What Secrets Is the Vatican Hiding?

Secret Archives have about 5 miles worth of shelving, and it has been estimated it could hold about 70 thousand pages, and 1 million books. The Secret Archives was formally established in 1475, but is much older then that.

This large library is located Vatican City has been named in latin: Archivum Secretum Vaticaun or as it is called in English The Vatican Secret Archives. We have been told that the word does not mean secrets are being kept from us, but only that what is being kept in these archives are the Pope's personal property.

The Vatican also has a public library called: Bibliotheca Apostolica Vatican or in English it is called Library Of The Holy See. It is rather a research library and can only be used by men who write to the Pope for permission to use it. Then present documents which represent who they are, and their qualifications for research. Then and only then can they enter the public library. When they enter the public library the only things they can bring with them are a pen and paper. Nothing else. They will be accompanied by two priests and two guards. They will stay with him for the entire time he is there and follow him out when he is finished.

For years people have been wondering what is hidden in the Secret Archives and why? That is a very good question because the Secret Archives are actually guarded by Swiss Guards. The doors are very heavy and locked. The Catholic Church has been under much criticism for keeping information away from the public, so now 100 documents are going to be put on display from February 2012 until September 2012. These documents will be at Rome's Capitoline Museume, people will be allowed to see the document but not touch it. The document will be in a shot proof case and heavily guarded. This exhibition will be called: Lux In Arcana or The Vatican Secret Archives Revealed. The problem is however, it will only contain such documents as the last writing of Mary Queen of Scots before she was executed. It will contain similar writings, but nothing we have not already learned from what history has taught us.

There have been many theories as to what is hidden in the Secret Archives, some mundane and some not. These theories go from what I think is normal to what I think is crazy. The most widely held belief is that it holds books that have been banned from the bible. The theories then start to get stranger.

One theory is that Secret Archive has a time machine. The time machine is named Chronovisor and was built by a Benedictine Monk named Father Pellegrino. It was said he wanted to go back in time and film Christ's crucifixion.

There is another theory that the Secret Archive is in contact with UFOs, who are going to harm us. The UFOs are going to implant chips in us, and help the Pope take over the world.

How many more secrets is the Vatican hiding, and why? We have not been allowed to see them for some reason. The reason must be important, because the room the books are in is guarded. I am pretty sure there is no time machine. Also, no UFOS, but, the Vatican's problem is, if they keep the room guarded more people will think they are hiding horrible secrets. What if they are just keeping old documents safe? But, then again, why just hide old documents? Perhaps they are hiding something that will truly harm the Vatican. Then it would be important for them to keep the truth from us, keeping their secrets safe is very important.

Truthfully, I have no idea why the Vatican has a Secret Archive and has information that no one is allowed to see. But, what intrigues me the most is why? I mean, isn't the bible true?



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Comments 207 comments

kerlynb profile image

kerlynb 4 years ago from Philippines, Southeast Asia, Earth ^_^

Quite intriguing. So the documents would be displayed at the Lux In Arcana or The Vatican Secret Archives Revealed exhibition but people would not get to touch nor know about the scripts? Hmmm... I love historic documents so I hope one day they'll scan copies of the documents and let them go public for the people to appreciate.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for your comment. I also love historical documents. There is so much we could learn, I just wish they would let us.


alocsin profile image

alocsin 4 years ago from Orange County, CA

Not to be facetious but my guess is they keep stuff in there that is too fragile to be handled by researchers in the general archives. Voting this Up and Interesting.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for your comment alocsin. I'm sure material that old would be fragile.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 4 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

Last sentence has a spelling error: "But, what intreges me the most is why?" (intrigues) Definitely as the dictionary says: baffling.


Rachel Richmond profile image

Rachel Richmond 4 years ago from California

This is the same question I would ask my colleagues and all I got was, "why do you care?". Great hub. Voted, Twitter, Facebook :) Like I do... LOL


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Sorry for the spelling error. That was a bad one.

Thank you for your comment. Why they do not let us know what is in there, makes me want to know what is in there even more.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for your comment. facebook, twitter trying to increase traffic, I am a newbie.


JamesPoppell profile image

JamesPoppell 4 years ago

Interesting hub. I have always wondered why all the secrets. Hopefully one day we will know. Vote up.


michiganman567 profile image

michiganman567 4 years ago from Michigan

There was a show on the history channel where they went through the archives. Those things are HUGE!! There is so much information in there that even if it was opened up, we would be so overwhelmed that we wouldn't be able to find anything useful.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

It would be nice do some research. Even though there is a lot of information in there, there are a lot of people out here, who would read, translate, and find out.


cebutouristspot profile image

cebutouristspot 4 years ago from Cebu

Yes. That intrigue me too. I wonder what information they suppress. I know that there are far more writing that the vatican keep away from us. If they have nothing to fear this should be share to everyone and let them make their own choice.


Brenda Durham 4 years ago

I'm just as baffled by why the Pope himself is protected and secluded and treated like a king, and why the Vatican is a city-state (I guess it is?) by itself. Roman Catholicism is an odd set-up all around, yet so generally given unquestioning loyalty.

Thanks for the hub.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

It is very amazing isn't it? I do not understand it. The priests can do pretty much anything and not have any consiqences. Very strange. Thank you for your comment Brenda.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Cebutouristspot, I agree with you. Why are they keeping it locked up so much that a guard has to stand before the doors? Why won't they let ANYONE see it? Not anyone at all? Thank you for your comment.


gjfalcone profile image

gjfalcone 4 years ago from Gilbert, Arizona

I'm fascinated by this subject, and your presentation leaves me wanting more. Chronovisor you say. Voted ^ & interesting, shared & tweeted.

Thanks for Sharing Michele


AudreyHowitt profile image

AudreyHowitt 4 years ago from California

Interesting hub! And I do wonder what else is in the archive!


rabbit75 profile image

rabbit75 4 years ago

Wow, great interesting article Michelle. I really enjoyed it and am now wondering the same question myself. voted up and interesting!


Lawrence Da-vid profile image

Lawrence Da-vid 4 years ago

I find it fascinating that people consider maintaining "secret vault and secret's" seems to be a denial of their "rights." to know. They should sit down and read their own "Bill of Right"s" in effort to determine when and where that "right" was asserted, and in which country. Perhaps this maintaining "secret material" is justified by His Eminence "The Pope," and the Cardinals or staff in charge of these secrets. Personally I applaud the "Catholic Church" for maintaining their utmost "secrets" and not making public everything known. The United States should have such secret security and 'CLOSED MOUTHED enforcers and supporters.

Most Catholic's support their Church and it's doctrine. They don't question it, and therefore the Catholic Church remains strong. Other religions should and could learn legions from the Vatican and it's edicts.

Just possible, those wanting the "Church" to release it's information should check into the Religions and entities in their own back yard, for secrets.....they would be shocked as to "what" is kept from public eyes and ears.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Some of the documents in the Vatican City are years old. I do not think it is what the priests in the Vatican City have done. I think it is written what has been written, that they do not wish to be known by anyone.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

@ Rabbit, I have been wondering about this for a very long time. Why are they hiding this from us. Would this change what many believe in? Is it something that they consider dangerous to what they teach? Will they ever let anybody know? And why do they guard it?


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

@ Audery So do I!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you glf!


FitnezzJim profile image

FitnezzJim 4 years ago from Fredericksburg, Virginia

A cynic might be tempted to put forward the notion that the Vatican is abiding by the old maxim 'knowledge is power'.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Perhaps then I am a cynic, because knowledge is power.


Phyllis Doyle profile image

Phyllis Doyle 4 years ago from High desert of Nevada.

Very interesting hub, Michele. I also am intrigued as to what is in the "secret archives". If it has anything to do with the bible, God, or world history, then we all have a right to know what it is.

I agree that knowledge is power, but only when it is withheld from the public.

voted Up and Interesting.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Phyllis you are very correct. They are only hiding something they do not want us to see. That is important. We do have a right to know. And you are very correct, that knowledge is power, but only when it is witheld from us. Very good comment. Thank you.


KevinC9998 profile image

KevinC9998 4 years ago

Michelle: Another great hub, actually I never really cared what may be stored there but now after readuiing your hub I want to know! Voted up, Kevin


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you again Kevin! There must be a reason they are hiding it. Why else would they guard it? They guard it really well. Why does the pope want to hide from us?


Larry Wall 4 years ago

I am a converted Catholic. I know nothing about a secret vault or Archives. I will take your word that it exists. Archives implies that there is some order to how the material is stored. If that order does not exist, it would take years of research. I would assume, that the church would not want to reveal a draft of a letter for a former Pope that had inaccuracies. However, since it was one of the Pope's papers, it is in the Archives.

I am more concerned about the secret files the CIA might be keeping than what is in the Vatican Archives.

I will agree there is a lot of pomp and circumstance surrounding the Pope and the Vatican. I will agree that there were some very bad Popes in the past. I will also point out that there have been Popes who have been true servants of God including John XXIII and John Paul II.

The Vatican is a city state for its own protection. If it was a part of Italy, it would be subject to laws that would not rightfully apply to the Vatican.

You remarked that Priests are pretty much free to do what they want. That is not true. Priests have guidelines to follow, Bishops to answers to, church congregations that are aware and they have a moral code, which the majority of Priests follow. Many priests belong to particular orders, such as the Jesuits and the Redemptorists, both teaching orders. They answer to their orders standards and to the church.

I do not think the archives have anything that would cause any repudiation of the Catholic Church. It is just a place to keep important documents. You probably have a file cabinet in your home that is not opened to the general public. Public schools maintain files on students, that even the students cannot see. Medical files are kept secret unless you release them.

Let's not jump to conclusions. I am certain that the archives, if they really exists will be opened to qualified researchers at some point in the future.

I don't think the Library of Congress lets you just browse through all of its holdings. Former presidents keep their personal papers confidential for years after their death.

Live for the moment. Today is today, regardless of what took place 600 years in the past.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

When did I write that Priests are pretty much free to do what they want? I did not write that. And no, we do not live for today, we as Christians live in the joy that Jesus Christ died to save us from our sins. Live for the moment makes no sense, when you are a Christian who knows what took place in the past about 2,000 years ago.


Greg Sereda profile image

Greg Sereda 4 years ago from Sandomierz, Poland

Interesting hub. Fifty miles worth of shelving is pretty deep!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for your comment Greg Sereda, It is a lot of shelving. Why they will not let anyone even near it, is horrible. Well, to me anyway.

Thanks again for your comment.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Michele, as we have discuss, I do not know anything about the existence of the secret archive and I have only limited knowledge of the "public" library.

You talked about how people have to be screen and are guarded and are only allowed to bring pen and paper. Think about it. These are ancient historic documents. We do not want some terrorist ripping something apart or staring a fire. We do not want a real researcher, dog ear a page, handle a book to roughly and so on. In the city where I use to live, a local archive was constructed to preserve the history of the city. One section was under extra security because the documents were irreplaceable. So, the requirements set forth by the Vatican do not seem to be out of line--inconvenient yes, out of line, no.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Larry, that does make sense, stealing or ruining something would be horrible. I do understand what you are saying and it does make a lot of sense.


trustpee profile image

trustpee 4 years ago from Yala, Cross River State, Nigeria

An informative Hub, but appears to be one of those attacks on Roman Catholic Church. Those Documents are 'artifacts' and need to be protected. If they are lost, they can't be gotten anywhere, that is why the church placed heavy security on them. I don't think the church is hiding anything that is unfriendly to the public. After all qualified and certified researchers are allowed access to the library.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for your comment. I do not mean to attack to Catholic Church. Whatever is in the Archives can be filmed. Pictures can be taken. Also, there are 2 libraries. One is public one is not. Not all qualified and certified researchers are allowed to see anything they want to see. Only what the Pope allows them to see.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 4 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

And recall that it was a doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church resulting in imprisonments, kidnappings, tortures, and burnings at the stake or in hot oil, that the Holy Bible was the exclusive property and for the exclusive interpretation of their church that was defied by the reformation. Yes, it has resulted in a fragmenting of the body of the church, but it would not surprise many in the world, if there happen to still be records, documents, archives that the Roman Catholic Church still believes to be sacred and to be protected from the eyes and discussions of the uninitiated today. If not, why should they also be only for limited or restricted viewing and study today in an age when whole libraries are easily made available for unrestricted viewing with no damge to any original works? The Gospel and true scripture will stand the tests of time, but secrecy when it comes to questions of eternal truths is what caused the reformation to occur, and what leaves questions of divine authority today.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Perspycaious I agree with what you just wrote. The secrecy probably makes it worse, then just letting us know the truth. When they are hiding it, people come up with all kinds ideas. Like the time machine.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Michele,

I have commented on this before and voiced some reasons why the vault may be secret. I will add one more reason. Vatican City is a sovereign nation, headed by the Pope of the Catholic Church, who also has the title, Bishop of Rome. Every nation has its secrets. Trust me, there are documents in this country that you will never see. I do not know what is in the secret vault. I am guessing and it is nothing more than a guess, that some writings of some former popes are in the vault. The Catholic church went through a troubling time in the early days, with some Popes having children out-of-wedlock (a double offense for a Catholic clergyman) and other activities. They may have written documents that are not within the teachings of the Catholic church. These documents may just be embarrassing to the church because of things that happen in the past. The Catholic church is not perfect, but it is highly visible. The sexual offenses by priests in recent years have been made very public. I do not think the church will ever hide anything in there again. There may not be anyone living who knows what exactly is in those documents. I assure you the President has not read all the secret CIA documents. As a church and as a nation, the Vatican has a right to protect itself and unless it can be proved that revelation of these documents will do more than satisfy the curiosity of some, then there may be no need to make them public. Some may be marked that there are not to be read for 2000 years. I do not know. As I have said before, faith wins out every time. There is no religion that I know of that has not had its own scandal, or leaders who did not fulfill their responsibilities and followers who sought to corrupt the teachings of their faith.

Unless you can read ancient Greek, Hebrew, Latin and other languages, I suspect the secret documents are going to be of much use to you. Then authenticating the documents is going to be another serious and time consuming task.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 4 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

One point strikes me in what you just posted, Mr. Wall: "...the Vatican has a right to protect itself and unless it can be proved that revelation of these documents will do more than satisfy the curiosity of some..." How can faithful Christians "prove" the value of openness for documents no one has seen!? There was a time when the sheer volume of documents in those archives would have been impossible to make public. That is no longer the case. Hiding potential faith building materials should not be excused. Efforts were made by some RC Church authorities to hide the abhorent sexual practices of some priests whose activities were "made very public" not by the Catholic Church, but by the victims themselves! Openness is the key to dispelling mistrust. As the papal state, just as with any sovereign government, the right exists to shred sensitive documents, although in the interest of history and truth the US Government is limited somewhat in doing so. A Christian church following the Gospel of Jesus Christ should never be afraid of truth, only the hiding of it.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

That is very true, translation is hard and mistakes can be made. And the church is more of a church, it is a nation. The Vatican City is a nation and this nation owns those writings. I understand what you are writing about. A nation cannot be forced to hand over any of it's documents to " just anyone "

Yes, the Vatican has a right to keep it's writings. That is why the doors to the Vatican library are still closed.


Jhudah 4 years ago

the vatican has so many secrets and so many rituals. the most striking thing they have done that made me seek the truth is their manipulation of the Bible and changing the 10 commandments i don't know why they have to do that.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Jhudah, I don't either. That is the reason I wrote this hub. Why do they have to hide anything from us? I agree with what you wrote. Why do they have to hide anything. What is their reason to hide something, and how does God feel about it.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 4 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

Update: The Vatican has received a foundation grant of more than a million dollars to digitize some (most/all?) of the library holdings to make them more available. There has been no public estimate of when that will begin or be completed, but it is certainly a welcomed step.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

I am Catholic. I do not know what is in the secret Vatican Vaults. There are probably some embarasing things, like letters from former popes to their mistresses. Yes, Catholics know that early popes had children out of wedlock.

There are probably documents written by some priests and sent to former popes that question teachings are practices of the Catholic church.

There is probably documentation about the gifts the Vatican has received over the years, financial records, etc., etc.

The Catholic Church is the first Christian church. Other Christian faths, particularlly the protestant reformation followed and separated from the Catholic church for a number of reasons. The Greek Orthodox Church, which does not accept the infallibility of the Pope, are still considered Catholics. By the way, for the non-catholic the infallibility of the pope does not mean that everything he says is correct. It is a doctrine that when he "speaks for the chair" on special matters that he is relaying God's message and therefore it is infallible. That does not happen often. By the way, I use the be a Baptist, and all of my Pastors always talked about God speaking to them. So it is not a unique concept.

Repeating what has been said earlier let me make a few points.

Vatican City is a sovereign nation and therefore like any nation will have state secrets.

You do not just let anybody go rummaging through old documents. I have no idea if the documents are cataloged or even documented. Sometimes, things just get stuffed away.

Some documents probably have time limits on when they can reveal, that might cover hundreds of years and the Pope is bound to honor that request.

The Catholic Church believes that Christ was born of the Virgin Mary. He began his ministry around the age of 30. He was baptisted by John the Baptist, his cousin. Catholics believe that Mary had no other children. Other faiths disagree.

Catholics look upon Mary as the Mother of Jesus and as a great intercessor. That is not in conflict with any other church that believes in intercessory prayer, i.e, will you please pray for me or my mother, etc.

Christ died on the cross so that our sins may be forgiven.

He rose from the dead and later ascended into heaven.

Catholics believe that at communion the wine and bread are actually turned into the body and blood of Christ. You cannot see the change, tastethe change. You accept it as a matter of faith, just as you accept as a matter of faith because you cannot prove that God exists or does not exist. it is a matter of faith.

While I am a Catholic, I am a convert of 22 years. I do not claim to know everything about the church. Mistakes were made the in the past--serious mistakes. Other religions have had their own share of mistakes, but just do not get the play that the Catholic Church gets because of its size.

The Baptist church I use to belong too, hired a youth director after I left that city. He turned out to be a pedophile. It can happen in any church.

The vaults will remain secret. I know God loves me, Christ died for me and my accepting that I have been promised the gift of everlasting life. I am satisfied.

I do not begrudge anyone their right to curiosity, to research and to ask questions. I do request that they respect the teachings and decisions of the church, even if they disagree.

The Catholic church does it has some dark spots in its early and fairly recent history. That does not mean they are hiding anything that will have an impact on the teachings of the church and the sacrifices made by the Priests, Brothers and Nuns over the centuries.


Ann1Az2 profile image

Ann1Az2 4 years ago from Orange, Texas

There are parts in the Catholic Church's history I don't suppose they are too proud of, like the torturing of the Christians, etc. It's not too surprising that they would have hidden archives when you consider the fact that the Vatican is a nation unto itself. The U.S. has hidden records, I'm sure!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Ann1Az2 that is a good point. A very good point. Thank you so much for your comment.


Cody 4 years ago

I believe its more then just what's being said, if they just wanted to physically protect the information, it would be gaurded but u would think we would at least know what's in the vault, but because its gaurded and we do

Not know what is in it makes me believe that they are more so hiding information rather then protecting it. With my best guess i would say there is money records, Information about the third fatima(left out information) banned books of the bible, information of on the ark of the covenent, personally i believe that this vault is key to a lot of life like questions,


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Cody I think you are correct, and there is even more then we can imagine. One of the most important questions to me is "Why?"


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 4 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

We (one day) will know the truth and the truth will set us free. So far, the secret archives are presumably filled with advantages and disadvantages for the Roman Catholic Church. We are not out to shake a finger and say "See! I told you so." We are charged with a great commission to take the Gospel to every kindred, tongue, and people. If there is anyting therein which could make that task more readily accomplishable, let's have that part of the Archives first, if not now.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Perspycacious, I don't think that will happen. For now we need to pray to God, and give our souls to Him. He loves us, and we love Him. The most important thing is His Son Jesus was crucified for our sins, the rose from the dead. We know that. That could not be hidden from us. Although, I still wish we could have the right to see what is in the Vatican, we do not have the right because the Vatican is a country. So, in being a country, it has the rights to keep the articles away from us. That is a fact.


Brenda Durham 4 years ago

Larry Wall, with all due respect to you as a Believer, there are several inaccuracies and misconceptions in your attempt to uphold the Catholic teachings.

The Catholic Church is not the first Christian church.

Mary being viewed as an intercessor is not the same as other denominations asking for prayer for their mother or anyone, because Mary is a dead woman. The dead cannot be intercessors. Jesus is divine. Mary is not.

If the communion wafer and wine actually turn into the body and blood of Christ, then the original disciples could've just reached over and taken a bite outta Jesus's arm or leg or whatever while He was here on earth. lol.

And there are other points. I'm not patient enough to go into all this in-depth right now. I simply ask that you use some common sense and Biblical sense, and search these things out yourself....

For instance, the Bible never says Mary is divine. It simply says she's highly Blessed. It never says she's the "holy mother of God" in the manner that the Catholic Church teaches. Matter of fact, it never says she was nor is holy. She was the physical mother of the physical body of Jesus. And it stands to reason that she was "saved", a kind of forerunner illustration to the way repentant people can be saved today by accepting Jesus into their hearts. Why the Catholic Church tries to promote her to the status of God like Jesus is God, is beyond comprehension unless they did it to distract the women with a useless "ministry" instead of letting them be priests.

Oh sorry, I got into the mood of elaboration there after all. Well, please search these things out for yourself, and soon you will see the error....


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 4 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

I urge respect for the beliefs of others as we comment on our own beliefs or seek to aid Christian understanding. Making a joke about the beliefs of others is simply disrespectful.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Brenda Durham:

With equal respect for your views, beliefs, opinions and right of free speech, I must respond to some of your statements. I am pasting below what you wrote and offering you a few comments. I am not trying to convert you to Catholicism. I am not trying to question your faith. I am trying to help you understand the meaning of what others may believe. I assure you I offer this with no other motive.

Your Copy is pasted below. My Comments will begin with LW: and will end with :LW

Larry Wall, with all due respect to you as a Believer, there are several inaccuracies and misconceptions in your attempt to uphold the Catholic teachings.

The Catholic Church is not the first Christian church.

LW: Matthew/16-18.htm

"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. King James Bible

That sounds to me like the origin of the first Christian church. If this is not the first Christian Church, please advise me. Now I agree that when "two or more are gathered in my name" a church is created. At least that is what I learned when I was a Baptist.:LW

Mary being viewed as an intercessor is not the same as other denominations asking for prayer for their mother or anyone, because Mary is a dead woman. The dead cannot be intercessors. Jesus is divine. Mary is not.

LW:We agree that a dead body cannot be an intercessor. However, the soul of that body, which is in its heavenly home can be an intercessor. Again I learned that in the Baptist and Catholic Church. Catholics, see Mary, as the early mother of Jesus, who conceived through the power of God, is in heaven, hears our prayers and intercedes on our behalf. As a former protestant, I pray directly to God. However, I have no doubt that Mary has a special place in Heaven:LW

If the communion wafer and wine actually turn into the body and blood of Christ, then the original disciples could've just reached over and taken a bite outta Jesus's arm or leg or whatever while He was here on earth. lol.

:LW The above comment is the closest you came to making a sacrilegious statement.

The Book of Matthew states in Chapater 26, vers 26-28 (by the way, I am using a King James Version for this information. The New Testament of the Catholic Bible and the KJV are extremely similar. The Old Testament of the Catholic Bible has four books not found in the King James Version. Let's get back to the blood and wine issue.

The Bible States:

Mat 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

So it appears that the bread and wine that Jesus shared with his disciples at the last supper had been turned into the body and blood of Jesus, so that his disciples could take it, without having to take a "bite out of Jesus' arm or leg," as you stated.

The bread and wine we received in the Catholic Church looks and tastes like bread and wine. It has been a change, but a change that we as mortals cannot understand. So we accept it as a matter of faith.LW:

And there are other points. I'm not patient enough to go into all this in-depth right now. I simply ask that you use some common sense and Biblical sense, and search these things out yourself....

LW: Sometimes common sense is what gets you into trouble. The ability to accept something on faith value along requires a real belief.:LW

For instance, the Bible never says Mary is divine. It simply says she's highly Blessed. It never says she's the "holy mother of God" in the manner that the Catholic Church teaches. Matter of fact, it never says she was nor is holy. She was the physical mother of the physical body of Jesus. And it stands to reason that she was "saved", a kind of forerunner illustration to the way repentant people can be saved today by accepting Jesus into their hearts. Why the Catholic Church tries to promote her to the status of God like Jesus is God, is beyond comprehension unless they did it to distract the women with a useless "ministry" instead of letting them be priests.

LW: You are mostly correct in what you saying, except you are not understanding what Catholics believe. Catholics do not try to promote Mary to the status of God. I will grant you that some Catholics, those who were born as Catholics and did not get proper instruction do often refer to Mary incorrectly. She can be correctly referred to as the Mother of God, but again as a Baptist and later as a Catholic, I accept the blessed trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Therefore, the separation of Jesus from God is one of those mysteries we have to accept.:LW

Oh sorry, I got into the mood of elaboration there after all. Well, please search these things out for yourself, and soon you will see the error....

LW: You give the impression that you do not have much use for the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has more rituals that most protestant churches. However, I was baptized as a Baptist. The Catholic Church accepted that baptism when I converted to Catholicism and basically went through the confirmation process. Catholics are Baptized as infants and then make an adult commitment with the Rite of Confirmation. Baptists are baptized when they are ready to make a understandable commitment to Christ. I was 10 when I was baptized.

Some Catholics put too much faith in medals and candles and prayer cards. Those are practices that just developed over the year and have been misinterpreted by some.

You can respond if you chose. This is Michele's hub and she can chose to allow this debate to continue or not. She and I have had our discussions. We consider ourselves to be friends and we have found the common ground on which we agree and I think we are comfortable with that. I am, but I do not want to speak for Michele. If you write additional comments she may choose to display them or deny them. That is her decision and I promise you I will not ask her to hide them. I will not draw her into the middle of this difference of opinion we share. If you do offer more comments, I will probably not respond, not because I am afraid or fear I will not have a good answer, but because I think I have made my point and I do not like to rehash stuff over and over.

I do not say the rosary, or any of the set prayers that Catholics learn as children. I pray spontaneously without anything written for me. I say the prayers that are a part of the mass. I listen to the scriptures that are read in Mass just as they were read in the Baptist. We sing hymns of glory about God, Jesus and Mary, just like we did in the Baptist Church. I have seen miracles in my own life.

There are people, and I think you fall into that group, that try to find differences, even perhaps try to create a wedge between Catholics and other Christian faiths. I try to find the similarities and common ground. I once heard a Catholic Priest state that all Christian believers are the children of God, separated for now, but still all children of God. Catholics do not expect to only find other Catholics in heaven. I know a few Baptists who are going to be surprised but maybe by the time they get to heaven, they will have changed their attitudes. Also, just for the record, when my wife and I was married, we had a Priest as the main celebrant, a second priest, who was a friend of my wife's family as a con-celebrant and my Baptist minister. We have been married for almost 32 years and I expect we will always be married--our faith has seen us through many trials and we count on that faith to lead us through the future.

I hope you accept these comments in the spirit in which they were presented--an attempt to clear up some common misunderstandings about the Catholic Church.

Is the Catholic church perfect--no. Have Popes, priests and other leaders made mistakes--absolutely and they will answer for those transgressions.

I trust y


natalie 4 years ago

hi i would just like to say that i was brought up catholic and to respect the catholic ways but as iv got older iv realised that too much is hidden from society and people in general that i want to know the truth if there is a god. and if there are hiden txts what do they say. i would love to know what the vaticans archives say. just to work things out for my self. i got a feeling were not told half of it. plus i love history and it facinates me to think what happened years ago.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

I too love history and I never said I was not interested. However, if the vault is opened tomorrow it may be decades before everything is translated,and some of it could be a trivial as what the stone masons were paid for building the churches. Do not assume that the secret of the ages are in those vaults. Geraldo Rivera found Al Capone's secret vault and it was empty. Titanic director James Cameron once claimed he found Mary;s grave. He didn't. As Catholics we believe May was taken to heaven without having to die an earthly death. If that is true, and I am not sure it is, what difference would it make. I still believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church.


Ann1Az2 profile image

Ann1Az2 4 years ago from Orange, Texas

Larry, the only way to find the truth of anything is to go to the Bible. That's the truth. If it's confusing, we ask the Holy Spirit to give us understanding. The Bible is the Word of God. It is how we get to know Christ and we can trust Him to guide us to the truth.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Ann1Az2 That is a very good answer. We pray to God, to lead us on the path He wants us to follow, and to understand, what He teaches us.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA

I tend to lean toward a purposeful deception by the RCC, since they have a history of doing so ~ anyone who would admit in their own Cathoic Encyclopedia to altering the original text of the holy Word of God cannot be trusted. It's no wonder their regime is suspected of being the Whore of Babylon/Antichrist of Revelation.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

I have not found the Catholic Encyclopedia you are talking about. There are a bunch of Catholic Encyclopedias, but I could not find one sanctioned by the church.

The Catholic Church made mistakes in the past, in recent times and will make them in the future. When I was a Baptist, our church did not welcome black Baptists. That is not a source of price.

You do not like the Catholic Church. That is your right and it is a right guaranteed by the constitution.

As far as altering the text of the holy word of God, that text assuming you are referring to the Bible has been altered by almost every faith.

There was a comment about the 10 commandments the other day. You cannot find the commandments listed in order in any mainstream bible. Therefore, differences are bound to occure. The basic ideas are the same.

I did not understand Catholicism for a long time. My wife, who has been a Catholic all her life never forced me to become a Catholic. We were married eight years before I made that decision.

I cannot explain all of the nuances of the Catholic Church here.

If you think the contents of the "secret vault" are going to offer some remarkable revolution, I suspect you are going to be disappointed.

A response frm Ann1Az2 telles me that the only way to find the truth of anythng is to go to the Bible. I agree 100 percent. But the Bible can be interpreted in many ways.

The commandments thou shall not kill--it does not make any exceptions for war, self defense, defense of family, etc.

The history of the Catholic Church is hard to understand. Many do not take the time to study it. Many just look at the recent sex scandals, forgetting that other churches have had similar problems.

I am a Catholic by choice, I was not born into a Catholic family. I am proud to be a Catholic. There are parts of the teachings that I accept as being part of the faith but still have questions. I will continue to believe in the teachings of the Church until I have a reason not to believe.

You may have your own belief. However, I urge you to find something you can believe in and not just believe against.

Finally, to all who may respond, I am not offering any more comments on this hub. (A cheer is probably going up right now.) I have explained what Catholics believe, the Catholic devotion to intercessory and acknowledge that the church has made many mistakes over the years.

I do not think there is anything left to say, except,

God Bless You.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 4 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

The Roman Catholic Church is having to face up to another potential scandal of enormous proportions in Spain which dates back to the time of Franco. Some mothers who gave birth to strong, healthy babies at that time believe that they were falsely told their babies had died, and claim that instead their babies were sold to Roman Catholic parents "who could raise them in a more religiously favorable environment." Their claims assert that the Franco regime, doctors, and nurses, conspired with the Roman Catholic Church's local leaders to issue false death certificates, steal, and sell the babies of parents defined by the church as "undesirable" especially if they were young, and not Roman Catholic at the time. The court cases will proceed in Spain, but we are unlikely to read any "secret records" which might exist on such a sinful conspiracy. Hopefully some defendants might ultimately tell the truth under oath, or following any convictions. We can wish the allegations might prove to be false. Time will tell.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Reading over this hub, I have one question. Since so many of you have no faith in the Catholic Church, why do you think these "secret documents" will provide any information that you believe or accept, since it has been assembled by the Catholic Church. It seems many of you want to discredit the Catholic Church, but want to do it by claiming the hidden documents will have some major revelations that you might actually believe.

I sense a lot of confusion on what is to be gained and what to expect.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Larry, you have told us that the Vatican City is a sovereign nation and therefore like any nation will have state secrets.

You do not just let anybody go rummaging through old documents.

It would be like the U.S.A allowing China to go through all of our secrets.

Even though I still want to know what is hidden in the Vatican Archives. I understand why we cannot enter into the Vatican Archives. You helped me understand a lot about this.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Thank you Michele.

I will only add one thing, I did a quick search on Google about this issue, and many of the books that are out there fall into the category of historical fiction. Some basis in truth with some embellishments and some assumptions.

One point that somebody made is that the Catholics kept books hidden so they would not be included in the Bible. Protestants use the King James Version or similar versions of the Bible. The Catholic Bible is different. It has four additional books in the old testament. A reading from one of those books was used at my wedding ceremony.

I understand the curiosity of people and I have no objections to fair and open minded research. I would be opposed to research by people who have preconceive ideas and do not do research the issues completely. I recently did a Hub about using the Internet and how you can find what you want and ignore the opposing views.

All faiths have modified the Bible. THere is a passage that says "make a joyous noise unto the Lord." I think it is the Church of Christ version that adds "without instruments." They do not use pianos or organs in their services.

I do not care if you are Catholic, Baptist, other or other Christian church. If you believe Jesus is the son of god, was born of the Virgin Mary, died on the cross in forgiveness of our sins and has promised us the gift of everylasting life, then we are on the same page. The Jews are the chosen people--I do not know what that means. I have never read the Koran so I cannot speak to that.

I think God is merciful. He forgives all of us, even those Catholics who might have past transgressions. So, can't we all do the same instead of trying to find "evidence" of wrongdoings in the past.

The sex abuse problems have been addressed. The old practices of moving priests from church to church does not happen any more. The church has grown with the times. Its basic teachings are the same as always, but it has grown. I hope we can all accept that.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 4 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

I believe with Larry that the basic teachings remain the same, but that continues to raise the question of how those basic teachings could become so distorted in practice by a supposedly tightly controlled Roman Catholic Church. Many Christians today, including some faithful Roman Catholics, believe that behavior gives evidence of the "falling away" mentioned in the Bible.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Larry we are on the same page. Jesus did die on the cross so that we could be forgiven for our sins. I do believe He was born of the virgin Mary ( I have even said He does not have DNA from the line of David, got laughed at). He was not forced to be crucified, but he allowed himself to be crucified. He rose from the dead, and that is the reason His followers came out of hiding. There is a lot I don't know, but God loves so much that we can't even understand how much He loves us. I do my best, but( lol) never, ever will be even close to perfect!


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Amen

I think you have said it all.

To Perspycacious, I can only say that people are people and will look for ways to claim a belief but not to agree with it. As a Baptsit, alcohol was forbidden. I had a few beers now and then when I was a Baptist.

All religious have for want of better terms orthodox and reform members. Some stick to a literal reading of the early teachings and some allow those teachings to grow as the world has grown.

We will not find unanimity until we get to Heaven. We just have to get there.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

I went back and read this Hub all the way through and there is one point that was not covered. The Second Vatican Council made a lot of changes in the church. Corrected some things, allowed other things, changes the way some things were taught. So when wondering about what you may someday find, remember that the Church of today, is not the church that existed 1500 or more years in the past. It has grown. It has mature. It is a servant of God.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 4 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

Isn't the objective to be the same church as 2,000 years ago?


Larry Wall 4 years ago

I would think not. The basic principals regarding the creation, birth, ministry and death of Jesus and salvation are the same. The church has expanded its ministry, allowed the formation of orders of Brothers, Priests, Nus and Sisters, developed a guide for teaching Catholicism and has learned from its past mistakes. To be the same as it was 2000 years ago would be in conflict with man's ability to learn and understand. This is my personal opinion. I do not know of any mainstream church that has not undergone change during its existence. At one time the Church was confined to the Old World. Missionaries carried the message to the New World. At one time, the Mass was said only in Latin. The homilies (sermons) were in the local language. TOday the entire mass is in the predominant language of the area. Some churches offer masses in two languages-at different times.

People grow and the church grows. WOuld you have it any other way? If a church made mistakes, as have been pointed out about the Catholic Church in this hub string, should it not learn from those mistakes and seek to avoid them in the future.

The world God created is not static. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the Church God created, though Jesus, is also not static.


MrMaranatha profile image

MrMaranatha 4 years ago from Somewhere in the third world.

The Bible is true.. its God's Word. But as for that place that sits on 7 hills and is identified in Revelations... Worships a woman and calls itself by the name Christian all the while getting drunk on the blood of Christ (literally) and the blood of his saints (figuratively) by the inquisitions through 1200 years of dark ages... Well can you imagine what the world would think if the entirety of the Inquisition records were made bare? All of the detail... Bondage and Discipline /erotic raping and then killing the victims... not to mention the killing of babies that were born to victims... none of this even goes into the wholesale slaughter of millions at the hands of nations... like Hitler who acted under the blessing of Pope Pius 7 (search the document called "Reichskonkordat" for more info on this matter... Lets face it... all of the Vatican's dirty laundry is hidden in that room... Is it any wonder they want it kept locked up???


Larry Wall 4 years ago

I am not going to debate you MrMaranatha--obviously your mind is made up and the presentation of any facts or other opinions are not going to phase you.

This Hub by Michele Thomas started out as a question as to why certain documents in the Vatican are kept secret.

The main reasons is that Vatican City is a sovereign country and just like the U.S. has secrets we really do not want to know, the Vatican have secrets--secrets from a long time ago, which frankly probably have little bearing on the issue. In the course of this Hub and other Hubs, Ms. Travis and I have become friends, who respect each other's opinions and respect the right of the other to voice those opinions.

Pope Pius VII admitted he did not do enough. He said so. Check the internet, there are numerous references. But he saved the lives of many people. Had he not had an agreement with Hitler to remain neutral, the Vatican as we know it today would had been destroyed. Its treasures looted and the secrets so many are concerned about either destroyed or altered in a manner that they would have no real validity.

Most of the Holocaust victims came from Poland. Several sources described that 3 million were Catholics and other Christians.

Those are historical facts you can look up. You can also look up the fact and read about it in the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. how the U.S. turned back a boat load of Jews where were trying to escape Hitler.

That speaks well for our integrity as a country.

The Inquisitions wee a terrible time. There is no excuse or explanation except ignorance, arrogance and stupidity.

I would apply the same adjectives to the Salem Witch Trials, the thing we called slavery in the United States and to the opposition to the Civil Rights movements and actions of groups like the KKK. History has some ugly stories. I do not know your age. Did you join the March to Washington. Are you white. Did you ever use the N word. Would you approve of a relative marrying a person of a different race or marrying a Catholic.

The Catholic Church does not Worship Mary. The church honors Mary as the Mother of Jesus and seeks favors of her in the form of requesting intercession on their behalf or on the behalf of someone else, asking her son to heal, care for, protect, etc their loved ones.

Catholics do a poor job of explaining the devotion to Mary and protestants do not make much effort to understand.

No one is getting drunk off the blood of Christ. The wine that is used in Mass is consecrated by the priest and it becomes the blood of Christ, just as Jesus Did at the last supper. Only the amount that is needed for a particular service is consecrated. There are no bottles of consecrated lying around anywhere. Until it is consecrated, it is just wine and nothing special.

Everyone has secrets in their families. Every government has secrets. Every church probably has its secrets.

The Catholic Church made mistakes in the past and will probably make mistakes in the future. The Christian response, instead of the constant badgering would be to pray for the church, asked that their sins be forgiven and let them continue their mission which has brought the word of God of so many people around the world.

The church has made great strides in dealing with pedophiles. It made a lot of mistakes, but that has changed.

If an individual makes a mistake and then take steps to do better, the Christian thing to do is to forgive.

If you think the Catholic Church has made mistakes, which I think they have, and if they are trying to do better, which I think they are, the Christian thing to do would be to forgive and move forward.

We have a person running for President who is a Mormon. At one time, a small group of Mormons believed in a man having multiple wives. That is not the teaching of that church. The Mormons do a fantastic amount of missionary work. I hope people have forgiven them for the past transgressions and praise them for the work they do.

Thank you.

Is the Catholic Church perfect--No. Has it made mistakes--Yes. Will it make other mistakes--Probably.

Should it be forgiven--yes.

Now apply those same questions to yourself and see what answers you would ad.

I am a convert to Catholicism. I knew when I converted from being a Baptist most of my life that everything in the Catholic Church was not perfect. But I also knew that it was a good church and despite its past transgressions has done a whole lot of good things in the last 2,000 years.

Have a nice day.


MrMaranatha profile image

MrMaranatha 4 years ago from Somewhere in the third world.

Like you said.. "obviously your mind is made up and the presentation of any facts or other opinions are not going to phase you."


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Well, we found a common point of agreement. So I guess we will call it a good day.

God bless you.


MrMaranatha profile image

MrMaranatha 4 years ago from Somewhere in the third world.

About "Forgivness" One Point I feel led to make... The Bible is pretty clear on this subject that Forgivness should be given freely... After true Repentence.

AFTER TRUE REPENTANCE.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Trust me Catholics all over the world have sought repentance. The members of the church are the body of the church and they have not all (and I cannot provide numbers,) but many have sought repentance. I am assuming you are not a Catholic, so you have not been to the Masses and prayer services where repentance and forgiveness is constantly requested from God. I do not know what level of repentance you are going to accept. There will never be a document signed by every Catholic repenting the crimes you have outlined--since many Catholics do not know about all the allegations (some are true and some may not be) that have been made against the church.

I do have one question for you and for others, if the Catholic Church was not so large and so easily recognizable and had been in existence for only a few decades, instead of two centuries, would you be as concern.

Finally, I want to leave you with one other statement. During the Mass, Catholics recite the Creed. In the creed is a line that says "I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church and for the forgiveness of sins." When the word catholic is written with a lowercase c it means universal or more precisely, according to www.dictionary.com--universal in extent; involving all; of interest to all.

It is a mistaken belief that Catholics believe only Catholics are going to heaven. Catholics believe that as believers in God and the Creator, Jesus as Our Savior and that "whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have ever-lasting life," then we are all as part of the universal church and are on the same page. As a priest once said in Mass we are are Christian brothers and sisters, separated, but bothers and sisters under God.

I live in Baton Rouge, LA, the home of Jimmy Swaggert, who admitted on television that he "had sinned." There have been many so-called evangelists who have preached the gospel for their own financial benefit and not for the Glory of God.

I am sorry you have such an apparent dislike for the Catholic Church because of past transgressions. I am not trying to convert you. I am just trying to explain that the body of the church is composed of good people--some may be your neighbors or co-workers. Some Church leaders have made terrible mistakes. Is that a reason to condemn the body of the church? I hope you do not feel that way. I do wish the best for you. I will honestly pray for you--not to accept my arguments, but that you have a good life. I have seen the power of prayer and my share of miracles, so I do not write these things lightly. The are presented with all the sincerity that I possess. Peace be with you.


yhamz 4 years ago

AND I WONDER ALSO, WHY THESE POPES MAINTAINING THEIR GUARDS EVERYWHERE THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY DO, EVEN THEIR ARCHIVES MAINTAINS A GUARDS? Why? IT IS SO KNOWN THAT POPE TITLE IS "VICARIVS FILII DEI" MEANS THE VICAR OF THE SON OF GOD OR IN PLACE OF CHRIST..,IF HE IS THE VICAR OF CHRIST THEN WHY HE MAINTAIN A GUARDS., CHRIST HAD NO GUARDS, HE SUBMIT HIMSELF TO HIS ACCUSER'S WITHOUT FEAR AND HE DOESN'T NEEDS GUARDS BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE IS IN THE RIGHT WAY, AND WHY THIS VATICAN DOESN'T WANT TO REVEAL THE TRUTH ABOUT THEIR SECRETS, IF THEY ARE WITH GOD THEN THEY HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY RIGHT? BECAUSE GOD KNOWS THEIR SINCIRITY, BUT, IF THE SECRETS REMAINS, I AM SORRY TO SAY, THEY ARE COVERED BY SATAN'S WINGS FOR US NOT TO SEE AND KNOW WHAT IS REAL...GOD'S WANT THE TRUTH, NOT LIES AND SECRETS...PRAISE THE LORD IN HEAVEN FOREVER AND EVER.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

yhamz:

First, please do not type in all capital letters--it is very hard to read--that is just advice from an old newspaper man.

Christ knew he was going to die and rise from the dead and he knew that was his mission. The Pope does not have that mission and the Pope is not the Son of God.

If you have read this entire Hub and all the comments you really know the answers to most of those questions.

If the doors were opened tomorrow, it would be years before anybody could translate anything and be sure they have it in the right context. God knows what is in the vault, since he knows everything and he has not sent down the bolt of lightning to unlock the doors.

The pope has guards because attempts have been made against his life. Most high profile clergyman have guards, they may not be in uniform, but they have guards.

Also, the Pope, as has already been noted is a head of state, with the Vatican being a sovereign nation.

I think you are taking some historical liberties in trying to liken the night Jesus was betrayed by Judas and taken away by soldiers to the daily life of the pope.

Finally, some of these records have been sealed for hundreds of years by the order of previous popes. So, the current Pope does not know everything that is in there.

I can assure you, the President of the United States does not know everything in the CIA or FBI files. Previous presidential orders has kept some files classified for years or decades to come.

I am a Catholic and I am not concerned. I know the church made mistakes--lots of them over the centuries. I also know the Church has done a whole lot of good. The good, I believes, outweighs the errors, mistakes and outright wrong doings. We had some bad popes in the eight through 12 centuries and maybe at other times. We have had some outstanding Popes like John XXIII, Paul VI and John Paul II.

Unlock the cap key on your keyboard, read all of this hub and take a deep breath. I do not believe one thing in that vault is going to alter the teachings of the Catholic Church or explain the mysteries of God.

Have a good day.


Trustpee 4 years ago

God Bless You Mr Larry Wall for the enlightenments and your objectivity. You are good. Thanks.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Trustpee

Thank you for your kind words. They really surprised me in a way I did not expect. I was frankly expecting another person arguing about the secrets of the church. We know God loves us and Jesus died for us. We know God promised us everlasting life if we believed in him. What more do we really need to know.

Again, thank you.


Raitu Disong profile image

Raitu Disong 4 years ago

Interesting article!

I wish i could have access to all these and revealed all their secrets.....

If they are hiding something, there must be something wrong or they are up to no good,,,anyway thanks for enlightening us!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Raitu Disong Thank you so much for your comment. There is now way we can get what is in the Vatican because they are a nation, I understand that. I still wish to know what is hidden, but I can't. Thank you very much for your comment.

God Bless you.


Raitu Disong profile image

Raitu Disong 4 years ago

The truth will come out one day for sure…..

You are most welcome!


Raitu Disong profile image

Raitu Disong 4 years ago

The truth will come out one day for sure…..

You are most welcome!


Daughter Of Maat profile image

Daughter Of Maat 4 years ago from Rural Central Florida

This was a very intriguing hub! I'd love to know what is in those secret archives, but obviously the church doesn't want ANYONE to know so it has to be something that will change th public's opinion on the church dramatically.

Awesome hub, voted up and shared!


Barbara Kay profile image

Barbara Kay 4 years ago from USA

This is interesting. It makes me wonder what it is all about. Voted up and shared.


Cyndi10 profile image

Cyndi10 4 years ago from Georgia

I agree with Larry. Given the age and delicacy of the books and writings, I don't think the precautions for someone reading them is excessive. Some are hundreds of years old making them very delicate and susceptible to abuse. The Secret Library is certainly intriguing. It would be wonderful to know what was there and why it needs to be kept secret. Well written, giving a lot of to ponder.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Daughter Of Maat Thank for sharing. But since the Vatican is a nation we will never know what is in those secrets. But, I still want to know.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Barbara Kay Thank you very much for sharing :)


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Cyndi10 Larry is very intelligent. He knows a lot about why opening the Vatican would hurt the writings. But, I am who I am, and still wonder a lot about what the Vatican and what is in there.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

If it helps, I am also interested, but do not think it is going to have anything to change my beliefs or faith. I think we may find writings of dissenters, doubters, rouge clergy, and a lot of personal letters or comments to family and friends of former church leaders as well as a lot of requests for intercessions and a lot to do with keeping Vatican City separate from the rest of Italy, even before it became official. However, I do not think it is going to be life-changing. I understand curiosity--I use to be a reporter, but some files are always kept secret. My son is adopted. Those files are sealed. I really do not want anyone else seeing them. I have not seen them. They are sealed to protect the privacy of the birth parent(s) and to protect my son from some unexpected person showing up at our door. Some records are meant to be sealed.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

There are somethings that are the most important. God loves us, and we love God. Oh, and there is coffee.


davidlaw2 profile image

davidlaw2 4 years ago

Wow this has sure got some response. I have heard that there is a secret archive. The only problem I see is I have heard people claim that they somehow found information in this archive that contradicts much of what we are taught as Christians. My question is how did they get into the archive? If there is such an archive, I doubt that anyone below a cardinal gained access to it.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 4 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

On the subject of coffee, one Pope declared that it is not good for the human body, while a later Pope said that it is fine.

Now some atheists claim to know that there is no God, while others maintain that God died. Some Christians who believe the Holy Bible would claim that the days of prophets prophesying are over, yet they believe the words of Amos who said "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." They also believe that God is unchanging, and obviously believe that God can withhold himself from communicating with men such as He did as recorded in 1 Samuel 28:6 which reads "(in the King James version) "And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets." Now, if there are no more prophets of the Lord, and Amos was correct, then God has no more secrets to reveal to men (including Popes), therefor we need not be concerned with what supposed secrets may be contained in the Roman Catholic Archives because they are not the words of God to his prophets, or else at some point (perhaps even today?) there were still prophets God spoke to?


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

davidlaw2 The Pope is the one who has the authority to allow or not allow anyone to have access to the Archives. People who claim to know what is in the Archives are probably just wrong. Even what I wrote in this hub.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Perspycacious you may be correct. It is true that I do not understand a lot of thing, or try to prove that I know more that other people. But, once again to be honest, I would still like to know, even if I am wrong.


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

Even books are fragile they could be photographed.

I believe the Church has many secrets ashamed to publish.

In the other hand heretic writings should not be publish if they do not want. It is their "personal" library.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Vlad, perhaps that it true, but they will not allow photographs. But, you are correct, it is their personal library.


anon 4 years ago

The biggest problem with the Catholic Church, is that many early sects of Christianity had beliefs, that would be labeled heretical by the current church. Possibly in the Secret Archives, there are documents or letters, which contain evidence,that would shake up the very beliefs of the Christian Faith.


sarkar 4 years ago

hey that's a good article

http://cdownloads.tk/


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

sarkar thank you for your comment.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

What is your download? for some reason, I am having trouble with it.


kevin 4 years ago

firstly, I am being deadly serious. I know the secrets of the Vatican. Sure there may be some in vaults from ancient times. When I say this you will not believe it. I expect that. I know it to be true and the reasons for it and I still. The reasons the Vatican was built was as a message to a future intelligent human race that could understand it. The secrets of the Vatican are scientific. The secrets of the Vatican are scientific. The secrets of the Vatican are scientific. It is important to humanity. I enjoy breathing so that's all I am saying.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

kevin Thank you for your comment. Since you cannot tell me what is in it, all I can do is thank you for your comment.

God bless you.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Kevin:

Michele is a nicer person than me. I think if you are going to make claims like this you need to come forth with some more details. Why did you repeat yourself several times. This Hub started six months ago and you are just now making the revelation.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

I agree with Larry, not about being a nicer person, Larry is very nice. But this hub is kind of old. I am not even sure it is a revelation. I would love to listen to what you have to tell me, but only if you buy me and Larry coffee.


Brenda Durham 4 years ago

Hi Michele. I saw this hub come up again on my hubfeed. I still like your hub!

I hadn't re-visited it for a long time. Which is why I never responded to

Larry Wall.

Larry, I see you had some really strong feelings and reactions to some of my words. Sorry I didn't see it sooner. I don't wanna argue. But indeed I stand by my words. And I think you took personal offense somehow, according to some of your responses. I can't help that. I didn't mean to offend you, but at the same time, the Truth is the Truth. And there's one thing you may not have considered-----I take the same stance against any inaccuracies of interpretation or behavior or doctrine that's exhibited in any "Protestant" Church as well. No particular denomination is immune from error. And when those errors are directly against the Bible's intent, they should be exposed and hopefully stopped from being allowed into doctrine. One of the main problems with resolving any issue like that is that the Catholic Church's setup (in general) is one that refuses to lend an ear to any admonishment or interpretations besides that of the leadership like the Popes. While Protestants (in general) don't mind calling their leaders out on the carpet when they're wrong. We know that ALL mankind is prone to error at some point. But we also know that forgiveness is available to the repentant heart, just like Jimmy Swaggart's, and that that process is one that refines us if we really do keep striving to do the right thing. We admit we are fallible. Tell me why your Catholic Church doesn't want to admit that. Then we might have foundation for discussion.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Hi Brenda I only responded to kevin because it seemed like he was just trying to tease me.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Brenda:

If you chose not to read the response I made to our comments some two months ago, I am not going to rehash all of those points again. The Catholic Church is organized differently than protestant churches. I was a Baptist, which technically was not a protestant, because Baptists do not reject or object to the Catholic Church. I had a Baptist minister taking part in my Catholic wedding. The idea that the Pope is infallible is a misunderstood concept. It is only when he "speaks from the chair" and I do not know the official name of that are his words considered to be infallible, because he has received a message from God. A lot of people have received messages from God.

If you did not bother to read the response I wrote two months ago, I see no point in going over it again.

I will just paste here my closing paragraphs from my initial response.

_________

There are people, and I think you fall into that group, that try to find differences, even perhaps try to create a wedge between Catholics and other Christian faiths. I try to find the similarities and common ground. I once heard a Catholic Priest state that all Christian believers are the children of God, separated for now, but still all children of God. Catholics do not expect to only find other Catholics in heaven. I know a few Baptists who are going to be surprised but maybe by the time they get to heaven, they will have changed their attitudes. Also, just for the record, when my wife and I was married, we had a Priest as the main celebrant, a second priest, who was a friend of my wife's family as a con-celebrant and my Baptist minister. We have been married for almost 32 years, and I expect we will always be married--our faith has seen us through many trials, and we count on that faith to lead us through the future.

I hope you accept these comments in the spirit in which they were presented--an attempt to clear up some common misunderstandings about the Catholic Church.

Is the Catholic church perfect--no. Have Popes, priests and other leaders made mistakes--absolutely and they will answer for those transgressions.

I do not know what else you expect from the Catholic Church, other than to give up its identity and accept what you say as the final word. If that was to happen, there would be no Catholic Church and trust me, that would be a great loss to the world.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

There is a website now where people are able to read some of the information in the Vatican's Secret Archive's

http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm

But, we are still waiting for it to be translated into english


Barbara Kay profile image

Barbara Kay 4 years ago from USA

You got me interested in doing some research. There are things that happened that the Catholic Church aren't so proud of. I don't think it has anything to do with the Bible being changed. I also found that in the days that the library was formed, the word secret meant personal belonging. So it might not be exciting as it seems.

It would be interesting to see if there is anything to hide though. All sorts of things are being uncovered lately.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

If you write a hub about it, I really want to read it!


Barbara Kay profile image

Barbara Kay 4 years ago from USA

Michele, I hadn't thought about writing one, you just got me interested. I'd like to see the 100 documents they are making public. Now that might be some interesting reading and open up all kinds of things to write about.


HouseBuyersUS profile image

HouseBuyersUS 4 years ago from Centreville, Virginia, USA

nice hub with lots of interesting information...


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Barbara Kay It will be exciting when they are translated into english. They are probably translated now. I just haven't looked at the right place yet.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

HouseBuyersUS Thank you, I appreciate your comment:)


DeBorrah K. Ogans profile image

DeBorrah K. Ogans 4 years ago

Michele Travis, Interesting article that poses many questions and varied responses. There is a lot of history in regards to the Church in the Vatican in Rome. Some good and some not so good. I am thankful to have been able to visit there… The comments here are quite interesting as well.

To answer your question as far as the Bible being true! YES!!! It is the infallible Word of God! According to II Timothy 2. “KEEP reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling-about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. Do your best to present yourself to GOD as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and correctly handles the WORD of TRUTH. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it become more and more ungodly…” The WORD is POWERFUL and “the TRUTH will set you FREE!”

The Bible stands on its own merits! It is not by coincidence that it remains to be the number one best seller of all time! Thank You for sharing! Peace & Blessings!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

DeBorrah isn't that wonderful? The bible is the number one best seller of all time? I believe it will stay that way, and as for the question I am asking, most people ignored it. You are the only one who noticed it! Yes the bible is true!

Thank you!


Efficient Admin profile image

Efficient Admin 4 years ago from Charlotte, NC

I read somewhere that the Vatican absolutely forbids pictures / camera use? I don't know if that is true or not, but also it may be another church over there and not the Vatican. But either way, I thought that was peculiar they didn't want photos taken. Maybe the flash of the camera harms something, like at museums you can't use a flash camera. (I am on Day 2 of refined sugar detox and I am just rambling away. sorry).


MrMaranatha profile image

MrMaranatha 4 years ago from Somewhere in the third world.

The camera thing has a couple of reasons behind it... 1 is damage to the paintings and things which deteriate with exposure to light... the other part is about Security.. they do not want photos to be so easily obtained that would be usable for nefarious plans. Lets face it.. if just one painting walked out of that place... it could be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars... or more. The Vatican is like a Bank Vault that only takes deposits... :-)

Photos are usable to identify the locations of security cameras etc when planning a heist.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Efficient Admin the flash of a camera probably harm an old piece of writing or a painting. At least I think it can. I hope you start feeling better soon, and no you aren't rambling.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

MrMaranatha

Stealing something from the Vatican would be horrible, at least I think it would be. But, photos are being used to identify locations of security cameras? Wow, no wonder they won't let people take pictures. That makes a lot of sense.


MrMaranatha profile image

MrMaranatha 4 years ago from Somewhere in the third world.

Not only where the securitiy cameras might be... but other types of security can be identified as well... Of course that is old school.. the more modern cameras are getting so small now that they can be hidden about anywhere... and since they are wireless there are no lines to look for... anyway.. just some of the other reasons for the rules.. which have not been changed in a hundred years probably...


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

MrMaranatha you are very correct about the old rules. At any rate the documents belong to the Pope. When he says "no" everything stops there. And the entire Vatican City is a Nation. So, that is about it. No one can take anything from them.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

With Michel's permission, it is her hub, I want them to tell me the secrets they they and what they think will find that will be so devastating to Christianity and the Catholic Church. Everything is a piece of paper. Everything will be subject to interpretation. Everything suggested thus far has been speculation. If my church made a mistake hundreds of years ago, then as a Catholic I have to deal with it. I just do not think you are going to find the "smoking gun" that so many are looking for.

Please do not respond until Michele gives her approval. This is her hub and I have to right to try to manipulate it in any manner. Michele and I do not agree on everything, but we have come to the conclusion that we have the right to disagree and still remain friends.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Larr You are correct you and I agree disagree, However you we do have to on coffee. The people on our coffee group is growing :) That is a good thing. The City of the Vatican is a Nation, therefore, we cannot take anything from them. We have to respect them. We cannot invade or take anything from them.

We have to respect them.

That is the truth.

That is very important.

Larry and I are very good friend

By the way since more friends are in the coffee group, we are probably going to share, we will have to find a place in the middle, or drink coffee on the exact same time on hubpages. That might be the best time Coffee is coffee. We agree on that!!!


MrMaranatha profile image

MrMaranatha 4 years ago from Somewhere in the third world.

Espresso is not really coffee.. its more like Life in a small concentrated form...


MrMaranatha profile image

MrMaranatha 4 years ago from Somewhere in the third world.

Coffee however is not = to Eternal Life.. Because sooner or later you always find the bottom of the cup. Just saying :-)


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

I still love coffee, well and and espresso is not so bad either.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Eternal life is much better, that is very true


Efficient Admin profile image

Efficient Admin 4 years ago from Charlotte, NC

MrMaranatha, that makes a lot of sense, thank you.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

DMVmimay Thank you for your comment, I wish we could find out what was in there, but we cannot. Oh well, it is what it is.


billybuc profile image

billybuc 4 years ago from Olympia, WA

Wow, look at all the comments on this hub! You certainly hit on a winning combination with this topic. Well, I was born and raised a Catholic, and I can tell you that part of the nature of the Catholic Church is secrecy.....it seems to be so deeply ingrained in the fabric of that religion that they just do it for no other reason than to be secretive.

Very interesting hub!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Well most of my hubs don't have this many comments, just a few. I am still interesting, but will probably not ever have the chance.

Thanks a lot for your comment.


LauraD093 profile image

LauraD093 4 years ago from Pittsburgh PA

As always really enjoyed this hub the accompanied photos are also awesome. This is another question that gets you thinking. I totally agree with billybuc lots of comments -your hubs provide great content along with generating interesting dialogues. I often re-visit just to check out the latest comments you have gotten.


ignugent17 profile image

ignugent17 4 years ago

Very interesting hub!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you Laura and ignugent17. We will probably never know the answer to this question.


yeshuaslion profile image

yeshuaslion 4 years ago

Well I truly believe Christ Jesus IS Real and I accept him as my Lord and savior. But the vatican, is indeed the one of the places the illuminati holds tight onto. you may not see it, but my generation (even though it appears we are LOST) is being revealed to what the world REALLY IS! Propoganda, Lies, Evil and much more. Corrupt Government of America (illuminati) is a HUGE one and we can visually see it on t.v. and hear it on the radio. its Discusting! Im so glad we have Christ Jesus!


Southernmapart 4 years ago

I sincerely hope that the Vatican has some of the Mayan codex, and that the books were not all burned and destroyed by the Spanish when they invaded Central America. No doubt that the Vatican is the keeper of many secrets.


Michael Jon profile image

Michael Jon 4 years ago from St. Louis

Interesting hub. Wasn't the Vatican involved in keeping the Bible out of the hands of common folk during the dark ages? I agree, there are many secrets where the Vatican is concerned.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

yeshuaslion Jesus Christ is real, that is one thing that the Vatican cannot hide. because Jesus has revealed Himself to us. I also am very happy and praise God, to have given us his Son, Jesus.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Southernmapart, I agree with you, but we will never find out because the Vatican is a Nation and is protected as a nation.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

That is very true. The regular people were not allowed to have a bible. However, even if they did have a bible, it was written in Latin. How many common people knew how to read Latin? Not a lot. Thank you so much for your comment.


Southernmapart 4 years ago

Yes, the Vatican is a nation. Who is in control? Think about the history. The Church sent out the Templar Knights as Crusaders to Jerusalem in the 11th century. During the same period, the Mongol Horde out of China was invading Asia Minor. The Mongols pushed all the way into Europe, but no farther than Italy. In 1240, the Mongols went home.

History does not tell us this, but it is implied that the Templar Knights were not successful in defending the Vatican and the Church must have had dealings with the Chinese invaders.

In 1307, the King of France, on behalf of the Pope, arrested and imprisoned the main leaders of the remaining Knights, basically destroying the public position of this group.

East met West back in those ages. Who do you think controls the Vatican?


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

History is written only by those who have won the war. But you already know that. Does the Pope control the Vatican? No. Are we allowed to know who controls the Vatican? No, Does the illuminati control the Vatican? I think it does.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

By the way, I am pretty sure you know who is in charge of the Illuminati


upal19 profile image

upal19 4 years ago from Dhaka

Vatican is a nation but it is based on a religious one. This is a religious nation. So, this nation is not like other nations. All those archived books are not related to the nation or state materials. Now it is the time to reveal those all. I think Those books except the state's secret ones should be scanned and should be open to all for reading. No religious matter should be hidden. People have the right to know all the religious matters.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

upal19 I do agree with you, but we are unable to see what is in the Archives. There is so much we could learn from this. I have never understood why they have put these into a vault that they are protecting so much.


movielardatadare profile image

movielardatadare 4 years ago from Texas

Very interesting hub! Voted up! I enjoy reading hubs like these. I like the Chronovisor theory. That reminds me of the gateway thing that I wrote in one of my own hubs. I really like the UFO theory. UFOs would harm us in my opinion. Isn't it odd that the pope will eventually take over the world? He has numerous followers. Very entertaining piece. There is a reason the Vatican is hiding so much information. Whenver things are hidden and done in the dark, there is a conspiracy behind it. If not, then why else would they hide it?


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Movielardatadare

I suggest to go back and read the comments. Most of your questions will be answered. By the way, will you produce a copy of your last check stub, your income tax return and your medical records for publication. It may be personal, but if you want to keep it hidden, there must be a conspiracy behind it.

Also, are you applying that same theory to the Morman Church, and to Greek Orthodox, Buddhists and so on. Probably not. Yes, I am a Catholic and I do not know what is in the vault and I do not think it is going to change my life. Finally, how is the Pope going to take over the world? You sound like the people who said the Pope was going to run the United States when John Kennedy was elected President. (He was the first Catholic president).


movielardatadare profile image

movielardatadare 4 years ago from Texas

I'm not sure, but I think that I might just write a reflection on this hub. Nice work, Michele! Guess I'll get started on that hub right away...


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you movielardatadare I can't wait to read it!!


Rusti Mccollum profile image

Rusti Mccollum 4 years ago from Lake Oswego, Oregon

It makes one wonder doesn't it. i mean to go to such lengths to keep it secret. I'd sure like to get in there. Very interesting hub.Tweeted it


Maryjesus 4 years ago

The holy grail


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Rusti Mccollum Thank you for tweeting it!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you very much for your comment, I have wondered that also.


Larry Wall 4 years ago

Michele:

This is not against you or your Hub. The comments are becoming repetitive. We had agreed that Vatican City is a sovereign state and has no obligation to reveal the "secrets" and it would take years of translations to make any sense of those secret records. I am going to do everyone a favor and no longer follow this Hub. My views are well stated. Everyone is entitled to ask questions and make statements. I just not choosing to follow them any longer. Hope you are doing well.

Larry


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Larry:

I understand that you do not want to follow this hub and please don't think it offends me, it does not. And the Vatican is a sovereign state and does not have to reveal any of it's secrets. I do understand that.

I am doing well and hope you are doing well also.

Michele


Kerry43 4 years ago

Tweet, I love this topic. I recently watched a very interesting documentary about this, although the outcome left as many unanswered questions as I had prior to watching. It's fun to speculate though:)

Kerry


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for Tweeting Kerry. I am always going to be wondering about the Vatican, well except for the Time Machine. That cannot exist. And there is no way we will ever find out what is in the Vatican. So, like you, I will be speculating.

Hey, and thanks for reading, I appreciate that. This hub is really old:)


sparkster profile image

sparkster 4 years ago from United Kingdom

Did you know that the Vatican have admitted to making 14 changes to new testament? Even though it clearly states in there that anyone that does so will be punished.

Legend has it that the Knights Templar had information in the 12th century which had been kept suppressed by the establishment in order to conceal the true origins of Jesus Christ.

Maybe I should point you to the direction of my hub entitled "The Royal Bloodline Of The Establishment"


Kerry43 4 years ago

Thanks, sparkster, I will check that out!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

sparkster That is very interesting. I will read your hub. But, is the true origins of Christ only legend?


sparkster profile image

sparkster 4 years ago from United Kingdom

I don't want to spam the comments section with an unsolicited link so I'll suggest that you also check out the hub, there's a very interesting twist at the end!

It's actually called The Royal Bloodline Of The Establishment - A Possible Hypothesis On Existence.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you for letting me know that. It sounds very interesting to me.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Oh, and please do not worry about it being spam, I am sure it is not.


TyeshaMatthews profile image

TyeshaMatthews 4 years ago from MOSS POINT, MS

Certain books of the Bible are one major issue. So many pieces of the Gospel is missing.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

TyeshaMatthews that is probably very true. But at this point there is no way we will ever find out. I don't know why they would be hidden, or if there is a reason for keeping them hidden. But, they are going to stay that way.


TyeshaMatthews profile image

TyeshaMatthews 4 years ago from MOSS POINT, MS

Did any of you know the Muslims read the Bible? They do because they believe in Jesus as well and that Some of the Bible's teachings and books are very much the same and were once apart of their holy book. All those crazy Muslims are not the same as the others and are frowned upon because they are believed to be vessels of the satan. Muslims are all about knowledge and peace. It has been said that many of the religious books were destroyed to bring a wedge between the races and religions. We should read up on other Religions based on God(Allah, Jehova). Much of the bible that is missing were Gospels that kings had authority over. King James kept many gospels out of the bible. Especially the ones from the women of that era.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

TyeshaMatthews Yes, that is very true, there are many books that are missing from the bible and are being hidden from us. As for the writings about women from that era, I cannot agree with you more then anything!


Peter Lospinuso 4 years ago

I find that there is a lot of information that is edited out of the Holy Bible and I feel that it is time the things that have been edited out should be revealed .I have read 4 different acounts that are bibles and much is not in the new revised editions .I have been doing a study on my own for a very long time,I have a lot of questions but no one to answere some of the: One big question is about the beginning when everything started and it does state that Adam had a wife before Eve her name was Lilth but my on going rteading has shown that Eve dissappears after a few passages but Lilith comes up threw out the whole Bible cna someone answerre this ,if so please disclose


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

The word Lilith is not used in the bible, except in the Old Kind James Version. In Isaiah 34:14 And haunteres of waterless regions must meet up with howling animals, and even Lilith. But, now the word Lilith had been edited out of all bibles and word "Goat Shaped Demon" or even the word "It" has been used as well.

Can you tell me of any other places that the word Lilith is used?


bettybarnesb profile image

bettybarnesb 4 years ago from Bartlett, TN

Hey Michele! Found this very interesting because I published an hub today on the Pope and his latest book. Your article is give a lot of good info. Thanks for sharing and looking forward to reading more of your work.

be blessed...


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you very much bettybarnesb, now I want to read your hub. I am very interested in what the pope wrote!


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

Lilith fixion is fiund in one Jewish cult.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Hello Vlad,

How are you?

who is Lilith Fixion is that the person who was supposed to be Adam's first wife? We know that is not true.


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

Michele, I am blessed.

I am sure story is false but not all know it.

Have a beautiful Holidays.

I have troubles communicating with E-mail I am using alternative means.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Vlad may you have a bless holiday also.


RichusFridum profile image

RichusFridum 4 years ago from Atlanta, Georgia

Well....

you really opened up a can of worms AND snakes with this one...

Interesting though and a DAMNED good question....

ALIENS ARE REAL!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Thank you RichusFridum maybe I am a little nuts, but I really want to know what they are hiding!!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Vlad,

I am sorry I wrote may you have a blessed holiday

what I meant was

God bless you


kathryn1000 profile image

kathryn1000 4 years ago from London

The documents will be very valuable..but people love to imagine silly things like Time Machines.

And who changed the ten commandments?


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 4 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Yes the time machines are silly, perhaps they have been mentioned to distract us from what is really in the Vatican. But as for the 10 commandments, I have no idea who changed them, and what the original 10 commandments were.


tipstoretireearly profile image

tipstoretireearly 3 years ago from New York

Fascinating hub! I'd love to see the Vatican's documents explaining their behavior during WWII. Perhaps they could have taken a more active role and saved thousands of lives from the Holocaust.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Wouldn't that have been amazing? Hitler was the reason my grandmother and grandfather left France and came to the United States ( on my mother's side of the family).

I am so interesting on what is hidden in the Vatican, and WHY they are hiding it.


shofarcall profile image

shofarcall 3 years ago

Phew, I am so glad Larry is not following this hub anymore as I would have been fearful of posting. It was the Vatican that changed the 10 Commandments. Thou shalt not kneel down to graven images no longer exists in their Bibles and the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday to accommodate the pagan worshippers and the whole world fell in line with it. (he deceiveth the whole world)

I know it was a long time ago but that does not change the fact that they changed God's Law because they felt/feel they have the authority too


shofarcall profile image

shofarcall 3 years ago

Check out the obelisk (pagan symbol) standing right in front of the entrance and the ceilings have many dragons when viewed up close.

Abba Father, give us the courage to say what is true, in Jesus's name.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

shofarcall Wow, I just checked out what you told me, and found a lot more pagan symbols. It looks very evil now. No one ( well just a few, like you ) will agree. So many are fooled these days.

I know they changed God's law, because they feel the pope is the most mighty of all.


shofarcall profile image

shofarcall 3 years ago

Hi again Michelle,Once you begin researching, you will find all kinds of pagan symbolism lolling about from the Pontiffs hat (I think they call it a mitre) to the huge sun symbol behind his "throne." The sad thing is that so much of this is hidden especially from the everyday worshiper. If you are really interested, I can send some info to an email address....I am not sure how we get to do that privately??? I typed this post earlier, or something similar and am not sure whether I posted it or lost it in the system somehow. Just incase I did not....let us not forget that the RCC changed the calendar as well and did away with 10 days along the way! They changed it to the Gregorian Calendar and at the same time changed the times from a new day beginning at Sunset (Gods decree) to beginning at midnight. Why does anyone change existent laws? To assert their own authority - in this case - to override God's authority?

Read your profile. Of course God loves us all. We are all His children and He does not want one of us to perish - all we have to do is make the decision to come to Him. I am sure every time one of us comes to Him, there is a great roar of joy in heaven.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

I agree with you, God feels joy when He knows we love Him also!


Sanxuary 3 years ago

There are a lot of possibilities and probably a few of each of theses. Something like 1200 changes in the Bible due to translation, mainly language and very small errors. Biblical Archaeology is in a huge dispute in reference to time and much of it was created before any archaeology was done and it was written to be easy to follow. The Political World of Constantine adopted the Bible and decided much of what was allowed in it. Countless agnostics were not allowed in, some known, some maybe not known. The conversion of the people deliberately adopted many pagan customs such as Christmas and other things to be converted into Christian traditions. Some even believe that some ancient things were included to mimic past beliefs. For example the story of Horus and the Egyptian book of the Dead has many similarities. Due to these similarities many wonder if a pre Bible or a belief existed prior to the so called Bible and if so have we corrupted Gods story before. Other of course are the long standing books on many things not exactly Biblical. The seven deadly sins, the interpretation of hell and demons and etc. In other wards the interpretation of a lot of things not exactly found in the Bible. Then there is just the doctrine of the Church its self. Some examples our the reading of the Bull a declaration of war on all churches that do not proclaim the Pope as the head of the Church. The idea of priest not marrying not to mention the sex scandals. The history of corruption is thousands of years old from saints to priest who faked stigmata. The faith itself changes from one place to another. In some places Mary is more important then Jesus.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

I understand your comment. But, do not understand the Catholic Church. Mary is not more important then Jesus.

We will never be allowed in the Vatican. I would love to be allowed into the Secret Library. I want to know the truth. But, there is much to hide, and they will keep it hidden. But, they cannot hide God's love for us, and our love for God. One of the things I pray for, is for God to let me feel my love for Him. I will never know as much as I need to know. So, I pray for others, for God to lead me on the path He wants me to follow, protection from sins, forgiveness from sin, I pray for others. I do my best, even though it is not enough.

But thanking God for Jesus is very important, at least for me, it is.


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 3 years ago from HubPages, FB

Devil is defeated and Jesus is Lord. Jesus won and we received freedom - result. Michele, I wish you and all friends joyful love time in this winter. No one should celebrate Jesus birthday unless has heart full of love.


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Jesus is more powerful. God has already won.

I wish you joy and happiness.

And my heart is full of love.

God bless you!


Meg 3 years ago

Lady are you a dis informer? One minute you say the Vatican has a right to keep the documents hidden, next minute you say we have a right to know, get yourself educated you come across as a very foolish person!


Michele Travis profile image

Michele Travis 3 years ago from U.S.A. Ohio Author

Meg, you need to read more carefully. The Vatican has the legal right to keep the documents hidden. I WISH we had the rights to read the documents. There is a difference between the two.


MarleneB profile image

MarleneB 3 years ago from Northern California, USA

This is quite interesting. I wonder what the purpose is of putting documents on display for a short duration. Plus, people can't touch the documents; they can only view the documents through a thick piece of glass. How does that please the public? Oh well... when I hear stories about how people steal the Baby Jesus from Christmas ensembles, I can understand why a person would need to be accompanied while in the research library. I enjoyed your hub. Looking forward to reading more.


franke 3 years ago

i have a story and documeants of a mans hole life that will send anybody thinking my i tell my story ?


Abiyah 3 years ago

Where should I start. Lament 4:8, 5:10 Clearly the secret is the Holy People and the real Jews are Black. Not my opinion but SCRIPTURES! They have stolen the identity of God chosen people you read about in every HOLY BIBLE. Deut 7:6-11 This part of the bible is speaking to a particular people. See these people are a chosen people above all people on earth so the false doctrin of everyone is the same is a LIE! To clear up another LIE that these Chosen people are lone gone Go to the New Testament since the LIE about the OLD is done away with and read Romans11:1-2 Clears up the LIE about these Chosen Ones being in exile. Now in Deut the God of the HOLY BIBLE clearly stated what would happen to his Chosen PEOPLE. IF YOUR SO CALL HISTORY IS TIED TO THIS...THEN YOU MUCH BE OF THE CHOSEN. Deut 28:68 The Chosen will go into slavery by ships. Deut 28:48 These people would have an IRON YOLK upon their necks. Deut 28:32 Women should give birth and the oppressor would take them Deut 28:41 You would not enjoy your children bcos they also would become slaves. I can go on and on and on...With this in mind Those who call themselves JEWS are not REV 2:9 These people Today dressed in black praying towards a wall are not the TRUE JEWS according to Scripture not my opinion. Unless you can prove to me that they went into slavery by ships and iron yolk upon their necks and their children were sold as slaves then scripture must be speaking of them. But they will worship the Chosen Rev 3:9. For all is Written. The Word of God says, Prove all things. The chosen are not European. Did you know the photo of Mary and son is of a black woman in the Vatican????? Even the picture of the HOLY Apostles. Christ is black. REV 1:14-15 Hair like wool????Sounds nappy to me. Skin as if it were brunt brass in fire????Sound like a colored man to me...But they painted what kind of pic and called it "JESUS". Mockery....Seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given knock and the door shall be opened..All praises to the Most High God of Abraham, Issac and Israel.


Pat 3 years ago

Upon reading Socrates and Aristotle from public libraries, and finding in the afterward that to establish Rome, Greek texts, and manuscripts were removed and hidden from the public for 200 years to remove that knowledge from the public and its progeny, to create The reinvention of religion under Roman rule, Catholicism, it is presumed, the Vatican has done a great disservice to mankind in keeping their own human history secret, presumably locked carefully in the Vatican, and unexamined these many 2000 years. How can that not be a disservice to humanity?

The Vatican and Rome should be forced to open their secret archives as unauthorized to possess what should be, and rightfully are, public human history.


Law 2 years ago

If I told you that I'm your bridge to Christ, I'd expect you to question me for proof. If I can't stand up to scrutiny in the light of day, I can't expect to be taken seriously.

Larry, you do a good job of being a "Wall", barricading those in search of truth from their thirst.

The Vatican knows what will become of it when the true followers and servants of Christ come. The Vatican also has a good idea who these servants are and what they look like. The Vatican has spent the past centuries "painting a different picture" of true servants. It has spent centuries portraying what it shouldn't have been portraying, with the hope that by the time the true servants come, people would be so confused. It's the perfect con. And I say this as a Catholic.

Michele, thanks for being thirsty :)


Buildreps profile image

Buildreps 2 years ago from Europe

Interesting article, Michele, I stumbled on your article after Googling on 'hidden secrets of the Vatican'. I don't understand the part: "and it has been estimated it could hold about 70 thousand pages, and 1 million books". It doesn't seem logical to me, for every book would contain 0.07 pages :)

The Vatican was trying to hide the true Bible that is now publicly available, partly found in the Nag Hammadi Codex (Gnostic Bible). They're hiding no UFO's nor time machines:) Just crucial information about the truth of Jesus, God and creation. It was all to keep Humans ignorant of their own Divinity. The unconsciousness of Humanity from their 2000 year lasting dream has finally come to an end.


Spacephonik 21 months ago

One person mentioned how the artifacts and scriptures in the secret vault can be show cased to the people. But that's happening, no one has to touch them, no one has to steal them. If you do your research you will find out that the pope is part of an elite group that controls the world. The world bank and so on an so forth. People especially Africans do not know of their ancient history. Everything in Africa dates back to 6000 years ago, same time as the bible but history proves African existence more than a 100 00o years ago. What is really hidden in those vaults is all the history of Africans, artifacts, ancient technological information that they do not want people to know because it can cause problems for people of high status. People who introduced money to the world.

If the Romans are really people of God would they not want to spread the knowledge? I never read a verse in the bible that says Jesus kept his ancient artifacts and scriptures hidden think about it. If Jesus did not possess such power why does the pope possess it?


Dave ritete 13 months ago

I was wandering when they found. That scroll on stigmata and deciferd it if they read anything from it now in the bible it says the curse will b lifted and in it will b when they said that saying under the stone or something that was not in that scroll they found was it spirt of truth


Dave ritete 13 months ago

About the bible i was haveing a read of the new testament the bits where jesus talks about the future very interesting abomination disgust and hatedred i do not blame jesus coming back with his angles look at what is happening in the world right now when u die u are going to find god and a r real


Dave ritete 13 months ago

There is a book in one of those vaults they do not want to give it to the whrong person its because something tragic might happen to that person like the priest when he went blind and lost his memory but what i no is that he dicifered the rest of that scroll this has got to do with that stigmata movie

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