The Seven Spirits of God - The Flame of the Menorah!

Rev 2:1 "The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands"
Rev 2:1 "The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands"

I have to admit; I’ve never really studied the ‘seven spirits of God’ mentioned in Revelation nor tried to interpret what it means. However, the time has come because I am sparked to action when I see the birth of what I know in my heart are false interpretations. Monica Dennington, for instance, has a whole new ‘revelation’ she’s teaching in a series of youtube videos stating, “This is very exciting, brothers and sisters, because God is NOW going to reveal to us who He is – not God in three persons, three and only three persons, as we have always come to believe that He is, but the God that He has revealed to us in scripture – the God of SEVEN SPIRITS.” Truly, she teaches that the Father (male Spirit), the created Holy Spirit (The Father's Wife Spirit) and the Son of Them, Jesus Christ, are but three of His seven Spirits. I'm shaking my head about now...how about you?

  • I may have to write another hub on the 'gender' of The Holy Spirit - but let me say this: God is Spirit (John 4:24), which is genderless - pneuma. The LORD is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17) and Jesus Christ is LORD (2 Cor 4:5; 12:3). Ruach (Hebrew) may be a 'feminine' word, but that doesn't mean we attribute a gender to the Holy Spirit, to God. God has both male and female attributes (such as Wisdom in Prov 1:20) and for this reason He is called "El Shadday", The Almighty, exemplified in such passages as Mat 23:37: "How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling." Enough on that subject...

I never know WHAT the LORD would have me study or write on next, but at this time I have been compelled to take on the task. In order to find out who or what the seven spirits of God ARE, we have to first accept what Revelation clearly states they are: the seven lamps of fire, seven horns and seven eyes of the Lamb found in Rev 4:6 and 5:6. Truly, the Bible interprets these for us! Likewise, I wanted to know more about the seven stars He holds in His right hand (Rev 1:20; 3:1). I sure learned a lot and I'd like to share my discoveries with you!

To begin, we are going to read the only four verses in the Bible that tell us about “the seven spirits of God" found in the Book of Revelation:

Rev 1:4 “John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His Throne…”

Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: 'I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.”

Rev 4:5 “Out from the Throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the Throne, which are the seven spirits of God

Rev 5:6 “And I saw in the midst of the Throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.”

Based on these passages, we must conclude that the seven spirits of God are:

  1. Before His Throne
  2. He has (holds/possesses) them, just as He holds the seven stars in His right hand (Rev 1:20)
  3. The seven lamps of fire, which burn before His Throne ARE the seven spirits of God
  4. The seven horns and seven eyes ARE the seven spirits of God, who are sent out into all the earth.

STARS

We can start out with Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: 'I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.”

Who are the stars? The Bible tells us in Rev 1:20: “The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches.”

Notice that the letters written to the seven churches begin with:

Rev 2:1 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:”
Rev 2:8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:”
Rev 2:12 “To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:”
Rev 2:18 “To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:”
Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write:”
Rev 3:7 “To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:”
Rev 3:14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:”

There is some debate as to whether these ‘angels’ are pastors or celestial beings. Frankly, it could mean BOTH, for celestial angels that receive and read letters are most likely in human form ~ messengers to the seven churches. Angels appear to have a 'territory' or 'people' they watch over. This would then apply to each church having its own assigned angel. Consider the following biblical evidence for this found in Daniel 10:13, 20-21:

  • The angel sent to answer Daniel’s prayer regarding the king’s dream said, “But the prince of the kingdom of Persia [modern-day Iran] was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.” Note that Michael is the Prince of Israel (Daniel 12:1).
  • “Then he said, ‘Do you understand why I came to you? But I shall now return to fight against the prince of Persia; so I am going forth, and behold, the prince of Greece is about to come. However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.” (Daniel was a Jew)

In the Old Testament, the word angel is the Hebrew word malak (mal-awk'); from an unused root mean. to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; spec. of God, i.e. an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher):-ambassador, angel, king, messenger.

In the New Testament, the word angel is the Greek word aggelos (ang'-el-os); to bring tidings; a messenger; esp. an "angel", by implication a pastor:-angel, messenger.

Just because the word ‘pastor’ is implied at times when the word ‘angel’ is used, this does NOT mean all earthly pastors are angels of the LORD. There’s yet another faction existing today where pastors claim they are angels and no one is to stand up against their authority. We are not angels; we will JUDGE the angels (1 Cor 6:3) and we will be ‘like the angels in heaven’ (Mat 22:30), when it comes to marriage.

Between Rev 4 and 8, we don’t see another set of seven angels mentioned until 8:2 “And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.”

Now, IF these angels are in the right hand of the LORD (Rev 1:20), yet are the seven angles of the seven churches, do THEY stand before the Throne? They ARE messengers to the churches, after all. Consider the following verse:

  • Mat 18:10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.”

If children have angels that are before the LORD, surely the angels of the seven churches do also! If these seven angels are those of the seven churches, THEY are the ones who will sound the seven trumpets of the seventh and final seal. Awesome stuff!!

SEVEN LAMPS/LAMPSTANDS

Rev 4:5 “Out from the Throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the Throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.”

In order to understand this vision, we need to go back to the cross-reference found in Zech 4:2 “He asked me, ‘What do you see?’ I answered, ‘I see a solid gold lampstand [4501 menorah] with a bowl at the top and seven lamps [5216 ner] on it, with seven channels to the lamps.”

What is being described above is that of the golden menorah found in Ex 25:31-40. In Ex 27:20-21 we read of the menorah “You shall charge the sons of Israel, that they bring you clear oil of beaten olives for the light, to make a lamp burn continually. In the tent of meeting, outside the veil which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall keep it in order from evening to morning before the LORD; it shall be a perpetual statute throughout their generations for the sons of Israel.”

In this picture we see ‘lamps’ and a ‘lampstand’. The seven spirits of God are lamps, obviously on a single menorah, which is called a lampstand. I wanted to study the difference between these words and find the Greek and Hebrew equivalents, which Rev 4:5 and Zech 4:2 confirmed:

Lamps is the Greek word 2985 lampás – a hand-held "torch" (sometimes merely a clay vessel); a lamp that uses a wick saturated with oil.

Its Hebrew equivalent is 5216 ner – candle, lamp, light; Or nir {neer}; also neyr {nare}; or ner {nare}; or (feminine) nerah {nay-raw'}; from a primitive root (see niyr; nuwr) properly, meaning to glisten; a lamp (i.e. The burner) or light (literally or figuratively) -- candle, lamp, light.

Lampstands is the Greek word 3087 luchnia - candlestick. From luchnos; a lamp-stand (literally or figuratively) -- candlestick.

Its Hebrew equivalent is 4501 menorah - candlestick Or mnorah {men-o-raw'}; feminine of manowr (in the original sense of niyr); a chandelier -- candlestick.

Now, let’s go back and find out who the lampstands (menorahs) are. Just as Rev 1:20 told us who the seven stars were, it tells us “the seven lampstands are the seven churches.” There are seven lamps on One Lampstand before the Throne, yet each of the seven earthly churches are called lampstands, made up of seven lamps (i.e. a clay vessel – you and I).

Speaking of you and I, are believers called 'spirits from God' in the Bible? Let's observe the following passages:

  • 1 John 4:1 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God"

LAMPS OF FIRE

In Rev 4:5 these seven lamps before the Throne were lamps of FIRE.The Greek word for fire is 4442 pur - fire; the heat of the sun, lightning; fig: strife, trials; the eternal fire. In order to understand what this FIRE is, let’s go to the Day of Pentecost in Acts 2:3 “And there appeared to them tongues as of fire [4442] distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.” This IS the Fire of the Holy Spirit, amen! Now, one could attempt to say this fire is called “themselves” and “they rested on each one”, but how many were in that upper room? Acts 1:16 puts the number of disciples (KJV) at 120!

Ponder this: If you struck a flame and lighted several candlesticks with it, is it not the same flame that lights them all? AMEN!!

A fire cannot burn unless there is FUEL. In Exodus 27:20 we read about how the menorah was kept burning continually: “…bring clear oil of beaten olives for the light, to make a lamp burn continually.” This reminded me of the parable of the ten virgins; five, of course, were wise and the other five were foolish. We mustn’t think the ten virgins represent ten churches (or even five); rather, they are individual believers (lamps) that make up the seven churches (lampstands) that ultimately make up the One Church (the Menorah before the Throne). It’s exciting to see that the word ‘lamp’ in this parable is exactly the same word as the lamps of fire burning before the Throne”!

  • Mat 25:1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps [G 2985] and went out to meet the Bridegroom.” Verse 10 speaks of them going to buy the OIL.

Likewise, remember the menorah was made of gold? The virgins (Bride) were to BUY the GOLD. How do we do this?

  • Rev 3:18 (written to the Church of Laodicea) “I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire [4442]” Oh ~ we must be refined by God’s holy fire, amen.

Why the refining? It is the trials/testing of God that prove our FAITH:

  • 1 Pet 1:7 “so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire [4442], may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

SEVEN HORNS

This part gets REALLY FASCINATING!

Rev 5:6 tells us “And I saw in the midst of the Throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.”

Horns. The Greek definition is 2768 Keras - (a) a horn, (b) a horn-like projection at the corner of an altar, (c) a horn as a symbol of power; properly, an animal horn; (figuratively) an instrument of power, i.e. that overcomes by displaying overpowering strength.

  • Let's ponder Acts 1:8 "you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you" and Rev 21:7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son."

What interpretation is given in the Book of Revelation for ‘horns’? In Rev 12:3 we are warned about “the beast with seven heads, ten horns [2768] and 10 crowns. Rev 17:12 tells us the horns are kings who have not yet received a kingdom.

Does this interpretation of 'horns' also apply to the seven horns in John’s vision of the Lamb? In the opposite vernacular, could it be the seven 'horns' of the Lamb represent the seven churches who have not yet received the kingdom? Let’s compare with Daniel’s vision in Chapter 7:21-22: “As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them, until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.” This is yet a future event.

This next discovery shocked me. I looked up the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek word for ‘horn’ and thought it might be the word 7782 shophar, but it is NOT. That would be the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek word 4536 salpigx for 'trumpet', not 'horn'.

Is it any surprise it is the Hebrew word 7162 qeren - From qaran (pronounced kaw-ran'); a horn (as projecting); by implication, a flask, cornet; by resembl. An elephant's tooth (i.e. Ivory), a corner (of the altar), a peak (of a mountain), a ray (of light); figuratively, power -- X hill, horn.

Kaw-ran’ (Qur’an) could just be a coincidence – given. However, I wanted to know about the False Prophet of Revelation, who has two horns [2768] like a lamb (Jesus) and speaks as a dragon (Satan). I found a very interesting article by endtimeschristianity.com which states,

In Revelation 13:11 we read as follows: ‘And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spake as a dragon.’ What is this two-horned governing beast? Among the 6,666 verses of the Koran (Qur'an), the sacred book of Islam, are found the words Dhul-Qarnayn, which literally means He of the two horns, in verses 18:83 to 18:98. It tells the story of the two-horned one who will take the religion of Islam from the East to the people of the utmost West. It will then be determined by the two-horned one whether to show kindness to the people or to punish them, depending on whether or not they will accept Islam.”

We could also wonder about the two horns of Islam, as we consider the seven horns of Christ. If horns are 'kings that have not yet received a kingdom' aka ‘churches’, then what are the two kingdoms of Islam? It could represent Elam (Medo-Persia, or Iran), even Sunni and Shiite. Let’s go back to Daniel’s prophecy about this beast in Chapter 8:3-4 “Then I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, a ram which had two horns was standing in front of the canal. Now the two horns were long, but one was longer than the other, with the longer one coming up last. I saw the ram butting westward, northward, and southward, and no other beasts could stand before him nor was there anyone to rescue from his power, but he did as he pleased and magnified himself.” It’s obvious this ‘ram’ is from the East because he butts westward, northward and southward – not eastward.

Bottom line is, there are TWO horns of the False Prophet and SEVEN horns of the Lamb. These seven ARE the seven churches of Revelation, which Rev 5:6 tells us “ARE the seven spirits of God.” Are we yet sure? Let’s go on to the final portion regarding the seven eyes.

Interpreted 666
Interpreted 666

SEVEN EYES

Again, Rev 5:6 tells us “And I saw in the midst of the Throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, [3788 – the mind’s eye] which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.”

  • Did Jesus not command us to "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature”? Amen! (Mark 16:15)

I searched the scriptures for other uses of the phrase ‘seven eyes’ and found Zech 3:9: “For behold, the stone that I have set before Joshua; on one stone are seven eyes. Behold, I will engrave an inscription on it,' declares the LORD of hosts, 'and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.”

Earlier, we read in Zech 4:2 “He asked me, ‘What do you see?’ I answered, ‘I see a solid gold lampstand [4501 menorah] with a bowl at the top and seven lamps [5216 ner] on it, with seven channels to the lamps”, which brings us back to our main subject.

Eight verses later, we read:

Zech 4:10 “For who has despised the day of small things? But these seven [of vs. 2] will be glad when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel-- these are the eyes of the LORD which range to and fro throughout the earth."

Zechariah tells us the CONTEXT of the seven lamps and the seven eyes.

I wanted to know more about the ‘stone’ in Zech 3:9, for Jesus is called the ‘Rock’. In John’s vision, it is Jesus, the Lamb, who has the seven eyes. Joyfully, this ‘stone’ IS the Hebrew word 68 eben cornerstone, to build, a stone, diverse weights; From the root of banah through the meaning to build; a stone -- + carbuncle, + mason, + plummet, (chalk-, hail-, head-, sling-) stone(-ny), (divers) weight(-s).

Isaiah 28:16 also uses this word for ‘stone’: “Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, ‘Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone [68], a tested stone [68], A costly cornerstone for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed.” This same passage is quoted by Peter in 1 Pet 2:6, amen! The Greek word is therefore, 3037 lithos - a stone; met: of Jesus as the chief stone in a building. And truly, the saints make up that building, the New Jerusalem (Rev 21)!

CONCLUSION

After this study, I still had the thought, ‘The seven churches of Asia are greeted by "Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before His Throne…”. 1 John 4:1 came to mind again, that believers ARE called 'spirits from God'. However, if the seven churches (saints) ARE the seven spirits of God, how would we understand that they also receive a greeting from the seven spirits of God? This could mean they, the seven earthly menorahs are being greeted by the glorified Church (the single Menorah, the saints that have gone before), or by the seven earthly churches as a whole. It appears that the earthly churches (lamps of fire on the lampstands) ARE the seven spirits of God, who ARE the seven horns (kings) that are sent out into all the earth (Rev 5:6) and ARE the seven eyes that range to and fro throughout the earth (Zech 4:10).

Other than the factious ‘new revelation’ of Monica Dennington, I’ve heard teachings that insinuate the seven spirits of God are found in Isaiah 11:12: the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD—(of course, there are only six here). Are these supposed to be separated from the Spirit of the LORD? No. He is the Giver of these attributes. Wisdom and knowledge are two gifts of the Spirit, so I counted the gifts in 1 Cor 12:8-10 - there are nine. I decided to count the fruit of the Spirit found in Gal 5:22-23 - nine again. There's the five-fold ministry…Even if we consider all the ‘names of God’ (i.e. Yehovah Yireh, Yehovah Rapha, Yehovah Nissi, etc…), there are way more than seven.

Finally, I've heard "the seven spirits of God" is speaking of the fullness of the Holy Spirit. Seven symbolizes fullness/completion and when it comes to the seven churches, the glorified Church (Menorah) before the Throne is just that...perfection/completion. Rather than guess at what the 'seven spirits of God' are or how to interpret them, I would rather take what is clearly stated in Rev 4:5 and 5:6 - passages that make NO mention of spiritual attributes or gifts.

I believe we can conclude that the seven spirits of God are NOT the seven stars (angels), mainly because Revelation 1:20 separates them:

  • "As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars ARE the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands ARE the seven churches."

On the other hand, the seven spirits of God ARE the seven lamps of fire (people filled with the Holy Spirit), the seven horns (kings that have yet to receive the kingdom) and the seven eyes (those who see) on the Cornerstone (Christ). The seven angels oversee and are the celestial messengers to the seven earthly churches. The seven churches (lampstands) make up the perfected Church (the glorified Menorah before the Throne), who is the Wife, the Bride of Christ. This glorified Menorah may very well represent the saints who’ve gone before. We, as lamps of the seven earthly lampstands, are filled with His oil and burn with the Fire of His Spirit, commissioned to go out into all the earth to spread the gospel! Jesus keeps our wicks trimmed, lamps filled and fire continually burning.

  • Jesus said, "YOU are the light of the world. A City set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." (Mat 5:14-16)

This study may even give new ‘light’ in understanding Revelation 11:1-13, which calls the two final witnesses “two lampstands”!! I cover this in my hub I Will Keep You From The Hour of Testing. To summarize, the TWO witnesses are also called the TWO olive trees (yet there are NOT FOUR witnesses). If you read Hebrews 11, the olive tree represents spiritual Israel, made up of natural Israel (those who accept Jesus Christ as LORD and Savior) and those not of natural Israel that are grafted in. The number TWO, when it comes to witnesses, represents establishment of the Truth. Just look here (biblos.com) where I've searched the phrase "two witnesses" and let His Light shine upon your understanding!

Oh, the Word of God is full of awesome and living teaching. I’m going to ponder these things until the next ‘spark’ to write whatever the LORD leads me to discover and share with you. BLESSINGS in the NAME of our LORD, Jesus Christ.

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101 comments

christ4ever profile image

christ4ever 4 years ago from a life in sin saved by the Lord's grace - we are blessed with the ministry in Florida & Georgia

Very nicely done my dear, as you pour heart and soul into this well-researched piece as usual. You provide excellent concordance references to the Septuagint Greek and Hebrew translations.

I've linked back to you from "The 7 DIVINE AGES of GOD and the SEVENFOLD SPIRIT of the LORD", as this article goes into much better detail about that particular aspect of the Spirit of the Lord.

Also liked the connection with the parable of the Ten Virgins (one of my favorites) which reminds us in these days, to be ever prepared for the return of our Lord and His coming Kingdom.

Be blessed always... Rev.Ted


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you so much, christ4ever (Rev. Ted)!! Yes, I must say that I didn't know how much there would be on this subject, since there are only four verses in Revelation that pertain to the seven spirits of God ~ boy, was I mistaken! I LOVE looking into the Hebrew and Greek because it is THERE we find the accurate interpretation, rather than just relying on the English translation.

I appreciated your hub and the section on the seven ages, though some teach the Church has seven ages, which I'm not sure I agree with. The menorah is one piece made up of all seven churches and I believe each of us is a part of one of these churches, even today. I relate most with the church of Ephesus in Rev 2, when it comes to my calling: "I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary." My goal, then, is not to 'leave my first LOVE' and my prayer is to remain faithful to Him first and foremost, that THAT love be my motivation in all things.

Yes, the Virgin (the Bride) made it so clear. We are those lamps, praise God! He is the oil and the fire that is to be kept burning continually. May we NEVER run out of oil, whereby our fire will be snuffed out. "This little light of mine ~ I'm gonna let it shine" and I will not "hide it under a bush, oh no!" Keep on letting His Light shine, "let it shine, let it shine, let it shine!"

Thank you for linking my hub to yours ~ I have also linked yours to mine! God bless you as well, bother. I love you dearly.


christ4ever profile image

christ4ever 4 years ago from a life in sin saved by the Lord's grace - we are blessed with the ministry in Florida & Georgia

Oh I forgot to add, that yes I do agree and the comparison with the Menorah is an excellent example *(P.S. -also look for that photo I sent you in FaceBook)... I've always personally felt that the "Seven Churches" (even though theologically they are taught as separate eras of the 'Church Age') I can see where each has been added to one another over the age. The end result being our current modern times having the attributes of ALL seven ("all the above", both good and bad). The Menorah and lamps are also excellent examples of the combined spirit in righteousness as well. Just another of the many interesting ways to view this representation of the Spirit of the Lord. In His peace always... Rev.Ted


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

I appreciate the photo, Rev Ted! I added it to my 'Conclusion' section of the hub! Awesome!! Thank you again!! I'd hate to think the only church of this 'age' is that of Laodicea, because they receive NO commendation at all, as do the other churches. I can see it...but, I'm not a part of it. I'm HOT and so are YOU, not LUKEWARM or COLD. Halleluyah!!!


Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews 4 years ago from NORTH YORK,ONTARIO,CANADA

Judah's Daughter: Dear Sister,This is a brilliant study for all who seek to try to understand better the scriptures in REVELATION. Understanding or trying to understand Jesus's revelation to John is key to unlocking God's futuristic plans for this world and for mankind. I thank you for helping us to have this glimpse this glimmer of God's truth, as even Jesus Parables were not as difficult to understand in the gospels, as this one book in the entire bible is.

God bless you dear sister.


christ4ever profile image

christ4ever 4 years ago from a life in sin saved by the Lord's grace - we are blessed with the ministry in Florida & Georgia

Thought you'd like the photo... especially since it also shows the Lamb and 'Lion of Judah'. Thanks also for the mention and backlink. It was not necessary to reciprocate but is a much appreciated blessing none-the-less. Stay the course as always my dear... Shalom aleichem, maranatha!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi brother Dave! Bless your heart and thank you for the blessing! Yes, I don't often attempt to interpret Revelation, but in this case, I think we have a pretty good result, at least better than a best guess...I hope, anyhow. I learned a lot from this study and I'm so thankful I have readers that will patiently read through all these things and I pray take these things and ponder them in their hearts. God bless you abundantly!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

I did like the photo very much, brother Ted. However, I went back to my original one because of the seven flames showing separately from the flames of the menorah, which may have been an amplification ~ yet, I don't want it to appear as though the seven spirits of God are separate from those lamps that bear the light!! Hallelujah! I love the Lion and Lamb ~ our God reigns!!! Praying for each other as we go, brother!


christ4ever profile image

christ4ever 4 years ago from a life in sin saved by the Lord's grace - we are blessed with the ministry in Florida & Georgia

Oh yes absolutely! (especially for this article) Just knew you'd like the photo anyway for the other obvious reasons. *If you come across a higher resolution (or larger) copy of the same out there anywhere, let me know. :)


wba108@yahoo.com profile image

wba108@yahoo.com 4 years ago from upstate, NY

Wow this is confusing! I think this can only be fully understood by revelation. I was taught that the seven Spirit's of God are found in Isaiah 11:1-2 and that the middle candle represents the Spirit of God and the other 6 candles describe the Spirit of God in His fullness.

I read this from an article in white dove ministries,

"Gods "Sevenfold Spirit" is a wonderful mystery to highlight the functioning of the Lord's Spirit in the earth. It is not in contradiction to the triune nature of God but a perfect and complete expression of His Spirit that demonstrates the fullness of His character and power. The Spirit of the Lord doesn't have wisdom and revelation, counsel and might, knowledge and reverential awe; He IS all of these."

God Bless


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hello, wba108 – so far, you’re the only one claiming this study is confusing. I would like to discuss your confusion, as it seems to be prefaced by “I was taught that the seven spirits of God are found in Isaiah 11:1-2.” That may be the source of your confusion. I was not taught anything about the seven spirits of God, so I had no ‘indoctrination’ to overcome here. I just took the Word for what it says. Revelation clearly states what the seven spirits of God ARE - (Rev 4:5) they ARE the “seven lamps of fire burning before the Throne, which are the seven spirits of God” and (Rev 5:6) “seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.”

Believers are the lamps, which the Word confirms (Mat 25:1). The holders of those lamps are the lampstands, which are clearly interpreted as the seven churches (Rev 1:20). The FIRE is the Fire of the Holy Spirit – One Flame that lights all the lamps (Acts 2:3). Horns are absolutely interpreted as kings (Rev 17:12) and we are made a kingdom of priests (Rev 5:10). Eyes are obviously those who ‘see’, embedded upon the Cornerstone (Christ) which the saints are said not be blind, but ‘see’ (John 9:25). Consider the prophets and ‘seers’ of God (2 Kings 17:13; Isa 30:10, etc.) and Jesus commanded us to go into all the world (Mark 16:15). That is not confusing.

NOWHERE does Revelation state the seven spirits of God ARE: wisdom, revelation, counsel, might, knowledge and the fear of the LORD (six). You then stated, “The Spirit of the Lord doesn’t have wisdom and revelation, counsel and might, knowledge and reverential awe; He IS all of these.” Of course He is! So how do you divide HIM into SEVEN? He is the giver of all these gifts (1 Cor 12:8-10 - nine gifts) and vs. 4 clearly reminds us, “Now there are diversities of gifts, but the SAME Spirit.” If you consider the Spirit of the LORD a separate spirit from the others in Isa 11:1-2, in order to 'make' SEVEN, then THAT is confusing to me...

God bless you as well ~ I appreciate you coming by to read and comment. Thank you.


wayne92587 4 years ago

fervor, zeal, ardor. ire, fury, wrath, rage.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

wayne92587 - you are now claiming the seven spirits of God are these seven emotions? Where is your biblical exegesis? I have to say I am disappointed so many are entrenched in traditional doctrines and even make up their own, rather than accepting what the Word of God interprets for us, which is glorious!...shaking my head.


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Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA

Great conclusion that is very helpful! And I'd not heard some of those other alternate interpretations--oh my! Currently I'm thinking that the two witnesses represent Jew and Gentile believers.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi sister Dee! Wonderful to hear from you! I'm inclined to agree ~ the two olive trees (branches to the right and left of the Menorah/Lampstand) and the two lampstands (Churches) are part of the same Menorah ~ Covenant 'Israel', made up of 'Abraham's offspring' (Rom 4:16; 9:8).

There are only two final witnesses in Revelation, yet they are called the two olive trees AND the two lampstands. If we were to separate them, there would be four witnesses. We can compare this to the 'seven spirits of God' who ARE the seven lamps of fire, also the seven horns, also the seven eyes ~ Amen!

The only clear answer given as to who the two olive trees (branches) are is found in Zech 4:12-14:

"Again I asked him, 'What are these two olive branches beside the two gold pipes that pour out golden oil?'

He replied, 'Do you not know what these are?'

'No, my Lord,' I said.

So He said, 'These are the two who are anointed to serve the Lord of all the earth.'”

Truly, the 'Church' did not exist in those days ~ only God's Covenant people (olive tree), whereby the Church (lampstand) is grafted in. If we compare the cutting off of natural olive branches in Rom 11 to the removal of a lampstand in Rev 2:5, we can truly see 'One Covenant People' with the same warning. Somehow, there will be two olive trees/lampstands ministering powerfully during that 1260 days.

I sometimes wonder if the two 'olive branches/trees' are two actual, anointed men (witnesses) that lead and minister to the two lampstands (churches) remaining during the tribulation period. If they are Enoch and Elijah (both did not see death) or Moses and Elijah (mount of transfiguration), that would be awesome! I still ponder the fact Jesus said John the Bapist WAS Elijah (Mal 4:5; Mat 11:14). Of course, he didn't call fire down from heaven, as prophesied in Revelation ~~ (mysteries continue)...

I want to study more on the olive trees...not sure we can absolutely figure this out ~~~~ yet :-) God's anointing oil be upon you and fill you to overflow, sister. May His Light shine brightly in you, in me, in all who love and serve Him! Blessings!!


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Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA

JD, your response, "There are only two final witnesses in Revelation, yet they are called the two olive trees AND the two lampstands," is wonderful confirmation. Yes, Zechariah's was pre-church, so his two olive tree vision referred to faithful Israelites, but I think too it foretold the two types of sheep; Jewish and Gentile believers. (I am concluding that in Revelation, the believers/saints, are represented a number of ways--the two witnesses being one.) Great to get your confirming response!


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

It's beautiful to be one body in Christ, isn't it sister Dee? The reason I consider the two 'olive trees' to perhaps be two, literal men, is because they do the miracles of Moses and Elijah, are killed by the beast that comes up from the abyss (Antichrist), their bodies lay in the streets of Jerusalem for 3.5 days and they are then resurrected from the dead and ascend to heaven.

I believe this event may indeed be the same as the 'rapture of the Church'. The 'rapture' account declares that some of us will not sleep (die), but will be changed as we are caught up to meet the LORD in the air. For this reason, I can't completely conclude that the two lampstands are these two men (olive trees), but are witnesses in their quest, nonetheless. :-) Thoughts?


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Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA

Hi, JD! You know what, I've come to conclude there is no rapture, except of the martyrs during the tribulation, one-by-one as they are killed. My thoughts on the two witnesses that you summarize here from Revelation 11, is that this is a description of what the martyrs experience during the 3.5 yrs the beast is allowed to war against the saints. I'm basing this on how biblical literature and the visions in them tell and foretell about the same events in various different ways, or using various different lenses to see them through. This has gradually grown on me the more I study all this.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi sister Dee, you said, "You know what, I've come to conclude there is no rapture, except of the martyrs during the tribulation, one-by-one as they are killed." Here, you are talking about those who have died.

I believe in a literal 'rapture' of LIVING bodies (changed from corruptible to incorruptible), as well as the 'resurrection' of bodies that have died, just as Jesus was literally resurrected from the dead. 'Rapture' (catching up) and 'Resurrection' (rising from the dead) are not the same, though appear to happen at the same time (1 Thes 4:16), the time of the 'first resurrection' (Rev 20:5) ~ at the last trump. As Rev 20:5 shows, there is yet a second 'resurrection' of the unbelieving dead, after the millennial reign.

If you study the word 'caught up' when Paul describes the man who was 'caught up to the third heaven' (Paradise) in 2 Cor 12:2-4 and the word for 'caught up' in 1 Thes 4:17, we can see this is a literal 'catching up' into the air. Truly, our souls go to be with the LORD upon physical death; therefore, those who are alive do "not precede those who have fallen asleep" (1 Thes 4:15), so I am open to that train of thought when it comes to the 'rapture' of souls, but not of the 'resurrection' of the dead.

I hope you will stay open to the subject of the 'rapture' of the LIVING saints of the Church. It is yet to come at the appointed time...just as there is an appointed time for the two 'resurrections'. God luv ya! I luv ya, too!!


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Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA

Right, Paul explains a 'catching up' but into the air, not into heaven. This is of our bodies. Agreed, souls go to heaven. But in 2 Cor 12:2-4, Paul says he doesn't know if it was also his body, or just his souls. The resurrection of the dead in Revelation 20, is of the bodies of the martyrs whose souls, until that time, are under the alter in heaven (Rev 6, seal #5). The catching up of the saints still living is their souls and also their bodies (which become transformed) to meet Christ in the air when he comes, on His way to Armageddon--becoming part of His army on white horses (Rev 19:14). Once the beast is defeated and Satan is bound, then there is the resurrection of the martyrs' bodies (#1) and then the resurrection (#2) of the dead after the 1000 yrs to be judged at the great white throne. Thus, my current understanding. Love you, too, sis!

On the "rapture": The Rapture Doctrine was not taught in the Church until the 19th century. In 1830 there was a prophecy by Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow proclaiming that the Church need not fear the tribulation because it would be raptured prior to it. This prophecy became a worldwide theory promoted by Edward Irving and followed by J N Darby of the Plymouth Brethren. The teaching is that in effect there are two-second comings, the secret Rapture of the Church followed by Jesus’ return seven years later. C I Scofield propagated this doctrine by adding notes on the subject to his Reference Bible.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Sister Dee, you stated, “Paul explains a 'catching up' but into the air, not into heaven.” I know you read my hub “In My Father’s House Are Many Mansions”, the last section of which covers the location of ‘The Tree of Life’. It is not only in the ‘Paradise of God’ (Rev 2:7), but in the New Jerusalem, which comes down from HEAVEN to the New Earth (Rev 21:2; Rev 22:1-2, 14). Paul told us that ‘Paradise’ is in ‘the third heaven’, and if this man was ‘caught up’ to the third heaven (Paradise), so shall we be ‘caught up’ to the third heaven where we shall ever be with the LORD (1 Thes 4:17). That is our heavenly home. This is where the soul of the thief on the cross went to be with the LORD that day at Calvary, while his body returned to the earth awaiting the first resurrection.

Regarding the ‘catching up’, you said “this is of our bodies, agreed.” To clarify, the ‘rapture’ will be of the living; the ‘resurrection’ will be of those who died. Yes, they will also be ‘caught up’ to meet the LORD in the air. Again, there is a difference between ‘rapture’ and ‘resurrection’ when it comes to the living saints of God at that time. Enoch and Elijah were ‘raptured’ because they never died. Jesus died and was resurrected after three days and ascended, just as the two final witnesses will be killed, resurrected and ascend (Rev 11:11). You are correct that “The catching up of the saints still living is their souls and also their bodies (which become transformed) to meet Christ in the air when He comes.”

While I believe the rapture occurs at the same time the two witnesses are resurrected ~ and all ascend (caught up), there remains the fall of Babylon before the LORD returns with the “armies of heaven” (Ref Rev 16:15-21). The armies may be dressed in white robes, but this does not necessarily mean all the saints of heaven are following Him to fight this battle (Rev 19:14). These could be His angels. So, I don’t believe these two events happen at the same time. Again, we see the LORD coming in the same manner He left (Acts 1:11), which was not on a white horse with armies. The saints await the ‘second coming’, for the ‘third coming’ of Christ is for war and pre-millennial judgment of the Antichrist, False Prophet and the Dragon. We agree with what you stated, “Once the beast is defeated and Satan is bound, then there is the resurrection of the martyrs' bodies (#1) and then the resurrection (#2) of the dead after the 1000 yrs to be judged at the great white throne.” Of course, the first resurrection is of all believers, martyred or not.

The false teaching of the churches regarding the ‘rapture’ is not so much that the ‘rapture’ will occur, but the timing of it. The Bible doesn’t tell us we will be out of here before the Tribulation, at least not in my Bible. So, your last paragraph exposes the indoctrinated timing, rather than denying the rapture will occur. I say, reject the timing doctrine, but don’t reject the Truth of the rapture itself! God bless you always.


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Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA

Very interesting reply, JD. You have me thinking, but at the same time I do not see the Bible saying there is a third coming of Christ. I think it says there is a second coming, both for His saints and for war to complete the judgment of the antichrist kingdom. ...And God bless and be with you, as well. :)


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Never stop studying, sister Dee, and I know you won't stop!! AMEN! I believe you read my hub "The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church"? Might be good to visit again ~ you know I love you bunches!!


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Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA

Yes, I've read and considered it for a number of weeks :). I very much appreciate this debate and thinking with you, dear sister.


wayne92587 4 years ago

Trubulation is the cause of the rapture; the rapture happening on an Individual basis, at times large groups of Individuals, over a period of Time


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Sister Dee ~ you are my precious sister ~ always!

wayne92587, once again, I must ask, "Where is your biblical exegesis?"


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Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA

Your prayers may have been answered, JD :). I discovered (or re-discovered) there are two harvests in Rev 14. The verbs for 'reap' in v15 and v18 are different. And so the harvest in v15-16 could refer to the harvest parable of the kingdom of God in Mark 4:26-29.


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Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA

I've now edited my hub "The Central Idea in Revelation's Tribulation Chapters" to reflect this discovery.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

That's AWESOME, sister Dee! YES, in Rev 14:15 the 'Reaper' is Jesus. In Mark 4:26-29 the 'Reaper' is the 'Farmer' (Jesus). Mark 4:29 is the cross-reference to Rev 14:15!! This first reaping is of the saints. In Rev 18, the 'reaper' is an angel and in this case, the fat grapes are thrown into the winepress of the wrath of Almighty God - their blood flows as high as horses' bridles. I'll be by to re-read your edits!! Bless your heart!!!


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

There are seven mentioned in Isaiah 11. Isaiah 11:1-And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: Who is this person that came forth out of the stem of Jesse, the Branch. Jesus. What shall rest upon Jesus, the Spirit of the Lord. Then you have the other six: the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

First, let me say what an undertaking subject / subjects you have took on to try to explain and teach. Prophecy and the symbols in the Bible which are in prophecy also are hard to understand by most people with some help which comes from the Holy Spirit and other teachers of the Word who have spent time in the Word of God.

Yes, the seven stars are angels over the seven churches as the Word reveals. Each one of these churches did have a protecting angel as you have mentioned. You mentioned some debate as to whether these ‘angels’ are pastors or celestial beings when the scripture is referring to the angel of each church as in Rev 2:1“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:” To the angel of each church could be referring to the pastor of each church. Pastors, prophets, apostles, teachers of the Word, and evangelists are all messengers of the Lord also. “Then spake Haggai, the Lord’s messenger, in the Lord’s message unto the people, saying, ‘I am with you,’ saith the Lord” (Haggai 1:13). Haggai was a prophet of the Lord and a messenger of God’s Word. Jesus, speaking of John the Baptist said, “This is he, of whom it is written, ‘Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee’” (Luke 7:27). From these verses we can see that men can be messengers of the Lord as well.

In instead of each angel being the messenger to each church it is Jesus who is addressing the pastor of each church. He tells the pastor that he is the One holding the seven stars in his right hand which are the seven angels. This means Jesus controls what the angels will do or not do, according to his will for each of the seven churches. Jesus tells the pastor he is the One who walks amongst the seven candlesticks, which are the seven churches. It is through the Holy Spirit that God and his son Jesus walks amongst the church then and now.

It is interesting how you brought out that possibility of these seven angels over these churches which do not exist anymore because they did at one time in Asia minor known as Turkey today could be the ones to sound the seven trumpets. It is very possible they could be given this different assignment by God. Yes, good stuff. I will come back to comment more on your hub because I love Bible prophecy and have study it for years, like 20 or more.

By the way there are seven spirits of God in Isaiah 11 and I will explain in my next comment and some other things in this hub. Keep learning because I can see in your writing that you do have an open heart to learn. The problem with some people is they stop growing because they don’t what to admit they could be wrong in the views of the scripture. I have been corrected many times by the Holy Spirit and by other teachers of the Word and never stop learning.


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

The seven Spirits of God: “And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots” (Isaiah 11:1). We know according to scripture that this verse is talking about Jesus because he was the stem of Jesse because Jesse had a son named David. “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth” (Jeremiah 23:5).

And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him (who? Jesus, that’s 1), the spirit of wisdom (2) and understanding (3), the spirit of counsel (4) and might (5), the spirit of knowledge (60 and of the fear of the Lord (7)” (Isaiah 11:2).

All of these rest upon Jesus and are before the throne because Jesus sits with the Father, and all things proceed from the Father through his Son. If you know Jesus Christ as your Savior, then the Spirit of the Lord is within you. If Jesus is within you, then you have the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord in you also. This fear means a great respect for and reverence toward God. As a believer, you can obtain the spirits of wisdom, understanding, counsel, might, and knowledge from the Lord by studying his Word, the Bible, and by asking him for these things to be in your life. An example of this is in James 1:5: “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”

Re 4:5 “there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God” (Rev. 4:5). Seven is God’s perfect number. He rested on the seventh day of creation, and we all will be at rest in the seventh millennium meaning also completion. A menorah is a seven bowl lamp stand of fire burning before the Lord and is part of the heavenly furniture. The seven spirits rest upon each lamp before the throne because the spirit is fire. The Holy Spirit is fire.

“And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth” (Rev. 5:6).

The Lamb slain was and is Jesus. The seven horns represent authority and dominion over the seven continents of the Earth. The seven spirits rest upon the Lamb and the seven eyes simply means Jesus sees everything going on in the earth on all seven continents. Everything is completed in the Lamb of God (Colossians 2:9-10). God is in control through Jesus Christ over the earth.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi voice of one (I think of John the Baptist - 'voice of one crying in the wilderness') ~ thank you for taking the time to read this hub thoroughly and comment with more in-depth thought on the subject at hand. I am glad to see your wheels turning, in that you also are open to learning. We seek that excellent teaching that comes by the Holy Spirit, amen.

The attributes found in Isaiah 11 are of the same Spirit of the LORD, rather than the Spirit of the LORD being separate from His attributes/gifts of wisdom and understanding, counsel and might, knowledge and fear of the LORD. Reference 1 Cor 12:8-10 (nine gifts) where vs. 4 clearly reminds us, “Now there are diversities of gifts, but the SAME Spirit.”

I do not believe, nor have I stated that the seven angels of the seven churches no longer exist. The pastors of the churches are messengers and shepherds. Obviously, each of these 'seven churches' of Revelation had multitudes of pastors within each 'one' (earthly menorah), all of which make up the 'one' Divine Menorah before the Throne. I am inclined to believe the seven angels of the seven churches are divine angels that watch over them and have watched over them from the beginning until the end, when they very well may be the ones to sound the trumpets of Revelation.

What seems to be neglected in our discussion is the interpretation of the seven lamps of fire, the seven horns and seven eyes, which Revelation defines as being the 'seven spirits of God'. It is absolute. Therefore, we must interpret the meaning of these things using scripture, not merely going with the traditional teaching of Isaiah 11. The lamps of fire, horns and eyes are not connected with Isaiah 11 in any way. That should keep us from just settling with that traditional teaching and yeilded to the teaching of the Holy Spirit through His own Word of Revelation, confirmed in Zechariah and Daniel, amen?

I thoroughly appreciate your commentary and sharing your thoughts. I have a lot of respect for those who study the Word and discuss the Word, think on it, dwell on it, and remain teachable ~ clay as should be moldable by the Potter's Spirit alone. God bless you!!!


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Voice of one, it appears you were writing to comment when I was responding to your previous comments. You are stating the same thing, which I have addressed. Your point, as I understand it, is that the Spirit of the Lord brings with Him all His attributes, both in the Lamb (Son of Man/Son of God) and believers that are indwelt by the Spirit of the LORD. We cannot separate the Spirit of the LORD from His attributes/gifts, of which there are nine listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10.

Our Sabbath rest is in Christ the minute we are born again…it is not a rest that only comes in the seventh millennium (the thousand-year reign). You stated, “The seven spirits rest upon each lamp before the throne because the spirit is fire. The Holy Spirit is fire.” The Holy Spirit is One Spirit that lights the seven lamps, which are you and I (the members of the Church/the earthly and heavenly Menorah). The seven horns and seven eyes are the seven churches amongst whom the LORD dwells amongst and ‘lights’, empowers, allows to reign/rule and to ‘see’.

Keeping this in mind, you stated, “The seven horns represent authority and dominion over the seven continents of the Earth.” True. You then stated, “The seven spirits rest upon the Lamb.” That’s only if you use Isaiah 11 as your interpretive passage. Revelation does not say the seven spirits rest upon the Lamb. The fire lights the seven lamps (born-again believers) that make up the earthly menorahs (churches), that make up the Divine Menorah (the Bride of Christ) before the Throne. You then went on to state, “the seven eyes simply means Jesus sees everything going on in the earth on all seven continents.” The seven eyes are on the Cornerstone (Jesus), and they align with the ‘seers’, the prophets and born-again believers who have ‘eyes to see’, based on the entirety of this study. We must not leave the Church out of this equation.

The Church is the Son of God, if you understand (interpret, rather than translate) what Jesus said in Revelation 21:7 “He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.”

For more understanding (interpretation) along this line, read Dan 7:13-14, which appears to be the Son of Man (Jesus) coming before the Ancient of Days (the Father) to receive the kingdom ~ yet, ‘Son of Man’ is interpreted by the angel as the saints of God in vs 18 “But the saints of the Highest One will receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, for all ages to come’”; vs. 22 “until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom” and vs. 27 “Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.’”

I happen to believe Jesus is God’s visible image; He is God Himself. Jesus said we would be His son and He would be our God, and I believe what He said. He became the last Adam, the Son of God, as we are made sons of God by faith in Him alone. His Spirit (the Spirit of God) dwells in us. I don’t believe there are three ‘persons’ in the ‘Godhead’, which is accurately translated ‘Deity’, but that there is only One Deity, God alone (Is 9:6; 44:24; Job 9:8; 33:4; Acts 20:28; [Rev 2:8; 22:13; Is 41:4; 44:6]…there’s just so many scriptures to validate the identity of the One, True God, our LORD (YaHoWsHua) Jesus Christ. If you have ears to hear and eyes to see, may this Truth be made manifest to you as it was to me. All glory to our LORD. Amen.


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

I never said you said that the seven churches no longer exist, I did. I was only suggesting since these churches no longer exist it is possible that the Father gave them another assignment since they don't have to watch over these churches anymore like blowing the 7 trumpets in Revelation. Like I said cool stuff. Though these don't exist, The principles written in these seven letters can apply to all churches and Christians down through the Church Age to the Rapture. The Spirit of the Lord who is the Holy Spirit does rest upon Jesus and is one of the seven. The nine gifts of the Holy Spirit are not the same as the Seven Spirits of God. The Seven Spirits of God are:

The Spirit of the Lord

The Spirit of Wisdom

The Spirit of Understanding

The Spirit of Counsel

The Spirit of Might

The Spirit of Knowledge

The Spirit of the Fear of the Lord

The nine gifts of the Spirit are:

Tongues that is messages of tongues

Inerpretation of tongues

Prophecy

Word of Wisdom

Word of Knowledge

Discerning of spirits

Gift of Faith

Gifts of healing

Workings of miracles

One set of scripture is talking about what Jesus has and you can have in him and the other set is talking about the Holy Spirit and once you receive him too and what he brings into your life also.

They are different.


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

Yes, I agree and know because I have the fire within me and understand what you are saying completely. But Isaiah is saying as he prophesied there is one coming that is Jesus the Word and the Spirit of the Lord will rest upon him and that my friend happened at his baptism by John when the he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him. He had the Spirit without measure. That is all I am saying because it is one of the seven and is in Christ and before the throne and for all to receive by faith as you have already said.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Voice of one, I misunderstood that you were talking about angels, not churches, as to whether they ceased to exist or not. Do you than acknowledge the angels of the seven churches did not cease to exist? If the churches ceased to exist, then the angels are not overseeing those churches any longer. If they are overseeing today’s churches, then we still have seven churches. I do not agree that the churches ceased to exist. I also do not hold to the traditional teaching that the seven churches represent seven church ‘ages’. The Church is complete (seven) as a whole. The earthly menorah (lampstand) is complete with seven lamps of fire. The divine Menorah (Lampstand) is complete with seven menorahs (churches) now glorified.

If the Spirit of the LORD manifested Himself in those six ways in Jesus, He does the same in us. We do not have seven Spirits of God within us. We have One Spirit and the attributes/gifts of Him, which is the evidence of being born again. You will notice wisdom and knowledge in both Isaiah 11 and 2 Cor 12. The gift of interpretation is also ‘understanding’. The Word and the Spirit are the same. Jesus is both the Word and the Spirit that dwells in us (John 5:38; Rom 8:9). He is the LORD (1 Cor 12:3) and the LORD is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17).

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit (God) (Luke 1:35) and in Him dwells the fullness of the Deity bodily (Col 2:9). Jesus did not ‘receive’ (indwelling of) the Holy Spirit at His baptism. The dove (the form of the invisible Holy Spirit) descended upon Him as the ‘sign’ to John the Baptist, as noted in John 1:33.

So, we know the seven spirits of God ARE the seven LAMPS of fire (believers anointed by the Holy Spirit); those lamps are not identified as attributes (wisdom, understanding, etc.). If what you are stating is truth, then on one lamp would be lit by the Spirit of the LORD; another lit by the spirit of wisdom; another lit by the spirit of understanding (interpretation); etc. etc. etc. Is the Spirit of the LORD separate from the spirit of wisdom and the others? Are the earthly menorahs of the Divine Menorah divided in this way? I cannot separate them. Revelation states the seven spirits of the God ARE not only the seven lamps of fire, but ARE the seven HORNS (kings); these kings are not identified as attributes. The seven spirits of the God ARE the seven EYES (seers); these prophets and those who have eyes to see are not identified as attributes. Yet, the lamps (individuals) that make up the Church (Menorah) possess all these attributes of the Spirit of the LORD, amen.

To simply agree that Isaiah 11 is separating God’s Spirit (the Spirit of the LORD) from the others is not in agreement that God is Spirit, the Holy Spirit and there is only One God = One Spirit (1 Cor 12:13; Phil 1:27). To split Him into three ‘persons’ is errored enough, but to split Him into ‘seven Spirits’ is heading down the wrong path. We, the members of the Church are called ‘spirits’ (1 John 4:2). We are the seven spirits of God commissioned to go out into all the earth. We are each anointed with His Spirit (the Fire); we are the lamps, the horns and the eyes. The Word is clear on this. I hope you will read again, and dwell on these things.


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

Yes, the church is here today because of Jesus and has not cease to exist. But there were seven actual physical buildings where people met to have services called the church in seven different towns in Asia minor. I don't believe those buildings and people are still there since this was a few hundred years ago. Now the church may exist in Turkey which is a Muslim country and I hope it does but I have never been there. Now those angels still do exist and I thought it was pretty cool about your thought of them blowing the sevem trumpets in Revelation which could allude to a different assignment by God. Now Isaiah prophesied about the Branch who is Jesus coming from the stem of Jesse to this earth as I have said already. The Spirit was upon him and he had the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD during his earthly ministry. Now in heaven those seven horns, lamps of fire, eyes are all symbolic of the one Holy Spirit and can only denote His fulness and power upon the Lamb and before the throne. And now yes that power works thru the church because of the blood of the lamb and the giving of the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost. There is One God, One Jesus, and One Holy Spirit and they work as one for the benefit of the church.Amen.


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

Voice of one, I misunderstood that you were talking about angels, not churches, as to whether they ceased to exist or not. Do you than acknowledge the angels of the seven churches did not cease to exist? (Right, the angels that overlook the seven churches in John’s day still exist. The seven churches in John’s day do not. I mean the actual buildings and people in each of these towns. They exist hundreds of years ago. I just thought it was cool that if these same seven angels would be the seven to blow the seven trumpets during the Tribulation Period as you indicated.)Cool stuff.

If the churches ceased to exist, then the angels are not overseeing those churches any longer. If they are overseeing today’s churches, then we still have seven churches. (No, we actually only have one body in Christ today which is the church). I do not agree that the churches ceased to exist. (Well those seven have unless they can live to be about 1800 years or more here on the earth)

I also do not hold to the traditional teaching that the seven churches represent seven church ‘ages’. The Church is complete (seven) as a whole. (Yes, seven does mean completion)

The earthly menorah (lampstand) is complete with seven lamps of fire. The divine Menorah (Lampstand) is complete with seven menorahs (churches) now glorified. (True)

If the Spirit of the LORD manifested Himself in those six ways in Jesus, He does the same in us. We do not have seven Spirits of God within us. We have One Spirit and the attributes/gifts of Him, which is the evidence of being born again. You will notice wisdom and knowledge in both Isaiah 11 and 2 Cor 12. The gift of interpretation is also ‘understanding’. The Word and the Spirit are the same. Jesus is both the Word and the Spirit that dwells in us (John 5:38; Rom 8:9). He is the LORD (1 Cor 12:3) and the LORD is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17).

(Now here is where you are getting confuse in what I am trying to tell you. I agree with you that Jesus did not receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit because he was the giver of the Holy Spirit when he went back to heaven after he arose from the grave. There are not seven or even nine different spirits of the Holy Spirit for he is one Holy Spirit. Please notice what Isaiah prophesied about the stem of Jesse the Branch who is Jesus. And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him and didn’t this happened and the spirit of wisdom, understanding, counsel, might, knowledge, and fear of the Lord. All these came upon him to help him with his earthly ministry because as you indicated and I agree there was no indwelling because the Holy Spirit had not been given yet. Now Jesus is in heaven and we know that there are more than seven titles applied to the Spirit. Since the Lamb has the 7 horns, 7 eyes, since we know there is but one Holy Spirit and since the Lamb is the symbol of Christ then the 7 lamps of fire, 7 horns, and 7 eyes are all symbolic of the one Holy Spirit and can only indicate His fullness and power upon the Lamb and before the throne. It is now through the precious Holy Spirit who does the work of the ministry of Christ Jesus here upon the earth. It started on the day of Pentecost with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of about 120 believers in Christ Jesus. Then the use of the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit came into effect upon the church and the world. There is one God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost and all three work together for the benefit of the church. (Praise to His Name!)

(Horns do represent authority and it is interesting that we do have seven continents on the earth. Ps 24:1-The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. 7 eyes, Pr 15:3 -The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. Col 2:9, 10- For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: (Complete authority). Everything is complete in the Lamb of God (Colossians 2:9-10). God is in control through Jesus Christ over the earth by His precious Holy Spirit.)

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit (God) (Luke 1:35) and in Him dwells the fullness of the Deity bodily (Col 2:9). Jesus did not ‘receive’ (indwelling of) the Holy Spirit at His baptism. The dove (the form of the invisible Holy Spirit) descended upon Him as the ‘sign’ to John the Baptist, as noted in John 1:33.

So, we know the seven spirits of God ARE the seven LAMPS of fire (believers anointed by the Holy Spirit); those lamps are not identified as attributes (wisdom, understanding, etc.). If what you are stating is truth, then on one lamp would be lit by the Spirit of the LORD; another lit by the spirit of wisdom; another lit by the spirit of understanding (interpretation); etc. etc. etc. Is the Spirit of the LORD separate from the spirit of wisdom and the others? Are the earthly menorahs of the Divine Menorah divided in this way? I cannot separate them. Revelation states the seven spirits of the God ARE not only the seven lamps of fire, but ARE the seven HORNS (kings); these kings are not identified as attributes. The seven spirits of the God ARE the seven EYES (seers); these prophets and those who have eyes to see are not identified as attributes. Yet, the lamps (individuals) that make up the Church (Menorah) possess all these attributes of the Spirit of the LORD, amen.

To simply agree that Isaiah 11 is separating God’s Spirit (the Spirit of the LORD) from the others is not in agreement that God is Spirit, the Holy Spirit and there is only One God = One Spirit (1 Cor 12:13; Phil 1:27). To split Him into three ‘persons’ is errored enough, but to split Him into ‘seven Spirits’ is heading down the wrong path. We, the members of the Church are called ‘spirits’ (1 John 4:2). We are the seven spirits of God commissioned to go out into all the earth. We are each anointed with His Spirit (the Fire); we are the lamps, the horns and the eyes. The Word is clear on this. I hope you will read again, and dwell on these things.


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

Your reference to Matthew 18: 10, is somewhat correct. Look at the whole chapter and you will discover that Jesus was talking to his disciples about receiving him and the kingdom as a child sitting a child in their midst as an example. Jesus speaking about the little ones is a reference to all believers because angels are ministering spirits sent forth from the father and the son to minister to them who shall be heirs of salvation (Hebrews 1:14).

Your reference to angels seemly to have a territory or people they watch over is correct. Yes, Michael is the Prince of Israel as the scriptures indicate.

As to your reference with Daniel 10:13, 20-21, I would like to add that Gabriel and Michael were fighting an evil prince angel / ruler over Persia. Yes this evil prince withstood Gabriel for 21 days until Michael came to help him so he could go to Daniel. “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Ephesians 6:12). Once he left Daniel, he went back to help Michael to defeat the prince of the kingdom of Persia to allow the evil prince of the Grecian Empire led by Alexander the Great who conquered the Persia Empire. Yes, interesting stuff. It was all by design to fulfill God’s prophetic picture.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

voice of one, I will respond to each of your comments above in order.

Initially the seven churches of Revelation were in the province of Asia, but just as the disciples were Galileans and Jesus Christ was from Nazareth, the Word of God and the Church has spread throughout the entire world. At that time, people didn’t even know our part of the world existed, nor that the world wasn’t flat…Just as we all came from our first parents, Adam and Eve, we who believe are born again of the Spirit, Jesus Christ being the first-born of the Spirit (literally). And, because we are born of the Spirit, the same attributes that were upon Him (Christ) are upon us.

It sounds like you picture Jesus (the Lamb), having seven lamps of fire, seven horns and seven eyes ‘upon Him’, standing before the Throne of the Father? Again, go back to Daniel 7 of the ‘Son of Man’ coming before the ‘Ancient of Days’ and what the angel says IS the interpretation of that vision. It doesn’t appear you ‘see’ the Menorah: the seven lamps of fire on the Lampstand before the Throne. Nor do you understand what the seven horns and seven eyes represent. The Church (the Menorah) is founded and stands upon Christ, the Rock, amen.

If there is One God (1) + One Jesus (1) + One Holy Spirit (1), and each is called God, then you believe in three Gods working together as One in unity = Trinity. I used to believe in the ‘Trinity’ before I understood it teaches the Father is not the Son, nor either the Holy Spirit. That is not Truth. I believe the One God is invisible Spirit (1), who manifested Himself (made Himself visible) in the flesh of the Son of God to shed His human, holy blood for us on the cross (same God), who is now the Holy Spirit living in us (same God). Reference the verses I shared with you before.

Though this is not the topic of this hub, I have many on the topic of Who God Is. The Greatest Commandment Jesus, as the Son of Man, quoted in Mark 12:29 is “Hear, O Israel the LORD our God is One LORD”. That word for One is Echad (H 259 in Strongs). In Deut 2:31 is it used as an adjective “one, a; — masculine singular ??”. Of the 943 times used in the Bible, echad indicates a single character 901 times. In the remaining instances when it is involved in describing a group effort, it still means one. You can look up such passages as Gen 2:21; 22:2; Ex 25:19; Lev 16:5 and Num 10:4. Even ‘Elohim’ (H 430 in the Strongs) refers to the Most High, His angels, magistrates and even we as ‘sons of the Most High’ (Ps 82:6; John 10:34). Israel NEVER split God into ‘persons’, even though they witnessed His Spirit as clouds and fire (Deut 1:33) and knowing He had appeared in the flesh to Abraham (Gen 18) – the two with Him were angels (Gen 19:1).

Blessings to you.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

voice of one, Okay, on the next comment you stated, “I agree with you that Jesus did not receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit because he was the giver of the Holy Spirit when he went back to heaven after he arose from the grave.” Then you later stated, “All these came upon him [Jesus] to help him with his earthly ministry because as you indicated and I agree there was no indwelling because the Holy Spirit had not been given yet.”

I do not agree that the Holy Spirit did NOT indwell the Son of Man (Son of God). The Holy Spirit conceived and indwelt the LORD, Jesus Christ from conception. Consider His 'teaching' of the teachers as a boy in Luke 2:41-52. Jesus actually breathed on the disciples to receive the Holy Spirit BEFORE He ascended and BEFORE the Day of Pentecost. John 20:22 “And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.”

You said, “There are not seven or even nine different spirits of the Holy Spirit for he is one Holy Spirit.” Then you believe the ‘seven spirits of God’ are One Spirit (as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One God)? Please clarify.

Again, as in my previous response, you are indicating the seven lamps, horns and eyes are the Holy Spirit, not the Church. The seven lamps are on the Lampstand, which Revelation interprets as the Church. They are lit by the fire of the Holy Spirit. Are you ignoring the interpretation of the lamps/Menorah because Isaiah 11 is blinding you? You obviously agree that the Holy Spirit works through the Church when you stated, “It started on the day of Pentecost with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of about 120 believers in Christ Jesus. Then the use of the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit came into effect upon the church and the world.” Again, Rev 5:6 states, “…seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.”

When you say, “Praise to His Name”, after stating, “There is one God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost and all three work together for the benefit of the church”, what is His Name? Or, are there three names?

You stated, “(Horns do represent authority and it is interesting that we do have seven continents on the earth.) Come on, brother. Why did God create Adam and Eve (mankind)? Gen 1:28 “God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." Cross-reference Ps 8:6-8: “You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet, All sheep and oxen, And also the beasts of the field, The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea, Whatever passes through the paths of the seas.” Gives new ‘Light’ to even 1 Cor 15:27. Jesus was the last Adam who gave the rulership over all things back to the Church (believers) – not buildings (Eph 1:22).

The rest of that comment appears to continue to be my own words without response inserted. Praise the LORD, our God (and there is only One LORD, the One True God – Eph 4:5; 1 John 5:20).


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

voice of one, other than you stating that "angels are ministering spirits sent forth from the father and the son" (as I do not believe the Father and the Son are separate 'persons'), I fully agree with your comment. The angelic realm is incredibly fascinating ~ the warfare that goes on in that plane, which obviously promotes the kingdom of Satan and attempts to hinder the kingdom of God. We truly do not wrestle against flesh and blood, amen. We have the victory since the cross, by faith in our LORD, Jesus Christ. He took the kingdom we had given over to Satan back and He gives it back to us ~ now, in this present world, with resistance ~ after death (the last enemy to be destroyed) without resistance. Praise God!


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

voice of one, are you willing?

I invite you to read my hub on 1 John 5:7 (8) and even Mat 28:19: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/THREE-That...

“The rendition of I John 5:7 [the Johannine Comma] in the King James Version is clearly erroneous. Even the Catholic Church, a major proponent of the doctrine of Trinity, denies the authenticity of the verse. The Vatican said:

‘In recent times the doubts concerning its authenticity have grown and the Holy Office, in 1927, declared that, after careful examination of the whole circumstances, its genuineness could be denied." (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, p. 56)’”

http://begliponeo.tripod.com/original/church_qa020...

The following is taken from my hub “Should You Believe in the Trinity 1 of 2”:

It was Tertullian (150 - 225 AD) who first coined the term 'Trinity' (God in three persons) in the year 200. He was converted to Catholicism in 195 and became an ordained Priest in the year 200. It wasn't until the 15th century, the first official translation of the Hebrew and Greek text into Latin was done by yet another Catholic Priest, named Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus in1516. It was called the Textus Receptus. He revised it in 1519, after Aldus Manutius translated from it in 1518, with independent text.

Because some influential Catholics were offended that Erasmus’ 1516 version did not contain the Trinitarian formula of “Father, Word and Holy Spirit” in 1 John 5:7, Erasmus explained that he wasn’t aware of any Greek manuscript with that wording. Hence, the Catholics came up with one, written by an Oxford scholar named Roy or Froy in 1520, known as the Codex 61. Though NO ONE has ever found Greek text containing this wording, Erasmus changed the text to please his Catholic hierarchs in his 1522 edition. This addition to the original Greek text has since been known as “The Johannine Comma”.

There were several more ‘revisions’ of Erasmus’ Textus Receptus, but the Trinity wording remained. These revisions went from Stephanus (1551) to Theodore de Bèza (1519-1605) to Elzevir (1624), with minor changes in 1633, to the 1873 Oxford edition, which is no longer available. The King James Version was translated from the Textus Receptus into English in 1611 (most likely from Theodore de Beza’s version). In fact, ALL Bible versions we have today are birthed from the Textus Receptus! Therefore, the 'foundational' doctrine of the 'Trinity', based on its altered translation, has only been around for less than five centuries!

Even Mat 23:19 was altered by the Catholic Church

"The Baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the 2nd century (The Catholic Encyclopedia, 2, pg 263)"

Tares were sown among the wheat. Our Teacher, the LORD, will show us, if we are willing....God bless you.


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

I am not Catholic.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

We don't have to be 'Catholic' to have been influenced by the tares they have sown in the Word of God. Their judgment will be severe for what they've done.

THEY initiated celebrating the birth of Christ on Dec 25th (our LORD was born in September), as they already celebrate the 'Immaculate Conception' on Dec 8th...do the math. THEY still practice 'Lent', which is a cover-up for the 40 days of 'weeping for Tammuz', prior to 'Easter', which is pagan as well (Ishtar - pronounced 'Easter'), at which time they celebrate the 'Queen of Heaven', a name they've now given to the Virgin Mary. They have corrupted the Truth of the Word of God, and all 'Protestant' sects that branched off of the Catholic Church have been tainted by her.

Keep watch and just stay close to the LORD God, your Savior, Jesus Christ. The last days are evil and even the elect can be deceived, IF it were possible.

Praise God, brother. Praise God.


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

Like I said, I am not Catholic nor do I believe the way they do. Do you understand?


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Of course. God understands. That's what matters most.


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voice of one 4 years ago from Illinois

JD, I understand what you are trying to present in your Hub about the menorah being the symbol of the church today. How under the law they were to keep the fire going continually on the menorah. And yes, today it is done through the work of the Holy Spirit whom Jesus sent to us once he went back to heaven. But as I said early in one of my comments as far as the 7 lamps of fire, 7 horns, and the 7 eyes, and even the 7 spirits are all symbolic or (should I say wrap up) of the one Holy Spirit indicating / showing His fullness and power upon the Lamb and before the throne ministering throughout the earth today. Do you understand?


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

voice of one, You have stated your understanding of the seven spirits of God many times. Do I 'understand'? No. I understand what this study reveals and I choose to stick with the interpretation of the seven lamps, horns and eyes, which Revelation states ARE the seven spirits of God. I agree it is the Holy Spirit that lights the lamps of the Menorah (the 'Candlestick') = the Church, that is before the Throne of the One, True God. I thoroughly appreciate our full discussion of this topic. Thank you so much, as I feel it will greatly benefit those who come to read. Our labor is never in vain. Praise God.


Elshabazz 4 years ago

Hi this is elshbazz, I would like to say that the seven spirits of God, is not talking about the church. the seven spirits is symbolic code its dealing with the body, not the church. the hole book of revelation have been misunderstood for many, many, many, decade we must worship in spirit an in truth I encourage you to keep the faith and keep studying remember things that are symbolic have deeper meaning in the spirit.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi brother elshabazz, the 'body' of Christ is the Church, and based on this inductive study of the Bible, I cannot say I agree that the seven spirits of God are not the lamps (believers) lit by His fire (the Spirit), who are the Lampstand (Menorah) before His throne and lampstands (churches) that go out into all the earth. They are the seven horns (kings that have yet to receive the kingdom) and seven eyes (no longer 'blind' but 'see').

I'm not sure if you're insinuating a 'New Age' concept of the seven spirits of God being within our being (body), as even Edgar Casey believes the 24 elders around the Throne are the 24 brain stems in the human body. I don't subscribe to New Age theology...

I do love you in the LORD. If you do not mean 'new age' theology, please give biblical reference to what you are stating, so I better understand where you are coming from. Thank you ~


wayne92587 4 years ago

I posted a response as to the seven spirits of God and was ask for my biblical exegesis, which I do not have.

I am not a biblical scholar, in fact I am not a Christian, have no religious affiliation.

I do however have an opinion I see as being valid.

My post said that the 7 spirits of God were; fervor, zeal, ardor. ire, fury, wrath, rage.

I would prefer to state that these, “are the Seven Expression of a Single Spirit, the One, the the Absolute, the Whole of God’s Spirit, Passion; the Way, the Spirit, the Single True Nature of the Universe, of the Reality of Everything----O, God’s Passion.

I would say that anyone, any church, being indwelled by the Passion of God would be capable of exibiting these 7

expression of the Spirit, the Passion of God.

Now don’t forget God is responsible for the Chaotic Systems that rule the Heavens and the Earth, the Material, Physical, World of Reality, said Passion as expressed by the Material World of Reality refereed as being the fury of Mother Nature, the fervor, zeal, ardor, ire, fury, wrath, rage, of Mother Nature.

Hermes Trismegistus, Lord of the Ring,

Keeper of the Holy Grail----O.

Ye, Amen, Ra!


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

wayne92587, my Bible says God is love. In fact, the two commandments we are to keep that fulfills the whole Law is to love God with all our hearts, souls, minds and strenth and to love our neighbors as ourselves. I don't see love in your list...I know, being made in God's image, I have a lot more fascets to my 'expressions' (emotions) than "fervor, zeal, ardor. ire, fury, wrath, rage." In fact, I leave the fury, wrath and rage to the LORD as much as possible. :-)


wayne92587 4 years ago

Passion;.Archaic. the sufferings of a martyr.

Passion; feeling; capacity for emotion, esp. compassion: to have great feeling for the sufferings of others.

Passion; fervor, zeal, adore, ire, fury, wrath, rage.

Passion; Fervor;

1. great warmth and earnestness of feeling: to speak with great fervor.

2. intense heat.

Zeal; fervor for a person, cause, or object; eager desire or endeavor; enthusiastic diligence;

Adore;

1. to regard with the utmost esteem, love, and respect;

honor.

2. to pay divine honor to; worship: to adore God.

3. to like or admire very much.

In order to find Great Joy you will have to experience Great Sorrow, the Emotional Sensation of the two being the same.

The Single True Nature of the Universe, of the Reality of Everything having been created in the Image of God’s Passion, The Spirit of God being an Absolute, a Single, One Spirit.

Passion, the Whole, the Absolute, the One, the Single Spirit of God capable of, having the capacity to be, of being expressed, issuing forth from a Single Source, Origin, as fervor, zeal, adore, ire, fury, wrath, rage.

Passion, being the Absolute, the One, the Single True Nature, Spirit of the Universe, of the Reality of Everything having the capacity of being expressed naturally as, issuing forth as; fervor, zeal, adore, ire, fury, wrath, rage.

The Summation being that; fervor, zeal, adore, ire, fury, wrath, rage, are each born of, issue forth from the Absolute, the One, the Single True Nature of the Universe, of the Reality of Everything, are naturally born of God’s indwelling Spirit, Passion.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

For not being a 'Christian', wayne92587, I feel you have some divine inspiration going on...

Although I don't feel these emotions/attributes/passions ARE the 'seven spirits of God' spoken of in Revelation, I very much enjoyed your post about these passions. Why I stated I didn't see 'love' in your list of passions is because you initially stated 'ardor', which is not 'adore'.

Ardor is defined as "great passion, enthusiasm, or eagerness", yet it can go to the depths of "very strong feelings of love". God is love and all the other passions you mentioned are birthed out of that great love. This is why we 'love' others, exhibiting so many of these passions.

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is found in Galatians 5:22-23 "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance."

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are found in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10: "word of wisdom, word of knowledge, faith, healing, effecting of miracles, prophecy, distinguishing of spirits, various kinds of tongues and interpretation of tongues." All of these are given to us by the One Holy Spirit of God.

Between the fruit and the gifts, there are far more than seven manifestations (attributes/passions). God is generous to give to those who ask - Mat 7:11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!"

John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

John 16:24 "Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full."

I pray you will ask Jesus Christ in prayer, Wayne. Come to Jesus. He will not turn you away because He loves you with the greatest LOVE, a holy LOVE that died for you to give you eternal LIFE. He was resurrected from that enemy of death, and you will overcome the grave, too...resurrected to LIFE, if you ardently put your trust and faith in Him.


wayne92587 4 years ago

I can not say that I believe that fervor, zeal, adore, ire, fury, wrath, rage, are the seven spirit of God.

I believe that there is a Single True Way, Spirit, Nature of the Motion of a Singularity alone in the Emptiness.

I trying explain said Nature, I find that it is best defined as being Passion, Passion being the Force that is the cause of the Motion of a Singularity, the Motion of a Singularity being innate, indwelling, the expression of said indwelling, Eternal, Everlasting, Nature being displacement, angular momentum, velocity of Speed and direction.

When I saw the post on the seven spirits of God, I looked up the word Passion in the dictionary and found; fervor, zeal, adore, ire, fury, wrath, rage.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you, wayne92587. I have been inspired by your study on Passion. I believe this is why the death of our LORD for our transgressions to redeem us, to save us and give us life is notably called "The Passion of the Christ". God loves you and so do I. Bless you, Wayne.


Elshabazz 4 years ago

those that worship must worship in spirit an in truth religion have a way of blinding folks, this is not a new age theology, but, the bible says God will do a new thing I will show how we have been deceive with traditon of men, medataion, is the key to our spiritual growth the things of God. psalm 119-15


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Elshabazz, I have yet to get to know you spiritually, as we have had but one conversation, where my understanding of your view of God is He is One, not three, so we are in agreement there. I look forward to your hubs, based on your profile statement, of which you've stated again, that 'I will show how we have been deceived with traditions of men.'

Now, I've just done a very thorough study on the seven spirits of God and you have stated, "the seven spirits of God, is not talking about the church. the seven spirits is symbolic code its dealing with the body, not the church." So, we are in disagreement. In order for me to consider your 'meditation' on this subject, I will hope you write about it, using the Word of God to establish what you feel is the 'body', if it is not the Church ~ and of course, that your view is not 'New Age'.

I'll keep my eyes open...


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WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

Don't get mad at me. I didn't look up all of the references. I am amazed at your ability to put together such detailed studies and analysis. It is beyond me, I admire your gifts and intellect . . . what a blessing.

I have conducted my own study of Revelation. To me the most important and powerful passage is, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. Whoever opens the door, I will come in and sup with him and him with me." Excuse the translation, please.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Brother WD Curry 111, how could I be 'mad' at you? lol ~ your point is, that it doesn't REALLY matter what the interpretation of 'the seven spirits of God' are, when what DOES matter is the salvation invitation!! AMEN! Now, if you had told me there were 'seven spirits' knocking on the door, I might have to chastise you! lol

Why I tackled this subject is because of the false doctrine out there by such teachers as Monica Dennington, who are teaching that God Himself is seven 'spirits', in context of the 'trinity' (three persons), so He's seven 'persons' - that's a botched up and heretical teaching, thus the motive of my heart and study results.

I love you dearly and know you love me in the Love of out LORD, also. Thank you, WD ~ JD.


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WD Curry 111 4 years ago from Space Coast

Oh, I sure did not mean that the seven spirits were not important. I have heard it taught several ways. One was the seven spirits were the seven churches. Your understanding is not to be scoffed at, and you did a fine job of debunking a myth.

Of course I love you. Remember how I started off? He who is forgiven much loves much!


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PlanksandNails 4 years ago from among the Ekklesia

Judah's Daughter,

I believe in these end times it is so important to dig into the Bible to grasp more of who God is, especially because we are in a time where seducing spirits are deceiving many into believing otherwise. Scripture says who God is, and who He isn't. It is important to know both; otherwise, how would we be able to discern "another Jesus?"

And one called out to another and said,“Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts, The whole earth is full of His glory.” - Isaiah 6:3

“HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME.” - Revelation 4:8

These verses give three holy's of God.

Walk about Zion and go around her; Count her towers; Consider her ramparts; Go through her palaces, That you may tell it to the next generation. For such is God, Our God forever and ever; He will guide us until death. - Psalm 48:12-14

“At that time they will call Jerusalem ‘The Throne of the LORD,’ and all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem, for the name of the LORD; - Jeremiah 3:17

These verses speaks that God is Zion and God is His throne.

‘I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; - Luke 15:18

Sinning against heaven is also sinning against God.

‘And in that it was commanded to leave the stump with the roots of the tree, your kingdom will be assured to you after you recognize that it is Heaven that rules. - Daniel 4:26

Heaven is ruling.

“Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.” - Isaiah 48:16

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit - Matthew 28:19

The triune God for the nations.

There are many more verses in the Bible that explain more of who God is in the contextual distinctions of literal and symbolic. For example, the sun, moon, and stars are not to be worshipped (Deuteronomy, Kings), but in other parts of Scripture (Psalms, Malachi), it says that God is a sun.

We cannot fully fathom God, but I believe His triune nature would sum up His seven spirits as the Holy Spirit, just as the deity of the physical man, Jesus Christ, is the Son, and the throne and heaven is the Father who sends the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The most important aspect of God is the Good News, which would sum up the only true and genuine hope for each and every individual on this planet.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi PlanksandNails, While I appreciate your insight about heaven and Zion (Jerusalem), may I exhort what you stated Ps 48:12-14 and Jer 3:17 means. You stated, “These verses speak that God is Zion and God is His throne.” No. Heaven is God's throne and 'at that time' Zion will be God’s throne (Is 66:1). We see the LORD reigning from Jerusalem during the millennium and from the New Jerusalem on the New Earth after the present heaven and earth have passed away (Rev 21 on).

Is 48:16 is not about a 'trinity'. The commentary states, “Yahweh had sent him (a prophet – i.e. Isaiah), and at the same time had also sent His Spirit to accompany what he said. Grotius renders it, 'The LORD by His Spirit has given me these commands.' The Septuagint, like the Hebrew, is ambiguous. The Syriac has the same ambiguity. The Targum of Jonathan renders it, 'And now Yehovah (?? yeya?) God hath sent me and His word.'” The NIV states, “the Sovereign LORD has sent me, with His Spirit.” This is not talking about Jesus, the Word, being sent. Isaiah was a prophet, so can God not send him and His (God's) Spirit to prophesy?

Mat 28:19 was admittedly altered by the Roman Catholic heirarchs. It originally stated, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations in My name”. Here is the proof: "The Baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the 2nd century (The Catholic Encyclopedia, 2, pg 263)". In fact, baptism was not included in the original Greek text of this verse at all. Don't you think it’s a bit blasphemous of the RCC to put words in Jesus’ mouth? They also added the Johannine Comma to the holy Word (1 John 5:7). I have a hub about this: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/THREE-That...

It’s no marvel, I suppose, that so many are indoctrinated away from what this study clearly shows is the interpretation of ‘the seven spirits of God’. Belief in the Trinity is due to corruption of the Word, traditional teachings of men and its resulting ignorance. The ‘pillars’ of Mat 28:19 and 1 John 5:7 are as the pillars of Athens. Therefore, I cannot agree with your statement, “I believe His triune nature would sum up His seven spirits as the Holy Spirit.”

I CAN agree that just as the Holy Spirit’s fire was distributed on the 120 in the upper room on the Day of Pentecost, that Flame lights the seven Lampstands (churches) made without hands ~ the Church (Menorah) made up of lamps, who are believers, who are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

I love you in the love of the LORD. As I wrote in the beginning of this hub, “God is Spirit (John 4:24). The LORD is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17) and Jesus Christ is LORD (2 Cor 4:5; 12:3).”


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PlanksandNails 4 years ago from among the Ekklesia

Judah's Daughter,

Thank-you for responding, I hope to clarify a bit more on my short statements.

When I look at Psalm 48:12-14: Walk about Zion and go around her; count her towers; consider her ramparts; go through her palaces, that you may tell it to the next generation. For such is God, our God forever and ever; He will guide us until death.

The first part of these verses are physical characteristics, but at the end, Zion (Jerusalem) is called God (Kiy zeh elohim).

Jerusalem is synonymous with God. Further reading of Jeremiah makes this more evident.

“Behold, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch; and He will reign as king and act wisely and do justice and righteousness in the land. “In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely; and this is His name by which He will be called,‘The LORD our righteousness.’ - Jeremiah 23:5-6

‘Behold, days are coming,’ declares the LORD, ‘when I will fulfill the good word which I have spoken concerning the house of Israel and the house of Judah. ‘In those days and at that time I will cause a righteous Branch of David to spring forth; and He shall execute justice and righteousness on the earth. ‘In those days Judah will be saved and Jerusalem will dwell in safety; and this is the name by which she will be called: the LORD is our righteousness.’ - Jeremiah 33:14-16

From reading theses verses, "the LORD is our righteousness" is both Jerusalem and the Branch. If that is the case, then God is one and the same; Jerusalem is God and the Branch is God, which is also, "the LORD is our righteousness."

In Psalm 137:5-6 it says:

If I forget you, O Jerusalem, may my right hand forget her skill. May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth if I do not remember you, if I do not exalt Jerusalem above my chief joy.

If I were to exalt Jerusalem above my chief joy and Jerusalem is not God, would it not be considered idolatry?

Then I will go to the altar of God, to God my exceeding joy; and upon the lyre I shall praise You, O God, my God. - Psalm 43:4

("Therefore, I cannot agree with your statement, “I believe His triune nature would sum up His seven spirits as the Holy Spirit.”)

“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. “All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. - John 16:13-15

There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. - Ephesians 4:4-6

There is a distinction between the Hebrew word spirit (ruwach,) which is an uncapitalised common noun. The Greek word pneuma for spirit is used as a proper noun.

In the book of Revelation, "Spirit" is used a proper noun; therefore, becoming personalized, which refers to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is magnified through seven different titles. The distinction becomes apparent from the Hebrew "spirit" and the Greek "Spirit" in the sense of their terms.


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Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

PlanksAndNails, This hub is really not about whether or not Jerusalem is God, but I will answer you.

What is God doing in the first part of Ps 48:12-13? He is guiding them to ‘walk about Zion and go around her, count her towers, consider her remparts; go through her palaces, that you may tell it to the next generation. Period. Vs. 14 is a separate statement: “For such is God, our forever and ever; He will GUIDE US until death.” This does not say Zion IS God.

Jer 23:5 has nothing to do with vs. 6. Verse 6 tells us, “this is His name by which He will be called,‘The LORD our righteousness.’”.

Jer 33:16 “this is the name by which she will be called: the LORD is our righteousness’” can be compared to 2 Chron 7:14 “If My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray…” This does not mean we are the LORD God, but rather His people, who are called by His name (i.e. Christians).

Ps 137:5-6 is being written by David and ‘chief’ joy is the Hebrew word ‘rosh’ (head, as in Rosh Ha Shannah, the first day of the New Year); the City and its people are not equal with God.

Ps 43:4 is written “exceeding joy”, which is the Hebrew word ‘simchah’ - delight (1), exceeding joy (1), extremely* (1), festival (1), gladness (34), happiness (1), joy (38), mirth (1), pleasure (6), rejoice (1), rejoiced (1), rejoicing (6).

John 16:13-15 were spoken by the last Adam, Jesus as the Son of Man. For understanding, go back to Chapter 14:15-18 “If you love Me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another [allos – more of the same] Counselor to be with you forever—the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither SEES Him nor KNOWS Him. But you KNOW Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I [Jesus] will not leave you as orphans [Fatherless]; I WILL COME TO YOU.”

To understand more fully, note what Jesus said above, “The world cannot accept Him, because it neither SEES Him nor KNOWS Him. But you KNOW Him…” and compare this to what He just said in vs. 7 of the same chapter: “If you really KNEW ME, you would KNOW My FATHER as well. From NOW on, you do KNOW Him and have SEEN Him.”

Eph 4:4-6 means ONE (singular). One (1) body (the body is made up of many parts, not the word ‘one’). If I say I have one pair of shoes, I have one (1) pair (two) of shoes. There is one LORD (one is not plural; Lord is not plural); one (1) faith (how many faiths are there?) and only one (1) baptism (and it’s not the baptism of water, but of fire – Acts 19:3-5; Mat 3:11). The LORD (Yehovah/Kyrios) is God the Father and Jesus Christ is LORD (1 Cor 12:3). Let’s look at the first commandment: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one” (Deut 6:4/Mark 12:29) – The Hebrew word is ‘echad’/Greek is ‘heis’. The word is an adjective – singular, male. The same word is used regarding God taking one (1) of Adam’s ribs (Gen 2:21). One is singular, ribs is plural.

Ruach (Hebrew) is a feminine noun; Pneuma (Greek) is a neuter noun. Spirit has no gender. The Holy Spirit in the Old Testament is the same Holy Spirit in the New Testament. Likewise, the spirit of man in the OT (ruach – Ecc 12:7) is the same spirit of man in the NT (pneuma – Acts 7:59).

You said, “The Holy Spirit is magnified through seven different titles.” Really? Titles or attributes? I can count a lot more than seven in the Word.


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PlanksandNails 4 years ago from among the Ekklesia

Judah's Daughter,

I have read many of your themes and appreciate the time that you take with each individual that comments, even when there are disagreements. You don't just tackle the surface, but dig much deeper to draw out more clarification in Scripture, even exposing false teachings and religions.

Thank-you for taking the time to respond and having patience with my line of thinking. When I come to a hurdle that I may need to overcome, I wrestle with it and throw out reactive arguments. I was attempting to fit God as Zion in the same way of fitting God as the seven spirits to personally see where it would go to realise the distinction.

I hope you don't mind a few more questions to walk this out?

Would you agree that Zion is of God, but not God?

When there is something unique in Scripture, which expands on who God is, I am inclined to see where it fits in with the attributes of the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit.

Within who God is are the titles of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have many attributes. With that in mind, are the seven spirits of God additional titles to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, or do they fall within the attributes of them?

If Zion is of God, and not God, in the same way, are the seven spirits, of God, or are they God?

Do you believe that the seven spirits of God fit within the sphere of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, or is it an addition, which would mean that the sphere of who God is goes beyond them?

Are the seven spirits, of God, or are they God?

Are the seven spirits an attribute, or title of God?

Is there a distinction between OF and IS?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

I appreciate your spirit, PlanksandNails. Thank you kindly for your edifying compliments. I try to listen to the LORD as to whether I am to answer or not to answer. I will continue with His prompting as He leads. I desire to serve Him, hopefully at least adequately...maybe someday with excellence! He is our HOPE, praise God.

Following are your questions, with my answers preceded by an ‘A’:

1. Would you agree that Zion is of God, but not God? A. Yes.

2. Are the seven spirits of God additional titles to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, or do they fall within the attributes of them? A. The seven spirits of God are not titles, but the Holy Spirit (along with His attributes and gifts) working through the Church made without hands (the Menorah), made up of believers.

3. If Zion is of God, and not God, in the same way, are the seven spirits, of God, or are they God? A. The Word states ‘the seven spirits OF God’; therefore, this aligns with Zion (the Church) being OF God, but not the LORD God. The Holy Spirit, however is OF God and IS God, Who lights the lamps (believers) of the Lampstand (seven-lamped Menorah). People are called ‘spirits’; the Holy Spirit is not plural, but singular.

4. Do you believe that the seven spirits of God fit within the sphere of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, or is it an addition, which would mean that the sphere of who God is goes beyond them? A. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not three Spirits, but modes/titles of the One Holy Spirit (God), Who manifested Himself in the flesh; the same Spirit that works IN and THROUGH believers (Zion/the Church).

5. Are the seven spirits, of God, or are they God? A. You asked this in question 3.

6. Are the seven spirits an attribute, or title of God? A. Neither. They are the seven lamps of the Menorah (the Church), lighted by the Holy Spirit = 7 spirits (mankind). They ARE the seven horns (kings who have not yet received the Kingdom) and ARE the seven eyes on the Cornerstone (we who have eyes to see) - the Holy Spirit working through believers. Not an ‘attribute’ (singular) because the Holy Spirit (God) has many attributes, way beyond seven. Not a ‘title’ because God is not three ‘persons’, let alone seven ‘Spirits’.

7. Is there a distinction between OF and IS? A. That depends. Your breath (spirit) is OF you, but you are made up OF more than just your spirit. While your spirit IS you, so IS your mind, soul, heart and body. This does not make you five spirits because your spirit, mind, soul, heart and body are YOU. Nor, does it mean you are five persons. To say the prophet Isaiah is OF God is one thing; to say he IS God is another. In this latter sense, there is a distinction of persons. Jesus, on the other hand, was and IS God = the same ‘person’/Spirit.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 4 years ago from among the Ekklesia

Judah's Daughter,

I can say I don't disagree with any of your answers, and you clarified things admirably.

I believe distinctions are very important because if there is not clarity, it can lead down rabbit trails and a distorted perception of things.

If I may be so bold to invite you to a hub that I have written. I would be grateful for a critique and more advanced theological perspective on the topic.

http://hubpages.com/t/233c33

Thank-you, I appreciate your commitment to those in the writing community here.

God Bless!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi PlanksandNails, It is a blessing to me that you have gained something from my responses to you. I rejoice with you! Thank you.

You invited me to come and read your publication and to comment ~ well, my comment is drafted, but it is 1,848 words. Perhaps I should send the 'hub' of a commentary to you via email? So much to share. I have it, if you wish. Just let me know. God bless.


ShalahChayilJOY profile image

ShalahChayilJOY 4 years ago from Billings, Montana

Excellently researched and clearly written. The scriptures actually have 70 levels of understanding. It is like a diamond---you can look 'into' its different 'facets' and always see deeper truth. As I kept reading "the seven" the thought popped up into my mind/spirit 'completed' spirits fulfilled in the personal knowledge and intimacy with Yeshua. Seven means completion. "When HE appears, we shall be like HIM because we shall perceive HIM as HE is." I John 3: 2. Also, "When that which is perfect is come, (we who have become mature in HIM-complete) then that which is in part shall be done away... I Cor. 13: 10 divisions, strife etc.

We have so much revelation to yet be revealed to us.

ever feel like a 'beaten olive' ?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Thank you, ShalahChayiJOY! Yes, yes, my spirit concurs in the 'perfecting' of the body IN Christ, Who is perfect. I also agree that there are different 'facets' to the 'diamond' of His Word. That IS the Spirit's teaching ~ perfect.

I believe it is said that the commandments/testimonies/words of our LORD written by His own finger on the tablets of stone could be read on both sides. Truth can be challenged by all sides and will stand up, no matter what the angle.

What a beautiful commentary. And, yes, at times I do feel like a 'beaten olive', yet I rejoice, for how else can the oil be produced? AMEN. God bless you!


PapawStan profile image

PapawStan 3 years ago

Excellent Article! Great Work and Research. Bro. Gearld said the same thing when he did his series on Revelations. He didn't know if it would be Elijah and Moses or Elijan and Enoch or who. Enjoyed! Bless You, Good Sister!


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Judah's Daughter 3 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

Praise God, brother PapawStan! Only by the LORD and His Word!

Since the two witnesses are the "two lampstands" and "two olive trees", it appears they will be two churches? I'm still out on that one...

I was just driven nuts again listening to a youtube video (not knowing it was AMightyWind) ~ wow. Another false prophetess as Monica Dennington! Why don't they just get out of the pagan, Trinitarian (or as with Monica and her seven-headed Godhead) thinking and stop calling the Holy Spirit another 'Person', 'Mother of Creation', etc.?!!

The 'feminine' aspect of the Holy Spirit is the LORD working through His Bride, the Church!! "HalleluYah, Jesus, we love You and praise You for setting the crooked ways of the world STRAIGHT. One Path, One Way, One GOD, the Almighty! The One Holy Spirit that Lights our flames that we may be as You were and are, the Light of the world!"

God bless you, brother. God bless you.


PapawStan profile image

PapawStan 3 years ago

As Tony Evans would say, "God can hit a Bull'seye with a crooked stick!"


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Judah's Daughter 2 years ago from Roseville, CA Author

I've finally gotten the 'answer' to the Two Witnesses. If you do a Bible search where "two witnesses" is used, it is in direct reference to establishing a Truth. The Two Witnesses are the "two lampstands and two olive trees" (yet there are not four Witnesses). "Lampstands" are "churches", so while there are seven churches that make up the Menorah, "Two" merely represents they Witness to the Truth. They are not both the Church and Israel as "two", for there is but one Israel of God (Rom 11). This is the answer.


whonunuwho profile image

whonunuwho 23 months ago from United States

The statement made by the lord was that "when two or more come together in my name..I will be present with you". This was informative and inspired me to do more searching of the scriptures. whonu


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 23 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Bless you, whonunuwho. I'm thankful you received of the manna and desire to search out the Spirit of God in His Word. Let me know if you have questions or if I can help you in any way. God is our Teacher and He is so faithful to us, whenever we ask according to His will. Blessings!


whonunuwho profile image

whonunuwho 23 months ago from United States

Thank you my friend. whonu


Ed Jusino profile image

Ed Jusino 23 months ago from Horsham, PA.

Judah's Daughter you are correct to say that those two horns of that false prophet comes from that religion of the Islam which follows the Qur’an. If i may i want to share a little bit of what i know with all true believers. Back in that first Tabernacle of that Old Testament World the Seven Spirits of God was inside each one of this holy leaders Adam, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David and Elijah and they guided all that history of people that did not had the Holy Spirit individually like we do now in this New Testament World thanks to Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come a high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The spirits of those generations of people that died during that Old Testament World were waiting and expecting for Jesus Christ to come as a thief in the night during their darkness. This actually happened after he was crucified and died between two thieves, when he descended for the mercy of this souls where John the Baptist after being decapitated on earth has being that crying voice in that spiritual wilderness to guide them to the light of Christ with these messages because they did not have the blessing that we have now in this New Testament World with the gift of the Holy Spirit for Salvation. Then Jesus ascended to Heaven to be at the right hand side of the Father to watch over each one of his children. All of us! This are the messages intended for that Old Testament World which History was guided by many Holy Men with the the help of the Seven Spirits of God and this seven messages also harmonized with the Biblical meaning and the sequencial order of the colors of the rainbow that God gave us as a sign in the sky!

First Message to Epesus is for the Era of Adam after their life on Earth! (Green)

Second Message to Smyrna is for the Era of Noah! (Blue)

Third Message to Pergamos is for the Era of Abraham! (Indigo)

Fourth Message to Thyatira is for the Era of Jacob! (Purple)

Fifth Message to Sardis is for the Era of Moses! (Red)

Sixth Message to Philadelphia is for the Era of David! (Orange)

Seventh Message to Laodiceans is for the Era of Elijah! (Yellow)

I believe that all these are the Flame of the Menorah that shines that light in that Spiritual World! Blessings and thanks for your contribution in hubpages for the Salvation of many! Ed Jusino Bible Interpreter.


wayne92587 23 months ago

When a Revelation, not having been readily apparent, is revealed it does not appear as something that is already known; in fact you will more that likely reject it in favor of your own belief.

A Revelation is always in opposition the currant belief system.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 23 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hello wayne92587 ~ John 9:41 comes to mind, "Yeshua said to them, “If you were blind, you would not have sin, but now you say, 'We see.' Because of this, your sin stands.” In other words, those who think they know, are 'blind'; those who do not accept the 'blind' teachings of men, but receive of the Teacher, who is the Spirit, 'see'. Blessings to you.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 23 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hello Ed Jusino - I did not post your more hostile comments, as I am delayed in posting your original one. I appreciate your contribution to the subject of "the seven spirits of God", though when these "interpretations" are not necessarily supported by Scripture, they are just that - your own "revelation" that may or may not be from God. We will not know all things until we are glorified (1 Cor 13:12).

I will say that I would like to recommend a couple of my hubs to address the traditional teachings of men you mentioned, 1) that Jesus went to preach in hell: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Did-Jesus-...

Or 2) that Jesus is at the "right side of the Father" (Trinitarian error) - you may read the whole hub link below, but I will address the "right hand" question, taken from my hub "Let Me Tell You WHO GOD IS!":

GOD's Powerful RIGHT HAND

Understand that God came to us in the image of Jesus Christ, His Son. Earlier we read that the Spirit of God is also the POWER of God. The Bible tells us that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father, indicating there are two persons; however, there is only one God.

What does “right hand” mean? Because God is Spirit, He does not have a visible body. In fact, the Bible tells us He is invisible. So, how can God have a literal “right hand”? This is representative of His power!

Let’s look at Ex 15:6 “Your right hand, O LORD [Yehovah], is majestic in power, Your right hand, O LORD, shatters the enemy.”

Ps 89:13 “You have a strong arm; Your hand is mighty, Your right hand is exalted.”

Heb 1:3 “And He [Jesus Christ] is the radiance of His [God’s] glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.”

Heb 1:8 “But of the Son He [God] says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.'”

Look at the alignment, the mocking of Jesus in Mat 27:29: “They wove thorn branches into a crown and put it on his head, and they placed a reed stick in his right hand as a scepter. Then they knelt before Him in mockery and taunted, ‘Hail! King of the Jews!’”

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Let-Me-Tel...

You signed yourself as "Bible Interpreter", so please know that no Scripture is of private interpretation (2 Pet 1:20). Let the Bible interpret itself and realize "interpretation" (understanding) is a gift (charimata) of the Spirit and comes only from the One who inspired the writings, and is proven by His Word. The Bible interprets itself, and will refute traditional, false, Catholicized doctrines of demons.

Encouraging you to press on, seeking and loving the Truth.


Ed Jusino profile image

Ed Jusino 23 months ago from Horsham, PA.

Judahsdaughter, do not be deceived by Proverbs of Solomon which is that forbidden fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Israel! Jesus Christ do not want you to eat from this other Gospel because if you do eat it of it and digest it you will trully die. Is between the Testaments but is not the Word of God. You cited half of a verse of Proverbs in your last picture for this hub of the Menorah. Please remember that evil will corrupt and add to the Word of God or will take away from the Word of God.

Proverbs 20:27 (commandments of man manipulated by Satan)

The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Revelation 22:5 (Word of God) And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Jewish religion believes in the Menorah probably more than in Jesus Christ and his New Testament. The old lamp holded seven candles but now the new one holds nine. Any reason?

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Is not only from that bread of the Torah that man shall live by but by the New Testament also.

Mark 14:23-24 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it. And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

The Menorah represents only that Old Testament world. And I have the Holy Spirit not seven and believe in the complete Holy Bible!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 23 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Ed, do you agree that the material/literal things of the Old Testament symbolize the immaterial/spiritual things of the New Testament? If you think otherwise, you are in serious error.

Who created the specifications for the Menorah ~ God or the people? You give no sound, biblical argument for your accusations, thus I cannot learn anything from your critique.

You say the seven-branched Menorah has nine? Where do you get that? There IS a nine-branch Menorah used for Hannukah -- either way, you have not proven yourself a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing (interpreting) the Word of Truth. Prove your case.


Ed Jusino profile image

Ed Jusino 23 months ago from Horsham, PA.

Judah's Daughter i will like to apologize if i made a comment that you did not like. Prove my case? Can i make a mistake interpreting from my mind? Yes is possible but in the Holy Spirit with the Word of God never! Yes i am a Bible Interpreter by the Holy Spirit and my Biblical Discoveries are finally unveiled for everyone to know after two millenniums. Is been years of Bible study and i could tell you that Jesus Christ has blessed me with a gift that i do not deserve just like you have a gift too. All the Hubs are from my copyrighted manuscript tittle The Sacred Sword and i want to share these new important information with all especially with Bible Teachers that do not know what I know. You have been many times at my hubs but yet not a comment on them yet. Please read the hubs and see for yourself that is base on Scriptures because you are correct to say that the Bible interprets itself but my understanding is at another level humbly speaking so pray and analyze them and then comment but do not judge until you will come to a complete understanding of the truth because the whole community in hub pages and the internet are reading them as we speak and the test of time will show that i was right and more corrections will be needed in order to see the whole picture of God because i am just as human as you are. Well about the menorah in the Jewish world i share with you this about the nine candles, Wikipedia: The Hanukkah menorah or chanukiah (Hebrew: מנורת חנוכה menorat ḥanukkah, pl. menorot) (also Hebrew: חַנֻכִּיָּה ḥanukkiyah, or chanukkiyah, pl. ḥanukkiyot/chanukkiyot, or Yiddish: חנוכּה לאמפּ khanike lomp, lit.: Hanukkah lamp) is, strictly speaking, a nine-branched candelabrum lit during the eight-day holiday of Hanukkah, as opposed to the seven-branched menorah used in the ancient Temple or as a symbol. The ninth holder, called the shamash ("helper" or "servant"), is for a candle used to light all other candles and/or to be used as an extra light. To be kosher the shamash must be offset on a higher or lower plane than the main eight candles or oil lamps. There are differing opinions as to whether or not all the lights must be arranged in a straight line, or if the channukiah can be arranged in a curve. The menorah is among the most widely produced articles of Jewish ceremonial art. The seven-branched menorah is a traditional symbol of Judaism, along with the Star of David.

Luke 5: 36-39 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.

And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 23 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Your response still does not prove anything contrary to what is inductively presented in this hub, Ed. The nine-branched Hanukkah Menorah is not mentioned in the Bible. The reason it was created was to symbolize the one-day supply of oil God miraculously kept burning for eight days. That has to do with the "dedication of the Temple". Regardless, Revelation tells us that Jesus walks among the 'seven lampstands' and since He is the Light, it is truly He who lights the seven lamps, not eight lamps.

To reject the Menorah teaching, because you associate it with Old Judaism, is foolish. Again, everything in the Old Testament is a shadow of what is revealed in the New Testament. The material/physical of the Old Testament represents the immaterial/Spiritual of what is revealed in Christ. God created the Menorah and all things associated with the physical Temple. Under the New Covenant, the Temple is one "made without hands" - oh, that we open our eyes to see.

The Holy Spirit does not 'reveal' something, contrary to the Holy Scriptures, and when Paul told Timothy in 2 Tim 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:", the only Scripture existing at that time was the Tanakh (the Old Testament). Too many people focus on the New Testament and lack proper interpretation because they simply have ignored or thrown out the Witness to it - the Old Testament.


Ed Jusino profile image

Ed Jusino 23 months ago from Horsham, PA.

Yes i believe too that the New Testament is a reflection of the Old Testament and in order to interpret correctly we most find that inspiration of truth searching thru the complete Holy Bible. I refer to my studies thru the King James Bible of 1611 and the Reyna Valera of 1569 in spanish and so far the blessings have been many. I could use a recent version but will take me longer to find the correct truth. There is no contradiction not even once in the Word of God. His ways are perfect but Satan and his ministers of darkness have tried to corrupt the Word of God by adding or by taking away from the truth of God and one example of this is the Book of Proverbs of Solomon, Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon and all you have to do is to study like i did and compare all 31 chapters of this deceiving book of Proverbs against the pure Word of God and you will see that i am correct on my discovery because is an interpretation by the Holy Spirit and i am just and instrument of God to correct those that teach incorrectly. Yes the Holy Spirit moves me. Amen.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 22 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Well, Ed - I only mentioned Proverbs to show the error that some consider the Holy Spirit (God) FEMALE, but that passage is speaking about an attribute of the Spirit, namely Wisdom. The Church is called the Bride, but the Holy Spirit is working through the Church, correct? Does that mean males incorporated into the Bride (even Jesus, as the son of David/Israel) is FEMALE in gender? No.

So, in reading the entirety of this hub, which does not reference what you have stated are corrupted books, I would think your contention is unfounded. I suppose you've written on why you believe Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon are adding to or taking away from the Word. I DO believe there are some addition/translation corruptions in the Bible; however, they are researchable/provable. The Bible in its original languages does not contradict itself. If something contradicts, we need to find out whether that contradiction is researchable/provable. If not, we need to question our doctrine/theology and subject it to the Word of the LORD.


Dina 12 months ago

This article is so beautifully done and so full of information that I'll be sure to re-read and glean even more understanding. I've recently been learning about the menorah and was happy to find your article. thanks for putting so much detail into it! Blessings...


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 12 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Bless your heart, Dina! I was listening to a pastor on youtube last night and he was teaching the same thing as is written in this hub! Praise the Lord! God is so good at confirming His Word and its rightful interpretation. Blesses my soul! Thank you for commenting and God bless you!


Jay C OBrien profile image

Jay C OBrien 11 months ago from Houston, TX USA

From comment above: "The Bible in its original languages does not contradict itself. If something contradicts, we need to find out whether that contradiction is researchable/provable. If not, we need to question our doctrine/theology and subject it to the Word of the LORD."

The Bible is a set of books collected and bound together by a small group of people in the Fifth century. I find a contradiction between the Old Testament (OT) and New Testament (NT).

The OT depicts God as jealous, vengeful and wrathful, whereas the NT depicts God (Jesus) as a loving, forgiving Father who does not judge/condemn or punish. Which is correct; the OT or NT?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 9 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

They are both correct, Jay C O'Brien. Before Christ, God's people were under the "mediator" of the Law (sin = discipline or death); yet, we see God's discipline and forgiveness in the life of David, do we not? God came to us as YeHoWsHua, God our Savior, in the New Testament gospels and by His Spirit until He comes again (the New "mediator"). Jesus said in John 12:47-48 (speaking of His purpose at that time), "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day."

The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus consummated God's grace and mercy for all time ~ from the beginning until the end. Heb 9:26 "Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself."

Blessings to you!


Jay C OBrien profile image

Jay C OBrien 9 months ago from Houston, TX USA

I believe we are all spiritual beings and all the creation of God, therefore we are all, "God's people." We are not and never have been separate from one another or from God. We are all equal. We are never to harm another human being.

Anyone who harms another person is misguided. A person who harms/kills another person based on their religion is a Religious Terrorist.

Peace Officers are taught to arrest without harm. Our intent should never be to harm.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 9 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

My prayer, Jay C OBrien, is that you read your Bible and hold to what it teaches, rather than holding to an opinion.

1 John 3:10 "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother [a believer]." Do you see that we are not all children of God or "God's people"?

Let's look at 1 John 2:15 "Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

Regarding self-defense, consider what Jesus said in Luke 22:36 when He was about to be arrested: "And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one."

Now, when it comes to revenge or retaliation of a wrong-doing against us:

Luke 17:3 KJV "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."

Romans 12:19 KJV "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Yes, it is GOD HIMSELF who pays back DOUBLE to the Harlot (Mystery Babylon) in Rev 18:5-8: "for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her."

Matthew 5:38 - 48 KVJ "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect [teleios: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.], even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Blessings to you.


Jay C OBrien profile image

Jay C OBrien 9 months ago from Houston, TX USA

Do you agree that no one should kill/harm another person, especially on religious reasons?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 9 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

Hi Jay C OBrien - The Bible teaches us about self-defense, even war. The Commandment is "Thou Shalt Not Kill [murder]". Here's a simple, to-the-point article where we can see what the Bible teaches regarding your question: http://www.gotquestions.org/self-defense.html

Blessings to you!


Jay C OBrien profile image

Jay C OBrien 9 months ago from Houston, TX USA

From citation: "God commanded the Israelites to completely destroy everyone and everything in the Promised Land!" (this includes little children!)

Surely you can see it was wrong of Joshua to kill children.

So, is it OK to kill/harm based on religious principles?

After 20 years in law enforcement and being as instructor on Use of Force, I have concluded that Lethal Force is not needed. There are just too many options.

See Hub, "From Warrior to Peace Officer."


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 9 months ago from Roseville, CA Author

God is the Creator, the Giver of life. If He takes life, He takes it -- who's to say those little children weren't immediately transported to His heavenly home? God has a reason for everything - there is nothing without design. He knows the end from the beginning. We are not to murder, but war is a different story. Thank you for being a peace officer. I appreciate your service. Blessings to you Jay C OBrien.

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