The Bible And Science

Many people believe the bible to be simply a story. A little book that has been made up and no longer needs to be read. Why do people need to read it? Are we more educated? Do we need to read a book that was made up years and years ago?

What is interesting, at least to me, is the fact that the bible contains some very interesting scientific facts. Facts that were written over 1,000 years before they were discovered by scientists. There are over 1,000 scientific facts in the bible, but this hub is only going to write about a few.

1) The bible and the immune system of babies. In Genesis 17:12 the bible tells us that boys should be circumcised on the eight day. Medical Science has found that on the eight day, after a child is born, is the time when coagulation of the blood has reached it's peak. Medical Science has also found that the eight day after a child has been born, is the time when the immune system is also at it's peak.

2) The bible declares that the blood is the source of life. Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood. Until recent years doctors used to try to cure patients by using the practice of letting them "bleed" from time to time. when they used this practice, their patients usually died. Science has found that blood carries oxygen, water, nourishment to every cell in the body. Blood also has antibodies. These antibodies can destroy pretty much any infection that enters the body.

3) The bible told us in Job 26:7 that the earth hangs on nothing, It was not until 1650 that science understood that the earth was hanging alone in space.

4) The bible told us the earth was round. Isaiah 40:22 It is He that sits upon the circle of the earth. Circle in Hebrew is round not flat. It was about 2000 years later when the earth was actually found, not to be flat.

5) The bible told us that the air has mass In the book of Job 28:25 there is a weight for the wind. It wasn't until the 16th century that science discovered that air ( gravity) has weight.

6) The bible told us that light can be parted. please look in the book of Job 38:24. Sir Isaac Newton studied light and discovered that light can be parted into seven colors, then combined again to make light white.

8) The bible and hygiene. Leviticus 15:13 we are given specific instructions to wash our hands and keep ourselves clean, wash our clothes, and bathe our flesh in running water. Before doctors were aware of germs they would go from patient to patient without washing their hands. In those cases, most of the patients in hospitals usually died. It wasn't until germs were discovered by microscopes and doctors in hospitals began to wash their hands, that patients recovery rates increased dramatically.

9) The bible and the flood of Noah. About 85% of the rock surface around the world is made up of sedimentary rock. This indicates that at some time in the past, the world was covered with water.

10) The bible and the law of quarantine. The bible has taught us the importance of people who are very ill being in quarantine. Leviticus 13:46 All the days where the plague shall be in him, he shall be defiled; he is unclean, and he shall dwell alone. Without camp shall his habitation be. During the Black Plague in the 14th Century patients who were sick or dying were in the same home, and rooms as their families. This plague spread so much in the 14th Century that millions of people died.

.

Archeology Proves the Bible True. Please watch the video below.

As for archeology, many cities have been found whose names where in the bible. Such as the city of Dan. The more archeology works the more it uncovers, cities and parts of cities whose names were written about in the bible. It is amazing because the names of these cities have their names written on them, and archeologists find the exact same name written on the ruins of the cities they find. They also find, within the cities stone tombs with peoples names on them. People who had died in the same city, which was written about in the bible.

The picture to the left is the remains of the city of Dan. The city of Dan was written about in the bible, but was only discovered recently. it is still being worked on. The reason it interests me is that Dan was my father's name. So, I think it is pretty cool, they found the city of Dan. Waiting to find out more about that city. Also am wondering what will they find next.

What else will we know find that is also in the bible?

Note

The material for this hub came from the book Scientific Facts in the Bible. written by Ray Comfort

More by this Author


Comments 184 comments

Porshadoxus profile image

Porshadoxus 3 years ago from the straight and narrow way

Lots of good points here. Many people try to pit the Bible against science, not realizing that the Bible is full of useful science.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Porshadoxus Maybe they would understand more if they read and understood more about the bible.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Ugh...ray comfort. Even Christian apologists won't go near that kook. He is now resorted to prank calling atheist shows - and getting his rear trounced in debates. I suggest doing some actual studying and not turning to comfort for credible source materials


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland, thanks for letting me know. I will check that out.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland, please let me know which scientific fact is not true, and which bible scripture is wrong. I would appreciate that.


faythef profile image

faythef 3 years ago from USA

It doesn't really matter what Ray Comfort says..Its what the bible say..And this article is pretty much what the bible says.

Thank You Michele Travis. this is a great article..voting up.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you faythef , I have looked up some of the things that Ray Comfort has done. None of them are in this hub. All of the things in this hub, do come from the bible.


sherrituck profile image

sherrituck 3 years ago from Virginia

The Bible has many truths for us. Aside from science, we are also warned against charging excessive amounts of interest on the money that we lend. We are also warned against taking advantage of the poor. These lessons beg for our attention today.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

sherrituck you are very correct on that point. Wow, how many sinners are doing that??? It is kind of interesting, did you know that both Lincoln and Kennedy were assassinated because of banks. It is kind of complicated to explain. But, it is true. Banks were behind both assassinations.


Felipe717 profile image

Felipe717 3 years ago from Philadelphia, PA

I've listened to Ray Comfort a couple of times and find him to be very good and informative. Showing how the Bible is full of scientific facts only helps to strengthen my faith.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you very much Felipe717. I also believe in the truth of the bible. Even in the first few words of the bible. "Let there be light"

What happened after the big bang?

A lot of light.

God bless you


Jackie Lynnley profile image

Jackie Lynnley 3 years ago from The Beautiful South

Sounds like an interesting book. I love books and guides of the bible to perk up my interest and bring questions I have never considered. Great report.


lifegate profile image

lifegate 3 years ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

Hi Michele,

It's amazing. The Bible is simply amazing and your hub is exactly on target. Ray Comfort is a very informed individual and follows the Scriptures. Be that as it may, the Bible is an incredible book and those that don't know what the Bible teaches always seem to make the most noise. Thanks for staying on target!

By the way you can check out Ray Comfort at www.thewayofthemaster.com.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Jackie Lynnley thanks for the comment. They have a website. www.raycomfort.com You can probably find more information there.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you lifegate. The bible is so true and thank you for the website. I appreciate it very much.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 3 years ago from Southern California

Michele

I think that this subject is one of the areas where we disagree.

Thanks for putting them aside to read my gang hub.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Than you also ib.


Mhatter99 profile image

Mhatter99 3 years ago from San Francisco

Thank you for this. I have studied the Bible a lot. What gets me in trouble is I see the Bible not only as religious work, but an illustration of the human condition.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 3 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

A sincere, devoted Christian will always feel that they have an obligation to reach out to an atheist, an agnostic, in fact to any non-believer, if they count their own salvation through Christ to be precious.


Johan Smulders profile image

Johan Smulders 3 years ago from East London, South Africa

Keep going - a good article.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Mh, your comment is very true. The bible is an illustration of the human condition. Right now it is not a very good one. Not everyone is included. But, a good number of humans are.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Perspycacious You are correct. You comment is wonderful. Thank you so much.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you Johan Smulders, I am going to try.


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 3 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

You laid this out very well. I spent a moment looking up the references. Very cool. I like to think of those who wrote the words so long ago. How did they have the courage to say such things? Faith!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Ericdierker Faith, that is a wonderful thing! The people who followed Jesus gave their lives for faith.

Thank you so much for your comment. Your comment is wonderful!!


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

1) Which is more likely? That God magically transmitted the message that baby boys should not be circumcised before eight days. Or, that it was learned the hard way that whacking off the ends of the penises of boys younger than eight days causes them to bleed to death. Again there is nothing here that a TSIBAGH could not have discovered by trial and error. Nonetheless, it is sobering to contemplate how many babies they must have had to kill before the eight-day time limit finally dawned on them, assuming the claim is true?

Furthermore, assuming the claim is true, what about the fact that the blood-clotting systems in different newborns would be expected to mature at different rates? What about those newborns whose clotting factors had not reached the proper concentrations by day eight? Presumably they were just another accepted casualty of the penis trimming business.

More to the point, I can find no support for this eight-day optimal prothrombin level in the medical literature. This claim only appears on some apologetic websites and appears to originate from an apologetic book written by one apologetic doctor. According to a reliable medical source (See here.), "The newborn coagulation system matures to adult concentrations and functions over 6 months..." and "prothrombin levels lag behind adult concentrations by 20% into childhood..." If prothrombin concentration is such a big deal, why not wait until these babies had reached adulthood at which time the clotting system would be fully mature and they would have the added benefit of deciding for themselves whether they wanted their penis carved or not?

2) Even a TSIBAGH, after observing numerous animals die as a consequence of losing substantial amounts of blood, should have been able to make the obvious connection that blood is somehow related to the maintenance of life. The animal is wounded, the blood drains out, and the animal dies. Therefore, blood is somehow involved in keeping animals alive. Again, there is nothing indicative of supernaturally transmitted wisdom here.

Just for the record, blood is not the sole �source� of life. Blood is just one of a number of body fluids that are essential for life. Others include: lymphatic fluid, cerebrospinal fluid, synovial fluid, and urine. They are all necessary for survival.

If the Bible authors were such hotshot anatomists, why didn�t they have a clue about the function of the brain? They always associated thought processes and emotions with the heart (See here.) and the kidneys (See here.), and never associated any metal processes with the brain. There is not a single instance in the Bible where it talks about the heart pumping blood or having anything to do with blood. Nor is there any mention of the brain being the seat of consciousness or thought. In fact, the Bible never mentions the brain at all. Why would a God who supposedly gave them the lowdown on the �source of life� keep them in the dark about the true functions of such vital organs as the heart and brain? Sounds suspiciously like these stories were written by a bunch of TSIBAGH�s to me.

3) It is no secret that the Bible often contradicts itself. In this case, the notion that the earth hangs on nothing is contradicted by other verses. For example, 1 Chron. 16:30 �...the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.� Psa. 93:1 �...the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.� Psa. 96:10 �...the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved:� Psa. 104:5 �[Who] laid the foundations of the earth, [that] it should not be removed for ever.� Job. 26:11 "The pillars of heaven tremble..." 2 Sam. 22:8 "...the foundations of heaven moved..." Rather than hanging on nothing, these verses depict the earth and heavens as being firmly fixed on some kind of solid foundation or pillars.

Of course, we now know the author of Job was wrong when he said the earth hangs on nothing. It �hangs� on the gravitational fields

of the sun, moon, and other planets in its vicinity. It is, of course, this attraction that keeps the earth in orbit around the sun. Not only did

the author of Job not know that the earth revolved around the sun (or rotated on its axis for that matter), he did not know anything about

gravitation fields because they are invisible and God apparently neglected to tell him about them. He surmised the earth hung on nothing

because, when he looked at the "dome of heaven" there appeared to be nothing that attached the earth to it. Again, his observations were

consistent with what a TSIBAGH would be expected to have dreamed up.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland

2 Sam. 22:8 "...the foundations of heaven moved..." Rather than hanging on nothing, - The universe does move, the earth circle the sun.

Blood is not the only thing you need to live, but if you lose it quickly you die at once. As for kidneys ( urine ) you can have a transplant. Blood helps transport lymphatic fluid, cerebrospinal fluid, synovial fluid.

1 Chronicles. 16:30 Read all of 1 Chronicles God is being asked not to move the earth.

2 Sam. 22:8- read all of that verse it is an earthquake


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

gravitation fields because they are invisible, that is why they look like they hang on nothing.

I only put a few facts in this hub. Maybe there should have been a lot more.

Sorry this is the second reply, I hit the post comment to quickly.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

4) The earth is a sphere, not a flat circle like a Frisby.�

The Hebrew word translated as �circle� in this verse is �chuwg.� The word is used only three times in the Old Testament and is translated in three different verses as �circle,� �circuit,� and �compass.� �Chuwg� does not connote a spherical shape. In the case of Isa. 40:22, it describes the earth as being a flat disk. If the author of this verse had wanted to describe the earth as a sphere, he would be expected to have used the word �duwr� which is translated as �ball� in Isa. 22:18. The Hebrews had a word that would have correctly described the earth as a sphere. The author of Isaiah didn�t use it in Isa. 40:22, but he did use it in Isa. 22:18 where he was describing a spherical object. Instead, he used a word that was understood to mean a flat round disk. The author of Isaiah simply got it wrong. No divine insight (and certainly no scientific insight) is evident with this verse.

The irony is that people who believed the earth is flat had no trouble finding Bible verses to support their worldview as well. Consider the following verses:

Isaiah 11:12

� And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.�

Revelation 7:1

�And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth. holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.�

(A spherical earth does not have corners. Its surface is continuous.)

Job 38:13

�That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?�

Jeremiah 16:19

�O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.�

Daniel 4:11

�The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ends of all the earth:�

(A spherical earth does not have ends. It is continuous. And, in order to see a tall tree from everywhere on earth, the earth would have to be flat. Not to mention a tree so tall it touches heaven.)

Matthew 4:8

�Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; �

(The only way to see all the kingdoms of the earth from a mountain would be if the earth is flat.)

Belief in a flat earth based on biblical teachings has persisted to recent times. The most recent champion of the movement, Charles Johnson, died in 2001 (See here.) It just goes to show that people will go to any lengths to promote their particular interpretation of the Bible and that they can find "unequivocal" biblical support for virtually any interpretation they adopt, no matter how goofy it might be.

The fact Columbus used Bible quotes to cajole Queen Isabella into funding his sailing adventure is irrelevant to this discussion. It was general knowledge among the enlightened citizenry that the earth was shaped like a sphere long before Columbus was born. Pythagoras taught that the earth was a sphere in the 6th century BC. Aristotle presented a number of lines of evidence for a spherical earth in 330 BC. The circumference of the earth was quite accurately determined by Eratosthenes in 240 BC. Ptolemy made significant contributions to the concept of a spherical earth in the 2nd century. And most popular encyclopedias described a spherical earth by the 4th and 5th centuries. Columbus did not need to misread the Bible to learn the earth was spheroid. All he had to do was assimilate the common knowledge of the time.

Regarding Psa. 103:12, this passage is most readily understood in terms of a flat earth on which the east (the place where the sun begins its journey across the dome of the sky) and the west (where the sun goes to rest at night) were thought to be separated from one another by a great distance. The Hebrew word used for east in this verse is "mizrach." The first definition given by Strong's Lexicon for this word is the "place of sunrise." Similarly, the word for west is "ma'arab" which has as its primary meaning, the "place of setting." These words are commonly used in the Bible to denote a specific locality ,i.e., the east (a place where the sun rises) and the west (a place where the sun sets). According to the ancient Hebrews, these points on the compass were not infinitely separated from each other. However, they were widely separated due to their positioning at opposing edges of the flat earth. Mr. Pyles' contention that Psa. 103:12 refers to an infinite separation between us and our transgressions is not a doctrinal requirement of this verse. The vast distance between the place where the sun rises and where it sets would most likely have provided more than enough separation for theological purposes. Be that as it may, considering the worldview of the ancient Hebrews, only someone engaged in desperation hermeneutics would attempt to construe this verse as being indicative of a spherical earth.

In discussing one his favorite biblical topics, the blowing of the winds, Mr. Pyles calls attention to the fact that Solomon only mentions the winds blowing north and south in a circuit. He contends that this makes sense from a scientific standpoint since �North and south are not infinitely separated as east and west�� and since, once a wind blowing north crosses the north pole, it starts blowing south. (At least I think that is the point he is trying to get across.) But what he fails to mention is the fact that the Bible also contains verses that that speak of �the four winds� that blow from all directions of the compass. According to the KJV Concordance at the Blue Letter Bible website, the Bible makes reference to the four winds in nine different verses. The biblical authors seem to have had a particular fascination with the east wind which is specifically mentioned in a number of verses, e.g., Jer. 18:17, Ezek. 27:26, Psa. 48:7, Isa. 27:8, and Hosea 12:1, 13:15.

5) Job is largely a book of poetry. It is reasonable, therefore, to assume the author was using �weight� in a poetic sense in this passage to indicate that the wind had a force associated with it. In fact, the NIV, HNL, and World English Bibles do just that and translate the verse as: ��he established the force of the wind�� The NLT and Living Bible versions translate it as: �He made the winds blow��

There is nothing in this passage to indicate the author had the foggiest idea that air was composed of a mixture of gasses that

have mass. The passage is describing the air in motion, i.e., wind, which does feel as if it has a weight to it. Any TSIBAGH who felt the

force of a violent wind such as a sandstorm would consider it to have a definite heft or weight behind it. No divine scientific insight

is evident here.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Science does not agree with the ancient myth book. There is not enough water on our planet to cover the earth entirely. And besides this, where did it go after the flood receded? Perhaps god had a giant sponge? LOL!

SSSSS


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

And I assume YOU think your ability to examine the bible and get the correct meaning from the verses is superior to others, correct? The bible says you can own slaves and sell your daughters too if you so desire. And your god sacrificing his son was no sacrifice unless Jesus remained dead.

A true sacrifice is one where something is irretrievably lost, not simply regained after a few days.

SSSSS


North Wind profile image

North Wind 3 years ago from The World (for now)

Hi Michele,

I do believe that the secrets to science can be found in the Bible. I think that there are many things concerning nature that man's science has not discovered or rather proven. Ultimately, God is the true scientist. He does not have theories. He just knows and does.

Wonderful hub! God bless you.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Yet again another anonymous witness for god. LOL! They're coming out of the woodwork. How brave they are preaching from behind a wall. I'll bet Jesus is so proud. :p

SSSSS


faythef profile image

faythef 3 years ago from USA

when all else fails resort to sarcasm


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

And what are the failings and/or sarcasm you refer to, Mr. or Mrs. anonymous Helper?

SSSSS


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland The Hebrew word for a sphere like a ball is Dur. (Isaiah 22:18) Ball are round, circular, and so is a compass.

40:22, It is He that sit upon the circle OF the earth. Not the earth is a circle. So, this verse is telling us that God is sitting somewhere, not that the earth is a circle.

Isaiah 11:12- And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. This verse is about politics. Do you understand politic?

Revelation 7:1 The east, west , north, and south parts of the world.

Job 38:13 The meaning of the scripture is more then just the words. You should try to understand. It is more then just words.. all the ends of the earth ( try to think about the entire earth)

Matthew 4:8 The devil had the power to show Jesus the entire earth. I know you don't believe that, so I am not going to try. But, the devil was trying to get Jesus to bow down to him. Jesus refused and commanded him to leave. And the devil left.

Four different winds is very good! That means they understand wind even more. They have experience storms you know.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

How many fossils have been found on the tops of mountains? A lot.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Randy, no I am not superior to others. Not at all. If you read the New Testament, Jesus teaches many different things.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you North Wind, There are more scientists and archeologists who are finding things that are written in the bible. I should have put that in this hub also.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

SSSSSS Prove that archeologists have not found the city of Dan that has been written about in the bible.

That is just one of the cities that have been found by archeologists. There are a few more. I can give you a list if you like.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

faythef, I know, some of them do that, but some are not. JMcFarland is not sarcastic. He is one of the people who is educated and used facts.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Michelle - what does finding a city have to do with proving the bible is real. There's a real New York City. Does that mean that Spiderman is real?


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Num. 33:40, "Now the Canaanite, the king of Arad who lived in the Negev in the land of Canaan, heard of the coming of the sons of Israel."

"Arad 30 km NE of Beersheba, excavated from 1962 to 1974 by Y. Aharoni and R. B. K. Amiran." The remains of a Hebrew temple were uncovered at Arad,

Matt. 17:24, "And when they had come to Capernaum, those who collected the two-drachma tax came to Peter, and said, "Does your teacher not pay the two-drachma tax?"--Identified since 1856 with Tell Hum, Capernaum has been sporadically excavated for the past 130 years.

Those are only two, there are a lot more.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Gee Michele, do you know how mountains are formed? Or how long it takes for only a 100 foot thickness of limestone to form on the bottom of the ocean?

I'm sorry if you don't like science or cannot fathom how silly you sound to knowledgeable people. You obviously don't understand geology or science if you are puzzled at how fossils are found at high altitudes.

And as JM has so kindly pointed out, merely because some of the anonymous authors of the bible used real places has no bearing on the other contents of the old novel.

Atlanta is a real place. Does this mean to you Rhett Butler was a real person? This is the same logic you use to try and prove the bible is accurate. In fact, most novels use real places in their contents.

And by the way, merely because I point out fallacies in yours and others thought processes doesn't automatically mean it is sarcasm. I do understand your frustration with the truth, however. It is common in those of your cult.

SSSSS

SSSSS


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland The city of Dan was written about in the bible over 1,000 years before it was even found. And no I don't think Superman is in New York. At least not right now.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

In the past, scientists largely dismissed Noah's flood as a myth, or a local flood, as it was believed that there could not have been enough rainwater to cover the world as high as Mount Everest. Recent discoveries in plate tectonics and crustal physics have shown that a much flatter Earth could have easily been flooded, with the resultant volcanic and geologic activity altering the land surface. These details have demolished the main argument against a global flood, but the tag of "local flood" has remained because atheists do not want any evidence that supports the existence of an Almighty, Creator/God.

Here are over 100 evidences in support of a global flood, rather than a local one.

FROM LOGIC.........[12 reasons]

(1) For rain to fall for forty uninterrupted days on one localized area is currently close to impossible.

(2) A rainbow appeared for the first time after the flood, indicating a radical change in atmospheric conditions as a consequence of a cataclysmic event.

(3) The waters remained for over a year. This would not occur in a local flood.

(4) To be higher than the highest mountains, the flood could not have been local.

(5) To cover the mountains continually for 9 months, the flood could not have been local.

(6) The purpose of the flood was to destroy all human beings. This could only refer to a worldwide flood.

(7) If the flood was local, people living elsewhere in the world would have escaped.

(8) The enormous size of the ark (equivalent to the capacity of 500 railroad freight carriages) would hold much more than local species of animals.

(9) The purpose of the ark to "keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth" is only rational if the flood was global.

(10) Noah and his family could have migrated to a locality away from the local area to be flooded. There would have been no need to spend 120 years building an ark.

(11) Many of the animals in the flooding area could have easily migrated to escape the deluge if the flood was local. There would have been no need to build an ark to provide them with a safe haven.

(12) If God made a promise based on a lie (ie. that the flood being local rather than global), then he can't be trusted to save us from our sins.

FROM SCIENCE....... [45 reasons]

(13) There is a worldwide tradition among natives of a global flood.

(14) According to current archaeological evidence, civilization appears to have originated in the Ararat/Babylon region.

(15) The genealogical records of many of the European kings can be traced back to Japheth, son of Noah.

(16) An analysis of population growth statistics confirms that there was zero population at the estimated time of the end of the flood. This indicates the global demise of humans by Noah's flood.

(17) Human palaeontological evidence exists even in the earliest geologic 'ages' (eg human footprints in Cambrian, Carboniferous, and Cretaceous rocks). If the layers of rock were laid down by a global flood and then interpreted as evolutionary long-ages, human remains and artefacts would appear to be in such positions.

(18) The most ancient human artefacts date to the post-flood era. This indicates that the earlier hardware could have been buried beyond reach by a huge flood.

(19) Calculations have shown that there is nearly the same amount of organic material present today, worldwide, as there would have been if all the fossils were still alive (Morris p:685). This indicates the demise of all living things in a single global event.

(20) Palaeontological evidence indicates that the early earth had a warm/humid climate. This is consistent with the destruction of the old atmosphere by the processes of a global flood as described in Genesis.

(21) The glacial period started very quickly. This would require a cataclysmic event such as a global flood to trigger such a rapid climatic change.

(22) Similar geologic formations exist in rocks of all ages (eg rifts, folds, faults, thrusts, etc.). These can just as easily be explained as being created in the same cataclysmic global event.

(23) Studies show that much of the world's folded beds of sediment have no compression fractures, indicating that they were contorted while they were still wet and soft. For this to occur on a global scale, and on sediment thousands of metres thick, it would have required a catastrophic global flood.

(24) Rocks of different geologic 'ages' have similar physical features indicating that they could have been created by a single worldwide event - such as a global flood.

(25) There is an absence of physical evidence that indicates a time change between rocks of 'successive ages'. Sedimentary rock layers worldwide appear to have been laid down very quickly, as by a global flood.

(26) Globally, there is an almost complete absence of any evidence of animal and plant root activity within the tiny layers of sediment. Slowly deposited layers should show this activity, flood deposits wouldn't.

(27) All types of rocks (eg limestone, shale, granite, etc) occur in all geologic 'ages'. This indicates a common formation on a global scale - the situation that would have been created by the mixing of sediment in a global flood.

(28) Many geological processes have a recent geological date. If the long-age evolutionary time scale is ignored, these processes would have occurred in the very recent past - ie. as a result of the flood cataclysm.

(29) Recent volcanic rocks are distributed widely. (see last point above)

(30) The uplift of the major mountain ranges are relatively young, based on evolutionary chronology. If the long-age evolutionary time scale is ignored, these processes would have occurred in the very recent past - ie as a result of the flood cataclysm.

(31) There is a lack of correlation between radiometric 'ages' and assumed palaeontological 'ages' (Morris p:686). A global flood could easily create an illusion of geologic 'ages'. The consequent conflict between dating methods confirms the illusion.

(32) Fossil 'graveyards' are found worldwide, and in rocks of all 'ages'. Only a catastrophic global flood could achieve this.

(33) The burial of fossil deposits worldwide had to have occurred in a catastrophic event. Only massive flooding could bury in such a fashion.

(34) Marine fossils can be found on the crests of mountains. Apart from mountain uplifting, this can also be explained as the marine animals being washed there and then buried. A global flood could do this.

(35) There is a worldwide distribution of most of the fossil types, indicating transportation on a global scale by a global flood.

(36) Fossils from different 'ages' are often found mixed. This indicates a huge mixing of animal bones that is not consistent with a local flood.

(37) Worldwide, fossils from different 'ages' are often found in the wrong order. This indicates a global mixing of fossils as a consequence of a global flood.

(38) Supposed evolutionary fossil sequences often parallel the ecological zonation that occurs today (Morris p:686). If a global flood mixed organisms from different areas, it would create the illusion of a fossil sequence over time.

(39) Dinosaurs and many other prehistoric creatures died out suddenly. A catastrophe such as a global flood could have produced this result.

(40) Polystrate fossils (viz. vertical fossil tree trunks) that are found worldwide indicate turbulent or rapid deposition. A global flood would be required to do this worldwide.

(41) Polystrate fossils also form when water-logged timber sinks in a large body of water. A year long global flood could produce worldwide polystrate fossils formed in this way.

(42) Animal tracks and other ephemeral markings (ripple-marks and raindrop imprints) have been preserved throughout the geological column. Rapid covering of these markings is required for this preservation worldwide - ie. by a global flood.

(43) Meteorites are basically absent from the geologic column. With the large number of meteorites hitting the earth each year, they should be very plentiful throughout the sedimentary rocks - unless much of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down in one year.

(44) Sedimentary ro


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

(44) Sedimentary rocks contain fossil ripple-marks and raindrop imprints, but no hail imprints. A global flood (with associated rain), that was not caused by storms would not leave hail imprint marks.

(45) Some desert areas show evidence of 'recent' water bodies. Water from a recent global flood would remain in large pools (bodies of water) for some time before evaporating.

(46) There is evidence of a recent drastic rise in sea level. A global flood could easily have created this feature.

(47) Raised shorelines are found worldwide indicating a time when the world had a different sea level. A consistent interpretation of this is that a global flood altered the levels of the oceans and seas.

(48) Mountain-high water level marks found throughout the world are consistent with the recession of a global flood.

(49) River terraces are found worldwide. (Morris p:685)

(50) There is a universal occurrence of rivers in valleys too large for the present stream. Slow erosion over millions of years could not have created these valleys as the mountains would have eroded, keeping pace with the valley erosion. The drainage of global floodwaters from the land surface could easily create such wide valleys in a short period of time.

(51) Only modern sediments show any evidence of surface drainage systems. If the majority of the world's sedimentary rocks were laid down by a global flood there would not be any sign of drainage erosion except for the top layers eroded during the recession of the flood waters off the land.

(52) Hydrologic evidence points to the rapid deposition of sedimentary rock layers. Therefore, the thousand's of metres of sediment must have been deposited by a catastrophic global flood.

(53) Hydrologic evidence points to the world's sedimentary rocks being deposited in one continuous episode. All the layers could have been laid down by a single event, such as a global flood.

(54) Hydrologic experiments show that flowing sediment automatically settles out in distinct layers. Therefore, sedimentary rock layers can be just as easily explained as flood debris, as slow deposition.

(55) There is a worldwide occurrence of deep alluvial deposits and sedimentary rocks consistent with a huge global flood.

(56) There is a near-random deposition of formational sequences. (Morris p:685)

(57) Nowhere in the world is it possible to see the complete geologic column as a single structure. It is always found in bits and pieces, and mostly with pieces missing. Globally, a worldwide flood could create the illusion of a geologic column.

(58) The oldest organisms still alive on Earth today, the Californian Redwoods, Sequoias and Bristlecone Pines, are around 3,000-4,000 years old. Nothing is older that the date of Noah's flood.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

FROM THE GENESIS NARRATIVE........ [47 reasons]

(59) The account in Genesis speaks of the flood being a universal event at least thirty times.

(60) God promised three times not to "smite [destroy - NKJ] every living thing" by a flood (Gen 8:21; 9:11; 9:15). Three occurrences in Scripture indicates absolute truth.

(61) Following the flood, Eden was no longer discussed geographically. If it was a local flood, its general whereabouts would still be known. The total obliteration of the whole earth's geography is therefore inferred - such as by a global flood.

(62) The "waters above the firmament [earth - NKJ]" would not have been localised into a small area. (Gen 1:7)

(63) No rain on the earth before the flood speaks of a worldwide condition. (Gen 2:5)

(64) The whole earth was watered by a mist, prior to the flood. (Gen 2:6)

(65) The dawn of civilization had a high civilization (Genesis chapter 4). This was wiped out and did not recover for a long time.

(66) The long life spans of the pre-diluvial people indicates an entirely different biosphere. (Gen 5:5; 5:8; 5:11; etc)

(67) The subsequent decline in life span following the flood indicates a radically different biosphere. (Gen 23:1; 25:7)

(68) God described the pre-flood people as universally evil (Gen 6:5). He never described the post-flood people as universally evil, so something universal (ie. worldwide) must have happened to weed it out.

(69) Mankind had multiplied all over the earth (Gen 6:1), so the flood had to be global to destroy them all.

(70) God was sorry that he created all living creatures, not just a localised population of animal creatures. (Gen 6:6-7)

(71) The whole earth was seen by God as corrupt. (Gen 6:11-12)

(72) God decided to destroy the whole earth. (Gen 6:13)


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

(73) Everything that had breath was to die. (Gen 6:17)

(74) The purpose of the ark was to keep two of every breathing animal (ie. worldwide species) alive. (Gen 6:19)

(75) Two of every kind of animal and bird came to Noah, not just local fauna. (Gen 6:20)

(76) Noah had to collect samples of all food eaten, not just local foodstuffs. (Gen 6:21)

(77) God wanted the ark "to keep seed [species - NKJ] alive upon the face of the earth". (Gen 7:3)

(78) God promised to destroy every living thing on the earth. (Gen 7:4)

(79) The Hebrew word for flood "mabbul" only refers to Noah's flood, so it must have been different to all other floods. (Gen 7:10)

(80) All the "fountains of the great deep" broke up in one incident. (Gen 7:11)

(81) The "fountains of the great deep" would not have affected a simple, local land-based flood. (Gen 7:11)

(82) The opening of the windows of heaven (if this refers to "the waters above the firmament") would had a global impact. (Gen 7:11)

(83) The double superlative, "all the high mountains under all the heavens" ["all the high hills under the whole heaven" - NKJ], indicates a global covering. (Gen 7:19)

(84) The highest mountains were covered by 15 cubits (6.75m) of water. (Gen 7:20)

(85) The Hebrew word, "kasah", used to mean that the mountains were covered has a meaning of "overwhelming". (Gen 7:20)

(86) Every human died on the whole earth. (Gen 7:21)

(87) All living things on dry land, with "nephesh" life in them, died. (Gen 7:22)

(88) Every living thing on the earth was destroyed. (Gen 7:23)

(89) The floodwater remained at maximum height for 5 months. (Gen 7:24)

(90) The "fountains of the deep" were open for 5 months. (Gen 8:2)

(91) The "windows of heaven" were open for 5 months. (Gen 8:2)

(92) The floodwaters took 5 months to drain off the land. (Gen 8:3)

(93) The ark floated above the mountains for 5 months. (Gen 8:4)

(94) The waters receded for 2.5 months before the mountain tops were visible. (Gen 8:5)

(95) The dove couldn't find solid ground until the water had receded for 4 months. (Gen 8:9)

(96) Plants did not grow for 9 months. (Gen 8:11)

(97) Noah, his family, and the animals were in the ark for over a year. (Gen 8:14)

(98) All current life came out of the ark. (Gen 8:19)

(99) God promised that he would not destroy all living things again in the same way. (Gen 8:21)

(100) The current seasonal conditions date from the end of the flood (Gen 8:22), indicating a radical change from the previous environment.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

FROM ELSEWHERE IN SCRIPTURE...... [9 reasons]

(106) The floodwaters overturned the earth. (Job 12:15)

(107) The floodwaters covered the whole earth. (Is 54:9)

(108) The flood took all people off the face of the earth. (Matt 24:39) - Jesus talking

(109) The flood destroyed all humans. (Luke 17:27) - Jesus talking

(110) The whole world was condemned. (Heb 11:7)

(111) God destroyed the old world. (II Peter 2:5)

(112) God flooded the whole world. (II Peter 2:5)

(113) The Greek word for flood, "kataklusmos", is only used to describe Noah's flood. This indicates that it was vastly different from any other flood. (II Peter 2:5)

(114) The old world perished by flood. (II Peter 3:6)


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Of course you are aware the story of the great flood was stolen from "The Epic of Gilgamesh" many centuries before it was used in the bible, right? Complete with the hero using a dove to find out if the water had receded, just as Noah did. So why would a god plagiarize a mortal's previous tale and tell Moses it was his idea?

The same goes for the Egytian Horus who was the son of god, born of a virgin, had miraculous powers, was killed and brought back to life, and with many other similar traits as your Jesus. Does your god have a lack of originality and is thus forced to steal tales from previous civilizations? One would think such a deity would strive to not do this if he expected to be believed in. These are known facts. Deal with it.

SSSSS


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

The bible cannot validate itself. No matter how badly you wish it could. The bible also says you can sell your children. How much did you ask for yours? Believe any, believe all. Where do you stand?

SSSSS


Michael-Milec profile image

Michael-Milec 3 years ago

Congratulations, Michele already a great success ! You've done a great favour to man: for one, those who needed-/want to know what the Bible

containes on all subjects including the science, secondly for those who are in search to would- like - to know not even knowing how to ask for...

So far the comments are the proof of at least this one thing, that the published matter originated from the eternal-Wisdom source can be comprehended by the same level of spiritual / supernatural reality. Other wise there might come up a small degree of disagreement, however we do understand that too. We do have a promised assurance of God's word, saying, when " I " come back to you in the Spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees him nor knows him , You know him because he remains with you and is in you...--he is -- will-- teach you all things and will- is reminding you of everything...

You got the idea. As long as you do what you know that you ought o do, you know also you're accountable to yourself and to God, and you have my highest regard for that.

Voted Up and very interesting

Shalom. You are not alone !


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Scarlett said "I won't think about that today, I'll think about it tomorrow."

SSSSS


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Randy Godwin yes there is a story of a flood, but does that not prove that a world wide flood was true?


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you Michael-Milec my brother in Christ.

No, we are not alone.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

SSSSSSS

Have a good day.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Michelle - you missed my point about spiderman. We know that New York is a real place, but we also know that fictitious stories are written there that didn't actually happen.

Lets put it in historical terms. You know that Homer wrote the Iliad and Odyssey as myths. For a long time, scholars didn't believe that the Trojan war depicted in these stories was based on a real place - until they discovered what they believe to be Troy. The discovery of troy does not mean that all of the mythological stories about it are true. For example, no one believes that children of the gods fought there. Proving that a place existed historically does not mean that all the stories about that place are true. Proving that a city mentioned in the bible does not mean that what the bible says happened there is true.

There is no evidence, for example, to suggest that the numbers of jews mentioned in Genesis and Exodus were ever enslaved in Egypt, although we know Egypt was a real place. There is no scientific evidence for the flood - a fact that has been pointed out to Ray Comfort numerous times, but he ignores everything that does not agree with his position outright. He's intellectually dishonest, and he's proven it on more than one occasion. I suggest that you do more research if you want to know the truth - and not just listen to whatever someone with THAT much bias says as fact.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

I am no longer going to use Ray for anything. There are sources outside of the bible that have written about Jesus. Roman historians.

People believe that Cleopatra existed even thought there is less evidence for her then there is for Jesus.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

@Michele--I thought you believed in the bible? So you agree some of it isn't true? And no, there is nothing mentioned about Jesus by any known historians contemporary with Jesus. Sure, it's well know the church tainted the works of Josephus and others at a later date because of the embarrassing lack of anything at all about the mythical figure.

Of course, there are plenty of religious sites which will state otherwise, but they can easily be shown to be liars. However, feel free to post a link to a site showing otherwise. I first suggest you do a little research about those making the same claims as yourself.

These claims have been debunked many times on this site and on others for years and not by amateur scholars but by those in the know.

I suspect you were indoctrinated at an early age into your beliefs, perhaps even by your own parents. I realize how difficult it is for you to use your own common sense instead of simply believing everything you have been taught since childhood. I to was subjected to the same brainwashing at an early age, but fortunately I never bought into the whole primitive belief system.

Good luck to opening your eyes to the truth for once in your life.

SSSSS


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

What about the Higgs Boson Particle and how it relates to the Big Bang?

I am pretty sure you understand what I am talking about.

Before there was the big bang there was no time. If there was no time, there was no movement. If there was no movement, how could enough matter have built up to cause the big bang?

None, so if not enough matter could have built up to cause the big bang then how could it have happened?

It could not have happened. So, how did the universe, stars, and planets come to exist?


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

It's plain you don't understand the concept of anti-matter. But you have no problem believing god needed no creator and has always been. What makes you think time only began with the Big Bang?

The light from some of the stars has been traveling for millions of years before reaching the earth. Where was this light coming from before your god created the universe only a few thousand years ago according to your old novel?

I don't know why I keep asking you questions when you ignore them. But then, I do realize you have little knowledge of science outside of the old tome.

SSSSS


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Why do you think, I think the universe is only a few thousand years old? I accepted what you told me about the historians who wrote about Jesus.

I was not ignoring you. We can begin to start to talk about anti-matter. But I would like to explain what I was was trying to do first. If you don't mind

I began ( only began) to start writing about science in terms of the micro-creation of the universe?

I did not even start talking about the speed of the in which it started to move, or the space time continuum.

We can even start to discuss finite micro-biological reasons that life did not start on this earth by just crawling out of the water.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Ok, would you like me to define antimatter and how it has uses in medicine and fuel? Antimatter is taught to teenagers. You know that don't you?


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Then you should have no problem believing something can come from nothing if you are familiar with antimatter.

SSSSS


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Do you ever dream? Just a question.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Name one contemporary roman or jewish historian that mentions Jesus. There aren't any. Nor do they mention any of the supposed miraculous things that happened at his death:

1) No mention of the raised, Jewish zombies wandering around Jerusalem

2) No mention of the hours of supernatural darkness

3) No mention of the double earthquakes

4) No mention of the veil being torn from top to bottom.

In case these things seem trivial and would not be pointed out in the historical record, even though there WERE historians present in Jerusalem when all these events supposedly took place, consider this.

1) Nazarath was not even on the map as a city or a town until after the first century. It was a cemetery and a small, tiny grouping of homes. The bible has Jesus being born in two different years. They have him dying on two different days. There is no extra-biblical historical evidence of his teachings or his miracles. Historians DO mention other "messiahs" that coexisted with Jesus and appeared before and after his time, but they completely miss the "real deal".


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Do you pick and choose the parts of the bible you believe in? Or, like many others of your ilk, do you have your own opinion of what the scripture really means?

SSSSS


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland Randy told me that the church tainted the works of Josephus and others at a later date. I accepted that, and am not trying to argue. I am trying to respect that.

Did I talk about Zombies?

When you look for things on google you usually stop when you find what you want to find.

I have found both,

- Researchers believe that Jesus, as described in the New Testament, was crucified on Friday April 3, 33 A.D.

- Textual and geological clues, along with astronomical data, support the date.

Jesus, as described in the New Testament, was most likely crucified on Friday April 3, 33 A.D.

The latest investigation, reported in the journal International Geology Review, focused on earthquake activity at the Dead Sea, located 13 miles from Jerusalem. The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 27, mentions that an earthquake coincided with the crucifixion:


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Randy, I do not pick and chose. I am not perfect, lol, in fact I am very far from it. I do my best to understand scripture. But, I do believe in God, and that God created the earth, that Jesus is God's Son. Jesus was crucified for our sins.

However, there are a few things I do not believe.

Well, at least one. I don't believe in the Trinity. The Trinity is not true.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Michelle -

Zombies are mentioned in one of the gospels. It says that, at the moment of jesus' death, the tombs were opened, and the bodies of Jewish saints roamed the streets of jerusalem. The problem is that no one seemed to notice them - including the other gospel writers.

Regarding Jesus' birth and death - there are no geological or historical clues, nor are there astronomical clues. I'm talking solely about the gospels, here. Both of the gospels that mention the nativity have Jesus being born in two different years, and obviously both of them cannot be correct.

As for Jesus' death - 3 of the gospels say that he died on the day after the passover meal, which became the "lord's supper". The fourth gospel, however, says that Jesus died on the day before - the day of preparation. These are mutually exclusive.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Sorry, only thought of the word Zombie. As for Jesus Death happening before the last supper, you might be wrong about that.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke each state that Christ was crucified on the “day of preparation.” Preparation comes before the last supper.

the passage in John 19:14-18, which seems to indicate that Christ was crucified on the “Preparation of the Passover.”


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

I think both JM and myself are merely trying to understand where you are coming from, Michele. I don't wish to disrespect your beliefs, merely trying to see things through your eyes. :)

SSSSS


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

that's a misnomer. In Matthew, Mark, and Luke, the last supper was the passover feast, and jesus was arrested on the first day of passover and killed on the second day. In John, however, he is killed on the day of preparation - the day BEFORE the passover feast.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you Randy. I am doing my best to explain. I do have more information, but my family is going out to see a movie. I will put together some more information. I hope that be more understandable.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

No one knows who the authors of the gospel writers were. The first was written around 66 A.D if I'm not mistaken with the others composed even later in time. It is even thought the unknown author of Matthew added the Star Of Bethlehem and the 3 magi into the tale of the birth of Jesus. The reason for this is because Haley's comet appeared and a similar event concerning the magi happened in Rome when the gospel was being composed.

Interesting idea, at any rate.

SSSSS


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Randy Godwin That is interesting. The Magi followed the star, but they did not find Jesus as an infant. When they found Jesus, he had grown into a child.

King Herod got kind of nasty after that.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Historically speaking, even though King Herod had scribes and historians that wrote down every detail of his reign (including the nasty bits), they don't mention the mass-slaughter of the innocents that supposedly happened either.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Well King Herod did many terrible things ( including nasty bits)

However there is one true reference about King Herod killing Jewish Children.

The first non-Christian reference to the massacre is recorded four centuries later by Macrobius (c. 395-423), who writes in his Saturnalia:

"When he [emperor Augustus] heard that among the boys in Syria under two years old whom Herod, king of the Jews, had ordered to kill, his own son was also killed, he said: it is better to be Herod's pig, than his son.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Dang, I hate to refer you to another of my hubs so I won't, but I wrote a hub on the Star of Bethlehem after researching it a few years ago. Perhaps I'll go check my facts and get back to you on the Magi. It's a very intriguing subject.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

and do you know where Macrobius got the information? From the early church, the gospels and the church's alteration and addition to the historical records.

That's the problem. Since the church took over politically, destroyed books and thoughts that disagreed with them and in some cases blatantly assaulted history, others started referring to the church's "history" as fact - which it was not.

If you want to claim that Herod went and killed all children under two, you should look for contemporary evidence, and there isn't any. At all. The second thing you should ask is "should there be", and the answer is a resounding "yes". Herod hired multiple historians that had no problems whatsoever in detailing his multiple indiscretions, his killings, his immorality, etc - but none of them mention the slaughter of children because of the birth of the "savior"


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

I also have to say Dang it. I wrote a hub on "Zombies in the bible". And forgot it, even after JMcFarland wrote "Zombies are mentioned in one of the gospels."

I really need to get a good night sleep.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

If evidence has been destroyed. does that make a crime no longer a crime?

Just wondering.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

but there wasn't any evidence to destroy - the church ADDED it. You're not comparing apples to apples - you're comparing apples to celery.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

I have to agree with JM. 400 some odd years later does not bode well for accuracy and JM is correct because the church itself is one reason the ancient writings have been so corrupted over the centuries. The New Testament itself was similar to the Book of the Week with many authors trying to get in on the act when Christianity became popular. I find those books left out of the Bible to be very entertaining as well.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Well, I am tired, but still have a lot to debate. will be back later on tomorrow, with more information.

I hope you both have good nights.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Good night, Michele. I did go back and read my Reaching for the Star of Bethlehem hub. The very last paragraph is very enlightening concerning how events which happened years after the fact were sometimes added by the authors of the gospels. It explains about the Magi too. Have a look if you are interested.

I hate to keep clunking up this hub but you can delete this link if you like.

http://randygodwin.hubpages.com/hub/Reaching-For-T...


Dennis AuBuchon profile image

Dennis AuBuchon 3 years ago

This is a fantastic hub and I voted interesting, awesome and up. The facts and connection to science in the Bible was unique in how you connected science to specific bible verses.

I also pinned and tweeted.


Faith Reaper profile image

Faith Reaper 3 years ago from southern USA

Excellent hub, Michele, as always. Very interesting. Just as science is now finding that prayer can help to stave off Alzheimer's disease.

Voted up ++++ and sharing

God bless. In His Love, Faith Reaper


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Randy Godwin I don't delete comments I don't like, well unless they use words that are really bad. No one has ever done that. Anyway, perhaps the star was not a star, but an Angel. The star did stop right over the house where Jesus was living.

At first it was very high in the sky, then came lower so that the Magi could find Jesus.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you very much Dennis. People should also read your hubs. They are excellent.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you so much Faith.

Isn't is amazing how much the doctor's are finding out about praying and Alzheimer's and other diseases?


Lipnancy profile image

Lipnancy 3 years ago from Hamburg, New York

Very interesting facts. Personally, I have never understood the point in proving the Bible is of science. To me the Bible is just a guide for my conduct as a Christian.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Thanks Michele, I just meant you may not want the link to appear in your comments, not the comments themselves, but then the entire comment would have to be deleted. Anyway, I merely wanted you to know it was fine with me if you deleted it.

This is an interesting discussion at any rate. I think everyone will gain a bit of insight into how the Bible came to be as it is, no matter their own belief. :)

SSSSS


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Prayer has never been proven to have any more affect than a placebo. One of the most notable prayer studies was done by the templeton foundation, and it found out that prayer can actually make things WORSE, not better.

http://www.templeton.org/pdfs/articles/060331Reute...


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

And after all JM, wouldn't a god already know if someone was going to pray for something long before it ever happened? And the results thereof? What's the point if this is true? Sounds like a done deal long before the prayer is even uttered.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you Lipancy, I appreciate your comment.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

You can put your links into my hubs. I try to find information that disproves it :)


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

The fact of the matter is that prayer negates "free will" and the idea that god is omniscient. If god knows everything that's going to happen but he wants a human being to "choose" him, prayer doesn't matter. He's either going to heal someone or he's not. It's all pre-determined. So why would prayer matter? Are you suggesting that god changes his mind about what he's going to do? Why would prayer make a bit of difference? (not that it does. According to the study itself those that knew they were being prayed for did worse than the ones that weren't and had more complications. Maybe it was performance anxiety) Do you know of any case at any time in history where god healed an amputee?

Michelle, as far as finding links to "disprove" things - you need to be careful of where you get your information and what source it's from. I can find anything on the internet, but that doesn't mean that information is true, just because someone said it.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland Other scientific studies have shown that prayer does work. In fact pray works not only on people, but plants, and well a lot of other things. This study was done by several scientists.

http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=980020


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Randy, No, You do have to pray first. At least I think you do.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

this is what I'm talking about. Your source for that link is highly suspect. They have an agenda - they're blatantly christian, and they're trying to prove their pre-existing bias. Where the templeton foundation did it impartially and followed the scientific method, this group did not.

Additionally, plant growth has been proven by simply talking to plants. Prayer or a kind tone - doesn't make a difference.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Among these problems is the clash between the idea of God as one who answers prayers and that of a God who is all-knowing, all-good and all-powerful. Prayer would be “unnecessary” with such a God, Avalos writes, yet those in the Judeo-Christian faith insist on trying to reconcile two irreconcilable notions. “Every single case of a supposedly answered prayer that I witnessed,” Avalos writes, “can be explained by one or more of the following factors: (1) false assumptions, (2) erroneous information, and (3) wishful thinking.” Further, the main problem with the idea of “controlled experiment” regarding prayer is that there can be no such thing:

You can never divide people into groups that received prayer and those that did not. The main reason is that there is no way to know that someone did not receive prayer. How would anyone know that some distant relative was not praying for a member of the group that Byrd had identified as having received no prayer? How does one control prayers said on behalf of all the sick people in the world? How does one assess the degree of faith in patients that are too sick to be interviewed or in the persons performing the prayers?


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland Pray does matter. We have free will we can pray, or we can chose not to pray. We are not forced to follow God. Are all Atheists amputees?

On the internet you can disprove and I can prove. We can both find links.

Many people believe the holocaust never happened. That it was just made up. The pictures were fake. They can find that on the internet. I wrote a hub on that. People argued about how fake the holocaust was.

Were they fooled? Do you believe the holocaust was real or fake?


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Why so, Michele? After all, your god already knew whether you would go to hell or heaven long before the universe was formed if he is truly all knowing. He would have already known he would drown all of the people and animals on earth--once more--long before he created Adam an Eve. He Already knows the conclusion to this whole vast cosmic play. The long history of human misery and struggle--filled with death of all sorts and pain so horrible it cannot be imagined--all because some bored deity deemed it so.

Of course you know who tempted Satan, but that's a different discussion altogether.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Of course we can both find links, but does that mean that we're both correct? Absolutely not. The problem is that you want to find links that prove that your god is true and that prayer works - and those links ARE available. The links I provide, however, are unbiased. They do studies to try to determine the outcome, not because they want to prove what they already believe is true. It's conformation bias - not independent, unbiased study. Science is different than faith. In science, if you believe that you know the answer but the research and testing you do does not confirm what you believe, you change your hypothesis and submit it to further testing - you don't just go right on believing what you originally thought despite the evidence. Science follows the evidence wherever it leads - even if that means that you were initially wrong. Your faith is not like that. Despite the evidence, you just go right along and believe it anyway because you WANT to. Ultimately, it comes down to a single question. DO you care if your beliefs are true? If you do, then you'll want to find the truth, regardless of the evidence, and if the evidence counters your original beliefs, you change your beliefs. If you don't care if it's really true, then no amount of research to the contrary is going to matter - you're just going to believe it in spite of the evidence. Do you see the difference here?

Why don't you go to your nearest veteran hospital and find a soldier who lost his leg or his arm or both legs in an explosion. Put your hand on him, and pray that god will give him his limb back and see if it works. If it does, you'll win the Nobel prize for proving prayer works. If it doesn't work, then it's because of one of the following reasons

1) Your faith wasn't the size of a mustard seed, and you need to have more faith before your prayers are answered.

2) God heard you but decided not to grant your wish (because he's a genie that can make up his mind at will

3) god didn't hear you because he's to busy NOT doing anything to stop the millions of starving children or those being blown up in his name

4) god didn't hear you because he isn't there - and he doesn't exist.

Pray for 50 amputees. See how many grow their limbs back. It's possible in the animal world. A lot of creatures grow lost limbs back again, and you claim that god created everything and that nothing is impossible for him. It should be possible for humans too. Growing back an arm or a leg is nothing for a god that raises people from the dead.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

So, if God does not grant my wish, then He does not exist? Hmmm, Sorry, that does not work for me. Yes, there is evil in the world. The entire world is suffering. Believe me, I know that. The bible teaches us that there is suffering in this world.

There is evil in control of this earth.

At this point in time satan is the one causing suffering in this world.

satan also hides the truth from many. satan harms those who love God.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

No Randy, I don't think that it has been determined yet. It is up to us. We will be judged But, that also is another discussion altogether.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Michelle -

Please don't put words in my mouth. I listed 4 possible reasons that your prayers would go unanswered, and the VERY last one was the possibility that your god didn't exist. Don't make it seem like I said something I don't.

Lets examine Satan for a moment. Where do you get your information about him? The fall of Lucifer is not a biblical story - it's a jewish and later christian oral tradition that is not found in the bible at all. the picture of the "devil" we get from the bible, especially the Old Testament is vastly different than the notion of satan that christians like to spread around. Satan means "accuser". In legal terms, you would have to consider a courtroom. God is the judge. Jesus is the defense attorney and satan is the prosecutor. He is not evil. He acts, in job, only with god's permission.

the fact of the matter is that satan is a christian invention. he's the nemesis of god, and christians like to ascribe all sorts of powers to him - but they have nothing to base those claims on. Ultimately you have to realize that God invented satan. he created him, knowing full well what the final outcome would be - yet he created him anyway. Satan exists only because god allows him to - and god himself says that he creates evil - not satan. If you want someone to blame for the evil in this world, turn your finger at your god. "

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

—Isaiah 45:7


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Whatever, your god claims to be all-knowing. The end is already known if this is so. We can discuss this later, though.

--RG


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Again, who tempted Satan? You may enjoy this thread concerning the temptation of the bad guy, Michele.

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/60664


Deborah Brooks profile image

Deborah Brooks 3 years ago from Brownsville,TX

Michele.. another excellent read.. I have read all of these in the bible.. and I remember studying each chapter and book and realizing what amazing facts were in there and truths.. God Bless you for writing this

Debbie

sharing on prayer request page


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland I am sorry, I did not mean to put words onto your mouth.

And Isaiah 45 God is telling us He created everything. That is true. Nothing exists without God creating it. So, yes God did create evil. However, we have a choice. We are not robots. We can choose good, or we can choose evil.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Yes, God is all knowing. I would rather discuss it later, if you don't mind, I am going to try to get this hub back to the scientific hub.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Randy, I will look at that forum when I get a chance. It looks very interesting!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for your comment Debbie

Here is some more evidence about science and the bible.

http://youtu.be/oaBrOu0QcvU


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

If god is intrinsically good, and therefore everything he commands is good, yet he created evil - then evil is intrinsically good as well. God created it.

On Science vs Religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv6U2BtdFGc


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

See, this is why I posted the link to the who tempted Satan thread above. After over 500 posts there was still not a satisfactory answer from the believer's side. They just couldn't get their minds around God creating the very evil he supposedly dislikes. Sorta like tempting babies with candy and then beating their butts when they take it. LOL


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland Christopher Hitchens was only preaching atheism. He is pretty good at it. He just want's people to be atheists . But, he made a very bad mistake about Hitler. I can explain Hitler, but that is very in depth.

Hitler joined a cult that worshiped the devil. As for Rome, the pope was able to allow several thousand Jews to escape.

If you wish, I can go into a long explanation about Hitler, Rome, the Pope, and Concentration Camps.

The hubs I have written about Hitler and Concentration Camps are very short. There is a lot more information out there.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Randy, I did look into your forum. But, too many posts to read. Wow, you did start up a good forum.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Michelle -

How can you preach atheism? Atheism is not a religion. It has no tenants, no dogma, no churches, no unified beliefs. Hitler was a staunch catholic until the day he died. He did not worship the devil. I don' t know where you got your information from, but it flies in the face of real, justifiable and provable history.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

You have got to be kidding me. He was evil. Do you even know what evil means?


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Yes, hitler was evil. He was also a catholic. The two are not mutually exclusive. Do you know how many hundreds of thousands of people the catholic church has killed in the last 2000 years? I would call that evil.


gaeparks profile image

gaeparks 3 years ago from North Las Vegas, Nevada

Michele...Excellent Hub!!! I have always and will continue to argue (in the scholarly sense) that science actually proves God. Scientists are the PEOPLE who would rather believe some of the most outlandish circumstances to be facts than to give the credit to a Wise and Intelligent God. There have been old and new evidence that scientific inquiry shows that Biblical events cannot be disproved by science. One of the travesties of the Hubble system is that they refuse to make public some of the images that gives proof to some significant Biblical events. However, be that as it may, all the foundational scientific principles supports intelligence in the very development of the very universe. As you so eloquently show, all we need to do is read the Bible and see the undeniable bridge to science is why you should check my Hub about the need for Christian Education. Well done as always.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Great! A science teacher who can explain where the water which caused the Great Flood came from and where it went to afterwards. Since he claims science cannot dispel the Biblical myths, I'm sure he has the answers.

Please carry on, Mr. gaeparks. I am all ears......er......eyes. lol And oh yeah, how did the animals get back to Australia after the flood?


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Er......Mr. science teacher? Hello? lol.

oooosssssSSSSSSXXXXXXO:--c


Jerry Hulse profile image

Jerry Hulse 3 years ago from Kingsport, Tennessee

This is Awesome, voted up!


teaches12345 profile image

teaches12345 3 years ago

Michele, your post is excellent! The Bible does have a wealth of education and facts that can be applied to life in general. Your key points prove that it is more than just a story book. Wonderfully done and researched. God bless you, sweet lady. Voted up +++


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

gaeparks, thank you for your comment. As a teacher of science and a Christian, you probably understand a lot more about this hub then most.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland May I ask you a question?

How many did the Protestant Church kill?

How many did the Methodist Church kill?

Hitler may have been "Catholic" but in reality? I don't think so.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Hi Randy,

The release of vast amounts of subterranean water and volcanic action that accompanied the flood would create the following conditions:-

Warm oceans .Cold land (due to volcanic ash blocking the

Warm oceans)

Cold land (due to volcanic ash blocking the sun)

These are just the right conditions for an ice age. Lots of water will evaporate from the warm oceans, and precipitate as snow (rather than rain) since the land is cold. Thus, the Flood was followed by an ice age; even the Middle East had a temperate climate as suggested by Job (Job 37:9–10, 38:22–23, 29–30) who lived a few hundred years after the flood.

An ice age is accompanied by low ocean levels - this would allow easy migration. As the ash would have cleared, the land would have warmed, the ice would melt, and ocean levels would rise, and land blocks would get isolated. Perhaps this occurred during the time of Peleg (1 Chronicles 1:19)


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Randy

SSSSSSSSS hee hee hee hee...


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Jerry Hulse

Thank you very much.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you so much teaches.

God bless you


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

Michelle -

The protestant church has killed its fair share. Look up what happened in England alone. When a catholic monarch was in power, they burned protestants as heretics. When a protestant monarch was in power, they turned around and killed catholics. Look at queen Elizabeth I. It's well documented history.

Although Methodists are the second largest denomination now, they have rarely held political power in the timeframe that would allow them to persecute multitudes like their older cousins. However, since they did exist in this country in 1771, it's likely that they tried to convert Native Americans by the boatload - and if they refused to convert, they probably received the typical treatment by the new settlers.

I get that you don't like to believe that hitler was catholic - but that doesn't change the fact that he was.


endless sea profile image

endless sea 3 years ago from Lucknow(U.P.) India

A very interesting hub, Michelle, the fact you mentioned are really awesome, talking about science and Bible, The book does mentions some of the currently known facts of science. The reality of Jesus Christ has been a big topic for debates so has been the existence of God. The Bible mentions the Christ as son of God but the reference has to be taken in a philosophical way. I have been doing my bit of researches on different topics and came to realize that, the writers of the old times have done their bit to write things in a way that only "worthy can understand". The scriptures when say Jesus as son of God it refers to Him being closest to God, when you visit churches they have a segment for kids where they teach them. "How to be son of God", The basic idea of Jesus being son of God is a brilliant piece of work of the writer. Jesus Christ was the only man who followed the 10 commandments given to Moses in Old Testament, his crucifixion being a symbol of sacrifice (a ritual that was followed during the old testament, to seek forgiveness). The existence of Christ is equally true to existence of many great kings till this time, be it the facts like the geological features and disturbances matching those mentioned in Biblical history and Bible or the facts as formation of Earth in six days, the presence of gravitational field, the Earth being round and complex structure of human being, which is biologically impossible to be attained by the process of evolution from a microbial organism. The fact that stories of Bible match the stories of Greek and Norse mythology, not just that the story is parallel to that of Holy Quran, and many similarities are also between Hindu mythological book the Geeta and Ramayana, this adds to the truthfulness of the book ( you should be more optimistic instead of calling something fake or copied) the teachings provided in Bible are that used these days by all kind of people in world. The Bible has two phase (I should not mention this as you all are quite good with facts) the Old and the New Testament, the old being before the birth of Christ and being about prophecies, the formation of the what new world will be like and the New being the new world, the presence of sins, human, believes, disbelieves, mutinies, then comes the scientific part, healing by spirituality (given the base of Noetic science that every particle in the universe contain physical form [even thoughts]) the process of spiritual healing is a possible subject, come the waking up of dead ( we have heard many times that a person was dead for short period of time and somehow he was alive again by doctors of many hospitals, the things like being brain dead are not unknown) this process written before 1000's of years in Bible is fact that things like these existed back then, the environment at that time was much more different than now, that shows how people mentioned in Bible lived so long. Now being the fact that people call Christians evil (the theories like catholic church being super evil organisation) the existence of Christians was not so popular world wide (just Jews existed to most of the people) it was only after Constantine forced most of the Roman Pagan's to turn into Christians cause he liked the idea and believed that Bible is much truthful than having 100,000 + Gods, (if someone does the work wrong way it does not mean the complete community or group is wrong). I agree there have been many things that have led people to disbelieve the existence of Jesus Christ and truthfulness of Bible, many places in our history the leaders have taken decisions to gain people into the religion like formation of 25th Dec as birthday of Jesus Christ, which actually was the Pagan festival of sun God. Yes, people do use unacceptable ways to do things even being a Christian but, that does not defy the truthfulness of The Bible. Anyways, Christianity is now a huge religion, debates like those questioning the truthfulness of Bible and calling it a copy is going against millions of people out there.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

An interesting theory Michele, but not even close. There is not enough water on earth to cover it completely. The bible says it rained 40 days and 40 nights and hid the mountains underneath the flood.

May believers try to change the words in the bible to fit a possible scenario which would be acceptable or possible. But still they can't answer the questions as to where the water came from or where it went after the flood.

The Gilgamesh tale long preceded that of Genesis and was obviously known by the anonymous author of this first book in the Old Testament.

The ice age theory sounds interesting, but the last ice age was over 13,000 years ago, long before man invented your god. No matter if there was such an event as still, there isn't enough water on our planet to even cover the land masses by a few inches, much less the mountains.

And how did the kangaroos get to Australia after leaving the ark, not to mention the other animal species not native to the middle east? I do understand the desperation of some believers to try and make the bible be true, but not to the point of simply ignoring facts to do so.

If one is going to rely on the words in the bible, them use them as they are, or not at all. Otherwise it's merely a futile exercise in "what ifs."

I can't see a deity making it more confusing and contradictory than it is and expecting to leave a clear and believable message, especially for primitive humans. What would be the point?

SSSSS


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 3 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

Very nice comment Randy, And everything you say makes sense, for our science and human understanding. Some day science will be able to explain true acts of God.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland All I meant when I wrote that Hitler wasn't really a Catholic, was that Hitler was an evil man. Hitler was evil, or is there a reason that you think Hitler was not evil?


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

endless sea

Thank you for your very long comment. I appreciate it very much.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland I know you like to blame the all the killings on religion, but the ones in England some were political. They did call it religion, but it is a fancy way of killing those that oppose.

As for Native Americans. They were treated horribly no matter what. Religion or not.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Randy

I am about to take my daughter out, so I will need a little time. It has been a busy day. But let me study up on this after we get home.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Ericdierker

I agree with you very much

God bless you


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

No problem, Michele. While you are at it, check to see how long it takes for limestone to form in the oceans. Some layers are many hundreds of feet in thickness. Thanks for the discussion! :)

--RG


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

HITLER did evil things. That does not mean that he was not a catholic. Lots of catholics, protestants, muslims, etc have done evil things.


samowhamo profile image

samowhamo 3 years ago

Hey Michele do you beleive as some christians beleive that dinosaur bones were planted here. The Bible (as far as I know) does not say that or even hint at that and there are creatures in the Bible that are like dinosaurs such as the Leviathan and dragons and even creatures that the Old Testament calls Tannin which is often interpreted as meaning giant reptilian beast, or dragon, or sea serpent.


MarleneB profile image

MarleneB 3 years ago from Northern California, USA

Quite fascinating! I really enjoyed reading all the facts in the Bible linked to scientific studies.


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 3 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

Hey samowhamo, I have looked at swirls and nautalus fossil remains that must be a billion years old. Wonderful! A place called nautaloid canyon within the huge Grand Canyon. I have hiked near there where one inch of deposit took one thousand years.

Here is a fun carpenter story: A pig finally got a job on a construction site and did great for four days. On the fifth he showed up 45 minutes late. The foreman asked, what the &*)&)&^(^&(? The pig said, what is time to a pig?

What is time for the alpha and omega? All things are truly possible in Him.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland That is true, but so have atheists

Mussolini is notorious for his war crimes as a Fascist dictator during World War II. As a young man he openly declared his atheism, and in his early career as a politician was openly anti-clerical. He was the Italian leader of the National Fascist Party, became Prime Minister in 1922 and was eventually a dictator who severely restricted freedom of speech. Mussolini supported Hitler’s conquest of Austria. In 1935, he invaded Ethiopia, using poison gas, bombing Red Cross hospitals and concentration camps to kill civilians and destroy “inferior” cultures. He ordered the execution of prisoners without trial and the shooting of “witch-doctors”. Italian troops used public executions, hostage taking and burning of villages to crush the Slavic population of Yugoslavia. These acts are now widely considered an attempt at genocide. However, later he tried to associate Fascism with Catholicism in order to garner dwindling support (however his widow made it clear that he was still staunchly atheist). Mussolini was also deeply anti-Semitic.

Many people agree that Napoleon Bonaparte, heavily involved in the anti-clerical French Revolution, was atheist – he claimed that “all religions have been made by men”. He was one of the best ever military commanders, and conquered much of Europe. He staged a coup and declared himself Emperor. While he ended anarchy in post-Revolution France, many considered him a tyrant and usurper. He ignored treaties and conventions, seeking undisputed rule throughout Europe. He plundered conquered territories. His 17 years of rule resulted in the bankruptcy of France, loss of many of her territories, six million dead Europeans and economic setback in just one generation.

Mao Zedong led the Communist Party of China to victory in the Chinese Civil War, helping to establish the People’s Republic of China. He had ambitions for a strong China, but his programs largely failed altogether. He has been blamed for the death of between 20 and 67 million of his “comrades”. Under his insane rule there was a culture akin to anarchy, that killed the economy and industrial production. His “Great Leap Forward” triggered a catastrophic and massive famine. However, he is most notorious for the precepts of the “Cultural Revolution”, which led to perhaps the greatest era of cultural vandalism the world has ever known. Antiques, historical sites, artifacts, ancient documents, feng shui traditions, Chinese traditional dresses and monasteries were destroyed for being associated with the “old ways of thinking”. Many copies of the Qu’ran were burnt. Red Guard groups around the country destroyed political and educational stability, criticizing anyone who considered himself superior, destroying reputations and lives. Mao, privately, led a life of great deviancy and excess. He also exacted revenge on all those, mainly intellectuals and professionals, who had disgraced Mao in his earlier career. He also targeted anyone with links to the Chinese Nationalist Party as well as anyone who posed a threat to him. Five million were executed in death camps. 36 million were persecuted and tortured. There were even instances of cannibalism.

Pol Pot was the leader of the Khmer Rouge and Prime Minister of Cambodia from 1976 to 1979, having been de facto leader since mid-1975. During his time in power Pol Pot imposed an extreme version of agrarian communism, where all city dwellers were relocated to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labour projects. The combined effect of slave labour, malnutrition, poor medical care and executions is estimated to have killed around 2 million Cambodians (approximately one third of the population). His regime achieved special notoriety by singling out all intellectuals, and other “bourgeois enemies”, for murder. The Khmer Rouge committed mass executions in sites known as the Killing Fields, and the executed were buried in mass graves. In order to save ammunition, executions were often carried out using hammers, axe handles, spades or sharpened bamboo sticks. His attempts to “cleanse” the country resulted in the deaths of 1.7 to 2.5 million people. He also had an intense dislike of anyone with the semblance of being intelligent, such as those who wore glasses or who spoke another language.

Stalin was General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union’s Central Committee, from 1922 until his death in 1953. Under Stalin’s leadership, the Ukraine suffered a famine (Holodomor) so great it is considered by many to be an act of genocide on the part of Stalin’s government. Estimates of the number of deaths range from 2.5 million to 10 million. The famine was caused by direct political and administrative decisions. In addition to the famine, Stalin ordered purges within the Soviet Union of any person deemed to be an enemy of the state (i.e. capitalists, theists). In total, estimates of the total number murdered under Stalin’s reign, range from 10 million to 60 million. His government promoted atheism with mass propaganda in school, and held a terror campaign against the religious. He crushed the Russian Orthodox Church, leveling thousands of churches and shooting more than 100,000 priests, monks and nuns between 1937 and 1938.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

JMcFarland

So have many others.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

samowhamo, I think people interpret it differently. But, no I don't think the bones were planted here. Dinosaurs lived before humans. The earth is way over 6,000 years old. For some reason a few people think , that I think it is only a few thousand years old. I don't know why, but they have told me that I think the world is only a few thousand years old. That is just weird.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

MarleneB

Thank you very much for your comment.

God bless you


Felipe717 profile image

Felipe717 3 years ago from Philadelphia, PA

Hey Randy,

A lot of people question where all the water for the flood came from but if you read the entire story you see that most of the water came from under the earth.

Genesis 7:11, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month - on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened."

Everyone knows that it rained for 40 days and nights but the waters of the great deep kept rising for 150 days as it says in verse 24.

Genesis 7:24, "The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days."

So the waters no only came from the rain but most of it came from under the earth.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Felipe717 Thank you very much for you comment. You are helping me more then you will ever know.l


one of them 3 years ago

I could send her to hell if I wish


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Sorry Felipe, but I'm afraid this is impossible. The amount of water it would take to cover the earth could not have come from beneath the surface of the planet.

You must remember the plates of the earth float atop molten rock--lava or magma is the scientific term for it--and we know what happens when water and this hot material comes into contact with each other.

Perhaps you've read of Thera and Krakatoa? These islands exploded because seawater and magma mixed together creating steam during volcanic eruptions with these being merely small scale events compared to what would happen to the earth if such water was beneath the plates originally or if the water drained down into the cracks of the earth after the mythical flood. The entire planet would have exploded if such had happened.

Try again, as your suggested scenario is quite impossible unless you go the "magic" route and the water simply appeared from nowhere and then disappeared in the same manner. Or if you wish to suspend the natural and physical laws altogether.

Also if the water covered up Mt. Everest and other such giant mountains the ark would be floating so high in the air--at these mountaintop heights--everyone and every creature would freeze to death being at such high altitudes.

Nothing to do with the old myth works out as being plausible concerning the Biblical flood myth. Not even going into how the kangaroos got back to Australia after the ark was grounded. But feel free to hazard a guess if you are that imaginative.

SSSSS


FSlovenec profile image

FSlovenec 3 years ago from San Francisco, CA

Thank you..Praise God the Bible is the fundamental truth!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

FSlovenec Thank you very much for your comment.

Randy, I am sorry yesterday and today I have been so busy!!. But, I do have some comments on the flood.

one of them I think you need to take your medication.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Ha, Michele! You may be correct. Perhaps if I tried some LSD I could buy into all of the patently ridiculous explanations for the great flood being possible as stated in the old novel. :)

SSSSS


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

lol!!! Or maybe you can decide who goes to Heaven or Hell.

SSSSSSSSSSS

I promise not to take your ssssssssssss away from you again!


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Perhaps so, Michele. I feel just as qualified to do so as any believer I've ever met--not that I believe either place exists. lol!

SSSSS


Oscarlites profile image

Oscarlites 3 years ago from Alabama

I've got to hand it to you.. Michele, that you stand up to these doubters and unbelievers is awesome. truth shall stand. simple as that. If most of you even came close to it you wouldn't see it. "this is the victory that overcometh, even our faith". God gave us total reasons to trust and to have faith. keep up the good work. We don't need drugs. That ironically is what the world offers and it is very sad they offer it, is that all they have? God's Presence is real and powerful. Awesome hub!


gaeparks profile image

gaeparks 3 years ago from North Las Vegas, Nevada

Randy Goodwin

Check out the Hubble research and how it shows that the Earth was completely covered with water for a period of time. One of the things we do as humans is that we attempt to put God in the same time and space as construct that we are when in fact He operates outside of time as we know it and often times our interpretation and written leads to misunderstandings and therefore arguments such as yours. Be that as it may...the Bible and God's Word in it are true regardless of how you would try to spin it. Although all things in the Bible are true...all truths are not recorded in the Bible.


JMcFarland profile image

JMcFarland 3 years ago from The US of A, but I'm Open to Suggestions

gaeparks - Do you have a link? I've been all over the hubble sites and they say that they've found a planet that IS completely covered in water, but not that the earth was. How could a telescope possibly be a time machine that looks back and sees a water-covered earth?


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

@Oscarlites--Where does drugs come into the equation in this discussion? I'd bet you would clamor for drugs if you or a family member needed them in times of illness. Science, not your petty little god, is responsible for creating many life saving drugs to help mankind and they have cured many millions of people more than your fictional Jesus ever dreamed of. Or would you simply pray to your god for healing instead?

I've found most of your ilk are the first ones to seek medical care instead of depending on being healed by simply praying for it. Oh let me guess, your god created science also? lol!


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Gaeparks--Like Julie, I'd love to see a link where you found this info. And you are referencing our words as "spinning" the truth? lol! And I don't believe you are a teacher of science in any reputable school unless it is a religious based institution which is well known for using pure fabrication instead of facts to try and prove nonsense.

I'll be looking for you to provide the link to the Hubble information you claim exists, otherwise I will consider you simply another liar for Jesus, as so many others are on this site. Science teacher my asp! lol!

sssss


gaeparks profile image

gaeparks 3 years ago from North Las Vegas, Nevada

Randy Godwin

I am no liar. And as for the school where I teach...you could not keep up with my slowest student. I teach AP Level Physics and Chemistry. I do not teach at a religious based school. You seem ike the type of person who has little real knowledge and seek to attack others. I really do not have to prove anything to you or anyone else. If you seek you too shall find and discover. You sitting back and simply saying "prove it to you" will make us enablers to your laziness. I know the information is true because I and done the research. For the record the Bible has been formally challenged over 1300 times and has NEVER been disproven. If you want to know by whom and when...look it up. You cannot believe that I am a science teacher simply because I am mature enough t also accept that God exist...who now is narrow minded. Mr Godwin...if you seek the knowledge you will find it and then some...stop attacking and criticizing and seek knowledge for yourself. You can believe whatever you choose...just as I and all others; but, before you attack others...do educate yourself. Otherwise you become and poor representative of yourself.


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

LOL!@gaeparks! I didn't expect you back up your claims, dude. you are representative of many of your ilk who make sweeping claims but failt back up your words with a link.

Your reference to my intelligent as per keeping up with your students when having no knowledge of my ability is also typical of your cult. What do you not understand about gaining a bit of credibility on the forums? Did you simply expect people to take you at your word? lol!

"For the record the Bible has been formally challenged over 1300 times and has NEVER been disproven."

Another false claim I doubt you will back up with a reputable source either. lol!

Do you simply take what those who disagree with you merely on THEIR word? If so here! "There are hundreds, if not thousands, of gods just as powerful as yours. " Disprove that, honey pie! And don't ask for a source, do the research yourself. And take me at my word as you expect others to do yours. lol!


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 3 years ago from Southern California

Put down the bibles and you have nothing to say about God

But science is found in many different books, written by different people and continually being updated as we learn more.

Nothing has been added to the bibles since they were written.


Michael-Milec profile image

Michael-Milec 3 years ago

Hello ib radmasters .

Nice to meet you by your own words " gives me to check my viewpoint and see if there is a better viewpoint that mine." This is just it as looking for comparisment of the viewpoints. Who's going to decide " different " viewpoints about this book ' Bible'?

However it's more than just "viewpoint" for those who have embraced it's message by unfauthomable ability of faith, and have experienced it's truth and manifestation supernatural of God's intervention in human life. These are not here for comparisment of " viewpoints " or speculation what about after " the bible is put down." Simply, because God's word doesn't depend on " our" opinion, since those who are of God, see and know continuing of God's presence in the constant " updating " if you want ,to the pages of " new inventions, and discoveries" to give the humanity whenever He sees it is right time for upgrading that what already " exists.

To our faith's understanding it is His Love manifested in giving what is needed at the time when we even do not know what is needed.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 3 years ago from Southern California

Michael

Thanks for the reply, but you really didn't respond to my comment.

For the past two thousand years there has been no addition to the bibles, and actually the bibles weren't really in circulation until after the printing press was invented. So maybe five hundred years for the bibles, but still two thousand years for the events depicted in the New Testament, and 12,000 years to 4.5 billion years for the Old Testament.

The bibles themselves were cobbled together by humans without any direction from God or Jesus.

Over the centuries, the bibles have been interpreted by many religions, and even layman who do bible study. But there is no one that knows the true meaning and interpretation for the bibles.

Everyday, preachers, priests, and televangelists give their interpretation of the bibles, but they are just giving their opinions. It is not like God or Jesus is giving the interpretation.

So my point in my previous comment to your hub is close the bible and talk God and Jesus without quoting the bible.

Science on the other hand can be applied, and if the theory is wrong then the application will fail. And for theories that can't be verified, they remain theories.

Thanks


Michael-Milec profile image

Michael-Milec 3 years ago

ib radmasters , Hi.

You're saying " Put down the bibles and you have nothing to say about God." You mean to put it away ? Or you want to say while the people 'have' the bible can 'say' or prove the existence of the God? Far from correct. " We " all who know God by FAITH, do - not - need - the - bible to talk about Him or even to prove His existence. He IS one who was in the beginning, and will be forever. The righteous individuals and the nations knew Him before the bible was put together , they talked about Him because He choose to meet them, to talk to them, to lead them and to teach them. That how the " book " has been put together when He wanted the rest of the humanity to have chance to know about Him, to know His will and His revealed redemptive means to bring rebellious mankind back into the original dominion purposes. Anyone with little of understanding His progressive dealing with mankind, recognizes how gradually God realeases freely out of His wisdom that what we see as scientific progress and updating ...

Your remark " nothing has been added to the bibles since they were written.." is stating the fact that nothing more is needed to be written from God's standpoint. He knows what's going on, He's in controll. He set in orbit the purpose and the history duration for this social system , and , glory to God, it's being fulfieled exactly , precisely as the " Book" predicts .

Thanks for reading


Randy Godwin profile image

Randy Godwin 3 years ago from Southern Georgia

Not even close! The old novel was written by anonymous common men. No gods necessary.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 3 years ago from Southern California

Michael

"You're saying " Put down the bibles and you have nothing to say about God." You mean to put it away ? Or you want to say while the people 'have' the bible can 'say' or prove the existence of the God?

ib***************

I stated it specifically, no quotes from the bibles.

*****************

Far from correct. " We " all who know God by FAITH, do - not - need - the - bible to talk about Him or even to prove His existence. He IS one who was in the beginning, and will be forever.

ib***************

Faith is an opinion, not a fact

Faith doesn't require facts, or truth.

*****************

The righteous individuals and the nations knew Him before the bible was put together , they talked about Him because He choose to meet them, to talk to them, to lead them and to teach them.

ib***************

Who are we talking about, he , them.

*****************

That how the " book " has been put together when

ib***************

What book?

*****************

He wanted the rest of the humanity to have chance to know about Him, to know His will and His revealed redemptive means to bring rebellious mankind back into the original dominion purposes.

ib***************

I still don't know "his"

******************

Anyone with little of understanding His progressive dealing with mankind, recognizes how gradually God realeases freely out of His wisdom that what we see as scientific progress and updating ...

Ib******************

what wisdom

There is no authenticated writings or independent evidence to support your opinion.

********************

Your remark " nothing has been added to the bibles since they were written.." is stating the fact that nothing more is needed to be written from God's standpoint.

ib******************

What is God's stand point.

There are two bibles, written hundreds of years apart, by different authors and not made into a bible until a thousand years later. Edited by a mere human, not God, or Jesus.

********************

He knows what's going on,

ib******************

While the people in the world are acting like there is no God, Evil is dominant all around the world today.

********************

He's in controll.

ib******************

If he is in control then he is part of the problem

********************

He set in orbit the purpose and the history duration for this social system , and , glory to God, it's being fulfieled exactly , precisely as the " Book" predicts ."

ib*******************

If this evil is the prediction, then God is the Evil, because Evil is the power in the world today.

Humans have not changed for the better since recorded history, and this includes AD.

*********************


Michael-Milec profile image

Michael-Milec 3 years ago

ib**********

So long


lone77star profile image

lone77star 3 years ago from Cebu, Philippines

Michele Travis, great list. Nice article.

Minor complaint about #5. "Air" is not "gravity." Weight is the effect gravity has on mass.

I also have to caution you about #9. Yes, different parts of the world were covered by water for long stretches -- millions of years at a time -- forming sedimentation, some places as much as a mile or more thick. But these had nothing to do with the Great Flood. The Flood was a brief event (if it was a literal event) -- too brief to explain all of the sedimentation. Besides, much of the water came from the deep (not as rain) so there would have been no erosion there. Also, rain-caused erosion would've created sedimentary layers only at lower elevations or out in the sea -- none of it in the high plateaus, like Northern Arizona and the Grand Canyon.

I have to laugh at biblical scholars who attempt to claim the sedimentation surrounding the Grand Canyon came from the Flood, because all of that rock would have to have come from higher ground -- but where? Rock does not stay suspended in water for very long, if at all. And how easy is it to have a mile of sedimentation in suspension in water that's only 5 miles deep. Imagine a glass of water with suspended material. When the 5 inches of water dries, you don't have an inch of rock. You might not even have a hundredth of an inch, depending on how well you can suspend particulates.

Once the water rose above an area, it would no longer be a source of erosion. Some people don't think this through very clearly.

There are many puzzles regarding the Flood. Some would require divine intervention. Well, that's exactly what we're talking about, but I suspect that sedimentation was a very small effect. Most of that water was either created whole-cloth, or transported from another planet. And hey, it's God's universe. He can do whatever He wants with it.

And Ussher's literal date is wrong, because too many people were living on Earth at that time, after his Flood date (2348 BC).

A biblical timeline compatible with those of science shows that the Flood occurred 27,970 BC, right when one very specific species ceased to exist -- the "daughters of man" mentioned in Genesis 6.

And thanks for the video. That's great stuff.


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 3 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

Author and Loner; Just about #9. Clearly you have not walked in these billion year old layers of geology. Clearly you do not have a degree in geology. And clearly you look to proof for the Bible.

Understanding the above I tell you that sedimentary rock as you suggest it to be does not cover so much earth. Fluvial soil may match your thought. Way much of our earth is covered in soil not rock. And sedimentary goes up not across.

But your ten is a kicker. We no longer quarantine cancer patients. It was cruel and barbaric.

You should probably drop this notion.


ignugent17 profile image

ignugent17 3 years ago

Interesting hub!


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 3 years ago from Southern California

MT

The problem with hubs that have many long comments is that most people don't read any of the comments except their own. So skimming down on these comments, I have no idea what is the conclusion of this hub.

I gave my own detailed comments and replies and I was basically ignored.

The bottom line is that the bibles were man made by humans and after the information that is provided in them.

The fact that there are two bibles brings doubt that there is anything divine inspired in them.

There are no clear timelines in the bibles that we can put together to make any meaningful information, or facts.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

ib sorry it has been so long, I am not trying to ignore anyone. I have been very busy, trying to get a master's degree. Well, still working on getting IN to the school, at this time studying for the GRE.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 3 years ago from Southern California

MT

Carry on, and I hope you get it.


Ericdierker profile image

Ericdierker 3 years ago from Spring Valley, CA. U.S.A.

Ditto's MT. I am rooting for you. They call it higher education and "graduate school" for a reason. Our world needs you bright people.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you both. I will be a Nurse Practitioner. Well, not for a while. it is going to take a while.

Have a Bachelor's Degree, so the Master's Degree is next.

Don't think I will be on hubpages. But, you both are good writers. Can I check up on you from time to time?

See you later!


Michael-Milec profile image

Michael-Milec 3 years ago

Our gracious Heavenly Father is giving you the desire of your heart. My prayer , that He'll give you good health and prosper you . May He be glorified forever. Amen. Thank you Jesus

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working