Replies to Atheists over 10 tips for dealing with atheists in the forums

This one is a first for me, a hub dedicated to answering Athiests comments in my earlier hub 10 tips for dealing with atheists in the forums which has sat their contentedly being read, presumably by believers, which it is directed towards, since March 2010, and attracting a fair number of comments, then suddenly, in one night, it starts getting large numbers of visit, and a plethora of inane comments from atheists, declaring all manner of rubbish.

It was 3am when I saw this sudden influx of hits and comments, and I was checking the ratings before going to bed.

My options were simple, allow disgruntled atheists to flood the site with mostly inane comments, or change the principals I have held for two years, and stop all and any comments being posted until I had approved them?

I comment on plenty of hubbers sites where the post is not shown until approved, no problem there, and we need this on occasion, to stop worthless commenter’s and spammers’ using our comments box for their platform.

The place for debates concerning articles of belief or disbelief is in the forums, not someone else’s comments box. That is just simple politeness, and whenever I treply to anothers hub, and someone else tries to turn my reply into a philosophical debate about whether God exists or not, I either just ignore them, after having reminded them that this is not our comments box.

I have always responded to any comment left that required further explanation, but it was obvious that a posse of atheists were besieging the page (should that be another collective name, maybe an ‘unfaithful of atheists?’

Anyhow, after reading through the posts made, the following need an answer, for those discarded, sorry your post did not fulfill any useful criterion to require an answer.

If you think I missed you in the 'rush' and you do have a point to express, just reply here or there!

SuperGeorge

I find it amusing that the majority of the people who votes turned out to be Atheists, LOL!

Me too SuperGeorge, especially as what they are attacking was never directed at them! Anyhow it’s been great for the statistics and I have even seen an increase in my earnings today, so I am delighted that the gang decided to descend in mass to flood my page.

In reality about 1% of readers seem to leave a comment, so if you add up the total number of believing commenter’s, the majority of visitors are the target audience, believers who may venture into the forums.

BobM

Believe whatever you want. Just don't try and legislate your beliefs into secular law to force *me* to live according to *your* beliefs. If i wanted to live according to your church's rules, i'd belong to it.

Totally agree BobM, I don’t hold with religious legalism either, been the bane of Christ since He was last here, and is a bane to me as much as it would be to you, frankly I hate it, but it’s that pesky false democracy that seems to cause and allow it to happen, some sleazy politico works out that the majority of folk who will be voting for him come election day are bible believing ‘Christians’ and that by muttering the right keywords they will give him their vote again, so he mouths platitudes and they buy them, and some self centered politico gets into power and makes cash for another four years.

That is the problem with Churchianity, and I warrant neither you nor I will be able to change it.

The sheeple are fed a diet of doctrines which their particular section of Churchianity agree upon, and the idiots they elect try to get them into law, then all the opposition are roused up and the fighting begins, and the ordinary folk are kept in disunity and the 1% scumbags that run our world chortle and lift their glasses to ‘diversity’.

BobM

I would like to take exception to the assertion that atheists "fear God." Do you fear Emperor Palpatine of Star Wars? Of course not, because he's merely a character in a fictional story. That's how atheists feel about your god.

Here, i'll prove i have no fear of your god: What's the "unforgivable sin," denying the holy spirit? There is no such thing as the holy spirit. I deny its existence completely. It never did exist, and never will. I say this knowing full well that if i am wrong, then according to the book of myths called the bible, this denial means i have burned the bridge of ever being forgiven and having redemption from the death of Christ; that my denial will result in my being cast into a lake of fire to suffer and burn in unimaginable agony for all eternity. I laugh in the imaginary face of this fictitious entity.

Someone would have to be pretty freaking insane to say that if they actually believed in and feared your god, don't you think?

First the sin you speak of is as follows:

Matthew 12:30-32 Amplified Bible (AMP)

He who is not with Me [definitely on My side] is against Me, and he who does not [definitely] gather with Me and for My side scatters.

Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy (every evil, abusive, [c]injurious speaking, or indignity against sacred things) can be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the [Holy] Spirit shall not and cannot be forgiven.

And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Spirit, the Holy One, will not be forgiven, either in this world and age or in the world and age to come.

Personally I have always taken this to mean that anyone who has experienced the infilling of the Holy Spirit, seen the power of the Holy Spirit and then proceeds to deny He exists, is the qualifying fact for qualification.

If someone has NOT experienced this, I think it is difficult to dismiss what you have never encountered, and your willingness to express this, knowing that in (your opinion at least) this is the unforgivable sin, shows bravado rather than making a statement concerning your total 100% belief and knowledge that God does NOT exist.

As long as you ARE 100% sure of that, not just 99.9999% sure, but the full 100%, then your 'confession' is worthless anyway, as long as you are right.

BobM

I'd like to say it saddens me that you're wasting so much of the only life you will ever have, and money that could be better spent improving the lives of yourself and loved ones, supporting frauds and charlatans, but frankly, with such willful ignorance in the face of overwhelming evidence that your beliefs are absolutely wrong, you get what you deserve.


Well I am sorry you are saddened, not so myself I’m afraid, I live a blessed life and thank God daily for the life He has given me, now let’s see….

“Wasting so much of the only life you will ever have”

Well of course THAT is what all the fuss is about; are you correct, or is God?

Tough question I know, but I truly do not see me wasting any life with God, quite the contrary, since I came to faith 20 years ago, life has been exceedingly interesting, varied and educational, with some periods of astounding prosperity (when I obeyed God) and some of equally astounding poverty (when I needed to get a slap for being too much ME and not enough HE)

So no life wasted, and I live a comfortable existence in SE Asia, relocated by God to warmer climates and recession free (for now) zones, where I can enjoy Gods providence and reach folk by the written word and ministry.

No I am content in all things, something we are commended to learn how to be, and which is a joy once you attain the inner peace that comes from a relationship with God, through Christ and the Holy Spirit, and whom obviously you have never met, or experienced.

BobM

It's one thing to believe in something where there is no evidence at all. To believe even though every shred of evidence collected over many centuries in every branch of science says you are unequivocally wrong? That takes weapons-grade gullibility.

Really? …..Weapons grade gullibility, well thank you for your compliment:

1 Corinthians 1:26-28 - Amplified Bible (AMP)

For [simply] consider your own call, brethren; not many [of you were considered to be] wise according to human estimates and standards, not many influential and powerful, not many of high and noble birth.

[No] for God selected (deliberately chose) what in the world is foolish to put the wise to shame, and what the world calls weak to put the strong to shame.

And God also selected (deliberately chose) what in the world is lowborn and insignificant and branded and treated with contempt, even the things that are nothing, that He might depose and bring to nothing the things that are…

You see, or rather you do not see, that everything in the Kingdom of God is upside down compared to your world, the weak are strong, the poor are rich and the foolish are wise, and I can see how that would cause you to want to pour scorn and disparagement over the believer, because you think yourself wise, when in truth God calls you a fool.

I always find it mildly amusing that atheists resort to mild abuse of believers mental capacities when they run out of reasons to challenge why a believer can see the evidence of God, when they cannot.

Christianwarrior

Debating an atheist is not only a waste of time, it is a sin, punishable by death. The bible says: "Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. "(Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Killing atheists is the work of the Lord, and if we show remorse for taking a life, Jesus will forgive us and we will go to Heaven. Seek non- believers out and destroy them in Jesus's name.

Well Christianwarrior, if that is your name in truth, you have that all wrong.

Thankfully believers follow the commands of Christ, as the new covenant superseded the old covenant, which was to the Jews, this new one is to the world in general, i.e. anyone can enter in, the temple doors are open and the curtain is torn apart, we all have access to the Holy of Holies wherever we are.

In this New Testament Kingdom of God, we have a new commandment:

2 Timothy 4:2 - Amplified Bible (AMP)

Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.

God does not command His people to kill others, He commands us to REACH them, and this does seem to have reached many atheists, only God will know how many actually come to faith at some point before they meet Him.

Sean Blickfeldt

I can see that you are writing this with the intention of spreading love and defending your beliefs. How ever it is not about an "Us vs them" thing. Faith is supposed to be a personal belief not about battling with people that don't believe in the same man in the sky as you do. I was raised in a very strict off shoot of Christianity and had genuine fear of what would happen if i were to question the parts of the story that clearly didn't add up. But i questioned them anyways. I have found a profound peace in releasing myself from the bounds of religion. From the outside you are free to think and question everything in unclouded reasoning.

Sean, I’m delighted you are happy with your new found unbelief, I will take your first line as a spot of parody, as this article was not written to be “spreading love and defending your beliefs” it was written in much the same way as a warning notice would be placed besides the ‘employees entrance’ to a dangerous area of the plant, something to remind them of basic safety rules and codes of behavior to ensure that they completed their task uninterrupted by the dangerous forces they may meet there.

Offshoots of anything are always a problem, I avoid them also, but avoiding Churchianity is not the same as avoiding Christ, I hold a relationship with Christ outside of any Churchianity relationship, I visit churches, I rarely speak unless asked to, and when I speak generally it will upset some of the good Churchians, but some will open their eyes and take on board that Christ is still wanting a personal relationship first, before we can work with others.

Most sections of Churchianity get waylaid, even with the best of intentions, into semi corporate situations, and why not, you have lawyers and accountants as members, why not use them?

Because many times they are world living folk, not Kingdom people, they see through a world coloured filter screen, when they should be seeing it from a Kingdom perspective.

The enemies greatest assets are two things, first most folk don't believe he exists, and secondly he manages to divert Christians into performing Churchianity, which drives sincere seekers back into his (the enemies) loving all accepting arms, a world where anything goes and you can justify anything away.

A world where self reliance and atheism is perfectly acceptable and to be commended, a world controlled by your own enemy, and you by default assist him in ensnaring you, with each atheist baiting the trap of the next person who has decided they are their own god.

Sean Blickfeldt

I have studied a lot of the other religious and currant and old. frankly the reason you are most likely christian is simply because of the place you were born and who forced you to submit to their teachings. If you were born in India you would most likely be Hindu or Buddhist, Japan, Shinto, or if you were born in the middle east you would be some sect of Muslim. (Scary thought huh?) If Constantine didn't decide that he wanted the empire to switch to Christianity because it was easier to unit under one god then all of the former roman gods you would believe in their mythology. As you roll your eyes at me and say in your head, "I don't believe in any of those other gods", even though billions of others, believe as much in them, as much as you believe in yours. We atheist stand with you in your none belief in them, we just don't believe in one more. Belief in a god was created for a substitute for when we couldn't understand something.

If you had read my hub profile and some of my articles, you would know that I came to faith at 41 years of age, after a lifetime of unbelief. Your hypothesis above may answer a lot of questions in your mind as to how I could believe something you find “man in the sky” but I don’t actually fit your invented scenario.

Has it ever occurred to you that God can determine where my place and time of birth would be?

And that if God wanted me born into a good spiritual environment for His seeds to mature and grow, He can just as easily deploy me in the Northern Hemisphere, or anywhere else He wants me to be placed.

Yes I was born in the UK, after my grandfather turned left for England rather than right for America when he abandoned Ireland in 1841.

I abandoned England starting in 1979, and finishing the abandonment by 1985, when I relocated to Spain, I left Spain in 2010, when the writing was on the wall that it was going bust, and I had lost a couple of million Euros on a land development that went bust, due to the bankers crisis.

I now live in Penang, Malaysia, in a mainly Muslim country, and love it.

I am hardly cloistered in some monastic surround separated from the rest of humanity, and Penang has a rich cultural foundation with three main people groups (Chinese/Malay and Tamil Indian) as well as a wide selection of religious beliefs, and I have friends of all faiths and none.

The old 'one more religion we don't believe in' line must be in the Athiest Handbook (page 101) because I hear it so many times dropped into any post that seeks to validate the atheists cause, and it is a cause, because the militant fundies want religion de-constructed, and the 'congregation' would be content if only we would stop talking about Christ.

Sean Blickfeldt

Why are religious people at odds with scientists? Because they are shining a light of how things really work debunking the myths that have been created before to explain them. It is the pride in the belief in these myths that has always attempted to silence reason. Poor Socrates, Copernicus, and Galileo all suffered because of the pride of "faithful" men.


Science started out (heavily sponsored by the Illuminatii and the RCC) establishing how God created things, it was a search for answers to mysteries, as well as containment of powers, that promoted early science.

There has always been an undercurrent of resistance between science and religion, and that increased when science began to try and disprove God; and as the powers of the RCC, waned over ‘Christendom’ and knowledge was released from the censorship that it’s sponsors had imposed.

I do not dispute these facts and obviously benefit from the scientific developments that have improved our lives, equally I an detrimentally affected by the blights that science unleashed has imposed upon us.

The very technology that has freed us to communicate as we may is equally the technology that has stripped us of any privacy and true freedom of expression.

Had we been having these communications in a pre IT age, they would have been by letter, we would have pondered each question asked, asked precise questions in return, and provided considered answers when we replied, plus have two weeks to ruminate on whether the other correspondent had a point to be considered.

Today we read, then react to a post and hit send.

That’s a shame, I have spent 20 years considering my replies, and I think I have now seen just about every wriggle that a liar can make to avoid that which they are concerned about.

Unklegwar

"so please do not waste time arguing how I am completely mistaken about atheists or who pulls their strings."

So, you admit to refusing to listen to any reason or correction. You insist that your audience only consists on people who already agree with your incorrect understanding of atheism. You are preaching to the choir, as it were, and so, really, just like to hear yourself talk.

Providing "tips on dealing with atheists" loses its usefulness and validity if you (1) don't correctly understand Atheism and (2) refuse to accept correction and instruction.

To use an analogy (kinda like a Parable, and you Bible folks love those things), would you listen to, or put any stock or faith in someone telling you how to fix your car if they (1) Have no idea what a car does or how it works and (2) refuse to listen to or learn from a car engineer or mechanic? No. You'd dismiss everything they say.

And so it is with your "tips". You can make all the tips you want, but by refusing to be educated, your lack of understanding of your subject matter renders your "advice" useless and reduces it to so much hot air, to be shared only by others who share your cluelessness and determination to stay that way.

Down2Earth

You guys do know what faith means, right?

It's funny when a guy hears voices in his head, and it isn't god, he's insane... but if it's God word, it's alright.

Makes Perfect sense?

Besides, God is going to have to do a lot more than whisper things in my ear to make me believe in him. Ignorance is bliss to a point... well, it really depends on what part of the world you're living in. Funny how other parts of the world have to be taught the one "true faith".

Think I already replied to this standard objection above, take a look, think it was covered.

Well the intention was to reach believers, though I am delighted that it has come to the attention of the faithless also.

"...just like to hear yourself talk."

Not exactly, you see this is a writing site, we hubbers write, we write about anything we wish to, some folk eulogize about coffee machines and Rolex watches, I write Christian articles mainly aimed at Christians’.

I have no need or desire to address atheists they have made their choice, it is no further concern of mine.

Apart from describing what is the true spiritual condition of them.

"Providing "tips on dealing with atheists" loses its usefulness and validity..."

Read above, even better read my other hubs, you will soon see that I see no validity in dealing with atheists anyway.

I only address atheists to stop them disrupting things.

I see your point; perhaps these tips are so disruptive to your cause, exposing the true colors, so to speak, that you (or the spiritual forces guiding you) feel obliged to offer me your obvious considerable knowledge of what not believing in God amounts to.

You perhaps wish to assist me in reaching atheists more effectively?

So far I have been accused of not having ever been ‘angst’ enough over deciding to reject God, for me to have ever been a true atheist, and it seems, (though I cannot think why) that atheists also must have an induction course, before they can be considered a true atheist.

Rather strange I think, to have things I need to understand before I can write a spiritually based account of how to deal with people I have been dealing with for 20 years and have been one of for 20 years before that.

I grant you that I was never an atheist militant brigade member, but then again, to me it was simply the rejection of God, who I accounted did not affect or exist in my life, and then a total disinterest in anything religious, until I discovered spiritual forces that I found interesting to deal with.

Then I played on the enemies team for a few years before I came to Christ.

So if I become submissive to atheist writers they will teach me how to reach deep into the psyche of atheists huh!

Never going to happen.

Peter Kavelin

Need to make a counter point here. You guys say that Atheists are strident because secretly we believe, it's just that we hate God. You also say we're hateful of you and under the control of Satan.

Well, let me just say that 3 out of 4 of my favorite people who I love dearly on Earth are believers.

What's the reason I stridently confront you on your Christianity? Simple. Because you believe I will fry for eternity, that stem cell research should be denied, that there will be a global apocalypse any day now that you should look forward to, and many other offensive premises.

I try to point out the ridiculousness of what people say because likely, that was how people stopped believing in Thor, a flat earth, Zeus, racism, sexism, etc. They stopped believing because enough people laughed them off. Christianity will wane for the same reason.

I think conversational intolerance is a good thing.

K Rodgers

"Is there any point you continuing this charade if you just delete any reasonable voice?"

"I notice my post was removed, which is very odd as I was extremely polite - maybe that doesn't suit how you wish to portray us atheists?"

Apologies K Rodgers, I probably deleted you along wioth the plethora of inane comments I also received, send it again if you have a point to make.

Luke 21:36

Keep awake then and watch at all times [be discreet, attentive, and ready], praying that you may have the full strength and ability and be accounted worthy to escape all these things [taken together] that will take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man.

Then you will find no offence in what I write, if you find conversational intolerance a good thing!

Peter we have previously corresponded and I hope we have a peace about who we respectively are.

First, if you read my works progressively, you will see that I do not propose that you “fry for eternity", that stem cell research should be denied, or that there will be a global apocalypse any day now.

I welcome stem cell research, I have alternative opinions on the subject of hellfire, and yes I do see the prophesies being fulfilled and that does mean we get to see the end of the book come about, and possibly we may be the generation that sees the truth revealed.

But that does not pleasure me, for when that happens, then humanity will be due one of the worst periods of annihilation that will ever have passed.

The majority of the slaughter will not be done by God, but by the enemy we all share, and which unfortunately we are all born under the dominion of.

I chose to switch my allegiance, ownership and authority over to God, via Christ and now have citizenship outside ot this world domain, and have ‘residency’ in the Kingdom of God.

I am a ‘stranger in a strange land’ awaiting orders back to home base.

To you this may seem ridiculous, and I can appreciate that; for if what I state is truth, then those who are still residents of this world system, owned by the power that controls it, will suffer a much worse fate on earth than they are liable to receive from God when they are dead.

In case you are unaware, the masters of this particular planet are planning to ‘scientifically’ reduce the population from it’s current 7 billion mark, to 500,000 souls left to serve them.

Those selected to serve them, will in effect have won the lottery for their lives, with odds of 14,000:1 against their survival, the remainder will be taken out by manmade war, pestilence and plagues.

If what I believe is correct, that this WILL happen, should I not tell you about that?

From fear of offending you?

If I am wrong, and you have staked your eternal existence that it is wrong, then you have nothing to worry about except enjoying the life faithlessness gave you, and when we die, it makes not one jot of difference.

The only instruction I find for these times is to watch and pray in order to be accounted worthy. Frankly, I will follow that advice.

Atheist peace

I cannot believe you deleted that. It was constructive and to the point. But at least you proved your bias. Fact will not be beaten by fiction. Just make sure you enjoy this life. Its the only one we have.

It was not deleted; it was kept for response from me.

Adam "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” -Matthew 16:28

"When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes." -Matthew 10:23

"Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place." -Luke 21:32

Jesus said he'd be back before the apostles made it throughout Israel then said he'd be back before the people listening to him speak would all be dead. He isn't coming back if he was even here to begin with. See, I don't even need to go outside of your inconsistent, error-ridden book to refute Christian nonsense.

You have evidence? "For we walk by faith, not by sight." -2 Corinthians 5:7 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." -Hebrews 11:1 The Bible doesn't even claim to have evidence because its writers knew there wasn't any.

How's that for paraphrasing? No matter how long you were a "non-believer" that doesn't make you any authority on how atheists/agnostics/whatever think or operate. My greatest source of disbelief and anti-Christian arguments come from the Bible, verbatim.

2 Peter 3:2-4 Amplified Bible

That you should recall the predictions of the holy (consecrated, dedicated) prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior [given] through your apostles (His special messengers).

To begin with, you must know and understand this, that scoffers (mockers) will come in the last days with scoffing, [people who] walk after their own fleshly desires.

And say, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the forefathers fell asleep, all things have continued exactly as they did from the beginning of creation."

Then unfortunately you were unable to understand the context and manner in which the scriptures were intended.

We can approach the bible looking for the 'loopholes' that will allow us to dismiss it, or we can challenge them and seek to understand how they happened.

Invariably this leads back to earlier translations, which may well have been written with a political angle provided to maintain control over the masses (that's you and me) or just miscontrued. Most challenges have a solution to be found, those that cannot be resolved are those that are still relating to the future.

The bible is a history book of mans relationshiop with God, from the start of time to the present, but also a reference book for the future history.

When a believer approaches it with a broken spirit and a contrite heart, God reveals things to the believer, progressively, as they need to know.

So don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The verses you challenged on were predictive and have seen near fulfilment many times in history, God also put a stark warning about folk, just like yourself, making statements concerning those precise verses.

There is the aspect of timelessness there, a generation can also mean as long as man walks the earth, there is ambiguity and you are reasonable to have challenged it, but it would pay better dividends if you sought to establish that it was wrong.

In effect you left the cinema when the first scene offended you, but in reality we have decided previously that we will not like the film, and so leave at the first possible moment..

genea: race, family, generation

Original Word: γενεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: genea
Phonetic Spelling: (ghen-eh-ah')
Short Definition: a generation
Definition: a generation; if repeated twice or with another time word, practically indicates infinity of time.

Word Origin
from ginomai
Definition
race, family, generation
NASB Word Usage
generation (32), generations (10), kind (1).

But Matthew 24 tells a different picture, another angle of the same aspect, and in those verses there are conditions that must be met before Christ returns, conditions Christ Himself describes and lays out, and one of the main things we are to watch and pray over is when ALL of these things come together, THEN the time is near.

Many times we get accused of looking forward to the end, I have detailed above why I do not relish seeing the end take place, it will be a nightmare to live in those times.

But I cannot stop reporting all the indicators that I see happening, and shoutinga warning, if folk ignore that warning, then so be it, their problem, not mine.

My problem would be if I stayed silent.

Akshay

Interesting read, you seem to be a very resolute person with deeply entrenched views, but then we must appear the same to u. Well thank u for 'allowing for atheists’ existence, but (despite ur note at beginning) I must protest at foisting upon atheists a common purpose of Satan’s work. For instance, I was born Hindu so does Satan recruit among non-Christians too!

I personally feel its OK if others choose to believe in deity/ies, as long it doesn’t impinge upon others. It is that enthusiasm for a secular environment which, I fear, gave rise to points 8 and 9.I concede to the point abt religious people not intruding upon an atheist forum, but(and I speak ONLY for MYSELF here) that may simply be bcoz we tend to be an under-represented minority eager for a platform to share views.

Another aspect, I find disturbing is ur fixation on Christ, bible etc(following ur comment 4 weeks ago “As for Islam, any believer who knows their bible will also know that Islam is a false religion”).

U do realize Christians are abt a third of world’s population. Are u dooming over a billion of my countrymen (Indians) to eternal damnation despite being mostly religious simply bcoz our ancestors came up with a different, equally good(imo) set of morality myths. At least allow for the fact that there is no false religion,(most religious people do in my knowledge).

Finally, I say it without malice, most atheists wud be unmoved by those arguments. But perhaps they wud help support a theist in moments of doubt, which I guess ur original pupose was.

My original purpose was to assist believer who were new to HubPages forums and help them identify the trolls who tag team in them, with the sole intent on disrupting discussions about belief, in the religious forums.

Now to answer your other point, there are two sources of power in this world, God and the enemy, who you correctly identify as Satan, but who is also called Lucifer, and whom I simply call ‘the enemy’.

We are ALL born into the kingdom of this world, whose controlling power is the enemy, we are also able to change our ‘citizenship’ from the kingdom of the world, to the kingdom of heaven.

Everyone’s choice.

The enemy has established many false religions to confound, confuse and deceive folk, we have to pick the right choice and reject the rest.

If your friends of other faiths are 100% CONVINCED that they are following the right route to God, so be it, their choice, I see it differently, having elected to follow Christ when I was given the opportunity to examine the evidence of who He is, and decided He is who He states He is.

It is not my concern what decision anyone else makes, for or against religion, which is their duty and right.

I do have a responsibility to tell folk about WHY I chose to follow Christ, and put my authority under His authority.

If you feel differently so be it, your choice.

I am not condemning anyone to anything, I am telling you what the bible states, and having decided for myself that the bible is the word of God to mankind, after reading other religious holy books, it makes sense to me to tell folk.

I also have Muslim friends, and find that they also love God, but they have been born into a system that ONLY allows them to read their Quran, and taught not to challenge it, so they are acquiescent to their religious and political leaders.

Do you think I have not pondered why they would miss out on God for simply worshipping a false version of God?

It's identity theft on a grand scale, but if someone truly LOVES God, then I am sure that God reveals Himself through His Holy Spirit to these folk, and they can know and relish the truth silently for fear of reprisal if they openly convert, unless and until someone challenges them over their belief openly, when they need to decide whether they will confess Christ, or stay silent or dismissive.

All down to personal choice, and we all make it. If I am wrong, and Allah is the same God as Jehovah, then Allah/Jehovah can judge me on my intentions.

I find many aspects of the Islamic faith very good, indeed I feel safer living in a moderate Muslim state than I did in "Christian' Europe, and I have no intention or desire to attack the religion, I have looked at it, and had I discovered it first, before I came to Christ, then it may well have satisfied my seeking, and I may well have been a Muslim.

But I had read the bible first, and as a former typesetter and proof reader, I could spot that the author of the Torah and the new covenant with Christ, were the same, whereas the author of the Quoran is not the same as the other earlier books.

You train bank clerks to spot counterfeit notes NOT by showing them the counterfeit, but by making them very familiar with the real thing.

Atheist peace

Il be honest and say I couldnt watch it as it was not available on my phone, but I read the blurb, and I visited the links. Its the same old creationist debate. All the proof is there if you look and as far as solid fact is concerned, we can prove that everything we know can occur naturally without god as far back as the big bang. From there, we havent found out yet but as that wouevld disprove all major religions completely that is why we have to debate with theists, and the creation.... well I will call it hypothesis for the sake of arguement. This hypothesis is asserted without proof, evidence or any logical basis. It can be disproved easily as it is completely unscientific in its statement. That is why these people are not allowed to teach science, because what they are doing is against every scientific principle. The subject matter is irrelevant. Please tho, if I am wrong about the content of the video,let me know.

You will never be able to decide unless you watch it, I've posted it here again, I cannot tell you whether you would accept or deny what is presented.

These people are suggesting that science should invest some research into what is presented as an alternative version of how we got here, and like you said IF science could "disprove all major religions completely that is why we have to debate with theists, and the creation...."

But it has NOT reached that solution yet, and frankly I doubt science will ever be able to know the truth UNTIL they witness it happening all around them.

By which time it will have been a test tube too far.

Anything which stifles free speech and the right to experiment in unknown territory is wrong, and science was just as wrong about washing doctors hands, until they made a better telescope that could see bacteria, which changed their minds and stopped thousands of women dying in childbirth.

When writing a scientific article that contains the words Intelligent design can get you castigated and expelled from the 'scientific community' then vested interested are protecting their claims for reasons of profit and power.

Science is the new religion, and like it's predecessors' is stifling any dissent in order to maintain it's power and position gained.

if I missed you out....

The above are not all of the posts sent, but I think from what is written, anyone can work out where I stand on things, if you have more complaints, send them in, if this has dealt with the matter, great, I can get back to my life and you can get back to yours.

More by this Author


Comments, please feel free to make them.... 26 comments

aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 3 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Say Yes To Life, thanks for commenting.

I'm not going to judge Billy Joel either, or any other atheist, but I do hold the right (and indeed obligation in scripture) to warn them of their decision and how it separates them from God.

I'm also not big on rules (read your profile) and thank God that through Christ ALONE I am acceptable to God, that as a believer and disciple of Christ I am empowered to take back the kingdom of the world and bring forward the kingdom of God.

I can understand how anybody who lost family in the camps would question Gods love, but that can never lead to us questioning God. If God was responsible, so be it, but He was not responsible, our enemy, who goes around like a roaring lion seeking to destroy those he may (and especially the people of God) was responsible.

Maybe Billy Joel should become and enemy of Gods enemies instead?

May the peace that surpasses all understanding be with you all the days of your life.


Say Yes To Life profile image

Say Yes To Life 3 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

I believe in God, but I'm not about to attack atheists. I find great significance that Billy Joel is an atheist. His father was in the concentration camp Dachau, which I've actually visited. I understand he and his father had an acrimonious relationship, but I'm sure he's aware being in a concentration camp shaped his personality. No doubt Billy Joel has conflicts regarding a loving and all-knowing God who would allow such things to happen - especially to His "chosen" ones.

No way in the world am I going to judge Billy Joel, not having stood in his shoes.


Lybrah 3 years ago

Thanks for writing this article. I've had some interesting conversations with some athiests on here...


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 3 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Thanks Diane!


dianetrotter profile image

dianetrotter 3 years ago from Fontana

I love it! Clever, entertaining, informative answers to ridiculous complaints.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 3 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Thanks James, I would like to say I enjoyed doing it, but like so many other things it was repeating the same thing I have told folk many times.

Pulling teeth comes to mind!

John :)


James A Watkins profile image

James A Watkins 3 years ago from Chicago

John,

You have done a marvelous job dealing with the comments of these atheists. I enjoyed reading your Hub. It is wonderfully made. God Bless You Brother!

james


Ceegen profile image

Ceegen 4 years ago from Maine, USA

Awesome hub, brother-in-Christ!


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

I may do that, brother. I'll have to pray about it. I have a lot of work to do in my community and other efforts where I don't have to hide. I don't really care if I am first in line for a beheading, I was dead already, anyway. I am living on borrowed time.

I believe the internet is from the devil and will be used to usher in the reign of the anti-christ. This venue is a prime example of one branch of his service. You may be interested in "HubPages - What is a hub. How to make money on the internet". It could be on my site. I'm not saying.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 4 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

No, not the Gestapo, just someone who works openly, but knows how to do 'that sort of stuff' from a past life!

All I'm saying is you can do what you are doing better than you are doing it! and whichever character you are using, your worth keeping around!

Email me if you want to know how to be truly anonymous on the web...

aguasilver at gmail dot com

John


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

I'm hardly worried about it. I have wasted enough time with this pathetic venue already. There's no money in it.

For all I know, you are the HP police. Who else would know all of that proxy server stuff?


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 4 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

OK, your tribe of ghosts seem alive and well, but when you use proxy servers you need to switch each time you post:

66.87.0.222

Country Code State/Region

US MARYLAND

City Postal Code

KENSINGTON 20891

ISP Time Zone

SPRINT NEXTEL CORPORATION -05:00

Latitude Longitude

39.02567 -77.07637

Map data ©2012 Google - Terms of Use

Map

IP Address

66.87.0.222

Country Code State/Region

US -

City Postal Code

- -

ISP Area Code

Sprint PCS -

Latitude Longitude

38.0 -97.0

Read more: http://www.whatismyip.com/tools/ip-address-lookup....

P Address

66.87.4.14

Country Code State/Region

US TENNESSEE

City Postal Code

KNOXVILLE 37901

ISP Time Zone

SPRINT NEXTEL CORPORATION -05:00

Latitude Longitude

35.96064 -83.92074

Map data ©2012 Google - Terms of Use

Map

IP Address

66.87.4.14

Country Code State/Region

US -

City Postal Code

- -

ISP Area Code

Sprint PCS -

Latitude Longitude

38.0 -97.0

Read more: http://www.whatismyip.com/tools/ip-address-lookup....

GhostSurf is good, but you pay for it, Expat Shield is free but annoying as they use pop overs when you are logged in, but a small price to pay for real anonymity.

Either way, appreciated, but don't get busted by the HP police.


WD Curry 111 profile image

WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

I see some of my friends stopped by to visit. I don't need the tips, I am never allowed to post on the forums again. My dear, gentle, buddy, Sawfishlagoon got banned completely. His telling interaction with the neo-pagans has disappeared as well. Interesting censorship don't you think? I don't believe that ilk cares much for those who are not in their coven or under their spell.

How were your guesses, close?


Lavoris Palmolive profile image

Lavoris Palmolive 4 years ago from O Town

I got four words for those atheists. Get right with God.


RednecksForObama profile image

RednecksForObama 4 years ago from deep south

They need to respect the Good Lord and his president.


Suzie Crumcakes profile image

Suzie Crumcakes 4 years ago from Fellsmere

I have one reply for atheists. Jesus loves you.


KMI Rebel Yell profile image

KMI Rebel Yell 4 years ago

I appreciate your tips. However, my dear man, I am quite adept at seizing opportunities as the Lord serves them up. I think the one where I caught ATM preaching the gospel was a gift just for you.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 4 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Thanks gmwilliams, I will admit that this is probably my most contentious hub, because those who believe understand it fully, whereas those who do not, tend to view it as a direct attack and react to it negatively.

Having said that, it scores consistently with readers, so apart from the fact that I cannot see how to commercialise it, I'm content!


gmwilliams profile image

gmwilliams 4 years ago from the Greatest City In The World-New York City, New York

This is a very intelligent and enlightening hub. There are those who vehemently disagree with us and want to spar. I had such a person on one of my hubs. Aquasilver, pay no attention to such people. Some people become quite phobically perturbed when intelligent issues are presented. Have a Very Blessed Sunday!


CJ Sledgehammer 4 years ago

Even though your efforts probably are not appreciated by the spiritually blind...it is clear that this was a labor of love.

This Hub was articulate, thoughtful, and concise...well done, John!!!

May God be with you and yours - C.J. Sledgehammer

Voted up and away!!!


50 Caliber profile image

50 Caliber 4 years ago from Arizona

Hi John,

A great to and fro, and you put it straight as to your stance of Bible teaching beats churchianity, and I can think of one exception and that is I think Sunday school classes that teach bible stories to children where they attend and are content with the stories of characters, Johnah, Noah David and Goliath, anyway you get my drift I'm sure. Forcing them to sit through sermons to me is cruel, until they are old enough to reap the word, yet I still think home schooling is best after the social network of children singing the children songs and having fun a great time for churchianity. After that I spend time with other like minds that can communicate and back up their thoughts with the bible.

Great voted up

Blessings,

dust


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio

I never go into forums except for my hub, but this was a very good hub. Thank you for sharing this wonderful information.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines

Thoughtfully done, John. Very nice. I keep learning.

I like the lead graphic -- nothing exploding. That about sums it up. LOL!


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 4 years ago from Malaga, Spain Author

Hi cruelkindness..

No offence taken, and no elephant in the room, I am blatant in using whatever to bring Christ and the need to decide to as wide an audience as possible, the elephant is in fact painted bright yellow so that he cannot be ignored!

Thanks for voting up, even if only for 'creativeness' I take that as a compliment....

....and thanks for reading!

michiganman567, thanks for reading also, I am sure the atheists will make their appreciation known to me!

John


michiganman567 profile image

michiganman567 4 years ago from Michigan

You are a busy and thoughtful man. I hope that all of those atheists will take the time to say thank you for the time that you took to write out your responses to their questions.


cruelkindness profile image

cruelkindness 4 years ago from an angle view.

Taking a subject that has such high tension and fierce conflict. Were only you will reap the benefits with traffic. Bravo on being clever. I will vote up, please don't take offence for my comment, I am merely complimenting you for your creativeness. I just like to frame the elephant in the rooms, that's all.

Cruelkindness (Subliminally Thoughtless)

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