The Argument for Attending Church is Unbiblical

There is a place of bondage where men in the name of "Christianity" claim to have the authority of Jesus Christ. These men give themselves special religious titles so that the people will subject themselves to their rule over them. These men are not to be questioned as their authority comes directly from “God;” disobedience to their ways means rebellion against Him.

This place of bondage is called church and is an entity that is nowhere to be found in Scripture. Of course, the ecclesiastical word church is found in its pages, but it was deceptively put there by the King James’ translators to control the masses within an institution.

Jesus did not say He was going to build His church (Matthew 16:18), but He said He would build His ekklesia, which in its nature and definition means something completely different than church.

Please refer to these following two links as a precursor as the following text may not make sense.

Ekklesia under the Microscope

Ekklesia, or Church?

The Church Goer

Church is a religious institution filled with reprobates and hypocrites. Now this may sound radical, but the ekklesia are comprised exclusively of God’s elect. Since churches of men contain everybody, it does not meet the description and requirements for what Jesus Christ said He is building.

Churches are filled with men who love to wield their authority over others. This is religious bondage. All you have to do is walk in through the doors of any church building to see the manifestation of this.

A true believer is set free in Jesus Christ from sin, death and religious men. They are called out of the religious man-made systems and traditions of the world. It is their duty to reject anything that is unsupported in God’s Word.


To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. – Isaiah 8:20


The delusional religious indoctrinated church goer will always try to coerce and persuade the ekklesia to attend a church. It is because they have spent most of their religious lives being pressured and indoctrinated to attend a particular brand of "Churchianity." Unfortunately, they have no clue that these ideas are not a requirement of the ekklesia, nor is there any teaching found in Scripture that supports their presumptions. They have been taught to believe from their pastor that it is there duty before God and it is a necessity to be at a church service run by professional hirelings. The question needs to be asked,

"Where are the declared sanctioned meetings of the ekklesia found in the New Testament?"

The religious church minds are entrenched with delusions that the system of church is found in the Bible. It is NOT! Church is a counterfeit word and a counterfeit system that has no resemblance to the ekklesia.


Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. – Colossians 2:16


The Presumption

The clergy within the churches of men love to fix meetings on certain days and bind the people to them. If they do not attend, they are left with a guilty conscience.

The religious hirelings deem it a sin in failing to attend church meetings, but again, their religious system is nowhere to be found in Scripture. The New Testament ekklesia never met in buildings with man-made names upon them. There are absolutely no churches found in the New Testament that pertained to the Ekklesia that had self-appointed professional hireling officials running within the framework of a corporate denominational institution.

The nature of those in the Body of Christ are engaged in the instructions of Jesus Christ without the mandatory stated duty of gathering for religious activities and traditions within a hierarchical structure because it is not found in Scripture.

The indoctrinated are under the false presumption that this following verse applies to all those who do not conform to the institutionalized church and their denominational templates.


Not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. - Hebrews 10:25


It should be made clear that this verse has absolutely nothing to do with organized religion. Organized religion in that day was headed by the Pharisees and Jesus clearly rebuked their way of doing things. Church is no different today as most people desire to “worship” in temples built with man’s hands. Jesus did not come to set up organized religions, but instructed His ekklesia to reject the systems of men.


Church:The Gates of Hades have Prevailed

Many fail to grasp the enormity of Satan’s deception of counterfeit Christianity. There are millions who sincerely believe they are following Jesus Christ of the Bible, but in fact are following another “Jesus” and another “gospel.” Just like counterfeit money, many assume that it is the real thing.


And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. – 2 Corinthians 4:3-4


The religious system of church loves quoting Scripture. Even Satan is not against this approach as he quoted verses to Jesus too. Jesus knew that Satan incorrectly twisted Scripture to coerce Him.

There are many religious charismatic church leaders who are possessed by Satan who are seducing the masses into following them instead of Jesus Christ. Jesus condemned the religious leaders of His day, and will condemn and bring destruction to those who take part in the same religious hypocrisy today. The ecclesiastical hirelings have a pretense of being godly, but have the character of Satan.

The indoctrinated minions and supporters of Satan’s ministers look and sound like a Christian because they use Scripture, but their religious terms and jargon mean something completely different. The ekklesia understand that it is up to each believer to study God’s Word for themselves and to prove and practice what Jesus and the Apostles taught in its proper context.

The church system is idolatrous and in no way resembles the early ekklesia of the New Testament. Church resembles the syncretism of pagan practices and traditions with Scripture added.


Jesus said the gates of Hades would not prevail against the ekklesia; therefore, we can conclude that the assimilation of reprobate minds and their traditions in a system called church is not of God.


And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, a small rock and upon the large rock I will build my congregation {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones}, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against her. - Matthew 16:18


The modern church has its origins and roots in paganism. This is counterfeit Christianity, but it is deceptively called “Christianity.” The term Christianity has been hijacked into the false concept of “Churchianity.” It is a system that cuts the masses from the one true God into a double-minded religious world of man worship.


For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways. – James 1:7-8


Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. – James 4:7-8


Counterfeit Christianity

Most Biblical historians concur that the original Christianity of Jesus Christ and the Apostles is something completely different than the entity of church today.


“Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. The Greek mind, dying, came to a transmigrated life in theology and liturgy of the Church” (The Story of Civilization, Vol. 5, Durant, pp. 595).

“Many Christians did not make a clear distinction between this sun-cult and their own. They referred to Christ ‘driving his chariot across the sky,’ they held their services on Sunday, knelt towards the East and had their nativity-feast on 25 December, the birthday of the sun at the winter solstice.” (A History of Christianity, pp. 67).


The modern church is saturated in religious counterfeit concepts in a paganized system. This double-minded system breeds confused professors of Jesus Christ within the conflict and confines of church denominations.


Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain – Jeremiah 10:2-3


Unfortunately, there are many who choose not to study the Bible, but blindly believe what they are told from the pulpit. They have failed to prove all things; therefore, they will be caught up in their delusional religion that goes after the latest fads, or whatever tickles the ears.


“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. – Matthew 7:13-14


Counterfeit Christianity called church (Churchianity) is influenced by pagan concepts and traditions of man. There is a revival of ancient Babylon that is ramping up in these last days and many are blinded into believing that it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately, many do not want to accept that their religious traditions are an abomination to God.

It should be clear that genuine Christianity resembles the ekklesia that Jesus Christ built and the gates of Hades have NOT prevailed against it.

Church is a front that appears to have real Christians within their walls because it sounds like they speak the same language, but their sins are masqueraded in the Babylonian system that they endorse. Their condition of confusion and double-mindedness exposes their vain works of putting their trust in men and their denominations instead of Jesus Christ.


So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. - Matthew 23:28


Many have been fooling themselves and others. Don’t be fooled. Don't be duped. God’s wrath is coming for the pretenders. Change your minds and receive the true Jesus Christ before it is too late.


Are you part of the imitation called church built with man’s hands, or the ekklesia built by Jesus Christ?

  • I go to a church built by and named by men.
  • I am part of the ekklesia built by Jesus Christ.
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Comments Appreciated 86 comments

Pamela Bush profile image

Pamela Bush 2 years ago from Alberta, Canada

A member of the Ekklesia am I for certain. Many of the churches are led by an administrative body of worldly individuals whose sole focus is to twist the doctrines to lead man astray. They twist the Holy Scriptures to their own destruction, but in the process cause many who desire to hear sweet swelling words to remain unsaved. Our Lord was very clear in His Word when He said by the mouth of His prophets "read the Holy Scriptures day after day and do His commandments for the heart of man must be changed. For in Heaven there can enter nothing unclean." The Holy Ghost has been sent to indwell man and He shall teach the obedient servant in all righteousness. Again Jesus said "many will come in my name saying I am christ - believe them not." People, ye called - fear God and do His commandments for this is the whole duty of man. Be not a hearer of the Word only, but a doer so that you might find faith!


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Pamela,

When we read the Scriptures for ourselves, it dispels the sweet swelling words that come from the pulpits of men. The indoctrinated are good at using twisted Scripture verses that are spoon fed to them from the church hireling. The church system fails once people learn to study God's Word with the guidance of the Holy Spirit for themselves. The professional "pastors" do not like it when they lose control of their grip over the people when they come to realize that Jesus Christ is the Head, not them.

I am pleased to meet another sister in Jesus Christ who recognizes the deception. People need to wake up and get out of these harlots of Babylon while they still can.

Thank-you for sharing your thoughts, it is appreciated.


liberty 2 years ago

An encouraging reminder.

What do you make of overseers and elders in Scripture?


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

PandN- Again you have written a great article. Recently I have research further regarding the Greek word ekklesia (ecclesia) which you have explained well to mean called out. Further it also means assembly or congregations. I believe where the problem lies is how we (man) have taken the words assembly and congregation from ekklesia and gaveTHEM the meaning as church. I believe this is where the mistranslation came from in the Old English translaters. Research indicates that the words ekklesia (ecclesia) has existed since or about 500 B.C.E., long before the birth of Jesus.

Therefore,the word church as it is known today could not have existed in or around 500 B.C.E. And surely there where no christians during that time. What is interesting is in the Old Testiment the words assembly and congregation is used when members of the tribes of Israel gathered ,but church is never used in the Old Testament by those who translated the Bible to English. The Hebrew Text use different words altogather for both assembly and congregation. The point here is that the word church for the purpose of the bible was not used until it's translation from Greek/Latin to Old English of the New Testament only. Still, the words assembly and congregation then (in the Old Testament) and now, continued to have the same meaning, but ekklesia and church never has. It should also be understood that the word ekklesia has been used in a number of Greek manuscriptes outside the bible.

I believe the words assembly and congregation is what has causes much of the confusion between what is the true ekklesia and the false churches we see today. The assembly or congregation of the ekklesia and the assembly and congregation of churches are two completely different things.

One other point should be mentioned, the words ekklesia is NOT a "religious" word and never has been. But you can't said that for the word church.

Great Hub and God bless.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Liberty,

There is a striking difference between what are called elders and overseers in the church, and those among the ekklesia.

Among the ekklesia, elders and overseers are not officials or rulers. It is not an official position, but a responsibility. They are not appointed through a ritual, rite, or ceremony. They are not managers of a corporation.

Men in churches create elders and overseers through rites, rituals, ordinations and seminary schools bred to rule over and control people, but the ekklesia belong to Jesus Christ, not men, who have been redeemed and purchased with His blood, not the monetary.

An elder or overseer is a trustworthy example of encouraging others to follow Jesus Christ alone. In contrast , the ordained men in churches are obstacles that get in the way of people seeing Jesus.

A true elder and oversee is not part of a hierarchical structure, but operates in the context of family and brotherly love. When Jesus "appointed" His twelve disciples, He did not give them a fancy title in front of their name, or hold a public ceremony in their honor. They did not require a fancy piece of paper from a seminary school.

Jesus said He did not come to be served, but to serve.

Among the early ekklesia the Apostles recognized an elder or overseer as someone who was mature, older and wiser, just like someone in a family who would have these virtues.

The churches of men twist Scripture verses to mean organized religion rather than a family in a community/ locality with brothers and sisters.


flpalermo profile image

flpalermo 2 years ago

Hello P&N: Great article again. Isn't the commission of the "Ekklesia" to preach the good news of the Kingdom [government] of God and to "feed" the sheep, [the Ekklesia] as ordained by Jesus, to all the nations around the world? How are we doing that today? How is the Ekklesia doing that today? Is there anyone doing it? I know "traditional Christianity" is NOT doing it today with their Pagan doctrines. Best regards and good job again. flpalermo. http://hub.me/adwSY


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Graceinus,

You make some great points. I am encouraged that you did additional research for yourself to "prove all things." I believe that this research should be compelling enough for anyone to realize that church is a counterfeit system that does not preach the Kingdom of God, but the kingdoms of men. It is quite interesting your point that church is a religious ecclesiastical word, but ekklesia isn't.

Thank-you for the additional insights. God Bless.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Flpalermo,

You ask some great questions. Without the power of the Holy Spirit working within us, it is all in vain. Many do not even know what the true Gospel is, and repentance is a foreign word to them. Most represent their own man-made kingdoms rather than the kingdom of God. Jesus Christ became a man to fulfill His purpose by doing the will of the Father. We cannot know our instructions and purpose unless we understand the purpose of Jesus Christ and who we are in Him. We cannot represent the Kingdom of God, or preach the Gospel of the Kingdom unless we come out of the world system and enter through the narrow gate.

And a highway shall be there, and it shall be called the Way of Holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it. It shall belong to those who walk on the way; even if they are fools, they shall not go astray. - Isaiah 35:8

Jesus Christ gives us the means to do the will of the Father.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

flpallermo- In my opinion PandN is just one of many of those wo are ekklesia. He (like others) are spreading the gospel of the Kingdom and other Good News. In this article and many others is just one means out of many. So when the WORD of the Kingdom is heard it is the responsibility of the hearer to study the bible further and learn and understand through the Holy Spirit. Do you think the Aposltes asked Jesus how are they going to do it. They simply did it the way Jesus did.


flpalermo profile image

flpalermo 2 years ago

graceinus: Jesus DID tell the Apostles "...greater works than these shall you DO" because I go back to the Father. Today the same work as Jesus is being done but not recognized by Pagan Christianity, or being done by Pagan Christianity. The Ekklesia is not of this world nor it can be. The word IS going out but not recognize.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

flpallermo- Please correct me if I am wrong. But Jesus was telling Apostles "what" they will do, not "how" they will do it. And I think you were asking "how". Unless there's a misunderstanding.

Blessings


flpalermo profile image

flpalermo 2 years ago

Graceinus: The "what" has to be done some way. Preaching the Gospel, baptizing the called out ones [which God inducts into the body of Christ which is His Ekklesia, not church], praying for the bretheren, visiting the sick, fellowshipping with others of like mind. God's Spiritual family, the Ekklesia, is how God provides a family for growth and love, and learning. All letters of Jesus Christ are addressed to the Ekklesia by Paul. [not addressed to the world]. Together we share in this calling to preach the good news of the future government of God on the earth. The Ekklesia does this.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

flpalermo- Point taken, thank you.


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

Thank you. Very timely post for me. Love reading your posts! There is nothing ever that I could pinpoint as fringe or unscriptural. Not that I am an expert, but we are clearly commanded to be Bereans, prove our own selves, examine ourselves and avoid even the appearance of evil.

Thank you again.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 2 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Good article, posted out as I feel more should see it.

Glad that you took up the word 'Churchianity'.... as far as I know I invented that word to describe exactly what you are exposing, thank you for using it correctly.

We are coming to the end of days, and Yeshua is calling us to be doers of His word, not just hearers.

Well done. :)


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

You are welcome. Feel free to poke, prod, question and examine things . I appreciate any feedback as others often see things from different angles.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Aquasilver,

I am glad we speak the same language. Thanks for the encouragement.


Liberty 2 years ago

P&N do you believe that Repentance is simply a change of mind or do you believe that Repent means 'turn from sin'.

I believe the word Repent simply means a change of mind. What the change of mind it about depends upon the context. Thomas Cucuzza has a free doc online on Repentance. I would be keen to know your thoughts. It is worth noting that the Apostle John did not use the word Repent or Repentance once, nor Phillip in his exchange with the Eunuch in Acts 8.

Today the Gospel is 'turn from your sins and believe in Jesus'.

How many sins must one turn from?

The Gospel is believing (trusting) in Christ alone.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Liberty,

Does God repents for us, or is it something we do?

In each verse that has repentance it implies a condition before something happens.

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach REPENTANCE. – 2 Peter 3:9

From that time on Jesus began to preach, "REPENT, for the kingdom of heaven is near." – Matthew 4:17

For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not REPENT and believe him. – Matthew 21:32

He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and REPENTANCE and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations – Like 24:46

This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: "In REPENTANCE and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength – Isaiah 30:15

Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to REPENTANCE." – Luke 5:31-32

REPENT, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord – Acts 3:19

I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in REPENTANCE and have faith in our Lord Jesus. – Acts 20:21

But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer. REPENT, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord – Acts 3:18-19

But because of your stubbornness and your UNREPENTANT heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. – Romans 2:5

No, I tell you; but unless you REPENT, you will all likewise perish. – Luke 13:3

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. - Isaiah 55:7

Now therefore mend your ways and your deeds, and obey the voice of the LORD your God – Jeremiah 26:13

After reading these following Scriptures, do you believe the ministry of Jesus Christ was to change people's minds for them, or to tell people they need to turn from their sin?

She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.” - John 8:11

Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you." - John 5:14

He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper, But he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion. - Proverbs 28:13

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. - 1 John 1:9

When anyone becomes aware that they are guilty in any of these matters, they must confess in what way they have sinned. - Leviticus 5:5

Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity. I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD." And you forgave the guilt of my sin. - Psalm 32:5


Liberty 2 years ago

I don't doubt for a second that Repentance is what the Lord requires of us.

But the word for Repent (Metanoia) is simply 'a change of mind'.

You asked, "Does God repents for us, or is it something we do?"

You are asking, "Does God change his mind for us?"

Repent means a change of mind.

That is the meaning of the Greek word for the English 'Repent' in the Bible.

The modern English word 'Repent' has a different meaning that the word Metanoia.

I do not doubt for a second that a converted person (a believer) is to "try to live a life without sin" but the reality is that Christians DO still sin despite Repenting (change of mind) and Believing.

Telling unconverted persons to Turn from your sin and believe in Jesus is like saying:

Believe in Jesus and then spend the rest of your life trying really hard to justify yourselves by trying really hard to keep from sin.

I don't view Repentance as "turning from sin". I view Repentance as a Change of mind whatever the context suggests.

Can I ask, do you still sin?

If so, how can you have turned from your sins?

Also, can you point me to one verse in Scripture where "Turn from your sin/s or Repent from your sin/s is located in Greek?".

Metanoia simply means a change of mind.

To redefine that word is to assault the Scriptures.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

PandN and Liberty- I found the following to be interesting regarding the word REPENT in which Moses asked God to REPENT and He did. It is found in Exodus 32: 12-14 (KJV) which states: 12 Wherefore should Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and REPENT of this evil against thy people. 13 Remembder Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants. to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your sedd, and they shall inherit it for ever. 14 And the Lord REPENTED of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

I would say in these verses God changed His mind because a man asked Him to. It's interesting to say the least.

Blessings


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Liberty,

I read the doc by Thomas Cucuzza.

I believe that repentance is imperative to the process of salvation, but also in our walk with Jesus Christ as believers. Without the Holy Spirit we would have no conviction to repent. Although the book of John does not use the word repentance, it presupposes it with the ministry of the Holy Spirit that convicts unbelievers of sin, which lays the groundwork for repentance and our continued walk with Jesus Christ.

And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment - John 16:8

You are right that we will still sin, but a true believer will not live in a lifestyle of sin. Someone who lives in a lifestyle of sin is still a slave to sin.

Yes, repentance means a change of mind, which is coming to the understanding of the consequence of our sin and our standing before God, and believing that Jesus Christ is the only Savior.

I do not believe that repentance is turning from all sin and making Christ Lord of everything before one can be saved, that is the false "gospel" of "Lordship Salvation."

Repentance does not stop us from sinning, but it is the power of the Holy Spirit within the believer that corrects our behaviors.

We are saved by faith, not of our own works, and it is only by accepting the grace of God and His Spirit working in us that we have the ability to be obedient to His ways.

What are your thoughts?


Liberty 2 years ago

I appreciate your response and the fact you took the time to read Tom Cucuzza's doc on Repentance.

You wrote,

"I believe that repentance is imperative to the process of salvation, but also in our walk with Jesus Christ as believers."

- Of course, because Repentance means a change of mind. A change of mind about who God is, who Jesus Christ is, who you are (as a sinner in need of forgiveness). That said, it is sufficient to preach "BELIEVE" without using the word "Repent" (as John's Gospel proves), because IF someone does Believe, they in fact HAVE repented.

(sorry about Caps, not to scream but to emphasize ;-) )

We don't need to go around blaring "Repent! Repent! Repent!".

Because:

1. The English word Repent does not mean the same as the Greek word Metanoia. This causes us to add works to the Gospel. This is what Lordship Salvationers do.

2. Repent simply means Change of Mind. You may as well say, "CHANGE YOUR MINDS!!! AND BELIEVE!!!".

That is the same thing as biblically Repenting and Believing.

You wrote,

"Without the Holy Spirit we would have no conviction to repent. Although the book of John does not use the word repentance, it presupposes it with the ministry of the Holy Spirit that convicts unbelievers of sin, which lays the groundwork for repentance and our continued walk with Jesus Christ."

I agree, God's Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and our need to CHANGE our MIND regarding our sinful position before a Holy God and believe in the Christ He sent to save us.

You wrote,

"You are right that we will still sin, but a true believer will not live in a lifestyle of sin. Someone who lives in a lifestyle of sin is still a slave to sin."

This is where I think we differ.

The use of the word "True believer" concerns me.

When someone says, "I don't think they're a true believer" what it does is turns us into fruit inspectors when Scripture is clear we're not the eternal judges of salvation.

When we read Matthew 7 we see there are a bunch whom the Lord rejects. They call him "Lord, Lord" and did "many wonderful works" in His name.

As a believer who came to faith in Christ at 14 I struggle with some bad sins for many years into my early twenties. These sins caused me to get to a point where my body was shutting down and I was at a position where I had to "humble myself before God" and get right with Him (my attitude).

If you apply your "true believer" perspective, then I must not have been a believer in those 8 years where my sin was horrible and to this day causes me shame.

During those 8 years I had a huge amount of conviction by God's Holy Spirit but I refused to yield to Him. Refused to "flee from fornication" etc.

That was my choice. The consequences did not prove my lack of genuine faith, but rather my disobedience to the Lord as a believer in Christ Jesus.

Remember that the Gospel is GOOD NEWS for sinful men.

"While we were yet SINNERS, Christ died for us". - Romans 5:8

You wrote,

"Yes, repentance means a change of mind, which is coming to the understanding of the consequence of our sin and our standing before God, and believing that Jesus Christ is the only Savior."

- That's right. and at the point where we are saved we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit and we are ETERNALLY saved by the power of God. This is despite our future sinful actions because Christ's death some 2000 years ago paid the price for all our sins."

You wrote,

"I do not believe that repentance is turning from all sin and making Christ Lord of everything before one can be saved, that is the false "gospel" of "Lordship Salvation."

- agreed. Having just left a LS Sunday club I can tell you that the Pharisee behaviour of those who preach "Repent" as (turn from sins to prove your salvation) causes much damage.

LS confuses Salvation with Discipleship. It tacks on Discipleship to the Gospel and add works as a justifying element to the Gospel of Grace. I have seen with my own eyes the damage this has done to people's faith.

Instead of looking at Jesus and Calvary for our security we look at our "good works" and know that we must be "true believers" because of our "righteous living".

Yes, we are to flee from sin and live Holy lives. I don't doubt that one bit. Some 80% of the New Testament is written to exhort believers to do such.

Consider: if good works naturally followed salvation, why would we need all the Epistles?

Conclusion: Good works SHOULD follow belief in Jesus, but it's not always evident to us and we shouldn't claim to know who are "true believers" and who are not as Matthew 7 is a sobering reminder that those amongst us who are the busiest for Jesus may in fact "miss the party boat".

I truly appreciate your discussion on this matter. Sorry for the long post.

In Christ.


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PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Graceinus,

When God has decreed a course of action in Scripture, he does not detract, relent, or change His mind when it is declared or decreed, but if God has not decreed a course of action He may detract, relent, or change His mind based on human response.

With that said, in the cases of God repenting, relenting, and changing His mind in Scripture, they are to be deemed as human attempts at trying to understand the actions of God. God is omniscient and sovereign and does not change.

God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it? - Numbers 23:19

Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose...Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely I will do it.… - Isaiah 46:10-11


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PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Liberty,

I appreciate you making the clarification that the definition of the word repent in the dictionary does not mean the same in the Greek in Scripture, just as the word church does not mean ekklesia. Upon this clearer understanding , I am going to change the word "repent" I used in this article to "change your mind." :)

I believe that those who profess to be Christians, but practice a continued habitual lifestyle of sin and immorality are not true believers. I wrote an article that clarifies my position in more detail.

http://hub.me/afQ9b

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. - Galatians 5:19-21

People who live like this are not right with God. If we witness a professing believer in gross sin, or immorality, we have have a responsibility to confront them with the truth.

I appreciate the discussion.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

PandN- If we look at the whole situation just before Exodus 32:12-14 to see why God had repented. God had sent Moses down the mountain with the two tablets of stone with contianed thee covenant God had just made with the children of Israel. That would be the "decree" (Law). In the mean time the children of Israel had just made a golden calf to worship. God was angery with them (and rightfully so). Had He destroyed Israel at that point (like He wanted to but Moses asked Him to repent), then what would of happened to the Covenant that God had just made with them. Isn't a covenant a decree? Don't misunderstand, I'm looking for clarity here. (By the way I'm not trying to get off topic here)


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PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Graceinus,

I appreciate that there are those who have different perspectives to offer. It doesn't matter if things get of topic as long as the goal to find Scriptural truth.

In Exodus 32:10 it states,

Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them, in order that I may make a great nation of you.”

This is an expression of God's anger with the Israelites, but it was not a decree. Moses then persuades Him to change His mind and relent from His stated course of action by reminding Him of the unconditional decree that He had made to the patriarchs in verse 13,

Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, to whom you SWORE by your own self, and said to them, ‘I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have promised I will give to your offspring, and they shall inherit it forever.’”

God threatened judgement, but changed His mind because he had not decreed it.

And the LORD relented from the disaster that he had spoken of bringing on his people. - Exodus 32:14


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

PandN- Thank you for clarifying. God bless.


Neil Braithwaite 2 years ago

Some really good discussions in this thread!

I stumbled on the web site of Clifford H. James and found some really good stuff that may interest you. http://www.theearlychurch.com/

Also, Do you believe in the trinity?

And then there is this passage that I just love and think it goes well with this post:

Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to those shepherds, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Woe, shepherds of Israel who have been FEEDING THEMSELVES! Should not the shepherds FEED THE FLOCK? You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fat sheep without feeding the flock. Those who are sickly you have not strengthened, the diseased you have not healed, the broken you have not bound up, the scattered you have not brought back, nor have you sought for the lost; but with force and with severity you have DOMINATED THEM. They were scattered for lack of a shepherd, and they became food for every beast of the field and were scattered. My flock wandered through all the mountains and on every high hill; My flock was scattered over all the surface of the earth, and there was no one to search or seek for them.”’” Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: “As I live,” declares the Lord God, “surely because My flock has become a prey, My flock has even become food for all the beasts of the field for lack of a shepherd, and My shepherds did NOT search for My flock, but rather the shepherds FED THEMSELVES and did NOT feed My flock; therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am AGAINST the shepherds, and I will demand My sheep from them and make them cease from feeding sheep. So the shepherds will NOT feed themselves anymore, but I WILL DELIVER MY FLOCK FROM THEIR MOUTH, so that they will NOT be food for them.”’” Ezekiel 34:1-10


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PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Neil,

Thanks for the link. I will check it out.

You are the second person that has asked me if i believe in the trinity today.

I believe that is a loaded question, but the best way I can describe what I believe is the following without writing thousands of words clarifying what I believe.

If there is only one God then 1+1+1 does not equal one God

If there is only one God then 1x1x1 equals one God.

I believe God can function in more than one capacity and still be only one God. I myself am a father, son and a husband. I can be in the same room with many other people and be all those things at once without others being confused about who I am although I am still one person.

The quoted words from Ezekiel are just as relevant today as these thing are happening right now when they were spoken back then.

Here are some verses that complement the verses you quoted from Ezekiel.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a THIEF and a ROBBER. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A STRANGER they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the VOICE OF STRANGERS.” This figure of speech Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them.

So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are THIEVES AND ROBBERS, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. The THIEF comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a HIRED HAND and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the WOLF coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the WOLF snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a HIRED HAND and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” - John 10:1-18


flpalermo profile image

flpalermo 2 years ago

P&N: O.K. try clicking here then http://hub.me/agAfp


Neil Braithwaite 2 years ago

P&N - First, it would be nice to have a "name" to call you other than an anonymous blog title. We are brothers in Christ, and I see no reason not to be more intimate, especially when discussing such important topics. I use my real name when I post comments and also on my blog. So I hope you will consider sharing at least a first name to your readers.

Second, If I may be so bold, I would implore you to take a serious look at the "trinity doctrine" before deciding to brush it off as superficial. (Not saying that's how you fee, but your comment was kind of indecisive) As seriously as you take the issue of corporate church, I would think you would put as much effort into the false teachings of the trinity doctrine. I had always been perplexed by the trinity, but until I began making serious inquiry into it, I didn't give it much thought as being such an abomination to New Testament teachings. I can honestly say now that after having the trinity doctrine fully explained, and with much study and prayer, the scriptures have never been more clear to me. I will go out on a limb and say that if you hold to any teachings of the trinity, that a deep study of the subject will also have the same effect on you.

Here is one of the major sites that covers the issue most thoroughly.

http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trin...

I suggest you read the introduction to the site by brother Kel before you begin your study. (Why I Abandoned the Trinity) The site contains both copy and video which is very helpful.

http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trin...

Blessings in your search of the truth in this issue.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Flpalermo,

It seems you may hold to a binitarian belief that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force of God from the link you provided.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Neil,

I don't believe in the trinity doctrine of, "God in three persons blessed trinity." I believe there is only one God and He is Jesus Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit. He functions in more than one capacity just like I am A father, son and husband, but the same person.

I came to this conclusion a few years ago when I read two articles by Judah's Daughter and it was a catalyst for me digging further. The perplexity as you described that I had all my indoctrinated life lifted, and I finally had peace of who God is.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Should-You...

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Should-You...

I haven't gone into into deep research mode as extensive as in the link you provided, but I appreciate the resource as I am always looking for something interesting to read. I've been reading from the earlychurch.com site and I like what I'm reading so far, and when I have time, I will check out the other links and watch the video.

Thank-you,

Aaron


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

Wow... Aaron,

Then who or what descended on Jesus during his baptism if you believe it is all one and the same person/God? I had that strange inkling that something was amiss even though it was not very obvious in your writings.


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PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

The Holy Spirit descended on Jesus Christ in His humanity.

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, a who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. - Phillipians 2:5-7

http://hub.me/a9GIH


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

P&N,

Or how would you explain when the bible says that Jesus is sitting on the right hand of the Father. If they are both the same person at the same time, how could that work?


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

Ok, this is my last post regarding this ...

1John 5:7.

"For there are THREE that bear record in heaven: the father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these THREE ARE ONE.

I one of us either doesn't believe the bible or is deceived. According to the bible 1+1+1=3


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

The term "right hand" is not a body part, but is symbolic of a place of power, authority and acceptance with God just as the left hand of God is symbolic of rejection.

And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. - Matthew 25:33

Here are further symbolical uses of the term "right hand" as correlated to power and authority in Scripture.

My right hand hath spanned the heavens. - Isaiah 48:13

The Lord is at the right hand of the poor. - Psalms 109:31

God led Israel by the right hand of Moses. - Isaiah 63:12

The Lord was at David’s right hand. - Psalms 16:8

To give literal meanings in this sense, the scriptures would suggest that a physical arm came down from the sky to lead Israel, or a physical nose came down and parted the waters as in this verse:

At the blast of your nostrils the waters piled up; the floods stood up in a heap; the deeps congealed in the heart of the sea. - Exodus 15:8.

Scripture in the context of Jesus Christ sitting at the right hand of the Father is speaking to the spiritual, but with physical description to help the reader understand.


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

For heavens' sakes, P&N... Read the bible not some Judah's daughter thing. A man of your intellect can definitely do better than that.


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

P&N says, "The term "right hand" is not a body part, but is symbolic of a place of power, authority and acceptance with God..."

Wow! What a news! God accepted HIMSELF if he is the same person as Jesus. Just imagine what would happen if God did not accept himself. Hahaha. I can't tell you what chuckle you fave me by your explanation.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

If course I can do better than that. I'm willing to walk out and discuss any questions you have and you can poke away at anything I have to say. I am by no means infallible and have been deceived in my beliefs. God can use people as causal agents to bring correction and admonishment if the evidence proves otherwise. I have answered your first and second question with Scripture verses. Do you have any additional thoughts?

If you will have patience with me, I will answer your third question.


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

I guess, there is no need for me to discuss anything anymore. Wish you all the best. The bible is clear in these exact words - these THREE ARE ONE or 1+1+1=3. If you don't believe the bible, no explanation is sufficient.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

Yes, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one. As I explained earlier, I am a father, son and husband. I am still the same ONE person and can function in more than one capacity. 1x1x1=3

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. - 1 John 5:7

Scripture does not say that that there are three persons who are one, or that these three persons are as one. The Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are three offices, which God (singular) functions in. It is just like you or I being a teacher, musician and administrator occupying or functioning in more than one capacity.


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

P&N says,

"The Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit are three offices..."

Well, no. There are many more offices of God than 3. He is a councillor, a shepherd, a redeemer etc.

The 3 listed in 1 John 5:7 THESE ARE 3 persons and THESE THREE are one. If you speak of yourself (being one person) are you saying that THEY ARE a musician, a teacher and an administrator? Or... You are saying I AM a teacher; I am a musician and I am an administrator?


flpalermo profile image

flpalermo 2 years ago

P&N: How in the world did you interpret that I am a biniterian believer? Did you read the article? The article proves only one God.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

You stated,

("Wow! What a news! God accepted HIMSELF if he is the same person as Jesus. Just imagine what would happen if God did not accept himself. Hahaha. I can't tell you what chuckle you fave me by your explanation.")

You twisted the definition and isolated it to just acceptance. I stated that "right hand" was place of power, AUTHORITY and acceptance with God just as the left hand of God is symbolic of rejection.

And Jesus came and said to them, “All AUTHORITY in heaven and on earth has been given to me. - Matthew 28:18

Does 1+1+1=3?

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is ONE. - Deuteronomy 6:4

ONE Lord, one faith, one baptism, ONE God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. - Ephesians 4:5-6

In the Book of Revelation, there was only ONE Throne of God and only ONE who sat on the Throne. here in the Bible does it mention Bible three co-equal "persons" sitting on ONE Throne or each one having Throne of their own. God is spiritual, invisible, and omnipresent throughout the universe. There is no one beside there Him. The "right hand of God" is the authority of Jesus Christ and His exalted position. God exercises His authority by His "right hand."

It was prophesied that A Messiah would come in the flesh.

Let thy hand be upon the man of thy RIGHT HAND, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself. - Psalm 80:17


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

P&N,

1 Peter 3:22

"Who (Jesus) is gone into heaven, and IS ON THE RIGHT HAND OF God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." Is there 1 of them there or 2? I take it to the most elementary level... Sorry...

So if Jesus is (according to you) the same person as the father, ON whose right hand is he sitting? I am asking the same question (in a bit different wording) for the second time, but you keep on giving me answers about right hand as authority or Jesus being a right-hand man of God.

Mind you, Sir, this is one of MANY scriptures telling us about Jesus being ON the right hand of a God or sitting on the right side of God etc.


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PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

I never said Jesus was the "right hand man" of God. The authority (right hand) of God functions in Jesus Christ. After He resurrected and ascended to heaven, He entered into the heavenly realm and received the proclamation because of His victory, "Sit down at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

"All AUTHORITY has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. - Matthew 28:18

And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus - Colossians 3:17


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

P&N,

"Sit down at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

Q: was Jesus talking to himself? Or the father was talking to himself?

Or is there the father, the Son and Holy Spirit (these three are one according to 1John) co-eternal, equal in power and divinity, and communicating with each other which is recorded many times for our benefit?


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Flpalermo,

Sorry, I may a have read the article out of context. I will address it there.


Neil Braithwaite 2 years ago

Simplyl and all other trinitarian believers - especially those who use 1 John 5:7 as your proof text: (From http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trin... This site is the most extensive study of the trinity doctrine you will find.

http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trin...

(Video from same author)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-lFTcC11-A

I was deceived for many years by the trinity doctrine. Please investigate this issue fully - it will absolutely help make perfect sense of the New Testament!


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimpliyI,

I plan on taking some time to carefully peruse the links Neil gave us above.

Would you be willing to do the same and post your thoughts afterwards?

I realize this is a very extensive discussion and somehow I knew this would happen after the question was asked.


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

By God, one of us is wrong. It's a matter of life and death! The links above (please do not be offended whoever provided them) are not something that a somewhat literate person may consider. I am really sorry to say that. Please go and see for yourself. You will not stay there long regardless what position you hold... Goodnight. Thank you for your time.

P.S.

I still believe that Bible is the ONLY source for doctrine, correction etc. That's what we are told in the bible, isn't it?


Liberty 2 years ago

Thanks Aaron.

In regards to the Spiritual Maturity of others, do you think Scripture gives us the task of inspecting others for validation of their profession?

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. – Ephesians 2:10

Note: (should walk in them, not will)

Likewise, the good works of some are clearly evident, and those that are otherwise cannot be hidden. – 1 Timothy 5:25

note: (good works of SOME)

In all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility – Titus 2:7

note: this wouldn't need to be written in good works were automatical.

Spiritual maturity isn't guaranteed, or do you believe it is?

On the Trinity issue.

Wow.

As if it's not bad enough I've lost all my friends due to walking away from the Sunday club, now I've got to rethink the Trinity.

Ugh.


Liberty 2 years ago

Ignore that typo. "Automatical". Man alive! haha.

This Trinity issue is a tad confusing. I read the Judahsdaughter hub and I'm to understand correctly. Please clarify. There are two main views right:

Trinitarianism or Modalism.

Trinitarianism says there is ONE God but in THREE persons. The three persons are not the same (Father isn't the Son, Son isn't the HS, HS isn't the Father) yet at the same time all are 100% God. (that's not confusing, much!)

Modalism says there is ONE God who manifests Himself in different forms. Jesus is God manifest in the FLESH (a form), and the Holy Spirit in believers is God the Spirit (a form). The Father, Son and HS are the same, ie: they are not different 'persons' but are all 100% God.

Is it accurate to say there is ONE God, who throughout time has manifested Himself in different ways. Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, and the Holy Spirit given to those who believe is God in Spirit. All are God and are one and the same.

Man this is confusing.


Neil Braithwaite 2 years ago

Simplyl - As a "somewhat" literate person, the links I gave may not be in line with the exceptional writing with which you are accustom, and they may not align with every doctrinal position you hold, but they are the most exhaustive study on the trinity doctrine I have found. Sure there are side-issues I would challenge the author on, but he is well versed in everything the Bible says about the trinity. I would challenge you to read and study with an open mind - subject to the Holy Spirit's guidance, and seek the truth in this matter - regardless if it isn't what you "believe" now. Please remember, some translations of the Bible were subject to political pressure. (I.e. the KJV) So make sure any "proof" text you use to validate your doctrinal beliefs agree with the earliest manuscripts available. 1 John 5:7 happens to be a good example of this problem for trinity believers. Unfortunately, most people believe their translation is exactly what God ordained, but regarding certain passages, this couldn't be further from the truth. This is crucial when seeking the truth in God's word from both a biblical and historical perspective.


SimplyI 2 years ago from Ontario, Canada

Hello again,

The bottom line is whether or not you believe the WORD OF THE LIVING GOD. He specified why he gave us his word, and he assured us that he will preserve it. Now, do you believe what he said? Or was he a liar? Obviously, can't be both. Some of you, definitely, prefer the word of man. So be it. I am not here to change anyone's mind. I just stated few scriptures as they alone are the standard by which each of one will be judged. And "it is a fearful thing to fall in the hands of the living God." Let's search Him diligently as long as he can be found. Hebrews 11:6 says, "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a REWARDER of them that DILIGENTLY seek him."

2 Timothy 3:16-17 "ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

Matthew 12:36 "I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall GIVE ACCOUNT thereof in the day of judgment."

Mark 13:31 "God's words will NEVER PASS AWAY. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall NOT pass away."

Proverbs 30:5 "EVERY word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him."

Matthew 5:18 “I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, NOT the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.”

Amen

On top of the many questions I asked above, do you also have a human explanation for the voice from the cloud during Jesus transfiguration?

To whom was the father speaking "let us create" or "who will go for us" plus many more? Do you serve a bipolar/lunatic god who walks and talks to himself and constantly refers to himself in plural? That's not my holy God. My God is very precise and says ALWAYS exactly what he wants to say exclusively for our benefit. My God revealed himself in his holy, inspired and preserved word as "these three make one" -- not in human essays.

Please search the scripture in humility without preconceived notions. If we ask him for wisdom, he will give it to us.

My mission is completed. I have nothing to add or recant. I am prepared to die for his holy word (and my faith) even as thousands did over the centuries. Are you prepared to die for your faith and his word? If you are not, you don't belong to him! Unfortunately, pretty soon you will HAVE to make this decision. Now it's time to think seriously what you believe , why you believe, and whom you believe.


flpalermo profile image

flpalermo 2 years ago

Simply-I : Your mission IS completed. You have to come out of Pagan Christianity to understand. By the way, the voice from the cloud was not literal. Jesus told His disciples as they were going down to "tell the VISION to no man." There is more you need to know in order to understand.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Liberty,

I believe we are to be like the Bereans and investigate whether something is true or not. We are to weigh and test the evidence for validation, which includes the character of people. Working towards the unity of the faith includes working out issues together to solidify what we believe to be in one accord.

So that we may NO LONGER BE CHILDREN, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love. - Ephesians 4:14-16

I wrote an article on Spiritual Maturity that may clarify whether spiritual maturity is guaranteed or not.

http://hub.me/afQ9b

I understand you frustration with the "Trinity" doctrine. I would encourage you to take the time to read the links and then weigh and test them with Scripture, but also the Greek and Hebrew. Unfortunately, many of the modern translations of the Bible have additions and subtractions compared to the earliest manuscripts. A lot of the confusion comes from manuscript corruptions and translations.

For example 1 John 5:7 used as a "proof" text for the trinity is an added insertion. This evidence has forced scholars to acknowledge that this verse is a corruption that was added to the Scriptures.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

("The bottom line is whether or not you believe the WORD OF THE LIVING GOD.")

How do you know that your translation of the Bible is correct?

Does your Bible have the ecclesiastical term church in it?

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness - 2 Timothy 3:16

The Bible's inspiration refers to the original autographs, not the process of translation, or of the translators, but the original proclamation of the Word. Quoted English text is authoritative only when it reflects the original.

The verse you quoted,

"For there are THREE that bear record in heaven: the father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these THREE ARE ONE. - 1 John 5:7

This "proof" text you quoted was added to Scripture as it is nowhere to be found in the earliest manuscripts.

Please do not say you have completed your mission. You haven't even really started.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

SimplyI,

("Do you serve a bipolar/lunatic god who walks and talks to himself and constantly refers to himself in plural? ")

Roman Catholic scholars will point out the word for “God” in both Genesis 1:26-27 as “Elohim.” They say it is a plural word in the Hebrew that indicates more than one person (trinity). This would mean that when Elohim says, “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness," it is the three (plural) persons of the Trinity speaking as one person.

Is this true?

It is true Elohim is a plural word in the Hebrew, but it is not used to identify a number when put together with singular nouns or pronouns, as in Genesis 1:26-27. The proper way to read the verse in context is , “So God (Elohim) created man in His own image, in the image of God (Elohim) created He him; male and female created He them.”

In Hebrew grammar, Elohim is plural of Majesty derived from the Hebrew verb “el” that means strength and thus Elohim amplifies the meaning of strength (el). The literal rendering of Elohim is, “The strongest strength," or “the strongest of the strong.” To introduce the polytheistic Catholic concept of the Trinity into a monotheistic Hebrew scripture twists the meaning of God.


Liberty 2 years ago

Thanks Aaron.

You wrote:

"For example 1 John 5:7 used as a "proof" text for the trinity is an added insertion. This evidence has forced scholars to acknowledge that this verse is a corruption that was added to the Scriptures."

Do you mind sharing some sources regarding this evidence?

I've come from a KJVO background so am aware of the dodgy inserts already in the KJV by doing my own checking of the Greek. I'm keen to find out about 1 John 5:7 as that text is clearly different in KJV versus the 'modern versions'.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 2 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Liberty,

Here are two versions to compare:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. - 1 John 5:7-8 KJV

For there are three that testify, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three are in agreement. - 1 John 5:7-8 NET

As you can see there is quite a difference in text. The controversy is, what on is true and what one is false?

The Expositor's Bible Commentary dismisses the King James and New King James Versions' additions in 1 John:5:7-8 as a later entry. (Glenn Barker, Vol. 12, 1981, p. 353).

Peake's Commentary says, 'three witnesses' is not printed in RSV and rightly [so] .  .  . No respectable Greek [manuscript] contains it. Appearing first in a late 4th century Latin text, it entered the Vulgate [the 5th-century Latin version, which became the common medieval translation] and finally NT [New Testament] of Erasmus [who produced newly collated Greek texts and a new Latin version in the 16th century]" (p. 1038).

Additionally, you can Google, "Comma Johanneum" for more information and sources.


Neil Braithwaite 2 years ago

Liberty - Have a look at this video on 1 John 5:5-7:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-lFTcC11-A

It helped explain a lot for me..


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

PandN- I hope you might find the following information to be a bit interesting. The very first time the word ekklesia is translated as church was in the Geneve New Testament Bible in 1557 which was produced by William Whittingham. Then again in the Bishops Bible in the year 1568 which was the revised Geneva Bible, then again in the King James Bible in the year 1611 in England. I hope this helps

God bless.


flpalermo profile image

flpalermo 2 years ago

I saw the video on 1 John 5:5-7. Every Hubber who seeks the truth, should see it. Excellent video.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

What I find interesting about the video on 1John 5:5-7 is the fact that he mentions the word church about a hundred times or so and then divids church between Westen half of the church and Eastern half of the church due to Latin and Greek text and so on. He explains the church came up with the trinity doctrine first in Latin manuscript at about 500 A.D. My question is how did the "church" invent the trinity doctrine from Latin at about 500 A.D. when the word church, itself, was not used until the Genevy New Testament bible in the year 1557? The point is, this man argues the point against the trinity as a false doctrine by the church but appearently has no idea where the word " church"came" from or when. He points out that the trinity doctrine is a lie, yet he make no mention that church is not the correct translation of ekklesia. If he does not know what the ekklesia is, then how can he argue againts the trinity. The word church is in the bible, but the word trinity is not. Hummmmm


Neil Braithwaite 2 years ago

graceinus -

I've read and listened to many of Kel's (That's the man's name you mention in the video on 1 John 5-7) videos and teachings. When he uses the term "church" it's to relate to his audience better. In a comment thread I asked him once why he used the term "church" instead of "ekklesia" and that was basically his answer. Otherwise he would have to constantly explain the difference between ekklesia and church as a preface to all his writing and videos.

If you desire conformation from Kel in this matter, I suggest you ask him in a comment thread on his Youtube page or his website. He usually gets back to you quickly.

In any case, his use of the term "church" in no way diminishes his work of study.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

Neil- Thank you for explaining, however, if "Kel's" does not bother to explain the "ekklesia vs church in the preface of this video, then all he is doing (in this case at least) is telling what he believes is one truth but then withholding another truth at the same time. What he did is a form of misleading. If Kel's did not have the information then he could not explain what he does not know. But in this case you are saying he has the information but basically withheld it. He should have explained it in the preface if he had the information, regardless of how often he has to explain. There are people out there who are searching for truth, not for half truth.


Neil Braithwaite 2 years ago

graceinus -

It seems to me that Kel focuses mainly on the trinity doctrine for a reason. Having to espouse his views on every "debatable" truth of scripture would detract from that reasoned focus. Like having to preface all his studies of the trinity on everything from the virgin birth, creation, baptism, predestination, the rapture, and on and on and on. You can see this would not only not be feasible, it would be quite a bit of information to have to wade through if if you visited his web site to research the trinity doctrine.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

Neil- I, personally, don't care one way or the other about the word trinity. I believe God, I believe Jesus Christ and I believe the Holy Spirit. To me, THAT is what matters.

God bless


Neil Braithwaite 2 years ago

graceinus -

Sorry, I was just trying to give some clarification to your question??? I wasn't trying to offend you.

The "word" trinity means nothing to me either. However, when it represents a deceitful doctrine of men perpetrated on the body of Christ, it needs to be exposed.

As for brother Kel, the man is not trying to mislead anyone, only expose the lie of the trinity doctrine. And as I stated in my last comment, that seems to be his focus.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

Neil- I am not offended. I was driving home a point that what matters to me is what I believe. I don't or haven't dwelt on the thought if God is three in one (trinity). For me, at this point in time, it is a non-issue. I don't try to wrap my mind around the idea that God might be three "persons" in one. Because such an idea or concept it difficult to understand for anyone. By far (as stated earlier) I believe God, believe Jesus Christ and believe the Holy Spirit. In this manner I able to accept God as the Father in Heaven, Jesus Christ ministry and Him as the Son of God and the Holy Spirit as our counseler and guide. In Matthew 28:19 Jesus states: 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and Son and OF the Holy Spirit.

Notice Jesus did not say in the name of the Holy Spirit, but " OF the Holy Spirit." Have you ever thought about why this is? This implies the Holy Spirit has a different poisition.

Why is it that if we blasphemy against God or Jesus we will be forgiven, but if we blasphemy against the Holy Spirit we are never forgiven, as it states in Mark 3:28-29. If the trinity doctrine is true, then this is saying if we blasphemy two parts of God, we will be forgiven but we we blasphemy the third part of God we will never be forgiven. Then my question to this would be ; Why? How does 2/3rd of God forgive ?

There is much about God that is beyound our understanding.

So, the point is, I am not for or against the trinity doctrine because clearly my understanding of GOD is still very much lacking, which is why I made my above comment before this one, until such time that I have a clearer or better understanding.


Ignatius 2 years ago

Which translation of the bible is closest to original autograph?


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 24 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Ignatius,

No English translation of the Bible is perfect, but an interlinear Bible with a lexicon may help find the original meaning of a word, the definition and other ways it is used in Scripture.


flpalermo profile image

flpalermo 24 months ago

I use "The Holy Bible In It's Original Order" (a New English Translation) published by York Publishing Company, New York. Because I cannot advertise it on Hub Pages, you may check Google, and find it.


Rodneyo 22 months ago

Today many know the bible, but have never had God become real to them. Most people have never had God make himself known to them even through a beautiful sunset. To most God is just history, or he is way off in space somewhere. The importance is not in experiences, but instead experiencing God. I contend, you have to experienced God. Possibly he opens the scriptures to you, and makes them come alive; they became a "word" of God to you.

It would be like you and I having coffee everyday together, sharing life and all things included. We would age together and become deep friends. We may never have a spiritual experience, but we would definitely experience each other, as Moses experienced God at the tent, when Miriam and Aron spoke against Moses, and God spoke about how He and Moses were friends. Moses experienced God. God was experienced by everyone we read about in the OT and the NT.

You know the parable of the sower, the seeds sown by Jesus, and the seeds sown by the Devil. Those seeds manifest themselves for what they really are. These are people, could be religious, like the pharisees, who were called children of the devil by Jesus. They may be the nicest, sweetest people, but what seed are they of?

I fear that the so-called church, the large visible body that meets on the corner of every city in America is missing God. There are many within this so-called visible church (though fewer in number) that truly belong to Jesus, these are the invisible church. From my point of view, the visible church has sprung up not from experiencing God, but from its exposure to the bible "The Scriptures", but this is not necessarily so, of the invisible church "The Ecklesia".

For example most people throughout history couldn't read, we had no printing presses, and when printed most people couldn't afford the bible, this is seen during the dark ages, yet the ecklesia thrived. How? It wasn't because they had a bible; it was because God was real and made himself known to them. Possibly through someone who had a bible, but probably not.

Brother Lawrence / Laubach; in his book practicing the presence; makes the claim that God became real to him, by seeing a tree losing it leaves, knowing life would again come to the tree the following year.

Here forgive me.... Let me expound more and just be open, even though we don't know each other, possibly we can glean from one another as two who see the forest from different angles?

Could it be, that True and False Christianity...Are both produced by the Bible. Everything is about contrast (light, dark, evil, and good), or it's to express God's glory, and his many attributes...God even created evil for this purposes.

The contrast in Christianity is the true church, and the false church. The invisible ecklesia -vs- the large visible body of people in every church, on every corner. The wheat, and the chaff or tare. The good seed and the bad seed. The Pharisee, and Jesus, sheep and Goats, Light and darkness.

Today is a replay of the life of Jesus in his body singular (the one that died on the cross); now this body "His Body" is plural, many membered...The same prosecutions, torments, dying, will happen in us as it did in him. Now the Pharisees are the religious of today. True Christianity and false Christianity, is so close, to the real church, the real walk, the real life...So close that it could even fool the elect, if that were possible....

So how does God establish the tare, this large so-called church. Do we see it throughout time? Yes, and it all started with two trees. The tree of life, and the tree of knowledge. We see the essence of these two trees, in many forms. One is in the visible church, and the invisible church, the wheat and tare.

The large visible church exists and is sustained by the visible, tangible, written word (The Bible). They find themselves at home with the text, they can control it, they build laws, rules, religious rituals, and doctrines. By this same knowledge they also remove God, who is Spirit, out of their midst, issues of control, a form of religion, and rules, that denies the power thereof. There is no body ministry, led of God's Spirit.

Do you think this would all be obvious, and plainly visible, or only visible to us by discernment? It had to be hidden, even from those who were in the midst of it, or else they would not have participated. Both sides, real and false are hidden, even from themselves. If not hidden, you couldn't get anyone to participate in this plan of God.

I'm not against these people; most are genuine, nice, sweet people. But we are discussing truth here. Now God is revealing these things to us, and getting ready to reveal us to each other, to reveal the true church to herself, to reveal the false church to the true.

While most of the members of both groups are wonderful people and well intentioned, the visible false church, is still like the Pharisees of old. They search the scriptures daily, but won't come to Christ, that they might have life. In fact they were never destined to life, this is what the scriptures say, the body / the ecklesia / the invisible church has life, they were destined to life, from the beginning.

The true body, the ecklesia exist by "the word", they know a hidden walk, they know the masters voice. This has got to be the common denominator throughout time, since many could not read, and the few that could read, didn't have a copy of the bible. Yet the Ecklesia flourished, even in the dark ages, and in countries that never allowed sacred texts, like China, and Russia...

Today both flourish, and this thing called church, or churchianity, has said to all, we represent God. But they do not, and God is getting ready to show this world, his true church, the ecklesia....God's mercy, and the world demand such an event, to rid God, of the stain of falsehood. Whether that be TV preachers, or even all the pain caused to so many in the name of God by so-called Christianity, which was NOT Christianity, but instead, it was this false church the large, visible church, this system.

God is separating HIS people "The Ecclesia from this thing called church, "churchianity". He is building his kingdom, it is on the inside. That is what Jesus says.

There is no way for light and darkness to fellowship together and there is NO way all those people in all these churches are truly born again via an encounter with Christ. That encounter must take place...We must experience God.

So there is no way they can fellowship with you, or you with them, if you are part of that invisible "REAL" church, for what fellowship does light have with darkness. You might as well go to a Safeway store and try and "do church" with all the people there, it will not work.

Remember Jesus says "my sheep hear my voice", and man shall not live by bread alone, the word of the Lord came unto, peter rise and eat, ETC. You see what I mean? "The word of the Lord" via "The scriptures" can become a fresh word to you, but, we can not use the terms "The word" and "the bible" interchangeably.

The point I'm making is, there is a lot written in the bible about hearing, hardly anything about reading. Everything written in the bible was spoken before it was written. Genesis was spoken, and then written by Moses.

We must come to a common denominator, for people to receive Christ, to hear the message, or to experience Christianity, and it cannot be the bible, even though God has used the scriptures to do so on occasion. Still I love the scriptures, and they are true, they are God inspired. They have just been elevated to a position by this false church, where they have taken the place of God.

Also to express my point, do this: Every place in the scriptures where it says, "the word" or "the word came unto" replace every instance with "The bible"....It just will not make sense...

As far as people hearing "The word" vs studying "The scriptures" I see a big difference between the two. One is heard, one is read. Many can read, few can hear. One is always spoken, and one is written, but can be made alive to you, and become a spoken word. God also speaks apart from the scriptures, remember God sp


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 22 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Rodneyo,

Thank-you for spending the time to write and share your thoughts.

You are right, many know the Bible, but they are just words. They associate with it, but the Word is not written on their hearts. When we truly experience God, He reveals Himself in a way that we cannot deny because he makes us into new creations. We no longer conform to the world, but to His Kingdom. We seek first the Kingdom of God.

I believe we are in a time that there are more tares than wheat in the field of the world. Many are on the wide road and don't realize it. These people sit all glossy-eyed in the pews of their temple with their man-made templates in predictable fashion.They are caught up in man's traditions in ignorant bliss.

These people need the true Gospel and allow Jesus Christ to lead them instead of salaried men, but not many are willing to share it to them because it will bring offense. We must be bold enough to proclaim truth without compromising the Way.

The way of the Ekklesia is faith put into action as the Word becomes alive in God's people.

God Bless!


Hannah David Cini profile image

Hannah David Cini 21 months ago from Nottingham

Interesting and well researched article though I can't say I agree fully. although I think the church shouldn't be there to rule or lord over people, having a place to go and meet other Christians and learn from each other can be a huge blessing and often an organised nominal church can be a huge blessing and support to someone. I guess it's a lot about balance and motive.


Rodneyo 21 months ago

Right now the ecklesia/bride/wheat are hidden. They are hidden from themselves and each other, but soon to be revealed.

I agree with the article above and believe the author is right on.

Further more I would like to add that we don't even understand Christianity unless it is revealed to us.

Let me give you a very important example:

Today many know the bible, but have never had God become real to them. Most people have never had God make himself known to them even through a beautiful sunset. To most God is just history, or he is way off in space somewhere. The importance is not in experiences, but instead experiencing God. I contend, you have to experienced God. Possibly he opens the scriptures to you, and makes them come alive; they became a "word" of God to you.

It would be like you and I having coffee everyday together, sharing life and all things included. We would age together and become deep friends. We may never have a spiritual experience, but we would definitely experience each other, as Moses experienced God at the tent, when Miriam and Aron spoke against Moses, and God spoke about how He and Moses were friends. Moses experienced God. God was experienced by everyone we read about in the OT and the NT.

You know the parable of the sower, the seeds sown by Jesus, and the seeds sown by the Devil. Those seeds manifest themselves for what they really are. These are people, could be religious, like the pharisees, who were called children of the devil by Jesus. They may be the nicest, sweetest people, but what seed are they of?

I fear that the so-called church, the large visible body that meets on the corner of every city in America is missing God. There are many within this so-called visible church (though fewer in number) that truly belong to Jesus, these are the invisible church. From my point of view, the visible church has sprung up not from experiencing God, but from its exposure to the bible "The Scriptures", but this is not necessarily so, of the invisible church "The Ecklesia".

For example most people throughout history couldn't read, we had no printing presses, and when printed most people couldn't afford the bible, this is seen during the dark ages, yet the ecklesia thrived. How? It wasn't because they had a bible; it was because God was real and made himself known to them. Possibly through someone who had a bible, but probably not.

Brother Lawrence / Laubach; in his book practicing the presence; makes the claim that God became real to him, by seeing a tree losing it leaves, knowing life would again come to the tree the following year.

Here forgive me.... Let me expound more and just be open, even though we don't know each other, possibly we can glean from one another as two who see the forest from different angles?

Could it be, that True and False Christianity...Are both produced by the Bible. Everything is about contrast (light, dark, evil, and good), or it's to express God's glory, and his many attributes...God even created evil for this purposes.

The contrast in Christianity is the true church, and the false church. The invisible ecklesia -vs- the large visible body of people in every church, on every corner. The wheat, and the chaff or tare. The good seed and the bad seed. The Pharisee, and Jesus, sheep and Goats, Light and darkness.

Today is a replay of the life of Jesus in his body singular (the one that died on the cross); now this body "His Body" is plural, many membered...The same prosecutions, torments, dying, will happen in us as it did in him. Now the Pharisees are the religious of today. True Christianity and false Christianity, is so close, to the real church, the real walk, the real life...So close that it could even fool the elect, if that were possible....

So how does God establish the tare, this large so-called church. Do we see it throughout time? Yes, and it all started with two trees. The tree of life, and the tree of knowledge. We see the essence of these two trees, in many forms. One is in the visible church, and the invisible church, the wheat and tare.

The large visible church exists and is sustained by the visible, tangible, written word (The Bible). They find themselves at home with the text, they can control it, they build laws, rules, religious rituals, and doctrines. By this same knowledge they also remove God, who is Spirit, out of their midst, issues of control, a form of religion, and rules, that denies the power thereof. There is no body ministry, led of God's Spirit.

Do you think this would all be obvious, and plainly visible, or only visible to us by discernment? It had to be hidden, even from those who were in the midst of it, or else they would not have participated. Both sides, real and false are hidden, even from themselves. If not hidden, you couldn't get anyone to participate in this plan of God.

I'm not against these people; most are genuine, nice, sweet people. But we are discussing truth here. Now God is revealing these things to us, and getting ready to reveal us to each other, to reveal the true church to herself, to reveal the false church to the true.

While most of the members of both groups are wonderful people and well intentioned, the visible false church, is still like the Pharisees of old. They search the scriptures daily, but won't come to Christ, that they might have life. In fact they were never destined to life, this is what the scriptures say, the body / the ecklesia / the invisible church has life, they were destined to life, from the beginning.

The true body, the ecklesia exist by "the word", they know a hidden walk, they know the masters voice. This has got to be the common denominator throughout time, since many could not read, and the few that could read, didn't have a copy of the bible. Yet the Ecklesia flourished, even in the dark ages, and in countries that never allowed sacred texts, like China, and Russia...

Today both flourish, and this thing called church, or churchianity, has said to all, we represent God. But they do not, and God is getting ready to show this world, his true church, the ecklesia....God's mercy, and the world demand such an event, to rid God, of the stain of falsehood. Whether that be TV preachers, or even all the pain caused to so many in the name of God by so-called Christianity, which was NOT Christianity, but instead, it was this false church the large, visible church, this system.

God is separating HIS people "The Ecclesia from this thing called church, "churchianity". He is building his kingdom, it is on the inside. That is what Jesus says.

There is no way for light and darkness to fellowship together and there is NO way all those people in all these churches are truly born again via an encounter with Christ. That encounter must take place...We must experience God.

So there is no way they can fellowship with you, or you with them, if you are part of that invisible "REAL" church, for what fellowship does light have with darkness. You might as well go to a Safeway store and try to "do church" with all the people there, it will not work.

Remember Jesus says "my sheep hear my voice", and man shall not live by bread alone, the word of the Lord came unto, peter rise and eat, ETC. You see what I mean? "The word of the Lord" via "The scriptures" can become a fresh word to you, but, we can not use the terms "The word" and "the bible" interchangeably.

The point I'm making is, there is a lot written in the bible about hearing, hardly anything about reading. Everything written in the bible was spoken before it was written. Genesis was spoken, and then written by Moses.

We must come to a common denominator, for people to receive Christ, to hear the message, or to experience Christianity, and it cannot be the bible, even though God has used the scriptures to do so on occasion. Still I love the scriptures, and they are true, they are God inspired. They have just been elevated to a position by this false church, where they have taken the place of God.

Also to express my point, do this: Every place in the scriptures where it says, "the word" or "the word came unto" replace every instance with "The bible"....It just wi


Rodneyo 21 months ago

Oh I thought I'd share this with you. It is out of print, but can be read here for free, just click on pages to turn each one.

https://archive.org/stream/surrenderedlifeb00mcco#.../n5/mode/2up


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 21 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Hannah,

It is true that there is nothing wrong with fellowshiping with other brothers and sisters Jesus Christ, but the context of this article is about those who fellowship within the scope of the traditions of man and twist Scripture to promote it.

If you peruse Scripture, you will find that the Church system with their named buildings, denominations and clergy who run them do not follow the way of Jesus Christ and his Ekklesia. I have written many articles that addresses the illusion of Churchianity and I can tell you it is a solely a man driven system that just gives lip service to Jesus Christ and Scripture, but in action defies him. Jesus Christ is not the Head in the Church system, but self-titled men who put themselves in charge.

Thank-you for taking the time to read and your comment.


Rodneyo 21 months ago

This is something that I always suspected, but this man wrote it in a way that is easy to understand.

Use Google and search: "Roland Pletts" sons to glory Jesus Second Coming


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 21 months ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ Author

Rodney,

I am familiar with Roland Plett's book, and it makes sense to me as it clears the fog from all the Churchianity doctrine that creates so much confusion on Jesus' return. I'll check out the other book when I have the time.

God Bless.


Rodneyo 20 months ago

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