Universal Salvation: Response to galatians22067-2

Galatians, this hub-length comment after hub-length comment is getting a bit ridiculous.  One thing about you Universalists is you can’t keep your comments a reasonable length.  Nor can I respond to you in reasonable length.  For this reason, I am posting yet another hub. 

Galatians22067 said (and I quote):

I am not going to try and and post a teaching on the second death lake of fire judgement on a hub page. I am still going to take this one point at a time because these multi tasking discussions get convoluted. My purpose is to prove that the lake of fire judgement is not eternal not that it does not exist. It is very real and a very serious thing but the idea that it is eternal and has no purpose but to torture people is just far from the truth. Im glad you see that there is no verse in the bible that says the penalty for our sins is to go to hell and thats its death. Remember this when learning about the second death. Lets go on to the next point in your letter , I am going to skip over 1Tim2:4 because the 2nd part of your response is more fitting for our discussion.

“Regarding Rom 1:25, is it not YOU who worships the creation rather than the Creator? You expect all men to be saved because YOU can’t stand the thought of anyone burning in Hell. You love the created human more than God, no matter what they believe.”

The fact that I discuss and do not agree with these belief should tell you that this is not true. I do not believe people can just believe what ever they want and do what ever they want and than just "go to heaven." This is a horrible false witness. God is going to judge the world and every idle word men have spoken. I mean look at my email address Gal 2:20 and 6:7 ! These are a few of my favorite verses thats why my email address is what it is because there a focal point of my beliefs . Does this sound like talk from a person who promotes live like you want and not be accountable ? You are right I can not stand the thought of anyone ever going to hell forever. I used to believe it was true until I began to really learn and now I am amazed how blind I was. However I have absolutely no problem with God judging the wickedness of men !

Can you imagine getting to heaven and all those prayers you have ever said for those you love to come to Christ and for Christ to heal them if they are all burning in hell forever ? I mean what kind of a blessing is that ? Where are my friends and family God ? Well they over here burning in fire isnt it great ? Isnt it great to be in the kingdom of God ? I mean come on have you ever really thought about this ! Come on God we have learned all these principles of righteousness our whole lives. Love our enemy, do good to those who hate you. They made fun of me for not getting drunk and fornicating and laughing at me for having faith and just like you I forgive them because they do not know what they are doing. I tried by best to live by your commands dont you practice what you taught us to be like ? Can we teach them now God ? You know like when Joseph taught his evil brothers that lesson in Genesis remember ? Can we use that principle now ? I mean God dont we both desire everyone to be saved ? Well Matt I am afraid not its to late ! I wanted to save them but I cant anymore ! You know what we can do we can raise them from the dead and burn their flesh for all eternity ? How does that sound ?

I was being sacrcastic God is going to do these things for us . HE LOVES US ! I pray I am in that blessed and holy first resurrection and help him accomplish subduing everything back to Christ where it belongs ! It does not matter if you do not believe its going to happen . Jesus Christ will win . He will abolish all death not some death all death even the second death !

Jas 2:13

For God will not show mercy when he judges the person who has not been merciful; but mercy triumphs over judgment.

Jas 2:14

My friends, what good is it for one of you to say that you have faith if your actions do not prove it? Can that faith save you?

Jas 2:15

Suppose there are brothers or sisters who need clothes and don't have enough to eat.

Jas 2:16

What good is there in your saying to them, "God bless you! Keep warm and eat well!"---if you don't give them the necessities of life?

Jas 2:17

So it is with faith: if it is alone and includes no actions, then it is dead.

If someone is hungry and asks you for a sandwich you are not supposed to say God Bless You ! You are supposed to make him a sandwich. The judgement here is someone who is not proving their faith by their actions. If you have the needs to make someone a sandwich and ignore their necessitiy of life you have been unmerciful towards that persons necessity of life and God will not have mercy on that action. He is not going to be merciful towards that action he is going to judge that action but HIS MERCY TRIUMPHS OVER THAT JUDGEMENT. This says absolutely nothing about God never stoping from burning people with fire for all eternity.

Now be honest have you misunderstood this verse ?

MY ANSWER:

galatians22067 said, “My purpose is to prove that the lake of fire judgement is not eternal not that it does not exist. It is very real and a very serious thing but the idea that it is eternal and has no purpose but to torture people is just far from the truth. Im glad you see that there is no verse in the bible that says the penalty for our sins is to go to hell and thats its death.”

The Lake of Fire is not eternal? Can you prove that? I can prove that it is:

If you look up the actual Greek definitions of everlasting and eternal:

According to scripture, souls live eternally. They are either eternally in life or eternally condemned.

Daniel 12:2 (Old Testament) states, "Many of those who sleep [die] in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt."

Matthew 25:46 (New Testament) states, "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

The word "everlasting" is the Hebrew word "olam" meaning concealed, the vanishing point, time out of mind, eternity; always; continuance, eternal, everlasting.

The word "eternal" is the Greek word "aionios" perpetual:-eternal, forever, everlasting.

The hole in one regarding olam, aionios and even aion is if you look up everlasting (olam) God/King and eternal (aionios) God. You CANNOT claim that God is age-existant that implies an end or period of time!! That is heretical and blasphemous!! (Gen 21:13; Isa 40:28; Jer 10:10; Rom 16:26)

  • "This is My name for ever [olam]" Ex 3:15
  • "Yehovah is everlasting [olam] strength" Isa 26:4
  • "The Word of our God stands for ever [olam]" Isa 40:8
  • "Eternal [aionios] house in heaven" 2 Cor 5:1
  • "He became the source of eternal [aionios] salvation" Heb 5:9
  • "Christ, Who through the eternal [aionios] Spirit" Heb 9:14
  • "the blood of the everlasting [aionion] covenant" Heb 13:20
  • "God...has called us into His eternal [aionion] glory" 1 Pet 5:10
  • "into the everlasting [aionios] kingdom of our Lord" 2 Pet 1:11
  • "Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever [aion] and ever [aion]" Mat 6:13
  • "The Father is blessed for evermore [aion]" 2 Cor 11:31
  • "According to His eternal [aion] purpose" Eph 3:11
  • "Now to the King eternal [aion]... be honor and glory for ever [aion] and ever [aion]" 1 Tim 1:17
  • "Your throne, O God, is for ever [aion] and ever [aion]" Heb 1:8

Both heaven and hell is everlasting, eternal, without end. Our souls will dwell in one place or the other after physical death and bodily resurrection.

What does “will awake” mean? The resurrection. Those in the first resurrection have died in Christ and will not see the second death.

Rev 14:10b and 11a tell us, “and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night”. Regarding "for ever and ever" the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary states as follows:

Greek: "unto ages of ages." No rest day nor night - contrast the very different sense in which the same is said of the four living creatures in heaven, "They rest not day and night, saying, 'Holy, holy, holy'"; yet they do "rest" in another sense; they rest from sin and sorrow, weariness and weakness, trial and temptation (Rev 14:13); the lost have no rest from sin and Satan, terror, torment, and remorse.

First of all, the torment happens in the Lake of Fire in presence of the holy angels and the Lamb; not the saints. What does “torment” mean? Here is the definition for you to see: http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/929.htm The definition includes TORTURE.

When it comes to the final sentence to Geenna, the Lake of Fire, there is no coming out. Look at Revelation 22 about the New Heaven and New Earth. This is the final dwelling for the saints. Verse 15 states, “Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.” Where was the Valley of Hinnom located in the times before and during Jesus’ life on earth? Outside Jerusalem. It is apparent the final Geenna will also be outside the Holy City. I don’t know if you’ve read my hub Where or What is HELL?, but fire and brimstone indicate Geenna is on earth (in the earth), for brimstone is inflammable sulpher and does not exist in space. It is incorruptible, just as the resurrected bodies of those who enter Geenna will be (1 Cor 15:52).

I never said the penalty for sin is not to go to Hell. Look at the following two verses:

Rom 6:23 "The wages of sin is death". The word "wages" means provisions, wages. Eternal death is paid to the sinner!! The sinner is not making the payment to God. That's the way Satan twists the truth! Everyone dies and that is not atonement or payment to God for our sin!!

2 Thes 1:9 "These will pay the penalty of eternal [aionios] destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power". The word "penalty" means justice (the principle, a decision, or its execution) -- judgment, punish, vengeance. Destruction is from a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form).

The sentence for those who do not receive Jesus as Lord and Savior (before their appointed time to die physically) do NOT have a second chance! The judgment follows (krisis) and sentencing to Geenna is the second and final “death”, which is eternal, everlasting, forever and ever. You cannot convince me it is for an “age” or temporary time period. You also cannot prove scripturally that anyone is saved after entering the Lake of Fire. It is FINAL, as much as eternal life is final!

Regarding mercy or no mercy shown by God, it is true that there are many who profess to be saved by “faith” or even call themselves “Christians”, but they LIE in that we shall know them by their fruits! The fruit of faith is evident through actions. Mat 25:33-41 makes this clear.

James 2:13 states, "For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment." Regarding the latter part of this verse, mercy, so far from fearing judgment in the case of its followers, actually glorifieth against it, knowing that it cannot condemn them. Not that their mercy is the ground of their acquittal, but the mercy of God in Christ towards them, producing mercy on their part towards their fellow men, makes them to triumph over judgment, which all in themselves otherwise deserve. This is speaking to believers, those saved in Christ.

Regarding John 3:16 ~ God so “loved the world” and “loving our enemies” (Mat 5:44), you need to understand the difference between that kind of love (agapao) and saved love (agape). It is not the same. You are welcome to read up on this study in my hub Hated on Account of My Name.

We should be busy about spreading the gospel of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ NOW. I’ve already shared with you that He will draw ALL men to Himself when He is lifted up from the earth (that would be the resurrection of Christ Jesus, which already happened). That drawing comes by hearing the Word of God, at which point each man must choose to receive or reject Him. They will NOT have a second chance after death. They will NOT be purified unto salvation through the Lake of Fire. THAT IS A LIE from the PIT OF HELL. You will not be in the first resurrection as long as you preach doctrines of demons.

You USED to believe the way I do and “The Way of the Master”, but TURNED AWAY from the truth! Hebrews 6:4-6 tell you that it is IMPOSSIBLE to renew you AGAIN unto repentance, for you are crucifying to YOURSELF the Son of God and putting Him to OPEN SHAME. Be warned!! I am solemnly testifying to you as Paul did to the Jews.

To read my first responsive hub to galatians22067, see Universal Salvation: Response to galatians22067.

To continue on with my third response to galatians22067, see Universal Salvation: Response to gatlatians22067-3.

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38 comments

no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York

You could not be clearer sister. You sounded the clarion call to him and to all who feel as he does that God can be mocked and that it doesn't matter what manner of life one leads all will be saved. Jesus loves all and was willing to die for all of them but He doesn't force all to accept Him and never will. He however comes to them in terms they understand and they know in their heart of hearts that they are rejecting the King of Kings. That I believe is going to be one of the worst pains of hell. The memory never fading always knowing that they knew the way to life and rejected it, time after time until God's mercy had to come to an end and His Judgment came. I love you sis. May this reach many people. Into this man's heart whether or not he accepts it and into many many others, to the glory of our Father in heaven. Love you.


djbraman profile image

djbraman 6 years ago

I'm not sure what you are trying to convey, but sometimes people can read things into our writing that is misconstrued. I would need to read more to understand your position but Luke 16:26 and Rev. 14 is very clear that hell is for eternity and it is torment without relief. What is interesting is in Luke 16:31, "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead. I think we should be looking closer at what hell means because most churches don't want to hear that, but it is a reality and if we don't talk about many will perish in the lake of fire. I feel like that you have tremendous compassion for people to be saved and I wish more Christians had your conviction concerning others. It is a love that Jesus had for all.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Brother Bob, I'm glad you find this a clear explanation. Yes, God will NOT be mocked, amen, and we are NOT entitled to eternal life simply because Christ Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world. That in itself shows God's faithfulness (the parachute), but only those who believe, put on Christ and walk in the Spirit are saved. We all have the proof in that Christ was raised from the dead. We have His Word available to us. We have Moses and the Prophets, the apostles and preachers, teachers, evangelists, missionaries, the airwaves ~ especially believers who witness everywhere we go! There will be NO excuse!! There most definitely is a HELL and it is a SENTENCE, not propitiation for sin, and is ETERNAL. This is the truth, and we are called and obligated to testify to the truth. Amen. God bless you, brother as we stand united in our Lord.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Sister djbraman, Thank you and God bless you for reading and commenting. You might be wondering why I addressed the word eternal and everlasting, as well as for ever and ever. Universalists argue the meaning of the words to try to prove the Lake of Fire is not forever. I pray the definitions show that Hell is not temporary or for a period of time, whereby those in it can get out into eternal life.

They don't call the Lake of Fire "Hell", but believe it to be a purification process in which all cast into it will eventually come out when their wickedness is purged away (including Satan and his angels). They disregard Lazarus and the rich man as merely a "parable" that isn't truth. They don't believe we have soul consciousness at all when we die either. The way it's been explained to me by them is this was to picture Lazarus as Eleazar (a Gentile) receiving salvation, merely to make the rich man (representative of the Jews) jealous. That's all!!

As I've ministered to them, Jesus named names in that account of Lazarus and the rich man. He mentioned Lazarus; He mentioned Abraham, Moses and the Prophets. He said the rich man was in Hades (really, He said Sheol, as Jesus didn't speak Greek) and his eyes were lifted up in torment. Abraham didn't tell the rich man he would one day be let out of Sheol/Hades. It was IMPOSSIBLE.

Jesus said we will never ever die in John 11:26. That means our souls do not cease to live! Ever! AMEN! Paul also said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord! If our souls stayed with our bodies until resurrection, we would NEVER be absent from them, AMEN!

I have three studies on my Judah's Daughter profile here on HubPages: http://hubpages.com/profile/Judah%27s+Daughter... that go into Hell and the meanings, scriptures, etc. The names of the hubs are:

1. HELL: Sheowl, Hades, Tartaroo, Geenna

2. How to do an Inductive Bible Study

3. Where or What is HELL?

Thank you for seeing my heart. As soon as I started writing for the Lord on HubPages, I was swarmed by Universalists contradicting the gospel. The Lord burdened my heart for them. I transferred all my hubs that minister to the saints to my Judah's Daughter profile and wondered if this profile would die out ~~ far from it!!

Praise God in all things. I do pray I bear His fruit through this ministry and that even one soul will be spared from the road to destruction, in Jesus' holy Name and by His shed blood, His grace and love ~ AMEN.


Artin2010 profile image

Artin2010 6 years ago from Northwestern Florida, Gulfcoast

It is amazing how much you know about New Testament writings of Scripture. If you were polling this, I'd have to vote that the Lake of Fire,Hell is a very real place and is forever. Anyone whose name is not in the Lambs Book the Holy record of all mankind who claim Jesus Christ to be The Lord and Savior of All, and is not repenting to God never ceasing of the sin that is keeping us from God, are headed to this special and real place spoken of in the Word.

Thank you for explaining Paul's doctrine/preaching to the church in Galatia. The message of hell is backed up verse by verse all through the New Testament writings right into Revelations. Blessings, have a wonderful day and peace be with you! Brother in Christs heart of hearts!


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Hi brother Artin2010! Where the Universalists get caught up is that they do believe Jesus Christ to be the Lord and Savior of ALL (regardless of repentance prior to physical death). They believe the L of F is a purification process, which is ABSOLUTELY UNSCRIPTURAL. I'm thankful you stand in the truth and preach the truth, as we are called to do! Blessings and peace to you, too, my brother in Christ!


galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

It is very hard to have a discussion with you . You bring up to many things at one time its very difficult to sort through it all thats why I wanted to talk about one thing at a time . Lets just talk about the word olam aion aionios and see how honest you are. Is this agreed ? I would be glad to discuss other things but you go all over the place and it would take for ever to go through it all so lets agree we will just talk about "eternity."

Here is my first question . Do I need to be circumcised to be saved ?

Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

galatians22067

Romans 2:29 "But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God."

As you know, the Jews felt that righteousness came through the Law, which included outward circumcision. Gal 2:21 states, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." This explains Rom 2:29 above.

Now, what does this have to do with olam, aion and aionios?


galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

I hope you do not mind my words but this is a serious quesion! Do I need to cut the foreskin off of my penis to be saved ? Yes or No ?


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

galatians22067, the answer is NO. Can you not get the answer by the scriptures? Circumcision was required under the Old Covenant. We are under the New Covenant. People do get circumcised for health and cleanliness, but circumcision does not clean one's heart before God. Only faith in Christ Jesus will do that.


galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

If a Jewish man who never accepts Christ who practices the law and circumcises his penis for righteousness and never learns that righteousness does not come through the law will he go to hell forever ?


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Galatians 5:3 "And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law."

James 2:10 "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."

The Jews couldn't keep the Law and if they refuse salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, he is counted as an unbeliever and will go to Hell; yes.


galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

So the Jewish man has to end the outward circumcision practice and learn that we are now saved by grace through faith ?


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Everything depends on his motive (heart). Christians get circumcised for health reasons, not as a requirement for salvation. A Jew is not to believe he is righteous because he's cirucumcised, nor should anyone feel unacceptable by God because he is not physically circumcised.

Mat 5:20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."

2 Cor 5:21 "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we MIGHT [through faith] become the righteousness of God in Him."


galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

So it is acceptable by God that the Jewish man does not get physically circumcised if his motives are correct ?


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

His motives being what? He would not be an orthodox Jew, but must become a Messianic Jew ~ one who accepts the righteousness of Christ through faith. If he remains a Jew under the Old Covenant, he has no covering for his sin. Circumcision is mute, either way.


galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

I understand that but I am just asking does he need to cut the foreskin off of penis ? Its really a yes or no question.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

I already answered that ~ the answer is NO.


galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

So the eternal covenant ended ? The bible says in Genesis 17 : 9-14 that this is an EVERLASTING COVENANT to cut the flesh of your penis and if you do not your soul will be cut off because you have broken Gods covenant.

You just told me I do not have to do this anymore ! Sounds to me like you just admitted olam does not mean eternal !


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

The Old Covenant (outward righteousness) became obsolete when the "Seed" came, which is Jesus Christ (inward righteousness). Are we still to be circumcised today? Yes, but it is of the heart. Do we still have God's Law today? Yes, but it is in the heart. What was physical became spiritual. It is still an ongoing covenant with God.


galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

Yes thats very true but this says the covenant is in your FLESH for an EVERLASTING COVENANT . Is the covenant still is our flesh ?


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

A "sign of the Covenant" is not "THE COVENANT" (Gen 17:11), just as was keeping the Sabbath (Ex 31:13). His Covenant is eternal ~ the Old (outward because we were not holy) replaced with the New (inward because we are made holy through faith), nonetheless His Covenant.

Here's a link that offers some more insight to the Covenant versus the "token of the Covenant" (that being circumcision) for better understanding: http://www.everlastingcovenant.com/article.php?id=...


galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

The two covenants are two different covenants ! The one in Geneis 17 required a man to have his penis circumcised or else he was cut off from his people! This covenant was a covenant in Abrahams flesh for an everlasting covenant. Not circumcision of the heart.


galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

I understand your points but when you read Lev 16:33,34 God is not talking about the sacrifice of Christ. He is talking about the sacrificing of animals for the sins of Israel and calls it an everlasting statute. The sacrificing of animals is not an everlasting statute and that is what it is called ! If you are going to say well this means Christ would be ridiculous . Christ does not get offered once a year ! Its an age abiding statute not everlasting !


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Just as outward circumcision and the sacrificing of a lamb annually were "signs" of THE COVENANT between man and God, the ONE-TIME and LAST sacrifice of the Lamb of God fulfilled the Old Covenant requirement, entering us into the New Covenant requirement, which is circumcision of the heart, faith in Christ Jesus, our Savior and LORD, our God! His Covenant never ends.

Galatians 3:29 tells us of His Covenant, His promise: "And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise."

AMEN.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

galatians, we've been over everything you are reposting in your lengthy comment. Christ fulfilled the requirements of the Old Covenant and brought us into the requirements of the New. He paid the price required by God as atonement for the sins of the world, but He Himself was sinless and was God. He doesn't pay the sentence of condemnation for those who reject Him.

Regarding Romans 5:15, "But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the MANY." Does it say to ALL? Case closed.

You have a hard heart, and I am not called to continue to contend with you. If you have a genuine question, I'll be here, but if you're going to repeat yourself and insult me, you insult my Father! I am His child! You're obviously struggling and repeating yourself. Why did God harden Pharaoh's heart? Because he was wicked to the core (Ez 31:18). God says in His word that He will give the wicked over to a reprobate mind (Rom 1:28) and send them a powerful delusion so they will believe a lie unto condemnation (2 Thes 2:10-12). You're already guilty of Heb 6:4-6. What else have I to do with you? I shake the dust now, and I am sad for you. This breaks my heart. I pray the Lord will have mercy upon you.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

galatians, I won't be accused, bullied or harrassed by you! This hub is for the benefit of all who read. You are stuck in your twisted thinking and I'm not your babysitter. I didn't 'LOSE' because you say so ~~ you have a problem and I can't help you. You think the disciples of Christ didn't go through similar persecution? Even worse? I give you to God's authority. No further comments will be approved. Find your next Christian to harrass, if that's your "soul" purpose. God is not mocked. This hub will help many, if it couldn't help you.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

I've just updated my hub with more about olam, aionios and aion as follows, galatians22067:

The hole in one regarding olam, aionios and even aion is if you look up everlasting (olam) God/King and eternal (aionios) God. You CANNOT claim that God is age-existant that implies an end or period of time!! That is heretical and blasphemous!! (Gen 21:13; Isa 40:28; Jer 10:10; Rom 16:26)

"This is My name for ever [olam]" Ex 3:15

"Yehovah is everlasting [olam] strength" Isa 26:4

"The Word of our God stands for ever [olam]" Isa 40:8

"Eternal [aionios] house in heaven" 2 Cor 5:1

"He became the source of eternal [aionios] salvation" Heb 5:9

"Christ, Who through the eternal [aionios] Spirit" Heb 9:14

"the blood of the everlasting [aionion] covenant" Heb 13:20

"God...has called us into His eternal [aionion] glory" 1 Pet 5:10

"into the everlasting [aionios] kingdom of our Lord" 2 Pet 1:11

"The Father is blessed for evermore [aion]" 2 Cor 11:31

"According to His eternal [aion] purpose" Eph 3:11

"Now to the King eternal [aion]... be honor and glory for ever and ever [aion]" 1 Tim 1:17


Cedar Cove Farm profile image

Cedar Cove Farm 6 years ago from Southern Missouri

Excellent apologetics, my friend. The scriptures speak loudly and to ignore them is foolishness. This proves the importance of keeping scriptures in context and letting the bible interperet itself. Great hub, although, you are probably casting pearls before swine.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

You are a breath of fresh air, Cedar Cove (sounds like someplace I'd love to be!). Yes and amen! Thank you for your encouragement and wisdom. God calls us for a reason and for a season. When it comes to taking verbal (written) abuse, that's where I call it "finished". I've had forums, hubs and comments from these "godly" (cough) people calling me a coward, a fool, dumb and an idiot. Now, if they really believed I am not responsible for being so "blind" and that God is going to "save" me, why would they be so hostile? That tells me they really don't believe what they preach!!

I can only hope the Seed is penetrating their veils and if so, then it will challenge them until they submit to the truth...or so I pray. I love them as God loves them, to cast the life-line, but if they don't grab on, it's their own choice. AMEN. Praise God for you!! I so appreciate you!!


oscarwms profile image

oscarwms 6 years ago from PA

Carrie, You are a women of patients to take the time to give the truth to this man and he still does not get it. Any way God's word will not return to Him void. It will accomplish that for which he sent it out to do (paraphrase, me) In his case it will convict him of sin and unrighteousness and judgment. God bless you.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

And the Lord sends His ministering spirits to refresh me ~ thank you so much, brother oscarwms! I thank you for the comforting words of truth, that our labor is not in vain. We must be obedient to His call and obedient to move on. And, indeed, it becomes a testimony against those who do not receive the Word of truth. We do have confidence in our Lord that He is both love and Judge, and righteously so! You are a blessing ~ I pray abundant blessings to you as well :-)


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

galatians22067, I won't post heretical links of your false teachers that have smooth lips and lying tongues. I will be fair and post part of your latest comment to address it, once and for all:

"How do you account for your problems for the numerous amounts of times the word olam does not mean eternal ? You dont ! You do not care you just want it to mean eternal because you are protecting your doctrine not coming to the Bible. You claim to me that the Bible never contradicts itself but when I show you certain scriptures you dont explain them to me you find other verses that sound like they contradict the ones that I showed you instead of offering an explanation to the ones we are addressing. So you need to either post my article and my respone to why it El Olam the God of the ages or erase our conversation unless your true motives are just to aggrandize yourself and make me look dumb when I have valid points. This is a lie and all liars will have their part in the lake of fire."

Put a mirror to your comment, "You do not care you just want it to mean 'eternal' [substitute 'temporary'] because you are protecting your doctrine not coming to the Bible." You don't want it to mean "eternal" because YOU are protecting YOUR doctrine not coming to the Bible!

I DO show you scriptures that prove your interpretation is contradictory to the Bible. What more do you need? The Bible does NOT contradict itself.

Am I making YOU look "dumb"? That's interesting, because it was YOU who called me "dumb" (in a comment I did not post). I guess he who digs a pit for another falls into it himself (Pr 26:27). I'm not exalting myself; I have humbly tolerated your hostilities. The people that confirm what is written here I do not attend church with and I don't know personally. We all serve the same God and interpret the same Bible. That should be confirmation of the TRUTH to you!

I can assure you, I am NOT lying. One of us is telling the truth; one is lying. There are only two masters: truth and lies. I think anyone reading can easily distinguish the two. If I were you, I'd tremble at your last, truthful statement: "all liars will have their part in the lake of fire".

And, just so you don't "run" with the term, "part", in the lake of fire, after one thousand years in the lake of fire the Beast and False Prophet are still there, undestroyed (Rev 20:10). The words "forever and forever" ("to the ages of the ages") are used in Heb 1:8 for the duration of the throne of God, eternal in the sense of unending. "Your throne, O God is for ever [aion] and ever [aion]..." AMEN.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

galatians22067, I have written yet a third hub to answer your demands ~~ http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Universal-...


None of your business 5 years ago

I've got a few questions for you "Carrie" I won't necessarily agree with your answer, but I am curious on your take of it. While Jesus was being tortured on the cross, why did he call out "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do"? He begged for God to forgive his tormentors/killers, the ones putting nails into him, a crown of thorns on him, spitting on him, etc.. Yet anyone who doesn't believe on the name of Jesus is supposedly sent to a place of eternal torment for being guilty of not knowing, or hearing Jesus' name even, and/or believing that he died for their sins. My question to you is, do you think that the ones who killed Jesus were forgiven even though they never asked to be forgiven? Also, in your opinion, do nonbelievers (they physically took no part in torturing Jesus, they don't believe) deserve to go to a place of torment that never ends? Does not Jesus want EVERYONE to be forgiven? Furthermore, do you think it's good that Jesus did die, so everyone could be saved?


None of your business 5 years ago

"Carrie" claims: The Bible does NOT contradict itself.

Do you even know the meaning of the word?! YES IT DOES! Either you've got to be the dumbest person around with no reading comprehension, or you haven't read the entire bible. Here's but a very few contradictions:

God does/doesn't repent:

Numbers 3:19

God is not a man that he should lie; neither the son of a man that he should repent.

Exodus 32:14

And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

God does/doesn't tempt

James 1:13

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

Genesis 22:1

God did tempt Abraham.

Punished for others' sins

Exodus 20:5 , Deuteronomy 5:9

I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

Deuteronomy 24:16

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

The chosen ones of God (the Jews) put Jesus on the cross. This sin could have been eternally held against them, with no hope for salvation. This was not a 'blanket' forgiveness for all their sin, but the sin of crucifying Him. To call the Son of God a blasphemer is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit within Him, which is the unforgivable sin (Luke 12:10; Mark 3:29).

Consider that the Jews who rejected Jesus and those who refuse Him now were/are the chosen ones, belonging to the "cultivated olive tree". Their branches were/are 'cut off' (spiritual death/God's judgment and wrath), while Gentile BELIEVERS (wild olive tree) were grafted in to the cultivated olive tree. Gentiles who reject Christ will be cut off also, for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare the unnatural branches. If you read Romans 11 (should God give you understanding) you will see. In order for the original branches that were cut off to be 'grafted in again', they must 'not persist in their unbelief' (Rom 11:23).

2 Peter 3:9 states, "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing [desiring] for any to perish but for all to come to REPENTENCE." The word "willing" doesn't mean His divine will is or is not accomplished.

While you think you cannot repent unless God forces you, consider what Jesus said in John 12:32, "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men to Myself." Likewise, Acts 17:30-31 state, "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is NOW declaring to men that ALL people EVERYWHERE should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished PROOF to ALL men by raising Him from the dead."

My desires are God's desires, and I wouldn't be spending all this time with others, if I didn't trust the Lord to convict them, to enlighten them and heal them. This is my hope. However, any believer who plants or waters is nothing, for it is God who gives the increase (1 Cor 3:7).


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

None of your business, You don't do inductive study, do you? The Hebrew and Greek words will tell you what words mean (just like the word 'hell' doesn't mean the same thing everytime you see it in the Bible).

Num 3:19 is stating that God is not a sinful man, in need of repentance unto salvation. Ex 32:14 means God had a change of heart (His mind). Even Judas' repentance/worldly sorrow (metamel?theis) was not godly repentance/godly sorrow {metanoein), but worldly sorrow (2 Cor 7:10). Therefore, if you do the word study, you will see it is not the same.

James 1:13 is to be tempted (peirazomai) with evil, while Gen 22:1 is to be tested (God tested [nis·sah] Abraham).

Ex 20:5/Deut 5:9 is speaking of the SINS VISITING; this is not the same thing as to choose to commit those same sins, for which every man is accountable for himself.

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