Paul vs. Jesus's Teachings: Is There a Conflict?

If you know anything about Christianity, you know that it is based on the teachings of Jesus.  You will also know that many of His followers contributed to what is now known as the Christian Bible.  One of the most prominent writers of the New Testament was the Apostle Paul.  He wrote the majority of the New Testament and was one of the most revered early church fathers.  But as with many great religious writings, many of them have come under scrutiny.  It has been proposed and even argued that Paul’s teachings are in direct contradiction to those of Jesus.  Was the great Apostle Paul actually corrupting the words of the Great Teacher?  Let’s dig a little deeper into this thought.

Paul's Background

Before diving right into the topic, we need to understand where Paul came from. Paul is not a Jewish name. It was actually the Greek name for the Jewish Pharisee named Saul. A Pharisee was one of the religious ruling classes. Saul was a rising star that first appears in the Bible in the book of Acts where he witnesses and even gives his approval for the stoning of the very first Christian martyr, Stephen. He began a quest to seek out all the people who were claiming that Jesus of Nazareth was the long sought after Jewish Messiah. His mission was to have them imprisoned and killed to stamp out the heresy that was spreading through the Jewish faith. It was on a journey to Damascus that Saul’s life changed dramatically. It was on this road in Acts 9 that Saul was knocked to the ground and heard a voice from heaven speaking directly to him. The voice asked him why Saul was on his persecution journey. “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” the voice asked him. After a period of blindness in which he was healed, Saul realized that his zealousness was in the wrong direction. The Messiah had come and he was killing the ones who had accepted Him. Saul did an abrupt turn in his life and became one of the most vocal and bold preachers of Jesus’ teachings. After a period of learning and studying, he went before the apostles and was recognized as a convert. His influence increased and spread throughout the Roman Empire.

Over the years questions began to be raised on the teachings of Paul. Were they in contrast to Jesus’? Were they complimentary and supportive? His influence was vast so this question is not one to be taken lightly. If one accepts Jesus as their Christ, then they accept His teachings. Any teachings that are not in line with these words are considered heresy and generally banned. So, where does Paul stand?

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Was the Law Abolished?

Another point that has been made that Paul’s teachings differ from Jesus’ is that many read that Paul says that the law was abolished which directly contradicts Jesus’ words. In Romans 6:14 Paul says, “For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.” Much of Paul’s writings are similar to this. Does this contradict Jesus’ words in Matthew 5:17 that says, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”? Let us look deeper into this.

Several times in Jesus’ ministry He was accused of breaking the law. In Matthew 12 it says, “At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this they said to him, ‘Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.’” Jesus declared Himself the Lord of the Sabbath. In Mark 12 starting in verse 28 the religious leaders approach Jesus asking Him which of the laws or commandments was the greatest. He gives them two: “Love the Lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength” and “Love your neighbor as yourself.” He ends it with “There is no commandment greater than these.” The entire law which was immense was summed up in just two statements. The rest of the law was nothing in comparison to these.

In Luke 11 beginning in verse 37 Jesus turns onto the religious leaders who were experts in the law. They noticed that Jesus did not wash His hands before the meal as was laid out in the law. Jesus replies, “Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also?” The Pharisees were so fixated on the letter of the law. The law was not wrong, but the leaders had forgotten what the purpose of the law was. I once heard a Jewish speaker state that the law was given so that every act of the Jewish person would be instructed by God. Before doing even the most basic daily activity, the law abiding Jew would consider the Word of God and therefore God would be the focal point of their most mundane actions. The Pharisees were making more of it. Jesus was pointing out that their hearts were full of greed and hypocrisy. They were so concerned about how they looked on the outside and that the law was followed that they ignored the heart and soul which was what the law was created for. The original intent was forgotten.

In John 8 one of the most popular acts of Jesus was in direct contrast to the law. The religious leaders brought before a woman caught in adultery. According to the law she was to be stoned. Jesus turned the tables on the leaders and asked if any of them were so pure that they could stand in judgment and take the life God gave this woman. In the end, Jesus forgave the woman and sent her on her way to a new life.

From these acts, did Jesus really abolish the law? The law was given so that man could see that they could not make it into heaven on their own accord. By even following the letter of the law, a scapegoat still had to spill the blood and take on the sins of the nation. The law was never enough. Faith had to take a prominent role. The Jews had forgotten that over the years. The law became more important than the One who gave the law. With Jesus appearing, the law was fulfilled. The need to strive for redemption was removed. He replaced it with His sacrifice. Once again, the law is not bad and should not be completely ignored. Jesus only ignored the parts that had been corrupted and misconstrued. Over time the religious leaders had added regulations and expanded their interpretations of the law to where there were many more regulations than what God gave originally. “Keep the Sabbath holy.” What does that mean? The leaders expanded this statement to mean that almost no physical action could take place on the Sabbath. Yet, Jesus and His followers went out into the field and harvested just enough to eat. Did that mean that the One who gave the law now desecrated it?

Jesus did keep Jewish tradition and practices yet He ignored the ones that were manmade and misinterpreted. If He had totally ignored Jewish practices He never would have reached the chosen people and shown them that He was God. The Jews were to be the tool to reach the rest of the world. “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations….”

Jews or Gentiles?

One of the first arguments that Paul differed from Jesus in his teachings is that he spread the message to the Gentiles (non-Jews) while Jesus said His message was for the Jews only. Many take Jesus’ words from Matthew 10:5-6 as supporting the Jew only stance. “These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.” Paul stated in Romans 1:16, “I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentiles.” Many feel that these words are a deviation from the Matthew words that Jesus spoke.

One thing that anyone reading any piece of literature should keep in mind, is that the entire piece needs to be read and not just have one sentence or section pulled out of context and examined alone. Scholars look at the entire piece to get a better understanding. Because of the questioning of the Pauline writings, let us focus on the rest of scripture instead to see if there really is a conflict. We’ll look at the entire Bible as a whole with minimal focus on Paul’s writings.

In Luke 7 there is an account of a Roman officer who had a servant that was very ill. He had heard of Jesus’ miracles and looked to Him for healing. This man was not a Jew yet He turned to Jesus for a miracle. There is no statement that the Roman should become Jewish first or that he had to go through any hoops whatsoever. Jesus sees the man’s faith and heals. There is no comment made about the man’s religion or heritage. His faith alone was enough for Jesus to respond.

Another example is when a Canaanite woman approached Jesus begging Him to heal her child that was possessed by demons. This account located in Matthew 15 quotes Jesus as saying, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” Did this mean that only a Jew can be saved through Jesus? The woman continued to plead and in the end Jesus answered her requested because she showed such faith. This woman who was not Jewish and does not appear to ever become Jewish was blessed by God and recognized for her strong faith.

Another time that Jesus ministered to a Gentile was when He encountered the woman at the well. She was a Samaritan which means that she had some Jewish blood in her. She was considered unclean and not pure so therefore not accepted in Jewish worship. Jesus ministers to her despite this and the fact that she was living an immoral life. Jesus tells her, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.” These words do not say that it is only for the Jews. It was to be from the Jews.

When the Bible is taken as a whole, deep study reveals that the message was never meant only for the Jews. Isaiah 57:7 says that “for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.” In Isaiah 42:6 it says, “I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles.” While God choose the Jewish nation as His chosen people, never did He turn away those from other cultures that accepted Him. Ruth and Rahab were of Gentile descent and they are listed in the genealogy of Jesus. One could argue that they accepted the Jewish faith which is accurate. They did. But when Jesus physically arrived, He came as a Jew, practiced life as a Jew, and worshiped as a Jew. Does this mean all have to become Jewish? According to Isaiah, the Jews were to be the light to the world. They were to tell others about God and have them bow down before Him. There was a strategic plan for all of this.

The message of Jesus was brought to the Jews first because they already knew about Him. They had accepted God. They had planned for the Messiah. Therefore, they should be the most prepared for the arrival of the Messiah and for the continuation of His work. By His appearing and having His ministry focus on the Jews, He was giving the tools to them to reach the rest of the world. Never once did He say that all had to be converted first. His life practice as a Jew is common sense action since He was raised Jewish and if He totally turned His back on the Jewish faith He never would have reached the Jews to become the true light to the rest of the world. One could also argue that in many aspects He did reject parts of the Jewish faith. The religious leaders were always in His face about breaking Jewish law and not strictly obeying their practices. Where does all this fit in?

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More Like Complimentary

This brings us back to our original inquiry. Were Paul’s teachings in contrast to Jesus’? No. They were complimentary to them. The new church was trying to clarify points that came up as it was growing. Paul and the others that wrote the rest of the New Testament took Jesus’ words and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit explained Jesus’ teachings in ways that these new cultures would understand. The message was the same. The delivery was different. In fact, the Apostle Peter gives credence to Paul’s writings in 2 Peter 3:15-16: “Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that god gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.” If Paul was in direct contrast to Jesus and his writings should be ignored, what about Peter’s? Do we now ignore the other writings as well. Jesus gave Peter quite a bit of authority and poured His Spirit out on him. Now we are in a quandary.

Paul’s writing are harsh and directly to the point. He never minced words which many people do not like because it is so pointed in their own lives. Yet, in this sense He also complimented Jesus. Multiple times, Jesus called the religious leaders “vipers” and “stiff-necked”. Twice He ran them out of the temples as He destroyed their business stations because they were desecrating the temple. Paul was the instrument in which the Gospel was spread throughout the Roman Empire. He had privileges the other Apostles did not and would not be able to break through to the rest of the known world. The Twelve were to reach the Jews so they could be light to the world and bring others to Christ (not to Judaism). Paul was to open the doors for them so that they could accomplish the work they were called to do.

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Comments 95 comments

dusanotes profile image

dusanotes 7 years ago from Windermere, FL

RGraff, I read every word and I can't see a place or a point that I disagree with. You are well versed in the gospel and a credit to yourself and your family and faith. God bless you for sharing this wonderful article with all of us. Keep reading the scriptures, "for therein ye think ye have eternal life." It is a gateway to understanding. No one was ever saved in ignorance. That same spirit we leave this world with will predominate in the life to come. God bless you and thank you so much for not only an interesting Hub, but an inspiring one. Don White


eovery profile image

eovery 7 years ago from MIddle of the Boondocks of Iowa

You had me questioning you hub for a little, then I see that you wrapped it up okay.

One point I would like to stress, that was left open, is the law which was given to the Israelites. God wanted to go into the Isrealites and set up the higher law, but the Israelites rejected it, and did not want to life up to it. The lesser law was given to them which taught of the sacrifice that Jesus would do and was in a similitude of his sacrifice. And when Jesus would come, and allow himself to be a sacrifice. the law would be fulfilled, and the higher law would be established (or abolished of the law they had before.) The Israelites were actually set to be the ones who would fulfill Christ sacrifice, for who else could be relied on to make sure our savior was sacrificed so we could be saved.

So with the law fulfilled and his saving sacrifice was for all mankind, after he left, the gospel was taught to the rest of the world, as we see Paul went to the Gentiles. Even though we do not have records of this for the Asia area, there is records in the form of The Book of Mormon that Christ visited them after he left the Israelites. Christ said he had other sheep that are not of this flock that he would visit.

I hope this clears up this are.

Keep on Hubbing!


Paradise7 profile image

Paradise7 7 years ago from Upstate New York

I read it, and I agree wholeheartedly with your conclusion. The only differences I have in mind from the Apostle Paul are the harsh stance he takes against women, saying, "It is better to marry than to burn", as though marriage was the lesser of two evils instead of a blessing to both parties.

It is always important to stress context when there appears to be a contradiction in the Gospels. We often find an apparent conflict resolves itself because the spirit of the words is the same.


IntimatEvolution profile image

IntimatEvolution 6 years ago from Columbia, MO USA

Christ said to follow him was by the way James the Just, his Ebionite natural born brother.


Mikio profile image

Mikio 6 years ago

Jesus taught the imminent arrival of the Kingdom of God. His message was nothing really new to his contemporary because he, too, emphasized that 1) people love God, and 2) people love their neighbors as they love themselves. Jesus was a Jew, through and through. Paul, on the other hand, taught that Jesus died for people's sin so that salvation could arrive to all, Jews and Gentiles alike. Strictly speaking, Paul is the founder of Christianity.


Yechielshlipshon 6 years ago

I like that you at least distinguished between the acceptance of His Teachings, to the Jewish people, and the need for a Noachide to only observe the primiry rules, theSeven Laws of Noah. However, you still do not seem to realize, or ignore, that there was a large body of G-d Fearing Gentiles in the area; ten million of them, to three million Jews. So something had to be done!

To give the willing and good G-dfearing Gentiles a basis for a way to approach HaShem was, indeed, an act of mercy. We have in our writings what they objected to, and Saul/Paul responded that they, as not born or converted Jews, did not have to observe these laws, which always has been basic in our culture and tachings,for gentiles.

A Jew, then and now, cannot break with what G-d gave us, or we damage the connectioin between Him and the person who violates His way. This includes acceptance of anything that contradicts the Tanach/Old Testament, so Paul did as good a job as he could. Only, those who followed made some serious errors, and inter-faith and intra-faith relations have suffered becouse of these error. Some say to return to Jesus way for your salvation, but maybe, Paul should still have a say? Thank you for letting me coment;

Yechiel


Artin2010 profile image

Artin2010 6 years ago from Northwestern Florida, Gulfcoast

Saint Paul is truly an iconic figure in the writing of the New Testament, Saint John, Matthew, Mark, Luke, James and Timothy weigh in pretty heavy also. Saint Paul is dominating as God's teacher to all others beyond the Jewish leaders of that time! Thanks for sharing, this is a really good bio of Paul Saul of Tarsus. Blessings


Martha 6 years ago

You are all wrong.

The Lord Jesus Christ is already on the earth having been "born again" that is reincarnated, when He was born at 2.22am on January 11th 1944 in Sydney Australia which is Ephraim today, the land that will become the greatest nation of all as prophesied by Jacob Israel when he blessed Manasseh which is America today and then the younger son Ephraim...

The apostle Paul whose name was Saul which is 2 words away from Satan in the Strong's concordance numbers was the devil that Jesus warned would come after him and teach things He did not teach.

Jesus was an Essene as was Mary and Martha and Lazarus Magdalene. Mary and Martha were His two wives. In the Essene tradition if a man and woman were together for 3 years and she did not conceive the Groom took the younger sister for His wife since it was all about leaving behind His seed of the Royal Bloodline to be protected in secret by the Divine plan of God so that He could get back here at the end of the age...The only way onto the earth is through the womb!!...Jesus is NOT fronting up on a big white horsey in the clouds...all the revelation is symbolism,...clouds mean..covering...confusion...the white horse in the heavens refers to the constellation of Pegasus and is the symbol of power and the reason that all rulers including the Queen today ride a white horse...the rapture is the work of the Jesuits to deceive and have all mankind looking up ...rejecting the Truth for the deception of the devil who was cast down to the earth.

The Torah is not of God, it is the work of Lucifer. Yahweh/Yashua/The Christ who is the genetic offspring of King David has the name today that is the name of Revelation 19:12...being the prophecy of the Lord coming at the end of the age with a name that only He would know...

That name that He has been revealing...which is what the "revelation "is...for the world to know is Brian Leonard Golightly-Marshall, The King of kings, The Lord of lords, The Word of God, the Key of the House of David Is:22.22

Google His name and it will take you straight to Him and His Youtube site where He has been teaching the humble of heart and those who have ears to hear and eyes to see that mankind has been born into a deception so great because they have been prevented from the knowledge of the Truth of His return through the womb of the most royal man and woman on the planet...even they had no idea who they were...let alone that they had brought forth the Lord Jesus Christ in His second coming.

The Apostle Paul did not have a conversion on the way to Damascus, he was not visited by the Lord or heard His voice...it was Lucifer the angel of Light and the subsequent conversion was an "infiltration" into the community of the Essenes who had been warned about him...

The KJV Bible is a construct of men who were Freemason Scholars led by Francis Bacon the lead Freemason of his time.

The only thing the original KJV is good for are the number values...they are codes of the verses and words when used with the 1830 James Strong's concordance of Hebrew and Greek...

God is good end of story...He did not tell his disciples to write anything...the only books needed are Isaiah and the Revelation is handy for this time now...the books of Daniel, Ezekiel, Hosea, Joel are good too...all were about the end of the age when the Father visits His vineyard that His Son was sent to and murdered by the same greedy evil pharisee rulers who are still in control today through reincarnation the understanding of which has has been removed from the minds of the western nations deliberately...

This time no more Mr Nice Guy...JUDGMENT...fulfilling the Isaiah prophecies that He is rejected by His wife who He finds upon His return has become the Whore and been consumed by the beast through the Christian churches whose foundations all come from the teachings of the devil Paul....as she has rejected Him so He divorces her and extends the invitation to the wedding to all peoples of all nations and all tongues and all beliefs...He does not care what anyone believes since He knows they have all been deceived by the devil ...as He has said after the judgment it will all get sorted...

The judgment or the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord is what 2012 is all about...the last day of Daniel is 20th December 2012...the last day for repentance before we cross over the center line of the Milky Way Galaxy to the North side from the South side...our current position....the North side is the heavenly realm and is Why we have all been praying 'They Kingdom come They will be done on the earth as it is in heaven"....He had to be here on the earth which is the realm of hell to awaken us from our sleep and to lead us over to into Paradise which is what he foretold the repentant thief on the cross"this day you will be with Me in Paradise"...He was foretelling of this day NOW....the time of the end and the beginning of the reign of Christ who is already on the earth...the 144,000 being the first to awake from their sleep and preach the good news to everybody...

The meek inherit the earth...not Christians who are the most deceived of all through their unbelief that He is Who He IS...they would rather die for their bible than believe that they have been deceived and repent....

Google His name...Brian Leonard Golightly Marshall...it matters not what you think...it is not an election....the angels are the ones who do the reaping at the end...they know who is who in the zoo and from them there will be no escape...

To those who recognize Him....there is peace and immortality from the moment of recognition which is like a flash of lightning from the east to the west...

In peace and Truth

Martha Magdalene...the Mother of all living


paarsurrey 6 years ago

Hi friends

Paul invented a new religion and named it after "christ" very cunningly; Jesus never believed in the creeds introduced by Paul. Jesus was at that time in India; Paul exploited his absence.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim


notloc27 profile image

notloc27 6 years ago from Some Place

I really enjoyed this reading! You definitely know your way around the NT! I personally never questioned if Paul was contradictory to Jesus, but now I have a great hub to point to if I meet someone who does. Thank You :)

God Bless


ericsomething profile image

ericsomething 6 years ago from Charleston, SC and Riverside, CA

Interesting stuff, good conclusions. It took me a while to wrap my head around some of Paul's teachings, but at some points in his epistles -- particularly his take on women in 1 Corinthians (as Paradise7 pointed out), Paul was pretty up front in saying he was speaking of his own preferences, his own opinion. None of which, by the way, will undercut the authority of Scripture.


Disappearinghead profile image

Disappearinghead 6 years ago from Wales, UK

I find it rather bizarre that anyone would consider Paul's teachings to be in any way contrary to Jesus. So I've never even considered this question. Thanks for a really good hub though. You obviously have a good grounding in scripture.


HubCrafter profile image

HubCrafter 6 years ago from Arizona

Thank you for sharing this very informative hub about Paul and the teachings of Jesus Christ.

It made for some enjoyable reading this Sunday morning.


Deborah Sexton 6 years ago

There are many false teachings of Paul


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Paul and others do not change overnight. As you know by the way the Catholic Church brings up their children in a closed environmnet, meaning that they take their children from a very early age and instill their teachings into them. They claim they are the ONLY Way. Well Paul was brought up a Roman Soldier from a very early age and his job was to bring in anyone who Rome seemed fit to kill because they did not believe in Ceasar or the ROME way of doing things. Paul was an infiltrator, used by the Roman to bring in more unsuspecting Jesus followers. Look what they did to Peter who was supposed to be the Foundation of the Church, NOT Paul. When it is *SAID* (this is something that was heresay) he all of a sudden became a Christian, talk abut pulling the wool over people's eyes! Changes like that do NOT occur overnight like the scholars say.


Deborah Sexton 6 years ago

I agree L.G. what better way to turn them away from Yahshua then to put on sheep clothing and teach opposite of what Christ taught.He actually hated Yahshua and he said he thought to teach opposites what Christ did..he didn't just think it, he did it.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Deborah and the name change was a perfect cover up. Only some can't see the truth even if it is right in front of their eyes. Rome wanted(s) to own the whole world even if they have to get it by sinister means.


Deborah Sexton 6 years ago

Acts 26:9 I (Paul) verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.


Aryn Sullivan 6 years ago

Deborah- Prime example of taking something out of context. If you go on reading from Acts 26:9 you see this is Paul leading up to speaking about his conversion. Paul not only was a true believer of Christ, but he was willing to be imprisoned, beaten, and laid at deaths door numerous times, as a result of spreading the word of Christ! This is a good example of why people should truly read and study The Word of God before trying to lay false claim to it!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

Aryn, you don't read the word of God--nobody does that are fundies because all they know how to do is quote scripture with scripture. They don't want and are told other books are heresies. Was Paul really treated that way or is it the way Rome wants you to believe it that way.


davethoughlife 6 years ago from Papua New Guinea

To understand better about the teachings of Paul and Jesus, we need to look deeper into the history of the Jewish religion. To analyse the whole thing only on that segment of time that Jesus and paul were around is like studying only the middle of the elephant without seeing the head and tail.

Jesus never wrote holy scriptures like Buddha did and Paul never deliberately wrote the New testament books accorded to him. There were so many letters that he wrote. He was not necessarily writing a book. What is called the letters of Paul in the Bible now is an artifact of scholar's opinion. They only compiled the letters that they thought were worth printing.

The Jewish religion had evolved to quite an advanced state by that time and there many things that Paul knew about the Jewish religion that we don't know. Those actually shaped his thoughts. A detailed discussion is too advanced here but I admire Paul for his courage. I couldn't care much about wether he was right or wrong Paul was a miracle himself. Billions of christains today are in this faith becuase of Paul. Talk about influence.


Deborah Sexton 6 years ago

My husband was born in Israel. I speak Hebrew and I have thoroughly read scripture. I just wrote a hub about Paul.

But just one for now. It takes a lot of writing to show all his deceit.


Deborah Sexton 6 years ago

Lady G. I agree, Paul had to change his name so he would be undetected.

Jude 1:4

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 7:15

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

davethroughlife, Now what makes Paul a miracle? That he is a good deceiver that got everyone to do his bidding? Or was it that most of his writings usurp that of Jesus and Peter? Or maybe it was that he thought that or they said that he saw Jesus in a rock? None of those are considered miracles today and far from it.


r-o-y profile image

r-o-y 6 years ago

Excellent , keep up the good work. The reason why the traditionalist hated Paul (and still do) is because Paul was one of them, he was probably their top generals, he became a bigger threat to them than all the other apostles. He knew their inner workings. To them he was a traitor, the worst kind of enemy. They knew they couldn’t kill him outright, that would have truly exposed them. They tried that with the Messiah, it back fired on them and caused their own condemnation. The only other alternative was discredit him, bring division amongst the believers, and the gospel. And keep the people in darkness.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

roy, you are talking about two different groups of peoples, not the same group. So that doesn't hold water.


Deborah Sexton 6 years ago

Paul is the stumbling block prophesied in Numbers 24.

Paul the Anti-Christ


born to be free profile image

born to be free 6 years ago

I just have a few questions for those who doubt the Apostleship of Paul:

1. Do you also deny the Divinity of Christ?

2. Do you deny that Jesus is the only way to the Father?

3. Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead?

I ask this because the fact is, if you are not a Christian you do not have the Spirit of God within you. It is an impossibility for the mind of the carnal to understand the Word of God, let alone attempt to teach it.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

@born to be free Then why do you attempt to teach it?


born to be free profile image

born to be free 6 years ago

Hello Lady Guinevere,

A question in response to a question is not an answer! Do you have an answer to my question? If you are indeed an unbeliever you are as free as I am to state your position.

I did not ask this to start a war, I am simply pointing out that most who doubt Paul also doubt those things I pointed out above.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

You are wrong there. Jesus is not Paul and Paul is not Jesus, Two diffferent people altogether. They cannot be compared at all. Now it's your turn and my intentions was not to start a war either.


born to be free profile image

born to be free 6 years ago

I did not even attempt to compare the two, again, I am simply stating that the majority of those who say Paul was not an Apostle of Christ will usually also deny the Divinity of Christ, Deny the literal resurrection of Christ from the dead, and deny that Jesus is the only way to the Father.

Bob


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

What is the majority and census that you are using?


born to be free profile image

born to be free 6 years ago

Fact


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

What fact and where and whom all did you ask?


born to be free profile image

born to be free 6 years ago

This is a great platform to begin a census, maybe we will be able to get others to actually answer my original question. That was the intent of my original post. To answer your question; I have personally spoken to at least one hundred persons on this matter and I can only recall a couple that could sincerely answer yes to my original questions. If you can answer yes, I will add you to the results and it will be three.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

I just read over all the comments here and I didn't see any that said that Jesus was as you put it not believable. So how do you get that they *all * think that they don't believe. You don't make any sense. You are asking trick questions as in to beleive in Jesus you must also believe in Paul and his teachings. That is the same circular and unrealistic assumption that if you believe n your God as a human then you must also believe in your Satan which is some invisible being that stirs up all kinds of evil.

Comparing Jesus as in apples to Paul as in Pumpkins are you....hmmmm

Where is the rest of Jesus's teaching in the Bible and why have they been left out? (John 20:29-31 (Young's Literal Translation)) Why all of a sudden Paul's teaching become more important then Jesus's and what happened to all of Peter's accounts? They aren't in the Bible. Rome wanted all people to be under them and they were going to get it anyway that they could (still doing it with the RCC) Jesus gave people and out and Roman Rullers saw that as a HUGE threat. Paul was born and raised in the Roman Rule. He didn't know anything different. While Jesus's teachings were about LOVE ONE ANOTHER, Paul's was not. It only makes sense that when Paul told others that it would better to marry than to burn, Rome would get more money and they wanted all the money of the world.

Was Paul in the Upper Room? Was Paul everywhere Jesus was and what did Jesus tell others about why they shouldn't follow him? Why was Paul disliked by the Disciples?

I follow Jesus and not Paul, so there is an answer to your questions AND they do not pass your test that if you believe Paul that you don't believe in Jesus.


born to be free profile image

born to be free 6 years ago

You have not answered a thing Lady. You run all over the place in your efforts to avoid directly answering my questions. Believe me, I am very use to how people avoid and twist truth in an effort to make the Word of God justify their own belief system. Go ahead now and get the last word in because I am through with your little game. I will not respond to your ignorance again.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

You asked a few questions about if those who believed in Paul didn't not beleive in Jesus. I answered that group of questions with the answer of that I do believe in Jesus and not in Paul. I am sorry that you didn't read that. It doesnt' matter to me weather you ignore me or not because this is NOT your hub but that of RGraf. Why don't you go make your own hub.


RGraf profile image

RGraf 6 years ago from Wisconsin Author

With that being said, please continue this interesting debate in the forums. I would like to keep the comments directed more to the article itself. People outside of HubPages needs to see a quality community here so that they will want to come back for more and maybe even sign up with HubPages.

Thank you for all you comments. I appreciate any that were directly to my writing as I am a "young" writer trying to mature. :)


Deborah Sexton 6 years ago

Just a note to "Born to be free". You might want to study Paul's writings and compare them to Yahshua's and the Twelve Chosen Apostle's. In your study include the prophecies. Knowing Yahshua is the son of God does not mean Paul was an Apostle. .

The Bible explains Apostleship and there is no other meaning. There always has been and only could be Twelve.

There have been many false Apostles.

In Acts 1: when trying to find Judas Iscariot's replacement, Peter states that the candidates would be those who were with them when they were with Yahshua, from the time of the baptism to the same day Yahshua was taken from them..

Acts 1:21 "Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22. Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection."

Not after he was taken but till the same day He was taken from them.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain

RGraf,

Delighted that you finally stopped our two ladies from using your comments as a forum soap box for their controversial views, even more delighted that you wrote this scholarly article, which is truly useful when rebutting those vociferous few who deny the veracity of the Bible in it's accepted format.

I thank you, your writing is fine, and I say that as one who can rarely have the patience to complete a long and studious hub.

I followed yours from start to finish.

John


Ann Lee profile image

Ann Lee 6 years ago

Very well constructed lesson.


Deborah Sexton 6 years ago

Trying to show truth isn't soapbox aguasilver

I debate subjects and don't insult people (like you are doing) unless they start first.

How about you talk about the subject and leave the ladies out of it.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Deborah, this is a hub, not the forum.


Deborah Sexton 6 years ago

And?

Take your own advise. It is nowhere to attack someone's intentions.


RGraf profile image

RGraf 6 years ago from Wisconsin Author

I have asked that this conversation be taken to the forum. As my wishes are not being carried out. I am disabling the comment section of this hub which is unfortunate. I had hoped that people would comment on the article and not get into personal discussions amongst themselves and would also conduct themselves in a professional and ethical manner. Once I feel like enough time has elapsed for all to read this, the comment section will be disabled.

I am becoming very disappointed in how hubbers act on this site where some people are trying to make a go at being freelance writers. I use this site as a reference for other jobs and it is shocking to see what all is said and ultimately reflects on me. I appreciate those that have been professional and respectful of my wishes.


ShadowKing! 6 years ago

No, don't do that. Click Edit the hub. then click the Comment box, and check the first little box. This gives you control of first viewing the comment before approving it to be seen. I've done it to all of mine. It's also why I have very few comments on my hubs. I refuse to debate unrelated crap. Stick to the hub content.


faithingod1970 6 years ago

I would say that you are right when you say that there is no contradiction. You have a well thought out and supported argument. I did not see where, While you mention Paul seeing the light so to speak he is also told that he is to bring Jesus's message to the Gentiles would have been another argument for doing so. Peter is also directed by God in Acts to do the same.


thejcrevelator2 profile image

thejcrevelator2 6 years ago

The Hub and the comments are Interesting and thought provoking.

The fact remains that most Christians simply don’t follow the instruction of Jesus. The basis of Christian belief has to be the First and Second Commandments, the Commandments in Mark 17:19 and the Golden Rule. Yet few live their lives by these commands from God.

All who followed Christ during his mission and all today fail in some ways and Paul too failed, but to think he is an angle of Satan is too hard.

We should concentrate on the message, not those who will not hear and will not see.

Of the many churches I have attended few have a focus on the commandments and pushing for adherence to the instructions from God. I stopped going to church sessions that studied obscure verses and debated meaningless rambling from the both the NT and OT.

In the end we will be judged by how we treated the “least among us” and the commandments.

Remember Paul was trying to build a church. Christ was trying to save our souls. They are in many ways different things.


ShadowKing! 6 years ago

You're right on the following rules part. But actually, JCrevelator, if you really read the Bible. Jesus came to earth (1) to "call out" His "elect" members from the rest of us, (2) so THEY could learn the "mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" to (3) later teach these lessons to the world when they reign with Christ a 1,000 years. At that time Jesus will SAVE us.

One of the most uneducated things a Christian can claim is "Jesus is TRYING to save us." C'mon, people. Is this not OUR God, our King, our Supreme Creator, Master of all things created? Well, don't you think that if Jesus was "trying" to save us "now" that He WOULD? How can a Son of the Supreme Being of the Universe claim "trying" to save us BUT hasn't? For one, it's humans claiming Jesus is "trying" to save us NOW. Point blank:if God moves to save He will achieve it.

The purpose of the Millennium is for Christ and His Church, His "small flock of elect saints" to educate us on what the Bible REALLY says.


Yechielshlipshon 6 years ago

Someone brought in the flse teaching of the Jews accepting only a lower law. The Alm-ghty did give two teachings (call Laws). Except for the Ten Words, the Torah given top MOses was the Oral Torah. 38 years later, Hew gave Moses the written, as in "write these words which I shall give/tell you."

So the Talmud, in essence, is 38 years older than the written Torah. Just used as He meant for it to be; adapt to the times. Sorry, this adaption exclude mutiplisity of G-d, in any style or form. He is still only one, as He said. He shall not share His glory with another. Maybe Pauil was caught between the Jewish, divine truth, and the heathen outlook?


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 6 years ago from West Virginia

RGraf, I left this hub the minute you said to stop and take it to the forums. I don't do the forums. It is very nasty in them and I haven't been to them in months, possibly a year. I don't see how comments of others would affect your character and it shouldn't. We all see things differently. I was attacked first and of course I have the right to defend myself, just as others do.

I think my point was that we humans can't go judging others for what Jesus puts in their minds and hearts. We are not always privy to know what the lessons and the paths that others are set to by Jesus. Only those others know and sometimes they don't as well. Love is the answer and all the answers are within each and every one of us. We as humans tend to judge those who are teaching as fanatics or don't know what they are talking about. Jesus did state that the answers were never in a book but in our hearts and in our minds. As soon as he stated that fact it would make all those who wrote the books or letters null and void and at the same time useful. God and Jesus will use whomever they want to spread the word and however they want them too. That is why we can't judge others. We can only judge ourselves.

Have a great day and send out of your heart and being love and unconditional love and understanding for all being on this earth and beyond.


Skeun 6 years ago

Few persons will disagree that Israel came into being for the purpose of being the example, the light, the way for the whole world. Few persons would disagree that Jesus attempted to bring Israel back to its purpose for being. Based on Mathew 21:43, Jesus had the following to say in regards to the success of His mission from God, "Therefore I say unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof". In other words, Jesus stated that Israel's special status was to come to an end.

One way or the other, Paul must have become aware of this "turn of affairs". How did Paul react to Jesus' Message? According to Acts Paul had a nervous breakdown. When mental problems or mental turmoil show themselves in physical symptoms, in psychology this is known as a hysteric conversion. Paul's mental turmoil caused him to go blind for three days. Based on the same source Paul is alledged to have been spoken to directly by Jesus.

Paul relates in Galatians 1:11-12 that everything he subsequently taught he received through a series of visions or dreams in which Jesus gave him the "inside skinny".

Based on what Paul said was the source of his revelations (directly getting his messages from Jesus through a series of visions and dreams), Paul had the following to say in regards to Jesus' divinity:

Paul stated that Jesus was Equal to God, ie. was God, Reference Philippians 2:6. In a number of other places in his writtings Paul also intimated that Jesus was God as well.

Paul also at one point stated that Jesus would lose His God status. Refer to I Corinthians 15:28: "And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Three things may be assumed in regards to Paul. Paul believed that Jesus "told him everything". Paul believed that Jesus, certainly at some point in his existence, was God. Paul also believed that at some time in His exixtence Jesus would "stop" being God, i.e., be once again be made "subject" to God. This would be done by God so that God might once again be all in all.

One should ask oneself, did Jesus actually give Paul this contradictory message? Does the fault lie with Jesus or with Paul?


Jehoshaphat 6 years ago

Dude, I'll say one sentence for you..

your knowledge is awesome!!!!

GOD BLESS YOU brother....!!!!!!


Pamitchrus 5 years ago

Humm.. I wonder with all the fighting amongst the original 12 diciples who just might be the one appointed to sit at the right hand our our Lord and Savior ????


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

RGraff, I absolutely love this hub ~ you are an awesome writer and really anointed, as those who know God can see and agree.

I'm familiar with many of the commenters and their opposing views...but God's Word is truth ~ the Apostle Paul represents all believers today, for He knew Christ as we know Him ~ by His Spirit; amen!

I am really amazed at born to be free's three questions to those who see Paul as an adversary. I know those questions cannot be answered "YES" by those who commented, and thus why they were not answered directly. Born to be free's got a fan, too ~ right after I click to follow you! God bless you as you keep on shining His Light!!


CertifiedHandy profile image

CertifiedHandy 5 years ago from Jonesboro,Georgia

I have some questions concerning Paul. In Acts 10 it is as if God prempted Paul by sending Peter to Cornelius the Roman Centurion. Not only did Peter minister to him but received revealation concerning dietary laws.

I write a blog entitled Christian Combat. I have begun an ongoing study on Paul. For example Paul is responsible for the christian tradition calliong men "spiritual fathers" a practice Jesus forbade. Matthew 23:9. Read some of these articles. I welcome your comments.

http://www.bwesley.blogspot.com/

In His Service


PrometheusKid profile image

PrometheusKid 5 years ago from Heaven

" It is necessary that there should be Wisdom to conceive, Strenght to support, and Beauty to adorn, all great and important undertakings." "know ye not," says the Apostle Paul, "that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man desecrate the temple of God, him shall God destroy, for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

Saint Andrew is so much better.

Just imagine if the people finally separated the Myth and Truth of the teachings of Christ. The world when change and finallly acquired the keys to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Here are keys= Humility, Patience, and Self-Denial


Buck 5 years ago

I have read much of the original premises and some of the commentary. My take on Paul [though not knowing Jesus in the flesh] was that he was the only true evangelical. He brought Christ to the World, when his own Jewish desciples hid from persecution and his own People rejected and killed him for preaching love instead of the old broken convenant that jews were chosen as if to rule all others by birth and ritual. God our Father may have chosen them but they rejected Him. Just as he caused Moses to slay half of the tribes in the desert for worshiping idols, He gave a new convenant to the Gentiles through his new emissary Paul, who taught grace for all mankind. Those who reject it are doomed to perish eternally.


Jannie D profile image

Jannie D 5 years ago from Parys, Free State, South Africa

Look guys its very simple, let me show you..

1. Do you also deny the Divinity of Christ? - NO

2. Do you deny that Jesus is the only way to the Father? NO

3. Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead? YES

NO DISCUSSION


cantorsam 5 years ago

Thank you RGraf for you're well thought out and thought provoking words.

Let me say first of all Iam a JEW but I also belive in Messiah Yeshua. Yes I belive that he is G_d manifest in flesh.

Yes I belive HE is the only way to the Father.

And Yes I belive HE rose again on the third day.

However this has less to do with Paul and more to do with ones faith in Yeshua as the Messiah.

What is at issue here is Paul.Over the years there are people who have said that he was a spy for the Romans,others that said he was a spy for the Jewish leadership. All of this is guess work at best.

The real issue is were his teachings opposed to Yeshua and the Torah or not. The answer is NO.The problem is that certin men have taken the words of Paul, and as Peter said, (His letters contain somethings that are hard to understand which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do other Scriptures to their own distruction.) 2 Peter 3:16. The problem is not Paul, as much as IGNORANT and UNSTABLE people who distort his words not to their own distruction but the distruction of others. I am certin that Paul would be very hurt knowing this.

Now let us get our EYE's back on MASSIAH YESHUA and follow his command to be a light to the nations and teach others the GOOD NEWS for this thing we were called. Not to argue over Peter,James,John,and Paul.

There are people perishing out there for lack of knowledge.GET TO WORK!

For our two Ladies read PROVERBS 17:28


Allan Saverio 5 years ago

Rgraff,

I have read your post and I admire your deep devotion in trying to bring to light biblical truths. I see there is a lot of confusion as to Paul and Jesus and the bible. But let me phrase to all a few questions.

Why the confusion?Is not God a God of order?

Can anyone fathom the deep or create or uphold the powers of the universe?Are we questioning God?

If the answer is no! than there must be a way that is hidden before the eyes of all mankind. There must be something in man that causes him to oppose and thus cause a lot of confusion. So where is the answer to avoid all these confusion? No matter how cleverly educated a man is and even one who could remember all scripture in the bible there is still confusion in the world which leads to sorrow.There must be an answer somewhere or God is a liar.Think about it.Why all the fuss?Why so many religions today - about +30,000 sects today with different teachings and therefore different Gods?Something must be really really wrong at out point of view.All argueing against each other saying they are correct and they have the truth and the rest are all wrong.Did Jesus come to bring salvation or more confusion.

The truth hidden which the whole bible comes under one perspective and all scripture agree with each other is a shocker and only few in this world know about it.

I will give you a hint. Where did Jesus say shall you find Him?Where is the kingdom? IN YOU!!! Who is supposed to be your teacher?Who is supposed to enlighten all men? John 1:9! Of course !Jesus himself!the comforter!the annointing in you 1John 2:27 that teaches you all things and you dont need another man to teach you but as the annointing teaches you,abide in Him. Jesus said to the desciples But you dont need another teacher but the Christ! Now you understand who taught Paul. Jesus said My sheep hear my voice and they follow me. Listen to my words....not the bible for He knocks on your door daily.

The bible is the recorded words of the Lord and prophets as they were moved by the holy spirit. The light that enlightens all man that come into the world (John 1:9) is the word Himself given to all men from the day of the pentecost.A portion of Gods spirit in all men. Jesus said to the pharisees 'In vain do you search the letter (scriptures) thinking you might have life BUT! you will not come to me..! Jesus and Paul have the same teaching but was not fully understood by all men..'as the light shown in the darkness but the darkness did not comprehend it'(John 1:1-9) Man did not comprehend that the word (light) abides in the man to enlighten him of the truth. What is this Light and how does it enlighten one? The light is that which reasons with you everyday of what is good and what is evil. Today we worship outwards but the true worship is INWARD and thats where the kingdom is found. The bible says 'Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. What is the purpose of the Gospel? Paul says in Collosions that 'the mystery of the gospel is Christ in you!' There He abides to teach the humble souls as Jesus told the woman in the well..'You dont know what you worship but we do! and the time is coming and is now here that true worshippers will worship the Father in truth and in Spirit.Worship will no longer be in the mountains nor in a church! but ''in you'' for you are the temple of God. The truth abides in you and thats where you wait in quietness for His rising. All the prophets were taught by God and this is not a new gospel. It was pronounced unto Abraham and all the prophets saw Gods wisdom and praised His mighty name. 'My soul shall wait for the Lord my God'..So if Jesus is the teacher as Paul was trying to explain in His letters therefore there will be no more confusion! and now you see that all man has come under one God irrespective of religion! By faith we uphold the law. There is the moral core of the law that Jesus tells us to uphold and the works of law was abolished on the cross. No more sacrifices as the blood of animals do not please God nor will it bring about salvation. What Paul was trying to explain to all is that Jesus is the way and He abides in all man to teach them the truth and to lead them to purity so that we can see God.Paul was teaching how the gospel was to be applied in the christian.The works are within the believer as the repenting soul must be brought low before God to realise how evil the flesh is. The works done within the man is the baptism of fire that few walk on this narrow path to attain salvation and holiness and power is given to us to change our sinful ways as we repent. The works are within the man and not without.We must be holy!! and salvation is at the end of the road and not some short prayer which christians profess today. To say you are saved by saying a short prayer and then continue to sin is like having a license to sin. If we easily enter heaven by automatically being saved than definitely there will be so much corruption in heaven, again???Therefore the soul must be brought to witness its weaknesses and thus hate the flesh.The truth of the Gospel is about purification of the man within. So we should stop trying to prove truth by our own fleshly wisdom and go to Him who is the truth than there will be no more confusion!


ayenuroadebanjo profile image

ayenuroadebanjo 5 years ago from Warri, Delta state

please i beg of you christian do not argue do not try to contradicts the writing of The Holy Bible, because everything about it is correct and complete.


cantorsam 5 years ago

I truly am sorry but the book is not complete. the church fathers left out many writings that would help with the understanding of the new testament. and give a better insite as to what Jesus was doing and why.

For instance in 1st Maccabees when they are reDedicating the alter the question is ask what shall we do with these stones and are told when the Messiah comes HE WILL TELL US CLEARLY. Then in the book of John chapter 10 Jesus is at the Temple for the Fest of Dedication and they say to him if you are the Messiah tell us clearly and he says I have told you but you dont belive me or the works I do in my Fathers name.Then they picked up stones to stone him.Now where did they get the stones.You see with out one book you dont know the whole story. And I could show you many other places just like this that would open up parts of the Bible that you never thought about.

Love and Shlom to all

In the name of the Lord

God most High

CantorSam


B.L. Zeebub 5 years ago

I will pray to the God of reason for the lot of you. Jesus didn't even exist in the flesh. Check out "The Christ Conspiracy" or any other related book. You've all been had. I was a Conservative Christian for three years as an adult. I was a moron. I was a republican for most of that time. I was a moron. You are all morons. You really are. it doesn't matter how articulate you are. You are all entirely too attached to Bronze Age mythology that has no basis in fact. The truth is literally at your fingertips but you will not pursue it because you are committed to believing what you want to believe. Your willful ignorance and that of the hordes of dupes like you will one day be the death of us all. Wake up! We have no time for this nonsense. Religion is a primitive man made distraction to keep most of us in our pen while our dark greedy corporate overlords drive us all to extinction. That's where we are all headed, and if Jesus did come back he wouldn't be rewarding the imbeciles who allowed the entire world to be trashed and sat around having theological debates while most of the earths inhabitants were exploited for the sake of extreme profit. Get real.


RGraf profile image

RGraf 5 years ago from Wisconsin Author

Please refrain from calling anyone names here. This is a place to comment freely with respect to each other. This is not a place to be condemning or vicious. It does not become anyone to be like that.


RGraf profile image

RGraf 5 years ago from Wisconsin Author

Please refrain from calling anyone names here. This is a place to comment freely with respect to each other. This is not a place to be condemning or vicious. It does not become anyone to be like that.


cantorsam 5 years ago

Well B.L.ZeeBub I think you hit the nail on the head. To often we do spend to much time talking about bronze age myths.And we do tend to engage in pseudo-intellectual diatribe. And yes you are correct that the DARK GREEDY CORPORATE OVERLORDS are takings us to the cleaners.However you seem to forget that most of group that help other people are Christians and Jews. Now I know that you must have just forgotten about St. Judes Childrens Hospital,or the Salvation Army. Or many other groups out there who are Christen and Jewish,that help others if you need a list I can send you one it's no problem. As a matter of fact did you forget that the Apostle Paul was told to rember the poor. He said that was the very thing he was eager to do. The bible says that we are to give 1/10th of our income to the poor. But I know that you just forgot that also. However you are right that corporate greed is killing us. But each one of us can and should try to make a change' after all that is one of the things we are called to do. Now as to following bronze age myths maybe,yet when my time comes to leave this life I can do so with a clear mind and heart. Yet let's just say you are right,then I am no better off than you true? However if we are right and you are wrong then YOU have a problem right? Think about it I hope you were not duped.

A Loving Moron


M.J. 5 years ago

Paul vs. Jesus's Teachings: Is There a Conflict?

I am dissapointed that the two ladies making comments in reference to your article were attacked here. There seems to be a limit to how much one can disagree with you and the others commenting. I love God first, and nothing will stop me from pursuing His truths. If we test scripture as we are instructed to do, than the facts present themselves, and without bias, we accept what we see. Read All of Paul's words, and you will see how he contradicted Jesus. But first ponder this; Paul the 13th Apostle? How do you even get past that one?


john 5 years ago

wheres the conflict?


cantorsam 5 years ago

Hi John

I hope that maybe I can clear up your question,WHERES THE CONFLICT? At Mount Sinai G_d gave 613 commandments. Now if we say that Jesus is the son of G_d. And if we say that he is G_d made flesh and living among us then we must also say that He is the one that spoke at the mount RIGHT?

There for HE(Jesus) must be the one who gave those 613 commandments TRUE? Now at Mount Sinai there was not only the whole house of Israel but those from the Gentiles as well is this TRUE?YES. Now these people were counted with and as a part the house of Israel,there for these 613 commandments were given to them as well Yes/NO/What? Of course to them as well. Now Jesus said (IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS)what commandments? The only commandments he spoke of were the ones that were already given. You know the ones that he spoke at the Mount the 613. Jesus also said (THAT ANYONE WHO KEEPS AND AND TEACHES OTHERS TO KEEP THE LEAST OF THESE COMMANDMENTS WILL BE GREAT IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN,BUT WHOEVER DOSE NOT KEEP AND TEACHES OTHERS NOT TO KEEP THE LEAST OF THEM WILL BE CALLED LEAST IN THE KINGDOM.FOR UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY NOT ONE JOT OR ONE TITTLE BY NO MEANS SHALL PASS FROM THE LAW OR THE PROPHETS TILL EVERY THING HAS BEEN FULFILLED.) Well as far as I can tell Heaven and Earth are still here and all of the Prophets have not fulfilled so one must conclude that LAW (commandments) must still be valid Right?

Paul now here is the problem child. Paul's first meeting with the brothers in Jerusalem is dubious at best. Paul says (THE BROTHERS WELCOMED ME WARMLY.) They said(IS THIS NOT THE MAN WHO PERSECUTED US EVEN TO DEATH.)Clearly they don't trust the man and with good reason. Really would you. Then the brothers send Paul off with a letter that says that the Gentiles are to(abstain from blood,meat polluted by idols,and sexual immorality.)(ACTS 15). this is the Law of kosher and moral obligation (LEV.chapter 11). Then they tell him to not forget the poor. When Paul get back to the Gentiles he tells them that the brothers (OFFERED NOTHING TO HIM ONLY THAT HE REMEMBER THE POOR.) Really is that what he was told or did he leave something out. Then he starts teaching that you can eat anything you like even meats given to Idols. Then he goes on to teach that the Law has been done away with nailed to the Cross and that we are no longer under the Law but under Grace. WAIT what about HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSING AWAY AND THE LAW AND PROPHETS BEING FULFILLED WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT? I guess Jesus forgot to tell Paul that part or maybe just maybe there is a problem with Paul. WELL there is not,you see Paul is having to deal with people who are wanting to turn back to there pagan ways or want to keep the Law for salvation OY VAY what a mess. So he is trying to get these people to under stand that GRACE and SALVATION are gifts you can't earn or buy,but keeping the commandments the way we show our LOVE for G_d that's all.

So where is the conflict, CHURCH MEN you know RELIGIOUS LEADERS. They are taking the words of Paul and twisting them to say what they want. Peter warned us about these people. And yet when you confront them about what they are doing they get mad and start trying to turn it back on you. And why you may ask because most of them know what they are doing it,s just that they don't want you to know. You see they are shepard's that feed only them self's. Waves tossed about,wind without water,those for whom HELL has been reserved, in simple terms FALSE TEACHERS. Yes I said it FALSE TEACHERS!

So John if you start to see a conflict between Jesus and Paul just remember Jesus is the the SON OF G_D not Paul and not your Preacher just do what Jesus said and the Jerusalem council and you will do well.

This will be my last post the Lord is calling me to other things,a good land flowing with milk and honey.

MAY THE LORD BLESS AND KEEP YOU

SHALOM. SAMUEL THE CANTOR

P.S. REMEMBER THE POOR


CQ 5 years ago

Who to say whos rite are wrong? Im pretty sure non of us where there! Every religion claims that the only way to heaven is following there teachings, musslim, christian,, etc. , but in every religion the message is there, granted the books are written by man and they tend to lean toward the beliefs of the writters. There is only 1 God our creator and to think that any religion is above another is missing the whole point


Alan 5 years ago

wow, mention Paul and all they all come out from under their rocks. Paul must be the most hated christian there was. God bless him, I look forward to shaking his hand one day.


Anthony Buzzard 4 years ago

If Jesus affirmed the unitarian creed of Judaism, Mark 12:29, why don't Christian affirm the same creed?


cantorsam 4 years ago

Because Paul did not give it HIS OK. And that would make Christianity are you ready this,JEWISH oy vay.


Clif 4 years ago

I was reading a web page the other day and agreeing with everything said, then it was pointed out that before Jesus died on the Cross he was preaching and teaching to the Jews who were under the Law, as He was. This Law was nailed to the Cross and we now live and walk in Grace. to step back into the error of just trying to comply with one Law, we are no longer under grace but Law and will be judged by the Law ( this is quoted as 'another gospel than the one I have preached to you by Paul. Satans party trick is to get people, just to comply with 'one bit of the Law' and then he knows he has us. We have to hit the bullseye, so to speak, 25 is no good. Saten knows this he is a master deciever.

One recent observatiuon is the misinterpretation of 'tithes' which Churches use to fund their operations. Its OT = Law = and was nailed to the Cross. So complying with it = Law = Death. And we have educated, University Church leaders who extol this docterine as ' Biblical and our duty etc ( robbing God !! ) ....I call it the Death Tax.

In one sense we can throw away every page of the Bible before Jesus's words on the Cross ' IT IS FINISHED' because our Salvation and the New Covenant started at that point. Dont do it, its a point to be made..yes read in context but also realize who Jesus was teaching to and both they and He at that time before his death were under the Law.

We are not.


Gusser 4 years ago

So God is not consistant? The law is always in effect or that becomes inconsistant. If belief in Jesus as the Messiah is the way to become Gods people, What about the Israelites? They believed not, Yet the Bible CLEARLY SAYS THEY are HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE. Jesus himself told a follower that the way into the Kingdom, was to Obey the Commandments. ( The Law) oopsy


cantorsam 4 years ago

Ysuah said(IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY(COMMANDMENTS). What commandments? He didn't give any NEW ones. And ACTS 15 James the brother of Yesuah sent out a letter that the Gentiles were to follow four LAWS that come from LEVITICUS 11-19. And Paul was there for this meeting and was given a copy of the letter. And if you read the letters of Paul more closely you would find that what he is teaching is the LAW. If you will take the time read MATT.7:15-23. LOOK its real simple ether Yesuah is the MESSIAH or Paul. But I will listen to God and Yesuah not men. Also read 2PETER 3:14-18. Take note of the words (LAWLESS MEN.)


jnriingen 4 years ago

My brief comment about all the above statements: "they're almost there, but not yet, at least for me. Most of them start quite rightly, but end their faith affirmations with faulty assumptions.


jnriingen 4 years ago

To the Hub author: Let the exchange of ideas continue, no matter what. People who may not be writing and sending in their views, are reading. That's what matters, to me.


Michael 4 years ago

The answer is in the Bible, so chances are, you've hit a wall in your reasoning, subjectivity.

2 Peter 3:16

He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

So, don't be ignorant, nor unstable.


cantorsam 4 years ago

i am not Ignorant nor Unstable YOU stopped short of verse 17.

2 Peter 3:17

(Therefore dear friends since you already know this,be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of LAWLESS men and fall from your secure position.


cantorsam 4 years ago

Sorry Michael I had to go and didn't get to finish my thought.

As I said 2 and 3 months back Paul is teaching Torah and is teaching rightly. The problem is teachers who have taken Pauls words and twisted them in order to get them to say what THEY want just as Peter said. This is what creates the the conflict not Paul. And as I have said before if a person thinks there is a conflict between the words Paul,Yesuah,or G_d, follow the words of G_d and Yesuah.

So if this logic is unreasoning then let it be, as far as subjectivity is concerned the words of G_d are not subjective IT IS WHAT IT IS.

As is written in Ecclesiastes 12:13

Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter; Fear G_d and keep his commandments,for this is the whole duty of man. For G_d will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing whether it is good or evil.

Now this is thought to be the words of King Solomon and if so then has he has hit a wall in his reasoning and subjectivity, NO G_d is the final judge no one else.And that my friend is not subjective.


Mikol 4 years ago

The hub author sounds good in his structure but Paul was an APOSTLE to the Gentiles not the JEWS or Jesus (Romans 11: 13). The twelve APOSTLES represented each of the twelve tribes of Israel in those ancient times and not the GENTILES. However, GENTILES can be grafted into the root of Israel if they remain in faith. There is a warning from your APOSTLE and he tells you that, " Boast not against the branches (i.e. Christianity). But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root (i.e. ISRAEL)....Romans 11: 18. I agree with several posts that although Paul did not see Jesus physically and was NOT a APOSTLE to Jesus as there was no 13th, Paul still did the work of a servant in his own way that angered many disciples of Jesus who never did put any trust in Paul for various reasons. This had led to many notions of conflict between Old testament and New testament prophecies as the Testaments are not concerning books but they concern atonement of sin only as the Hebrew Bible, Torah has always been the only authentic bible. Marcion the bishop from Rome/Sinope in the year 140 AD was responsible for the divide in scriptures. Before Marcion there was no divide between Old Testament/New Testament books as the bible is complete and the real New Testament is Jesus (Yeshua) as He alone represents the atonement of sin and not any books. The New Testament (i.e. Jesus) taught from the Isaiah Scroll to his many disciples and the TWELVE so how could this be called an Old Testament Book? The disciples never put there NAMES on any books as they didn't want people to think that they were talking for G-d. The Roman church fathers of that time added the names of the disciples as they saw fit. Let us all be grafted into the house of faith and share with one another as Christ disciples and not as opposites.

Spirit and truth is the only way to go.


cleret 4 years ago

its difficult how to reason with false and truth the day will come when we all wil know the truth but could be late then


wba108@yahoo.com profile image

wba108@yahoo.com 4 years ago from upstate, NY

I think that many try to understand the scriptures apart from the aid of the Holy Spirit. In other words they try to understand the things of God with their natural understanding or reasoning but this is not possible. It says in the scriptures that the natural man cannot comprehend the things of the Spirit because they are spiritually discerned.

Often scriptural truths seem to contradict each other but in reality, understanding is found in the tension between to seemingly opposing truths.


Bob Woolsey 4 years ago

It's also about the spirit of the law -- Christ was forgiving, Paul gives rules and laws which do not exist. There is too many people who quote Paul for their selves either to condemn or justify. You spend several paragraphs talking about what Christ said and then say in just a few paragraphs why they are complimentary..Much more research must be taken into consideration. Accepting Jesus as my savior and following him, does not mean I must follow the teaching of Paul, when his instruction was not to teach but spread the word of Jesus, I surely believe in his writings and most of what he says but to set down his words are "complimentary" to Jesus' is 90% correct but thee are 10% which are not.

Paul for example indicates a women should not barely be seen in church when Jesus states Mary is where she should be by his side and learning. Where for example were all the men at his crucifixion and the women were there? Christ says who shall throw the first stone and Paul excommunicates people from the church.

I just don't think Paul's letters to communities should be taken as gospel when we have the Gospel's to follow..There are some direct contradictions and in those instances I follow the words and teachings of Jesus..Too often Paul's word become Jesus' and that just is not "the truth", Jesus was the truth and the way not Paul. Christ does not say Paul is the way, but he shall lead them to me...He doesn't say Paul, along the way can you lay down some of the laws for me, since I missed them or you know what Paul, since I did such a poor job of teaching in my ministry, would you explain it for me...I interpret what God says and I'm sure Paul did as well and I tell people what I think and I'm pretty sure it will be cleaned up in the end, I just don't see Paul's teaching are dicta where as Christ's should be.


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FSlovenec 4 years ago from San Francisco, CA

Well done...Jesus also said that not one letter or punctuation of the law will go away.. thank you for the great post!


AnalyzeItAll 3 years ago

Lets look at the facts

Yahushuwah did not spend his life on earth teaching repentance, love, self-analyzing, spiritual truths and the true god only to die and all that to be dead by another mans opinions and options to be the main factor in people's hearts and minds instead of his message.

Yahushuwah never intended for the bible to be the word of yahuwah people have mistaken yahuwahs words with man's and the devil (the un-divine). The creators words are few and only the few find them and truly live them. Do we make the lying prophets and satan's and the demons the


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theomajor 2 years ago from New Zealand

Overall a disappointing article. One obvious misconception by the author; what is a Jew? "...A Samaritan has some Jewish blood". It is written the lost sheep of Israel. In other words Yahshua came to save the Israelites, not just the Jews. Paul was in fact of the tribe of Benjamin. A Samaritan is most likely predominately of Ephraim but there was a vast rift between those of Judah and their northern brothers due to several hundred years of conflict.

Here is another issue. Why did Paul say women should be silent? He still thought like a Pharisee. It differs to the Way Of Moses and Israel if you read the Pentateuch or Sadducee/Karaite doctrine. The problems Yahshua had with Jewish leaders was their takaknot; the traditions of men. There is no mandatory hand washing before a meal in the Law/Nomia. That is why the author cannot provide a biblical cross-reference. Shalom.


Matthew Perri 2 years ago

Which is the most important?

Jesus was asked twice, by two different men, the same basic question about which is the most important or greatest commandment in the Law. Here is how Jesus answered that question:

#1

“One of the teachers of the law… asked him [Jesus],

‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “ is this: ‘Hear, of Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than THESE.” [Mark 12:28-31, Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18]

#2

…an expert in the law, tested him [Jesus] with this question: ‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’”

Jesus replied: “’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments.” [Matthew 22:36-40, Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18]

But in contrast with Jesus, Paul the Pharisee didn’t know the greatest, most important, first commandment according to Jesus. Paul made up his own rule. Paul wrote:

“The entire law is summed up in a SINGLE command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” [Galatians 5:14, Leviticus 19:18]

And again, Paul wrote:

“He who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not covet, and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this ONE RULE: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” [Romans 13:8-10, Leviticus 19:18]

Jesus said it’s TWO commandments, with the greatest, most important, first command to

.1) first, love God with everything you’ve got, and

.2) second, love people.

Paul said no, it ONE commandment- to love people.

This is very similar to The Beatles- “All you need is love. Love is all you need. Love, Love, Love.” (In other words, the second commandment, the love of man, without the love of God. Love as me, myself and I define love to be, and continuously redefined by sinful men.)

In essence, it is also the same principle as what Eve did in the Garden of Eden, forgetting about the Tree of Life, which is the first tree in the middle of the Garden, and instead referring to the second tree as “the tree that is in the middle of the garden.” [Genesis 3:3 & 2:9 2:17, 3:24]

Kind of like the Pharisees with Jesus, who were pushing the false idea that we can consider ONE commandment in the Law, alone in isolation, to be “the greatest commandment in the Law.”

Or like today, false teachers in the Chrislam – Purpose Driven - Seeker Sensitive – Emergent – Liberal - Ecumenical - New Age - world church movement pushing the false idea that the ONE RULE is “Loving God and Neighbor together.”

The Lord God Jesus the Jewish Messiah, Son of Yahweh the Most High God of Israel, said:

“All the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments.”

Not one. TWO.

Sometimes, Paul was wrong. Jesus is always right. I’m following Jesus.

Here are answers to 2 common objections:

.a) What about the so-called “Golden Rule”?

Jesus spoke the 3 chapters of the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5-7, including 7:12. Jesus didn’t make PART of this one verse out of context into “The Golden Rule” or “one rule.” Jesus did not use the term “Golden Rule,” it’s simply a tradition of men. The sentence begins with “So” in the NIV and Amplified Bibles, and “Therefore’ in the NASB and King James Bibles, which ties 7:12 to the previous sentences. So 7:12 cannot stand alone as One Commandment.

.b) What about the so-called “Great Commission”?

Jesus spoke the words recorded in Matthew 28:18-20, including “make disciples of all nations.” Jesus never used the term “Great Commission,” it’s simply a tradition of men. Yes I agree it’s a commandment given by Jesus, it’s not optional, and it applies to us today. We need to carry this out, with our own God-given abilities and talents, using the skills, and circumstances we have. But we don’t need to put words in the mouth of Jesus, we can let Jesus speak for himself, and we can listen to Him – and obey Him.

Evangelism is part of the Second Commandment given by Jesus, to Love people. Evangelism is not the most important commandment, and it isn’t the entire Second Commandment. So if our priorities are “The Great Commission and the Great Commandment,” we have our priorities upside down and confused, and we are not listening to the voice of Jesus. Never mind what Paul said. Let’s listen to the voice of Jesus first, and get our priorities straight.

The people who will protest most loudly against this truth are the modern “Pauls:” traveling evangelists, speakers, writers, abusive absentee mega-church pastors, Crusaders, and self-appointed “apostles” like Paul, who find it “profitable” to “be like Paul” rather than follow Jesus the Jewish Messiah.


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deorganicchurch 2 years ago from Claymont, DE

One of the things to keep in mind before delving into a discussion of whether or not Paul contradicted Jesus is the inerrancy of Scripture. The entire canon of the Bible is God breathed, and it does not contain errors. Paul does not contradict Jesus Christ if context is observed correctly. Paul was called by Jesus during a divine visitation. "But in the going it happened! He drew near to Damascus, and suddenly a light from the heaven shone around him. (4) And falling on the earth he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute Me?" (Acts 9:3-4 LITV). He also received his gospel directly from Jesus. "And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel preached by me, that it is not according to man. (12) For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but by a revelation of Jesus Christ" (Galatians 1:11-12 LITV).


Andrew Stunich 15 months ago

Great job, but i would add the following regarding the claim Jesus never said to preach to the gentiles. It is true that before rising from the dead after three days that Jesus told his Disciples only to share the message with the Jews but later stated that the gospel would be preached to all the world for a witness unto all nations . (see Matthew Chapter 24) Then after his resurrection Jesus said: Go ye therefore and teach all nations . . . (see Matthew chapter 28) it follows that the claim Paul contradicts Jesus because he preached to the gentiles is an absurd one. Since Paul's ministry came after the resurrection, he plainly did EXACTLY as Jesus commanded.


RGraf profile image

RGraf 15 months ago from Wisconsin Author

Thank you for your comment and the suggestion. You are right, he did exactly as he was told. To say otherwise is hard for me to comprehend.

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