Universal Salvation: Response to galatians22067-3

Comment from galatians22067 to Hub #2

galatians22067 ~ would you feel respected and "loved" enough with an 1,800 word response? Seems to me you still want to spout and need attention ~ you need answers ~ or is it you need more to debate? I had time, and I felt to led to go ahead and let you dig yourself in deeper ~ of course, for yet more evidence of how twisted your doctrine is. I will quote your entire comment to my hub Universal Salvation: Response to galatians 22067-2 here:

You said: Look at the second part of your letter. Yes I called you dumb and I apologized that I misunderstood you and admitted that my comment made no sense in regards to what you were saying ! Did I not ? On the other side though you do not do this ! Now when you claim to me that the many in Romans 5 does not mean all and I write back and prove it does and you do not post it what does that say about who is lying ? I show you verses that are absolute in regards to why we choose God and you focus on the relative instead of the absolute ! You thought you had a good answer for John 15:16 but its total insanity to say this only refers to the twelve apostles and its not true for anyone else. The sermon on the mount was only given to the apostles, does that only refer to the apostles ? How about John 15:19 He is still talking to the 12 apostles Does the world only hate the twelve apostles that God has choosen out of the world ? UNREAL!!

You did not even dare to comment on 1Cor 4:7 ! I showed you proof that you love to ignore the absolute to focus on the relative in Philp 2:12,13 and you ignored verse 13 . Work out your own salvation - relative! Because it is God which works in you - Absolute ! Than you write back and say Philp 1:29 only refers to believers ! Of course thats true . What else would I be trying to say , That it is given to unbelievers to believe ? It is given to unbelievers to suffer for Christ ? That is exactly my point this verse refers to believers. IT IS GIVEN UNTO YOU TO BELIEVE ON CHRIST ! THEY DID NOT DO IT OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL ! What are you saying that Paul meant it was given unto you that have freely chosen to believe the gift of belief ? UNREAL ! UNBELIEVEABLE! Like I said you do not believe Eph 2:8 that our faith is not of ourselves!

You do not like these verses because they shoot canon ball holes through your doctrines. You focus on relative statements and this puts creature worship higher than creator worship to the point where you turned the truth of God into a lie, invented an evil thing are unmerciful and despise the words of God ! Its total lawlessness. It was given unto Paul not to be disobidient to the heavenly vision and it was predestined that Judas turned Christ over so that the scriptures must need to be fulfilled.(Acts 1:16 4:28). You do not believe any of these verses are true. Heres a revelation for you ! God has a plan !! WOW ! Isnt that something. He declared the end from the beginning.

Do you honestly think that when Jesus said to go only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel that everyone else was just going to be forsaken besides Israel ? Just go to Israel and everyone else will just burn in hell forever ! Thats a pretty strong position to hold agaisnt the fact that God desires everyone to be saved even if you do not believe he is going to accomplish his will.(Ish46:10,11/1Tim2:4) . All these things happened to Israel for our example ! God has a plan ! The thought of God going to the Gentiles enraged the Pharisees and Scribes and the thought of God saving all enrages you. Just like Israel you see no election outside of your own. Just like Israel you would do what never entered into Gods heart(Jer7:31) and burn people in fire before you repented of this grossly insane and evil doctrine. How would you consider that a blessing from God ? Would you not be upset to see someone you love and care about burning in hell forever ? God says he will wipe all their tears away and their sorrow. THEIR IS NO SORROW ! You have to be one sick minded person to not be sorrowful in knowing someone you love or anyone by that matter is burning in hell forever. I guess God and His elect will just have to deal with it. Your saying satans power to kill steal and destroy is much greater than Gods power to save! This is what you believe. You would never say it but its easily deduced from all your doctrinal positions.

You have no choice but to admit that Jesus was manifested to save the whole world and destroy the works of the devil and God desired him to get it done and desired to save all but they were enourmously defeated by satans deceptive power. YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS IS TRUE ! Anyone with one drop of the spirit of God knows this a lie. Heres a parable for you : Two men went up to pray . Luke 18:10 ..... "I dont know why all these people just dont choose Christ like I did." " THANK YOU GOD FOR GIVNG ME THE STRENGTH TO BELIEVE ON YOUR SON !" Your attitude is the former and it is quite clear that you are a Pharisee !

Heb 1:8 - This is talking about Jesus and His throne(His reign and kingdom) being forever and ever . Literal translation for the age of the age !

Rev 11:15 - Jesus shall reign for ever and ever ! Literally ages of the ages !

Rev 20:4,6 - They shall reign with Christ for a thousand years !

1Cor 15:25 - He must reign UNTIL He has put down all enemies !

So which one is it ? For ever and ever , for a thousand years or until he subdues everything ? You can not turn UNTIL into an eternity, you can not turn 1000 years into an eternity but you can turn for ever(aion) into an age because that is what it means ! It does not mean eternity. Anyone can see this ! It is not even hard to see !

Here is Strongs on the word UNTIL

G891 G3757 - It is used many times and here are two Rom 11:25,1Cor 11:26. The Blindness ends on Israel . Showing the Lords death ends when He comes. Christs reign ENDS when he puts down all enemies. I dont think Paul was wrong ! I am going with Paul you can go with your poorly translated KJV Bible. THE PHRASE 1000 YEARS IS A PERIOD OF TIME NOT FOR EVER AND EVER ! The kingdom never ends because we are told it never ends Luke 1:33. When Christ subdues all things there is no need for Him to rule any longer. He rules reigns and seeks that which is lost until all is subdued back unto him.(Heb2:8) than the same way all is subdued(5293) to Christ will Christ subject(5293) Himself to His Father and turn all rule and power over and God becomes ALL in ALL. At this point there is nothing to rule over because God is ALL in ALL ! He must reign UNTIL !! Its not my opinion I JUST PROVED IT !! His saints help him judge the world using the principles he taught us. Love ,mercy ,forgiveness righteousness - The fruits of the spirit ! Your judgements are nothing but works of the flesh and the wrath of man not the righteousness of God.(Gal5:19-21/Jam1:20). YOU SEE NO JUSTICE IN CORRECTION !

Ok its your turn -

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world(AION) are come.

I understand how the ends of the age are come but Can you explain to me How we have an end of the eternity ? Post this letter or erase the hub .


So, you apologized for calling me "dumb", but let's add "liar", "insane", "Pharisee" and so many other insults to the name-calling now, shall we?

“Many” in Rom 5:15 says “many” and means “many”, not “ALL”. John 15:9 begins in John 13:1, the Passover meal with His disciples. Jesus was speaking to His eleven remaining disciples all the way through 18:1. Jesus says a prayer to the Father in John 17:1-26.

Now, take note that Jesus doesn’t pray for “those in the world” in John 17:9, but those who are His (the eleven, for Judas was “lost” in verse 12), but then He includes those who believe the message His disciples preach in verse 20. See, He only intercedes on behalf of His chosen and the believers that are grafted in, saved by faith in their message! Why did Jesus teach the disciples? So THEY could preach to the lost! Acts 10:47 and more scriptures say that we, by faith, receive the same Spirit as they!! Like the Apostles, believers continue to preach to the lost!

Jesus said He was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel (Mat 15:24), but who was Jesus speaking to? A Gentile woman! He still healed her daughter ~ why? Because of her faith!! The message of the gospel was taken to the Jews first, as directed by Jesus (Mat 10:6), but He also told them the gospel was to be preached to the uttermost parts of the earth (Acts 1:8). Peter and Paul later took the gospel to the Gentiles, as ordained by God (John 10:16; Acts 18:6; Rom 1:16).

Regarding 1 Cor 4:7, let’s start with Eph 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith”. No one can come to the Father unless the Father draw him, right? How many are drawn and when are they drawn? John 12:32 tells us: “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto Me.” So, when did Christ shed His grace upon the world? When He shed His blood! He gives His grace freely. It is a gift! (Eph 2:9) Everyone has the grace already to respond to the drawing of the Lord by the Holy Spirit. Faith then comes by hearing the Word of God! (Rom 10:17) This has already been discussed. So, all those Jews who couldn’t “see” or “hear” while Jesus walked the earth ~ let’s see, 3000 were saved on the day of Pentecost alone!

So again, Eph 2:8 states that by grace (freely given) we are saved through faith. Grace to get saved is what is free! It is salvation that is not of ourselves! The Jews felt they were saved by WORKS. This is why verse 9 says, “not of WORKS, lest any man should boast” ~ boast of what? SALVATION BY WORKS. Grace is freely given, whereby faith is obtained when we hear the gospel.

Does Man have a will? Yes. What did Jesus pray in the Garden of Gethsemane? “Not My will, but Thy will be done.” Gee, I think He just said He had a will! Can Man CHOOSE to REJECT Christ? Absolutely (Luke 10:16; John 12:48; Rom 1:16 ~ just to name a few).

Regarding Phil 2:12-13, let’s go back to Rom 6:16: “Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?” Does a slave do His Master’s will? Are we not controlled by the Holy Spirit within us (Rom 8:9)? Are we not new creatures in Christ? (2 Cor 5:17) Are we not transformed by the renewing of our minds? (Rom 12:2) Yes! God works all of this in those who are saved by His grace through faith! This explains Phil 2:13 “for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.” AS WE AGREE, THIS PERTAINS TO BELIEVERS ONLY.

Regarding Isa 46:10-11, did Jesus not say the Lake of Fire is “reserved for the devil and his angels”? Did He not say those who reject Him will be cast into the eternal [aionios] fire? (Mat 25:41) Will He do what He said? YES.

Regarding 1 Tim 2:4, I told you to look at the cross-references and gave you the link. They are Eze 18:23 & 32: “Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,’ declares the Lord GOD, ‘rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?” and “For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,’ declares the Lord GOD. ‘Therefore, repent and live."

Jer 7:31 speaks of pagan sacrifices to Molech. Read the previous verse 30! This again should PROVE to you that Geenna, the Lake of Fire, is not a purification, let alone a sacrifice for sin when it comes to our God!! It is final death and destruction, but is ETERNAL. As I said in the previous comment to you ~ the beast and false prophet are still burning in there when Satan is cast in a thousand years later! (Rev 19:20-20:10)

You seem to think we will have sorrow in heaven because of lost loved ones burning in hell? NO WAY. I already told you they are tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb! (Rev 14:10) Are we going to BE holy angels? Are we the LAMB? NO! To choose to follow a false doctrine for the sake of comforting your soul, so as not to grieve the fact that lost loved ones WILL burn in hell, is to love the creation more than the Creator! You are guilty of this! Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate [means to regard as inferior] his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.”

What do you mean I “have no choice” when you honestly teach that man doesn’t have the ability to choose? You contradict yourself! Jesus has destroyed the works of the devil. The devil is destroyed (condemned), so was Judas, and so is anyone who is not saved (John 3:18). They will face the judgment (krisis) and be sentenced to HELL for all eternity. Now, if the devil had more power than God, that wouldn’t happen ~ the devil, his angels and all those who reject Christ Jesus would still inherit eternal life! That is what YOU believe and it is a doctrine from the pit of hell! You are the one saying the devil is more powerful than God!!

“Anyone with a drop of the spirit knows this is a lie”? Are you blaspheming the Holy Spirit now? That is the unforgivable sin! Now ~ if it is called an UNFORGIVABLE SIN (Luke 12:10; Mark 3:29) ~ how in the world, or the next world, would you think the Lake of Fire could “forgive” that sin? That is impossible!!

Does Luke 18:10 state, “I dont know why all these people just dont choose Christ like I did"? Read it again and the whole passage at that (through verse 14). This is a Jew who felt he was saved by His WORKS. The tax collector knew he was a sinner and was humble. Why do you think the Law was given? Because we could keep it? NO! The Law was given to convict the world of sin, not so anyone could feel righteous because of it!!

We’ve discussed eternal, everlasting and for ever and ever. If you don’t believe in eternal life after death (that there will be NO SECOND, third, fourth, etc. death of believers), you are DECEIVED. Likewise, if eternal life is ETERNAL, so is HELL.

Rom 11:25 is just further instance of the Jews not being able to “see” or “hear” until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in (grafting in). It was because the Jews rejected (by free will) Christ’s gospel that the Gentiles were brought in!! However, if their “veil remains” today, why is that? 2 Cor 3:14 “for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ.” And what does verse 16 say? “but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.” You said, “The Blindness ends on Israel.” Is that what the Word says? NO!! Only those who turn to the Lord!

1 Cor 11:26 is about the Lord’s supper, a sign of the New Covenant in His blood, continuing in remembrance of Him until He comes; just like the signs of the Old Covenant, outward circumcision and the slaughtering of a lamb ~ replaced by the New Covenant of inward circumcision and accepting the Lamb of God’s sacrifice for our sin. That is what was meant by “until the Seed should come” (Gal 3:16-29). Once again, the "signs of the Covenant" are temporal; the Covenant itself is ETERNAL. What is the Covenant? Reconciliation of Man to God! Not circumcision or communion. Those are signs of the Covenant!!

Christ’s reign never ends because He is God. You don’t believe this, and that is why you are of the father of lies. Read Isaiah 9:6 “For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”

Regarding Heb 2:8, what do you read in 1 Cor 15:27? “For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, ‘All things are put in subjection,’ it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.” Christ is the exception!

Gal 5:19-21 simply state the sins of those who will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. We are all sinners (Rom 3:23), and only faith in Christ can free us from its dominion, making us the righteousness of God in Him! (2 Cor 5:21) There is no other way! (John 14:6) If any man says he has no sin, the truth is not in Him! (1 John 1:8) Have I said to you I have no sin? NEVER have I said that. In Christ I am made spotless and blameless (Jude 1:24) and do not face judgment (Rom 8:1). How do I know this? I have FAITH and am saved by that FAITH, which came freely by His grace when I heard the gospel. What about YOU?

This is how God sees His children when it comes to sin: Rom 7:15-17 "For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me." Prior to salvation we ARE dead in our trespasses and sins. The saved, however, WERE dead in trespasses and sins! (Col 2:13)

James 1:20 speaks of man’s anger; God has anger, too. He even HATES; did you know that? (Rom 9:13). He tells His children to “hate what is evil” (Rom 12:9) and to “hate wickedness” (Heb 1:9). This is righteous hatred! God is righteous! He will judge righteously, too. His wrath will fall upon all those who reject Him. Believers are not appointed to His wrath, but we will suffer tribulation while here on earth.

Once again, you are proven contradictory to scripture ~ the spirit of lies. To call me names or to even comment, and I quote galatians22067 says: 5 hours ago 'I will gladly receive you with open arms when you stop teaching the world this nonsense but when you speak agaisnt the scriptures you are out of your league !', it is such a reflection of your father, the Accuser, the proud and the father of lies. Am I not “loving my enemy”? That truly is a fruit of the Spirit of God. It is not of myself; I can tell you that. The only arms I want to be received into are the everlasting [olam] arms of my Father.

To continue with hub #4: Universal Salvation: Response to galatians22067-4

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Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 6 years ago from HubPages, FB

Hey Carrie, how wonderful job you done! Congrats.

I understand that Universal group has accepted anything the members want. It is ecumenical danger.

If you allowed me I would like to make small correction, may I?

We are not sinners any more we are new creation. Paul is saying in past tens. Sinner and sin are two different matters. We may sin, but it does not make us sinners. When believer sin, he has available repentance to solve and correct the problem. Actually Paul is calling not any more sin but work of the flesh (Gal.5). Do you still love me? I do.

Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Hi brother Vladimir and thank you for reading. I think I understand what you're saying, but would like to be more clear regarding the subject of Christians and sin.

First of all, the Word says "if we say we have no sin, the TRUTH is not IN us". Unbelievers do not have the TRUTH IN them, so this is in reference to believers. Romans 7:15-17 states, "For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. Now if I practice what I don't want to do, I am admitting that the law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but SIN which dwells IN me."

Truly, there is a separation of flesh and spirit when we are in Christ. Our flesh will sin, but because of Christ in us, we are no longer enslaved to it. We are convicted of it, able to repent of it, and receive His gracious forgiveness. For this reason, Paul said in Rom 6:14 "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

Likewise, Paul said we are not to take advantage of the grace of God in that we sin all the more, becoming lawless, so "grace may abound". We are now slaves to righteousness and our sin is overcome, covered by the blood of the Lamb, whereby we are spotless and blameless and will inherit eternal life. Praise God!

Christians are sinners saved by grace. Unbelievers are sinners with no covering; they are enslaved to sin ~ their master ~ and will receive the wages of eternal death.

I think we're saying the same thing ~ just needed to clarify it. Be blessed!

galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

We still have yet to see your answer to the first part of my letter or it be posted ? Why is that ? You are still testifying agaisnt yourself but not answering my questions about olam . I have an answer for all your questions . One at a time . You gave up when I pressed you on the first post. If it was so heretical you would have posted it and answered but you have no answer !

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Rom 5:15 But the two are not the same, because God's free gift is not like Adam's sin. It is true that many people died because of the sin of that one man. But God's grace is much greater, and so is his free gift to so many people through the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ.

How many people die in Adam only some ? It says many for Adam also how many is that . The one man plus the many equals all . As In Adam all die.

How many people are justified by Christ only some ? It says many for Christ also how many is that . The one man plus the many equals all. So in Christ shall all be made alive !

What ever you say about Adam is true for Christ only the only difference is that the gift of grace is much GREATER than the sin of Adam. Where sin abounds grace will abound the more.

Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

galatians22067, the first part of your letter that gives a link to lies about eternal, everlasting and for ever and ever? I have already given the truth. I will not post your lying link, nor will I succumb to your bullying. I didn't "give up"; I answered you! I rebuked your false teaching by NOT posting it here. I am responsible to protect my readers.

Regarding Rom 5:15, lets say this AGAIN. "But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the MANY died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the MANY."

I covered in this hub that the grace of God is free to give us the faith we need to get saved, which comes by hearing the Word of God. The MANY who die in their trespasses and sins are those who reject this salvation. The MANY under grace are those who do not reject this salvation.

Your math is Satanic. One plus the many equals ALL? 1 + 8 = 9. How many died in the flood? COUNTLESS. How many were saved? EIGHT. The One Who saves us is Christ Jesus. He did not get saved; He is the Savior. He is God. God saved eight in the flood. Did ALL die? Did ALL get saved? NO AND NO.

In addition to Rom 5:15, be reminded AGAIN of the following confirming scriptures:

Isa 53:12 “and He bare the sin of MANY”

Mat 20:28 “and to give His life a ransom for MANY."

Mat 26:28 “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for MANY for the remission of sins.

John 1:12 "But as MANY as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name."

Heb 9:28 “So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of MANY”

If I ask you to count ALL the jelly beans in a jar, you will count ALL of them. Does that mean you counted ALL the jelly beans in the world? NO!! Likewise, ALL WHO BELIEVE IN CHRIST BY FAITH are saved!! It does not include the whole world!!

God's grace covers only those who believe!! It is nullified to those who reject it!! Even you stated there are those who nullify the grace of God. You are confused, and God is not the author of confusion.

Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 6 years ago from HubPages, FB

You are absolutely right in quotations. But there is difference between status and activity. I did not say we do not sin. It would be lie. I am saying we are not any more sinners. We were sinners but we are not any more, but new creation, new man. Let me give the example: If prisoner get amnesty is free and not prisoner any more (status). He still may sin. We know that nobody is free of sin in our flesh; just only Jesus was without sin.

I know term “we are sinners saved by grace”, but it is (I think) tradition which say so not the Bible. Please correct me if I am wrong.

To clarify this is that we are saved by grace, but our status is different even activity is not perfect.

Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Brother Vladimir, As Christians, we still sin, but as you eloquently said, "I am saying we are not anymore sinners". Christ Jesus saved us from the wages of sin, which is spiritual death. When we are in Christ we don't walk after the flesh [serve sin], but the Spirit [serve God]. We are not enslaved to sin, but overcome all things through Christ. We are holy because He is holy.

Romans 7:24-8:1 gives us our victory: "Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. Therefore there is now no condemnation [krisis - judgment] for those who are in Christ Jesus." Hallelujiah and AMEN!!

Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

galatians22067, I have posted yet another hub to answer you: http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Universal-...

no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York

Carrie this, like the last hub, was crystal clear. It is evident that you have tried and now the Spirit needs time to convict as only He can. I just hope this soul has enough time to come around because there isn't much left. It is certainly not because this was unintelligible. To the contrary, it should be bookmarked by all universalists so that they can read it over and over. Like it or not truth is truth. It isn't always easy to hear but it is what it is. You have shown patience and love. All these are without excuse.

Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Praise God for your confirmation in Christ, brother Bob. I do pray these hubs bring glory to our Lord. I often wonder what it's like to witness to Satanists ~ I've heard about miraculous conversions and what glory they then bring to Christ in their testimonies! I prayed for this man, galatians ~ what God showed me is this: the more truth he receives and rejects, the worse his condemnation.

All I know is this "bottom feeder" wants to stay no the line and is fighting like "hell". We are fishers of men, amen? Will he snap the line and continue feeding on his muck and mire?

I wrote yet another hub(#4), which is shorter ~ but I always love to hear your feed-back, to make sure what I've written is crystal clear. Blessings to you and I love you in the agape love of the Lord!

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