Quran (koran) burning ceremony in Florida

Is this how you want to be known?

Sad day for Christians

That above picture looks like something that would come from Hitlers Germany or a painting of the Middle ages, but no that is modern day America, aren't you proud of yourselves America? This makes me ashamed to know that I fought and defended some ones rights to do this, I don't care what book it is, we as people Christians, Jews or Muslims should be above this.

"The Dove World Outreach Center says it is hosting the event to remember 9/11 victims and take a stand against Islam. With promotions on its website and Facebook page, it invites Christians to burn the Muslim holy book at the church from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m."

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-07-29/us/florida.burn.quran.day_1_american-muslims-religion-cair-spokesman-ibrahim-hooper?_s=PM:US

"We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Pastor Terry Jones


Sadly Pastor Terry Jones, is taking his congregation back to the days in the dark ages when burning of things they do not agree with was an accepted way of life. Talk about leading people to hell. This is just a sad ploy and poorly planed revenge attack for Islam building a Mosque at ground zero.

The "evil people" Mister Jones is talking about represents a whopping 3% of Muslims. I will not drop to his level and compare the violence of the Christian church through out the ages done in the name of Jesus. But I will ask you Christians is that who you want to be compared to? The small percentage of Christians who use violence and suicide to find God? Having been a Christian longer than a Muslim I can answer that for you, no it is not.

Let us talk a little about Christianity and its beliefs. If my memory serves me correctly Jesus (pbuh) tells us not spread hatred, and to be accepting and tolerant of everyone. He also tells us not to judge and to love one another even those lost souls.

"Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?" Romans 2:4

"May the LORD judge between you and me. And may the LORD avenge the wrongs you have done to me, but my hand will not touch you" 1 Samuel 24:12

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged." Matthew 7:1

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Luke 6:37

I could go on and on and on and on. Sadly for Mr. Jones congregation he is to busy preaching hate, lies and discontent to focus on what the Bible says. Also shown by his lack of knowledge and experience of Islam, the Qur'an is not our "HOLY" book as nothing is Holy but God. Also evident in his ignorance is the fact that he only wants to burn the Qur'an. If he wanted to burn Islams "holy texts" then he needs to burn the Bible and Torah as well. Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) tells us we should read all of these books as they are all from Allah.

Another quote from the great Mr. Jones about Islam being proven violent again and again, I will not go into the prof of Christian violence, shows his lack of knowledge on Islam. To save my self from being redundant feel free to read this hub by myself,

http://hubpages.com/hub/What-Islam-says-about-loving-thy-neighbor

where you will hopefully learn the truth about Islams "Violence". I have no doubt that Mr. Terry quotes some of those false verses from the Qur'an to his followers that can be found all over the internet. On sites such as,faithfreedom.org, nowscape.com and wvinter.net along with many many more such sites. When in fact the NOBLE Qur'an teaches us to accept all other religions and to be understanding and patient. The Qur'an also says to take one life is like killing all of mankind. As you will see in these verses;

"Whoso slays a soul not to retaliate for a soul slain, nor for corruption done in the land, should be as if he had slain mankind altogether." (5:32)

" Islam has laid down the injunction: There should be no coercion in the matter of faith." (2:256) In other words we are not going to cut your head off for being non-Muslim

You can find also in this hub; http://hubpages.com/hub/Human-rights-in-Islam-What-you-dont-but-should-know-about-Islam

The verses that I have listed above. Sadly for Mr, Jones he is guilty of what many Americans are, they put all their faith in the media instead of Knowledge, Wisdom and most importantly God. It is also apparent that Terry has no idea of the beginnings of Islam and our actual beliefs. This man is a out of touch nut, who has no business running a church. Any Christian who reads this, ask your self honestly, do you think Jesus would stand beside you while you burned a Qur'an with this church.

Now to be honest, sure there are people who call them selves Muslim and do things in the name of Allah that are actually the work of the Devil, same as their are Christians who do work in the name of Jesus and it is the work of the Devil. The sad fact is you will find violence in every religion throughout history. Why because Satan and evil knows that people will sometimes blindly follow the actions of those who say it is in God's name and not question the acts. Also it is a primal instinct for people to fear that which they do not know.

What happens to most people when they are afraid, they strike out with violence in what they believe is justified self defense. Is it justified? Sure in some cases it is, but we must learn to recognize those special situations and not try to justify all actions by this. When these actions are viewed by extremist such as Mr. Jones they are not justified, just as those men in who hijacked the planes 9 years ago. No matter who's name it is done in.

Let us ask our selves another question. Let me start by saying I am a disabled veteran, and I served the US proudly. But honestly, if some one came to our country and said our way of life is wrong and we need to change, and here to help you along the way we are going to destroy the vast majority of your infrastructure and kill your wives and your children and your holy men, but don't worry you will thank us later. What do you honestly believe would be the reactions of most Americans. We would not stand for it, and we would fight to our last person to resist it. Being the "Good Guy" is only a point of view. And believe it or not but America is not always right. Just look through our history of how our government treats its own people and it is very much like Sadam's regime. But they wont put that in our history books will they.

But too all of Mr, Jones followers and Supporters. I will be praying for you, and to all those Christians who disagree with this man, fear not I am not going to judge you based on what 3% of all Christians do. and I'm not doing it because I think I am better than you. But I'm doing it because that is what the Qur'an and the Bible tell me to do. Perhaps you might rethink your point of view after some education and research that goes a little beyond the US ran media. Thank you all and Have a blessed day.

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Comments 50 comments

Freya Cesare profile image

Freya Cesare 6 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

Terry Jones proudly said he knew nothing about Islam and never read Al Qur'an but he judge all Muslim from terrorist acts. 3% Muslim is terrorist, I won't go further to dark era of church, but more than 3% Christian are rapist, killer and many type of criminals, including terrorist and drug dealer. Wow! Should we burn bible too? I don't think so. It will make Muslim as low as Terry Jones; stupid ignorant like he really is. What Terry Jones did simply only threw shit into Christian's face if they knew better.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Yes he is definitely not how Christians want to be viewed I'm sure. We can find many examples in the modern church, where a lot more than 3% do unspeakable acts. But as I said I dont want to go into that and stoop to Terry's level.

Let the man burn all the Qur'an he wishes. It will not have any more effect on Islam than a single gnat in a crowd of 1.5 billion people.

I was mad when I first heard about this, but as I wrote this hub and prayed about it, I was no longer mad. Let this man do as he wishes, Vengeance is for Allah. And all this shows is his ignorance about not only Islam but his own religion. His hate and malcontent, is strongly warned against in our bible. but let him have his day, and I pray that all Muslims see this in the same light I do. Do not let this man anger you, it is what he wants. He wants some Muslims to attack him when he does this so he can say "see I told you". But Allah is most merciful and oft forgiving we should be as well. Allah will deal with this problem in his way. Let Allah have his vengeance.


habib 6 years ago

shame on the people who planned this activity


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Want to tell Terry what you think? Go to the link below.

http://www.doveworld.org/contact


Micky Dee profile image

Micky Dee 6 years ago

It gets a little crazy when you live through two terms of Satan...oops, Bush in the White House, Clinton before that fiasco, I could write a hub in this comment box about Christians who have "fallen short" and led folks to hell. I am "unattached" in my religion. All spiritual people need to unite on common ground. That common ground has to be the Golden Rule. Every religion must take up THAT cross. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I believe in Jesus. That is His law. If we are not to serve a benevolent God, I see no point. We are to lift all people up. That is the law above laws. Our entire society, and government is corrupt for failing to obey this simple law. The earth is in ruins because of the abandonment of this law. But here are two hubs reflecting the less than holy:

http://hubpages.com/hub/False-Prophets-False-Relig...

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Where-Does


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Great point Micky. You know what drove me away from God so many times, and eventually to Islam was stuff like this book burning. But more so was the hypocrites and the "holier than thou" attitudes you get from weekend Christians. And Muslims are guilty of this too, they use God for a status symbol and for personal gain, but when they are outside of the church they live very sick and twisted lives. Also this mentality that no matter what you do after baptism you are going to heaven. So much of this just boils down to the "holier than thou" attitudes. Anyways I will stop ranting now. I don't mean to offend anyone this is just my 26 years of experience with Christianity was not pleasant experience. And in that time I experienced almost every denomination and church you can imagine, and it was the same everywhere. But in my experience I haven't found that in Islam.

But yes I agree with you, you can ask Freya my views on Islam are not the same as the average muslim. But Christianity Judaism and Islam are the same religion with the same God, and prophets for the most part, though Islam is the only one that uses all 3 Texts, the bible has the Torah in it but it is a diluted copy at least in the modern bible it is. Okay I'm done ranting, I could go on and on and on and on.

Thanks for the comment.


Micky Dee profile image

Micky Dee 6 years ago

You're right sir and we certainly should be able to humbly approach God. If one avenue doesn't work we still have to see God and truth. When truth is sacrificed the path is obscured. I don't believe in destruction. Some actions like this can only, more firmly, plant the feet in the convictions. God bless!


badz 6 years ago

this man burning the book of god, the holy quran is not a priest he is a criminal. I wonder why the american government is not aresting him, hes not a hero hes a racist and extrimenist and being this is an offence of law. Burning the quran is burning islam. This offence will bring more hatred then pease. Please the people of god we are all believers of the same god and this is the final holy book it mentions jesus, moses and least profit muhamad we love these holy profits let us all be together and love each other. The man burning the quran wil burn in hell forever let us curse hes deeds.


Sa`ge profile image

Sa`ge 6 years ago from Barefoot Island

let God take care of this man! This deed was an abomination to all people in the world by taking us all back to the dark ages! Let God have this man! Amen!


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Yes Sa'ge you are right. As I said in my first Comment vengeance belongs to God. And I pray for all my muslim brothers and sisters, and all others who oppose this man, that it doesn't spark some physical retaliation of any kind. but sadly some tempers will flare beyond control. And with this mans hate crime I dont think I can blame them but I really pray they dont.

And have no doubt this is a hate crime. There is a website I wont name but they list the attacks of Muslim on the US vs the US attacks of Muslims. You can check the media and see they are largely slanting the truth in their favor. But lets see if they list this attack on Muslims. I doubt they will as they have left out several million others.

But really it is time to stop keeping score and find a way to fix the problem. the place to start is the US medias portrayal of Islam, talk about slanting facts. As long as our government pushes for us to fear terrorist the media will portray Islam by the 3% of us that are bad. 3% the other 97% of us have to face the day knowing how the vast majority of America views us. And not to brag but if that isn't bravery I don't know what is.


T A Raza 6 years ago

I dont give much importance of pastor Terry Jones of his intention of torching of copies of Quran. Point of concern is US officials calling it an "un-American" act instead of calling it "un-Christian" act which suggests Christianity has lost its battle & for Americans, Abraham Lincoln who gave them the "unlimited freedom" of everything remains their prophet instead of Jesus Christ (PBUH) who is the prophet of love & peace for all 3 religions of Abrahamic traditions. American laws permit a sick-minded pastor to burn Holy Book of 1.5 billions people in his premises. Its simply disgusting & shameful


yasmeen 6 years ago

well aren't they following in the footsteps of hitler?


badz 6 years ago

as i mentioned yesterday why are the american government not aresting him yet. Its a crime why the saudi king dont say anithing


Rev. Akins profile image

Rev. Akins 6 years ago from Tucson, AZ

As a minister of a protestant faith, I am just sad by this whole event. I know that now people all over the world will use this one man to group all ministers and all Christians in the same group. I wish some day a normal Christian and a normal Muslim could be interviewed and shown world wide so people can understand that most in both groups are good people, who serve others and want people to be led to God. It is really sad. I like your explanation as well, many great points and I thank you for the information.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Good point T A Raza. It is most certainly an anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-peace, and every thing good that we hold dearest, and pro-hate, pro-evil, and every thing we God fearing people of all religions struggle to get rid of in our lives. This says so much about his church and his followers and none of that said is good.

Yasmeen,

yes it would seem they are recycling some Hitler tactics. The more I think about it, the more and more baffled I become. I mean honestly burning a book? What do you really hope to accomplish? in burning any book, it is just so- I don't know what it is but it isn't good. And this act hasn't just offended Muslims.

The University I attend, in one of my classes yesterday a teacher asked the class what we thought about it. I was the only Muslim in my class, and I would say that almost the entire class was offended by this, some even more than myself. Some Christians are appalled by this act done in the name of Jesus(pbuh). And I know how they feel when unspeakable acts are done in the name of Islam 97% of Muslims are appalled by those acts also.

Badz,

you are right. I would think our authorities would do more about it. In the US we have free speech which is protected by our constitution, and free speech covers some acts and a few other things not just vocal speech. Now that being said;

There are exceptions to this protection, and they include but are not limited to; speech that incites violence, and or calls for the harm of any group, race, sex, religion creed or what have you. Maybe the way the church has construed this act it falls in the protective rights of the constitution. It is how ever hate speech, but so is what the KKK and neo-Nazis do, and their right to congregate are usually upheld and protected with some exceptions.

Lets go on the premises that it is protected. At what cost do we stop such acts? I certainly is not worth a violent response, (personally I think that is what he wants so he can come out as a martyr and say see I told you so.) Yes emotions run very deep on this topic from both Muslims and Christians that are against this man. But as my self and others have said, let Allah have His vengeance, and I pray that all stricken by this tragedy are soothed by God's Love and Mercy and can hold their rage and express it in a more appropriate manner. Why should we stoop to his level and become what he wants us to be? He will get his Just punishment, in this life or the next as Allah sees fit.

As a side note, I emailed the Church with the link I posted above to contact them. I doubt very seriously Terry will get the email or even read it, so I addressed it to the person that would be reading it. I was very respectful and just posted some links so they could learn the truth of Islam and Christianity and told them to really look at the man they follow. Maybe it was in vain but if it can reach one person, just one in his church (if it can even be called that) then have we not done something good? oh and BTW no one has responded, I really didn't think they would, but if some one does I will post the response on here.

I encourage every one to click that link and send them an email.

Salam and God bless everyone, no matter what your religion is.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Thanks Rev. Akin. and I agree with you 100%. This man has offended many people from all walks of life. But you know maybe this is what we need to start bringing us closer together, no credit do to this man and his acts, but i think you get my point.

Already on this hub and at least one other we see Christians and Muslims agreeing on so many issues brought up by this "act". Maybe with a little luck and a whole lot of influence from God, we can make some lasting good come from this no matter how minute it maybe.

Thanks for the comment. And Just in case I didn't make it clear in the hub, I know I used the word christian and a few other statements but it was not my intent to lump you all in with this nut job, the only place he should be allowed to preach is in the booby hatch.LOL. God bless.


KKalmes profile image

KKalmes 6 years ago from Chicago, Illinois

Hello PT7886, I am standing and saluting you... you are my new hero... thank you for common sense, respectful discourse, insightful and generous sharing of your knowledge, for your service to America.

You can be proud to be an American because you represent the pride we all want for ourselves and America.

thumbs up and awesome because we don't have an excellent rating.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Thanks KK. I dont know if I'm a hero but thanks for stroking the ego anyways. LOL.

Really most Americans take for granted the liberties they enjoy daily, they scream about their rights as Americans but then they do nothing but trample the rights of others first chance they get. I would say its because they have never had to "pay" any price for those liberties. Im not trying to be self righteous, just be realistic.

Anyways Im just ranting now off my own topic. Certain things just burn me up. But again thanks and God bless.


Springboard profile image

Springboard 6 years ago from Wisconsin

I am against the burning of the Quran for the very same reason I am against the building of the Mosque so close to Ground Zero. Each has the right to do what they want to do under the law. Neither are a prudent exercise of those rights.


pcn 6 years ago

Please, all this righteous indignation. Does no one think that all these people calling for violence and death to Americans over the burning of a book, holy or not, pretty much makes his case? Or are we supposed to ignore that HUGE disconnect?


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Springboard, there is no ground zero mosque. Sorry to burst your bubble but like everything its just hyped up news. Here read this hub. Thank you for your comment though. I think my comment sounds a little condescending but I really don't mean it to be.

http://hubpages.com/politics/No-Ground-Zero-Mosque

Pcn you make a very good point. I would go out on a limb and say your not religious but I dont want to make assumptions. The fact is that people litteraly go nuts over religion. Just look at some of the religious debate forum. But that on top of the fact that our nation is directly responsible for killing MILLIONS of completely Innocent WOMEN and CHILDREN, and what do you think you would feel?

I would bet a lot of spite and discontent. Does that justify the actions of Killing Americans? no it doesn't but it does justify their spite in my opinion any ways.

Though no it is not every Americans fault this happened, but many of these people think that Americans have more power over our government then we actually do. A lot of them are under the impression the American people could have stopped this. Either way, regardless of that fact, these people and Muslims around the world have a right to be pissed for what the US has done to us. Even if they haven't killed any of my family they have still taken my religion and ran it through the mud to justify some of their killings of women and children to the american public. They use the media to keep us Americans scared and out of touch with reality and it works. But for those of us who know the truth it really sucks on a level i can not begin to describe. Again it doesn't make their actions Justified but it does make them understandable.

Try putting the shoe on the other foot pcn, try seeing it thru the eyes of some one whose entire family was killed by people claiming to bring then a better chance at life.

I was a US solider and I love this country, but their spite is understandable when viewed from their standing point. and its almost laughable to me that Americans can't see that. But its simply due to our delusional concept of superiority and complacency.


pcn 6 years ago

Pintails7886, I am impressed with your response. I have limited time today but will come back later to read more. I would actually consider myself religous, Christian, and very conservative. I'm not sure of the source, but I do try to understand "the other side" in most religous debates. If I saw Bibles being burned I would be sad and concerned, possibly get angry, but I dont think I would want to kill anyone. For me, I understand that although the Bible is the word of God, it is only the Word when it is read and understood, not when it is merely words on a page with a leather cover. It is disrespectful to burn someone else's holy book, without a doubt. And I can not win someone else's heart or mind by offending them. But as opposed to what I read and hear from people trying to present Islam as a peacefull religion, the "Kill Americans" cries are much louder and more convincing of the opposition's point of view. I can see why other countries could dislike America, but for whatever those reasons, those dislikes can't be based on a dislike for Christianity, if those people are honest.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Good point, and thanks for the comment. Feel free to express your opinion any time here.

I too consider my self to be conservative and staunch Republican, I may have changed my religion but I haven't changed my political views. And I'm sick of these out of touch idiots saying Obama is Muslim, hes not and we don't want him. They just want something else to accuse him and Islam of, sorry thats off subject but its the truth. The only reason you hear those cries is because that is the only ones the Media shows us. I've said this a thousand times and I will say it a thousand more, the Islam the American media portrays represents roughly 3% of Islam. I also say this to Christians a lot and I'm gonna say it again; Imagine if the media focused on Christianity, and showed the public only the worse 3% of your religion? They perverted it and twisted it to the point that it is only recognized as Christianity in name? As you said before you would be mad, sad and generally upset. Thinking about it is one thing. Trying to see some ones point of view is a noble thing and never doubt that, but the only way you could ever truly understand is to experience it, because there is just no way to know until it actually happens to you. Again I'm not trying to condescend I don't know either and I hope I never do.

Now maybe hub pages isn't a big enough source if you will, but as you can see from Muslim responses on this hub and another bye Hal I will provide a link below in case you haven't yet come across it, the majority of Muslims are not calling for violence against this man or any other for that reason.

There are unreasonable people in every religion. And to be honest, no offence intended, but I don't think either one of us can truly understand what it must feel like for a lot of those people. Perhaps they have not all been effected as much as some but literally Millions of Muslim families have been destroyed by a country promising them a better life. Again I love my country, but I could only imagine how F'ed that is, and how violated these people must feel. And even if I had the best imagination in the world, it still couldn't do justice to the feelings this would actually cause.

Here is the link I promised. And as you can read from Badz comment, it does show a little of what I said before, that most people who are not american think we have more control of the government than we actually do. Maybe 100 or even 75 years ago we had that sort of control. But now we are just dumbed down News Junkies, who know how to make a lot of noise and accomplish nothing. There are fewer and fewer truth seekers in this nation. And I blame it on MTV and Americans need to devote their souls to movie actors. They cling to their every utterance like its a treasure, and follow them blindly over the cliff and feel good about it. It sickens me to no end. People want their lives to emulate the trash they see on the boob tube. Maybe death would be a gift for those people, but who am I to judge or guide their choices? I don't condone the killing of any people that was just some dark humor.

http://hubpages.com/hub/The-12-Top-Reasons-To-Burn...


pcn 6 years ago

The argument that people hate Christians for what they have done is not valid. This is not the United States of Christians. Yes, a majority may claim Christianity, but it is not a state religion. Now think about the rest of the world, and where true persecution occurs. Laos, Afghanistan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, the list could go on and on. Now, list one country with a Christian majority where Muslims are persecuted, only for being Muslims.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

The United States Have you ever seen the news? It happens every day. My point wasn't about the United states of Christians. Most of the ranting you hear on TV it about America. Either way Hyped up media crap. The vast vast majority of Muslims have no problem with Christians.

Now you are guilty of the same thing they are. Assuming a governments actions are reflective of the entire nation. And your right why?

And why is that argument not valid. Its still valid for blacks to raise Cain about slavery. Its still okay for the south to hate the north, I know cause I'm one of those people. The point is people hold grudges, and yes Christians are directly responsible for the deaths of many many hundreds of millions. America thinks it okay to use 3% of Islam to be the spokes person for Islam, so now who is hurt because some religious group is using the small majority to portray a religion? Its not right no, but humans are humans and that sums it all up there.

And regardless of the way we know America to be they view us as a Christian nation. Just like we have so many misconceptions about their countries.


pcn 6 years ago

Not even close. And you are a prime example. No one is calling for your death because you converted. When is the last time you heard of a Christian killing a Muslim in America because they converted from Christianity? When have we even seen a single report of a Christian killing a Muslim? Yet in countless countries Christians are terrorized and killed simply for being Christians. Where are the public outcries in this country by American Muslims? Is it on Aljazeera? Some other news outlets? I haven’t seen it. Send me some links, for I truly want to believe that moderates outnumber the radicals. But in the absence of such evidence, eventually, if it walks like a duck, most people figure out that it is a duck.

And no, it is not OK for blacks to raise cain about slavery. It is OK for them to protest and prosecute any grievance they might have against living persons. I am not my great-grandfather, and I do not judge others by the actions of people long dead, no matter their relationship.


Freya Cesare profile image

Freya Cesare 6 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

Hi, MB. It seem you having fun in here. ;)

pcn, hi! Sorry to get between you two. About what you said: "No one is calling for your death because you converted." Ah! I wish that is true! Pintails here already got that threat once, here in HubPages, along with another insults and something similar with that and I am so worry!

Your debates remaining me on one story I read here, in HubPages, a true story which is able to become an example about why some people do sort of things that others never had it crossed in their mind at all.

There is an old man, former Navy, retired one. He spent his time by took care his lawn and turned it into the greatest lawn in the neighbourhood and it is the greatest one, because he got several award for it. This old man really proud of his lawn. He gave his best on this lawn and that is good to filled his retired times.

But there is young man: his neighbour, and this man really had no respect on the old man. He keep said bad things to the old man, but as gentleman as he is, this old man tried to handle this problem carefully. Too bad, some people just didn't understand how to become honourable human. Everyday this young man brought his dog to visit his neighbour's lawn everytime the dog need to do its natural need and he also, did the same, he pee on his neighbour precious lawn and made the lawn become their toilet. 1,2, 3, so many times. The old man tried to set thing right but the insult keep continued, until one day, I believe under psychotic break control; the old man took out his gun and shoot the young man. Died. period. Who should be blame?

Everything happened for reason. Sometimes the reasons is so simple but in so many times it is like monster ball, and when it reaching its limit, it will blew up like volcano eruption.

I am agree with Pintails, please try to look from other people side before you make some judgement. Maybe you will find some wisdom from it.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

"Not even close. And you are a prime example. No one is calling for your death because you converted. When is the last time you heard of a Christian killing a Muslim in "America because they converted from Christianity? When have we even seen a single report of a Christian killing a Muslim? Yet in countless countries Christians are terrorized and killed simply for being Christians. Where are the public outcries in this country by American Muslims?"

Freya is correct, I did receive a death threat on here not this hub but another. I think maybe the science in Islam one, I can't remember it was a year ago or more now.

And if you don't think I have been persecuted for being Muslim, My friend you better think again. I lost most of my family and the vast majority of my friends. I face stares and rude comments daily on my religious beliefs. Persecution is not limited to killing. I face Persecution every time I turn the news on and hear how Muslims are the enemy and we are all evil. The pastor in my former church is one of the worst. He is a great man, but diluted on the subject of his church's superiority.

Remember a couple weeks ago they guy in New York that attacked the cab driver after returning from Afghanistan I believe. Or the Emam killed in Texas before that.

If you want to know that Moderate Muslims out number the radicals, simply check out hubpage, madina.com, facebook, go to any mosque in the US and listen to an Emam on Friday at Juma. Pcn I thought you were an american that sought knowledge, am I wrong? does the media have you fooled also?

Regardless of what you or I may see as wrong or right for other cultures or races to do, some people do think it is okay. Because you or I disagree on a subject doesn't make one of us wrong and the other one right.

It is a fact that with a 5% margin of error either way, that only 3% of Muslims are the radicals you see on the news. Maybe you don't realize this because you have never attended but the violence and actions of the scum claiming to do evil actions in the name of Islam are protested in Juma every Friday, and 5 times a day in every mosque I have attended an many many thousands more.

3% of 1.7 billion is 51 million, thats a lot, but makes 1 billion 490 million Muslims that are not, that number looks like this 1,649,000,000. Now I am going to stoop to your and many others levels lets talk about the number of radical Christians, and the % of them that call for the deaths of Muslims. Which by the way can also be found spewed all over the internet. 9% of Christians are radical, with a 5% margin of error either way. I have seen numbers as high as 13% for Christianity and 7% for Islam but I don't think I believe either is that high. And I hope this doesn't burst your bubble but Christianity is on the decline in America by about 8% a year. While Islam increases by almost double that every year.

American Christians even want an end to the US government and yet you close your eyes to such things, why? You don't want to believe it? The fact is that Radical Christians scurry throughout this world just as Radical Muslims do. What about the radicals that attack abortion clinics around the country and around the world. I'm against abortion but that doesn't mean I'm gonna blow a clinic up.

"We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ. All Christians must know this and prepare, just as Christ commanded," the group's Web site said. "Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment." quote from http://www.datehookup.com/Thread-437565.htm

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2010/March/Ninth-Mem...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article41...

http://www.logosjournal.com/issue_7.1/zucker.htm

Here is a good example of Muslims speaking out against Radical Islam. See they are just as much an enemy to us.

http://www.publicopiniononline.com/ci_16047550?sou...


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

one more link for you pcn. If you dont read any others read this on. I found it to be the most interesting, maybe you will enjoy it also.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100912/ap_on_re_us/us...


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

I take that back pcn if you dont read any other link read this one, its for you too springboard.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anushay-hossain/park...


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

"But in the absence of such evidence, eventually, if it walks like a duck, most people figure out that it is a duck"

The only absence in evidence is your absence to find or want to see it. I'm sorry I got nasty in my last couple of posts, but I thought you to be more reasonable then with the last comment I lost my cool, I'm human thats my only excuse.

Also most people figure its a duck cause they are idiots, geese, loons, coots, And many other birds walk like ducks and even look like ducks, but that doesn't make them a duck. My point being their lack of looking or admitting all the evidence leads them to the easiest conclusion even if it is not correct.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Thank you Morson for your kind words. May Allah bless you also. I know its late but Eid Mubarak. I hope you and your family had a wonderful Ramadan and Eid, may the blessings of Allah find you and those you love in this life and the next, Ameen. Salam my friend.


Roysied AR 6 years ago

Assalamu'alaikum Brother,

Ketahuilah bahwa tindakan yang seperti anda tulis dalam artikel TIDAK akan mengurangi atapun MEMPERKECIL keberadaan umat islam diseluruh dunia.

Yakinlah bahwa ALLAH SWT. yang menjaganya (Al Qur'an ), dan dengan jelas DIA (ALLAH ) yang memeliharanya hingga akhir zaman.

Meskipun ribuan cetakan Qur'an dibakar oleh mereka (Kaum Kafir), maka saat itu juga ALLAH memberikan Rahmat dan hidayah pada ribuan muslim untuk dapat menghapal Alquran ( Hafidz ).Tidak ada satu umat beragamapun yang mampu menghafal kitab sucinya sendiri selain ISLAM, sejauh ini saya tidak pernah mendengar ada umat beragama lain yang mampu menghafal sebanyak 6.666 ayat.

Namun demikian saya pribadi tetap mengutuk keras atas tindakan orang-orang tersebut.

Semoga ALLAH memberikan pencerahan kepada hati mereka untuk melihat bahwa ISLAM adalah Rahmat untuk seluruh Alam, sesuai dengan jati diri Baginda Rosulullah MUHAMMAD SOLALLAHU ALAIHI WASSALLAM, yang diciptakan dan diutus SEBAGAI RAMHATTAN LIL ALLAMIN.

Ok. Brother.... Semog ALLAH senantiasa memberikan Rahmat dan Hidayah serta kekuatan bagi kita semua, Amin.

Meskipun agak telat, kami mengucapakan " MINAL AIDIN WAL FAIDZIN, TAQOBALALLHU MINA WA MINKUM, TAQOBALALLAHU YA KARIM..."


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Wa Alykum Salam brother.

Comment from Roysied (roughly) translated. Forgive my mistakes brother, I do not wish to misspeak on your behalf however my Indonesian is a little rusty, well a lot rusty, non existent in fact.

"Assalamu'alaikum Brother,

Know that your actions such as writing in the article is NOT going to reduce atapun minimize the presence of Muslims around the world.

Be assured that GOD Almighty. who guard it (the Qur'an), and clearly HE (GOD) who take care of them until the end of time.

Although thousands of molds Koran was burned by them (the infidels), then the right then GOD gives grace and guidance to thousands of Muslims to be able to memorize the Qur'an (Hafidz). No one nation beragamapun capable of memorizing scripture itself other than Islam, so far I've never heard of another religious community that is able to memorize as many verses 6666.

However I personally still strongly condemned the actions of these people.

May GOD give enlightenment to their hearts to see that Islam is a mercy for the whole of Nature, in line with the identity of King Rosulullah SOLALLAHU alaihi WASSALLAM MUHAMMAD, who created and sent AS A LIL RAMHATTAN ALLAMIN.

Ok. Brother .... Semog GOD always gives Grace and Guidance and strength for us all, Amen.

Although a bit late, we mengucapakan "Minal Aidin WAL FAIDZIN, WA MINKUM TAQOBALALLHU MINA, Karim TAQOBALALLAHU YES ..." "


pcn 6 years ago

Speaking of "idiots, geese, loons, coots":

(But we all know it's the media's fault, and they are always "isolated" incidents, right?

September 15, 2010 by the Anglican Communion News Service:

The Bishop of Amritsar has called on the President of India Pratibha Devisingh Patil to protect Christians in northern India after a mob burned down the oldest school in Kashmir and also attacked other Christian institutions.

The Church of North India's Rt Revd Pradeep Kumar Samantaroy, wrote that it was "with a heavy heart" that he informed the President of the complete destruction of the Tungmarg Tyndale Biscoe branch school that provided "quality education to five hundred fifty children from one hundred fifty villages around Tangmarg."

The school, managed by the Diocese of Amritsar, had 27 staff and 16 support staff and had been founded in 1996 by Tyndale Biscoe and Mallinson School Educational Society to cater for the economically deprived sectors of the community.

The whole three-storey wooden structure with 26 classrooms, computer labs and a library containing, among other books, copies of the Quran was completely destroyed on Monday after being set on fire by a large mob that marched on the school after hearing reports of a man desecrating the Quran in America. None of the staff were injured; they all managed to escape the blaze.


Freya Cesare profile image

Freya Cesare 6 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

Salam, PB.

I will help with the translation for brother Roysied AR comment a little bit.

"Assalamu'alaikum Brother,

You must know that such action like you had been mentioned inside this article will NOT able to reduce or minimize the presence of Muslims worldwide.

Be assured that GOD Almighty, who guard it (the Qur'an), and clearly HE (GOD) who will take care of them until the end of time.

Although thousands of molds Koran will be burn by them (the infidels), then at that right moment, GOD will give grace and guidance to thousands of Muslims to be able to memorize the Qur'an (Hafidz). No single person from any religion have this capability to memorizing his own scripture other than Islam, so far I've never heard there is another religious community who's able to memorize as many as 6666 verses.

However I personally still condemn the actions of these people.

May GOD give enlightenment to their hearts to see that Islam is a a bless for entire world, in line with the identity of Rosulullah, Muhammad, PBUH , who had been created and sent AS A LIL RAMHATTAN ALLAMIN.

Ok. Brother .... Hopefully GOD always gives Grace and Guidance and strength for us all, Amen.

Although a bit late, we want to said, "MINAL AIDIN WAL FAIDZIN, TAQOBALALLHU MINA WA MINKUM, TAQOBALALLAHU YA KARIM..."

You did translated it very well. Only need little touch. :P. Ah, never thought there will be a time I will sit on your couch as language tutor!


Freya Cesare profile image

Freya Cesare 6 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

Pcn, what are you trying to do? You and I know very well the list still longer than only that! But if you read your history carefully, you will realized your people had longest crime in the world record. Don't look on today's news only, check on that so called dark era of Christianity. Will you still able to proudly said, it is not Christian follower who did this?

I will never blame Bible for what Christian follower did because it is not fair. Beside, I believe there is only some of you are crazy and many of Christians are great person. But I guess, this is not make your sense too? Because you are "Hollier than thou?" so brothers and sister of your faith may do wrong and it is not your community fault, but if follower of another religion do it, it is the whole religion fault? Isn't it really hypocrite?


pcn 6 years ago

Freya, yes, it would be hypocritical if I was to say Christianity was without any violent or abusive history. But I am far more concerned with what is happening today than what has happened in the past. Too many people want to justify what they do today based on something that happened 100's of years in the past, something that had no direct impact on anything going on today. Until I see the majority of people standing up boldly to condem these "isolated" instances I will have a hard time believing that they are not supported by the majority. We all saw how the majority of Christians condemed the burning of a book. Where now are the majority of Muslims condemming acts like this? It didnt even make any of the major news outlets. Again, I really dont care about history. I cant stop the sins of the past, but I, myself, can stand up against those of the present, whether they are committed by Christians or Muslims. I just wish I saw more Muslim condemnation rather than rationalization, or excuses.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

You obviously don't care about the sins of the present either pcn. Do you think those links I posted a few comments up are made up? The cold hard fact is that Christians deny every action done by extreme Christians as the work of Cult groups. Yet these "holier than thou" bible beaters refuse to acknowledge that the same thing could happen in another major religion, such as Judaism and Islam. Deny it with what ever rhetoric your preacher tells you is best but you know, if you have any rational thoughts in your mind, that I am right.

You know these people that do work in Jesus's name really believe whole heartedly that they are Christian. You are absolutely right we can't change the sins of the past, but we can open our minds up to the sins around us of the now. I'm not saying being a Christian is bad and wrong. I am man enough to admit to my self that there are people who do evil in the name of every religion. But pcn if you really want to compare body counts done in the name of Islam, and Christianity, you are going to have your feelings hurt my friend.

Also lets take the millions of innocent people the US has killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, now I know you are going to deny these actions were in the name of Christ, but if you remember any of Bushes speech's he claimed several times that many hours of prayer and thought lead him to these decisions. And he adamantly claimed that everything he did was for God. Regardless of your thoughts on the subject that is what happened. Anyone can read a speech Bush made on the Justification of that war and see this is a fact. He claimed on many many occasions that his actions were only taken after prayer. And he said he felt God was behind all of his actions.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Pcn to think that the events of the past do not effect the actions of today is pretty naive. Yes it is true that as a whole the Christian faith has for the most part stopped killing people and ideas that do not agree with them, torturing of innocent people until they confess they worship the devil or practice witch craft or what have you in over 90% of the cases the people were most like innocent, as all it took was for some one that didn't like you to tell the church you did something against God anything and they would kill you, burning people at the stake and what ever else you have. All that aside the past directly effects the actions of the vast majority of the world in the vast majority of most situations every single day. And not just in violent ways, in many, many ways. The if it were not for the mistakes of the past then we would still be in those dark ages. Regardless of what is wrong or right people still hold huge grudges for things that happened in the past. And every race, religion, and creed has some one that is guilty of this in it. I don't hold it against the Christian church for the obliteration of Mayans, Inca's and many other cultures but some people do. Its all depends on how they were raised. It is a fact that white's were slaves in America too, but very few hold that grudge against their in slavers, however many millions of Blacks still think it is a very valid problem that still needs to be addressed today. Regardless of my feelings on the subject, who am I to tell these people they need to change and get over it. Who am I to tell them their argument is pointless and there is nothing to gain from it? As a Lover of God you should be a Lover of Man and all things, and part of that is trying to show understanding and opening your mind to the thoughts and emotions of others.

No we are not going to like every person we meet, its just not in our nature. Even the best examples of people in history didn't like some one and their ideas. But it is our job to vailadte them as a person, and hear their side of the argument. To close your mind to that makes you guilty of the same thing they are speaking out against and caring those centuries old problems into the present. You know there are no living slaves left in the US from that time period, but their grandchildren are still alive and they grew up in a time where slavery was a blessing compared to the lives they lived after slavery was abolished. Why do you think so many blacks fought for the south in that war, not because they were forced to, because they understood that if they didn't their lives would turn into a real hell. And yes history has over embellished the mistreatment of most slaves, but that is what we are thought. Maybe it is you that have never been persecuted and do not understand how deeply those emotions can run. The fact is that even Christians harbor hate for long periods of time, some times even through generations and generations until there is no one left alive to even remember how it started, but their story passes on and their family that took these stories carried it with the same love and passion as those before them because they knew how much it meant to their family and loved ones. Again I can't agree with it all but yes I am guilty of it too. In the present I strive not to be that type of person any more, harboring hate and content for people I don't even know and many that are no longer alive. But the fact is that the past has effected the rational emotions of every person with the ability to reason at some point in time or another, and it still continues to do so daily and will continue to do so most likely until Jesus Returns and God remakes this wretched world.


skipper112 profile image

skipper112 5 years ago from Sydney Australia

G'day I am Catholic ( Christian) I belive no so called man of God has the right to burn any Religious book, I am a Autralian, I also belive no person has thr right to burn any other countries national Flag.

By burning Religious Books and flags, you only show how you are not walking in the way of any Gods teachings.

Burning books or flags is not the way of God PERIOD. I can go on about (so called fault's of all Religions) but why that is hopefully in the past. The simple fact is God will not aprove of burning books or Flags, that is pure disrepect. Pintails 7886 please stick to the subject, let us not get carried away,Burning the Quran of Flags is pure DISREPCT ok so lets stop BURNING anything ok, the flag of the USA or any other country it to be RESPECTED not BURNT.

Skipper,

may your God walk with you


OmNaser profile image

OmNaser 5 years ago from kuwait

Burning the Qur'an to them is victory. But I think it will bring shame to America and cause more hatred between the extremist groups and christians than it already has. Doing so not only will upset the muslims but also will teach thier american children that it is Ok to burn any holy book, flag or whatever they hate. There's no use of burning it. And if so they can burn all the Qur'ans in the world, there will be no end to the words of Allah because there are still people , thousands if not millions are memorising the Qur'an every single day. This is not the solution. Burning the Qur'an will not bring the 9/11 3000 victims back to life. Burning it will not end Islam. Because Allah exists. Will always exist. Thats what Islam is about anyway.

Im very sorry that this is happening in your country.


Harvey Stelman profile image

Harvey Stelman 5 years ago from Illinois

Om, Unfortunatly we have Flag burning all over the world, this is a little different. This takes it up a notch. Thank G-D this never happened, but know one has to die for any book being burned. Life is more precious than paper.

Please note there were more Christian's opposed to this burning, than anyone else. The thing that matters most, is life. Anyone can burn a book in the privacy of their home, I guess that isn't protested. H


OmNaser profile image

OmNaser 5 years ago from kuwait

H, you know that very well that Im against the killings, I have no business in America anyway. They are free to do anything , it's a free country. But will this bring them happiness? Peace? What will happen when they burn the Qur'an? Will they go to heaven?

My point that there's no use of burning the Qur'an. Burning the Qur'an won't be a solution. It will cause more hatred. The priests will not represent Christianity nicely.The priests will show the christians that it's ok to hate, and whenever you hate just burn the Qur'an! Why can't they be better and show other countries that America respects other religions. This would be a good move. Those priests reminded me of my little daughter when she broke her brother's car toy for revenge. A bit childish.

A flag is not a holy book but it also should be respected as it represents a country. But It's not the same. Qur'an is book with words of God.The same God that Abraham and Moses worshipped. If you are a believer you wouldnt want the Qur'an to be burned. And we wouldnt want to burn the Bible and Old testament either.


kurdish 5 years ago

Yarab make those people to (ebrate)ugly things that hurting muslims and your prophet hazrate Muhammad


Herman Jackson 5 years ago

Just because you have the right given by the 1st to do something - it doesn't make it always advisable.


pintails7886 5 years ago

Agreed Herman. I don't know that a Muslim would burn a bible. If they did it would be a very serious sin. As Muslims the bible is a large part of our religion along with the Torah. Though some Muslims may not read it, they very well should


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 5 years ago from Memphis TN Author

You know Herman, I also believe that every one who truly loves God and wishes to bring people to their religion should study as many religions as possible, so when trying to convert some one you know what you are talking about with them no matter their religion. This in my experience helps you to better connect with this person.

I have found that comparing your religions helps so that the people can better understand what you are talking about also.

Anyways, my point is you can't do this by burning books. If you are Christian, Jew, Muslim what ever you should care about your fellow humans soul and attempt to show them the path to God.


lily 4 years ago

so not true people


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 4 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Yes lily you are correct now. However when this was written almost a year ago there was a very real plan to do this. The "pastor" if that is what you can call him had a page on his web site giving the details for all those who wished to attend. Later he likely realized from the lack of positive support except from extremists and the abundance of disapproval by not just Muslims but Christians, Jews and all decent people, that his "grand idea" was in fact stupid.

So what ever is "so not true" could you please explain better to me?

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