Proof Of The Existence Of The Great Spirit

The Great Spirit Calls To Me Both Physically And Intuitively

The Great Spirit As Expressed Through Orchids (Photo Credit: Ben Zoltak)
The Great Spirit As Expressed Through Orchids (Photo Credit: Ben Zoltak)

Why do we all love proof?

I had a dream recently where I was visited by three spirits, at least one of which I felt was an old ancestor. In the dream they pointed out that I was lost, and then I pointed out that maybe it was them that was lost. I asked them, "What about the Great Spirit?" Then, as quickly as they had arrived in my consciousness, they turned around and left.

What is proof of the existence of The Great Spirit? Is it the same as proof of the existence of God? Mostly I'd say yes, with the exception to those individuals who define God as a creature who tortures so-called "evil doers" for eternity or those who define God as a head administrator who arbitrates a set of subjective temporal laws through a group of divine bureaucrats here on earth. Do you follow what I mean? The Great Spirit is, but anyone can take any name of anything and construe it in a way that obfuscates the truth or worse, exploits the labor of weaker individuals so that a small group can live in opulence. But I digress. Yes, you say, Ben Zoltak would you please get on with it, where is your so called "proof"?

Alright keep your pants on, I'm getting to it. The singer Paul Simon has a great line in his song Proof, where he sings, "Faith is an island in the setting sun, but Proof! Yeah Proof is the bottom line for every one."

I've always taken that to mean, there is something about faith that endears your spirit, that delivers you from the bottom, or minimum of this world.

The Spirit Is Inside You

One last word before I give my spirit away to the world again in hopes of making it a better place. In this world, we need to embrace latitude. Whether your friend worships a fella named Mohammad, Moses, Jesus, Buddha, The Goddess, Quetzalcoatl, The Great Spirit, or a myriad of names deemed by a people or person, you first need to honor what that person defines as their relationship with the Great Spirit.

I honor atheists and agnostics for their relentless and vigorous pursuit of a more tangible understanding of life and existence. To me, atheists and agnostics are people who have been turned away from a divine connection because of someone else's arrogant or manipulative approach to religion. In my life, when getting to know agnostics, these people often turn out to be individuals who are sick of religious zealots killing in the name of their chosen Deity. For them, any so-called relationship with God is an exercise in futility at best and a device for servitude at worst. Why do I preface with all of this information before I give away my proof? Well that's easy, I don't want to appear to be sanctimonious or in anyway smug. What I admire about many agnostics is they are still searching in some way for proof, while other religious zealots who have claimed to have found it long ago, are no longer searching but are instead stuck in a quagmire of half-truths and manipulation. As an agnostic friend of mine who read the first draft of this article informed me, not all agnostics are searching or care to search for proof at all.


Soon our fortunes will be made my darlin' and we will leave this lonesome little town.

Where we go when we die

I believe that when we die and our physical bodies disintegrate there is one thing left behind, our imagination, our thought. Our thought, as defined by those prickly and erudite syllables of science, is a creation of the rapid fire of synapses in our brains correct? Well, yes and no. Our thoughts are also connected, very physically, to our hearts and all the nerves in our bodies. We are as violas in an existence where the very wind plays our strings. We are affected by multiple stimuli, light, sound, magnetism, gravity and more. You can't take our imagination out of our head and pour it in a cup, but we know it exists.

Thought and existence itself is my "proof" of The Great Spirit. Unfortunately for many this is not validation enough, but for me it is. For me the sights of forgiveness and natural beauty help redeem the suffering and sorrow in this world. For others I know the existence of mindless suffering and torture is enough to turn them away from any divine connection.

I believe in The Great Spirit but I also believe in human beings and Science. Where the two meet has historically been bent. They are usually seen as arguing apples and oranges. Certainly balderdash like Creationism and it's weaker cousin Intelligent Design hasn't helped redeem the balance. In my musings I wonder if at a time in the future Science will discover more about what happens to our consciousness when our bodies fade away? There are subatomic particles (quarks & leptons) that appear to change to Scientists, according to how they look at them! The observation itself appears to have an effect on how they appear. These quarks and leptons of course, exist whether Scientists label them or not. That's where many agnostics and atheists get lost I believe.

I like to argue with my atheist and agnostic friends that their anti-Deism is a modern invention. It is a reaction to The Great Spirit not being fair. They are upset that the Deity is not predictable, like paying a utility bill or turning on a desk lamp. When they want an answer to something, they want it now and they want it easily defined. We all exist whether we Scientifically label objects or not. That is the proof. It would be easier for me to believe there were no God if we did not exist.

But all these beautiful plants, all these magnificent animals, all those bright stars in the sky, all the opalescent art created by people, all this kindness I've experienced, in spite of my personal tragedies, in spite of the world's tragedies I believe in The Great Spirit. I believe our consciousness is pure energy and as Science points out energy can not be destroyed, it can only change forms.


Update 10.29.2010

As an artist, writer and spirit seeker I thought it would be poignant to add that I find the image of my orchids to be a solid sort of evidence for the existence of the Great Spirit. In and of themselves, they are tonal variation in pure crescendo, and arches and waves of shape that are unparrelled.

Ben

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Comments 64 comments

Hello, hello, profile image

Hello, hello, 6 years ago from London, UK

An excellent hub and interesting read. Thank you for making a very good point.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thanks Hello, Hello, an agnostic friend of mine just made a point that I am going to address/edit above. Thank you for the comment!

Ben


Green Lotus profile image

Green Lotus 6 years ago from Atlanta, GA

Ben this is a wonderful Hub that expresses so many ideologies with which I can agree. Your words are so inspiring and so poetic. I love when you say, "We are as violas in an existence where the very wind plays our strings." Beautifully said. Thanks!


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thank you Miss Lotus for being a constant source of encouragement for my writing and my art. This is a collection of thoughts I've been working on for many years and I'm glad to share it. It's not easy to try to bring different types together in a peaceful forum without doing more harm than good. By your comment I feel that I may have succeeded in some good. Thank you GL!

Ben


Arthur Windermere profile image

Arthur Windermere 6 years ago

Hey Ben,

Can I just take you up on something? "To me, atheists and agnostics are people who have been turned away from a divine connection because of someone else's arrogant or manipulative approach to religion." I'm not sure you get to decide that. It's a little cavalier. I'm an atheist and it wasn't religion that turned me away from faith. Heck, I thought the Catholic Church was great. I still like a lot of things about it. I like a lot of things about most of the world religions. The only reason I'm not Catholic today is because, well, I became an atheist.

Not much I can say about the rest. It's a beautifully-written expression of your sentiments. You've proven to me that you believe in The Great Spirit. hehehe

On a serious note, as a philosophy student who has spent a lot of time thinking about these things, I can say without a doubt that the argument from design is the most powerful of them all.

Here's a website you might enjoy. It's a series of interviews with physicists, biologists, and spiritual writers about the possibility of reconciling science and religion: http://meaningoflife.tv/


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thanks Arthur, although this has been an ongoing exploration for me over the years, I'd be remiss not to mention that your article and the conversation with Jane Bovary recently inspired me to get my thoughts out in text. There is a lot about this collection of verbs that feels cavalier to me, as you say and it's always a vulnerable path to let others know your more intimate observations and beliefs, but nothing ventured... well you know. I think to swim in these waters (the sea of religion, science and philosophy) you need to leave the life preserver behind.

Probably my most favorite quote from an outspoken atheist(checking to see if you capitalized the word...) is from one of Kurt Vonneguts' books where he says (and I paraphrase here, was it from Bluebeard? Unsure...) something to the effect: I don't believe in God, an afterlife, or heaven, but when someone dies, I like to say, "They're up in heaven now." Not because I believe in heaven, but just because it's a nice thing to say. Although Vonneguts intention seems warm on the surface, the deeper vein of his sentiment feels heartless and cold to me.

I struggle to believe in the existence of atheists, just as I struggle to believe in the existence of zealots. That is to say, it is difficult for me to believe that someone wholeheartedly believes every word of their chosen religious text, or that another individual is absolutely sure there is no Deity. The devil it seems is really in the details here.

It's the surety of the thing that astounds me, but perhaps that's why I wrote this article, to explore beliefs like yours that I don't understand. I have a Panentheistic view that isn't welcome in many religious or nonreligious circles, but I feel like it has a lot of give. It's difficult for me to understand the certainty of zealots and atheists, but typing that I feel like my tone sounds antagonistic, but to reiterate that isn't my aim.

It makes me smile because within 24 hours of writing this I've had one agnostic friend tell me that I misrepresented agnostics' views and an atheist friend inform me I've overstepped my bounds describing atheists' motivations, and I thought I'd be offending the religious folks! Anyway, thanks again for taking time to read my thoughts here AW, I am honored and your input is always welcome.

If you can expound a little on your views about design I'd be grateful. I know Stephen Hawking has an eloquent take on it. I'm not sure how I feel about anything related to traditional religious notions of "God's design", I'm not exactly of the "clockmaker" philosophy either, I'm afraid I'm one expansive pool of intuition when it comes to the Great Spirit.

Going to go check out your link now Geronimo!


JannyC profile image

JannyC 6 years ago

Very Deep. I got called agnostic once not sure that even fits me. Though I do see you points in your theory of what can make one agnostic. I sadly have had bad religious experiences that definately turned me away from churches and organized religions. Doesnt mean I do not still not have faith or believe in something higher than myself for I do. So do not think agnostic fits me do you?


Jane Bovary profile image

Jane Bovary 6 years ago from The Fatal Shore

Hi Ben,

Arthur only the likes the Catholic Church because of the dresses.

You and I don't seem to think that differently about a lot of things Ben, except you have taken that extra step forward into faith and I'm not prepared to. I don't have your optimism either because even if I could believe in a Great Spirit, I don't think whatever that is could be wholly good, [or bad] or even necessarily concerned with us down here at all.

But you explain your belief very well...beautifully actually, and in the end we have to, as you say, allow for lassitude because as we said before..no-one really knows.


Mike Lickteig profile image

Mike Lickteig 6 years ago from Lawrence KS USA

Ben, both your hub and your response to Arthur Windermere were very well thought-out and presented. It was clear that your article wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to something that happened on the way to the grocery store today, but is quite well considered. I am comfortable with my beliefs in God (or whatever name we choose to use for a supreme being), but like you I am sometimes amazed at the rigidity of belief at either end of the spectrum. Both the "God doesn't exist because you can't prove to me that God does exist" and the "I feel sorry for you because one day you will learn I was right all along about God, and you will be sorry then" perspectives puzzle me. As I said, I'm comfortable with where I am at these days, and usually refrain from spirited debate on the issue.

I commend you for putting yourself out there on this--it is a far better read than "buy bubble-wrap online today" or some such thing (with apologies to anyone who may have actually written such a hub). While it may surely leave you open to differences of opinion, your own perspective is sufficiently well-considered that it should make for interesting comments down the road.

Thanks for a thought-provoking read, my friend.

Mike


Arthur Windermere profile image

Arthur Windermere 6 years ago

Hi Ben,

What's cavalier is telling people why they believe what they believe. Sort of like when atheists claim those who believe in God only do so because they're afraid of the unknown, can't accept responsibility for their lives, etc.. People don't usually come to their beliefs so lightly, so one wouldn't want to treat them lightly. The only way to figure out why people believe what they do is to ask or wait until they write a nice article on hubpages. Speaking of which, I'll write a hub for you about what atheists "believe." Don't want to clutter up your comments.

Re: Design

You express it very well yourself.

The first line of Leibniz's Discourse on Metaphysics: "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Nobody has ever satisfactorily answered that question, let alone why the something that exists is this and not something much less organized. All the other arguments have conceptual flaws. But the argument from design is based purely on the facts that there's all this elegant stuff and there's no good reason (scientifically speaking) why it should be there rather than nothing at all. Getting from the design argument to the dogma of any particular religion would take mental gymnastics I can't even fathom.

Definitely thought-provoking stuff, Ben. Thanks for taking the time to brave the sea of atheists, zealots, wizards, kangaroos, etc. and to let your heart hang out. It was a pleasure to see into your head.

P.S. Jane knows me too well. I'd be hot stuff in a cassock.


Jane Bovary profile image

Jane Bovary 6 years ago from The Fatal Shore

Arthur,

Why should there be something, including God, rather than nothing?


Arthur Windermere profile image

Arthur Windermere 6 years ago

JB,

I don't know. There just is. That's why I think the design argument is the best. I have no idea how to answer it. Or maybe you were making a subtler point I didn't get.


Jane Bovary profile image

Jane Bovary 6 years ago from The Fatal Shore

I'm saying it's a regressive argument, for if you're going to ask why should there be something? You may just as well ask why should there be God?


Arthur Windermere profile image

Arthur Windermere 6 years ago

Good point. I suppose a theist or deist would claim that there's a fundamental difference between the universe and a creative source. Where the question, "Where is there something rather than nothing?" posits God as an answer, there is no question for which the universe is the answer. This gives God a greater ontological stability in light of this argument than is granted the universe.

But I'm not a deist, so I don't know. We'll have to wait for The Zoltak to come to our rescue.


SteveoMc profile image

SteveoMc 6 years ago from Pacific NorthWest

My first reaction to this is, "Oh My God!" Which in a way provides me with a place to start in looking at my beliefs, although I prefer to think of "God" more as a higher power. I think this allows the spirit to be personal.

Ben, you are an amazing writer. I wanted to read every word in your hub. No skimming here. And, thank you for enlightening me on so many big words. Thanks to you, I had to see if I could figure out the difference between panentheism and pantheism. It took some research and some thinking, but I think I have a inkling of the difference now.

Believe me, I think I see the world in a similar fashion to your views. To me this was a thoughtful, intriguing, and refreshing glimpse of the man who wrote this treatise. And also believe me when I say, I have come to admire you in a very short time.

Wonderful thought provoking hub and comments.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

JannyC!!! Good to see you. There are more agnostically-inclined writers here who would probably give you a better sense of the meaning than myself, but from where I sit I would say you are more of the believer's type than anything else. Both Jane Bovary and Arthur Windemere have excellent hub/articles on similar topics that are all worth reading if you want to know more about those types of philosophies!

Sorry I've been slow to respond to everyone here! I am on it, but have a lot of irons in the fire right now. I'm very flattered at all the comments, and thoughtful/insightful dialogue, I need some digestion and dictionary time!


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Jane, thank you for your kind observations and your enthusiastic rhetoric with Mr. Windermere, I feel that I am learning alot. I have had lots of doubt in my past about this spiritual walk that I am on and how it fits. What I enjoy about Arthur's take is that he includes possibilities, unexplainable potentials I guess, that I wouldn't expect from what I figured is an atheist. But this business seems to lean on judgment which is only a few steps away from condemnation and certainly not what I've been trying to do.

"I don't have your optimism either because even if I could believe in a Great Spirit, I don't think whatever that is could be wholly good, [or bad] or even necessarily concerned with us down here at all."

I can tell in between your syllables Jane that you must have some optimism albeit a guarded version. This connection I feel with the great spirit (note the lack of capitalization) is one that struggles like a grape vine to get past human frailties and failings. Defining God seems to me a fools game akin to playing with hand-grenades. But in the same breath I can't deny where the roots of my thoughts spring from, where the reactions to life take my mind, or what strikes me as a lucid reflection of a sentient Spirit in the universe. Logic tends to break down when I analyze this subject and that's where I lean towards poetry, but this will hardly satisfy a philosopher.

I look forward to writing more about your comments and getting to Mr. AW's soon too, but alas it's time to head off to one of those pesky limited temporal jobs I have to do, to help keep the lights on around here.

Thanks again for the kind comments, and for the dresses joke, funny stuff, made me laugh loudly.


Momma Mia profile image

Momma Mia 6 years ago from North Carolina

Fantastic Hub Ben!! Science really is just changing the catlyst to bring on a new reaction.........mostly by mere accident. The Spirit world has more to do with science than most believe.....and to use what humans have invented to utilize it to manifest and show their existence... In other words we have more proof than ever and some choose to turn their heads...in my opinion......to not have to address their spirituality ...you know how when someone has made their mind up...they hate to change it...ha ha and have to admit they were wrong...LOL.. but the scenerio could be that they feel better than ever and find new places thier mind has never allowed them to go!! O well thanks to you and people like you...........there is proof!

WISHING U WELL

Mia


Tammy Lochmann profile image

Tammy Lochmann 6 years ago

I am posting a link to Shalini Kagal's hub which by coincidence I read right before I read this one. It's a little blurb and a video that she found with the Dali Lama in it. Take a look. It's very interesting. I really enjoyed your story and really enjoyed the discourse following. Keep up the great work. I need to be more creative I have been really lazy lately. Take care. Tammy

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Best-R


Pamela99 profile image

Pamela99 6 years ago from United States

Ben, I very much enjoyed your hub. It was very interesting and I agree with you.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Mike: Thanks for your comment, I feel much the same way with you, in my comfort level with my spirit and The Great Spirit. I bumped into one of Arthur's articles where the back and fourth was really intense and didn't think mine would be such a hot potato but here it is. Funny to read your bubble wrap comment, when I think back to my occasional Rolex articles the materialism of the thing isn't exactly the most noble but made for good exercise. Thanks for your accolade bud!

Ben


slock62 profile image

slock62 6 years ago from Florida

I would like to recommend that you visit http:www.shiftinaction.com and search David Hawkins." How to tell truth instantly from falsehood" He will truly blow your preconcieved ideas out of the water. Enjoy slock62


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thanks SteveO! I was trying my best to convey both my beliefs and my misunderstanding of others! Seems like over the years I've begun to realize that in order to understand somethings, you have to put yourself in the line of fire! Thank you for the kind compliments and for revealing your own beliefs. I think much of the world feels this way, and that we're all basically good, but most of the mouthpieces for major organizations mobilize us against one another! Those same people probably have never enjoyed the finer things in life, like a couple a cans of beer and a bonfire, now that will bring out the Great Spirit in anyone I think!


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Momma Mia! Thank you for sharing your kind analogy regarding religion and science. It is very difficult for people to bend their beliefs I agree with you. Interestingly, I don't believe this is what the Great Spirit intended at all for those on the spiritual path. I believe our options are left open to for reasons of freedom and life.


Zsuzsy Bee profile image

Zsuzsy Bee 6 years ago from Ontario/Canada

Ben another excellent hub and interesting read. You have made some very good points.

hope you're well

kindest regards Zsuzsy


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Tammy thanks for the heads-up on the Dalai Lama video and article, I checked out the link you posted above, really great. I like what he had to say about the "best" religion, that whichever makes you a kinder person, whichever religion brings more love into the universe through you, is the best! What an answer! That is the Great Spirit at work.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thank you Pamela for your kind words, it is good to be alive isn't it? Glad we walk on similar paths.


Shalini Kagal profile image

Shalini Kagal 6 years ago from India

What a wonderful hub, Ben! I like the way you put your points across, not judging, not excluding anyone. I too like to believe in energy never getting destroyed. If only the legacy we left behind was the energy of love and peace - like the light of a star in the sky long since gone, but still shining for us!

Thanks so much, dear Tammy for the link :)


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thanks for reading Slock62 and I will soon take up your recommendation!

Ben


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Jenkooya Mizz Szuzy Bee, I am always flattered by your appearance on my articles, thank you for the kind compliment and I wish you too are well and enjoying the spring!

Ben


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thank you so much Shalini, it's difficult to enter into any conversation without any sort of judgment at all, but at least we can try not to condemn people for their different beliefs. Funny how love, peace and the light of distant stars all feel like they go together!? At least it appears that way to me, your reflection into the universe is a good one!


ambikac09 profile image

ambikac09 6 years ago from UK

Waw Ben! Thanks... was wondering about putting to words how overwhelming the presence of a higher spirit is at times. And I stumbled upon this article.Nice to get to read so much and so many different views.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Glad you stumbled upon it ambika, that's the best way in my opinion, better alignment with synchronicity! Thanks for reading!


Petra Vlah profile image

Petra Vlah 6 years ago from Los Angeles

Thank you Ben,

The hub itself as well as the comments are very interesting to read and reflect upon. I am still trying to define my own position as I go back and forth and often find myself in the middle.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thank you Petra glad you have found a middle ground here, there is a lot of room in this place. I hope you are smelling the perfume of spring in a wild place somewhere.

Ben


stars439 profile image

stars439 6 years ago from Louisiana, The Magnolia and Pelican State.

Dear Ben : I like you hub a lot. I like the way you speak truthfully. God Bless You.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Hey stars u rock! Thanks for the root compliment I am honored.

Ben


Storytellersrus profile image

Storytellersrus 6 years ago from Stepping past clutter

I wonder why you challenged the ancients in your dream instead of opening to them? It seems strange to me. Almost as if you did what you complain non-agnostics do, i.e., froze inside your ego. If they show up again, please be more respectful, lol!!! What a gift they could be in your life.

Despite this immediate shock- seriously, I nearly fell off my chair when you wrote that, as I would have been so honored by their visit- I found your fascination with Spirit hopeful.

Thank you for breaking up the monotony of a routine evening. There has to be a message in here for me tonight. I will get it the instant I turn off the computer...


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

I know what you mean Storytellersrus! I think it was because at first they were menacing, something I don't think I conveyed in the article. Thanks for the thoughtful response, I oil paint more than I write in the warmer months sorry for the delay. I hope your connection to the Great Spirit is strong wherever you are!

Ben Zoltak


Kathy T profile image

Kathy T 6 years ago from Boston, MA.

Beautiful Hub, thanks for sharing


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thanks Kathy T! I appreciate your kind words. I'm enjoying this summer with my newborn Klaus Zoltak. Have a great summer!

Ben


ltfawkes profile image

ltfawkes 6 years ago from NE Ohio

Well, now you've gone and done it. You've crafted an excellent, thought-provoking piece, and now here I am experiencing a marked swimming sensation after reading it and all the comments. So much to absorb and distill.

I was struck by your words:

those who define God as a head administrator who arbitrates a set of subjective temporal laws through a group of divine bureaucrats here on earth.

To which I say, "Yeah, buddy." I've come to the conclusion that whenever there's a third party between an individual and his or her search for enlightenment, the third party's ulterior motives and/or hidden agenda (even when of the purest, most altruistic intent) causes taint.

I think it all comes down to a questioning individual sitting in the dark, thinking.

L.T.


Girish1000 profile image

Girish1000 6 years ago from India

If you can expound a little on your views about design I'd be grateful. I know Stephen Hawking has an eloquent take on it. I'm not sure how I feel about anything related to traditional religious notions of "God's design", I'm not exactly of the "clockmaker" philosophy either, I'm afraid I'm one expansive pool of intuition when it comes to the Great Spirit.


cheaptrick profile image

cheaptrick 6 years ago from the bridge of sighs

Hi Ben.Sorry so long since my last visit but I've been very busy.Kierkegaard and Aquinas Spent there lives searching for proof and both ended up with the same conclusion...The Leap of Faith.I don't know where the conviction resides in some of us to take that leap but I don't believe our salvation depends on it.I am a simple man and I tend to simplify so It makes sense to me.If there really is a judgement It must be fair to all people regardless of mental,emotional.finacial,charismatic,pious,presences.I really believe it will come in the form of a simple three word question."Were You Trying"...The equalising simplicity that goes strait threw intellectual emotional self justification.I've met people who could barely articulate that were head and shoulders above the folks around them judged by that simple question.I'm not sure if this quote is in the new testament but I think it is"It was the Simplicity of what he Taught that made them Stumble".I believe that the message from the Great men threw out history has been"Just Believe and what ever you Believe Will manifest".Thanks for this,it touched me in the deepest way.I love listening to all of you big brained people discuss this subject.

Dean


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

L.T. I enjoyed your turn of phrase: sitting in the dark thinking.

It does seem to be that is what it all comes down too often times doesn't it? I am glad you enjoyed this piece, I apologize for taking so long to respond, been putting in a lot of hours at the day job. I look back on my writing here and realize maybe I have more to offer the world than in my writing and art, especially among things spiritual. But alas there are bills to pay and so I am off to work.

Hi ho!

Ben


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Girish1000: the word design in the realm of the Great Spirit is full of thorny arguments isn't it? It conjures up the image of a gray bearded old man picking at the universe with jewelers tools. But in some ways I think, especially as an artist and writer, that there is something to it. When we design as humans we create things that others recognize were created. It's in this way, I believe, that I see the universe as held in the hands of the Great Spirit. From an Enlightenment point of view the debate has been whether the Great Spirit designed the universe then stepped away completely, or whether or not the Great Spirit occasionally intervenes.

My belief in some ways parallels the Hindu in a panantheistic way. The Spirit is in everything. The problem for many with that of course, is that some individuals want to hate and in order to indulge in that conviction, they need parts of the universe to be without the Spirit. But the Great Spirit is more forgiving than us mere mortals. The Great Spirit is no creature but is the wellspring of us all.

I hope that lends some more light to your inquiry!

Best,

Ben


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Dean: thanks for the big brained addition to my dusty book shelf of an ode here. Your last post is a hub for crying out loud! You are one of the small group of writers here that I reread to better understand and just for the shear joy of your words.

Point:

"I don't know where the conviction resides in some of us to take that leap but I don't believe our salvation depends on it."

I agree positively. Along with all of the other so called caveats you mentioned too. Forgiveness from the Great Spirit is so much bigger than I can get my mind around. My conviction or leap lies mostly between my heart and eyes. It reminds me of the white man who asked the American Indian if he was mad they called him Indian because Columbus mistakenly thought he found a route to India wherein the Native American replied: I'm just glad he wasn't searching for Turkey.

The philosophers choice of designations is an interesting one, a leap is a poignant visceral experience. Food for thought my friend.

Best!

Ben


Money Glitch profile image

Money Glitch 6 years ago from Texas

Delightful reading,like many others I've pondered the same thoughts. I think it is the "human" within us that wants everything to be tangible and predictable. Never had a dream about it though, thanks for sharing your thoughts and insights about the great spirit. :)


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thanks MG, your comment comes in at just the right time! Getting some negative energy from the netherworld today, so I really appreciate your timely gratitude. I hope you walk with the Great Spirit today.

Warmly,

Ben


Eiddwen profile image

Eiddwen 6 years ago from Wales

Brilliant hub Ben. I was gripped until the end. Thanks for sharing. Take care.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 6 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thank you kindly Eiddwen! In many ways, as I hear lots of so-called survivalists say, nature is neither against us or for us. But I believe, in my heart, that nature does have a positive inclination, for all us living creatures.


Dolores Monet profile image

Dolores Monet 5 years ago from East Coast, United States

Ben - once I spent some small time in the desert - the Anza Borrego in southern CA. Sat out on a boulder in the most total silence I have ever (not) heard. I noticed how this beautiful high desert could not have been more perfectly designed by the most brilliant landscape architect in the world. I noticed how insignificant I was in the grand scheme of things and was filled with a gush of love and appreciation for all creation. While I have always believed in God, that was a moment of spiritual affirmation.

Yet another time, I opened my car door and got a huge whiff of the PA Dutch hot pretzels that were in the car. The thought burst "God is in the pretzels." That thought pops into my head quite often. It's my mantra.


Niteriter profile image

Niteriter 5 years ago from Canada

Recognition of and reverence for Gichi-Manidoo had been a part of North American life many winters before the Europeans arrived with their Bibles and rifles.

When their rifles finally fell silent, the Europeans were mystified that there was nothing in their Bibles to explain the Gichi-ojichaag that continued to invigorate and inspire Gichi-Manidoo's few surviving followers.

And science has not yet found an answer for the Gichi-ojichaag of Ben Zoltak that inspired this Hub.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 5 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Mrs. Monet silence really is something to be valued isn't it? And along the same lines, for some reason I associate it with the spiritual too. I think the natural forces of the earth and universe, are tightly connected to our own biologiy, we appear to be active instruments in it all. As for your sublime pretzel experience, sometimes the mundane items in my life bring out those same feelings about God.

Thank you Dolores, always a pleasure.

Ben


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 5 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Niteriter thank you so much for recognizing my offering to the Great Spirit. You continue to guide me towards Gichi-Manidoo and I am honored that you find I am worthy of exploring the Spirits path. Soon I have to find more about Gichi-ojichaag!

Peace and love brother,

Ben


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 5 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thanks again Niteriter, you are always a welcome member in the Zoltak lodge mon frere.

For you and your connection to Gitchi Mantitou too...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manitou

Nastrovia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ben


lovetherain profile image

lovetherain 5 years ago from Untited States

I have studied this in depth, so I know ecactly where you're coming from. the most amazing thing I've discovered, however, is that proff isn't necessary, just faith. that's the whole point.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 5 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thanks lovetherain. I agree and disagree as far as faith goes. For me faith has a role, but proof is a measurement usually reserved for more scientific endeavors, but I believe, if aimed with the proper perception, can allow some room for understanding the Great Spirit.

Thank you for the kind observation.

Ben


ekenzy profile image

ekenzy 5 years ago

nice hub; and really need to know more.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 5 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Gitchi Manitou is easy to find ekenzy, but you have to know your heart and let it open up.

Thanks for reading.

Ben


aravindb1982 profile image

aravindb1982 5 years ago from Puttaparthi, India

Every being is in reality, God. The whole process of life is a game of devolution of God to mineral and evolution of mineral to God via man.

Everyone - you and me included is God. But we do not realize for we are in different stages of evolution. Take the case of the atomic theory. The Bohr's theory of atom is taught in the 6th grade and it works in finding solutions! But once you reach University, you are taught the Quantum theory and Bohr's model is absolutely wrong. Then still, why is Bohr's theory taught? Thats because it is necessary for evolution.

Our concept of God is like that of a professor who is taking us through our grades till we realize that within us too is that professor - just that he/she has not blossomed yet.

So God is a being that has knowledge of its divinity and all of us, who lack this knowledge ( or have it in varying degrees) are pilgrims on the path to God or Truth.

In Christianity, you can see the evolution in Jesus' life too. He began by saying the he was "the messenger of God". Later on He became the "son of God." Finally, He said, "I and my father are one!"


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 5 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

aravindb1982... you clearly have a potent connection the Spirit and I enjoyed your anaylsis of divinity and as you say, our connection in "varying degrees". We really are living proof aren't we?

I also enjoyed your spiritual evolution take, something I have heard before, but you certainly expressed it eloquently.

Lots of love,

Ben


Druid Dude profile image

Druid Dude 4 years ago from West Coast

Great hub. I am impressed. I have followed the Great Spitit for three decades. The Medicine Dream is the path.


Ben Zoltak profile image

Ben Zoltak 4 years ago from Lake Mills, Jefferson County, Wisconsin USA Author

Thanks Druid Dude, thank you for your kind words. Some people may mock others' for their beliefs, but to me, it's a feeling in my heart.

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