Universal Salvation: Response to galatians22067-4

galatians22067 said, and I quote:

When did you explain how the wicked prosper for eternity ? When did you explain how olam is used in the plural ? When did you explain to me how people were alive before eternity? You didnt but you somehow justified it in your own mind that you have ! Where is the answer ? You gave your side and I hit it out of the park and your afraid of it so you do not go near it ! You claim you rebuked "my false teaching" by not posting it so your saying everything that you did post that I said was correct ? Lol Wow! If it was that heretical you would post it ! You think everything I post is heretical but this you can not answer so you dont post it. THIS IS FALSE WITNESS AND A TESTIMONY AGAISNT YOURSELF ! It does not matter who is right . You can not post just what you feel like . You can not say im going to partake in a discussion with this person about Olam but everything he says about our discussion I am not going to show . THAT IS A LIE AND A FALSE WITNESS AND THE LORD HATES THIS PRVBS 6! You need to either show why I do not believe Olam is eternal or erase our entire 3 conversations because there are many things that I was right about that you just ignored. Lets see how honest of a person you are . Does the word Olam mean eternal 100 % of the time it is used ? You will give account of all this to God. Ok Ill reason with you since you do this out of love for me right ? I responded with a good intelligent response of El Olam the God and King of the ages with an in depth study on the name itself because I honestly feel this is true ! I showed you what I believe and why I believe it out of love to discuss my beliefs. I am not afraid of what I believe apprarently you are ! So out of love for me explain to me how people were alive before eternity ? Explain to me how the wicked prosper for eternity ? Explain to me how Olam is used in the plural ? How do you a plural of eternities ? YOu ignore this post but youll argue verses because you can twist those but you can not twist this so you wont discuss it. Show why I do not feel Olam is eteranl or erase our talks.

Yes 1 plus the many equals all BECAUSE AS IN ADAM ALL DIE ! Are you saying that people sinned outside of Adam ? All sin comes through Adam to all . Again your twisting my words to create an argument for yourself . When did I say Jesus needed to be saved ? I showing you its a direct contrast All in Adam all in Christ . If your argument is true it should say few because 8 is a few not the many . One plus the many is ALL ! It should say where grace abounds sin did abound the more. This is ridiculous. All the verses you quote are true you just do not understand that everyone gets saved in their own order ! It does not happen at one time !  

MY RESPONSE:

galatians22067, You said the wicked prosper for eternity? Where do you get that? Look up all the verses regarding the wicked prospering: Job 21:7; Ps 37:7; Ps 73:3, 12; Jer 5:28 and Jer 12:1. "Olam" does not mean "eternity" (aionios); it means "everlasting" or for "ever" and "ever". It doesn't even mean "ages" (aion). In Ps 73:12 it translates as "always". So, for you to say "how the wicked prosper for eternity" is incorrect. The one verse that says "the wicked are always at ease" is a case where you must consider the other parts of the defintion, or else it will contradict the rest of the verses about the fact they only prosper (and are "at ease") in this life. We will get into more about applying definitions in a moment.

The Bible is clear that the prosperity of the wicked benefits them only in this life. The writers of old, although recognizing that the wicked prospered, also recognized that the wicked would eventually be punished (Job 21:16-34; Psa. 37:1-17; 73:17-19). They inform us that the wicked are reserved for destruction, their prosperity is momentary (Luke 12:16-21) and that they are to be eternally [aionios] cut off

Regarding El Olam [everlasting God] being plural, so is El Ohim! Do you not understand that God is plurality? You don’t believe in the trinity, and I don’t believe there are three separate beings of God either. I wrote a hub to explain how God is the Holy Spirit, the Father of Jesus Christ, yet the Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ are the same. He is one. It’s called Let Me Tell You WHO GOD IS! I don’t expect you to understand this concept, as it is only revealed by the Holy Spirit to those who are His.

What scripture passage would you like to quote to say WE were alive before "eternity"? Jesus Christ, God the Savior (Yehowshuwa) was pre-destined since the beginning of the world to save fallen Man, per His criteria set forth in His Word. Scriptures such as Pro 8:23 are speaking of Christ (look at verse 12 ~ Wisdom is the Spirit): “From everlasting [olam] I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.” Cross-reference as the Bible shows to John 1:1 and John 17:5.

You “hit it out of the park”? This is your pride speaking, once again. The truth is, you struck out. You keep calling me a false witness? Who stands by you? God is my witness (Rom 1:9). I have posted your very own words. Don’t they all agree with each other? Lies are lies. You keep telling me to either post everything (your link to heretical teaching) or erase everything? Why? Does your belief lie only in that one link? You can’t stand on your own?

Let me tell you something once again. The Bible does NOT contradict itself. We don’t pull out one scripture and make a whole doctrine out of it. We must cross-reference everything and here we go about applying definitions: look at the word “hate” used in two verses that would appear to contradict themselves:

1 John 4:20 “If someone says, ‘I love God,’ and hates [despises] his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.”

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate [regard as inferior] his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.”

Now, the word “hate” is the very same Greek word miseo, but the definition includes two meanings: to despise or to regard as inferior, which must be applied so as not to contradict. If you don’t have wisdom or discernment (both of which are gifts of the Holy Spirit), you would claim these verses contradict! The same goes for olam or any other word.

In Adam all die (all are condemned to eternal death). In Christ (do you know what that means?) all [who believe] enter into life. The rest will face their sentence already reserved for them, as we discussed. This takes us back to Rom 5:15 – CONFIRMED. Let’s confirm it again by John 3:18 “He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Truly, in Adam ALL of us are condemned...only those "in Christ" are saved from that condemnation. Those who reject Christ are still condemned.

Regarding Rom 5:19, you didn’t directly say Jesus needed to be saved. The point I tried to make is you said the One plus the many equals all. Who is the One? Christ. The MANY are all WHO BELIEVE. I will NOT say this again. The MANY who die in their sins (because of Adam’s fall) will NOT be saved because they rejected Christ Jesus as Savior and Lord. If you don’t understand that while Christ died for ALL, yet His grace only covers the sins of believers, for the Bible says it is nullified for unbelievers, you are yet DECEIVED. I don’t even think you’re completely reading my responses to you, are you?

You said “Everyone gets saved in his own order”, but it is YOU who misunderstand this verse! 1 Cor 15:23 states, “But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that THOSE WHO ARE CHRIST’S at His coming.” If you need to understand verse 24, here’s the Commentary, of which I did not write it! It’s Biblical! http://biblecommenter.com/1_corinthians/15-24.htm Just look at Heb 1:8 “But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever [olam] and ever [olam]: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom.” Who’s kingdom? Christ’s! He is God! Does His kingdom ever end? NO! Absolutely NOT.

For readers who wish to read hub #3: Universal Salvation: Response to galatians22067-3

More by this Author


18 comments

galatians22067@yahoo.com 6 years ago

You really contradicted yourself bad in this response . You ask where did I get that the wicked prosper for eterrnity and than quoted me numerous scriptures that show that they do not that they only prosper in this life ! That is exactly true . You just admitted that olam means for a ceratin period of time because we have this verse of scripture :

Psa 73:12 Behold,H2009 theseH428 are the ungodly,H7563 who prosperH7961 in the world;H5769(OLAM) they increaseH7685 in riches.H2428 .

This verse says that the ungodly prosper for eternity and you just showed me numerous scriptures and even said that they only prosper in this life . This verse says they prosper for OLAM and you just admitted thats a period of time in limitation to this life not for eternity. YOU JUST ADMITTED OLAM DOES NOT MEAN ETERNAL !

Again your twisting my words to make an argument ! I was not talking about El Olam I am talking about olam being used in the plural . The word eternity not God ! How do we have a plural of eternities is what I asked ?

Josh 24:2 . It says that they dwelt on the other side of the flood before Olam !! How were they alive before eternity ?

Theres dozens and dozens of examples like this ! I showed you that God works in dispensations throughout ages and he is the God of those ages and is called the God of the Ages. I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob . Is this heretical to limit God to Abraham Isaac and Jacob ? No He just calls himself that . Its not heretical to call God what he refers to himself as ! Many Jewish people support this . Josephus says this many times !

I am very happy to discuss anything with you ! Look at what you say ."God is my witness" ! "You can not stand on your own" ! You threw my witness in the garbage because it was better that your yours ! You said sure I will have a discusion about Olam and you did not think I had such good points and when you saw them you threw them away ! Than you state that I can stand on my own ! Of course this is hard! Everytime I refute you you throw out my witness ! THIS IS FALSE WITNESS AND YOU CLAIM GOD IS YOUR WITNESS, I DONT THINK SO !

Why are you always all over the place ! Talk about one thing at a time please ! Can we agree to this ? I am guilty of this myself but from now on can you just talk about one thing at a time ?

Your interpretattions of Rom 5 is wrong ! It is a contrast between Adam and Christ the whole way through ! Anyone reading this can see this ! How many die in Adam ? All ! What does it say ? The one and the many !

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Does this only mean some ?

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead,

If through the offence of one many be dead. DEATH PASSED TO ALL MEN BECAUSE ALL SINNED ! THE MANY PLUS THE ONE IS ALL !

Its the same exact contrast with Christ ! The gift of grace by one man plus the many is ALL !

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

How many were made sinners by the one man ! ALL ! So by the obedience of one shall the many be made righteous !

According to you it should say few ! ITS THE SAME THING! ALL .

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Where sin abound grace did abound the more ! YOU ARE SAYING THIS VERSE SHOULD READ WHERE GRACE ABOUNDED SIN DID ABOUND THE MORE ! Thats what your saying and its complete heresy.


no body profile image

no body 6 years ago from Rochester, New York

With each interaction you clearly show that eternity holds different judgments for each individual. You are so correct that all who die in their sins cannot enter into eternity with God. In Adam all die, in Christ all live. When we receive Christ, we pass from death to life. Brilliantly written. I sure hope that all who read take note of the truths spoken in ministry to this man and use them to God's glory so that more folks go with us to be with our Lord and Savior. Love you sister.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Anyone can look up the word “olam” http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/5769.htm Olam never means “eternity” in English; it means everlasting and for ever (which really are the same thing, depending on the context). The literal English translation of this verse's use of "olam" is “Behold, these are the wicked; And always [olam] at ease, they have increased in wealth.” Olam translates as “always” in this verse http://biblos.com/psalms/73-12.htm . This is the one (1) use of the word “always” in regard to olam in the entire Bible (see first link and it’s usage). If I say you are “always complaining”, that does not mean you will complain for eternity (aionios) ~ maybe you will. Like I said, you can’t take one verse and build an entire doctrine on it. The cross-references tell us that the wicked do not prosper for ever. But, you deduct that olam NEVER means for ever and ever, everlasting! That would contradict all the passages I showed you where it DOES.

Likewise, Joshua 24:2 translates "olam" as “ancient times”, which is used three (3) times in the entire Bible (see first link again).

How do we have a plural of eternities? Can you find the word olam translated as “eternities” in the Bible ANYWHERE? Why NOT? I think because olam doesn't translate "eternity". How hard is that? If olam translates "age" and is plural, it means ages, and is translated as such in that case. There is no end to eternity. Only the Darby Bible Translation uses “ages of ages” as a plural of olam (example: Rev 7:12). Let’s see what 11-12 say: “And all the angels stood around the throne, and the elders, and the four living creatures, and fell before the throne upon their faces, and worshipped God, saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and strength, to our God, to the ages of ages. Amen.” This means "to our God for ever and ever". Do you dare limit God’s reign? Do the angels ever stop worshiping God? Read Rev 4:8 “and the four living creatures [around the throne], having each one of them six wings, are full of eyes round about and within: and they have no rest day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.” This would mean “past, present and future” ~ everlasting! Now, where else do we see “no rest day and night”? OH! The Lake of Fire (Rev 14:10-11).

Let’s just ponder on the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Why does He refer to Himself as this? Was He not the God of Adam and Eve, too? How about Job? Abraham is called the “father of faith”. The Covenant came through Abraham. Isaac is called the “son of promise”, and was a picture of the sacrifice of God’s only Son, the promise to come. Isaac’s son, Jacob is the father of the twelve tribes of Israel, the chosen ones (1 Chron 16:13; Rev 7:4-8). The Messiah came through the tribe of Judah. Gal 3:29 states that if we are IN CHRIST, then we are Abraham’s offspring.

Your witness is better than mine? Who’s the judge? YOU? Once again, your pride is showing. My interpretation of Rom 5:15 is not incorrect. You choose to believe what you want, not what is true. Does verse 19 say “ALL” or “MANY”? Surely, ALL of us stood condemned because of Adam, but those who receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior by faith are no longer condemned. Those who reject Him remain condemned. Did I say “WHERE GRACE ABOUNDED SIN DID ABOUND THE MORE”? Prove it. I never said that.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Hi Brother Bob, I think where these people get confused is since we are ALL in Adam, they assume ALL are in Christ. That's where they miss the mark. They don't understand we must be born again to be "in Christ", whereby we "were in Adam". Those who reject Christ are still "in Adam" under Satan's lordship and sentence of condemnation. Thanks for reading and for your love and encouragement. I pray the same ~ "Lord, deliver them from evil, for Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever [olam] and ever [olam]; Amen."


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

galatians, we've had over 500 reads in seven days on your issues alone, and where are those who support your twisted doctrine? I have chosen to move on with others and minister to the saints. You are wasting my time and energy, which is not of God. No more comments from or responses to you will be posted. If you choose to write your own hubs or publish your beliefs, do so, but that is your condemnation for influencing the world to expect some forcing of salvation, perhaps not in this life, but after death ~ and to deceive them that somehow they will be saved through the Lake of Fire. It is heresy. I wash my hands of you and shake the dust from my feet.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

ATTENTION READERS:

FURTHER UNIVERSALIST COMMENTS WILL BE DENIED AT THIS TIME, AS I SIMPLY DO NOT HAVE TIME TO RESPOND. I WILL NOTIFY IN THE FUTURE, IF I WILL BE TAKING YOUR COMMENTS. MAY GOD BLESS ALL WHO READ UNTO HIS GLORY. AMEN.


exjwlaurie 6 years ago

You GO Girl! My daddy told me when I was young, "Never argue with idiots, bystander's may not be able to tell the difference!" lol =)


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Hi sister Laurie! While that sounds like good advice, the Seed of truth will work its way into the soil of the heart prepared for it, and the Lord says His Word will not return to Him void. There is certainly scripture that tells us when to set boundaries, "flee to the next City", "avoid foolish controversies", "shake the dust from your feet"...I pray this labor is for the Lord and will ultimately bring awesome glory to His Name!! I love you so much!


aguasilver profile image

aguasilver 6 years ago from Malaga, Spain

Glad I found you here also.... Now do I call you JD or Carrie in the future!?

Good rebuttal....

John


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Hi John! JD is best; Carrie is just a handle ~ my name is actually Adelia :-) It's such a comfort to see you, John. I admire your wisdom and patience, as you know. You are loved and appreciated so much. Thank you for your words of encouragement. God bless!!


Bella 6 years ago

Hi Carrie,

This is my first time being on here,I hope I am doing this right.I was surfing the web on everything about our Heavenly Father,I seen you on another hub,I liked how you talked to this lady about the trinty lol..I need to ask you some questions about something that happened to me on 09/11/09 I closed my eyes my head tilted back alittle I had a breeze in my face,that changed my life,is that possible,I see and hear thinks differently then I use to.. I know this is not the real section to ask this,but I didn't know were else to go..

Thank you so much,

Bella


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

Hi Bella, sometimes no one else knows what happens in your spirit but you and God. A breeze certainly does represent the Holy Spirit (biblically) ~ actually, a mighty wind (as on the Day of Pentecost). If your life was changed in that you know the presence of the Lord and love God in your heart ~ it's a beatiful thing! God bless you!!


Bella 6 years ago

Thank you so much...And we are to keep the 10 commandmends,plus 2 more..Carrie I heard a ram horn blow a month ago off a train,I called the RR to see if they changed them they said,they didn't change the horns( but got a few other calls about that),Carrie I have dreams of seeing the Bible,and I had A dream I seen the Messiah,very brite like luminanting,he said something in my ear I heard a mans voice,and singing of nothing I never heard but it was beautiful,and He made blue flowers appear on my left wrist,and On the Messiah I seen an outline of like a scarf that came all the way down into the front,but was so brite I just seen the outline(and I thought all Jewish men wore a beenies all my life) I found out not to long ago Jewish men wear prayer scarfs,so YES indeed that was the Messiah..,and I also seen the arm of God outlined with stars letting go of a dove or something..

After the Breeze, I don't celebrate christmas or easter,my whole life did a 360 as of 9/11/09 and I don't know how to do the holy days from God,People pick and choose what they want to do, none of them do right,there is not one true religion on the face of this earth,I learned that since the breeze.And also I seen my sins,then I see others now its just crazy,and alls I want to do is talk about is God now,no-one wants to even be around me anymore,could this be Carrie?,I mean feeling and hearing all of this..I'm sorry to bother you I just wanted you to hear my storie,and for some reason I want to leave and move to Jerusalem,I won't go see my brother in LV 4 hrs,I don't like planes but I want to go Jerusalem 13 hours on a plane and it doesn't even bother me to live there knowing I don't even speak Hebrew...But I will tell you this none of this all my life has happened to me,now everything is happening since the breeze,Carrie I never read the Bible until that day!

Yes Indeed people need to repent, and turn from their ways,for YHWH is near...

Thank you again I am so greatful for beautiful people as yourself..

Love always

Bella


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

I LOVE your testimony, Bella. Jesus is God in the flesh (now Spirit); if you've seen Him you've seen the Father (John 14:8-9)!! Praise God! Yes, Jesus said if we love Him we will keep HIS Commandments. He quoted the 10 throughout the gospels; none other...summed up in TWO. I would love for you to come and read a couple of my hubs on this topic:

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/GOD-IS-LOV...

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/Stone-From...

When we have a supernatural experience with God, sometimes we are so overjoyed all we want to do is please Him, love Him, DO everything we think will honor and give Him praise. The DO DO DO of the Jewish Old Covenant is cautioned to us as born again children of God in Gal 4:9-11 "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

Remember, even if an angel from heaven preach to you another gospel, he is to be accursed (Gal 1:8). The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John the Baptist (Luke 16:16). The Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ (John 1:17). Don't let tradition and prideful men sway you away from the gospel of grace by faith, dear one.

I love you with His agape Love!!! Praise God!!!


Bella 6 years ago

Carrie,

I went to that other hub,and there was a different picture,it didn't look like you,so I will just comment you here,lol...The Sapphire stone the photo on that other hub that was the same color flowers God gave me in my dream....I don't know colors in the Bible yet..Carrie is Jesus name Yahusha,or Yeshua the Messiah,and He is Jewish?,and Gods name is -Yahuah YHWH..

Carrie when is your 4th commandmend Sat or Sun? And do you celebrate christmas and easter,or halloween? I am learning now and trying to figure it all out, it all came on me faster then lighting...And now I fear YHWH...

And the ones singing out of the Messiah mouth I never in my life heard singing like that on the sterio,or in any church..

Love always,

Bella?


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 6 years ago from Manhattan Author

The Lion and Lamb ~ that's my pic for Judah's Daughter (He's the Lion of Judah; I am the little lamb ~ His sheep) :-) I would love to have you join me there, sister!!

Yes, Jesus' name is Yeshua (Yehowshua - YHWH Saves). He is "I AM" ~ Hallelujah!

Regarding the 4th Commandment, Jesus is my Sabbath rest. Rom 14:5 "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." Everyday is the Lord's day in my life. Fellowship with believers as it comes, daily ~ I live and walk in the Spirit.

I am just so loving your testimony! God is with you!


DavePrice profile image

DavePrice 5 years ago from Sugar Grove, Ill

As Harry Caray would say, Holy Cow! Its always tough to drop in mid-conversation, as I have since I am new here, but I have to say this: I applaud your patience and sincerity in reponding to the comments that you have received against the truth of your words. I don't have the temperament to suffer fools - seems like a waste of good air to me. Which is why I am always impressed by someone like you who has the patience to continue the conversation. You inspire me to become better in this area - thanks for your words and example.


Carrie Bradshaw profile image

Carrie Bradshaw 5 years ago from Manhattan Author

Dave, thank you. I can tell you that God gives me insight into the hearts of these people. Some have been hurt deeply and are angry with God (there is hope in healing). Some hate the God of the Bible and so have invented their own god (God may have handed them over already to a depraved [delusional] mind). Some have genuine, though infant, hearts and need to grow.

While those who hate the God of the Bible think they can get me to hate Him, too, what they expose of their hearts only draws me closer to the heart of God. I understand more His reason/righteous judgment in destroying the wicked. And, if I only see the tip of the iceberg, how much deeper does He see?

God is working patience in me, though I don't often have enough to contend with the 'world', nor does He command me to do so. If He leads me to respond, I do. If He leads me to rebuke and ignore, I do. If what I do is His will, it is not in vain. This is my prayer.

God bless you, brother. I thank you again for your kind support and encouragement in the Lord.

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working