God and Jesus is ‘a god’). Is believing and worshiping two gods any better than three? I do not believe there is more than One God, THE Sovereign LORD. Jesus is called ‘our only Sovereign’ in Jude 1:4. You are certainly invited to read my hub about this, too: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Jesus-Chri...

You said, “Jesus - first and last to be created directly by God and raised from the dead (Colossians 1:15, 19).” Jesus was not the first to be created by God; Adam was. Jesus was the first-born of the ‘new creation’, in that He was both born of water (Mary’s womb) and the Holy Spirit (the Father) – Ref John 3:5. While Jesus is the first to be raised from the dead, He is not the last to be raised. The resurrections are yet coming (Rev 20:5). David was an earthly shepherd, a type of ‘Christ’, also. He was a king of Israel, but Jesus is THE KING of Israel. David has not ascended (bodily) into the heavens (Acts 10:34). Jesus has. Jesus raised Himself from the dead (John 2:19 and 21). Two or Three did not raise Him, but the One LORD did: (Acts 10:40, etc.; Rom 8:11). Do not allow such thoughts as multiple firsts and lasts and shepherds to cloud your spiritual mind.

You said, “Therefore this is what Sovereign Yahweh says to them: See, I Myself will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep… I will judge between one sheep and another, etc.” Who is the Judge in Ezekiel 34:20-24? David? No; it is the LORD. Jesus declares Himself to be the Judge in Mat 7:21-23 (cross-ref Rev 20:11-17). It’s interesting that the ‘sheep’ (aka the ‘sons/people of the Most High) are placed on HIS RIGHT, don’t you think?


DT 4 years ago

Wow! You raise a LOT of great points. I am fascinated by your spiritual knowledge. First off, I do believe Jesus is a god in the same way kings and rulers are gods (Psalm 82:6). I must admit, your Oneness theology is actually far more sound than the UPC's teachings that "Son" just means flesh in these cases.

Now, you asked whether I believed Jesus was an angel or not. Yes and no. Not an angelic being, but indeed the Archangel Michael. Now onto Jude 1:4. You mention that Jesus is our "only Sovereign". Let's take a look at the context.

Jude 1:4

"I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."

Jesus is being separated from those trying to worm their ways into the church and Jude is reminding the readers that Jesus is the only one who has been made Sovereign by God (Acts 2:36). Onto the judge. I advise you to look up Acts 17:30-31 where Jesus is appointed judge.

Onto Acts 20:28 - there is a footnote in my Bible that reads some Greek manuscripts read "blood of His own Son".

Thanks for your response! Out of curiosity, how do I make a hub-page account myself?


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Well, thank you, DT. It is apparent that you study Jehovah's Witness material or are one, which I am not ~ as you know. I don't know the fullness of the teaching of the UPC; I do know no one I've ever heard preach addresses Daniel 7 and the interpretation, as I'm thankful you were able to receive.

The Archangel, Michael has a name that means 'Who is like God?'; this doesn't mean he is like God, but 'Who, among all created beings, is like God?' Michael is never called 'LORD'. In fact, speaking of the book of Jude (the brother of Jesus), it is recorded in vs. 9 that Michael would not rebuke the Devil ~ only the LORD could rebuke him. Don't you think Jude would call Jesus by His name here, rather than 'Michael'? Jesus is the CREATOR, not the created (John 1:3). And God created all things BY HIMSELF (Is 44:24).

Yehowshua (YHVH Saves) is the image of the invisible God, Who is Spirit. Whenever He appeared to man in the Old Testament, He could be heard or even seen. For this reason, the 'Word' or 'Messenger' of God is called the 'Angel of the LORD', whereas the other heavenly angels have a heirarchy. The highest order are the Seraphim, not even the Archangel. You can look up information on this anywhere.

God manifested Himself to mankind in various forms (the Greek word is 'morphe') throughout the Old and New Testaments: immortal flesh to Abraham and Jacob (Gen 18:2; 19:1; Gen 32:24, 28, 30); the Angel of the LORD (Ex 3:2; Josh 5:13; 6:2; Jud 6:11, 14), the Rock at Horeb (Ex 17:6. 1 Cor 10:4), clouds and fire (Num 14:14), the flesh of the Son of Man/Son of God (Is 7:14; Mat 1:23) and the dove at the baptism of Jesus (John 1:23; Mat 3:16). Even Jesus, after His resurrection morphed into another 'form' when He appeared to the two men walking on the road (Mark 16:12 - look up the word 'form', which is 'morphe') and later appeared as a blinding, bright Light that spoke to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:3-4). Surely, Jesus was the 'Angel of Yehovah' that gave the Law to Moses. He is the Word of Yehovah, the Spirit of Yehovah, the flesh of the Yehovah. He is "I AM" (John 8:58).

As a JW, you know that whenever you see the word 'Lord' or 'Kyrios' in the Greek New Testament, it is to be translated 'Yehovah' (Hebrew). 1 Cor 12:3 states, "no one can say Jesus is Lord [Kyrios/Yehovah], except by the Holy Spirit." Likewise, it is through Jesus (image) ALL things were created; it is through Jesus (image) ALL mankind, devils and demons will be judged.

Only God is THE Sovereign LORD. Only God is our Savior. Only God can forgive sins. Only God will Judge His creation. This God is YHVH (His name as Savior is Yehowshua/Yeshua/Jesus).

Those spoken of in Jude 1:4 deny this fact, even as you believe (yet, you can repent as the LORD leads you). Jesus is called our ONLY Sovereign AND LORD [Kyrios/Yehovah], which it is apparent you deny. Whether or not you live an immoral life is really not the issue; you probably outshine most, no doubt. How is it so many can be deceived? "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve."

Salvation by works [self-righteousness] vs. faith [the righteousness of God] is another subject and I have written on this as well (here's just one of many): http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Religion-v... I would say to understand Eph 2:8-10:

"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith—and this not from yourselves [based on your works], it is the gift of God — not by works [yourself], so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." In other words, "faith without works is dead" (James 2:20) just as "works without faith is dead".

Regarding Acts 20:28, look up the Greek to know what should be written: http://biblos.com/acts/20-28.htm You will NOT see the word 'son' (huios) in this passage at all.

The Catholics changed the Bible to fit the pagan doctrines of the Roman empire of the day. They inserted the word 'Lucifer' (Latin) in Isaiah 14; they added baptism and the three-fold name of God to Mat 28:19 (admitted it, too) and added the 'Trinity' theology to 1 John 5:7 (called the 'Joahannine Comma'). They took out the second Holy Commandment of God to teach their little 'Catechismites' to practice idol worship and repetative prayers. If you're looking for a Bible to tell you what you want to believe, you will no doubt find one.

The Catholic Textus Receptus is the main manuscript from where the KJV (the oldest Bible version) was translated (late 1500s). Joseph Smith has a completely different Bible (1800s); Jehovah's Witnesses have their own, too (1800s). I'd say I am thankful for the Tanakh, which out-dates them all. We can only test latter-day translations by the God (YHVH) of the Old Testament; not the other way around.

We were sternly warned by the Apostle Paul in Gal 1:8 (NLT) "Let God's curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you." Well, the NWT wasn't around then. It's preaching a different Jesus. Even those who use the KJV preach a different Jesus because of the 'Trinity' additions by the RCC. Mormons certainly teach a different Jesus. Look, the LORD delivered me out of ALL this 'stuff' ~ doctrines of men. He will do the same for you, if you love Him.

1 John 2:27 NLT "But you have received the Holy Spirit, and He lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what He teaches is true--it is not a lie. So just as He has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ." He wills for those who seek Him to know Him. So pray earnestly so, as I do, too.

To sign up for HubPages, just go to hubpages.com and click 'sign up'. It will take you step by step through the process.


DT 4 years ago

I will make an account and provide the answer for the hope that is within me. I am not a JW.

Now, you said:

"Surely, Jesus was the 'Angel of Yehovah'"

Amen, I agree.

Now compare Jude 1:9 with Zechariah 2:3:

"The LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?""

Going further into Zechariah 12:8

"On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them."

The Angel of Jehovah is "like God". Michael the Archangel quotes it. It carries the divine name though, not because it is Yahweh, but because it carries it as an act of agency. I hope I can answer more of your questions and that we can build each other up in our growth with Christ Jesus.

Now you mention that everyone but you has a different Christ. Isn't that a little bit unfair? Are you certain God has revealed this to you? Let's not break each other down but build each other up. You will pray for me and I will pray for you.

As for Acts 20:28, here are some Trinitarian confessions on the Greek translation:

Albert Barnes:

"It is retained, however, by Beza, Mill, and Whitby as the genuine reading. The most ancient mss., and the best, read "the church of the Lord," and this probably was the genuine text. It has been adopted by Griesbach and Wetstein; and many important reasons may be given why it should be retained. See those reasons stated at length in Kuinoel "in loco"; see also Griesbach and Wetstein. It may be remarked, that a change from Lord to God might easily be made in the transcribing, for in ancient mss. the words are not written at length, but are abbreviated. Thus, the name Christ ???????? Christos is written ChoS; the name God ????? theos is written ThoS; the name Lord ??????? kurios is written KOS; and a mistake, therefore, of a single letter would lead to the variations observable in the manuscripts. Compare in this place the note of Mill in his Greek Testament. The authority for the name "God" is so doubtful that it should not be used as a proof text on the divinity of Christ, and is not necessary, as there are so many undisputed passages on that subject."

Adam Clarke:

"Mr. Wakefield, who was a professed and conscientious Unitarian, decides for ??? ????, of God, as the true reading; but, instead of translating ??? ????? ????????, with his own blood, he translates, by his own Son, and brings some passages from the Greek and Roman writers to show that ????? and sanguis are used to signify son, or near relative; and, were this the only place where purchasing with his own blood occurred, we might receive this saying; but, as the redemption of man is, throughout the New Testament, attributed to the sacrificial death of Christ, it is not likely that this very unusual meaning should apply here. At all events, we have here a proof that the Church was purchased by the blood of Christ; and, as to his Godhead, it is sufficiently established in many other places. When we grant that the greater evidence appears to be in favor of ??? ??????, feed the Church of the Lord, which he has purchased with his own blood, we must maintain that, had not this Lord been God, his blood could have been no purchase for the souls of a lost world."

Jamieson-Faucet-Brown

"to feed the church of God-or, "the Church of the Lord." Which of these two readings of the text is the true one, is a question which has divided the best critics. The evidence of manuscripts preponderates in favor of "THE Lord"; some of the most ancient Versions, though not all, so read; and Athanasius, the great champion of the supreme Divinity of Christ early in the fourth century, says the expression "Church of God" is unknown to the Scriptures. Which reading, then, does the internal evidence favor? As "Church of God" occurs nine times elsewhere in Paul's writings, and "Church of the Lord" nowhere, the probability, it is said, is that he used his wonted phraseology here also. But if he did, it is extremely difficult to see how so many early transcribers should have altered it into the quite unusual phrase, "Church of the Lord"; whereas, if the apostle did use this latter expression, and the historian wrote it so accordingly, it it easy to see how transcribers might, from being so accustomed to the usual phrase, write it "Church of God." On the whole, therefore, we accept the second reading as most probably the true one. But see what follows."


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hello DT, you have kept me busy today. So you’re not a JW. I recently had a conversation with someone who was ‘studying to BECOME one’. What type of initiation is required? (That’s really not a question). I have not asked ‘questions’ of you. I am simply responding to your statements.

Regarding Zehariah 1:8, you must read it properly: "On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David [who goes before the feeblest among them] will be like God = [like God, Who is the Angel of the LORD going before the house of David]."

I did not say everyone has a different Jesus than me. If they are not following the Bible (the Tanakh) and understanding the New Testament based on the Tanakh, believing Jesus is NOT the Almighty God, they believe in a different Jesus.

Based on all your posted commentators, are you eluding to the LORD’s first commandment, “I AM the LORD, your God” meaning the LORD and God are not the same? Frankly, it doesn’t matter to me whether the text reads “the Church of the LORD or the Church of God”. The Greek link I gave you shows the word ‘Theou’ is used, not Kyrios. God is the word. God is the LORD. Do you not call Yehovah ‘God’? Are you attempting to say, YHVH is the LORD and Jesus is God or vise versa? Jesus Christ is the head of the Church. He is the Bridegroom, the Husband to ‘Israel’. He is God, our Savior. He is Almighty God, the LORD. Jesus Himself, the Tanakh and the New Testament inspired scriptures (not the insertions by the RCC) declare it to be so.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, I have not posted the entirety of your last comment as you have obviously made the decision and hold to your beliefs as follows:

"I believe Jesus is the Lord-Messiah and God is YHVW."

"I think that it is those who confess Jesus as God the Almighty who are on the wrong path."

There is nothing more I can do for you here. You provided links of teachings that support your doctrine; I have written several hubs that support what the Bible teaches. You are welcome to continue reading, or not. You have that choice.

Thank you for the opportunity to minister to you and I do pray the Seed of Truth has somehow planted in your heart and will grow to bring you into the full knowledge of Christ.


DT 4 years ago

Thank you for the debate. If you are interested in analyzing the different arguments used to support the Trinity doctrine vs Oneness doctrine, I would recommend this following link:

http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-modalism.htm

While being pro-Trinitarian, they certainly do give a synopsis of why Oneness doctrine is wrong using numerous Oneness quotes.

I would also recommend the book "Divine Truth or Human Tradition". It pits Trinitarians, Arians, and Socinians in one big book, reaching the conclusion that the Trinity "Jesus is God" doctrine is actually not clearly presented in the Bible. I do hope you can analyze the varying opinions without getting stuck on one. You may hold to Oneness, you may not. Just don't make up your mind on "absolute truth" just yet. Everyone has their own variation of the Trinity. You have yours and I have mine.

God bless you in the name of Jesus of Nazareth.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, I do not hold to the 'Trinity' doctrine, which states the Son is not the Father, and neither are the Holy Spirit. You state the same thing. The only difference is, Trinitarians believe all three are God; you do not. They are closer to the Truth, but have missed it, while you deny the Truth.

If Jesus is not God and He is called our Savior and LORD (Luke 2:11), God lied in saying He is the only Savior (Is 43:11), and the Bible lies by calling Jesus our Savior and LORD, while declaring there is only One LORD (Eph 4:5).

It's interesting you hear the Oneness vs. Trinity debates and agree moreso with the Trinitarians? When I listen, I understand the Oneness, which if the Trinitarians understood, there would be no debate (I have not listened to your link, but have spent hours listening to debates). As I said, both you and they do not believe Jesus is the Only True God, the Almighty ~ His name as LORD is YHWH ~ "I AM". His name as Savior is "YeHoWsHua".

And, by the way, I didn't even know there was such a thing as 'Oneness' believers out there. Even they may explain some things in a way I would explain differently (all debates are subject to human error); nevertheless, I do agree with modalism/monarchianism when it comes to the 'Person' of God.

Rom 3:4 "Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: 'So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.'"

1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is THE true God, and eternal life."

I've been writing and ministering to people of varying doctrines long enough to know I cannot be swayed into dethroning the LORD, Jesus Christ. Won't happen.


DT 4 years ago

I am not trying to "dethrone" our Lord Jesus Christ. I am trying to promote the scriptural truth that Jesus is subject to God (Revelation 3:12, Revelation 2:26-28, John 20:17, John 14:28, Acts 2:36).

Now onto the title Savior. We need to realize that the context of those Isaiah passages was God trying to seperate Himself from pagan deities. If we look at Acts 7:35 her:

""So God sent back the same man his people had previously rejected when they demanded, 'Who made you a ruler and judge over us?' Through the angel who appeared to him in the burning bush, God sent Moses to be their ruler and savior."

So assuming "only God is Savior and Jesus is Savior and therefore God" is actually erroneous since it would make Moses God.

Onto Luke 2:11. The Greek favors the disposition Christ YHVH. I believe the NWT makes note of that even though keeping the translation Christ the Lord.

According to one blogspot which was refuting UPC's 60 questions on the Godhead,

"31. Does the Bible say that Christ is the Lord? Yes. Luke 2:11.

Trinitarians agree. For the record, Arians do as well."

If it means we believe "Christ Yahweh", this blog is correct. Christ was given the name as a title. Not because He is Yahweh but because Yahweh named His annointed one after Himself.

Onto 1 John 5:20 - the verse is affirming that the "one who is true" is the true God. Although this verse is exceptionally difficult to discern and even Trinitarian scholar Albert Barnes thought it difficult and needed to demonstrate why he thought it applied to Jesus. Thus, 1 John 5:20 MUST be used with caution and MUST be backed up with other scriptures to prove a point.

God bless you in the name of Jesus.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, you said, “I am not trying to "dethrone" our Lord Jesus Christ. I am trying to promote the scriptural truth that Jesus is subject to God (Revelation 3:12, Revelation 2:26-28, John 20:17, John 14:28, Acts 2:36).”

Remember we discussed Daniel 7 and the ‘handing over of the kingdom’ to 'the Son of Man'? It is the saints (Son) that are subject to God and it is the LORD Jesus who hands over the kingdom to God (Elohim), the saints. I thought you received this truth, but obviously, you still have some indoctrination to overcome. I have a hub called “1 Corinthians 15:28 – Jesus subject to the Father?” http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/1-Corinthi... I probably should write a hub called “The Flip Side”, which is only touched on in the link I’ve provided you.

We’ve already discussed Moses being a mediator/savior. It was the LORD that worked through Him BEFORE the Seed [Jesus Christ] would come, who forever accomplished all the ordinances of the First Covenant (Heb 7:28) as the 'last Adam' (1 Cor 15:45) to establish the New. Again the Author of the Covenant must die in order to change it, not the offspring of the Author (Heb 9:16-17).

You said, “Onto Luke 2:11. The Greek favors the disposition Christ YHVH. I believe the NWT makes note of that even though keeping the translation Christ the Lord.” You also said, “Onto 1 John 5:20 - the verse is affirming that the "one who is true" is the true God. Although this verse is exceptionally difficult to discern and even Trinitarian scholar Albert Barnes thought it difficult and needed to demonstrate why he thought it applied to Jesus. Thus, 1 John 5:20 MUST be used with caution and MUST be backed up with other scriptures to prove a point.”

See, you’re spending all your time trying to argue with the Word, rather than believing what it says. The Bible will not contradict itself. When there IS a contradiction (i.e. Mat 28:19 and 1 John 5:7), we can research and find out easily those passages were altered by man. God is faithful to answer us. He said tares would be sown among the good seed (the Word), so He will show us the tares, that we might pull them out and burn them in the fire (Mat 13:25; Luke 8:11; Mat 13:30). The Enemy has not only sown tares in the unadulterated Word of God, but he has ‘enlightened’ latter-day servants of his to actually re-write the Holy Word of God under names of men not even mentioned in the Bible (and the Bible IS a book of prophecy): i.e. Joseph Smith (The Book of Mormon, inspired by the fallen angel, Moroni), the Qur’an, inspired by a fallen angel calling himself ‘Gabriel’ and the New World Translation, inspired by the Watchtower. Interestingly, the fallen angels are called ‘The Watchers’. Get out, while you can, for Judgment is coming.


DT 4 years ago

You said:

"When there IS a contradiction (i.e. Mat 28:19 and 1 John 5:7), we can research and find out easily those passages were altered by man."

1. I agree. Also, 1 Timothy 3:16 (should read "He who" not God), Philippians 2:5-11 (should not read "thought it not robbery to be equal with God" but instead "did not think equality with God"), Revelation 1:11 (alpha and omega clause should be eliminated), etc.

2. Now I request that you do research for Trinitarians and Arians alike (who supposedly have a different Christ and are going to Hell because we don't believe Jesus is God the Father) on Matthew 3:16-17, Revelation 4-5, 1 Corinthians 11:3, and all the other passages where the Father and Son (Jesus) "appear" to be two distinct beings so that we will not be deceived by God into taking a different Christ. We would NOT want any of that to happen.

P.S.

Sorry if I came out rude.

Christian love.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you for pointing out Rev 1:11. I checked the Conservative Interlinear and ‘Alpha and Omega’ is no there: http://studybible.info/ACVI/Revelation%201:11, while in the Interlinear Greek NT, it is: http://studybible.info/IGNT/Revelation%201:11 Nonetheless, First and Last is definitely seen in Rev 2:8 in both the conservative and IGNT. This, in comparison with Isaiah 44:6 confirms that Jesus IS the Almighty God.

To understand 1 Tim 3:16, we must read vs. 15, which confirms it is God that is the subject of vs. 16. This truth also aligns with Rev. 2:8.

It’s irrelevant how Phil 2:6 is worded there; it means the same thing.

I’ve explained Mat 3:16-17. If you understand God is both invisible and visible in this passage, and sent the dove as a sign to John the Baptist (John 1:33), we don't have a 'Trinity' of persons.

Not sure what you’re referring to in Rev 4-5 (did you mean 4:5)? Regarding 1 Cor 11:3, if you read the Greek, it states, “The head of every man is the anointed; the head of every wife [1185] is the husband [435]; and the head of the anointed is God.” Here’s the Greek Interlinear for reference: http://studybible.info/ACVI/1%20Corinthians%2011:3 Consider the Greek word for ‘man’ in Romans 5:12 is #444. The Husband is Christ and He is the head of the Church, as the earthly husband is the head of his wife, when it comes to being the ‘savior of the body’. Understand that even in 1 Cor 11:7 (just four verses later), it is made clear that the husband is not to cover his head, as he is the image and glory of God. Likewise, Jesus Christ, as the Husband, who is God, does not ‘cover’ His head.

In answering to “other passages where the Father and Son (Jesus) "appear" to be two distinct beings”, again God is both invisible and visible all throughout the Bible. If you categorize invisible and visible as two, that is the explanation.

You have not been rude. I hope I have not been either. I appreciate your respectful communication, DT.


DT 4 years ago

I meant Revelation 4-5. Where God the Father is sitting on the throne and is declared "thrice Holy" and "creator of the universe" and is worshipped in such a way to declare His Supremacy over everything. Then Jesus, the Lamb, walks up and receives the scroll and He is given due homage, not because He is God, but because He was made worthy by God the Father to receive such homage. We need to understand Philippians 2:5-11 to understand why the Lamb was worshipped. He was worshipped because He was given a name above the others. Worship is a relative term and can mean homage, honour, or obeisance given to one in higher status.

Okay, so let's say that there was an invisible part and a visible part of God at the baptism. You still need to address how it proves that Jesus is God the Father. Besides, Trinitarians do believe that there was an invisible part and a visible part at the baptism since they teach one substance. However, I do not see one substance or one person there. I see God speaking to Jesus and that G and J are two beings.

Additionally, you keep bringing up "First and Last" and other titles to prove your arguments. I thought I already addressed these. Anyway, though, I present you with my own synopsis of the names and titles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR_bjzY9GFw&feature...

Christian love.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, Jesus prayed to the Spirit of God as a man because He walked in our stead. He (His flesh) was made (in the womb of Mary) a little lower than the angels ~ human (Heb 2:9). Read Mat 20:28 and Phil 2:6-8. If we go back to the OT prophecy, we can ponder Ps 110:1, which is fulfilled in Mat 22:44; Luke 20:42-43 and Acts 2:34-35. Also, Ps 45:6 fulfilled in Heb 1:8. We’ve also looked deeper into the meaning of these passages, based on Dan 7; Gen 1:26 and Ps 8:6-8. Jesus made it possible to restore the kingdom of God and man as it was in the beginning.

You will notice all throughout Revelation there is only one Throne. God is both the Father and the Lamb. Whenever you see "God and the Lamb", the Greek word used for ‘and’ is ‘kai’, which means ‘even/also’. He is the same God.

Let’s look at Rev 21:5-7 for instance: “He who was seated on the throne said, ‘I am making everything new!’ Then He said, ‘Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.’ He said to me: ‘It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.”

Let’s now compare WHO gives the drink without cost from the spring of the water of life in John 4:14 “but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life." So, He will be our God and we will be His son (sons and daughters)? YES.

These are the words spoken by the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega, our LORD, our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.


DT 4 years ago

Okay, I wrote down a commentary this week on the Living Water. The Living Water is the Holy Spirit (John 7:38-39). God gives it to Yeshua the Messiah who in turns gives it to us (Matthew 28:18 as well as other verses in John indicate God and Messiah are both involved in giving the Holy Spirit). This is why the Holy Spirit can be considered both God's Spirit and Christ's Spirit. God has given it to Jesus so that Jesus may send it to us.

I agree that there is one throne in Heaven. But Jesus takes seat on the throne with the Father.

Revelation 3:21 -

"To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne."

Now note: if Jesus and His Father are not two distinct persons or beings here, we cannot sit down with Yeshua on His throne and Yeshua lied unto us!

Now, I'm looking at the word "kai" right now on an online lexicon, and while you are right that it can also mean even/also, it can also read "and" and I believe it is more properly rendered "and". As for Jesus as the "Alpha and Omega", He is the Alpha and Omega of God's creation. In His own distinct way, He is "Alpha and Omega" and "First and Last" just as God is "First and Last" and "Alpha and Omega" in His own distinct way. One refers to status as eternity (God) the other refers to status as the First and Highest created being (Jesus).

I want to ask one more question:

What exactly are you seeing in 1 Timothy 3:15-16 that I am not because I see no evidence based on the context that since "he who" is the correct rendering, that it is proof that Jesus is "God manifested in the flesh"?

Thanks!

Christian love.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, Oh if you could truly understand what you've written about the Living Water! The Spirit is like the Water, yes. That Water (God) is poured into the visible image (i.e. a pitcher) = YeHoWsHua, is poured into us. The Spirit of God IS the Spirit of Christ (Rom 8:9). I have a hub on this very subject called "The Gospel in a Glass": http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-GOSPEL...

Regarding Rev 3:21: We agree that Jesus was the Son of Man. In the first three chapters of Revelation, He is identifying with His Bride, the Church (seven churches) as He did as the resurrected Christ (Mediator/High Priest). Just as He, as the Son of Man, overcame and sat on the Father's throne (His throne), we (as He) who overcome will sit with Him on His throne (the Father's throne): He is us and we in Him.

Alpha ‘and’ Omega can be rendered any way you want with the word 'kai': Alpha, even the Omega; Alpha, also the Omega, etc. There is only One Alpha and Omega. God (invisible) created all things through Jesus (spoken Word) and visible image (fashioning man from the ground and woman from the man's rib). He even created Michael. Michael existed before the Son of Man (Jesus). Understand the Son of Man was not created or 'made' until He was conceived in Mary’s womb. Because He was conceived by God (the Holy Spirit), it was from that moment on He was called the "Son of God" (Luke 1:35).

Jude speaks about Michael disputing with the Devil over the body of Moses (1:9), and we know the Son of Man/Son of God was not in existence yet. Jesus declares He existed before Abraham as "I AM" (John 8:58), and since there's no copulation in heaven (Mat 22:30), He did not become a 'Father' until the day the "only begotten God/Son" (John 1:18) was born. In the Old Testament He was called the "Father" of Israel, because out of Her He would be born (Ex 4:22; Ps 2:7; Acts 13:33), the ‘firstborn’ of the NEW creation (last Adam) – Col 1:15; 1 Cor 15:45. He was predestined to come and die on the cross as we can see in Rev 13:8 "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." He didn’t die prior to His death at Calvary (Heb 9:26).

You know, it's only the NWT that inserts such a heretical doctrine of Jesus creating all [other] things. The Greek DOES NOT SAY THAT. Jesus created ALL THINGS: John 1:3 "Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made." This includes Himself as the Son of Man/Son of God.

In 1 Tim 3:15-16 do you see the word "Jesus" or "Son"? No. You DO, however, see the word "God"; therefore, "He" in the Greek of vs. 16 refers to God in vs. 15.


DT 4 years ago

It'd be like an English speaker talking about the church of God one moment and then talking about the mystery of the church of God's faith. "He who" could refer to anyone. In this case, it obviously refers to Christ. So I see no evidence. I know the NLT translates "Christ was". So we really cannot build an argument from the context of 1 Timothy 3:15-16 unless we REALLY insist on our own opinions. Now as for Colossians 1:15, I'm not going to claim to be a Greek scholar here, but this works best when one accepts the scriptural truth that Jesus and His Father are two distinct beings. "Pas" does not mean "absolutely everything". God the Father created everything (1 Corinthians 8:6). A good question to ask Trinitarian apologist James White would be "why 'absolutely everything' here but 'absolutely everything except Christ' here". "Pas" can often be used in a collective sense implying a certain amount or certain type. Now the Bible actually never calls Jesus the creator. He is the agency of the creation but not the creator Himself. The creator is the Father. And yes, the spirit of God IS the spirit of the Christ because they both own it. It is God's active force. He gave it to Jesus so that Jesus could give it to us and so that we could be free! :-)


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

This is getting to be ridiculous babble, DT. You're obviously fighting the Truth that Jesus is none other than the Father God (Spirit) in the flesh. If Jesus Christ (as the Son of God) was manifest in the flesh, then the Son was a pre-existent, lesser god or was begotten (born) before His incarnation, which I have proven to you could not happen. The LORD declares in Is 43:10 "Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me." John 1:3 states ALL things were created through Him (the Word, who was/is God) and that's what it means.

If I say "All" my pillows, then that means all my pillows, not all pillows. However, John 1:3 does not distinguish anything less than ALL things, including the flesh of the Son of God. I'm not going to keep listening to your false, twisted Jehovah's Witness doctrine. If you won't receive the Truth, it is your own rejection of it that will be counted against you on the Day of Judgment. There will be no excuse.

I won't be posting any further comments from you on this hub. I do pray your understanding will be opened, as Jesus did for His disciples in Luke 24:45.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, if you are sincerely asking questions you would like answered, please feel free to email me at judahsdaughter@gmail.com. I also suggest reading the hub links I've provided to you. We simply will not continue back and forth in a 'debate' here. I will minister to you as God leads me to do, but not to banter.


Denise 4 years ago

I am still struggling with trying to make sense of who God is. As far as I understand so far. God is a spirit, like the bible refers to emotions as spirits as well. People don't understand how the brain works back then. They haven't for ages until recently. We already know that If the brain's damaged, we're screwed as who we are as a person. ie. brain damage. we become different. Our brains control the emotions and we know that. But the problem is, people refer to emotions as spirit, they think the spirit of anger makes someone angry but really, its the brain chemical that makes that emotion not some ghost. What if God in the physical reality, can be understood and experienced as a perfect goodness and unconditional love that cannot be intertwined with sin because they are polar by nature? God is fully unconditional love, and on the other side, in the spiritual reality, We will see him as he is. We can see his footsteps by looking at the spiritual beauty that follows anything here in the physical realm. It is the spirit of God in us that does good things. Bible says the spirit of God has mercy, goodness,kindness, patience, etc. Anyone that possess these qualities has the Father in them. It is the very image of God in anyone that possess those qualities? maybe? Like Jesus said to them- You see The Father in me... you have seen what I have done, my qualities that only the Father possess has shown for years. You have seen the Father in me. We will know when we see God. the point is, the carnal man by nature, we are selfish, we hurt others by impulse. Maybe God just wants us to evolve as a man and ditch the carnal man in us, getting rid of the beast that controls our carnal nature and take control and make the new evolved creation default in us instead of the carnal creature default? I am familiar of L Ray Smith's website and his teachings. He does have the gift of spiritual discernment and has skills in spotting mistranslations. It is indeed an eye opener- but I have to take everything with a grain of salt. He's great at exposing heresies but then again, he has his own opinions and it's very hard to change someone's mind of things once it's made up.He's camped out already so is his followers. The point what i'm saying is. People like to camp out after a long time in the wilderness and give up as soon as they think they found the truth, but really- truth is always evolving as we learn more information. We have to keep on going till there is no more questions. it's his forum that treat Ray as if he's the pope and shunt anyone that upset them with new information. that is the problem. Funny thing is.. Ray shows the scriptures that say to come out of religions or I say boxes. Yet, his forum puts people in a box. That is why we are to come out of the box and love one another and never usurp anyone no matter what because we are all brothers and sisters no matter what box we were born into. we just need to come out of it and become one flock. Love will unite us all one day. I am sure of that.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Denise, I’m not aware that spirits ARE emotions or vise versa in the Bible. For example, we could read 2 Tim 1:7, “God has not given you a spirit of fear”, which could be interpreted that way, but if we compare it to Rom 8:15 we have greater understanding: “For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again”. The root of emotions is the spirit behind it. Having the Spirit of God results in not having the emotion of fear. God is the Holy Spirit, yet we cannot say that God is pure emotion.

While I understand what you’re saying about the physical body being damaged, resulting in an inability to function normally; the same goes for the spirit man. Emotions are the result of what spirit controls us. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is self-control, so if someone cannot control their anger it is a reflection of their spiritual condition. Yes, there are those who have brain damage and therefore, to have behaviors as a result of that, is not spiritual, but physical. These bodies are flesh and temporal. They will perish. The spiritual bodies we shall have at the resurrection(s) will not be flesh and blood or subject to such things.

You stated well, “It is the Spirit of God in us that does good things. Bible says the Spirit of God has mercy, goodness, kindness, patience, etc. Anyone that possesses these qualities has the Father in them.” Your following statements are summed up in the fact that when we see Jesus, we are seeing the Father. John 14:7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Likewise, Jesus stated in vs 9 “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '?” Yes, the Spirit of God, which is the Spirit of Christ IN us produces the fruit of the Spirit. By this fruit we know who are the children of God and who are not (1 John 3:10).

2 Cor 3:17-18 states, “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all [who have received the Holy Spirit - those Paul is speaking to], with unveiled face [there are those still under the veil - 2 Cor 4:4], beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.”

I appreciate what you’ve stated about L. Ray Smith. While it’s good to expose what one considers to be ‘heresy’, to replace it with another ‘heresy’ does NO GOOD whatsoever. He believes “Love will unite us all one day”, but love is NOT in the children of the devil. They separate themselves from God, for God indeed gives them a choice, for He WILL draw ALL men ~ He keeps that promise, but not ALL will be saved (John 12:32; Rom 6:16; Luke 13:23). If all are going to be saved through judgment (time in the Lake of Fire), there was no need for the shed blood of our LORD God, Jesus Christ. There would be no need for grace, mercy and forgiveness. I’ve spent years responding to the doctrines of Universal salvation, and it is a DANGEROUS and FALSE one. Keep pressing on in seeking the Truth, for Jesus promises, “Seek and ye shall find.” (Mat 7:7) AMEN.


Ariel 4 years ago

"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Please explain. "The authority I have received from my Father." Please explain. "My God." Please explain.

All quotes by who you claim to be is God the Father. Was God deceiving us?


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Ariel, It's quite simple. Jesus became Adam (you and me), in every way, so He could give us back the authority the first Adam relinquished to the Serpent, so it will be as it was in the beginning.

1 Cor 15:45 "So it is written: 'The first man Adam became a living being'; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit."

2 Cor 5:21 "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

Daniel had a vision in 7:13: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a Son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed."

This dream was interpreted by the angel in vs. 18 & 22: (Note who the Son of man is interpreted to be)

"But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever—yes, for ever and ever.’..."until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom."

Gen 1:26 (Creation of Adam and Eve before the fall): "And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Ps 8:6-9 "You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet, All sheep and oxen, And also the beasts of the field, The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea, Whatever passes through the paths of the seas."

1 Cor 15:27 "For He hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son [saints of the Most High - Dan 7] also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Col 3:11 "a renewal [back to the creation] in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all."

Halleluyah!!!


Ariel 4 years ago

What about Revelation 3:12 where He says He has a God?

Revelation 2:28 where He says He receives authority from His Father?

How can there be a receiver if there is not a seperate and distinct giver?


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Ariel, the last enemy of death has not yet been destroyed where mankind is concerned ~ this will be complete when all are resurrected and go to their final destinations: Paradise or Gehenna.

In the flesh, God in Jesus Christ was our sacrifice; in the Spirit God in Jesus Christ is our Mediator between flesh and spirit. In the first three chapters of Revelation, Jesus is speaking to the seven churches as Mediator, the way He would if He were still in mortal flesh. He spoke this way to His disciples after His resurrection, before His ascension, too.

He, in every way, became you and me, mankind. He paved the Way and is the Way. God does not lie, for His Spirit is holy and pure Truth. God is the Creator, the giver of life and is eternal life for all who believe. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. We cannot come to the Father, even receive of His holy presence, if it wasn't for His redemption through Jesus Christ.

Acts 20:28 tells us that God purchased the Church with His OWN blood. Why? Because He abhors child sacrifice!

Jeremiah 7:31; 19:5 and 32:35 (NLT) “They have built pagan shrines at Topheth [to Baal – 19:5], the garbage dump in the valley of Ben-Hinnom, and there they burn their sons and daughters in the fire. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed my mind to command such a thing!” A horrible deed! For this reason, He even provided the RAM for Abraham! I have a hub by that title, too.

Jesus is the exact representation, visible image and presence of God, who is invisible Spirit (Heb 1:3; Col 1:15). Jesus appeared in His resurrected body and showed His hands and side to Thomas (Luke 24:39). Jesus appeared in a different form [morphe] to the two men walking on the road (Mat 16:12). Jesus appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus as invisible "Light" (Acts 9:3-4). He says to us that "My sheep hear My voice" (John 10:27) and calls Himself the "Good Shepherd who lays down His life for His sheep." (John 10:11, 14) Ps 23:1 tells us Yehovah (the LORD) is my Shepherd. There is only one Shepherd (John 10:16). There is only one God (Ex 20:2-3). What a beautiful Truth!!!

Here's a hub I would like to share with you on the topic of "His OWN Blood": http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/With-His-O...

May our LORD God and Savior, Jesus Christ be praised!!


Ariel 4 years ago

"God does not lie".

Amen! This is why I believe Jesus Christ is inferior to God the Father.

May our Lord Jesus Christ be praised indeed for He is worthy to take the scroll!

I'd rather not debate you though. I do not believe Acts 20:28 is a geat argument to convince anyone as to whether or not Jesus is God. I've heard some commentators say "blood of His own Son" is a better translation.

God bless you!

~Ariel


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Airel, the Lamb is God as our sacrifice, Jesus Christ, as our High Priest and Mediator until the last enemy of death is destroyed; the Lamb, Jesus Christ, is God (the Most High, invisible Holy Spirit) to man and man to God; He is redemption, restoration, the life-giving Spirit, our Creator.

In Rev 5, the Lamb, in context is established in vs. 5 "Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.” This is speaking of God incarnate, not God as Spirit.

God was both Spirit and flesh when Jesus was born and lived on earth as the Lamb. Revelation is a book of visions and represents various time periods throughout history and the future. For instance, Rev 12:4-5 is speaking about the birth of Christ and His resurrection: "The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne."

There are many hubs I've written to give the massive amount of biblical evidence as to God's Person in Jesus Christ, both Old and New Testaments.

God does not lie; it is man's interpretation of the scriptures that have been misunderstood and taught ever since the Roman Catholic Church made alterations to the original text (to which they've admitted), having inserted them into the Textus Receptus from which all our Bibles, since the late 15th century have been translated. The New Testament must be verified by the Old; not the other way around.

Acts 20:28 does not use the word 'Son', so to insert it is a mistranslation. Mat 24:36 also does not contain the word 'Son' in its original text: http://studybible.info/ACVI/Matthew%2024:36

Ask God your questions, as I did and He will answer you, providing you are willing to receive the answers. Indoctrination is a strong-hold that is most difficult to break through. I know, first-hand.


Ariel 4 years ago

"This is speaking of God incarnate, not God as Spirit."

How is this different from the Trinity heresy?

I will search for God on my own and study who He is. Christ is forever subject to God.

Praise God! Praise Jesus!

Revelation 7:10

"and crying out with a loud voice, saying, 'Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!'"

Two distinct and separate beings. One in purpuse.

~Ariel


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Ariel, you are flesh and spirit are you not? Does that make you two persons? No. The word 'and' is the Greek word 'kai', which means 'even' or 'also' (the same) - for instance, YOU are flesh and spirit.

Here is an excerpt taken from my hub "Should You Believe In the Trinty? 2 of 2":

"‘God and the Lamb’ is equal to the usage of ‘God and Savior’ shown in 54 other passages. God is also called ‘God and Redeemer’ (Isa 44:6; 48:17; Ps 78:35; Acts 7:35). The prophets not only called the LORD God ‘God and Savior’ (Is 45:15; Mic 7:7; 1 Chr 16:35, Ps 65:5; Hab 3:18), the Apostles referred to Jesus as 'God and Savior' (1 Tim 1:1; Tit 2:13; 2 Pet 1:1)."

Believe me, anything you can ask me about separating God into persons, I've already asked the LORD. I pray the answers I give you will plant the Seed, which you will take to the LORD in prayer for confirmation of the Truth. All of us love the Truth and if I thought I had found it, never to ask questions, I would not have grown in the knowledge of Him.

2 Pet 3:18 states, "but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord [Kyrios/Yehovah] and [kai] Savior Jesus Christ [is this two persons? No.]. To Him [singular pronoun] be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen."

And, speaking of Jesus Christ being our LORD and Savior, let's go back to Isaiah 43:11 to the Word of Yehovah: "I, even I, am the LORD, And there is NO savior besides Me."


Ariel 4 years ago

I'm uncomfortable with people who say that they have been given a revelation from God. Joseph Smith received one.

As for "flesh and spirit", are the interactions we see in the gospels between Jesus and His Father mere illusions?

I believe you have a view on God that is false and that you are dangerously close to losing your salvation.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Ariel, Joseph Smith's 'revelation' teaches that God is three literal persons of flesh and bone - the Trinity doctrine to its falsest (if falsest is even a word)! The more we get away from One God, the more in danger of violating the Truth we are. Likewise, to deny the fact that Jesus is Yehovah (LORD) would cause me to question that one's professed salvation.

1 Cor 12:3 "...no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord [Kyrios/Yehovah],' except by the Holy Spirit."

Joseph Smith's and even the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines cannot be proven by the Holy Bible, so they had to write their own 'bibles'. I use OUR BIBLE to prove the Truth.

Jesus became you and me in every way. This is why He said 'My Father is greater than I' (Jn 14:28) and taught us to pray, 'Our Father, who is in heaven' (Mat 6:9). Jesus was 'made' (through the womb of Mary) a little lower than the angels (Heb 2:7-9), so even the angels were greater than He, as they are you and me. He emptied Himself to suffering as you and I do, even worse, to the point of death on that cross (Phil 2:7-8). He raised Himself from the dead (Jn 2:19), as this hub gives biblical evidence for. Three persons did not raise Him. We do not have three spirits living in us (Rom 8:9, 15).

I believe Jesus is the Almighty God, as He Himself claims to be in Revelation and verified in Isaiah.

Rev 22:12-13 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

Isa 44:6 “This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no God.”

Rev 2:8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of Him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.”

Isa 9:6 “For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”

Rev 21:6-7 “Then He said to me, 'It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son [huios].'” I’d say, if we’re to be His son, He is the Father! He is the Son, Israel’s King and Redeemer! He is the LORD God Almighty!

It is WE, the 'Son' [huios] that are forever subject to Him, the Father! Amen!!


Ariel 4 years ago

I'm sorry. I believe (know) your view on God is false. You stand on dangerous grounds before God and Messiah.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Ariel, it seems I've been providing you with scripture to prove the Divinity of Christ, mainly that He is YHVH. Perhaps you'd care to refute the Bible to prove He is NOT? I'm sticking with what the Bible states clearly, what Jesus declares plainly. You can't refute those verses in Revelation and Isaiah. You must reconcile them, which proves the Truth. If you decide to ignore them or explain them away...who's truth do you follow? If you think I don't 'see', then witness to me what you believe to be the truth. Fair enough?


Ariel 4 years ago

The Trinity. 1 God, 3 persons. I am a Trinitarian and I do believe Jesus is the Most High God, just not the Father. It is a mystery, but God does many mysterious things and I believe His Trinitarian nature makes Him more unique. Modalism is like a blasphemy.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Well, that does it for me, Ariel. A mystery...

Mat 13:11-13 "Jesus answered them, 'To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.' To those who listen to My teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."

There was only ONE reason Jesus was crucified on the cross. The Jews were awaiting their Messiah and many believed/believe Jesus was/is that one. Those who crucified Him did not do so because He claimed to be the Messiah; they did so for the sin of 'blasphemy' - claiming to be God. The penalty for that sin was death. So, if believing Jesus IS the One, True God is blasphemy in your eyes and judgment, then I am comforted to know I have taken up my cross to follow Him.

1 John 5:20 "And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."


Ariel 4 years ago

As a Trinitarian, I have no problem with declaring Jesus as the true God. The Father and Holy Spirit are also the true God. And when I get to Heaven, I believe I will see all three. They are one God-kingdom, God-government. Kind of like a monarchy. The only thing that Trinitarians err on is with metaphysics. That's where the confusion is.

But I will leave you to wander after your false god. If you want to match revelations, I was a Oneness Pentecostal for eighteen years of my life. Then God revealed to me that this was a demonic teaching and that those who wittingly believed it would be destroyed at Armageddon.

Don't be destroyed at Armageddon!


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Well, if God 'revealed' to you that He is three persons, please prove it by the Word, as I've asked you to do. You've answered that it is a "mystery".

The main 'sin' of Oneness Pentecostal churches is they have some twisted man-made doctrines/laws:

1) One must be baptized in water in order to be saved. False.

2) Everyone will speak in tongues when baptized in the Holy Ghost. False.

3) The whole 'holiness' movement thing. BONDAGE and hypocricy.

These things will, no doubt, push anyone away from the kingdom of God, just as the scribes and Pharisees did: "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in." (Mat 23:13)

I understand you may have felt or may still feel a bit displaced. You know the Truth, but have embraced the doctrine of the 'Trinity' (God in three persons) in order to belong to an organized 'church'. This is between you and the LORD.

Ariel, when you get to Heaven are you going to ask Jesus what Phillip did in John 14:8? "Lord, show me the Father"? How about, "Lord, show me the Holy Spirit; I'd like to meet Him, too"?

His answer, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Ariel? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show me the Father '?"

I will see you there, dear one. God loves you and I love you.


Ariel 4 years ago

I embraced the Trinity when I read Revelation 4-5 and Matthew 3:16-17. I need not prove that these are three here. You need to disprove that these are one person - Christ. Which you cannot. Also, if you look at John 14:7, you will see that Jesus can only be referring to the fact that He perfectly mimics His Father.

God loves you. I will try to help you understand that Jesus is not God the Father so we can both go to Heaven.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Ariel, I will answer to both Mat 3:16-17 and Rev Chapters 4 and 5:

The baptism of Jesus (Mat 3:16-17):

The dove was the sign prophesied to John the Baptist for him to know that Yehowshua (YHWH the Savior), the Lamb of God, Emmanuel (God with us) was right there. John 1:33 “I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.'”

Our invisible God manifested Himself in many ways throughout Scripture. If the Son is one manifestation ‘person’ of God, the dove another ‘person’, then we must also consider at least five more manifestations ‘persons’: immortal flesh to Abraham and Jacob (Gen 18:2; 19:1; Gen 32:24, 28, 30); the Angel of the LORD (Ex 3:2; Josh 5:13; 6:2; Jud 6:11, 14), the Rock at Horeb (Ex 17:6. 1 Cor 10:4), and clouds and fire (Num 14:14). Why stop at ‘three persons’ and not go with ‘seven persons’?

And regarding Rev Chapter 4 - there is no contradiction to Jesus being Almighty God. In regard to Chapter 5, we've discussed the 'Lamb' taking the scroll from 'Him who sat on the throne' in vs. 7. We must go back to Dan 7 and the interpretation of whom the 'Son of Man' represents = the saints. You can either go with the 'mass-es' (Catholicized interpretation) of Dan 7:13 and Rev 5:7 or go with the angel's interpretation in Dan 7:18, 22. Now, since the whole Bible must be reconciled by itself, there is a commentary on this verse (Rev 5:7) by Scofield as follows:

"Cf. Dan 7:13,14. The two visions are identical; the Revelation adding that which was hidden from Daniel, that the kings and priests of the church-age are to be associated with the "Son of Man," the "Lamb as it had been slain," in His reign "on the earth" Rev 2:9,10."

There are answers, but whether you are ready and willing to receive them is your choice. I am praying for you and all who have been swayed by the latter-day Laodicean doctrines of men.


Ariel 4 years ago

Oh, my friend...I am concerned for you. I believe you are denying our Lord Jesus Christ. You have my prayers.

Understand first - Jesus is not God the Father. He never was and never will be. To say this is a teaching of Antichrist doctrine.

I love you and I want you to go to Heaven so please reconsider what you are teaching!


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Ariel, I think it best you not continue to accuse me of being on the brink of losing my salvation, of blasphemy and now as believing an anti-Christ doctrine, denying our Lord Jesus Christ. I have not made such accusations of you.

What does 'only' mean to you? One and Only? Let me leave you with this: Jude 1:4 "For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and DENY JESUS CHRIST OUR ONLY SOVEREIGN AND LORD." One of us is denying this fact and it isn't I. I'm sticking with the Bible. I'm staying in the TRUTH.

It's no longer profitable to continue this 'debate' as we have shared enough to be accountable to God and the brethren, even those seeking. I'm not here to banter as clanging cymbals. I will continue to hope that blind eyes are opened and deaf ears will hear. Take care.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DHB aka DT (hello, DT ~ really?) – The same spirit speaks through all of your ‘handles’. Just moments into the video (which I would naturally preview before posting it in my comments from you)...I could see you have found those we who 'think' as you do, obviously. Because of this link, I will not post your comment. I will, however, reply to you.

If you would like a higher wisdom (wisdom of the LORD), in the most efficient way I could attempt to explain these things, may I invite you to read a couple more of my hubs:

"Should You Believe in the Trinity? 1 of 2": http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Should-You...

"Should You Believe in the Trinity? 2 of 2"

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Should-You...

I will just share a tid-bit regarding John 17:5:

"Jesus was praying in the Garden of Gethsemane, the night He was betrayed: “And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.” To understand what He’s praying more fully, we need to begin with verse 1, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify You.” What does He mean about “the glory which I had with Thee before the world was”? He did not exist as the “Son” or the “Lamb” at that time, but surely God fore-ordained how He would become the Savior of the world in Rev 13:8 “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him [the Antichrist], whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” We know the Lamb was not slain at the foundation of the world, so Rev 13:8 was prophetic and Jesus’ prayer, subsequent arrest, crucifixion and resurrection was the fulfillment of that prophecy in John 17:5."

It's up to you, but I invite you to grow in understanding.


Raindrops 4 years ago

You're teaching is just about as confusing as Trinity. Do you believe Jesus still has a physical body? If so, then how can Jesus be omnipresent?


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Raindrops, God is not the Author of confusion (1 Cor 14:33), so let me give you the answer from the Word (the Holy Bible). God can take on any form He wishes and whenever He chooses. Taking on a ‘form’, which is the Greek word ‘morphe’ does not mean He has left His omnipresent existence.

Let’s just look at His manifestations in the Old Testament first: immortal flesh appearing to Abraham and Jacob (Gen 18:2; 19:1; Gen 32:24, 28, 30); the Angel of the LORD (Ex 3:2; Josh 5:13; 6:2; Jud 6:11, 14); the Rock at Horeb (Ex 17:6. 1 Cor 10:4); clouds by day and fire by night (Num 14:14).

In the New Testament, He took on flesh (John 1:14; 1 Tim 3:16). While His flesh laid in the tomb, His Spirit raised it up (John 2:19, 21). He appeared to Thomas in that very body (John 20:27-28), appearing though the doors were locked (John 20:26); He appeared in a totally different form to the two men walking on the road (Mark 16:12), then, when their eyes were opened, He disappeared (Luke 24:31). After His ascension, He appeared as Light/Spirit that spoke to Saul (Paul) on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:3-4).

With this information, you can answer your question without confusion.


Raindrops 4 years ago

So what you are saying is that the Jesus who is on Earth was a manifestation God took on but it was only really a body that God created?

Let me try to understand...

God never left Heaven.

He created a body to manifest His Spirit in.

But remained in Heaven.

God controlled this body.

The body had no will or mind of its own.

God destroyed the body while remaining in Heaven.

God made this body our Lord.

So in your beliefs, Jesus is a body? Not really God or a man?

If you could clarify. I never have heard of this theology before and it sounds like the Jesus presented here was only a body.

If you do think Jesus is only a body, then a body paid the price for mankind's sins?

I'm not certain I can accept this as Truth if this is the case.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Raindrops, Unlike the immortal flesh God took on to meet with Abraham, He took on human flesh at the appointed time to shed His own blood for our sins (Acts 20:28; Heb 9:22). Jesus was both fully God in the flesh (“In Him [Jesus] dwells the fullness of the Deity bodily” – Col 2:9) and Man in the flesh (i.e. Mat 26:24). God has a soul (Mat 12:18; Heb 10:38/Hab 2:4). God is the Spirit (John 4:24), yet as the Son of Man had a human spirit (Luke 1:80/2:40; 10:21). God has a mind (Gen 1:8; Is 43:25; Rom 8:27; 1 Cor 2:16). God has a will (many scriptures declare this), while He, as the Son of Man had a human will (Luke 22:42). God has a ‘heart’ (Ez 28:2, 6). God even sings over us (Zeph 3:17) ~ just as we are made in His image. I have a beautiful hub on this called “Soul, Spirit, Mind and Heart”: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Soul--Spir...

Our LORD subjected Himself to everything we are subjected to (Heb 4:15). So, no, Jesus was not just a house without a soul, spirit, mind, will, heart, emotions, hunger, thirst, exhaustion, even was tempted by the Devil (though He did not sin). He became the last ‘Adam’ to give us back the authority to rule over the earth, as it was in the beginning. This will happen after the last enemy (our physical death) is destroyed (ref the angel’s interpretation of Daniel’s vision in Dan 7).

God didn’t have to ‘leave’ heaven to appear to Abraham or live in the tabernacle of the Son of Man. He is omnipresent, meaning He is everywhere at once. If He lives in you and me, He is in heaven and in us, for He is invisible Spirit. We too, have a human side to us, while yet His Spirit dwells in us. While He indwelt all those baptized by fire (the Holy Spirit) on the Day of Pentecost, He yet appeared to Saul/Paul on that road to Damascus. Jesus said in Rev 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." He is coming in visible form again, to sit on David’s throne for the millennium, on the throne at the Great White Judgment (Rev 20), and on the Throne of God Almighty for all eternity. Read Revelation 21! Our God is AWESOME.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT aka Daniel R aka Ariel aka Arletta aka DHB aka Raindrops...the same spirit speaks.

1 Cor 3:19 "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, "He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness."

No more comments from your latest handle will be allowed.


Raindrops 4 years ago

Dang. you're good.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT and all your other identities, including 'Rainbow' now...I've blocked you from my email, but KNOW that I agree with OvadYah in the link you provided. It looks to me like you spend countless hours and effort going after believer after believer, like it's your mission, to waste their precious time and attempt to draw attention to yourself. I only pray many read these publicized debates, here ~ there ~ and everywhere, unto the glory of the Truth, so our labor with you is not in vain.

I have to quote OvadYah's response to you here, because I agree fully: "How then can we classify Messiah as 'a Lesser God" as all these theories intimate - like the Trinity (the topic of this discussion); a 'Compound Unity' and the latest 'Two YHVH's' theory - where one of the YHVH's is a "lesser" YHVH, which position obviously is reserved for Messiah! (For my own soul's sake, I shall publically pray "YHVH forgive me for allowing these fingers to even type this sacrilege!")"

Quit 'wearing down the saints'!!!! DANIEL 7:25


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT aka Daniel R aka Ariel aka Arletta aka DHB aka Raindrops aka Rainbow aka Clam aka Archangel Lord...don't you realize your IP Address shows on every comment? I've reported all your identities and IP addresses to HubPages, as I feel harrassed and am asking you to STOP commenting on my hubs.


Christina 4 years ago

Hello JD,

I have enjoyed most of what I have read on your posts. I am a oneness believer by revelation from God. As I searched and prayed for understanding I heard one day in the middle of all my confusion, a small voice that said "humanity" and then ding, ding it all clicked. My husband was a die hard catholic and he is now a oneness preacher. God is good all the time. I believe the truth comes more clear the more we seek. We never should stop growing and I never believe anyone. I have to read it to believe it. Although we don't agree on everything, we do agree on the truth of who He is. A wonderful truth to treasure! God Bless You!


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi sister Christina!! I praise God you came to read and post ~ I rejoice when I meet another one who knows who God is!! This Truth can only be revealed by His Spirit, and that is ever evident as I continue to press on courageously in addressing this most important fact. I'm sure you come accross the same trials, as the 'majority' of Catholic-rooted Protestant churches, as well as the mother RCC hold to God in three 'persons'.

I would love it if you would email me, because I will sincerely listen to what is it you feel we are not unified in, as I am always teachable ~ just careful who I subject myself to learning from/with! I only came to the understanding of who God is (not due to any church doctrine or influence), but by God Himself, just about two years ago (when I then wrote this hub)...what a mind-blower! Oh, to overcome indoctrination and listen to the LORD!

Thank you again, sister. Thank you.


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Christinme 4 years ago

I admire your boldness sister in Christ. I too know that God has revealed to me His vastness and splendor covering the world. That HE can be all things at all times . I wanted to remind readers of The seven "I AM" sayings of Jesus Christ in the book of John. The divinity of Jesus Christ is further illustrated in John 8:58. Jesus said, “Truly, Truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am”, which means that Jesus existed before His human life on earth.

It is fantastic that you too are looking to God to show you and teach and not looking to mans understanding.

The LORD recently revealed to me that "self" gets in HIS way. It is not who WE are in CHRIST, but who CHRIST is in us . It is my prayer on this earth that man looks to God to reveal Himself in scripture , and not to another mans understanding of it .

He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14, v21 says it all.

God bless you for following the narrow path . xxx


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

You are such an encouragement and blessing to my heart, Christinme! Thank you. Yes, I am constantly 'listening' in my spirit to be guided by my Shepherd's Truth and understanding ~ to feel His gentle rod to keep me focused on Him, Who is the Truth.

I remember my 'conversion' experience, though I had already 'done' the 'things' that one does to become a 'Christian' (prayer of confession, receiving Christ in my heart, being baptized, going to church...) ~ yet, there came a day when I realized I was doing the work, which wasn't so fruitful...so, I yeilded to what I did not know, in faith and trust, to let Him live in me and do His work through me. THAT is when I saw the fruit, amen!

Even in John 14:21 those who don't yet have 'eyes to see' will focus on 'he that loves Me shall be loved of My Father', indicating two 'persons' in their mind. Yet, I ask them, "Who's commandments are they again?" May our LORD, YHWH, the Great "I AM" be praised forevermore. God bless you, sister! God bless you!!


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Christinme 4 years ago

God is not a God of tradition . To think that we can just pray "the sinners prayer " and be saved forever, however we behave is the biggest of satans lies that is attacking doctrine like a cancer .

God requires us to KNOW HIM, to walk in HIS truth.

John10:27 My sheep listen to My voice , I know them and they follow me.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

God intends us to know Him for Himself and not a doctrine about Him .

Many will fight against this message , however Gods word never comes back to Him void.

I am blessed to have found your hub, be encouraged never to grow weary of doing good .


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

I am thankful you have come to me, sister Christinme! Truly, the saints are as the spring of living Water to our souls that are prone to weariness in the spiritual warfare of slicing through this world of doctrines of demons with the Sword (Word) of the Spirit. Healing and refreshment, amen!

We can more fully understand what Jesus Christ, as the 'last Adam' said in John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works." To be like Christ, to be the 'Son' of God is for the Spirit of God to do His works in us and through us, amen. THIS is the LIFE that is eternal, for He is eternal.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ 21:7 promises, "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son."

Ps 23:1/John 10:27 The LORD is my Shepherd. We are His sheep, for whom He laid down His life (John 10:11), that we may live eternally, forever with Him, in Him and He in us. HalleluYah!!


Sarah 4 years ago

Many people have denied the Father's love for us.

He came down just so He could save us. Became His only begotten Son.

God bless you sister!


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

72.201.142.80 - Hello again. Really, is this all you have to do? To answer your statement: http://www.askoh.com/verses/oneness.html


DT 4 years ago

I suppose in your theology that whenever Jesus is talking to the Father he's just playing pretend. Honestly, judahsdaughter, I really think that the only reason you do not appreciate my comments is that you know that your beliefs don't line up with the Scriptures. You simply just want Jesus to be more than what he said he was. I used to hold to your position but I had to start letting scriptures speak to me rather than me for scriptures. I hope you come across true truth. Blessings.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, Jesus was fully God and fully Man. He, the omnipresent Spirit, subjected Himself to becoming a hu-Man, what the Bible calls "the last Adam". A dual existence as Spirit and flesh (even as the LORD appeared to Abraham in Gen 18). He, as the Son of Man, had to feel pain, suffering, hunger, weariness, temptation by Satan, follow His own Law and not sin. As the Son of Man He must have been capable of sinning, due to the flesh of Mary (for even she sinned - all have sinned Rom 3:23). If not, what then did He overcome? In every way He had to overcome, even death on the cross, for the sake of mankind, His creation. In every way He set the example for us to follow. Therefore, when we face God-ordained persecution, we also pray, "Not my will, but Thy will be done."

In Mark 10:18 Jesus asked, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God ALONE." That's a dead giveaway for those who will 'see'. Jesus was without sin, perfectly holy, blameless, spotless. No one is good except God ALONE, and in this He revealed His identity to those who will receive. For this reason, His righteousness, His sacrifice saves us. None of us are righteous, no not one (Rom 3:10).

Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD (YHWH); and beside Me there is NO Saviour." So, if you believe Jesus is a created being and you are trusting him, as a created being, to save you, you have no Savior.

Let's talk about God the hypostasis for a moment. In John 3:13 Jesus said, "And NO MAN hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which IS IN heaven." There was never a 'son of man' IN heaven prior to the ascension of the Son of Man. Jesus taught us to pray (again, example) in Mat 6:9, "Our Father, which art IN heaven..." That tells you Who He is. We, like Him, though we now have the Spirit of God/Spirit of Christ living in us, pray to overcome the flesh and submit to the Spirit. Once we are changed/resurrected into our immortal bodies, we no longer must overcome the flesh, for we will be perfect as He is perfect (Mat 5:48).

2 Thes 2:3 prophesied, and it is Truth, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first." One cannot 'fall away' unless they at one time were in the Truth. The end time is upon us, for Netanyahu is to take control of the temple mount to rebuild the third temple, by the end of this year. I say to you, 'repent', for you know the Truth and have rejected it, by the vain deceipt of men.


DT 4 years ago

Hello, judahsdaughter, I think you bring up some good points but please allow me to address them.

On the subject of John 3:13:

John 3:13 - No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. (NIV)

John 3:13 - No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. (ESV)

John 3:13 - "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. (NASB)

John 3:13 - The only one who has ever gone up to heaven is the One who came down from heaven -- the Son of Man. (NCV)

John 3:13 - No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. (NRSV)

John 3:13 - No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man. (RSV)

John 3:13 - No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of man; (NJB)

Vincent:

“Which is in heaven

Many authorities omit.”

These are numerous different translations on the verse. I do understand that I am not alone in the position that the last four words "which is in heaven" should be omitted.


DT 4 years ago

Now understand, the word ?????? used in Mark 10:18 is defined the following:

"intrinsically good, good in nature, good whether it be seen to be so or not, the widest and most colorless of all words with this meaning."

It is also applied to Barnabas in Acts 11:24. Is Barnabas God?


DT 4 years ago

This is from a site that is in defense of the New World Translation (which I do NOT endorse).

“Some might bring up for discussion Isaiah 43:10 where according to the NWT we can read:

"'You are my witnesses,' is the utterance of Jehovah, "even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and have faith in me, and that you may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none. I - I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no saviour'"

We would benefit from noting the context. Jehovah is asking his witnesses, the nation of Israel, to consider the "gods" of the surrounding nations. In contrast to Jehovah, the God of Israel, these gods have no real power as Jehovah has and has shown throughout this nation's history. Really, these pagan, idol "gods" are non-existent, an unreality.(Is.41:23) Hence, it is truth that Jehovah alone is the true God. There are no others that can rival him or can be compared with him from amongst the pagan nations. However, as can be seen from our discussion of the word "god"(Heb."elohim"), others who are not false "gods" can be so described. So there are more than just the two 'categories' or usages of "God/god" than a) The True God and b) False gods. There is another: c) Those who are both representatives and reflections, with power and authority from the True God can also be termed "god/gods." John, in his opening verses to his Gospel therein describes the Word, in his prehuman existence, as, not a false, idol, non-existent "god," but as one who was with the True God, and as 'spokesman' of this One, could be properly described as a "god." There is therefore, when we consider the contexts of both passages, no conflict with Isaiah 43:10 and the NWT's rendering of John 1:1.

We should carefully note what Jehovah says here at Isaiah 43.11.

Jehovah states that besides He there is "no saviour." Is this true? Yes, of course. We can also read at Isaiah 12.2 "Look! God is my[Israel's] salvation. I shall trust and be in no dread; for Jah Jehovah is my strength and my might, and he came to be the salvation of me." However does not the scriptures themselves call others, other than Jehovah, "saviours"? Yes! For instance see Judges 3.9. Was Othniel a "saviour"? Yes. Was Othniel a 'false' saviour? Of course not! This shows that Jehovah can state that only he is a "saviour" of his people yet at the same time call others who he uses, by 'raising them up' for purposes of salvation, "saviours." Hence, it would be wrong for someone to argue that only Jehovah can be a "saviour" because of what we read at v.11 of Isaiah 43. It would be equally erroneous then to argue that because Jehovah stated that "Does there exist a God beside me? No, there is no Rock. I have recognized none" (Is.44.8) that Jehovah Himself can not call into existence those who he would recognise as a "god" or "gods" and yet these are not in any way 'false' or non-existent. Note that Jehovah says he "recognises none."-Is.44.8. That is, Jehovah does not "recognise" any of the nations "gods." Jehovah is the only absolute "God" and only those he calls "gods" or "a god" would he "recognise" as such. This is what Israel was to recognise: That He was a God in whom there is no rival from the nations "gods." None of these were "saviours" of Israel nor were any of these "gods" who were "beside" Jehovah. Those who bring up Isaiah 43.10 to argue against a grammatically and contextually correct translation of John 1.1c ("and the Word was a god"-NWT)are only showing that they have mis-understood the context and hence mis-aplying it in support of a trinitarian understanding of theos at John 1.1 and at the same time showing that they have to resort to such a misunderstanding because of the strength of the grammatical arguements that favour the "Word" there being described, no, not as "God," but as "a god" who was with "God."”


DT 4 years ago

Also note:

Romans 8:3 - For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (ASV)

Now notice - if only God could do what Jesus could do then sin was not condemned in the flesh, sin was justified in the flesh.

Think about it.

Blessings.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Comments don't allow for Greek letters, DT, but use rational thinking, if you will. Jesus said, "No one is good except God ALONE." Therefore, this word 'good' applies only to God ALONE, not to Barnabas, for if it were the same, intended meaning, Jesus would have lied, and He is the Truth.

Regarding John 3:13, I checked the Greek before even using this scripture: http://biblos.com/john/3-13.htm It is proof of the identity of Christ; the Greek contains the wording, "which IS IN heaven", therefore, if other translations remove it, that is their 'bad', not mine. No doubt they did so to support Arian or other doctrines that wish to deny who Jesus IS. The Devil wants to blind, but those who dig into the original language of the Bible will find and will see with natural eyes, if not spiritual eyes.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, in answer to your New World Translation comment, let me make this very simple. In Ps 82:6, quoted by Jesus in John 10:34, the sons of the Most High (believers) are 'elohim' (gods). However, NONE of them can SAVE anyone from sin. "Who can forgive sins, but God ALONE?" (Mark 2:7; Luke 5:21). And if you try to say Peter could forgive sin, you are as corrupt as the Pope. Case closed.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, God ALONE is man's Justifier. 2 Cor 5:21 "For He has made Him, who knew NO sin, to be sin for us; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." The last Adam overcame sin, condemned sin and justified the sinner, that we, the sinners, might be made the righteousness of God IN Him.

1 Tim 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God [He] was manifest in the flesh [as the last Adam], justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Rev 2:8 "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the First and the Last, which was DEAD, and is alive..."

Isa 44:6 "This is what the LORD [YHWH] says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD [YHWH] Almighty [El Shadday]: I am the First and I am the Last; apart from Me there is NO God."


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, I am not posting your lengthy commentaries, arguments and links to promote your Arian view. I wondered whether or NOT to open the door, even a crack to you, as you have harrassed me by changing handles, to do the same thing, fighting the Word and what it says. I will keep this simple and to-the-point.

Just as there is ONE Divine Savior, Who is God Himself; ONE who can remit (erase) sin, and ONE First and Last, Who is God Himself. I don't care how many humans are called 'saviors', can 'forgive others' or are 'firsts' and 'lasts', there is only ONE Almighty God and He manifested Himself in the Person of Jesus Christ.

Jesus was God Himself in the flesh, His flesh was called the Son of Man; the flesh that would become sin for us and die on the cross. For this reason Jesus said we could 'blaspheme the Son of Man [His flesh]' (Mat 12:32), yet He also warned we are not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, God IN Him that cast out demons in that case, "as they were saying He has an evil spirit" (Mark 3:30). This same Spirit of God IN Him raised His mortal body from the dead. Jesus said clearly in John 2:19 "Destroy this temple [His fleshly body] and in three days, I WILL raise it up."

You know the Holy Spirit (Ruach Ha-Kodesh) is a 'breath or blast of air"; it is the very breath of God. Giver of physical life and spiritual life. Let's consider:

Gen 2:7 "the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

And

Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life."

And

John 1:4 "In Him was life and that life was the light of men."

Finally, we will oberve the following passages:

Isa 45:23 "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to ME every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance."

Phil 2:10 "that at the name of JESUS every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD [YHWH] , to the GLORY of God the Father."

In Isa 42:8 The LORD (YHWH) clearly states, "I will not give My glory to another." Amen.


DT 4 years ago

I agree with that statement of God's in Isaiah 42:8. Have a look at John 17:22 with me for a minute.

John 17:22 - And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we [are] one; (ASV)

What does Jesus do? He gives his glory to us. But God gives his glory to no one. And the only way to understand why Jesus gives his glory to us but God does not give his glory to anyone if we do not fight against truth but accept that Jesus isn't God.

Now note: the body is the temple of God. If this is true, then blaspheming the Son of Man (God's flesh according to you) would be just as bad as blaspheming the holy spirit.

Again, the only way to understand Matthew 12:31-32 is if the truth is accepted that Jesus is God's most highly exalted Son and not God himself. Jesus is not an earth-suit. You are the one trying to make Jesus out to be an earth-suit and your responses as to how Jesus was talking to himself are simply fighting Jesus. Don't fight truth friend. I wanted Jesus to be God too.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, there is only ONE divine 'glory' and that is the glory of God. "Glory" is the Hebrew word 'kabowd', meaning "abundance, honour, glory" and the Greek word 'doxa', meaning "honor, renown; glory, an especially divine quality, the unspoken manifestation of God, splendor."

Flesh is an 'earth-suit' and Jesus, in His glorified form (the 'morphe' of God - ref Phil 2:6), appeared in 'another' (heteros - different) form (morphe), after His body was resurrected (Mark 16:12), so where was His original 'earth-suit'? And, He appeared as speaking Light to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9).

Do you THINK, should you see Jesus in heaven after physical death, you will ask Him to 'show me the Father'?, as Philip did? Let's read John 14:7-9:

"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”

Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?"

John 1:18 declares, "No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, He has declared Him.”

Greek: http://biblos.com/john/1-18.htm

1 John 5:20 "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

You wanted Jesus to be God? He is God. Accept it or reject it; it appears you have rejected the Truth, and for that, the LORD Jeus Christ will be your Judge, rather than your Savior, for the LORD said again in Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD (YHWH); and beside Me there is NO Saviour."

Luke 2:11 "For unto you is born this day in the city of David [a] Saviour, which is Christ the LORD (YHWH)." 'soter' - "properly, THE Savior, Jesus Christ who saves believers from their sins and delivers them into His safety."

Isa 9:6 again..."For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His Name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."

Jesus is both King of kings (Rev 19:6) and Prince of peace (Isa 9:6); He is both the Root (Creator) and offspring of David (Rev 22:16). Amen.


DT 4 years ago

Funny that you would assert that I am corrupt as the Pope. The Pope thinks Mary is the Mother of God because God came out of her womb!

Since you believe Jesus is the unipersonal Supreme Deity, than you are actually twice as bad as the Pope.

The Pope only believes that Mary gave birth to 1/3 of God whereas you assert that Mary gave birth to all of God.

Think about that.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

For being an ex-Oneness believer, DT, you still hadn't grasped the Truth. The Pope believes Mary was sinless (she was the daughter of Adam, therefore, she had the sin nature of all men/women since Adam and Eve); secondly, the Pope believes the eternally begotten second Person of the Trinity was born in the flesh, who is equal with God, but not the Father.

You don't believe in 'the eternal Son', do you? Rather, that the Son of God was born, died and rose again, ascended into heaven and remains the Son of God, separate from, and lesser than the Father, for eternity. That's Arianism for you.

I believe Mary was the human vessel that gave birth to the "only begotten God" (John 1:18), the Spirit of God (God is Spirit and invisible) made flesh to shed His OWN blood for us (Acts 20:28). God abhors child sacrifice and would not perform what He labeled an abomination. That is in my hub entitled "With His OWN Blood".


robert 4 years ago

I am sorry but there is no biblical or common sense basis for your oneness view and is even futher out there then the myth of the trinity. If the Creator YAH died then there is no life giver to restore his life. Dead is Dead!!!

Atleast the trinity myth has 2 other players who are said to be lifegivers.

But why didnt YAH just become a man and have Adam kill him, why wait 4 thousand years.

Could it be because sin came from a man named Adam and it took 4000 years for a MAN that was born naturally to be perfect in all the laws of YAH to restore what was lost when Adam sinned . if your Jesus was actually the creator who could of restored mankind in the garden but didnt so mankind could suffer his many wraths that took new born children lives, these new borns who never once ever committed a single sin then your Jesus would not be worthy of my worship.

But thank the glory of Yah that this was not HIS plan , all wraths came because of humanity who YAH gave free will so that through the same freewill one would be born(Yahshua) who through perfection of YAH’s laws would show that mankind could be made holy enough to stand before YAH to be judged , this can be done because our covering is Yahshua. This is the Grace that allows all mankind to be offered salvation aka the blessing to all nations also promised to Abraham.

The other promise to Abrahm has to do with the Law and is for Israel and all those that strive to follow every law of YAH that existed at their time so they could take part in the 1000 year Sabbath rest which Yahshua will rule from YAH’s thone after that comes the Great judgement of the multitude where YAH returns to his throne after honoring his greatest type of Sabbath.

From historical writings The oneness myth was a late 2nd century invention ,probably originating or mutating from early 2nd century Marcion's belief that Isu(Jesus) was the creator god and was not really revealed in the OT. He decided this because the OT god created evil but the NT god Isu was all about love. Marcion was acepted into the roman church with this belief . Marcon also had in his possesion the earliest record of a book we now call Luke plus several letters said to be Pauls.

The earliest belief of who Yahshua was he was man who was sinless because he loved his Elohim and showed it by following every divine commandment of his Elohim . He was born of Joseph and Mary as all men are. This belief was of the Nasaren and also the Ebonites(Poor ones) but this belief was hated by the church because the hatred for anything jewish because of the jewish wars especially the revolution of 135ad


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hello robert,

John 2:19 “Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

God in three persons (the Trinity) is FALSE. There is only One Life-Giver.

Ask God about timing His sacrificial death. Heb 9:26 “Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.”

Mat 1:18 clearly tells us, “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.”

No mere MAN is perfect, without sin. You have confessed Yahshua was sinless; therefore He is Yah, according to Mark 10:18 "No one is good except God alone."

Rom 5:12 “Therefore, just as through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—“ Rom 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Rom 3:10 “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.”

2 Cor 5:21 “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

So, we’ll stand before YAH to be judged, whom you think is a separate God from Yahshua? Have you read John 5:22 “For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son” and 1 Peter 1:17 “If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;” In Rev 22:12 Yahshua said, “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.”

Rom 10:4 “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” Who is the LORD of the Sabbath? And in Whom do we find that rest? And when do we find that rest? Read Hebrews 4:1-10.

For the history of Oneness, view http://youtu.be/OsS2-HLtcXQ or read my hub “Calvin Murdered Michael Servetus”: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/CALVIN-Mur...

Look, you can stay as a “white-washed sepulcher full of dead men’s bones”, if you wish (Mat 23:27). The GOOD NEWS is YHWH came in the FLESH and shed His own blood (Acts 20:28) for your SINS and took the charges of those Laws that were against you and nailed them to that cross (Col 2:14).


robert 4 years ago

So it seems that Peter would TOTALLY DISAGREE

Acts 2 22“Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

Acts 10:38

how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him

When legion spoke thru the man he indwelled(possessed) was the power to do so something Yah couldnt command of one of his angels or heavenly servents . Yahshua was the first man that thru obedience that any thing Holy could indwell.satan didnt have that problem because he could just pick anyone who committed any small sin.

I am sorry to tell you but if your god came in the flesh then died, then he is dead and his followers just used the true resurrection of Yahshua as a way to deceive his followers that he failed as a god to think ahead.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

robert, You need to read John 14:5-14 to understand how Yahshua was the Father in the flesh.

Peter does NOT disagree. It is he who wrote in 2 Peter 1:1 “Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:” God and Savior are not two persons, for it is written in Isa 43:11 and Hosea 13:4 (spoken by YHWH) “There is NO SAVIOR besides ME.”

YHWH came as Yahshua (YHWH Saves) as the last ‘Adam’ and set the EXAMPLE in EVERYTHING, paving the WAY back to our rightful inheritance given before the FALL in the Garden. As He, as the last Adam did, WE who are BORN AGAIN can do. John 14:12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that Ido; and greater works than these will he do…” It is HE that granted us that authority, as shown in Luke 10:19 “Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.”

I’m sorry to tell you that YOU have NO SAVIOR, since you DENY Yahshua is “I AM”: John 8:24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." Exodus 3:14 “God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"


robert 4 years ago

you have no idea what being saved is. when adam sinned the Elohim could not have him in their presence. Adam was seperated from the Elohim because he was no longer holy so the Elohim made them a covering to cover their flesh so the Elohim could even look upon them.

after that sacrifices had to made in which the spilled blood took the place of the skins. Cain and Able sacrificed but Cain did not use a spotless clean animal of first born status and his wasnt accepted. everyone who wanted the Elohim to hear and see them done this sacrifice Noah , Abraham , Jacob , Moses , David and even the biological Father of Yahshua but Yahshua did not not break any of commandment that was ever given for a man to follow. this made him spotless and being first born of Joseph allowed him to offer himself his blood as a permenent covering so the Elohim could see and here them without animal blood which would only provide a temporary covering. Thanks to Yahshua we dont have to live in the absolute of death , dying without the opportunity to stand in the presence to be judged by the Elohim. His blood covers us all from Adam to the last man born .

NOW WE CAN BE JUDGED AND THIS IS WHAT IS CALLED SALVATION CAUSED WITHOUT JUDGEMENT WE ALL DIE.

There is no need to address you twisting and ignoring to promote your false doctrine because before judgement everyone will receive the whole truth and those that confess the means they can stand there (Yahshua) and power of the one who will do final judgement. ( Yahshua has judgement(because the Elohim will rest again) of who enters the 1000 year kingdom which he shares with who he chooses but thats not the final judgement)

JD you really should pray for guidence then do some real research


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

robert, "Elohim" is plural alright, but not as in plural YHWHs, but as in the heavenly host and even those who lived by faith (Ps 82:6; John 10:34). Look it up in the Hebrew dictionary/concordance #430. So you can call Him “their”, but that shows just how twisted your spiritual mind is. Why would YHWH Elohim (the LORD God) call those of the Old Testament, before Yahshua’s death, “Elohim, sons of the Most High”? That should tell you something about those who lived by FAITH BEFORE Yahshua was born, died, resurrected and ascended. Read Hebrews 11; none of those people were saved by the LAW, but by FAITH in God their Savior.

The Lamb of God was predestined to be slain from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8). YHWH would not have allowed SIN to enter humanity, if He had not already made provision for it. Yes, the blood of bulls and goats was required to ‘pass over’ the sins of the people year after year; however Heb 10:4 makes it clear “For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.” And hey, Isaac was to be a burnt offering (as a ram), but even he was not slain. He was the father of Jacob (Israel)! Yah provided the RAM, amen. That ram was a shadow of the RAM to come, our Yahshua.

What you don’t understand is a mere man “born of Joseph” would have been born into sin, for Joseph was NOT sinless, nor was Mary, for she said in Luke 4:27, “my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.” You sound like an occultist, sacrificing a mere man for mankind. If ANY man could keep the Law, it would have been Moses! Was he not called a 'mediator'? Even HE could NOT. NO human being can keep the LAW and it was designed that way, to show us our NEED for our SAVIOR. YHWH shed His OWN blood and Yahshua was NOT born of Joseph. The Bible clearly states this in Mat 1:18.

JUDGMENT is NOT CALLED SALVATION, for John 3:18 states, "He that believeth on Him is NOT condemned [judged]: but he that believeth not IS condemned [judged] already*, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten [born] Son of God.” YOU’VE ALREADY BEEN JUDGED and if you don’t REPENT, you will remain under condemnation, which is NOT your salvation.

Rom 8:1 also clearly states, “Therefore there is now NO condemnation for those who are IN Christ Jesus.”

As I stated on my profile page, I will not continue in endless rhetoric. I will leave you with the words of Yahshua in John 12:47-18 “If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world [*for the world is already judged], but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.”


DT 4 years ago

JD, the popes of Rome invented the inherited sin doctrine.


robert 4 years ago

What you are doing is mixing the judgemets .

1st Judgement(before the 1000year Sabbath )is those who came to the truth of YAH's word thru hearing and seeing, thru proof and reproof. These obeyed the commands of the Creator yet stumbled. the likes of Noah, Shem, Abraham, Moses, David, prophets and any one who took hold of the Covenants of YAH's. This was even offered to all nations as we see in Isa 56. We can find these people even today by their unitarian, sabbatarian, name of the ELYON using, 10 commandments following, the love of all laws(even though some cant be done) ways. These will also know their KING has been seated at the right hand of the Elohim(plural)named YHWH which is compounded meaning YAH and HAVAH(breath) the mother of all living the same breath Adam named his wife after .

2nd Judgement(after) is for all those who never had the opportunity to see or hear the truth or for those who have allowed satan to deceive them into believing lies.

Your view of salvation is selfess not allowing better people than yourself to be judged then be allowed to enter the new heaven and renewed earth


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, I wont' go into rhetorical debate with you, as you know, but you've stated this a few times and I am challenging you to PROVE that the scriptures quoted: Rom 5:12 “Therefore, just as through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—“ Rom 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Rom 3:10 “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.” were added to the text by the RCC. How about Isaiah 64:6 "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away."

Prove away...


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

There are not two judgments, pre- and post-millennia, robert. One is either judged (condemned) or not, based on faith. 1 Tim 4:10 states, “For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.” For this reason, the name of everyone ever born started out in the Lamb’s Book of Life. It is only they who reject God and do not “obey the voice of YHWH” that have their names blotted out of the Book of Life (Ex 32:33; Deut 29:20; Ps 9:5; Ps 69:28; Rev 3:5). In this sense, they ‘nullify’ (make void) the grace of God, as stated in Gal 2:21 “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

And speaking of those who never heard the gospel - #1. Adam and Eve didn’t need a preacher or a Bible. Rom 1:20 tells us, “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.” Those who have never heard of Christ are not guilty of rejecting Him, amen? Look at what Yahshua said in John 15:22 “If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.” How can they not have sin? In and of themselves? NO! Because of the GRACE YHWH ordained from the foundation of the world. This is how all listed in Hebrews 11 (pre-LAW) were saved.

I’ve covered the passages regarding “Right Hand” and we’ve discussed the meanings of Elohim. You can even look at what Stephen saw as he was about to be stoned in Acts 7:55 “But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the GLORY of Elohim and Yahshua [as the Son of Man] standing at the right hand of Elohim (59) “And they stoned Stephen, invoking and saying, “LORD [YHWH] Yahshua, Receive the spirit of me.” (Greek wording).

So, I looked up where you might get this “YAH and HAVAH(breath) the mother of all living” stuff…Do you believe in the Quaternity Rosary because it honors the four-person Godhead: Father and Mother Creators and God-the-Son and Holy Daughter? It’s bad enough we have those who believe in a two-person Godhead (which when used in Greek is actually the word for Deity, not Godhead), let alone three, but four and even seven (the seven spirits of God). Get real. Echad (Deut 6:4) means the numeral 1 and is masculine. Count to three as a Hebrew: echad, shtayim, shalosh; Note how many ribs were taken from Adam’s side in Gen 2:21: one (echad).

Ruach (Spirit) is a feminine word, but Spirit is neither male nor female. The attributes of YHWH are all-sufficient, as a mother’s milk nurses her child (El-Shadday, which means The Almighty). We do not split up the Deity by attributes, period. Yahshua’s flesh was the flesh of a woman, not a human male. He was male, yet He was sold out by Judas for the price of a female lamb sin sacrifice (Lev 5:6; 27:4; Mat 27:9).

So how is the Name of YHWH (the Tetragrammaton) interpreted?

Y - Yod also means "behold" "look at"

H - Heh also means "Hand"

V - Vau also means "Nail"

His NAME is the NAME of YHWH our SAVIOR. Amen.


DT 4 years ago

JD, no those verses were not added by the RCC. Those verses were misinterpreted by the RCC in order to enforce their iniquities upon the human race. I was not born a sinner. I am a sinner because I chose to sin (Ezekiel 18:20, Romans 7:9 - I challenge you to prove that the interpretation that those verses you listed prove inherited sin is the correct one and to refute these verses).


DT 4 years ago

Another point:

You cite Isaiah 64:6. This is talking about how OUR iniquities take us away which would be an impossibility if someone else's iniquities take us away. Keyword - "our". Sin is personal, not inherited. As for Romans 5:12, we fall under the influence of Adam when we make a free choice to follow in his rebellion. Once again - sin is personal - not inherited. And of course there is none righteous because of the abusal of free will. Thus again my task is to not prove the RCC added those scriptures, my task is to demonstrate based on the majority evidence, that the scriptures used to prove inherited sin are distorted and abused by inherited sin proponents. I have provided sufficient evidence to demonstrate this. Blessings.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, I am NOT saying we are guilty of Adam’s SIN. We’re not guilty of Cain’s sin or our parents’ sin! The truth is, SIN entered the world because the first Adam fell into it. For this reason, we all have the propensity to SIN. ALL of us are sinners and I will prove that. Sure, YHWH visits the sins of the forefathers unto the third and fourth generations of those who hate Him (Ex 20:5), but that doesn’t mean that great-grandchild is guilty of their forefathers’ sins. Why do you think we needed a ‘last Adam’ that had NO earthly father to redeem that which was lost? And Yahshua IS the Savior of all mankind. His grace covered all who believed in the Old Testament, just as it does those in the New. Yahshua gave His life at the consummation of the ages (Heb 9:26).

Ez 18:20 tells us we are all accountable for our own sin. Likewise, it clarifies that the righteousness of a man/woman will be credited as such. Rom 7:9 tells you that BECAUSE of the Law, SIN was defined and the Law indeed was AGAINST us. Thus, we are aware of sin and are sinners (vs. 7). So, where do we obtain righteousness? Through the Law? No. Let's go back to Gen 15:6 "Abram [pre-Law] believed the LORD, and He credited it to him as righteousness." For this reason, Yahshua said in Mat 5:20, "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Thus, I go back to Isa 64:6 "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away."

1 John 1:8 tells us, "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the Truth is not IN us."

Thus, how to we obtain the righteousness of God? 2 Cor 5:21 "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

You challenge my interpretation? Hey, I take the Bible for what it says, unless it can be proven it was altered (as Mat 28:19 and 1 John 5:7 were). It is up to YOU to prove your case, which you have not.


robert 4 years ago

JD

If you took the time to research you would find the hebrew word echad can be used to mean joined . Yahshua also said it to refer to many becoming one with him.

No I dont believe in 4 equal El's and/or Eloah's or together Elohim. I believe in ONE Creator( EL YAH the ELYON) and ONE Havah(the breath of all life, Wisdom) who was the first created being by YAH the ELYON. Everything after their union was created by YAH thru Havah then even thru the Sons of Elohim, Lucifer ,Michael and possibly more.

I am a strict unitarian who believes in only one Creator, YAH THE ELYON and many co creators who YAH created thru them.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

robert, let’s look at the word ONE (Greek heis –a cardinal numeral, one.) In other instances you reference, we will see the feminine of this word, mia. This is used for God and Man in unity. Yahshua, as the last Adam, the Son of Man (flesh) was one (mia) with the Father (the Spirit, Ruach). I’ve covered the passages that clearly show YHWH is Spirit and is invisible. Yahshua is His image (in the Old Testament, immortal, spiritual) and (in the New Testament, flesh and Spirit – see Acts 9:3-5). Likewise, mankind is one (mia) with each other and one (mia) with Christ, who is YHWH.

Let’s talk about the Creator for a moment. Surely, you don’t believe in “the eternal Son”, right? Therefore, let’s observe two passages for reconciliation:

Isaiah 44:24 “Thus says YHWH, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, YHWH, am the Maker of ALL things, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF And spreading out the earth all ALONE.”

John 1:3 “All things were made BY Him [Yahshua]; and without Him was not ANY thing made that was made.”

Now, let’s see WHO breathed into Adam the breath of life: Job 33:4 “The Spirit [Rhuach] of God [El] has made me, And the breath of the Almighty [Shadday] gives me life.”

Now, Gen 2:7 tells us, “Then YHWH Elohim formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.”

Finally, let’s go to John 20:22 “And when He [Yahshua] had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.”

The Ruach HaKodesh IS YHWH, the very breath of Him. YHWH is the Holy Spirit, made flesh and dwelt among us, and is now the very Holy Spirit that finds His temple in the hearts of believers. Rom 8:9; John 2:19, 21; 1 Cor 6:19.

Remain Unitarian – but know, just as YHWH came unto His OWN and His OWN received Him NOT (John 1:11), you have not received HIM. They thought Yahshua was merely the son of Joseph, just as you. John 14:7 “If you had known Me [Yahshua], you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Believe it or not.


robert 4 years ago

your problems is you dont understand that the human Yahshua was indwelled by a holy spirit after his baptism which spoke and did miracles thru Yahshua just as it did thru the disciples in John 20:22. . You just dont want to see the truth


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

How is it, robert, that Yahshua was conceived by the Holy Spirit yet wasn't indwelt by the Holy Spirit until His baptism? In HIM dwells (present tense) ALL the fullness of the Deity bodily! (Col 2:9) You have this mixed up in your spiritual mind. The Spirit 'like a dove' descended upon the Son of Man (Yahshua) as a SIGN to John the Baptist (John 1:33). Yahshua did not need to be 'born again' as we do, for He was born of the flesh and the Spirit (literally). We, on the other hand, born of the flesh, must be 'born again' of the Spirit in order to be His dwelling place. And, yes, like Yahshua (as the last Adam), we will do the same signs and even greater things because of the Spirit IN us, working through us. This is the Spirit of Christ, for it is He who gives us this authority (Luke 10:19) - for YHWH is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of YHWH is, there is liberty (2 Cor 3:17).


robert 4 years ago

actually if you took the time to really research you would find attested by the early church fathers that Matthew was first written in hebrew then translated with great difficulty . In this hebrew Matthew there was No, again No birth story and it began at the baptism. the you loi that Luke was without this myth in the first mention of the book we call Luke when Marcion brought it with him when he came to the roman church and he was welcomed with open arms to later be shunned as the myth of the birth started to take hold in the church. A pagan wrote the proto evangeline ttie his belief to that of babylonia greek myth.

So no i dont believe in the myth of the virgin birth and those who tried did so using a bad interpretation of Isaiah with would require the virgin birth to have happened twice. but using a better interpretation we can find it didnt mean a virgin birth and was not a prophesy. other than these myth being added there is nothing any where claiming this any where else in the nt even though you will try to use born of woman you will do so out of ignorance because that is an idiom meaning totally human


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Let’s go beyond Matthew and Luke, shall we, robert? John 3:16 clearly states that Yahshua was the ONLY BEGOTTEN (born) SON of GOD. Now, we already covered that Israel was called ‘Elohim’, “sons of the Most High”. WHY is it then, since there were so many sons of God that Yahshua is called the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God, if He were no different than the others? It is YOU who DENY the Truth. I will not have further discussion with you, as you are clearly in rebellion against YHWH…a “white washed sepulcher full of dead men’s bones”.


robert 4 years ago

no John 3:16 is speaking of the word that indwelled Yahshua . Like I said you have not took the time to understand Yahshua was indwelled by a holy spirit


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

robert, The Word indwelt Yahshua?! Let’s see: John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was to/toward [pros] Elohim [angels, magistrates and we as believers] and God was the Word. “ (Greek translation) We’ve already established Gen 1:1 “In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth – and we know there is only ONE Creator who created ALL things BY HIMSELF. That Creator was and is the Ruach HaKodesh.

Now John 1:14 tells us THE WORD BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us – so how it is, the Word indwelt Yahshua when HE was and IS the Word, who IS GOD (YHWH Elohim)? This fact is established. Of course the Spirit indwelt Him, for He was conceived and born of that very Holy Spirit. He did NOT receive the Holy Spirit at His baptism. And speaking of His baptism, He had NO NEED TO REPENT or be CLEANSED, as He was sinless. Again, in EVERYTHING, YHWH, as the Son of Man/Son of God did EVERYTHING as an EXAMPLE for us.

Isaiah 9:6 “For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.” His NAME is called “Immanuel” and “Yahshua”, for HE IS GOD WITH US/GOD TOWARD US/GOD OUR SAVIOR.

Yahshua pre-existed the begotten Son as YHWH Himself. For He said that “Abraham rejoiced to see My day” (John 8:56) – and when did Abraham SEE His day? I would say when YHWH appeared to him to tell him Sarah would have a son (Gen 18). Likewise, Yahshua said clearly in John 8:58 “BEFORE Abraham was BORN, I AM.” You have NOTHING to refute these facts. To deny them is to deny YHWH.


robert 4 years ago

actually the word was a god not God. my guess the word was the one accounted as first born after lucifer gave up his birth right. I think Michael my be this only offspring(monogenh) after and all other heavenly beings are created not formed as a offspring. plus in Revelation the Word fits perfectly with the how Michael brough the word to the Israelites and many before them. but i dont not believe Yahshua was Michael but was indwelled by him to speak the word as a very special prophet


DT 4 years ago

JD, if you are not saying that we are guilty of Adam's sin then I agree with you. Also, I never denied the existence of anyone's sins. My objection to your beliefs is the following: "Why do you think we needed a ‘last Adam’ that had NO earthly father to redeem that which was lost?" To assert something like this is essentially saying that is a sin to be born. I didn't create myself in my mother's womb. God did. And if God created me in my mother's womb then it is his fault that I am a sinner. In fact, it is actually to my personal contention that those who promote inherited sin doctrine are the ones who are not keeping to that verse in 1 John 1 that you cited. As for 2 Corinthians 5:19, it is talking about Jesus being made by God to be our sin offering. There is nothing about inherited sin doctrine here. This is a concept that must be read into the text. But if you are simply going to oppose my viewpoint on inherited sin on account that you believe I am saying "I have not sinned" then you are not going to convince me. That is not what I am saying. I am saying that I was not born a sinner. Also, I agree that Adam's first sin was sin entering the world. He abused his free will.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

robert, No other ‘god’ will Judge you; there is only One God, One Judge, One Almighty. Yahshua is THE One, True God (1 John 5:20), THE Judge and THE ALMIGHTY: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-ALMIGH...

Isa 43:10 states, “Before Me there was no god formed, And there will be none after Me.”

Isa 45:23 declares, “I have sworn by Myself, The Word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to ME every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.”

Phil 2:10-11 “so that at the name of Yahshua EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Yahshua haMashiach is YHWH, to the GLORY of God the Father.”

1 Cor 12:3 “…no one can say, "Yahshua is YHWH," except by the Holy Spirit.”

There is no such entity as ‘Lucifer’. That NAME was inserted by the RCC and is only found once in the text of the Bible (Isaiah 14). Michael is NOT the offspring of God; no angel was ever ‘born’, but created; just as Adam was created and not born. For this reason they are called ‘sons of God’. Mankind, through FAITH, is called ‘sons of the Most High’ aka ‘sons of God’. Angel means messenger, and for this reason even pastors are called ‘angels’ in the first three chapters of Revelation (“to the angel of the church at * write…”). Why is that? They proclaim the WORD OF YHWH and are NOT to proclaim their own word.

No angel will judge (Jude 1:9), but born-again believers will judge the angels! (1 Cor 6:3) “And to which of the angels did YHWH say, “Sit at My right hand”?” (Heb 1:13) NONE. It’s good you do not believe Yahshua was Michael, but to say Yahshua was indwelt by Michael is to call Michael THE WORD and to call Michael THE DEITY. THAT IS A LIE FROM HELL.

Yes, YHWH appeared as ‘The Angel of YHWH’, as He took on an image/voice to speak to mankind in the Old Testament. THAT was Yahshua, the Word and image of the invisible God. When the prophets of old spake, they spake the WORD OF YHWH given to them by HIS SPIRIT. Again, that is why angels and prophets are called ‘messengers’. Prophets and Angels bring messages FROM GOD and they speak what YHWH gives them. THEY are NOT THE WORD, for the WORD is GOD = Yahshua. This is why it is very important to understand what Yahshua said in John 12:48 “the word I spoke [not the word Michael spoke or the word My Father spoke] is what will judge him at the last day.”


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

In John 3:5 Yahshua said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water [the womb] and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” Therefore, it is a BLESSING to be BORN. SIN has already been atoned for, and we have been given salvation BY FAITH in following our Shepherd, who is the LORD (YHWH) Ps. 23:1; John 10:11, 14.

Yes, GOD created you in your mother’s womb (Is 44:24; Ps 139:13-16). Your name was written in the Book of Life, for otherwise, you would not have been born. Can your name be blotted out? Absolutely (see scriptures in above comments to robert).

YHWH abhors child sacrifice, as is shown in my hub “With His OWN Blood” http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/With-His-O... . Acts 20:28 states that God (He) PURCHASED the Church with HIS OWN BLOOD. YHWH is the Husband to Israel (Jer 31:32), the ‘Bridegroom’ to the CHURCH (Mat 25; Rev 21:2). In Jewish culture, betrothed is the same as married. There is only ONE Husband. The Church (True Israel) is the Wife of YHWH. We look forward to the Wedding Feast, amen!

You may believe you were not ‘born into sin’ or ‘born to sin’, but you inherited the propensity to sin from Adam and no doubt, have given into that propensity. For this reason, you need a Savior and YHWH said, “There is NO SAVIOR besides Me.” Sure, your physical life can be saved by any ‘savior’, but your soul cannot be saved by any human. As it stands, FEW will be saved and I’m telling you, if even a FEW could have been saved by not sinning (if it were possible), we would not have needed the blood of Yahshua, our God and Savior.


robert 4 years ago

its sad that you allow lucifer to decieve you in believing a lie, to cover this you deny the existance of yours and adam's havah deceiver.

actually what has been translated lucifer is heylel which is the name of the pre fallen first born of the Elohim who out of self pride sought o set upon the Elohim throne forever after he was seated to rule while the Elohim rested their Sabbath. Yahshua as the firstborn of the dead is to do what THE ADAM was created to do when the Elohim rested again.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

robert, you'll either speak Truth or blasphemies. You've just stated that the king of Babylon was the first-born of YHWH. I thought you also stated Michael the Archangel was the first-born of YHWH? YOU are CONFUSED and YHWH is NOT the author of confusion! (1 Cor 14:33)

Satan deceives the whole world ("world" being those whose names are no longer written in the Lamb's Book of Life - Rev 13:8). Satan is not Lucifer, and if you believe this is not so, based on YOUR interpretation of Rev 12:7-9, then you have just declared that Satan is the first-born of YHWH. SHAME!!!!

For a CLEAR study on this subject, I have written about it here: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Is-Lucifer...

We're done here, child of the devil (John 8:44).


DT 4 years ago

JD, I have covered and responded already to your proof texts of Christ's deity so I will not do this again because this just turns into endless banter and gets us absolutely no where. I would invite you to visit my blog if you want to see these things answered. I hope to cover the Yahweh as husband and Christ as husband texts soon. As for what I inherited from Adam, I did not inherit a "propensity to sin" I inherited a free will. And I abused this free will. So likewise, Yahushua also has free will. Yahushua was born with free will. He could have sinned if he wanted to but he chose not to. If you believe that Yahushua is not a puppet, then you also believe he could have sinned if he wanted to. Yahushua commanded us to be perfect as his Father in heaven is perfect. Thus, if we could just follow his commands, things would be better. The inherited sin doctrine runs contrary to the message of hope in the true gospel of Christ.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT - God gives us a choice and the freedom to choose what we choose to believe. I don't disrespect you, though I do not agree with or support your beliefs. I hope you also can respect that.

Only God can deal with each one of us individually, to reveal what He wishes to reveal and with that, we are to respond ~ either to accept what He reveals or to reject it. What He's revealed to me is what you once believed, too, yet neither of us influenced each other, as we didn't know each other. No person taught me what I believe and no person can change what I believe. I don't know if you were taught 'Oneness' doctrine by a person/group or if it was revealed to you. There is a difference when it comes to unwavering faith.

Since His revelation to me, I abandonded the teachings of men in this regard. I worship Jesus (Yahshua) as God and I do not worship angels, no matter what. I do pray God blesses you also and I appreciate peace. Respect is necessary to go forward and grow.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, I’ve looked at your blog in the past and it’s way off base. Yahushua IS The Holy One of Israel that became the second Adam and could not sin because He IS The Holy One of Israel. For this reason, He was not born of the first Adam, in that He was not conceived of a human father. For this reason, He was perfect and yes, we are to be perfect as His Father in heaven is perfect. So, we'll look at the four points I've just stated and back them up with scripture:

1. Establish Who The Holy One Is, not Holy Two or Three.

2. Yahushua did not have a human father.

3. If Yahushua IS the Father, did He ever say He was both on earth and in heaven at the same time?

4. How are we made perfect as He (the Father) is perfect? Is it by the Law as you state?

1. The HOLY ONE

Isa 43:3“For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, Cush and Seba in your place.” This is speaking of the LORD GOD, not Michael their Prince (Dan 10:21). Michael is never called “The HOLY One of Israel”. Michael was created and could choose not to follow YHWH His God. Look at what Yahushua said to Satan in the desert (Mat 4:7) “Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'" Who is THE LORD YOUR GOD? Yahushua!!

John 6:69 “We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One [the] God." The Greek actually uses the article tou [the] where the English uses ‘of’. A Greek lesson ‘tou’ – does it mean ‘the’ or ‘of’? tou is used as the following...tou exi dexi pou enai to autokinito.....he has shown him where the car is.... (tou) refers to the subject talked about in this case the man who has been shown the car.... tou is also masculine. It is the Greek definition 3588 THE: http://concordances.org/greek/3588.htm

2. Jesus did not have a human father:

Mat 1:18 “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, BEFORE THEY CAME TOGETHER she was found to be with child of [1537] the Holy Spirit.” Greek 1537 is ek or ex - from the interior outwards.

3. Jesus both in Heaven and on Earth

John 3:13 “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down [ek – from the interior outwards] heaven, [inserted - even] the Son of man WHICH IS IN heaven.” Here is the Greek: http://biblos.com/john/3-13.htm Now, we can look at how Yahushua taught us to pray in Mat 6:9, "Our Father which art in heaven..."

4. How are we made perfect as He is perfect?

Mat 5:20 “"For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

Gal 2:21 “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

2 Cor 5:21 “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” The tabernacle of YHWH’s flesh was made to be sin for us, as the Holy One IN Him, the Spirit, could not be defiled. For this reason, His flesh could be blasphemed, but not His Spirit (Luke 12:10), for they were saying He had an unclean Sprit (Mark 3:30). Likewise, when we are born again, we receive the Holy Spirit and thus are made the righteousness of God in Christ (the Lamb). There is NO other Way to be made righteous, based on the New Covenant in His own blood (Acts 20:28).


DT 4 years ago

Judah's Daughter,

You and I both know that it is foolish banter to debate about these issues.

1. Establish Who The Holy One Is, not Holy Two or Three.

JD, there are many holy ones in the Bible.

Daniel 8:13 - Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, "How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled under foot?"

There are then at least two holy ones. The Greek has a genitive which is why we see the word "of" in our English Bibles. We know that "Holy One of the God" is an appropriate translation based on Acts 2:27.

2. Yahushua did not have a human father.

JD, he is the Son of David. Mary is not a descendant of David. Joseph is. Jesus would have to have a human father. We do not have the original manuscripts so it is very likely that early church fathers in their biases added this story to the Bible. Or perhaps it is a display of historical discrepancies within the Bible. It is not infallible and it is foolish to believe that one book has all the answers.

3. If Yahushua IS the Father, did He ever say He was both on earth and in heaven at the same time?

JD, I have seen that link on biblos for John 3:13. I have also read commentary on that verse. Westcott and Hort do not have it in their manuscripts.

4. How are we made perfect as He (the Father) is perfect? Is it by the Law as you state?

Forgive me JD but there has been some misunderstanding. I never said that salvation came through the law. In fact, I would actually contend that salvation never came through the law even in the Hebrew Bible.

I believe we have discussed Acts 20:28 before. I believe the more appropriate translation would be "church of the Lord". Can we just see where we are coming from and say "fair enough"? I do not want to be attacked.

God bless.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, Check out the Hebrew in Dan 8:13, ‘a holy one’ is not used twice, as you claim: http://biblos.com/daniel/8-13.htm “heard and another A holy speaking said and another one certain was speaking against how will the vision the regular the transgression causing the holy and the host treading” – therefore, this passage does not contradiction the Holy ONE.

Acts 2:27 does not read ‘the Holy One of The God’. It literally reads “The Holy One, the God”.

Regarding the genealogy of Mary:

http://home.inreach.com/bstanley/geneal.htm

Westcott and Hort claim they found an older Greek transcript in the trash can at the Vatican Library in the 19th Century, which were utilized in translating the New Testament of the New World Translation for the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Don’t ask me to respect any of their commentaries!

http://www.graceway.com/articles/article_025.html

Believe what you want about what Acts 20:28, the Church of God is what is in the original Greek text and the ‘He’ it speaks of is THE GOD (tou theou), who purchased THE CHURCH with HIS OWN BLOOD (haimatos tou idiou). There is NO SAVIOR BESIDES ME, said YHWH in the Old Testament (Isa 43:11/Hos 13:4) and He is NOT a liar. This Savior is the One who will save us from our SIN, save our SOULS, which NO other (human) savior can do.

It is very difficult for me to tolerate your blasphemies, so if you want to accuse me of being disrespectful, do so. I simply will not continue a debate on the deity of Christ. You know better and have chosen, as Adam did, to go your own way.


DT 4 years ago

Judah's Daughter,

I really don't want to debate you on this subject either, but everything you said here is based on pseudoapologetics. You actually need to read the Hebrew and you will see that there are two holy ones in Daniel 8:13.

Likewise, you need to re-read Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:23-38 which actually contain the genealogies. My New Testament professor was saying how he was told how one genealogy was for Mary and the other was for Joseph but this is not so. Both the genealogies are for Joseph.

Again, regarding Acts 20:28, I am not referring to Westcott and Hort on this one. I am referring to Ezra Abbot.

Actually, God is a liar if this is meant to be taken literally for he did delegate other saviors (Judges 3:9). Please don't accuse me or treat me like crap. We are both in search of truth. And I am not debating you. You are presenting what you see, I am presenting what I see. If you carry truth, then you should not feel threatened. If you tote around a lie, then you will feel threatened.

God bless you and have a great prayer day! :)


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

First of all, DT, I don't feel the least bit 'threatened' by you, rather I feel annoyed. You consider what you believe to be truth and if I accept your truth then peace to me? Sorry, but the Bible tells me I will be hated on account of His name, not loved by those who oppose the truth. You keep coming back here, so I can only think it has something to do with conviction.

I printed the Hebrew out for you in Dan 8:13. You even refute a pastor who told you Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:23-38 show both genialogies of Mary and Joseph? I see you picking out teachers (men) that support what you believe (for you continually quote and give links to commentary after commentary) and NOT relying on the Bible and the Holy Spirit. I believe what the Bible says in Acts 20:28, not Ezra Abbot or anyone else.

You just called God a liar when He declared there is no Savior besides Him. It is written by two prophets and thus it is Truth (two witnesses). You think any man called 'a savior' can save your soul? NO MAN can save your soul, including Westcott and Hort and Ezra Abbot. Trust them for your salvation. I'm trusting God IN Yahushua (YHWH Saves) for mine. Acts 4:12 clearly states, "And there is salvation in NO ONE ELSE; for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven that has been given among MEN by which we must be saved."


DT 4 years ago

JD, I'm not saying what I am toting around is truth.

As for the "savior" issue, I will let you take this one up with God.

Judges 3:9 - But when the Israelites cried out to the Lord, the Lord raised up a deliverer for the Israelites, who delivered them, Othniel son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother.

The word for deliverer used here is the same exact one in Isaiah 43:11.

http://biblos.com/isaiah/43-11.htm

http://biblos.com/judges/3-9.htm

As for Acts 4:12, I must ask who gave Yahushua the name that which we must be saved? Thus, I think the message is that there is no savior acknowledged by God unless he delegates the savior. Otherwise, the Bible is contradictory.

God bless.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Is Othniel son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother our Savior that saves our SOULs? No. As I said, there is only ONE Savior that saves our souls. Yahushua is the Name, the only Name whereby we must be saved and since YHWH is the Only Savior, Yahushua IS YHWH Himself (the Holy Spirit) IN the flesh. YHWH has many names all throughout the Bible, all beginning with YHWH - YHWH Nissi, YHWH Yireh, etc. etc. etc. He IS El Shadday (The Almighty God); His Name as Savior is Yahushua! YHWH Saves! This is about your SOUL, not life or death of the flesh.


DT 4 years ago

Judah's Daughter,

Jesus's in the Bible include:

Jesus Barabbas, the one who stood on trial before Jesus Messiah.

There is a son of Jesus in Acts 13:6.

There is a Jesus, son of Eleazar, son of Sirach in Ben Sira 50:27.

There is a Jesus Justus in Colossians 4:11.

And of course there is Joshua.

I hope this list at least helps you see my side.

God bless.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

And Who IS this Jesus (Yahushua) of Nazareth? What IS His Name?

Ex 3:14 “God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

John 8:58 “Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM."

John 6:19-20 “Then, when they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and drawing near to the boat; and they were frightened. But He said to them, "I AM; do not be afraid."

JOB 9:8 “Which ALONE spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.” (speaking of God in vs. 2)

John 8:24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."

For this reason, this Jesus of Nazareth was crucified (blasphemy). There is no other Jesus that is the Almighty God, the Savior of all who will believe.


DT 4 years ago

Hello Judah's Daughter,

In John 8:58, Jesus is claiming pre-existence over Abraham. Jason BeDuhn, in his book Truth In Translation concluded that the Living Bible has the best translation. The blasphemy that Jesus committed was that in Jewish culture Abraham has a huge status. Jesus, by claiming pre-existence, demonstrated that he had a far higher status than Abraham (John 1:30). In fact, a claim to be the Messiah in Jesus's days was exactly that - blasphemy.

Ego eimi, in the Greek text is a self-identification. For instance, the blind man also says ego eimi in John 9:9. As for Job 9:8, we must remember that Peter also walked on water.

Going back to ego eimi, there is also an implied predicate often. Jesus has just stated that he is from above and the Pharisees are from below so it is possible that he is saying if you do not believe that "I am [from above], you will die in your sins" but then he also says in verse 26 that he is the one he has been saying he was from the beginning which is referencing the beginning of the dialoge he is having with the Pharisees which starts in John 8:12. Thus, he could also be saying "if you do not believe that I am [the Light of the World], you will die in your sins".

I really don't want to debate you. I'm just trying to show you my side. God bless you and have a wonderful day! :)


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

So Jesus was claiming pre-existence in John 8:58. Did ANYONE else have pre-existence in all of humanity? You’re not of Mormon doctrine also, are you? Now, some of the Jews appear to believe in a type of reincarnation, when you consider Mat 16:13-14 “Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets." So you think they would crucify anyone who claimed pre-existence as any of these men, including Abraham? What other men who claimed to be the Jewish Messiah are recorded in the Bible as having been executed for such?

Speaking of John 8:58, let’s read just two verses before to put it in context: (56) “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." What do you think this is talking about? How about reading Genesis 18:22 “The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD (YHWH).”

You wish to compare or make equal the blind man’s statement in John 9:9? In this case, he was adamantly trying to convince those who were doubting he was the same man that was blind that was standing before them with sight ~ in other words, “I am the SAME man that was blind, but now I see.”

So Peter walked on water, too – Who walked on the water first? Did Peter do this of his own power? Did he do so without sinking? You will take words such as “ALONE” in Job 9:8 and pull the sneaky lawyer tactic? Who is the biblical “prosecuting attorney” in the Bible again?

Speaking of the Light, let’s look at the Psalms and Prophets:

Ps 27:1 “A Psalm of David. The LORD (YHWH) is my LIGHT and my salvation”

Ps 118:27 “The LORD (YHWH) is God, and He has made His Light shine upon us.”

Is 60:20 ” the LORD (YHWH) will be your everlasting light,”

Micah 7:8 “Though I sit in darkness, the LORD (YHWH) will be my light”

The pre-existing, eternal LIGHT is YHWH Owri in the flesh of Yahushua! So, I quote YOU: “if you do not believe that I am [the Light of the World], you will die in your sins". Take it either way. This passage and many other witnesses of scripture show you clearly who He IS: The Great I AM.


DT 4 years ago

Matthew 5:14

Acts 2:22

John 9:22

Abraham prophetically saw the Messiah's day.

Please forgive me if I have been rude. Grace and peace to you.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

DT, Why are we the Light of the world in Mat 5:14, "a city set on a hill?" Because we are BORN AGAIN and the Light is IN us. It is not our own Light, but the Light of Christ IN us! (John 1:8)

Acts 2:22 can be cross-referenced with Col 2:9, for "In HIM [Yahushua] DWELLS (present tense) the fullness of THE Deity bodily". Read John 14:5-14. Vs. 7-8 "If you really knew Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have SEEN Him.” Vs. 10 "it is the Father, living IN Me, who is doing His work."

What does John 9:22 have to do with anything? That the Jews would put anyone out of the synagogue for believing Yahushua was the Messiah? They weren's executed, were they?

We've specifically covered John 8:56 and 58, but NOW we shall look at vs. 57: "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou SEEN Abraham?" Even THEY knew Yahushua was NOT talking about Abraham prophetically seeing His day...

Your arguments (as in legal presenation) are straw, hay and stubble. Faith is gold, of which there is no fire that will destroy it.


OneGod 3 years ago

JD, I believe you would find much confirmation of what you have discovered regarding the Godhead in a book by David K. Bernard entitled, The Oneness of God. It is available at Amazon.com. Additionally, I think you would appreciate the work of Jason Dulle in matters regarding the Godhead and Christology. He has a blog, http://theosophical.wordpress.com, where much of his writing on the subject is available. Additionally, his article, Avoiding the Achilles Heels of Trinitarianism, Modalistic Monarchianism, and Nestorianism: The Acknowledgement and Proper Placement of the Distinction Between Father and Son, found at http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/ugstsymposium.ht...


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 3 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi there OneGod! Yes, this hub was my first after being given the revelation of who God is! I thought I was 'aslone' out here in the Trinitarian world. I found David K Bernard and realize there are millions who have been shown the Oneness of God, praise Him! The distinction is 1) invisible, omnipresent and 2) visible, present = Spirit and flesh during the years of the Son. I have grapsed it and am blessed as Jacob! Thank you so much, and God bless you!


Norine Williams 11 months ago

You are a PRIME EXAMPLE of how The Holy Spirit "reveals" to the "learned" (Hebrew & Greek=you) as well as the "unlearned" (No Hebrew & Greek=me) yet the SAME revelation of TRUTH in His Word has been revealed!

You and I are blessed in that "no man has revealed this unto us, "but by the revelation of Jesus Christ" (Galatians 1:12)! It matters not one's education, for I BELIEVE John 14:26 and 16:13 {paraphrasing} the "Holy Spirit will reveal "ALL TRUTH!"

God Bless!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 11 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Praising God together with you, sister Norine! It's awesome when God, by His Spirit, finds us worthy to receive! May we continue to be witnesses of the Truth! HalleluYah!


Norine Williams 11 months ago

I "literally" cried when I read your response Praising God that He has found me worthy to reveal "TRUTH" in His Word! THANK YOU JESUS!

May GOD continue to Bless!

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