Taking the fear out of Atheism, Or It's ok to be an atheist, you won't miss out on heaven or burn in hell.

First hymnal for Atheists by Steve Martin

Why do religionists believe in hell?

Burning in hell has got to be one of the most hideous ways to spend eternity. Imagine a pit of eternal fire specifically designed to torture your soul. A fire so non-consuming, it burns forever. Imagine the absence of a great and powerful god. Some say that in itself is hell.

Religionists in their loving way want to save you from this excruciating dungeon, this hell governed by satan/beelzebub/thedarkone/thedevil.They want to spread the word of the savior, the one true way of avoiding the fire and brimstone pit of evil.

Spreading the word of the "son of god", "Jesus Christ", or any other "angel of goodness" / "savior" is their way of buying their ticket into heaven and saving you from everlasting damnation. Isn't that deserving of heaven? Apparently, if they don't do these things, they will end up in the pressure cooker of hell themselves.

Their favorite question or statement is - "Why do atheists even want to give up their chance of heaven?" If you don't believe in god, then you must believe in satan and therefore will end up in hell forever. At least with a firm worshipful belief in god, they know where they are going when they die.

Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.

— Isaac Asimov

Their promise of heaven...

Walking on golden streets, living in a mansion next to god, never being thirsty or hungry again. This is heaven and if we are good little religionists, this is what we will inherit when we die. Everything will be perfect.

This heavenly reward is what excites religionists! They are special! They are chosen to live forever! They are the elite! The very promise of heaven warms their heart and causes intense feelings of love and worship for their gods!

They are so special that god has made sacrifices of his own just to bring this promise of heaven to his flock. If you worship him and his son and his son's mother and his angels and his commandments, then you too will live in godly grace forever. If you do not, well, then you will be condemned to the very worst of punishments. You will rend your garments and grind your teeth and scream in torment until the end of time.

Where is Hell?
Where is Hell? | Source

God's punishment....

How can you bear the thought of hell? All God asks is that you believe in him and he will give you everlasting life. All you have to do is get down on your knees and pray and ask for forgiveness and presto, chango you too will be saved from the burning pit of hell. He promises. Really, he does. Of course now, if you don't do this, he also promises to torture you for eternity!

You know this really sounds like the lunch room bully - if you swear to give that kid your lunch money every day of your life, he will let you live. If you don't, he'll pound you into the ground and take your lunch anyway.

Religionists have also declared that your special hell will be customized! If you are afraid of the dark, then you will be locked in a lightless room forever. If you are afraid of pain, you will boil in hot oil for eternity. Whatever scares you the most will be your fate because god knows. Yes, he knows the worst torture imaginable for you should you decide that heaven is invisible and probably doesn't exist. After all, the gods know what is good for you, they created you after all. They raised you and provided for you and answered your prayers and if you can't see them, well, that's just the biggest sin ever and you are obviously being blinded by the devil, so therefore you must join him in the underworld and endure his best guest rooms complete with demons and pitchforks.

I don’t want to die any more than anyone else, and I think it’s a strange myth that atheists have nothing to live for. It’s the opposite. We have nothing to die for. We have everything to live for.

— Ricky Gervaise

Fear is a powerful thing...

Fear causes many people to do many things. Fear can cause religionists to believe in heaven. Fear causes religionists to believe in hell. Fear causes them to go out and preach the "word of god". They are afraid that if they don't do this, they will burn in hell. Where they come up with this is beyond me.

Jesus was Jewish and as such did not believe in "hell". Again, I ask, "Where did this notion of hell come from?"... It's the boogieman! Parents scare their children into behaving by threatening them with the boogieman. Preachers, Priests, Religionists thought to themselves, "Wow, we can use Satan just like parents use the boogieman!" The flock will be so scared of NOT believing, of NOT tithing, of NOT going to heaven we'll have them by the collar!

Satan, god's fallen angel, became the master of deceit. He was cast out of heaven and apparently went on to build the nastiest, demon infested underworld that religionists could ever imagine and then some. Then he went about recruiting the "bad" people of the world to do his evil bidding. Why some of them say he even controls people that don't believe in gods at all! I suppose they have seen this nasty being? with their own eyes, they've had glimpses of the fiery pit. They know that if you are NOT a member of their ditto-head flock that you will be going straight there, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

The devil made them do it!

The universe has a Happy Face!
The universe has a Happy Face! | Source

Life, the universe, and everything!

Well, fear no more, folks. Satan doesn't exist. He's not real. There is no heaven, there is no hell. You don't have to give up the promise of salvation to achieve some make believe reward.

We already exist! Our smallest parts are also part and parcel of life, the universe, and EVERYTHING! No one, not even a "god" can destroy any little part of you. It may change form, but every atom that exists now, has always existed, and will always exist. There is no place for your atoms to go when they "die". They don't ever, ever, ever die!

Even religionists said it - "ashes to ashes, dust to dust". You are what you are. Your structure was formed by atoms that already existed. They weren't created from anything, they were always here. No one, not even a "god" can create something from nothing.

Just by virtue of being here means that your essence, your structure, your YOU-ness was assembled from already existing matter, space and time. Your atoms were not created by some mythical god-like being. Again, something cannot be created from nothing. There must be some raw material to work with, to assemble, to come together and become a recognizable entity. Even the gods had to be assembled from something!

Religionists created the myths, the legends, the controlling beings to explain things that they could not understand like the wind, the sun, birth and death. They created gods to control you with promises of "heaven" and threats of "hell". They created stories to sucker you into joining their "club". They created BOOKS to spread their philosophy. Man wrote the bible, the torah, the talmud, the koran and others. They told you it was inspired by some "god".

Temple Mount - Dome of the Rock
Temple Mount - Dome of the Rock | Source

Why would they do that?

Well, it certainly sounded good. Just put your money here to help the preachers spread the "good word". They will save people's souls and keep them safely out of hell. Then they repeated that story over and over until it was "truth". They sold people a bill of goods. And people bought it, by the billions.

Because they were afraid. Afraid that if they didn't, they would be cast out, they would burn in hell, they would not be "good" enough. They even went so far as to try to eliminate the competition for heaven. They killed Jesus. They killed jewish people. They killed muslims. They killed men, women, and children in the "name of god". Hitler killed so many non-christians and gypsies that he even made himself look bad and surely must be roasting in hell even as we speak.

Well, fear no more! We already own life, the universe, and everything. We'll never be de-created. There is no Santa Clause and there is no Grinch. Those are just legends too. It won't cost you a penny to treat fellow humans as deserving of life. To live and let live as it were. And when we die? Well, we just become a differently arranged set of atoms (dust to dust) that, during eternity, will be re-arranged into some other part and parcel of the universe. Enjoy!

I object to religion in science classrooms not because it's religion but because it's not science

— Niel deGrasse Tyson

Believe it or not...

What do you believe?

  • in the Abrahamic God?
  • in the non-Abrahamic Gods?
  • in spirituality (no god)?
  • in evidence that has yet to prove a god or god exists?
  • in Humanism?
  • Other?
See results without voting

© 2010 Austinstar

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Comments - Why can't YOU just live and let live? Why do you have to go somewhere when you "die"? 48 comments

Diogenes 5 years ago

So well put...hilarious. Put me in mind of a poem I once wrote, here it is:

Reincarnation

Why invent this thing called Death,

When really we mean birth.

An end to all the suffering

That plagues us here on Earth.

An end to friendship's feigning;

Of lover's fevered dance.

It's the logical alternative;

It's Nature's second chance.

Instead of merely looking on,

Be a part of all your see:

A part of every bird and beast;

Of every rock and tree.

This emotional apartheid;

This foolish Catholic curse.

Man is not the king of -

He IS the Universe.

I was pretty young, but it does say it I think...Bob


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Bob, you nailed it! That's a great little poem there. Isn't it liberating and wonderful to know that we are the universe and the universe is us? Gosh darn it, we don't have to worship some mythical bully being?


Merlin Fraser profile image

Merlin Fraser 5 years ago from Cotswold Hills

Both Heaven and Hell are lies..... Simple really, they are manmade inventions by the ancient religious mafia. Mafia too strong a comparison....? No I don’t think so not when you look back and see that both Church and Mafia use the same intimidating threat of death for those that didn’t toe the party line.

“You will get your reward in Heaven !” Was the way that the old Church got a lot of Free Labour, it was a lie, but a brilliant one.... whoever came back to say they got screwed ? The Muslins have got a good one as well, what is they promise their warrior martyrs.... how many virgins ?

When are the dull sods going to wake up and realise if it was that good then wouldn’t the religious leaders be at the head of the suicide bombers queue ?

So if you are going to get your reward in Heaven you just gotta have something to threaten all those, like me, that say “Sod that Vicar I’ll take mine in Cash...Now....If it’s all the same to you !”

“Hell and Damnation for eternity shall be your reward...” Yep! Sounds pretty scary... but it’s just another brilliant lie, again who has ever returned from the dead to say “Hey the Priest was right be good or Else....?”

But why bother with all this anyway ? If whoever is a true Atheist then they don’t give such things a second thought, There is no God. (Period)

If on the other hand some do give it a second thought then they are not Atheists but Agnostics , I think that’s a bit like floating between Democrat and Republican and not being able to work out if your one or the other.

Of course the bit that I’m looking forward to is this so called ‘Day of Reckoning’ I really....really want to be there for that, Hell I’ll settle for being a fly on the wall just to see the smug smiles being wiped from thousands of Holier than Thou faces as they are told to go away and re read the bits about ‘Love thy Neighbour, ‘ ‘The Milk of human kindness’ and especially the bit ‘Forgiveness.’


GusTheRedneck profile image

GusTheRedneck 5 years ago from USA

Hi Lela (Austinstar) - Many moons ago I learned that it is unwise of a person to engage in discussions of religion with anyone having one view or another about it.

That includes fussing with folks who declare that they "have no religion," which, of course, IS their religion. I would quote a learned preacher of my acquaintance who, when asked why he repeatedly said certain things as he was sermonizing week after week, "I say those things repeatedly because the people like them." Fair enough, right?

Gus :-)))


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Gus, I love your church of grass attitude! You're the best.

Merlin, if we are there when the day of reckoning comes, I suspect we'll be too shocked for words! Religionists actually owning up to their sins? Unbelievable.


diogenes profile image

diogenes 5 years ago from UK and Mexico

Hahahahah And the Muslims being promised 70 virgins, or whatever number it is. Having sex with just ONE virgin is enough for any sensible man!! Bob


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

I think having to go through life without ever eating bacon would be punishment enough for muslims, much less having to deal with 100 virgins when they're DEAD! LOL indeed.


christopheranton profile image

christopheranton 5 years ago from Gillingham Kent. United Kingdom

Useful and enjoyable, but I do have to ask this. If there is a constant amount of atoms in the universe, and there always will be a constant amount, was there always a constant amount in the past? Before you answer think about the meaning of the word always.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Well, it's like this Chris, there is an infinite amount of matter for an infinite amount of time and an infinite amount of space. It takes an infinite amount of brain power to grasp it. You have it in you to understand this, stop blocking it with "constant" or finite thoughts.


christopheranton profile image

christopheranton 5 years ago from Gillingham Kent. United Kingdom

Time to be measurable must have a beginning, and anyway there can not be an infinite amount of matter, and a constant amount, because infinity is always growing. Constant stays the same.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Sorry Chris, that is incorrect. Time is not measurable, it doesn't even exist. It's a man made concept. I try to put things in words people can understand.

Yes, there is an infinite amount of matter.

Infinity is not always growing, it already IS.

There is no beginning, there is no end, there is only the infinite now. I know that's a concept that boggles our puny brains. It's like looking at a 3D poster. You look at it and look at it and you can't possibly see it. It may take days or weeks, but one day you look at the poster again and like magic, the depth appears out of nowhere and you can see! You can see 3 dimensions where only 2 existed before.

Maybe it's what you call god. But I can see infinity in everything I look at. It's not a super-natural mythical entity, it is infinitely greater than that.


akirchner profile image

akirchner 5 years ago from Central Oregon

I think if we waste our time here on earth worrying about hell or striving to reach heaven, we've made a mess of the whole thing and missed the dang point don't you think?

What we do today in the here and now should be our heaven or our hell - the good and the bad - and all that goes in between we should savor like the last dregs from our pint of ale and live like there was no tomorrow. Because I just can't seem to meet anyone who has gone to heaven or hell and come back to report on it to me!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Audrey, you have really nailed the meaning of life! Thanks!


ImmacCon 5 years ago

Your grasp on astrophysics is quite lacking. Even somehting as rudimentary as Hawking's Brief History of Time would be helpful to you if you really took the time and care to get into it. Any physicist worth his salt would tell you than time is not a manmade construct and did have a beginning. That has been known since Einstein's work.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

ImmacCon (Is that short for Immaculate Conception?) Weird. Anyway, physicists have argued just as much and just as often as you Satanist Christians over the existence of time. All you really have to do is prove God exists and that will solve every problem you can come up with. So spend your time doing that. I'm sure you must have ample proof somewhere or you wouldn't be stupid enough to believe in all that crap.


Micky Dee profile image

Micky Dee 5 years ago

I think most folks, in America at least, are atheists by their actions - not necessarily bad. Most Americans avoid church and hard pews and repetitive boring speeches. That's why they fall asleep during elections. They prefer the soft couch or recliner and sports to deeper thoughts as to how the country is really run. Most will say they are of one faith or another. God is all powerful. God can count all the hairs on my head. If so - why are more coming out of my nose and ears now?

Christians say America was founded on Christianity and like now - most people were too poor to vote and didn't have a say. Our leaders were intent to prosper financially. They voted. The poor could not. Too many today are disenfranchised and don't have the niceties for the church promenade.

The greatest law given to humanity was/is the Golden Rule. Jesus said THIS law is above all laws. I say then - that Atheists can do God's will - by following THIS law. And many of my atheists friends follow this law because they have kind hearts and they have a built-in gyroscope that governs their activities. Atheists can feel right and wrong.

As the Dali Lama would - I would - also include atheists as my friends. I welcome all of all faiths to join humanity against atrocities that are to great to defeat by ANY one religion.

This world is divided too much. We have to meet at the common ground.

I've answered scathing emails saying what I've just said is a lie. I've been told "I'm lying". My mind is lying to me.

I certainly submit to a benevolent God. If my God that I would worship is not a kind, caring, understanding God, what would be the point?

I certainly will love my neighbor whether there is a benevolent God or not.

I will say this and mean it. Yet - I often will seemingly contradict what I appear to want to be. I will stand up and give evil what evil says it wants. But lies come from evil.

Many people will believe that Jesus performed miracles and rose from the dead. They will believe in the Holy Spirit. They will believe in the "rapture".

Yet!!! They vote for lawyers who have this injustice system by the throat. They vote for lawyers who have the country and the world by the throat. They believe in Beelzebub running the world and God running the world at the same time. They refuse to believe that some lawyers would hold shoddy investigations into the murder of JFK, MLK, 911, etc., etc. when these lawyers have never "served the judiciary system" for 200 years.

Christians of this country and Atheists turn their backs to arms being sold around the world to murderers who rape and kill.

All people- need to unite- and the Golden Rule is that common ground. Love your neighbor as yourself. Do to others as you would have others do to you. If lawyers could understand THIS Golden message - the world could run properly. It would lead to the fulfillment of the prayer that Christians are commanded by Jesus to pray. It's also a prayer for all religions and it's not a bad one for an atheist:

Our Father who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy name, Your will be done, YOUR KINGDOM COME on Earth as it is in heaven..." When we pray this - and Christians are told to pray this, we pray that this world resembles what "a/the" heaven is supposed to be.

Heaven is NOT selling arms around the world like those M-16s that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in East Timor. American Christians, Muslims, Catholics, Atheists, etc. must join against weapons of mass murder being sold to mass murderers.

If any belief does not include the best wishes for all humanity, ie, the Golden Rule - that belief system is false. God bless Atheists! Whether they want it are not!

My heaven will not have streets of gold. Bike tires do not grip streets of gold!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Amen, Brother Mickey Dee! You are the kind of Christian I can believe in.

The Golden Rule is Golden, streets are not.

I believe that man created all of the Gods to explain the complex universe we live in. Being unable to understand things (even to this day), we created imperfect Gods. I don't understand why we needed Gods to explain things. We use objects all the time that we do not understand and we don't create a God to explain a microwave for instance. So why do we create Gods to explain the universe? Just enjoy it and learn the golden rule to live by. It's perfect.


AntonOfTheNorth 5 years ago

Late to the conversation but wanted to see one of your hubs, Austinstar.

I want to recommend a book to you, if you haven't already read it. It's Robert Heinlien's "Job: A Comedy of Justice"

It is billed as science fiction, but more correctly it is speculative fiction. It offers a view of heaven, hell, and creation that follows the judeo-christian, but does things with it that are very entertaining with some really solid arguments about how funny it is. It presents heaven almost exactly as it is written about in the bible, but leaves you with the notion that it would be incredibly unfullfilling.

Similar, though totally different is Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle's work "Inferno", which supposes that the hell described in Dante's Inferno is in fact real. Also very entertaining.

I suggest these as I think you would enjoy them, based on what I read in your hub.

Loved the atheist song.

Now, a dedicated religionist might say that if you don't believe in hell and you're wrong, you're still gonna burn. Belief won't change the truth

That wouldn't be me. Just sayin.

I enjoyed the read. Thanks very much.

cheers


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 5 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Anton, I still think you should join the hub community! You are insightful. I've read Heinlien, but I'm not familiar with that title. I'll look it up. Thanks for the suggestion.

Inferno may be over my head. Have you read Mitchner's "The Source". It takes religion back to the stone age and up to more or less present time.


stace24 2 years ago

You can believe in hell or heaven or not it makes no difference in the reality of them both. Do you really think we as people just appeared on earth with everything in it to sustain life? Just magically there was male and female in perfect harmony with all creatures in their place and they all know what to do to live automatically and how to survive and reproduce. The oceans and the sun are placed with boundaries and the sun at the.perfect distance from earth by chance wit

hout a creator? What it is is man's pride denying they have sin and need of a savior and the easiest way to do that is not believe and hope it goes away. The bible has never been proven wrong. If you don't believe in hell then why don't you sum up some demons and play with tara cards and see if there not real. What happens when we die? You really think we cease to exist? What do you think is behind people like hitler and charles manson. You think there is not evil behind them or the elite of the country....regardless of your thought we are on the verge of the antichrist coming into play and you will see when he makes the world make an alliance with him. I would think long and hard on your thoughts. By the way the biible also say you are spiritually blind if yojr not savec to even see the truth so your comments are evidence to this and how satan blinds you. What makes people even have a coscience of right and wrong? Why is there limitations on us. If nothing is right and wrong then every can do as they please with no reprocussions.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Stace24 - Wow! You really bought into all that fear, didn't you? Just think about eternity for a while.

And I never said anything about ceasing to exist. Just the opposite. Our stardust lives forever.

I would also suggest that you get some training in English grammar and sentence structure, or at least learn to type.

There are always repercussions - even if you do things 'right'.

I suspect Hitler and Manson were/are mentally unlike the majority of us. But when you label a killer as 'evil', you must also label yourself as 'judgemental'. And I do suspect that you are not a god. So, therefore you have no right to judge people or their actions. They are the ones that have to live with their repercussions! If you think they should be put to death for their actions, then YOU become a killer.

And yes, I believe in the ever changing universe/cosmos/eternity. No, we did not just 'magically' appear. We have always been here. We are here now and, we will ALWAYS be here!


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 2 years ago

Except that the Hellfire doctrine is a perverse mendacity that defames God. As a God of justice and love he would never prescribe infinite punishment for a finite crime no matter how wicked: http://bit.ly/17fVMYm

It's RCC mythos, not Christian.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

I'm still trying to understand the notion that humans think they know what their God would or would not do.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Read it more than once, and it convinced me that the people who wrote it were delusional. It also convinced me that the people who believe that nonsense are incapable of understanding the world around them. They just want everything to be handled FOR them and they think they need to be SAVED from themselves by some superstitious magic.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

The first quote is delusional because it is saying that an invisible 'Father' makes the sun rise. Also, the fact that 'prayer' is ineffective, especially to 'enemies' who could care less about your prayers.

The second quote is delusional for promoting "God's chosen ones". "Jehovah freely forgave you" - for what did this imaginary man forgive you for? being born?

Take out all references to 'God, Jehovah, prayer, forgiveness and reward and you are left with some good advice, but it is hardly 'from the heavens'. It's just common sense.


Say Yes To Life profile image

Say Yes To Life 2 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

Regarding loving your enemy - we can see the results of criminal coddling in this country can't we?


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 2 years ago

Based on what evidence do you draw your conclusions?


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 2 years ago

@Say

Why do you believe Christ was speaking of coddling one's enemies?


Say Yes To Life profile image

Say Yes To Life 2 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

Matthew 5:…43"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.…"

Sounds like criminal coddling to me!


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

@JOP - I will delete all quoted text comments unless they are short and to the point, and you add creative and original comments.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 2 years ago

@Say

I get that, but why?


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 2 years ago

You've lost me. How does any of that answer the question I posed to you 9 hours ago?


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Your questions have been asked and answered.


Dion Walker profile image

Dion Walker 2 years ago from Maryland

I would want to die believing in GOD and find out that there is no GOD, rather than believing there is no GOD and when I die find out that there is a GOD.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

@Dion Walker - If that is your choice, by all means, do so.


Che Rogers profile image

Che Rogers 2 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

I think many Atheist become atheist after spending time being indoctrinated by religious nuts who have no idea what they are talking about causing confusion and deception for many different reasons but the main one is money and the second one is fear. Now I can never say I have reached the point where I didn't believe in a creator of all of this but I will say I have reached the point of rejecting modern day religion because it's a mess. The topic of hell is a joke. Why would an unconditional loving God create a place of infinite punishment for finite sins for his own children? An earthly mother wouldn't wish this on her child would that mean her love for her child is greater than God's for his own creation? So there are some things that are taught by modern day religions that don't add up to who they say their god is. I do believe there is a creator to all of what we see around us. I believe it takes more faith to believe all of this happened out of sheer coincidence and I will explain why. If matter cannot move without something putting it into motion then what put all matter into motion like we see today? Many scientist will say it was energy that put everything into motion. Which I wouldn't disagree. I would take it a step further and say this energy had to be intelligent for the sheer fact that it created universal laws for its matter to live by like the laws of gravity, polarity, correspondence, gender, etc. The reason for the laws is evident, to keep chaos from destroying the matter that exists. So this intelligent energy cared enough for its creation to create laws and keep balance and order. Regarding the topic of evil or satan, this only points again to polarity. The absence of light is darkness, the absence of law is chaos, the absence of good is evil. This doesn't mean there is some red tailed horned entity running around the universe trying to get us to do evil. There is the potential for us to tap into that side of our being which is the absence of love or good that makes us act outside of those mindsets. I believe that god isn't some white bearded man far off in the universe somewhere wearing a white robe like many religious nuts believe. I believe when the creator created everything he used itself/himself/herself and multiplied. Not only did it create from itself but it became all things. So technically parts of the creator is in us and all living things in order for it to experience and record and have relationship good or bad with it's creation. This is just my opinion based on studying science, ancient civilizations and archeology. Again it takes too much faith to believe all of this happened out of coincidence and then started to abide by universal laws to keep it from being chaotic and destroying itself. Just something to think about. I don't believe in religion but I do believe that we have two parts to us, physical and spiritual. In order to understand the energy(spirit) that we cannot see physically one must tap into their spiritual self (3rd eye) to understand it. This was being taught by ancient advanced civilizations long before we ever existed. it's where most of the modern religions get their information from but they have twisted it like the game of telephone. By the time you get to the 12th person the entire message is changed from the source. Science and spirituality go hand and hand. They shouldn't be separated like many would have us believe.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Thanks for the lengthy answer, Che, but I believe in ONE simple solution: Infinite matter + Infinite space + Infinite energy = The Infinite Universe.

Matter, space, nor energy has "intelligence". It just exists.

Good and Evil are OPINIONS and JUDGEMENTS. They are not "entities". Don't get all confused with "third eyes", "polarities", "intelligent design" and any other "metaphysical" options.

The universe is all and it is infinite. Once you understand infinity, you understand the universe. And it is a simple equation, not a religious deity.


Che Rogers profile image

Che Rogers 2 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

You still negate the fact that universal laws are in place regardless of infinite matter. If laws are in place something intelligent put that into place. Just adding infinite in front of words doesn't magically erase the fact that these laws govern everything around you. Without gravity you would float off into oblivion. With too much gravity you wouldn't be able to move. Without polarities how can one understand anything. How can you understand what is hot if there is no cold. How can you understand sunshine if you never have rain. These laws are in place for the progress of creation. Not for it to exist without purpose. If that was the case no laws would have been set in place.


Che Rogers profile image

Che Rogers 2 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

And if you want to use math or equations you would know you can't multiply 0 by a number and get anything. So if there was nothing from the beginning how could the earth multiply? Math proves the existence of a creator. 0 x 1 = 0. 0 x 1,000,000,000 = 0.

so how did creation multiply from 0?


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

I'm not using math to multiply anything! Math uses numbers. I am not using numbers in my equation.

Why would anyone want to multiply a number with a zero? That has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Universal "laws" are explained by mankind with limited intelligence. Please look up the definition of "infinity" and then try to understand what it actually means.

We, as humans, only understand what we have been taught to understand and in ways that we have been taught to understand things. The amount of understanding that we possess is less than a grain of sand on a beach! You can't say that there is intelligent design in the universe without some sort of proof of that. There is no proof. The universe is all random and chaotic and is infinitely so.

So, to answer your question - "how did creation multiply from 0?" It didn't! The universe exists now, has always existed and always will.


Che Rogers profile image

Che Rogers 2 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

Never seen someone get so mad over math. Lol

Math is found in every living thing. Geometry is found in every living thing. It was the point I was trying to make. Again in order for creation to multiply it had to start with 1. Creation can't multiply from nothing or 0. This is a simple concept . As is a creator for its creation.

Scientist will tell you they can trace the universe back to one single point by rewinding time and the ages of stars. Its how they got the concept of the big bang. they trace it back to 1. Not zero. Hence the need to show you mathematically how things cant multiply from 0.

And yes there is proof that creation hasn't been around forever and the proof is in its age. It's also found in the fact that it's expanding since it's beginning. This is all found on science not religion.

If you are interested in really knowing the answer to this look up sacred geometry and the seed of life which is found in every living thing. If you are only interested in being angry at the concept of a creator then continue to not seek knowledge outside what you already think you know. I'd love to read up on your sources to see how you got to this conclusion. Truth is truth and I'm not afraid search for it even if it makes me change my paradigm. It's called learning and growing my dear.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

First of all, I don't get mad at anything.

Secondly, you don't seem to be reading and/or understanding what I am saying. That's ok. Your vision of the universe is obviously different from mine. That's ok too.

Thirdly, the most important point I've been trying to make is the physics mantra - matter cannot be created or destroyed - This is a true statement no matter how you phrase it.

So, my "equation" still stands.

Infinite matter + Infinite space + Infinite energy = The Infinite Universe

Everything has always existed and cannot be destroyed. ie: infinite


Che Rogers profile image

Che Rogers 2 years ago from Los Angeles, CA

matter is destroyed it's the spiritual that doesn't die. my body will physically be nonexistent after I die. It is the essence of what made my body alive that is important to understand. many scientist now are beginning to study this aspect that I speak of.

This is the same concept I spoke of early with the universal laws that were put in place after creation took place. the universal law of gravity. You can't see gravity but you can see the affects of it. you can see it's power. But one can never see it's image. This speaks volumes of the purpose and care the creator had for it's creation in order to place laws into place in all things it created. Without gravity you would float off into space and with too much you would be stuck to the planet or your body would be squished. Even inside your body reacts to gravity without it you wouldn't be able to exist.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

No, matter is never destroyed. Your body atoms disperse and become other things. Like ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Part of your body will become dirt or a tree or the air or food for worms, whatever.

But your atomic matter is never destroyed. Only re-arranged.

Gravity is a form of energy - it exists throughout the universe. It has always existed, it was never 'created'. You cannot create something from nothing - not even a God.


Joseph O Polanco profile image

Joseph O Polanco 2 years ago

@Austinstar

Happy Monday! If I may interject, the premise that all matter and energy began to exist 13.70 billion years ago is not a religious declaration nor a theological one. You can find this statement in any contemporary textbook on astrophysics or cosmology. And it is supported by the vast majority of cosmologists today.

The Borde-Vilenkin-Guth Theorem, for instance, proves that any universe, that has, on average, a rate of expansion greater than one ** must ** have a ** finite beginning **. I'm not making this up. Read the paper in full or watch Vilenkin himself invalidate and impugn beginningless universe models like Eternal Inflation, Cyclic Evolution and Static Seed/Emergent Universe on youtube.

As such, Vilenkin had this to say regarding the beginning of the universe, "It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. With the proof now in place, cosmologists can no longer hide behind the possibility of a past-eternal universe. *** There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning ***. (Many Worlds in One [New York: Hill and Wang, 2006], p.176) (Emphasis mine.)

As Theoretical Physicist and Cosmologist Stephen Hawking put it, “the final nail in the coffin of the Steady State theory came with the discovery of the microwave background radiation, in 1965.”

Emphatically, then, the fervent belief that the universe is infinitely old, beginningless, or eternal has no basis in any respected mainstream scientific theories of the universe.

This creates the necessity for a first uncaused-cause. After all, something cannot come from nothing as I've already shared. I've also explained that this first uncaused efficient cause must also, by necessity, be transcendent, beginningless, timeless, spaceless, immaterial, unchanging, omnipotent, personal and good. As it turns out, such is the very definition of All Loving God.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

@Joseph - "the premise that all matter and energy began to exist 13.70 billion years ago is not a religious declaration nor a theological one"

This is not my premise at all. My premise is that matter and energy and space have ALWAYS existed.

"any universe"??? There is only one universe and it is infinite, not finite.

"something cannot come from nothing" - Then where did your God come from?

If you want to imagine a finite universe, you may imagine a "current configuration" (the one we are living in), but there is no way to state definitively that the universe has not existed in previous configurations. In fact, the "Big Bang" may have happened over and over again as theoretical physicists can show by the current configuration expanding AND contracting. There is just no way to prove either the Big Bang theory or the God theory. And not only that, but it doesn't matter one way or the other. Who cares?

@Che - "Athiests are more faith driven" That is a false statement. Atheists are NOT faith driven, they are fact and science driven.

"There is no order in life without purpose" - Also a dreamed up statement, repeated often enough for you to view it as a truth. It is not a truth. Purpose is whatever you want it to be. It is not a "thing", it is a concept. Ephemeral at best.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

@J O Polanco - I have deleted your last four comments and will delete all of your future comments on this hub.

You need to go write your own hub on this subject.


Austinstar profile image

Austinstar 2 years ago from Somewhere in the universe Author

Ok, Che Rogers - You are off of my approved list of commenters also. Repeating yourself over and over doesn't make your point true. Again, my advice is to go write your own hub.

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    Austinstar1,079 Followers
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    Lela earned a B.A. degree in Journalism from Sam Houston University in Huntsville, TX. She has been writing for the online world for years.



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