Science and Islam proved by quran

Part Five in the what you don't but should know about Islam series.


Science and Islam.

"Religion without science is blind and science without religion is lame," Albert Einstein.

"The Qur'an contains infinitely more precise details [than many scientific discoveries today] which are directly related to facts discovered by modern science: these are what exercise a magnetic attraction for today's scientists. It is not faith in Islam that first guided my steps, but simple research for the truth. [What led me to this conviction was the fact that it would be unthinkable] for a man of Muhammad's (pbuh) time to have been the author of such statements on account of the state of knowledge in his days."

Dr. Maurice Bucaille, an eminent medical scientist and a member of the French Academy of Medicine. He is the author of the book entitled "The Bible, The Qur'an and Science."

Many people debate about science and religion. How they fit together. Does one discredit the other? Should they be separate from one another? Or does God use science to help us? Does God reveal Himself to us through science? Muslims surely believe this. Science was used in the Qur’an, by a way of verifying everything the prophets said. It gives man the chance to see for himself that which God has created. God encourages man to use a scientific approach in the Qur’an. Here are some examples Muslims were given by God to prove science and religion go hand in hand and should not be separate;

" Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire. " Qur'an 3:191

“ Do the unbelievers not realize that the heavens and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into existence? And from water we made all living things? Would they believe?” Qur’an 21:30


This sounds a lot like the big bang theory does it not? How did Muhammad know about the big bang 1400 years before science?

Islam and science are not different; the in fact they are one and the same. You can not have one without the other. Without science there is no Islam, and without Islam there is no science. This is the way Allah created it. Science goes to prove Islam, and therefore it is not in conflict with the laws of Islam. To prove Muhammad(pbuh) was a true Prophet, God revealed things to him to but into the Qur'an, hundreds of years before science would know about it. There are many examples of this throughout the Qur'an, every thing from: germs, mold, earth science, to the process of birth, and so much more. In fact the entire birth process was revealed by Muhammad(pbuh) 1100 years before science knew about it. People look at the Qur'an as a religious text only, when it is so much more.

"Do they not carefully consider (investigate) the Qur'an or are there locks upon their hearts." Qur'an 47:24

Keith L. Moore wrote a college textbook on the subject of embryology: "The Developing Human, Clinically Oriented Embryology" third edition With Islamic additions correlation studies with Qur'an and Hadith through the aid of, Abdul Majeed A. Azzindani. Moore, was a christian, and was so impressed by the accuracy the Qur'an contained on the birth process, from fertilization to birth that he added verses from the Qur'an to his textbook and made it a standard in his class that students must learn this. The fact that Muhammad(pbuh) described this process 1400 years before science knew about it, is mind blowing.

"Do they not consider the Qur'an? Had it been from any other than God, they would surely, have found there in much discrepancy." Qur'an 4:82

“It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God.” Keith L. Moore, Professor Emeritus, University of Toronto

"Say the Qur'an was sent down by Him who knows the secrets (that is) the heavens and Earth." Qur'an 25:6

Dr. Moore was a former President of the Canadian Association of Anatomists, and of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists. He was honored by the Canadian Association of Anatomists with the prestigious J.C.B. Grant Award and in 1994 he received the Honored Member Award of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists "for outstanding contributions to the field of clinical anatomy."

Oh yeah did I mention he is or at least was a Christian when this book was written.

"O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much). And (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth in pairs." Qur'an Al-Hajj verse 5

If you read the descriptions of birth, it is exactly as it happens. When the birth process starts, the embryo look like a blood clot, then a leech and feeds like a leech. It then goes on to say t it looks like a morsel of flesh what this means is; then the embryo looks like a piece of chewed meat. Actually it looks exactly as such, the best comparison in modern time is: a piece of chewed gum with teeth marks in it.

“But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!” Qur'an As-Sajda verse 9

Once again knowing the birthing process, you would know that in the beginning the human child in the womb is not proportioned well, until it is time for birth.

“Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)? Then did he become a clinging clot; then did (Allah) make and fashion (him) in due proportion.” Qur'an Al-Qiyama verse 37-38

The verses about the embryo are my favorite, but there are many many more verses, and scientific proofs in the Qur'an. So science is Islam and Islam is science. God created us all, and He created all that we love and do. He created us to be very intelligent, and He knew we would be bored without a means to understand God and his creation. He gave us science to better understand Him and to know more about ourselves and our environment, He did this knowing that we would love this and it would be a way for us to Glorify Him even further. To love Him more and to thank Him for giving us such a beautiful gift, and not only giving us a way to love it but to know it and understand it. As humans we are programed to be curious, and to seek answers to the questions of the universe. Many of us seek understanding everyday, we just want to know. The most commonly asked question is probably, "WHY?". We always want to know why.

Another great example of the science in the Qur'an. Think of space and galaxies, and dust clouds and how stars and planets are formed. How did a man know 1400 years ago know about the formation of planets stars and galaxies? Think of all the pictures of the universe that Hubble showed us, now take that and compare it to the verses of the Qur'an, here is just one example: This verse is about the creation of the universe,

" Then He (God) turned to the sky, and it had been (as) smoke (dukhaan): He said to it and to the earth: come together, willingly or unwillingly. They said: we do come (together) in willing obedience." Qur'an 41:11

What about the universe's expansion, of course the Qur'an doesn't mention that? How could a man know about these things that long ago if there is no God to tell him.God tell us in the Qur'an that the universe is indeed expanding in this verse:

"The heaven, We have built it with power. Verily, we are expanding it." Qur'an 51:47

Almost every major scientist has acknowledged God at one time or another in their lifetime. Yet people always use their work to try and disprove the God that loves us so much. They use God's own knowledge to trick and lie to the people of the world.

What about geology? 1400 years ago God revealed to Muhammad(pbuh) that the crust of the earth moves, and told him about the plates of the crusts of the earth. He told him how mountains are formed and how earthquakes happen. Really, what was the growing theory of earthquakes 1400 years ago? And now we know that mountains grow or shrink at roughly the same pace that our thumb nails grow.

"When you look at mountains, you think that they stand still. Bye they are moving, like the clouds. Such is the manufacture of God, who perfected everything. He is knowing of everything you do." Qur'an 27:88

These are just a few examples of how science is used in the Qur'an, and how God reveals Himself to us, using science. There are many websites that offer fair amount of information on science in Islam. I will list a few of those sites for you, so that you may do some research on your own, if you chose to do so.

This website below offers many, many examples of science in the Qur'an. I found this site to be very interesting and suggest it to any one interested in science. http://www.islamicity.com/Science/iqs/

Here is another website that covers many subjects, and it looks cool. The home page is nice and flashy. LOL. It is a good read as well. http://scienceislam.com/

This "HUB" is dedicated to my butterfly, without this person my soul would be lost, and I would be a lonely man. Thank you for guiding me to Islam, and showing me all of the information I needed to become a Muslim. Thank you for being such a great friend, and all the support you have given. You truly are my best friend, and such a kind caring person. This world needs more people like you. Without you none of this would be possible. May God bless you always, and may all you do prosper in the name of God.

Also I owe thanks to all the scientist and educators of this world. Without you we would all be lost and wondering. The knowledge you pass along helps this world become a better place everyday. May God continue to guide you in your searches for knowledge and wisdom, and may God bless you with the strong minds needed to solve the puzzles God has given to us.

Remember people that the Qur'an isn't just a religious text. Its so much more. Use it to educate yourselves. It is full of so much knowledge and I am willing to bet it has science we don't even know about yet. Thank you all for taking the time to read my work. I hope you enjoyed it, and in shaa Allah my next blog will be about life after death and what Islam says about it, and in shaa Allah, it will be out by the middle of the week.

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Comments 99 comments

Hend 7 years ago

Randal , you are right , this is the best one . God bless you friend. Looking forward to the coming one


Hend 7 years ago

Randal , you are right , this is the best one . God bless you friend. Looking forward to the coming one


Hend 7 years ago

Randal , you are right , this is the best one . God bless you friend. Looking forward to the coming one


GeniusMuslim 7 years ago

Superb!! but check your mail first...

awesome writing seriously and thanx for the links


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pintails7886 7 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Thankyou Hend I am glad you liked it. I liked it very much, research on this topic was so much fun. I can't wait for my next hub, isA I may have time for two this weekend, I hope anyways. Did you check out the links I posted? There is so much more info there its amazing, If I can find out how, I will post the slide show on the birth process, that is if the doctor says I can. But he already told me to share it with everyone, but I don't know if he had the internet in mind when he said that.:)

GM, I saw the email about Islam and space. Thanks for the references, isA I will look over them and add the extra content to the Hub or maybe do one on space alone. It truly is awsome the amount of science in the Qur'an. I think I could write for a month and not cover it all.


Nia L 7 years ago

Great hub. Its good to see that you are trying to spread awareness about Islam.


science in Islam 6 years ago

I think there is a misconception here.Sciece by its very nature is not definitive.And the foundation of Islam cannot be built on a shaky grounds.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Well science in Islam, I will not claim to know Gods will but I am simply reading the quran, the science in it and that words where Allah tells us to use science. I am but a humble servant. If science is from Allah as the quran says, then its not so shaky. though some of the modern science is. but if it is from Allah as the science i have listed is in the Quran, then it is not shaky.


salaheddine zantout 6 years ago

salamo'alaykom brother yusuf

masha'alla its agreat article thought i didn't read it all

einstein said :

whenever i doubt that there is a god to this universe... i look at his creatures


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Yes he did brother. Thank you for your kind words.


gulnazahmad profile image

gulnazahmad 6 years ago from Pakistan

awesome piece of information. Quran is the best book which can educate about any topic in the world and definitely there is so much about science in Quran that is still to be understood by us.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Agreed,of late I have become lazy in my study, but I know my hub barley scratches the surface of the subject. Inshaa Allah I will continue my study into this topic and see what else I can come up with. It takes some time to find and decipher this amount of information for some one like me, still so young in Islam. Though I do thank Allah for revealing such things to me, inshaa Allah I will learn much more and spread this knowledge to others in the near future. Thank you again for your kind words.


StopS 6 years ago

What a load of nonsense. I wish a Muslim would just for once try to prove the accuracy in depth of only one of these claims.


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Freya Cesare 6 years ago from Borneo Island, Indonesia

StopS, if you don't have better argumentation than that, you should not just open your mouth and give bad comment. Tell us here, where you see the nonsense, and better if you do it one by one. I think we, mostly me, and I believe my brother Pintails here too, want to know your understanding on this subject which caused you say what you already said in your comment.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

StopS I think science has proved every claim I just made. Im sorry to burst your bubble but many millions have muslims and non muslims alike have already proved these claims.


JoyBoard 6 years ago

Sorry, did not read your entire article since I stopped after the Big Bang and how Muhammad could know about it 1400 before science.

Well he did not, because science is older than Muhammad.

The Greek Philosopher Leucippus and Democritus already 500 years BC formulate an atomic theory for the cosmos. Something normal people at that time would never believe or ever understand. Was it god who told them? And if yes? What god? Zeus? Athena? Hermes?

And that was 800-900 years before Muhammad. So they had lot more time to improve on these Theories, so maybe Muhammad have heard about it?

And what science does and religions people not do, is also to count the misses. If you have a book with some “hits” some things that turn out to be true (even it is not always clearly written) you also have to count the “misses” the parts where the book is wrong or other things that I as human like to know. And know I not know the Qur’an but I know the Holy Bible and Torah are losing this one. Well and since Muhammad not really was the first about Big Bang, well one miss there!

Like why god neglects to tell about Evolution. Or why he did not do anything the first many thousand years before Jews, Christians and Muslims. I mean if he wanted to tell us about his way of living, why not from the beginning? Before we started to speak, before we started to make tools and before we started to believe in many gods? Did good wait until we got paper to write it on? And why he not start with the Chinese, they had paper before us! Seems good also not like papyrus or else we would not have had Anubis or Rah!


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Well Joy actually many of those things have been mentioned by God in the books of the Bible that have been removed, about Dinosaurs and such. But the catholic church thought them too extreme to be believed so they had them removed. They also predicted the next prophet Muhammad, so you see how that is bad for business. So you your self just said the big bang wasn't a miss but is is for the Quran, so only Leucippus and Democritus were right, as they said it first. So by that reasoning all books that have it after them are wrong? Yes I agree you have to take the hits with misses, the exact reason that I believe Nostradamus to be bunk. So what about all that science has wrong? Oh I forgot they only guess so when they are wrong its okay. Lets talk about those millions of years before. Carbon dating has been proved wrong time and again and still people blindly follow it, on what faith, hope that one day the missing links will come to be found? That sounds a lot like religion to me no prof to back you up but you still blindly hold dear that hope for finding the truth as we do as well. What about the fracture lines found on the moon, not the small ones from astriod impacts but the large one that goes completely around the moon that NASA just recently found, did Muhammad get that from the Greeks as well? You should have read more, and told me how to explain the microbiology and Humanology that could not have been known before the use of very powerful microscopes. And for the paper a lot of the early texts were written on stone my friend. And about evolution, show me right now how a monkey became a man, there are a few similarities sure but there is no link only guesses and hopes. Sure animals change to better adapt to environments, also a point I wish to mention. This process happens much much faster than once thought causing many scientist to reconsider how old they actually believe life on the planet to be. With the falty results of carbon dating and "evolution" or more correctly called adaptation happening much faster than they once believed it may soon be seen that life on the planet is not millions of years old after all, and my point is just as solid as your by using the theory of science, Im right until some one proves me wrong, and no Im not just being childish, I have scientific papers to back up my statements.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

I forgot to add, you do realize that the time of all of these other gods you mentioned The Religion of Abraham and Moses was not only already started but well on the way to dominating the world? As it very well was today, They may have 3 names now but they all have the same start and pray to the Same God.


joyboard 6 years ago

I can see where you stand and that you have nothing to do with science. You made that clear. Because if you think Human evolved from monkeys, your clearly do not understand evolution at all. NOT EVEN THE THEORY!

I did not say that only Leucippus and Democritus where the only one right! I just pointed out that Muhammad was not the first one! As you claimed him to be!

And Science is not a Religion, science always try to prove it’s theory with all the facts that they have. If they prove something is wrong they will not try to claim is as right!

About microbiology the ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome where aware about things like human seeds, that they were small live forms. The existence of microorganisms was hypothesized for many centuries before their actual discovery. The existence of unseen microbiological life was postulated by Jainism which is based on Mahavira’s teachings as early as 6th century BCE Paul Dundas notes that Mahavira asserted existence of unseen microbiological creatures living in earth, water, air and fire.

That was before Muhammed. So was Huhammed the first to know about this?

You know you are kind of funny. Because you only accept science when it prove your curse right! As soon science proves your wrong, you look for some Theories like “Intelligent Design”. And you do not think that is kind of odd that these scientists get their money from the church or religious groups? Like they pay them to say that all other scientists are wrong?

I just want to ask how old is live on earth. I just need an easy laugh! I know that science cannot say it precise. But they can tell you pretty close how old the earth and live is. And the most will tell you that is millions of years old. Even a geologist will tell you that!

But I know that there are some around the world (many in the US) that say, it’s wrong. Well is good they get their money from Religious groups or else they would have to work at McDonalds.

Ah! And they all pray to the same god? Well not Democritus he was Atheist. And to say, that all other gods that have been around the world are your god; Well is kind of lame, because that would mean god like dressed up as a different god (many thousands) and went down to earth and give them different rules to live by.

And what about Religions that was there before even Abraham and Moses? The Egyptians predate the Jews, The Mesopotamians predate them. The Chinese predate them! And Aborigine beliefs goes back about 60 000 years and more?

Did it take your good so long time, to realize he was the only one? Or did he just make fun of the people? Or is he created by man like all religions?


Solanka 6 years ago

Pintails, you are coming up with a lot of statements without mentioning any sources where form u got your information. I don’t have much time to comment all the mistakes that have been made here, so I would like to comment just one from your latest comment. Otherwise we will be throwing a lot of checked and unchecked data on each other without any results.

You claim that carbon dating have been proved wrong again and again. (Sources?)

There are a few mistakes that are (sometimes deliberately) made when people talking about dating with carbon-14.

First: You date the carbon in things that were alive, so you cannot date objects that don’t have carbon in it like stone or even petrified fossils. It doesn’t mean that carbon dating is wrong; it just means that it is of limited use.

Second: carbon-14 is radioactive with half-life 5730 years, which means that after 5730 years have passed since an organism have died only a half of carbon-14 is left in it. After second 5730 years have passed there is a half of the half is left. Do u see where I am going? After 57300 years there will be only 0,098 % of original carbon-14 left. Meaning: too little of carbon-14 to make an accurate dating. As I said before dating with carbon-14 has limits and it is not used to date things that are older then 50 thousands years.

Third: Carbon dating of marine animals is different from carbon dating of land animals, because of a smaller amount of carbon-14 in oceans. If you don’t specify that an object you want to date originates from the sea, you will get a wrong dating result. This does not prove that carbon dating is wrong offcause, only that that a person that want to get a wrong reading is cheating by withholding the necessary information.

Fours: Carbon dating is proven right again and again (excuse me for paraphrasing you) by other dating techniques (yes, there are several others), for example by dendrochronology. It is a smart word for counting rings on tree’s horizontal cross section, - a new ring pattern is made by a tree each time a year passes. Dendrochronology is one of the things that are used to calibrate the carbon dating and to prove that it works.

Fifth: Carbon dating is not able to give a precise age (due to pollution, nuclear tests, volcano eruptions and so on) and there is a 10% error margin. 10% may sound as a lot, but in reality it is not, because u are still able to say if a difference between a 1500-years old object and 2000-years object.

Wikipedia’s page on carbon dating gives an ok description on carbon dating, but it also directs to different scientific sources.

So, as I say, check your statements, post your sources.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

"Ah! And they all pray to the same god? Well not Democritus he was Atheist. And to say, that all other gods that have been around the world are your god; Well is kind of lame, because that would mean god like dressed up as a different god (many thousands) and went down to earth and give them different rules to live by."

I only said that Jews, Christians and Muslims pray to the same God.

And as for these accurate scientists who said Dinosaurs walked the earth millions of years before man, Explain to me then the new evidence found in Texas in the US, that show dinosaurs and man walking side by side in the same geological time periods? Which by the way is stated in the book of Enoch which was one of those books I told you about that was removed from the bible. Also I believe the book of Barnabas mentioned something about it. Though they called them monsters, but modern science dismissed this as fantasy because monsters aren't real, they never thought to take into account that ancient man didn't have the knowledge and the words we have for these animals now. It is kind of like the story of the cyclops. they have actually found now that the Mammoth skull accounts for these "myths". Because ancient man had no other way to explain these remains.

As for the Chinese predating the Jews, yes they did but if you take into account the text removed from the bible by the catholic church, it actually dates the religion as much much older than 4 thousand years, but again the power that be of the time thought this was much to unthinkable and people of the time wouldn't follow this text.

As for micro biology Muhammad didn't Hypothesize about he, he specifically laid out the process of human birth process to a T so well in fact that many scientist today site the Quran when they discuss embryology.

I don't know if you want to trust me or not but I will be more than happy to email you a power point that I have that is used in many universities on embryology that is out of the Quran. I wont send you a virus, and you can scan it before you open it anyways. I will be most happy to share it with you.

These examples of science I have in my Hub are only a couple of them. And I will admit that I may have made a mistake or two while writing it. I am not tiring to find expansionism in the quran, i think I have found it but Im not ready to say for sure, as it is a part of the big bang theory, as Im sure you well know. The big bang only made the universe start then for some reason it started expanding for those who don't know the general idea. As for now it is how science is explaining the uniformity of the universe, as a massive explosion would have been much messier. Im sure Joy or Solanka, can explain much better than me.

And please don't knock me for not using sources if you want use them yourself. i will be more than happy to get them if you just ask me. But as you well know you can find anything to support any point of view on the internet or in text if you have the energy to rummage a library, many people don't these days. So what is the point in arguing over sources? You don't learn by taking the word of others, but by finding out for yourself, kind of like when you ask your mom to spell a word for you, but she tells you to go look it up. That is what I am telling you. but if you ask me to give a specific source for something I said I will be more than happy to do just that ;)

I could care less if you are not Religious, Just as you could care less if I am Muslim. I have no guilt about you going to hell when you die. And even if I am wrong, what I have I lost in this life? Absolutely nothing, if anything in my experience i Have gained much much more in life from finding religion. As have many billions of other people. Maybe we are all wrong, but I sleep well and night knowing if we aren't wrong well I don't have anything to worry about. And I will admit I am no scientist, but I do know that almost every famous Scientist in history was religious.

Even your great evolutionist Darwin was Christian. And to be clear I am a firm believer in adaptation, we see it happen even now. And I for one am not willing to say that the earth is only a few thousand years old. I would be willing to bet it is very old many millions of years, how ever I do not believe that life on earth is as old as they claim it is. In the last few decades we have made many discoveries that are showing that time periods are not so far back as we once thought, the last ice age was thought to be what a 100,000 years or so ago, but now it has been discovered that it was only a few hundred years ago. I believe the English called it the winter that wouldn't end, or something to that effect. If I'm not mistaken I believe that beer was invented during this time, because there were no grapes for many years, it was too cold to grow them.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

since you asked me about carbon dating I will list a couple sources for you, I'm going to try to find the news article about the goat that was suppose to be thousands of years old but only 2 years old. give me a bit to look it up, in the mean time here are a few others.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/carbondating...

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c007.htm...

http://www.innoval.com/C14/

http://shroudofturin.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/new-...

http://www.modomedia.com/quantum/carbondating.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/31/us/errors-are-fe...

that should suffice for now.Wiki may have an okay description for the process but it is a very unreliable source as anyone can edit it, I have myself a couple times and you think I am very stupid so that is a good example right there. Anyways, wiki is not a valid source but in some cases as you stated about it can do an okay job.


Joyboard 6 years ago

Yes I found some about the Dinosaurs Footprints on several pages on the internet, since you not wanted to give me a link. Pages like christiancourier.com, creationevidence.org, bibleandscience.com, .bible.ca, creation.com, creation-vs-evolution.us, hope-of-israel.org and the list goes on like that! notice anything? All these pages are against the Evolution Theory. And strong believers. And get sponsored by Religious groups or companies. Some even sell copies of the foot prints.

But when mentioned in Geological Magazine (Cambridge Universiry Press), Archaeology(US and British) or American Anthropological Association (AAA) it was only mentioned as fake or hoax.

So you have somebody who claimed it is true that human and dinosaurs live at the same time, who get a big fat pay check from Religious and anti Evolutions groups. Who also not really are willing to let others take a look at the “proof” and then you have thousands of the world's largest professional organization of scholars and practitioners in the field of anthropology saying it is fake.

And all the other places where you find Dinosaurs you never find anything of humans! If you ask a Geologist and I mean a real one, not somebody who get paid from some cult or religious organization. He will tell you that humans have never been found in the same or under the earth layers where Dinosaurs have been found.

And as long the guess in Texas keep the evidence for themselves and not let the AAA take a look at it, I think is a little fishy!

And how come that this Evidence was only found in Texas?

Nearly a third of Texans believe humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth at the same time, and more than half disagree with the theory that humans developed from earlier species of animals, according to the University of Texas/Texas Tribune Poll.

So now to the next point:

About the Catholic removing the text out of the bible. Great I can see that might have happened, so I will go with the Torah; the world is 5770 years old. Chinese about 10.000 years BC and at 5000 BC they had agriculture, pottery, villages, and textiles. I mean that is really good, if you take in account that the world was not even made by god jet.

Next:

Yes, I did look for something about Embryology and when human did research about it! And you are just not going to believe me. Again some Greek Bastard knows pretty much about Embryology! And again the Greek knew it before Mohammed was born!

Oh and no need to send me anything. Even if they use it at some universities in US. I am lucky to know one of Denmark’s best biologist, his father is biologist too and also one of the few Danish people that wound dinosaurs bones and footprints even in Denmark (Bornholm). I will ask them ;) if I want to know anything about biology and dinosaurs.

Ice Age was only few hundred years ago? How long? If only few hundred is must be after Christ and Mohammed? What happened with the Glacials? Did they roll over the Danish and Germans but so fast that nobody got hurt?

Well….

my whole point why I wrote a comment at first time was this:

This sounds a lot like the big bang theory does it not? How did Muhammad know about the big bang 1400 years before science?

And I after I read more and more about it, I see how he could know things like that. Not because he was special and came up with the ideas himself. Or because “god” told him. It seems that Mohammed know about it, because some Greek already knew it.

But maybe it wasn’t even him, since ( I am not sure about this) the Quran was written after the death of Mohammed. Soooo somebody else wrote it? And not the one “god” picked as prophet?!?! So it was just written by some normal humans?

But what if you are wrong and I am wrong too? Maybe we will be reborn as dogs or pigs in our next life… I question because I seek the truth! If some book tell me, is the right thing and everything is the truth! But I still find something which is wrong… I start to question the book…

But that is because I not care about faith… I care about the truth…


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

simmer down Joy, again all you have to do is ask and I will provide the links as I said above. I have done more to back my claims than have you. And not just US colleges use this evidence, Canadians and many others as well. Im sure even your precious Denmark has a few colleges that use it as well.

Regardless of what you want to believe the Quran was the first source to lay out the process of human birth from the second it started to the moment it finishes in such exact description. I will find you a more reputable link for my claims. those scientist need to get a pay check from someone. Do you think scientist don't commonly twist the evidence to fit their agenda, you have much more faith in the integrity of the human than most people. This simple fact is that science has always been twisted to fit the agenda of the one paying the bills. Look at global warming and scientist that testify at criminal trials, this is just to name two cases. There are many many more my friend.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

The Quran was indeed compiled after the death of Muhammad just as the bible was compiled after the death of Jesus. But both were written before the death of each, as many of the text have been dated before the deaths of both.

Maybe we will come back as pigs or dogs. The fact is no one knows what happens after we die, as no one is around to tell us about it. But there are those like my self who have great faith in what happens after death. And as a scientist you can not prove me wrong about what happens after we die.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

since you don't want to see the power point on embryology I will try to get some pics of the text book and post them for you. It was written by a Christian no less. And a world renowned Canadian Embryologist at the leading front of the science. But he doesn't not site your Greeks one single time. I am not belittling their contributions to science.


JoyBoard 6 years ago

Sorry your renowned Canadian Embryologist does not know about Aristotles work egigenesis that was written 2200 years ago (before the Quran). Science when you study about it, you will hear about him more than once.

And sorry, they do not use the Quran in Universities in Germany, Cambridge or Scandinavia about Embryology. Of course they use it when you learn about Religion, but not about science.

Apparently I forgot how you back up about Big Bang and how Mohammed was the first to know about it? Even others had the same idea hundreds of years before him.

And about Dinosaurs? Even when the great majority of Anthropologicals, Geologicals and other man of science say it was fake foot prints.

Ice Age that was hundreds of years ago? Would it not have been written down for sure?

And about science twist the evidence? You know is funny, because that is what I think when I read your claims. Because how they found out it was twisted? Well some other scientists look at their work, then they start their own research and find out something was wrong. Then other scientist and studies look at the problem; and the conclusion was that Global Warming was not as fast as the first studies said it would be. But Global Warming is still real, just slower than the first studies want us to believe.

That is what Science is all about, to find out the true. But the problem with the scientist who get their big fat pay check from Religious groups and fanatics are not like that. They so some reason not like to show their evidence to others, which is sad when it should be true. Then they would be famous even in Europe and in Magazines that write about new scientific discoveries. But apparently they do not do that. Again I just wonder… No, of course I don’t wonder. They are just corrupt.

If they were willing to share their research and evidence other scientist would of course find out is a hoax. That’s why you only hear about this evidence at sites from religious and creatists, who also pay them to do the science. And I think is that people think it is science and that people keep telling them it is science, because the people know, that the normal Religious people not know so much about science so see if it wrong or not. The US needs to improve their Education system. If that is really what you learn over there. I mean if it was true. Honestly we Europeans are not stupid, but if it was true even some part of it. I am sure they would teach it in Europe too? I mean about Dinosaurs, Ice Age, and Mohammad would be mentioned if he really was the first one too know all these things you claim.

I would not call you wrong and your evidence wrong! I just say that the mayor part of scientists say it’s wrong; well most of them say that. But what I can say for sure, after reading about the Greek, that they were really smart people. Thousand years ahead of their time and hundreds of years ahead of Mohammed.

And that Mohammed was smart to use their knowledge for his sake.

But to claim their work has the work of Mohammed is just sad …

And please if you send me links with evidence, try to get it from a place that is recognized by the scientific community. And not from blindfaith.com


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Joy explain sometime to me. Lets talk about the geological table. And how this science proves the earth is millions of years old.

How then is the geological table from every part of the world different? How is it that in much of the world they are not even in the same order as they are in other parts of the world? And how is it that dinosaur fossils are found in geological periods they are suppose to be extinct in?

I have a pdf to explain this, I will put it in a later post when I have the time to copy and paste it. And since you don't want to look at the evidence to explain the embryology I will paste it in that same post.

If you are so confident in your science should you not do as a scientist does, and look at all the evidence and them make an educated guess based on all the facts no matter how much they go against your preconceived notions? since that part of science doesn't matter to you I will post it for others to read.

Scientific theory about the orgions of the universe were put into place before Muhammad walked the earth, but again as I said he was the first one to lay them out in such precise detail and to claim them as fact and not just theory. Even his claims of geology were centuries before their time.

And yes this doctor that wrote text book did much work in Germany, and many other countries around the world. Just because you don't want to accept it doesn't make it wrong.


Joyboard 6 years ago

“Joy explain sometime to me. Lets talk about the geological table. And how this science proves the earth is millions of years old.“

The age of the Earth is around 4.54 billion years. This age has been determined by radiometric age dating of meteorite material and is consistent with the ages of the oldest-known terrestrial and lunar samples. Isotopic systems that have been exploited for radiometric dating have half-lives ranging from only about 10 years (e.g., tritium) to over 100 billion years (e.g., Samarium-147).

Yes, there is not only Carbon-14 which is a radioactive isotope of carbon, with a half-life of 5,730 years.

But sadly I am not so well educated about Atoms. But Lucky I know one of the few Danish people who studies Atomic physics. I will ask him about Carbon and other methods to date the age of the earth. And why is sometimes goes wrong, and how they find out it is wrong and find the correct age ;)

For Biological questions I have to wait a little, since my biologic friend is on vacation. But I just think if you ask people like Dawkins and you ask if he ever used Quran when he did Embryology research or any other biologist in his rank, he will say no.

Also if you upload your evidence somewhere, please also with sources and names. So I can contact them if necessary or find their articles in scientific magazines and books.

Oh, and by any means not think that is only me who does not accept it. Many the things you claim are not accepted by the mayor part of the scientific community. I not know why? But I know if they are like the guys that found dinosaurs and human footprints in Texas, then it is because they do not want to show the “evidence” to the scientific community. And so they community cannot really see if it’s wrong or right.

Ah and when you want to quote the Quran please do not quote it, just give me the lines, I will get my brothers Quran tomorrow when I visit him. So I will see if everything he (Mohammed) claims is right. I will look for Big Bang Theory, Embryological Studies and the other things we talked about. And I will compare it with some what the Greeks said or other cultures ;) To see who get the most right. But I am sure Mohammed did know everything and I will not be able to find one thing that is not true, right? I mean seen from the scientific point of view. That has been accepted and proven as fact by nearly all scientists worldwide. ^___^

And forgive me when I not think so kindly of your “scientists”. I was already fooled by someone like that before. Those suckers at Burger King told me they had the best Burgers, but is sucked. So I not believe people so easy who claim something is good, true or fact when they get money from a group, company or organization that benefit if they keep saying that.

Can I ask about the name of the doctor you talk about? Was he German? Geologist?


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Dr. Maurice Bucaille, an eminent medical scientist and a member of the French Academy of Medicine

and

Dr. Moore was a former President of the Canadian Association of Anatomists, and of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists. He was honored by the Canadian Association of Anatomists with the prestigious J.C.B. Grant Award and in 1994 he received the Honored Member Award of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists "for outstanding contributions to the field of clinical anatomy."

both are mentioned in the hub, exactly as they are here. I just copied and pasted. the power point i mentioned was biased on the Text book by doctor Moore,and made by a local doctor known also in India for is work in embryology for 20 some odd years. And is now the director of Nuclear Medicine at the Baptist Hospital in Memphis TN. Please understand that because a hospital in the US has a name like Methodist or Baptist, doesn't mean they are a religious owned or backed hospital. It is a name mostly chosen for the psychological effects that names seem to have when choosing an place of business.Any ways, I wrote a paper in college about the ethics of using human stem cells from embryos. The local doctors name is Mohammed Moinuddin, MD Director & Professor of Nuclear Medicine

Baptist Hospital, Memphis, TN - USA. As I said above he also worked in India on stem cells for over 20 years. I would be willing to get his email for you. I'm sure he would talk to you about it. He goes to the same mosque as me although his opinion may be biased but no more so than anyone else who truly believes in what they love and know. The same way you are biased toward your opinions and I am toward mine. He is the only embryologist I know personally so it is the best I can do.

Let me admit, I looked into the foot prints that I mentioned, and I watched a show a while back about them, never decided to look into it myself because these men had such important sounding titles. I will admit their evidence is shaky at best. However the tools and other human remains found in these geological era's are a little more solid in their evidence. Ill cover that later, now I want to go with Radiometric.

I listed the references below while some are biblical news letters some are also from legitimate scientist. Let me also restate, that i personally believe that the earth is older than a few thousand years, I just don't believe that live on the planet is as old as they claim, the geological column is also shaky at best.

"Radiometric dating techniques have always been an important element in the modern Creation-evolution controversy. From the time that radioactive decay rates were first suggested as a means of measuring the age of rocks, creation-model scientists and other critical thinkers were quick to point out that because the original compositions of the rocks could not be established, the "age" as measured was actually conjecture, and without compelling scientific value. Nothing has happened to change that. However, a very clever mathematical trick called 'concordia curves' and 'isochrons' has more recently been used by geochronologists to delude themselves into thinking that they are able to find rigorous proofs for old-age in rocks through radioactive data.

These mathematical methods are indeed rigorous, and at first glance appear very compelling evidence for ancient ages. However, careful analysis discloses that there is at least one other equally valid mechanism for the source of the data, and no cogent proof that can be offered that any significant amount of any radiogenic daughter element has ever been the result of decay from the parent over long ages.

In 1981, Arndts, Overn and Kramer (1) (2) (3) published a series of papers which discussed the modern methods of radiometric dating. These methods use straight-line plots of the ratios of radioisotopes. This paper focuses on a straight-line plot called an 'isochron'.

By plotting the ratio of the daughter element to a non-radiogenic isotope vs. the ratio of the parent to the same isotope a straight line often results. An example is a plot of 87Sr/86Sr vs. 87Rb/86Sr. 87Rb decays to 87Sr by beta decay, with a half-life of 48.8 billion years.

Scientific experience tells us that when data fit on a mathematically defined curve, especially on a straight line, that there is a fundamental relationship between the data points, and that this relationship can be discovered. In this case evolutionary geochronologists presume that the relationship is the decay over time of the parent into the daughter. It follows that there is no problem in determining the original composition of daughter isotopes -- it is given by the zero intercept of the straight line. The slope of the isochron defines the age of the sample. There is furthermore no question as to whether the sample has been a "closed system" over time. If it were not, the data would not fit a straight line.

The isochron method is elegant, because it eliminates so many problems of calibration and possible error. It is essentially self-checking, because of the requirement that the data points lie on a straight line.

There is, however, the need to verify the mechanism which may have yielded the data of the straight line. There must primarily be a valid mechanism for having given parts of the rock differing initial quantities of parent isotopes, so that a plot could be made, rather than a single point.

Arndts and Overn (2) pointed out that another equally well-known mechanism, mixing of parts from other initial rocks, can give the same results. If mixing is the mechanism, the data have no time significance -- the rock could have formed yesterday.

It becomes apparent that the validation of radiometric dating is based on the premise that the earth is billions of years old. Radiometric dating can in no way constitute proof of ancient age, since any individual measurement could be due to mixing, rather than decay.

Dalrymple (4) has defended the use of isochrons over against the probability of mixing. His "proofs" of the value of the isochrons encompass five points, having varying degrees of validity.

1. The test for mixing is not conclusive. There is a test that has generally been accepted as an indication that the straight-line isotopic ratio relationship is the result of incomplete mixing of two original components (3). The test is based on the fact that two end members, mixed in differing proportions, will yield a linear relationship when plots are made of the composition of the various intermediate mixtures. Any constituent of either or both of the end members may make a suitable test (linear plot) providing the original end-member materials are themselves homogeneous, and that the constituents themselves neither vary with time nor can have entered or left the rock since the mixture was formed. If the property being plotted is a ratio of elements or isotopes, a hyperbola may result. This can sometimes be converted to a straight line by plotting the reciprocal of one of the parameters.

A linear array indicates a closed system. When a linear isochron of 87Sr/86Sr vs. 87Rb/86Sr has been obtained, it is a reasonable assumption that the system has been closed to these three isotopes, but not necessarily to any other elements. The commonly-accepted test to determine whether the linear relationship is due to two-component mixing, and to ultimately determine the composition of the end members, is to plot the 87Sr/86Sr ratio versus 1/Sr (the concentration of Strontium). Using 1/Sr rather than Sr gives a linear plot rather than an hyperbola.

Dalrymple (4) states that such a linear relationship of the isotope ratio vs. 1/Sr is "a necessary consequence of mixing, but -- not a sufficient test for mixing." Dalrymple is not accurate in the first statement. It is not a necessary consequence, but only will be true in the special circumstances that the mixing is simple mixing of only two components, and that these components were homogeneous. Mixtures of three or more components will not yield these results. The mixing must also be incomplete, as a homogeneous mixture will yield only one point, n


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

sorry for such a long reply, and when you search for these things like on google, start on page 4 or 5 and you start to get away from the Christian web sites. You have to dig deeper than the first couple pages, some do have a lean toward creationism but that doesn't change the fact they are papers written by professionals of the field and many are published using the name of a university. Most are american.

Do you know if google gives different responses depending on where you are in the world, or do you need to list a specific place always. Like I google from america so I get mostly american responses, if you google from say Germany do more of your searches come back with German? sources. probably a stupid question, but i am just curious. Every time I have been out of the US, i didn't use the computer very often.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

also here is a quote on the Greeks on the subject of embryology.

Aristotle (384-322 BC) – Founder of Embryology – “Embryo rose from menstrual blood after activation by sperm.”

and the rest of the line of study.

W. Harvey (1578-1657 AD) – Could not observe early stages of embryo and concluded “Embryos were secreted by uterus.”

Microscope discovered in late 16th century could magnify only 10 times

Hamm and Leeuwenhoek used an improved microscope in 1677 and first observed the spermatozoa, but mistakenly thought sperm contained a miniature preformed human being that enlarged when it was deposited in the female genital tract.

Caspar Wolff (1759) suggested that development results from growth and differentiation.

Von Baer – described oocyte in the ovarian follicle of a dog in 1827 – 150 years after discovery of sperm – general characteristics of embryo precede specific ones – “Father of Embryology

Copy of a seventeenth century drawing of a sperm by Hartsoeker. The miniature human being within it was thought to enlarge after the sperm entered an ovum. Other embryologist at this time thought the oocyte contained a miniature human being that enlarged when it was stimulated by a sperm.

ANTONI VAN LEEWUENHOEK 1683: “Man comes not from an egg but from an animalcule in the masculine seed”

That is just a brief history of the science of embryology. I only listed a couple of the versus in the quran that talk about this topic, if you would allow me to email you this power point you can cross reference all of the versus that pertain to this topic, or just ask me and I will tell you where to look since you don't want me to quote.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

I will go ahead and list them now

the First Revelation of God versus 1-5

Al-Muminun 12-16

Al-Hajj 5

If you had the power point you could compare these descriptions with actual medical notes and diagrams of not only the reproductive organs but the entire process from seed to birth, the description in the quran was indeed the first to be so descriptive and exact. The greeks may have started it but they were indeed wrong.

if you email me here it will go to my private email, then I can reply and no one will ever have your email but me. I promise you that. You may not like my beliefs but I am an honest man to the best of my abilities.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

on the subject of the bigbang also read

Chapter: 21, Verse: 30

Im sorry but again no scientist has ever laid it out so clearly as the Quran before the 20th century.

It is all quite overwhelming to find this out for the first time. It was hard at first for me to accept also. But the more you dig into to it the more you will find I am right on this one. And played a huge role in me reverting to Islam. The fact that Muhammads science was almost two thousand years before its time is in deed correct. the science of the time was no where close to describing it in such details, and none of them describe it in a why that modern science does today, except of course Muhammad. I have many many more versus for you to check I can list them all night long since you don't want me to quote.


Joyboard 6 years ago

For the moment I will not talk about Dr. Keith L. Moore, Mohammed Moinuddin and his PowerPoint show about “Embryology In The Quran” or about the so called evidence of the geological that found human tools, but never published it in American Science or did let other scientists take a look at the evidence so they could confirm the evidence.

And don’t worry about google ;) you can change location and since I search in English I get English results. Don’t want to translate a lot from German in Danish if I can find the same in English ;)

I must admit I did not find the quote you mentioned about Aristotle I tried to search for blood and semen in his text (the word sperm he never used). Aristotle is writing complicated and I get a little headache when I read it in English, since my native language is German and Danish.

And to be honest I did not have time to get the Quran today, so I cannot look up the Quran and compare it with Mohammed Moinuddin and his PowerPoint at the moment.

Since we are going deeper in the details, I have to read more about the sources. But my time is limited. But apparently you have good knowledge about the Quran already and so I of course would be stupid not to ask about things and questions I wanted to know for long time. So I hope you don’t mind if I ask you some questions. Questions I always wanted to ask.

I will ask one question at the time. Since I guess you also have limited time.

So my first question:

How old is the universe?


Joyboard 6 years ago

Sorry for Spam: of course I mean the magazine Scientific American. not American Science.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

According to the Quran, the universe is billions of years old. I will try to find the verse for you. I doubt of course that Aristotle used the word also. Im sure the word he used amounted to something like the male seed. Which we in America now call sperm. The very crude history I gave of embryology is accurate though. At least from all the research I have done. The power point I want you to see, has accurate current medical evidence from modern sources outside of the religious community and are listed on the references. I don't know how to put a power point online or I would. if you know how to do it and could tell me that would be great. now let me look for the verse I refereed to. This is why I have said again and again that I believe the earth to be much older than a few thousand years as many Christians claim this is not something that the Muslim community tries very hard to prove. It is life that i believe to be younger. After All if you read all the verses on the creation of the universe and geology in the Quran it is obvious that it is many many many years in the making. Though I don't know that a specific number is given. If I had to quess, I would say that a date wasn't given because at that period in time, no one would believe it, and many of those alive back then had no concept of that amount of time. Much like us, we have no concept of a billion years but it is acceptable to us now because we know the science and math fits. Also I found the verses on expansionism I was talking about. Give me a bit and I will post them, with in the next 30 mins inshaa Allah. Like and idiot I didn't write them down when I found them.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

If you want me to quote to save you time I will and you can look later, but I wont do that until you ask me to so for now I will just list the verses.

Read

Al-Anbiya 30 also read 104-this is an interesting one, as it states the universe is ever repeating, and as some cosmologist comes back together after its done expanding then restarts again.

Yunus 61

an-Nam1 88

Alaq 1-8

Dhariyat 47

Luqman 10

Anbiya 33 talks about the orbits of the planets around the sun and the entire cosmos orbits as all galaxies do.

ar Ra'd 2

Fatir 13

Zumar 5

Ya Seen 38, states the sun is not everlasting and will die. Read 38-40

71:15-16

25:61 states the moon reflects light.

That is most of what i can find on cosmology right now. One I think is actually geology, and I am glad you asked me to do this. As in my hub I correctly quoted a passage and wrote the wrong surrah and verse for it. stupid me.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

I forgot to tell you please feel free to ask me anytime about the Quran, because even if I sound like a fool I do so enjoy talking about it. And again knowledge is gained through dialog along with research and study.


joyboard 6 years ago

So we know that the universe is at least 13.75 billion years old, by the information we have now(Because we know about big bang and lightspeed. And Earth is about 4.54 billion years old. And that is also accepted by the Quran, even it says it was created in 6 day. But 6 days are not always real 6 days. So when do Theological Scientist place the first life on earth? And how do they date the evidence?


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

To be honest I cant answer those questions right now. but I will try to find them, maybe I will ask my emam. The 6 day creation in Genesis I have heard explained a couple ways, and also there are 3 different versions of the creation in the bible alone. But only one version spread out through a few surrahs in the Quran. Also the bible is very crupt document and is no where near its original form. A lot of Christians will deny this, but it is a proven fact. The first way I have heard it explained is of course that it took 6 days and that was it. But when you add the quran to the mix and you take the let their be light statement, we know that that didn't happen instantly. Allah says come together willingly or not, and of course they obey him. We know though science that this process take a long time for cosmic dust to turn into a star. So then what of the six days, honestly I think this is the second creation. Also you need to take into effect that the bible has been translated from ancient Hebrew and a few books that further explain the creation have been removed from it. I have read bits and pieces of those books by finding them one the internet. So then we should read the Torah, instead of the first five books of the bible, and they should be read in Hebrew just as the Quran, and the New Testament should be. As you well know much information is lost in translations. We both speak German, I do, I think you said you do also if not let this be a hypothetical. Say we both find an ancient text, and it is written in German. Now lets say German is a dead language and no one has heard it spoken by the creators in a thousand years. We translate this text side by side but do not help each other, what will the out come be? Most likely some of it will come out the same, but it will be different in some key places. So different in fact that if you read them you may indeed think they are two different documents.

So the second creation is the one that took 6 days, How is that. Well how did Allah destroy the first earth? one he destroyed with fire which could have been the exploding of the sun, one was with a flood I don't know how to explain, So that is two destructions plus the original creation gives us 3 earths.

So say the one destroyed with fire and earth quakes was from the sun. That would explain the 6 day creation, as Allah may not want to wait another 4.5 billion years for the earth to reform, That would mean the rocks of the earth would still be 4.5 billion years old, but life would be younger. Lets say the sun didn't completely explode but only a huge solar flare wipped out the life on earth, that would explain the earthquakes and the fires or lets say it was an astroid that took out the earth, that would explain earthquakes global fire and the cutting out of all light. which we know happened. That could explain the 6 day theory. I honestly just don't know the answer to that. But I will try to find it.

It sounds far fetched sure, but I am just mostly guessing here, from my limited knowledge of both cosmology and Religion. My first statement was my best answer, and with only the Torah and Quran in the original form, our earth history is sadly in complete. The only thing I am sure of here is that the earth is billions of years old and God created the Earth 3 times. And by Gods explanation of the big bang and expansionism in the Quran, I know this took billions of years. I know this because Allah told me to use science to confirm His creation, and science tells me this is how it happened.

There are some unanswered questions, sure just as there are in science alone. Dose that mean it is wrong, no. It just means I don't know the answer. But I will try to find them for you. It may take a day or two, but I will try to meet with my Emam and I know we have a couple scientist there at the mosque though I don't know their specialty I will ask. Maybe I can give you a better answer than the babble I wrote in the above comment:P


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

I wanted to bring up something on evolution. Now we know that animals change and adapt to their environments, some times this even makes new species after about 2 in insects and sometimes 13 generations in more advanced species. But the point of evolution is to not just survive but to thrive right? I am serious about this so please help me. I don't have any scientific basis for what I am saying it is just some thinking I have been doing. maybe I am stupid though.

So if this is the point of adaptation or evolution, then why did we ever evolve past single celled organisms? I mean in the grand scheme of things Humans are not very good at adaptation without our technology, compared to other species we are not that great at it. But single celled life and even insects are absolute masters of this, so if we evolve to survive better, it makes no sense that we ever went past single celled life forms, as we well know single celled organisms are the most resilient life we know of. And it is the oldest life on the planet, so in effect all life came from these according to evolution right? But if the point of evolution is survival, then it really makes no sense to ever evolve past a single cell.

Do you know of any studies done on this subject, or can you refer me to something to help me better understand this topic? I know the basic idea of evolution, there is a website called howstuffworks.com it is a great website if you have never been to it, you should and join it.. its free or it was when I joined a few years back Im sure it still is, anyways it has amazing descriptions of many many things in science. They break stuff down so simple minds like mine can understand it better. but they are very accurate and you will find many extremely interesting subjects there. Maybe I can make an new hub to discuss this topic, or you should join Joy and do a hub on it, I mean if you want. As I really enjoy debating with you. You had me sweating there for a while especially when i learned the truth of the dino man prints. But nothing will make me lose my faith in God. It is a power and feeling I can not describe, and all the evidence I need for Allah is in my heart, and the things I have personally experienced in my life. Maybe they all have scientific explanations but according to Allah they should. Just yesterday, i found out my back in completely healed. I had 6 ruptured discs C-1 thru C-6 5 pinched nerves central and fomonal spinal stinosis and DJD. They wanted to do surgery and I said no as I am only 27 and I was 24 when they suggested the surgery. I did physical therapy for a while, and tried traction machines and medicines, nothing brought me much relief at all. I stopped physical therapy and all this other stuff over a year ago. I went for my yearly MRI last week, and found out now that My back is completely healed. My doctor couldn't explain it, and I have no more pain. She said it was very odd, and had several of her coworkers look into it also, the only thing she said they came up with, was to be happy it healed like that. Im sure there is some explanation, but it is the simple things like this, that show us God is real. Maybe you don't see it that way, but I do. I'm going around ranting how I was saved with a miracle because according to God there should be a scientific explanation, and those preachers that hit you in the head and cure you are a joke. My point is that things happen without explanation sometimes and when you open your heart you can hear God calling and taking credit for it. You don't have to believe this story but I have medical documentation to back it up, and I'm sure you well know stranger things have happened. Look at the Infinite Universe that started from something so tiny we cant even describe it.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

again I talk to much, I am sorry. please forgive my long windedness.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Joy I found the answer to your question and I will also post it in another hub I am working on.

"Well, let's take a look at two verses:

1) "the angels and the spirit ascend unto Him in a day, the measure of which was fifty thousand years." 70:4

This verse refers to the ascent of angels and the spirit (meant to be Gabriel) back to heaven after settling all matters of life in the universe.

The verse clearly said a day that "was" and not a day that 'is', which clearly indicates that that day was in the past (50,000 years ago).

2) "…a day relative to your God is equivalent to a thousand years of your count." 22:47

With a few simple equations:

If 1 day (for God) = 1000 years (for man)

1 year = 1000 x 365 (for man)

= 365,000 years

50,000 years (for God) = 365,000 x 50,000 (for man)

= 18.25 billion!"

hope this helps

http://www.submission.org/universe.html


JoyBoard 6 years ago

I was about to write a long long text about bacteria, cells, DNA and even the slime mold. I wanted to talk more about evolution. About the wisdom of the Greeks and how the Quran used some of their ideas and theories. The Quran even mentioned some Greek philosophy about the universe that was wrong. To prove my point that the knowledge and wisdom (not all of it from the Greeks of course) that is in the Quran, was already spoken before Mohammed was born.

But to be honest I do not see any point. Because I have forgot… You are a believer and you will always fight for what you believe.

And after I read something in the Quran I searched for what was already know and what was wrong. And I can only question myself, how people that believe things. I mean if I had a book that would say, this is the holy books! The words of god! And I would find just one error! Just something that was wrong! I would start to question it. And by Error I not mean about spelling or grammar, but about stories that sciences has proved is just wrong and silly.

The Bible, the Torah and the Quran are made to humans, by humans and there is nothing holy about it. When it would be a holy book it would be a wonder of itself! Or at least not contain errors. And if you say, well some part are maybe not right but only because some human screwed up? Then I just ask how you know that the other humans did not screw up too? All humans have been corrupted! And they always corrupt what they make too! If good would want us to follow some book, he would have no trouble to make one himself! And if he did not know that people would mess up the book and write nonsense in it, well then he is a terrible god.

For the others that read this, if you think science is always right I just want to say it’s not! Worst kinds of scientists are those who have wings. They have wings because of politics, religion or personal motives. Question them!! Because real scientist do not have wings. The Truth is the evidence and the evidence will tell you what is right or wrong! And always hear both sides of the argument! And if you want to know; how wrong, how right, how strange, how unfair, how scary and how funny science can be, I would recommend: Bill Bryson – A Short History of Nearly Everything

Thank you – JoyBoard

Thanks and so long for all the fish!

-Last entry-


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Well Joy too bad this is your last entry as I enjoyed the talks, anyways you are right these books are written by humans, and by our very nature we are flawed. Even the most concrete and well known things us humans have, we can find errors in if we look hard enough. The point is, do these errors make it wrong? or do they make us wrong? No I don't think so, and to be honest if you didn't read and take the information you read from the quran in Arabic then you shouldn't judge yet. As we well know translation destroys meanings. As all language has different ways to express points. yes we can translate, but meaning is lost. Nice to have you here salam.


Interesting approach to the subject 6 years ago

Interesting approach, but you are forcing the concept of science too much. You are logically inconsistent several places. Just sooneexample. You operate with who kinds of "science" withou explaining the difference.

1. "How did Muhammad know about the big bang 1400 years before science?"

So here you refer to knowledge "before" science. So there is a time-difference between Muhammads knowlede and modern science. Just a little later you say:

2. "Islam and science are not different; the in fact they are one and the same. You can not have one without the other. Without science there is no Islam, and without Islam there is no science."

If it's the same, how can Muhammad know about something 1400 years before science/Islam -> since it is the same and you cannot have the one withou another?

It's logically inconsistent and you do this mistake throughout the hub. You just use the word "science" almost random.

And you don't argue on the comlicts between the concept of modern non-religious (read non-biased) scientific method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method) and the science you describe.

You are trying to hard to make it fit to Islam. No need for that. It needs much work before it really gets interesting or valuable. The quality of the comments is proove enough :) Including this one.

Basically, it's all BS! Back to work:)


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

thanks Interesting for you input. No my hub is not perfect, however the information I put into it was a result of my own research. Maybe I do have some wrong information as I am neither a scientist or a Emam(the prayer leader in Islam).

Now that i see some of your points I think there are a couple things I could change, however I wont do it in this hub because I don't like to change my work after this far into the discussion as it makes some of the posts invalid. Though I wouldn't mind writing another with some of the corrections you pointed out.

My hub is very biased and one sided toward Islam and religion, but that was indeed the point and my intent. I wasn't writing so much to explain science, but more to show some of the examples of the Qur'an, sorry this hub was not a good read for you.

Salam my friend, and feel free to critique my other hubs. Criticism is very much welcome by me, as it improves my work and the quality in which I am able to provide to the readers. As I said though I won't rewrite on that already has a discussion under it, but I will write a new one with the corrections if they are sever enough to address, you feel strongly these are, so perhaps I will write a new one. Salam Interesting and again thank you.


OMG 6 years ago

Even if I don't agree I'll follow your work. Good luck on your way :)


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

thanks OMG that was very nice thing to say. I am glad some one enjoys my writing. if you feel the need to correct me at any time go ahead from time to time I need it, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me hub pages would suck if that was the case, you may also enjoy my hub

70

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Quran-...

I need to add to it though, I mentioned stars in the title and forgot to add that the Qur'an said the sun was not ever lasting and that stars collapse on them selves. Anyways, if you haven't read it already that is. One thing I haven't mentioned in my hubs and maybe I should is that Muhammad (pbuh) is illiterate, maybe this adds to his credibility maybe it takes away from it. I'm not sure, but it is a fact that should be considered when thinking on this subject.

can I ask something, do you not agree because you are Christian, or because you are a non believer? Feel free to ignore the question if it is none of my business just tell me to shut up and I will leave it at that. Again thank you for your comment, and have a blessed day.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

1. How did Muhammad know about the big bang 1400 years before science?

"So here you refer to knowledge "before" science. So there is a time-difference between Muhammads knowlede and modern science. Just a little later you say"

Interesting perhaps I should have clarified but When I said that, I wasn't implying that Muhammad did all of this stuff before there was a thing called science, only that the Qur'an confirmed these things before science did. I can see how one would think I said Islam came before science but this was not my intent. Maybe I misunderstood you but this is what I gathered your meaning to be. Again though this late in the game I will not change the hub, however perhaps anyone that reads this will read your comments and mine, maybe I am just a poor author but face it, I'm not publishing novels or journals here this is something I like to do for fun. I hope I clarified, sorry if I made things worse.


OMG 6 years ago

can I ask something, do you not agree because you are Christian, or because you are a non believer?

Well, the whole subject you write about is so interesting, that there isn't time enough for me to give you a proper answer. But I'll try anyway. My lack of English skills also prevents me to describe my thoughts sharply. But as a religious person you know how to read between the lines :) (Sorry for the bad joke there:)

From a total abstract point of view religion (the idea of a God and the consequences) is very important to me for self reflexion etc but also for my everyday life. But here I am talking about an idea which does not claim any superiority or ask me of any loyalty or any kind of support towards it. It's 'just' and idea and maybe the most important one humans can think of. The concept of God should always be open for discussion and even the abandonment of the idea itself.

Like intellectual spheres of philosophy and science. And all three together (religion, science and philosophy) gives me the foundation to discuss and ask interesting questions. (There an endless many spheres. Each sphere is just a human construction).

And that's where is all goes wrong for many religious believers (I don't mean to generalize). Once they "found" there answer they stop asking the important questions. They stop looking. The questions they ask are narrowed down within a certain set framework. "Is the Earth really flat?", "Is it ok for gay people to have sex?", "Should we still stone people to death if they commit adultery". Or the Christian version "Is it ok to use a condom?" Of cause not. All these questions are answered by religious leader based on a holy text.

The answers can, ultimately, be found in just one book. And of cause leaders of religions are in a superior position to interpret the holy text. And the rest of the world fits perfectly in the holy text. (I formulate it way to simple by using overkill illustrative points, but the principles are the same).

Every time I discuss some interpretation with religious people they say "It's a flaw in translation" or "You are reading the holy book wrong. Let me show you...". In the end of the day most religious people try to indoctrinate my thinking in a certain direction.

So once we move from an open-minded discussion about the idea of a God (and the holy books) we quickly go from there to a more every-day practical religion. A religion which guides people to only find answers within one sphere and subjecting e.g. science (“Is it ok to do DNA research on fetuses” etc. I don’t want religion to define answers for these complex questions.). Again, I am formulating it a little rough here.

Now, I am not a non-believer by choice. Every day I am struck by the wonders of life and the universe. There might even be a God. The important thing for me is to -endlessly- ask new questions like:

Is there a God? What is life all about? What happens when I die? And so on. Some of the things you write about actually. You know - the big questions in life :)

The following intellectual spheres can help me ask or understand those questions: Religion, philosophy and science.

But, and here is an important 'but':

1. No one of these spheres a superior to each other. They can and should constantly challenge each other. One discovery in one sphere will instantly have an effect in another sphere. A scientific discovery can quickly change something in the other spheres and visa versa. But my point is that no sphere is superior to another and each sphere is based on its own kind of values.

2. The question about the question.

For me the questions are much more important than the answers. Finding the right questions to ask will, in my world, lead to a better understanding of 'everything' (again, an overkill formulation).

My experience with religion is, that it guidelines people to search find an answer in the holy text. It always results in some kind of quote from the holy text. The same approach you use.

And quite quickly those people stop asking the interesting questions which conflicts with the holy text. Simplified it ends in two directions -> Nothing ever conflicts with the holy text (because believers bend all arguments to fit). That renders the holy texts quite uninteresting because everything fits. Or -> The initial question is really never answered. Simply because the holy text does not provide an answer but most ppl think the holy text does (because it must). So it ends up being a tabu or an ‘illegal’ question.

Like some thinking of Einstein, Kant or Stephen Hawking. In my view practicing religion in a certain way lead to ppl 'stop thinking'. I don't mean that people are stupid, but they start wearing only one set of glasses to understand the world instead of being able/open for the idea to just change their glasses once in a while. And even to confess that they might wear some very old glasses with some inbuilt failures ?

And that's why I don't agree with your hub. I feel that you bend or modify some basic principles to, in this case, make science sub-superior to religion (as a proof of divinity). You subject the principles of science to proof that Muhammad (pbuh) was right and science actually confirms it. And the worst part is that these basic principles are founded on a set of values which reflect some common values humans have to offer. One of those values would be 'truth'. (Total new discussion?

Now, it's almost impossible for any human to claim absolute truth. Basically because humans are imperfect creatures. Interesting enough -> Humans can think of a perfect creature: God. That's 100% fine with me since I cannot disprove the existence of God either. And that's not my business. But there is a huge difference between 'a God' and the God Christians, Muslims and other religions worship.

In a perfect world (my perfect naïve romantic world) you would be an expert in religions and we both, a religious guy (you) and a skeptical empiric like me, would search for some answers. We would support each other by exchanging thoughts and ideas without any prejudices. But we would both know that we would never find the answer in this life. We only get closer to it, but we'll never touch it. And we would definitely not try to organize societies and human behavior after those ideas (alone).

It's actually a metaphor for the body. Religion is for my soul, science for my intellect and philosophy for my mind. You can't separate them from each other if you want a healthy human existence. But what I won't do is to confess to one God and guideline my mind and intellect after my choice of God. (I’m not saying that you do it, but religion is). That's basically the 'problem' with religion how it is applied to the every-day use. It tries to conquer a superior standing point in the concept of human mindset. I even call it a parasite once religion is used to enslave science and philosophy and sneak it through the backdoor. Ok, again - I'd put it very simple. I am not objecting to your project which I fine interesting from a self reflective and philosophical point of view, but I am objecting to the system (religion) which gets support due to this project. And by system I mean the ppl behind it – not the Quran itself (or other holy books).

In the real world religious ppl knock on my door once in a while. They try to 'sell' me the idea of salvation. Mostly they are not even 20 years old and haven't tried anything in their life yet. If I ask them "Can God produce a stone so heavy that he can't lift it?" they don't know what to answer and they just pick a random quote from the book. In real life I know women with curious and very intelligent minds. They are not allowed to go to university based on 'religious' rules (it's not Gods fault - I know). In the real world religion is the misunderstood practical exercise to understand God. Religion institutionalizes ppl.

If you put a gun to my neck and force me to act like an agnostic, I'll tell you that I from my heart fully believe, that God will judge me on my thoughts and actions alone, and not if I belonged to a certain religion or which God I worshipped.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Well you certainly brought up a lot of questions. Fear not I am only going to quote scripture one time to respond to one of your points. and I will go ahead and do it now to get it out of the way.

" Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire. " Qur'an 3:19

Here God tells us to study His creation with open minds, as he says "With the Thought" yes I did write this hub with the intent of using science to "prove" divinity as you said. My intent how ever was not to make one superior to the other. It was indeed to show how they work hand in hand. Now I know that i too lack the great command of the English language that other have, and perhaps I lost my intent in my excitement.

The point I really wanted to push across is for science to inspire the pursuit of religion, and for religion to inspire the search in the scientific realm to find God or religion. Many people will not agree with my views on religion especially Islam.

I struggle daily, with many of the same problems with religion that you have mentioned above. That in its self is the beauty of religion for me and that is why Religion and Science to me are one and the same, because for me they both inspire the pursuit for truth.

I was a christian for 26 almost 27 years, yet I didn't go to church, I was in too much conflict with the same problems you mentioned above. Yet I have felt God work in my life, and I was in search of a way to worship him that I could best relate with, and for me that was Islam. there are many closed minded people in Islam, and many would shun me for saying that not only Muslims are going to heaven, but this is what i believe.

As for twisting the "Word" Yes many people do this. They quote scripture but never put in into context, they quote only part of a verse to fit their agenda. I for one do not do this, I don't agree with it. And feel free to check my postings, they are complete verses in full context.

Now for translation and meaning, yes people say with a firm hand, this is what such and such verse means. Indeed my friend they are wrong. Meaning is lost in translation. The beauty of the religious text, I wont say holy because only God is holy, is that each letter in these books has a message to the specific reader. Not every one gets the same message from the same verse because we are not meant to. As God has a different plan for each of us, so His message is unique to each of us. The truth is that these texts will never be fully translated until the last person that will be born reads them. Yes SOME, and I mean only some religious leaders today twist the text for their own gain usually financial or for what ever sadistic purpose they may have in mind. Take for example Jim Jones, The Waco guy, the Japanese guy that bombed the train with poison. And some do it in more subtle ways. the point of a religious leader is only to guide you and help when you are stumped. If you have a question and you are seeking answers, their job is only to guide you not give you that answer. For some one to answer your every question with scripture only shows their lack of knowledge in religion, as the verse they chose maybe wrong for you and push you away. When quoting scripture, one should do it in a way that shows how it answered their own questions and not force this view on others. Perhaps I did that in my hub, again this wasn't my intent, but when writing one cant have a dialog until after it is written and one rarely knows their reading audience. This is one of the main reasons I rarely quote my sources because I for one want people to seek these answers for themselves. But of course people get mad when you don't quote your source, it is understandable at times, but they should seek their own answers. As I can not provide them, This hub was written more for me than anyone else, it was not meant to be definitive proof for anyone but me, my intent was to inspire others to seek their own answers to inspire thought was my only point. I just chose specific quotes and scripture to get the thought process started. And to prove my point, my meaning in this hub has been interpreted in completely different ways by you and a couple others than the way I intended it. That is fine.

My perfect romantic world would run pretty close to yours. Some of your views on things touch my heart and soul. And you have great command of the english language.

Indeed it was my point in this hub to inspire people to ask more questions, and to seek the answers in their own ways. I don't have all the answers, and if all the Answers were in the Qur'an then why would Allah give us the verse I quoted above. Why would he tell us to look on life and the world with thought, instead of saying look in my book it is all here and that is the final answer. Now I am not negating the Qur'an and many Muslims will berate me for saying what I just did, but the Qur'an is a guide for us to follow, and when we need God to speak to us that is where we turn. When we need to feel close to Allah that is where we turn, When we are lost or lonely that is where we turn when there is nothing and no where left. Though we should also turn there when we are not having problems, to inspire our minds to go and find the Truth with Thought as Allah told us to. No one person and no one book will ever have all the answers. Though many religious people will tell you different but they are sadly wrong as you already know. If it were as simple as they say, then life would be much easier and everyone would be religious, but neither of those things are true, so there is the answer to that.

And almost every point you brought up, I too have and still struggle with everyday of my life, but I know there is a God, there is too much that has happened to me for their not to be a higher power in this world.

that is why I am Muslim only, I'm not sunni, Im not shia, or any other bend there is, I am Muslim only. and my religion is mine and mine alone. I worship Allah in the ways and traditions he tells me, not the way any man tells me. And I call myself Muslim because I read the Qur'an, the Torah and the Bible as we are instructed. I call my self Muslim because it fits best my view of religion and if you read all three books, you will find that Islam best fits the worship that Allah expects and asks of us, sure others will disagree with this, but this is the truth I have found, my truth.

I know you brought up more points, your post was long, I read it all and cant hope to respond to it all right now, as I am just not that capable. My mind is only so big and with the little I just said it is already tired. :D

You have made many great points though my friend, and you are very intelligent. Thank you for your responses they have inspired me to think. Though I am better at thinking than responding, I have a hard time getting the things in my head onto paper, I hope I made my points clear.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

OMG, if you don't mind me saying so, you should join hubpages and write. Maybe you don't want to, but your English is fine, and you are an interesting person. Your approach and view on life is very profound, I'm sure you have a lot to say that people would love to read. Let me know if you decide to join. Salam for now my friend.

and forgive my long posts, I know I write a lot of words without saying much.


OMG 6 years ago

Thank you very much. No, you write a lot and the amount of words is just fine:)

I'll think about your comment. Maybe we'll see each other in future on the hub. Godspeed my friend:)


khmohsin profile image

khmohsin 6 years ago from London,UK

Salam, I really appreciate your research work and all the points which you mentioned for the Quran. I am also a strong believer of Islam and inshaALLAH will find the latest research works which are done on the Quran. Its 100% true that scientists are working anxiously on verses of Quran.

Well, really enjoyed your hub. Keep it up. ALLAH may succeed you in your intentions.

JazakaALLAH,

Best Regards,


Aysha 6 years ago

Something about 'six days'.

The six days mentioned in the Quraan are six long periods, as the Arabic word used is "ayaam" . This Arabic word has got some meanings and the main meaning is six eras. The word used in bible is exactly six twenty four hour days.

Scientists agree that the universe was created in six eras.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

thank you for the kind words khmohsin, and please share any findings you discover inshaa Allah.

Aysha, thank you for the comment, I need to look into the six period thing. It is an interesting concept and needs to be mentioned more. The thing about the bible is there are so many translations on it, it is just diluted though we should still study it as Eisa is a part of it and there is good information for us Mulsims in it.


Neverletitgo profile image

Neverletitgo 6 years ago from Minneapolis, MN

I am glad that you explained very well the miracle of the Holy Quran about Embryology. May Allah add for your scale of good deeds, Amen.


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pintails7886 6 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Thank you Neverletitgo, i have a great powerpoint that covers embryology in the quran. If you want it, contact me with your email. That goes for anyone who would like to see it.


freeman 5 years ago

My Dear Friend,

whatever details you collect or however indepth reading you make,it will not help you to attain the truth unless you come out of that nutshell . every religion frames its own nutshell and traps people inside it . when you have put your entire trust on something , whatever knowledge you acquire tend to be biased to prove itself right. you were doing the same thing here all along.

first you have to break that nutshell and come out. think free...think like a plain human being .

please don't compare religion and science....religion formulated stories of man's evolution using its own imagination , a very simple and silly task,,,,,but science did not cook stories instead provided you facts and proof about the existense of life...

good luck my friend...

please let ur children think free.. do not feed them the stupidities of religion...

for you, i think its too late to think otherwise...

regards,

Free Man


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pintails7886 5 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Hey Freeman, welcome to my hub and thank you for the comment.

I know you didn't mean to but i was offended by your comment. Not that I think you meant that, but I always thought of myself as open minded. So I guess I offended myself. However I think you may have misjudged me a bit.

I will admit i am very closed minded about certain things. However Science and Religion is not something I think I am closed minded about. If you read my hub about how I cam to Islam, maybe you will get a better since of that, at least I hope you would.

Anyways, I was not comparing science to religion or at least that was not my intent, indeed I believe that they are the same thing. This hub conveys what is in the Qur'an and the history books to the best of my knowledge (which may be limited, do to my small brain size, lol) Anyways my religious views do not follow any one single doctrine, I call my self Muslim because more of my beliefs fit in that category, also I have and always will be interested in science as well as religion.

I don't know many people who are not religious but scientific that will admit this but science takes a lot of faith as well as religion. What you call it doesn't matter but the fact remains that it takes something to believe fully in both.

As a scientist we would believe that evolution happened exactly how the book tells us it does, however there is yet to be found a direct link from what man evolved from. But as scientists we have faith that this did happen, we believe it and know it with out entire body that this is true even though we cant see it or study it or document it, but all the proof we need is already in front of us.

Religion is exactly the same, at least in my view it is. I except a lot of what science tells me because this is also what God tells me, I don't know if you have read my other science in Islam hub stars and parallel universes is the subject here is the link:

the stars, parallel universes, and particles beyond the atom in the quran?

Maybe it is my closed mind but what exactly about religion makes me so closed minded? regardless if there is a supreme being out there or not, even science has documented many positive effects of religion especially in the medical field. Maybe it is just placebo or some other phenomena science has not yet uncovered but the fact remains that it works none the less no matter what powers it.

Sure religion has its down sides and some people take it to extremes and give all religions a bad rap, but science has been guilty of the same things from time to time, at least that is the way I see it.

Again thank you for you comment and please visit me any time you like. I hope you have a great day and wish you all the best.


Micky Dee profile image

Micky Dee 5 years ago

Incredible write pintails. You've taken a lot of time and put in a lot of work. I appreciate what you've done here.

God bless the endeavors. But most "discussion" about religions and science and politics -just divides us on things that should not matter to the Sweatshop mom and many other slaves. This is a nice forum. We can eat pastries and drink espresso while we contemplate the mysteries of God. I will stay on my simple path and insist that all religions join where they can and that common ground is that Golden Rule. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." "Love your brother and sister as yourself". There is not one thing that matters more. Any attachment to any religion that will not uphold this law and raise his brother, is folly. I can hardly see the difference between a Baptist, Presbyterian, Muslim. How many religions are there? There are as many as there are people. Even with every Muslim there is a difference in the hue of the sky.

Every person on Earth is subject to slavery without a voice. There is no square inch on Earth that is safe from a businessman.

People can debate their origin until the Earth is paved. It will mean slavery for millenniums more. The Muslim nation will not soon defeat the real wicked of this Earth, not in the next eon. Same for Christians and Christianity. It's the same for every group including Atheists. Many Atheists are against evil. Many are not against there being a God. People of all faiths will proclaim to be respectful of life. Yet! We can all see the insanity of this world.

Push the fingers toward those in charge. Is money and power for the sake of slavery, in charge? Poke the finger there.

This capitalism that starts sweatshops all over the world, is sick! This capitalism that starts wars for resources and financial gain is amok. Capitalism hires its own armies! Blackwater is now Xe Services. American kids are CULLED every few years because of resources.

Every child born into the world should be taught to "play" nice with the sister, the brother, the neighbor. Every child is taught this or should be. It's natural. Yet every capitalistic adult is taught that you must sacrifice hours and hours, limbs, marriage, AND OUR CHILDREN to endless wars. All the fighting in the world seems to be fleas fighting over the dog.

Great write pintails. God bless you bud. I appreciate your hard work here. You have really tried to explain a lot. Thank you for allowing me to comment with such a wonderful work! God bless you nephew!


yousuf gabriel 5 years ago

THE QURAN PHENOMENALLY CHARACTERIZES THE ATOMIC HELL AND AVERTS IT. (1)

As a miracle undeniable by scientist, Einstein or Sir James Jean--- and the philosopher , Russell or Freud’s warning , a challenge, a key to man’s future destiny, the sole method of averting the atomic ruin, a design of Noah’s Ark in this nuclear, fiery deluge, and the only irrefutable proof of the Quran’s divine original, I declare this prophetic warning of the Quran to the world, indeed my own discovery by the grace of Al-mighty Allah along with its 3000 page English explanation. The Quran says:-

“Woe to every back-biter, defamer, who amasseth wealth (of this world) and arrangeth it (against the future). He thinketh that his wealth will render him immortal. Nay, for, verily he shall be cast into Al-Hotama. And what could teach thee, what Al-Hotama is? It is kindled fire of Allah which leapeth up onto the hearts. It is (a fire) closed in on them in outstretched columns”.

(Quran-104- Al-Homaza)

Herein this modern Baconian atomismistic progress is given out, as the cause of the appearance of the manifestations of the atomic hell, e.g. the atomic bombs and atomic radiations etc. But the worst aspect of the whole affair is the identity between the causes of the appearance of this transient atomic hell and the eternal atomic hell, the Hotama of the next world. Those deserving might escape this transient atomic hell, but none among the deserving shall escape the eternal Hotama. Dreadful aspect. And know that this transient atomic hell is the representation of the Hotama of the next world.

The Characterization of the cause of the appearance of the atomic hell that is this modern Baconian atomismistic progress by the Quran:-

i. The Quran says : “backbiter, defamer”. This is the age of atomism. Atomism, both ancient Greek as well as this modern Baconian is a kind of doctrinal slander against faith. Its doctrine and its purpose has imparted a slanderous temper to the modern critical rationalism. The result is an intellectualized type of slander, nicknamed as propaganda. This is an age of slander, every way slander.

ii. The Quran says “He amasseth wealth (of this world) and arrangeth it (against the future).No better description of this modern, continuous, ever-increasing, systematic, organized, infinite and universal process of wealth-accumulation, and its systematic arrangement for future, could be expected.

iii. The Quran says. “He thinketh that his wealth will render him immortal”. Mark man’s faith in the continued eternity of this modern progress and see man’s solicitude about the durability of the worldly works, as if he thinks, he has for ever to live in this world.

iv. The Quran says, “Nay, for verily he shall be cast into the atomic hell”. The slandering wealth-accumulator’s notion of eternity is denied. The logical and scientific consequence of the process has now appeared in the form of atomic hell to deny his notion and to destroy both him and his accumulated wealth.

The cause of the appearance of atomic hell having been explained now read the description of the result that is the atomic phenomenon by the Quran.

The characterization of the atomic phenomenon by the Quran :-

“Otama”! And what could teach thee what Al-Otama is? It is fire of Allah enkindled which leaps up onto the hearts. It is (a fire) closed in on them in outstretched columns. (Quran-Al-Homaza- 104)

The O of Otama is stressed by H in the Quran. We will discuss now point by point:-

(1) The Quran says : “Otama”. Otama is a pure Arabic word derived from the root-verb ATAMA or Hatama, which means to break something into pieces or to shatter it. Otama or Hotama is descriptive noun and means a breaker or crusher. That the Quran should call a fire by the name of breaker would at once call to the mind of the scientist the German term “Bremsstrahlung” which literally meant breaking radiation and was applauded as highly descriptive by the atomists when first coined by the Germans for continuous spectrum forays. Not only this, but it has to be observed that the characteristic of breaking or crushing is one of these particular characteristics of the atomic phenomenon which distinguish it from all the rest of the phenomena, chemical, electrical or gravitational. Mark the atomic energy appearing by breaking the blinding of the atomic nucleus. Atomic and only the atomic energy is generated in this manner and none other. Not only this, but further, the Atomic Phenomenon may be regarded as the absolute crusher. Since its breaking and crushing is of a nature absolute. Atoms once crushed could not be reconstructed by any method of synthesis. Nucleus once disintegrated could not be rearranged in its original form by any means or method. So completely absolute is the crushing involved in the atomic actions and reactions that the destruction of both the basic building block of the universe that is atom and basic unit of life that is the cell is embraced. This again is a characteristic which distinguishes the atomic phenomenon from all the rest. Not only this, but further the atomic radiations that are inherent in the very nature of the atomic phenomenon, show the identical trait of breaking and crushing. In inanimate matter they break the atomic nuclei and cause transmutations of atoms by changing the form of the nuclei. In living bodies, they attack the cell nucleus and break the chromosomes thereof.

The heat flash of the atomic bomb explosion falls with a crushing impact like lightning on the body and kills the heart of its victim with the shock. The blast of the atomic bomb is terrible crusher of structures, while the radiations of the atomic bomb explosion carry out the process of crushing in the usual way. The first two features may be observed in the conventional bombs also. But what is the crushing wrought by the conventional bombs to that wrought by the atomic bomb.

This trait, that of breaking and crushing on the part of atomic phenomenon may be observed with conspicuity in all the standard text books of atomic physics that may be found replete with terms like “ bombarding, crushing, smashing, hitting, breaking etc in the description of the actions and reactions of atomic phenomenon. Likewise the standard text books of radiobiology maybe found replete with phrases like, target concept, Direct action, indirect action, snapping the cable with a bullet, breaking the chromosomes, and sentences like. Radiations hit the cells like sledge hammer and crush them, while describing the actions and reactions of radiations. To this may beaded the words of Rutherford that expressed his astonishment at the crushing trait of the atomic particles. After his famous experiment in which he had bombarded the gold foil a with alpha particles, he wrote in his diary, “ It was an incredible as if you fired a 15 inch shell at a piece of tissue paper and it came back and hit you. It was the most incredible moment that ever happened to me in my life”.

Lastly back to the question of the phonetic and functional identity existing between the word atomic and Quran’s atomic. The former being coined or adopted by the scientist and the latter by the Quran. Atom no longer means something indestructible, while Otama of the Quran means a destroyer and both expressive of the act of breaking. Do mark the sound of the two words! It appears to be one word. Is this then a mere coincident? No, the exact, characterization of the atomic phenomenon by the Quran exlcudes the possibility. Rather it appears that he, who coined the term Otama, had before his eyes, indeed supernaturally penetrating eyes, the entire theme of atomic phenomenon and all the future ages. The term Otama being neither Greek nor English enhances the wonder at being so similar a term as atomic even in the Arabic tongue. What other name could be given to this fact if not a miracle?

(2) The Quran says :- “Otama is fire of Allah enkindled”. This point involves no complexity. Atomic phenomenon produces energy. Energy produces heat. Heat produces fire. The association of fire with atomic bombs and radiations is a well known fact. But why Allah should associate this partic


:)) 5 years ago

i like it :DD

keep up the good work :))

may allah bless you ^^


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

Yikes, this unfounded assertion just keeps rearing its ugly head, doesn't it? Isn't it interesting that the only sources Muslims will cite concerning this theory are Moore and Bucaille? Bucaille wrote his book decades ago, and yet it is still being cited as an authoritative source! Add to this the fact that Bucaille has never converted to Islam, and it all becomes just a little silly. I don't mean to be rude, but this theory is nonsense, plain and simple. The embryonic development alone that is depicted in the Koran is utterly at odds with science, and you need to do some interpretive magic to make the rest of it look even remotely scientific to someone possessing a critical mind. May I suggest not pursuing theories that make your religion look desperate?


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

If it interests you, by all means, please take the time to read this: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/A-Christia...


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pintails7886 5 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Regardless Jreuter, The textbook Moore wrote is still widely used today to teach the subject of embryology in colleges today. Call it nonsense all you want, but as I have offered others, I will so offer to you another source besides these two. It is a small power point made by the former head of embryology at an Indian university hospital. Indian as in India not native american. He is now the head of radiology at a very prominent university hospital in Memphis TN.

The sad fact is J that you and I could go on for decades back and forth each our own source in our view trumping out that of the other. To be honest I really don't care what religion you follow, Christian, Jew, Muslim we all follow the same God and we all have the same roots in the creation of our respective religions. I think you like so many others are going to be surprised when you get to heaven, and I hope you do, when there is a Muslim on your left and a Jew on your right.

Anyways, if you want to argue religion go waste some one else's time. My days of presuming that I know God's will or what he wants are over. If you want to discuss religion it is fine with me, but go find some one else to do it with. I have no more knowledge of God's design or Will than you or anyone else. The fact is all Religion is tainted with the influence of man and his will, and this can be seen very clearly in Christianity as well as Islam or Judaism. I don't need people on camera's or youtube videos to confirm my religion for me, as a matter of fact using those same sources is what drove me so far from God to begin with. It is not my desire to any longer argue something with people when neither of us have absolutely one single iota of that which we argue.

To be honest I no longer care what source says this or which says that. The only source I care about is God and his word in the Torah, Bible, and the Qur'an. I wish I had this same wisdom when I wrote this hub.

You and I have argued before my friend, and to do so again would be fruitless. You nor any source you can find could persuade me to become Christian, in the same respect I am sure I could not achieve the same goal with you, and to be honest I don't think I want to. Diversity is something that is Obvious God sought to accomplish when making man, who am I to seek to change that? It is part of His Will what ever that may be.


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

Aww...you disappoint me pintails. Debate is a beautiful way to sharpen one's intellect, don't you agree? Regardless, I appreciate your agreeable response. It's such a tragedy that people can't help but be so nasty. It must be the anonymity of the internet that brings out the worst in people. At least allow me my two cents regarding your comment, and then I'll not bug you anymore.

I'm confused by how jaded you are. I've personally never met a Muslim who would state that his religion was tainted by the influence of man (and yeah, I've met lots of Muslims from the M. East, and gladly some are dear friends. Generally very amazing folks, all 'round) Don't you already presume at least a portion of God's will by taking a stance on which religion is true? And furthermore, while I understand your sentiment concerning the Bible and Qur'an, surely you understand that these two sources contradict each other? Is God so apathetic as to allow our confusion?

And diversity is all well and good, but both your faith and mine condemn the unbeliever to an eternity separated from God, correct? Your own book condemns the worship of Christ as shirk, and that is a very, very bad thing to commit in Islam. If that isn't a reason to communicate and proselytize, I don't know what is. Perhaps it's more comfortable for you to not think of such things?

I don't recall our last discussion ("argument" seems a bit strong), did you have a different profile pic a while back?


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pintails7886 5 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Yeah, I had a picture of myself at one time. And you are correct, debate does sharpen the mind. As you stated on the internet debate seems to be more fighting and name calling and sharpening ones intellect.

I see no point, in going back and forth about who is right and who is wrong. Simply put, you think the bible and quran contradict each other, I disagree with that statement. so now that I made that statement you will show me versus that support your theory based on your interpretation on them. That is all good and well, though your interpretation on them may be correct, so could mine even if it were the total opposite of your interpretation the simple truth here, is that we are both right and both wrong.

God has a different plan for you than for me there is no denying that no matter what religion you follow. So then it would stand to reason that God has a different message for you than He has for me.

Because I believe the Bible states that Jesus is a man, and you believe it supports he is God, this really does not make us so different. In fact I believe it makes us more alike than different. Yes, I think God is so apathetic to allow our confusion. What is the point of life at all if there is no confusion between the lines?

Religion is based on perceptions and interpretations in my view. There for, no Muslim, Christian, or Jew completely follow the same religion as the person next to them in their respective place of worship. This is one point that attracted me to Islam, the individuality in it. The fact that my deen and my emam, are not and never will be the same as the person next to me, or the person leading my prayer. With this in mind, i believe it helps shield me from any man telling me how or what to think. Yes i ask opinions when I do not understand something, but when i gain understanding I always go back to that problem with my mind, and do not just accept that of the other person.

As far as me saying things Muslims wouldn't agree with, well if you read my writing, I say lots of things the "average" Muslim would not agree with. But that does not make me wrong and it doesn't make them right, it only makes us both human.

I guess what I am saying is, if you want to pick each others brains this is fine, however if you want to set out to try to prove each other wrong, then you would be wasting both of our time. I'm sure you would agree that we are not likely to bring each other to think the same, and I really would not want that anyways. But again I will say, that a lot of good people are going to be surprised when they get to heaven, and that I hope i am right about. After all we both believe the God is most merciful and very forgiving when we ask for His mercy and forgiveness. i would hate to think it is all for naught, but I really don't think it is.


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

Thanks for the thoughtful words pintails. I'll toss up a prayer for you, and please do the same for me. God bless.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 5 years ago from Memphis TN Author

will do jreuter.


Rad Man 5 years ago

pintails, I find your arguments compelling and intriguing however should not these holy books be perfect. Shouldn't there be no contradictions?

The earth is not shaped like any egg and not laid out like a carpet. I would pay attention if E=mc2 was in the qur'an. Show me evidence please. Understanding the birth process? It's my understanding the qur'an says sperm comes from somewhere in the back. Please help understand the discrepancies.


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pintails7886 5 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Rad Man, I think some of the examples laid out in holy book are put into terms that the less uneducated would understand. Like say the earth being shaped like an egg, well it's not flat we know that we also know its not a perfect sphere in fact it is more oblong what part is stretched depends on the part closest to the sun. really saying its egg shaped may have been the simplest way to explain it at the time.

I may get slamed by this by many others in my faith but I for one think that holy books are not with out their flaws, after all it was a human that recorded them. the bible wasn't written by Jesus, the Torah wasn't written by Abraham or Adam and the quran wasn't written by Muhammad. That to me is where faith comes in, you have to use your heart and mind to guide you with some things.

sorry i need to cut this short i will try to come back later and explain more of what my belief is I am pressed for time right now, but didn't want you to think i was ignoring you.


Rad Man 5 years ago

Thanks pintails, I always say I've never meet a muslim I didn't like. I do think it's unfortunate that muslims get a bad reputation because of the extremists. Mainstream muslims should separate themselves from extremists better. That just my opinion.

As for the egg shaped earth. Saying that the qur'an was written for the uneducated is in my opinion an excuse. Saying that these books are imperfect because they were written by man is also an excuse. If exact accurate earth dimensions were given and E=mc2, I'd covert tomorrow. Why would God dumb it down. Wouldn't he know that in 1400 years science would have a better understanding of the universe?


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pintails7886 5 years ago from Memphis TN Author

yes I'm sure he was very aware of this, but also he is aware that even today the vast majority of the population of the planet is un or under educated. Maybe it is just an excuse, but then so is saying we just haven't found the missing link yet. its human nature to make excuses, but now I am making more excuses. I really wish I had all the answers for you.

Read my hub about stars in the universe i cant remember the exact title there is more physics there its incomplete to be sure, and I am not the most knowledgeable when it comes to the Qur'an, truth is I have probably forgotten more about the bible then i may ever know about the Qur'an. you know the book of Enoch was removed from the bible by the Catholic church because it was touted as too fantastic to believe, but if you read it, it clearly explains a lot of stuff people question about the bible, like dinosaurs for an example and even goes to explain the ufo phenomena. you can see why in the 14th century they thought it too fantastic but today it would make very clear scientific sense. Again I have to blame the imperfection of men here and not trusting God, Enoch is mentioned many times in the bible but his book is removed in the modern bible, this is not just an excuse it is mans fault for lack of faith. Really if you haven't you should read it, even if you are not religious it is a very good scifi story if you like that sort of thing, i do.


Rad Man 5 years ago

I think they have found the missing link. Last I read, we didn't evolve from apes. We evolved from ape like creatures. We went in one direction and the other primates went in another direction. It's fascinating.


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pintails7886 5 years ago from Memphis TN Author

yes I to have heard about this find, i have a very interesting theory about evolution my self though its not a thought i would share openly with just any one as it is quite controversial and many many people would surly get the wrong idea. I don't think it is all together that far fetched of a thought. I don't believe that modern came from a similar ancestor as apes, to me there are just way to many gaps and leaps of faith that one must take in order to believe whole heartedly in evolution, much as one needs to do with religion.

There is no doubt that "evolution" happens, as a matter of fact the more correct term for it would be Mutation and not evolution. Another quite interesting find that is fairly recent is that "evolution" happens much much more rapidly than originally thought. I'm not saying this to give credit to the earth only being 6 thousand years old, In fact I believe the earth to be closer to about 18.4 billion roughly this is what the Qur'an says at least. A bit older than current scientific models but if you notice these models date the earth as older and older every time a new discovery in that field is made. Anyways back on track, I mentioned the mutation thing to debunk the modern theory of evolution and its accepted implications in the field of science. The earth loses thousand of species of everything yearly it seems, but it also gains just as many "new" species each year, but they are not new, they are mutated or as some would say "evolved". I read an amazing article about this in time magazine last year some time. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but I did write a paper on it for psychology class. I will dig through my notes and see if I can find it and send a link your way. Give me a couple days though I am still quite busy.


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pintails7886 5 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Also I meant to address your question about sperm coming from the back. I have done some digging and I can't seem to locate that in the Qur'an. Not saying its not there. But if you contact my personal email through hub pages I will send you a quite impressive power point made by a former embryologist and now Nuclear med doctor that goes to my Mosque. As far as i know this power point contains every verse I have yet to find in the quran about the subject.


Rad Man 5 years ago

Pintailes- I do believe your theory of mutation is correct. A mutation happens, say a person with whiter skin is born in the northern hemisphere. That person has a greater chance of survival and procreation because they need less sun to create vitamin D. He passes down his mutation to more children. This is and has to be a slow process. Sorry, it's very slow.

The earth simply does not gain new species every day. We may find new species every day but that does not mean they are new. It means we just found them.

Our skin color is a perfect example of evolution. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why some humans have light skin. It seems inferior. But it's easier to collect vitamin D with lighter skin. So the people of the north or south with lighter skin can still get enough vitamin D to survive. If you imagine people with dark skin moving north. The ones born with lighter skin would be stronger because of the extra vitamin D and would procreate and over time the peoples of the north would have lighter skin as a result of mutations. This is what Darwin described.


psf profile image

psf 5 years ago from Canada

Very nice and informative hub. I appreciate pintalis, keep going..

May Allah bless us.


shaukat awan 5 years ago

THE BIBLE AND THE QURAN ON THE BREAKER INTO PIECES

By Allama Muhammad Yousuf Gabriel

Dated: 11-8-1982

Scriptures in this modern age of rationalism are generally regarded as merely the books of the religious guidance. The miraculous and the spiritual contained in the Bible has been regarded by the modern rational critics as merely unbelievable superstition. This is not exactly the case. And eye endowed with correct vision might see the things otherwise. The scientific description and the characterization of the nuclear phenomenon by the Quran fourteen hundred years ago have furnished. This world with a miracle which could not possibly be denied by any one. And here I intend to give some thing from the Bible which though not as exactly, strictly and completely scientific as is the characterization of the atomic phenomenon given by the Quran, yet it contains at least enough to dispel the view that all that is contained by the Bible in the form of miraculous, or purely spiritual is unbelievable and nonsensical. I will now give a characterization of the nuclear phenomenon as may be found in the Bible, which though giving only the main characteristic of the nuclear phenomenon, that of breaking to pieces, and in no way to be regarded as a complete description, yet serves as an example to annul the view that the existence of miraculous is a natural impossibility. I will produce a vision of Daniel in which could be found the nuclear phenomenon described with scientific clarity, while the other three phenomena, namely, the gravitational, the electrical and the minor nuclear may be seen described as quasi allegorically.

While judging between the differences of the degree and style of description by the Quran and Daniel in the Bible the difference of their respective eras have to be kept in mind. If Einstein were alive today, I would have presented this particular excerpt from the Bible to him as a suggestive aid to his research on the unification of natural forces, believing that it would have proved suggestive, resourceful, thought-provoking and interesting to him in his particular theme that of the unification of natural forces, besides the clarification of the basic characteristic of nuclear phenomenon that of breaking into pieces. Einstein indeed had the realization of this last fact as is clear from his appeals to mankind, but unfortunately the realization had come to him only too late, after only the hydrogen bomb had appeared on the scene. Now read the following from the Bible:-

"In the first year of Belshazzer, king of Babylon Denial had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters. Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts came up form the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself, on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, arise, devour much flesh. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl: the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it; and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great-things.

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of this head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame and his wheels as burning fire.

A fiery steam issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages should serve him: his dominion is an ever-lasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

I, Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.

I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

But the saints of the most high shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, and ever. Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful. Whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet.

And of the ten horns that were in his head and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the Saitns, and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Thus he said, the fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise; and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most high, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me, Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart".

(The Bible-Daniel VII-1-28)

In order to treat the subject we will follow the specific arrangement of the four natural forces to depict the four beasts of Daniel's vision:-

1. THE GRAVITATIONAL FORCE

The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings therefore were plucked and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it".

2. THE ELECTRICAL FORCE

"And behold another breast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself, on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, arise devour much flesh".

3. MINOR-NUCLEAR FORCE

"After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl: the beast had four heads; and dominion was given to it".

4. THE M


yousuf gabriel 5 years ago

THE ATOMIC FIRE AND OUTSTRETCHED COLUMNS DESCRITPTION BY QURAN

BY ALLAMA MUHAMMAD YOUSUF GABRIEL

The Quran says:-

Lo! (It is) a fire closed in on them in outstretched columns (Al-Homaza- 104)

Now, then, this fire is, a fire closed in on them! The Sahabah, that is the companions (disciples) of the Holy Prophet, said, “It is a fire, enkindled in a huge edifice with a roof on arched vaults supported by columns of vast extent". And now let us see in the light of the practical facts of Nuclear phenomenon, whether this fire is a fire closed in on them.

(a) The heat-flash

The hat-flash which we have already described as the initial radiation of the atomic explosion, a radiation which appears within a fraction of a second on detonation, and which travels with the speed of light, that is 186,000 miles per second, and lasts for only about two seconds or so, and is the only original body of atomic explosion besides the atomic radiations. It begins within a fraction of a second on detonation and after only two seconds disappears. But within these two seconds it completes its work, that of burning the skins of the people, in its effective range. The other effects of the atomic explosion, namely the blast and the atomic radiations complete their process within ten seconds at most. That is, the process of the atomic explosion begins within a fraction of a second and is complete within ten seconds. The effective range of the atomic explosion might be as far as eighty miles. Now, then who is the man, and what are the means to carry him out of the effected zone within a fraction of a second or two seconds or ten seconds. No, but the die is cast, and the destiny of those unfortunate people who happened to be within that enclosure is spun. There is no exit in case of the atomic explosion. They are in a pan, in a fold, in an enclosure. The fire is closed in on them.

(b) The story does not come to an end with this forty miles enclosure of atomic fire. The area of radio-active fallout is even larger. It may be 7000 square miles, or it may be 100,000 square miles. Nay, even it could be as large as the whole surface of the earth. For the March, 1956 test explosion (a 15 megaton bomb) it was 7000 square miles. The hazard depending on meteorological conditions and particularly the wind velocities. It may cover an area up to 100,000 square miles. Now all the persons in the fallout area must have been exposed to a large dose of deadly radiation. They must be evacuated to a safer place within a day or so following detonation, if they are to escape serious consequences. But Alas! The evacuation of so large a mass of population in so short a time is not a probability. It cannot be considered a practical thing even for a highly industrialized country. Further, where would be found a safe area, particularly in case of war, to provide a shelter to such a huge mass of evacuated people! Alas! The fire of atomic explosion has been closed in on them. A fire so treacherous as to turn back on the house of its master, who, a few moments ago had unleashed it on his foe. And then after having consumed the house of his foe, it would turn back on him and reduce his house to a heap of hot ashes.

(c) Hotama a huge edifice of fire

Now, just as the companions of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) had described the Hotama as a huge edifice of fire with a roof on arched vaults supported by columns of vast extent, the atomic explosion, certainly is a huge edifice of fire, with a roof on arched vaults, supported by columns of vast extent. We shall now describe, how it is, let us take for example, a nominal high yield fission bomb (surface burst).

Now suppose the bomb is detonated. See the fire ball, being in close contact with the earth, it has produced a gigantic crater a mile in diameter. Now the fire ball is rushing upwards, expanding and cooling. It now has assumed a diameter of three miles, strong upward air currents follow the rapidly rising ball carrying with them dust and debris. In a few minutes the explosion cloud has reached the tropopause at a height of 40 thousand feet. It has met here the temperature inversion in the atmosphere which has considerably slowed down its upward motion. Now see the cloud has literally expanded into a "Mushroom" 100 miles in diameter, placed on top of a stem of diameter about the same as that of the fire-ball (3 miles). The central portion of the cloud (head of the stem) still continues to push forward, reaching 80 thousand feet in about 10 minutes, but because of the marked increase in the temperature with height in the higher levels of the stratosphere, it cannot go much beyond 100,000 feet (20 miles) and there the head of the stem is changing into a thin layer by the stream of the prevailing current of air. This current of air shall keep this layer of fallout in circulation around the earth for many years, say ten years. During this period the particles of fallout will gradually keep on settling all over the earth, on crops, plants, soil and the sources of water etc. Now, this fallout being radioactive it will affect every thing it will come in contact with, and produce terrific results. The cow will eat the crop. You will drink its milk. The milk is radioactive. The next generation, or any other future generation will be born in the form of monsters. The disease of cancer will widely spread. The plight of humanity will then be most miserable. Alas! For them. But let us revert to our edifice of the atomic bomb.

We have portrayed the picture of the atomic explosion to you. Now please bring that picture before the eye of your mind, and see, a column three miles in diameter, ten miles high, a mushroom 100 miles in diameter resting on top of it. Now, in view of the fact that the effective range of such a bomb would be about 40 miles around, just imagine a hollow, transparent, cylindrical column 40 miles in diameter, rising upward, to meet the lower edge of the 100 miles' mushroom, the mushroom covering this 40 miles cylinder like a lid, and itself resting on the central three-mile round column, which stands like the central pole of a tent. Now the picture of the atomic edifice is complete, and it is all fire. How, majestic, how awe-inspiring. But just have a peep into the interior of it. O! What havoc is being played therein. A storm of fires raging and consuming every thing. Mad earthquakes furiously pulling down buildings. Man, women, children, and brutes being roasted alive for the feast of the devil, and so on so forth in a fire closed in on them. A fire from which there happens to be no exit, no emergency door.

But our picture of the edifice is not yet complete. It has not been fully described. Further an earth wide edifice has also been built. Just look up please, and see, above the mushroom. The upper column that of the upper story of the edifice is resting on the head of the lower central column, and rising further ten miles into the stratosphere. There, its head is melting into a layer of fallout. The layer which keeps on circulating around the earth for ten years. Now please keeping this double storeyed edifice into view, just see, all over the earth, the atom bombs symmetrically planted and then detonated simultaneously. Say 1000 atoms bombs, or say 10,000 atom bombs and see 10,000 columns rising to the height of ten miles, and there see the mushrooms like arched vaults resting on top of these 10,000 central columns, and then see from every column another column shooting upwards and reaching a height of twenty miles and there spreading itself into a layer of fallout. Then see this fallout spreading and joining to make a perfect spherical roof above the earth: whole of it. The picture now is complete. Just see the edifice with its majestic columns, its mighty mushroom-arched vaults ad its universal roof, and inform the inhabitants of Mars if there be any, of this grand achievement of demizens of the earth. Or if, you be so touched at this fate as to cry, then retire to a corner and weep to your heart's content, and wonder how the fire is closed in on them, all of them including yourself, in a universal, world-wide enclosure.

(d


yousuf gabriel 5 years ago

THE ATOMIC FIRE AND OUTSTRETCHED COLUMNS DESCRITPTION BY QURAN

BY ALLAMA MUHAMMAD YOUSUF GABRIEL

The Quran says:-

Lo! (It is) a fire closed in on them in outstretched columns (Al-Homaza- 104)

Now, then, this fire is, a fire closed in on them! The Sahabah, that is the companions (disciples) of the Holy Prophet, said, “It is a fire, enkindled in a huge edifice with a roof on arched vaults supported by columns of vast extent". And now let us see in the light of the practical facts of Nuclear phenomenon, whether this fire is a fire closed in on them.

(a) The heat-flash

The hat-flash which we have already described as the initial radiation of the atomic explosion, a radiation which appears within a fraction of a second on detonation, and which travels with the speed of light, that is 186,000 miles per second, and lasts for only about two seconds or so, and is the only original body of atomic explosion besides the atomic radiations. It begins within a fraction of a second on detonation and after only two seconds disappears. But within these two seconds it completes its work, that of burning the skins of the people, in its effective range. The other effects of the atomic explosion, namely the blast and the atomic radiations complete their process within ten seconds at most. That is, the process of the atomic explosion begins within a fraction of a second and is complete within ten seconds. The effective range of the atomic explosion might be as far as eighty miles. Now, then who is the man, and what are the means to carry him out of the effected zone within a fraction of a second or two seconds or ten seconds. No, but the die is cast, and the destiny of those unfortunate people who happened to be within that enclosure is spun. There is no exit in case of the atomic explosion. They are in a pan, in a fold, in an enclosure. The fire is closed in on them.

(b) The story does not come to an end with this forty miles enclosure of atomic fire. The area of radio-active fallout is even larger. It may be 7000 square miles, or it may be 100,000 square miles. Nay, even it could be as large as the whole surface of the earth. For the March, 1956 test explosion (a 15 megaton bomb) it was 7000 square miles. The hazard depending on meteorological conditions and particularly the wind velocities. It may cover an area up to 100,000 square miles. Now all the persons in the fallout area must have been exposed to a large dose of deadly radiation. They must be evacuated to a safer place within a day or so following detonation, if they are to escape serious consequences. But Alas! The evacuation of so large a mass of population in so short a time is not a probability. It cannot be considered a practical thing even for a highly industrialized country. Further, where would be found a safe area, particularly in case of war, to provide a shelter to such a huge mass of evacuated people! Alas! The fire of atomic explosion has been closed in on them. A fire so treacherous as to turn back on the house of its master, who, a few moments ago had unleashed it on his foe. And then after having consumed the house of his foe, it would turn back on him and reduce his house to a heap of hot ashes.

(c) Hotama a huge edifice of fire

Now, just as the companions of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) had described the Hotama as a huge edifice of fire with a roof on arched vaults supported by columns of vast extent, the atomic explosion, certainly is a huge edifice of fire, with a roof on arched vaults, supported by columns of vast extent. We shall now describe, how it is, let us take for example, a nominal high yield fission bomb (surface burst).

Now suppose the bomb is detonated. See the fire ball, being in close contact with the earth, it has produced a gigantic crater a mile in diameter. Now the fire ball is rushing upwards, expanding and cooling. It now has assumed a diameter of three miles, strong upward air currents follow the rapidly rising ball carrying with them dust and debris. In a few minutes the explosion cloud has reached the tropopause at a height of 40 thousand feet. It has met here the temperature inversion in the atmosphere which has considerably slowed down its upward motion. Now see the cloud has literally expanded into a "Mushroom" 100 miles in diameter, placed on top of a stem of diameter about the same as that of the fire-ball (3 miles). The central portion of the cloud (head of the stem) still continues to push forward, reaching 80 thousand feet in about 10 minutes, but because of the marked increase in the temperature with height in the higher levels of the stratosphere, it cannot go much beyond 100,000 feet (20 miles) and there the head of the stem is changing into a thin layer by the stream of the prevailing current of air. This current of air shall keep this layer of fallout in circulation around the earth for many years, say ten years. During this period the particles of fallout will gradually keep on settling all over the earth, on crops, plants, soil and the sources of water etc. Now, this fallout being radioactive it will affect every thing it will come in contact with, and produce terrific results. The cow will eat the crop. You will drink its milk. The milk is radioactive. The next generation, or any other future generation will be born in the form of monsters. The disease of cancer will widely spread. The plight of humanity will then be most miserable. Alas! For them. But let us revert to our edifice of the atomic bomb.

We have portrayed the picture of the atomic explosion to you. Now please bring that picture before the eye of your mind, and see, a column three miles in diameter, ten miles high, a mushroom 100 miles in diameter resting on top of it. Now, in view of the fact that the effective range of such a bomb would be about 40 miles around, just imagine a hollow, transparent, cylindrical column 40 miles in diameter, rising upward, to meet the lower edge of the 100 miles' mushroom, the mushroom covering this 40 miles cylinder like a lid, and itself resting on the central three-mile round column, which stands like the central pole of a tent. Now the picture of the atomic edifice is complete, and it is all fire. How, majestic, how awe-inspiring. But just have a peep into the interior of it. O! What havoc is being played therein. A storm of fires raging and consuming every thing. Mad earthquakes furiously pulling down buildings. Man, women, children, and brutes being roasted alive for the feast of the devil, and so on so forth in a fire closed in on them. A fire from which there happens to be no exit, no emergency door.

But our picture of the edifice is not yet complete. It has not been fully described. Further an earth wide edifice has also been built. Just look up please, and see, above the mushroom. The upper column that of the upper story of the edifice is resting on the head of the lower central column, and rising further ten miles into the stratosphere. There, its head is melting into a layer of fallout. The layer which keeps on circulating around the earth for ten years. Now please keeping this double storeyed edifice into view, just see, all over the earth, the atom bombs symmetrically planted and then detonated simultaneously. Say 1000 atoms bombs, or say 10,000 atom bombs and see 10,000 columns rising to the height of ten miles, and there see the mushrooms like arched vaults resting on top of these 10,000 central columns, and then see from every column another column shooting upwards and reaching a height of twenty miles and there spreading itself into a layer of fallout. Then see this fallout spreading and joining to make a perfect spherical roof above the earth: whole of it. The picture now is complete. Just see the edifice with its majestic columns, its mighty mushroom-arched vaults ad its universal roof, and inform the inhabitants of Mars if there be any, of this grand achievement of demizens of the earth. Or if, you be so touched at this fate as to cry, then retire to a corner and weep to your heart's content, and wonder how the fire is closed in on them, all of them including yourself, in a universal, world-wide enclosure.

(d


shahbano 4 years ago

nice report


Taalib Pugh1 profile image

Taalib Pugh1 4 years ago from Wilkes Barre Pa

Maa sha Allaah! Very nicely written and informative.


Jason Peters 4 years ago

to Joy and all the others arguing about the origins of these theories i was an atheist because i do not believe that ancient Greeks could have imagined their gods and all the world was conflicted with different "profound gods" your arguing about one point but as a Muslim friend who has saved me from the fate you will be facing unless you open your minds and do the research that took me 7 years Allah Subhanu Wata 'Ala has told us to look for the signs in nature science and everything around us to see His miracles and proof of existence there are more than 1,000 different scientific facts discovered in the past 20 years that the Quran has had in its covers for more than 1,400 years you must read the words your self no ones explanation here will compare to even one word of the actual txt but you must read it with an open mind if this is not something you can do you must not attempt it. for the gods like Athena, Hourus bla bla bla they were not imagined they were real but not gods rather helpers of Shytan(iblis/Lucifer/Satan) beings of fire whom can shapeshift they are called Jinn.... May Allah's Mercy be upon us all for the blasphemy that takes us whilst this conversation continues


James-wolve profile image

James-wolve 2 years ago from Morocco

In Islam, there is no conflict between faith in God and modern scientific knowledge. Indeed, for many centuries during the Middle Ages, Muslims led the world in scientific inquiry and exploration. The Quran itself, revealed 14 centuries ago, contains many scientific facts and imagery that are supported by modern findings.

Good article !Thanks for sharing!


Rad Man 2 years ago

Like when the Quran says the earth is egg shaped?


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 2 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Rad, I suggest you read about "tidal force". The earth is not a perfect sphere in fact it is more ovoid, or egg shaped. This is due in part to the moon and in part the sun, and in part all the other massive objects in our solar system.


Rad Man 2 years ago

The earth is no where near egg shaped. Eggs are pointy at one end and are longer than wide. The earth is wider (more fat around the middle) than a ball even.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 2 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Actually it would depend on the type of egg you are talking about. A chicken egg most certainly fits your description, others not so much.

The Qur'an says "like and egg" though I suppose that may vary on who translated the version you are reading or if its the original Arabic.

But think of an egg laying on its side, factor in both the tidal force on the ocean its self and the tidal force on the actual crust of the planet, The Earth is stretched and elongated and contracts and "shrinks" around the equator, just as you described, back and forth and back and forth. Making it in some descriptions "like and egg", though ovoid is the term I prefer.

But then you see we come to an argument of semantics. There is no way for either of us to know what kind of egg Gabriel or by extension Muhammad meant. I'm not sure they had chickens, I don't recall their mention in the Bible but I may be mistaken. Though they were trading with Asia so it is very possible they did indeed have chickens.


Rad Man 2 years ago

There are no eggs that are shaped anything like the earth. Look it up. You'll find all kinds of people attempting to convince you that the earth is egg shaped if you do a simple google search. It's simply wrong.

http://www.gettyimages.ca/detail/photo/egg-shaped-...


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 2 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Rad what shape is the earth?


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 2 years ago from Memphis TN Author

I was incorrect about the type of egg. The egg in question is an Ostrich egg.

http://youngwritersproject.org/files/ostrichEggful...

It isn't a wholly bad description, from a two dimensional perspective. When you factor in Tidal bluge and other tidal forces, one side of the Earth is always stretched out further than any other part of the Earth and this changes with the moons rotation, the earths rotation and its position relative to the rest of the massive bodies in our solar system.

However this is assuming of course if you believe that the Qur'an is imperfect.

The worth Gabrielle used was "dahaha" The word that means Ostrich egg is "duhiya" which is also the root word for dahaha. However there meanings are not anything near the same. Much like the English language root words from Greek are often different. Dahaha actually means, spread out. There is no actual verse in the Qur'an that says anything about an egg.

The verses that actually mention the Earth in the Qur'an are as follows;

Qur'an 79:30

Qur'an 78:6

Qur'an 71:19

Qur'an 51:48

Qur'an 50:7

Qur'an 43:10

Qur'an 20:53

Qur'an 15:19

It is all a matter of perspective. And our arguments are a matter of semantics. It's quite pointless.


Rad Man 2 years ago

I stopped reading after "from a two dimensional perspective" as we are not talking about two dimensions. An Ostrich egg is the shape of a very large egg. Please stop attempting to convince yourself the earth is egg shaped.


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 2 years ago from Memphis TN Author

First off I never said the earth was egg shaped, I said it was ovoid go read my above comments.

Though much like your above comment I have serious doubts you have read any of this conversation or this hub. I think you have come here with an idea in your mind, in some effort to convince your self you are mentally superior.

In fact if you read my first comment I even go as far to refute your claim that the Qur'an says the Earth is egg shaped.

All I have done so far is argue that an egg is ovoid and so is the earth. Both of which are facts. Don't take my word for it go read USDA description of a grade A egg, then go read the NASA.gov description of the Earth.

That said, I can fully see why some one would label the Earth as egg shaped. But as I said in my first comment if you look from the stand point of the Qur'an being imperfect and you change words depending on translation then and only then does the Qur'an say anything about an egg shape to the earth. But then the verse would read I ostrich egg the earth unto you like a carpet and all things in it are balanced.

So I will ask you again what shape is the Earth?


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 2 years ago from Memphis TN Author

Not all eggs are the same shape, and and ostrich egg and a chicken egg look very dissimilar. Here is a comparison http://www.teawea.com/wp-content/uploads/size-diff...

I think you are confused about the shapes of eggs. Please bear in mind that this is only a partial list of eggs and is not complete, but I offer you 2 illustrated guides.

http://www.palass.org/modules.php?name=palaeo_math...

If that is too complex here is a children's illustrated version

http://www.carlemuseum.org/sites/default/files/egg...


pintails7886 profile image

pintails7886 2 years ago from Memphis TN Author

It seems that DiVinchi took a liking to the Earth being shaped like an Ostrich egg. This is the oldest known globe of the Earth that includes North and South America. A bit off topic but still pretty cool.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2013/08/...

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