When is the Rapture?

Introduction: The “Last Trump” Explained and Revealed

In the introduction, he sings “post-tribbers, unbelievers.” This is a psychological ploy. It immediately associates the post-trib doctrine with “unbelievers.” This is, logically, untrue. Next, he issues a directive, “Don’t Frankenstein the Bible. That’s why you’re always perplexed.” In philosophy of logic, this fallacy (untrue statement) is called the personal attack. Basically, he says post-tribbers are wrong because they are taking parts of scripture and assembling them in an abominable way, such as Dr. Frankenstein did to create his monster. However, in the next 50 minutes, Scott proceeds to do exactly what he said should not be done.

He opens with “They are taking two different trumpets in scripture and combining them. Therefore, they’re getting bad timing when the rapture happens.” Next, Scott says Paul reveals the rapture in 1 Corinthians 15:52.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (KJV)

“There’s another trumpet that people take as their 7th trumpet of wrath. And, people count to one, two, three, four, five, six seven. And they say, ‘Seven! Seven! I counted to seven and that’s the last one. That must be the same thing.’ And, it’s really not.” So, again we have Scott simply mocking his opposition in this Christian conversation. So, let us continue and see how Scott explains why this is incorrect.

Personal Opinion

This is the beginning of the same mistake repeated over and over. Scott shares his personal opinion that the trump in 1 Cor 15 and the 7th trumpet blast of the 7 trumpet judgments are not the same. Throughout the video, Scott then repeats that these two are not the same. But, he never supports it with anything more than his initial, personal claim that these are different.

Where in Scripture is the 7th Trumpet Blast?

Something Scott never mentions in the video is the location of the actual 7th trumpet blast. Through most of the video, he says over and over that the “last trump” is absolutely not the 7th trump, when Jesus arrives and the rapture takes place.

However, at one point, Scott acknowledges that this IS the seventh trumpet blast.

It’s the last of those seven, sure. But it’s really not what Paul is talking about.” -Scott ERF

This is perplexing. Paul said the word which is translated as “trump.” How is it not what Paul was talking about? Scott next quotes Revelation 11:15

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Then, he says, “There’s nothing there that has anything to do with a rapture.” And, Scott concludes that this scripture has nothing to do with the rapture. And, since it has nothing relevant to a rapture, then the trump mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:52 is not about a rapture, either. Again, this is merely his personal opinion, delivered with a smile.

The Seven Trumpets

Verse
Trumpet #
Result
8:2
all
7 angels given 7 trumpets
8:6
all
7 angels with 7 trumpets prepare to sound
8:7
1
hail and fire mixed with blood falls on earth; one-third trees and all green grass burned
8:8
2
great mountain burning with fire cast into sea; one-third of waters turn blood red; one-third sea creatures die; one-third ships destroyed
8:10
3
A star called Wormwood falls on a third of the rivers and fountains; many men die from the bitter water
8:12
4
A third of the sun, moon, and stars darkened; they don't shine for a third of the day
8:13
5, 6, and 7
An angel warns that the next three trumpet blasts will be terrible
9:1
5
Star falls from heaven and opens the bottomless pit with a key. Smoke rises out of the pit. Sun and moon are darkened. Locusts come out of the pit. They afflict all the men who are NOT sealed by God.
9:12
5, 6, 7
These three trumpet blasts are called three woes.
9:13
6
Four angels at the Euphrates River are released. 200 million horsemen kill one-third of all men.
10:2 - 10:6
thunder judgments
John was commanded to not write these. They're often overlooked when discussing the judgments.
10:7
7
WHEN the 7th trumpet sounds- The Mystery of God will be finished.
11:14
6 and 7
The second woe (=trumpet 6) is past and the last woe (=7th trumpet) is about to come.
11:15
7
The 7th angel (who holds the 7th trumpet) sounds
The 7 trumpets are plainly described in order. To not see this, a person must first be told (erroneously) that the 7th trumpet blast (aka the 3rd woe) is not here.

Common Trait of Pre-Trib Teachers

This is exactly the kind of bizarre logic I have seen in other pre-trib promoters. This argument is basically like this:

Bob: “The word “trump” in first Corinthians is the same Greek word used in the other six references to the trumpet judgments. The difference only came into existence when it was translated into English.”

Jim: “That’s just ignorant. You’re ignoring the fact that the first six trumpet judgments use the word “trumpet.” But, the one in 15:52 is just “trump.” It’s different.”

Bob: “I just told you, in Greek, the word is the same. They’re only different in English.”

Jim (pauses): “Um, this is not the same, and everyone knows it! You’re ignoring the other facts.”

In the Bob and Jim example, I believe, the incorrect thinking is a little clearer. Jim simply reasserts his incorrect opinion. In experience, I have found that most people will immediately refute when given the truth. But, later, they will be preaching the message correctly, as if they knew it all along. This usually takes about three months. I call this the “good soil test.” To me, it doesn’t matter if they resist initially. When the seed of truth is planted in good soil, it will grow. The fruit appears later.

Scott’s Arguments

An argument is a philosophical term for a statement presented as fact. A debater presents some ideas and combines them in a logical process to develop a conclusion. So far, here are Scott’s arguments:

  1. Counting the trumpets in Revelation one through seven is not a valid way to determine the location of the 7th trumpet.
  2. Post-tribbers are incorrect in combining Rev 11:15 and 1 Cor 15:52.

Here is my response:

  1. Counting the trumpet blasts in order is correct. The seventh follows the sixth. And, in the Greek from which the English was translated, the words trumpet and trump are the same word.
  2. Both Revelation 11:15 and 1 Cor 15:52 are about the rapture.

Scott’s thinking about Revelation 11:15 is faulty. It really is just a corollary of his claim that counting the trumpet blasts in order to seven is wrong. Scott’s rejection of Rev 11:15 being the same rapture as the one in 1 Cor 15:52 is based on his claim post-tribbers can’t count to seven to find the seventh trumpet. Scott is wrong about the counting, wrong about the subject of 1 Cor 15:52, and wrong about the parallel with Rev 11:15.

Scott’s early arguments all stand on his personal opinion that counting the trumpet blast to find the 7th trumpet is incorrect procedure. He never proves that. He just repeats it again and again.

Watch out for This Trap:

Important point: In logical thinking, and in logical debate, making valid statements about irrelevant topics has zero impact on the point of discussion. For example, if someone stated, “Blueberries are actually purple.” And another person retorted with, “Well, oranges are orange,” the statement about oranges would not disprove the statement about blueberries’ color.

Throughout the video, you will find Scott sharing some true things about the Bible. But, almost all of this has nothing relevant to the title: the last Trump explained.

Does the Rapture Happen at the Second Coming

Next, after failing to establish any real statements about the meaning of “at the last Trump,” Scott begins to argue about when the rapture happens. Regarding the “last Trump,” Scott just talked about scriptures. He established no actual points. So far, all he has done is talk and make claims. He has not supported his claims with anything of substance. Let’s see how he supports his claim that the rapture does not happen at the second coming.

Well, the rapture does happen at the last trumpet. But, the second coming of Messiah Jesus does not happen at the last trumpet.” -Scott (ERF)

This is very interesting. At Revelation 11:15 (quoted above), we see that when the 7th angel sounds, all the nations of the world become the kingdoms of Jesus. That really looks like it could mean that Jesus arrives to take command coincident with the 7th sounding. To establish his point, Scott will certainly need to address how this is not the second coming.

Okay, Scott handled this in convincing form. “It’s not,” he said. Once again, this is just his personal opinion.

So, we have another statement of Scott here:

  1. “The rapture does not happen at the last trumpet.” –Scott (ERF)

Refuting a Second Comment

Once again, Scott talked, but established nothing. Yet, he next moves on to a next point. I hope he’s going to pull this all together for us at some point later in the video. In this next part, Scott responds to a comment left on one of his pre-trib teaching videos:

“Oh so you want people to believe that the 7th last trump in the last book of the Bible just before Christ returns is not the LAST TRUMP of 1 Cor. You explain this away with feast days…. Sorry but last means LAST – One does not need to take English in college to know what last means… “ –LuckyBob2010

Scott grabs something in the first sentence. “So, he’s taking last trumpet meaning 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and last book… he’s using the word last a couple of times to drive that home.” Here, Scott implies LuckyBob2010 is mixing scriptures incorrectly. This is something Scott claimed early in the video. However, Scott still has not established that Rev 11:15 is not about the rapture. So far, Scott only has his own claim, which is just his opinion.

Once again, Scott’s rebuttal stands only on Scott’s personal opinion that counting the trumpet blasts as they are mentioned, one to seven, is an illegal action in understanding. He is still wrong on this.

Next, Scott returned to the personal attack. At this point, Scott has only delivered his opinions. However, without sound logic to establish his position, Scott called LuckyBob2010, and other post-tribbers, “ignorant.” Scott then stated that “ignorance” just means “ignoring.”

Now, here we have a point which both pre- and post- tribbers can agree: ignorance does not mean “ignoring.” Merriam-Webster.com defines ignorance as “the state or fact of being ignorant: lack of knowledge, education, or awareness.” So, Scott is 100% incorrect on this claim. But, this leads me to an observation I made long ago about videos like Scott’s which debate in favor of the pre-trib doctrine.

Pre-trib defenders just talk. They mix in scriptures. They give their opinions. And, they frame it all with some confidence and with the use of personal attack on those who disagree with them. They talk for a very long time, and jump from talking point to talking point. It is nearly impossible to follow their train of thought without pen, paper, and copious notes. They never logically establish anything. Believing them amounts to personal choice, not conviction. –Man from Modesto

Bold and Confidant does not Mean Correct

This silly error about ignorant meaning ignore hints at a personal quality of Scott- he is not careful with his words. He has a boldness to present what is wrong. And, he delivers it like he knows exactly what he’s talking about. What do you think? Do you think ignorant means ignore? Is that because they sound the same?

There is a Rapture

At 4:30, Scott said, “We’re going to get into the facts here.” Great! We need some facts in order to actually have a dignified debate. Scott talked about people claiming there is no rapture, “because it’s not in the Bible.” He talked about previous versions of the scriptures not in English. In all this, I agree. The event popularly called “the rapture” is in the Bible. In the modern version, it is referenced as “we shall all be changed” (1 Cor 15:51) “in a moment in the blink of an eye.” (1 Cor 15:52) But, we do all go up. “After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” (1 Thessalonians 4:17) People will be able to see us rising up and meeting Jesus in the clouds. Yes, there is an event in which we all go up into the clouds and meet Jesus.

So, on this, Scott is correct. But, what impact does this have on when the rapture occurs? Some people claim there is no rapture at all. Okay, got it. But, does that support Scott’s claim there is a pre-trib rapture? Honestly, at this point (5:38 of the video), Scott has not made any real claims at all. Scott has only attacked other people’s post-trib beliefs. So far, he has only debased the idea of counting the trumpet blasts in order. He has made no claims of his own. He has not “explained” or “revealed” anything.

Ironically, in this discussion, Scott used the fact of translations affecting word choice, and some resulting confusion, to speak against the no rapture crowd. This is exactly the mistake Scott made in the beginning, and the thing Scott is ignoring regarding the word “Trump” in 1 Cor 15:52. Scott says the “trump” in 1 Cor 15 is not the same as the previous trumps and should not be counted after the preceding mentions to conclude it is the 7th.

Thayer's dictionary for Greek 4536. Trumpet and Trump.
Thayer's dictionary for Greek 4536. Trumpet and Trump. | Source

Greek 4536, “Trumpet”

At this point, I have listed several examples showing that Scott is just talking. He gives his opinions. He makes some truthful statements. But, none of it has any bearing on his claim that believers are raptured before the Tribulation period of Revelation.

So, let us look at the word “Trump” in 1 Cor 15:52. Here are some examples of when this word, Strong’s Greek 4536, is used. This is absolutely convincing that “Trump” would have been better translated as “trumpet.” It is exactly the same word in Greek.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, G4536 and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Mat 24:31)

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: G4536 for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Cor 15:52)

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump G4536 of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (1 Thes 4:16)

And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets. (Rev 8:2)

And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets G4536 prepared themselves to sound. (Rev 8:6)

And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet G4536 of the three angels, which are yet to sound! (Rev 8:13)

Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, G4536 Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. (Rev 9:14)

All these scriptures use the exact same Greek word:

σάλπιγξ

Whether translated as “Trump” or “trumpet” in English, it is the same in Greek. Scott attributes this error to people who deny any kind of rapture at all based on words in the English translation. This is the exact error Scott himself made when he claimed “trump” in 1 Cor 15:52 has a different meaning than the previous six trumpet blasts. Truth is, it is the same word in all the scriptures posted above. And, it is legitimate to count them together.

Notice especially Matthew 24:31, quoted above. It specifically states the coincident events of a trumpet blast and the rapture. Angels go out, sound a trumpet, and the elect are gathered. I have seen other pre-tribbers actually disqualify these words of Jesus. Some even claim this is a bogus scripture. They go to all lengths to hold the pre-trib position and deny the words immediately in front of their faces. But, let’s return to what Scott is saying.

For the next five minutes, Scott talks at length about rapture scriptures. This has no bearing on the title of the video, “The “Last Trump” Explained.” He talks a lot and shares some head knowledge. But, none of this has anything to do with the meaning of “trump” in 1 Cor 15:52. He detailed the meaning of the word “rapere” in Latin. But, why didn’t he do the same for the word “trump”?

At 11:40, Scott began to talk about the study of prophecy and the feast days. Here, an illicit part of Scott’s failure to grasp scripture is made manifest. He is studying. I’m still waiting to hear from him anything about revelation from the Holy Spirit.

You can’t know Jesus in your head. You can only know about Jesus in your head. We must know Jesus in our hearts. (And I sincerely hope you do already, or soon will!)

Basically, the conversation at 12 minutes of the video is a doctrine called “historical context.” This kind of teaching is popular in churches which require their leaders to go to seminary. They want someone approved by men. Men who own and operate seminaries approve these pastors.

A real man of God is sealed by the King of Kings. Man’s testimony of him is irrelevant. It is the Holy Spirit’s testimony which vets a Christian. If you lay hands on someone, and they are healed, you have faith. If you receive a prophecy, and it comes to pass as you proclaimed in obedience, the Holy Spirit testifies of you.

Displays of head knowledge and conversations about historical context rarely convince. Personally, everything I know about scripture, the Holy Spirit taught me. If I heard it, even second hand, from another man, I don’t consider myself to know it. Our teacher is the Holy Spirit, and I have no to other teacher.

So, Scott spoke 2 minutes about the word trump. Then about whether there is a rapture or not. Now, he is talking about feast days and prophecy.

Scott claims Mount Sinai is burned on top. He then shows (17:22) an image of a peak cast in shadows. Do an image search for Mount Sinai. You will find many photos, as I did, which show the top in full daylight. Nothing is black there. Scott read Exodus 19:17-19

(19:18) And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

Notice the simple statements of scripture:

  1. Jehovah descended in fire.
  2. Smoke ascended.
  3. Mount Sinai quaked.

There is no mention of the mountain being burned. We don’t know if Scott received this teaching from another man, or if he found the image himself and independently produced this wrong conclusion. However, we do see here another logical error. Scott is adding to the scripture.

At 18:04, an aerial of the mountain, we see, in adjacent areas, other sectors with the same coloring as the top of Mt. Sinai. Did God burn there, too? There are obvious counter-indicators to the claims Scott makes. How is he not noticing these things?

“That happened on the Feast of Trumpets.” This feast day was established in Leviticus 23:24. That is long after the events of Exodus. This is another statement not supported. And, it does not make sense.

From 18 to 19 minutes, Scott starts and stops with some talking points about Passover and the feast of unleavened bread. This kind of speaking reminds me of people who learned something, and who learned how to talk about it. But, they don’t really own this knowledge. They are just repeating what someone else told them. And, the relevance to the meaning of the last Trump is still not being addressed.

Scott claims Pentecost is currently being fulfilled. “We are currently in the age of Pentecost, the church age.” Where is that in scripture? There may be more events that happen on Pentecost. I expect there will be. But, I don’t know that for a fact. However, I am certain of this: Pentecost happened when the Holy Spirit descended on the believers who waited in the upper room, as Jesus commanded. I’ve never heard of Scott before. Because he likes head knowledge, and because of this strange teaching he just glossed over, I suspect he denies the Holy Spirit and rejects the gifts such as prophetic dreams and speaking in tongues.

At 20:50, Scott brings together his feasts claim and where he’s going with his pre-trib rapture timing argument. Basically, he is claiming this:

  1. There was a trumpet when God descended on Mt. Sinai.
  2. There is a trumpet at the rapture (But not the one in 1 Cor 15:52).

He has not yet stated it. But, I’m expecting him to go make this claim:

  1. The rapture happens on the feast of trumpets.

However, Scott has not established that the trumpet in Exodus 19 happened on the Feast of Trumpets. Trumpets are blown when a king arrives. God is the Great King. It is suiting for a trumpet to precede the arrival of Almighty God. There is nothing to concretely establish that Moses was on Mt. Sinai on the date which later became the Feast of Trumpets of each year. At least, Scott has not provided it to us here.

Source

Notice especially Matthew 24:31, quoted above. It specifically states the coincident events of a trumpet blast and the rapture. Angels go out, sound a trumpet, and the elect are gathered. I have seen other pre-tribbers actually disqualify these words of Jesus. Some even claim this is a bogus scripture. They go to all lengths to hold the pre-trib position and deny the words immediately in front of their faces. But, let’s return to what Scott is saying.

For the next five minutes, Scott talks at length about rapture scriptures. This has no bearing on the title of the video, “The “Last Trump” Explained.” He talks a lot and shares some head knowledge. But, none of this has anything to do with the meaning of “trump” in 1 Cor 15:52. He detailed the meaning of the word “rapere” in Latin. But, why didn’t he do the same for the word “trump”?

At 11:40, Scott began to talk about the study of prophecy and the feast days. Here, an illicit part of Scott’s failure to grasp scripture is made manifest. He is studying the book to learn what he knows. I’m still waiting to hear from him anything about revelation from the Holy Spirit.

You can’t know Jesus in your head. You can only know about Jesus in your head. We must know Jesus in our hearts. (And I sincerely hope you do already, or soon will!)

Basically, the conversation at 12 minutes of the video is a doctrine called “historical context.” This kind of teaching is popular in churches which require their leaders to go to seminary. They want someone approved by men. Men who own and operate seminaries approve these pastors. The result in their flock is obvious.

A real man of God is sealed by the King of Kings. Man’s testimony of him is irrelevant. It is the Holy Spirit’s testimony which vets a Christian. If you lay hands on someone, and they are healed, you have faith. If you receive a prophecy, and it comes to pass as you proclaimed in obedience, the Holy Spirit testifies of you.

Displays of head knowledge and conversations about historical context rarely convince. Personally, everything I know about scripture, the Holy Spirit taught me. If I heard it, even second hand, from another man, I don’t consider myself to know it. Our teacher is the Holy Spirit, and I have no to other teacher.

Review

So, Scott spoke 2 minutes about the word trump. Then about whether there is a rapture or not. Now, he is talking about feast days and prophecy.

Scott claims Mount Sinai is burned on top. He then shows (17:22) an image of a peak cast in shadows. Do an image search for Mount Sinai. You will find many photos, as I did, which show the top in full daylight. Nothing is black there. Scott then reads Exodus 19:17-19 in his video:

(19:18) And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

Notice the simple statements of scripture:

  1. Jehovah descended in fire.
  2. Smoke ascended.
  3. Mount Sinai quaked.

There is no mention of the mountain being burned. We don’t know if Scott received this teaching from another man, or if he found the image himself and independently produced this wrong conclusion. However, we do see here another logical error. Scott is adding to the scripture.

At 18:04, an aerial of the mountain, we see, in adjacent areas, other sectors with the same coloring as the top of Mt. Sinai. Did God burn there, too? There are obvious counter-indicators to the claims Scott makes. How is he not noticing these things?

“That happened on the Feast of Trumpets.” This feast day was established in Leviticus 23:24. That is long after the events of Exodus. This is another statement not supported. And, it does not make sense.

From 18 to 19 minutes, Scott starts and stops with some talking points about Passover and the feast of unleavened bread. This kind of speaking reminds me of people who learned something, and who learned how to talk about it. But, they don’t really own this knowledge. They are just repeating what someone else told them. And, the relevance to the meaning of the last Trump is still not being addressed.

Scott claims Pentecost is currently being fulfilled. “We are currently in the age of Pentecost, the church age.” Where is that in scripture? There may be more events that happen on Pentecost. I expect there will be. But, I don’t know that for a fact. However, I am certain of this: Pentecost happened when the Holy Spirit descended on the believers who waited in the upper room, as Jesus commanded. I’ve never heard of Scott before. Because he likes head knowledge, and because of this strange teaching he just glossed over, I suspect he denies the Holy Spirit and rejects the gifts such as prophetic dreams and speaking in tongues.

At 20:50, Scott brings together his feasts claim and where he’s going with his pre-trib rapture timing argument. Basically, he is claiming this:

  1. There was a trumpet when God descended on Mt. Sinai.
  2. There is a trumpet at the rapture (But not the one in 1 Cor 15:52).

He has not yet stated it. But, I’m expecting him to go make this claim:

  1. The rapture happens on the feast of trumpets.

However, Scott has not established that the trumpet in Exodus 19 happened on the Feast of Trumpets. Trumpets are blown when a king arrives. God is the Great King. It is suiting for a trumpet to precede the arrival of Almighty God. There is nothing to concretely establish that Moses was on Mt. Sinai on the date which later became the Feast of Trumpets of each year. At least, Scott has not provided it to us here.

Tourists standing on top of Mt. Sinai. It doesn't look burned.
Tourists standing on top of Mt. Sinai. It doesn't look burned. | Source

Speaking Off Topic

By 29 minutes of the video, Scott has talked a lot about a trumpet blast and a going up happening in conjunction. All of this is posited by Scott as part of his claim that the rapture happens before the Tribulation.

However, all that is really going on is this: We all agree that the rapture happens with a trumpet blast! We know that! Stop telling us what we already know. We agree there is a trumpet blast, a last trumpet blast, and the rapture happens. Scott is saying some interesting things. A lot of it, I agree with.

However, the topic is the timing of this trumpet blast. Is it before the Tribulation, or after? Sixty percent of the way through a 50 minute video, and Scott still has not made any claims about when the rapture happens. He has only attacked (fallaciously) others’ comments and delivered some mostly alright teachings about language, history, and God’s use of prophetic events.

At 29:41, Scott makes another thinking man’s error. Here are his claims:

  1. Jews have a phrase for the moment between twilight and night. It is “the twinkling of an eye.”
  2. This is the exact phrase used in 1 Cor 15:52 (implied.)
  3. Therefore, the rapture happens at twilight.

This is another nonsensical conclusion. First, let us look at premise 1. Who says the Jews have a phrase like this to refer to twilight? Search on the Internet, and you’ll find only a few people claiming this. None are Jews. The word twinkling is Strong’s Greek 4493. It happens exactly one time in scripture. So, if this is true, the Bible has not recorded it.

If you use the “line upon line” doctrine to interpret scripture, This argument about the rapture happening at twilight is unproven. There is no other scripture to define the term. Scott only uses a claim that Jews had this phrase at the time Paul wrote it.

Pre-Tribbers: What do they Know?

Lots of pre-tribber bungle scripture. Why?
Lots of pre-tribber bungle scripture. Why?

Common Sense

Now, let’s just use a little common sense. Does the rapture happen at twilight?

I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Luke 17:34-36)

Here, we see three groups. Plainly, the first group is taken during the night. Not twilight, night. The other groups are working. Most people do not work in the field at night. Most people do not work grinding flower during the night, either.

How could the rapture happen during both night and day? Easy. People all over the world will be raptured at the same time. Our brethren in China, Africa, Saudi Arabia, Australia, and from every tribe and nation all over the globe will be taken up. Some will be in bed. On the other side of the world, some will be working.

There is a lack of plain old common sense to post a video teaching 45 thousand people that the rapture happens at twilight.

When does the Rapture Happen?

Next, let’s look at something else: People are working both in the field and are grinding. These are both things associated with bringing in the harvest. Since Jesus is the first fruits, and we are the wheat in scriptural analogy, another idea bears consideration. Perhaps the feast day signifying the rapture is the Feast of First Fruits. However, Passover and the Feast of Trumpets also have decent supporting arguments. In the end, there are teachings supporting a myriad of different beliefs about when the rapture happens. However, Jesus plainly told us we can know the season, but cannot know the day.

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. (Mark 13:32)

Scripture says Scott doesn’t know, “that hour knoweth no man.” But, Scott believes it is the “at the end of the two day period” of Rosh Hoshannah, at twilight. Who do you believe?

Do you think Scott is a spot-on teacher? Do you trust your soul to him enough to not prepare to go through the Tribulation? For me, I trust no man like that. I trust the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and our Father that much- only them.

From 31 minutes, Scott again shares information. This time it is about the trumpet blasts delivered on the Feast of Trumpets. I wonder what the origin of those blasts is. I’ve never seen it in scripture.

At 32:15, Scott completes his story of the traditional shofar blowing.

  1. The last trump of the 100 trumpet blasts of the Feast of Trumpets is a long, increasing horn blast.
  2. When Jehovah descended on Mt. Sinai, there was a long, increasing horn blast.
  3. Therefore, 1 Cor 15:52 has nothing to do with the rapture.

What? Read 1 and 2. Scott has been talking about these now for 25 minutes. But, does this make any sense at all? A logic student could easily shred this argument.

Here is what Scott’s argument lacks:

  1. The 100 trumpet blasts is not in scripture.
  2. What does the Feast of Trumpets have to do with this? Scott talked about it, yes. A lot of interesting factoids, yes. But, how is that related to 1 Cor 15:52?
  3. If we assume God descending on Mt Sinai on the third day is a symbol of the Second Coming (I believe it is, but Scott certainly did not prove this), Scott failed to establish this is the basis for the Feast of Trumpets, or that it even happened on the same day. In fact, Passover is the 14th day of the 1st month. The Jews left Egypt after Passover. They arrived three months later to Mt. Sinai (Ex 19:1). Feast of Trumpets happens on 1st day of 7th months.
  4. Scott states God descended on the Feast of Trumpets. This is unproven. Also, the Feast of Trumpets was established later.

You can argue the lacking points. It won’t matter. In the end, if I agree that the Mt. Sinai events correlate with the Second Coming (I do.) and that the two trumpet blasts, the traditional hundredth blast and the blast in Exodus 19:19 are the same (maybe), there still lacks an important thing.

That has nothing to do with 1 Cor 15:52. Why is that blast a different blast? Scott has said zero about this. He just makes a wild claim, suddenly, at 32:20 of the video.

At 36:35, Scott claims that Rev 4:1 is a rapture verse. It is not. This is about John being in the spirit and seeing a vision. John’s presence in the spirit is in no way a prophetic occurrence revealing information about the Second Coming. Notice that it completely lacks the criteria Scott said must be in a rapture verse. Scott said (15:55 of video) there must be minimum two from this list:

  1. God descending
  2. Sound of a trumpet
  3. People going up
  4. Something happening in the blink of an eye; immediately

It appears John went up. However, no other item from Scott’s list. The voice like a trumpet is not a long, rising trumpet blast as Scott references. It is unclear whether or not he really went there. He saw a vision. God did not come down. Neither did Jesus. Instead, an angel was sent. This is explained in plain language in Revelation 1:1.

At 38 minutes, Scott is back to speculating. There is a door mentioned. So, that must be the Pearly Gates, Scott says. I have always thought that door was Jesus. Nothing comes through except via Jesus. That is how the angel arrived to meet John and show him the vision.

At 40 minutes, Scott says, “The elders of the church which are representatives of us. They are there. We are there.”

Again, Scott is making assumptions. We are not told who the 24 elders are. We are not told they are representatives of us. We are not told we are there. Scott invents all that.

Now, assume the 24 elders are, in fact, humans who have already been judged worthy by the blood of Jesus. So what? There is no time in Heaven. In Heaven, it has all happened already. Only the current version of the world has time. In Heaven there is one day and no time.

If they’re wearing white linen, that means they have their new bodies already.” No, it doesn’t mean that. Elijah saw the priest of the temple receive all new white clothing in Heaven. However, he had not gone through Judgment. And, he did not have a new body. Also, who is to say that all white clothing is not standard issue in Heaven- for angels.

At 40:20, Scott notes that spirits don’t wear clothes. He uses this to support them being former men. Someone needs to explain that to me. If they were men before, and are men now, what does that have to do with anything? They are in their spirit bodies, the state of being in Heaven. Angels are also known to wear clothes. When Jesus appeared to the men walking to Ameus, he wore clothing.

Clothing or no clothing, both heavenly beings and men on earth wear clothes.

As in many other places, when it comes time to actually address pre-trib rapture, Scott (like other pre-tribbers) just speaks gibberish and nonsense. “Spirits don’t wear clothes.” He says it like it means something. It doesn’t.

Next, Scott quotes Rev 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

But, Scott conveniently Frankenstein’s Rev 5 by ignoring verse 5:9

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Whoa, right? They shall reign on earth? These are people who have already been Judged, Scott says. Then, how is it they shall return to reign on earth? Where is that in scripture?

Is Revelation Chronological?

What if it is?

Scott says the 24 elders are in Heaven, and so Judgment Day already transpired. But, in Revelation 20, we see God making Judgment.

What if it Isn't?

If Revelation is chronological, Scott is mistaken about the elders having already been judged. If Revelation is not chronological, then Scott loses again. John could easily be reporting events out of order, or repeating them as he saw them, and they weren’t in order when he saw them.

Either way, with the Judgment Day being in the penultimate chapter, something is inconclusive about people being already judged in Rev chapter 4.

Who are the 24 Elders?

No Mention of the Believers in Rev 4

Scott makes assumptions about who the 24 elders are. He also assumes there are more than the 24 elders present. He assumes these are human elders, not angelic elders. Who knows? For all I know, they could be an entirely different class of being. There are several interesting beings described in that scene. But, not once is a redeemed human specifically mentioned. This is all assumed by Scott, or by whoever taught him.

Scott Contradicts Himself

At 43:15, Scott says “it’s all chronological.” So, Scott actually agrees the Judgment has not happened until Revelation chapter 20. Judgment Day happens in Revelation chapter 20. So, the 24 elders in chapter 4 cannot be already Judged, not by Scott’s reasoning.

These kinds of mistakes in thinking happen when bias exists. Scott believes the pre-trib position because someone told him that is the case. When he went to scripture, he went to justify himself, not to find the truth. Likewise, those who want to believe the pre-trib, or who just have not researched it, will easily believe these arguments. They will not critically analyze the statements to see if they are logically or reasonably valid.

A Circular Argument

There are no rapture verses because it’s a mid-trib situation. That actually makes no sense. And, what does it have to do with when the rapture happens? This is a circular argument. He starts with the notion that the rapture happens before the Tribulation. Then, he says, “Since this event happens mid-Tribulation, it can’t be about the rapture because that already happened.” But, Scott has only made the claim the rapture happens first. He has not proved anything to the viewer.

Here is an example of a circular argument. This is designed to simplify understanding of Scott’s erroneous circular argument.

Jim learns he has a half-brother. He does some research and decides the half-brother is his old football teammate, Bob. The team has a reunion, and Jim goes there. Jim hires a lawyer to attain the actual truth, documented on birth records. The lawyer is told to deliver the papers to the reunion.

The lawyer arrives and Jim opens and envelope and looks at the birth records. His real half-brother is William, the all-star quarterback.

But, Jim rejects the truth in front of him. Jim says, “William cannot be my brother because Bob is.”

Just like Jim cannot reject the truth using his incorrect belief about Bob, Scott cannot reject the truth of the rapture happening at the 7th and last trumpet because of his incorrect belief about a pre-trib rapture.

Another Contradiction

At 43:40, Scott makes another contradiction. Quoting Revelation 11:15, Scott says an angel is declaring that Jesus is coming. However, Matthew 24:31 says:

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So, Jesus says the elect are gathered when He returns. Scott and other pre-tribbers must ignore Matthew 24:31. Scott contradicts scripture here. He says people are already gathered and in Heaven. He says Revelation is chronological. But, He then says a warning of Jesus’ coming is issued at Revelation 11:15.

That does not make sense.

At 43:56, Scott mentions that Satan is cast out of Heaven. But, on Judgment Day, Satan and his angel-followers (devils) are all cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity. Again, this tells the reasonable person of average intelligence that Judgment Day has not yet happened if Satan is not in the Lake of Fire.

These facts are staring Scott in the face. But, he is ignoring them.

Blatant False Teaching

At 44:47, Scott makes the following claim:

“From the time you get out of chapter 5, where you see the church in Heaven. The church is not mentioned between 6 through the end of 18.”

And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Rev 6:11)

Who are the fellowservants yet to be killed? If all the believers are in Heaven, as Scott claims, why are they being killed in Heaven?

Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. (Rev 7:3)

Who is being sealed by the angels here? It’s “the servants of God.” Do you think these are believers? Ignore Scott. Just use rational thought and pray to the Holy Spirit to show you the truth in these matters.

And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. (Rev 11:13)

This is hard to ignore “the remnant” are still on earth. These are people who “gave glory to the God of Heaven.” Sound like believers to you? Does to me.

Scott's Closing

Throughout this painful video, I was hoping Scott would summarize his points and bring everything together at the end. It didn’t happen. Instead, he ended with another circular fallacy.

Because the rapture happens at chapter 4, he says, “It doesn’t go.” Honestly, watch from 46:20 until 47:20. He jumps around and doesn’t really make a point. He only has more dogma.

At 47:28, Scott says, “So, that is the chronological outline.” However, he never once gave his own chronological outline. He never once put any series of events into any order. When he makes the statement, he has just finished more talking without saying anything of substance.

All Scott’s 50 minutes of talking all amount to this:

The rapture happens in Chapter 4 of Revelation because he says so.

© 2013 Man from Modesto

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