The Lamb's Book of Life 1 of 2

The Great White Throne Judgment

In Revelation 20:12 we read about the Great White Throne judgment of God, where John “saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.”

Have you ever wondered what the Book of Life is? When did it come about? Whose names are in it? What is the difference between the book of life and “the books” present at the Great White Throne judgment? I don’t know about you, but I want to know if my name is written in the book of life.

What IS The Book of Life?

The book of life is also known as the Lamb’s Book of Life. If we begin with Rev 13:8 we read, “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him [the Antichrist], whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

Obviously, we see this passage has to do with the coming Great Tribulation and the reign of the Antichrist. The prophet Daniel wrote in Dan 12:1 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.”

That’s quite a promise! Rev 13:8 states that the Lamb was predestined to be slain since the foundation of the world, and everyone written in it were also predestined to be there. Are some predestined and some not? On the contrary. I believe everyone’s names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life as soon as they are conceived and formed in their mothers’ wombs. For more evidence of this, I hope you will read the sequel hub And The Books Were Opened.

David wrote in Ps 139:15-16 “My frame was not hidden from You, when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; and in Your book were all written the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them.” Was David not born into sin like all of us? He surely was!! "Behold, I was brought forth in inquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." (Psalm 51:5). See, "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Rom 5:8).

Didn’t Jesus say, “Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven”?

Note Jesus' words spoken in John 15:22: "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin." When did God first speak to mankind? In the Garden. Adam and Eve were not created in sin, but chose to reject God's Word. Since that time, all are born into sin and have the choice to obey His Word or not, sealing their eternal life or death. Truly, babies are born at different times; likewise, rebirth (being "born again") happens at different times. Only God knows when one will be called to be born again in his or her lifetime (Acts 13:48; 2 Cor 6:2/Isa 49:8).

Considering these things, we cannot claim that everyone ever born is saved for all eternity. John 3:16 states, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” While 1 John 4:14 states, “We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world", we must also have clear understanding of 1 Tim 4:10 - “For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially [malista - chiefly, particularly] of believers.”

The Bible is clear that while Jesus Christ is the Savior of all men, not everyone will be saved in the end. Rev 13:8 states that there will be those “whose names are not written in the book of life”.

The Predestination of The Lamb

Now, there wouldn’t be a “Lamb’s” Book of Life without the Lamb, would there? God indeed foreknew mankind would fall from the get-go and that through the shed blood of the Lamb all sin would be reconciled. Obviously, Abel discovered that sacrificing a lamb was acceptable and pleasing to God, while Cain’s sacrifice of the fruit of the ground was not.

We all know the story of the deliverance of Israel from Egypt. When Pharaoh refused to obey God in setting the Israelites free, God sent the death angel to take the lives of their first-born sons. The Israelites were told to wipe the blood of a lamb over their doorposts, which would cause the death angel to “pass over” their households. In remembrance of this “salvation” from death, a lamb was sacrificed by the Jewish priests every year at Passover, until the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, gave His life on the cross at Calvary…sure enough, at Passover.

Heb 9:24-26 tell us “For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.”

Predestined Consummation

The only scripture we find in the Bible about “all” being “saved” is in Rom 11:26, a New Testament confirmation of Isaiah 59:20 “All Israel will be saved”. This is a mystery, which is now revealed. The book of Romans tells us in 16:25, “Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith.”

I will be writing a separate hub on the mystery of “spiritual Israel” to enlighten you as to what this means. What we must understand is that the Bible talks about flesh and spirit. This fleshly earth is a mirror of the spiritual kingdom. Since the foundation of the earth a spiritual battle has been going on in the heavens, manifested in the earthly realm. The Bible tells us that “we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Eph 6:12) and “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds” (2 Cor 10:4).

Now, if we look at John 3:16 the criteria for our names being in the Lamb’s Book of Life is “whosoever believes in Him”. Eph 2:8 tells us that by His grace we are saved through faith. Heb 11:1 says “faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen”. If you read Heb 11, you will notice all the "fathers of faith" listed there lived long before the Law was ever given to Moses. 2 Tim 1:9 confirms "Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began." How do we obtain this faith? Rom 10:17 says “faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of Christ”.

Truly, Jesus said, “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself" (John 12:32). "God is no respecter of persons" (Acts 10:34). Do you see? All are predestined for salvation through faith in Him, which comes by His grace through faith that comes by hearing the Word. However, just as man was given the choice to reject Satan and his word(s), he also has the choice to reject God and His Word.

Jesus said in John 12:47-48, “If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.” Right now, we are in the “age of grace”. Every minute of every day, every morning you wake up and breathe in the life-giving air, smell the fragrance of the flowers, feel the warmth of the sun on your face and see the smile of your loved ones, God is gracing you with His love. Just as you were predestined to be born, you also have an appointed time to die. Heb 9:27-28 state, “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.”

Did you notice the words “bear the sins of many”? What happened to Christ bearing the sins of the whole world? There is more to be shown, which continues in the sequel, And The Books Were Opened.

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46 comments

Brie Hoffman profile image

Brie Hoffman 6 years ago from Manhattan

Very good Hub, I know my name is written in the Lamb's book of Life, and further than that if you don't KNOW your name is there, it most likely isn't.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you, Brie! You are so right!!! 1 John 5:13 states, "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life." Hallelujiah! God bless you, sister!!


"Quill" 6 years ago

Hi Sis...just knowing is enough but to live as though it is written is the key to happiness and peace while we are here...

Blessings


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Amen, brother Quill! The angel wrote to the church at Sardis in Rev 3:1b-3, "I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you." Blessings, brother!


coffeesnob 6 years ago

JD

I absolutely jump for joy with such writings as these. The Lamb's Book of Life, The fact of Hebrews that Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, also that whosoever believes in the Lord jesus Christ will be saved and that when He is lifted up that he will draw all to Him - I am excited at the many here on hp who lift Him up and you are so teaching God's word and truth - press on and keep lifting Him up!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Sister coffeesnob, we jump for joy together!! I think of hp as AMPM (All My People Minister), 'cause there's "too much good stuff"! I wish I could keep up with everyone that's blazing the fire of the Lord! Thank you so much for your words of encouragement and blessing. God bless you! Hope you read the sequel "And The Books Were Opened" to get blessed even more!!


no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York

We labor to the end that we bring as many people with us to heaven as possible. We reason with them and give them the clear choice. The Holy Spirit enlightens their heart and lets them see who it was that died for them. It is then they have the choice. Every man gets that choice. He died for every man. The conviction comes to their heart and they know at that moment who they accept or reject. They will remember that moment forever. The moment of accepting or that moment of rejecting. Our job my sister is to present it with love, patience, intelligence and personally to each person we come into contact with. I see the clearity of the Lord here and those that read it will too. Praise God for your obedience. Such a role model to me and to all our Christian family. I love you so much my sister. Bob.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi dear brother Bob! I hope you know you were in my prayers yesterday! Wow, when I asked you to pray for me for a fresh anointing, I had no idea the Lord would give me so much inspiration that I've been writing ever since!

We do labor to the end that we bring as many people with us to heaven as possible ~ thus, when I get tired in the flesh I feel the urgency to keep on witnessing. Can't do it in the flesh; gotta have the anointing, praise God. He is so faithful.

I so appreciate your wonderful words. You said it so well and I thank you for the prayers and your faithful friendship. Your patience, love and willingness to always pray for me is a role model to me and all who know you! I love you also, brother. God bless you.


Pastor_Walt profile image

Pastor_Walt 6 years ago from Jefferson City, Tennessee

A beautiful and well written hub! Thanks!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Why, thank you, Pastor Walt! I hope you'll get to read the rest in part 2 (link above) ~ it's so good we're in touch here on HubPages! God bless you, brother!


Michael Adams1959 profile image

Michael Adams1959 6 years ago from Wherever God leads us.

AWESOME! I love this writing. And yes my name IS written in the Lamb's Book of Life PRAISE GOD!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi brother Michael! I'm so thrilled you were blessed by this hub!!! And I share in the joy of knowing our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life ~ LIFE!!! Hallelujah!! God bless you!!!!


Disappearinghead profile image

Disappearinghead 6 years ago from Wales, UK

Good hub JD.

Let none of us ever become complacent though as we all know people both here in hub-land and in the real world, who once walked with Jesus, but now do not. Many think they still do, but their hearts are far from Him. As I look back over my life, I see perods where I have wandered off.

May the Lord continually extend His grace to keep us, and may we all be ever working out our salvation with fear and trembling.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Amen, brother. I think I wandered off for about 14 years ~ but God knows it was because I didn't feel worthy of His love and was grieving my sin. I had to receive and believe in forgiveness. The Lord knows our hearts...I wrote a hub about this called "Walk of Shame and Forgiveness" I pray will help others come home, too. What a beautiful day that was in March 2009 when the Lord reached in and set me upright in His love. I felt it and my life's not been the same since. Praise Him!!

We must fear God with reverence and awe, knowing that if we willfully take advantage of His grace unto a life of sin and ignoring His promptings, He is the righteous Judge. It's truly like a marriage ~ let us not become idolatrous and walk in hypocricy, for God knows...God knows who are His, which are those who genuinely love Him. Love bears His fruit and I pray my leaves never wither. God bless us all! He loves us and is long-suffering toward us. What a great and awesome love!


the lord 6 years ago

Maybe you people should start studying statistics like how many jewish people are in prison, jail, homeless, divorced. There is a reason that the word "good" has to be placed in front of christian. You are only fooling yourself if you think you will be saved by believing in christ. Not all that said is true, and not all that's. True is said. Matt 6:5


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 6 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hello, 'the lord' ~ I'm not sure where you're coming from ~ the Bible surely says that faith without works is dead (Jam 2:26); however, it also says we are not saved by our works (Eph 2:8-9).

Consider the words of Jesus in Mat 25:34-36 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'"

Now, let's go on (v 37-40): "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'"

Jesus was born a Jew and the Jews are His brothers. They are the 'cultivated olive tree' (Rom 11:24). Truly, those Jews who reject their Messiah, Jesus Christ, are cut off from that tree, while Gentiles who accept their Messiah are grafted into that tree. The Lord wanted His gospel of salvation preached to the Jew first (Mat 15:24; Rom 1:16). I strongly suggest you read the second half of this teaching (the link is provided at the base of this hub) called "And the Books Were Opened".

If you think being 'good' will keep a person out of prison, or keep them from being homeless, you need to study the Bible about the apostles (arrested many times) and Jesus Christ, who had nowhere to lay His head.

Truly, some of the Jews (Messianic or not) and those who claim to be 'Christians' are merely giving lip service (Isa 29:13; Mat 15:8) and doing good works, merely to be seen of men, which is what Mat 6:5 is all about. To 'believe' in Christ is to entrust one's spiritual well-being to Him. It means to die to self and live for Christ. This is salvation. There is no other way.

Hypocricy is to practice one thing and preach another; and it's also to exalt oneself rather than exalting the Lord God and Savior, Jesus Christ. I hope you find this response helpful for your edification.


masterteacher888 3 years ago

great conversation


confused 2 years ago

If Jesus was a Jew and not a Christian than is it only the Jewish people that will be saved?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 2 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hello confused...Read Romans 11 and understand that ANYONE who believes and serves the One True God (YHWH) who saved us by His own blood (Acts 20:28) is "Israel". It was after God came in the flesh and died to FORGIVE us our sins (not simply pass them over, as in the Old Testament), which is the "New Covenant in My blood", followers of Christ were called "Christians" (Acts 11:26). Jews today are either called so by ancestry or because they follow Moses (Torah), yet reject Jesus Christ. To reject Jesus Christ, they reject YHWH for He is one in the same God. They did not know Him, as He said to those who were blind. For this reason, they were cut off so that non-Jews could be grafted into the One Tree, called "Israel". If they do not continue in their disbelief, they can be grafted in again - to their own tree. Blessings.


Hell N0 19 months ago

Boy i missed this one. R u freaking kidding? There r several scriptures that say Christ will save all. And thousands that point to ultimate salvation of all. Btw, the book of life is a symbol for those chosen before the ages. Again, destroying the free will thing. U actually think it's a literal book? Of course you do.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Well hello, my Universalist buddy! Where you been? Please read the sequel (link at the base of this hub, entitled "And the Books Were Opened". Hope to see you there.


Hell N0 19 months ago

Guess life got n the way. Ramantic life, pursuit of money, etc. look, i may visit any site but i probably wont read that much. Becuz, i know scripturally i am right. And the spirit tells me it makes 10 billion x more sense for all to eventually b saved than most roasting like a burnt rib roast for eternitty. I understand u study exaustively and i don't even find time these days. But i know what i know. And hellers like u prove that no amount of brains or study can overcome being spiritually blind. Sorry for my candor.


Hell N0 19 months ago

Oh come now, more deleations? Are you that afraid of challenges? Can't ur readers decide who is right? Apparently not huh?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

No, no deletions, Hell No. I just have comment moderation turned on and am not on this site everyday. You posted 18 hours ago, then an hour later, assumed I deleted your comment, which was not the case.

Though we don't share the same theology, I do appreciate you as a person - your wit, especially. Come on over to hub #2 "And The Books Were Opened" - at least, in there, you might find something fascinating - that everyone's names start out in the Book of Life: the good, the bad and the ugly. Truly, Jesus is the Savior of all men. And yes, names do get blotted out, namely for rejecting the salvation already provided for them since the foundation of the world.

If you're trusting in Jesus Christ for your salvation, enter His rest (Heb 4). There is none righteous, no not one, and God is not going to throw most everyone into a purging lake of fire to purify them, that they be holy enough for heaven. No one is holy enough for heaven. Jesus alone IS our holiness. We are saved by His name, by His blood, by what He accomplished. We are saved by trusting in Him alone for our salvation. This doesn't mean we carelessly sin all the more, but ask Him to do His good works through us and repent when we fail, because we will. Confess our sins to Him and He will forgive us and cleanse us - right then and there.

1 John 1:9 NLT "But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness." When Jesus healed the sick man, note the man had to have faith in the fact Jesus would heal him to even be there in that room. Thus, Jesus said "Thy sins are forgiven thee" and the man was healed (i.e. Mat 9:2) - did He forgive the man's sin right then, or did that guy have to wait to go through the lake of fire after he died? No sin, no fire.

Eph 2:8-9 NLT "God saved you by his grace WHEN you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it."

Hell No, receive salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. Trust Him to forgive your sin. It doesn't matter what you believe about "hell" because there won't be one; there won't be a lake of fire in your future - ever. The good news is, no one who believes by faith will ever suffer such a fate, even for a moment.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hell No, I do want to address one more thing with you here - that is about "fire", which is defined as trials and afflictions. Catholic doctrine teaches about those who die and go to PURGatory, so PURGatory (from where we get the word 'purge') is similar to what Universalists believe - people go there to be purged of their sins. This is a false doctrine.

Jesus told us, even after He was baptized in H2O that He had a baptism to undergo (Luke 12:50), speaking of the cross (that was a baptism of fire, the baptism He baptizes believers with). Throughout the Scriptures we read how faith is tested by "fire" and yet, because we are empowered by His Spirit and place our faith in Him, we "shall come forth as gold" (Job 23:10). This testing happens in THIS mortal life, not post-death. We need the endowment with power (Acts 1:8) to overcome, to endure to the end, even to our death (though not all will sleep, as Paul tells us of the rapture in 1 Cor 15:51).

I invite you to read about the baptism that saves here: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/BAPTISM-no...

Blessings.


Hell N0 19 months ago

There is no judgment required for forgiveness. Forgiveness of all sins took place on the cross. But that doesn't mean our sins r gone. That takes judgment. And of course the lake of fire is fire baptism. The notion that it has to happen while still alive is an ass umption passed down from generations that used fear to keep people in line. U think its real fire? In a book of symbols? Shows the fruits of ur "exaustive" study.

Well it is very nice of you to state that i can go to ur heaven claiming ur god is a terrorist. (Where does scripture say we go to a place called heaven anyway?). Unfortunately, i have said time and time again that i would not want to be with a god that has billions burning in a place called hell for all eternitty. Would rather never living again than to know that so many r screaming in horific pain forever. Just a sick damn (and unscriptural) doctrine.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hell No, the Bible says that the rich man in Hades was in torment "in these flames" - torment. Sound biblical doctrine tells you that God "remembers your sins no more" Isa 43:25 NLT "I--yes, I alone--will blot out your sins for my own sake and will never think of them again." And it is written in Jer 31:34 NLT "And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, 'You should know the LORD.' For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already," says the LORD. "And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins."

So, when Jesus told the man lowered on the cot that his sins were forgiven (for the man believed), do you think his sins were not forgotten and so he had to suffer post-death torment of "fire" (figurative), in order to pay for his sins? JESUS PAID IT ALL. ALL TO HIM I OWE. SIN HAS LEFT A CRIMSON STAIN. HE WASHED IT WHITE AS SNOW. THAT is the GOOD NEWS. Trust in Him alone to forgive and FORGET your sins and know it is He who is your HOLINESS and is your SAVIOR. From death to LIFE, not to the "fire".


Hell N0 19 months ago

His sins were forgiven. I have no idea if he "will" go through the first or second ressurection. Most will go through the second. Don't know if He was given the holly spirit when Christ sent it. He was physically cured. Ur rich man lazarus statement is more church chat with no spiritual backing. Didn't i write a hub on that? Of course i did. Its speaking of an entire society of men. The rich man is spiritual judah. No fire in hades. Again, exaustive study does little when ur spirit is asleep.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hell No, the gospel truth is, we are saved by FAITH, not by our works. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (that means, He forgets them) and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness. HE does the cleansing, not the "fire". Our faith is tested by fire, and if our faith is false (lip service), we will not endure. If we don't receive His power (by His Spirit), we will not endure. This will distinguish the wheat from the tares. The wheat will be raised in the first resurrection and go on to eternal life. The tares will be raised in the second resurrection and go on to eternal death (cut off).

We've discussed "eternal", Hell No. And, my argument is, you believe eternal means eternal when it is used in reference to God being eternal or eternal life, but you reject its meaning when it comes to the Lake of Fire (the second death). We know God's fire burned in that bush when He spoke to Moses and the bush was not burned up. And it was physical matter. We shall be raised incorruptible, whether to life or to the Lake of Fire.


Hell N0 19 months ago

To b tried is to be judged. Those in the first ressurection go through judgment while alive. They go through trials and tribulation. Fire is fire (physically) and fire is fire (spiritually). I find it appropriate that God inspired the word fire in a book of symbals to symbolize the greatest trials there will ever be. The end is salvation for all.

Are u really implying that i believe aion ever means forever? Have you not read what i have written about the kingdom age? The chosen are not promised eternal life in the scriptures, they are promised to rein with Christ for the eons. Christ is the eionion God. Yes He will always be God, but He turns the kingdom over to the Father once all enemies are put under His feet. You know, death being the last enemy destroyed? At this point all, everybody will be granted immortalitty. Everyone will be saved. Imortality is scriptural. Eternal is "never" scriptural, even in relation to those in the first resurection. And Christ is the Aionian God. It means He is the Head during the kingdom age. And don't put words in my mouth. He will always be the Christ and God. But He does turn the kingdom over to the Father.

I remember how you accussed universalists of acceptin eternal as it relates to our final salvation. I said no such thing. I probably disputed it but you just deleted everything i wrote. Now u can use that half baked argument against most universalists and they usually wont have an answer. I just gave you a scriptural answer debunking ur accusation.

Again, eternal, eternity, forever and ever times forever, are "never" scriptural words. You cant have future eternities, before the eternities, present eternity or contrasting eternities. Those would all be in ur bible if translaters were not more careful with their usages. There are past ages or eins, present eon and future eons. We will b granted immortality after the eions or at the end.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Bottom line, Hell No - you believe "To b tried is to be judged. Those in the first ressurection go through judgment while alive. They go through trials and tribulation. Fire is fire (physically) and fire is fire (spiritually). I find it appropriate that God inspired the word fire in a book of symbals to symbolize the greatest trials there will ever be." Agreed! Where you go wrong is your next statement: "The end is salvation for all."

You've stated you agree that "We will b granted immortality after the eions or at the end." So, what is immortality? Mortal means you die. Immortality means you don't die. Read about the first and second resurrections. Are we raised to mortality or immortality? Corruption or incorruption? All will be raised, but not all will be saved. There is an "eternal fire" and there is "eternal life" (as in life without pain, tears, sorrow, and so forth).

Romans 16:26 uses the word "aiōniou" to describe God as the ETERNAL God. Matthew 25:41 uses the same word to describe the Fire as ETERNAL Fire. So, is God just the God of the ages that start and end, and the Fire is a Fire for immortals who spend an age or two or three in there until God lets them spend the rest of the ages out of the Fire? No. Those raised from mortal death as immortals in the second resurrection go to the aiōniou Lake of Fire. They were not saved, for if they were they would have been raised in the first resurrection and entered aiōniou life with the aiōniou God.

PURGATORY is false and basically, that's what Universalists believe in. You may as well join the Catholic church. You know I respect our debates, Hell No. It's a pleasure to hear from you. Stick around and stir things up. Blessings.


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Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

I'm going to share a thought with you, Hell No. I've often wondered if the wrath of God is not the Fire, and if Satan is not the wrath of God that tries, tests, torments and destroys.

Let's compare 2 Sam 24:1 to 1 Chron 21:1

1 Sam 24:1 NLT "Once again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he caused David to harm them by taking a census. "Go and count the people of Israel and Judah," the LORD told him."

1 Chron 21:1 NLT "Satan rose up against Israel and caused David to take a census of the people of Israel."

The Bible speaks of the "children of wrath" (Eph 2:3) and believers (the saved) are told "God has not appointed us to wrath" (1 Thes 5:9). In fact, let's post the whole verse of 1 Thes 5:9 here:

NLT "For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us."

the KJV translates it as "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ."

The Bible tells us that there are children of God and children of the Devil (or Satan) in 1 John 3:10, so I would reckon that if Satan (Adversary) is the wrath of God and there are children of Satan, these are the children of wrath, or those destined to be in God's eternal wrath in the Lake of Fire, or Lake of God's wrath.

So, we'll close with Mat 25:41 NLT "Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, 'Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons." The Greek uses angelois, rather than daimoniois, so the KJV is most accurate: "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

And yes, we can see that angels are also men, when we read Revelation's letters to the angels of the seven churches. What angels do you know of read letters? Here is the usage of the word in Scripture:

http://biblehub.com/greek/32.htm

Those who preach and teach doctrines of demons (as it's called - lying, false doctrines), you can be assured are the children of wrath, sons of the Devil, who will go into the aiōniou Lake of Fire. Yes, Jesus died for them, but they rejected Him, rejected His propitiation for their sin, refused to put faith in Him for their salvation. It was their choice (Rom 6:16; Deut 30:19; Josh 24:15; Ezek 33:11). Their names were blotted out from the Lamb's Book of Life.


Hell N0 19 months ago

U lie. I back no catholic doctrines such as purgatory. Lake of Fire is Christ and His chosen. And how can one be immortal while unsaved? Btw, i thought hellers believe that the unsaved never die in hell? And finally, boo hoo, so i don't get to go to ur heaven after all? Wo me. Guess i will stick with the real God.


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Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

You look forward to a PURGing Fire? Jesus took on the wrath of God for us, Hell No. If you don't believe the Jesus PAID IT ALL and trust HIM ALONE for your cleansing, forgiveness and righteousness (the righteousness of God in HIM), you will see what you expect to see and if you believe you will somehow live in that Fire for an age or two or three and get let out, having been cleansed by the FIRE and not the BLOOD by FAITH in the only Savior, God Himself, you will be ever waiting to be let out -- forever and ever. There is only ONE WAY and His name is Jesus Christ, our God and Savior. I love you, Hell No - I love you with the love of the LORD, your Creator, who will be either your Savior or your Judge.


Hell N0 19 months ago

Forever and ever and ever? Silly christians and their redundent eternities. Jesus died so that the world could be saved. Otherwise we sleep with the worms forever x forever. Our sins r forgiven because of it. No i don't look forward to purging fire. Perhaps i can be in the first ressurection. Only God knows. I face judgment daily and it aint fun. I'm sure the LOF will be even tougher. I am sure hitler and hellers will face severe judgment. And i don't think it will be quick and over. But no, i would just assume be saved at the first ressurection.


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Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Well, Hell No, if you trust Jesus daily, through all your trials/testing (for when you are tried/tested, it does NOT mean you are under God's wrath, but that He is growing you, maturing you, transforming you into the image of His Son), whether or not you have error in your theology makes no difference to your salvation and partaking in the first resurrection. I think of the words of Jesus on that cross, "Father, forgive them, for they KNOW NOT what they do." What a joy it will be for you to be raised and realize there is no Fire. I really hope to meet you on the other side and just give you a hug and say, "Rejoice"! Blessings to you.


Hell N0 19 months ago

Problem though. I call ur god a terrorist. I teach what u call of the devil and will confidently continue unless the real God calls me away from it. Not saying i am really a teacher. I just want to expose those horrible teachings of the church, partly out of frustation against their evil. But i would hope to plant a seed of doubt in hellers and perhaps help those terrified by their teachings. I will c u at some point. Perhaps at the end of the ages.


Hell N0 19 months ago

No, but not everyone in the Lake of Fire will be under God's wrath either. Now maybe u don't realize it but the saved will judge the earth with Christ. Do you think little unborn babies will judge the earth? How about teenagers? I don't think so because they have not matured as humans let alone matured in Christ. They must mature. A baby must learn and yes, learn about evil as well.

So u r saying that all i have to do is call on christ (i do call on Christ daily) to be saved and avoid an eternity of fire? What if its the wrong one? Better yet, ray smith trusted and believed in God with all of his heart. But his theology was just about opposite of urs. Where is he in ur oppinion? The scriptures say he is in hades where there is no thought or experience awaiting ressurection. But what do u think?


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Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

I'll respond to both of your comments above here in one response, Hell No. We do share one passion and that is exposing the false teachings of the "church". The danger in "teaching" all will be saved is those who believe this (most) have to look forward to an age or two or three (or more) in a Lake of Fire. It's kind of like a pregnant woman who had a nightmare experience with her first birth looking forward to it again and again and again - no relief. At least I can know when I'm done having children, I never have to endure such a trial again. I always say, if you're saved, this world is the most hell you will ever see. If you're not saved, this world is the most heaven you will ever see.

I agree that the saved will judge the earth with Christ. We don't know if babies are resurrected as babies, or teens as teens. Who knows? I do know Jesus was teaching when He was a youth. We don't know what His life and authority was like as a young toddler.

Yes, I am saying all you have to do is call on Christ to be saved, ask that His Spirit be in you, live through you, teach you and guide you through every trial in this world. See, Satan told Jesus that all the kingdoms of this world had been handed to him (Luke 4:6) and he is called the "god of this world" or "god of this age" (2 Cor 4:4). Who was given authority over the entire world in the beginning? Adam. Adam and Eve "They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground." (Gen 1:26). When they obeyed Satan, they handed their God-given authority over to him. Jesus, as the "last Adam" took it back for us (post-resurrection in Mat 28:18). By His power and authority (not by might or by [our] power, but by My Spirit, saith the LORD - Zech 4:6; Acts 1:8) we are able to overcome. And, even death (mortality) has lost its sting.

Ray Smith? God is the One who will decide if he truly was ignorant and was sincere in His love for God and whether or not he trusted (had faith) in Jesus Christ alone to save him. If so, he found out there is no Fire. If he knew what he was doing and didn't trust (have faith) in Jesus Christ alone to save him, he now knows there is no escape - he awaits the second resurrection and final sentencing to the Lake of Fire (God's wrath). Whether or not the dead are not conscious of anything until the resurrection is debated. The souls under the alter (at the 5th seal) who were slain were certainly crying out to God in Rev. 6:9.

Then, we have the thief on the cross being told that day he would be with Christ in Paradise (Luke 23:43). The Tree of Life is in the Paradise of God (Rev 2:7), so that must also be the New Jerusalem (Rev 22:14), which comes down out of heaven from God to the New Earth, as a "Bride adorned for Her Husband" (Rev 21:2).

So much awesome stuff in the Word. Such a love letter. The Bible begins with a marriage and ends with a Marriage. Our whole relationship with God is a Bridegroom who paid the Bride price (Mohar) and proposes to us. We either accept or reject His proposal (Mat 22:13) here and now. For it is appointed unto every man once to die (mortality) and after this, the Judgement (Heb 9:27) - either to life or to the second death, which is the Lake of Fire.

Those are my thoughts. Blessings.


Hell N0 19 months ago

You do not expose false teachings of the church. You believe most of them. I understand u may have a different opinion about the trinity and a few other things but come on. You and i share very little as far as beliefs. Sure, we do our best to trust Christ for our salvation (mine ultimately saves the world, urs saves a minority of those who have lived). I wouldn't mind so much if u didn't have the lost baking like a thanksgiving turkey forever.

God created man kind to have dominion overcthe animal (not the great taneen though). Adam and steve, (excuse me) adam and eve were obviously special creations much later. We can discuss God's creation of evolution any time u like.

Again, Revelation is a book of symbols containing rich spiritual teachings. While absolutely true, those words cannot b taken literally. There r other examples of others calling out from the dead in scripture. They all have spiritual meaning. The dead know nothing.

Ray is dead for now. He was a great teacher of the word he is not the only one. Ignorant though? I think not.


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Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

That is mainly your contention, Hell No (thus, your handle) - you don't believe in judgement (discipline and sentencing are two different things, so understand the meaning of both - look up the words and their definitions) to the Lake of Fire forever (everlasting). You do believe, however, that most will enter the Lake of Fire at which time God will purge them of their sin. Thus, there is no such thing as forgive and forget (as the Bible teaches about God), but sin and punishment to pay for it. Why the Lamb of God? Why does the Bible teach Jesus paid for our sin, forgives and forgets our sin? You don't believe the true gospel, Hell No. Did He shed His blood so we could get let out of the Lake of Fire? What if He didn't shed His blood, would the Lake of Fire be eternal?

Are you admitting then, that the Lake of Fire would otherwise be eternal? So, if you reject the propitiation for your sin through Christ Jesus, you have nullified your salvation provided for you (Gal 2:21). This is why not all will be saved (Heb 9:28; 1 Tim 4:10).

You don't believe the Good News. There is no Lake of Fire for those who put their faith / trust in Jesus Christ alone for their salvation.

1 Cor 11:19 NLT "But, of course, there must be divisions among you so that you who have God's approval will be recognized!"

May believers test all doctrines by the Word and do their best to embrace the Good News.


Hell N0 19 months ago

Good news? Eternal hell? Worst news ever. Without Christ i already told u. Its no living ever again. No LOF, nothing. His death was the final sacrifice required. Remember what sacrificing bulls accomplished? Forgiveness only. That was to be a type and shadow for the ultimate sacrifice for all time. Y do u say i don't believe in judgment? I do and i don't believe u know what judgment is. Sentencing is never mentioned in the scriptures and so what if it was? There is no LOF for those who put their trust in the REAL JESUS CHRIST.


Hell N0 19 months ago

Oh and btw, i still don't know y a torture chamber needs fire and brimstone. What's the brimstone 4?


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Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

"Good news? Eternal hell?" How about "Good news? No Lake of Fire at all?" You are so obsessed with hell, Hell No, that you completely miss the Gospel.

Sentence: Strongs Greek 2917 krima = condemnation, damnation, judgment. From krino; a decision (the function or the effect, for or against ("crime")) -- avenge, condemned, condemnation, damnation, + go to law, judgment. [Avenge does not mean He's avenging the judged, but those the one being sentenced harmed].

Discipline: Strongs Greek 3198 yakach = appoint, argue, chasten, convince, correction, dispute, judge, A primitive root; to be right (i.e. Correct); reciprocal, to argue; causatively, to decide, justify or convict -- appoint, argue, chasten, convince, correct(-ion), daysman, dispute, judge, maintain, plead, reason (together), rebuke, reprove(-r), surely, in any wise. [This is used in the case of disciplining or chastening a son/daughter that is loved].

You can do your own word study of "judge" and "discipline" in the Bible and read the context of each usage, Hell No. Perhaps this is a hub I should write soon, to just make it simple for those who want the bottom line.

The blood of goats and bulls simply "passed over" the sins of the people, year after year (Heb 10:1). It did NOT forgive their sin. Jesus said the New Covenant in His blood would take away their sin. THAT is the good news! Because the Lamb slain was predestined from the foundation of the world, this practice was only a "shadow" of the reality/fulfillment found in Christ.

Heb 9:26 NAS "Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself." This term "put away" is athetésis - a setting aside, annulment

From atheteo; cancellation (literally or figuratively) -- disannulling, put away.

Just a couple of chapters later (Heb 11) we read all about the fathers of FAITH - yes, all these lived before the Law of God and Law of Moses were given on Mt. Sinai.

You must know about forgiveness, Hell No - look at the parable of the man forgiven his debt (no payment, even through slavery to pay off his debt). That man then went after another that owed him money, so the one who'd forgiven his debt made him pay it back. Forgive means to release that one of the repayment obligation. As God forgives us, we forgive others who have sinned against us. I've also shown you that God FORGETS what has been forgiven. Erased. Period.

Now, in reading Luke 17:3-4 we can see repentance is required for forgiveness and repentance is up to the one who sinned against you (or we who sin against God). Note how Zacchaeus repented of his wicked ways in response to the love of Jesus in Luke 19:8-9. Jesus didn't call him a "son of Jacob", but a "son of Abraham", as all of us who are saved by faith are also (Rom 11).

I've never said that hell is a "torture chamber". The angels who sinned in the days of Noah are said to be in the deepest abyss of Hades, chained up (2 Pet 2:4). The rich man in the upper level of Hades was in torment, not a prison or torture chamber (Luke 16:23).

Brimstone is only found in the earth. I wrote on this as well. The definition of fire includes lightning. Where we find ash/smoke, lightning, a "lake of fire" and brimstone is deep in the earth - namely, volcanoes. So, whatever "symbolism" you wish to put with this, Sodom and Gomorrah were an example of God's judgment to us. To this day it's yet a desolate area, even as it was in Jesus' day.

So, when Jesus said in Mat 10:15 NLT "I tell you the truth, the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah will be better off than such a town on the judgment day", I thought S & G were already judged? They were wicked, they died and according to you they won't see a LOF, nothing. I guess you believe they've ceased to exist and were annihilated. Yet, Jesus Himself said they still face the judgement day. Are you now saying they will be raised in the second resurrection and get purified through the LOF? You've just contradicted yourself.

Hades is the present hell. The Lake of Fire is the final hell. The angels in Tartaroo (the deepest abyss of Hades), the wicked destroyed in the flood in the days of Noah, the rich man of Luke 16, all the wicked of Sodom & Gomorrah, even Satan who will be bound there for the thousand year reign of Christ and the saints, await the Final Judgement, which has not yet happened (second resurrection). That is "the second death" aka the Lake of Fire (Rev 20:14). If it truly is a second death (annihilation), according to you, it's not death, but purging and purification unto the salvation of all.

Blessings.


Hell N0 19 months ago

God said that the blood sacrifice they will b forgiven. Perhaps passover is connected but i don't remember there being a scriptural connection between the two. And please stop giving definitians out of strongs. That is a modern dictionary funded by church holes who are told that judgment is eternal. Again, sentencing isn't scriptural. So y would i care what strongs says it means.

Oh!! My!! God!! You just made my point with Matt 10:15. Do you recall the scripture that states when S and G r returned to their former estate? It wasn't hell was it? I believe i showed u that one a long time ago. Yes, better off. Thats y preachers say hell is in sections. Nope, the judgment is different for every individual.

Come on, ive heard the volcano tripe. Yeah there is brimstone there. So what, y would that make a difference? It doesn't make the pain any worse. The reason brimstone is in the LOF is because of its purification qualities. Its been used for religious ceremonies for thousands of years. It is also used in modern medicines. Maybe that was a volcano euruption that hit S snd G. Why mention fire and brimstone but no "liquid hot magma" says dr evil? That certainly was judgment. Is their judgment complete? Of course not. They only died once. No second death, no salvation.

Water is a symbol for being born again. A lake has water. I don't recal scripure ever identifying " liquid hot magma" as a lake. So u pulled that volcano hell thing out of ur proverbial butt. If scripture doesn't identify it, it aint scriptural. Volcanos don't have lakes.


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Judah's Daughter 19 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Let's first address S & G returning to their former estate -- you talk of symbolism and not taking things literally, but it appears you choose to take things literally when it fits your agenda. The Geneva Study Bible commentary about this states:

When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former state, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former state, {g} then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former state.

(g) Meaning that it would never come to pass.

Passover is definitely connected to salvation. What did Israel have to do in order to be spared the plague of the angel of death? They had to wipe the blood of lambs on their doorposts! (Ex 12:7, 13) Do you see the correlation now? And, when God's judgement came upon Egypt (the hardening of Pharaoh's heart, giving him over to his own wickedness), Israel was not harmed, that not even a dog would bark at them (Ex 11:7), and to show Israel God's salvation.

Whether you use Strongs or not, go back into the original languages of the Scriptures to rightly divide the Word. Hell has three definitions: Sheol (Hebrew) is the equivalent of Hades (Greek), then there's Tartaroo (the deepest abyss of Hades) and Gehenna (the Lake of Fire). If people don't look up the word "hell" in every context, they will think there's just one hell and that's not true. Same goes for the word "hate" (miseó). We are told not to hate our brother (1 John 4:20) and we are told we must hate our brother (Luke 14:26). Which is true or does applying the correct definition of miseó make both statements true and not contradictory? We are not to despise our brother, but are to love our brother less than Jesus.

A "lake" does not always apply to water, Hell No. It means a pool of liquid. If you look at magma, it's liquid fire, as there are pools of water. Brimstone is only found in the earth, so this tells us where the Lake of Fire is located. Fire and brimstone rained down on S & G - most likely an earthly eruption, spewing lava and magma into the sky that of course, rained back down upon them. Salt is heavily present in the soil of that location, so it's no mystery Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt when she looked back.

Brimstone is inflammable sulfur - it cannot be burned up. If God has made something indestructible, we must know it is possible for fire to engulf something and not destroy it. Our faith is indestructible when we put our trust in Jesus Christ. In fact we are told believers will not be harmed by the second death, which is the Lake of Fire, in Rev 2:11. I am thinking of the type and shadow of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. The second death is never equated with salvation. The burden of proof is on you, Hell No.

Water is a symbol for being born again - I have a hub called "The Gospel in a Glass", which shows the Holy Spirit equated with spiritual Water, for H2O cleanses no one from the inside out. Jesus said to the woman at the well, who just gave Him literal water in John 4:14 NLT "But those who drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, giving them eternal life." John 7:38 NLT "Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare, 'Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.'"

Water trumps fire, when it comes to Spiritual understanding, in this life and the afterlife. Blessings.

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