The Fundamental Atheist

Before I begin my commentary allow me to make two things very clear. Firstly, I’m not speaking to all atheists, and only to those fundamentalists who spend their lives spreading hate on anti God forums, groups and to the public. Secondly, I myself am not devout of any religion or particular God so my argument is not about if God exists or not. My opinion has no goal to defend one sect, organization or ideology over another.

Personally, the notion of atheism perhaps makes more sense to the logical side of my brain rather than a religion that is based on tales. However, do I have the right to take away someone’s joy in tales that bring them peace? Say that the existence of God was real or not, is it too much for me to bare to see someone content in their faith? Am I that selfish that I get off on seeing another person lose hope in something that brings them joy? Is my world where there is no afterlife more satisfying? Is it that much of a crime to have hope of seeing a dead loved one someday? Ask your self this question dear atheists, do you really want to convert someone into a world of nothingness?

So religion and God may not make a lot of sense to me personally, and many atheist arguments ring true. On the other hand, would I like to have faith? Of course. Have I tried? Definitely. Why you may ask. Well because throughout my life I have encountered both people of faith and atheists, and what I couldn't overlook was that the people of faith always had this glittering light in their eyes, as though they were on a drug called hope. So why wouldn't I want a bit of that for myself? At the same time, I remember talking to a friend a long time ago who was an atheist and he confessed to me that the most depressing day of his life was the day that he realized that there was no God. So this is why it makes me angry each time I encounter one of these soul destroying Atheists who take great joy in their attempt to take people to a world of doubt. The atheist may argue and say, “but we are helping them out of their delusional fairytale” Well let me tell you this kind atheist, sometimes delusions and fairy tales are good for the soul, it brings people hope, and pulls them out of darkness. To even go further, a prominent psychologist once told me this “There are some patients living in their positive delusions that I would never want to cure, as their fantasy lives are way better than the ones they lead. I really believe them coming back to reality will surely kill them.”

Many atheist’s will also argue the following to why they need to lash out, “We have been persecuted and burned at the stake for centuries?” “ What about the crusades?” “What about the paedophile priests?” To answer your questions, have you heard of the term sociopath? Well let me inform you that a sociopaths is someone who hides behind the robe of many different organizations that have access to the weak and vulnerable, whether it’s social work, politics, teaching, health care and law enforcement.

Then there are these other types of Atheists who make belittling statements such as these (The following quotes are from a real live forum here on hubpages)

  • “Do you know how ridiculous your beliefs are?”
  • “Keep living in a world of make belief and goblins”
  • “Your religion is full of bigotry”
  • "You keep your irrational beliefs to yourself and I promise not to tell you how silly they are”
  • "Believers are just little children who need to believe in fairy tales"
  • “If you believe garbage - that is your business"
  • “Only people with minds riddled with paranoia would allow themselves to be terrified by such primitive and make belief"
  • “To those adult, I urge you to please grow up. How embarrassing”

Some of you may argue, what about freedom of speech? I’m all for freedom of speech, however what ever happened to stating your arguments using facts without personal attacks?

Now let’s talk about this new trend of fanatical atheism emerging into society. You will find these radicals on forums, face to face groups and universities. One example of this is Macquarie University in Sydney Australia, where a whole group of students are spray painting the campus floors with “Your God doesn't exist” and “Your God is evil” I even personally have a very good friend whose only goal is spreading atheism to young people, that he has already succeeded in deconverting at least 5 people in the past two years. What is his goal you may ask. Well he told me that he wanted them to stop being sheep and that it was an enjoyable challenge for him. I have another friend who used to be a missionary preaching all over Spain and telling people ‘Jesus loves you’ One day he woke up and decided that there is no God. So does that give him the right now based on the changes in his model of the world once again to preach, but this time tell us that ‘Jesus in fact doesn't love us?’ Just because he has now being overcome with sudden enlightenment and believes that this molecule of an opinion really matters in the bigger scheme of things. Well let me tell you, this so called individual does preach on a regular basis to anyone who would listen and often hijacks religious people’s posts on facebook telling them about how their God is evil, their God Isn't real, their God is a murderer. He also calls those who believe in him the following, delusional, stupid, unintelligent. Just because this individual gave up God, he now magically expects the majority to follow.

Characteristics of a Fundamental Atheist


1) They are so obsessed with God that they find satisfaction dedicating their entire lives on forums talking about him

2) Some are rude, angry and hateful. They use insulting and belittling language to describe believers, such as describing them as stupid, delusional, childish, and enforcing their own hateful views in a rude manner

3) They take satisfaction in deconverting people, taking away any hope they may have through their faith

4) There are those with such a grandiose view of themselves that their so called superior intellect and ego won’t allow them to open their minds and ponder that just perhaps there could be a presence larger than themselves in the bigger scheme of things

5) They seem to rave on and on about this egotistical God and how offended they are about being threatened by the hell fire. What is so offensive about something you claim not to believe in? It’s like me getting upset about the God Zeus threatening to blast me down with a lightning bolt

6) Those who have joined atheist organizations and spend their hours in meetings scheming of likely ways they are able to spread to the world that God is a delusion. I would actually call these groups more like fundamental cults full of haters. What we need to worry about next is if some day a sicko like Hitler decides to lead one of these groups

7) They spend their days handing out anti God/Jesus literature, preaching to anyone who would listen about the evils of God and spray painting public walls with “Your God is dead”

8) Those that have a nasty habit of feeling superior in intellect to those who believe in God. They mock, downgrade and overlook any good idea a person of faith may have since no such great ideas could possibly come from “Sheep who follow blindly”

I can understand that there is another side to my argument. Atheism may be a lonely place in some countries and even communities. Family members and friends may disown an atheists and many do live out their lives as closet atheists in order to fit in and keep relationships. Some atheist feel so strongly about this egoistical all powerful God that is described in all the Abrahamic religions that they may want to wage a full on war with him. There are other atheists that have had enough of bible bashers and preachers ramming religion down their throats. And of course there is nothing wrong with having a healthy debate with someone who is challenging an atheist and there is definitely no harm if an atheist is outspoken and proud about their beliefs in a respectable and open minded manner. As well, I personally know some of the most charitable good hearted atheists who give and expect no heaven for their good deeds in return.

Don’t get me wrong this is not even about defending religious people, as there are many who irritate me.

1) The overly annoying Christians who ruin my Sunday mornings knocking on my door

2) Those crazies on microphones screaming at you about Jesus and God. In fact I actually feel sorry for them as it’s quite obvious that they have escaped from a mental asylum

3)These fundamental religious freaks who use religion to persecute minorities? They should be hung. I personally think anyone that kills in the name of religion actually lacks a belief or fear in a God

4)These holier than thou self righteous Christians that believe that they are special because Jesus Christ lives inside them.

In conclusion, my discontent is not with the atheist as the individual, and it’s not even with those who are seeking out support groups. Neither is my argument with those who defend their right and beliefs when being attacked. My issue is with the fanatics, who seem to have to go out of their way to let us all know about their hatred for a God, who they actually don’t believe exists. They reek of pent up aggression, they mock, belittle and spread hate to those who have faith. Some may seek revenge for bad experiences they have had growing up in religious households. Then there are those who in my opinion could be the most dangerous of all, they simply take pride in deconverting a person who finds solace in their faith. I would have to say that they are similar to a cult, just as dangerous as extreme Christianity, Islam or Judaism and are no better than those fanatical crazies calling out on microphones. The only difference is one is calling out “Jesus Loves You” while the other is shouting back “God hates you”

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Comments 39 comments

savvydating profile image

savvydating 3 years ago

Excellent points. You've laid out various arguments for both sides quite nicely. Personally, I agreed most with your premise that some "fundamentalist" atheists are extremely arrogant. Your example, "You keep your irrational beliefs to yourself and I promise not to tell you how silly they are” is one such example. Frankly, this condescending attitude gets old, fast.

Anyway, the reason I am a believer in Jesus, the Christ, is not for the reward of heaven, but simply because after having read all the evidence for him, I simply could not deny him. That being said, my beliefs are not necessarily typical, nor fundamental. I just look at the things Jesus did. I can find no fault with him. I see only greatness. He was, in fact, quite radical for his time.

If you are interested in reading some information from distinguished scholars/historians who understand Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic, and who are peer respected authors who know what they're talking about, please know there are many which most people know nothing about --whatsoever!

One such historian is Craig A. Evans, who wrote, Fabricating Jesus: How Modern Scholars Distort The Gospels. Anyway, after reading evidence for myself, I have come to believe that the Bible is not a fairy tale, nor was it a product of myths as some argue. However, one has to have a true understanding of context, historical timelines. guidelines for true scholarship, by which historical evidence is realized, etc. before one can understand that which is otherwise difficult to accept or understand.

Perhaps you or some of your readers may enjoy one particular book. Here is a website that introduces it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIwV__gW5v4

Wonderful article you've written. Up and awesome. If you are interested in more books from other distinguished scholars, I can recommend more. -Savvy


tillsontitan profile image

tillsontitan 3 years ago from New York

You've really looked at both sides and it appears you've tried to be fair to both. We should be free to believe as we chose, period, Amen! Fanaticism is never a good thing. As we all know, all things in moderation!

Voted up, useful, and interesting.


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

Hey Savvy thanks for your comment, it has being quite educational for me. I will have to agree with you about Jesus Christ. If I ever spoke about fairytales it’s only in regards to some stories from the old testament. As for Jesus I believe that he is the most perfect figure that has ever walked earth. The love he spread, the forgiveness he taught, his tolerance of betrayers, his acts of kindness, his treatment of prostitutes, his purity at never lusting, are quite overwhelming. You will know about my respect for him from one of my article ‘Why the bashing of this man – Jesus Christ’ Although I have my doubts in an omnipotent power, Jesus is the one selling point that draws me to Christianity and I have no doubts that he has ever existed as a man.

I wasn't aware that modern scholars were distorting the Gospels. However I’m aware of many conspiracy theories are lingering around. Thanks for providing the youtube link, it has given me a greater insight to the fabrications. It’s quite amazing that most of the lies created about Jesus are by people who have no qualifications in the matter, are fundamentalists and create conspiracy theories based on no evidence. So it’s great that such a historian like Craig Evans has written a book to clarify some facts and debunk the misinformation being spread. I will definitely have to read the book and do some more research . Thanks again


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

MKlow1 wow! The names you mentioned, are a small part of the inspiration for this hub. I’ve always had a problem with these types of atheist fundamentalists. And many times while I saw Christians talk about how ‘God loves me’ the Atheist was telling me that ‘God hates me’ and were basically looking down on anyone who had faith. Not to mention having to put up with my two fanatical atheist friends. Then last week my sister told me about how these people were writing all over her University floors things like ‘ your God is a delusion’ So that was the boiling point for me and I was like WTH and exploded and randomly created a forum here on hubpages called “Atheists, what the hell is your problem?” and had a little rant. Well you can just imagine that the title wasn’t received well, not that I expected it to be. And that was the fuel to the fire for the names of the hubbers you mentioned. They were in that forum in a matter of seconds defending their atheism and insulting any Christian or believer that basically breathed. Every single one of them had something nasty to say, (except for JMcmacfarland) one guy kept on repeating the same speech telling people to grow up and stop been childish, meaning grow up only children believe in fairytales. Although I will have to say that the most respectable on the forum had to be JMcmacfarland. So after spending just one day debating these people and observing their condescending behavior I though there’s no way I could spend another second wasting my time on minds full of hate and anger, so while they fought and insulted people just for the sake of it, I spent the rest of my day writing this hub.

Anyway haha I can imagine you getting into a heated debate with them, it would never end. I definitely know the pains of debating with you 

And I so agree with you, people have a predisposition to preach. My sister who is quite a religious Christian told me that she will never discuss religion with closed minded atheists and quoted this from the bible “Don’t throw your pearls to swine”

Thanks for taking the time to read and your insightful comment. I will watch out for censoring.


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

Hi tillsontitan, your comment got me thinking about my first hub here on hubpages about two years ago. It was called ‘smokers are serial killer’ (the title has changed since) and you can imagine the negative response that I received for that hub and I loved every minute of it. I began writing on hubpages with very controversial views and at times to provoke. But in the two years I have been on here something has shifted and my writing style has developed into a more mature, at times empathetic understanding of looking at both sides (but not when it comes to politics haha) in the end who is right anyway?

It’s true, fanaticism is never a good things and I believe that sometimes it may become part of a person’s identity. Thanks for stopping by and your comment


Mklow1 3 years ago

Also, be ready for those that I listed to be here making comments on your hub because you are now on their radar. They will be drawn here like vultures to a carcass! lol


savvydating profile image

savvydating 3 years ago

Hi Ranzi. I had read your article about bashing Jesus, so I was aware of your respect for him. Consequently, I thought you might appreciate the link. If you are interested in further research, another good book is, The Case For the Real Jesus, by Lee Strobel. He is was an award winning investigative journalist... also a former atheist who set out to discover more information about the historical Jesus. He interviewed the top peer-respected scholars of our time. After all the evidence was examined, he could no longer disbelieve in God or Jesus. Anyway, from this book, you can also get a list of the best scholars the world has to offer. I think you'll be impressed with what you learn. I know that my eyes were opened.


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

Mklow1 you were so right. They were here and they did report this page and it got unpublished. I guess it's my fault for using images of half naked women in a church. Anyway they are more than free to disagree with my hub and defend themselves.

Thanks once again savvy, I will definitely check out his book. I also have to commend you on the way you conducted yourself in the forum. You were so articulate and so full of knowledge in your answers.


savvydating profile image

savvydating 3 years ago

I appreciate it, Ranzi. I think we all wonder whether we're just banging our heads against the wall when we engage in debate. Your comment means more than you may know. Thank you.


bBerean profile image

bBerean 3 years ago

Ranzi,

In the interest of full disclosure, I realize I am one you would not likely be a fan of. My confidence is seen by atheists as arrogance, my conviction as delusion, and my security as self righteousness. Nevertheless I refuse to lie and say I suspect instead of believe, (in the truest sense of the word), or even that I hope instead of know. How I can use that word is a hub in itself, but to do otherwise would be disingenuous. Obviously, this makes me a magnet for the behavior you describe, yet I understand their perspective.

All that being said, I wanted to thank you for an excellent hub. I enjoyed your style, appreciated your unique perspectives on both sides of this issue, and respect your willingness to put yourself in the line of fire from those who may otherwise agree with you on many things. As one person eluded to in the forum that prompted your hub, it would not be evident what "dog you have in the fight," which just makes your speaking out all the more admirable.

Well done.


RealityTalk profile image

RealityTalk 3 years ago from Planet Earth

I can only speak for myself & I refer to myself as a realist, not theist or atheist, although an atheist would be a close description. I'm not out to convert anyone. I do not think myself superior & I do not have ego issues. I always preach peace & love; I am a pacifist unlike many religious who preach peace but condone war; I just don't say "Jesus loves you." I say "I love you. You love you. We should love each other."

I do believe the religious are lost in fantasy. That is the hard fact of y philosophy. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's happiness by speaking words I firmly believe true. This is my philosophy. I have researched religions & the history behind the creation of many of them. Christianity, for example, is a creation of the Israelites; it was birthed from Judaism, which makes me wonder why so many Christians hate Jews (my wife is Jewish, by the way). But Christianity & Judaism are also composites of thousands of religions existing at the time of their creation and prior thereto. There is nothing unique about Jesus & the resurrection as a belief of many faiths. But all religions have no foundation in reality. In fact Christianity only gained world renown when ancient gov installed it by force as the gov's religion. And the Gospels were written 40 years after the possible life & death of a man named Jesus. But probably most noteworthy, one can hardly argue against the fact that religions have retarded advancements in science, health and engineering. That is a fact of history.

Let me tell you a little about me. I was born into a devote Catholic family complete with relatives who were nuns & priests. I thought about joining the priesthood for a time while I was in High School. I read the bible from cover to cover. I was even reborn as a New Christian, although my closest friends were Jewish & my family Catholic. My closet friend of 46 years is a New Christian converted after birth to a Jewish family & after his bar mitzvah. We are still extremely close & we both respect each other as much as always.

But I read & I watched & I listened & I learned to believe in truth, not fiction merely because fiction is popular and leads to being socially & economically accepted. It became more important to me to believe in reality even if reality is not as pretty a picture as gaining wings & flying into the clouds & existing forever. Even if others will socially or financially ostracize me because I am not a member of the gang. Because in their eyes, I am wrong. How can I be right when more people believe otherwise. Just as the Sun circles the Earth, I must believe it to be so & never try to convince anyone otherwise; or else.

Please believe me when I say, "I am not lonely, depressed or sad because no god or heaven exists." So many religious people have told me without their god I cannot be anything but the aforementioned. I feel excited to be alive. To have a loving family. To know there is so much to learn. The world is an amazing place. I don't need to delude myself into believing in invisible gods to be happy. I am certainly not obsessed with a god; I leave that to the religious. I am obsessed with life & the search for knowledge. In my mind, it appears many religious people are sad & depressed & so desperate for answers they must invent a world that appeases this sadness or they cannot survive. I find that sad. I accept the world for what it is and I am happy. I wish more people could find the same happiness without escaping into fantasy. There is so much in the world to discover. It is a great place to be & the alternative is not a better place. Heaven is here & now.

If not for the non-religious, or the religious who are not quite as strong in their beliefs as they openly admit, the mortality rate at child birth would be as it was a few hundred years ago. Millions would be dying due to lack of adequate sewage & food production & flowing clean water & heated homes & transportation & people who study to cure illness (doctors & researchers). Praying may comfort a person for a time, but it is not prayer that heals or cures or saves lives. It is human effort & a realization that (wo)man must do it him/herself. If prayer is the answer to illness, then I challenge the religious to forgo medical treatment.

So if someone like me appears mean or spiteful, you have got it all wrong. I can only speak for myself, but for me it is frustrating to watch people live in delusion. And it is upsetting to listen to the deluded tell me I am delusional, evil, hateful & I have no ethics or morality unless I believe in their delusions. None of that is true. And I have as much right to express my beliefs in reality as claim the religious to express their beliefs in the supernatural. The Christian's battle cry is "Jesus must be accepted into your heart to be saved. All hope springs from Jesus." The realist's battle cry is "believe in truth, reality, not delusion, & never stop searching for answers. We make our own good & evil, love & peace." The realist (or Atheist if you prefer) mantra is what it is - it is not meant to insult anyone, but the religious see it that way because it calls their beliefs into question. It's like fire & water; there is no way around a little smoke or steam when the two collide. They are diametrically opposed.

So don't think so unkindly of me. I don't think unkindly of anyone who is neither condescending nor hateful to me. But I am not going to hide my beliefs in reality because it may hurt someone's feelings. I am not going to shelf expressing myself & being proud of my philosophy because it differs with someone else & causes them to question their beliefs. The other side of the religious complaint against those like me is the religious feel a need to convert or ostracize me from their fold. The bible & so many other religious writings are evidence of the religious need to eliminate other philosophies. As a realist, I will express my beliefs & I do so with no threats of damnation or isolation of others not of my beliefs.


Frank Atanacio profile image

Frank Atanacio 3 years ago from Shelton

you stay as fair as possible.. I am neither or I believe in Science ..but its how I feel thats all great hub makes one think :)


Mklow1 3 years ago

Reality Talk said: "So if someone like me appears mean or spiteful, you have got it all wrong. I can only speak for myself, but for me it is frustrating to watch people live in delusion. And it is upsetting to listen to the deluded tell me I am delusional,"

I don't suppose you see the irony in that statement because no one likes to be told their beliefs are delusional. That was the premise of what the hub was written for. I am Christian. My wife is a psychiatrist. My wife does not think I am delusional for being religious. For other things maybe, but for believing in God, no. I will accept her diagnosis, as should you.

You said: " I feel excited to be alive. To have a loving family. To know there is so much to learn. The world is an amazing place. I don't need to delude myself into believing in invisible gods to be happy. I am certainly not obsessed with a god; I leave that to the religious. I am obsessed with life & the search for knowledge."

I believe in God, yet I am happy. I go to church, yet I am obsessed with life and the search for knowledge. I always have been and always will be. I love my family and have an unbelievable life that I am so blessed for and thank God every day. I think that is rare and most people don't have my kind of happiness whether they are religious or not. I think that most people that rant and rave about other peoples beliefs and get into their business are the ones that aren't happy. That also goes whether they are religious or not.

You said: "I do believe the religious are lost in fantasy." after you previously said: "I do not think myself superior & I do not have ego issues. I always preach peace & love;"

Do you see where I am going with this and why Ranzi wrote the Hub? I can put quote after quote up here, but that would be like beating a dead horse by now. I am sure that most can get the drift of where you are going in your long comment.

You said: " In my mind, it appears many religious people are sad & depressed & so desperate for answers they must invent a world that appeases this sadness or they cannot survive. I find that sad."

The beginning of that statement, when you said "In your mind" That pretty much sums it up. It is all in your mind because you are the one projecting your personal sadness onto them. If you say not, then where did you come up with this? Do you have statistics to back it up? I didn't think so. Projecting. This is also like when I here someone say that they can feel someone judging them by the way they look at them. That is a projection of insecurity pure and simple because no one is a mind reader.

You said: "If not for the non-religious, or the religious who are not quite as strong in their beliefs as they openly admit, the mortality rate at child birth would be as it was a few hundred years ago. Millions would be dying due to lack of adequate sewage & food production & flowing clean water & heated homes & transportation & people who study to cure illness (doctors & researchers)."

I have no clue how you came up with this. You realize like 3% of the world is atheist, so a majority of these people saving lives, researching, and discovering are religious. I think it is convenient of you to say that the others aren't as "strong in their beliefs" because there is no way we can research that. This sound more like your personal feelings. If you don't believe that, then I really don't know what to tell you. As for the sewage and transportation, I don't really know how to respond because I don't know what in the world that has to do with being religious or not.

I guess the bottom line is that you have every right to have your beliefs or lack there of, but you can do that without dumping on someone else's beliefs. I just don't get what my belief has to do with your lack of belief. Why can't you just say "I don't believe in God." and simply leave it at that. But instead you come off sounding like a mean girl in junior high.

You are one of the fundamentalist atheist that Ranzi is talking about. The fact is that through your whole explanation you built yourself up and patted yourself on the back and made Christians seem like brain dead imbeciles. Isn't that the whole thing that atheist complain about; that Christians "judge" them all the time? So your "logical" way of responding to that is to fight fire with fire.

I guess what is good for the goose is not good for the gander in your world.

You know, the world is a big place, so believe it or not, there is room for you to have your belief and for me to have mine. So if you want to get on your high horse and put others down for not being open minded, then maybe you should take a look in the mirror.


savvydating profile image

savvydating 3 years ago

Mklow1. Amen to that! I've seen these types of words and arguments from Reality Talk time and again -- I wish he could see or hear himself -- but he cannot, of course.

I thought of commenting on his comment, but I chose to let his unfortunate logic speak for itself. Having said that, I'm glad that you spoke up. Your response is better and far more thorough than mine would have been, primarily because I've been down this road before with RT, to no avail, as he does not see beyond his own thoughts.

Reality Talk, I am also telling you directly that your arguments are not good. They tend to be cloaked in wording that may sound somewhat intellectual to some, but which, in reality, make very little sense, except to prove that you have apparently embraced many of the unfortunate qualities which you accuse others of having. However, that is your prerogative. But please know, you are not enhancing your claim to understand reality by calling others delusional. It's just not a good sell, except to those who do not have a high criteria for what constitutes factual knowledge or research.


RealityTalk profile image

RealityTalk 3 years ago from Planet Earth

Please, I do not even have to read your entire comments (savvy & mk) to know you are the ones "high on your horse." I speak for myself & said that. You are insulting me & speaking for me. Delusional is a definition of someone believing in something that is not true. That is the basis of being someone who sees the world as it is, not one who makes things up. You have no facts to back up your beliefs. I do. You make up things as you go. You have no logical or rational arguments to back you statements of philosophy. You say faith is your proof. My child says he has faith Santa will bring him toys.

You claim to be so loving & religious & strong in your faith & yet you insult others beliefs & show no tolerance whatsoever. You say I cannot see myself. That is one thing that is so frustrating for me. It is YOU who cannot see yourself. I am not claiming there is a being that looks like me & loves me if I do A, B & C. A being you never met. I am claiming nothing of the sort. I claim only that I search for answers. Answers you claim to already have with out looking past your own nose. You are the arrogant being, not me. You fail to understand what an Atheist or Realist. That is why you attack me and claim poor realist, he is so judgmental & mean, when the truth is you are describing yourself.

I cannot pretend that your made up superman & his winged servants is real. That is against my philosophy. As a psychiatrist once said to me, we all have a religion, it is - our philosophy. Your religion is nothing more than your personal philosophy. The difference between mine & yours is that my is ever changing; ever evolving; and always based on truth and reality. Your philosophy is based on stories & fables told by men long dead & passed on to you by parents and or friends. You never met your god. You never found or searched for any proof thereof. Many of your flock claim the bible as the proof, but the bible is a book of fables handed down over the years & collected into a book. A book written by man, not god. Any honest priest will tell you so. A priest I grew up with & was close with for decades admitted so.

It is very difficult to explain rationally & logically to those who fail to understand logic & who do not always behave rationally. I try to use kid gloves to explain my philosophy so as not to hurt your fragile and insecure beliefs. You on the other hand, put words into my philosophy that were never there & despite your faith claiming turning the other cheek & love & so on, you spew hatred, and show yourself as very insecure in your belief system.

I feel sorry for you. You do not even have enough faith in your own religion & apparently you do not even understand it. I am strong in my beliefs & you can insult me all you want, but my philosophy is based on reality, yours is pure fantasy. If you want me to believe there is any credibility in your beliefs, then present some proof as to how your religion out of the 1000s & 1000s that have come and gone since the dawn of man is any different than the others & anymore credible. Don't cop out with a word like "faith." That just means you don't have proof. Don't insult me - your religion & Jesus are against that approach. Prove your faith with facts, not hateful language. And speak for yourself, not me and all others.


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

Hi Bberean, there's nothing wrong with being proud of your conviction in God. Why would I not be a fan? Not agreeing with a person's perceptions and views does does not mean I don't respect them. I haven't walked in your shoes or faced your life experience. This goes for the fundamental atheists as well, although I find their behavior destructive at times, there's usually an experience, or belief system that drives their motive. I even know atheists that actually want to believe in God but just can't. This is why many are at times obsessed with God.

Yes in that forum there were a few people who called me a hypocrite for not being a believer in a god, yet defending people to have the right to have faith without being discriminated against. Funny enough one lady who is supposedly christian was quite offended by my original post and one comment she made which was quite amuzing, quote.. "in the future don't try and stand up for me. I am quite capable of doing it myself. I don't need someone like YOU defending MY religion." You noticed how MY is in capital letters,  as though christianity belongs only to her. As well it's like saying I'm not allowed to fight for gay rights because I'm not gay or a man can't defend feminism because he is a male. You obviously saw how condescending some atheists were on there. I even saw a great comment from you putting one guy in his place for telling a young girl to leave the forum and go to church. It's

Thanks for stopping by and your kind comments :)


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

Before I start let me tell you that I have some of my bestest friends who I love dearly that are fundamental atheists, otherwise how would I know so much about them. I'm more of a non believer myself, although I hate that word atheist. So no I have no ill feelings towards you. I really appreciate your great comment which captivated me into your world and perceptions and I totally can see your point of view as I can relate to some of it. But at the same time I had a suicidal friend who told me that the one thing that saved his life was his faith in god and an aunty who lost a few children and a husband, who is only not in a mental institution because of the hope that she will see them again, so although my aunty may have blind faith and talks to me about God, I will be honest and say I have my doubts but I will never give her all the atheist arguments that I know in order to try to deconvert her. Although perhaps some people may live in delusions, how do you know for sure that they are delusions? How do you know for sure that your model of the world is the right way? In the end we are just tiny molecules with billions of opinions, values, experiences and ideologies? Who is really right? There's nothing wrong with being sure in yourself and beliefs, however the fundamental atheists goes above and beyond to not only preach, but to belittle calling people names and deeming them as crazy. What is really real anyway? You breathing? You dreaming? 500 years ago human beings would have called you delusional if you spoke to them about a man on the moon, a plane flying or even the cyber world? What do you know as real in another 1000 years? This whole life and world seems crazy, surreal and doesn't make sense.. we can't prove there's a god, but can we prove there isn't one? For us to call people delusional because their perceptions don't make sense in our model of the world is quite ignorant.

Yes organized religion are another story, some have been quite destructive, but there are psychopaths and bad people born every minute and they are usually drawn to orginisations where they can have power. Did you know that the highest incidents of abuse happen in care homes for the elderly and disabled? Why you may ask? Because people who have a tendency to abuse are drawn to institutions where they can have access to the weak and vulnerable. And to go back to religion, this dude jesus whether divine or not, all he spoke about was peace, peace and more peace. Turn the other cheek was this guys biggest selling point! And for you to tell me that the crusades or any evil so called christians really believed in him, or followed him then I will just have to laugh. Anyway seriously thank you so much for your comment, it really took me to another place and you made a few valid points.


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

My dear Frank you're always so fair. Well Thanks once again for stopping by, reading and making a comment. I think I will have to have another sneak peak at your hubs without ghosts :)


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

Wow okay guys just saw your comments now after I was typing up my replies on my phone for the other comments. I haven't read through them but i can see a debate of some sort. Once I have access to a computer I will be able to respond.


savvydating profile image

savvydating 3 years ago

RT, I always use references to back up my arguments, at least 90% of the time, when it is relevant to do so. Yet, I've not seen any from you. That is what I meant. However, you are apparently very sensitive, so if I hurt your feelings, then I am sorry. I wish you had read Mklow's comment. Why stop? Would that not be showing tolerance? Also, I do not claim to be loving, or strong in my faith, nor have I ever claimed my faith as proof. Mostly, I play devil's advocate, and let people see another side, which they can then research for themselves. Pretty much, all of your assertions about me are untrue. That having been said, I do believe in God, and especially the greatness of Jesus. However, I do fall short of the mark -- that much is true.


Thomas Swan profile image

Thomas Swan 3 years ago from New Zealand

Ranzi, your hub really resonates with me. I'm agnostic, and while I realize that makes me an atheist too, I try to dissociate myself from atheist communities. Your hub describes some of my reasons well but before I describe the rest, I will offer a quote from Einstein:

"You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

Now, to make a few points. You said "Ask your self this question dear atheists, do you really want to convert someone into a world of nothingness?". Are you saying that my world is nothingness? If you unhook someone from religion, surely they can find joy in other endeavors. Both religious people and drug addicts experience great "ecstasy" but would you claim that both are making a healthy choice? Happiness has many sources; few of which are inherently healthy. I and many others would categorize religion as an unhealthy choice.

Furthermore, I think you're speaking against a certain kind of criticism, but not all criticism. Some of the commenters seem to be interpreting your hub as taking a stand against all criticism of religion. You say that a religion based on tales doesn't make much sense to you. It doesn't to me either.

I criticize religion regularly because I criticize all beliefs that are not based on evidence. Religion is the irrational belief I criticize the most because it is the belief I encounter most readily in everyday life. That doesn't mean I search the web for Christians to offend, but I do believe it's my duty as a scientist to write my own articles about the deficiencies of faith. As a scientist, I am also very curious about how religious people think. I, for one, don't think that way, so I want to understand why they think the way they do. That's why many of my hubs focus on the psychology of religion.

What I've found is that atheists and believers have the same motivations and desires, but they are fulfilled in different ways. Both groups seek out like minded people because who can communicate potentially useful information. Religious people have their Churches, and atheists have their internet clubs. Religious people take pride in the idea that they are closer to God than many other people, while atheists take pride in the superior intelligence they perceive themselves to have. Both like to demonstrate the things they have pride in at every opportunity. That's how they get their kicks. Atheists seek out religious people to ridicule, while believers try to convert or belittle the infidels. Atheists often say that they only believe one less God. To that I say: atheists have one less unscientific belief, but that's all we can say about their aptitude for science.

The most telling commonality between the two groups is their willingness to believe whatever supports their point of view. That's when you know someone is cognitively deficient. Christians will jump on the Intelligent Design bandwagon because it helps to support their preconceived beliefs. Conversely, many atheists will look at a scientific paper, read and understand almost none of it, and use the conclusion to bash believers over the head with. Both demonstrate the same thinking; they just use different tools to reinforce their pride and soothe their ego.

Anyway, I've nattered on far too long. One word of caution though. I wouldn't be so quick to agree with commenters who name other hubpages users and call them trolls. If you allow comments like that, the staff can take your hub down; even though it's not your fault. I don't want to see that happen. For one, my overly long comment would disappear!


Thomas Swan profile image

Thomas Swan 3 years ago from New Zealand

Whoops, slight mistake there. The sentence: "Both groups seek out like minded people because who can communicate potentially useful information." ....shouldn't have the word "because" in there. :)


RealityTalk profile image

RealityTalk 3 years ago from Planet Earth

savvydating, I am far from sensitive. It is amazing you can even write that. All I read from the Jesus lovers is how understanding & tolerant they are & how the realist is attacking them, angry and insecure. There is no way I can explain reality to a Christian. I'm sorry if you take it as a slam, but the reality is that many Christians, you included, are so lost in delusions that you cannot see I am only speaking of reality. My point is proven by its very words. I am not the one claiming a supernatural being shaped like a man wearing sandals & sporting a beard is living on a cloud somewhere judging and watching over all mankind. And when I ask for proof, you and the religious cannot provide any. You merely create circular false arguments and say nothing. You accuse me of not proving anything when I am not trying to prove anything. As a realist, I don't have to prove anything. I am not claiming all the claims you are claiming. If what you believe is so self-evident & so true, prove it. But you cannot, so you and the other religious manufacture words & fears you claim I have that I do not to mask your insecurities and inability to prove your claims. I am sorry, but there is no other way as a realist to tell you how lost you are other than to explain what reality is. That is what a realist/atheist is. Just like you explaining to me that a man born some 2100 years ago was the manifestation of a godly being on Earth is the basis of your beliefs, my telling you that there is no such man god & you are totally wrong and confused in thinking such is the basis of my beliefs. You confuse as does Ranzi an obsession with god for an explanation of my beliefs.

I can write this over and over again & I know it will not sink in, but it is you trying to convince me that a super-powered being shaped like a bearded man created you, me & the world & is still present overseeing all existence & HE is all powerful & all knowing & always has been & always will be. I am not trying to convince you of such a being. I am not trying to convince you Santa Claus brings toys down every chimney in the world once every year. I am not trying to convince you angels visit people at night. It is you & your philosophy.

I am not over sensitive. If I display any emotion it is one of passion for the truth & honesty & logic and possibly frustration. I long for truth. I refuse to believe in easy answers no matter how good they feel. As the saying goes, ignorance is bliss. But that does not mean it is good for us. If you & other supernatural believers want to believe such things, go ahead. But read your faith & follow it, don't manipulate it to fit your personal desires. If the bible is your guide, then believe it all. Don't pick & choose.

In my original post on this Hub, I tried to explain how myself & people like me can be & are good people. We are told so often that we cannot have morals & ethics & be good family people if we are realists. That was the ONLY reason I wrote to explain the wrong beliefs & connotations hurled our way by the religious. It is not sensitivity. It is an attempt to explain how wrong you are about people like me.

I will toot my own horn by saying that it is more difficult to be a realist than a Christian. I am good to others & kind to others & moral & ethical because I believe it is right. I don't do so to avoid hell or to earn a ticket to heaven. I am good because I believe it right. I am nice to others because I want to help others. I ask for & I expect no reward & I do it not out of fear.

And savvy, you have not backed up your arguments 90%, 50% or even 1% of the time. Prove your god & your religious philosophy. You have already attacked me personally. It should be out of your system by now. Now prove your god, your heaven & your hell. That would be backing your argument. Just because you say you believe is no argument. I never claimed you didn't. I claim your god does not exist & you have no proof a man-shaped god exists & you have offered 0% proof he does. 0%.

Now you may be a good person. I don't know you. And as Ranzi has clearly stated that at least she believes many people NEED to believe in a supernatural man-god to get through their lives. I don't want to take that away from you or anyone. My elderly neighbor who I have rescued from falls at least 20 times; who I am on speed dial to help her 24/7 just because she needs me - is a devote Christian & prays for me because I help her daily. I say nothing to her about her beliefs in her god, because she needs him. I care about her, not as Ranzi, you & others here imply that I want to convert others at the expense of their happiness. That is a terrible thing to claim of me. But I believe in facts. I believe in searching for truth & not believing in stories told without a shred of fact or evidence. I would be foolish to do otherwise.

You and others can fool yourselves into believing I am lost, scared of your god & that you may be right, that I am evil, that I want paranoid you are out to get me, or whatever negative quality you want to fire at me. But I am very secure in the truth & I will never be bullied into believing lies or fantasies because of pressure from mob mentalities or being ostracized from social groups or jobs.

Many times my wife has asked me why do I bother trying to explain reality to Christians when they refuse to believe. I realize, being born & baptized a Christian myself that Christians are taught from birth that theirs is the correct religion & they must believe to get into heaven & converting others is part of the faith. But I tell my wife, I must be true no matter what. I realize Christians refuse to see the illogical, irrational basis of their philosophy. But I must not cower & hide believing in fact, because others are afraid & afraid to admit they will not question their faith no matter how much proof against. You may choose to interpret my belief in reality as condescending, blasphemy, thinking I know everything. You can misstate & misinterpret what I am trying to explain as much as you want if it makes you happier at the end of the day. But reality is reality is reality and there is no other way to explain it than to define it & doing so is going to differ with your philosophy. There is no way around it.

Let me end here by writing, I don't hate you. I wish you a happy life. Hopefully you can wish me the same.


Mklow1 3 years ago

RealityTalk said: "Please, I do not even have to read your entire comments (savvy & mk) to know you are the ones "high on your horse."

Reality, I am glad you put that down in writing because I was pretty sure you don't bother to read what others wrote, including the Hub because you don't seem to be getting what the conversation is about:

You said: "You have no facts to back up your beliefs. I do."

If you read any of this article and my comments you would realize they were not about if God is real or if atheism is wrong. I have no problems with atheists and their beliefs do not affect my life whatsoever. Have I once mentioned what I believe??? Nope. The article and my comments are about how fundamental atheists approach discussing their beliefs in a manner that is not very commendable and come off as angry and belittling, which is what you are doing. Right on cue I must say.

You said: "You claim to be so loving & religious & strong in your faith & yet you insult others beliefs & show no tolerance whatsoever."

Please show me where I said any of this. OHH, that's right. You didn't bother to read what any one else said before you went on your rant.

You said: "The difference between mine & yours is that my is ever changing; ever evolving; and always based on truth and reality. Your philosophy is based on stories & fables told by men long dead & passed on to you by parents and or friends. You never met your god. You never found or searched for any proof thereof. Many of your flock claim the bible as the proof, but the bible is a book of fables handed down over the years & collected into a book."

Ok, there you go. I hope this little rant that you got off your chest makes you feel better and you calm down and have a good nights rest. The only thing is I hate to break it to you but only 2% of the Earth is truly atheist, so your hopes of dominating the world and ridding it of religion will not happen in your lifetime or any lifetime soon.

You said: "I feel sorry for you. You do not even have enough faith in your own religion & apparently you do not even understand it."

How would you know how much faith I have in my religion? I haven't even talked about my faith...OHH, that is right! You didn't even bother to read what I wrote! lol Yet you still manage to put words in my mouth.

You said: "If you want me to believe there is any credibility in your beliefs, then present some proof as to how your religion out of the 1000s & 1000s that have come and gone since the dawn of man is any different than the others & anymore credible."

I could care less what you believe about me. You, on the other hand, seem to care a lot of what I think.

You said: "And speak for yourself, not me and all others."

This statement is so ironic since you didn't read what I said, yet filled your rant with things I said without actually writing down. lol

You said: "As a psychiatrist once said to me, we all have a religion, it is - our philosophy."

I think you need to keep talking to this psychiatrist because you don't seem to have resolved all of your anger issues. And in your next session, try to stay on the topic of your feelings, then you will get your money's worth.


Mklow1 3 years ago

RealityTalk said: "My elderly neighbor who I have rescued from falls at least 20 times; who I am on speed dial to help her 24/7 just because she needs me - is a devote Christian & prays for me because I help her daily. I say nothing to her about her beliefs in her god, because she needs him."

It is funny how you don't have your "convictions" in a face to face meeting, yet on the internet you seem to be bold enough to confront Christians and say they are delusional.

Yet, then you said: "But I must not cower & hide believing in fact, because others are afraid & afraid to admit they will not question their faith no matter how much proof against."

Do you see the irony here? This is what we are talking about. If you feel so strongly that it is ok that your neighbor has these beliefs, yet for total strangers on the internet, you feel it is your "duty" to let them know how wrong they are.

Then you said: "Many times my wife has asked me why do I bother trying to explain reality to Christians when they refuse to believe. "

Why do you care what others believe. I don't think anyone here has said you are wrong for being an atheist, yet you seem to tell us over and over and over again how wrong we are for believing in God.

The more you talk, the more you prove the Hub is correct about fundamental atheists. So by all means, keep bashing.


savvydating profile image

savvydating 3 years ago

Reality Talk, I don't try to convert people, as you stated. I feel no anger towards you at all. You are free to believe as you wish. Again, I have provided reference material on nearly all religious forums or questions asked --usually in detail, but that's neither here nor there.

It would be better if you refrained from creating a false persona about what I have said, done, not done, what I believe, and how I came to believe it. I have not attacked you, but I did say that your arguments are not good. However, I may have come off as condescending, and for that I apologize once more.

By the way, I am glad that you help your neighbor. That's a good thing.


PhoenixV profile image

PhoenixV 3 years ago from USA

While Christians built Harvard and Yale (and many other original colonial colleges) and just about every one room school in the USA as well as founding major charities and hospitals, atheists did nothing.


RealityTalk profile image

RealityTalk 3 years ago from Planet Earth

MkL, you prove me right with every word you write. You avoid proving your religion despite being challenged again & again, because you can't. You prove you don't even believe your own words or you would offer some evidence. I'm bashing? Okay, if that is all you understand. You are a coward, a fraud, & you do not even have an ounce of faith in your own religion. You proved me correct by attacking the person & not the answering the challenge put forth; Logic 101 - definition of a false argument. I need write no more. It is a waste of my time. You also proved you do not believe in the teachings of your prophet Jesus & the words of your book the bible. You twist good intentions & kind words to your perverted & distorted & confused lack of mental thinking to maintain your ego & to keep your beliefs which teeter on the edge of the precipice of your faith from slipping over & gone. Now, you can consider this bashing. This is a major reason why so many atheists may appear to come at you so harsh. You are oblivious to any iota of fact or truth even if right in front of your face. I feel so sorry for you. On your deathbed you will be praying to your false god while crying why won't he help you & no answer will come. Remember your false beliefs when you are ill; do not ask a doctor for help; just pray - if you believe god is there & prayer saves lives. I won't ask you to prove yourself anymore, because you won't - you admit you can't by your false arguments - no, your lack of arguments in defense of your philosophy & the use of your defensive attacks to mask your fear of the truth I put before you. Go ahead & have the last word on this Hub; you know you can't avoid doing it - your ego needs it to keep itself intact. I do not need to convince you of anything. I wasn't trying & I won't try. And, intelligent discourse with someone who has already made up his mind within his mind with no outside help, research or fact is impossible, so I will move on to discussion with rational open-minded people. Good-bye & may your disillusioned mind remain deluded so your ego will continue to believe it is so much smarter than it really is. May you never have to face reality; it will hit you hard if you do.

savvingdating, I too apologize if I have offended you in any way. I truly do wish you well in life. To each their own philosophy & may happiness be yours. As far as proving your religion as truth, you have not done so despite what you claim. You have not even tried. You have addressed some comments I made, but none about the reality of your religion. It is an easy thing to do if the proof is there. It is an impossible thing to do if there is no proof. Your lack of trying, tells me you have no proof - so as the cornered debater struggles to keep the debate going, you circle and avoid the topic hoping the time runs out or I just go away. You win. I will go away. You won't, can't, present anything remotely resembling a valid, rational and or logical argument as to why your religion should be believed and thought of as credible. As I wrote to MkL above, I am done here. It is obvious an intelligent discussion is impossible. I have nothing to prove, you do. I am not claiming a supernatural being looking exactly like a man exists & created human kind & all existence; you are. I am claiming he does not exist. It is not incumbent on me to prove Santa Claus is not real. It is incumbent on you to prove he does exist.

Even Ranzi who claims to have written an objective Hub on religion & Atheism has failed at that attempt. Ranzi throws in a little here and there about religious fanatics to make herself appear neutral, but she quickly moves to claim it is the Atheist who is flawed & afraid of "god" and the religious believer. She points out many good qualities of the religious believer & what she believes to be the many flaws of the Atheist. In that, she has only succeeded to write a piece that does nothing more than attempt to make those not believing in any of the 1000 of religions man has fabricated throughout history as being flawed & misguided human beings who would be better off with religion even if not true. The piece reminds me of the Intelligent Design argument which replaced religious arguments of the past - ID is a religious argument pretending to be scientific to placate the faithful who started to believe maybe science had a valid point by making the religious argument seem a little more "sciency."

So, as I wrote above to MkL, I bid you farewell. Go ahead & write the last words. Call me whatever names you wish. Trash me in that Christian way of love if you will. I won't read it. I see no sense in it. Walk away believing I wanted the last word & I ran. The truth is I just see no point in a discussion that is not a discussion. You do not want to hear my point of view. You merely want to impress me with yours.

I still honestly wish you well. I wish you a good life with much happiness. Maybe our next Hub correspondence will be on a topic we share some points of agreement & we can correspond in a pleasant exchange of ideas and philosophies. Enjoy the rest of the weekend!


PhoenixV profile image

PhoenixV 3 years ago from USA

Atheist call people delusional and 90% of their so called arguments are ad homs. That's because atheists like "make believing they are psychiatrists". Meanwhile many geniuses like Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz were believers, producing things such as infinitesimal calculus and mathematical notation. On the other hand atheists like dawkins coined another word for " fad " ie. meme.


Mklow1 3 years ago

RealityTalk said: "I do not need to convince you of anything. I wasn't trying & I won't try."

Then why did you make that gigantic speech above? It seems like you are trying really hard to convince me that God is not real. Why do you care so much about my beliefs? Why can you not live and let live? Was there something in your childhood that makes you so angry at those that believe in religion?

You said: "You avoid proving your religion despite being challenged again & again, because you can't."

I have not avoided it, nor do I have to prove it. This is not a Hub talking about God being real or fake. This is a Hub about fanatical, rude fundamental atheists like yourself that taunt those that don't believe like you. If you would like to do that, go with your other fanatics and rant about how "delusional" we are.

You said: "Go ahead & have the last word on this Hub; you know you can't avoid doing it - your ego needs it to keep itself intact."

You nailed me on this one. I readily admit I like to get the last word in, but at least I can admit it. Now the million dollar question is can you follow this same advice? If you answer again, that will make you 1. Needing to get the last word in to stroke your ego and 2. A hypocrite.

Now, let's see what happens next. lol


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

Hey Thomas, nice to see you on here and thanks for your great analysis of the atheists and religious person. You make some valuable points about many of the psychologies in regards to both sides of the need of belief and non belief. Of course your world and my world are not full of nothingness because we may have made our choices of non belief independently. However some people are vulnerable and their cognitive needs for belief may be different to ours. There are those who are easily swayed and influenced, however it’s important for them to find their own truth only when they are seeking it. As well, I'm against any sort of aggressive conversion on both sides. At the same time I have no tolerance for those who argue their point with people of faith in a condescending and disrespectful manner, and by insulting things that may be sacred to the believer’s heart and soul.

Some scientist also say that love is not real but a chemical imbalance in the brain and the dopamine level released are similar to cocaine, yet people are seeking love all the time. Do we have the right to tell them to stop seeking it since it’s just a delusion? Should we call them weak, delusional and stupid? However there’s definitely nothing wrong with educating people by writing about it in an objective and factual matter. I’m quite familiar with your work, and a big fan of your writing and sometimes I may not agree with some of the articles, such as “Are Jesus and Lucifer the same” I find your articles well written, well researched, well referenced and thought provoking.

You’re right, religion doesn't make a lot of sense to me and from my perception I see it filled with tales, especially in the old testament. I will challenge those who are aggressive towards me and push for a debate, and I may ask them certain questions to make my point. However I will never be rude, disrespectful and call them delusional. I will never call them unintelligent and I will never compare their story to a pretend super man or fairytales to prove my argument or insist that ‘I’m right and they are wrong’ Although religion may not make a lot of sense to me, does not mean my sense is right? Also unlike politics and social issues religion and spiritual beliefs are a sensitive and sacred matter? Now the fundamental atheists will be so arrogant to be certain that out of billions of beliefs and opinions in the world his opinion is quite special, right and the only one that matters. The fundamental atheist will enforce their views no matter what. They are just as bad as the fundamental christian or worse. The ‘fundamental’ christian many times is only trying to warn us about a danger, supposedly save us from hell and all they talk about is this Jesus that loves us, to love each other, to forgive, to not judge although they may still enforce their opinion and door knock. I’m not sure what the ‘fundamental’ atheist is really doing except trying to scream out that they are quite unique in opinion, not a follower, a realist, God hates us, we’re all crazy, we're children, we’re all wrong and they are only right, and are basically enforcing their opinion and telling everyone to snap out of their so called delusions. But what is real anyway? And what is a delusion? Nothing in this world is certain or for sure. In the end my opinion is just my opinion, it may ring true to some people and it may not. This particular article could even offend chritians as I’m telling people what is it to you if christinans want to believe in fairytales and funny enough this hub did slightly offend my christian sister because I said “However, do I have the right to take away someone’s joy in tales that bring them peace?” because to her they are not tales but the truth.

I have read your article about the criticism of religion and find them of top standard and excellent. I may not always agree with every word you may write, but I find you quite respectful in your ways as you don’t enforce your views on anyone. I know that you don’t go out of your way and search the web to offend Christians, but hypothetically even if you did, I may not agree with your behaviour, but it does not mean I will lose respect for you as a talented writer.

Thanks again for stopping. As always I’m looking forward to reading more of your work.


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

Hey Realitytalk, my apologies that you found yourself in a debate on my hub, although I noticed that it was because people were defending their faith after you insulted it.

My article is not targeted at popular opinion and it’s basically my opinion of my perceptions. Does that mean that they are right? Depends on your model of the world. If you noticed in the beginning of my article I wrote that this is not about proving whether religion is right or wrong, but you wrote quite a lengthy reply about why religion to you is a delusion and full of fairies. Well, I let it slide and basically was impressed with your story and courage at sharing. If you also noticed that I made it clear that I’m ONLY talking to one type of atheist, the FUNDAMENTAL. However based on your later responses you showed yourself as a fundamental. But if you don’t see yourself that way, then why all the fuss? Just because you wrote a hub or two about your atheist enlightenment and just because you had a few debates in the religion forums that turned nasty, does that really make you a fundamental atheist?

Personally, I actually don’t see you as a fundamental atheist, but only as a ignorant atheist with the attitude of ‘I’m right and you are wrong’. You saying statements such as, “I cannot pretend that your made up superman & his winged servants is real” is quite a disrespectful statement to say in order to argue and prove your point. Mocking people’s God’s and faith in such a condescending way is pretty ignorant and I’m actually not surprised by the response you received. Religion and spirituality is personal and sacred matter to many people. It’s like basically insulting someone’s mother. There’s a big difference in saying “I don’t agree with your mother’s behavior … I don’t believe your mother is truthful” to saying things like “you mother is an evil wh**e…. your mother is a deceitful con artist.” One is arguing while being respectful, the other is downright rude.

RT what I’m writing here is not only targeted at you, but based on my own experience with atheists. I have been to both an atheist meeting and a Christian one, and I actually found the atheist one full of people with anger issues and pent up emotions, while the christian meeting left me feeling calm and feeling loved. Fortunately the only thing I have in common with the atheist is our lack of belief in a God, however I will never even waste my time waging a war with this god and being insulted by the devil and hell as in my mind they don’t exist. And although in my mind God doesn’t exist, I’m always open to any possibility as in this world what is reality anyway?

When I was about 18 I went to this friends house who was a hindu and in the corner of the room she had all these strange statues. I remember one of an elephant and another of a man with eight hands. I personally found all those statues weird and may have not agreed with her beliefs. Does that give me the right to be disrespectful and say “Wow! Man you’re weird. Are you seriously delusional praying to an elephant? You may as well pray to spiderman!”

In the end my apologies realitytalk, don’t take this as a personal attack as although I may not agree with your behavior it doesn’t mean I don’t respect you as an individual, value your writing and even suspect we have a few things in common.


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

You're pretty spot on PhoenixV, I have noticed that many atheist arguments while browsing the God forums and through facebook are full of personal attacks.

Although I may not have a lot of faith because I just don't get religion, I know of many atheist who were actually brainwashed by Dawkins himself.

http://brainz.org/50-most-influential-christians-a...


PhoenixV profile image

PhoenixV 3 years ago from USA

My points remain,

Where were atheists when Christians built the Colonial Colleges like Harvard and Yale and founded many of the other major colleges and all the one room schools every three square miles all across the inhabited US?

Where were atheists when Christianity founded Hospitals and major charities?

When an atheists claims that quote "religion retarded advancements in science, health and engineering. That is a fact of history!"

Christians and Christianity DID advance these things on a large scale.

Where were atheists then?

In the case of Gottfried Leibniz and many many other believers they actually CREATED the math and sciences, themselves.

Where were atheists then? I will tell you where.

Atheism biggest historical contribution to humanity so far is the mass murdering regimes they have built.


savvydating profile image

savvydating 3 years ago

...as in Stalin's 20 to 60 million killed:

http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-joseph-...

or Mao's 45 million killed:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/bo...

Stalin and Mao, both atheists, both communist, both proponents of Karl Marx, atheist and communist-- all contemptuous of Christianity - enough so, to punish brutally.


Mklow1 3 years ago

Ranzi,

I am sorry to have turned your excellent Hub into a battleground, but I too have frustrations with those that feel they are free of acting in a polite manner just because they are on the internet. I know I come off as argumentative, but if you look at my past debates, they all have been because I felt I had to defend something that was close to me. My country, my beliefs, so on and so forth.

With that said, I do tend to go over the top at times, but am trying to work on letting things go.


savvydating profile image

savvydating 3 years ago

I also wish to say, Ranzi, that I appreciate your having given me the opportunity to speak up for myself. I fully realize that many Christian fundamentalists can be a pain in the neck. That having been said, the fundamental atheists I have run across tend to consistently act out in a bitter and sarcastic manner, as you know. It's just not cool to be for either side to be abusive.

For any of your readers who are interested, Peter Hitchens, the brother of Christopher Hitchens, discusses atheist fundamentalism in his book, The Rage Against God. Peter loved his brother, Christopher, by the way-- very much. As you know, Christopher Hitchens is a famous atheist. Actually, he is now deceased.


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

MKlow yes I know first hand what it feels like to debate with you! At least we are on the same side for once haha :) hubpages should give you the debater of the month award.

You have every right to defend your faith when attacked and ridiculed. I have no problem with atheists challenging religion in a constructive manner or even asking challenging questions to prove their points, however I can't tolerate them when they cross the line by disrespecting your personal beliefs and calling you delusional, making fun of your prophets, comparing your God to super man and worse of all saying things like, quote ... "I feel so sorry for you. On your deathbed you will be praying to your false god while crying why won't he help you & no answer will come your false God" ... This statement is quite disrespectful. I mean, do these people have to be that insensitive towards religious people who are on their deathbeds praying for hope as we speak?


Ranzi profile image

Ranzi 3 years ago from All Over Author

Savy as well, you have a right to defend your beliefs and views. Same as if a christian called an atheist soulless or immoral, then the atheist has every right to defend themselves as well.

Trust me, I can so easily right a hub about the fundamental Christian who is trying to enforce their ways into our society and government.

Any form of extremist view that enforce personal beliefs on another is wrong full stop.

I have never heard of this book but I will definitely check it out! So thanks. I always appreciate your wonderful and insightful comments.

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