Reincarnation Outlawed by Emperor Justinian?

Portrait of Emperor Justinian I.
Portrait of Emperor Justinian I. | Source

To be clear, I remain hungry for truth. Science offers some and so does religion. In many respects, these are only "relative truths," not absolutes. Arguably, absolute "truth" does not exist in the physical realm. I have studied electronics, astronomy, astrophysics, computer science, calculus, geology, anthropology, archaeology, Christianity, Judaism, the Kabbalah, Buddhism, Taoism and Scientology. Each offers its own unique insights. Christianity stands as perhaps the most powerful force. Much of that force, however, has been crippled by dogma and politics formed so long ago that most members today are ignorant of the forces of darkness woven within the light. Even with one third the Earth's population, Christianity is currently only a shadow of its full potential.

Jesus told his disciples, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now" (John 16:12 KJV). There are many hidden truths he revealed to his closest followers, yet some things even they were not yet ready for. And many things Jesus taught more openly have been forgotten by the Church, buried in its past.

The sixth century was a turbulent time for Europe, for the empire and for the Church. It is hard to find a time in history when there was not some turbulence, but the sixth century held a critical turning point in the relatively young Christian church. That church was no longer a cult. It was a well-established religion, and the power it held attracted those who lusted after power.

Reincarnation and Christianity
Reincarnation and Christianity

An eye opening treatise by English clergy in 1910 regarding the beginnings of religious doubt.

 
Reincarnation in Christianity: A New Vision of the Role of Rebirth in Christian Thought (Quest Books)
Reincarnation in Christianity: A New Vision of the Role of Rebirth in Christian Thought (Quest Books)

Delving into the history of the church to find that reincarnation and Christian doctrine are not mutually exclusive.

 

Changes in Christianity during this period were the result of a popularity contest between monophysitism (a belief that Jesus has only one nature, divine-human, a belief which was popular amongst the people), and Nestorianism (a belief that Jesus has a dual nature, divine + human). While this may seem to be splitting hairs, it was powerful enough motivation to have an emperor depose a sitting pope, install another (Vigilius), and later, when Vigilius would not play ball, have the new Pope remain under arrest until he complied. Pope Vigilius spent 8 years of confinement in Byzantium, and died not long after he acceded to Justinian's demands.

Was he murdered by Justinian? We may never answer that question.

Vigilius had, among other things, refused to sign the degree condemning the teachings of distinguished early church father, Origen Adamantius (c.185 – c.254 AD). Justinian (483 – 565 AD) presided over the ecumenical council because Vigilius had refused to participate. The result of that council was a death knell for religious freedom.

"If anyone asserts the fabulous preexistence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema" (The Anathemas against Origen, attached to the decrees of the Fifth Ecumenical Council, A.D. 545, in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 2d ser., 14:318).

Noah's Flood: The New Scientific Discoveries About The Event That Changed History
Noah's Flood: The New Scientific Discoveries About The Event That Changed History

A scientist's take on a possible source for Noah's Flood -- the flooding of the Black Sea basin c.5600 BC.

 
Flood Legends
Flood Legends

Explore flood myths from across the globe.

 

A part of truth died on that day. No one was allowed to think of Christianity except by way of the new standard. To do so was punishable by death. Heretics were burned at the stake or hung. Centuries later, the Cathars were murdered in a wholesale slaughter. The Church had become based on ego rather than on divine wisdom. The Church was committing crimes against humanity in the name of their false doctrine.

But we can forgive them. God, in His wisdom, knew ego would get the upper hand for awhile. Much later, reason would get the upper hand, and, though ego would persist, a democratizing effect would ameliorate ego's impact. Such would give us the opportunity to reclaim truth.

Much earlier, when Emperor Constantine I (c272 – 337 AD) had set Christianity as a state religion, ecumenical councils had established the practice of determining political policies as well as accepted doctrine. At times, there seemed to be more political intrigue than philosophically based opinion. Changes in the Church seemed driven more by secular concerns than divine guidance. But I can't help but think there was guidance of a sort in even that turn of events.

True faith is not based on doctrine, but on the conviction that a higher power is interested in our wellbeing. That higher power must give us the ability to make the wrong decisions, because the escape from this mortal realm requires that we choose the righteous path on our own. It can't be forced upon us. If we cling to the wrong ideas and arrogantly refuse to look any further, then we are not yet ready for the awakening.

Like a computer when it lifts itself up by its own bootstraps (it "boots" up, initializing the system), the individual needs to take full responsibility for their condition and lift themselves up by their own bootstraps. The faith that is required for such a "self-boot" is none other than perfect confidence. Confidence which is at 99.9999999% is as good as none at all in the realm of spirit and creation, because imperfect confidence is tainted with a touch of doubt. Achieving such perfect confidence requires that we let go of ego completely. This is the attainment of perfect humility.

How can truth become perverted?

It's easy when the selfish see an opportunity to gain power by hijacking a group with many followers. It is easy when many of the members of the group favor a doctrine that feeds their self-importance rather than their souls. Even today, many of the "faithful" find it too easy to practice forcing their false doctrine on others because what they've been taught is simple to understand and has enough truth in it to be seductive. The real path to truth requires letting go of recently accepted truths, and repetitively letting go until they've gained the perfect humility to take the final step. This is the idea of the "right hand" not letting the "left hand" know what it does. You sort of sneak up on ego in order to vanquish it.

Holding onto any ideology feeds ego. Yet, keeping an ideology strong allowed the Church to persist through turbulent, Medieval times. Perhaps it was a necessary "evil."

 The founder of Christianity. A painting of the Sermon on the Mount, by nineteenth century artist.
The founder of Christianity. A painting of the Sermon on the Mount, by nineteenth century artist. | Source

Is Reincarnation a Doctrine Dangerous to Tyrants?

With reincarnation, a citizen of your empire will not necessarily remain a citizen. The mortal identity will die, it is true, but the immortal, true self may be born into lands beyond your borders. Possession equals control. Reincarnation means a lack of possession. Reincarnation is compatible with the Nestorian point-of-view of a dual nature for Jesus. Genesis talks of this dual nature for all of us — the spiritual (Genesis 1:26) and the physical (Genesis 2:7). And Jesus had to remind his enemies that "ye are gods," affirming the divinity of us all. What tyrant would feel comfortable with such a belief?

If instead, each citizen thinks that they have only one life, you possess them because you possess their body. And if your church controls the salvation of a poorly-defined "soul," with Jesus far above them, you have control of everything else.

Were these concerns part of Justinian's motivation? Too bad we cannot interview him. And the reincarnated Justinian will likely not remember such details. It's all too possible he's a beer-guzzling sanitation engineer in a mid-sized city, more concerned with the next sports game than the meaning of life. But don't tell him he used to be emperor. His ego is in enough trouble.

Jesus talked of reincarnation. Many Christians do not believe this. Some, rather simplistically, point out that the word, "reincarnation," is not in the Bible. While that is true, Shakespeare's wisdom comes to mind, that a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet. It's still a rose, even if we don't call it one. Jesus also talks about karma, though he describes it as dying by the sword by which one has lived, or reaping what one has sown.

Faith is a powerful tool, but "faith in a lie" is really only an oxymoron. Such is an impossibility. What some people call "faith" is really only "belief." And belief in a lie does not make it true, no matter how many believe it.

Truth and wisdom require work. If you're hungry for them, it's easy to stay motivated and dissatisfied with shallow, unfulfilling interpretation. Humility allows that hunger. Some Christians feel they have all they need, so they never look beyond their current worldview.

Noah's Ark before the Flood, by American artist, Edward Hicks (1780-1849).
Noah's Ark before the Flood, by American artist, Edward Hicks (1780-1849). | Source

God Protected the Future of Civilization

When God brought about the Flood, he was protecting the future of civilization. This broad and ubiquitous institution we currently enjoy is divinely important, because only through it can we have the luxury of time to discuss and study these important matters. Yet, despite having civilization, it has taken nearly fifteen hundred years to come back to truth after Justinian's derailment. The environment is now ripe for plucking the fruit of wisdom from the tree of life, and for washing away the poison of the Forbidden Fruit. We begin to do that by becoming hungry for that wisdom.

We've had the Age of Reason and it has helped us to become aware of so many things. Under the protection of science, we were able to question the grip of the Church on spiritual matters. We are in a delicate balance between the freedom to search for truth, and the restrictions of a new regime which might want to outlaw such freedoms. How many will take this opportunity? Can we ensure the continued freedom to search, or will the pendulum swing too far in the other direction, back toward the iron grip of religious dogma? The polarization began years ago, and may now be approaching its climax. I can only hope that reason and faith will find the right path to become partners.

Polarization is a great distraction, attracting ego to one ideological extreme or another. On one side, we have "false reason" represented by Richard Dawkins and similar skeptics. On the other side, we have "false faith" represented by Young Earth Creationists and similar believers. Both sides are deadly serious, fighting for their own brand of righteousness against a perceived evil. But both sides are wrong.

Instead of fighting, the more sane of us merely remain neutral and let the storm die down on its own. We inject our words of calm and balance to retain sanity. In this universe, there is room enough for the truth of electrons orbiting neutrons and protons along with the truth of immortal spirit, not yet awake enough to remember, being born repeatedly in one body after another, increasing its opportunities to awaken to God. Science and religion may be as different as oil and vinegar, but they can make a wonderful salad dressing. And this life? Some salad!

Remain hungry for truth.

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Comments 24 comments

cheaptrick profile image

cheaptrick 5 years ago from the bridge of sighs

Seeking,seeking...always seeking yet the goal remains just out of reach.Physical existence is for seeking.The answers and absolutes lie beyond.I believed the tree of knowledge to be like a Pine with one final answer...I now see it as a willow spreading more and more outward as I become smaller and smaller in the seeking...seeking...

Fantastic writing.I've learned much here and I thank you.

Dean


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Delicate subject, fraught with danger! - is returning to spirit and ruling with Christ on a 'new earth' the same as reincarnation..... shall I come back as something else with no consciousness of who I am in this existence?.... yes Christ can be seen to allude to what the eastern religions call karma (and I myself sometimes use the word allegorically)but equally there is no direct connection between 'sow and reap' in Christian terminology compared to 'karma' in Hindi or Buddhism.

For me the one true aspect is that Christ is unique in that He alone defeated ALL the power of the enemy in a perfect manner, and as such He alone is all sufficient.

There are many paths that seem familiar, which is all the more reason to examine the way well and be sure to choose the correct path.

As always, thought provoking...

Thanks,

John


Rod Marsden profile image

Rod Marsden 5 years ago from Wollongong, NSW, Australia

Thanks for filling in some of the details. Yes, I had come across before about how some Christians believed in reincarnation and how the emperor ruled against it. Politics was rife in the early centuries of Christianity. It was certainly rife in the medieval church. It would be great if a higher power was interested in our wellbeing.


Alastar Packer profile image

Alastar Packer 5 years ago from North Carolina

Fantastic Hub, thought I knew a good bit about the subject matter here but this has enlightened me further. Thanks: have you lone77star ever come on anything that related to a late second century event within the church at that time which changed not only the name of who we now call Jesus, but altered the real story behind him?


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Thank you, Dean (cheaptrick), for your observations. Good stuff.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

John (aquasilver), I agree -- fraught with danger! But it's the most delicious danger in existence. Get it wrong, and well... hell! Get it right, and you've got pure bliss with substance.

Is returning to spirit and ruling with Christ on a 'new earth' the same as reincarnation? Not in the slightest! Reincarnation is part of being tied to the poison of the Forbidden Fruit, if I understand it right. It is being tied to this mortal existence -- to the action-reaction continuity of the physical realm. That's my own meager understanding.

The consciousness you prize so much is only a temporary thing, borne of this world. What Jesus offered us is something permanent -- something we already had, but gave away when we bought into this physical stuff.

And, on karma, are you so sure there is no connection, as you say? I don't know, and yet I hunger to know. Don't be so afraid to look and to ask. Such wisdom will not come to the arrogant who pretend already to know. I have only discovered a few scraps from the table of great bounty. I know there is more where that came from.

Could the "sins of the fathers" also be talking about karma and reincarnation? Reading Numbers 14:18 in this light seems to change everything.

Jesus told his students that Elijah had reincarnted in the form of John the Baptist, yet even the Baptist did not seem to know this. Don't be so attached to the consciousness of this life. When one has achieved everlasting life, one achieves a new consciousness which is perpetual and not tied to brain synapses. One is able to step free of the body and see without mortal eyes, think without temporary brain matter, and cause things to move without the aid of flesh and bone.

Choosing the correct path is so important. I agree. Most paths taken today are fraught with ego -- the master of this world. We need to teach ourselves to see the real Jesus behind the plastic icons, silver crosses and heavily interpreted sermons.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Rod, thanks for your insights. I agree that it would be great if a higher power were interested in our wellbeing. And wouldn't it be interesting if that higher power were us?... the more permanent us, behind those beautiful eyes you see in the mirror. Us plus our siblings who were not so unfortunate as to "lay" with the universe.

The everlasting life being offered makes so much more sense if a part of us is already immortal.

I have already witnessed the non-physical side of "me" on numerous occasions. I have dredged up memories which are hoary with age -- far older than this frail body. That such a spiritual "half" of "me" is also immortal, is not such a stretch, logically.

It would be something if our "brother" immortals came back to generate a rescue. Not all of us have the strength of character to pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps, as did Gautama Siddhartha. Perhaps we needed Yehoshua of Nazareth to help shake us loose from the hypnotic spell of ego.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Dear Alastar Packer! You have me intrigued. I am not aware of such an event which had those specific effects. How can I find out more? Do you have a hub on this?

Some of the nominally "faithful" cringe at such discussions, thinking that such investigations only attempt to tarnish the "good name" of Jesus (or whatever he was really called). As Shakespeare said, "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet." If such a story only adds mystery, so be it. If it illuminates truth even further, then that is a trip worth taking.


Disappearinghead profile image

Disappearinghead 5 years ago from Wales, UK

I'm not going to agree with you on reincarnation as I see no evidence in scripture and plenty that suggests to me the contrary. However, an excellently written hub.

You are right to point out that the Church has a horrendous history of abusing and warping the truth for political ends, and you are correct that much of the Church today is completely ignorant of the origins of their doctrines they hold so fast to. Even today, free thinking is not tolerated in the Church. Virtually all church organisations insist that members sign up to an accepted list of creeds and doctrines, and anyone who dissents is branded as not being a proper Christian. Oh how the Church is blind to the pagan ideology it accepts as truth in contradiction to Judaism.

Good hub.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@Disappearinghead, thanks for your comments.

What does scripture really mean? There is so much that is hidden -- wisdom only for those who are humble and listen to the quiet, still voice within -- our master's voice.

Is reincarnation in the Bible? You bet it is. When Jesus told his students that Elijah had indeed returned as the prophecy had foretold, they knew their master was speaking of John the Baptist.

When Jesus told his disciples that those who live by the sword will die by the sword, he was telling them of karma, and karma needs much more time than one lifetime to play out. How many criminals did not die by the sword by which they had lived? Plenty! At least in their criminal lifetime. And Numbers 14:18 emphasizes this point when it talks of the sins of the fathers. Why 3rd and 4th generation? What happened to 1st, 2nd, 5th, etc? The child who suffers for the crimes of the "father," is not the innocent we typically think of; it is the reincarnated perpetrator "paying" for his crimes. But there is no bad karma -- only opportunities to come back to God, if we are grateful for every misfortune and take responsibility for them.

Genesis 1:26-27 talks of man being created in God's image. That means "baby gods" -- non-physical, spiritual and immortal sources of creation. When Jesus was confronted by his enemies (supposedly devout Jews), he reminded them that their own holy book says, "ye are gods."

When Jesus asked Peter to step out of the boat, he actually walked on water, if only for a moment. For a moment, his "reason" and his "ego" did not get in the way. He was "walking with God."

And when Jesus told those who were healed that it was their own faith that had healed them, he was putting responsibility on them, not himself. Only an immortal, child of God can do the things Jesus did and even greater. And if we are immortal, then God wants us to have every opportunity to come back to Him, right? So, reincarnation -- multiple opportunities to open one's hardened heart and to take responsibility for eating the Forbidden Fruit.


Jerami profile image

Jerami 5 years ago from Houston tx

The way in which I understand what you wrote in this hub; I agree completely. The way in which you are precieving it ... I agree ninty something persent.

If that makes any sense??

Genesis 1:26 ... let US make man in OUR image".

If a spirit enters into a man, is that man not at that time made into the image of the spirit? Just a play on words, or is it realy?

Rev. 4:11 " ... for thy pleasure they were created".

The physical world was created for his pleasure.

Kinda like us building an amusement park. They are created for out pleasure. And if we choose, we go there as often as circumstances allow.

I can see how a spiritual being might desire to spend a short period of time in a physical realm numerous times. The children of light go to the amusement park to experience physical life. Also, the children of darkness go the same park.

We are incouraged, when the time is finished, to Not follow the children of darkness to their home.

Those names which are written in the book of life sinse before the foundation of the earth .. ??


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Jerami, thanks for the intriguing comments. That gives me something to think about.

I don't doubt that the physical universe had a purpose and that it wasn't created to be avoided. I like your "amusement park" analogy.


Jerami profile image

Jerami 5 years ago from Houston tx

And the sons of God came down and took all that they wanted of the daughters of man.

I think the sons of God knew what they were, where they were, and what they were doing Is this what is written that 1/3 of the angels fell from grace (Bad translation) 1/3 of the angels took their turn in enjoying what might have felt like an orgasmic experience of life in the physical world.

They knew it was created for their pleasure and they went crazy enjoying it. Can you imagine if you were one of them, and you knew what the situation was (if this were true)?

This knowledge ruined every ones theme park fantasy. God had to wipe it clean and start all over.

This time all prior knowledge of existence was left at the entrance gate so-to-speak. And rules of behavior had to be set in place.

I won’t swear to any of this, but I like the sound of it and this would answer a lot of questions that otherwise seem unanswerable from any other context..


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Fascinating, Jerami.

The sons of God and daughters of man story is a precursor to Noah's Flood. I think that was an entirely different ball of wax. Genesis 6 is hiding an entire boat load of secrets. For instance, it talks about wickedness and violence being at the heart of the reason for the Flood, but the Flood did not cure ordinary violence and wickedness. In fact, every kind that most of us can think of has continued for thousands of years after the Flood. But God promised never again to use the Flood. It seems He was satisfied with the result. This implies that the Flood cured some very specific wickedness. And my research points to a very specific target group.

The difference between the sons and daughters was far more than mere gender. The wording in Genesis screams this. It says that men had daughters. But, duh!, didn't they also have sons?

Genesis 1:26 says that man was created in God's image. This is the spiritual component. Genesis 2:7 says that man was created from the dust of the ground (chemicals). This is the Homo sapiens part. So, the sons of God are immortal spirit wrapped in Homo sapiens flesh. This also means that the daughters were likely not Homo sapiens. They were likely a different species!

The simple formula I discovered in Genesis gives us a date of 27,970 BC for the Flood and a date of 10,434,130 BC for Adam. And science gives us the death of a very specific species about 28,000 BC (the date of the Flood). That species was Neanderthal. They looked enough like man to be called "man." Their women were attractive enough to be found worthy wives. Their offspring likely would not have been capable of forming civilization. This was the wickedness from God's viewpoint. This was the abomination which threatened to thwart His plan -- the awakening of His sleeping children (not the Homo sapiens half, but the immortal spiritual half).

And who's to say that the Fallen Angels are not specifically you and me and everyone else on this planet? We are them. We are Adam and Eve of the Garden. By deciding to turn away from God and adopt a "separate" self, we blinded ourselves to the world -- we put ourselves in darkness.

The one time I was outside of my body with full visual clarity, I knew I was a spiritual being and not my physical body. For that brief few moments, I was no longer blinded. But fear, worry, concern and doubt snapped me back into the Homo sapiens "shelter."

I long to return to the light and to leave all my attachments to darkness behind.


Michael Modak profile image

Michael Modak 5 years ago from USA

This is a great conversation. Where to begin, first off I believe in God, reincarnation, the divine nature of the Soul, and I think that the authority of "the word" is found in each of us. Most people cant act kindly to others or even see the other as a part of themselves, so they sit row upon row listening to a man tell them to stop hurting themselves. Because of this, they cant get past the "milk" of true spirituality. Books are great references to history and lead to truth but they can be easily mis-interpretated, manipulated, or lost. It is up to us to find that truth using both inside and outside information. Let the spirit and experience be out guide.

As for the Daughters of God and Gen ch6, that one has always seemed to be missing quite a lot of info. I have a hard time believing God "Did" any of those things, but rather what happened was a direct effect of some disaster brought upon by those who were in power at the time. Kind-of like if we, the humans on earth now- choose to blow ourselves up with nukes or release a toxin that wipes us all out. It could be seen as an act of God but I think God allows free will, Good or ill. Perhaps God simply warns his people of what their actions will result in, and we can change or suffer the consequences...


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Thanks, Michael. I appreciate your wisdom and your input.

I can understand the difficulty in believing God would do some of the things mentioned in the Bible. Interpreting imperfect human words to find Truth is not easy.

Understanding God's motivation can be a big part of understanding whether or not God specifically did some of the things in the Bible, like Noah's Flood.

I think God did create the Flood, but His motivation was purely one of love for His children. And those children are not Homo sapiens.


Dan Barfield profile image

Dan Barfield 3 years ago from Gloucestershire, England, UK

This is a fantastic hub!! I did not know about the influence of Justinian in the early days of the church. I am fully in agreement with your stance on things. The freedom to seek undogmatic truth is essential, and the ridiculous illusory conflict between reason and faith must be dismantled. There is no such divide in real terms - only in the rigid systems of belief held by the over-zealous dogmatics of both sides of the debate. Reading this has reassured me that I'm not walking the middle path alone. Voted up and shared! :)


lone77star profile image

lone77star 3 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Wow, @Dan Barfield, your comment made my day!

I feel as though there is so much truth yet to be discovered, and I'd like help in discovering it. I hope that I hold onto my own discoveries only lightly enough to allow me to find other, more potent Truths. Humility is key, but so many Christians who claim to be humble resent those who don't buy their dogma. How humble is that?

I've already found a number of breakthroughs in Genesis, including a timeline compatible with those of science. In fact, science led me to the culprit behind the reason for Noah's Flood. Surprised the heck out of me. And it's so simple.

Anyway, may reason and faith remain strong with you, when they are needed. God bless you and yours.


web923 profile image

web923 3 years ago from Twentynine Palms, California

Excellent Hub! I give it awesome and up! I believe that scripture does make a case for reincarnation.e.g. - Malachi 4:5 "Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet..." And Matthew 11:14 where Jesus confirms, " And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come." Of course Jesus was referring to John the Baptist. John the Baptist was Elijah who was to come as foretold in Malachi 4:5. How can there be any doubt that this is reincarnation? I also believe one could make a pretty good case from scripture that Elijah and Elisa were reincarnated as John the Baptist and Jesus (being the reincarnation of Elisha).


lone77star profile image

lone77star 3 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Well, @web923, that's interesting. I was already familiar with Malachi and Matthew, but never before looked at the idea that Elisha was Jesus. Very interesting. Curious how Elijah the master became the stumbling block to Jesus. Sad.

I have looked at the idea, though, that Jesus may have been King David.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/David-is-J

The more the dogma falls away and we are willing to allow truth to come to us, the more open we become to the real meaning of things. Even if we make some mistakes along the way, this search for the spirit is far better than clinging to dead letters.


web923 profile image

web923 3 years ago from Twentynine Palms, California

@lone77star Well Jesus Himself said that there were none greater than John the Baptist of those born of women. Within that context jump to 2Kings 2:9-2:16 Elijah is about to be taken and he asks Elisha what he can do for him. Elisha requests a double portion of Elijah's spirit and Elijah consents if Elisha see's him taken in a whirlwind, which of course he does. So the only one that could possibly fill the bill to have double portion of the spirit of Elijah would be the Messiah Jesus. So the once master of the past becomes a disciple at the moment that he baptizes Jesus. I believe that's why Jesus said, I must needs be!" referring to John baptizing Him. It was a symbolic gesture or rite whereby the scepter was transferred from Elijah/John to Elisha/Jesus!


lone77star profile image

lone77star 3 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Very nice, indeed!


Eddie junior 2 years ago

Hello brother, the Father directed me to your site and I must say that your article was very informative and confirmed a lot of things God gave me 3 years ago. I am a minister of the Gospel and did not know the truth of reincarnation until recently. This doctrine actually lines up with Gods grace according to what I have learned. What do you think about that? Does Grace actually reveal reincarnation?


lone77star profile image

lone77star 2 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Howdy Eddie junior. That we are immortal children of God does line up with God's grace. Truth is compatible with truth. When we are with the Holy Spirit, the most important thing is love. Concerns about self are of minimal importance, but grace does increase awareness. Some of us have had numerous incarnations. We can only hope that it has all helped us move closer to the Heavenly Father.

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