The Bible Does Not Teach an Eternity of Anything

In my previous hub, I showed that judgment does not take place in some hell hole of torture. In fact, the word hell has no place in scripture because it's not scripture. The Lake of Fire is, however. What it isn't, is a litteral place of burning. You should have understood that fire is from God and God is Fire. This symbolic fire purifies as it burns out all stuble. Knowing this, we should conclude that this judgment must come to an end. So why does the bible say judgment is eternal or forever? Say it with me people.

Mis

trans

lation.

One of the easiest mistranslations to prove is that of forever and eternal. It is easy because the words are used in ways that could never mean forever or eternal. Unlike the word hell, the KJ is usually consistent in keeping the words eternity, eternal, forever, and forever and ever. For instance:

aion=eternity

aions=forever

aionios=eternal

aions of the aions=forever and ever

I can't remember what everlasting comes from but it obviously means age lasting. However, once the KJ really drops the ball by tranlating aions as world. You know, since the aions began? What if it'd said, "since the forever began"? I, with the help of my teacher Ray Smith, will now take apart this mistranslation and expose it for what it is.

The Most Evil Mistranslation in Scripture:

Eternity, Eternal, Forever, Forever and Ever (Eternity x 2):

Judgment is misrepresented by the KJ Bible as lasting an eternity or forever. The ancient Greeks and Hebrews had no term for our English eternity. In scripture, the kingdom of God is said to be “without end”. Paul speaks of incorruption and immortality and a time in which God will be “all in all”. But eternal is not correct.

The Greek Word aion, aionios, (Olam) Translated Everlasting – Eternal In The Holy Bible, Shown To Denote Limited Duration

By Rev. John Wesley Hanson, A.M.

Editor of The New Covenant

Chicago: Northwestern Universalist Publishing House 1975

(Quotes Professor Knapp, author of The Greek Testament Known)-“The pure idea of eternity is too abstract to have been conceived in the early ages of the world, and accordingly is not found expressed by any word in the ancient languages.

Rev. Goodwin-“We have the whole evidence of seven Greek writers, extending through about six centuries, down to the age of Plato, who make use of aion common with other words; and not one of them ever employs it in the sense of eternity.”

The term aions is used below in ways that when the rest is translated properly, forever or eternity would never make sense.

Before the aions: 1 Cor. 2:7 (before the eternities?)

God makes the aions Heb. 1:2 (God makes the forevers?)

Past aions: Col. 1:26 (Past eternities)

Present aion: Gal. 1:4 (Present forever)

End of present aion: Mat. 24:3 (End of present eternity)

The next aion: Lk. 18:30 (The next forever?)

Future aions: Eph. 2:7 (Future eternities?)

Contrasting aions: Eph. 3:21 (Contrasting forevers?)

Ends of the aions: 1 Cor.10:11 (Ends of the eternities?)

Eph. 2:1-3

And you, being dead to your offenses and sins, in which once you walked, in accord with the aion (not eternity) of this world, in accord with the chief of the jurisdiction of the air (Satan), the spirit now operating in the sons of stubbornness. . .

Gen.-. . . . .; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. . .He that is born in your house, and he that is bought with your money, must be circumcised: and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting (olam) covenant.

Well?

Gal. 5:2

Behold, I Paul say unto you, If Ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Heb. 8:9

. . .as it (Old Covenant) was replaced by a new covenant “which was clearly not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers. . .” (Wasn’t OC everlasting?)

Lev. 16:34

“And this shall be an everlasting (olam) statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. . .

Rom. 5:11

“And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by Whom we have now received the atonement.

More on this everlasting statute:

Heb. 10:4, 9-10

But in those sacrifices there is remembrance again made of sins every year. . .Then said He, Lo, I come to do Thy will, O God, He takes away the first (covenant) that He may establish the second (covenant). By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This eternal covenant lasted less than 1500 years.

Exodus 21:6

Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever (olam) (Eternal servant? I think not.)

II Corinthians 4:4

. . . in whom the god (Satan) of this aion (is Satan the God of eternity?) blinds the apprehensions of the unbelieving so that the illumination of the evangel of the glory of Christ, Who is the Image of the invisible God. (No trinity here either)

1 Cor. 15:24-26

Then comes the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father, when He (Christ) shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign, till (and no longer) He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (As you can see, calling Christ the God of eternity rather than the God of the ages or eonian is incorrect)

Instances where aionios cannot possibly mean eternal:

Rom 16:25

. . .according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world (aionios) began. (the word kosmos is not found in this verse, they knew eternities or forevers wouldn’t make sense). Eternity has no beginning.

II Thes. 2:16

. . . and has given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace. (Just how long are we going to need consolation and hope? for eternity? When will we experience the promises?)

II Tim. 1:9

. . . according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began (times eonian) (What if it had said before eternity?)

Jude 7

Even as Sodom and Gomorha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal (eonian) fire (justice of fire eonian).

But Look:

Ezekial 16:55

When your sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then you (Jerusalem) shall return to your former estate. (their former estate was not in hell, was it?)

“Justinian called a council in 540 wherein he labored to add the word “endless” to the Greek aionios life. He knew and conceded that aionios was not endless, and so insisted in the Church inserting the word endless before it to signify “endless life” and “endless punishment.” (Ray Smith)

The Greek aion is the same as the English Eon and the Greek aionios is the English eonian. These words never mean forever. Had God wanted His Word to have a term meaning forever, there would have been one in the language of the day.

Judgment will not last forever as the theologians insist, but are eonian. Once all sins have been repented of each new creature will be given life immortal and will be in The Kingdom of God which “will have no end”.

And for those who think only those who have heard the truth can be punished (aionios chastisement)

Rom 2:12

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law. (Making some eternal hell even more unjustifiable when it’s already unspeakably unjustified.)

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Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Hello, Hell No ~ it's good that you have some spiritual yearning. I haven't studied on this word and so I will study. Do notate that "god" and "God" mean completely different things in the Bible, just like Lord and LORD. I hope you read up on why the word "trinity" is used (in reference to the One-ness of God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit). I'll get back with you as to my study results.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Yeah, well notice that in satire I use god instead of God. There is also no evidence for God being a trinity. We have God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Son inherited the holy spirit. It is like the breath of God. One created the Other. Yes, I do have spiritual yearning but the lie of eternal burning has nothing spiritual in it.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Well, I don't see where Jesus "inherited" the Holy Spirit.  The word "Spirit" does translate "breath or blast of air".  It is the Spirit of God that was breathed onto (into) the Gentiles by Jesus in John 20:22 (the Holy Spirit of God was in Him). Colossians 2:9 states that "In Him [Jesus] dwealt the fulness of the Godhead bodily". Jesus' name was also Immanuel (God with us). Furthermore, Jesus also said to his disciples, "If you've seen me, you have seen the Father, for I and the Father are ONE."

We know there is God the Father; Jesus (His name as a human) is the only begotten (born) Son of God; and the Holy Spirit is stated as the "breath or blast of air" of God by which Jesus was raised from the dead and likewise by which believers will be raised.

The "trinity" is simply an English word to describe the three entities of the diety of God spoken of throughout the scriptures.

For example, John 1 states that in the beginning was God (Elohim, meaning One, but plural ~ a concecpt from which the word trinity [plural in one] is derrived).  It goes on to state that the Word was with God (Jesus is the Word that became flesh; here he is shown as the Word), and the Word was God (Jesus is God).  And finally it states that the Word (Jesus) became flesh and dwelt among us.

My best human explanation is like this: the Bible says we are made in God's image. We have a body, breath, and are able to speak. We cannot do anything without the other, unless we have a disability. We must have a body in which to breathe; we need breath to speak words. That's the best I can do ~


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

The trinity is a pagan concept and is unfounded in scripture. It's basically a doctrine that excludes people from entering into the family of God. God is not a closed trinity, but an expanding family.

The Son could not have existed eternally with the Father and besides, the trinity has The Father, Son and holy spirit as three equil and eternal entities of one god. What the scriptures show is the Son possesses all that the Father possesses because all was given to the Son. The scriptures show that all was created through the Son. I think it should be understood that Christ is the God of the Old Testament. One of the reasons Christ emptied himself to become a man was to reveal the Father to the world. After all, no one has seen or heard God the Father. Moses saw God's hindparts and heard Him speak. He heard the Son Who became the Christ. I know in the New Testament a voice proclaims "This is My Son Whom I am well pleased". I must study that part more. If that is the Father speaking then it must be after Jesus said "none have seen or heard the Father".

There are several church doctrines that are right out of paganism. I try to stay away from exposing all of the nonsense doctrines of modern day Babylon. My focus is on destroying the idea that people will be roasted in some barbacue pit for all eternity. Rather, I wish to show that all will eventually be saved. This is scriptural and I've shown scriptural proof in my hubs. But the other stuff? If it can't be used to defend that most deplorable doctrine ever, then I would prefer not to write about it. But if you insist, I have a wealth of scriptures that pretty much destroy the trinity doctrine and I challenge someone to show me scriptures in favor of it. Let me know if you want to see them.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

So, if you believe that Elohim is an expanding family of God, then that is following Weinland's teaching (the Church of God).  Weinland has a ton of holes in his prophesy (see my hub entitled A False Prophet of the Last Days?), but that doesn't make ALL of his teachings WRONG. It does mean, however, that he is not one of the two last-day prophets, as God's prophets would not have a single error in prophecy.

"Son" in the Bible does translate as "angel" and angel translates as "messenger of God".  Jesus indeed is called an Angel in the burning bush story.  However, begotten Son could then mean an Angel was born. Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is Michael the Archangel and was created by God but is not equal with God.  They don't believe he was raised from the dead, but that his body was annihilated and then he was re-created as Michael.

Mormons believe Jesus was Adam and that we, like Adam will become like God, like Jesus did as the "first Adam"(through their church, of course).

The bottom line of salvation is this: Jesus asked Peter, "Who do you say that I AM?"  Peter said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." Our knowledge and confession of who He is ~ that's what saves us, not our doctrinal differences (reasonings).  No one knows everything about doctrinal truth.  We do our best; that's all we can do.

I believe Jesus is God, born of a virgin (God in the flesh) and that the Spirit of God was sent to indwell us that believe (because we are now made holy through the blood of Jesus Christ) and that same Spirit will raise us on the last day.

However that is explained (i.e. as "trinity") is difficult, but I truly believe the best I understand.

I don't yet understand your argument about hell, but will do some study on the word forever and eternal. Thanks for caring ~ I believe we're both caring about people's salvation.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Well, let's not let scripture get in the way of our belief on the trinity, shant we? I do not follow the teachings of any worldly church system so what do I care if certain denominations refute the trinity? Show me some scriptures. Otherwise, move on.

Are son and angel translated from the same word? Tell me, because I've never heard that they are the same thing. I've got E-Sword so check carefully.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

I'll address the son and angel issue in my next comment.  I've been studying on the forever and eternal challenge here.  Without doing a completely exhaustive study, this is what my conclusions are, and they still have room for more theological discussion.

There are two definitions for eternal/everlasting in the Old Testament.

Deuteronomy 33:27 "The eternal God is a dwelling place..." is #6924 from 6923 to precede, aforetime, anciently, forward, old, past (in front, East).

Isaiah 60:15 "I will make you an everlasting pride, a joy from generation to generation..." is #5769 concealed, vanishing point, out of mind (past or future), eternity, always, lasting (evermore, of old), perpetual, at any time, world without end.

I looked up all the scriptures you listed in your hub.  All but two are dealing with physical ages (generations) regarding those "who are passing away".

Luke 18:30 and Ephesians 2:7 have to do with the "age(s) to come, eternal life" which is the Greek definition #166:

Eternal: 166 perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).  From 165 an age; by extens. Perpetuity (also past); by impl. The world; spec. (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):-age, course, eternal (for) ever (-more) [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end).  From 104 continued duration; “ever,” by qualification regularly; by impl. Earnestly:-always, ever.

"Eternal and Everlasting" usage in regard to Hell:

In all the Biblical scriptures defining Hell as being an eternal place of torment, the words "eternal" and "everlasting" are simply in the actual definition of Hell used throughout the New Testament, not in the verses themselves.

The only definition of Hell used in the Old Testament was #7585: She-owl (sheh-ole’) meaning hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates: grave, hell, pit.

The New Testament consists of three words for HELL: #1067: geenna (gheh’-en-nah) used as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell; #86: hades (hah’-dace) “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell; and #5020: tartaroo (tar-tar-o’-o) the deepest abyss of Hades; to incarcerate in eternal torment: - cast down to hell.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Hmmm. Surprising study for me after all these years (I had met with Jehovah's Witnesses with an open mind back in my 20's).  In Genesis 6 there is a traditional "Christian" teaching that the "sons of God" were angels that mated with women bringing forth giants.  Here's a website that addresses these teachings: http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c036.htm... 

It's also been taught that the "sons of God" mentioned in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 were fallen angels because it states that "Satan was among them".

I've always believed that angels are sexless and do not procreate.  They are not human and there is no marriage in heaven (Matthew 22:30).  All angels in the Bible appeared in male form, however... (so female images of angels do not support Biblical facts). 

However, in my word study, all these scriptures have only one Hebrew definition: #1121 A son (as a builder of the family name), in the widest sense (of lit. and fig. relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc.).  There is no connection to the word "angel" or its definition to make these similar in the least.

In Exodus 3:2 where the angel of the LORD (the angel of Jehovah) spoke to Moses in the burning bush, the definition does not connect this "angel" to Jesus in any way.  "Angel" does indeed translate as "messenger of God" (Hebrew #4397), but it does not mean this "angel" was the word of God, or "Jesus".

I see NO CORRELATION here and therefore, I do not believe angels are called sons anywhere in the Bible and Jesus is therefore NOT an angel.

I'm really glad you asked me about this because now I am corrected!  I truly seek the truth and that's why I learned to do this inductive study on my own.  There's way too many "winds of doctrine" out there, and frankly, that's why so many people want nothing to do with finding a "truth".  It's simply too hard to find!!

KISS (Keep it Simple, S***id).  Have faith in God, His Son, acknowledge His Spirit.  Ask Jesus into our hearts (I know the real Jesus will hear).  We only know in part, as 1 Cor. 13 states, and we won't know everything until we see Jesus face to face.  LOVE ONE ANOTHER (that is the greatest commandment), and I hope you see here, Hell NO, that we have cared enough about each other as perfect strangers to take the time to discuss and study these important issues.  We both care about false doctrines flooding the world; that's the common ground.  AMEN.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

First Carrie, there is no eternal or forever in the scriptures.  Did'nt you read what I said about Justinian calling a councel in 540 to make the words aion and aions = endless ages?  Maybe you don't realize this but there was no word prior to the 2nd century, for eternal.  Every single work of the Greek Philosphers that used these terms never meant them as forever.  You would do well to thouroghly read through what I have.  Even if you feel that parts are merely speculation, you can't argue with the context of the word aion used in scripture.  It can never mean forever.  By the way, Sheol and Hades are never a physical holding cell or eternal torture chamber.  It's the unseen realm of the dead, where there is no thought.

If you have any thoughts that I am nitpicking, I would like to remind you of something.  There is no love concerning a place of eternal torture.  The chosen of God are only able to love the world because they know that the evil of this world is only a temporary condition  that will be made Christ like in time.  My hubs (while based on the work of another) thoroughly destroy that hell doctrine.  But the truth is, is there is no room for that belief system in relation to a loving God.  I know that it is God who works in us to open our eyes to His truths, but the hell teaching is evil beyond comparison and my only agenda with these articles is to show that it ain't so.  May God lead you to more fruitful studies of scripture.  


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

I'd like to believe you, and believe me ~ I'd be relieved to find out there is no hell.  I will continue my studies, but using the concordance and the English words used to define the Hebrew and Greek, it appears there is a hell.  I wish we absolutely knew, but faith is not knowing everything for sure, is it?  We are saved by faith in Jesus Christ.  That's really all that matters, and that we love God with all our hearts and love our neighbors as we love ourselves.  I can settle with that one ~~ sigh....KISS


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

You want relief? Go to bible-truths.com. Just remember, the modern dictionairies and such make their money off of church goers. You need to dig deeper than works inspired by the worldly synogogues.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

The tools that I use are the Holy Bible (KJV) and (NAS), the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, a Bible Dictionary, and cross referencing. I was shocked to see the angel/son teaching as false in my actual study. I'll check out your study tool and simply see where it's based out of (some particular religion?) We are all at the mercy of our study tools. It's horrible that even the creators of such things might have an ulterior agenda to mislead people. That's a sad truth, I think.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Who says they have an ulterior motive?  They are deceived just like the world.  Understanding of the scriptures is a gift from God and all of the studying in the world is futile if God isn't ready to reveal the truth to you.  I believe Ray at Bible-truths (not some religion) has been given sight.  He compares scriptures better than anyone I've ever come across.  I just wrote an article about the church system.  I got it all through Ray's studies.  I feel the truth is self evident.  By the way, you may want to try a Concordant literal translation. It doesn't flow like the KJ but you won't see the words hell or eternal in it. Good luck in your search.


Ivan the Terrible profile image

Ivan the Terrible 7 years ago from Madrid

Very interesting discussion here. As one who does not believe I am always intrigued how people can go back and forth about this subject. I realize it means a lot to you both so I will leave my doubting views out of the discussion. Suffice to say that I agree there have been many mistranslations as well as outright omissions in the bible we read today. As I said I am not a believer but I have read the KJ because I enjoy the prose of it, not because I find any great and fundamental religious truth to it. Just the same, as with most religious books, there are some basic human truths and morals to be gleaned from it.

Nice hub.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Yes, religion and interpretation is a fascinating arena. I often wondered what to believe, as I couldn't stand thinking the majority of the world is WRONG. Why can't we all just get along ~ as Cinderella says (lol). It's good we search to know a truth, wherever it is. I wonder if we won't all know the absolute truth until the Truth shows itself. I agree with Hell No in the sense that only God can reveal His truth. I hope I am graced enough by Him to be enlightened. Please, Lord ~ please. Thank you for helping all of the readers, and I'm doing my best to do the same. Help myself, first...how can we help someone else if we haven't helped ourselves first? In humbleness ~ Carrie


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Hey, Hell No ~ I'm requesting a study by YOU now.  Please explain John 3:16.  What is the wage of sin being death?  What is that death? What is "eternal" life?  Also, explain why we need a Savior (Jesus) ~ to save us from what?  And also, please explain the resurrection or rapture of "being caught up to meet Him in the air"/being "raised from the dead" ~ if there's no life after death, or if there is, is it then temporary as here on earth?  Do we die over and over again?  Do you believe in reincarnation or something?  Please take some time to answer these questions for me.  Thanks; sincerely.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

I'll do my best Carrie. Death is necessarry for life. This death in John 3:16 is speaking of the death of sin. The death of sin takes place through judgment either in this life or the next. Now, nobody will die to sin in this life but a select few will be at a point where sin doesn't have dominion over them. Notice all of the death commanded by God in the OT. That physical death was a type of the spiritual death that takes place through Christ. Judgment is not a bad thing as the churches have taught.

Eternal life is aionios life. This speaks of the Kingdom Age under Christ following ressurrection. It is when the righteous (very few) are raised to life with Christ. They will rule along with Christ and judge those not found in the Book of Life. Christ is only going to rule until "all enimies have been put under His feet". He then will turn the kingdom over to the Father. By then, there will be no more enemies of Christ or the Father. All sins will be repented of by then. Even Handel's "Messiah" is wrong about this one. Christ will not reign forever and ever. He will reign until "all enemies have been put under His feet". At that point, the scriptures say that man will be given immortality, not eternal life (nitpicking little details lost in the church).

Isaiah 26:9

When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the WORLD WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS. (that means everybody)

Jesus came to save the world. He came to reveal the Father in Heaven. He came to offer Himself as the ultimate sacrifice to fulfill all of the OT sacrifices that God (Christ is God of the OT) required for the forgiveness of sin. Christ's death on the cross is type and shadow for all of the lambs and such sacrificed in the OT. It is a sign that all sins of past, present, and future have been forgiven by God. It does not take sin away, however. That happens through judgment and repentence.

As far as being caught up in the air? Well, I suppose this is spiritually talking about the resurrection of Saints. I'm not sure if the lost are ressurected to judgment also at this point, or if it happens at a later time. What I'm sure of, is there won't be the colosal wrecks all over the highways from millions of people disappearing from behind the wheel and stuff. There wouldn't be that many dissapearing anyway.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

You stated "the death of sin takes place through judgment either in this life or the next".  Hebrews 9:27 states, "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment..."

You stated "nobody will die to sin in this life".  Let's look at Acts 5:1-6 where Ananias lied and was struck dead right there.

You state that man will be given immortality ~ does that not mean he will no longer die?  Isn't it logical then to state this is eternal life?

You also stated, "What I'm sure of, is there won't be the colosal wrecks all over the highways from millions of people disappearing from behind the wheel and stuff."  All I know is in Luke 17:34-36, the Bible states, "I tell you, on that night there will be two men in one bed; one will be taken, and the other will be left.  There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken, and the other will be left. ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.:].

You've stated that not many will be resurrected to rule with Christ.  Different religions claim it will be 144,000 and believe those "saints" are of their church.  Unfortunately, some churches tell their members that the 144,000 have already be chosen and everyone else needs to just realize they will be ruled over upon the face of the new earth.

If salvation isn't obtained by works (Ephesians 2:8-9), why would God choose His "favorites" according to their works?  It's estimated that roughly one-third of the religious population claim Jesus as God (Christianity).  The Word says we are all saints and heirs of God when we are saved through Jesus Christ.

Who is to judge who those "favorites"/"elect"/144,000 will be?  Certainly not humans or churches!!

I believe there is a "judgment" sending non-believers away from God (the same word as condemnation), and there is a "judgment" rewarding believers for the works accomplished here on earth (crowns awarded in heaven that will be placed at Jesus' feet by the saints).  Two different types of judgement.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

I'll say it again. There is no word for eternal in the scriptures or during the day they were written. To say that man will be given immortality does not mean that the word translated eternal is correct. Immortality means that one will never die. If you think two men in one bed is literal language then apparently you believe god is in favor of homo sexuality. Not sure where I said people aren't saved through works. People are saved through Christ but those in Christ do good works. There is type and shaddow in the NT as well. Afterall, people are not struck dead today that I know of, for sin. Dieing to sin has nothing to do with physical death anyway. You don't know what you're arguing about.

Again, I give less than a rip about what different churches teach. I go by God's word and no institution of church seems to know much about that. The scriptures teach that all will be saved. If you don't believe this yet, then that's between you and God or god if you choose to continue in the blindness of organized religion.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Yes, I wondered about the two men in bed (but Man in the Bible often means man and woman) ~ who knows? I did notice, however, that at times you do rely on the "definition" of a word, then other times you deny the definition of a word. I'm not saying that with hostility, but just an observation.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Every word has a definition. Spiritual applications require one to identify meanings by comparing entire scriptures to other scriptures. Fire has a physical meaning and a spiritual meaning. So does brimstone. That reminds me. That physical brimstone in the LOF must really make the pain more severe hugh? Either that or it's spiritual brimstone.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Well, to sum up what I think you're saying about a spiritual LOF (Lake of Fire for those reading this hub/comment) is that the living must be the ones to experience a spiritual LOF by not accepting Christ, because to be dead is to be in the ground corrupting, being in a state of nothingness with no thought or feeling.  The immortality must be for those who follow Christ; therefore, those who are immortal will not feel this spiritual LOF, correct?  So, if the LOF is spiritual and affects the living that have rejected Christ, I have some scriptures here to refute that one (even look at the rich man and Lazarus ~ the rich man received his goodness on earth, and Lazarus received his goodness in the after-life):

Job 12:6 The tabernacles of robbers prosper, and they that provoke God are secure; into whose hand God bringeth abundantly. Psalm 73:3-7, 12 When I saw the prosperity of the wicked .... They have more than heart could wish .... Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches. Jeremiah 12:1 Wherefore doth the way of the wicked prosper? wherefore are all they happy that deal very treacherously.

Satan is the god of this world.  God says we cannot serve two masters: God and mammon (money).  Because evil prospers, our whole world is in financial upheaval.  If anyone is suffering a "spritual hell", it's Christians.  Jesus said the world will hate us, and that anyone who loves this life will lose it (death/hell) and those who endure for Christ's sake (or hate this life) will SAVE it (life/heaven).

As I said before, if you are a Christian in this world today, this is truly the most hell you will ever see (Jesus was our example); and if you are an evil-doer in this world today that rejects Christ and His forgiveness, this world is the most heaven you will ever see.  AMEN.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

For something to be spiritual, that something must be scripural. And hell ain't scriptural. Nobody is suffering in a hell on Earth, in Earth, on top of Earth, no where. Those who are Christ's suffer tribulation on Earth. I don't follow half of what you say when you think you're summing up what I say. Every human that has ever died is still dead. This will continue until the ressurection. Then those in Christ will be given immortality and those in judgment will have to learn how to be Christ like. I noticed that you still think that the LOF is something that we feel (as in high shooting flames burning our insides out causing severe undieing pain). The LOF is probably more accuratelly defined as Christ and His Chosen Elect. It will be tormenting to show us our faults and to spiritually burn out the dross that keeps us from living righteously.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

So then the evil ones that reject Christ will be tormented by being shown our faults and get spiritually burned out by the dross that keeps us from living righteously? I wonder why evil is not convicted of this to date? You're saying this will happen when when ALL are resurrected? Well, if that spiritual torment brings all to repentance, why would it be different then if it's not tormenting those who reject Christ now? Just a thought.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

God chooses to do it this way. But remember, those who are tormented in the LOF think they know the truth now. Some feel that there is no God and others are just plain wrong about him. I guarantee that no Christian will be very willing to give up their false doctrines. The one's judged now are doing just that.


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jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

We are not at the mercy of our study tools. We are ALL at the mercy of God's will being done through us.

Learn something important and profound: Whenever someone tries to teach you a doctrine that is UNscriptural, he/she will always be forced to use words that are UNscriptural.

First of all, nowhere in the Scriptures is God referred to or called a "trinity."

Second, the word "three" is never used in reference to Who or What God is.

Third, God is never called or referred to as "a person."

Four, the holy spirit is never called "God."

Five, since Christ is the Son, He cannot also be the Father or be coequal with His Father. Christ plainly said:

"My Father is GREATER than I" (John 14:28).

The holy spirit is never called God, God is never referred to as a trinity or a person or consisting of three, and Christ is the Son of the Father, YET this mysterious doctrine is believed by millions. Why?

Let’s see if the thousand page Hastings Dictionary of the Bible can help us.

Page 1015: TRINITY--The Christian doctrine of God as existing in three Persons and one Substance IS NOT DEMONSTRABLE BY LOGIC or SCRIPTURAL PROOF..." (Emphasis mine).

What an admission. But (I surely don’t want to leave out the "but"), but, we are told that it is, "...a NECESSARY HYPOTHESIS, ABOVE REASON but not contrary to it" (Emphasis mine again). Yah, right. That’s like saying square circles are "above reason but not contrary to it."

"God is SPIRIT, and those who are worshiping Him must be worshiping in spirit and truth" (John 4:24)

Spirit has nothing to do with "substance." In the original Greek, God is called "spirit," not "a spirit."

The existence of a trinity is admittedly not demonstrable by logic or scriptural proof, however, it is called a "necessary hypothesis." Being the inquisitive person that I am, I would inquire as to just why is it a "necessary hypothesis"? Why hypothesize at all, seeing that the Scriptures give us plain, factual, actual information without having to theorize or hypothesize? Let’s get a definition of that word "hypothesis:"

Webster’s Dictionary, hypothesis, a system or theory imagined or assumed to account for what is not understood. An unproved theory. theory, a speculative plan... a formulation of underlying principles of certain observed phenomena which has been verified to some degree... a conjecture; guess.

Who can count the number of man’s theories that have been proven wrong? I will not base my salvation on a theologian’s hypothesis or theory. The doctrine of the trinity is at best a hypothesis, for it has not advanced with any Scriptural proofs which could elevate the trinity conjecture to even a theory.

Do you not think it strange that the most spiritual and fundamental doctrine of all Christianity does not even qualify for the status of theory let alone doctrinal truth? Amazing.

So the trinity is called a hypothesis--a human invention of speculations, conjectures, guesses, theories, imaginings, and assumptions of something that is not understood.

Notice what Paul instructs those who would teach God’s Word:

"For if a trumpet, also, should be giving a dubious sound, who will be preparing for battle? THUS, YOU ALSO, if you should not be giving an INTELLIGIBLE expression through the language, HOW WILL IT BE KNOWN WHAT IS BEING SPOKEN?"

Does this verse need any comment? God also warns against ...

"Adding to" or "taking away from" His Word (Rev. 22:18-10)

We are to rightly "divide" God’s Word (II Tim. 2:15-18)

We are to "...distinguish the things that DIFFER" (Phil. 1:10)

We are to have a "PATTERN OF SOUND WORDS" (II Tim. 1:13-14)

Also, we are to shun the "TRADITIONS OF MEN" (Col. 2:8)

and the "WISDOM OF THIS WORLD" (I Cor. 1:20 & 3:19)

If the above theologian and most theologians throughout the world including most clergymen would follow God’s instructions on teaching, there would be millions fewer religious books. And for sure, there would not be millions and millions of words devoted to the futile exercise of trying to prove the one plus one plus one equals ONE trinity of God theory.

Amazingly, even though the doctrine of the trinity is conceded by theologians themselves to be a "hypothesis" that is "illogical," (to which we can now also add "paradoxical"), and let us not forget the most important of all, "non scriptural," one can nonetheless find himself ridiculed and ostracized for not paying homage to this Christian idol of the heart.

I will give just one example "Doctrine of the Trinity" By Dr. Ed DeVries, President of the School of Biblical & Theological Studies. His first paragraph makes the following statements:

"Since the word Trinity IS NOT FOUND ANYWHERE IN THE RECEIVED TEXT or in its offspring (the Authorized Version and other biblical translations derived from the received text), many argue that the doctrine of the Trinity is NOT A BIBLICAL ONE. However, when a person comes to understand the THEORY [yes dear readers, we are back to that word "theory" again] that is embodied in the terminology they can NOT HELP BUT FIND PROOF OF THE TRINITY THROUGHOUT THE BIBLE. The doctrine of the Trinity is believed by ALL Christian groups. Some groups profess to be Christian and DO NOT believe in the Trinity, however, NONE OF THESE GROUPS ARE TRULY CHRISTIAN..." (Emphasis mine--of course).

Did you get all that? Notice that in order to "find PROOF of the trinity THROUGHOUT the Bible," all one has to do is come to "understand the THEORY that is EMBODIED in the TERMINOLOGY."

What am I missing? Why does my brain not work like that? Am I an intellectual dunce? I’ll tell you the way my brain works. If I wanted to "find proof of the trinity throughout the Bible," I would not first try to come to "understand the theory that is embodied in the terminology." No, I’m sorry, but I would not do that.

Here is what I would do if I wanted to "find proof of the trinity throughout the Bible," I would... LOOK IN THE BIBLE!!! That’s what I would do. But, I have already done that, and the trinity ‘ain’t’ there! And that my friends are why we are told to we must "understand the THEORY that is EMBODIED in the TERMINOLOGY."

Please understand and believe me when I say that I am not poking fun directly at such teachers as this. I am not, but I am poking fun at their stupid, stupid teachings! God inspired the proverb that teaches us to:

"Answer a fool according to a fool," and to "...expose those who contradict" (Titus 1:9, Concordant Literal New Testament).

There is no reason to debate with a person who refuses to believe the Word of God. There are parables given by Jesus which explain why a person believes the many falsehoods regarding God's Word... it's because whenever the truth is given, Satan (who dines on the dust of mankind per God's command) is always there to take away God's Word which causes the person to not understand and/or believe.

(Courtesy of Bible-Truths.com)


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Hey Hell-boy (said respectfully, of course) ~ I have a question for you. Since you believe there is no "eternity" as in "forever", WHY in your beliefs do ALL, including Satan and his angels get purified? Purified for what? Death? There is no afterlife? or is there? Or are you implying a few end up living immortally for generations and ages and ages, then die again? What's the deal?


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

You know, I'm really trying to understand clearly what it is you believe about the resurrection and after-life.  I see we've already addressed my previous question, which I asked you in the earlier comments above.  I will attempt to restate your answers to me below:

You stated, "Those who are Christ's suffer tribulation on Earth.  Every human that has ever died is still dead. This will continue until the ressurection. Then those in Christ will be given immortality and those in judgment will have to learn how to be Christ like.  The LOF is probably more accuratelly defined as Christ and His Chosen Elect. It will be tormenting to show us our faults and to spiritually burn out the dross that keeps us from living righteously."

So you believe ALL are resurrected and some will be tormented by Christ and His Elect?  Are there others besides the Elect that are immortal "In Christ?" (not being tormented)?  Who do you say the Elect are?

And, to be clear, you would rather churches utilize the word "immortality" rather than "eternal", "forever and ever", and "everlasting", right? Christians DO believe ALL will be immortal (which means to never die again).  At least we agree on that concept.

The clencher question I have is this: since Jesus died and SAVED (FORGAVE)the WHOLE world, as you teach, how could ANY unrighteousness be evident in the after-life?  He says He casts our sin as far as the east is from the west and remembers them no more.

Will those tormented (chastened) unto righteousness by the Elect ever obtain it?  If so, what then?  They get to join the Elect in tormenting the rest?

I just need some more clarification, please. Thank you.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Boy, you're really stuck on this eternity and forever thing. Let me say this one last time. Where ever your bible mentions the words forever or eternity, it is speaking of ages or a period of time. I never said there is no such thing as eternity and I never said we wouldn't live forever. I said those English translations for the words aion, aions and aionios are incorrect. This is typical of church folk. They can be mature human beings with reasonable intellect and their misunderstandings of scripture are like the misunderstandings a todler has about the proper method of making stool. It's an easy concept. Those words translated forever or eternal were put there to protect an evil doctrine. I did say that there was no word for eternal or forever before the 2nd century. Perhaps you think I said this is still so. Amazing!!

I would assume that those who have gone through judgment and repented will be a part of the purification process. As far as what I think the church should do? Repent!! And teach sound doctrine.

As far as Christ casting our sins away, He's speaking of those who are the elect and have repented. By the way, forgiving and saving are not one and the same. We have been forgiven of our sins but have not been saved yet. That takes repentance. Which takes the gifts of the holy spirit.


no body profile image

no body 7 years ago from Rochester, New York

Hey this is "No Clue" again. It is amazing how close your doctrine is to my old alma mater, the Jehovah's Witnesses. Is there any shared history there? Do you have many converts from the Witnesses? It's facinating "listening" to the reasoning. Carrie's doing such a fine job speaking our "side of the issue". I pray that there are lots of folks following along because I imagine they are getting the best of both worlds. I know in my heart that Carrie's words will go far.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Carrie is doing a fine job ministering the deception to the clueless. As Jaccobsladder said in another hub, you people have way more in common with Jehova's Witnesses than we do. I know little about their theology. What I know is they teach annihilation. The scriptures teach universal salvation. They teach that the world becomes embalmed in some physical fire that destroys all of the lost forever. The scriptures speak of spiritual fire and brimstone burning out the dross and purfifying the sinner. Why don't I know more about them? Because I don't give a crap what they believe. They are a cult just like your church.

By the way, people from all of the major religions of Babylon the Great have left those church buildings and learned truth, including your alma mater


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

But, HellNo, you didn't answer my questions about who you say the Elect are, and what happens to those being tormented by the Elect upon repentance ~ do they join the Elect in tormenting the rest?  And does this go on for ever (immortal)?


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

I have yet another thing to say (does it ever stop? "HELL-NO"): First of all, righteousness being learned is regarding works.  Ephesians 2:8-9 says we are not SAVED (made the righteousness of God [2 Cor 5:21] by works).  Our rightesousness is as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).  We must be born again in order to inherit the Kingdom of God (John 3:1-7) .  We must be covered by the blood of Jesus, the Lamb.  The wicked that were shown favor here are the Jews, God's chosen ones of whom many are the Elect (the first-fruits who receive Jesus Christ as their Messiah).  He spared them over and over again though they continued in evil pagan worship and the like, and were stuck in the traditions of their church so much so they judged Jesus for healing a man on the Sabbath (Mark 3:1-6). They, too felt their salvation was through WORKS.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

I've answered your questions over and over. What's obvious is you think you are setting some kind of carnal trap for me. You're ridiculous. Where have I hinted that judgment lasts forever? I haven't. You're just blind. The elect are the chosen few during this age. If those in the LOF repent, then they obviously will join the elect. The elect are the one's doing good works for the lost. The works of the lost are worthless. People are saved through the purifying fires of God. I can't tell you how dumb you sound. Are you? The Jewish nation was a symbol for the spiritual Jew, or elect. They were to inherit the Kingdom but the "first became the last". Sorry you don't get it. You better read everything again because you don't know what you're talking about and neither do I know what you're talking about.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Okay ~ just wanted your answers here.  Thanks.


Buddy 7 years ago

So is the rich man able to cross the great divide now after all these years to go and join Lazarus in Abraham's Bosom. I'm sure that he was really sorry for not treating Lazarus well while he was on earth. Hmm. How is it that he was even cognizant if he was Dead and the dead know nothing at all? And Why was he so incredibly thirsty?


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Yes, Buddy, AMEN. This may be a "parable", but Jesus told parables so people could understand what goes on in the heavenly places! This rich man is in Hades (thus my hub on HELL) and there is no choice after death. That's why it was so urgent a request by the rich man that his family find out the truth before it's too late!


no body profile image

no body 7 years ago from Rochester, New York

That's right Carrie. I believe that this is not a parable because proper names are never used in parables. In Ecclesiastes especially the perspective of physical man is used. There is thought and regret in hell, Satan's final home.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Hey No Clue, go to my hub on that "parable".

Hades means unseen. It is the Greek version of Sheol which the King James translators in their infinate wisdom, translated into hell 31 times and grave 31 times.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Hades is unseen by the living! Keep it in context. Hades is located in an unseen dimension...concealed.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

There is no thought or experience in Hades. Without the resurrection you will remain dead with no thought. Do you ever wonder what Lazarus had to say about this realm after Christ ressurected him? Don't bother, he had none.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Well, he certainly didn't get purified into heaven!


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Very good Carrie. With your understanding, perhaps now you are ready to finger paint your name with your own feces.


Buddy 7 years ago

So Hell No, Is it your conclusion that I can go on sinning with no recource or penalty. That there is no judgement and I can have salvation even if I die without Christ. If there is no penalty for Sin why should I stop. Just because God hates sin? If there is no lasting penalty for it why should I care? I'm going to go Sin as much as I want now because you said there was no penalty for it. If I did my damnation would be deserved. Instead I will rest in Christ and the fact that He shed his blood so that my sins could be forgiven. Life everlasting is His promise to believers.

You said "People are saved through the purifying fires of God."

that is not true

People are save through the confession of what Christ has done for them, and believing in their heart that Christ has risen from the dead.

Romans 10:8-10

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.

6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking [1] and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

So in other words. ... . . . .you just want to go sin away because in your ignorance you think I said there is no penalty for sin? Where have I ever said that? What do you think judgment is? People are saved through confession and repenting of sins. God's judgment through fire makes this possible. You must first know what your sins are before you can feel remorse. And this judgment can be very tormenting. When did I say we can sin away without penalty. I didn't. You did. And you just told anyone reading this hub that you have no love for people or God because you want to just keep on sinning in hopes that you won't be held accountable. You don't even care if God hates sin. You're gonna do it as much as you can. But we know that you won't because you're afraid of your god's fabled hell. But what if you knew that there wasn't a hell to be barbacued in for eternity. Rather, what if you falsly believed that there would be no accountability or judgment for sinning against God. Well, we know the answer, and so does God. Your heart has been made manifest to everyone reading here. And God knew it before you ever logged on to the internet. May God help you with your evil desires of your wicked heart.


Buddy 7 years ago

Man you are confused


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Bingo!! That's what I've been saying. I'm very confused at the ridiculous and unscriptural doctrines of Christiandom. And I point out all of these truths so that a 13 year old can understand and churchies come back with bible verses that they fell contradict what I have or they make assinine comments like you did above. I am so confused by how people so blind can actually type.


Lucy Pher 7 years ago

I'm so confused about people waisting their time talking nonsense.

The Bible was written by men in aramee ( i'm french i don't know the word in english). Then it was translated to greek and then to english and other languages. in the meantime different current of christianity decided what was proper or not for people to read in the bible. So what you are discussing now is a lot of gibberish. there's no heaven or hell. don't be such ignorants!!!!!!and there's no god either. and, hell no ,why don't you show us who you are??!!!!!


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Arabic huh? Not so sure about that. . .. Well, they say they have found some bible codes in Arabic so who knows? It takes a spiritual mind to see that the scriptures couldn't have been made up. Just look at all of the misunderstandings of those without a lick of spirit. No, you won't see it, yet. And you say there is no god because???? You really believe a living cell could possibly put itself together? Those little tiny things. How complex can they be? They have no explanation for how proteins for life (only left handed amino acids for that task) come together so forget about the rest of the cell. Cells are so exponentially complex that no amount of time would suffice in their coming together. And macro evolution, based on thousands of useless mutations for one characteristic suitable for the major functions of creatures? And you call us ignorant? How did the universe form so perfectly? Remember, the Big Bang event had to be so perfectly fine tuned that changing one variable out of numbers exceeding a google, would render the universe unsuitable for life or even matter, above the level of hydrogen. Our sun? Perfect. Our solar system? Perfect. Our moon? Necessarry for human existence. .. .and perfect. And shall we again consider all of the elements of this planet that are required for our existence and all complex life? Naaa. You look it up. It's only science.

By the way, I have shown you who I am. . .... .Oh, I'm sorry. Do you really care what I look like? I am just a modest looking person. And besides, maybe I'm protecting a certain mystique about the person of Hell No. I could be anywhere. I could be right beside you at any time. Huahahahahahahaha!!


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

I would think you and Lucifer know each other very well....


jacobbsladdr profile image

jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

Do your research, you just said Hell No and a firefly know each other well.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Excuse me. I need to go blow a lucifer.


jacobbsladdr profile image

jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

It's always funny to see a "christian" resort to calling people of the devil when they have been shown truthful scriptures that blow their false doctrines to kingdom come.

Aye, the heart does deceive greatly. I for one am so very thankful that God has seen fit to call me to His truths. When you have an accurate knowledge of His truths, thee is no comparison. You truly look forward to learning more every day because God is Love and Love never fails, unlike "self professing christian's" love which is always conditional.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night."


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

. . . .and the hypocrate will blow the smoke from her bowels in protest to truth should the accuser of righteousness show the error of her obsession.

This comes from the Book of Hell No, Chapter 33 entitled "Self Righteous Indignation and Obsession is Proof of The Blind's Unwillingness To Throw Away False Doctrine". 

This is especially true of those who are so obsessed with another, that they spend their days checking to see what else has been written on another's hubs.  To this point I have written 12 hubs and one particular person was able to retort to another after a whopping 20 minutes.  That means this person is running through every hub I have written for every waking hour.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Comments addressed to me will be answered by me ~~ that's only right.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

But how did you know so quickly? Your obsession has been exposed again.


jacobbsladdr profile image

jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

What I have noticed is a consistent attempt to twist and contort what has been presented as accurate study of the Holy Scriptures. Saying a person said something they didn't say and claiming your "just trying to understand" and at the same time stating unscriptural doctrines that have been proven FALSE by countless theologians. Do I support theologians? No, but there are some who do honest study.

Carrie, I am not confused. It's clear that you don't have an accurate understanding of what has been presented here. Your condesending in your tone and attitude. You think you have some type of ability to trip someone up as if you will have an "AHA" moment. The scripture you have presented is inaccurate and incorrect. Now, do I know if you are purposely ignorant or just kindling the fire, I can't say. What I can say is that God is in control of ALL things, including this conversation.

Carrie do you understand the difference between physical and spiritual?

Do you understand the difference between something that is true and something that is not literally true?

Do you understand the definition of a parable. No Body's statement of " I believe that this is not a parable because proper names are never used in parables" is a false assumption. haha, it doesn't mater if real names are used in a parable or not. This is simply an uneducated person making an assumptino that isn't true. A Parable is a SPIRITUAL TRUTH using literal information. You, yourself claim "... Jesus told parables so people could understand what goes on in the heavenly places!" This is an outright LIE. Now I realize it's possible that you made that statement because you have been led to beleive it as fact but it is not correct.

I will try to break it down even further for you, in simple terms. Again, whether or not you understand is up to God.

God created Jesus.

God created the angels

God thru Jesus created the world

Jesus is God's Word. Jesus is God's voice

Jesus is the God referenced in the OT scriptures. Christ is "IAM"

God created Jesus as the Lamb BEFORE the foundations of the earth. Which means that God knew that Jesus would have to die to save us from our sins.

God created the Serpent/The Devil/Satan

God created the light, god created the darkness, God created the good and God created the evil.

God created Adam & Eve with a sinful nature & spiritual weak

Everything that is physically spoken of in the Scriptures has a higher spiritual meaning.

Christ emptied Himself of His glory in heaven to assume human form on earth as the utlimate sacrifice for our sins

Christ chose his elect & spoke to everyone in parables so that they WOULD NOT understand. Only for His Elect were the mysteries of Heaven to be made known. Christ does not change and his words are spirit.

Christ is still choosing His Elect. Since Christ is spirit, His words are spirit, He calls out His Elect from the Church which is Bablyon.

Christs elects understand spiritual truths that have been given to them by Christ, yet the multitudes (everyone else will NOT understand just like the Pharasees promoted the physical and not the spirutual and thus did not understand)

Everything in the physical is a shadow of the spiritual. You can not and will not understand this simple truth unless God has called you to understand.

God, Christ & the Holy Spirit are not 1 in the same. Christ is not the son of the Holy Spirit. That is a false doctrine and unscriptural.

No one dies and goes to a heaven or a hell. You die and know nothing.

The Elect that have been called since Christ walked the earth are still being called and choosen. They will continue to be choosen until Christ has all of his Elect. God causes The Elect to ask to be judged in their own life, while alive on earth. The Elect do die and will sleep. However there will be some alive on the earth at Christs return. When this happens they too will "die" & be given spiritual bodies along with the reserrected Elect. This is the 1st resurrection. ONLY the ELECT are in the 1st resurrection. You and many other religions confuse this with the rapture.

EVERYONE ELSE who is NOT the ELect will be ressurected to judgement.

Everyone else will be put in the LOF to have their carnal hearts burned away. Since everyone is dead and in the spirit, this fire is also spiritual fire. It is God and His Elect. This is judgement. It will not be pleasant for those experiencing it BUT it will not be HELL. The Scriptures give physical examples of this process and the scriptures give spiritual examples of this process. This will all happen during Christs reign.

Once everyone has been judged and purified/repented of their sins in the LOF, Christ will throw the devil and his messengers in the LOF. They too will be made to repent of their ways. Then Christ will abolish death.

Then Christ will turn over His Kingdom to His Father and all will be one w/God. We will all be Sons and daughters of God. We will be like Christ. Everyone will be members of the same family.

There is a order in whic hthis all happens. God is not called the law giver for no reason. God gives His Elect these spiritual truths now while they live. You can not understand these spiritual truths unless God has called for you to understand them.

It pleases God to have false religions and false prphets for a time. It is needful to His plan in creating sons and daughters in His image.

Only the Elect can understand because only the Elect have been called to understand. They will be hated for their knowledge as the diciples were.

There is no actual physical 2 witneses on the earth in sackcloth preaching and causing rain and killed by the anti-christ and then ressurected. This is a spiritual truth and one which you do not understand. The anti-christ is in each and every person that walks the earth who thinks they can do as they wish independent of God. Each of us are God's temple. We set ourselves up in God's temple and assume His position over ourselves, thinking we can do as we please without a need for God. We call ourselves God. This is the beast within us all. When you beleive this truth, the beast will rise up out of the sea of humanity spoken of in Rev. Revelations is purely symbolic and spiritual. It is NOT literally true. It is for the Elect explaining to them the process in which they must go thru in order to be the Elect. Revelations is a re-cap if you will of the entire Bible. The entire Bible is one giant parable of spiritual truth for the ELECT ONLY.

Now, whether or not you want to beleive this, is not up to you. It's up to God to open your eyes and ears. You can call me of the devil all you want. you can curse me and rebuke me. You have no power over me. God has all the power and God's will IS DONE. Praise His Name!


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

The count down has begun. Carrie will answer nnnnnnnnnn. . . . . .


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

Yes, the Spirit of God is long-suffering.  I don't know who has the patience to read these terribly lengthy comments, as they should be hubs in themselves, JL.  So, as not to be wordy, I have attempted to number your statements/paragraphs starting with "God created Jesus" as Statment #1.  1-4 is truth.  7-8 is truth.  10-11 is truth.  13 confirms what I said about the parables spoken to those who could not understand heavenly things.  For this reason, Jesus had to use "physical"-type parables to help them to understand.  His disciples did not need to be spoken to in parables.  #14 is truth.  18, 21 and 24 are truth.  The rest is error.

We are held accountable for our teaching, JL (you and yours).  James 3:1 states "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we shall incur a stricter judgment."  AMEN.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Now!!


jacobbsladdr profile image

jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

Carrie,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my posting.  Not everyone is blessed by God to have the ability of writing prose.  You ask simple questions that cannot be answered simply.  I should think anyone who has a desire to know and understand the Scriptures would be hungry for knowledge.  I know that I am hungry for truthful study/research and knowledge and the fruits that come from honest study.  When you do not do honest study or a study that is not comprehensive as much of Christianity is guilty of, then you will consistently come up with false doctrines.

It is very true we are held accountable for our teachings, which is why I use the Holy Scriptures and do not follow the words of a Priest, Pastor or Cleric.  Now you may be inclined to say that I am a follower of Ray Smith.  That would be a misconception.  I am not a follower of Ray Smith, however we do share the same understandings that have been given to us by God.

Like Ray Smith, I do not belong or promote ANY man-made religion.  I belong to the Body of Christ.  We are required to do our own study and search out God’s treasures on our own.  Being a member of the Elect is the HIGHEST CALLING.  I do not expect anyone who is a member of a physical church to understand the Holy Scriptures just as I did not understand them while I was in the Church.  It is only when you have been called out by God that you are given understanding to continue in the search for wisdom and knowledge, that only God can provide.

Your posted statement “His disciples did not need to be spoken to in parables” is FALSE.  That is NOT true. Stating the rest of my statement is false is also incorrect. You have not been blessed by God to have the eyes and ears to see and hear.

I honestly don’t know if you are even studying the Scriptures when you say such things.  I don’t say that to be mean but the things you present that are so blatantly not true & proved by the Scriptures is astounding.  This belief is incorrect.  In fact the disciples did not even know what the parables meant and insistently asked Christ to explain the parables to them which He did in private.  Every parable, the disciples asked Christ to explain it to them and He did in private with ANOTHER PARABLE.

We need to pay strict attention to the Words of God.  They are precise and pure (in the original manuscripts), but you just refuse to believe what you read. We always need to be aware that although the translators may have had good intentions, not every word has been translated truthfully or with the mind of Christ.  But we do know that this is needful according to God’s plan.  Just because God says to not add or take away from His word doesn’t mean that it is not part of His plan that people do add and take away from His Word.  God is always in control.  Man cannot do anything against God’s will.

Jesus only taught to the multitudes IN PARABLES.  Nothing else, just PARABLES.  But do you believe that?  The reality is, by not understanding spiritual things, the accusers like yourself are guilty of MATERIALIZING AWAY the Scriptures!

It is the physical that passes away.  Only the Spiritual is eternal.  And so it is impossible to spiritualize "away" anything, because once something is spiritual it is eternal and never goes away.

Without knowing what the symbols represent in a parable, no one can/could ever understand the higher meaning.  Therefore, the multitudes of people did not understand the teaching of Christ, because He did not explain the meaning of the symbols to the masses, only to His disciples in private.

"ALL these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spake He NOT unto them" (Matt. 13:34).

"Another parable spoke He unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."

"Then comes the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power … that GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL" (I Cor. 15:24 & 28b). Then the whole lump will be leavened with God!  Everyone means ALL.  This parable is not literal.  The kingdom of God is not literally "leaven in a lump of dough!  These teachings are SPIRITUAL.  They teach GREAT SPIRITUAL TRUTHS.  Every parable teaches a spiritual truth.  Unless you understand the parable of the leaven and the dough, you don’t understand the gospel. Because the leaven in the dough is like the kingdom of God and Jesus came preaching the "GOSPEL" OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD! You see, if the leaven does NOT leaven the WHOLE lump, then it is NOT "like the kingdom of God." Anything that does not involve the whole (everyone) cannot be "like" the kingdom of God. For anything to be "like" the kingdom of God it must involve the whole, the all, everyone, all mankind.

Christ spoke in parables only so that the multitudes would not and could not understand his words!   False prophets state that Christ taught in parables so that the people could and would understand and perceive, and therefore could repent and be healed.

In other words, it would mean that Christ came to contradict and nullify Isaiah’s prophecy!  But no, Christ came to "fulfill" the prophecies, not MAKE VOID and NULLIFY the prophecies.  Listen to His own words: "Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to THEM it is NOT GIVEN" (Matt. 13:11).

Now then was it "given" or "NOT given" to the multitudes to "know the mysteries of the kingdom"? That’s right, it was NOT given.

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing SEE NOT; and hearing they HEAR NOT, neither do they UNDERSTAND. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye [’ye’ means everyone—all of you, not just the singular ‘you’] shall hear, and shall NOT understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall NOT perceive: For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be CONVERTED AND I SHOULD HEAL THEM. But blessed are your eyes [the disciples’ only] for THEY SEE: and your ears, for THEY HEAR" (Matt. 13:13-16).

Jesus then explains the parable to His disciples only, "Hear ye [all of the disciples only] therefore the parable of the sower" (Ver. 18).

Jesus had just told the multitude this parable of the sower and his disciples heard it also, but neither group understood the parable, so He turned to His disciples in PRIVATE and instructed them in the meaning of this parable.

"ANOTHER parable put He [Jesus] forth unto them..." (Matt. 13:24)

"ANOTHER parable put He forth unto them..." (Ver. 31).

"ANOTHER parable spake He unto them..." (Ver. 33).

"ALL these things spake Jesus unto the MULTITUDES IN PARABLES; and without a parable spake He NOT unto them: That it might be fulfilled [FULFILLED, not NULLIFIED] which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open My mouth in PARABLES; I will utter these things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. Then Jesus sent the multitude AWAY, and went into the house: and His disciples came unto Him, saying, DECLARE UNTO US the parable of the tares of the field. He said and answered unto them [the disciples only] ..." (Matt. 13:34-37).

Not only the multitudes, but the apostles and disciples also did not understand Christ’s teachings. They had to be instructed in private. And yet ... and YET, we are told continually like a broken record that the whole Bible must be taken LITERALLY. What is NOT literal cannot be taken LITERALLY. How hard can this be? A parable is still a parable (that is, figurative and/or symbolic words and language which point to a higher spiritual truth than the words themselves portray) even if the words themselves sound like they could be taken literally. The Scriptures say that Christ spoke to the multitudes in parables ONLY. We should stop fighting the Scriptures and believe Him.

"To him that has an ear to hear, let him hear" is the declaration throughout t


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

JL, Jesus EXPLAINED the parables to the disciples, just as the angels do in the book of Revelation. Some things are clear, some remain symbolic. We are not to understand EVERYTHING now, as 1 Cor 13 states. Just as Jesus was able to bring understanding to the apostles, at least in the matter of salvation and the gospel of Jesus Christ, so He has done with those who are saved, the elect (read my hub Who Are God's Elect). To add or to take away from the Bible is incorrect. These words pertain to the book of Revelation only. I do not believe ALL will be saved and have refuted this doctrine and will continue to refute this doctrine. You are pulling portions of scripture without taking the whole of even the very passages you quote. I've explained this as well, which you read. We will not agree on this issue.

We see that the god of this world, who is the Dragon/the Serpent of Old/the Devil/Satan, has blinded the world. Jesus came to restore their spiritual sight. In the Bible we see that this happens when people hear the Word of God. In Acts 10:44 we see that while Peter was yet speaking, the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles (the uncircimcised) and they were saved! They then went and were baptized in water. This is why we are told to keep sharing the gospel to the entire parts of the earth. Salvation is for TODAY and God sent THE WAY. He gave us power to overcome the Devil in this life. Read my hub "The Devil's Purpose". This will explain it.


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jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

Carrie, (this is long but as with anything related to God, those who are worthy and have a true need/calling from God to understand His Will, shall read it, those unworthy will not and remain ignorant)

You claim some of the statements I posted previous are untrue.  Again, you do not have an accurate understanding of the Scriptures.  How many times do you need to be shown where you err before you realize that you need to go back to square 1 and study.  The people who praise you and build you up are just as spiritually ignorant.  I would not rely on them as support.  The blind leading the blind will fall into a ditch as Christ states or do you think He didn’t say that too?

"For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, ARE CALLED" (I Cor. 1:26).

And of those called, only a "few are chosen." And those few are admonished to search, and hunt, and dig for the truth. None of this is an accident nor is it God’s plan gone amuck. God’s plan is on schedule to the millionth of a millisecond. God knows how many hairs were lost on your head today because He had already planned how many you would lose, a long time ago.

Carrie you are following the flesh when you make such statements.  If the truth about God upsets you, be angry with God, not me.  God will hear you and answer you accordingly.

“God created Adam & Eve with a sinful nature & spiritual weak” You claim this to be untrue.  What do the scriptures say?

"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)

Again, you’re incorrect.  The Scriptures state that man was created subject to vanity not willingly but by reason of Him/GOD.  But we have been given Hope as well.  Because we will be delivered from the bondage of corruption/DEATH.  Christ is that deliverance Carrie. 

This ties into my statement :

God created Jesus as the Lamb BEFORE the foundations of the earth. Which means that God knew that Jesus would have to die to save us from our sins.

Christ being slain from the foundation of the world illustrates not only that He was foreordained to be slain, but also that God had already chosen who He would call and choose as His Elect BEFORE Creation.

So yes Carrie, you are incorrect again.

Christ chose his elect & spoke to everyone in parables so that they WOULD NOT understand. Only for His Elect were the mysteries of Heaven to be made known. Christ does not change and his words are spirit.

Carrie, you claim my statement above is wrong that the disciples did not need Christ to explain the parables to them.  What do the Scriptures say?

Then Jesus sent the multitude AWAY, and went into the house: and His disciples came unto Him, saying, DECLARE UNTO US the parable of the tares of the field. He said and answered unto them [the disciples only] ..." (Matt. 13:34-37).

Yet again your proven wrong by the Scriptures.

Carrie, you claim my statement below is false.  What do the Scriptures say?

Everything in the physical is a shadow of the spiritual. You cannot and will not understand this simple truth unless God has called you to understand.

"Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to THEM it is NOT GIVEN" (Matt. 13:11).

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing SEE NOT; and hearing they HEAR NOT, neither do they UNDERSTAND. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye [’ye’ means everyone—all of you, not just the singular ‘you’] shall hear, and shall NOT understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall NOT perceive: For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be CONVERTED AND I SHOULD HEAL THEM.  But blessed are your eyes [the disciples’ only] for THEY SEE: and your ears, for THEY HEAR" (Matt. 13:13-16).

Carrie, you claim my statement below is false.  You claim the trinity doctrine is true.  What do the Scriptures say?

God, Christ & the Holy Spirit are not 1 in the same. Christ is not the son of the Holy Spirit. That is a false doctrine and unscriptural.

First of all, nowhere in the Scriptures is God referred to or called a "trinity."

Second, the word "three" is never used in reference to Who or What God is.

Third, God is never called or referred to as "a person."

Four, the holy spirit is never called "God."

Five, since Christ is the Son, He cannot also be the Father or be coequal with His Father.

Christ plainly said: "My Father is GREATER than I" (John 14:28).

No one dies and goes to a heaven or a hell. You die and know nothing.

EVERYONE ELSE who is NOT the Elect will be resurrected to judgment.

"For if we would judge ourselves [now, in this life], we should not be judged [with the world later]. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned [judged] with the world [at the resurrection to Judgment]" (I Cor. 11:31-32).

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything..." (Ecc. 9:5).

"While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

His breath goes forth, he returns to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish" (Psa 146:2-4).

"For in death there is NO REMEMBRANCE of Thee..." And just where and what is this "death?" rest of the verse: "in SHEOL who shall give Thee thanks?" (Psa 6:5).

The Greek word "hades," means "imperceptible or unseen," however, to the Greeks this word also represented both the god Hades and the domain of Hades, which was the state of the dead, and underworld. Originally this word did not mean a place of pain and torture. That bit of paganism was borrowed from the Egyptian underworld of Amenti with its lowest realm being Tartaroo where it was taught that there was pain and suffering. Leaders in Greece liked this Egyptian practice of keeping the common people fearful of their eternal fate by the constant threat of ending up in Amenti if they were bad, as does orthodox Christian theology to this day. And so the Greeks too incorporated these fabled eternal evils into their already established doctrine of Hades.

Carrie you claim the statement below is incorrect. What do the Scriptures say? Yet again you are proven wrong.

Everyone else will be put in the LOF to have their carnal hearts burned away. Since everyone is dead and in the spirit, this fire is also spiritual fire. It is God and His Elect. This is judgment. It will not be pleasant for those experiencing it BUT it will not be HELL. The Scriptures give physical examples of this process and the scriptures give spiritual examples of this process. This will all happen during Christ’s reign.

Then Christ will turn over His Kingdom to His Father and all will be one w/God. We will all be Sons and daughters of God. We will be like Christ. Everyone will be members of the same family.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation [judgment].

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting [eonian] life, and some to shame and everlasting [eonian] contempt [this is part of their judgment].

Isa 26:19 & 21 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise... For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity [judgment]: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and


jacobbsladdr profile image

jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

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Carrie, (this is long but as with anything related to God, those who are worthy and have a true need/calling from God to understand His Will, shall read it, those unworthy will not and remain ignorant)

You claim some of the statements I posted previous are untrue. Again, you do not have an accurate understanding of the Scriptures. How many times do you need to be shown where you err before you realize that you need to go back to square 1 and study. The people who praise you and build you up are just as spiritually ignorant. I would not rely on them as support. The blind leading the blind will fall into a ditch as Christ states or do you think He didn’t say that too?

"For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, ARE CALLED" (I Cor. 1:26).

And of those called, only a "few are chosen." And those few are admonished to search, and hunt, and dig for the truth. None of this is an accident nor is it God’s plan gone amuck. God’s plan is on schedule to the millionth of a millisecond. God knows how many hairs were lost on your head today because He had already planned how many you would lose, a long time ago.

Carrie you are following the flesh when you make such statements. If the truth about God upsets you, be angry with God, not me. God will hear you and answer you accordingly.

“God created Adam & Eve with a sinful nature & spiritual weak” You claim this to be untrue. What do the scriptures say?

"For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)!

Again, you’re incorrect. The Scriptures state that man was created subject to vanity not willingly but by reason of Him/GOD. But we have been given Hope as well. Because we will be delivered from the bondage of corruption/DEATH. Christ is that deliverance Carrie. This ties into my statement :

God created Jesus as the Lamb BEFORE the foundations of the earth. Which means that God knew that Jesus would have to die to save us from our sins.

Christ being slain from the foundation of the world illustrates not only that He was foreordained to be slain, but also that God had already chosen who He would call and choose as His Elect BEFORE Creation.

So yes Carrie, you are incorrect again.

Christ chose his elect & spoke to everyone in parables so that they WOULD NOT understand. Only for His Elect were the mysteries of Heaven to be made known. Christ does not change and his words are spirit.

Carrie, you claim my statement above is wrong that the disciples did not need Christ to explain the parables to them. What do the Scriptures say?

Then Jesus sent the multitude AWAY, and went into the house: and His disciples came unto Him, saying, DECLARE UNTO US the parable of the tares of the field. He said and answered unto them [the disciples only] ..." (Matt. 13:34-37).

Yet again your proven wrong by the Scriptures.

Carrie, you claim my statement below is false. What do the Scriptures say?

Everything in the physical is a shadow of the spiritual. You cannot and will not understand this simple truth unless God has called you to understand.

"Because it is given unto YOU to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to THEM it is NOT GIVEN" (Matt. 13:11).

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing SEE NOT; and hearing they HEAR NOT, neither do they UNDERSTAND. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye [’ye’ means everyone—all of you, not just the singular ‘you’] shall hear, and shall NOT understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall NOT perceive: For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be CONVERTED AND I SHOULD HEAL THEM. But blessed are your eyes [the disciples’ only] for THEY SEE: and your ears, for THEY HEAR" (Matt. 13:13-16).

Carrie, you claim my statement below is false. You claim the trinity doctrine is true. What do the Scriptures say?

God, Christ & the Holy Spirit are not 1 in the same. Christ is not the son of the Holy Spirit. That is a false doctrine and unscriptural.

· First of all, nowhere in the Scriptures is God referred to or called a "trinity."

· Second, the word "three" is never used in reference to Who or What God is.

· Third, God is never called or referred to as "a person."

· Four, the holy spirit is never called "God."

·&nbs


jacobbsladdr profile image

jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

Carrie,

You amaze me.  You contradict yourself over and over again.  I said it before and will say it again, do you even know what you write?

You say in 1 post “Jesus had to use "physical"-type parables to help them to understand.  His disciples did not need to be spoken to in parables.”  Then in another post you state “Jesus EXPLAINED the parables to the disciples”

It is clearly obvious you do not understand God’s truths.  That God is not calling you to understand His truths.  It’s like talking to a 1st grader with a learning disability.

Carrie you have no idea who God’s Elect are because if you did, you would NOT be spouting the unscriptural garbage that you are spouting.  I have explained God’s truths in the simplest most easy way possible and yet you still cannot understand.  Satan truly is good at taking away the seeds of God’s truth as soon as they hit fertile soil.  The devil has you in his clutches.  If I were you, I’d be on my knees praying for God’s help.  If anything, this proves that God blinds those He chooses to and unblinds those He calls.  You are blind Carrie, I am sorry.  You have my sympathies.

Carrie your hubs are worthless garbage and completely UNSCRIPTURAL.  You insist on promoting them as if you know what your speaking about.  Clearly you don’t have 1 clue.  Watch out for the ditch Carrie, the blind leading the blind will both fall into it.

I’m done.  Hell No, she is all yours.  Ignorance truly is NOT Bliss.

I will pray for God to have mercy on you Carrie.

Forgive her Father for she knows not what she does.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

You know, you have such a hostile spirit. The disciples heard the parables Jesus taught and they were explained to the disciples by Jesus. It doesn't matter. This is rhetoric. I heard something very interesting in an email sent to me just this week as follows:

"Even The Lord said to His Father whilst He was dying on the cross: "Father forgive them NOT, for they know what they are doing". This is how it is written in the Greek MSS, and not how the Christian Religious illegitimates have translated it into our English Bibles."

Truth or not as to how this verse was originally written, it seems to be consistent that we all must REPENT before forgiveness is granted. You have such an attacking spirit, JL and that in itself is not holy, as you claim to be. I've also done my best and yet you consistently attack with what appears to be hatred. God is love and desires to save the lost. We don't save the lost by attacking them and being hostile. Yes, we are to rebuke the spirit of Satan, but God says not to call what is of HIM of SATAN. That is unforgiveable, JL.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Jesus explained one parable to the decipals. The only problem is, he explained it in the form of another parable.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

So I suppose you're stating the disciples, when they asked to "DECLARE UNTO US the parable of the...." (which means they asked to have the parable EXPLAINED), didn't understand?  If they DID, then that tells us we who are saved DO understand.  It is THEY (the unsaved) that remain in darkness, blinded by the "god of this WORLD" (The Dragon/the Serpent of Old/the Devil/Satan) who has dominion over them.  Jesus came to open their eyes.  We know Jesus breathed the Spirit onto the disciples before the Day of Pentecost.  Again, salvation and receiving of the Holy Spirit will allow us to understand more, but not ALL things, as 1 Cor 13 states.


jacobbsladdr profile image

jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

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Oh Carrie,

You don’t have a clue do you. The disciples asked for Christ to explain every parable to them in private. They did not understand until they were converted. What do you not understand about someone asking for someone to declare something to that person(s), it means EXPLAIN IT! YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND Carrie, you don’t even understand the simplest of God’s truths. Now you’re going to try and say you do? You contradict the Scriptures every time you open your mouth! Where do you get the idea that because the disciples who are members of the Elect did not understand the parables and had to have them explained to them in private by Christ, that those who are saved (you think this means you) do understand? The Elect will understand ALL truths when they are converted as the disciples eventually were converted. While they were unconverted, they did not understand and had to have the parable explained to them. CLEARLY you do not have a truthful understanding of God’s word because you state complete and utter lies about God, about Christ and about members of the Elect. It is NOT for you to know at this time. That much is obvious. It is not meant for a great majority of the entire world to know God’s truths. If they did know God’s truths, there would not be hundreds of religions, there would not be anything like we experience every day. The world is in the condition it is in because that is part of God’s plan. It is NEEDFUL for a TIME.

Again, your statements are like talking to a 1st grader who just doesn’t make any sense. The things you say are so UN-Scriptural and so polluted with lies that it is almost painful to read.

I have stated over and over again, I have nothing against you. HOWEVER, having said that, at times your postings are as illegible as a 1 and 2nd grader. You consistently contradict even your own writings and it’s almost as if several other different people are posting under that one name.

You think I have a hostile spirit? Do you also think Jesus had a hostile spirit when He called the Pharisees Fools! You Hypocrites! You Snakes!? When you make comments such as I have a hostile spirit, it yet again, makes it very clear that you do not have an accurate understanding of the true Jesus Christ.

You mistake my purpose and drive in answering your postings as some need to save you. It is not my job to save you or anyone else. Christ ALREADY did that when He died on the cross and was resurrected and OVERCAME THE WORLD. Just because God has not blessed you with His Holy Spirit and provided you with the ability to discern true from false, doesn’t make the truth any less truthful. I do not care if you understand me or the truths that I have presented. That is up to God to open your eyes and ears. But, when you attempt to come onto another person’s hub and in typical Christian fashion attempt to correct those who DO have God’s truth in them, I will expose you, your church and all others who share your false doctrines, as God has commanded. “Expose those that contradict”.

It is clear to everyone that you post for the sole purpose of receiving praise from those with a like mind. There is no humility in you. You base all your understanding of the Holy Scriptures on pagan beliefs. Saying that we agree on 1 or 2 two truths doesn’t make you a faithful disciple of Christ, contrary to what you have been taught.

You attempt to portray yourself as someone who has studied earnestly yet you complain about reading a long posting full of Scriptural truths. CLEARLY, you do not study. I myself am eager to read anything and everything that is presented to me so that I am able to determine if someone is being led by God’s Spirit or being led by their carnal heart. We are to try every spirit to see if it is of God or not. All is of God Carrie, even your lack of ability to understand God’s truths.

Are there Scriptures which state that Christ IS the Savior of the whole world? YES. Do you have a Scripture that says He is not the Savior of All? NO.

Are there Scriptures which state that the book of Revelations is completely symbolic and metaphoric? YES. Do you have a Scripture that says the book of Revelations is literal and not


jacobbsladdr profile image

jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

symbolic and metaphoric?  NO.

Are there Scriptures which state that Christ was created as the lamb sacrifice for the ALL of our sins before the foundation of the world?  Are there Scriptures which state that God has predestined & predetermined EVERYTHING?  YES. 

Do you have a Scripture that says that God has NOT predestined & predetermined Christ as the sacrifice for the sins of ALL or a Scripture that says that God has NOT predestined or predetermined His Elect?  NO.

Are there Scriptures which state that we will be judged by our works?  YES.  Are there Scriptures which say that we will not be judged by our works?  NO.

Are there Scriptures which God says that He has created Satan, and that He has created evil?  Are there Scriptures that say that God creates some to be honorable and some to be dishonorable?  YES.  Do you have any Scriptures that say that Satan chose with his own free will to fall from grace and go against God or that God is powerless to stop Satan?  NO.  Do you have any Scriptures which state that Mankind is in control of their own life & can choose if they want to be honorable or dishonorable?  NO.

Are there Scriptures which state that it is God who directs each step of every man and woman on the planet?  YES.  Are the Scriptures that state it is God who chooses us & we are unable to choose God?  YES.  Do you have a Scripture which says that you can choose to be faithful to God and His Word all on your own or by your own Free Will?  NO.

Are there Scriptures that state Adam and Eve were created perfect and incapable of sinning against God?  NO.  Are there Scriptures which state that Adam and Eve were created full of vanity and spiritually weak?  YES.

So you see Carrie, you present false doctrines under the guise of Christianity.  While I understand that God is in control of all things including this conversation, you think it is YOU who controls your own life.  You who can do as you please without God’s participation.  It is YOU who is an anti-christ because you put yourself on the throne of God’s seat in His temple and declare yourself your own god.  You have no comprehension of even the simplest of God’s truths as I have just presented above.  You think the anti-christ is 1 man who deceives the world and goes to Jerusalem to sit on the throne of David.  You think the anti-christ will physically make war with God’s Elect.  It is ALL spiritual Carrie.  Do you even listen to Christ when He speaks?  He changes not.  John’s vision was from Christ, the words Christ speaks are spirit, He signified the vision.  Signified means to make known with signs!  SYMBOLIC.

666 is the number of MANKIND, not 1 man just as 7 is God’s number, which means completeness.  You have no idea of the spiritual ground you walk on and the implications of a great many Scriptures because you HAVE NOT STUDIED.  You just recycle what you have been taught and do not think for yourself.  WHY?  Because that is how God wants it.  God’s Word is for His Elect.  YOU are NOT a member of His Elect.  Clearly you don’t have any idea of who God’s Elect are, what God’s truths are, and what is expected of you when God does call a person out of Babylon. 

You are not alone, 95% of the entire world is still in Babylon and do not have a clue about God’s truth.  This is how God wants it.  They, like you follow pagan doctrines and spread lies about God and His Son Jesus Christ.

If you think I’m hostile, wait until you meet Jesus Christ.  He does not know you, because you are a worker of iniquity & He will spit you out.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 7 years ago from Manhattan

JL, you only agree with the studies of people that follow YOUR doctrine. We are of two different fathers, for sure. Your CLT Bible isn't even completed yet, and you follow after new and false doctrines. Everything you say to me, you will be judged by, as I've said before. I don't need to repeat myself ~ you will be looking into a mirror. As long as it's been since the truth came into the world, the very few you speak of belong to your new "bibletruths.com" cult. Yes, one of us will be standing with Lord to judge those who've persecuted us on the face of the earth. I have to leave YOU to your arrogance and pride and hope that another saved child of God will take over, if it's even God's will. Your heart is so hardened and eyes so blind, but I know with God all things are possible, and will keep the faith. I am not your Savior; Jesus Christ is. AMEN.


Hell N0 7 years ago Author

Hey Carrie, I want you to guess which song I want to sing to you. I'll give you a hint. What did Michael Jackson say? No, I don't mean "come here little boy". What did Michael Jackson say in his song in the mid 80s? Come on, sing with me, Carrie. Tell me the name of the song. He sang what I want you to do. What would that be Carrie?


jacobbsladdr profile image

jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

Yet again Carrie, you take the truths I have already presented to you that you previously denied and claim them as your own.

I will pray for you to give up this behavior Carrie. I find it funny that the very Scriptures I presented to you, that you said were lies, you now want to use against me and claim them as your own as if you did the study.

I know the truth hurts and it's upsetting for you to be confronted with actual truthful Scriptures.

You really should do an honest study instead of recycling what you have been taught in your born again church. It's painfully obvious you are not able to do the research on your own. you rely on stealing what others have presented. It's ok Carrie, the Holy Scriptures are free to those who have an ear. Give up your pagan doctrines and maybe God will open your eyes & ears!

You can call me part of a cult all you want. I take joy in the trials that God has called for me to receive.

You think this is a matter of winning? I take no delight in such things. I'm sad that it is not for you to know God's truths. I actually pray for you that He will open your eyes and ears. That you will reject these false doctrines. And here you think its about winning and losing. Clearly we know where your heart lies. Pride.

Time will tell if you can stay away. If I were a betting man...


Ast 7 years ago

Carnality really needs to die.

I have no idea how Carrie can still hold her house of sand together.


jacobbsladdr profile image

jacobbsladdr 7 years ago from Washington DC/Northern VA

I got down on my knees last night and prayed for Carrie.  I also repented of the condescending manner in which I spoke to her.  However, I know that God is in control of all things including these postings.  There is a mountain of difference in each of our hearts.  While mine seeks to do God's will and is aware of the lessons from God in everything we do, Carrie can't recognize that.  She thinks that she is in control of her own life.  She only claims God when it's convenient for her to do so or if it suits her purpose at the time.  She's clearly lukewarm. 

Thinking this is a contest?  A simple matter of wining or losing?  She attempts to project her own thoughts regarding the Scriptures as a contest hoping maybe she can take the negative attention from herself and put it on others. Christ knows His own flock & He protects those He knows.  For now, it's apparent that God's will is for Carrie to not be able to wrap her mind around that Scriptural truth and a great many others.

 


Chris 6 years ago

Well i have read all of this page and i am a follower of L Ray Smith. I have to say that all of you make great points. But Carrie is right in speaking about the hostility of JL. And Hell No has a wicked tongue, he speaks of writing with feces and perversions and so on. His comments are clearly evil at times. This proves how violent people can become that do not agree on Faith. Carrie started off with questions and comments and was drilled for it. What a shame.


Hell N0 6 years ago Author

Take it easy Chris. What you call evil I call darn funny. There is no evil intention on my part. But shock humor has its place and besides, who decides what words are vulgar anyway? I think that Carrie's insistance that god created a place of eternal torture is the most vulgar thing ever conceived. It's just that Babylon agrees with such a notion and they call universalists a bunch of heretics who are leading people to this torchorous afterlife. I call it as I see it. And the instance that you are refering to shows Carrie trying to suggest that I believe dead people aren't really dead, that they are being purified as we speak. But that comment of mine is no where near as funny as my answer to her Revelation verse.

P.S.

Don't follow Ray Smith. Follow Christ.


Bringer_of_Light profile image

Bringer_of_Light 6 years ago

Excellent my son, excellent. You are doing well to cause my kingdom to grow.

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