The 'Battle of Armageddon' Was Never Mentioned in the Bible

Catapulta, Edward Poynter (1868)  This is similar to the catapults used by the Romans.
Catapulta, Edward Poynter (1868) This is similar to the catapults used by the Romans. | Source
Source

Introduction

A great deal of speculation has been written about major events predicted in the Book of Revelation. Inevitably, the result is a misconstrued scenario of the 'end times'.

It may surprise readers to learn that some of the most popular 'end times' topics taught today, do not actually appear in the Scriptures.

For example:

The Antichrist

The Thousand Years Reign of Christ

The Battle of Armageddon

My articles 'The Antichrist Was Never Mentioned in the Bible', and 'Jesus Never Mentioned the Millennium Reign?' explain my view in detail.

There is no doubt we are living in uncertain times; sadly, a world war is within the realm of possibility. Nevertheless, political leaders should not succumb to the promulgators of grossly exaggerated 'end times' theories. The Battle of Armageddon has no bearing on the calamities that may befall our generation.

The purpose of this article is to examine whether the claim is justified that 'the Battle of Armageddon' is an impending, world ending event. I will attempt to explain what John meant by 'Armageddon', and affirm its AD 70 timeline.

The History of Armageddon

Adam Clarke (1760-1832) predicted future 'self-inspired prophets' would continue 'Armageddon' speculation whenever a warmongering dictator appears on the scene.

A Quote from Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

'Armageddon - The original of this word has been variously formed, and variously translated. It is הר־מגדון har-megiddon, "the mount of the assembly;" or חרמה גדהון chormah gedehon, "the destruction of their army;" or it is הר־מגדו har-megiddo, "Mount Megiddo," the valley of which was remarkable for two great slaughters: one of the Israelites, 2 Kings 23:29, the other of the Canaanites, Judges 4:16; Judges 5:19. But Mount Megiddo, that is Carmel, is the place, according to some, where these armies should be collected. But what is the battle of Armageddon? How ridiculous have been the conjectures of men relative to this point! Within the last twenty years this battle has been fought at various places, according to our purblind seers and self-inspired prophets! At one time it was Austerlitz, at another Moscow, at another Leipsic, and now Waterloo! And thus they have gone on, and will go on, confounding and being confounded.'

Predictions continue to this day, the only difference is the greater degree of exaggeration. Some leading authors, preachers, and TV personalities, who insist on a literal interpretation of the Scriptures, now claim John and the prophets described 21st century helicopters and nuclear bombs!

The Battle or the Gathering of Armageddon?

A Quote from raptureready.com

Revelation 16:16 'Armageddon comes from the Hebrew word meaning "the Mount of Megiddo." This ancient fortress is located in northern Israel, across the Plain of Esdraelon from Nazareth. Armageddon will be the gathering place for the final great battle, which bears its name.'

It is important to understand the context of Revelation 16:16 because it is the only occasion Armageddon is mentioned in the New Testament. It is astounding the innumerable sermons, books, and movies inspired by one verse of Scripture.

  • Rev 16-16 KJV And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

John wrote they 'gathered' at Armageddon, the 'battle' of Armageddon is not mentioned at all. Nonetheless, it has not deterred imaginations running wild.

Revelation 16:16 doesn’t say the battle on the great day of the Lord was fought at Armageddon, just that that is where the kings of the earth gathered their troops for the battle. The Mt. Carmel range (the closest mountain to Megiddo) was near to where Titus gathered the Roman armies for the final assault on Jerusalem on the ultimate day of the Lord.

Duncan W McKenzie

The Gathering at Armageddon

Rev 16:1-2 KJV And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

In my opinion, the Armageddon timeline was during the 1st century AD, when the wrath of God was unleashed upon unrepentant Old Covenant Israel. The religious leaders and their misguided flock were the recipients of God's judgement. The first vial of judgement was poured out on those having accepted the mark of the beast. The final outcome was the destruction of the temple, Jerusalem, and the dispersion of the nation.

My article 'The Antichrist Was Never Mentioned in the Bible' explains my view on the beast and his mark.

Source

200,000,000 Army of Horsemen

I agree with Frank Di Mori, the 'Bible Prophecy Man', that the gathering at Armageddon was not to battle, but to commence a campaign against Jerusalem.

  • Rev 9:16-17 KJV And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. 17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

However, I disagree with him that 200,000,000 horsemen from the East will literally gather in the near future.

A Quote from Frank Di Mori the Bible Prophecy Man

'These nations include, Iran which at the present time has an army that numbers 954,000, Afghanistan has an army of 70,000, Pakistan has an army of 619,000 with a reserve of 528,000, Iraq has an army of 273,000, Kazakhstan has an army of 65,000 with a reserve of 237,000, India has an army of 1,414,000 with a reserve force of 1,155,000, and China has any army of 2,255,000 with a reserve force of 800,000. As you can see, if these nations want to attack together they won’t have any problem forming a huge military force of 200,000,000 men.'

http://endtimesresearchministry.com/200-million-man-army/

Seriously!

Frank Di Mori attempts statistically to support his view that a literal 200 million army could be formed by eastern nations, obviously, maths is not his forte. His statement accounts for 8,370,000, apparently the outstanding 191,630,000 men have gone AWOL.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/armies.htm, makes interesting reading on this subject.

Is there any need for an army of 200,000,000 horsemen from China and eastern nations in this technological age? It is logistically unlikely, since there aren't that many horses in the world. Surely, he doesn't believe this army will literally travel and fight on horseback. On a positive note, it would be a good year for the roses.

John described figuratively an overwhelming demonically inspired army!

God's Method of Judgement

I believe the campaign was the Roman/Jewish war of AD 66-AD 70.

The Roman Empire was God's instrument of wrath during the final judgement upon Old Covenant Israel in AD 70. There are numerous examples in the Old Testament where God used neighbouring nations to fulfil His promised judgement on a wicked nation. For example: Isaiah 13.

My article 'The Great and the Terrible Day of the Lord Is History' examines this subject in detail.

Tacitus

Tacitus (AD 56-AD117) outside the Austrian Parliament Building
Tacitus (AD 56-AD117) outside the Austrian Parliament Building | Source

The Army of the Roman Empire

Rev 16:14 KJV For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

A Quote from Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries

World G3625 οἰκουμένη oikoumenē oy-kou-men'-ay Feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication of G1093); land, that is, the (terrene part of the) globe; specifically the Roman empire: - earth, world.

'and of the whole world' According to Strong's translation, the armies of the Roman World/Empire gathered for the battle of that great day of God.

It was not unusual for the Romans to conscript the armies of subjugated nations to fight their wars. On this occasion, the Roman army mainly consisted of the nations surrounding Old Covenant Israel; all had a vested interest in its destruction, hence the extent of the devastation.

A Quote from Josephus 'The Wars of the Jews'

'So Vespasian sent his son Titus [who], came by land into Syria, where he gathered together the Roman forces, with a considerable number of auxiliaries from the kings in that neighborhood'.' Book III, Chapter 1, Paragraph 3.

A Quote from Tacitus 'The Annals & The Histories'

'He (Titus) found in Judaea three legions, the 5th, the 10th, and the 15th, all old troops of Vespasian's. To these he added the 12th from Syria, and some men belonging to the 18th and 3rd, whom he had withdrawn from Alexandria. This force was accompanied by twenty cohorts of allied troops and eight squadrons of cavalry, by the two kings Agrippa and Sohemus, by the auxiliary forces of king Antiochus, by a strong contingent of Arabs, who hated the Jews with the usual hatred of neighbours, and, lastly, by many persons brought from the capital and from Italy by private hopes of securing the yet unengaged affections of the Prince. With this force Titus entered the enemy's territory, preserving strict order on his march, reconnoitring every spot, and always ready to give battle. At last he encamped near Jerusalem.' Book5 (1)

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The Timeline of the Great Tribulation

It is possible to ascertain the 1st century Armageddon timeline from Scripture, since it would be at the close of the 'great tribulation'. Therefore, if we identify the timeline of the 'great tribulation', we will establish when the Armageddon gathering took place.

  • Mat 24:29-30 KJV Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power land great glory.

'Immediately after the tribulation of those days' Most scholars object to the view that the 'tribulation of those days' and Christ's return took place by AD 70, due to the lack of empirical evidence. If the stars were to literally fall from heaven, the earth would not survive the impact. Jesus used prophetic, figurative language commonly spoken by the Old Testament prophets.

For example:

  • Isa 13:10 KJV For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Isaiah used prophetic language to describe the downfall of the Babylonian Empire. This was similar to the language used by Jesus during the Olivet Discourse.

  • Isa 13:17 KJV Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

Isaiah's prophecy was not fulfilled literally; he explained the Lord's method of fulfilment was the invasion of the Medes.

  • Rev 1:9 KJV I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

John and his generation lived during the 'great tribulation' initiated by Caesar Nero. John encouraged the original recipients of The Revelation by aligning himself with them through the dreadful reign of the 'man of sin'.

Jesus described the tribulation about to unfold during His generation's lifetime.

  • Mat 24:20-21 KJV But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

'But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day' If the great tribulation is a 21st century calamity involving the whole world, why would we pray that our flight not be on the sabbath day? It is obvious, the sabbath restrictions applied to Old Covenant Israel, not to the world 2000 years in the future. Jesus warned His generation of impending doom.

'such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be' Some futurists contend that the tribulation during the 1st century foreshadowed a 21st century tribulation. If so, why did Jesus declare there would never be another like it?

  • Luk 21:12 KJV But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

'and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues' Luke wrote that those persecuted would be delivered to the synagogues. If the great tribulation is in the 21st century, will believers be delivered up to the synagogues?

  • Mat 24:34 KJV Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

In Matthew 24, Jesus said all these things would be fulfilled during the lifetime of His generation. Many today insert a 2000 years gap in a vain attempt to negate the impact of the simplicity of Jesus' statement.

The Timeline of the Blood of the Martyrs

  • Rev 16:6 KJV For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

Not only had Old Covenant Israel forsaken the Lord and the Law, the nation was guilty of shedding the blood of the martyrs.

  • Rev 7:14-15 KJV And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

The faithful who paid the ultimate price for their faith during the 'great tribulation', rejoiced in the presence of God.

Rev 17:5-6 KJV And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Who shed the blood of the saints and prophets? It was Jerusalem's religious leaders. Mystery Babylon was not Rome; it was Jerusalem.

  • Mat 23:33-34 KJV Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Jesus rebuked the religious leaders for killing the prophets the Lord had sent.

Mat 23:35-36 KJV That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Jesus warned of impending judgement on all who refused to repent...Luke 11: 50-51.

The Arch of Titus

The arch commemorates Titus' capture and sack of Jerusalem in AD 70.
The arch commemorates Titus' capture and sack of Jerusalem in AD 70. | Source

The Timeline of the Great Day of God Almighty

  • Rev 16:14 KJV For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

A Quote from Duncan W McKenzie ‘The Antichrist and the second Coming: A Preterist Examination’

‘Revelation 16:16 doesn’t say the battle on the great day of the Lord was fought at Armageddon, just that that is where the kings of the earth gathered their troops for the battle. The Mt. Carmel range (the closest mountain to Megiddo) was near to where Titus gathered the Roman armies for the final assault on Jerusalem on the ultimate day of the Lord. Ogden writes the following on this:

Josephus [The Jewish War, 5, 1, 1] tells us that when Titus left Egypt with orders from his father to subdue the Jews that he returned “to Caesarea, having taken a resolution to gather all his other forces together at that place.” Bear in mind that Caesarea was within sight of Mt. Carmel, the mountain of Megiddo, and that those armed forces coming from the northern regions must pass through Megiddo before reaching the appointed place of gathering. Titus stayed in the regions around Caesarea until most of the forces from the north arrived, and then moved on to Jerusalem for the battle of the great day of God Almighty.’ Page 321

  • Zec 14:1-2 KJV Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Titus was about to fulfil Zechariah's prophecy. The utter destruction of the temple and Jerusalem was accompanied by the death of an estimated 1,100,000 Jews and the enslavement of 97,000.

Titus refused the victory wreath, and reportedly said he had not won the victory, but was only the instrument of their God's wrath upon them.

  • Zec 12:11 KJV In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

The great mourning was reminiscent of the mourning for King Josiah, who was killed in battle against King Necho of Egypt, in the valley of Megiddon.

A Quote from Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible

'Zechariah 12:11 As the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon - This was the greatest sorrow, which had fallen on Judah. Josiah was the last hope of its declining kingdom. His sons probably showed already their unlikeness to their father, whereby they precipitated their country’s fall. in Josiah’s death the last gleam of the sunset of Judah faded into night.'

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Conclusion

Josephus described the visible collateral damage, but not the spiritual warfare. However, John also witnessed the war in the unseen world between Christ the King and Satan with the forces of darkness.

'The Day of God Almighty' brought an end to Old Covenant Israel, and the establishment of the New Covenant Age. Jesus defeated all His enemies, it is time those 'in Christ' lived in the victory.

Many appear to be continually swayed by every false prediction of an impending Battle of Armageddon, with its doomsday scenario that is void of scriptural support.

Having examined Armageddon and its timeline, I am convinced the event is history.

What do you think?

Don K Preston

Alexander Gibb

© 2015 Alexander Gibb

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Comments 94 comments

Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

The battle of Ameggdon is the battle of God's Judgments and execising his sovereignty.

That is over his opposers or enemies,

That includes humans as well as Demon forces

or fallen Angels who will be captured and placed in a Jail like condition. or restraint.

This is very soon to come as we are living the book of Revelations now.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

All I have to ask is if the preterist view is correct then how do you explain us being here (still living in sin) over a thousand years after the end of the tribulation? When did Jesus judge all people living and dead? Just curious.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

The time line you are going by is off, and you have to remember God's years are not human years, it says Adam died in a day. A day to us is 24 hours

A day for him is a thousand as example remember Adam lived 930 years as posted. Before a thousand.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

The great tribulation is the Judgement period, but not a long time. It starts when religion is destroyed by the UN.

Time to change and repent will be to late. NOW IS THE TIME TO LEARN THE TRUTH AND APPLY.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

You can use a library on the many subjects of the bible , Jworg is a tool for Hebrew and Greek translations also in many languages , including sign language. The truth is open and free .


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

You can use a library on the many subjects of the bible , Jworg is a tool for Hebrew and Greek translations also in many languages , including sign language. The truth is open and free .


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

Fair enough thank you for your reply. :-)


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

firework23

Thank you for your comment.

Here is a brief summary:

The great tribulation, resurrection, and judgement, were prophesied in Daniel 12 regarding the end of Old Covenant Israel, the timeline of fulfilment was described by Jesus during His Olivet discourse in Matthew 24. 

Jesus predicted these things (including the destruction of the temple) would take place during the lifetime of His generation. By AD 70 all was fulfilled. 

The 'last days' were the last days of Old Covenant Israel, not the end of time or the end of the world. 

Jesus the Son of God, came to reconcile fallen 'man' by dying on the cross for our sin. At His return in judgement in AD 70, He fulfilled all God's promises to Old Covenant Israel and thereby established the present New Covenant Age.

Those who trust in Christ are cleansed from sin through His blood and now reconciled to the Father. At physical death believers go immediately into the presence of God.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

I see. Thank you also for sharing. I have read the entire bible once before and am reading another one now. I will have to consider these thoughts as I read through it again. God bless you as well as the other poster who responded to my inquiry.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Thank you may Jehovah be with you on your journey to the true paradise, the only way there is the true map of his word.

Col 1:10 so as to walk worthily of Jehovah in order to please him fully as you go on bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God

The key to it all is the word accurate. No other Keys work.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss andTales

Quote from comment 1 'This is very soon to come as we are living the book of Revelations now.'

In the last chapter of The Revelation, Jesus emphasised His impending return five times.

 Rev 22:6  And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

Rev 22:7  Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:10  And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Rev 22:12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Rev 22:20  He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Did He get it wrong? After all, that was 2000 years ago.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

No Jesus was very aware of covering more then one Generation of time , he covered the fall of Jerusalem in 70ce, but notice, also he covers us as well,

1Th 5:3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.

What stands today representing the subject of True PEACE and Security

United Nations - definition of United Nations by The Free Dictionary

www.thefreedictionary.com › United+Na...

Mobile-friendly - United Nations. Abbr. UN. An international organization composed of most of the countries of the world. It was founded in 1945 to promote peace, security, and economic development.

They are on the subject of Peace and Security.

The point is Jesus covered two time lines.

He said he would be with us until the conclusion of things , he is.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss and tales

I have used the Scriptures to support my view. How do you support your comment from Scripture?

Where in Scripture does it mention the UN?

Jesus said His generation would not pass until all was fulfilled...Matthew 24:34.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

The Bible says that a “wild beast” with “ten horns” will attack the harlot. When we study the book of Revelation, we learn that this wild beast means the United Nations (UN). “The ten horns” mean all the governments that now support this “scarlet-colored wild beast.” (Revelation 17:3, 5, 11, 12) How destructive will this attack be? The nations that belong to the UN will take away all the harlot’s wealth, reveal how bad and immoral she really is, devour her, and “completely burn her.” So false religion will be destroyed forever.—Read Revelation 17:16.

This is the start of the great tribulation.

A time of Judging sheep and goats.

No human change will make be possible at this time.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

That is when the great Tribulation starts the truth will be revealed and stand alone. No one will dispute it.

That it is the truth , the truth there will be no opportunity to convert or change lanes as example. Because this will be judging time.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss andTales

Could you give me the source of your information. I would like to read it.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Sure you can go to the library one found on Jworg.

Very useful.also publications on many subjects , just put

The name in the library search and your subject will come up.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss andTales

Thank you, I searched the site but unable to find a reference to the UN.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

You are welcome , but to the subject you are looking for , first go to Jworg 2, then subtitle publications, 3 ,then library, then write United Nations in the library seach box , 360 ref, to subject,

The first listed say Jehovah reveals shortly what must take place. Hope you can get the answers you search for.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss andTales

In response to a couple of your comments:

Quote from your comment 2 'The time line you are going by is off, and you have to remember God's years are not human years, it says Adam died in a day.'

2Pe 3:8-9 KJV But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Peter did not write a mathematical formula for calculating God's calendar. The Lord spoke in terms that 'man' could understand, otherwise any communication between God and 'man' would be pointless.

He did not say a day is a thousand years, he said it is 'as' a thousand years.

Peter used the Greek word 'chilioi' which is not a literal 1000. If he meant a literal 1000 he would have written 'chilias'.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss andTales

Quote from your comment 1 'This is very soon to come as we are living the book of Revelations now.'

In the last chapter of the Revelation, the imminent return of Jesus was mentioned five times.

Rev 22:6 KJV And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

Rev 22:7 KJV Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:12 KJV And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Rev 22:20 KJV He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Rev 22:10 KJV And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Can you explain why John was instructed not to seal the prophecy for the time was at hand?

The prophecy would have no immediate impact on 1st century believers if God had 2000 years in mind. It is obvious the sense of urgency was due its imminent fulfilment.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Man’s situation does not compare with that of the Creator, who does not reside within our solar system and who is not affected by its various cycles and orbits. Of God, who is from time indefinite to time indefinite, the psalmist says: “For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch during the night.” (Ps 90:2, 4) Correspondingly, the apostle Peter writes that “one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.” (2Pe 3:8) For man, a 1,000-year period represents some 365,242 individual time units of day and night, but to the Creator it can be just one unbroken time period in which he begins the carrying out of some purposeful activity and brings it on to its successful conclusion, much as a man begins a task in the morning and concludes it by the day’s end.

This would be correct way of understanding this.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss andTales

I found the JW article that proposes the Beast is the United Nations, I haven't heard this view before.

The article begins:

Jehovah Reveals What “Must Shortly Take Place” “A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves ”

'the things that must shortly take place' The article ignores the fact that the Revelation was written 2000 years ago, and continues to explain the important part Britain has in its fulfilment.

The article claims that Britain was a part of the old Roman Empire. However, northern Britain was not part of the Roman Empire. The Romans failed to subdue what is called Scotland, (I am a Scot). Consequently, Hadrian built a wall between England and Scotland to define the border of the Roman Empire.

Personally, I no longer hold a futurist view.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

I can garentee that you are misunderstanding what is said . I will look over the material as research and get back with you human history do not tell all things accurate, but God's word is a garantee to be correct.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

True of the war , but you are relating to a later history, History shows Rome splits up

Crisis began with the assassination of Emperor Alexander Severus at the hands of his own troops in 235AD, initiating a fifty-year period in which there were at least 26 claimants to the title of Emperor, mostly prominent Roman armygenerals, assuming imperial power over all or part of the Empire. Twenty-six men were officially accepted by the Roman Senate as emperor during this period, and thus became legitimate emperors.

By 268 AD, the Empire had split into three competing states: the Gallic Empire, including the Roman provinces of Gaul, Britannia and (briefly) Hispania; the Palmyrene Empire, including the eastern provinces of Syria Palaestina and Aegyptus; and the Italian-centered and independent Roman Empire, proper, between them. Later, Aurelian(270–75) reunited the empire; the Crisis ended with the ascension and reforms of Diocletian in 284.

14 emperor of the Roman Empire built the wall in, 117- 138 AD.

The year 383 marks the end of Roman rule in northern and western Britain. In that year, Roman troops were withdrawn from those regions of Britain for the last time.

This explains the name Scoti, who lived on British land.

So to simply say the largest and most world power was Rome who dominated more land and era in it long periods of Rulership.

It is even recognize as a beast in Rev.

Scotland is not.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss andTales

Could you specifically respond to my point:

Question: You said earlier Peter said a day is 1000 years, do you still believe that regardless of my statement showing he said a day is like (as) a thousand years?


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

You are correct, with the verse, the last statement I post to you was saying how God's years are as yesterday, the key word as yesterday, His timing is not equivalent to our own. the real point is he still uses the word a thousand years in many other quotes.

Byington

2Pe 3:8But do not you ignore this, dear friends, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

King James Version

Ps 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

As, example Adam was told in that day he would die if he ate of fruit that was not his

New World Translation

Ge 2:17But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the( day )you eat from it you will certainly die.”Ge 5:5 So all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years, and then he died.

He died within in the( day) of a thousand years, not over.

This is point I was trying to explain.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss andTales

Thank you.

The point I am making is Peter did not write the numerical 1000, he was speaking figuratively.

'Chilioi' or 'Chilias'

Peter wrote the Greek word ‘chilioi’, a day as a thousand (chilioi) years’. He did not write ‘a day is a thousand (chilias) years'. So what is the difference?



Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionary

‘G5507 ÷ßëéïé chilioi khil'-ee-oy Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand: - thousand.’

‘G5505 ÷éëéÜò chilias khil-ee-as' From G5507; one thousand (“chiliad”): - thousand.’

'Chilioi’ is unique in its plurality, its etymology is not from any known numeric value, and is unique in its usage of the word ‘thousand’. The adjective ‘chilioi’ is descriptive and therefore more suitable for figurative speech and described an indefinite period.

'Chilias' is literally 1000.

Do you see the difference?


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Ok I will reseach this as well, The Greek and Hebrew terms. Thank you for sharing

your infomation.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Ok I pronounced (a )when the verse says as a thousand years, difference is I error , because the scriptures says as you , which you are correct of the singular and plural form. Thank you for your insight .


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss andTales

Thank you.

One final thought:

Adam did die the day he ate the fruit.

Gen 2:17 KJV But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

When Adam ate the fruit he did not physically die that day. How could that be? God said he would die and God cannot lie.

Gen 3:7 KJV And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

‘one day is with the Lord as a thousand years’ Some scholars claim that Adam began to die physically that day by applying the often misquoted ‘one day is with the Lord as a thousand years’...2 Peter 3:8. He physically died 930 years later. This explanation is flawed. Apparently, God only kept half His promise. On the day Adam and Eve ate the fruit they immediately received the knowledge of good and evil, but seemingly it was hundreds of years later before Adam died!

The death Adam experienced that day was 'spiritual death' not physical death; God cast him out of the Garden of Eden and from His presence. Adam's spiritual relationship with God ended that day.

The purpose of Christ's death on the cross was to pay the penalty for sin and end spiritual death, thereby, enabling mankind to be restored to fellowship with the Father.

Physical death was never the enemy or the issue, because it does not separate the believer from the Father. On the contrary, at physical death the believer is ushered immediately into the presence of God.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Search, While I will admit the error of as, on my part, but there is an error you need to consider, that is cross , please use the greek and Hebrew meaning . Next the king James Bible has dropped the Authors name, Psalms 83:18 as Jehovah, I have written the hub on the subject, An Author of a book should be given proper recognition for his written work, taking the name away is a violation of ones rights of identity.

Surly King James will have to answer for this before the Heavenly Judge of the universe.

Next it is better to Glorify and return his honor that people mistreat.

He is who hold our future rather we live or die.

Man has no Authority then to continue the moral breakdowns, the separation of races

and the tearing down of the earth.

We are to seek the truth and allow him to educate us for the future of a New Heavens and New Earth

2Pe 3:13But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.

Now that we have experienced the deplorable Goverment of Satan's

We will be educated to enter the Government

of Jesus as God's chosen king earthwide.

Just as there was one arch of Noah and survivors there is also the the Arch of truth

to be given to future citizens.

While we as imperfect humans make errors

God Almighty does not.

We can be sure as you have written he does not lie.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss and Tales

I admire your willingness to admit a mistake. This is a very rare quality.

If Scripture is provided to prove I'm in error, I trust I will be willing to change my view.

I have been a Christian for 46 years. Twelve years ago I was challenged to re-examine some doctrines that I accepted without question. The result was a major shift, in particular, on prophecy and 'the end times'. This change excludes me from mainstream Christianity.

I am now dubious of personal interpretation produced by mans' imagination. Now I attempt to allow Scripture to interpret Scripture, hence the reason for constantly posting Scripture in my Hubs.

Speak when the Bible speaks and be silent when the Bible is silent.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

I so appreciate your quality of truth, and I am happy you are a real bible reader of intent of getting to the truth. That can be done we just have to allow Jehovah spirit to help us understand it his way, not from a human standpoint, because his thoughts are very genius at a 100% and more , and ours very small but productive.

As Mentioned you will see where King James removes the personal name of God

replacing his name with LORD, confusing people, when Jesus , is also addressed as Lord.

King James Version

Ac 2:34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand

New World Translation

Ac 2:34For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand

The point here KJV omitted Jehovah's name

Found over 7000 times in Hebrew and Greek

Scriptures.

Now there is, a new version with the name totally dropped. Sad.

Also with the cross is two pieces of wood , Jesus died on a tree which is one piece .

The cross is, a pagan symbol used long ago in Babylon the worship of Tamaz.

The edic of Milan establish laws where Christian beliefs would mix with the many pagan beliefs like sun worship was mix with

Son worship of God.

The library I gave you could explain it better

Jworg.

Thank you I look forward to more discussions with you .


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

My years are close to yours so we can talk.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss and Tales

I read your interesting Hub on Bible translations.

I believe the original Scriptures are the inspired, infallible, Word Of God.

In my opinion, none of the translations are 100% accurate. However, I respect the scholars who have dedicated their lives to translating Hebrew and Greek into English that we might understand the Word of God.

Personally, I use the King James Version most, because it is considered a good translation despite its faults.

Thanks to 'e-sword' software, I have free access to 24 Bible versions. I base my understanding on comparing versions and dependence on the guidance of the Holy Spirit who is my inner witness.

Students should be aware of discrepancy between translations and interpretations.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Thanks for reading my hub, I agree that the Hebrew and Greek of scrolls is important.

We can get more out of scriptures if we allow him to help

We will never learn it all in a life time.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss and Tales

Acts 2:34 KJV For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Acts 2:34 (New World Translation) For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand

I agree that 'LORD' in the KJV Old Testament should be Jehovah, numerous translations have corrected this.

Quote ‘As Mentioned you will see where King James removes the personal name of God replacing his name with LORD, confusing people, when Jesus, is also addressed as Lord.’

Is that an accurate statement? I don’t think so.

‘The LORD said unto my Lord’ On both occasions Peter, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, used the Greek ‘kurios’ in this verse. Therefore, the translators were correct in translating ‘Lord’ twice and not ‘Jehovah’. The KJV translators did not remove 'Jehovah. If the translators of the New World Translation take the liberty of changing the original Greek text, how can we be confident the same hasn’t happened elsewhere.

Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries

‘Lord G2962 κύριος kurios koo'-ree-os

From κῦρος kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, that is, (as noun) controller; by implication Mr. (as a respectful title): - God, Lord, master, Sir.’

Quote ‘Found over 7000 times in Hebrew and Greek’ Again I don’t think so.

Could you show me where Jehovah’s name is mentioned in the New Testament Greek?


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Search I am always happy to talk and share scriptures with you , but I do not just post answers off the top of my head, I do a full research to make sure the answer is right.

Will get back to you with all the infomation

You ask for.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures

“Jehovah.” Heb., יהוה (YHWH or JHVH)

From App 1A and 1C it is evident that the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew characters (יהוה) was used in both the Hebrew text and the Greek Septuagint. Therefore, whether Jesus and his disciples read the Scriptures in either Hebrew or Greek, they would come across the divine name. In the synagogue at Nazareth, when Jesus rose and accepted the book of Isaiah and read Isa 61:1, 2 where the Tetragrammaton occurs twice, he pronounced the divine name. This was in accordance with his determination to make Jehovah’s name known as can be seen from his prayer to his Father: “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. . . . I have made your name known to them and will make it known.”—Joh 17:6, 26.

There is evidence that Jesus’ disciples used the Tetragrammaton in their writings. In his work De viris inlustribus [Concerning Illustrious Men], chapter III, Jerome, in the fourth century, wrote the following: “Matthew, who is also Levi, and who from a publican came to be an apostle, first of all composed a Gospel of Christ in Judaea in the Hebrew language and characters for the benefit of those of the circumcision who had believed. Who translated it after that in Greek is not sufficiently ascertained. Moreover, the Hebrew itself is

Matthew made more than a hundred quotations from the inspired Hebrew Scriptures. Where these quotations included the divine name he would have been obliged faithfully to include the Tetragrammaton in his Hebrew Gospel account. When the Gospel of Matthew was translated into Greek, the Tetragrammaton was left untranslated within the Greek text according to the practice of that time.

Not only Matthew but all the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures quoted verses from the Hebrew text or from the Septuagint where the divine name appears. For example, in Peter’s speech in Ac 3:22(Ac 3:22 In fact, Moses said: ‘Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to whatever he tells you)

A quotation is made from De 18:15(De 18:15Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to him.

where the Tetragrammaton appears in a papyrus fragment of the Septuagint dated to the first century B.C.E. (See App 1C §1.) As a follower of Christ, Peter used God’s name, Jehovah. When Peter’s speech was put on record the Tetragrammaton was here used according to the practice during the first century B.C.E. and the first century C.E.

Sometime during the second or third century C.E. the scribes removed the Tetragrammaton from both the Septuagint and the Christian Greek Scriptures and replaced it with Kyʹri·os, “Lord” or The·osʹ, “God.”

But King James of the 1600 reconized its importance of leaving it in 4 times.

King James Version

Ps 83:18That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

King James Version

Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

And two other locations in the KJV.

So you would have to say if you read the original scrolls they would have Jehovah’s name intact.

Because Jesus, Mathew and Peter quoted from the old Hebrew text with Jehovah’s name or letters in place.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

Not to be a stick in the mud but how can His name be Jehovah when there are no J's or V's in the old Hebrew language? It was originally YHWH of which scholars believe was pronounced Yahweh. They also called Him Yah. The Jewish people took His name out later because they deemed it too holy to speak. Food for thought.


searchinsany profile image

searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

firework23

Thank you for your contribution.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

You are welcome....I just couldn't help it. The conversation back and forth you have had with each other I have been following and refrained for a bit because I do not want to stir things unnecessarily but could withold myself no longer..lol. best to you both :-) you seem like kind people.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

In regards to fireworks comment he speaks truth but is missing some important facts, example many times we communicate with people here on HP , we get names wrong even spell them wrong

But the direction is still one direction not many answering, there is no other that claims his personal name. Even Jesus.

As a toddler tries to say his parents name

But sounds differ the parents know the child is talking to them.

Maybe true we do not have the exact pronounce sound, but what we do have we use to direct our attention to our Heavenly Father as Jesus does.

Also notice that the world of humans agree as well. Why because he said to

Ex 3:15Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.

Tetragrammaton .

Notice all who say his name!rather they say it right or wrong.

Languages and Dialects Containing the Divine Name in the Main Text of the Christian Greek Scriptures

Language or Dialect: Divine Name

Aneityum: Ihova

Arawak: Jehovah

Awabakal: Yehóa

Bangi: Yawe

Batak (Toba): Jahowa

Benga: Jěhova

Bolia: Yawe

Bube: Yehovah

Bullom So: Jehovah

Chácobo: Jahué

Cherokee: Yihowa

Chin (Hakha): Zahova

Chippewa: Jehovah

Choctaw: Chihowa

Chuukese: Jiowa

Croatian: Jehova

Dakota: Jehowa

Dobu: Ieoba

Douala: Yehowa

Dutch: Jehovah

Efate (North): Yehova

Efik: Jehovah

English: Jehovah

Éwé: Yehowa

Fang: Jehôva

Fijian: Jiova

French: IHVH, yhwh

Ga: Iehowa

German: Jehovah; Jehova

Gibario (dialect of Kerewo): Iehova

Grebo: Jehova

Hawaiian: Iehova

Hebrew: יהוה

Hindustani: Yihováh

Hiri Motu: Iehova

Ho-Chunk (Winnebago): Jehowa

Ila: Yaave

Iliku (dialect of Lusengo): Yawe

Indonesian: YAHWEH

Kala Lagaw Ya: Iehovan

Kalanga: Yehova; Yahwe

Kalenjin: Jehovah

Kerewo: Iehova

Kiluba: Yehova

Kipsigis: Jehoba

Kiribati: Iehova

Kisonge: Yehowa

Korean: 여호와

Kosraean: Jeova

Kuanua: Ieova

Laotian: Yehowa

Lele: Jehova

Lewo: Yehova

Lingala: Yawe

Logo: Yehova

Lomongo: Yawe; Yova

Lonwolwol: Jehovah

Lugbara: Yehova

Luimbi: Yehova

Luna: Yeoba

Lunda: Yehova

Luo: Yawe

Luvale: Yehova

Malagasy: Jehovah; Iehôvah

Malo: Iova

Marquesan: Iehova

Marshallese: Jeova

Maskelynes: Iova

Mentawai: Jehoba

Meriam: Iehoua

Misima-Paneati: Iehova

Mizo: Jehovan; Jihova’n

Mohawk: Yehovah

Mortlockese: Jioua

Motu: Iehova

Mpongwe (dialect of Myene): Jehova

Muskogee: Cehofv

Myene: Yeôva

Naga, Angami: Jihova

Naga, Konyak: Jihova

Naga, Lotha: Jihova

Naga, Mao: Jihova

Naga, Northern Rengma: Jihova

Naga, Sangtam: Jihova

Nandi: Jehova

Narrinyeri: Jehovah

Nauruan: Jehova

Navajo: Jîho’vah

Ndau: Jehova

Nembe: Jehovah

Nengone (or, Maré): Iehova

Ngando: Yawe

Ntomba: Yawe

Nukuoro: Jehova

Polish: Jehowa

Portuguese: Iáhve

Rarotongan: Jehova; Iehova

Rerep: Iova

Rotuman: Jihova

Sakao: Ihova; Iehova

Samoan: Ieova

Seneca: Ya’wĕn

Sengele: Yawe

Sesotho: Yehofa

Sie: Iehōva

Spanish: Jehová; Yahvé; YHWH; Yahweh

Sranantongo: Jehova

Sukuma: Yahuwa; Jakwe

Tahitian: Iehova

Teke-Eboo: Yawe

Temne: Yehṓfa; Yehofa

Thai: Yahowa

Toaripi: Jehova; Iehova

Tonga: Jehova

Tongan: Jihova; Sihova

Tshiluba: Yehowa

Tswana: Jehofa; Yehova; Yehofa

Umbundu: Yehova

Uripiv: Iova

Wampanoag: Jehovah

Welsh: Iehofah

Xhosa: Yehova

Zande: Yekova

Zulu: Jehova; YAHWE

(In addition to those on this list, a number of languages and dialects use a form of the divine name in footnotes or in explanatory text.)

Over 120 languages


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Think of every language here and their

generations including ours locally.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

The 'getting things wrong' I can agree with because you just did that with me by assuming I was male when, in fact, I am female. This gave me a chuckle...thanks for that. All I know is when He guides me I feel 'off' when saying His name as Jehovah. It is not something I control but rather a nudge telling me it's off. Because of this I actually researched the origin of Jehovah and found out a) Hebrew has no J or V and b) it originated in the middle ages. I, myself, do have a problem with using the wrong name because it is like those totally mispronouncing my own name to a point where my identity within it is no longer present. That may not matter to you because you justify it by stating how children, young in language, speak but to me it truly matters. You are welcome to your views but I choose to agree to disagree. Peace to you.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Thank you for understanding my comment , I am happy you explain your point, but is that the reason people wanted to drop his name because of superstition , because they could not pronounce the exact sound.

So to act like it doesn't exist at all is worse ,

Like writing a book here on HP and people do get your work of a good quality no reconized credit because they can not pronounce your name so they say lady, mam

Wrote the hub. That does not fall right with many as well they would rather utter what is present , then not utter at all, even Jesus said pray to the Father , and Glorify his name

Hollowed be thy name means to Glorify it.

Ignoring it complete does not. Thank you.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

In my guidance through God Yahweh IS what sits right. I believe that name to be the true name of God/Elohim. Because of how I have been guided I choose to believe by such. I do not expect others to. I was merely making a comment about the original Hebrew written (not picture) language lacking the letters J and V thus making the name Jehovah an impossible name in Hebrew.

If you research YHWH you will come across explanations of why it disappeared from the Torah. When you research use google scholar to weed out most of the unresearched opinions. As I've mentioned previously...in time they deemed the name too holy to speak. As you know Hebrew has no written vowels. So pronunciation was lost. Jesus also is not a true name again because of the J. If He came in His Father's name then His name would have to share YHWH. Perhaps Yehwah or Yahwah or something. Not sure myself but it isn't Jesus. I am unsure of how much this matters to God. Knowing His love probably not much if it deteriorates any relations among the children of God. Hence why I state that it is clearly my choice to follow a more accurate name. I do not push nor expect others to agree. Hence I agree to disagree with you friend. God bless you.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

I apologize...I forgot to mention that I agree that it is worse to not say His name at all. Especially considering how much it is stressed in the Torah by God Himself to speak His name. But I have to say people are very good at not making sense especially when influenced by outside sources....hence superstitions.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Yes I understand you, But why is it you reject Jesus personally? The years have passed for his Messiah to appear , like you are expecting a guest for dinner , and you hear the knock at the door at the right time, but you look and hear his voice and say not what I expected do not let him in, better send the dogs out to devour this man for comming, then he is attacked and his heavenly Father heals his son, and he goes to another house that welcomes him and is his New Brothers, and his heavenly Father blesses him and his Brothers for a Goverment to Rule.

A question, where is your temple before Jesus arrived, 70ce was the last of your Jerusalem where YHWH Jehovah temple stood,

Why are there any priest who can offer animal sacrifice was always a requirement,

So the Messiah was to replace this provision

Rejecting him caused sins not to be forgiven.

I read up on the Torah, why does it have magic spells in it readings. When Jehovah forbid the practice to his people. The Torah has mixed reading, of God and man made doctrines . Very confusing.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

This is what I am talking about , and could you explain, this, the torah was not the right word my error, but this is the correct words,Condemned by the Bible. The Bible is singularly different from the writings of other ancient people in that its references to uncanny powers and magical arts are all condemnatory. Nowhere does it recommend “white” magic to cancel spells of “black” magic. Rather, it urges faith, prayer, and trust in Jehovah as the protection against unseen “wicked spirit forces” and all their related activities, including magical influences. (Eph 6:11-18) In the Psalms the righteous pray for deliverance from evil; Jesus taught us to pray for deliverance “from the wicked one.”

(Mt 6:13) The Talmud and the Koran, on the other hand, give way to superstition and fear. The Apocryphal book of Tobit contains absurd passages of magic-working sorcery.—Tobit 6:5, 8, 9, 19; 8:2, 3; 11:8-15; 12:3; see APOCRYPHA (Tobit).

That is what I am trying to understand about this

Subject.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

The Old Testament (including the Torah) is merely a pre-cursor to Christ. He is everywhere within it. This can be seen if one is given spiritual eyes to see it. The entire Bible is about the Son of God. The condemning is showing that in God's purity He cannot accept us as we are (animal sacrifices included). If we went to Him as we were in our filthy nature prior to our ultimate atonement in Christ then His pure light could not mix with our impurities and we would be destroyed. He loves us so He sent His Son to be the sin sacrifice. His blood washes us clean so we are able to be with Them now. All of scripture is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training. Christ is with me please don't assume otherwise...I am saddened by the thought. Peace to you.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

I am happy to hear you say that Jesus is with you

Because there are so many denominations that believe different things. That is the very reason I ask questions to know what is your truth about the subject. Because there are believing Jews like the first century followers of Jesus, but the others

Rejected him and by doing so they blaspheme against YHWH, Jehovah, also you recognize Jesus

and the use of J in his name, Jehovah is higher in power and Authority we are saved in connection to his name.

Joe 2:32And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved; For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, just as Jehovah has said, The survivors whom Jehovah calls.”

Ro 10:13For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”

If you drop the name in translation this is not possible because you will not be able to apply this important help.

If you refuse to use the name again how can you be helped by him not calling on him as scriptures point out,

Satan has mastered his blocks to keep us away from the true God Jehovah , but we have the power not to let him.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

Again, I would like to make it clear: ALL scripture is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training. Leaving the Old Testament out goes against what is stated here which was stated in the New Testament. Christ said He didn't come to do away with the Law only to fulfil it. What did He fulfill doing what He did? Any sin atoning practices such as animal sacrifices (but repenting was not done away with). He also said not one tittle would be removed from the Law until all was fulfilled and that the Law is no longer written on stones but in our hearts. If you think the Two Great Commandments don't encompass all the Ten Commandments and then some you would be mistaken. The only difference now is instead of us working for God's favor we receive the Holy Spirit and He guides us toward good works. This way no one can brag because it comes from God not us. Faith without works is dead. You shall know them by their fruit. What is fruit? How they live, their behaviors including works. Wow...sorry about just going on but I was compelled to write all of this. God be with you.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

I don't know what Bible you use but I learned from one that is out of print. The name in that one was NOT Jehovah...it was Yahweh. Even in the scripture you quote. I use the name Jesus currently until I discover what His true name is. I love God and do not wish to do Him wrong in any way. Whether it be His name, my obedience or how I treat my fellow man regardless of faith or behavior. I do not hate people I only hate sin (behavior) in myself as well as others.

I also read somewhere, and tend to agree, that the Jewish people changed Jesus's name because they did not want His name being shared with the Father's name. I am willing to bet that name they used instead was Yeshua.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

I don't eat unclean meat and try to honor the feasts like today being the Day of Atonement but I am wet behind the ears to such practices. I have been guided by God to do such but DO NOT expect other people to do such. The name thing is the same: how I feel and what I've been guided toward may not be the same for others. Unless God tells me others must follow I will not say such. You are free to follow God in whatever name or practice you choose. Please do not take offense because I see slightly differently. It is not worth destroying peace with brothers and sisters in Christ. May God abundantly bless you.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Very Interesting to know and I truly share your feelings about God and not wishing to hurt his feelings I am sure he is happy to know that about you. And he has provided help to us in making a closer bond of love through his son Jesus or Yeshua.

His love for you and many others have been paved

to soon make the earth a global paradise with subjects from sea to sea, as you have already noticed the many that call on his name YHWH/ Jehovah!

Thank you for your kind and clear answers.


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searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Enjoying this exchange.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Firework23 I appreciated your answers and I believe you can research more on things you are not sure of as stated. You are welcome to do any reseach , look at the many languages including yours on Jworg, it is free always world wide.

Thank you for your replies.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

I also enjoyed our exchange and will continue to research as guided. Thank you for the tip (jworg). I wish only the best for both of you and am sure that your passion toward respecting God is equally appreciatedby Him. Till next time friends ;-) may all that is needed for you be given by our pure and loving God.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Yes ! Thank you .


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searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

firework23

Thank you for your participation. Sorry I have been 'awol', I have been writing a response to Kiss and Tales 'Jehovah' request. Watch this space...

Kiss and Tales

Can you explain in your own words for me 'The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures'. I am having difficulty taking it in.

My question was 'Could you show me where Jehovah’s name is mentioned in the New Testament Greek?'


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

To search I did answer your question , but I will gladly repeat the situation, of his name being dropped be apostate Jews,

When apostate Christians made copies of the Christian Greek Scriptures, they evidently took Jehovah’s personal name out of the text and substituted Kyʹri·os, the Greek word for “Lord.” The Hebrew Scriptures did not fare any better. No longer reading God’s name aloud, apostate Jewish scribes replaced the divine name in their Scriptures with ʼAdho·naiʹ more than 130 times. The influential translation of the Bible into Latin that was completed by Jerome in 405 C.E. and that came to be called the Vulgate similarly omitted the personal name of God.

As fireworks said of superstition of not saying his name.

But the truth is his name was read in the temple

by Jesus from the original scrolls,

Where you see LORD is where his personal name should be, simple copies made without the Divine name is even being done today, the New Translations are dropping it completely A New King James drops it.

The question you are asking me where is it at

I can tell you where it is suppose to be.

And you should ask them where , why and how did they take it upon themselves to drop the divine of the Heaveanly Father Jehovah, his personal name,

Ex 3:15 Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.

We are the 21 century generation and it is still his name , no matter how people try to hide it.

Ac 2:34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand

King James Version

Ac 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

This is the example of what oppostate Jews did.

But the there are many artifacts that have been found with his name intact.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

But since you asked where I can provide the answer even though Apostates tried to conceal his name.

Notice . At Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6, the divine name is embedded in the word “Hallelujah.” This comes from a Hebrew expression that literally means “Praise Jah.” “Jah” is a contraction of the name Jehovah. Many names used in the Christian Greek Scriptures were derived from the divine name. In fact, reference works explain that Jesus’ own name means “Jehovah Is Salvation.”

This is proof.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

Searchinsany-you are so very welcome and I most certainly will keep an eye on your hub :-)


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

I found this on an ancient language hub, I did not see the author's name otherwise I would have cited it:

The letter J is, as you mentioned, relatively recent, and originated as a variant of the letter I. Why that happens is a little complicated, and requires unpacking some assumptions in your question.

In the original languages (Latin, Greek, Hebrew) which provide us with the names Jesus, Joseph, Justinian, etc., the sound which we write as J was pronounced as the English letter Y. (Just to make things confusing for English speakers, the phonetic symbol for this sound is [j].) In Latin, the letter for this was I/i, in Greek it was Ι/ι (iota), and in Hebrew it was י (yod). Thus, the Greek spelling for "Jesus" was Ιησους, pronounced something like "Yeh-SOOS", and the Latin likewise was Iesus.

Subsequently, in the Latin alphabet the letter J was developed as a variant of I, and this distinction was later used to distinguish the consonantal "y" sound [j] from the vocalic "i" sound [i]. However, at about the same time there was a sound change in many of the languages of Western Europe, such that the "y" sound changed into a "j" sound ([dʒ], or sometimes [ʒ]). So we have it that in English, the letter J now represents a consonant [dʒ] which is not obviously similar to the vowel [i], despite the fact that they descend from the same letter and the same sound. (English also has many [dʒ] sounds spelled with J which come from native Germanic roots.)

You can see this history worked out differently in the spelling systems of German and many of the Slavic languages of Eastern Europe, where the letter J spells the "y" sound [j], and the letter Y, if used at all, is primarily used as a vowel.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

As for the V this is from (ancient-hebrew.org):

Ancient Name:WawPictograph:PegMeanings:Add, Secure, HookSound:W, ow, uw

History & Reconstruction

The original pictograph used in the Early Semitic script is a , a picture of a tent peg. The tent pegs were made of wood and may have been Y-shaped to prevent the rope from slipping off. 

The Modern Hebrew name for this letter is vav, a word meaning "peg" or "hook." This letter is used as a consonant with a "v" sound and as a vowel with a "ow" and "uw" sound. The consonantal and vowel pronunciations of each of the consonant/vowel letters of the Ancient Hebrew language, which include the aleph,, hey, and yud, were closely related. For instance, the letterhey is "h" and "eh" and the pronunciations of the letter yudis "y" and "iy." Following this pattern, it is probable that the original pronunciation of the letter  was "w" as the vowel sounds associated with this letter are "ow" and "uw." In addition, in the Modern Arabic language, this letter is pronounced with a "w." Therefore, the original name of this letter would have been wawinstead of vav, as it is in Modern Hebrew.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Well to direct your attention and prayers we need

To continue comuication with him, even though his name may be pronounced, example there are many doctors with names we can not easily pronouce but they are there to save lifes, we would not say in an emergency I can not pronounce this doctor's name so I will call him man, doctor is ok, but still a title.,

You will have to know his name for treatment.

And payments , man , doctor will not work.

Our worship , our blessings, our future is related to YHWH, / Jehovah, which is his name forever.

Man has tampered with this fact to decieve and lead many away from him , because they want to hide the fact tgey killed his son.

Jesus name means YHWH/ Jehovah is Salvation.

There is no other who has done this for us in a complete way,

Man is limited and dies in a shortlife span.

How can a simple man cover us all for the future. He can not.

Only God Jehovah and his choice to save us can. He is eteral and watch over all the generations in time. So let us not get crossed up about how his nane sounds but show him that we recognize him

No matter what humans with the help of satan has done.

We can praise him and thank him even by the words Jah!


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

I didn't paste those to cause upset...merely to back up my previous claim about J and V. I am not one to throw things out there without some way of backing up where my understanding came from. I agree that the Jews (after Christ's death and resurrection) changed His name to something that does not connect to the Father's name. I am aware we have different views and made peace with that, hopefully. I just hate leaving statements out there like what I made without showing why I feel that way. I apologize for stirring things up with those posts. I just hope you can see why I choose YHWH as opposed to YHVH or Jehovah.

I pray peace rests on you while you receive this post friend.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Firework you will live by your belief and your own convictions. We all live by them, My point is to share accurate knowledge that may lead you to be more sure of the future hope of the New Earth.

Thank you again for your replies.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

I have to comment because you mention sharing 'accurate' knowledge. How have you shown me in any way that those studying ancient languages is wrong. I here assumptions of their honesty in character but nothing to back it up. I am fine with you believing what you choose to (it is what we as Christains are taught to do) but to assume that my view is innacurate without showing me why it is in a tangible way (aka without opinion being involved) is just improper. Prove what those studying ancient language claim is false through an actual and tangible method and I will be happy to change course. Please be more cautious of language that shows fleshly judgement. Peace again to you.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

I am trying to understand your question, and language of ancient meanings, what is it that you want to hear that I am missing. Please write the questions and I will be happy to

to answer your request.

Right now I am confused of what you are saying.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

Is English your first language or not? If not then I will try to convey messages in a better way for you to understand (I am not saying this as an insult-I just understand how hard it can be understanding a language that is not the main one you've spoken throughout your life). Perhaps I misunderstand your intentions for this reason. If so, again, I apologize. Peace to you.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Could you list your questions regardles of what language I know and speak, and I will answer you in truth.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

There are no questions other than do you speak another language as a first language...if you do then that would explain any misunderstandings we might have. The only other question I have is what would make your understanding 'accurate' when I see no tangible proof that it is anything more than opinion. I gave you sources from people who study ancient language for a living. What proof do you have thst they are wrong about J and V being new in the Hebrew alphabet? That's it. Give me actual proof without opinion please.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Depends on the subject , because there is a broad list we could cover, the language we are talking in is good enough , but so far the Hebrews and Greek is also not foreign to my reach. So when you say YHWH that is understood as Jehovah to me, since we know Jesus name and you and others accept that with a J It makes no since not to accept his Father with J as well. JESUS MEANS Jehovah is Salvation.

So what I have a problem with if his name was established in the old testement , and Hebrew writings to Moses, why would your forefathers

Drop his name, when Jesus and others read the scrolls with the Tetragrammaton.

Why would people just remove the Tetragrammaton , just let it stay where the original scroll would show it.

You see even if you disagree with the sound

Why remove the Whole letters as YHWH ?

They still did wrong here.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

I do have a problem with the name Jesus as stated earlier. I also already mentioned YHWH being removed but it was removed after Christ's time so He would have read the name.

I agree that YHWH should not have been removed. Also I am quite tired of this back and forth over unchanging views. Truly there is much more going on in my life currently so I am losing energy in keeping up with this. I send much love your way and continually wish you peace. I see you as a friend and would like you to know that. Thank you for the stimulating conversation. Take care.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

firework you are intitled no argument and back and forth, my last comment was because of your last .

We have a different view. And God is not directly not allowing each their own view, we as humans should respect that about him. Thanks.


firework23 14 months ago from U.S.A.

Searchinsany- I will do what I can to continue following here but, as I've said, my life is becoming full at the moment and my energy to keep up here has diminished. God bless you.


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searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss and Tales

fireworks23

I was about to suggest that a conclusion should be drawn. Personally, I find long discussions can be a strain and unrewarding. I have been studying the subject and will post soon.


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searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss and Tales

I have been studying the name ‘Jehovah’ as you suggested. While doing so, I used the New World Translation, to give it a ‘test drive’. I am not a Hebrew and Greek scholar, nor an apologist. This is my attempt to understand this controversial subject.

A Quote from A W Pink’s Gleanings In Exodus (6)

‘The Divine-titles are a most important subject of study for they are inseparably connected with a sound interpretation of the Scriptures. Elohim and Jehovah are not employed loosely on the pages of Holy Writ. Each has a definite significance, and the distinction is carefully preserved. Elohim (God) is the name, which speaks of the Creator and Governor of His creatures. Jehovah (the Lord) is His title as connected with His people by covenant relationship. It is this, which explains the verses now before us. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were acquainted with the Jehovistic title, but they had no experimental acquaintance with all that it stood for. God has entered into a "covenant" with them, but, as Hebrews 11:13 tells us, "These all died in faith, not having received the promises". But now the time had drawn nigh when the Lord was about to fulfil His covenant engagement and Israel would witness the faithfulness, the power, and the deliverance which His covenant-name implied.’

The Hebrew name ‘Jehovah’ means ‘the self-Existent’ or ‘eternal’. 'Jehovah the Lord' is God’s Covenantal name given to the Patriarchs and Old Covenant Israel. The King James translators used ‘THE LORD’ in capitals instead of YHWH. (Strong’s H3068)

I do not believe the KJV translators will be judged before God for their action as you suggest. The translators had a difficult task translating the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures into English. Many suffered martyrdom that we might have access to the Word of God today. I consider the objection to the KJV is a straw man argument. ‘Jehovah’ has been included in numerous English translations since then.

The Hebrew name ‘Elohim’ means God the ‘supreme God’ over His creation. (Strong’s H430)

The Hebrew name ‘Adonai’ means God ‘My Lord’, which is a proper name of God. Latterly, the Jews used this name instead of ‘YHWH’ out of reverence for that sacred covenantal name, and fear of committing blasphemy. The King James translators used ‘The Lord’ in lower case. (Strong’s H136)

The Greek ‘Kurios’ means the Lord, God, Master. The translators of Hebrew into the Greek Septuagint translation used ‘Kurios’ when translating the Hebrew ‘Adonai’. The New Testament writers who were inspired by the Holy Spirit also used ‘Kurios’. (Strong’s G2962)


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searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss and Tales

The NWT

2Ti 4:14 KJV+ Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord (Kurios) reward him according to his works:

2 Timothy 4: 14 NWT Alexander the coppersmith did me a great deal of harm. Jehovah* will repay him according to his deeds.+ .

2Ti 4:17-18 KJV+ Notwithstanding the Lord (Kurios) stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. (18) And the Lord (Kurios) shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

2 Timothy 4: 17-18 NWT But the Lord stood near me and infused power into me, so that through me the preaching might be fully accomplished and all the nations might hear it;+ and I was rescued from the lion’s mouth.+ 18 The Lord will rescue me from every wicked work and will save me for his heavenly Kingdom.+ To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

Where is the consistency in the translation of these verses? Paul used 'Kurios’. The NWT translated ‘Jehovah’ on one occasion but not the other two! ‘Kurios' is constantly used as an epithet of the Lord Jesus Christ and confirms His Divinity.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Well search do you understand what the scriptures is saying , the subject of scriptures , as I was asking Firework , the dropping of names , and the Tetragrammaton of the divine name happen after Jesus death, why did they drop his Tetragrammaton Letters? That is not right, but the New Translations we use replaces his name where it should be in Tetragrammaton. That is my biggest concern, you are questioning repairs done after oppostate tampering. Again the source of the problems lies with who took away.

YHWH , should still be seen in it original form but dropped, the Author 's name of the Most High God .

So I really am not hung up on the scriptures that is not that important to the name of Jehovah, or even YHWH,

That is president over all the scriptures you may mention, while I have no problem answering your request you have ignored the subjects I mentioned to you , one is the cross, the other is King James translations.

I do not think it is fair to answer all yours and you ignore what I mention.


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searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss and Tales

Comparison: the New World Translation / King James Version

1Pe 3:15 KJV But sanctify the Lord (Kurios) God (Theos) in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

1 Peter 3:15 NWT But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper+ and deep respect.+

The NWT changed ‘The Lord God’ to ‘the Christ as Lord’, yet ‘Christ’ is not mentioned in the verse; also, ‘God’ is removed. The context of the chapter is about Christ, but why did the translators change the text? Perhaps it was to conceal Peter’s emphasis on Jesus being ‘the Lord God’.

2Pe 2:9 KJV The Lord (Kurios) knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2 Peter 2:9 NWT So, then, Jehovah* knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial,+ but to reserve unrighteous people to be destroyed* on the day of judgment,+

The NWT translated ‘Kurios’ to Hebrew ‘Jehovah’. There is no apparent justification for changing what the Holy Spirit inspired. It has been claimed that where ‘Jehovah’ appears in a similar verse, in the Hebrew Old Testament, translators can take this liberty. I don’t think the Holy Spirit needs a proofreader.

2Pe 2:11 KJV Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord (Kurios).

2 Peter 2:11 NWT whereas angels, although they are greater in strength and power, do not bring against them an accusation in abusive terms, out of respect for*Jehovah.*

The NWT changed ‘the Lord’ to ‘Jehovah’, it is apparent from 2 Peter 2:20, Peter was expounding Christ.

2Pe 3:9 KJV The Lord (Kurios) is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9 NWT Jehovah* is not slow concerning his promise,+ as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.+

It is evident from 2 Peter 3:4 that Peter was responding to scoffers who asked where is the promise of the Lord Jesus Christ’s return. Peter replied ‘The Lord’ is not slack concerning His promise. The NWT changed The Lord (Kurios) to ‘Jehovah’!


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Search Jehovah name is replaced where apostate Jews remove his name. The problems starts there. Again where ever the Tetragrammaton of Jehovah's name should be that is where it is replaced. And again the word

Lord was replacing Jehovah’s name.by people who removed Tetragrammaton, even confusing people , of Jesus, or Jehovah.

Why do you not see these errors but insist there is errors now , no ! First you use KJV and do not see

His bias ways of his religion in his translations

Then you are judging the translation that is correcting the damage.

I am happy with what I know and learn , and I am

Convinced there is no other truth.

I gave you the Site to do research and all your answers are there reseach that is accountible before Jehovah and written under his spirit.

Again You need to look at more then one translation even the translations before KJV and

You will see the difference, sinse the Jews killed Jesus they had in control the scrolls , they after his death made copies changing the name to Lord , your concern again is what they did, now you centuries later say why did you change things

No it is put back.Under Jehovah’s spirit .

I will not change that fact because it is true

The fact that firwork also admitted his name was

Dropped because they as Jews refuse to say his

Name, because they say it was to holy , and became superstitious, really their concious was eating them because they killed Gods son and would not admit it after evidence and they still try

To stick to this story. SAD , because all things have continued on time and replaced.

And many are not going to continue to see a Newer promise land . The same stubborn ways

They always betrayed leaving Eygpt to the old promise land.

Again God Jehovah does not change people do.

So we will not turn this into arguments I take my leave , you have a greater tool and resourses I gave you in the library please use it , it is helpful

And can explain the many changes , why .you can

Ask by writing as well . Thank you search.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Search one more thought as proof,

Non-Biblical Hebrew documents, such as the so-called Lachish Letters, show the name was used in regular correspondence in Palestine during the latter part of the seventh century B.C.E.

These exist showing no superstition before christs death.

Also consider the disciples quoted from the old testement saying the name , and Tetragrammaton

In place.

De 18:15 YHWH /Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to him.

Notice what Peter quotes from Hebrew (King James Version

De 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

But later translations drop the Tetragrammaton

Of his name to LORD.

NoticeKing James Version

Ac 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

King James copies his translation from oppostate

Copies.

Yet he still leaves God’s name in 4 times.

King James Version

Ps 83:18That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

King James Version

Ex 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Isa 12:2Look! God is my salvation. I will trust and feel no dread; For Jah Jehovah is my strength and my might, And he has become my salvation.”

King James Version

Isa 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:

He does admit and acknowledge the name ,

But he drops the Tetragrammaton throughout the rest of scriptures.

At lease he admits some truth , when some will not admit at all.

I leave you in peace with these examples and thoughts .thanks again.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

The point is Peter quoting this scripture could not avoid saying the Tetragrammaton of his name .

So what you read in KJV was a drop of the Tetragrammaton.


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

The scripture that peter quotes from is found in De 18:15 Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to him.

Ac 3:22 In fact, Moses said: ‘Jehovah your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me. You must listen to whatever he tells you.

This what it should say

But King James drops the Tetragrammaton using LORD.

Needed to make this more clearer.


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searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss and Tales

Who is the prophet Moses spoke of?


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Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Joh 1:45 Philip found Na·thanʹa·el and said to him: “We have found the one of whom Moses, in the Law, and the Prophets wrote: Jesus, the son of Joseph, from Nazʹa·reth.”


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searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss and Tales

Act 3:22-23 KJV For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. (23) And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Acts 3:22-23 NWT In fact, Moses said: ‘Jehovah* your God will raise up for you from among your brothers a prophet like me.+ You must listen to whatever he tells you.+ 23 Indeed, anyone*who does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.’+


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searchinsany 14 months ago from UK Author

Kiss and Tales

Comparison Cont’d: the New World Translation / the King James Version

Jonah 2:9 KJV But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.

Jonah 2:9 NWT But as for me, with the voice of thanksgiving I will sacrifice to you. What I have vowed, I will pay.+Salvation is from Jehovah.”+

Both translations basically agree Salvation is of Jehovah. Now read the following closely:

Act 2:20-21 KJV The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord (Kurios) come: (21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord (Kurios) shall be saved.

Acts 2:20-21 NWT The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and illustrious day of Jehovah* comes. 21 And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah* will be saved.”’+

Peter on the Day of Pentecost, having been filled with the Holy Spirit, preached as the Spirit gave him utterance. His sermon was all about Christ. Peter preached the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, ‘whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved’.

Salvation is of the Lord Jesus Christ! ‘Kurios’, translated from ‘Adonai’ in Hebrew, is confirmation of the divinity of Christ The Lord.

Act 4:10-12 KJV Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. (11) This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. (12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 4:10-12 NWT let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that in the name of Jesus Christ the Naz·a·rene′,+ whom you executed on a stake+ but whom God raised up from the dead,+ by means of him this man stands here healthy in front of you. 11 This is ‘the stone that was treated by you builders as of no account that has become the chief cornerstone.’*+ 12 Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name+ under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”+

‘there is no other name+ under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”+’…NWT. How could any name be higher than the name of Jehovah? Peter said, ‘there is no salvation in anyone else’…WNT. This is scriptural evidence of Christ’s divinity.

Eph 2:20 KJV And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Ephesians 2:20 NWT and you have been built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets,+ while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone.

Peter preached in Acts 4:11 ‘Jesus Christ himself is the foundation cornerstone’…NWT, and Paul taught the same to the Ephesians.

Php 2:9-11 KJV Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: (10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; (11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 2:9-11 NWT For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position+ and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name,+ 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground+— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord+ to the glory of God the Father.

Only Divinity (not an angel) can claim to have a name above every name. Is this blasphemy? No, it was Jehovah who gave Him that name.

Rev 19:16 KJV And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 19:16 NWT On his outer garment, yes, on his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.+

I could have copied a website that opposes the JW doctrine, but at your request I studied ‘Jehovah’ from the Scriptures. I used the King James Version, Young’s literal Translation, and the New World Translation. My conclusion is that the NWT is not better than the other versions I normally refer to when studying.

The Scriptures contain God’s great plan of redemption, it would be a great pity to miss that message by focusing on the subjects you raise in these posts.

My Hub ‘Did Jesus Claim to be God?’ may be of further interest.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/The-Trinit...


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Yes KJV changed or dropped Tetragrammaton, the NWT

Returns his name.

The point is it is back where it should be,

Also as you was asking where Jehovah name in Greek was it is true of the same cases as copies were made his name was dropped by devious oppostates.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 14 months ago

Well search if you had in your possessions the original work of scrolls there would be no discrepancy, as I showed you how could peter read and quote moses words using the Tetragrammaton , then when after the Deciples are long gone there is no Tetragrammaton. The copies have been deleting important truth.

, So as example you have a written hub

Into a book, some one comes a century later and read your book , but decides to change things around, they drop your name, they even drop some words you use to prove it is you.

Then they make many copies and people buy millions , but you do not get the credit, because they stole your Identity as the Author.

The point is this has, also happen to Jehovah.

We do not want to support the work of satan.

So we glorify and make his name known as Jesus said.

Joh 17:26 I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”

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