Universal Salvation: Response to galatians22067-4
galatians22067 said, and I quote:
When did you explain how the wicked prosper for eternity ? When did you explain how olam is used in the plural ? When did you explain to me how people were alive before eternity? You didnt but you somehow justified it in your own mind that you have ! Where is the answer ? You gave your side and I hit it out of the park and your afraid of it so you do not go near it ! You claim you rebuked "my false teaching" by not posting it so your saying everything that you did post that I said was correct ? Lol Wow! If it was that heretical you would post it ! You think everything I post is heretical but this you can not answer so you dont post it. THIS IS FALSE WITNESS AND A TESTIMONY AGAISNT YOURSELF ! It does not matter who is right . You can not post just what you feel like . You can not say im going to partake in a discussion with this person about Olam but everything he says about our discussion I am not going to show . THAT IS A LIE AND A FALSE WITNESS AND THE LORD HATES THIS PRVBS 6! You need to either show why I do not believe Olam is eternal or erase our entire 3 conversations because there are many things that I was right about that you just ignored. Lets see how honest of a person you are . Does the word Olam mean eternal 100 % of the time it is used ? You will give account of all this to God. Ok Ill reason with you since you do this out of love for me right ? I responded with a good intelligent response of El Olam the God and King of the ages with an in depth study on the name itself because I honestly feel this is true ! I showed you what I believe and why I believe it out of love to discuss my beliefs. I am not afraid of what I believe apprarently you are ! So out of love for me explain to me how people were alive before eternity ? Explain to me how the wicked prosper for eternity ? Explain to me how Olam is used in the plural ? How do you a plural of eternities ? YOu ignore this post but youll argue verses because you can twist those but you can not twist this so you wont discuss it. Show why I do not feel Olam is eteranl or erase our talks.
Yes 1 plus the many equals all BECAUSE AS IN ADAM ALL DIE ! Are you saying that people sinned outside of Adam ? All sin comes through Adam to all . Again your twisting my words to create an argument for yourself . When did I say Jesus needed to be saved ? I showing you its a direct contrast All in Adam all in Christ . If your argument is true it should say few because 8 is a few not the many . One plus the many is ALL ! It should say where grace abounds sin did abound the more. This is ridiculous. All the verses you quote are true you just do not understand that everyone gets saved in their own order ! It does not happen at one time !
galatians22067, You said the wicked prosper for eternity? Where do you get that? Look up all the verses regarding the wicked prospering: Job 21:7; Ps 37:7; Ps 73:3, 12; Jer 5:28 and Jer 12:1. "Olam" does not mean "eternity" (aionios); it means "everlasting" or for "ever" and "ever". It doesn't even mean "ages" (aion). In Ps 73:12 it translates as "always". So, for you to say "how the wicked prosper for eternity" is incorrect. The one verse that says "the wicked are always at ease" is a case where you must consider the other parts of the defintion, or else it will contradict the rest of the verses about the fact they only prosper (and are "at ease") in this life. We will get into more about applying definitions in a moment.
The Bible is clear that the prosperity of the wicked benefits them only in this life. The writers of old, although recognizing that the wicked prospered, also recognized that the wicked would eventually be punished (Job 21:16-34; Psa. 37:1-17; 73:17-19). They inform us that the wicked are reserved for destruction, their prosperity is momentary (Luke 12:16-21) and that they are to be eternally [aionios] cut off
Regarding El Olam [everlasting God] being plural, so is El Ohim! Do you not understand that God is plurality? You don’t believe in the trinity, and I don’t believe there are three separate beings of God either. I wrote a hub to explain how God is the Holy Spirit, the Father of Jesus Christ, yet the Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ are the same. He is one. It’s called Let Me Tell You WHO GOD IS! I don’t expect you to understand this concept, as it is only revealed by the Holy Spirit to those who are His.
What scripture passage would you like to quote to say WE were alive before "eternity"? Jesus Christ, God the Savior (Yehowshuwa) was pre-destined since the beginning of the world to save fallen Man, per His criteria set forth in His Word. Scriptures such as Pro 8:23 are speaking of Christ (look at verse 12 ~ Wisdom is the Spirit): “From everlasting [olam] I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.” Cross-reference as the Bible shows to John 1:1 and John 17:5.
You “hit it out of the park”? This is your pride speaking, once again. The truth is, you struck out. You keep calling me a false witness? Who stands by you? God is my witness (Rom 1:9). I have posted your very own words. Don’t they all agree with each other? Lies are lies. You keep telling me to either post everything (your link to heretical teaching) or erase everything? Why? Does your belief lie only in that one link? You can’t stand on your own?
Let me tell you something once again. The Bible does NOT contradict itself. We don’t pull out one scripture and make a whole doctrine out of it. We must cross-reference everything and here we go about applying definitions: look at the word “hate” used in two verses that would appear to contradict themselves:
1 John 4:20 “If someone says, ‘I love God,’ and hates [despises] his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.”
Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate [regard as inferior] his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.”
Now, the word “hate” is the very same Greek word miseo, but the definition includes two meanings: to despise or to regard as inferior, which must be applied so as not to contradict. If you don’t have wisdom or discernment (both of which are gifts of the Holy Spirit), you would claim these verses contradict! The same goes for olam or any other word.
In Adam all die (all are condemned to eternal death). In Christ (do you know what that means?) all [who believe] enter into life. The rest will face their sentence already reserved for them, as we discussed. This takes us back to Rom 5:15 – CONFIRMED. Let’s confirm it again by John 3:18 “He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Truly, in Adam ALL of us are condemned...only those "in Christ" are saved from that condemnation. Those who reject Christ are still condemned.
Regarding Rom 5:19, you didn’t directly say Jesus needed to be saved. The point I tried to make is you said the One plus the many equals all. Who is the One? Christ. The MANY are all WHO BELIEVE. I will NOT say this again. The MANY who die in their sins (because of Adam’s fall) will NOT be saved because they rejected Christ Jesus as Savior and Lord. If you don’t understand that while Christ died for ALL, yet His grace only covers the sins of believers, for the Bible says it is nullified for unbelievers, you are yet DECEIVED. I don’t even think you’re completely reading my responses to you, are you?
You said “Everyone gets saved in his own order”, but it is YOU who misunderstand this verse! 1 Cor 15:23 states, “But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that THOSE WHO ARE CHRIST’S at His coming.” If you need to understand verse 24, here’s the Commentary, of which I did not write it! It’s Biblical! http://biblecommenter.com/1_corinthians/15-24.htm Just look at Heb 1:8 “But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever [olam] and ever [olam]: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom.” Who’s kingdom? Christ’s! He is God! Does His kingdom ever end? NO! Absolutely NOT.
For readers who wish to read hub #3: Universal Salvation: Response to galatians22067-3
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