The Shocking Tale of the African Viking God, and the questions that followed...

Chris Hemsworth as thor
Chris Hemsworth as thor

Let me tell you a secret. Well, it's not really a secret so much as something you might not know about me yet.

I LOVE POP CULTURE!

I love science fiction, I love horror, I love wild stories about worlds that might have existed, or worlds that never could. I love these things across the entire spectrum of media, in blockbuster films with glorious special effects and in novels where my imagination does cartwheels building fantastic images in lieu of computer artists.

I love comic books too. Possibly because I spent so much time at the School of Visual arts in NYC, where the big guns of Marvel and DC take time off to teach the next generation of writers and cartoonists to make....magic. (Being fed a diet of 2000 AD and Diabolik while growing up in London probably helped a lot as well.) And no....I assure you I'm not, you know. Funny looking. The age of the attractive woman who loves Batman is upon ye; Embrace the paradigm one and all!

So I have to tell you, I'm really excited that there is a Mighty Thor film coming out soon (Even though I know a better actor who should have played him – you were robbed, Dave.) Certainly, they're putting a somewhat futuristic looking spin on what is supposed to be a Viking deity and he doesn't even resemble his two dimensional counterpart much...but it's fantasy, yes? Artistic license should be the order of the day?

I would say so, yet there is something of a buzz surrounding the film's casting of Idris Elba to play Heimdall, guardian of the Bifrost bridge, a long time supporting character in the Thor Comic book series. You see....Idris Elba is....A BLACK GUY. Dun dun DUNNNNN!!!!! Dramatic music abounds as spectators gasp in shock when confronted with the somewhat dark skinned Viking God. Apparently, a lot of people think that it's strange for a Norseman to look so African.

Idris Elba and the Comic Book depiction of Heimdall
Idris Elba and the Comic Book depiction of Heimdall

Rahne on the other hand doesn't gives a shite. WHO THE BLOODY HELL CARES!?!?! Quite a few people, and I sort of see the point in message board comments like: “So Thor is based on Norse Mythology? Idris Elba looks pretty Nordic to me…Why not then cast 50 Cent as Thor? Mind you Nick Fury is now black ( sorry,,, African American) . I wonder if a Black Panther adaptation will be cast with Nick Cage to balance things out?”

The response to comments above has largely been to cite them as racist in nature. The overall buzz about the casting of Heimdall is being called racist. (Take note of this.)

Personally...the colour of Heimdall seems irrelevant to me. Thor comic books have a long standing supporting character named Hogun the Grim who has always been depicted as something of a Mongol.

Hogun the Grim, and Tadanobu Asano who is set to portray him
Hogun the Grim, and Tadanobu Asano who is set to portray him

So in my mind, I can build scenarios in which this makes sense....

~ Since there is a Mongol Asgardian God, perhaps the pantheons of various cultures occasionally run across one another? Perhaps Heimdall is the product of a union between a Norse deity and an African God?

~ I know from my fondness of ancient civilisations that Vikings would, upon defeating and slaying a respected foe, adopt their children to be raised as their own. Perhaps Heimdall was adopted in a similar manner and brought up as an Asgardian?

You can work with this, it's not really something to get the knickers in a twist. I say congratulations to Idris, he'll make a fine Asgardian.

But here is where this blog ceases to be an amusing diversion. You see...something interesting happens when we invert this question. Suppose for a moment that Hollywood was currently set to produce a film about African Gods. Suppose a white man happens to be caste in the role of an African God, and imagine that ancient African natives are depicted worshipping him in the film. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....Not quite the same situation now, is it?

So here are my questions to you.

Is the buzz about the casting of Heimdall racist in nature, or do people just find the notion of a black Viking silly?

Does public reaction suggest something about western perception of race? Is a double standard at work here?

If the situation were reversed, would public opinion come out in support of a white actor playing an African God as it has for a black actor playing a Norse God? Does this suggest something about the psychology of race perception?

These are things worth considering, because in the end, the conclusions we draw might tell us a lot about the modern concept of race, race relations, and the supposed “roles” various races are expected to play in our contemporary, clearly enlightened culture.

That said....who else is looking forward to seeing this? I know I am :-D

A familiar face as Odin, father of the Gods...the Evil Loki seen in the background
A familiar face as Odin, father of the Gods...the Evil Loki seen in the background

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Comments 81 comments

Lorenzo C 6 years ago

I'll see it and I think Jackie Chan should have been Thor.

Just kidding. ;-) I look for quality acting, I could care less about skin color or eye shape, or nose shape or the color of teeth, or if they like Scandinavians chicks... ~ L


Acid Rahne profile image

Acid Rahne 6 years ago Author

I agree completely. BUT. I am very curious to see if anyone takes up the challenge of flipping this question around :-P


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

A flipped person is better than a flipped question. ;-) Every question carries within it, its own lead to an answer. Flipping questions are just fun and games, but I have a t-shirt that says "It's all fun and games until someone loses their eye..." Figurative and physically true about "flipping questions..." My 2 simple cents...

~ L


Faust 6 years ago

It is an interesting question, and not one without historical precedent. It seems that in the works by the likes of Edgar Rice Burroughs and H. Rider Haggard as well as some interpretations of, say, Mayan mythology we see some deities or outstanding characters who are light-skinned. By today's standards such representations certainly smack of the racism that was almost ubiquitous for the era and it's difficult to evaluate them with any sense of objectivity. On a purely intellectual level, the idea of Heimdall being non-Norse does inspire a double-take, but does not "break" the story. Who's to say that Valhalla didn't have an exchange program set up with the other pantheons? As you mention, the Vikings did range widely, as may have others. Ultimately, as one of your other readers mentions, the performances will be more important than the ancestral origin of the actors. I am looking forward to seeing the *blonde* god of thunder in a theater near me!


Orion7 profile image

Orion7 6 years ago from International

Is the buzz about the casting of Heimdall racist in nature, or do people just find the notion of a black Viking silly?

(R) Depends on Historical accuracy, if meant to be for there's many truths in myths and legends then accuracy is necessary if approached like a vid game no holds barred.

Does public reaction suggest something about western perception of race? Is a double standard at work here?

(R) Of course there is a double standard "division of tribes" (too long of a known by many here explanation)

If the situation were reversed, would public opinion come out in support of a white actor playing an African God as it has for a black actor playing a Norse God? Does this suggest something about the psychology of race perception?

(R) No there would not be support from the majority only by the deep thinkers that know and are the well below minority.

These are things worth considering, because in the end, the conclusions we draw might tell us a lot about the modern concept of race, race relations, and the supposed “roles” various races are expected to play in our contemporary, clearly enlightened culture.

(R) Enlightened? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! ***Catches Breath*** Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaah.

That said....who else is looking forward to seeing this? I know I am :-D

(R) As long as it is not in 3D.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Orion, play Rahne's game, if you Flip "enlightened culture" you will get the real authentic meaning of her double standard talk: by "enlightened," she really means ---> "excrementally Fornicated Nebulous culture"

---> and of course this is my genuine redneck street bum's intellectual interpretation.


Orion7 profile image

Orion7 6 years ago from International

LC....Tis why I laughed!!! Oh and it is *©* , Orion is just another shed layer....


Luminous Musings profile image

Luminous Musings 6 years ago

Acid Rahne says: "...something interesting happens when we invert this question. Suppose for a moment that Hollywood was currently set to produce a film about African Gods. Suppose a white man happens to be caste in the role of an African God, and imagine that ancient African natives are depicted worshipping him in the film. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....Not quite the same situation now, is it?"

LM Responding: What's interesting about this question is that in reality what has been worshipped as the epitome of beauty, God, gods and goddesses, as well as physical aesthetics is and always has been "whiteness" in cultures such as Africa, China, India, etc. That is how deep colonialism is embedded in the human psyche. Think of Rewanda and the Hutus and Tutsis, Chinese and Japanese woman painting their faces white. In this month's Oprah Magazine there is an article about an Indian woman and how in India the lighter your brown skin is the more beautiful you were considered in the culture. Even African women straighten their hair to look more like white women. Odin/Wotan and the Teutonic myths are deeply engrained in Western culture and very much a part of the American landscape here and abroad having a powerful influence over other cultures. A black Odin/Wotan would never fly in the film--It would deviate too much from the archetype of the god, whereupon, the whole purpose of the myth was to awaken the shadow of the god in the recesses of the unconsciousness—dare I say—Western perversions of perfection that have subliminally affected people all over the globe and to this day still do!! (http://aryan-myth-and-metahistory.blogspot.com/200...

With that said—I am looking forward to the film. Interesting thoughts, Rahne. You are a wonderful facilitator in creating amusing and interesting group discussions, and have a very original and creative mind.


Scott J 6 years ago

Lum, nice thoughts.

Rahne, quick question: What are these numbers on the your hub, for example, the one by your image and the second by your title?


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Scott, those are IQ numbers...mine is really low, so I am going to get some tutoring. :-)


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 6 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

See, I don't guess that I knew that you were into comics at all. I know that I never got into them much-but I was just never aware of what was good, and what was. . . .mediocre. Faust, of course, I know is an authority on classic mythology, and (these are probably linked quite a lot), comics.

Russia, I'm told(via National Geographic) got it's name from what the local Slavic folk called the Norsemen who invaded their traditional lands. Most people don't recall learning about Viking invasions of Eastern Europe-but it happened.

After WWIII, a very sad thing happened in Scandinavia-now, nobody should cry for the Nazis, but this concerned children who, well, children are just children-political affiliations do not apply. I'd read (National Geographic again) that Norway declared that the many children produced from swaggering Nazi soldiers and any Norwegian woman(willing or not) could be put into homes. . . . .FOR THE MENTALLY RETARDED. You see, the union of Germany and Scandinavia was supposed to be based upon their shared racial qualities. . . . .but the Norwegians, when it was safe to do so-utterly rejected the Germans.

Black fols in America often never consider the racial history of Europe. Black Americans almost never see past "black and white." Europe often never even got into racism. Europe's racial conflicts always seemed to be "tribal," or "tribalism."

This is probably one of the strangest subjects that I've ever seen turn out as a piece on race relations. You've done a damn fine job of finding a segment of THAT arena that not only hasn't been wore out-but possibly never covered before?

As far as vikings go-I recall that "Russia," acquired it's name from an abrieviated


Acid Rahne profile image

Acid Rahne 6 years ago Author

Todd....feel free to explain the numbers and thingos on the page. i will be back tonight and will be able to leave some REAL replies. It has been a hell of a week.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Myth and reality in history often coincide and sometimes conflict like hell. Todd, with all due respect, you are right on target in some respects about Europe. Other points I would reconsider the terms you are using. Europe's ethnic issues were not necessarily racial nor tribal, but very "feudal" and "territorial." In fact much of our modern corporate capitalism in the multi-national world can be traced, not to "tribal" myth, but to economic behaviors and to to "Feudal" group behavior, sometimes monarchical in some respects, embedded in aristocratic chivalry and oligarchical behaviors of Europe, that led eventually to the colonial powers of Europe conquering varied territories of the world. Myths were and still are mostly psychic elements represented in different fashions. Thus, modern corporate behavior too, and modern movies.

In Japan we can trace many modern powerful families and CEOs to the mythical Samurai families and powerful Shinto worshippers.

As for Russia, as far as I'm concerned, its a very different ball game due to the immensity of the land, and the varied intensity of the ethnic groups, the often corrupt hierarchies, and the varied peoples and their migrations.

Regarding Scandanavian myth and the Vikings I know little, but what coincides with modern reality may be based on the psychic elements of myth and the past elements that built the modern society. Since Scandanavian countries have received multiple ethnic refugess from all over the world, in various time periods. There is no doubt in my mind that a non-Scandanavian actor (Idris Elba) acting out and portraying a mythological figure of a particularly different race is in part an underpinning and a representation of the TOLERANCE of and within a culture for diversity. And Scandanavian countries are known for integrating DIVERSITY of ethnicity and race into their cultures. End of my commentary.

~ V or L


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

This as an act of desperation on the part of those casting the roles. It is sheer fantasy to propose that a "Norse" hero of the past would have been a negro. What we are seeing here is an "African" American's attempt to create a negro hero where there was not one. While it is great to support the empowerment and remedial self esteem training of those living in America who claim to be "African", one might hope that they would begin traveling on the dark continent once in a while in an attempt to find a negro hero of lore. You know...a negro who attempted to selflessly save the entire negro tribe from great peril. Is there such a hero now? Was there such a hero in the past? It is doubtful, Rahne, because the negro race has never been united as a tribe. They battled one another just like every other race has done. The difference is that all the other races seem to have handed down some sort of history that was recorded in such a way that it could not be questioned. Who were the negro heroes of ancient times? Perhaps if we could answer that, they wouldn't feel a need to rape Norse mythology so openly while we sit here wondering what these negro "artists" are trying to prove.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

An act of desperation?!?!? The Movie World Desperate for actors?

African Mythology goes WAY,WAY back in time. Read a little and though varied, African origins are by no means desperate unless someone chooses to be ignorant of Africa. For starters see this:

http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/A-Am/African-Mytho...

Then after your post doctorate education, read on how how Nelson Mandela finally organized to beat the living excrement out the racist, torturous Apartheid... What do racist people need to accept diversity in movie actors and the roles they portray, World History 101?

~ V


Luminous Musings profile image

Luminous Musings 6 years ago

Thanks V for your feedback on myth and reality--that was precisely the point I was trying to make. In addition, when one examines the archetypal aspects of the Vikings/Norse/Teutonic (they all shared the same god/mythology: Wotan/Wodin/Odin) and you apply these myths within the framework of Jung's ideas about the collective unconscious and the shadow--and extended it within philosophical discourses like Heidegger's and his affiliations with Nazism--it all makes sense in terms of how reality and history have some important lessons to learn from myth. Jung actually wrote about this in an essay: All Father Wotan.(http://allfatherwotan.org/essayonwotan.html)


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 6 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

I doubt that Blacks, American or African are behind the situation described here at all. I think we all are aware of the group of individuals who own our media-I won't mention what group they are from, but any research concerning ownership of media outlets will reveal a common element of race.

That can't be disputed-it just is. Also, the unsaid group has a definite political agenda in everything that they do,and within everything we see coming out of the media.

This is just part of it.


Luminous Musings profile image

Luminous Musings 6 years ago

@ Todd's comment..."Black folks in America often never consider the racial history of Europe. Black Americans almost never see past "black and white." Europe often never even got into racism. Europe's racial conflicts always seemed to be "tribal," or "tribalism."

LM's response: The problems in Africa are related to tribal and tribalism and have been for a very long time. Europeans did and do discuss issues of race—it is very much a part of teaching tolerance to their youth—not to mention the current movements there that reignited Aryan ideologies in the Netherlands and Germany, and "Black folks in America” [do] consider the racial history of Europe in their political, philosophical, and social discourses via imperialism and colonialism, because this is very much a part of their history. Black scholars like bell hooks have devoted their writings to race and representation, as well as radical critical self-interrogation within black American culture too. I dare say she does see beyond “black and white” and has devoted her scholarly work to this endeavor. The “whiteness” and privileges in America and Europe, as well as our unconscious biases and prejudices are something to be examined when I speak of our “Western” culture's shadow and history in the context of Norse mythology.


Luminous Musings profile image

Luminous Musings 6 years ago

One last comment to Rahne--the characters you depicted on this page in terms of the ethnic representations work for me. Particularly, if you factor in recent evolutionary/anthropological studies about human migrations from Africa to Europe and our common ancestry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin... as well as what we currently know about the orgin of our Indo-European Languages (http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/general/IE.... It makes perfect sense in this context to portray them in the manner you, the comic book, and film outlined. However, the seriousness that posed your question merited discussion--because, there are old folk tales around the myth that still linger in Western culture, that need to be examined. Lastly, I will give pop culture kudos for the representations that say a thousand words in terms of how far we’ve come ;D


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 6 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

Luminous Musings:

You missed my point, or perhaps I didn't make it very well-In America, and having read every major newspaper at some point or another, and having seen the nightly news in most every part of the country-you see nothing reported but "black and white" politics.

Hollywood? Same thing. It's always black people's struggles against "whites." What the fuck is a "white" person anyway? I'm not "white," I am Scotch/Irish, English, and I have a bit of Native American blood as well. The Native Americans descended from the ancient Mongols who crossed the straight from Russia into Alaska. . . .but I digress.

Europeans are certainly very tribal, and historically I'll have to agree with Lorenzo's comment, meaning that they are more "feudal."

Now you can talk about the Nazi's, etc, hell, you can talk about Mithradates, and how the ancient king used the racial pride of the Greeks to incite an uprising against the Romans during the time just before Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire came about. I just don't care. However, the Romans considered themselves related to the Greeks, and especially, from military pride, the Spartans.

If you asked a common, high school educated black person in America if Slavs were the same thing as an Italian they'd say,

"Shit, dawg, dey all be white folk; you gonna pass dat blunt?"

I rest my case.


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

Ha Ha, Lorenzo. I always love it when the argument is boiled down to a simple brilliant (obviously you) versus the hopelessly ignorant racist (me) for not having been properly exposed to the particular Wikipedia article which has endowed you with a sense of being the advocate for the hopes and dreams of the African peoples.

The jury is still out on Mandela. South Africa; and Zimbabwe in particular doesn't seem to be in very good shape at the moment. From my studies of current events in the area, it seems as if the negroes have become nothing more than brutal toward their white minority. Land grabs, murders, rapes, stealing of farms, slaughter of animals, etc. It would seem that Mandela is just a puppet on a stage. He gives you someone to applaud as a hero while the "real" African negro leaders run around screaming "Kill the Boer" and living high on the hog while the rest of the negroes starve and hope that they'll somehow end up with food on the table at the end of the land grab.


Orion7 profile image

Orion7 6 years ago from International

Heh heh heh!!! Good post Lady AR (almost my favorite initials) Wouldn't t be funny if everyone was wrong? And yet the DNA Time Bomb Ticks on.... We are some foony Hoomans... Keep the good reads coming.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

DSD, you exaggerate a bit like the KKK, but hey you're free and haven't submitted to centuries of weapons in your face. I respect that, it's called the uninformed view, and the unexposed ridicule of a caveman with white skin.

~ V


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Todd your point is clear, and in part VERY exact in particular places. And I know the Ghettos of various cities including Miami, Chicago, Phoenix, Detroit, South Texas Cities, Seattle, Portland, Houston and Various European cities.

I guess we might include that all of these cities also include their minority of educated African Americans (or "Negroes" as DSD refers from old times when whites like him lynched in public) but there are also fast growing numbers of educated blacks, & African refugees in the U.S. and post grads in science and engineering and the arts who don't hold the sole viewpoint you present Todd.

There's also black teachers, coworkers of mine who teach precisely the topics and themes that you mention. So, my point might be, the ghettos and rural areas of the SOUTH U.S. are not the only reality even if they are the dominant ones here in the U.S...


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 6 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

Lorenzo-Of course you are right, and I think the word I used was "majority." Just because a majority of the U.S. voted Bush into office twice only means that half of our population is retarded.

When I say that the majority of blacks wouldn't know that a blond man from the Ukraine was highly unlikely to be related to a blond man from Germany-and that the largest majority would not know that the two blond men considered themselves to be from a different race altogether-that is all that I mean.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Understood and agreed...


Luminous Musings profile image

Luminous Musings 6 years ago

Respectfully Todd--be nice. I have more hope and optimistic views than the ones you stated about our youth and blacks. You're right about me not being able to follow the thread of your thought with respect to Rahne's question, Norse mythology, and race perception. You state, "in most every part of the country-you see nothing reported but "black and white" politics." And then question, "What the fuck is a "white" person anyway?" While you explain this in the context of being a Heinz 57--It still begs the question about what black and white means to you personally. I hear you when you say, "Now you can talk about the Nazi's, etc, hell, you can talk about Mithradates, and how the ancient king used the racial pride of the Greeks to incite an uprising against the Romans during the time just before Julius Caesar and the Roman Empire came about. I just don't care." However, I feel you missed my point with your "I don't care." Because what I wrote about came out of a place of deeply caring about the psychological implications of the Nordic myth as it pertains to our history and current times. Lastly, if indeed it is true that our “common, high school educated black person in America, would say “"Shit, dawg, dey all be white folk; you gonna pass dat blunt?"” when you asked them if Slavs and Italians were the same—Well, in my humble opinion it would be no different than saying I don’t care. Quite honestly, I’m not sure which is worse. The inherent prejudices and biases in all of your statements further contribute to a political discourse on oppression and negation. Of course, that was what you meant to do. With that said—I’ll pass the blunt to you!


Acid Rahne profile image

Acid Rahne 6 years ago Author

@ Faust

I'm with you 100%, as well as with Lorenzo and anyone who has commented in a similar vein in terms of Heimdall's race. It doesn't break the story. As it stands the precedent is already set with Hogun the Grim, who is remarkably Asian looking for a warrior of Asgard. And to be honest with you, Marvel's take on the Asgardian cosmology is remarkably slim despite how long the comic book has been in print....ANYTHING which broadens the range of the cosmology....whether it simply means that Asgardians are more diverse than the Norsemen who worshipped were aware or if they have continual contact with other pantheons...is a GOOD thing.

Check out this link to a Novel on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Viking-Bill-Downey/dp/...

It seems someone else had the idea first! And the story actually looks engrossing...

@ Orion

LOL Lorenzo pretty much summed up my opinion. We are far from enlightened. As a people, a nation, a culture. I speak for the United States And Britain AND Ireland.

As Faust stated earlier, I think anyone who is reasonably intelligent would glance at the black man in Viking armour and initially think “HUH???” Then I believe that the majority of us would quickly dismiss it, cast aside in favour of the suspension of disbelief required to enjoy a movie about a Super hero who smashes things with a great big hammer. The fact that people are actually making a vocal issue about it gives me.....pause. The fact that people are commenting about it so frequently makes me wonder about them.

YET. And here is the crux.

As true as that is, the inversion of the question presents us with a certain, at least hypothetical, picture of hypocrisy at work. It demonstrates the ease with which everyone's position could be diametrically opposed if the circumstances were just a little different. And this means we have a LOT of work to do in all corners of western culture.

@ Luminous

Here is a different approach to the question and one I hadn't even considered. You are right. Some of the most beautiful black women in entertainment, Halle Berry, Alecia Keys, Rihanna, et cetera are considered beautiful specifically because of their strikingly Caucasian features...although I don't think many people would say that out loud. I don't have much of anything positive to say about this, I am also a victim of popular conceptions of beauty...I shape myself in order to conform to them. I am told in the Old West, heavier girls were considered the sexiest. Had I been born a century or so ago....would I now be eating more in order to look the part of beautiful? The answer is more than likely “with absolute certainty.”

Culture defines what is beautiful. We seek to attain beauty. I couldn't say if I think this is right or wrong, or if it is simply a fact which exists beyond right and wrong. But at least for now, our aesthetics are decidedly Nordic in origin.

Often I have been told to “go blonde.”

Comment replies will continue in a moment as I continue reading. Bear with me...I am still getting used to this format :-P


Luminous Musings profile image

Luminous Musings 6 years ago

@ Rahne--"at least for now, our aesthetics are decidedly Nordic in origin." Yes, thank you for recognizing this. That is exactly the point. The Nordics/Vikings have had a huge impact on Western culture. So much so that in Rwanda these aesthetics caused one of the greatest human genocides--let us not forget this to be so in Nazi Germany as well. There is a shadow side to all of this that requires a certain kind of mindfulness that the hero in myths must psychologically transcend--it is no different in real life. It means metaphorically killing the blond beast as representing the unconscious complex of white supremacy. There's an interesting article written by the black feminist, bell hooks that discusses female representations of white women in black culture. It is a different perspective than what is commonly discussed in our culture--yet, one I'm convinced we need to discuss more as I spend time reading the prevailing discourses by some of the educated on blogs throughout myspace and beyond. The article is a bit dated, but represents views she still writes about: (http://stevenstanley.tripod.com/docs/bellhooks/mad...


Luminous Musings profile image

Luminous Musings 6 years ago

Sorry, the link above didn't work. If you Google the title below it will lead you to the right location.

"Madonna: Plantation Mistress or Soul Sister?"

by bell hooks

From 'Black Looks: Race and Representation'


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

Funny thing about most people who claim to be adept at European culture is that we never seem to hear any of them speak about Franconia. The people in Europe have been scattered and flattered in a thousand ways off and on going back hundreds of years. No telling who banged who back in the day. Nobody talks about Franconia when they talk about European history. It is an elusive topic; and yet, a huge portion of Europe once was Franconia. So all of this rubbish about who is from Germany, France, and all those other little countries in there becomes a little bit less meaningful when we begin considering that most of 'em don't even know their own history. They've been hammered time and time again by propaganda and war, and taught a bastardized view of history just like we have over here in the USA. Mix in a bit of afro-centric bullshit and it really starts getting convoluted. Go ahead and have your Viking God with a freaking afro. Doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. Geez.


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

Lorenzo, I've spent a fair share of time in some crappy African American ghetto hoods, and I've done my fair share of offering generosity towards my colored cousins. I spent more time chattering WITH "real" negroes when I was in the Army than you could ever hope to do while you sit around having intellectual conversastions ABOUT them from a distance. I played with with bratty negro kids when I lived on the navy base growing up and when I lived in shitty blue collar surroundings. I've been around negroes, my friend. I've been friends with negroes. But I've had my fill of loud obnoxious ones as well. I've had 'em threaten to "cut" me before because they were not satisfied with the strength of their liquor drink at the bar. I've had 'em trash my rental properties, and I've witnessed them playing the race card during business transactions. Funny thing... the conversation was about whether a black Viking hero was appropriate. My point was that in all my years of being around a lot more blacks than you could probably imagine, I have NEVER ONCE heard any of them talking about African mythology. You would like me to carry some white guilt because they somehow lost touch with that. So I axe you, Lorenzo... who is going to carry the guilt for having cut off MY ties with MY ancestry? Who is going to feel sorry for poor little DSD because his cousins in Europe probably got cooked in ovens or slaughtered in trenches so that the fancy suited fellas on the hill and in the castles could have their NWO pipe dream where the little negro babies apparently are the chosen ones (at least according to Kanye West in his latest song).

Heroes and villains are just written into the script. you'd like to play the role of hero on behalf of the negroes while I play the role of the villain. That is fine. But at the end of the day, the fancy suited fellows are simply trying to fulfill Trotsky's dream of turning all the white people into, as he called it, "white negroes" while their own families remain elite and racially pure.

Social engineering is a wonderful fiasco. But I am the evil one for merely making the observations that your club memberships forbid you from acknowledging.


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

I'm sorry, Rahne. Your blog was about "the questions that followed". Perhaps it would be best to axe questions about the Black Viking God instead of making statements. Such as:

1. Has his DNA been sampled so that we may tell which region of Africa his ancestors were from?

2. Does he wear a do-rag under his helmet?

3. Does he date one of the Kardashian sisters? I hear they are size queens.

4. Which gang is he loyal to?

5. For which secret society does he perform his "good" works?

blah blah blah. I think I'm going to start drinking vodka again today. Thanks.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

I knew this guy was military, and a Vodka drinking buffoon who thinks Franconia and military drills for other ethnicities define the world. Ghettos and your childhood are not the defining category of blacks, negroes, Africans in the world bud, grow up and go to AA DSD, you need a break from your insular weapon world of bombs and childish propaganda.


Luminous Musings profile image

Luminous Musings 6 years ago

LOL..I think DSD is on LSD. Between Todd's "blunt" and this we've got some wild hallucinations running amok! ;0)


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

Lorenzo. It amuses me how quickly you are able jump to conclusions and summarize the lives of those you feel superior to during blog commentary, and yet, you think me the buffoon for not agreeing with you regarding the current status of negroes in the world.

Luminous. Trust me, man. If I had some LSD, I'd be far far away from this stinking pc. I'd be about 10 miles West of here staring at the Gulf of Mexico and contemplating how an entire globe full of nitwits could be so easily decieved.

You are thrilled that a negro actor gets to put on a helmet and pretend to be a viking hero?

You probably just loved that Spike Lee movie the other year too, "Miracle at Saint Anna". Spike likes to fool his fellow negroes into believing that the Buffalo Soldiers accomplished more than just being cannon fodder during WWII. Let the negroes have their fantasy. I suppose it's good to build their esteem.

This is fun, guys. It kind of reminds me of elementary school a little bit. The "smart" intellectual types like YOU were busy jerking each other off in the corner while making fun of stupid jackasses like me for sitting in the other corner with all the negro kids.

Bottom line is this, DUDES: I am willing to bet that in YOUR life you have told more lies to, used, and crapped on more negroes than I ever did. You only tell 'em what you want 'em to hear because you want them to buy whatever brand of BS you are selling 'em. For example...a negro Viking Hero.

What a bunch of stinking drivel! You must be on LSD or hallucinating to believe some swill like that.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Superior? You, friendly Drill Sargeant, have stated clearly that you feel superior to other races in your statements and blogs, and you exemplify the best of ignorance on varied aspects. Your buffoonery is stated in the majority of your reasoning DSD, or lack thereof. Let your neo-cortex grow up before time takes you and your bigotted rationale into oblivion, and stop thinking everyone is your soldier... You mentioned VODKA as your outlet, go have some, you'll need it to face other creative thinkers. Lastly, you don't know one iota of who I am, so bug off and spray a little deet down your throat as a favor to everyone here...

Then again there are respectable soldiers, and buffoonery that exemplifies other attitudes of complete intolerance. Respond as you will, your knowledge is at best childish.

~ V


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

How very typical, and quite predictable, Lorenzo, for an intellectual beacon such as you to suggest a twelve step program for that which you perceive to be white trash as you run around the world kissing black arses in the name of equanimity, equality, or some other tweaked up virtue or another. You've probably slung more than your fair share of propaganda into cyberspace. I don't create propaganda. But I like to chew it up and digest it. Who else is going to sift through the b.s. and tell us all what is to be believed? You? The media?

Negro, please.

As for the vodka...I don't drink it. I only pour it. Except when I am perfecting a recipe for the bar.

I just love it when an intellectual type uses the "grow up" argument against a simple statement. "See things my way and believe all of my observations or you must be a deluded child".

Funny thing... That's the same philosophy used by FOX News to sell the war(s).

And yet...I'm a "buffoon" for having served a couple of years in the military when I was 19-20 years old. Golly. It must be awful to contemplate that someone would attain some sort of knowledge from that experience other than what you received while banging little college boys in your dorm room at that same age.


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

You are placing words in my mouth, Lorenzo C. I never claimed to be superior to the negroes. In fact. I am beneath them. I am subservient to them. For example, there is a negro puppet in the White House today doing the "good works" that will ensure the misery of thousands of buffoons like me for decades to come. But I'm sure you enjoy being a part of that. Afterall, it is fun for a superior soul such as you to recommend pesticide for the likes of me. Vodka is not REALLY my cup of tea, Lorenzo. But I think I'll do the right thing here and "offer you the victory". I'll pour a shot in your honor today, while I recite some Kipling and belch real loud; maybe even fart in the wind.

You've obviously evolved. I have not. I'm just a buffoon. It's YOU that's going to save the world from the evil likes of me. I'm the evil one for questioning the crap I'm currently observing. Those who do not run with the designated herds or fall at the feet of our glorious intellectual and spiritual benefactors are obviously too defective and deluded to be kept.

Perhaps the super computer will place dum asses like me on the "to be discarded" list when the next round of slaughtering begins. They always keep intellectual phenomenons like you around after it's over to enforce the new "belief systems" that are installed in the sheeples.


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

Reasoning Lorenzo's way:

"Some Jew on the telly told me to believe a certain thing, therefore it is true."

"White people are evil because the Jews and the Negroes and the illegal aliens from Mexico told me so."

"White people are to blame for all the problems on the planet."

That's bloody freaking brilliant, man!

The world is safe in your hands.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

;-) The buffonery was once again, in statements you make, not in what you "believe," nor for serving in the military. My own brother served.

I neither know nor care what you believe, nor that you serve 2 or 20 years. A simple set of statements, and a naïve set of statements are indeed different.

What I perceive and what you perceive are phenomenally distinct, my perception is quite different than your notion of me perceiving you as "white Trash." I never said nor thought you were "white trash" by you asserting a "negro" as an incompetent depiction of a mythical figure from northern Europe.

"White Trash" NO, naïve and without a comprehensive panorama, YES...

I, like others, perceive dogma, bigotry, intolerance and hatred like others who are psychologically considered "grown up adults," OFTEN in one momentary instance and via INSTINCT.

I am neither superior, nor inferior to you, nor faithful to one single channel of news, nor to one language. I read English, Spanish, French, German, Portugese and some Italian for news sources. When I was 19 I was living in France with a neurophysiologist, and ethnically, Palestinians had bombed a few places in Paris.

Hey, I accept your opinion on this Character portrayal, but disagree with your view of a "yet to see" movie character. The manner by which you presented your view via your statements, I found very naïve and limited in scope, So what? I get labeled as "superior" or as "banging" college boys"? Slander is your game, and you love it... Your behavior genuinely exemplifies a Sadistic pig. Capiche?

End of story...

~ L


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

To summarize DSD's intellectual perpectives: He will write a novel of the century about Rush Limbaugh, in honor of his HERO.

Then he will compile the Encyclopedia of White Supremacy dating back to ancient Europe.

He will then focus on the future of his Self-Help career, and title his book "How To Whack Off to your Own Thoughts & Remain Sadistic & Make Fewer Stupid Remarks."

Thank you for a fun conversation DSD, it was fun.

~ L


Luminous Musings profile image

Luminous Musings 6 years ago

Thank you, Todd for the personal message and thoughtfulness behind it :)


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 6 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

Concerning the numbers attached to both hubs, and hubbers-I'd first of all like you all to know that these numbers are not static. These numbers will change daily. Since THIS hub has been published, my personal number has gone from 93, to 94, to 91, and down to 90.

Those are the highest numbers, by far, that I've ever had.

The numbers are scores. It's hubpages rating YOU. I want everyone to know that I've never got into the 90's with the scores on any hub that I've published, but this means nothing-any of my hubs, or your hubs-can be edited, or even without editing can still rise significantly in score.

Here's how. 1. Be specific. name what you are talking about-use the most specific details possible if you can do so without taking away from your writing. 2. Use pictures and videos. 3. The more comments the better.

I've only recently gotten high scores. I sleep well without them, and they might all tank tomorrow-or they might all hit one hundred. :-D


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Todd, you get 100 for leading people over here, I'm gonna write the programmers to give you 190 for kindness.

~ L



DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

Lorenzo. For one who claims to be brilliant, you sure do know how to misread simple statements. I've never been a Limbaugh fan or a white supremacist. I can't stand the fat white bastard. I don't hate "others" for being different than me. I've just become cynical of their reasons for wanting me to be more accepting of their blatant rape of the world in which I live.

As for slander, I believe it was YOU who first started slinging the slander. You even told me to drink poison. That's because guys like you run around claiming that you want to make the world a better place, but at the end of the day your solution ends up being no different than that of a street thug, "agree with me or go kill yourself". Yes...indeed...you are a world class citizen of the globe...you'll definitely leave a legacy of peace and love in YOUR wake.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Misread? No, I said try some "Deet" so that your remarks might stop. But you never stop do ya. That is the mark of a complete buffoon head to toe. Read all YOUR OWN remarks and you appear like a complete racist.

Lastly, I gave you a bit of the medicine what WE got from you, BIGOTRY.

Now, do everyone an intellectual favor and go whack off.

~ L


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Wow, I claimed to be brilliant? Where? Here are a few of your complete ignorant remarks.

DSD said...

"You know...a negro who attempted to selflessly save the entire negro tribe from great peril. Is there such a hero now? Was there such a hero in the past? It is doubtful,"

Read some history, maybe some civil rights History in the U.S., and go to Africa or you will continually make clown statements. Go to South Africa for starters...

Go to the Martin Luther King Museum in Atlanta. Educate yourself so that remarks like that don't make you look like you a full of racial ignorance.

~ L


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

My original remark was not racist at all. It was a clearly stated observation regarding a continued effort on the part of those who create "pop culture" to engage in remedial self-esteem training for negroes here in America. Just like Disney finally unveiling a little black "princess" in their latest movie. It's a mere observation. Did you grow up in a different world than I? In my 45 years in the American Southeast all I have seen is a constant bombardment of "save the negroes" propaganda. It is not racist to make that observation. And yet, in your very first comment to me on this blog you come off as a prissy little fella who unleashes the "racist" name calling right away. You have been "taught" by the propagandists to use that term immediately any time a discussion about a racial issue comes up. You sling it. You unleash it. And you immediately assume that you are speaking to someone without an edumacation. You got BIGOTRY from me. I got PRISSY LITTLE FAG SCHOOL BOY from you.

Then you wrap things up by suggesting that I should go masturbate. That's just brilliant. Please send me a picture of your mother so I can get started right away.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

No one taught me any propaganda. You're a real clown bud, heck, with your mentality as as reflected by your statements, it might actually be nice for you to get laid by someone that you haven't attempted to rape.

Fag school boy? You're a mentally challenged riot of a joke.

Observations by you? Looks like opinions to most people. Obviously unreliable observations, You seem to need a better prescription for your eyes...and it might help ya read some history, in between those observations...

Everybody in this forum obviously loves you for your wonderful observations, but if ya really want my Mom's photo you'll have be nice and listen and observe your own self inflicted cognitive and emotional deficiencies, since they are abundant.

~ L


Acid Rahne profile image

Acid Rahne 6 years ago Author

I'm going to make a general statement of conduct. I'm fine when people disagree. I'm even fine when people are snotty to one another, a little crude. I'm not uptight and I can take a punch. I sure as bloody hell can punch back. But I'm going to ask politely, just one time without singling anyone out, to please disagree and argue in a controlled manner that doesn't fuck the blog for anyone else who wants to participate. People here are my friends, I respect everyone. Even those of you who I don't know very well....I invite you to have your say even if what you're saying violates what I myself believe. I will give you do respect, but if you cannot respect me or the other people who I call friend then WE can't be friends.

So please. Calm it down.


Acid Rahne profile image

Acid Rahne 6 years ago Author

As far as race is concerned, I find the topic virtually meaningless even though I understand that other people do not. The point of this blog was not to demonstrate something about race, but to demonstrate how easily the roles in the argument could be switched about had the circumstances of the film been just a little different, and to show people how easily we are guilty of the very same hypocrisies.

What has race to do with conduct? Are there white people who behave like trash? Asians? We are defined by culture and by upbringing, the place we are born and the method in which we are raised.

More and more, races mingle in marriage, in love, sometimes simply in lust to produce children. And the world is shrinking. So as Todd says, What is a white man? Well, what is a black man? What am I? My family has intermarried with Spaniards to the extent that my complexion, hair texture and eye colour reflect it. I am I less Irish? Less “White?”

More and more you find subculture replacing the lines of division that were once constituted by race. You find white rappers, black punk rockers, an endless array of self descriptions in a variety of colours and life styles. People decide who they wish to be.

Yes, this blog was in fact meant to illustrate a double standard but the age of black & white is slowly, inexorably, drawing to a close. I think it's high time we embraced that future, if we are to have one.


Luminous Musings profile image

Luminous Musings 6 years ago

"the age of black & white is slowly, inexorably, drawing to a close. I think it's high time we embraced that future, if we are to have one." I wish that were true, sweet Rahne--but as you can see by the blood spilled throughout these discussions it isn't that simple. It should be that simple, but it isn't. Until then we must keep singing the same song of tolerance and peace to our youth, to our peers, to our colleagues in our communities, schools, etc. There is a resource I use in the classroom that sets up guidelines for communication on this topic that I will post here. It is good that you are requesting boundaries and courtesy on your blog.

Lastly, yes we must embrace the future if we are going to have one. :)


Luminous Musings profile image

Luminous Musings 6 years ago


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

Nice link, Luminous. The difference is that if we were actually in a college class, then the original hurler of insults on this blog would not have immediately jumped to the conclusion that those he despises for their views are "undereducated" or somehow suffering from not having read all of the appropriate history books.

I'm sorry, Rahne. I didn't mean to crap all over your new blog page. It was never my intention. If this was a "real" classroom setting I would have walked in quietly, taken off my hat, and sat down quietly on a pillow in the front row to get a better view of the teacher while SHE directed the conversation.

But I was immediately ambushed when I made my presence known. I don't know about you, but when someone I have never even met starts insulting my intelligence without ever having actually met me, I tend to either adopt a very defensive stance or rush the ambush with a full offensive attack of my own. So I impulsively crapped on your page. Please forgive me. I will use better judgement in the future.

So to avoid such an occurrence in the future, perhaps Rahne, you could have all visitors to your page submit a full set of college transcripts and an annotated bibliography to Lorenzo; allowing him to review their credentials and educational history to ensure that they've been exposed to all of the "correct" versions of "history" from "reliable" sources prior to commenting on your page. Then he would feel less need to jump out of the crowd and rush those who attempt to enter the commentary with subtle little assertions that they may not have the proper credentials to make a thought provoking point.

God forbid that any of the "feeble minded" in the crowd might make any utterance which disturbs those who simply cannot be bothered while they are so thoroughly engaged in heavy contemplation.

I will return to my learning pillow now, Rahne. Please forgive the disturbance. I will not so much as even fart in your classroom again. You have my full and utmost attention.

I believe we were discussing a "double standard" of some sort or another. Please proceed.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Rahne,"We are defined by culture and by upbringing, the place we are born and the method in which we are raised."

While beautifully, succinctly, and insightfully stated, We are also defined by exposure to all the subcultures of the world, flesh to flesh, eye to eye, senses to senses. Call it love or lust, hormones or instincts interacting or whatever, you are right on target.

Twain had a poignant view when he stated and captured this idea:

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."

- Mark Twain


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 6 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

. . . .and our worlds are all becoming smaller! We can get all kinds of information right here in front of the computer-but it's not the same. I've been all over this country. I've been to Canada(briefly), and I've spent weeks in Mexico(living with Mexicans)-but I want to go to EUROPE!


DSD profile image

DSD 6 years ago from Florida

How far around the world must one travel in order to gain enough perspective to render an opinion regarding what has been transpiring right in ones own backyard?


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

DSD, nothing against you nor your experience. Obviously my experience is different and we are different. My entire life has been languages and sensory abilities and disabilities. In reference to Todd's view, YES, Information is now FAST and sensory experience during the lifetime of different people from different PLACES and culture is undoubtedly different also (as stated by Rahne).

I have family here in the U.S., in Europe, Spain and France, and South America, friends in Brazil South Africa and Asia. YES, views toward race, myth, MOVIES and culture DIFFER SO MUCH everywhere DSD, you are entitled to your opinion and as I stated before, attitudes conflict and coincide.

That was one main point altogether.

I accept your opinion (as previously stated) but in a gigantic PANORAMA of experienced and educated opinions, the statement of not knowing nor having (paraphrased) "a negro hero who selflessly saved a tribe from peril" nor an American who has currently granted "self esteem" in real life would be considered fairly Prejudiced by SOME fellow teachers of African origin or teachers who have experience American sub-culture in MANY ways.

I am no expert, and require nothing but your genuine experience, but there are many UNRECOGNIZED heroes in this large world. Skin color, nor written documentation is necessary, that is one point Rahne made.

So, to be crystal clear, no need for a bibliography.

To accept prejudices is no crime, nor is it a terrible occurrence to accept negative experiences from the past and present an opposing view as you or I or anyone does on blogs.

I hold no grudges and travel as far as your heart desires.

~ L


The_Great_Stardog profile image

The_Great_Stardog 6 years ago

There were no dark skinned people there at that time PERIOD!

As DSD said, "This as an act of desperation on the part of those casting the roles. It is sheer fantasy to propose that a "Norse" hero of the past would have been a negro. What we are seeing here is an "African" American's attempt to create a negro hero where there was not one. "

How often do they cast white guys on shows or films seen on BET? And the ones that are cast are portrayed as weak and dumb.

I think poor Lorenzo has been brainwashed by our evil media.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

I think Stardog has the mind of precisely a well trained dog. He needs to accept his master is propaganda buffoons who have little creativity and ZERO imagination. Who cares how often they cast different colored people, look at quality you mentally handicapped "homogenous" minded movie critic.

Do you know what "homogenous" mean Mr. Greatness? It is the equivalent of a single minded uncreative satire prone pig.

~ L


The_Great_Stardog profile image

The_Great_Stardog 6 years ago

Poor Lorenzo likes to think he is something with his big words. Just another poor media-controlled idiot.


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Well Mr. Greatness, whether you are a really just a pig or a dog or a rat is debatable... you exemplify pure brilliance as a repugnant clown, media brainwashed and really lacking in any intelligent lexicon. Go read and play with your genitals you nursery school boy.

~ L


Lorenzo C 6 years ago

Mr. Greatness, if you were less of a coward, you would show your FACE, and not present yourself as an obese rabbit icon.

Most fat rabbits never survive to see another day, they simply die with their lethargy and addiction. You might consider changing your profile photo, you would appear more respectably, and present yourself as a repulsive body part, an Obese Rabbit with a dark anus hole for a brain.

~ V


ripplemaker profile image

ripplemaker 6 years ago from Cebu, Philippines

Special Correspondent Ripplemaker wishes you a hearty congratulations on your Hubnuggets nomination. To view it, click here: http://hubpages.com/hubnuggets6/hub/The-Hubnugget-... Vote and promote. Have fun!


epigramman profile image

epigramman 6 years ago

....well I love your culture ..... but to tell you the truth it took me so long to scroll down to the bottom of this screen that two things happened:

1. they now spell culture with a capital 'K'

2. there are no super heroes left - well, except for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


dahoglund profile image

dahoglund 6 years ago from Wisconsin Rapids

The idea of recycling ancient mythological characters has been around for a long time.Many of the superheroes have there roots in mythology.


Acid Rahne profile image

Acid Rahne 6 years ago Author

Very true, Dahoglund. Some people even claim Superman, whose creaters were Jewish, might have a little Messiah in him....and more than a little Samson. (I don't know if this is true.) But the fact that superheroes so obviously have mythological roots make it all the more strange that there is a controversy over the casting of a black man in the role of a Norse God. WHO CARES!?!?! IT'S FANTASY!!!


M. T. Dremer profile image

M. T. Dremer 6 years ago from United States

I remember I was surprised to see that Grover was African American in the big screen adaptation of Percy Jackson and the Olympians. I don't remember him being described that way in the books. But ultimately I liked the actor who portrayed him. Hollywood loves to change things up. Maybe they like the shock value. I always wait to judge it based on the actors ability to make me believe they are who they say they are. A lot of good movies have actors that don't match the race of their character (ancient egypt movies are big offenders of this). But if the actor is convincing and I have fun watching the movie, it doesn't bother me at all.


PWalker281 6 years ago

Great hub! Welcome to HubPages and congrats on your nomination. I, like you, adore anything sci-fi/fantasy and will in all likelihood check out this movie.

Casting Idris Elba as a Viking doesn't bother me, although if I'm going to be honest here, I'd be a little ticked off if a white person was cast as an African God. My excuse? I'm a child of the 50s and have vivid memories of segregation and discrimination. Race is clearly still a "hot topic" if the comments here are any indication. Hopefully, in generations to come, it won't matter.


Truthsayer 5 years ago

Blacks have had to suffer through white actors playing historical figures that were known to be black time and time again. As for "gods", the Greek gods were none other than the Egyptian gods which the Greeks adopted (or stole) depending on your perspective. Do the history (i.e. Zeus Ethiops): http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.ph...

If it weren't for the numerous injustices of black roles being played by whites I'm sure it wouldn't matter to blacks if a traditionally black role were played by a white. It is only because the field has been so unlevel for so long and the fact that we still have LONG way to go still that this would be an issue. So I say casting Idris Elba is one small step. I think it's hypocritical that there is no outcry from whites against the portrayal of African historical figures such as Cleopatra and Hannibal by whites yet people actually have the nerve to take issue with Elba playing Heimdall???


Truthsayer 5 years ago

In response to the claim that there were no dark skinned people there during that time period...read this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=JMY1p0t_bHoC&pg=P...

It is a fact that mankind migrated out of Africa to populate the entire world so "black" people have existed everywhere. Due to adaptation the various characteristics that we now in mankind exist. What we call "race" is an artificial construct...in truth there is only one race, the human race. Africa is the mother of us all...recognize and appreciate her.


Acid Rahne profile image

Acid Rahne 5 years ago Author

Nobody actually knows if Cleopatra or Hannibal were black. If you read Herodotus, you will see the Egyptians were racially varied. Also, Carthage was founded by Phoenicians (essentially Caananites) so they likely would have looked like the present day Lebanese, in other words, Middle Eastern. In classical writings they were sometimes noted to have red hair.

And I already know that black people existed in Europe....but I wasn't discussing Europe. I was discussing Asgard. Asgard doesn't really exist, and it's populated by figures born out of the imaginations of vikings. Present day swedes and norwegians are mostly blonde and blue eyed for a reason, which is, the Vikings killed and enslaved outsiders.

There are really only three “races” which are Caucasian, Mongolian, African...the designations are useful to anthropologists who want to know how different people developed and migrated in different parts of the world. But if you were correct and race was an artificial construct...why would anyone care who played Cleopatra? I certainly don't care who played Heimdall, but I'm from Ireland, not Scandinavia, so it's not part of my cultural heritage.

The point of this essay is pretty basic. I think it's stupid to get upset over a black man playing Heimdall, and the outcry I was hearing at the time of writing this hub bothered me, offending my sense of justice. However...it's a two way street – I think people are equal. If it's fine for a black man to play a white character then I don't think it should be especially upsetting if a white man played a black character and that is something I wanted people to really think about.

It either IS or ISN'T okay for someone to play a character not traditionally of their race. If it were made a maxim, that is to say, “It's okay for black people but not for white people,” how does that sound? It sounds racist in and of itself.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Othello.

Apart from that the comments were amusing and very heated! and I'm glad I found the hub, looked for DSD and saw that he has been banned form the Hub, anybody know what he did to get that?

Lorenzo of course was a sock puppet, so he did not need to get banned.

Strange range of debate for a fictional/mythical situation, must try to see the film!

John


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

This is more brilliant to me now, perhaps, than it was before. I don't think I properly caught all of your knowledge of the mythology as I should - or if I did, then I'd forgotten over the past year.

In any case, I appreciate you're being a peace maker. Persons with that attribute were promised a nice inheritance somewhere or another :-/


Ralph Deeds profile image

Ralph Deeds 5 years ago

Impressive article, even though I'm a fan of realistic movies, drama and literature. Well done.


hiit 4 years ago

I really like your hub, thank you for putting it up .

Ron from Fitness http://www.intervalstraining.net


Dee 3 years ago

White men and women have been portraying African kings and queens for years! They still everyone's culture and now it's a problem because a Norse god is black...


Wesman Todd Shaw profile image

Wesman Todd Shaw 3 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

Liz Taylor was hot...but I kinda spit on her portrayal of Cleopatra.

If we want to be fair though, we DO COMPLAIN when one race is skipped over for favoring one that probably shouldn't be playing the role...just like I just did with Liz and Cleopatra.


Kamagate from Africa 2 years ago

I don't recall being told about no Viking Black God when I was growing up in my village in Africa, if anything we would have run away had we bumped into one in the forest. Man!!! What nonsense is this? The world's gone loco. Easy with this, Hollywood people. We don't like competition.

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