Misconceptions About Atheism Debunked

George Carlin claimed that praying to Joe Pesci got his prayers answered about the same rate as praying to god.
George Carlin claimed that praying to Joe Pesci got his prayers answered about the same rate as praying to god.

Introduction

Few isms attract more controversy than atheism. Of course that comes with the territory when dissenting from religious belief in a world filled with people who still cling to it. Religion hasn't come very far when it comes to combating atheism. The reason for this is simple, apologists cannot offer answers to the questions posed by those of us who doubt the veracity of religious claims. This leads to misconceptions and half-truths about atheism being used to smear atheists. I'm going to deal with a few of these in this hub.

Please note that atheism has no dogma so my answers may not be the same to those you'd get from another atheist.

Atheism is a Religion

The most common rebuttal to atheism offered by theists is that atheism is just as much a religion as Christianity or Islam is. The idea here, I suppose, is that if atheism is a religion we cannot honestly discuss issues of belief. We must, instead, cling to dogma and blind faith the way religious folks do. Well this is just nonsense. Atheism is not a religion.

In order for atheism to be a religion THEISM must be a religion. I'm gonna sit back and let that sink in for you...

Theism is not a religion, it has no dogma or ideology. Theism is simply a belief in God. Tell a theist this and they will be forced to agree, it is the definition of theism. Theists can be Christian, Hindu, Muslim, and even NON-RELIGIOUS. One doesn't need religion to believe in God. So how can not believing in something be a religion? Christian theists who don't believe in Allah are not in a religion called aislamism, they simply don't believe in Allah. Atheists simply don't have a belief in gods, that's it.

One common tactic amongst people claiming atheism is a religion is to claim that because atheism is an ISM it is a religion. But Communism, Socialism and Conservatism are all isms and they aren't religions they're political ideologies.

Lastly on this subject theists who use this tactic are making it seem that IF atheism WERE a religion that would be a bad thing. But they themselves are likely religious. So how can they bad mouth religion while being part of one?

Do you have faith that Bigfoot isn't there?
Do you have faith that Bigfoot isn't there?

Atheism Requires Faith

This may sound insulting but atheism requires just as much faith as when you stopped believing in Santa Claus as a child. Seriously. When you grow up and realize the boogeyman was never in your closet to begin with it requires no faith to get a peaceful night's sleep.

I realize that comparing God and Santa and the boogeyman may trigger a knee-jerk reaction in any theists who come across this hub but I feel the analogy fits. To me the Christian God is no more real than any fictional character in a story book or myth. In fact for most people God is just a myth their parents told them to believe. It requires no faith to disbelieve in fairies, mermaids, Zeus, aliens or bigfoot and thus no faith to disbelieve in gods.

Also, if a theist is making this claim than they are once again making something they possess seem bad. Is Faith a bad thing to religious theists? No, it's necessary for maintaining their beliefs, so what are they complaining about?

Atheism means ABSOLUTE Disbelief

Fundamentalists are most likely the perpetrators of this misconception. The idea that atheists leave absolutely no room for the possibility of god's existing. While it differs from atheist to atheist the majority of atheists are equal parts agnostic. This means that while I may currently view your deity as fictional I am also open to the idea it exists if you can provide evidence. I cannot pretend to have absolute knowledge that a given god does or does not exist.

There are atheists who profess absolute disbelief, but they are hard to find. I've spoken to dozens of people in my life who profess absolute belief and indeed absolute KNOWLEDGE of God but never spoken to any who profess absolute disbelief or KNOWLEDGE that there is NO GOD.

Some middle-of-the-road Agnostics refuse to adopt the atheist label because they to don't know that most atheists are also agnostic. It doesn't bother me that they want to retain the middle ground but when they stoop to claiming intellectual superiority over atheists by way of this misconception about absolute disbelief it really does get on my nerves.

Another point worth making is that every god claim is different. I make no claim about GODS on the whole. There might be gods out there and I have little reason to debate deistic god claims. But if you come to me with Yahweh, Zeus, Jesus, or Allah chances are I will be more strong in my rejection of them. Why? Because I've researched and learned about those gods and understand the logical and factual holes in the idea that they exist.

The Definition of Atheism and Theism -

Just so there can be no confusion -

Theism - Belief in god(s).

Atheism - No belief in god(s).

Belief is a Nuanced Thing...

Atheist = Evolutionist

This is a category error I've run into a handful of times in my journeys on the interweb. Some theists, usually Creationists, have seen fit to confuse the term atheist with the term evolutionist. I'm still not sure why they use the term Evolutionist to begin with. It seems to me that inventing a derogatory term for someone who accepts well documented scientific fact is exceedingly stupid. It's like making fun of someone who accepts that the Earth really does go around the sun, perhaps terming us Helioists. Or Neanderthals insulting their tribesman for believing in the theory of fire.

Not all atheists accept evolution. This may seem far out but, as I document regularly in my Into the Weird hub-series the world is FULL of varied and NUANCED beliefs. Some atheists are actually part of the ancient astronaut crowd, they think that aliens came down and helped life on Earth develop.

Not all who accept evolution are atheists. This goes without saying, there are plenty of people who have adapted their theistic or religious beliefs to include the theory of Evolution. Instead of a literal six day creation some believe Genesis is more metaphor and allegory and that evolution is how God created.

Atheists are angry at God

How can you be angry at something or someone that you don't believe is real?

If I'm angry it's because I see intelligent people forgoing critical thinking and sound logic in order to believe a fairy-tale. It is also especially aggravating when fundamentalists defend the atrocities of the Biblical God when such a character, by almost any moral standard, would be considered indescribably evil. In other words I'm angry that characters which, as far as we can tell, are fictional are being believed in by otherwise intelligent people. I'm angry that religion is damaging the minds and in some cases the physical well-being of people on this planet.

Let me put this in terms a nerd such as myself can truly appreciate. If someone out there believed in Darth Vader and believed that Darth Vader was holy and righteous because some space-tome said so. Let's say that despite the book depicting Vader committing genocide of innocent children they still defended Vader's actions and claimed he was not only a good guy but was wholly devoid of sin and evil. That's the sort of absurdity that would piss me, as a Star Wars fan, off and its the exact sort of nonsense I hear from fundamentalists all the time (only about their deity of course).

Angry at stupid beliefs and the people that espouse them, sure. Angry at a fictional God, no.

Atheists are Satanists

This one makes no sense to me. While it is true that there is a branch of Satanism that PERMITS atheists that branch is the one that doesn't believe Satan actually exists. As for the actual Satanists - atheists don't do that, mainly because we don't believe in Satan. You see a devil depends on a god to exist, without God the devil just becomes another character in a mythology. Believing in Satan while disbelieving in God is like believing in titans while disbelieving in the gods of Olympus.

At any rate there is some conflation within Christianity of Satan, Lucifer and the Devil, who are all SEPARATE characters if you read the Bible. Satanism sometimes perpetuates this equivocation.

Of course when believers say this it is likely a defense mechanism. Rather than accept the idea that someone could actually reject their claims some zealous believers will just lump anyone who disagrees in with the competition. I'm sure theists who happen to be of other faiths also get accused of this too and hell some fundamentalists might go so far as to turn on members of their own religion.

All Atheists are Nihilists

The assertion that all atheists are nihilists typically comes in the form of "Oh you're an atheist, that means you believe in NOTHING." or endless assertions about how love, morality and life itself have no meaning without God. Poppycock.

First off we have a false presupposition that WITH God life has meaning. Sorry but your life has very little meaning if it lasts forever and its only purpose is to be bow and worship. And it's not just you who is living forever, it's everyone. Whether you're a sinner in the ever-lasting fires of Hell or a saint walking through the pearly gates your life ceases to have meaning once it becomes eternal.

Some will say that Paradise is itself the meaning of life. Making it into Heaven is the meaning of life? What are you planning on doing for eternity? Worshiping God? Walking down the same golden paved street every single night for ten billion years, than doing it again for the rest of ETERNITY? Just plain being HAPPY forever. Sorry but that doesn't sound very meaningful.

To me the value of life comes from its brevity. When we hug a loved one, tell a joke with our friends or celebrate a Holiday the meaning in those events comes from the fact that we may never get a chance to do it again because life is finite.

An eternal life in a perfect paradise immediately cheapens everything you do here in your actual life on Earth. Watching a sunset with your significant other is meaningless if it doesn't help you store up treasure in Heaven. Speaking of which saving up money here on Earth is against Jesus's teachings. You're supposed to give away all you own and follow Christ.

As I said above the true meaning of life is in it's brevity and ability to change on a dime. The fact that you can actually change the world, change people's lives, change your own life and that ALL counts for something in the here and now. Maybe it isn't eternal, but in the present and for the foreseeable future your actions can have serious consequences - actual meaning! Bowing down to Allah or Jesus forever on the other hand won't change a damn thing.


Turn your Atheist Bible's to the Book of Sagan
Turn your Atheist Bible's to the Book of Sagan

Atheists Worship Science

No. Just no. Why would I, or anyone for that matter, worship the scientific method? Does science work? Yes. Is it responsible for a lot of knowledge we wouldn't otherwise have, such as medical knowledge that extends our lifespan? Yes. Is it atheistic in nature? No. There are scientists who believe in God. While science itself focuses on evidence and repeatability as opposed to superstition that doesn't mean it's inherently atheistic and it also doesn't mean I get down on my knees and do animal sacrifices on a Bunsen burner whilst praying to Carl Sagan.

The other form of this argument is claiming that atheists have "FAITH" in science. This isn't the same as FAITH in the existence of God. For one thing we know science exists, it's a methodology that we invented. We also know from centuries of past experience that science works reliably. When something is reliable and well-known we can trust it. If you want to call that trust FAITH that's fine but don't pretend it's the same faith that causes people to believe in God.

Atheists Worship Humanity or Themselves

Some might but then there are self-absorbed people in ANY group. But the most insulting part of this idea is that it sometimes comes from theists who believe the entire Universe was created just for our species. So let me get this straight, we were specially created and LOVED by an ALL POWERFUL deity beyond our comprehension but atheists, who believe we're just a product of natural processes, are the ones worshiping humanity... Give me a break please.

Do I like humans and value human life? Yes. Do I worship humans and think they're sacred or the best thing to ever happen to the Universe? Not in the slightest. I guess to some the idea that there's a group of people who doesn't worship SOMETHING is frightening. I see no reason to worship ANY being, let alone my own reflection or the giants upon whose shoulders we stand.

To me the Universe isn't top down, it's bottom up, that means no one is in charge and so no one has to be worshiped.

Conlusion

There are probably more but this hub has already gone on far longer than my hubs usually do. Hopefully this has cleared up some of the false claims about atheists. If you have any other misconceptions about atheists, or if you're religious and you'd like to argue on any of the points I've made, feel free to leave your comments below. Thanks for reading everyone!

Is an After Life meaningful?

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    An analysis of the Ten Commandments as laid out in the Bible and a discussion on the fundamentalist Christian belief that these commandments apply to them and are morally good.


Comments 84 comments

olram 5 years ago

good point you have there. i salute thee!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe

Well written and accurate. I hope the religionist actually read and understand this hub. Doubtful, but maybe.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 5 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Thanks olram, thanks Austinstar.

I do hope the religious actually find this one and understand it. The sooner we all set the strawmen aside the sooner the real conversation can continue.


emichael profile image

emichael 5 years ago from New Orleans

I think a lot of Christians make the argument that atheism is a religion without really thinking through what that actually means. You are right, by definition, atheism is no religion, and it's a bit sensationalist to claim otherwise.

"Is Faith a bad thing to religious theists? No, it's necessary for maintaining their beliefs, so what are they complaining about?"

I think the reason so many Christians are adamant about this idea is because one of the cornerstones of the atheist argument is that they submit only to reason and logic whereas the Christian submits to irrational claims of faith. So Christians hope, it would seem, to show that the beliefs (or lack there of) of the atheist, require a bit of "irrationality" on their part, as well. Again, this is not my belief, but I think it may explain why this argument exists. Of course, there is a category mistake inherent in this argument which you correctly point out.

When Christians claim that atheism requires faith, what some of them probably mean to say is that belief in evolution requires faith. The latter being a more valid argument than the former. The reason being whereas you argue for evolution as a proven fact, Christians believe it to be just as impossible to prove scientifically as creation. But it is unfair to play the faith card on atheists blaketly.

"While science itself focuses on evidence and repeatability as opposed to superstition that doesn't mean it's inherently atheistic and it also doesn't mean I get down on my knees and do animal sacrifices on a Bunsen burner whilst praying to Carl Sagan."

Hah...nice.

Obviously we still differ in the fundamentals of our beliefs, but I appreciate your main point here. Christians should be careful of sensationalist claims like these and work at being a little better informed.


AntonOfTheNorth profile image

AntonOfTheNorth 5 years ago from The Land Up Over

Clear, rational positions well presented, Titen.

(you know I won't just leave it at that, though) :)

Anytime we deal with someone through their label, (Atheist, Christian, Democrat, Canadian, Religious), we are missing an opportunity.

"Religion hasn't come very far when it comes to combating atheism."

It has come just as far combating atheism as it has combating other religions, which is to say, not at all. The moment one position holds itself over another and seeks to keep the other from existing, combat ensues.

Your goal, as I interpret it in hubs is to see religion eliminated. This is fundamentally the same position held by those who would like to see atheism vanish. Both see the other as a blight on society that should be removed. (I'm over simplifying myself, but well. . .)

This is primarily an emotional response.

The only way to have any meaningful discussion is to stop calling each other idiots.

"The reason for this is simple, apologists cannot offer answers to the questions posed by those of us who doubt the veracity of religious claims."

The reason is not that simple. They are offering answers, but they are refuted by the notion that the veracity of their claim can only be demonstrated rationally. This is true to a rationalist but is not true to someone who trusts their emotion more than their thought processes. While I agree with you about the veracity of the bible, I rejected it on emotional grounds long before I looked for the rational argument to support my emotions. Not everyone trusts their intellect, just like I don't trust my ability to run marathons or grow crops.

It does not further any cause to seek the elimination of another point of view. We have to feel to accept, not just think.

No one makes a bad choice on purpose. Everyone makes the choice they believe in.

It is emotional. Your expression of your choice not to believe is clearly emotional. I haven't seen too many atheists post here that did not come to their belief for emotional reasons.

You can't expect the non rationalist to discount their emotions when yours are also apparent in your position. (That's the crux of the 'atheism is faith too!' position of theists)

But always glad to read your hubs and comments. I have gained a great deal in doing so.

cheers


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 5 years ago from back in the lab again Author

"Obviously we still differ in the fundamentals of our beliefs, but I appreciate your main point here. Christians should be careful of sensationalist claims like these and work at being a little better informed."

Thanks emichael. The sooner atheists and theists understand each other's positions correctly the quicker the discussion will move forward, at least that's my hope.


mrpopo profile image

mrpopo 5 years ago from Canada

Good hub. A misconception that really bothers me is that atheists/agnostics are "immoral", or that you can't have morality without belief in a god.

The semantics between atheism and agnosticism aren't really an issue. I think most atheists are agnostics and most agnostics are atheists, as in the overlap you demonstrated. They're just labels. Sure, there are a few atheists that claim to know with absolute certainty that no gods exist, but that kind of attitude is similar to an absolute certainty that god(s) does exist.

Discovery of knowledge is rarely about certainty anyway.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 5 years ago from back in the lab again Author

@Anton

"Your goal, as I interpret it in hubs is to see religion eliminated."

I wouldn't use the word eliminated, more phased out. It's something I would like to see happen organically, stemming from constant discussion and debate that slowly but surely convinces people that there's no reason to believe. Of course I imagine we'll always have religious belief of some kind and in no way do I think that without religion humanity would be in paradise (we'd still find plenty of fight about). It's not really my goal though, just a far distant possible outcome of the entire world engaging in this discussion.

"The only way to have any meaningful discussion is to stop calling each other idiots."

Indeed and I try not to be insulting to theists, although I do sometimes do artwork that makes fun of the beliefs themselves. It's the beliefs that are at issue here not the people who hold them, most of them were just taught to hold those beliefs as children anyway.

"It does not further any cause to seek the elimination of another point of view."

There are some points of view that I would deem unacceptable however, such as religious practices involving genital mutilation or those who chose to withhold medical care from their children in favor of faith healing. The right to have your own point of view extends only until you start harming someone else because of your beliefs. Like I said though I wouldn't want these points of view "eliminated". In fact I wouldn't mind a future in which only the positive aspects of religion, the sense of community and attention to charity, were present with only a vague notion of some benevolent god or force.

"But always glad to read your hubs and comments."

Thanks for the comment Anton, always a pleasure :)


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 5 years ago from back in the lab again Author

@mrpopo

The morality thing is a big one but since I sort of covered it in my last hub I left it out of this one. That one just seems so obviously wrong because everyone has a moral sense, other than perhaps psychopaths, a natural intuitive empathy regardless of beliefs.


AntonOfTheNorth profile image

AntonOfTheNorth 5 years ago from The Land Up Over

@Titen

". . . more phased out. . ."

Of course, us theists are aiming for when the debate slowly but surely convinces people that there's no reason NOT to believe. But I'm with you.

"The right to have your own point of view extends only until you start harming someone else because of your beliefs."

There, sir, is the next amendment to both of our constitutions.

cheers


pay2cEM profile image

pay2cEM 5 years ago from Nashville

Nice job. With regards to atheism being a religion....I'm reminded of the quote, "Atheism is a religion in the same sense that not stamp collecting is a hobby."


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 5 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Thanks pay2cEM. There's a lot of those little idioms floating around, I've always liked the one, "Atheism is a religion in the way that health is a disease".


Dan 5 years ago

I know not all atheists are nihilists, but nihilism is the logical outcome of atheism; most atheists just don't have the guts to follow their thinking through to its conclusion. For example:

"The true meaning of life comes from it's brevity. The fact that you can actually change the world, change people's lives, change your own life and that ALL counts for something in the here and now. Maybe it isn't eternal, but in the present and for the foreseeable future your actions can have serious consequences - actual meaning."

Our actions *can* affect ourselves and our world...in the short term. But it makes no difference in the end. We all die. The earth burns up as the sun expands. The universe dies a cold death. There is no objective meaning. You can make up a meaning that makes you feel good about yourself if you want. But it's only meaningful in your head. Whatever you choose to value and whatever you do in your brief life make no objective difference.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 5 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Your life can affect the world in objectively verifiable ways however even if the ultimate destiny of the Universe is to burn out. It is true that in the end life has no objective eternal meaning.

I don't think that atheism necessarily leads one to nihilism, for one thing that excludes all the versions of atheism that include an afterlife (Buddhists with reincarnation for example) or some for of Universal justice like karma. Some atheists do still cling to those sorts of beliefs.


JacksBlogs 5 years ago

Having looked at most of the comments here I don't want to say any more because I will be "singing to the choir". But, hey guys, just remember "Faith is acceptance of the absurd." and "Religion poisons everything." After you and I got to that point we are shocked at the ignorance around us. I want to just grab people and shake them and say, "What are you thinking? Give up this dangerous obsession with first (or seventh) century mythology and apply your talents and money in a more useful way." But if I turned into a proselytizer for atheism I would acquire one of the worst aspects of religions. Good luck everyone - and read what I say over on my HUBs if interested. I am talking about trafficking now and will switch to religion shortly. I am having so much fun! JACK


joecseko profile image

joecseko 5 years ago from New York, USA, Earth

All I can say (as it's all time permits at the moment) is AWESOME!


rorshak sobchak 5 years ago

I just took a religious studies class in college and this was an interesting write up! This was something that wasn't talked about much in my class that I wanted to learn more about. Good job and thank you!

rorshak sobchak


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 5 years ago from The English Midlands

Hi :)

As you may guess, I agree with most, if not all, of this!

I wouldn't want to eliminate religion ~ just the attitude that agnostics and atheists are inherently 'wrong', immoral and set for hell.

Definitely I agree that "The right to have your own point of view extends only until you start harming someone else because of your beliefs."


Soldieringon profile image

Soldieringon 5 years ago from Hemet, CA

I've read over this hub a couple times now, and I just keep coming back to it. As an Atheist myself, I have even referred others to it.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 5 years ago from back in the lab again Author

@Soldieringon

Thanks

Knowing that people are still reading this kinda makes me want to go back and do a proof-read. Glad you found it useful =D


jainismus profile image

jainismus 4 years ago from Pune, India

This is a great Hub, useful for Atheist in answering questions asked by believers. Voted up and shared.


joecseko profile image

joecseko 4 years ago from New York, USA, Earth

Dude, I came back and read this again. This is a masterful work, to say the least. Being 'mostly atheist' (I'm an epistemologist) I think you nailed some very important points.

This piece far outshines my writing on atheism.

Oh, and to the dude above me in the comments- atheist is not a proper noun such as Christian or Jew are-- it's not capitalized. Making it a proper noun almost detracts from it's true meaning.


Matt Rudy profile image

Matt Rudy 4 years ago from Frisco, TX

This was a great read. I run into people daily that believe in these misconceptions, so it's nice to see a hub with some like minded people who actually do their homework.


artblack01 profile image

artblack01 4 years ago from New Mexico

This hub is great, it expresses much of what I try and express in forums in regards to discussion. I try not to get frustrated with believers who instantly antagonize and generalize me and I try not to do the same to them.

As for having not met many atheists who are sure of the nonexistence of God 100%, I am one of those people, nice to meet you.


Lybrah 3 years ago

Check out my hub on hell. God exists whether you believe in Him or not. You can bet that Galileo, Carl Sagan, and George Carlin (three men mentioned in your article) are all now in hell because they rejected God.


artblack01 profile image

artblack01 3 years ago from New Mexico

Sorry we don't believe in your evil fantasy belief of God or hell, just saying that the people who you mentioned, especially Galileo, who was a believer and all he is guilty of is discovering the truth that the Earth moves around the sun, and the others who were good men who hurt no one, makes you evil, if your God existed he wouldn't be worth worshipping.


joecseko profile image

joecseko 3 years ago from New York, USA, Earth

Lybrah, it's not your place to tell any of us whether God exists or not. To suggest that you have proof of such in a puny weblog screams of utter ignorance!

While not completely atheist, but an epistemologist, I cannot stand when a mortal suggests he/she has proof of the existence of an omnipotent being.

Now, if you're going to bring up the Bible- yeah, the world is flat, and man was created in God's image 10,000 years ago. The Bible is absolutely LITTERED with things that we know today are completely preposterous!

To raise the point of Galileo makes your observations even more ridiculous!

Yeah, Noah, a 600 year old drunk built a boat big enough to fit one of every animal on Earth in it? Weird, no one elses boat floated? None of those animals ate the other animals?

So, since those people told the scientific truth, God banished them to Hell? Wow, this God of yours is one vindictive son of a bitch. If heaven is full of high and mighty ignoramuses such as you I'll gladly burn in a pit of fire with thew smart people!!!!


Lybrah 3 years ago

As a Christian, it is my place to tell others of Jesus.

The animals were probably put in cages. And no one else built a boat because no one else knew that God was going to send the flood! He destroyed the world at that time because they were wicked people. And yeah, I guess He is vindictive--He is God, who is loving AND just. I have faith in my religion, and I'd rather be up in heaven with the "stupid," "ignorant" people than burn in a pit of fire, removed from God's presence.

And another thing, although I do not agree with you or the hub author, I totally respect your viewpoint. It would be nice if you bestowed unto me the same courtesy. I don't appreciate being called ignorant because I have a different view.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Where exactly is the Justice in killing EVERYONE, man woman AND CHILD? And what of the animals? Most of the animals in the flood would also have drowned horribly.

Genocide can NEVER be justice, period.

To believe that such a thing is justice IS IGNORANT in the extreme, it shows a complete lack of understanding of what the word justice means. It doesn't make you ignorant in an overall sense, but yes, it is ignorant to believe such a thing.


Lybrah 3 years ago

If you think drowning the world is bad, wait until the tribulation starts and you have to deal with those locust-creature things! God's wrath will be upon you!


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Yes, threats of God's wrath. About as effective on me as threats about Santa Claus and Darth Vader. You know Darth Vader has a death star, you think the tribulation is bad just wait until the planet is obliterated. Lo, there will be a great tremor in the force upon that day.


artblack01 profile image

artblack01 3 years ago from New Mexico

Did you know that if you are stranded in the dessert a plague of locusts is a welcome event. I hear they can be pretty tasty when you are starving and dying of thirst.


Dannytaylor02 profile image

Dannytaylor02 3 years ago from United Kingdom, Liverpool

atheism is a belief just like believing in god is a belief, not all people who believe in god are religious.

Atheism does kinda require faith because by calling yourself an atheist you are saying you do not believe in a god even though you are not 100% sure that there isn't a god so you are putting faith in there being no god


Lybrah 3 years ago

But you shouldn't knock it--just in case. I mean, what if I am right? If your 100% not sure there isn't a god, why bash the religion...I mean, you're going have to answer to some kind of deity one day, do you really want to have explain calling Him a baby-killer, or evil?


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

But you cannot be sure there aren't a multitude of gods in existence. If you choose the wrong one you may be in more danger of damnation than those not choosing at all. In this case you are not only placing yourself at risk but others you are preaching to and trying to convince them to think like you. Do you feel yourself so much superior in judgement than others to take responsibility for their souls too? If so, why do you think so? What great things have you accomplished in your life to indicate superiority over other human beings in the choices they make?

SSSSS


Lybrah 3 years ago

All I'm saying, is have respect for the religion, whether you believe in it or not. I do not think myself superior to anyone. When did this get so personal? And let Titen Sxull speak for himself. He's the one I want to talk to anyway!


artblack01 profile image

artblack01 3 years ago from New Mexico

Danny, how does being an atheist require faith? and atheism isn't a belief it's a lack of belief in a God. We don't put faith in there not being a God. Do you believe in the Loc Nes Monster? Does not believing in an loc nes monster mean you have faith that there is no loc nes monster?

Atheism means that we don't believe in God because we have no reason to believe that such a God exists. You want to provide sufficient evidence for us to believe in a God we would.

Lybrah, In the case of the Christian God, it's a fact that he's a baby killer, The Bible says so, I don't have to call him one. And no we don't have to answer to any one when we die. If you can prove that such a deity exists then we might change our minds but so far we have no reason to believe such claims. People make all sorts of claims but if you just go around blindly believing all of them on faith you would be the ultimate fool. And you can't disagree with that.

And why should we have respect for a religion that doesn't respect people of differing beliefs?


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Atheism is DISBELIEF, as in not believing something. It's like if you say there are Elves and I say I don't believe you, that doesn't require faith.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

But then why "knock" the other religions. I mean what if Zeus is real and you're pissing him off by worshiping Jesus? You'd have to follow EVERY SINGLE RELIGION to make sure you weren't pissing anyone off, plus there are THOUSANDS of versions of Christianity.

" you're going have to answer to some kind of deity one day"

What makes you think there's a deity at all? Or an afterlife for that matter? All the scientific evidence suggests that being dead means being DEAD. The tiny sliver of a chance that your God is real doesn't make me want to worship it, such a tyrannical monster would be well worth defying. Why would you bow before a God who burns people for eternity? Unless you're just afraid of it.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

I have respect for most people, but I don't have to respect anyone's religion. I will respect people's RIGHT to FREEDOM of religion, but if the beliefs themselves are silly I will point out why.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

@ Lybrah--"When did this get so personal?" When you chose to label Titen-Sxull a "hater." Please don't tell me you cannot recognize this as being the case.

SSSSS


Trish_M profile image

Trish_M 3 years ago from The English Midlands

Hi :)

Isn't it sad that a supposedly loving religion, referring to a supposedly loving 'God', should cause such harm and hatred.

If anyone wants to read more on baby-slaughter and other Biblical atrocities, then they can have a look at some of my hubs :)


Deepes Mind 3 years ago

As a Christian, I feel that this is a very well written, thought out, and concise explanation of atheism. The thing is that not all Christians think the same thing of atheists. I personally keep atheist friends around to compare and share ideas and one thing I've learned is that atheists live the life that a lot of Christians should be living and should be striving to live. I personally strive to live the best life I can possibly live and help others, but it isn't out of a fear of God or eternal torment (Which hell doesn't exist). I studied the original versions of the bible and draw my understanding from there as a guide on living. Christians were not meant to have the rigid, slave-driven fear and devotion that a lot do, because we were given the power to do for ourselves.. Great, very informative hub.


joecseko profile image

joecseko 3 years ago from New York, USA, Earth

It's very refreshing to me to see such well thought or comments from Christians here. I don't hate, nor even dislike anyone because their faith (or lack thereof) may differ from mine. When a person practices such in their own life that's prejudice. I don't believe in prejudice at all. I don't believe in preaching to someone what I believe, if they believe differently.

A good Christian (and for those that didn't see earlier comments, I'm an epistemologist) will teach people about Jesus by teaching, not preaching.

I've recently become friendly with someone in my gym. He's a devout Christian, and knows my lack of belief. He never preaches to me, and we have very good conversations on the subject. What I have found, unfortunately, is a type of silent disdain for atheists by some Christians.

Deepes Mind, I particularly enjoyed your addition to the conversation, though I feel this hub has attracted intelligent input by many. My hat's off to to author, too, as I feel he writes very well on subjects that most avoid.


Deepes Mind 3 years ago

Thank you. I try not to force my beliefs on anyone. I am passionate about my beliefs and, like anyone else with a belief (or lack of belief) I do not like to be attacked for my beliefs. It is easy to pull scriptures to use as ammunition to reinforce belief or lack of belief because there are a LOT of scriptures that were written that can encourage or discourage belief. But I try to remember that Most of the versions of the bible that are used and taught from today are versions that were rewritten by people to achieve a specific goal (mostly fear tactics to force conversion and slavery). I hold no hatred for anyone and I have not met an evil atheist yet. Most atheists that I have encountered are no more evil than most Christians I've encountered are good. There are good and bad in every religion as well as good and bad atheists.


Dannytaylor02 profile image

Dannytaylor02 3 years ago from United Kingdom, Liverpool

artblack you believe there is no god so that is a belief, you are not 100% sure so it can't be described as anything but believing it to be true.

it's very insulting to call god a baby killer so if you could just back that up please with that overused word "evidence?"


artblack01 profile image

artblack01 3 years ago from New Mexico

Yes, I do BELIEVE that there is no God, though that is not atheism that is anti-theism, which is different from atheism. Atheism is a lack of belief in a God. I am not really here to push my anti-theism on anyone but that does sort of leak out. What I do as an atheist is to challenge the belief that there is a God. If you have evidence that there is a God it should be shared and if it is evidence for such a being then I would change my view. However, and I have a hub explaining it further. My anti-theism comes from the fact the such a being is unnecessary to the existence of anything. As far as God being a baby killer, I am merely referring to the God of the bible, who, as the bible clearly states has destroyed humanity several times in order to "start over" and how many babies were killed at this time? Are you well versed in the Bible? If you are then you should be able to find the verse and I need not say more, however, if you don't know the Bible then I could post the verse and the explanations for my view.

However, since I neither believe that God is real nor the Bible is a total historical record of actual events the question of evidence is completely moot and it's merely a question of what the Bible states that the God of the Bible has done for me to conclude that the God of the Bible is a baby killer.... or really just an immoral bastard in general.


Dannytaylor02 profile image

Dannytaylor02 3 years ago from United Kingdom, Liverpool

The way atheists use the word evidence means that it has no meaning whatsoever and you need a better punch line, god has destroyed the whole world only once and that's because the world was "filled with violence"

babies follow their parents footsteps meaning that they would become violent too.

You weren't alive during that point of history and i don't think that you would want your wife and daughter to be raped in front of you on a daily basis and for that to be accepted as the "norm" or i don't think you would like your children burned in a sacrificial fire to appease god either so maybe if you where there at the time you could think a little differently, everyone had ample warning but chose to ignore it so its their own fault.

Again with this word "evidence" i think the problem is more that you won't accept creation as the evidence, laws of the universe didn't just prop up on their own, the dna structure didn't just make itself, life didn't just come out of a puddle...why is the complexity of life not evidence? You wouldn't think that a computer managed to create itself spontaniously so why is it any different for the above mentioned when they are infinitely more complex?


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

"babies follow their parents footsteps meaning that they would become violent too."

1) This is a fallacy assuming that all children grow up to behave like their parents. Problem is that this is quite obviously false. My Father was a heavy drinker for much of my childhood yet I don't drink. There are people who's parents are hardened criminals who themselves do not commit crimes.

2) This is a claim that suggests that God's ONLY OPTION to prevent these children from becoming evil themselves involved MURDERING them. This is counter-intuitive and just plain stupid. We're dealing with a limitless God supposedly full of mercy and willing to help people come to repentance, yet in the story repentance is never mentioned. God managed to fit one of every species on the entire planet on the Ark but couldn't have someone build a boat for all the babies?

"You weren't alive during that point of history and i don't think that you would want your wife and daughter to be raped in front of you on a daily basis and for that to be accepted as the "norm" "

1) No one was alive at that point of history because a global flood never happened.

2) No where in the Bible does it give specific examples of the wickedness that brought the Flood on, so your example is pulled out of your ass at best.

"i don't think you would like your children burned in a sacrificial fire to appease god"

Funny you should bring that up, might want to read the Biblical story of Jephthah and his daughter, as it turns out Yahweh DOES accept human sacrifices, if he didn't than Isaac and Jesus would've been meaningless. Though to be sure he seems to prefer the blood of animals to be sprinkled around rather than humans.

"laws of the universe didn't just prop up on their own"

A natural or universal law, such as a law of physics, is merely a description of how things are observed to work. For example Newton's law of Universal Gravitation, objects with masses are attracted to each other, we observe this to be so and we can even measure it. This isn't some spooky supernatural law written down by a cosmic legislature, it's simply how things are observed to work.

"the dna structure didn't just make itself"

I see, so the logical answer is that something even more complex and powerful helped create DNA. Okay, but then where did that something come from? Where did God come from? If such a being existed it would be more complicated and intricate than DNA to be sure, and you're answer is what, that this super-complex all-powerful being simply ALWAYS EXISTED? DNA making itself though, that's just silly.

"everyone had ample warning but chose to ignore it so its their own fault."

You should probably READ the Biblical story of Noah before you talk about it. Noah was the only one warned and he was instructed not to bring anyone else along other than his wife, his sons and their wives. At no point in the story is everyone on the planet given "ample warning".

"why is the complexity of life not evidence?"

Because NATURAL complexity does not imply a SUPERNATURAL answer.

"You wouldn't think that a computer managed to create itself spontaniously so why is it any different for the above mentioned when they are infinitely more complex?"

I don't think life or DNA are INFINITELY more complex than a computer. I wouldn't assume a computer could make itself because I know that computers are manufactured, I've seen it being done, I can trace my computer back to where it was made. We've done the same thing to life, we've traced it back as far as we can. What we've seen is that life is complex natural chemistry, organisms replicate and reproduce themselves and the first proto-organism was likely a self-replicating protein of some sort. You were made by your parents, and they were made by theirs and so on and at no point is it necessary to invoke a MAGICAL answer.


Dannytaylor02 profile image

Dannytaylor02 3 years ago from United Kingdom, Liverpool

OK, Firstly

"No where in the Bible does it give specific examples of the wickedness that brought the Flood on, so your example is pulled out of your ass at best."

The first major sin commited was cain murdering abel, YAHWEH saw this coming and warned cain Genesis 4:3-10 that is an example of wickedness no?

Genesis 6:5-6 Telling us the inclinations of man's heart was bad all of the time then genesis 6:13 "the end of all flesh has come before me because the earth is full of violence as a result of them (Mankind)" the earth was made for us but that doesn't mean we can ruin it the way we did during that time period, Those are the reasons he destroyed everything in it you say it's harsh but in those days everybody believed in a god and everybody knew that what they where doing was wrong in his eyes...there was no question of morality.

"Funny you should bring that up, might want to read the Biblical story of Jephthah and his daughter, as it turns out Yahweh DOES accept human sacrifices, if he didn't than Isaac and Jesus would've been meaningless. Though to be sure he seems to prefer the blood of animals to be sprinkled around rather than humans."

Isaac wasn't Sacrificed YAHWEH (Jehovah) didn't make him go through with it but he did do it as a pre-figurance of what he was going to do for human-kind with his own son,

Jephtaph's daughters sacrifice was being a virgin, not being burned so again you fall short there.

Jesus is the only example of a human sacrifice, he was the son of god and he chose to come down from heaven onto earth in his physical form.

He did it so that we could be forgiven (before this point god is still PISSED)

Collosians 1:13,14

You can't do the wrong thing and expect the blessings from god at the same time it just doesn't work like that and like it or lump it our life is in his hands.

"A natural or universal law, such as a law of physics, is merely a description of how things are observed to work. For example Newton's law of Universal Gravitation, objects with masses are attracted to each other, we observe this to be so and we can even measure it. This isn't some spooky supernatural law written down by a cosmic legislature, it's simply how things are observed to work."

I'm aware but you are pretending to miss the point slightly, those laws are perfectly balanced for life and if they where any different life would not be able to exist...the only "scientific" argument for this is the multiverse theory which will tell you that there are billions of universes which have imperfect laws, in other words they are running out of options.

"You should probably READ the Biblical story of Noah before you talk about it. Noah was the only one warned and he was instructed not to bring anyone else along other than his wife, his sons and their wives. At no point in the story is everyone on the planet given "ample warning"."

Matthew 24:37,39 tells us that they were told but they "took no note" they didn't listen, 2peter 2:5 describes noah as a "preacher of righteousness."


Dannytaylor02 profile image

Dannytaylor02 3 years ago from United Kingdom, Liverpool

"No one was alive at that point of history because a global flood never happened."

Anthropologists have collected as many as 270 flood legends from nearly all tribes and nations. “The flood story is found throughout the world,” says scholar Claus Westermann. “Like the creation narrative, it is part of our basic cultural heritage. It is truly astonishing: everywhere on earth we find stories of a great primeval flood.” The explanation? Says expositor Enrico Galbiati: “The insistent presence of a flood tradition in different and widely separated peoples is a sign of the historical reality of the fact that lies at the base of such traditions.” More important to Christians than scholarly observations, however, is the knowledge that Jesus himself spoke of the Flood as an actual event in the history of mankind.—Luke 17:26, 27.

There has definitely been a catastrophic event on earth, Considering what our ancestors are telling us shouldn't we listen to their eyewitness accounts of what it was?


Lybrah 3 years ago

I absolutely believe that the flood happened. You cannot prove that it did not. Also, let's assume that God knew what was in each person's heart, including the babies. Since He's God, He would know who was going to turn out whatever way, and let's assume most of those babies were going to be evil anyway. God would know that!

God is the alpha and the omega; He has always existed--we're in time and God is outside of time. That is why it is hard for you to understand that God does not have a maker.


artblack01 profile image

artblack01 3 years ago from New Mexico

"Anthropologists have collected as many as 270 flood legends from nearly all tribes and nations." Two things, floods occur all over the world, therefore it is not impossible for flood legends to occur all over the world, same with volcanoes, earthquakes, etc, so it would not be impossible to have similar sounding stories from from different people all over the world, most tribes often also think they were the first humans and all other human came after. The Second problem is many of the stories of the great floods came from missionaries and these anthropologists are getting these stories from the people who encountered Christian missionaries... also your "270 flood legends from nearly all tribes and nations." is a lie.

"There has definitely been a catastrophic event on earth" Considering there has always been catastrophic events all over the Earth ALL the time, I hate to tell you that if you consider what happened to Japan with that large Tsunami then you can imagine that Flood Legends can easily happen and not happen at the same time period.

Also Archaeologists have REPEATEDLY debunked a worldwide flood, and if you understand the size of the world and the amount of life on it you might also realize that a great flood that destroyed all life and a Noah's Ark story and the amount of water it would take to actually flood the entirety of the Earth and so on is completely impossible and anyone believing such a story is a complete idiot NOT to be taken seriously.


Lybrah 3 years ago

Keep in mind that nothing is impossible without God. If He wants a worldwide flood, it will happen regardless of anything.


Dannytaylor02 profile image

Dannytaylor02 3 years ago from United Kingdom, Liverpool

artblack that simply is not good enough just to say its a lie without anything to back it up, i provided references all you are doing is saying its a lie which it is not

prove its a lie otherwise accept it.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

I get a kick out of the absolute ignorance displayed by some believers.. It's no wonder they can buy into the stupidest of claims made by the old novel they worship and believe in. No wonder they have caused so much terror and have retarded science and education so much in the world's past history.

Thank goodness their number is shrinking daily as it certainly should.

SSSSS


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Cain and Abel has nothing to do with the story of the Flood.

"Isaac wasn't Sacrificed YAHWEH (Jehovah) didn't make him go through with it"

Whether the sacrifice was finished or not is irrelevant, Yahweh commanded a human sacrifice to be performed. He tested Abraham's obedience to him by telling the man to ritualistically kill his son and Abraham was going to go through with it.

"Jephtaph's daughters sacrifice was being a virgin, not being burned so again you fall short there."

That's not what the text says. Not only does Jephthah's dramatic reaction to her emerging from the house first not make sense if the context is one of "her sacrifice being virginity" but the story states that Jephthah promised a burnt offering. The Bible even says that Jephthah "did to her as he had vowed", doesn't sound like he backed out of it to me.

"those laws are perfectly balanced for life and if they where any different life would not be able to exist..."

Are they? The vast majority of space is an empty vacuum and the only life we know of exists on Earth, a tiny infinitesimally small dot in a great cosmic ocean. And even here on Earth much of the environment is unsuitable for life to thrive and organisms must be highly specialized to live where they do. As I said these are descriptions of how things happen to be, to assume they can only have become that way via the supernatural or that the purpose of the Universe has something to do with the existence of life, is a fairly big assumption.

"Matthew 24:37,39 tells us that they were told but they "took no note" they didn't listen, 2peter 2:5 describes noah as a "preacher of righteousness."

So we're getting our version of Noah from the Gospels now? God's plan with the Flood was to wipe clean all wickedness, that would have been awfully hard if all of the wicked people had been warned of the impending disaster. In Genesis Noah was never sent out to preach by God and was instructed specifically to bring only his wife, his sons and their wives.

"Anthropologists have collected as many as 270 flood legends from nearly all tribes and nations"

Yes, a very interesting phenomenon, and I'm guessing there are at least just as many different CREATION accounts, if not more, all of which vary. Some creation accounts, like some flood accounts, have a great deal of similarity while others are very very different. However geologically speaking there never was a great Flood, it's been disproved. One very simple explanation for flood myths is that early civilizations had to live very near to water sources to survive, and those water sources inevitably flooded. We don't get our scientific understanding of the world by seeing which cultures invented which kinds of myths and then assuming they are true when we find paralleled.

"There has definitely been a catastrophic event on earth"

No shit, catastrophic events happen all the time.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

I can't disprove the Flood because I'm not a scientist but even a child can see the gaping holes in such a story. One man manages to fit ALL The MILLIONS of species on the ark (and please don't try to feed me any Kent Hovind "KIND" BS on this one) including penguins, giraffes, all types of birds, etc. Including predatory animals which ONLY EAT OTHER ANIMALS. Never mind how marsupials like Kangaroos managed to hop across the OCEAN.

Also if the Flood did happen it makes God into possibly the worst monster imaginable, especially if Hell is real on top of it.

"Since He's God, He would know who was going to turn out whatever way,"

So then you DON'T believe in free will, you believe in predestination. In that case God should strike down any child before sperm even meets egg. After all he already knows who's going to be naughty of nice, no reason even waiting for Christmas morning.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Nothing is impossible? Than why is mass genocide the thing he decides to do? If NOTHING is impossible shouldn't he find a way to forgive the wicked people he's angry with? No, probably not, best to drown them right?

Keep in mind that NOTHING is impossible for your God, it'll make him seem like even more evil when reading your Bible.


Dannytaylor02 profile image

Dannytaylor02 3 years ago from United Kingdom, Liverpool

your arguments are lame at best and if it wasn't late i'd go into more detail but your problem is that your interpreting the bible for you own version, clearly jephtaph was not burned as a sacrifice god would certainly not allow it and it doesnt say that she was.

"whether he goes through with it or not is irrelevant" that's the biggest pile of horse manure ive ever heard of course it does!

Yes the laws of the universe are perfect for life that's a fact mate, life hasn't existed anywhere else in the universe because it still needs to be created which god has not done.

You say MILLIONS of species but back then there wouldn't have been as much adaptation as there is today, it would have been one species of dog, elephant etc...also there wouldn't have been that massive oceon before the flood so marsupials could have got in.

maybe tomorrow i'll give you a more in-depth answer but only if you can give me something interesting to reply to!


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

I for one, would love for you to go into detail, Danny. Your interpretation of the Bible "for you own version" as you put it, would be highly entertaining and possibly quite humorous I'd wager. Let me guess---Baptist? :p

SSSSS


Lybrah 3 years ago

God gave the wicked people a chance to repent. He's patient and slow to anger, giving people hundreds of years to change. Sometimes I don't get which bible you're reading--are we talking about the same bible here? Because God is loving and merciful, and Jesus did many great things while he was here. Reread the New Testament. You quote a lot from the old one, but I rarely see references to the new one.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

"clearly jephtaph was not burned as a sacrifice god would certainly not allow it and it doesn't say that she was."

I'm just reading what the text says. You can read the verses for yourself, it's in Judges chapter 11. He promises that if God allows him to be victorious in battle that he will offer the first thing to come out of his door when he returns as a burnt offering. His daughter greets him and he is very upset that it's her but the story clearly states that he did to her as he had promised to God (burnt offering).

"Yes the laws of the universe are perfect for life that's a fact mate"

No it isn't a fact. The fine tuning argument doesn't make any sense. All over the world we see organisms that have adapted to their specific environment. If you went out into space without a space suit you'd see just how fine-tuned the laws of the Universe are for life.

"there wouldn't have been as much adaptation as there is today"

According to most creationists the Biblical flood happened about 4400 years ago, so yeah, there would be just as many species as there are now. Evolution as it is observed today happens slowly, there isn't more adaptation than there was "back then".

"would have been one species of dog, elephant etc"

Right, and one species of bird too? Because what you're positing is that evolution, which I'm guessing you don't believe in, happened at a super-charged rate immediately after the flood to give us all the millions of species we see today in just 4400 years of time. And then suddenly, as soon as human beings start paying attention and doing this thing called science, evolution slows down to a crawl leaving us none the wiser. And you actually said MY arguments are lame.

"also there wouldn't have been that massive oceon before the flood so marsupials could have got in."

4400 years ago the oceans were in relatively the same state they are now. So the ocean still would have been there. Without an ocean being present on Earth where do you think the water came from?


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

"God gave the wicked people a chance to repent."

In some cases in the Bible this is true, in other cases there is no mention of people being given time to repent. In any case God doesn't descend from the sky to tell people to repent in any of the stories, instead he sends a messenger, a prophet. This prophet goes to the people to convey God's word, but if you were living back then in one of these supposedly 'wicked' cities chances are you'd serve whatever God you were raised to believe in.

So let's say you were born in Jericho (just as an example) and taught as a child to worship the god Baal. Baal, you've been taught, is the one true god and you bow down to him everyday. You have NO idea that bowing to Baal is a bad thing, you have no idea that out there there is another God who get's angry when you worship Baal. Along comes a prophet telling the people to turn away from Baal and turn to Yahweh, a God you've never heard of. When you ask him about this Yahweh the customs and laws the prophet tells you about are strange, foreign, and perhaps even blasphemous. You decide to stick to worshiping Baal.

One month later the walls of Jericho fall and you are put to the sword by an invading army for being "wicked" and worshiping the wrong God.

There is no amount of fair warning that can justify murdering people, and no amount of wickedness should or ever could make a good God commit an evil deed.


Lybrah 3 years ago

Yes, the point is that God sent a prophet to warn the people that they were worshipping false idols. Once you are exposed to the truth, you are responsible for it. Therefore, if I were living in Jericho and ignored the warnings of the said prophet, it would be my destiny to suffer God's wrath. In other words, I would deserve it. Baal is a demon and all those who worshipped him back in the day needed to be saved--which of course, is why Jesus and the prophets were sent. If you think about it, God is truly merciful for not having destroyed us sooner. God created us. Therefore, we belong to God. Thus, we are His to do as He wishes. And people were ALWAYS warned ahead of time to repent.

You are being warned right now...if you think about it, God has sent people into your life to help you see the error of your ways. For example, your father may be one such person. You can even go so far as to say I was put here at this computer to tell you and your followers that what you believe is wrong. There is still time to repent!


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

"Yes, the point is that God sent a prophet to warn the people that they were worshipping false idols"

Right, that's MY POINT, from the point of view of that hypothetical citizen of Jericho life was normal. That citizen has no idea that worshiping Baal is wrong until he is told about Yahweh, but even then he is given no reason to believe that Yahweh exists and Baal does not and FURTHERMORE may be afraid that BAAL will PUNISH HIM. Do you not understand how to put yourself into the shoes of another human being?

Let's make it a modern example. Let's say you are a Christian who believes in Jesus, but someone comes and tells you to convert to Islam and that Mohammad was the one with God's true message. You decided to continue worshiping Jesus and ignore Allah and Mohammad's teachings altogether. When you die you end up in Hell because it turns out that Islam was the correct choice. And according to everything you've just said YOU WOULD DESERVE IT.

"If you think about it, God is truly merciful for not having destroyed us sooner. "

No. Now I'm beginning to think that you have no basic concept of right and wrong.

"There is still time to repent!"

There is still time to repent Lybrah, Hercules and Zeus still love you, don't be lost to the Underworld forever. Hades domain is no place for a mortal soul to remain for all eternity.

Yes, I'm aware of your constant threats and warnings about Hell, I've been giving you warnings too about various other hellish afterlife's. Yet you seem unresponsive. You don't seem to mind the fact that you are going to Muslim Hell, the Greek Underworld, and probably will be reincarnated in a lower lifeform if you don't start working to reach enlightenment.

I'm guessing you're unresponsive to these warnings because you don't believe in Allah, Zeus or reincarnation, and maybe that will make you realize that I don't believe in YOUR RELIGION'S VERSION of HELL. You're warning me about an imaginary place, it's about as effective as telling me the boogeyman in the closet will get me for not eating my vegetables, meaning it would be effective only if I were a child or an easily deceived ignoramus.


Deepes Mind 3 years ago

***DISCLAIMER*** Not all of the views presented here are reflective of the views of all Christians


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

@Deepes Mind--Of course we realize this, despite the self-proclaimed prophet Lybrah (coincidentally using a fake name lol!) warning us of our impending doom if we don't think as she does. :0

She is laboring under the delusion she somehow has been given the right to judge others as being wicked while she is good. The very worst sort of believers always make this mistake. The very best do not. :)

SSSSS

SSSSS


Deepes Mind 3 years ago

@Randy-- Just making sure I'm not lumped in with some of the others.


artblack01 profile image

artblack01 3 years ago from New Mexico

And the god delusion continues....

Deepes Mind, you seem like a fairly rational person so feel comfortable in that. However, I suggest, question your beliefs and your assertions often.


artblack01 profile image

artblack01 3 years ago from New Mexico

Dannytaylor, it's funny that you claim 270 flood legends you don't site where you get this information from or where these flood legends originate. Then when I call you out as a liar you ask me to prove you wrong. Where am I suppose to go to find such flood legends and show you that they are lies? If they are lies they don't exist and that is proof enough.

Just like God.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

LOL! Danny doesn't back up his bold statements usually in my experience with him, Art. He prefers to merely say things without any weight behind his claims and expects others to do his research for him. lol!

SSSSS


Deepes Mind 3 years ago

Art, I question everything. In that questioning, I've done a lot of reading of the original versions of the bible as well as using a dictionary so I can try to gain some type of understanding of some things in context as according to different definitions. Because I try my best to emphasize that my conclusions are simply my own conclusions and that I don't hold them up as indisputable fact, I catch it from both atheists and Organized Christians. People would classify me more as agnostic in that I don't know for sure, but I lean toward Christianity because I personally read and studied each religion and Christianity appeals most to me because of certain principles stated therein. I don't embrace it out of fear of torment (because Hell isn't mentioned in the Greek or Hebrew Bibles) The King James (and other versions) Bibles were written and translated with added concepts used to enslave others and instill conversion by fear. I don't live by fear. I live by the ideals that Christ tried to teach (tolerance, helping others etc). Are these morals presented in other books? Yes, but I also prefer to be optimistic enough to think there is something better out there after we die. I look at it as a win/win.. If I'm correct and there is a Heaven, then I can be content that I lived a good enough life to get in.. If there is nothing else, I still live a life of fulfillment. Funny thing is that even atheists have the chance of getting in despite their lack of belief. It's dependent on what's in their hearts and God is the final judge. That's why I don't even mention any kind of Hell or make that assertion


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Interesting concept, Deepes MInd. But how can you so surely dismiss other possible gods you may be slighting ? This definitely affects your win/win scenario if not dismisses it altogether. Many Christians make the same mistake in claiming they have nothing to lose but ignore the countless other gods which many people had full faith in as you do yours. There is no way to play the odds if you don't know what they are to begin with. But feel free to show me wrong if you like or can. I appreciate the way you conduct yourself compared to the run-of-the-mill believers we normally get here. :)

--RG


Deepes Mind 3 years ago

I do not dismiss the other possible Gods nor the people that worship them. I hope everyone finds what they are looking for as according to their beliefs (or lack thereof). Right, wrong, or indifferent, I still choose to live the life that works best for me and sustains me the most. I have tried some of the others.. didn't work for me. We all have to live lives that work best for us and I wish the best for all people


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Well then, I suppose there goes your win/win scenario if you aren't sure about the other gods. Rolling the dice for one's soul doesn't appeal to me. Good luck on your roll, though. The odds are at least 1000 to 1 you are correct in your choice. Not exactly promising. :)

SSSSS


Deepes Mind 3 years ago

Either way, I'm still living a full and happy life. That I'm okay with. Life is a gamble sometimes.


artblack01 profile image

artblack01 3 years ago from New Mexico

All religions start out as scams and when enough people believe the scam enough to spread it around it becomes legitimate. Religions can come out of nowhere from some guy just looking to get his way, so he makes up some story says it's true... there are people who believe anything and then there are people who only believe when enough other people believe and it spreads.... Look at the Mormon religion, Joseph Smith was a convicted scam artist and he eventually invented the Mormon religion, Scientology was invented by a scifi writer, turned self help writer... Do you think that this is a new phenomenon? It's been going on since man had a need to convince others to follow them.


Andy McGuire profile image

Andy McGuire 3 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

Nice work. I lean more toward agnosticism myself. If you ask me whether or nor God exists, I simply shrug and then go get ice cream or something, because I do not want to get into a theological debate.

I support this and future hubs written by you. Won't you check mine out as well?


JessBraz profile image

JessBraz 3 years ago from Canada

This was very well written. I applaud your writing skills, as well as your courage to take on such a touchy subject.

I myself an am atheist. I quite like the way you explained atheism in the section about adsolute disabelief... I don't agree with organized religion and I don't believe in God... However, I am not all knowing and willing to concede that there is of course a possibility of a greater being, I just choose not to live my life dedicated to a being that I can't be 100% actually exists.

Everyone has their right to religion and God. Everyone has the right to believe in whatever they believe in. Whatever gets you through the day or brings comfort to your life is great. But we as atheists also have that same right not to believe.

Very well done my friend.


ThePelton profile image

ThePelton 3 years ago from Martinsburg, WV USA

Botulism also has "ism" in it, and it's food poisoning.


artblack01 profile image

artblack01 3 years ago from New Mexico

Interesting comparison, Pelton. I'll remember that one next time I sacrifice someone to a God.


Titen-Sxull profile image

Titen-Sxull 3 years ago from back in the lab again Author

Thanks JessBraz.

I think the subject of belief and disbelief are far more nuanced than people realize. Many people seem to think it's just a fifty fifty of either you believe or you don't, but really there's a lot of different levels to it on top of that. I think that's why some atheists have tried to come up with other more specified terms to use instead of the term atheist, because atheism answers such a narrow question.

If someone believes and thinks they need that belief to sustain them emotionally on some level that's fine, I was at that place for a time myself. Hopefully though they will come to the same conclusion I did, that believing just to feel good is not a good reason to believe.


joecseko profile image

joecseko 3 years ago from New York, USA, Earth

Good point, Triten-Sxull. Belief in one's self is FAR more important than believing in the intangible. Too many people have no feeling of self-worth. Therefore, they cling to these ideas that something far better is waiting for them.

I do touch on these ideas in one of my hubs- Faith Healing. It was inspired by my own journey through nearly dying, being paralyzed, along with some other very serious injuries, then how my faith in ME kept me going long enough to make a full recovery...well, except for the amputations :(

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