Lives Destroyed by the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)

The KJV Study Bible (Bonded Leather) (King James Bible)
The KJV Study Bible (Bonded Leather) (King James Bible)

Bibles strengthen Christians and make great gifts. Many Christians keep a spare Bible in their trunk. If you ever have an opportunity to evangelize, be sure to have something to give.

 

What is the NAR?

The NAR stands for the "New Apostolic Reformation". Leaders within this movement believe they are the new apostles who will pave the way for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. The problem is, almost all of their teachings are extra-biblical.

The word "extra-Biblical" does not simply mean that their acts are not in the scriptures. It means they are not condoned by scripture, are warned against both directly in explicit warnings and indirectly in the stories of the history of men and women who trusted God, and who walked away from God.

Those within the NAR attempt to block their churches' members from listening to arguments of this sort. Bill Johnson, of Redding, California, for example, tells his church that the Old Testament no longer applies. This is because many detractors refer to OT scriptures to counter the signs and wonders of Bill's Bethel church and ministry.

I am going to relate to you some personal experiences of people I knew who got into NAR doctrines like "soaking", "fire tunnels" and false healings. If you have a similar testimony, please, please, please post a comment. People need to be warned.

As Christians, we should pray both against the growth of this false movement and for those who are already ensnared- both leaders and captives.

Soaking False Doctrine

I clipped this out of search results for "soaking" using the King James Version. (blueletterbible.com) It is not there. Soaking is a false doctrine.
I clipped this out of search results for "soaking" using the King James Version. (blueletterbible.com) It is not there. Soaking is a false doctrine. | Source

What is Soaking?

Soaking is part of a New Age movement called "the third wave". Soaking originates in eastern religions. It is popular in Buddhism and Hinduism. It is a type of spirit meditation. The idea is to just lay back and "open up" to allow spirits to enter. In the West, this activity is now called soaking.

In the Third Wave, also called the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), the claim is that people should "open up" to the Holy Spirit of Almighty God. However, in this group, with the exception of John Paul Jackson, they rarely reference scripture, or even use the name Jesus. All of them, including JPJ, twist scripture. JPJ and Bill Johnson are the most adept- both were raised in Christian households, attended church, and know the Bible well. They are skilled at warping it to fit the mold of the end goals.

Soaking is not justifiable using scripture. This word is found nowhere in the Bible. Neither is the idea of just opening oneself to anything. In fact, in Revelation, God expresses his joy with the Bereans- because they tested every word they heard against the holy scriptures.

Another scripture tells us that if two or three prophecy, we should consider what is said. If we are only told to consider a prophecy delivered from two or three prophets, how much more cautious should we be with teachings?

Search the scripture. Is soaking found there? Opening oneself to spirits with abandon?

Demons and Deliverance: In The Ministry Of Jesus  (Spiritual Warfare (Impact Christian))
Demons and Deliverance: In The Ministry Of Jesus (Spiritual Warfare (Impact Christian))

One way false religions defend themselves is to reinterpret or redefine the position of their opponents. NAR leaders tell their followers detractors simply do not believe in healing. That is untrue. Here is a great book on deliverance- the Biblical way.

 

The Ice Cream Shop Owners

When I first moved to Modesto a few years ago, I met the owners of a downtown ice cream shop, a married couple. The wife's mother got involved with the NAR. I want to be clear: these are wonderful people, who care about others. Through them, I also met a contractor and his wife, who remain my friends today.

This wife's mother refused to back out of following Rick Joyner and Bill Johnson. At these meetings, gold dust and perfect gemstones appeared. She said she received one of the gemstones at a meeting. I asked to see it, but her response was a little like Gollum in The Lord of the Rings. She was possessive of it, and refused to show it to anyone.

One day, as I prayed, the Holy Spirit told me to pray for the health of the contractor, our mutual friend. I obeyed; off and on over the following weeks, I prayed for his health.

A Curse on the Contractor

A few weeks following the warning, the ice cream shop wife, her mother, the contractor, and his wife, and a few others were in a prayer meeting. The mother, who possessed the gem, crossed the room and stopped in front of the contractor.

As the contractor later told me, "She placed her bony finger directly on my sternum."

Then, with her finger on the center of his chest, she said, "I bless you with health."

Immediately, the contractor crumpled to the floor in pain. He instantly suffered a major heart attack. He barely survived. While he recovered, he lost work. Eventually, the bank repossessed his backhoes and his trenching business failed. The old friends' great friendship ended after this chain of events.

The owners of the ice cream shop lost their business, too. They also divorced.

Remember: One of the key indicators of a false prophet, as given to us in the scriptures, is the presence of "all iniquity". Here we see financial ruin, attacks on health, and division (divorce and broken friendships). If the NAR works its way into your life, you can expect to find these things increasing.

It does not end there.

Curse on my mother and grandmother:

My wife refused to believe these things were based upon a rejection of God to follow the teachings of men. She invited the now-single, former shop owner and her mother to attend her (my wife's) birthday party.

The night preceding the party, the Holy Spirit warned me in a dream, "Do NOT allow her to slap you on the back."

The day of the party was nice. A few good friends visited. We sang praise songs and the shop owner's mother played guitar. I kept her in front of me the entire night. I either sat on the couch or leaned my back on a wall.

As people began to leave, I went to the door to bid farewell. The mother came from behind, slapped me on the back as she passed, and said, "Tomorrow, you will have a good day." She meant it as a blessing. But, here is what happened:

The next day, my mother had a nervous breakdown and was checked into a mental clinic. My grandmother fell down some stairs, and was hospitalized. The fall was so bad, all her children and grandchildren were called to make a last visit. Today, my mother is fine. However, my grandmother never fully recovered, and passed on three months later.

If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay [it] to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay [it] to heart. (Malachi 2:2)

This scripture sums up what eventually befalls those who get into NAR false doctrines, and choose those lying signs and wonders over giving glory to the Father. Those who refuse to give glory unto the name of God, He turns their blessings into curses. This woman believed she was blessing the contractor and me. But, she cursed us! She is a nice lady, who wanted to serve God. Do not think you are better than her and can stay in such nonsense untainted. Please, if you are in the NAR, get out! Repent of it, and break curses.

Are you beginning to see the correlation between destruction and the NAR? They claim many, many healings, even raising the dead. However, when ABC challenged Todd Bentley to provide one person to testify of his or her healing, all Bentley's team could produce was one letter from a lady who basically said she "felt better", though she was not completely healed.

Please, warn your friends and brethren by sharing on Facebook and Twitter.

3-foot high angels

The Assembly of God Pastor

Todd Bentley proclaimed him healed. But, this man died.

I did not personally know this man. However, I made a friendship with a former AoG pastor who knew him through monthly meetings of AoG pastors in the Tacoma area of Washington state.

This man developed a visible tumor, the size of a softball. Doctors said it was inoperable, and he would have maybe three years to live. The man heard about Todd Bentley of the NAR, in Lakeland, Florida. He went. Todd (a name which means "fox") had been vetted by several of the biggest names in the NAR: Che Ahn, Peter Arnott, Bill Johnson, Rick Joyner, and other "distinguished apostles" converged to bless and commission Todd Bentley using anointing oil provided by Chuck Pierce.

When he returned, he was praising God and proclaiming his healing. The softball-sized lump was gone.

Three months later, he died. The tumor had somehow, in the meeting with Bentley, internalized. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? An external, large tumor disappearing from sight to hide inside the body? Is it a healing if life expectancy is reduced from three years to three months?

Later, when forces too strong for FreshFire Ministries to suppress came forward with information about Todd Bentley's affairs (two, not just the one with his new wife), all the pastors who certified Todd came out admitting they felt some kind of reservation or check in the spirit.

Do you have a check in the spirit about these people and their powers?

Bentley was preaching drunk on stage and could not control his lust. The biggest leaders gave him "a kingly anointing". Bill Johnson said to Bentley, "you receive the anointing as well as anyone". So, Bill Johnson felt something was wrong with Bentley, but honored him before a national television audience and elevated him to equal status with other NAR princes.

How often does Bill do that? How much of his ministry does he really believe? A good tree does not bare evil fruit.

Prophesying when you know something is wrong, and proclaiming a man healed, who then dies 92% sooner than expected are completely different than what we see from Biblical prophets like Elijah and Elisha. The Internet coined a new term to describe what Bentley and Johnson do on a regular basis, prophelying.

All These "apostles" Anoint Bentley

Todd Strikes a Man on Stage

Engagement Ruined by False Prophecy

I have a friend living in San Jose. He worked very hard for the church. He met a nice woman in the church, and they were engaged to be married. They planned to marry after his fiancée completed her bachelor's degree in business. One weekend, Kris Vallaton came to their church.

He prophelied, "Someone in this church is going to become a Supreme Court Justice!" He looked around until his eyes settled on the business student, an attractive young woman. "It is you!" he proclaimed, and pointed directly at her.

She dropped out of her business major curriculum and entered a pre-law tract. A woman who never even considered a law career quit what had always been on her heart for something else. But, the story gets worse.

She decided that working hard to become a Justice required too much hard work to be married. She broke her engagement.

Have you shared this on Facebook yet? People are dying. Lives are being destroyed.

An Outstanding Family Afflicted with Health Maladies

Several years ago, I initiated a conversation in a Save Mart. As I guided the conversation around toward salvation, the woman began to preach to me many things I was glad to hear. My wife and I attended their church a few times. The pastor taught about peace, the people prayed and believed in God. It was a nice, mid-sized church. The most popular couple were the woman I met, we'll call her Jane, and her husband, who we will call Jim.

They have 9 children. The youngest, a late surprise, was 9, and very beautiful. She had a child's ministry of giving hugs. It may seem a bit silly. But, she really gave the warmest hugs. I could really feel love when she hugged, and I liked those hugs! They are a really great family. All the children believe in God. One is now an associate pastor.

Jim had an excellent job. They lived in the same family home they had always owned.

After 19 years, Jim quit his job as chief engineer in a hospital, sold his home, and moved his wife and youngest daughter to Redding to attend Bethel church under Bill Johnson.

I saw him last week, back in Modesto- the reason I now write this article.

After he arrived in Redding, his new job began to dry up. He had to return to the Central Valley so that his friends in the HVAC business could find him another job. He would be retired from the hospital now, if he had remained there.

About two years after returning from Bethel, when I met him, his wife had undergone several surgeries for a constant series of bulges (hernias) in her stomach. His beautiful daughter had back surgery to correct a twisting spine (this sounds like the serpent spirit that enters the spine, which the NAR movement shares in common with Black Buddhism). Surgeons cut 5 ribs and twisted her spine into place. She has metal fixtures to keep it in place. His wife had to have a full "shield" canvas inserted into her abdomen to keep all of her innards inside.

This seems to be very common: people trade one demon for a worse demon, or for more demons. We see only the results. People who allow this Trojan Horse of the NAR into their lives suffer for it.

And, the most bizarre part is this: Those who go to Bill's establishment believe they are better off. They believe, like the AoG pastor from Washington, that they are healed. But, a neutral outsider, just observing the obvious, can plainly see they have suffered heavily. This seems to be very consistent. I believe this is part of the strong delusion. (2 Thes 2:10-12, Isa 44:20, 2 Tim 4:4, Romans 1:28).

Are YOU Worse?

If you ever participated in NAR conferences or events, and one laid hands on you, are you worse off? Please be honest for the benefit of us all.

  • I attended an NAR church, and I am worse off than before I started with them.
  • I attended an NAR church, but I am better off.
  • I know someone who thought healing happened, but is now worse.
  • I know someone who thought healing happened, but is now dead.
  • I am a living example of someone who was healed at an NAR meeting, and I am (*cough*) just fine.
  • I was healed at an NAR meeting.
  • My life is better since I joined the NAR in one of these ways: health, finance, relationships, faith, AND life is better overall.
See results without voting

Former NAR Prophet Speaks Out

This man's life is ruined, too. He just doesn't know it. You won't believe this.

Palm Reading, Gold Teeth, and other Extra-Biblical Signs & Wonders @3:10- does an anointing transfer by laying of hands? @8:40- the bizarre palm reading method

Kundalini Manifestations in the NAR and in Buddhism

My Own Testimony of Demonic Affliction from an NAR Affiliate

A few years ago, a small local church began to have a revival. A new leader came into a church full of octogenarians. There were some healings, and the Holy Spirit lead several leaders in the Christian community to start attending services there. My wife and I joined this mini-revival.

There were more healings. A lot of healings. People were being saved. One woman prayed for her ill neighbor over the phone. Her lymphoma healed that same hour. The neighbor got saved and started attending services. Another woman had lung cancer and several other maladies, and a few months to live. One of the ladies in the church called two others. They prayed for her, and she also was healed! One day, I experienced a pain in my left shoulder. The Holy Spirit guided me, and I said in the worship that we should pray for people with pain in their left shoulder. Three people came up- and the Holy Spirit healed all three. It was amazing.

Later, the pastor (without telling anyone) started to read about Todd Bentley and the "Lakeland Revival", aka "Florida Outpouring". He also began to read Bill Johnson and other NAR leaders.

Some problems arose in the church. People started to become ill. Strange people began to join the church, fans of Bill Johnson. The son of our neighbor, a member of the church, started having sex with his girlfriend. He ran away with her. They supported their love by robbing McDonald's franchises. He had been an assistant manager, and knew policy required them to hand over the cash. He was caught and convicted in three states.

The assistant youth pastor (21 y-o?) impregnated one of the youth (19?).

The youth pastor was fired (not the assistant) when he cautioned the pastor that Bill Johnson and the NAR are extra-Biblical. Instead, a young couple replaced him. The pastor thought these newcomers were Bill Johnson fans. About this time, all the people who the Holy Spirit brought in at the beginning, when all the seniors were praying for revival, left. Most of the seniors had already left. In the place of their valuable prayers, demonic teachings came in.

Before Bentley admitted to drunkenness and left his wife to marry his second mistress, I compiled a CD of Todd Bentley's doings, his tattoos (3 of 4 scriptures on his skin are actually about Satan; one tattoo is a "death mask" of Jesus, a kind of art-spell against Jesus). He refused to even look at it. He said he did not have time to look at it. The paid, full-time pastor of a small congregation in a small town did not have time to review information warning that he was bringing demonic activity into the church. Wow. I repeated the research and posted an article here: Todd Bentley's Tattoos.

After Bentley confessed the drunkeness was true, and divorced his wife, no apology came from the pastor for not believing me.

I began to warn members of the church that Bill Johnson (whose face went up on the overhead during at least two sermons) and Todd Bentley were working for the devil. People asked the pastor if he was into Bill Johnson. Despite quoting Johnson, using NAR keywords like "soaking", flashing Johnson's face on the big screen, and despite conversations between him and me, this pastor told at least two members that he "never heard of" Bill Johnson. These two returned to me and reported this denial.

Bill Johnson's face went up on the big screen. "Fire tunnels" came into the church. The pastor shared how he started "soaking" and how great it was. Meanwhile, he repeated to those who asked him that he was not into Bill Johnson. He even denied knowing who Bill Johnson is! I warned a few members. When they asked the pastor, he denied any knowledge. I guess he forgot I visited his house, and saw the books on his coffee table.

Again, I want to assert strongly to readers of this article: These are great people! They are wonderful and kind. They have all beautiful, intelligent children.

Personally, my finances began to suffer. I lost my job. I started working for myself. I finished work, and customers would not pay. Invoices piled up, unpaid. I got evicted and moved. The new house foreclosed while I was there. Financial woes continued. My wife began to have strange pains in her abdomen. We racked up $20,000 for one ER visit. Though the Holy Spirit finally told me I could give up on the pastor (about the same time the anti-NAR youth pastor was fired), my wife continued there because her friends went there.

Again, as I have said before- these are all wonderful people. Even the strange couple were friendly.

Only when my wife finally stopped asking to attend that church did my finances improve. I got several new customers. Invoices began being paid immediately. The transformation was amazing.

I have another incident, also bizarre. Read on...

Demons Transfer by the Laying on of Hands

I went to a meeting of Angela Greenig in Tracy, California. I loved her testimonies of bringing people out of Satanism, and bringing prostitutes to salvation. Further, respected friends spoke well of her.

When I arrived, I saw a Bill Johnson book for sale at the desk where I paid for my conference ticket. I mentioned it to the girl cashiering, who did not know anything about it other than they sold for $10 each.That was my first warning. But, I ignored it.

How many warning signs have you ignored?

The second warning came when I saw Greenig in person. In my BC (before Christ) days, I was a Marine and a woman chaser. I have had girlfriends. I have been in strip clubs. Sexual sin had me bound, and I thought I was free. Basically, I know those spirits when I see them.

When I saw her, I felt a glimpse of what a young man is looking for among the women in a bar. Angela is a very beautiful woman. And I don't mean just beautiful, she has a special kind of "attraction". In a bar, a man looking for romance might explore this further with flirtatious conversation. I'm not saying she has a full-born spirit of lust. I'm saying I caught a glimpse of something.

Later, in her preaching, she swung her hip in a curious way to punctuate something she said. It was very sexy. I have never seen a woman in church, the workplace, or even an academic environment rock her hip like that. This is a hip move strippers used to arouse men and inspire tips. I was shocked; but, her later testimony confirmed that she got saved out of stripping.

Angela came into the audience, prophesying over people. She touched a few women and said they had been the victims of rape. She called over some other ladies to pray for her, saying they had found peace and healing- after also being raped. All the women said this was true. It was awesome. Then, Angela came over and said my wife had also been raped. That was just completely wrong. My wife was a virgin when we met. I am the only man she has ever been with. She has never been sexually assaulted.

Next, Angela came over to me. She said I did not want to be a pastor because I believed that the job of a pastor is a thankless labor, and all the people burden pastors, who must work very hard. True, I heard this teaching while in the Methodist church, where pastors are worshiped, "poor Pastor Kent, he works so hard, and people burden him with all their problems." I heard the same in an independent church I attended, where the pastor's family also expected pastoral worship and honor.

However, the week before I went to see Greenig, the Holy Spirit corrected me on this false teaching.

He told me, "The work of a pastor is not a painful labor. It is a joy to bring the love of God to them, pouring out love like a living spring" (something like that). I completely changed my thinking about the work of pastors; it felt like a weight lifted. Then, Angela walked up and got it wrong. She had old intel. As she walked off, the thought hit me, "She's a psychic... pulling old information from a demon unfamiliar with last week's conversation with the Holy Spirit." Just then, Angela stutter stepped. An expression of shock crossed her face, she looked back at me very quickly, said nothing, then went back to the crying rape victim.

That was my third warning. It is amazing how much we can overlook to see the show, isn't it?

I later went through the "fire tunnel". The line was long and slow. The man behind me said he felt what he was seeing was not of God. I said it was. He said he was leaving. I attempted to convince him to remain. He was a martial artist, a jiu jitsu instructor. He told me he brought 8 people into the Kingdom just the previous month. That was my fourth warning. He left, I remained in line.

But, the words of the jiu jitsu instructor were not fruitless. Before entering, I prayed, "Lord, if this is not of you, then do not let me fall when the others do." Sure enough, though everyone was "slain in the spirit" ahead of me, I only got pushed back by Angela Greenig.

But, this was not without effect. As Angela pushed me back, I felt something electrical enter my head and kind of curl up at the base of the back of my skull.

As Angela walked away, two of her helpers saw me still standing and moved toward me. As they came close to Angela, I saw her put up her palm in front of her stomach and quickly move it back and forth. The wave-off was not meant to be seen by me, I'm sure. She knew something was up. They turned and went elsewhere.

I have been in many conferences and prayer sessions. I have felt the Holy Spirit many times. It has never felt "electrical" like that did. I have never felt the Holy Spirit focus on one part of my body. The sensation in the back of my head troubled me a lot.

Though my gift as a watchman for the Father is dreaming, I ceased having dreams. I began to pray and pray and pray. I accepted I erred greatly in allowing this. I repented and prayed in the deliverance style, commanding demons to leave me.

An NAR demon spoke to me

After repenting to my Father in Heaven, I commanded demons to depart and not return. (I had to remove any "unrepented sin" right of the enemy.) As I prayed, I said, "I want nothing to do with what is not of God."

Then, a spirit spoke to me. "Yes, but people will be healed and you will become famous," it said.

"I don't want you!" I proclaimed. "I want nothing to do with anything not of God. Go and do not return," I commanded. I prayed another twenty minutes, and went to bed.

Still, a week later, dreams remained absent. I prayed again, breaking chains and removing bondages. I prayed against blocks and snares. Again, I heard the same voice attempting to entice me.

"But people will be healed and you will become famous," it said.

"I only want to serve God," I said. "I do not care to be famous. I will heal people by the power of the Kingdom of God according to His promises, and not in friendship with the enemy," I said. Then, I felt it break. My dreams returned as they had been before.

If you, or anyone you know, has participated in a fire tunnel, or even entered an NAR meeting, prayer to break demonic works needs to happen. I mean this sincerely, with the love of Christ.

Update: My Grandfather Died within 24 hours of NAR pastor visit

My wife refuses to believe these NAR types are spiritually corrupt- whether they know it, or not. She recently returned from a long trip abroad caring for her mother.

A few days after adjusting to the California time zone, she phoned the wife of the pastor from the Oakdale church we abandoned. I left there as soon as the Holy Spirit gave me the go-ahead. Before that, I watched it become more and more spiritually perverse and bizarre. I worked hard to find another church. We even moved. Finally, my wife stopped attending there. But...

The pastor's wife showed up at our home so she and my wife could share breakfast and catch up. My wife invited her in, of course. And, she stepped into our home. I was called over to greet, and did so. I shook her hand and said, "Congratulations on your pregnancy." That's it.

The next morning, at 2 a.m. (I found out later), my grandfather, perhaps my favorite relative, ever, was wheeled into the ER. They determined he had internal bleeding and the medical staff slowly began to kill him in the standard manner they call "helping". At 8 a.m., he went to be with the Father.

I doubt this happens every time: meet an NAR leader, and your relative dies. However, I know better. Perhaps the impact is heavier for those who should know better, yet do not act accordingly.

My grandpa's 90th birthday party planned for a few days later was cancelled.

This is the Best Review of the False Teachings of NAR Teachers

Another NAR Oddity: Club Mysterio (named after an evil comic book villain)

Update on My Family

After a year of living in Ukraine, I have been able to look back and recognize that far more than what I originally put into this article began during our time at the NAR-friendly church. My wife had several bizarre health issues. I also suffered some misfortunes.

My wife once had severe pain in her lower abdomen. She could do nothing but lay in bed for three days. She had other pains and issues. A lab report said she might have cancer. I got bit by a dog. Four teeth broke the skin. But, one of those landing perfectly on a major nerve. The region beyond that remained numb for years. Still today, it remains a dull pain.

Our finances suffered tremendously. When I finally convinced my wife to attend Calvary Temple in Modesto, and completely quit the Oakdale church, we began to make money. Still, my wife kept asking the old (NAR-tainted) Christians for prayer. She fellowshiped occasionally with a few of the ladies, too.

Once we moved out of the country, our finances completely revived. Now, we are comfortable.

It helped greatly to move to another city, away from the NAR spirits. Much more, the move out of the country really helped. Our finances meet our needs, and more. My health is improving. So is my wife's.

Once outside of their influence, my wife began to look at videos of the bizarre nature of the NAR teachers. Before, she disregarded it as religious sniping. Now, she understands it is all from the enemy of God.

My advice to you is to move away. Repent of your involvement- as we did. And, command any and all unclean spirits that entered your life through the NAR or any other false religion to be gone and never return.

Peace,

MFM

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Comments 30 comments

LewSethics profile image

LewSethics 4 years ago

Black Buddhism is an african-american faith, and is not 'black' in the sense of evil, which this article attempted to establish.

In my opinion in this article we have one loony complaining that the loonies over there aren't following the right set of loony rules.

I wouldn't turn my back on any of these self described saintly servants of mankind.


Abitibibob profile image

Abitibibob 4 years ago from Fort Wayne

I agree, it's a very dangerous movement.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Lew,

Buddhism has a left hand, black path as well as the right hand, peaceful path so popular in the U.S. at a superficial level.

This left hand path is called "Black Buddhism". It includes drumming and possession by a kundalini spirit which causes curvature of the spine, rapid shaking, chanting, and other manifestions. There is no difference between what happens at NAR meetings. It is eastern mysticism; it is demonic.


tirelesstraveler profile image

tirelesstraveler 4 years ago from California

Interesting. The only places in the world people don't believe in the supernatural are America and Europe. The more civilized the country the less sensitive they are.

I have a couple of friends who follow Bill Johnson somewhat and have done some healing. Will have to give them a call.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Yes, please share the link. And, be sure to pray any strongholds the enemy might have over their minds- do this first, then call when the Holy Spirit leads. He might do some work for them before you arrive, further convincing them that the Holy Spirit is working on them.


LewSethics profile image

LewSethics 4 years ago

funny thing, man from modesto, I can't find any links to anything vaguely resembling what you are describing.

Maybe you can furnish us with some proof of 'black buddhism' as any else than african buddhism. Otherwise we might think you are full of sh*t.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Lew,

I have heard it said that this drumming, soaking, and manifestations come out of "black Buddhism", a dark version of Buddhism. I did not believe it referred to skin color of participants, but to the "left hand path".

Whatever kind of Buddhism it travels from, it is eastern demonic mysticism, not Christianity.

Please remember that I, like anyone else, is free to "coin a phrase". If I choose, I can invent the term, "black buddhism" and define it to mean the mystical, demonic within buddhism. That is how I used it.

Some conversations must define and agree on terms to continue with understanding.

I have posted a video to remove the vague from your understanding. You will see both Christian mystics (the NAR) and Buddhist kriyas (manifestations of kundalini) in the video.


LewSethics profile image

LewSethics 4 years ago

Oh. Well then we must also consider black christianity as demonic, as well as black muslims, black jews, black atheists etc.

I'm being facetious. I understand your usage, I only questioned the background of your statement. I believe you believe what you believe, and that's ok.

But please understand that for some of us all religious activity seems weird.

By the way, kundalini is defined as:

the vital force lying dormant within one until activated by the practice of yoga, which leads one toward spiritual power and eventual salvation.

Why do you have a problem with that?


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Lew,

The Devil is also the one telling people to commit suicide. I recall the testimony of a young girl who drove her car into a street lamp post. A "voice" told her she would wake up a new, special person, with powers.

I believe the Buddha was basically an apostle of Satan. Everything he taught is a corrupt reflection of what is real. It has enough truth to gain traction.

Marvin Yakos became Buddhist at 17, and left California to Tibet. He studied 12 years there (might have been more... I don't recall exactly). He said he learned "powers". Eventually, he realized there is no nirvana. The leaders simply place one new goal after another, "like candy," Yakos said. Of the 13 who left around the time he did, he was the only one to survive the assassins sent out to protect their secrets.

In California, he went to the Redwoods and prayed to the Jesus his parents introduced him to when he was a boy. Jesus actually appeared to him.

He went to the mountains for a year to hide from the assassins and to get free of his demons. That testimony is amazing in itself.

In that year, the Holy Spirit told him about a coming power of Satan: Islam. In the 1970s, Yakos received this vision, and reported it in a book titled "Jews, Jesus, and Jihad." He warned that Islam would become the fastest growing religion in the world (which it did).

In short: Buddhism, kundalini, all the rest of it, and even YOGA, are demonic.


LewSethics profile image

LewSethics 4 years ago

OK then. Too bad you never looked into Buddhism, it really is a good philosophy. Billions of Buddhists are good people.

Those of us that aren't focused on Satan don't see evil everywhere. Maybe you should lighten up a little.

Also, you said: 'The Devil is also the one telling people to commit suicide.'

But your god kills everybody. There would be no death, according to your beliefs, if your god hadn't made it so. So is the devil doing your god's work?

Your belief that Buddha is an apostle of satan is a personal belief, and very offensive to anyone with a modicum of education. What you say is just spewing hate. So you are the tool of satan.

Just sayin'.


Brenda Durham 4 years ago

Wow. Good expose of those false prophets.

I had heard about Todd Bentley. And his cohort, the woman who hissed like a snake. Just wickedness! And outright blatant manipulation. I don't understand how anyone gets taken in by that stuff. Yet even the subtle wickedness affects people too, if they're not strong. Point--Barack Obama. Have you ever noticed his subtle hissing?

Ah, it's been this way before. Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc. The impressionable and the weak are the prey of the devils. God help all those people, and keep all Believers from being swayed by the Adversary.


Brenda Durham 4 years ago

I'd like to say that my post was to the Man from Modesto, just in case it wasn't clear who I was replying to.

I sure wouldn't want it to be mixed up with any posts from people who jumped on you with their false accusations, Man from Modesto, 'cause you have spoken the Truth here in this hub.

Voted Up and interesting and useful. Stay strong, brother!


Mary McColm 4 years ago

My church is getting very involved with NAR. Our bookstore is filled with their material. Recently we had Wes Campbell speak in our weekend services, and the Holy Spirit placed such a strong check in my spirit regarding this man. I'm not exactly a spiritual giant, and previous to these services I hadn't even heard of NAR. I've since been doing a lot of research online regarding these apostles and prophets, and I'm appalled at what I've found. I've shared this information with my dear husband and he says that we must be careful that we don't "touch God's anointed." Our church is hosting more wolves of NAR in the coming months, and I'm very worried that something evil will be imparted to our pastors and members of our congregation, including us. I told my husband that there's no way I would ever let any of these people lay their hands on me, and if I'm singled out in any way I'll run out of the church. How can I convince my husband of the dangers of these people? Please pray for our protection.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Mary,

My wife also refused to believe. I predicted what would begin to happen... and those things began to happen. People lost their businesses. Divisions broke out. Adultery and pregnancy, firings, and even one member's son (who also attended).

Our own finances also suffered while we went there.

***

To get her to quit going, I convinced her I wanted to attend a closer church. We went to several churches before we found one she liked. Now, we go there.

As soon as she quit going to the NAR church, our finances completely turned around.

So, my solution was: find a new church.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 4 years ago from The Atmosphere

Very interesting hub!

The NAR appear to practice black magic while condemning others for allegedly doing the same.

So, it is very interesting to read the accounts in this article. It confirms my suspicions.

The Mormons, also, have something called the 2nd anointing, which gives their upper echelon the power to curse - supposedly.

Many organizations that front as Christian or benevolent, anyway, are truly evil at the core.

I am concerned that not enough people are taking NAR seriously - they have a lot of their people in powerful positions.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

You are correct. Sarah Palin was involved with the NAR in Alaska. They had a prophecy camp at one of the high schools. Sarah has spoken with Rick Joyner for "several hours" by phone. Joyner is also said to have visited her Wasilla Assembly of God church.

Note: the AoG is susceptible to these false teachings because of a false doctrine they hold and assert: that Christians cannot have a demon. The Jews in Jesus' day were God's people... yet Jesus and the apostle cast devils out of them. AND, real deliverance ministers today cast devils out of people in Christian churches.

You are not the first practicing witch to look at what they are doing and recognize it as witchcraft. In fact, able Christians recognize it as working with demons.


OldWitchcraft profile image

OldWitchcraft 4 years ago from The Atmosphere

Thank you, Man from Modesto, for your thoughtful response and for giving me information with which to do more research on this subject.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Lew,

The reason education is strongly correlated with believing in "tolerance" and "any religion will do" is because Satanists worked dedicated and focused for more than 500 years to make it that way.

They control banks, most of government, and most leadership positions in society. They run the corporations. Those corporations require anyone wanting a high-paying job to attend college for 4 years. In the business text books, they refer to schools as tools of "socialization". The greater the government controls the schools, the safer it is to invest in a nation- according to textbook business thought.

The other thing the Satanists want to do is to lead people away from God. I finished a degree with all ebooks. I took advantage of the search function. I found that every single one of my business texts contained at least one mention of Charles Darwin. This includes International Marketing, Human Resource Management, and even Accounting, among many others.

A few years ago, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia began giving free history books to American school systems in need. Those history books taught that Muslims came on the Mayflower along with other first settlers. They even printed that Muslims signed early contracts with Native Americans. These are lies, of course. You will find no mention of these lies any time before 2007, 2 years before I first saw these claims.

Your statement "But your god kills everybody. There would be no death, according to your beliefs, if your god hadn't made it so. So is the devil doing your god's work?" is very much like a common argument found in circles of atheists and others who campaign against God. The idea is to blame God.

God never put death on man. Adam and Eve had just one rule to obey in Eden: don't eat the fruit of the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil". He warned them that if they did, they would die.

However, when the serpent entered Eden, he misled them. First, he made them doubt God. Second, he told them they would not die. However, they did eventually die.

Once Adam chose to believe the serpent over God, Adam made a spiritual error: he followed the serpent, who is Lucifer. Now, God gave all authority to Adam. Once Adam deferred to Lucifer, Lucifer became his boss, and authority transferred to Lucifer.

It is the devil who "has come to steal, KILL, and destroy."

The problem comes about when people choose to believe the devil, and not God.

For example, God said that to worship anything besides Him is a sin. As soon as someone makes an incense offering to a Buddha statue, or to the "Queen of Heaven", Mary, they are sinning. This opens doors to devils to come in and work their wicked works.


Andy 4 years ago

Hi,

I am 20 years old, from New Zealand but am currently living in Redding, CA attending the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry. Bethel is the church that Bill Johnson is the senior leader (or whatever you like to call him) of. I have the honor of hearing him teach almost every week.

I read your whole article but didn't watch the video's. I just thought I would shed some light on my experience of being in an apostolic environment lead by Bill Johnson.

First of all, Bill is a great man of God and I don't think I have come across someone before who has such a closeness to God and has such amazing revelation. I would put Kris Vallotton in the exact same box. These men are incredible and are bringing up leaders all around the world who are seeing God's Kingdom invading earth everyday.

I didn't know a lot about Bethel before coming here, I had red a couple of Bill's books and attended a couple of his conferences in NZ. Anyway the main reason I came is because the Holy Spirit lead me here. I know God wants me here and I wouldn't be here without Him and His provision. His provision of finances since being here isn't the only way my life has prospered, it's just one of the amazing testimonies of God's faithfulness through this.

I have not had any personal "demonic" experiences since being here. Sure somethings have happen such as getting stuff stolen, but I refuse to give glory to the devil for my God is far greater and I will only glorify Him! I can't begin to express how much better my life has got over the past year and a half being here. All my friends here will share a similar view.

I found some of your statements were wrong too. Right at the start for example you say Bill tells the church that the old testament no longer applies. That is completely false. Sure some things don't apply to us now because we now live on the other side of the cross, but at no stage does Bill say that the Old Testament doesn't apply. In fact you will find that a lot of His teaching comes straight out of the OT. Another thing is, the church in no way believes in palm reading, that is an outrageous claim and it never happens here.

Here's how I see it. Bill and lots of these apostolic leaders get a lot of criticism. Mostly from people who haven't sat under their teaching but just watch the odd youtube video that someone has put together of all their "false teaching". You can take any message and pick parts out of it and sew them back together to make it sound demonic, just like you can take one bible verse from here and there, completely out of context and use it to justify one of your theologies when it is far from the truth.

I think your heart to protect people is great, but you have just gone a little wrong in accusing some great friends of God for misleading people and being caught up in demonic acts. I see that you've had some bad experiences with some of this stuff but maybe you are looking in the wrong places for answers as to why this stuff happens. Thankfully we worship a God who is the ultimate redeemer so I pray for redemption in all these situations that you mention and that devine justice is established.

The other thing i'll quickly mention is that not everyone who comes from this movement is actually accurately representing the heart of the leaders. Unfortunately some people get it wrong from time to time and can put a bad name on people like Bill. I have even seen it happen with students at the school i'm in. That happens in all movements, it's just life.

That's really all I have to say without sitting down with you and talking about it for hours. I just want to ask you how big is your devil. I feel like you are giving him to much credit and making God to small in some of your situations. I believe that anyone, including the most possessed people in the world could lay their hands on me and nothing I would be unaffected because greater is He who is in me than he who is in the world!

Anyway bless you, I'm sorry my comment was so long haha but I just wanted to give you my perspective and tell you how much my relationship with God has prospered under the influence of apostolic leaders. I pray that you will find truth in all this and that God will keep revealing His heart for you, to you.

Andy :)


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

First of all, Andy, I reject your "God bless you". You see, when people reject God and determine to follow men instead, their blessing turn to curse. That is what happened to my friend the contractor, to my grandmother and mother, and perhaps to my grandfather as well.

Second, Bill Johnson is on video saying the OT no longer applies.

Third, I understand that in modern ministries, not every follower has actually adopted the teachings. Even in Jesus' team, the 13th member (when Jesus is counted as #1), Judas, was not living as Jesus taught. Sure, Judas was casting out devils and healing the sick. BUT: he was a thief. If you will review the story of Cain and Abel, you will find that because Cain refused to put God first, sin was waiting at the door. That is how murder entered in.

When the Antichrist comes, he will have all kinds of lying signs and wonders.

Do you know that the Satanists write much of Christian lyrics, that many mainstream Christian singers are witches and that Satanists send their members to infiltrate, break down, and ruin Christian churches, forums, and movements? They absolutely do.

One organization which recruits the best potential leaders in each community is the Freemason Lodge. Above the 30th degree, they are told to "live according to the Luciferian Order". Another group which recruits leaders and also infiltrates and works to misdirect Christian groups is the Knights of Malta.

Rick Joyner is a Knight of Malta. There are images of him in his uniform, at a ceremony, available on the Internet as well.

How many more of these leaders are actually Satanists? I seriously wonder if they know EXACTLY what they are doing.

Have you read my article on Todd Bentley's tattoos? It also leads one to the conclusion that Bentley also understands just exactly what he is doing.


Andy92 4 years ago

haha well first of all to acuse me of worshipping Bill Johnson is Ludicrous.. I have a very intimate relationship with the Father and He is the one and only God that I worship! I simply honour Bill. Secondly, once again you might want to check out the God you know because you are giving the Devil far to much credit when you "reject" my blessings. To be honest I am not afraid of anyone who blesses me because my God is far greater than any curse and the Holy Spirit lives inside of me so any "curse" will brush straight off me... I believe in a God who is good beyond any earthly measure and He protects me and won't expose me to anything I can't handle.

As for the rest of the stuff you say, it's ridiculous! I'm sorry but enough is enough. You are misleading so many people it's dangerous! I would love to see this video of Bill saying the OT no longer applies, because if he believed then it would be common sense for him just to teach out of the new testament. However I can assure that in almost every one of his messages he teaches out of the old testament. Maybe you should listen to his teaching sometime and it might actually change your life! Honestly I am thankful that you have such little influence because what you say is simply outrageous! It does scare me though that people do follow you and even believe your accusations.

I don't have time to read the Todd Bentley article but i gave it a quick look. The first thing I saw was you saying that his "to die is gain" tattoo is some sort of Pagan thing.. Philippians 1:21 "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain." Maybe he was just quoting a bible verse. You can say anything is witchcraft and vodoo if you want. The Fact is, Todd made some dumb decisions and made some mistakes. Thankfully for all of us, we live under grace. Instead of beating the man up for doing wrong and throwing him in some trash pile, people like Bill saw the gold in him and stood beside him because the man has got something special, he is very anointed whether you like it or not. America cries out for revival then it comes to them in the shape of a guy who is covered in tattoos, who can come across as offensive, and they reject it. Sometimes God gives us things to be offended at to test our character and see if we are able to look past these things and focus on what He is doing.

One other thing I saw the other day on your youtube channel when i was looking into you was this comment:

"For your disrespect of God, may all forms of wickedness descend upon your house. You pretend God is invisible to you. But, when you cry out for help, it is going to by YOU who is invisible to Almighty God. He will not hear your cries, nor will He help you.

As for your curse on my children, Let it fall on you instead, and as for me and my house, may we be blessed with healthy, happy children who love my Heavenly Father."

That scares me above all! You are cursing people when you are so trying to protect yourself from being cursed. This comment you made alone is enough for any christian to seriously doubt what you are saying and your heart behind it all. Im sorry but this is just not cool and defeats the whole purpose of Jesus coming and undermines everything Christians stand for. We are to destroy the works of the devil and set the captives free!

Anyway, I am pretty much done here. Hopefully I didn't come across as rude, that's not my heart, I just feel very strongly that you are misleading people and that is not ok. I declare that you will have more power encounters with God and that He will show you His true character and what you were actually created to do. I also pray that you have fathers coming into your life who can guide you and speak wisdom to you. In all reality this needs to stop. My hope in all this is that one day we will stand united worshipping the one true God. We are all brothers belonging to the same family of Christ. None of us have perfect theology but it's our responsibility to try stop each other from stumbling and heading in the wrong direction. Unfortunately I feel strongly that you are mislead and I'm not sure what spirit you are listening too but God is good and I'm sure if you really do seek truth you will find it!

Once again Blessings and have a nice Thanksgiving :)


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 4 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

Andy,

Your post is so non sequitur, aggressive, and unrelated to anything I said, I am allowing it so that people can see the nature of the people who foll BJ.

As for this part:

"For your disrespect of God, may all forms of wickedness descend upon your house. You pretend God is invisible to you. But, when you cry out for help, it is going to by YOU who is invisible to Almighty God. He will not hear your cries, nor will He help you.

As for your curse on my children, Let it fall on you instead, and as for me and my house, may we be blessed with healthy, happy children who love my Heavenly Father."

Those are quotes from the Bible, paraphrased so as to be not immediately recognizable. I often do this in threads. It is a tool to help people understand they don't really know the Bible. I'll let you find them.

In case some demonic mind blocking demon prevents you from understanding, what basically happened is, you just read a quote from God (found in Ezekiel) and something King Solomon said several times, and that scared you "above all". It should. It means you don't know the nature of God.

And, why would you? You're under Bill Johnson, who is anathema to God.


gabgirl12 profile image

gabgirl12 3 years ago

I was part of this for 10 years until I was kicked out. I'm an atheist now. I've only just skimmed this hub but I'm determined to fight back, especially being a woman. This will be more a war with words, but ending in action. The NAR movement denies anyone who enters the right to question and forces them against their will to 'denounce' themselves. This isn't dying to the flesh, this is brainwashing, its hurtful, its scary and I'm glad I'm out of it.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 3 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

gabgirl12: I promise you, these clowns are NOT representitives of Jesus Christ. Along with other demonic spirits, it seems they also have the spirit of religion, a controlling spirit. I experienced that spirit at a Methodist church in Georgia. It is in churches all across America.

However, I promise you, Jesus is real. God is real. Forgive them, and spend some time in recovery. I needed it after I left the UMC. I went to war for my recovery! Soldiers love each other strongly. They depend on each other with their lives. Christians don't understand how they often provide the same for each other, and too often neglect it.

I am sorry for what you went through. Additionally, if you are like others who went there, other aspects of your life have been damaged.

I said a prayer for you. Jesus promised He will never leave nor forsake us. I believe that. This may just be the Father setting you free from that bondage. Now, may you receive your healing. Peace.


gabgirl12 profile image

gabgirl12 3 years ago

That's really nice. I really appreciate your prayers. I've been told to forgive them before, but I can't. What they do is wrong, and I will fight. Someone has to. God isn't doing anything, and since he isn't doing anything, he doesn't exist. I should never have moved here, and I should never have been kicked out. I will do everything I can to end this oppression. And who knows, maybe I'm just the person to do it. I won't give up. I don't want anyone else to go through this. But really, thanks for your encouragement.


fsavidge profile image

fsavidge 2 years ago from London, England

I live in London, England and have never heard before of this cult but I read with interest your exposure of them. They are clearly very dangerous and I hope your Hub will help many to avoid getting involved with them. God bless you.


Man from Modesto profile image

Man from Modesto 2 years ago from Kiev, Ukraine (formerly Modesto, California) Author

At least one of the leaders, Todd Bentley, was refused a visa to the UK. Thank our brothers in the UK for fighting to keep this evil out.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/aug/21/todd-...


Jason Snider 2 years ago

Here is a small testimony of how I came out of an NAR church:

http://e33m.org/?page_id=45


Steve 10 months ago

Is John Bevere associated to the NAR?


M.A. 7 weeks ago

Thank you for this excellent and relevant article. This type of information is SO important. Just one request: Could you please amend the format to enable a "Reader" view, or a "Printer" format? I always try to save the most important web-based info as a pdf document, so that I can refer to it even if/when there are internet problems. Some things should be kept safe :) Thank you very much.

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