The most ridiculous religious argument ...EVER!

God the author of our existence?
God the author of our existence?

aguasilver states the following....

"The bible clearly tells us that God has predestined all mankind to either salvation or damnation, we have no sway in this matter, God decides who will be blessed or not.

God knows their condition before they are born.

Unbelievers are incensed that God has not consulted them, but although they can come to faith (I was 41 before I stopped my rebellion) it's God, not us that has decided their condition."

Let us set aside the reasons why I am not a believer. I have stated them before, and will probably state them again, but let us assume for the moment that I am merely a lost soul who, as yet, has not found God, but am willing to keep studying and keep looking.

Well, if I was to accept the above quote, by fellow Hubber aguasilver, my immediate reaction would be, why bother to keep looking?

If it is true that God knows us, and the path that we will take, even before we are born, the notion of us having the option to find salvation becomes redundant. If "God has predestined all mankind to either salvation or damnation", then it would appear that we are but characters in a book whose fate has been decided in advance by the author, and regardless of what we believe or don't believe, our destiny is already signed, sealed and delivered.

Such an argument blatantly contradicts the notion of free will. We actually have NO choice. God has already MADE the choice on our behalf. If indeed this is the way of the Lord, then a murderer would be justified claiming in a court of law, "I have not sinned. I have performed an act that was predestined by God, for which I cannot be held personally responsible."

By the same token, a true Christian would have to draw the line at condemning Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Harold Shipman, et al, for their atrocities, on the grounds that they were acting as God dictated in His masterplan.

Well forgive me for being self-righteous, but I happen to believe that I DO have choices, between good and evil. My conscience guides me in every decision that I make, and when I make a bad decision, I take personal responsibility for it.

Furthermore, if God has already predestined damnation for a percentage of the population, from where can we draw the notion that He is a loving God? What parent would bring a child into the world with the certain knowledge that the child was going to burn in the eternal hell fires? There is no rhyme nor reason to such a notion!

If predestintion is a truth, then I am not writing this because I am an atheist, but because God is in control of what I write!

aguasilver claims to have been 41 before ceasing to rebel against God, and yet, how can it be 'rebellion' when it was clearly NOT aginst God, but actually by God's design?

So please declare your hand, aguasilver. Either predestination is a nonsense, or free will is a nonsense. You can't have it both ways!

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Comments 41 comments

thebrucebeat profile image

thebrucebeat 5 years ago from Nags Head, NC

The age old conflict between Arminianism and Calvinism. This argument has raged for centuries. I agree with you, that Calvinism makes our strivings pointless. Some people are comforted by the notion that they have been chosen, that they are among the elected few. This would not represent a God I would be inclined to worship, but if they are comforted, then their ideas have served their purpose, I suppose.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Hi,

I chanced upon this, though I guess someone may have notified me it was up before long.

You have a problem with Gods omniscience, that sneaky ability to know everything.

Ever seen a film for the second time? - you would know before the titles rolled what happened to the main character in the end, may even wish that the director (you) had cut it differently, but you KNOW the films ending before you watch it.

Omniscience gets a whole lot of people confused and annoyed.

Yes God knows what YOU will do in the end, for He can see your end, knows it BEFORE you are conceived, and definitely before WE know what we are going to do.

Some of us come to love Him and want to spend eternity with Him, and some don't like that notion, and choose NOT to spend eternity with Him, and God knows which choice we have made in temporal matters, but seen from a spiritual stance, because after all, the spiritual world is the REAL world, and this physical plain is actually just a mirage created to allow us to decide which way we will go.

Does God interfere, shape our destiny?

I would guess He attempts to guide us back to safety when we veer off course, but it really does depend upon US to choose God or NO GOD for our eternal lives.

Now naturally, if you are a loving God, a God who has to accommodate EVERY soul for eternity, you will listen to your creations desires and grant them, so when someone, by their choice or by their actions, creates a situation where they either do not want, or are disqualified from being with God for eternity, then God has an obligation to provide a place where all those folk can be together for eternity, which is probably why they call it hell.

I don't really want to try to answer this in a comments box, let's see what your readers commentary runs to, and maybe I will hub you back, meanwhile thanks for reading my hub (which one was it?) it may be an idea to post a link to my hub, so that your readers can decide how ridiculous my argument actually is?

Or is that a might too much like fair play?

John


Thatguypk profile image

Thatguypk 5 years ago Author

Hello John,

The argument that I was quoted from you was not from a Hub at all... it was a comment you made on a discussion thread... the thread which asked the question, Should Christians bother to enter into debate with unbelievers?

Apologies, I most certainly should have named the reference point.

As to your argument in response to this Hub, I'm sorry to say it makes as little logical sense as your first argument. Consider the paragraph:

"Now naturally, if you are a loving God, a God who has to accommodate EVERY soul for eternity, you will listen to your creations desires and grant them, so when someone, by their choice or by their actions, creates a situation where they either do not want, or are disqualified from being with God for eternity, then God has an obligation to provide a place where all those folk can be together for eternity, which is probably why they call it hell."

The notion of predestination renders your observations redundant, for the choices and desires of SOME of his creations, and the actions that they take have been dictated by the creator himself.

I'm not at all sure what the whole passage about seeing a film for the second time has to do with the argument. If God is the film director, he determines the performances, and the outcome.... and no matter how many times we watch the film... the actors have no control over the events. This is a riddle!

With regards to me having a problem with Omniscience.... yes of course I do, as I believe it to be a nonsense. I have tried already to indicate why I hold this opinion, but you obviously fail to understand me. Let me try to put it more clearly.

If the course of every human life is already predestined, mapped out even before he is conceived, then what need is there of Salvation? Predestination denies mankind the right to exercise free will. It negates the necessity of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, the ressurrection. It negates the need for the disciples of Christ to spread the word, for no matter how well they spread it, they will not have the power to save those who have already be predestined to an eternity of damnation! There is no logic whatsoever in the notion of predestination!

I confess I find it amusing that someone who subscribes to the notion that our lives are beyond our own control can use the phrase "or is that a might too much like fair play?"

Thank you for taking the time to respond, John. The important thing is that we both have a right to express our opinions and to hold our own individual beliefs.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Hi Thatguypk,

Here in Asia I actually meet people with real names like your profile name!

Thanks for replying, it's work time for me for the next few hours, but I will reply more fully, so for now I will simply say....

YOU are the director of the movie, God is the editor.

Now I have done both those jobs for real, and I can tell you that the editors job is to make what the director wants to see in the final cut.

Actors in the movie can influence their performances, but a good director will keep shooting until he gets what HE wants in the can, and a good editor can change whatever is shot to achieve what the director wants.

But YOU are the director, albeit God appointed you to the role, but you interpret the story you lay down and how it plays out in the final reel.


Thatguypk profile image

Thatguypk 5 years ago Author

Hope you're enjoying your work there, John.

I might not agree with your opinions on predestination, or God for that matter, but I can't argue with your knowledge of movies!


The Dirt Farmer profile image

The Dirt Farmer 5 years ago from United States

Have you read Good Omens? "Ineffable."


SteveMacken profile image

SteveMacken 5 years ago from Galway, Ireland.

I find it interesting, aguasilver, that you have completely ignored the substantive issue, sidestepped the argument and still end up believing you have won the debate. I find it interesting, but not surprising... I have yet to meet a theist who understands logic.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Hi Steve,

I make it a practice to try and NOT turn someones comments box into a forum debate, so my address was to Thatguypk and as I stated, if I can get the chance, I will do a hub back trying to clarify the understanding for you secularists.

I could also just say that 'I have yet to meet a secularist who understands God or the Word.' and we would be at the same impasse of communication.

If one is a secularist, then understanding how God functions is impossible because you have never met with Him.

If one meets with God, then slowly they will understand why the ways of God are not mans, and why man is blind to what God actually does UNTIL they have stopped their rebellion against Him.

But let me do that hub...

John


SteveMacken profile image

SteveMacken 5 years ago from Galway, Ireland.

As for turning ThatGuyPK's comment thread into a forum, you did express above, a desire to see how the commentary would progress, and I guess that would include comments about the commentary along with comments about the original hub... anyway, the OP is well able to defend his own comment thread should he so desire, and I'm sure he will should the need arise.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Hi Steve, what I actually said was: I don't really want to try to answer this in a comments box, let's see what your readers commentary runs to, and maybe I will hub you back.

The emphasis being on 'I will hub you back' IF I feel that the comments warrant a serious reply, so far we have a light banter going on, and no serious or challenging comments to deal with, set against a major workload at this time (for me)and little time in my day to answer this, so unless things change, I am content that matters rest where they are.

Like Thatguypk states: "The important thing is that we both have a right to express our opinions and to hold our own individual beliefs." and that is a stance I support 100%, and always have, as a secularist and as a believer.

I seek to try and help folk understand what I have come to understand, and look to see whether they have a better take on something than I do.

There are no contests in life, except where we need to prove our superiority, and that normally follows from insecurity.

John


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

I agree completely that predestination totally nullifies free will. So, either we were created as free and rational beings (if you believe we were created, that is) or we are just as you said, Thatguypk, nothing but characters in a book acting out a scripted scene. Predestination removes responsibility for any and everything. Free will puts too much onus on a Christian to accept responsibilities for their words and actions which may be contrary to what they say they believe. As a believer, I disagree vehemently with the concept of predestination. I believe that I have been created with a will completely free to choose my words, my actions, and my thoughts. I also find this particular argument silly. Especially since there is no choice made by the individual...like you said, it's one or the other. Can't be both.

aguasilver, I have to disagree with your whole director/editor analogy. Predestination would make GOD the director - not you. You would be the editor who was trying to create something different from the original vision of God (predestination). That's just my thought on the matter.


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

A quick edit to my comment above - "I also find this particular argument silly. Especially since there is no choice made by the individual [who proposed the initial argument]".


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Like I said, omniscience is a much misunderstood subject (and I don't profess to fully understand it) but IF you can get your head around time travel, i.e. being free to roam anywhere in time or history, yet never actually interfering in history, then omniscience starts to make sense.

This needs a hub, but I'm too busy today.

John

Afterthought....

Have you ever had a circular loop argument in a spreadsheet.... even that has some bearing on this, for you CAN resolve them if you know how!


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 5 years ago from Roseville, CA

I have written a hub refuting Calvinism's double-predestination view called "Don't Limit His Love". I believe God's opportunity for salvation is given to every living soul. He has a predestined path for them to follow, yet gives them the choice to walk that path or not. Therefore, there is no excuse for anyone when that Day of Judgment comes (John 15:22). Each had the opportunity for salvation and the inheritance equally. "No excuse" means no excuse. One cannot stand before God and say, "You made me this way; You ordered my steps off the path; I had no choice in the matter", etc. God may know the end from the beginning, but oftentimes in the Bible we see things take a turn and God 'repent' Himself (change His mind - i.e. Jonah 3:10). Likewise, when we choose to go against God's plan for us, we are on the road to destruction. When we repent (change our mind) and get back on the road to life, God forgives, heals and restores us by His precious blood.

Rom 6:16 states, "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?"

The Lord says in Ez 33:11, "'As I live!' declares the Lord GOD, 'I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways!"

2 Pet 3:9 states it is not God's will (desire/wish) that ANY should perish, but for ALL to come to repentance. For this reason, He is long-suffering. The gospel must be preached to all people (no excuses) before He returns (Mat 24:14). Amen.

I love John to pieces, and I'm not sure he actually is a proponent of Calvinism's double-predestination error (as kind of a word as I can come up with). I would like him to publish a hub on this topic, so we can more clearly understand where he's coming from.


Thatguypk profile image

Thatguypk 5 years ago Author

I would be more impressed by John had he not published a hub that labels all atheists as satan-inspired/possessed liars.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Well that is just my opinion of course, which you admit I am entitled to, and which was formed by observation of secularists who consistently ask "Did God REALLY say that" in a manner designed to lead folk astray.

Let's face it, a secularist will never agree with a believers understanding of how the spiritual plane works, and of course, from your perspective; not recognizing any God to obey or fear, my hub was pure conjecture with no relationship to yourself, so wheres the harm?

If what I state is not applicable to you (and if God and Satan do not exist, then it would not be) why would you be liable to be less impressed by what I state?

Speaking personally I find secularists mocking God and showing their deep ignorance of how He works equally offensive, but we live in a live and let live world, where it is OK to believe anything except the bible, which (if one does believe the bible) will cause folk to feel free to make fun of one, and call believers all sort of derogatory names, not you of course, you just named your hub:

The most ridiculous religious argument ...EVER!

And then pronounced on something which you simply cannot understand, so you call it ridiculous....

I guess 'if the cap fits wear it' is a phrase you are familiar with, and equally if the cap does not fit, why complain, for the cap would obviously not be applicable to you.

Did you read my hub, I thank you.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Just re read that hub myself, perhaps the most telling line is:

"The really subtle part about Satan's deception is that you just cannot see it."

NO wonder secularists dislike that hub!

John


Thatguypk profile image

Thatguypk 5 years ago Author

With respect, John, my hub entitled "The most ridiculous religious argument...EVER!" attacks a concept. It does not attack any individual. It questions, quite rightly, if predestination and free will can co-habit.

There is a wealth of difference between attacking a concept and attacking (verbally) other contributors to any religious debate.

You are indeed entitled to your belief, but that entitlement over-steps the mark, in my humble opinion, when it amounts to verbal abuse. Calling me, and all other atheists, liars, would fall into MY category of verbal abuse.

If I truly believed that all Christians were educationally sub-normal and therefore a danger to society and ought to be sectioned, I would have more manners than to announce such a belief publicly, for fear of being disrespectful. Of course, I don't believe that, as is evidenced by my appreciation of many Christian views and values.

Finally, I don't dislike your hub(s). I merely dislike your unchristian intolerance. Still, we all have our flaws!

Good health.


jreuter profile image

jreuter 5 years ago from Portland, Oregon

Well thatguyPK, you're certainly not a Calvinist. ;)


Thatguypk profile image

Thatguypk 5 years ago Author

Well spotted, jreuter! :-)


Motown2Chitown 5 years ago

I think what leads us often down this road of intolerance is the assumption that simply questioning a person's belief is considered an attack on the person himself. Whether you believe in God or don't, questioning is often necessary to gain understanding. If you believe in God, and I happen to, you believe that you have been created with a brain that will occasionally question in a rational and logical attempt to understand. It's about choosing to believe that everything happens because God WILLS it or because He ALLOWS it. I happen to believe both. We will suffer consequences for wrong actions because that's how things work...but our wrong action is not because God wills it. He may allow it for reasons beyond our understanding, but that doesn't mean it is predestined and inescapable. Just my thoughts on the matter.


PlanksandNails profile image

PlanksandNails 5 years ago from among the called out of the ekklesia of Christ

I believe God does everything apart from our own free will to prove Himself to us.

The isms of man seem to sway too far one way or the other, rather than keeping on the straight and narrow. As a follower of Jesus Christ, it is about a relationship with Him, not with a fallible man made doctrine.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

I thank Allan McGregor for his hub:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Prophecy-f

Which covers the subject very well and negates my need to write on it!

John


Thatguypk profile image

Thatguypk 5 years ago Author

Mr McGregor seems to enjoy his writing!

Good health.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

He does indeed, as much as I enjoy reading him, he has a certain touch for exposition....

John


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington

From the varying comments this hub has received, it is obvious that there is a faction of Christianity which believes something quite the opposite of predestination. The bummer is that we don't get the fulness of knowledge on the subject until we die, or are visited by God or angels and the like.

Perhaps a little experimentation on the ideology is worth a shot. My advice is to pray about it. If you get nothing, then so be it. If you do get somthing out of it then further inquery would be worth persuing.

Good day.


suejanet profile image

suejanet 5 years ago

I like reading stories about religion, but they are stories.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

suejanet, to you they are..... to you..... remember in this super tolerant world of subjectivity, you are not allowed to make an exclusive objective statement, all must be cloaked in ambiguity.

That's why John 3 16:19 is so disliked, it's definitive.


SteveMacken profile image

SteveMacken 5 years ago from Galway, Ireland.

Eh, aguasilver, who's commenting on comments now? Just a tad hypocritical don't you think?


SteveMacken profile image

SteveMacken 5 years ago from Galway, Ireland.

Oh, and there's nothing definitive about John 3 16:19. It's a passage from a book that suejanet and many others, atheists and non-Christians, believe to be a story. Just because a story says those who don't believe the story are evil and doomed doesn't give the story any more truth. It's your truth, aguasilver, not an absolute truth.

And one more thing, I don't hate John 3 16:19 anymore than I hate Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix 11 23:27.


Thatguypk profile image

Thatguypk 5 years ago Author

Based on your own arguments, aguasilver, John 3. 16-19 is not definitive, but extremely ambiguous!

The notion of Jesus coming to earth to offer salvation immediately contradicts the notion of predestination. He can only save those who have already been predestined to become believers, and he will be of no consequence to those who have already been selected for damnation.

Furthermore, isn't it ironic that in an effort to convince mankind of free-will, God sent to earth a child who had no free-will? It's a bit of a bluff to say that 'the word became flesh', when, in fact, the very essence of Jesus' existence was that he should live to be sacrificed on the cross. His path WAS pre-destined.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

His Path was one He chose, if you remember, when Christ was in the Garden, He said:

Matthew 26:39 (King James Version)

.....he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Christ CHOSE to offer Himself as a sacrifice for WHOSOEVER would believe in Him.

You CHOOSE not to do that, YOUR CHOICE.

Stop trying to blame God for your choices, yes God CHOSE to love you unconditionally, CHOSE to send His Son to die in your place that YOU may live with God for eternity, YES that was His predestined CHOICE for YOU, but God also CHOSE to GIVE YOU free will to decide for yourself, and if YOU have CHOSEN to reject what God offers, then you have ELECTED to live for eternity without God, in a place where all the other folk who by CHOICE or by their ACTIONS have rendered themselves incapable of living with God, will also be, so you will share it with intellectual liberal philosophers and scientists, as well as despots and tyrants, psychopaths and serial killers, rapists, murderers.... just imagine the worse cell block in the worst jail and you may get to understand why I CHOSE NOT to reside there for eternity, you see the real problem is that after a lifetime of rejecting God, once you pass from temporal to eternal, you will be stuck with that decision, for God honors His WORD and where you have decided to NOT be with Him, in His love for you, with much regret, He will prepare a place where you WILL spend eternity without any further interference from God.

Imagine your JOY, you can do whatever YOU choose for eternity, but so can all the others... and God will NEVER look into that place again, so it's just TOO LATE at that point to get back out again, 'cos NOBODY will hear you scream, except the other folk who chose or were disqualified from being with God.

Have fun.

Oh, and SteveMacken..."Just because a story says those who don't believe the story are evil and doomed doesn't give the story any more truth. It's your truth, aguasilver, not an absolute truth."

Well Steve, we are both staking our eternal lives on THAT statement.

Guess I will never know if you are right, whereas you will have eternity to ponder on it if you are wrong.

Just commenting because I can't just allow folk to malign Christ and say nothing, it's a fault of mine and I admit it.

Thank you Thatguypk for allowing the commentary, but I see it's good for the score and I suspect readers, which is the same reason the local radio station used to give me airtime, the infuriated secularists phoning in made for good radio, and amused the other listeners, audience rose, ads were happy, only the secularists were upset.


SteveMacken profile image

SteveMacken 5 years ago from Galway, Ireland.

@aguasilver, "so you will share it with intellectual liberal philosophers and scientists," oh boy, I guessed this would surface eventually...

So, you have taken on the mantle of judge, jury and executioner of god's divine plan, I see. So, you know the mind of god then, do you? Wow, how blessed are you? I was lead to believe that the mind of god was unknowable by man and also that redemption/condemnation was god's domain, not man's. Isn't there something in the bible about not judging lest you be judged yourself...

Anyway, it looks like god has your number on speeddial so I better let you get back to the hard work of winnowing the chaff that is to be burned... by your reckoning, you've a big job ordained for you... there's an awful lot of intellectual liberal philosophers and scientists out there for you to judge and condemn... because by your analysis, just being one is enough to get you fried...


Thatguypk profile image

Thatguypk 5 years ago Author

"Stop trying to blame God for your choices, yes God CHOSE to love you unconditionally, CHOSE to send His Son to die in your place that YOU may live with God for eternity, YES that was His predestined CHOICE for YOU, but God also CHOSE to GIVE YOU free will to decide for yourself...."

Oops! There we go again, aguasilver.... the old dilemma... maybe I find it difficult to take you seriously because you don't seem to ba able to resolve the dilemma yourself.

As for me blaming God for my choices???? That's ridiculous! I don't blame God... I don't BELIEVE in God, so why the heck would I blame someone I don't believe in.... more illogical nonsense.

I take full responsibility for my beliefs, aguasilver.

As for keeping the commentary open, I would never deny anyone the opportunity to express their views, and if it brings me a higher readership, so be it, but that is not my intention, merely a circumstance.

Truthfully, I'd be alot happier if people read my other hubs. Religious hubs tend to be repetitive and never ending. The drawback, I suppose of debating an issue that can never, due to lack of evidence, reach a satisfactory conclusion.


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 5 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Steve, I just quoted scripture, John 3:16:18 to be precise, which is Gods judgement, not mine, and yes I am blessed to know God, but then so is every other believer.

Thatguypk, by your own admission: "I take full responsibility for my beliefs..."

So be it.

Sound effect:

Sounds of John dusting his sandals, as he moves onward.


Thatguypk profile image

Thatguypk 5 years ago Author

Don't you take full responsibility for YOUR beliefs, aguasilver? Again I submit that to suggest that you are a believer because God ordained that you should be, even before you were born, also suggests that you did not have the free will to make the choice that Jesus himself offered.

"Whosoever believeth in me shall have everlasting life".

With your nice clean sandals, I trust you will enjoy your onward journey. Thank you for the conversation.


Spirit Whisperer profile image

Spirit Whisperer 5 years ago from Isle of Man

A belief is in effect an idea accepted as truth and this can clearly be evidenced in the comments under this hub. We are all entitled to our beliefs most of which have been given to us but when people argue about what they believe to be true aren't they missing the point? A belief is a belief and as such cannot be be absolute truth. The acid test for an absolute truth is that it is independent of the perceiver. The beliefs expressed in this hub and in the comments do not pass the acid test for absolute truth so why get so worked up about it?

Having said this I still really enjoyed reading this hub and the reaction it received.


Terry.Hirneisen profile image

Terry.Hirneisen 5 years ago from Shenandoah Valley

God!!! I cannot believe all the effort people put in to the religious fantasy. Of course our lives are not predestined. I may have to get a picture of MS. Jones and pleasure myself to get all this nonsense out of my head! I am a hopeful agnostic. This means I still hope for some sort of afterlife, mostly because of my friends I miss, but seriously doubt there is such a thing. And if there is, I want to be with my dogs and Mark Twain and not some sinner pope! I am absolutely certain you will love this one:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Pray-For-M


gg.zaino profile image

gg.zaino 5 years ago from L'America

Good morning Thatguypk-

As a student in college i was forced to take a philosophy course and i chose 'Philosophy of Religion" Before taking this course i followed the path of a Christian- after this class finished i had serious doubts. Now i have no doubts.

I feel that a 'God' is needed by a few indeed, but only to control the superstitious and blindfolded. I see no benevolence in the judeo-christian god.

I judge myself- and my behavior- as a response to a universal order all creatures great and small live by. an unwritten code that lies within all.

This subject has me fueled at times and i have written several articles on it myself.

I'll say this though; Buddha had a great message, as well as Jesus- and then they became Gods but not by their own hands.

Peace brother- glad to follow you.

greg


Thatguypk profile image

Thatguypk 5 years ago Author

Thanks for the comments, and the follow, greg.... I have already enjoyed several of your hubs this morning, and fully intend to read more. You are a fluent and very enjoyable read!

Best wishes.

PK


d.william profile image

d.william 5 years ago from Somewhere in the south

Excellent thought provoking hub. Some of the comments are quite ludicrous, in that, you cannot justify the validity of the bible by quoting from it, and that the brainwashing of young minds is sometimes so vastly overwhelming for them that they cannot grasp any type of reality about why we are really here.

There is no living person who actually has those answers. At best we can only speculate. And i for one, prefer to speculate based on logic and reality, not fairytale writings from 2000 years ago.

All in all, a good hub, with good results in invoking fervor.

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