56 "The Bible Was Written by Who?"


“Who Wrote The Bible?”

One day not to long ago I asked myself a question. It was a question I had asked myself many times in the past but never did anything to find an answer. I always just assumed that there was really no concrete answer.

Anyway, I asked myself, “Who wrote the Bible?” Now that I have the Internet, I decided to look for an answer. I came to the conclusion that I was right all along, there really is no concrete answer, but I do have several answers and I am going to share them with anyone that takes the time to read this article.

I know that there are a lot of people in this world that read the Bible. There are several religions that preach and live by the Bible. There are groups and/or people that quote the Bible and there are those who interpret what the Bible says, and usually it is interpreted to fit their needs and beliefs. Many people tend to use the Bible for their gain. It’s not right, but they do.

But, when you ask “who wrote the Bible”, there are no clear cut answers. There are a lot of good answers, but never any that are clear cut.

Even on the Internet there is no single answer. I have put together excerpts from a place where I found a group of answers, wiki.answers.com.

To be able to read the complete listings go to: wiki.answers.com/q/who.wrote.the.bible

What I found is as follows:

1- A group of bishops at Carthage in 397AD “assembled” the Bible from books, chapters and writings of various prophets, apostles and disciples.

2- The Old Testament came from stories handed down by word of mouth over thousands of years.

3- God used men to write down his thoughts much as a business man uses a secretary. He allowed them to put these thoughts in their own words. But the men themselves said they were inspired.

4- The Bible was written over a 1600 year period. Its writers came from different times and came from many walks of life. Some were farmers, fishermen and shepherds. Prophets, Judges and Kings. The Gospel write Luke was a doctor.

5- The Four Gospels, it is claimed, were written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Two of them apostles and two companions of the apostle of Christ.

6- The apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ wrote the New Testament under the inspiration of God. The Old Testament was written by Moses and the prophets under the inspiration of God.

7- God is the one who wrote the Bible. There were many authors to the events that took place in the scriptures. All of these can be found in the contents page of the Bible. There have also been many translations of the Bible but most consider that the KJV is nearly the most accurate.

The Bible was written by more than one man. In the first part the people wrote what they saw as it happened and in the second part they wrote under divine inspiration. There were many people, true and God’s words as he spoke are in the Bible. There is a list of people credited to writing the Bible on the web site listed previously.

8- The New Testament (modern Christian Bible) was written in the 14th century by Emperor Constantine and his council in his own words. This fact is confirmed in the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia, which also states that any original text was altered, apparently in order to create some form of consistency across all documents.

Unfortunately, the copying of earlier texts, leaving some out, making some up, introduced many errors and inconsistencies in the modern Christian Bible.

There is a list of these on the web site also. It is a very interesting web site.

Anyway, I asked one question and found many answers. But at least I found answers.

My feelings are that, first of all, it doesn’t matter who wrote the Bible. The Bible has been here for many years and has given a lot of people inspiration and a reason to believe that life and love are worthwhile.

It is also my belief that even if you don’t believe in the Bible you can still live a happy and loving life. But the Bible does have a lot of interesting stories.

Back to the reason I wrote this article; no matter who wrote or who was involved in the writing of the Bible, there are good points there and the Bible should be respected. The words in the Bible should never be twisted or interpreted to fit evil deeds.

Greg


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Comments 160 comments

Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 5 years ago

The bible is a book that has a Author. Written by many secretaries of men. The bible being a book of inspired writings a real prophecies that has been proven to be true in our day. By real life situations and events. Proof that this book is powerful and very much alive.like most books there is a theme to this book. Many religion do not know and yet they claim to know the bible.


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 5 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

This is a nicely compiled hub. I've always thought that if the same God had inspired all its books, there would be far more consistency than there seems to be.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 5 years ago

Consistency has to do with your interpetation, all things written in this book fits perfect like a puzzle , like a jigsaw , all pieces may look like they fit any where, but in the end each piece fits just right. everything that is written is right on time and whats in the future will not be late. the bible has been preserved for many generations,like a sunken treasure that seems worth nothing ,because of age ,because of wear and handling ,the treasure is still intack and more valuble today then ever,

we live just a few to be a hundred ,yet that has not change the vital message of life and death. our future is there in that book and no other.


always exploring profile image

always exploring 5 years ago from Southern Illinois

This was interesting. Thank you for sharing. I don't argue religion. Who knows what was written or when. I believe in God. We will all understand someday..Cheers


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 5 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Kiss and tales - no need to instruct me. My view is different from yours, that's all.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 5 years ago

I am glad you admit this as your view ,we are all intitle to that on hub pages .you state "there would be far more consistency then there seems to be." means you question the book that is inspired of God ! so you just said it in a nice way ! but I am just replying to your view in a nice way.


Gypsy Rose Lee profile image

Gypsy Rose Lee 5 years ago from Riga, Latvia

I agree the Bible is a book to be respected. However when I was little I always imagined God and then Jesus walking around with a notepad in one hand and a pencil in the other. lol And eventually all these notes were somehow found, collected and put together. I a way I still kinda like this childish imaginative look at things. Makes God and Jesus so much more like us. I keep my Bible at hand whenever I have a tough moment I read some passages I like and then I feel much better. I never forget to say a prayer at night and I wrote up a prayer to say each morning. It sort of seems like life should have prayer in it.


Sueswan 5 years ago

Hi Gregas

A very interesting and thought provoking hub.

Like you, I agree the words in the Bible should never be twisted or interpreted to fit evil deeds.


olodarkwriter profile image

olodarkwriter 5 years ago from Arkansas

Many people use any thing they can to justify their actions or get what they want, including the Bible. The Iranians used human wave attacks in their 1980's war with Iraq. That didn't make the children and old people who were forced to go out before the Iranian troops and trip over the land mines evil, but rather the Iranian government that forced them to do so. The Bible isn't bad because people misuse it, but rather the people who do so are. I am glad to see some of you that respect the book even if all the questions about it are not answered.


sweetie1 profile image

sweetie1 5 years ago from India

Gregas I dont know much about bible as I have never seen one but i have heard a lot since i Joined facebook and hubpages. I really liked the way you dugout the history of bible. Very nice hub voted it up


gregas profile image

gregas 5 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi all of you, I want to thank you all for your comments. I got just about the response I expected. I variety of comments about a good question. Sorry I didn't answer each one of you individually, but I wanted comments without my input on each one. Again, thank you. Greg


Pollyannalana profile image

Pollyannalana 4 years ago from US

I use the Zondervan version because thees and thous make me sleepy but I think it used along with the King James can give me all I will ever need. I think bible study has given me the happiest days of my life and people who never read it don't know what they are missing. How can anyone knock it who hasn't read it? Some think they won't have to answer if they play stupid. Christians are told to study and show themselves approved but many like to pretend the bible is only here for pastors and leaders in the faith. Great cop out if you ask me.

Very good hub, voted up and across.

Polly


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Polly, Thank you for the beautiful comment. Greg


RTalloni profile image

RTalloni 4 years ago from the short journey

Very interesting hub that has generated the same kind of comments. Because the Word of God has been better to me than food or drink this is a topic that always gets my attention. I plan to look this over again soon as well as keep up with the comments.

You and your readers might be interested in a book about how we got our Bible titled "From the Mind of God to the Mind of Man." It's available on Amazon at

http://www.amazon.com/Mind-God-Man-Laymans-Guide/d...

I've no financial interest in the book. :)

The New American Standard Bible is becoming very popular with people who are familiar with the KJV, and the ESV is also an excellent choice. Then there are Parallel Bibles and Chronological Bibles that give eye-opening insight into Scripture truths.


Debby Bruck profile image

Debby Bruck 4 years ago

Greg - I voted up and interesting on this hub because I admire someone who investigates a question they have mulling around in their head. Searching for answers and searching for G-d is exactly what He wants humans to do. Find Him! Yeah. Blessings, Debby


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Debby, Thank you for the follow, visit, vote and the comment. Now that I am retired I have time to research a lot of things that I have had questions about in my head for years. Greg


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

Great Hub, Gregas, as the others have said. I got here because you began following me. I was going to write somehthing similar someday, now I don't have to; just link my readers to this one. Voted awesome.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Eso, Thank you for the follow, visit, comment and the vote. And thank you for any links you might send this way. The Bible or religion is not my specialty, but since I satisfied my curiosity I just thought I would share my findings with anyone with the same question. Again thank you. Greg.


PDXKaraokeGuy profile image

PDXKaraokeGuy 4 years ago from Portland, Oregon

Great Hub, greg. I love seeing people ask questions and examining and seeking answers. it's better then just accepting things as blind facts.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi PDX, Thank you for the follow, visit and comment. I agree, and if more people would do that before they vote, we might not be in the mess we are in here in this country, or world for that matter. Greg


Pcunix profile image

Pcunix 4 years ago from SE MA

"The words in the Bible should never be twisted or interpreted to fit evil deeds."

One man's twist is another's righteous outrage. That will remain true until the last human stops believing in the supernatural.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Good hub. Have many questions about the Bible. So much so I made a hub about it as well. Not as polite as yours but never is when tough questions and comments arise. Just not sure why everything about religion has to be so damn secretive. Lol


mena7thefamily profile image

mena7thefamily 4 years ago from Las Vegas

This is a hub that has many going huuuummmmm so this was a great topic to write about! Thanks


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Pcunix, Thank you for the visit and the comment. You are right, read the Bible and believe what you want to believe, but don't twist things to try and make someone believe your way. Not meaning you specifically, just people in general. Greg

Hi Shawn, Thank you for the visit and comment. I agree with you, there are a lot of questions concerming the Bible, but the differences between people because of the Bible should NOT lead to wars. Greg

Hi Mena, Thank you for the visit and comment. I am glad my hub has people going huuuummmmm. We need more people going hum about so many things instead of just taking everything at face value. Voting is one. People should investicate for themselves what they are voting for instead of taking the word of a friend or the media. Thank you. Greg


dorileemarie profile image

dorileemarie 4 years ago from Philippines

KJV is the most accurate translation.. Great HUB!


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

Greg

A nice compendium of the making of the Bible.

What it tells us is that the Bible was not scribed real time or anything that resembles it.

It also tells us that it is a work of a committee, rather than an author. The Bible is twenty two book, or documents weaved into a binding from the selections of the committee.

It also tells us from the time it took to get out to the world, there was no Bible or guide for the world population.

One also has to wonder why men of different types and at different times wrote their pieces instead of God. The wonder should be that Real Time at least according to the Bible Itself, God wrote the Ten Commandments on a tablet. So God set the precedent of writings himself.

Why did God break precedent and let humans write the Bible? If God had written it in Real Time it would have been available for all to follow. Genesis might have been a users guide to the world, and maybe the universe.

But it appears that the Bible(s) contained only the knowledge of the world at the time it was written.

my opinion


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi IB, Thank you for the visit and comment. Your opinion is always welcome on my hubs, whether you agree with me or not. Greg


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

gregas

That is nice to hear, but even nicer would be your opinion about my opinion.

Thanks


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

My opinion about your opinion ,is that I am glad it's just opinion.

first you accept God used Moses to give commandments .then then it should not be hard to accept that other humans where given the honor to be used by God to fulfill his purpose.

next why question what God does ,when it is he who gives life to all souls here on earth.we as humans can not add one day to our life.

all human life is short ,yet the bible has survive many generations, and yet there is always a right and wrong of law we all live by .nothing we made up.God has seen the beginning of every soul that has lived and died and that will be born.he has all the answers ,and the bible is a gift that holds many of the answers .the problem is do you want to accept it or not ,and if you don't only you and him realy knows why!

you state the knowleged at time fits for that time. I surley disagree ,until death has been done away with ,sickness and pain ,Revalations 21:4 -6 ,You see the curse of death started with Our parents Adam and Eave not obeying Gods command. death was there curse,all the human race of them had not been born ,so we inherit there curse, of death and sickness and pain , so the cure was sent for us ,and paid for ! we now have a future. not to just die but to inherit this earth under Gods new Goverment through his son,Jesus. he paid for our future,As long as life and death still effects us to day ,Our future is in that book . no other book God has given us on earth ,that speaks the truth. in our case.Our future ,Isaiah 65:22 is what God Almighty will do for us , soon to come .Once earth is cleaned off again ,like the cleaning of the flood. those who want to live here on earth under peaceful and safe conditions will truly be in paradise.And the lords prayer truley fullfilled .Your will be done on earth as in in heaven. Math 6:9 -13 No outdated about life and death.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Kiss, Thank you for the visie and lengthy comment. It's true, everyone has the right to their own opinion and belief in the Bible and that person has to live with that choice. Just don't twist things in the Bible to sound the way you want. Greg


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

Gregas

I don't accept anything in the Bible(s)

I used Moses and the Ten Commandments to show that the bible is man made. We don't have the God made tablets.

The bible(s) are vague and ambiguous, and there have been no updates to them by God. Man keeps re-analyzing them and coming up with new meanings.

If this world is a result of God, then I certainly wouldn't praise him. The premise of God blaming billions of people for the act of two people is petty. The bible has stories not unlike Aesop and Santa Claus. We grow out of the later two, but not everyone outgrows the bible(s).

The stories make no sense, allowing the serpent into the Garden of Eden was wrong. Following the story, Adam and Eve were new borns, and God did not teach them anything. God warned them, but that is not the same as teaching.

Millions of embryos and babies die or are afflicted with horrible deformities, or diseases. They have no ability to reason or do bad acts, yet they are the targets of a God that is still miffed at Adam and Eve.

Yet, when Cain kills Able life goes on...

Sorry, but the bibles were written by men, a lot of them, and without any divine inspiration or knowledge.

Man has not changed since recorded time, they are going to be the same forever. So you don't need Revelations to foresee man as a failure of creation, what or whomever created them.

The universe and the Earth are death traps we refer to as Acts of God, ironic.

my opinion..


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

Thanks ,again for a good subject matter. I appreciate the honestyof a person who does admitt not believing in the bible , instead of using crafty remarks to put doubt in other peoples minds ,because they do not believe or understand , but I learned a lesson about that! and that is thier light has not been turned on !And only God can grant that light. To see and understand is not all up to us ,but the one who wants us to see will reveal his purpose to whom he wishes. So his opinion reflects the light not turned on in his comments. You can accept thats how they see it .And pray that before Gods purpose has fully been done he will see the truth ,And that is many people need to know the truth and it is there for them ,It is Gods will that all sorts of men come to the accurate knowledge of truth.1Tim 2:4


stessily 4 years ago

gregas, Interesting question which, as with so many questions, has many answers which are accepted, rejected, or pondered depending upon experience and perspective.

For me the intricacies of the source of the Bible are explained by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13:12, "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." That passage guides me through many twists, turns, and brambles.

Thank you for sharing your discovery.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

If the bible(s) are your idea of a Loving Caring Creator God, then you need to look at the results in real life and in real time.

The story of Santa Claus made sense to every little kid, but then when they grew up they realized that it was just a story.

The bible(s)are just stories, only many people spend their whole life believing those stories, and then they are forgotten, never to be heard from again.

It is 2012, not 0012.

The Old and the New Testament: Stories, fiction or non fiction?


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

Mr Ib Radmasters you mention the the word Loving what is your meaning of love ? where did you learn the meaning?and do you feel you have love?

True it is sad people teach thier children not to tell lies and they lie to them about a make believe santa clause. so many people and children confused about telling lies.

there is history in the bible, that are not just stories.

there is a family tree of Jesus . there is the history of world power rulers like (Pharaohs, and kings that have ruled in power that you will find in any history book if you do research. Alexander the great was recorded as having great power. And it is no lie or story about death. how death enter our lifes is no story ,many people die each day. we where given a cure. soon will be given to many after earth is cleaned off.making the way for paradise.A new heavens (meaning new Goverment world wide. and a new earth 2peter 3:13 according to Our God's promise. It is impossible for God to lie Hebrews 6:18 .And it is true men lie about many things , so there is a problem of people believing people of lies .but they can not lie about life and death. Death is recorded in the beginning of the bible to the end. again I ask you what is outdated about that? The bible gives us the answers of truth.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

Gregas

I didn't understand any of your comment.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi IB, Maybe that explains why you don't understand why some people believe in the Bible while you don't. Greg


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

Hi Greg,

You began following me and I am new to hub pages and have been spending so much time counseling young girls who are rape survivors because of my first hub that I haven't ventured out beyond a few political sites---having said all of that, if someone is going to follow me it reminds me that I came here to write and all the people whose hubs I read are so amazingly fun to connect with and yeah,I need to write more---

This is soooooo fascinating to me and is the first hub of yours I chose to read----is gregas greek---you look as though you might be greek---I had many greek clients a few years back on the East coast and so, that is not why I am here----I began to study the history of the Bible in high school and it was in 1970 that I wrote my senior paper on the Bible and the history of the Bible and then in college,I did a paper on how we got so many different kinds of religion and back then I had to go to my family encyclopedias,the library, rolling stone and playboy magazines,for the controversial news of the day and long story short, I have been going to do exactly what you have done for me and I really want to thank you for it. In my studies of religions and the history of the Bible over the past 40 years I have learned that lots of people wrote the Bible and through their stories it is very clear to me that the writers of both the old and new testaments were inspired by,lead by,loved by,

influenced by and even sent ANGELS by an Almighty and Powerful yet, Merciful God and many of whom were later in the New Testament inspired by,lead by,influenced by,and who experienced miracles by JESUS and his three year time on earth in which he taught the people about God's love. Both the old and new testaments were a huge compilation of many historical or real life versions of stories that you couldn't "make up." IMO

I know you did reference the fact that there were many rewrites and editings and language changes before we got to the King James Version of the Bible and I would like to suggest to you that because of those translation, rewrites and editings that the KJV is the very least

"accurate" version of the Bible and therefore should NEVER be taken as "gospel" and in my research and I am sure in yours, I learned that the KJV is missing 7 or 8 books (depending of whose version of that you believe) of the original versions of the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament and in reading the translations of those books and in dying and going to Heaven and coming back here, I learned that the translators, editors, and rewriters of the KJV seemingly have left out the most important lesson that God and Jesus left for us and that is the fact that in those "deleted" books of the Bible the writers talked about two things ad infinitum---they talked about the one and only way to get to the Heaven where the streets are made of Gold and the waters dance and sing (like in front of the Bellagio in Vegas)and where the street lights are made of emeralds and where God and Jesus live and that is too learn to "love" every single human we encounter while on earth and more importantly that "we will reincarnate" until or unless we learn to love everyone we encounter here on earth.

In my quest to learn why we had so many different religions, I began "back dooring" the offices of priests, rabiis, pastors, nuns and missionaries who all gave me one-on-one interviews in which I wanted to know what exactly they had studied about the Bible and how that compared to the KJVersion from which almost all of these men were teaching and why in God's name do we have soooo many different religions?? Regardless of their religion they had all studied the original versions, the translations over the years and the lost or deleted books of the Bible in addition to the KJVersion of the Bible and they all agreed that reincarnation and a lot of the reasons we are to love everyone to get that final ticket to the Holy Land were two very big things that got lost in the translation to the book that these men were preaching from their pulpits---many agreed that this is a big "faux-pas" in their teachings and that they truly believed that their respective churches should somehow try to work this concept into their future teachings! This left to my final question that I asked each and every one of them before my exit---I asked them how then that they could knowingly preach the King James Version as "gospel?" And I wanted to know why there has been so much hatred and so much killing in the name of God for land and treasures and riches and wars and well maybe this will be my next hub so you can read my findings. Thank you again and God Bless us one and all----analise


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Anje, Thank you for the visit and such a power and informative comment. To answer your question, no, I am not Greek. Actually I am of full German decent. I look forward to reading you hub. Greg


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Anje, the question you ask in which why so much bloodshed, wars and greed all in the name of God or religion is something you had already answered. As you mentioned, it is said that the heavens are roads paved in gold,


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Con't - emeralds fill the heavens and the such. From the get go the Bible created greed. People want to believe they go to this place, or to gain unlimited virgins or get their own planet. Once that greed to get there is challenged or interrupted on a wide scale this in turn turns into war and death because of it. Its all a vicious circle that makes no sense to me to be honest. Seems to be to much trouble than its worth to live my life believing in something that may or may not be true. Lol


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Shawn, Thank you for the visit and comment. I persnally wonder if there would have been as many wars if there had been no such thing as religion(s). Most wars have been because of religion or greed, which to some, is a form of religion in itself. Greg


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Very true Greg which really does make me wonder why SO many people accept it given it's bloody history. Bible preaches love and kindness but yet it is to blame for some of the most horrific acts against mankind. Boggles the brain.


Pcunix profile image

Pcunix 4 years ago from SE MA

I'm not sure religion caused all that many wars. I suspect that if religion hadn't been used as the excuse, some other reason would been trumped up instead. Just as we use fear of terrorists now, other times used religion.

I'm an atheist, by the way, and no great fan of religion, especially the organized kind. But I don't buy blaming religion for evil.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Certainly not ALL wars of course but even one war because of relion is one to many. Totally contradicts its meaning.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

I had written a response to @Kiss a few days ago, but, as I feared, my computer ate it.

Go ib radmasters!

@Kiss, I can't remember what I put in my now lost reply and I am of the age that once gone out of my mind, it is lost, generally forever. So, let me offer a parallel line of thought. As I have mentioned in other comments in other hubs on the same topic, the reasoning you are using, as others have used, is circular reasoning.

You start with an unprovable fact that God is directly responsible for 100% of the words in the original written version of the Bible, which is now lost to history. Then you base everything you believe in on that single, unprovable fact whose original written record no longer exists. You then use all of these other assertions to prove the first assertion, that God was directly responsible for 100% of the written words in the original Bible.

Further, for any of the citations you have used above, you have to believe, for you cannot prove it, that the version of the Bible you are quoting from is, in fact, a true and exact reproduction of the lost original. Beyond that, for any of the monotheistic religion, or variation thereof, who believe the Bible is the actual Word of God, of which there are several in the Protestant and Islamic faiths, then every version, in every language that exists today must not contradict one another in true meaning, even though the actual words might be different.

If the above is not the case, then why should I believe you over another fervent Christian of a somewhat different orientation using a version of the Bible that contradicts yours in at least one significant place? If you challenge me on that last point, I can show you many places within the four Gospels of even the same version, where they cleary contradict one another.

THAT, is the problem with believing the Bible as being the actual written word of God, because the Bible itself is internally inconsistant and contradictory. The leaders of the faithful have to make up way too many excuses or eceptions to get around all of these apparent flaws.

In my view, God created a much easier system to follow than the one monotheists stuck themselves with.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

Thanks for reply .First I would like to make it very clear , I am not in any debate about the bible being the word of the Universal Creator God almighty.Next there is nothing in the bible that is a threat ,that I would have to dis own what it is saying .first I look at it as a gift it has answered all my vital questions. there is no other book In history since I have been living that has all the answers to the life we live here on earth in our small life time.next you are trying to say I have no proof well first let me give you the first ,you are a living and breathing person that is why we are having this conversation, and God has allowed the breath of life to fill your lungs .like its listed in the first book of the bible.the creation of Adam and Eve Next ,proof is that people die ,which was not ,Gods purpose for us .Because you have many trees that live longer then you and I ,and some animals like turtles. So humans are far more valuble then animals and trees ,Our lifes could be longer,and one day in the future we will live longer.Next your mind always tell you tomarrow ! why because we have a built in sense to keep living .to die is not natural. I have no problem with the bible being Gods word because first if you notice why does the bible not speak against itself with so many different writters . would you being the writter of a book belittle youself, call youself names ,make fun of yourself . No all writters where used as pen man of Gods words.And they never said anything improper about God Almighty.

And next I will end with this If some one came to you who could not read, who could not hear ,with a letter in their hand some one else had written ,and the letter said there is a gas leak that will wipe out the whole block ,you and your family need to move to safty, would you question that message because of the messenger? would you risk vital lifes all because you are questioning its source .the bible message covers the past and the future many lifes are at stake ,because many do not want to accept the message of whats written , or maybe they love an immoral life ,which is more important to them then realy being in a clean relationship with God.Only you and God knows what is in the heart.So in the end he is the true Judge of those that believe and those that don't. I am 100% sure .and I have no doubts that the Bible is Gods way of talking to us and giving us a future .If you don't accept that that is your free will .


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

And I understand that is your faith, @Kiss, which is perfectly fine; as many others have already said above, it is what makes you feel at one with the universe and good within yourself. For me, however, it is a source of too many unanswered questions that can be answered easily in other ways without all of the conflict and of God making people choose sides.

We both start from the same place, Kiss, God created the Universe, and to that extent, I can even agree with you that God even "inspired" the writers of the Bible, but I doubt in the sense that you mean. In my view of things, God is the essense of all things, God created the template of life, the initial bit of energy witch, in one cataclysmic explosion (Big Bang), everything, including the first "Adam and Eve", again, I doubt what you have in mind, evolved from over then 13.75 billion years.

All that you have said so far, other than an actual animated God actively intervening in our lives, can be found in my alternative view. In my view, however, you can even have faith in an animated God, and still be consistent.

I suspect the Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Comficians, and many others might disagree with you as to the Bible, including the New Testament, as being the best book in history ... clearly you believe that, and for you, that is certainly a fact, but, for others, including myself from 10 years old and later, it is not.

Finally, I posit you this - how can "humans be more valuable than animals and trees" when it is the latter two that sustain human life? Without the latter, the former could not exist while animals and trees could certainly exist, and did for a time, even in the Bible, without the presence of humans.


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charles wade 4 years ago from Chicago, Illinois

It is amazing for me to see all the damage religion has caused the human race. If religion wasn’t destroying us it would be something else like greed, lust or the ideologies of lunatics. The Bible is inspired by God, most often preached, paraphrased and commentated on by unstable people; and that is the basis for many religions. In all seriousness I find it crazy that anyone who believes the Bible to be the inspired word of God to think God needs them to convince others of it. I do understand why people would argue that it isn’t. From the dumbest to the brightest of us humans there isn’t enough intelligence to write a book that compares to the Bible. Those writers were far more superior to anyone writing today. Religion isn’t the only tool used to manipulate people, just the one we like to discuss the most. All religions could disappear tomorrow, and as great as that might sound, we would still be no closer to solving our more serious issues.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

Quoted by Jesus (Matthew 10:29-30-31) says a sparrow sells for a coin of small value,and God knows when one has fallen.therefore have no fear you are worth more then many sparrows. the hairs of your head are numbered,yet we do not know how many hairs we own.

Matthew 6:26 says the birds are fed by him .are you not worth more than they are.

True animals and plants are a vital need ,but never will be equal to the value of human life .from Gods point of view.And that is your free will to believe what you do.

And I do not debate thats how you feel. because I do not know whats in your heart. But I can only speak what is in mine . the Bible gives us the Mind of God and his son.

that is how we know right from wrong. he set the standards.Next there is a future for those who have died (Acts 24:15) earth being cleaned off first.Revelation 16:1-14,16 (Revelation 7:9) A great crowd of survivors after Armegeddon.who do do ever death.How loving of God to give us a future .there is no future in the big bang therory .just some ones idea of what they think . We are living proof of Gods creation .all these years man so far is still man, producing still humans. animals are still animals.the earth is still what it is .and now is ruin by humans.God will restore the earth the way he ment it to be .and he will 2peter 3:13 .that is truth .


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Someone period happy in their writings? Holy cow!


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

Well said @Kiss, I understand why you feel the way you do although I obviously do not agree with it. However, on another point you made as to the source of right and wrong; for you, God, via the Bible, is your source. For me, God is the source without any intervening medium. Right and wrong are built into the nature of things by God when God created the universe 13.75 billion years ago. I know what right and wrong is without drawing on the Bible as does well over 50% of the worlds population who does not believe in the Bible.


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

Can anyone tell me what a Comifician is and what does

"someone period happy in their writings" mean and sometimes when people are rambling anyway and then they don't use spell check it is almost impossible to have any clue what they are saying----

I said what I had to say about the Bible in an earlier post and as I am following greg I am intrigued by the FACT that MEN are all over this topic arguing profusely (I think) about the Bible and Religion and I fully expect someone to pull out a race card at any minute. We have always been a violent planet and as everyone is willing to agree many, many wars were fought in the name of religion and yet MEN refuse to stop fighting about religion and land and oil and race and are in fact fighting more about these things on the internet than ever before and in every conversation someone throws in religion or oil prices or politics or race or my land and my country are better than your country. Kids in their 20's fight about these things day and night on yahoo and a million other places in the world----they can fight and argue and no one except a woman ever enters these conversations saying "enough already." When MEN quit arguing and fighting over these four things then we will have world peace and a planet of love and it will be then that we see Almighty God in the flesh----He will not return to our lives until or unless we as the inhabitors of the planet made in His image:stop hating and start to love everyone in our time on Earth and there is no other "key" to the final return to the Kingdom of Heaven and until then we have to reincarnate over and over again until we learn to love everyone on the planet and until we teach our children to love everyone on the planet as well.

Charles Wade,

The voice of reason in the storm, seriously unstable people have filled our pulpits worldwide and your are so right no one has ever done it better.

It is because of this kind of insane bickering that we have a bazillion kinds of religion in the first place which has only served to continue to divide us and continue the practice of hate in the name of religion. There are like 400 plus kinds of Baptists in America because one by one some guy decided to do it a little differently, to tweek the Bible just a little bit and to make lots of money and to "take away" or "add to" the original versions of the Bible and to belittle and change God and His word in the process. They ALL study the original versions of the Bible and then say whatever they want when they hit the pulpit.

It doesn't say in any versions of the Bible that priests should be celibate and look what that has done to our world and it doesn't say anywhere that a woman should not use birth control----there was no birth control in the days of the writings of the Bible and now more than a billion people go to bed hungry all over the world to include more than a million people in America and we have grossly overpopulated our planet and China is the only country who sees the need to stop overpopulating the planet and there was no "marriage" between a man and a woman or anyone else in Biblical days and according to the original versions of the Bible to include the lost books of the Bible Mary Magdelline was NOT a prostitute but was a woman who lived "in sin" with Jesus for at least three years before HIS death and anyone who has ever been around gay men and women KNOWS this is genetic and not a sin and well like many of you, I could go on and on, but what is the point? Love is the point and we all want and need it so why can't we all just get along? Analise


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

Unfortunately, comments doesn't have spell check, at least not where I can find it; Comifician is actually Confucianism, sorry.

Ahhh, Analise, a woman after my own heart. I live in the South now, after living in the West, the Northwest, and the East Coast, and can always raise some eyebrows when I assert that the world would be a much nicer place if all of the nations leaders were female; I am male, by the way. I even told one woman down here that Hillary Clinton should win the Presidency, I can't remember the setting, and she said she didn't think woman had what it took to be President; I was a bit dumbfounded.

It may intrest and probably depress you to know that of the five great apes (I am going to get yelled at), humans, chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, and orangutans, only one, the bonobo, is not an agressive male dominated society. The bonobo is an egalitarian, peaceful, and rather polygamous (both sexes) society. (I imagine this fits your "Love is the point" phrase, lol.)

The human and chimpanzee males act in almost identically violent ways; always have and, sadly, probably always will. The gorilla and orangutan, which are further down the evolutionary chain, behave somewhat more peacefully.


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

I can't imagine anything more fiscally damaging today than having Barack Obama as our potus except for possibly having the former Card-Carrying-Communist and current One-World-Orderer, Hillary Clinton---after a little more thought----it's a toss-up---they both love taking from those who work to give to those who don't work---but if I remember we were talking about religious and Biblical stuff---and no real southern woman would ever say women don't have what it takes to do anything----southern women of today are very independant and if that woman was from the south, she said, "that woman" doesn't have what it takes to be President meaning Hillary specifically---I think Much love is the greater point however and I have tried to love Hillary and just cannot----she is the leader of the thinning of the herd gang---


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

thank you for all of your feed backs on my comments and If I do not answer back to your reply right away .I will try to get back to you when I can . In reply to spell check you are correct. I am not good in spelling ,but what I am saying is understood others reply back with no problem.if you have a problem just ask me what you do not understand .rather then make the statment you have made .because it does'nt sound like you care anyway .Just finding fault in my spelling. example money is green ,silver,and gold because the letters are not as clean on the face of a bill or a coin is soiled .does that mean its not money of value. would you throw it away because you can not see the value of the coin. If that is what you get from it ,or thats what you look for,you will loose the value .


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

All of that talk like a 1980's miss America speech about wold peace and loving each other is all great but as you have mentioned, it wont ever happen for as long as religion is around. Religion is a considerable factor in past and present difficulties. Reality bites unfortunately. Get rid of religion altogether and maybe the " we are the world" song will bust out and things like that cold happen but Obviously that'll never happen. Sucks, but its reality.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

TO Mr .Philanthropy ,Why do you write a comment .for the reason to be heard and you want others to believed in your point of view. and that you exist ,I could say the same for you and your comment since i can not visualy see you,and that these words you have written means nothing because I only see words .so really no one can take your presense as being there. You are saying people can view you the same way.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

So everything you write kiss doesn't matter and you dont exist because its just words? Not sure I'm following you.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

what I am saying is that others want you to believe they exist and all we have is just their words on printed page,the same with Gods word from others views,they see the bible as words on printed pages ,but they will not see him as a person . that does not mean that he does not exist no more then the one who has just made a comment and I do not see them.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

OK, I want to thank all of you for your comments. I wrote the hub to get the various views about the Bible. I have accomplished that, but I did not write it so that the bickering could get so far off line. I welcome your discusing this subject, but please, stay on track of what the article is about. The Bible and it's authors. Thank yoy, Greg


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Simma down Greg. I was just trying to clarify what kiss was saying.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Shawn, I'm OK with the discusions. I just had not been saying anything and I want to try and keep things on tract. I love seeing the discusiond. Greg


mthein profile image

mthein 4 years ago from Klamath Falls Oregon

The most important thing about the Word, in my opinion, is that it is the Living Word. It needs to be read in the Spirit. It is the revelations that come to us individually from reading His Truth that will guide us and protect us in our lives.


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

Seriously, does anyone know what a Comfician is??? I really want to know!

Shame on you Shawn, you two had clearly hijacked greg's hub, which is why I told you boys to "simma down" if we're speakin' "hood" here; but you do get props for the "1980's miss America, wold peace" reference.

But,actually and just so you know, that gorgeous girl in my thumbnail this week is my niece and we still look alot alike; but, I am 59 years young and didn't much like the 80's and couldn't relate to beauty queens much ever, so---

I'm a rodeo ridin'-- race car drivin'-- yoga teachin'--rape and gangbanger counselor, among other things, yeah, and I didn't much like the 80's; but you get points for making me "lol" on the beauty queen ref. and the hope and love and world peace thing came from my trip to Heaven as I described earlier when I hijacked greg's hub and I hope this will make you laugh as well, Shawn and I promise that all of you would love, "Embraced by the Light," and I recommend that we all TRY to LOVE everyone whom we come into contact with and if we SMILE at everyone we pass by everyday and we can FEEL what it FEELS like to walk in Jesus shoes in everyday life and we can be amazed at how peaceful that will make us and those we come into contact with FEEL! And I think I made it pretty clear that to "eliminate religion" would take one thing off the table for MEN to fight over and that's a good thing,so---

Kiss,are you a girl or a boy, because we don't know if we are seeing you in that picture or not?---are you THAT girl in the picture with a dog collar on???---that picture is very disturbing and one can only assume that "shock factor" was what you were going for and that you are not sitting at home on the couch on your computor with a dog collar on??---right??

Also,as an aside,Kiss,I always have a second window open so I can spell check every word that I am not sure about while I am commenting and if you follow my career advice (which appears later in this comment) you will need to know how to spell for any of those professions and I always recommend a simple phonics online course first or recommend always spell checking in a different window---you never want to write anything that you wouldn't want the whole world to read, well, because the whole world has access to everything you write online and because it is nearly impossible for anyone to take you seriously when you cannot spell and punctuate your sentences online---just sayin'

Be kind boys and love someone today!!!

Sorry, Greg, I can't help myself; but I think I am still on topic almost---

Oh, and thanks Kiss for letting us all know how much you appreciate all the comments on your comments on greg's hub and also for letting everyone know that you would be getting back to all of us,,,because you come onto hubs to hijack them off into another direction when you find someone who will "engage" you in an effort to try to knock some sense into you---I do my counseling of 20-year-olds for free---so here is some free advice---as I counsel from a place of positive energy and help young people to direct their anger (all of whom are angry) into something that looks like a career---I would passionately recommend that if you are still young that you find your way into (here's the career advice)politics or lobbying or lawyering; but you will need much work on the "researching" part of your career if you choose one of these. You tend to make wild comparisons and get off topic easily---and again, much love to all--analise


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

Comifician is actually Confucianism


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

Oh, I like Confucious' works!!! Thanks,E


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

For some one to be so professional does not sound like it or have good manners toward others .and if I had a choice for some advice first i would not look for you to give it .and I hope no ones parents would make that mistake with you.. first that pic I use, is a pic ! it does not represent me personaly because that is not my race. next It is nice to know people like you try to come off as being nice and proffesional yet you can not read or understand what is being said, and who you are talking to. maybe you have a degree in something .but i can tell you .you need to have a heart to go with it .maybe some one will listen to you if you do have advice to give. Dog collar is that where your mind goes in the gutter! you who are so proffesional.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

A women is holding book . not wearing a dog collar. look closer she is kissing the book .look closer someone else is kissing the book. Just to say I love all people.I use this picture because she is blowing a kiss.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Anjegirl, Thank you for the support. But one note, I do believe Jesus wore sandals, not shoes. ;-) Greg


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

Hi Greg and you're welcome and I do believe Jesus would have been wearing sandals and in that era they would have likely had leather or whale skin bottoms, I think and rope uppers,like macrame'd together,no???

And, nope, Kiss, that still looks like a steel dog collar and this has nothing to do with a mind in the gutter,and you know again, this is not your hub or mine to be trolling on and so I am finished engaging you.When things aren't going your way you quickly resort to name calling and hatred and since this in not yahoo but hubpages, people usually have no problem letting others know their gender, their race, their location,country or state on a regular basis whether on a forum or a hub, but you prefer the "behind the curtain" technique of messing with anyone and everyone who will engage you.

I have more than heart, I have heart and soul and most ppl. who have known me for more than a minute recognize my angelic presence in the world and can hear and feel the love in my funny,sarcastic,truthful commentary on many different kinds of hubs on HP and I work on two other blog sites where I am usually "understood" pretty easily and where I am embraced in love. Love is better than hate and that is what I was trying to get over to you---Much love analise


mthein profile image

mthein 4 years ago from Klamath Falls Oregon

Hey Shawn B, right on to the religion comment. I couldn't love the Lord more, which is why I despise Religion. It is rules made by man, initially of good intent I think, to worship God. But when rules get made, then man in his insatiable quest to belong seeks to follow them. That's when the trouble starts as the leadings of the Holy Spirit get tuned out of someone's life. You can't server two masters; and while Jesus was referring to the love of God vs. the love of money when He said that, it would certainly apply to any master that takes us away from Him. He is a Jealous God, and He wants to be our King, which means we are to seek and follow Him, not submit to man-made rules that seek to ostracize those who do not fit in. It was just those people that Jesus came to save; the folks who needed a physician. When we're stuck in religious legalism, we may actually help the homeless in a feeding program, and that's a magnificent thing; but what that person really needs is Salvation so that their life will change 180 degrees from the transformation of the Spirit. If you aren't very connected to the Spirit because legalism has come between you and It, how can you give away what you don't have in that moment; even if you consider yourself a spirit-led Christian? It's the display of signs and wonders that created the followers of Jesus and His Apostles, yet the church today is largely dead, killed by legalism. People feel safe and comfortable in their beautiful church sanctuaries fellowshipping with their friends, and there's nothing about that that's wrong. He wants us to fellowship and love one another. It's just that bringing salvation through the Good News happens Monday through Saturday. This is respectfully submitted as my own views only and is clearly not directed at any individual. I respect every man's walk and judge no one, but the Lord commands us to seek His Truth and to share it with the world as He gives it to us.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Mthein, not sure why you are preaching to me but to stay on topic of this hub, I think there are just WAY to many authors of the Bible to make me a believer out of it. To many changes and editing going on that to me doesn't hold its originality enough to take it seriously. If it was one author and kept original, I would perhaps believe a little more but im just not easily swayed like that. But that's just me so believe what you will. :


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

Well I will end this spatt .to say you are right I do not know you ,no more then what you have spoken on printed page. toward me .But I try to be humble enough to see the good side of people then finding any ones errors. I would like the same treatment. Next the book is not the color of steel.it is brown.Next I am sorry that you feel the way you do about my comments as though I am a problem ,you made a comment to me first and a statment. next who I am what I am is no problem only to people who want to seperate in judgement. My inner person is more important .Next you use the word Angelic you speak truth there are good ones and bad ones ,you decided which one you where in speech . So what I will say to end this is that a lady always know when to leave !

you leave well with love.


Art 4 years ago

KJV ATW, A good read Greg, thanks for sharing. Jesus Christ by order of God Almighty chose Peter and Paul to take the ministry to all the world and that is the beginning. All along the way things have been tweaked this way or that, but the message is still clear and simple. Repent, sin is your enemy, ask for mercy,and forgiveness for the God of Israel is a merciful God.

Back to the real question asked, 40 or so scribes and very intelligent historians works are brought together to form this precious book known as the BIBLE, basic instructions before leaving earth. It's all about mankind and Jesus Christ the foretold Messiah. That's the best I can do! Very interesting though. Thanks for sharing.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Art, Thank you for the visit and comment. I take it you are not a hubber. But I do appreciate the information. Greg


mthein profile image

mthein 4 years ago from Klamath Falls Oregon

ShawnB - Words don't make believers, experiences do. A man with an argument is at the mercy of a man with an experience every time. If and when we come to Jesus, it is when that timing is right for us and when He calls us. It is the unmistakable acts of God that show up personally in your life that make you really sit up and pay attention. As to the multiple authors thing, I understand your point of view. I hold to the belief that the Bible is the Truth, formed out of many truths, but it was indeed written by man. Just looking at the 4 gospels there are many discrepencies when the 4 authors describe the life of Jesus. Human memory is fallible, but the revelation of God is not. The Bible is the inspired Word of God.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Mthein, You have a very good perception of my hub and you stick to the point. Thank you. Greg


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

Yes I think Mthein has pointed to the true fact that the bible is God's word ,but written by imperfect men. But understanding that God Allowed them to be his secretaries.even imperfect as they may be, other men have been given an honor to write or do a service for God ,they still was given the honor. I think the basic of truth is three or more witnesses ,this good as valid.why he allowed them to write in his behalf when the angles could have , I think it was because humans can understand human reasoning as a witness. example maybe a person who has a speech problem was a witness to an accident ,I do believe even though he has a physical flaw .he still could and some how would give a witness if needed and called by a court.No one would just focus on his speech as much as what he witnessed what he saw.because that is what is more important to the case. All writers of the bible tie in to a common point God himself.The begiining to the end.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

I think this is still on topic; why does there need to be a Bible? The rules of ethical and moral living are part of the original template God created from which we evolved; these ideas don't need to be written down because they are our conscience, if you will.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

Out of God's widom he used tablets of laws with the Jews .For a reason. and yet he did this with this with scolls ,later compiled into the bible. I guess that is the same as why the goverment use new lawbooks for taxes .because our imperfection of the use of our brain can only function at a %

who on this earth is a 100% in use of his brain. if so you would be right we would not need a book

our mind could hold all info and apply it at a 100% Adam and Eve did not have a book ,Adam talked directly to God himself. And true he only had the law that it was wrong to take what did not belong to you. And that God had the write to tell him what was good and bad for him. like we do as parents .we do not assume our kidds know right from wrong we tell them .or in the real life of this world, man has laws written also not to break not counting on us as humans to know all ,but they expect us to live by or else thats where prisons come from.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

So Kiss, back to Greg's question, how do you know God used those tablets, which scrolls are you talking about, and why would God only choose the Jews to share this information with and make promises to; aren't we all God's children?

All those examples you used where a written record is required are all man-made technicalities; they aren't the fundamental moral ideas of right and wrong which constitute our conscience, and from which all those other rules flow; including those that appear on those tablets and scrolls you speak of. BTW, studies do show that babies at a very young age, before the ability to read or speak, have ideas about right and wrong.

Mthein or Shawn, are either of you Pantheists by chance?


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

Well it is simple how do you know it is wrong to kill ,steal , commit sexual sins ,take others rights Do you really think man came up with these Ideas by himself.? most basic laws even man made comes from those first laws ,still active today. Yes we are all Gods people ,but the Jews back then where under the name isrealites,remember they where slaves under phar'aoh of Egypt and at that time God chose them a poeple he would use for a great purpose ,that benifit us today. first he delivered them from phar'aoh hand .and he would give them a land of milk and honey, the promise land. God chose them not because they where better then others because they need more attention and they where a stubborn people, like a teacher who has very good students ,but there are students that need more personal attention. they got it and with many blessings ,yet they turned away to worship other Gods for selfish reasons,manytimes .Gods plan was to send a cure for our dreaded desease death and sickness .the cure was paid for by his son .the family tree of Jews will lead you back to Jesus. Next they would have had the priveledge of ruling with christ in power for our new goverment ,they forfitted it when they had a hand in killing Gods son.Now the Goverment is still in force under Jesus and spiritual Jews you could say ,like an adoption to replace the unfaithful ones. the new testment is a witness to the change.Next any promise God has made will come true ,Just as death true as a curse because of Adam and Eve ,Dust you are and dust you will return. this is truth at death. Now we have a hope to rid death forever ,why his son died for a reason ,for us to live longer than trees and animals and given what Adam and Eve gave away to live forever under God's goverment under paradise conditions. We all as humans will benfit if we learn to appreciate what has been done in our behalf ,like some one who donates thier kidney or vital organ to save a life ,Jesus death saved more then Jews and others ,He covered the tab for all humans who would appreciate the gift of his life Given for us.


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

Hi all,

Things seem to have simmered down and everyone is back on topic and I just have to say that in spite of the fact that I know the King James version of the Bible doesn't look much like the original versions I still know that this is a book that has brought millions if not billions of ppl. to a place of "knowing" God and that it will always be on earth until or unless we all learn to love Him as our Heavenly Father and until we all learn to love one another and Kiss we don't turn to dust at all----I died: I went to Heaven: I was still in the same 23 yr.old body that I left earth in and my spirit was not dust----and we have been and will continue to reincarnate in physical bodies until Heaven is a final resting place.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

Hi Anjegirl . that is nice you shared that experience with us , You believe in God"s word the bible that is great ,than I would like to share some scriptures with you. Genesis 3:19 says dust you are and dust you will return.We are Adams and Eves offspring.will all can die. Next what happens at death ,the bible tells us at Ecclesiastes 9:5 (" for the living are conscious that they will die: but as for the dead they are conscious of nothing at all") have you ever been fainted or been knocked out ,someone had to tell you what happen . In your case from what the bible is saying you where conscious so you where not dead. I living force the breath of life is active in us . Like a candle the light is lit .once blown out the candles sease to function . God and his son is the only ones who can return that light back or life force. Jesus showed the example with Lazarus is friend. Read the story. Lazarus was resurrected here on earth not heaven. So will be the future for many who have died ,but not now on this crime filled and polluted earth ,must first be cleaned off.@peter 3:13 and acts 24:15. I do not doubt you experience somthing but you where not dead.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

My computer tend to skip letters 2peter 3:13 .


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

you mention that babies know certain things, already this is true I am at present with my two month grandson .so smart yet so weak to not know when it is enough to stop eating. I have to take the bottle from him he is actualy trying to drink like a toddler. So I have to make that decission for him when to stop. The bible say says children will be weaker and wiser .true now babies come with eyes open .my first child took a week to fully open, she is 37 now. there is a great difference but the bible has not failed in phophe,cy. We are living in final part.


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

Kiss

If you read my first comment here and several others that I have made here, you would know that I do know that the KJVersion from which you quote CANNOT be taken literally on any level and gave reference as to why that is and yet I agree with other commenters that the love has been carried down in many ways through that book. Also, in the many deleted or lost books of the bible that men chose to leave out of the KJVersion altogether, reincarnation is talked about ad infinitum and until only a few centuries ago most all of the worlds religions knew of and believed in reincarnation and many religions around the world still teach it and many people who are being taught that they will return to dust in or out of churches also believe in reincarnation.

In addition, there are hundreds of books on the market that have been being published worldwide about ppl. dying and going to heaven most of whom come back and ARE believers in what they saw and heard and experienced while they were dead down here on earth to include the fact that they know that we are all here to love one another and until or unless we do----we will reincarnate and we do it in physical bodies just like here on earth and there is no dust. As I have said here, I have studied the history of the Bible for four decades and believe anyone who reads it and takes it literally and quotes biblical phrases needs to study the history of the Bible to know that the KJVersion cannot be taken literally and should not be quoted as being literal because it is not a literal or accurate rendition that is even close to the originals.

Having said that---I still believe it is the greatest book ever written and rewritten and translated into other languages and edited in the world and I believe that we should not get rid of it just because it is not a literal rendition of that which God gave us originally.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

I'm more or less an atheist. If I had choose something to believe in it would be evolution. Seems more realistic than fantasy to me. Its like this, wars over religion is like kids fighting over who's imaginary friend is tougher. Hope that answers your question.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

well if you do not read the king James and I do understand because we do not talk that type of english ,But if you did take the time and study the hebrew and greek sciptures you would get the the same meaning. I did not read from the king james when I gave you that verse I only gave you that ,because most peolple are raised from that bible. if you notice It did not have the these and thous quoted. still There is nowhere and show me a scripture that says you reincarnate to something else ,Give me proof from the bible some one change into another life. if you can not show me ,then you are asking me to take your word over God himself.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

there is no fight here because I am 100% sure of what I say and believe ! I answer the question .and a person does not have to agree . when people dissagree which that is their free will to. To others it seem like argument , like you know if you are a man or not ! but some ones judges you different but they are not you. they can think what they want but the truth lies with you. The same with the word of God it does not change the princples the history and the future weather we believe it or not.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

You say Imaginary friend ,is like saying you breath imaginary air . you can not see air but it keeps you living. So it is with he who created that invisalbe substance air you breath.


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

If you google "reincarnation in the bible" you will pull up exactly 13,700,000 websites all of which contain boatloads of scriptures about the subject---the first site that comes up is

www.near-death.com/experience/origen03. which lists lots of scripture regarding this topic and Jesus told his disciples that John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah the Prophet and the Secret teachings of Jesus which were found in 1942 in Egypt in which Jesus himself taught about reincarnation. It was because of the secret teachings of Jesus the Roman Church declared Jesus a "heretic" and why they went after him among many reasons was because he was teaching reincarnation and just in this one first article you can find lots of scripture regarding Jesus teaching reincarnation---I am sure you will find the same stuff in the other 13,700,000 sites that come up when you google it---the Catholics were the first to preach that it does not exist---man changed this not God


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

you are telling me to google , I want you to give me a scripture Like I gave you. supose I did not have a computer. show me from the bible at hand .of reincarnation. I am asking you not google.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

You are all doing very well on your discussions. I just have one thing to say at this point. Kiss,if you didn't have a computer you would not be in this conversation. Greg


anjegirl profile image

anjegirl 4 years ago from Myrtle Beach,SC

I refuse to quote scripture as I know it is not the written word of God or Jesus and I have said this like a million times now and You need to know that "We can't always get what we want," and most ppl. learn this as children and I am sooo not that girl who can be made to do anything because you do and just because you are not asking me to google does not allow you to demand a certain kind of behavior from me and it is laughable how forceful and crazy you can be and as greg has said the majority of ppl. will at least google it first just to check if there are that exact number of websites from which to get scripture on the subject and I listed some history about Jesus that you skipped over while refusing to google reincarnation in the bible-----and again, I don't read your scriptures because they are not gospel and history doesn't lie and there are millions of websites to look up the history of the bible and I recommended that you go to wikipedia before and read about the history of the bible===and again, I say that I don't have time to banter but it has been fun---

greg, will continue to read your other hubs and this was a great piece---and love the "computor" thing---you're fun and I like your "real" way of starting unintended fires---and watching them burn--analise


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Hi Analise, I do appreciate your visits, comments and even discussions. But I have pointed out one thing here, unintendedly, that differences in opinions of religion, or lack of, can start heated discussions, battles and even escalate into wars. And all of this is because no two people really think alike. Also, it shows that people DO still have a tendancy to NOT be followers. Luckily we still have strong wills out there. The only problem is, everyone needs to be able to let others stay that way and not try to make others believe the same way they believe. This holds true to politics. Again, I want to thank all who have, and hopefully will continue, discussing this subject. Just discuss, don't get upset because someone doesn't see things, or believe, the same way you do. Greg


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

The words and thoughts that are quoted from the bible(s) are parroted by the followers of a religion. They are not independent thoughts, they are quotes.

For those people that believe the bibles set the way, they should realize that by the time that the individual documents that would become the bible in the 1400s, societies existed. That means that laws, like stealing and killing were already in existence in the world.

Religion like being a loyal political party voter is abdicating your independent thinking to another body.

Belief and truth don't make facts out of fiction.

People are eager to quote scripture until you ask them a question that scripture has no answers.

Then they say, it doesn't matter, I say that then their quotes don't matter either.

? How many Angels Exist

The scripture has no specific answer?


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

First of all do you know ther are angles,the bible tells you so ,if you do not accept the anwers already given then you do not accept any answer given. Mr.Radmasters.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Why is it that nobody can accept that someone either follows the Bible or doesn't believe in the Bible and its content. It really doesn't matter who wrote the Bible. If someone wants to believe the words, then so be it. It isn't up to another person to disprove and sway their beliefs and vice versa. Greg


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

To Anjegirl

Again that is your free will , When I make a statment and you answer it ,with your answer as to say i am not correct, like the dust ,then I exspect you to exsplain . because right now you have turned it around that I am the bad guy for asking what you have openly gave and stated. when you can not exsplain something you put off on other people to get the answer ,First I already know where you get the meaning reincarnation.I do know something about it ,I wanted you to tell me .

not google wich is man made .Again when you have a problem talking to people on your believe it is easy to attack another for not agreeing with you. you are doing that to me each time.

I ask a simple question ,you called me crazy and forceful for asking .again it was your statment not mine.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Actually, they made a machine that does see air now. Its not so invisible anymore. Just sayin...


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

I am glad you can ,because soon people will see him too, but I hope for the best .


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

thtats just saying that all things do not stay invisible. you have spoken truth.


mthein profile image

mthein 4 years ago from Klamath Falls Oregon

My Esoteric- I'm definitely NOT a Pantheist, but a Disciple of Christ and a Born Again Christian. ShawnB - You have the same concerns everyone does about religion, and they are absolutely valid. Religionists like to banter back and forth about what is right and wrong with their belief structures, when those who are not believers (but curious or you wouldn't be here) sit back and observe this. When your heart and life has not yet been filled by Jesus and you have not received His Spirit, the Bible is not very relevant and can seem like nonsense. Jesus even said that. It was nonsense to me for years. I was raised in legalism (Episcopalian), and while I at least believed, God and Jesus were very far from my life. I did not read the Bible. Then 01-19-07 I received a miraculous Holy Spirit Baptism, which if you're interested you can read about in Acts 2. After that, my whole orientation was different and I hungered for the things of God. I hungered for the Word, and it now made sense to me. I can just tell you, Shawn, that you will not find God in a Bible debate. You will find Him in your life struggles, when you feel lost or abandoned by those who you thought were your friends. What I can tell you from experience is that when that time comes for you and you ask him for help, He will ALWAYS respond, even before you ever receive His Spirit. I had a "call in the marker" relationship with God for decades, because I didn't need a bunch of religious and judgmental Bible thumpers telling me how to live my life. Someone was talking about our conscience, and it's true that we are all given one by God to discern right from wrong. I was raised with love. I was a good person, so I didn't need God except when times were hard. In His magnificent Grace, each and every time I asked Him for help through the first 49 years of my life He answered my call. He does indeed have a plan for each and every one of us, and that plan is unique for you. I was not supposed to be saved until I was 49 years old. Now at 54, He is just beginning to reveal why that is the case. Us big-brained humans crave to know the answers to why and what when it comes to God, but the Truth is that none of us will ever know that, because He is God, and He is the sovereign of the universe that He created. So don't get caught up by all those trying to "save" you. They can't save you; they do not have the power. Only He does. In your quiet place and at the right time, talk to Him. He will always listen and always respond, for He is faithful.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

The only person that can save you is "you" yourself. And that is by doing what is right for you, whether it is to shoose to follow a God or follow your heart where ever it may lead you. Greg


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

that is so true .we fly the plane , but God holds the map. rather we follow that map is up to us. Many people have thier own maps saying this is the best way to get their . yet many maps leave important info out and you are lead the wrong way. but it is up to you to accept what god has given us to use it for our journey to everlasting life.


gregas profile image

gregas 4 years ago from Corona, California. Author

OK, if everyone has their own maps, and not actually one of God's maps, then why can't they follow their own map and not have someone trying to put different lines on that map? Quit trying to make everybody "sheep" or "lambs" that have to be followers. Greg


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

kt

you said"First of all do you know ther are angles,the bible tells you so ,if you do not accept the anwers already given then you do not accept any answer given. Mr.Radmasters."

I don't believe the bible, but you do and in it are the angels. but I asked you to ask your word of God for the simple answer to a logical question.

How many Angels exist?

Greg

I don't understand your last comment. It appears that your comments are all over the place.

If would be helpful is you put your opinion in the summary.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

I appreciate your comments and you seem pretty down to earth regarding religion. But, I have had a pretty rough life to the point some have told me I should write a book about it. Not once did I ever pray or seek God to help me through. Me and me alone got myself through my turmoils. Although it seems as though God helped you in yours he did not. You did. Give yourself credit for it. I'm very proud of myself for what I've accomplished. You should too.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

It is up To God almighty to decide who is a sheep or lamb or goat, but the bible tells us that Jesus set the example of love ,he did no hold back in speaking the truth .yes many had their own maps of believe when he was here on earth , yet that did not stop him from sharing the truth ,like the sermon on the mount. because our future is just not saving ouselfs but to share and enlighten others to the true treasure of everlasting life , that is what Jesus ment when he said you must love your neighbor as

yourself .If you claim to love God Matthew (22:37 )then the other greatest is to love your neighbor .

I feel that very much when I make a comment. Because what good would it be to know what is right and not speak up. like knowing people are going down the road of hidden land mines ,and you have been given the info to save lifes .would you keep silent or would you warn those and help them to safety, if not you can become bloodguilt by God Almighty.Ezekiel 3:17 -20 would you have said that to Jesus stop trying to make people sheep or lambs? I only say what he would want me to.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

I appreciate your comments and I too have had things to happen to me say as a young person ,but I do thank God I made it through the battle line . that now I learned why things happened to me ,it was not his fault only the one who will try to stop you from what God wants to give you for all the pain and suffering you have went though.the one that causes all our pain is satan ,a fallen angle who has lost his place with God !now he is trying very hard to decieve many to loose there hope ,of a real life of happiness. Have you ever seen some one who tries to beat you out a Job by lying to you. so he will not get it ,or make you think someone else has a chance you don't ,Satan has used many religions and other means to confuse people .You are important to God Almighty. many times good things happen for us ,but not under our power,God 's own son came to earth and suffered under the hands of wicked people and demons .yet God could had sent his amy of angles to rescue him. HIs purpose had to be done for us to have this gift of hope .

Jesus paid your ticket in with his life .All you have to do is accept it .A new heavens and a New earth . No demons no wicked people .2peter3:13 and the ones that have died your love ones who sleep in death. returned to you ,John 5:28 and John 11:25 .


charles wade profile image

charles wade 4 years ago from Chicago, Illinois

Are you sure it was you and you alone ShawnB2011. Maybe you ought to take a closer look at your life to be sure.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

I answered your question on how many angles, I gave you scripture .if you do not believe in the bible what is the point of you asking a question from bible you do not believe in. Find my post and you will get the answer if you really want to know if not ,you are keeping up confussion.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

kt

You didn't answer how many? That requires an actual answer.

My point is that scripture is not the truth, and it has no real facts in it.

This was your answer

"First of all do you know ther are angles,the bible tells you so ,if you do not accept the anwers already given then you do not accept any answer given. Mr.Radmasters."

Where is the number of ANGELS?

Does anyone have the answer?

Anyone!


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

I would be between ShawnB and Mthein. While I am not a born-again anything, I have always known God exists, I just wasn't clear in what form until about 10 years ago; now, I am very comfortable in my knowledge in how it all works and what role God plays and what role I play; Jesus doesn't come into the equation other than as a preacher.

I have stated that belief in earlier comments but to apply it to what Shawn and Mthein, as well as Charles just presented, it works like this: I to had a rather piss-poor life from high-school until my 50s, mostly self-inflicted alcoholism. Unlike Shawns view, I didn't recover alone, but, unlike Mthein, I didn't find God, or rely on God, heck, I didn't even think about God that much when I recovered. What I do believe, since I can't know, is that God created the Universe and everything in it, which includes me; every bit of me both physical and mental. Consequently, God created the where-with-all within me to heal myself. Do I understand how I did this, no. Did I have an enlightening experience like Mthein did, no. I just fell into a deep, 9 month-long depression where I stopped doing just about everything, including drinking, except going to work; when I came out of it, I had no huge desire begin drinking again, only a small one, and had the will power to keep it that way; that was 14 years ago.

Did Jesus have anything to with this, not a chance. Did the God of the Bible, which ever one you happen to believe is the real one, have anything to do with, not a chance either. It was the God who was responsible for creating the template which the Universe followed in its evolution since the Big Bang that gave me the ability to overcome my infirmity.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

To Mr. Radmasters I gave you the answer earlier in my comments for the last time I will give this answer and if you ignor me again I will not respond to yo anymore.

the Answer can be found in Daniel 7:10 ,Hebrews 12:22,Jude 14.

there are thousands of thousands of Angels. that are posted for duties.

there are ten thousands X ten thousands that minister to God almighty.

That is your numbers that is the scriptures. I will not repeat this to you again. and others on this post will witness I gave you the answer.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

To Mr Esoteric how do you really know that maybe sometimes. in your life God did call on you. his ways are not yours. God is a spiritual body like the example of air not seen but it keeps us alive. Life is precious and God allows us to take in everything we need to live .man has destroyed many of our needs here on earth by pollution. Maybe a day that something bad could have happen to you it did not. someone was ahead of you .in protection. not saying all will have protection but this happens .We all experience good and bad , sometimes we cause our own problems by doing things that would cause harm to others or ourself .but that does not mean that God is not there.

he allows us to make our misstakes and learn from them ,some of us know wrong from right ,but we will do wrong anyway. God will not protect you for that. But He can forgive and continue to help you better yourself. there is nothing in the bible that is not good for you only how to stay healthy ,

clean from germs of unclean acts , and taking things that we have no right to take. anthing over done like over eating over drinking, and certain other things He tells us how to have a clean mind and bodies. What people are afraid of is that they might see something in the bible they can not live up to or will not give up for a good standing and clean conseous before God. we all are imperfect .that means we cannot be perfect. that means God knows that ,and he does know what we can do.He is still loving us besides the mis use of his name that so many people have label him and he still even allow us a chance to get to know him each day we breath and awaken. Get to know him .not based on what others say but try from your heart . You have feelings and so does he. this is a treasure that will not always to get .To live on a clean earth free from money and problems and wickedness. Isaiah 65:22 -25 that could be you.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Wade. Yes I'm pretty confident it was me and not God. Never heard a voice, never saw em in a dream and never seen any signs of him or it or whatever you prefer to call God. I'm proud of myself that I and I express the letter I got out of the situation I was in. Sorry but most believers give God to much credit when they should give it to themselves more.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

God is perfect I am not .I make misstakes God can undo all the problems and the hurt and wrong done. I trust in that .I can not ad a day to my life .I trust in God for the next day. If my life end its still in his hands what happens .I can not awaken myself from death.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Ok kiss. We get that you are a believer but just know that other people have different views. All good in the Hood my friend. Cheers.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

Mr ShawnB2011 you are correct ,others do and have a right to trheir choice .But it could never be said that the choice was never there to choose from. with love Kiss


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Kiss... you sound more like Confucius than a Christian or whatever the hell you believe in. If there's salt there's pepper right? Lol.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Listen, I've come from a law enforcement background so I focus on facts not hearsay. So here are the facts: 1- God himself didn't write the Bible. 2- fact... people wrote the Bible. 3- nobody knows exactly what there mindset was when they wrote it. 4- nobody knows there intent. 5- fact... there is no actual proof of God except mans word ( we all know how reliable that is right?) 6- the Bible wasn't written by just one but by many. 7- not a single shred of physical evidence that anyone from the Bible ever even existed.

All that said... is the reason I don't and cannot believe in the Bible.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 4 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

You see Kiss, that is where you and I differ in our concept of God, you think that God and humanity are two different things and I don't; Nature and God, to me, are one in the same, because God created it all; said a another way, Nature is what God is in physical form.

Was there some sort of template that God created from which we all emerge? I think so, it is called the Big Bang, or at least the instant before; you call it the Bible and it post-dates my template by 13.75 billion years.

I suspect ShawnB believes in the Big Bang as well because it is now established science. The only real difference, I think, between he and I is that the name I put to what came before the Big Bang is God, and I call the organization of whatever it was that suddenly expanded that ended up partly becoming me, the "template" that God created. Shawn, on the other hand, puts no name to it at all, which is just as reasonable, and is waiting to see what develops next.


charles wade profile image

charles wade 4 years ago from Chicago, Illinois

Shawn, Living in a nuclear world filled with people who have seriously powerful, extremely different ideologies and remarkably ambitious motivation to use force as a means to accomplish their goals allows me to consider the possibility that a restraining power does exist beyond our current knowledge.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

Yeah I can see how you could view it that way Wade. Nothing wrong in believing in such a way. As for myself... I give credit where credit is due. Anybody who has decided to change their lives around for the better I give props to the person because he or she as a human made those decisions with their brains to do it. To me its not gods work, its human ambition, thoughts and abilities and not from a mysterious force.


ShawnB2011 profile image

ShawnB2011 4 years ago from Arizona

All I gotta say is that the brain is completely fascinating to me. If I told myself over and over and over and over again that my dog is a God and I should worship it as such, after awhile my brain will will be convinced that my dog is a God simply because I tricked it to do so. To me that's incredible. That analogy is how I view religion. Most people are exposed to it at a very early age and been told repeatedly during their lifetime that God is real so naturally their brains accept that as pure truth and nothing anyone could say could change that. The human brain has a funny way of working doesn't it?


mthein profile image

mthein 4 years ago from Klamath Falls Oregon

ShawnB - You are absolutely RIGHT; there is not ONE SHRED of PROOF that God exists. This is a true statement of many things in our world. Does love exist? Well, most people believe it does. Is that because of some kind of scientific proof that established it's authenticity? None that I know of. We know love is real simply because we experience it. The same is true for God. If it ever happens to you, you are just one experience away from knowing that God is real. All this debate is useless really, except for people to prove how much they know or to express their heartfelt belief one way or another. As I said before, debating God will NEVER lead us to God. As I also said before, a man with an argument is at the mercy of a man with an experience each and every time. I know that God exists, as do no doubt some of the other "believers" here, because our experiences have been different. Truth is all about perception, and perception comes from our experiences. Why do some have half full and others have half empty glasses in life? This whole area of "Bible scholarship" that is called apologetics, in my view, is nothing more than verbal diarrhea that just cements people into their respective belief corners. God is displayed through the giving of love, first and foremost. Yes, as believers we are to share the Good News, but not force feed it to someone. How many people on this planet don't already know the Jesus story anyway? Our role as believers in Christ is about giving our love to everyone, holding no account of wrongs suffered, and judging no one. It's easy in a passionate debate to lose sight of the beliefs that we hold so dear.


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

you have explained yourself very well ,and that is your choice ,or free will ,so I end with this thought . the point is that I do not see you personaly , I do not really have proof that you are there,just words on a screen ,that are saying something ,A story was revealed about a life ,is this true or not because I never seen you a day in my life .can I trust this computer to tell me you exist.after all this machine is man made. Yet you know that you are real.I give you that respect .just to say that you are there. and you exist ,because someone birth you, that is to say ,You are proof of creation and design.you are like no other. your DNA says so ,the thought is the same ,rather you believe or not, does not change the history or what is to come . But we can take a closer look at the subject to be sure .because a choice is vital to life. thanks for your feed backs .this is my last comment on the suject .love to all. Kiss and tales.


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

kt

thousands of thousands is not an answer to my question.

even using the bible quote, how much is one third of the Angels.

I know that it will be your last answer because you didn't answer the question.

If someone asks you to tell them how many senators there are in the US Senate, what would be your answer? You can get your answer from reference books in the library, or the Internet, but you would have an exact answer.

checkmate


Kiss andTales profile image

Kiss andTales 4 years ago

To you for the last time this is not a debate or to proof who is wrong or right. because to you there is no write answer ,and the point of how many angles is not important. I gave you a answer. that is not good enough for you . this is my last answer to you ,because you are looking for negative things. What is important is the future .You are not interested in. Good bye


ib radmasters profile image

ib radmasters 4 years ago from Southern California

kt

If you don't know the truth about the past, how are you going to know the future?

bye


MickeySr profile image

MickeySr 3 years ago from Hershey, Pa.

I understand your numbered list is a list of statements you found on various online sites and not necessarily assertions that you yourself are advancing, nevertheless, I would like to comment on just a few of these notions:

"A group of bishops at Carthage in 397AD “assembled” the Bible"

This is simply a poor reading of the historic record. Christian doctrine, articulated statements of the teaching of Christianity, came about (even in the New Testament) as the truth commonly held was assaulted by false teaching . . . in other words the idea of, say, the divinity of Jesus, was the normal and common understanding of the church but was only formulated as a doctrinal declaration as that orthodox teaching began to be undermined by wrong teaching. The historic creeds and later the denominational confessions were not circumstances of authorities making-up church dogma, they were instances of the church defining and asserting what had long been believed as false teachers began to advance other teaching.

The Council Of Carthage didn't 'assemble the Bible', they documented what the church had long understood to be the books that formed the Bible when some (Arians & Gnostics, etc) asserted other non-canonical books should be included.

"The New Testament (modern Christian Bible) was written in the 14th century by Emperor Constantine and his council"

Constantine was in fact a capable translator, but all he did was to issue an order that new, standardized Bibles be produced for the churches of the empire . . . some regions had the books in different positions and some regions included some of those non-Biblical texts. He himself did not work on the standardized texts, he merely administered that all the empire's churches should have Bibles with the same books in the same order, etc . . . there was no new Bible produced.

"Unfortunately, the copying of earlier texts, leaving some out, making some up, introduced many errors and inconsistencies in the modern Christian Bible."

This simply is not factual. We have today enough non-Biblical texts (personal letters, sermons, commentaries, etc) from 1st century Christians, men who were students of John & Peter, etc, that quote Scripture, so that without even going to actual Bibles of those days but only referring to those non-Biblical documents we can put together the entire NT and nearly all of the OT - and it is the same text that we have today. The common and popular 'telephone game' notion that the Bible we have today must certainly have been altered by being handed down through so many generations, and/or been altered by design by corrupt officials wanting to control the masses, etc, is simply demonstrably not the case - the Bible we have today is essentially the same Bible that the first Christians had.


Healthyannie profile image

Healthyannie 3 years ago from Spain

I think the Bible brings out the best in people and the worst.

First of all Emperor Constantine ruled between 306 - 337 AD.

The stories in the bible are very much in complete as many manuscripts have been deselected from the Bible over the years depending on who wishes to benefit from the Bible. The Coptic Bible and faith is probably closer to Jesus' s teachings. None of the apostles actually wrote anything as at the time scribes copied down stories which they had heard. Much of the information is open for interpretation and the Exodus account is can be disputed. Great hub and thought provoking.


MickeySr profile image

MickeySr 3 years ago from Hershey, Pa.

Healthyannie ~ "many manuscripts have been deselected from the Bible over the years depending on who wishes to benefit from the Bible. The Coptic Bible and faith is probably closer to Jesus' s teachings. None of the apostles actually wrote anything"

Honestly, I'm not trying to be rude or combative, but none of that is in fact true. There were not 'many manuscripts deselected from the Bible' - there were from time to time those who held that 'this' book that was not recognized part of the canon should be included or 'that' book which was recognized part of the canon should be excluded, and there were many non-Biblical writings always around (letters of Clement, a gospel of Thomas, spurious letters of Paul forged by Gnostics, etc) and so some look back today and reason that these were books removed from the Bible etc, but they were never received by the church as Scripture in the first place.

"The Coptic Bible and faith is probably closer to Jesus' s teachings" ~ there are a great variety of variant Coptic texts, there is not a concordant Coptic Bible but is debate over what should be included and excluded and the proper translation . . . many of the ancient Coptic texts were translated from the Septuagint, the apostle's Greek translation of the OT. There is no textual or archeological or historic reason to assume the Coptic texts are closer to Jesus' teaching - it is simply a romantic notion that offers some 'secret truth' that dumb old American Christians don't know about as they gobble-up whatever their Sunday School teacher tells them. If the Bible had not been commonly received and the historically orthodox Scripture text for Christianity, then folks would be far more favorable to 'unlock the mysteries' of this ancient Palestinian text from the time of Jesus - but because boring old American Christianity historically counts it the canon of the true faith, folks prefer to scratch around Gnostic & Coptic texts asserting that conniving Christian bishops excised them long ago . . . that simply is not the historic reality.

"None of the apostles actually wrote anything" - we know that there are some of Paul's letters that he dictated to a 'secretary' (Luke, Timothy, etc) and some of the other apostles may have likewise employed scribes, but there's no reason to assume and assert that none of the apostles actually ever wrote anything . . . however, even if they had not, the letters that bear their names are still their work, they are not forgeries or plagiarisms, etc, the letters to Rome and Philippi, etc, are Paul's own letters (whether he held the pen or not) as are John's letters, Peter's, etc.


forall profile image

forall 3 years ago

Hi Greg. Attracting tittle! Intending to read the comments to follow the discussion and read the others' opinions. Thanks for sharing yours :)


Healthyannie profile image

Healthyannie 3 years ago from Spain

I am so surpised to learn there is no Coptic Bible. Oh what is this is my hand . . . a Coptic Bible. I am glad you agree that many of the prophet's writing were dictated to scribes as historic records show.

Copticism is not a secret truth and has never claimed to be, it is one the many forms of Christianity.There are records to support some of the historic claims in the Bible but the record of the Exodus and Moses differ greatly if you compare the Biblical record and Egyptian records. In Islam Jesus is a prophet and his teachings are very similar to some Coptic belief systems. Many texts were removed, and yes not even submitted, however modern records show texts to have been removed.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 3 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

I would have to disagree, MickeySr, there is very little original documents surviving from the time of Christ to reconstruct much of anything from it. The most complete history that is available are the Dead Sea Scrolls, somewhere btw 350 BCE and 82 CE (some of it had to that late because parts of Mark were found).

There was, at the time, a furious battle between East and West Catholics as to what the "right" teachings ought to be; from that came the canonical bible, the agreed upon books, from among many, which the Western Catholic church ordains to be the word of God; the Eastern Orthodox Catholic church doesn't use the same set of books, but is just as legitamate.

Further, none of the writings represent what Jesus really was, just what Peter and Paul wanted him to be in order to sell Christianity to the masses. Christ never thought of himself as God or the son of God. You don't find any reference to that in Mark or Mathew and possibly not Luke. It is only in John does that idea pop up. Until then, Jesus was only a prophet who believed he was chosen to lead God's Kingdom on earth, when the time came. There was no such thing as Christianity, at the time and shortly after Christ's death. There is a reasonable chance, Jesus was an Esseene Jew, from whom some scholar's posit Christians came from; the similarities are fascinating.


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 3 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

Just for grins and giggles, I looked it up. There are 10 documents included in the Catholic Bible that are not contained in the one accepted in the West by Protestants. There four more books missing from the Catholic Bible that are included in the Greek Orthodox Bible, and there are an additional 19 not contained in any of the three main Christian bibles. Seems like there is picking and choosing going on to me.


Healthyannie profile image

Healthyannie 3 years ago from Spain

My Estoric - yes that agrees with current evidence and info available. Pick and choose to sell religion. Christianity was not mentioned until 500 -800 af


Talk N Share profile image

Talk N Share 3 years ago

Hello Greg, I was checking out your Hub, saw this piece and decided to read it. I was also going to read all the comments, but time doesn't permit me to do that just now. I expect you got a lot of feedback-- some good-- some not so good. To answer your question-- many people wrote it over thousands of years, all inspired by God, which means He told them what to say. I believe God did it this way so no one could say a man wrote it and therefore it might not be true. The interesting thing about this is the fact that even though the writers didn't know each other and couldn't compare notes, they all wrote basically the same things, because God was the actual Author. To know and understand the Bible, you need to read it for yourself. The KJV is the most popular and is truly a beautiful version, but I believe you'll get the most good from the NIV, since it is the way we talk today and therefore much easier to understand. May God Bless you, Greg, as you search for truth in His word.


Jackie Lynnley profile image

Jackie Lynnley 3 years ago from The Beautiful South

I personally think if you read searching for the truth you will find it. I would never twist words to fit my wants since my want is to know the truth. I am amazed how bible study brings about questions you did not know you had and answers you never dreamed to find. Surely God would bring the truth to His own. Even the Devil believes in God...that is certainly not enough.

Great write. Food for thought. ^


Cantuhearmescream profile image

Cantuhearmescream 3 years ago from New York

Gregas,

This hub and question has obviously inspired a lot of answers. Would you like to work on the question that my daughter has been asking me for the last few years next; "If God made us, then who made God?". I worked on my Bachelor's degree at a Private Christian University and all I ever got out of students, professors and research is; "He just is". Is there any deeper answer than that?


gregas profile image

gregas 3 years ago from Corona, California. Author

That is also good food for thought as Jackie said about this hub. I will give it some thought and do some research by asking different people for their opinions. Thank you all for your visits and comments. Greg


Levertis Steele profile image

Levertis Steele 3 years ago from Southern Clime

"My feelings are that, first of all, it doesn’t matter who wrote the Bible. The Bible has been here for many years and has given a lot of people inspiration and a reason to believe that life and love are worthwhile.

"It is also my belief that even if you don’t believe in the Bible you can still live a happy and loving life. But the Bible does have a lot of interesting stories.

"Back to the reason I wrote this article; no matter who wrote or who was involved in the writing of the Bible, there are good points there and the Bible should be respected. The words in the Bible should never be twisted or interpreted to fit evil deeds."

Greg, your summation is too thorough for me to add another word. Well said!


My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric 3 years ago from Keystone Heights, FL

"Who created God"; the eternal question which your daughter stumbled on, Cantuhearmescream. The answer ultimately must be, regardless how you believe in God, or don't believe for that matter, that something created itself.

One can ask the question of who created the rock in front of us; our minds can grasp that question ... to a point. When you answer that, then you ask who created whatever it was that created the rock, and so forth until you get the great conundrum in the sky.

However, ask the same question about the triangle. How do you answer that? A triangle isn't a "thing" per se, like a rock is, but it is just as real. It exists in concept, as an idea that if three lines interect such that the interior angles sum up to 180 degrees on a two-demensional surface, then you have a triangle, otherwise, you don't, it appears out of nowhere and disappears the same way.

You can grasp a triangle, if it is made of some hard materieal, or you can perceive a triangle if the contrails of three high-flying airplanes happen to intersect in a certain way, but you certainly can't grasp it; nevertheless, it is still a triangle; for a while at least. God is like that triangle to me.


Cantuhearmescream profile image

Cantuhearmescream 3 years ago from New York

My Esoteric,

That is the perfect word for it; conundrum! I guess I just feel silly, I get to act like I know everything, or just about, to my kids but I just sit there with my mouth wide open and near drooling when my daughter asks me that question. It's the one thing that I can't babble my way through. I say, I really don't know honey, He just is. I guess I thought there was a better answer than that because I admit, I am not very knowledgable about the Bible. Thank you again


gregas profile image

gregas 3 years ago from Corona, California. Author

If you read any of the earlier comments I am sure you noticed that the question I asked startedquite a bit of discussion and some arguments.

The one thing I can't understand is, "why can't people just let others believe the way they want instead of always having to argue the point?".

If wveryone would just live their life the way they chose and quit crticizing others this world would be a lot happier place to live.

The really sad part is that religion isn't trhe only topic that gets that. Some people want to make everyone THINK their way about everything. Just my opinion, Greg.


Cantuhearmescream profile image

Cantuhearmescream 3 years ago from New York

gregas,

I couldn't agree more. There is a difference between someone who is looking for answers and someone who already finds comfort in the beliefs they already have. My thoughts are; whatever makes you sleep at night and keeps your mind at ease, works for me. I am the last person to qoute the Bible because I don't know it well enough and the last thing you want to do is quote the Bible wrong; that'll really offend some people. However, I think the Bible is open to interpretation and I don't know that there really is a right answer, each person gets out of the Bible what they get out of the Bible. While working on my Bachelor's degree I was taking an Honor's Poetry class and I love, love, love interpeting poetry. So many times I would find these deep meanings through the coded poems and I would wonder how other people arrived at their simple conclusions, but ya know what? At the end of the day, they were happy with what they got out of the poem and I was happy with what I got out of it, so what difference does it really make?


Talk N Share profile image

Talk N Share 3 years ago

We all have the power of choice and will live as we choose no matter what others say. At the end of your life, will you be happy with your choice? I believe that is the real question.


Levertis Steele profile image

Levertis Steele 3 years ago from Southern Clime

A terrible way to hurt a person is to persuade him to fall for something that you believe will hurt him, not help him. As annoyed as some may seem, we must admit that such people are merely trying to share something that they feel is wonderful. They love us and feel that they are trying to help save us. This is what stopped me from getting upset with people of various religions who knocked on my door or stopped me in passing. People who endure insults and sometimes bodily harm to share something that they feel will help the listener has to love others, even strangers. I am happy that I finally learned this. I have two rules: (1) if a person wants to share his/her beliefs, they must listen to mine, and (2) we must have a fuss-free conversation. Most people have some great things to share even if listeners do not believe all. We rarely find people who are all bad. I usually support what I believe is good and share my thoughts on the points I do not support.

I confess that I have gotten heated in such conversations before, but I have learned to be happy and let others be happy too. If we do not choose to listen to a person share his beliefs, there are mice ways to let him know without being indignant. How many of us go through one day without using persuasive techniques?


MizBejabbers profile image

MizBejabbers 3 years ago

My God, Gregas! (excuse the pun) I read your hub and was going to leave a comment, but I think I'll just stick to limericks.

Gregas wrote a hub about the bible

Then all the comments went tribal

The bible went on trial

And the comments went viral

Proving nothing is viable.


gregas profile image

gregas 3 years ago from Corona, California. Author

Thank Miz, this hub did stir up quite a controversy as almost anything that has to do with religion does since it seems like everybody thinks they're experts on the subject. Except me, that is. And I did enjoy your comment in lemerick. Greg


alancaster149 profile image

alancaster149 3 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

(Jeez - Here I am at the foot of this great colossus of opinion. Let's hope my effort doesn't crumble under the weight)!

Well, there was I thinking King James (VI of Scotland, I of England) found a few hours between his books about witches to write down his bible. Then I realised he had his minions to do his bidding, and they were scratching away by the light of a candle somewhere near St James' Palace, vellum nicely squared on their desks and Greek texts propped up in front of them.

Then along came Gutenberg and made the whole scriptorium staff redundant (or down-sized, to use a euphemism).

As you know the saying, 'The Greeks have a word for it" (there's another one that goes, "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts", but that's got nothing to do with this issue). What is the word, if you don't mind me asking? You could say the word is "Biblios".

And there's the nub of it. Never mind Carthage, that's where Augustine came from (and started another fight over here, with the Celtic Church under St Columba, but Rome won out in the end. If we'd stuck with him we'd never have had to go on the Crusades to Palestine. The island of Iona is a lot closer).


IndependentMind profile image

IndependentMind 2 years ago

Interesting article. Your findings about the bible's origins are just about all there is to it. It's creation was nothing more than a tool made by the Roman Government to provide consistency to the needs of the people for something to believe in. And thereby gaining control over their lives. People were uneducated in those days and very susceptible to superstition and mysticism, so they tended to believe anything that authorities told them was truth.

Unfortunately, over the years since its inception it has been used to control the lives and minds of the mindless. Living in a fairytale world is OK for those who choose to do so, but to try to put others down as evil for not participating in those fantasies is distasteful at best.

Too many wars have been waged, lives lost, and families destroyed in the name of religions that build the foundations of their societies around such superfluous superstitions.


talknshare 2 years ago

It looks like you may have found your answer. 5. and 6. is true and 7. is mostly true. To know what to believe, get an NIV, ask God to help you with your questions, then read it all the way through so you can get the whole picture. YES- It does matter who wrote the Bible, because if it's just another book, we have no hope or promise to believe. If it is from God, then it's promises are true and can be trusted. There are many religions and cults who claim to believe the Bible, but as you've pointed out, they sometimes change it to suit their own purpose. That is why you must read it for yourself- so you know what to believe and not believe.


gregas profile image

gregas 2 years ago from Corona, California. Author

To Independent Mind and Talknshare, I believe that everyone is going to get from the Bible just what they want and anyone can interpret it in their own way. I believe it is written that way for that purpose. I believe everyone needs something to believe in and with the Bible they have to believe in themselves first and foremost before they can believe in anything. Just don't put your heart and trust in someone else, especially a false prophet. Greg.


promisem profile image

promisem 15 months ago

Excellent subject. It raises the question of whether the Bible is the "Word of God" or "Word of Man". If it's the second, which you are indicating, then I think that anyone reading it should consider the social and political motives of the people who wrote it.


gregas profile image

gregas 15 months ago from Corona, California. Author

You got that right and exactly why I wrote this. Some people put the Bible way too high on a pedestal and rely way too much on the preaching's in it. Thank you.

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