Lucifer - Devil, or King, or Morning Star, or Fallen Bible Angel, or Something Else?

Who or what is or was Lucifer?

Who, or what, is, or was, 'Lucifer'?

Christians say that he is 'a fallen angel' and / or 'the devil'.

How do we / they know that?

Is Lucifer mentioned in the Bible? ~

If so, how many times? ~ In what context?

Does it say that he is 'the devil'?

What does 'Lucifer' mean?

Where is he mentioned?

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Apparently, mention is made of 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14!

Let us look more closely at the relevant item:

King James Bible - 1611 (First Edition)

A' faithful photographic reproduction of an original two-dimensional work of art' which is in the public domain  ..copyright expired.
A' faithful photographic reproduction of an original two-dimensional work of art' which is in the public domain ..copyright expired. | Source

King James Bible: Kindle and other formats available from Amazon

Source

Isaiah 14 : 3 - 20 (King James Version)

This is the story, which contains the only mention of 'Lucifer' in the entire Bible:

(I am quoting the King James Bible for copyright reasons ~ and also for another reason which will soon become obvious.)

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"And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve, That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. .........

Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned."

Isaiah 14 - What is it Saying?

The Lord God will save and protect certain people, who have been suffering sorrow, fear and hard bondage.

They will be able use this saying against the King of Babylon: "How the oppressor has been forced to stop oppressing and how his golden city has ceased to be.''

The Lord God has broken the sceptre and staff of this wicked king.

He who made his people suffer is now suffering, himself ~ and no-one is coming to his aid.
His pomp is brought down to death.

People will ask if this is really the man who shook kingdoms, turned his realm into a wilderness, destroyed cities, and incarcerated people.

Most dead kings lie in glorious graves, within their nations, but not this one. He shall not be buried with other kings, because he has ruled so cruelly.

This story is about a harsh king of Babylon, and how he was, or will be, brought down ~ apparently by God ~ so that his people should no longer suffer.

Why is 'Lucifer' brought into this?

That is something of a mystery.

Isaiah 14 - The Important Bits:

If we look more closely, we can see what the story is actually about:

" ..the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage .... That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say:

How hath the oppressor ceased ~ the golden city ceased!

The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. .........

Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, ....

They that see thee shall ... say: Is this the man ... that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

All the kings of the nations ... lie in glory... .But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch ... .Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people ....
"

Lucifer or Morning Star?

The two translations of Isaiah chapter 14, verse 12 are different!!!

The 1611 King James version reads: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! '

The 2010 New International Version reads: How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!

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These translations are very interesting, since Lucifer is generally equated with Satan / the devil ~ but the Morning Star is not!

Furthermore, this is ~ or was ~ the only Biblical reference to Lucifer, anyway, and it was, quite obviously, used to describe a cruel and haughty Babylonian king.

So, the devil is not Lucifer. Lucifer is not Satan.

This is not even Biblical.

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But why is Lucifer mentioned here at all?

It would appear that this king, who had such high opinions of himself, was being likened to Lucifer ~ bringer of light. Why would that be?

Was this king originally called 'Lucifer', in the book of Isaiah?

~ This seems unlikely, since the book was written in Hebrew and the name is a Latin one!

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Note that, in the more modern translation, the sentence in question is translated: 'How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!'

Note, also, that in Canaanite mythology ~ as in the mythologies of most ancient cultures ~ the morning star and the dawn were both considered to be deities. In this case, 'the dawn' was believed to be the parent of 'the morning star'.

The Lucifer Aspect


Let us look, again, at the verses containing the reference to Lucifer. We shall compare the old 'James I' translation (1611) with the modern 'New International' translation (2010):


Isaiah 14 ~ King James Bible:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.



Isaiah 14 ~ New International Version ©2010:

12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon ['Or of the north; Zaphon was the most sacred mountain of the Canaanites'].
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit.'

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Bible verses and notes accessed at www.Biblegateway.com

To find 'Lucifer' in the Bible ...

In order to find 'Lucifer' in the Bible, one needs to obtain an old translation ~ one requires a King James Bible!

'Lucifer' is not to be found in modern translations ~ translations such as the 'New International Version' .

That is one other reason ~ apart from copyright concerns ~ why I had to quote the 'Lucifer' story from the 1611 King James Bible!

Why not have a look for yourselves, and see if you can find 'Lucifer' elsewhere.

Lucifer is the Morning Star - Also known as The Evening Star (Venus)

Lucifer is 'The Morning Star' not 'The Devil'

Lucifer means 'Bearer of Light' - This is not 'Satan', but 'The Morning Star'.

Why is this cruel king being called, or compared to, the 'morning star' (correctly, the planet Venus)?

[See: Brilliant Venus Goddess and Planet ]

Kaufmann Kohler, comments, in the JewishEncyclopedia.com, that there must have been a well-known mythical story, about star deities, that the people would, then, have understood ~ in relation to this tale of the cruel king, who received his just desserts.

Kohler states that: 'It is obvious that the prophet in attributing to the Babylonian king boastful pride, followed by a fall, borrowed the idea from a popular legend connected with the morning star'.

He adds that: 'Gunkel is undoubtedly correct when he holds that it represents a Babylonian or Hebrew star-myth similar to the Greek legend of Phaethon'.

['Schöpfung und Chaos', pp. 132-134] (See separate section: 'Phaeton and Phoebus'.)

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See: www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=612&letter=L#ixzz19S0i5i7x

'The Fall of Phaeton' by Johann Liss

The work of art depicted in this image and the reproduction thereof are in the public domain worldwide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Johann_Liss_006.jpg
The work of art depicted in this image and the reproduction thereof are in the public domain worldwide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Johann_Liss_006.jpg

Phaeton and Phoebus

I quoted Kaufmann Kohler stating: '[Hermann] Gunkel is undoubtedly correct when he holds that it [the Isaiah reference] represents a Babylonian or Hebrew star-myth similar to the Greek legend of Phaethon'. ['Schöpfung und Chaos', pp. 132-134]

'The Story of Phaeton' is found in 'Book the Second' of Ovid's 'Metamorphoses'.

'Metamorphoses'. was translated, in 1713, by John Dryden, Alexander Pope, Joseph Addison, William Congreve and others, under the guiding direction of Sir Samuel Garth.

When Phaeton discovers that he is the son of the sun god, Phoebus (or Helios) he decides to visit him and ask if he might drive his chariot of the sun, to prove to all that he is, indeed, the son of this god.

Phoebus thinks that this is a rash and dangerous idea, and he is against it, but Phaeton begs and promises, and Phoebus relents.

Sadly, young Phaeton cannot control the horses, and the carriage veers out of control ~ either too close to, or too far from, the Earth.

He puts the world in danger and Phoebus knows that he has to be stopped. The god Jove comes to the rescue, but not without Phoebus losing his son:

'Jove call'd to witness ev'ry Pow'r above,
And ev'n the God, whose son the chariot drove,
That what he acts he is compell'd to do,
Or universal ruin must ensue.
.......................................

At once from life and from the chariot driv'n,
Th' ambitious boy fell thunder-struck from Heav'n.'


So here, indeed, we have a demi-god who falls from heaven.

There is also a reference to Lucifer in the poem:

 
Before the boy sets out ....

'The stars were fled, for Lucifer had chased
The stars away, and fled himself at last.'

Why 'Lucifer'?

Isaiah is a Hebrew Biblical book; 'Lucifer' is a Latin word.

Why is the term 'Lucifer' in there at all?

According to Kaufmann Kohler, in the JewishEncyclopedia.com, this is a translation, found in the Septuagint of the Hebrew "Helel" / "Helal" ben Shahar". This meant 'the brilliant one' or 'son of the morning' and was a reference to 'the morning star' ~ also sometimes called 'the day star'.

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What is 'the 'Septuagint'?
Some explanations:

From Wikipedia:
'The Septuagint .... is the Koine Greek version of the Hebrew Bible, translated in stages between the 3rd and 2nd century BCE in Alexandria. It was begun by the 3rd century BCE and completed before 132 BCE.

'It is the oldest of several ancient translations of the Hebrew Bible into Greek, lingua franca of the eastern Mediterranean Basin from the time of Alexander the Great (356-323 BCE).
'

From New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia:
'The Septuagint is the most ancient translation of the Old Testament .....'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13722a.htm


So how did a Latin word find its way into a Hebrew text translated into Koine Greek?

Author, John J. Robinson tried to find out, and this possibility was suggested:

'The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. ..... The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer".'

[A Pilgrim's Path, pp. 47-48]

http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

Saint Jerome

This is a faithful photographic reproduction of an original two-dimensional work of art. The work of art itself is in the public domain for the following reason: .. because its copyright has expired. This is a file from the Wikimedia Commons. http://
This is a faithful photographic reproduction of an original two-dimensional work of art. The work of art itself is in the public domain for the following reason: .. because its copyright has expired. This is a file from the Wikimedia Commons. http://

Latin Translations

Were there also early Latin translations of the Bible ~ or of parts thereof?

Could the term 'Lucifer' have arrived in the King James Bible via such a translation?

Yes, there were early Latin versions of the Bible!

Let us take a look:

The saint, whom we know as 'Jerome' ~ otherwise Hierom, or Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus ~ lived between 347 and 420 AD.
He is best known for translating the Bible ~ resulting in the Latin Bible ~ the 'Vulgate'.

Prior to that, in 382 AD, he started work on amending errors in the 'Vetus Latina'. This is sometimes referred to as the 'Old Latin Bible', but it is not a full translation; rather it is a partial set of manuscripts, already translated into Latin before St Jerome embarked on his Vulgate. These early translations were based on the Septuagint.

Jerome had already translated parts of the Septuagint before he started work on the Vulgate, but for this great opus, he decided to go back to the original Hebrew. Augustine and others advised against this, but he went ahead with it ~ though his knowledge of Hebrew seems not to have been of the highest quality. Scholars believe that he utilised Origen of Alexandria's 'Hexapla' to help him in his work. Jerome worked on the Vulgate from 390 to 405 AD

The Latin term 'Lucifer' could have been found in one of the early Latin translations ~ either of the Hebrew or the Greek. Maybe Saint Jerome, himself, was responsible??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexapla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen_of_Alexandria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetus_Latina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate

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This brief explanation, from the website of the 'United Methodist Women', is useful:

'The first translations of the Bible were of the Hebrew Bible. The Septuagint was a Greek translation written about three centuries before the birth of Christ. Two other early translations, composed after the birth of Christ, were the Peshitta in Syriac and the Vulgate in Latin. These three translations, the Septuagint, Peshitta, and Vulgate became the official translations of the Old Testament for the Greek-, Syriac-, and Latin-speaking churches respectively. Each also became the basis for other translations of the Bible.'
http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/translations.stm

John J. Robinson Quotes

'Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer", and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell.

'Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and, ironically, the Prince of Darkness.'

[John J. Robinson]
http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

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"there are those who do not read beyond the King James Version of the Bible, who say “Lucifer is Satan: so says the Word of God."

[John J. Robinson]
http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

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A meteor during the peak of the 2009 Leonid Meteor Shower - meteor, afterglow, and wake

Author: Navicore This is a file from the Wikimedia Commons. I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following license: w:en:Creative Co
Author: Navicore This is a file from the Wikimedia Commons. I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby publish it under the following license: w:en:Creative Co

Falling Star? Fallen Angel? Defeated King???

To summarise; 'Lucifer' means 'bringer of light' and is used as a name for the bright morning star ~ the planet Venus.

The only place that the term is found in the Bible is in old translations of the Book of Isaiah ~ ie. it is found in the King James Bible of 1611.

There, it is used to describe a cruel, but defeated, king of Babylon.

But why?

Perhaps this king was actually known as 'The Morning Star', because he was so dazzling and important ~ just as Louis IV of France was designated 'The Sun King'. It is a possibility.

Perhaps there was a well-known myth, about a shining star, or planet, which believed itself to be more important than it was (celestial bodies were often personified**) ~ and this boastful king was simply being compared to 'the morning star'?

Perhaps stars and angels were considered to be related somehow, just as stars and gods were seen as the same entities.

Could the story be related to the sighting of a meteor? That is a possibility.

There were, indeed, stories of fallen angels, and Lucifer has long been regarded as one of these.

Is this reference to 'Lucifer' somehow related to stories of fallen stars or fallen angels?

** Personification of celestial bodies:

Even in the Bible, stars were personified:

Job 38 (King James Version):

'1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said .... 4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? ... who laid the cornerstone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?'

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Perhaps falling demi-gods, falling angels, or falling 'Nephilim', somehow relate to personified meteors and comets ~ shooting stars?

Lucifer - Illustration for John Milton’s “Paradise Lost“ by Gustave Doré, 1866.

Illustration for John Miltons Paradise Lost by Gustave Dore, 1866 ~ 'a faithful photographic reproduction of an original two-dimensional work of art' which is in the public domain - out of copyright.
Illustration for John Miltons Paradise Lost by Gustave Dore, 1866 ~ 'a faithful photographic reproduction of an original two-dimensional work of art' which is in the public domain - out of copyright. | Source

'The Fall' - Something Else Worth Considering.

Genesis 3 - 'The Fall'

Could there be a connection???

According to the Book of Genesis, Adam and Eve were created by God and placed in a wonderful garden ~ the Garden of Eden.

God told them that they could eat any fruit from the garden, except that from one certain tree, and that, if they disobeyed, then they would die!

A cunning serpent in the garden convinced Eve that, in spite of what God had said, she and Adam would not die if they ate fruit from the tree in the middle of the garden, but, rather, that their eyes would be opened, so that they would be like gods, knowing good and evil.

So the couple ate some of the fruit ~ and they did begin to understand the difference between good and evil.

Because of their disobedience, God ejected Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden, to a place east of Eden, and told them that, henceforth, life would be difficult, for them and their descendants, in many ways.

Because of the serpent's part in what had happened, he was cursed and would, for ever more, move around upon his belly.

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There are similarities between this story and that of the Babylonian king.

1. A character in the story has been identified as 'the devil', even though the Bible does not say that he is the devil ~ ie. the serpent and Lucifer.

2. The Adam and Eve story is known as the story of 'the fall' ~ ejection from the heavenly garden ~ and the Babylonian king, likened to Lucifer, has, apparently, fallen from ~ or been cast out of ~ heaven.

Are these parallel stories?
~ The fall from Heaven and the fall from Eden?

'The Fall' - Adam and Eve - Michelangelo Buonarroti

Artist: Michelangelo Buonarroti (14751564)  vgl. Vatikanische Museen Online Source/Photographer: www.heiligenlexikon.de/Fotos/Eva2.jpg Transferred .. to Commons by User:Roberta F. This image is in the public domain due to its age ... its copyright h
Artist: Michelangelo Buonarroti (14751564) vgl. Vatikanische Museen Online Source/Photographer: www.heiligenlexikon.de/Fotos/Eva2.jpg Transferred .. to Commons by User:Roberta F. This image is in the public domain due to its age ... its copyright h

Fall, Falling and Talk of the Devil???


It is possible, that certain references to 'falling' have been connected, somehow, to the story of 'the fall' of Adam and Eve, in the Book of Genesis.

It is especially telling that 'the devil' is also ~ supposedly ~ involved.

What About Those Fallen Angels?

Were 'fallen angels' specifically a part of the Judeo-Christian tradition?


Here is a quote from Emil G. Hirsch (JewishEncyclopedia.com):

"The conception of fallen angels — angels who, for wilful, rebellious conduct against God, or through weakness under temptation.thereby forfeiting their angelic dignity, were degraded and condemned to a life of mischief or shame on earth or in a place of punishment — is wide-spread."


'Old Testament' 'Fallen Angels':

There is a reference in 'Jude' to angels who lost their authority ~ the fallen angels???

Jude 1:6 (New International Version, ©2010):

6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling — these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

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Are the "Nephilim" fallen 'angels'?

The 'Nephilim' are a real mystery! They are found in two books of the Bible: Genesis and Numbers. They seem to be special beings ~ the term has been tranlated as 'giant' ~ but could they be some kind of fallen demi-god, or angel???

The word 'Nephilim' is probably related to the Hebrew root 'npl'. This means 'to fall' or 'to cause to fall ~ or even 'to kill' or 'to ruin'.

[Nephilim ~ Wikipedia]

According to the site nwcreation.net: 'The "giants" translation may have come from the Greek old testament where "nephilim" was "gegantes" which looks like "giant" but in modern Greek would be "titans". In Greek mythos, the titans were the supernaturally powerful offspring of gods and humans.'

See link, below: ''Who were the Nephilim?'

http://www.nwcreation.net/nephilim.html

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'Nephilim' could mean 'fallen ones' ~ possibly some kind of fallen demi-gods ~ or maybe, angels???

"Nephilim" ~ The Bible Quotes:

Genesis 6:1-4 (King James Version):

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

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Genesis 6:1-4 (New International Version, ©2010):

1 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days — and also afterward — when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

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Numbers 13:28-35 (King James Version):

30 And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it. 31 But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.

32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.
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Numbers 13 (New International Version, ©2010):

30 Then Caleb silenced the people before Moses and said, “We should go up and take possession of the land, for we can certainly do it.” 31 But the men who had gone up with him said, “We can’t attack those people; they are stronger than we are. 32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, “The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”

New Testament 'Fallen Angels' - Are They 'Shooting Stars'?

In Luke, chapter 10, verse 18, the author claims that Jesus told his followers:
'I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven'. (King James Version)

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Revelation chapter 12, verses 7-10 tell of a battle in Heaven, with the devil and his angels being cast out ~ ie, falling to earth.

7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. (King James Version)

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Matthew 25:41

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels ...' (King James Version)

Lucifer, the Morning Star - and Jesus!

We have seen that 'Lucifer' was mentioned once in the King James Bible ~ and that he was not the devil.

We have seen that in the latest 'New International Version' translation 'Lucifer' is now called 'the Morning Star'.

Are there any more references in the Bible to 'the Morning Star'?

~ Yes, in the 'New International Version there are!

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2 Peter 1 (New International Version, ©2010):

16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and
you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

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Revelation 2 (New International Version, ©2010):
0

18 “To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:

These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. ............

26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations — 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’— just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give that one the morning star. 29 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

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Revelation 22 (New International Version, ©2010):

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. ..... 16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.


From the Devil to the Messiah

In the book of Isaiah, an old translation, which refers to a cruel Babylonian king, likens that harsh ruler to 'Lucifer'. And 'Lucifer' has been equated, by readers of that item, with 'the Devil' ~ a fallen angel.

But 'Lucifer' means 'Bringer of Light' and is often used to refer to Venus, the 'morning star'.

Indeed, in the more modern translations, the word 'Lucifer' has been replaced ~ the term 'morning star' is used instead.

And, in Revelation, we find the term 'morning star' again. This time, it certainly does not refer to the devil ~ it refers to Jesus the Christ:


Isaiah (King James):

'How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!'

Alternatively (NIV):

'How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn!'

Revelation:

"I, Jesus, ... I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Jesus, Light of the World - William Holman Hunt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hunt_Light_of_the_World.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hunt_Light_of_the_World.jpg

Light of the World - Jesus

Jesus is often equated with light:

John 8:
12 Then spake Jesus again .. saying, "I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life".

John 9:
3Jesus answered ... 5 "As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world".

(King James Version)

'Jesus, Light of the World'

This is a beautiful painting by William Holman Hunt (1853).

'The lantern is the light of conscience and the light around the head is the light of salvation ... The bright light over the figure is the morning star, the dawn of the new day ...'

http://www.keble.ox.ac.uk/life/chapel/light.php

Morning Star in Ancient Egyptian Belief

In 'Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection', the author, D. M. Murdock, quotes a number of occasions where the Egyptian gods, Osiris and Horus, are described as the Morning Star.

Two examples are:
~ Coffin Texts: 722 ~ where Osiris is the morning star.
~ Pyramin Texts: (519:1207a) where Horus of the Duat is called the morning star.

The Morning Star and Many Gods and Goddesses


The 'Bright Morning Star' was the planet Venus, also known as the 'evening star'.

It has been related to numerous gods, goddesses, folk heroes, etc:

Jesus
Lucifer
Venus
Horus
Osiris
Ushas
Aphrodite
Astarte
Inanna
Hathor
Isis
Ashtoret
Atargatis
Eos
Aurora
Ostara
Eosphorus
Phosphorus
Hesperus

Conclusion

If 'Lucifer' means 'morning star', and Jesus is reputed to have said "I am ... the bright Morning Star", then 'Lucifer' cannot also refer to 'the devil' ~ surely???!!!

Furthermore, since the 'morning star' was also equated with Horus and Osiris, and with the goddess Venus, among many other traditional gods, goddesses and heroes, then this is not an epithet restricted to Judeo Christian beliefs.

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Comments 45 comments

chenz2 5 years ago

I think when one researches this, and has an open mind, they will see that Satan was never a good angel named Lucifer who then became evil. Jesus and John both said Satan was a murderer and liar from the beginning. "Lucifer" was already in the heavens supposedly, so why would he try to "ascend to the heavens" again? It is so clear that the 2 places in the OT which we think are speaking of Satan are actually speaking of 2 mortal men. It is only with this pre-conceived fable of Lucifer in our minds that we read it into scripture.

What it looks like is that Satan was always bad and God put him in the garden to test us. God knew what would happen, and was the author of it. God isn't the author of evil himself, but he created someone who tempts us to choose between good and evil. But this totally messes with the very FOUNDATION of popular Christian theology, which tells us that as Satan had free will to rebel, so do we. The implications are huge, which is why this would be a hard myth to remove from Christian thought.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Thanks for reading, Chenz2.

The character 'Satan' is worth looking into, as well, I think.


SirDent 5 years ago

You have laid this out very well but you missed some key information. The name or word Lucifer appears only one time in the KJV Bible. Though I cannot explain why a Greek word would be written in the middle of Hebrew text, I can show you what the Word Lucifer really means.

In a recent hub of mine I wrote about the fall of Satan. I used a Hebrew dictionary to define the word Lucifer. I will copy and paste the section where Lucifer is defined below.

***The word Lucifer is a greek word. We will explore it for a time now. The original word was ( H1966 ???? he?yle?l hay-lale' From H1984 (in the sense of brightness ); the morningstar: - lucifer.) This is according to Strong's Hebrew dictionary. If you notice there is a number that this word stems from. (H1984 ??? ha?lal haw-lal' A primitive root; to beclear (originally of sound, but usually of color); to shine ; hence to makeashow ; to boast ; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish ; to rave ; causatively to celebrate ; also to stultify: - (make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool (-ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.) We can see by the definitions that Lucifer is a shining star who boasts foolishly. This is the iniquity that was found in Satan. So the verse of scripture could be read as (How art thou fallen from heaven, foolish boaster, who shines to make a show and raves to weaken nations.)***

If you want to know more you can find my hub on my profile page. I would post the link here but not sure if you would allow that.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Hello Sir Dent :)

Thanks for reading.

Actually, 'Lucifer' is a Latin word, and it means 'light bearer', or similar. This Latin word must have been used to translate either the original Hebrew, or the Greek of the Septuagint. Presumably, the translator was either St Jerome or another Latin translator.

The latest translation that I have found is 'morning star', in the NIV. I believe that this is considered reliable.

Yes, according to what I read, the Hebrew relates to 'shining'. This fits with everything else that I have read on the subject ~ about shiny Venus, the morning star, and the related Dawn deities.

I think that 'to shine' and to make a show' are similar, and that this could lead to the verb 'to boast'.

Obviously, not all of the translations can be used in this sense ~ for example, 'to give in marriage' does not fit.

What, I think, we can derive from this is that 'Lucifer' was the name given to the 'shining morning star' and that, from the story in Isaiah, the king is being likened to the personification of Lucifer / Venus, as a shining boastful entity, who then experiences a 'fall'.

Venus seems to climb up higher into the sky, getting brighter and brighter ~ until it seems to disappear ~ so perhaps it looks boastful, glowing brighter as it reaches towards 'Heaven', before 'falling' into obscurity.

This king seems to have become ever stronger before his fall, too, so the metaphor is understandable ~ especially if there was already a known fable on the subject.

Satan was 'the adversary' ~ and a subject worth further investigation, but the Bible does not say, or imply, that Satan is Lucifer, or that Lucifer is 'the devil'.

'Lucifer' was / is 'the morning star' and Jesus was 'the morning star', so Lucifer / the morning star is not going to be 'the devil'.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

Hi Trish_M ~ I don't know if you've read my hubs linked here in yours called "Is Lucifer the Devil?" and "Lucifer: The spirit of Antichrist", but the Bible says that Satan was a "murderer from the beginning" (John 8:44), so we know he wasn't some shining, boastful angel. Heylel, on the other hand, was. Satan took a third of the angels with him ~ heylel (Lucifer) being one of them. Because the only place his 'name' is mentioned ~ which was never in the Bible to begin with, ~ is in Isaiah 14, we can conclude he is the king of Babylon ~ the king of spiritual Babylon, the king of end-time Babylon (Rev 14:8; 18:2).

The Antichrist and false prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire a thousand years before Satan is (Rev 19:20 - Antichrist and false prophet; Rev 20:20 - Satan). Therefore, heylel and Satan cannot be the same entity. Satan disguises himself as an angel of Light, but he is not an angel. He is called "the Dragon, the Serpent of Old, the Devil and Satan" in scripture (Rev 12:9 and 20:2). Even if one were to call the Serpent a seraph, there was no seraph mentioned in the Garden of Eden account.

When people use Ezekiel 28 to say Satan is a fallen cherub, who was in the garden of Eden, this passage is speaking of the king of Tyre. He and the king of Babylon from Isaiah 14 fight against each other in Ezekiel 29. The Dragon is the ruling force over all the fallen angels, and it is he that gives power and authority to heylel, the end-time Antichrist (Rev 13:2).

This is just a little of what I've deducted from my Bible study, captured in my hubs. I see you have a great, inquiring mind and search out the scriptures for answers. I call that like "panning for God". Blessings to you!


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Hello Judah's Daughter.

Thank you for reading ~ and for your kind words:)

And thank you for the interesting comments. I find the Bible immensely interesting, but,since I am agnostic, this is from a different angle to many who read it :)


SirDent 5 years ago

FOund a site last night which explains that Lucifer is indeed a latin word, but is correct in the context of being Satan. I have only read parts of it but the link is http://www.creationconversations.com/forum/topics/...


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Hello Sir Dent.

Thank you for the link.

Let's look at a couple of quotes:

'The reason this passage is attacked by the modern bible version proponents is because the NASB, RSV, Holman Standard, NIV, St. Joseph New American Bible, Jerusalem Bible, and many others have translated this section in a VERY different way.'

'It should be pointed out that we King James Bible believers do not believe the KJB translators were inspired nor do we believe their own thoughts, their Preface or their own theology was always right. We believe and defend THE TEXT of the King James Bible as having been guided by God Almighty to give us His perfect words of 100% truth.'

Basically, this man claims to be a 'King James Bible believer'. Thus, he does not accept any other Bible, or any other translation. He is dismissing them. That is interesting, because scholars are studying and improving all the time, but he is not willing to accept modern scholarship ~ nor, even, early scholarship, it would seem ~ he only accepts an English 1611 version. That is his choice ~ but it is a very narrow one. Many people ~ many Christians ~ would find this odd or even unacceptable.

He also says this:

The Encyclopedia Britannica says: "The Church Fathers interpreted the words of Jesus in Luke 10:18, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven," as a reference to this passage in Isaiah, so that "Lucifer" came to be regarded as the name of Satan before his fall."

That I can understand. It seems that this is how Christians have come to interpret 'Lucifer' as 'Satan'. It does not mean that this interpretation is correct. I cannot know if this is what was intended, but Jesus does not use any term, here, that relates to 'light bearers' or 'shining ones', etc, does he? Indeed, when he uses a term meaning 'morning star', he is referring to himself.

In ancient belief, the morning star, the evening star, the shining one, all seem to be related to Venus ~ though it is possible that some examples might relate to the moon, sun or stars. How can any of these be compared to a serpent or an adversary? Why would either of these be described as either shining, themselves, or being a bearer of light? That makes no sense.

'Lucifer' has come to be seen as a name, but it just means "light-bringing," from lux (gen. lucis) + ferre "carry" ~ http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=lucifer

Why would the devil be called the bearer of light ~ especially when the Bible says that Jesus is the light of the world?

This article simply tells us that the writer believes that the correct translation is 'Lucifer' and that this Lucifer is the devil. But it is self-evident that this, in itself, makes no logical sense.

However, Lucifer is being compared to an evil king, and Lucifer is described as falling from the heavens, so, as was indicated before, this Lucifer is seen as having qualities that involve being rather full of himself ~ and possibly cruel. I can see how these qualities, along with the Satan falling from heaven quote, could make people equate Lucifer with Satan, but that may be a false conclusion. The description could very easily relate to a personification of the Planet Venus ~ and this sort of thing happened a lot back then.

I should note that I can only discuss this from the viewpoint of language and beliefs, etc, not from any personal angle, as I believe the Bible to be a religio-mytho-history of an ancient people.


chenz2 5 years ago

I personally would not trust anyone whose research shows that the KJV 1611 is THE inerrant word of God anyway. Once you make that claim, you lose all credibility. If the Bible IS true, which I do believe it is, it is the original Greek/Hebrew manuscripts that are inerrant and not our modern translations into latin/english. The translations we do have give us enough information to be "saved" but to call any of them inerrant would be to turn a blind eye to all the fixing of errors that have been done over the past hundreds of years in ALL translations of the Bible. There would be no need to fix something that was inerrant in the first place.

There is a great explanation of what happened here http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html and just skip down to the middle where the heading is "ONE OF THE BIGGEST LIES IN ALL CHRISTENDOM." While I don't agree with all his writings, this one looks to be spot on. The serpent is Satan but Satan was never a fallen angel who was once good. If he was, the original manuscripts do not ever mention that, nor does Jesus.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

If I may, I've spent over a year contending with those who follow L. Ray Smith and bibletruths.com. It is a cult ~ you can decide for yourself, and I think you are intelligent enough, even if you don't believe in God, to figure this out for yourself. Your studies are revealing some absolute truths, yet deceivers are just that...and L. Ray Smith has deceived many.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Hello Chenz. :)

I certainly find it hard to understand why anyone thinks that the 1611 English version of the Bible should be God's chosen translation???

*

Hi Judah's Daughter :)

I think that I may have read about L. Ray Smith, once, but I don't really know anything about him.

Usually, I read about things that interest me ~ for myself ~ and then look at a few other opinions. Finally I decide on my conclusions :)

I find this subject interesting :)


SirDent 5 years ago

One problem I have with the translation of the word Lucifer is that it is translated differently then any other words which are translated morning star.

For instance: Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

One word is used for morning and another word for stars. Their corresponding numbers in Strong's For morning

***H1242

????

bo?qer

bo'-ker

From H1239; properly dawn (as the break of day); generally morning: - (+) day, early, morning, morrow.***

And for Stars ***H3556

?????

ko?ka?b

ko-kawb'

Probably from the same as H3522 (in the sense of rolling) or H3554 (in the sense of blazing); a star (as round or as shining); figuratively a prince: - star ([-gazer]).***

Since Lucifer is actually a Latin word, how did this word get into the Hebrew text? From what I found out, it was translated to Latin first.

The scripture from Isaiah from the Latin vulgate also uses the word Lucifer. ***Isa 14:12 quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes***

I still have a lot of studying to do on this subject and nothing I have written in comments is set in stone even in my own mind. I am simply trying to get to the meat of it all. Interesting discussion so far.


SirDent 5 years ago

LOL, silly me. I only just now realized that the link I gave above is actualy to a forum. This is being discussed there. ***facepalm***


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Yes, 'Lucifer' must have been translated from the Hebrew into Latin ~ possibly by St Jerome, or by other Latin translators.

I don't recall what the Greek translation was ~ that is if I found it al all. Not sure???

The thing is, 'Lucifer' doesn't actually mean 'morning star'. It means 'bearer of light'. The reason that it has been translated as 'morning star' is because some of these terms seem to have been interchangeable.

I quoted the JewishEncyclopedia.com, where it said that the Hebrew "Helel" / "Helal" ben Shahar" meant 'the brilliant one' or 'son of the morning' and was a reference to 'the morning star'. Venus ~ the 'morning star', was also called 'son of the dawn'. (Genders must have been interchangeable, too :) )

So it seems that 'the shining one', 'the morning star', 'the light bringer', etc, could be used interchangeably ~ though I don't suppose that they always were, which is why the moon is an alternative possibility for a 'shining one'.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

In the link Sir Dent gave above, and in other teachings I have heard, Helal ben Shahar also refers to "Day star" and "Crescent Moon". When you put both of these together, you get the symbol of Islam. My hub called "Islam and Revelation" is quite revealing as to how biblical eschatology compares to the Qur'an. Just a bit more to stimulate your mind...


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Hello Judah's Daughter. I hadn't noticed that before! I'll have a read of your hub :)


chenz2 5 years ago

Judah's Daughter.

If you read my post, I had said that I don't agree with everything he writes. You have to be discerning to find the good out of the bad on his site. I wouldn't call him a cult though. A cult changes the way of salvation. I don't see that on any of his writings, unless I missed it. Just because you don't agree with his secondary doctrines does not make him a cult. There are millions of Christians who don't believe the doctrine of eternal torment. Does that make those millions part of a cult too? I've just never heard of someone calling another Christian a cult for not believing the same things they do. Well, the kjv only people might throw those things around towards other believers, but most Christians would not.

Trish, I still think the article is worth a skim. If someone is right, they are right.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

I had a look at it Chenz2 ~ very interesting.

I'd like to look into the 'howl' translation a bit more, because it does not fit with other things that I have read, but, all in all, it agrees that Lucifer is not an alternative name for Satan.

Satan is a Biblical entity that I may look at some time in the future.

I'll clarify my opinion now, though, on Satan, etc.

I do not believe that 'he' exists / existed, so my conclusions are purely academic ~ looking at the Bible as interesting literature / historic documents.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

chenz2, when the way of salvation is through fire after death, I'd call that a cult. The message of the true gospel is there is NO other way to God, no other way to be purified and holy, but by the blood of Jesus and faith in His atonement for our sin. NO OTHER WAY.


chenz2 5 years ago

Trish... yes I hadn't heard that take on it either, but it's just another piece of the puzzle. It may be right, it may not. It does have some good info on it though. Christians like to take verses out of context and try to fit them all together to make a doctrine. For those who never studied it, it's hard to know this... so you kind of just go along with it.

They say "Yeah! Isaiah and Ezekiel are about Satan before he became bad. Then he was tossed out of heaven. How do we know those verses are about Satan? Well Luke says Jesus said "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." They COMPLETELY ignore the context, as if Jesus was talking to his disciples and just randomly had a flashback to the fall of Satan. You are fortunate to be studying the issue from the outside, so you have no stake in it either way.

JD, where does Ray say the gospel is the message that you are saved by fire? I've never read such a foolish thing. He says you must repent of sins and believe in Christ to be saved. And then obey him. Does your church teach a different gospel than Eph. 2:9-11? Because that is the one Ray keeps promoting. If you can point to where he teaches me a different gospel to be saved, I'd be happy to take a look.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Yes, it is certainly an interesting subject! :)


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

chenz2, I fail to see a 'gospel' message in Eph 2:-9-11, but I do in Eph 2:8-9, in that we cannot be saved by our own works. Feel free to email me, should you wish to continue this discussion, as I would not like to detract from Trish's hub. I can give you the link to the profile containing several hubs between L. Ray Smith doctrinal followers and myself ~ might take you a month or more to read everything.

Keep on researching, Trish ~ enjoyed reading and the discussion.


mwatkins profile image

mwatkins 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon & Vancouver BC

This is so very interesting - Not only your hub, but the comments as well! Thank you for touching on a difficult and fascinating topic!


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Hi MWatkins ~ thank you.

It is a fascinating subject :)


Jasper Sapphire Shekinah 5 years ago

Satan/Devil has never been so called holy Angel before. He is by nature just as he is, and so shall he be until his final doom. In God's sovereignty, he created him a waster or destroyer for a purpose; i.e. to build up the body of Christ and how did he do it? by opposition! Believe not a lie that he was once holy and then fell from heaven. Jesus Christ who knows the Father and is in the bosom of the Father has clearly defined who really he is "A murderer from the beginning, speaks a lie from his own native language". The fact that he can transform himself like an angel of light does not mean he is one. he does that by his satanic power, but he himself is neither light nor holy.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Hi :)

There are so many different views in the world :)


Mrs. J. B. profile image

Mrs. J. B. 5 years ago from Southern California

I commend you for taking on such a tough subject. I do not think you want to know my thoughts. I have learned to never talk religion with anyone. It brings out all kinds of outbursts etc..... Who knows maybe man, the catholic church made up the name satan


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Hi :)

Certainly many people think it wise never to discuss religion or politics. I do not blame them at all.

I resolved not to touch religion on here ~ but I just can't help but be drawn to it. It is such a fascinating subject :)


Docmo profile image

Docmo 5 years ago from UK

Wow, and wow again . Trish_M how did I miss your hubs before. This is once again the most detailed, erudite and convincing discussion on the subject of Lucifer I have ever read. I myself worry about the length of my hubs as when I research something I like leaving no stone unturned. I am glad to find a kindred spirit.

The research and your resources are worthy of accolades.

Interesting fact- I recently wrote a hub on bioluminescence and having already known the Lucifer meant 'Light-bringer' in Latin (I love etymology) I was delighted to find the protein that produces light in animals and insects that glow is called ' Luciferin' !

this is awesome at so many levels I need to find new buttons to press! I am gonna share these hubs with all those I know.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Docmo, you are so kind!

Thank you very much. I really enjoy researching the subjects that interest me ~ and, once I start my writing, I have to finish it to my satisfaction. Maybe this makes my hubs a little too long at times :) :)

I am off to read some of your work, now :)


Daniel Fortune 4 years ago

One key that I think is being overlooked is the concept of time in the Bible. I hear and see many people using the fact that Satan was a liar and murderer since the beginning to mean that he has always been bad. It is important to examine the term beginning in the biblical narrative entirely. The book of revelation speaks of a pre earth, pre-time existence of Satan and angels. This would mean that the term beginning refers to the genesis account of creation. So, the term beginning does not mean enternity past, but rather the dawn of time as we know it. The Biblical narrative says that Satan and his angels existed in eternity past, and the term beginning refers to his post eternal past existence.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 4 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Hi Daniel Fortune :)

Thanks for reading and for your thoughts on Satan. :)


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

any way you cut it. Lucifer is not satan. he is probably Isaiah 14:12

Nebuchadnezzar. But it has been a subject theologeons have disagreed on for years.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 3 years ago from The English Midlands Author

Hi Celafoe :)

Yes, Lucifer wasn't Satan, so it is quite strange that the two are considered to be the same.

Thanks for reading and commenting!


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

you can thank the apostate church system for promoting this and other false stories.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 3 years ago from The English Midlands Author

I agree, Celafoe, but people have access to the Bible, now, and yet this myth remains. : (


celafoe profile image

celafoe 3 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

access is one thing -- reading it is another


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 3 years ago from The English Midlands Author

True :)


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 12 months ago

the truth is satan which means resister is the basic name allowed , his real name is unknown , he originally was an angelic son of God , but made himself a resister , he wanted to be worshiped and be a god. this is why there are many deities of different names but they represent him behind the scenes.

really he is an enamy of the true God who is the creator of all life. we would not want to give attention to such a person who is trying to kill us all.

he killed Adam and Eve ,now he wants to kill us.

we are better focusing on the Father who protects us from satan an his evil ways.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 12 months ago from The English Midlands Author

Hi 'Kiss&Tales'. :)

Thanks for your comment.

There are lots of stories and ideas relating to 'Satan' but I don't think that we can seriously say that any of them is 'the truth' :)


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 12 months ago

Thank you for your reply, I can tell you as long as there exist Good and Bad

There is a, god that represents the opposite of the true God.

We see and experience the evils ways of many on planet earth .yes he exist.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 12 months ago from The English Midlands Author

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that, 'Kiss andTales' :)

There is definitely evil on this earth but I do not believe in any devils :)


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 12 months ago

The word devil simply means to resist, there is no two horned fork devil, that was created by man, satan is simply a rebel angel.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 12 months ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

reference Rev 12. This has not yet come to pass.

ref to fallen angels, scripture tells us clearly they are in chains til to judgement. 2 places.


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 12 months ago from The English Midlands Author

Hi both,

I don't believe in fallen angels either :)

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