What if You Get to the End of Your Life and Find Out You Were Wrong?

It's not a comforting thought that your life might have been off track. How could anyone know for sure?

Storm--ever a symbol of death and doom.
Storm--ever a symbol of death and doom. | Source

Non-Believer

The non-believer finds upon death that they are leaving their body behind.

"But wait! If I'm leaving my body, then I'm not my body. So, what am I?"

And like a lucid dream that never ends, as in the movie Waking Life (2001), you imagine all manner of things, perhaps even a living nightmare.

Without the physical anchor of their body, the non-believer is lost in an uncontrolled storm of thought and creation. How much control does anyone have over their dreams? A few can manipulate their lucid dreams, but if the dream ever gets away from you, terrifying madness may envelope you. And no one on Earth will know of your torment.

Believer

Depending upon what they have believed during their life, they may be rudely surprised that things may not be as they originally thought.

What if a believer discovers that, though they thought they were following Christ, they had been attached to earthly things and had been following them, instead?

So many Christians believe in their own future, bodily resurrection. Will it happen? Personally, I don't know. Some tell me that I am confusing "reincarnation" with "resurrection." Personally, I don't think so. I see reincarnation and resurrection as two completely distinct and separate events. And personally, I see resurrection as a spiritual event, not a physical, Homo sapiens event. Just as Adam and Eve suffered a spiritual death in the Garden and just as Genesis 6:3 says that man is "also" flesh, man is something else, too—spiritual.

Could it be that the part of man that was created in the "image of God" is their spiritual half? I've had believers and non-believers confuse this issue. At least it seems to me that they are confused.

If Genesis 1:26 is true, then why doesn't it refer to the spiritual part of man? Why would one atheist say that these imperfect bodies show that God is imperfect, too? Perhaps it has nothing to do with these Homo sapiens bodies.

Does the dogma or interpretation of a bodily resurrection for us indicate an attachment—even a lusting for—the flesh? What would you do without your body? If you are inherently spirit, of what good is the body? Jesus told his enemies that in heaven they would not have their wives as they did on Earth, but would be as angels.

What's the purpose of the human body? Is it only a temple to aid in the quiet reflection of their own spiritual reawakening? And if such awakening occurs, is the body needed afterward?

Reincarnation

I have remembered many of my past lives, some far more vividly than I remember most of this one.

Delusion? I could be wrong. I have been wrong about many things.

And yet, when I hold certain beliefs inviolate—miracles happen. When I have doubts, they don't. Again delusion? If my entire life is a delusion, perhaps. Somehow I don't think it is, so what I witnessed is likely what I witnessed.

First atomic bomb used in warfare. Nagasaki, Japan, August 9, 1945.
First atomic bomb used in warfare. Nagasaki, Japan, August 9, 1945. | Source

Stubbornness

Believers and non-believers hold one trait in common a large percentage of the time. Finding humility amongst them is difficult. Heck, finding humility in myself is sometimes difficult.

Stubbornly holding onto an idea as "TRUTH" can backfire!

There can be truth in most any statement, but such an idea can also possess lies. How do we know for certain?

Do I believe in reincarnation? For now, yes. I'm attempting not to be stubborn about it. I have enough evidence to convince me that reincarnation is real. None of the arguments of others are sufficiently logical to dislodge me from that belief. And yet, I am willing to be dislodged.

Ultimately, my aim is one of finding "TRUTH."

I want to know more about my spiritual self. I want to know how to recognize more accurately my master's voice.

Delusion and Self-Deception

Being aware that one can be deluded is not a bad thing. Being humble in the search for "TRUTH" is always good. But regrettably, some people have stopped looking. They now already know their own version of "truth," and nothing anyone says can dislodge them.

When they get to the end of their lives, will they find themselves on a lonely island of thought, caught in an unending nightmare, because they didn't take the time to learn more about their own spiritual nature? That possibility saddens me. Will I find out something similar? That possibility frightens me—enough to do something about it.

But what is the right thing? As a scientist, one refrains from holding onto any one idea too tightly. That's not "skepticism," but instead "restraint" and "humility."

Solution

We can all practice restraint and humility. We can practice a hunger for knowledge, because in this mortal realm we will never know it all. Appreciate the input of others, especially when it is something new and strange—or something familiar with a slightly different twist. Give value to the views of others, even if we disagree. Sometimes we may find that their idea sits long enough in our own mind to take root and show itself to be valuable. The first glance is not always the most revealing.

Sometimes "TRUTH" remains hidden by our own preconceived notions. Humility allows us to let go of these notions long enough to let such superior knowledge reveal itself.

Rays of sunshine in the midst of a storm--ever a symbol of salvation.
Rays of sunshine in the midst of a storm--ever a symbol of salvation. | Source

Example

I grew up shy, painfully so. I lacked self-confidence. I also had a fear of heights after several damaging falls during infancy, one requiring stitches.

As I grew up, I learned to let go of my fears and the anger generated by them.

Then I discovered the true meaning of "faith." To the glory of the Heavenly Father, miracles happened. I discovered that all prayers are answered instantaneously and in the affirmative. Always! Too many people feel they are praying, but are deluded by what they think they are asking. It's a bit like a girl going to the Ob-Gyne and being told repeatedly that she is not pregnant. All trajectories short of perfect and humble confidence will fall back to earth as if never answered. But they are answered, because the prayer contained a spot of doubt. They received back more doubt. They were merely blind to that for which they had asked.

So, be pregnant with the spirit—be humble about what is and isn't "TRUTH," and have perfect confidence in only a few key things:

  • God is infinitely powerful
  • Both the Father and the Son love you
  • And both want you back

Anything beyond this can become tainted with earthly interpretation. Is your interpretation true? That's possible. Is someone else's interpretation true? That's also possible.

One More Interpretation But Lots of Exciting Discoveries

The Bible's Hidden Wisdom: God's Reason for Noah's Flood (Volume 1)
The Bible's Hidden Wisdom: God's Reason for Noah's Flood (Volume 1)

This book is from years of my own research into a biblical timeline compatible with those of mainstream science. I wasn't surprised that God's holy book would match his own creation (reality), but there were many surprises, including discovering through science the target of Noah's Flood -- a species which went extinct at that time.

 

Purpose

The tragedy I seek to avoid and to help others avoid is in clinging to the wrong thing when the end is at hand. I do not want to be clinging to my own ideas when I should be asking the Father for Truth. I don't want to be clinging to the notion of a bodily resurrection when there may be no bodies where we are going. It is entirely up to the Father what that destination looks like.

I don't want to cling to any resentment, either. In the final judgment I might see the head of a pharmaceutical company, guilty of the slow murder of millions from chemical poisoning and the suppression of cures made illegal by congressional lobbying, all for gargantuan greed and lust for power. They may go to heaven because at the last minute they saw the error or their ways and were washed clean of all sins. And me in my struggle to be anonymously good, fail to enter paradise because of a spot of resentment. Agonizing irony, that. So, I do my daily laundry to wash out all such dark spots. And I stay alert to where those spots originate.

The only way to know for certain is to get the scoop directly from the Heavenly Father, Himself. And, for that, you need to hone your skills at listening for His voice, constantly questioning your own "interpretation" as fallible.

More by this Author


Comments 65 comments

WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

Brother,

Reincarnation isn't the truth.

Since before we entered our mother's womb, God has already planned each one of our lives delicately, with individual uniqueness.

At the end of our flesh life, if hell is our fate then we shall go there immediately.

But if Heaven is then we shall go there.

In Heaven, we have another body awaiting us.

And then, life continues there, it doesn't end.

But it certainly doesn't continue here.

Some believe to see both ghosts and demons - but demonic spirits are shape-shifters and can appear to be as ghosts, and one cannot tell them apart, because they have examined that dead person and observed their personality to act as them as well.

It's also believed that there are souls trapped in the ocean, and that when Jesus' second coming takes place, those souls will be freed.

It takes one person in a family for a whole family to be saved by Christ.

If a family member of one who is saved has passed away, they might be scared to find the way to heaven, or not know of it, but haven't gone to hell for the reason of salvation.

Spirits can influence us and give us insight(ideas), they have possessed numerous physical human beings in their "lifetime", which has been before man was created.

If Satan tried to tempt Jesus with visuals, he'll certainly do it to us.

God's children are the most attacked by evil spirits.


peperuhi profile image

peperuhi 5 years ago from Istanbul

No one knows...


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

Actually peperuhi, many people know.


UnnamedHarald profile image

UnnamedHarald 5 years ago from Cedar Rapids, Iowa

And where does God's "free will" fit in with each carefully programmed embryo?


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

We're not programmed, our free will stands.

That's how we choose our fate, and what we don't know will bite us later.


susannah42 profile image

susannah42 5 years ago from Florida

We live on, in some form,that's what I believe


mariale2003 profile image

mariale2003 5 years ago

What we really know for sure we are here and now trying to found answers outside everywhere and real answers are inside us....the true is whatever we want to believe, so I choose love...the love for yourself will project a new world around you...we to to find love in our self and connect with the energy of god. That is our nature like humans, that is our call.


A Life Underwater profile image

A Life Underwater 5 years ago from Coconut Creek, Florida, USA

I drowned once and was clinically dead before being eventually resuscitated. I saw the peace on the otherside and know unequivically that our journey here on earth is to love, to learn patience and tolerance and to leave a "footprint" in the sand for others to benefit from when we do pass over. My next chapter shares that wonderful gift I received. Thank you for your thought provoking writing!


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Well, @WalkWithJesus, I appreciate your comments and your viewpoint.

Let me ask you: Is your "interpretation" equal to that of God?

I have to admit that mine isn't, but I have remembered many lives. I have also found in scripture a great deal of evidence of reincarnation. Does that make my interpretation better than yours? I don't know.

Have you ever been outside of your physical body? I have. It didn't take drugs or physical trauma, either, to allow it to happen. I felt the blessings of the Lord for allowing me to see this and to know that this physical shell (Homo sapiens body) is not me.

Bodies in heaven? I don't know, but I suspect they won't be Homo sapiens and possibly nothing physical. Nothing physical would fit into the realm of creation, because it has no space or time there. That's my best estimation from the few miracles I've witnessed and studied.

One person in a family to save the entire family? I had never heard that, and I caution anyone to reconsider such an idea, lest some be lost because of the laziness to think that one person can "buy" someone else's salvation.

And what is Satan? In Hebrew "satan" merely means one who stands in the way, like the angel of the Lord who stood in front of Balaam and his donkey. But who is the "demon" who tempts us humans? Could it reside within each of us as "ego?"

Could this "alternate self" be the "self" which needs to die before we can gain everlasting life?

Could you be displaying ego by your certainty that your interpretation is better than mine? If so, I hope for your sake that you cease to follow the "master of this world" before it's too late.

Don't seek answers from me or any other earthly interpreter. Seek them from the source in utter humility. Give up all you think you know and allow God to tell you.

That's my recommendation. What do you think?

And you said, "what we don't know will bite us later." I couldn't have put it better. But that also applies to you and me.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Hello, @UnnamedHarald. Certainly, our DNA and physicality are programmed. But that's only the physical reality side of things. As a programmer for the last 36 years, I understand this aspect.

But there is an unprogrammed aspect to each of us. This is our spiritual half.

Genesis 1:26 talks of this spiritual half -- created in the image of God. Genesis 2:7 talks of the physical half, created from the dust of the ground.

Our salvation depends upon us cutting the bonds with physicality and "reasonableness" to regain our spiritual footing.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@susannah42, thanks for your comment.

Certainly there is continued existence, but continuity of consciousness is broken unless we achieve "everlasting life." We need to rise above our dependence on physicality.

Even the Jews, after they had been saved from bondage in Egypt, continually fell back to a dependence on physicality -- idol worship, the need to have an earthly king to rule over them. Such attachments distract from their own spiritual nature.

You need to be able to let go of such things in order to walk outside your body at will and to walk on water when the need arises.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@mariale2003, thank you for your input.

I happen to agree that there are answers within us, but disagree that whatever we want to believe is true. Certainly reality comes from what we believe, but reality is not truth.

There are many ways to "love self." Some are righteous and true, while others are deadly. Love of ego can destroy you. Love of your spiritual half can help free you.

Having achieved a measure of spiritual freedom in these short 61 years, I appreciate what can be done and what yet needs to be done. Even a few centuries seems too short a span of time. That's why we need help.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@peperuhi, thanks for stopping by and for your short, if not cryptic response.

If by "no one knows" you mean that no one on Earth knows everything, then I would have to agree.

If by "no one knows" you mean that no one knows anything about the topic of this article, then I would have to strongly disagree. Some things are known. Some things remain unknown. We know something about spiritual growth. We know it's possible, but incredibly difficult. Too many cling to their own ideas of what is right or correct interpretation. This could prove to be a major stumbling block -- think that one knows something that is merely fallible belief. We know that this is a problem and not an easy one to solve.

If anything, your cryptic response has been stimulating.

Thanks!


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@A Life Underwater, thank you for your delightful comment.

Love is where it's at, certainly. But defining love seems difficult for some people. Too many view it through the eyes of ego (selfishness).

It seems to me that patience and tolerance are good qualities to include, along with generosity, wisdom, compassion and humility.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

lone77star, I do not go by my own interpretation, as cool as reincarnation sounds, I thought that was reality too.

We are tricked into thinking a lot of things are reality.

There is only one reality, and with the grasp of that reality in mind, one has a firm grip on their purposes in life.

2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….”

In 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

No, not physical bodies in heaven.

Something I don't know, but must be spiritual, or something far from our understanding.

Many have left their bodies yes I know of this and I know of the spiritual realm well, the fact is that our flesh's mind is easily vulnerable, by spiritual influence or influence of our soul.

We also have a spirit.

It is not a "demon." Demons just means the devil's agents (angels that followed him and got cast to earth) that work for the Devil(Satan; God's enemy) since he cannot be omniscient like God is.

So, in return he'd like to get as much done as he may with the promised time God has given him, but he knows it is very short.

I know what I'm talking about.

I wished things weren't this way and that I had to say it, but through humility it has been revealed to me, through experiences, research, study, prayer.

I am only allowing others to know, but many will reject it.

When they find out it will be too late.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

God reminds us to not create our own righteousness.

It will hurt us.

We have the total free will to do anything that God warns us not to do, but the consequences = inevitable.

There is only one right and wrong, and that's what He says, recommends, and guides us by.

If you have a question in life, ask Him through prayer.

He wants you to treat him as if he's right next to you because he is and can hear, that is what believing in Him is and being aware of his existence means, and not viewing it from a "religious" view, and giving other religions space - but to cancel them all out and know that God is the only living God. The first commandment warns us not to worship false gods (all gods other than Him) or statues that cannot speak nor hear.

Some will say that well Christians worship the cross, no we don't, we use it as a symbol of Jesus' sacrifice that he allows us to be forgiven for all our sins immediately, not having to sacrifice anything but the act of repenting.

In the Bible, God speaks about men who were given talents and shared their talents with other men, multiplying their talents each time.

Then there was a man who didn't share his talent nor gained any.

I'm simply lending you my "talent" of knowledge that far exceeds yours because I've put my heart into learning about God with determination and asked Him for guidance.

Will you be the man who receives the talent or rejects it? Will you stand in front of God empty-handed of talent(knowledge)? After all, it takes knowledge to perform a talent.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

But, know that since He does not owe it to us to reveal Himself, as the test of faith will be too simple for us, and unfair to past generations who held out blasphemy and made it to heaven.

He will reveal Himself if you put your trust first.

Trust first, God comes after.

Not we see God first, and then trust in Him after - some blessed lives have it this way, but those are special cases to God such as atheists.

Remember, that we can be sure that the Words in the Bible are God's, and that we can put our full trust in it, if we question certain things in life.

I can tell you that from experiences most of life's answers are found in there, even the ones you think you'd never find, such as bonds, etc.

Think of it as a car manual but for us.

Many choose not to use the manual and don't learn how to fix their cars nor maintain it, it wears and tears and eventually turns into a priceless rust bucket.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

God also speaks of the "five kings" in Joshua 10.

These five kings actually means our five senses, and that our senses can and definitely will deceive us time after time, but we can have a grip on knowing what is real - through learning about Him and His Word.

They killed the five kings, stomp on them and stand on top of them, be victorious of your life and spirit by knowing the truth.

The truth will set you free.


allpurposeguru profile image

allpurposeguru 5 years ago from North Carolina

Regarding reincarnation, I agree with WalkWithJesus that it isn't scriptural. I suspect that beliefs about reincarnation are among many things that, when we get to the end of our lives, we can find out we were wrong and it won't matter a bit.

What does matter--the only thing that matters--is the attitude of each individual heart toward Jesus. And that's heart, not anything else. In the heart, one believes and is justified before God--or not, as the case may be.

One person may say all the "right" things, do all the "right" things, etc. and not believe them in his heart. I put "right" in quotation marks just to keep exactly what that is abstract for the purposes of this comment. I can agree with whatever it is, talk in line with whatever it is, take some actions according to whatever it is, and not really believe it. For example, I can go to church faithfully every week, put money in the collection plate, etc. and never believe that I had any sins that Jesus had to die for. If acknowledging my own sin is part of what "right" means, I will have been wrong all my life.

Does that mean all is lost by that time? Maybe. Maybe not. That would depend on the totality of what's in my heart. And so, as you say, some people might commit what seem like gross sin on the surface of their lives and get to heaven ahead of people who were very good people on the surface of their lives. And no one under the sun is qualified to know who's who.

The best way for me to be sure that at the end of my life I have been right where it really counts is to spend my life more concerned about whether I'm right than whether someone else is. And I guess that's why I'm not as upset with what I consider your error about reincarnation than I would have been maybe 20 years ago.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@WalkWithJesus, thank you, my brother.

Now you say that you do not go by your own interpretation. That's good. I would like to believe you, but find it hard with some of the things you've said. And that's been my point.

What you say can help me look where I may not have looked, but I will still take it up with God and hope I hear His voice more perfectly.

I would like to direct you and everyone else to someone who really feels (at least to me) as though the spirit truly has touched him. I remain even more inspired today than the first time I read his hub.

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy/What-Im-Le...

You say all that you do with such conviction. Confidence is good, but truth is far better.

You say that there is only one reality. I disagree. Each of us has our own reality, but there is only one truth. And that's the problem I'm trying to reveal here.

I feel as though I have been moved by the Holy Spirit. Not always. Sometimes I falter. But I question those who say that they have the "true" meaning of scripture.

I have found things in scripture, by the grace of God, that no one else has seen, until now. But I still have much to learn.

I hope you can continue to learn, also.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@allpurposeguru, thank you, brother. I appreciate your input and your wisdom.

You say that you agree with @WalkWithJesus, that reincarnation is not scriptural. You say that with the conviction that it is truth. But I say that it is indeed scriptural, but that mortal interpretation has slandered scripture.

Perhaps you are right that such a detail may not matter in the big scheme of things, but what does truth matter? Does knowing more of truth help strengthen our ties to God? Our Lord and Master said that the truth would set us free.

You said, "your [my] error about reincarnation." Let us look at that.

I say that reincarnation is scriptural.

Matthew 17:12–13

John 9:1–2

Matthew 26:52

Numbers 14:18

Malachi 1:3

And so is karma -- Matthew 26:52, Numbers 14:18.

These all point to reincarnation.

Genesis 1:26, 2:7 and 6:3, speak of the dual nature of man. The sin of Adam and Eve is ours. The downfall was ours. Their (our) death was a spiritual death just as our resurrection is a spiritual rebirth.

Would not God give us every possible opportunity to come back to Him? Would he only allow us one life in those millions of years since the Garden? Yes, millions.

That took me by surprise when I first found it.

There is a timeline in Genesis compatible with those of science. That anthropology says man has been around for at least 200,000 years would mean, if true, that for Genesis to point to a real (true) date for Adam's (humanity's) birth, that it would have to be at least 200,000 years ago.

The date is 10,434,130 BC. Incredible. And with this timeline is revealed the "Tree of Life" matrix embedded in two chapters of Genesis, plus an understanding of the seemingly outrageous longevity of the early patriarchs now compatible with the findings of science.

And this raises the question posed by this article: If such truth can have remained hidden for so long, what other truths are there to be discovered?

What truths have been blocked by dogma and an attitude that truth has already been found. I offer that it hasn't. I offer that it remains in the Bible and with the Lord, but that we need to stay hungry and humble before that truth can enter us.


EmmyJo 5 years ago

@lone77star... there are very many different teachings when it comes to religion, and trying to "marry" some of those teachings is like trying to mix oil and water. Having the freewill to choose any one or many of those teachings is such a precious gift that God gave mankind. Almost all of the world's religions have some kind of writings or teachings that they adhere to. Christians have the Bible but the problem comes when some try to interpret the Bible in their own way when it clearly states that no prophecy stems from private interpretation but from God (2Peter 1:20,21).

In the Bible, death is the opposite of life and when people die, they cease to live. They are no longer conscious of anything, even all their feelings perish(Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10; Psalms 146:3,4). When the "breath of life" that God blew into man's nostrils after forming him from dust (Genesis 2:7), goes out at death, man returns to dust, he ceases to exist, and the only way of reversing that state is by means of a resurrection (John 5:28,29).

On the other hand, Hinduism and Buddhism teach reincarnation or "wheel of life," whereby upon death, one's next cycle of life is determined by their previous life and it's known as karma. Believing in both resurrection and reincarnation is like mixing oil and water because the two hold very different concepts.

Humility, is letting God's word teach us rather than lean upon our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5,6) because such haughtiness is what causes "stubbornness" in us as we begin to think more of ourselves than we should. My point is that if we are humble, we will not fight or argue about "my interpretation," or "your interpretation" because we will allow God's word to lead us instead. Remember under inspiration Daniel wrote in chapter 12:9,10 about the things he himself did not understand but God told him to seal the book until the time of the end, when some would understand those things while others would not.

The Bible is very clear about who Satan and his demons are and how they came to be, including how they operate to mislead many (Revelation 12:7-9). Your article raises a lot of questions whose answers are found in the Bible, but it's only by cultivating a humble heart that anyone can allow God's word to be the guide rather than self.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

LONE77STAR,

We see in Malachi 4:5 this prophecy, "Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord." Jesus is referring to the prophecy concerning Elijah. We see that the coming of Elijah was in the spirit of Elijah, which is so stated in Luke 1:13-17. The context is when Zecharias, John's father-to-be, was performing his priestly duties in the temple (Luke 1:8ff). An angel of the Lord appeared to Zacharias and said,

"Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your petition has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will give him the name John. 14"And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth. 15"For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother’s womb. 16"And he will turn back many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God. 17"And it is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers back to the children, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous; so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord," (Luke 1:13-17).

So, we see that John the Baptist was in the spirit of Elijah, but not actually Elijah reincarnated.

In John 1:19-21 John even replies to

Are thou Elijah? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

-------

John 9:1-12 is not reincarnation.

They asked him why he was blind because when someone has an illness, or deaf or blinded - it is usually a curse caused by a family member.

Meaning, past generation sins that your ancestors had partaken in can very well affect you, that's why it's important to pray about that and ask for forgiveness of your ancestors as well.

Curses can be passed from generation on to the next.

-----

Matthew 26:52

Jesus simply states that whoever plans to kill with a sword shall die by the sword.

..And that they shouldn't interfere with the fulfilling of the Scriptures that God wrote.

Which was that Jesus be captured and killed; and his participation means he sacrificed himself.

-----

In Numbers 14:18

This verse relates to John 9:1-2.

It simply defines what I was saying about curses caused by past generations sinning/sinners (aka transgressors; iniquity) and has no reference of relevance to reincarnation.

-----

In Malachi 1:3

Is another perfect example of God's curses upon descendents of Esau.

The prophet Malachi and the apostle Paul were using Esau in reference to Edomites, who were the descendents of Esau.

It was done all in favor of God's choice. He doesn't have to follow rules, so throughout the Bible he chooses men over other men, and reject the others.

In this story, he rejects Esau's descendents because of their past generation who sinned.

-----

Karma, no - although this law does apply, but is not literally karma, karma was originated from Buddhism.

Buddhism is blasphemy of the God that you and I know in the Holy Bible for many reasons.

To defend it is as well, although you may not know it, you are blindly sinning when you do so.

A perfect example of the men who killed Jesus, and he asked God to "Forgive them, for the know NOT what they do"

You literally don't know you are wrong, but you will find out, unless you let pride get the best of you.

There are promised blessings and promised curses throughout the Bible that God states.

God is a man of his word and will not break his promises.

If you commit something serious enough to convert into a curse upon you, it will.

And if you do something good in His eyes whether you know it or not, you shall receive a blessing for it, if he said that you will.

The Devil likes to keep our Bibles closed so that we don't find out about God's promised blessings, he would much rather take them away from us from doing this, and making way for us to earn curses instead.

Reincarnation, no.

When you look deeper and learn with an open heart, you'll see what many of us have learned.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

The way society and the world is today has a twisted viewpoint on what the truth is - making it "hard to believe."

You must detach yourself from being "of" the world for once. Modern society is twisted; very approved by the Devil; disproved by God

Remember - God gave the world to the Devil and most thins in our world and environment today are very, very corrupt.

You will learn many things you wish you hadn't, but will in turn make most things easier.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

And, FYI, I've had many spiritual experiences with God.

By you inaccurately assuming that I don't without knowing me tells me a lot about your judgement - that you get it out of thin air.

Maybe you'll hear about them later.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

If you've any questions on what curses and spells are feel free to ask; any spiritual question is strongly encouraged for anybody.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Hi, @EmmyJo. Thanks for your input and wisdom.

First of all, I'm not "marrying" other teachings to those of the Bible. That's your "interpretation."

"No prophecy stems..." but we're not talking about prophecy. I understand the passage, but it doesn't apply here.

Death is the opposite of life? Interesting. Thanks for letting me know.

@EmmyJo, you are interpreting! And you are telling me what to think about scripture, based on what? Your experience? What you've learned from others? The dogma handed through the last 1500 years? And why was Origen held in high esteem only to be outcast 200+ years later by the ecumenical council of Constantinople?

You say that with death we cease to live, but you're implying that this says something against reincarnation? It doesn't.

I don't know much about Hinduism, but I have studied Buddhism. Just because karma and reincarnation are in Buddhism and Hinduism doesn't mean it cannot be in Judaism and Christianity. I have found it there.

Believing in both resurrection and reincarnation is NOT like mixing oil and water. And YES, the two hold very different concepts, but not incompatible concepts. You are clouding the issue with your interpretation and the interpretation of others.

I agree wholeheartedly that leaning on our own understanding is not good. It can lead to stubbornness. I have even felt this in myself. Do you feel it right now?

But aren't you being stubborn with your viewpoint? That's my point.

@EmmyJo, I agree more than you realize, about humility and answers being opened unto each of us.

Why does it say that Adam is both male and female (Gen.5:2)?

What is the meaning of the outrageous longevity of the early patriarchs?

Why did God give such incredible protection to a liar and murderer (Cain)?

What is the timeline in Genesis that is compatible with and superior to those of science?

What is the true identity of the daughters of men in Genesis 6?

What is the meaning of Genesis 6:3 when it says that "man also is flesh?" And how does this relate to Genesis 1:26 and 2:7?

Why didn't Adam and Eve literally, physically die on the day they ate the forbidden fruit?

What was the specific crime man committed to warrant the Great Flood?

What was the date of the Flood?

Where is the Kabbalah's "Tree of Life" matrix to be found in Genesis?

My humility has allowed me to find these things through the grace of God. And there is so much more to do, but I need help from those who are "truly" humble.

Can you be such a person? I hope so.

More importantly, can you truly recognize when someone loves God more than their self? Enough to walk on water?


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@WWJ, thank you for continuing the dialog.

You are interpreting scripture. I have been interpreting it, too.

And yet you treat the discussion as if you are coming from a superior viewpoint -- perhaps even equal to that of God in your understanding of scripture. Is that what you really want to do?

I'm attempting to learn, but I cannot learn from those who stubbornly spout the same dogma that people have been given for the past 1500 years.

Thank you for copying and pasting the passages. I have several copies of the Bible, concordances and online resources. And I'm familiar with the passages you pasted.

"The spirit and power of Elijah" can be reincarnation. You are interpreting it as some "carbon copy" of Elijah, but that's your interpretation. It's also a very common interpretation. That doesn't make it right. The church believed the Earth to be the center of the universe, until science showed irrefutably that it wasn't. Bad interpretation.

John the Baptist denied being Elijah. Too bad for him that he couldn't remember. Do you remember all of your past lives? Ah, but of course, you don't believe they exist.

It seems Jesus was disappointed with John's performance, saying that the lowest in Heaven was higher than him.

But what else does Jesus have to say about John?

"But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist" (Matthew 17:12-13 KJV).

Jesus did not say that the "likeness" or "carbon copy" of Elias has come. He said "Elias is come already." He said that they knew him not! In other words, the people of Israel did not recognize that Elias himself had returned. And the did whatever they wanted to do to him; i.e. cut off his head. This was not the body of Elijah, but the Holy Spirit which once inhabited that body now in its new body -- that of John the Baptist.

So, Elijah-John faltered and did not perfectly prepare the way for Jesus. He even sent some of his own disciples to ask if Jesus was the one -- the messiah. He was not seeing through the Holy Spirit. How could he know his own past lives without the Holy Spirit? He had somehow fallen out of grace.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@WWJ:

John 9:1-2 is about reincarnation! Read it again. (Not 1-12)

"...who did sin, this man, or his parents..."

Read again, "this man!"

How can a man born blind have done anything to deserve being born in that condition unless he had lived before?

@WWJ! You are interpreting. And you are missing so much!

Curses passed from generation to generation? Like voodoo? I don't think so. If a man murders several people while stealing from them, would he be executed for the murders? Would you also execute the innocent children of that man? God doesn't do this. Read Numbers 14:18 again.

But, here's a copy:

"The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

"The LORD is longsuffering." In other words, he is patient or slow to anger. And this isn't literal "anger," because God loves us. Tough love? Perhaps.

God is "of great mercy." What does "mercy" mean to you? I don't think He would go around punishing innocent children who had no volitional control over the evil of their ancestors. I could be wrong, but I see a loving God only "visiting the iniquity of the fathers" upon the guilty -- the perpetrators themselves.

It says, "...upon the children unto the third and fourth generation."

Hmmm-m-m! Why only the 3rd and 4th? And why "innocent" children?

Ahh-h-h! Not innocent children. Guilty children -- the perpetrators themselves reincarnated. Three or four generations gives the perpetrator long enough to live out his current life, to die, be born again of the flesh and to grow up to the point where he can then appreciate the "boomerang" which he himself had thrown 3-4 generations earlier.


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lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@WWJ:

Read Matthew 26:52 again. It echos the lesson of Numbers 14:18, namely reincarnation and karma.

Still don't believe it?

What about all of those murderers and Mafiosos who die of old age in their rich villas? How are they dying by the sword by which they lived? Does Matthew 26:52 fail sometimes?

No, it doesn't. Read Numbers 14:18 again. Three or four generations later, the Mafioso will be a young man brutalized by the Mafia. He will wonder why he is suffering so. He may even turn to God and ask, "Why, Lord, is this happening to me?" The stony heart may now be fertile soil for the seed of redemption to be planted.

Malachi 1:3, God hated Esau even in his mother's womb. Why? Was he a Mafioso in a prior life? Did he steal someone else's birthright? Payback by his own brother, Jacob? Dying by the sword by which Esau had lived in a prior life?

@WWJ, karma was not originated by Buddhism! Karma was originated by God! Your interpretation is getting pretty thick!

And you do judge me that I am sinning? Have you taken it upon yourself to be my judge?

And I'm trying to shake your tree so you will stop interpreting and stop judging! There is so much work to be done. Can you fulfill that promise with a shallow and mortal viewpoint?

@WWJ, you said, "You literally don't know you are wrong, but you will find out, unless you let pride get the best of you."

Could I say that about you?

The Devil likes our Bible's closed, yes. But he also likes our eyes closed, too -- clouded by interpretation. That's what we need to shake loose.

What many of you have learned, I left behind in my Southern Baptist minister grandfather's church 52 years ago.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@WWJ, where did I "assume" that you did not have spiritual experiences with God? I don't remember ever saying, thinking or implying that. If I did, I apologize, but please be a champ and point it out. Give me a quotation.

And thanks for the offer of spiritual answers. I have been asking questions for most of my entire life -- say about 58 years, back to some of my earliest memories. Contemplating such things as faith, doubt and the meaning of "self."


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

Lone77star, brother, I'm sorry to say that you are wrong.

I do not choose sides or interpret.

There's aren't my interpretations.

You wished things would go your way so that you can be right, but in the end, I promise that it is not worth it because you will only be far behind in knowledge.

Here's something that may enlighten you:

Matthew 5:3

Blessed are the poor in spirit; for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Humility is key and vital. But when you listen with your mouth instead of your ears, you are only denying truth just to create your own. And beware, God is watching you blaspheme. Your stubbornness will definitely catch up to you, maybe not tonight or tomorrow, but it certainly will.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@WWJ, and now forget everything I've said about reincarnation.

What is truly important here is that you do not interpret as you and so many millions of others have been doing -- for thousands of years!

Today, the church is perpetrating more "delusion" in the Fundamentalist camp, foisting their interpretation of scripture onto the world, condemning science for its dates far exceeding 6000 years.

If someone ignores reality completely, we typically call them delusional. That is a very poor state to be in. The unfaithful are frequently "reasonable," and that is only slightly better than delusional. With "true faith" one transcends reality -- fully aware of it and of the truth behind it.

So many Fundamentalist Christians are ignoring reality, wallowing in delusion. That's not good. The wisdom in the Bible is superior to that of science -- not in conflict with it. That's where the Fundamentalists get it wrong.

They also get it wrong by thinking that their interpretation of the Bible is equal to that of God. They take offense, because they think the Bible is being attacked. The problem is with their interpretation. The Bible is solid and strong; their interpretation is weak.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

The Bible does not ever speak of reincarnation, you've made that interpretation yourself, and I repeat:

2 Peter 1:20-21 “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”

This means that there is only ONE true interpretation for all Scripture.

Reincarnation is contrary to God's Will, because he did not create such a law.

I fear for your life, as you continue to steer wrong.

Be careful with your free will - don't let it take you too far.

You may be saved, but knowingly sinning when someone tells you to your face that you're wrong could potentially be dangerous by means of God's wrath.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Thank you, @WWJ. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss these issues.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

You don't know the meaning of reality, well, one because you're still stuck on questioning the idea of reincarnation. That's child's play. It's something you resolve when you're a teenager.

Your made up reality will only hurt you blindly, because you aren't free.

I can tell that you've been brainwashed and heavily influenced in the wrong direction.

"Be ye not conformed to this world, but be ye TRANSFORMED by the renewing of your mind, that ye may know that which is good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God"

Your belief isn't acceptable to God, because you are far from understanding his will. By not knowing that spirits exist and their capabilities - but only rejecting pure wisdom & knowledge, you are killing yourself slowly.

The Spirit of Elijah simply means the spirit that they came for; their purpose; their spirit of GOODNESS. Not literally one's own spirit being reincarnated.

You can study things for x amount of years and live up to x amount of years and still play this guessing game and never find the truth because you deny it.

Guess who's behind this? Guess who's keeping you from learning? Oh wait---it's a delusion right? Because you can't see or feel it.

When you don't believe in something, it doesn't make it nonexistent. Remember that.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

Lone77star....

This has nothing to do with Fundamentalists nor Christians nor religion.

If you've known better, God isn't a religion, he is real, the only and only - they've made labels to confuse society in hopes that they'll abstain from ever finding God.

God bless.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

Like voodoo? You say it like a joke as if superstition is unreal. Society[the Devil] makes it seem that way, for the gullible such as YOU to bend the truth in the Devil's favor.

God has his own reasons why generations can carry on curses. It's out of your understanding, so you deny it? Who gave you the right to do that? Our governments? Well, if God was our government you'd be facing severe counts of federal charges. Unfortunately, his enemy controls the governments.

God's word clearly states demonic possessions taking place.

Every individual has only one spirit - when you question His words you are in for some deep....you know what.


WalkWithJesus 5 years ago

Also, they questioned if he had sinned, not knowing if he was born with it or not; he might've sinned badly enough for God to curse him to become blind; that's their question, not your made up interpretation.

There are endless instances where a parent caused their child to be bonded, such as deaf or blindness.

There's a story about a fortune teller who born a blind child because should told people of their future(usage of witchcraft; evil spirits to benefit). Once she repented and acknowledged this, her child was able to see.


mikeq107 5 years ago

Well I have just had an intresting read watching you 2 LOL and all I can say is...I,m Glad the holy spirit reveals truth to us as we seek more of him....Great to meet you Lone77star Have a wonderful week in Him !!!

Mike :0)


Pollyannalana profile image

Pollyannalana 5 years ago from US

I do know the bible does speak of reincarnation such as with John the Baptist being someone (Elijah who did not die?)if we would receive it. Your hub is very different, I will have to come back when I have more time. If we have Jesus, for real, nothing else really matters, it will be what it will be.


EmmyJo 5 years ago

lone77star... the Bible is all about prophecy and it does not belong to you or I to interpret what's in it because that has already been done for us. Ours is to read it and leave it as it is. If we are humble, we will be among those who'd be blessed to understand as Daniel chapter 12 prophesied, and if we are proud and want to lean upon our own understanding, we will remain in eternal darkness.

First of all your choice of words leaves a lot to be desired because besides seeming confrontational, you seem like you just want to create controversy. When I decided to post a comment here it wasn't my intention to tell you or anyone what to think. I was merely sharing what I have read from the Bible because by reading it I am convinced that it is indeed God's word. Faith is the assured expectation of things not yet beheld (Hebrews 11:1), and even though a lot of things foretold long ago in the Bible are yet to be fulfilled, many others have been fulfilled and some are being fulfilled in our time as we watch. I have humbly allowed God's word the Bible to instruct me, to teach me (2Timothy 3:16,17) and that is what I willingly and freely share with others but it is NOT up to me to tell anyone what to think because like God's word says in Deuteronomy 11:26-28, we all have the freewill to choose which way we want to go.

According to the Bible, the male Adam, was created first and later the woman Eve, to reproduce mankind as husband and wife (Genesis 2:21-25). They were not to eat from one particular tree in the garden of Eden and if they did, they would die. Adam and Eve did die on the very day they ate from the tree because again, the scriptures explain that. When we as humans count 1,000 years, to God it's only 1 day (2Peter 3:8; Psalms 90:4) and since no one in the Bible, including Adam and his wife Eve lived for 1,000 years, no one has ever lived for a day according to God's chronology. Adam and Eve were told that they would return to the same state they were in before they were created - dust (nonexistence)- Genesis 3:19. Satan lied to Eve that she and her husband would not die if they disobeyed God, the exact opposite of what God had told them and we should ALL know who lied, but unfortunately majority of mankind believe Satan's lie even today (Genesis 2:17; 3:4). Reincarnation is part of that lie because it teaches immortality of humans who merely pass from one being to another without dying. Resurrection on the other hand, as taught in the Bible, is to BRING BACK TO LIFE those who have fallen asleep in death, and not moved on to somebody/something else's body.

That is why when Jesus came to earth, despite the fact that many faithful people had died before then, he was able to say that no one had ascended to heaven, including faithful King David (John 3:13; Acts 2:34). The Bible has a record of 8 people that were resurrected (even though they later died again). None of them said they had any recollection of an afterlife. That is why when Jesus said to Martha, Lazarus' sister that her brother would rise shortly before Jesus resurrected him, Martha said, "I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day" (John 11:24). For the same reason Jesus said that the hour is coming when those IN THE GRAVES will hear his voice and come out (John 5:28,29). Note that they will not be coming out of mice, dogs, cats, or other beings running around as reincarnation teaches. Reincarnation is a "re-cycling" so-to-speak, of life from one being to another, while resurrection gives life back to the same person who had it before death. It therefore goes without saying that the two teachings are as different from the other as day and night.

The Bible says that God is not a God of disorder (1Corinthians 14:33) and as such, he does not allow those who worship him to mix his pure worship with the worship of other gods and anyone who believes in the Bible knows that fact. That is why Paul said that Christians were not to be unevenly yoked with unbelievers as there is no harmony between Christ and the devil (2Corinthians 6:14-18). It is also why Elijah told the people of Israel who were indecisive to stop limping on two different opinions and if Yahweh was God, they were to follow him but if Baal (false god)was, they were to follow him (1Kings 18:21). Borrowing teachings from Buddhism, Hinduism, Kabbalah, or any other place and trying to incorporate those teachings into the Bible's teachings is not something I ever want to do because I searched for the truth in so many places before I found it. I have therefore accepted the God and Father of Jesus Christ as my God and Father (John 20:17). He is a wonderful, merciful God and desires that everyone gains everlasting life through his son Jesus' shed blood (John 3:16;2Peter 3:9), but only if they are willing. He sees anyone who is humbly and sincerely searching for him and he draws such ones to become disciples of Christ (John 6:44,45). I can only share my scriptural beliefs with others (1Peter 3:15), because passing my own opinion as wisdom is foolishness with God (1Corinthians 3:19).

When anyone rejects the Bible's teachings, they are in effect rejecting God so a true Christian will leave it in God's hands and move on (1Samuel 8:7; Matthew 10:14).

Finally, if you are sincerely seeking the true God, he is the only one who knows your heart and he will let himself be found by you. On the other hand if you are just trying to pass your own wisdom to others for argument's sake God knows that too. Let the scriptures do the talking because if man can't even direct his own step, how can he direct the steps of another? (Jeremiah 10:23).


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Wonderful, @mikeq107. Thanks for the good laugh and I am deeply humbled. Yes, an interesting conversation.

May the spirit guide you always.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@Pollyannalana, no greater wisdom. Thank you. That was exactly my point.

I fear for my dear friends who don't get it. Those who mistaken ego and their own ideas as "Christ," but that they may be aiming their hearts in the wrong direction.

I struggle with my own ego. And find such discussions help me pull the beam out of my own eye. I take every opportunity to observe the "self" in action, preparing for the day when it shall be put behind me completely and without regret.

The process continues.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@EmmyJo, thank you for your wonderful input.

Yes, the Bible has prophecy in it, but "all about prophecy?" Could it instead be all about "love" and "spiritual awakening?"

If we are humble. That's exactly my point.

My choice of words seems confrontational? Exactly!

Your quotations from scripture? Beautiful!

Your interpretations of those quotations? Interesting!

Resurrection and reincarnation? No conflict! I can see how both are part of God's plan, and it's beautiful.

Reincarnation part of the lie of Satan? Interesting!

You said, "fallen asleep in death." Very nice. I see a great deal of truth in this. And if bodily death returns the chemistry of the body to dust, then what is it that is "sleeping?"

Let the scriptures do the talking? Do you really mean that? Then why have you interpreted so much and judged what I say to be unworthy?

My dearest @EmmyJo, I love you dearly. I want all of us to make it, but we cannot if our eyes remain clouded.

Look at what @mikeq107 and @Pollyannalana said. Beautifully put and full of love. But as confrontational as my words seemed to be, I feel great love in them.

That you felt "confronted" indicates to me that you felt at effect. That is not a position of grace. I have felt that position all too often, myself. And I understand the pain of ego.

Yes, I will let scripture speak, but it will not be the only one talking. You have spoken. I have spoken. And because of our dialog, we both continue to learn. If I am the one who learns the most, then I will count myself truly blessed.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 5 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@WalkWithJesus, thank you again for your passion and zeal.

It seems clear that you care very much about Christ. That's good.

May the blessings of the Father be with you and show you the way.

Love you, bro.


EmmyJo 5 years ago

lone77star... the word "interpret" in this context is to understand according to individual belief, judgement, or interest. While you find it okay to "fill in" what you feel is left unsaid in the scriptures, I read the scriptures just the way they are without adding any of my own thoughts, or taking anything away as Revelation 22:18,19 suggests we do. The scriptures as far as I'm concerned are complete just the way they are and is a "read only book," to be followed by deeds.

For example Jesus and the early believers compared death to falling into a deep sleep (John 11:11; Psalms 13:3; Daniel 12:2; Acts 7:60; 1Corinthians 15:6). It makes sense because during the resurrection when the dead are brought back to life, it will be like they just woke up from a long sleep. You find the fact that the Bible compares death to sleep "interesting." As for me I just believe it becasue with God everything is possible and it doesn't matter how long or even how one "fell asleep in death," and returned to dust, he is able to make them live again (Matthew 19:26). It is clear that even though death is compared to sleep, the dead don't breathe like we do when we go to sleep but they do return to dust (Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10; Psalms 146:4; Genesis 3:19).

Of course those who soothe your "ego" by agreeing with your opinion have "put it beautifully, and made you feel great love in them." You know, I don't feel a personal pain when people don't agree with what I have merely borrowed from the Bible because I know it's God's word they are rejecting and not mine, so please speak for yourself. On the other hand if it was my own proud and stubborn opinion I would be pained but thankfully I CHOOSE not to lean upon my own understanding (Proverbs 3:5). I will not twist the scriptures or even try to interpret them... it's just not my place.

But I will continue to read God's word, the Bible, and I will continue to pray for guidance, and also for humble, sincere-hearted ones to find him before he (God) brings his wrath upon ALL the confusion that is going on in the world today (Zephaniah 2:2-3).

I'm a firm believer in agreeing to disagree, with the key word being... amicably.

Goodbye lone77star... I wish you well on your journey, and hopefully you'll use the Bible as your compass to help you find the narrow road that leads to life (Matthew 7:13,14). There is nothing wrong with gaining knowledge from other wholesome sources, but putting such knowledge or wisdom ahead of God's word is foolishness with God (1Corinthians 3:19) because it's short-lived.


SanXuary 5 years ago

This story is right on the point that we become fixated by Earthly ideals and explanation. In fact I argue the whole interpretation of so called salvation. Once the human agenda steals and controls your spiritual growth and maturity you become controlled by others and not by God. We embrace the status quote and the social agendas imposed on us by mostly Earthly endeavours. Do we have it wrong what life is after death and I ponder what that may even be. It must be something wonderful and what you do in this life somehow determines where we our afterwards. I often wonder if life here is simply hell and being fooled and overcoming this is how we get out of this place. If we are dimensional beings I wonder why we can not remember where it started unless this is where we started our journey.


DusanBordjoski profile image

DusanBordjoski 4 years ago from Senta, Serbia

Personally, I'm a believer. I believe that life is infinite. Death, is not the end, it's merely a transformation into a new period that we call "life". Of course, I might be wrong. But, that's what I believe in.

In other hand, what I don't believe is that we were born with a plan. If we were, where's the free will then?

Also, I believe that everything - including human being - is perfect. I know many of you will disagree, but if we are all God's creation, do you think that God will create anything less than what he is?


Scott P Williams profile image

Scott P Williams 4 years ago from Miami, Florida

I agree with Mariale2003 - all the answers will come from within and eventually we'll all realize that pure love is the only way. Only thing is are we capable of pure love?


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@EmmyJo, thank you for your input. Goodbye and farewell. Your input has helped to bring many ideas to the forefront.

If you ever return, and for the benefit of others who might be interested, here is my response.

I am a firm believer in trusting God for answers. I think very few people really do this with everything they do. There is too much reliance on the dogma handed down through the ages.

You imply by what you've written that you do not interpret scripture. Hmmm-m-m. So, where did you get your understanding of its meaning? Current dogma is the result of 2000 years of conflicting interpretations. In fact, we have hundreds of Christian denominations because of conflicting interpretations. What you say is not exactly that of all denominations. So, are you saying that you are not interpreting scripture, but they are? And what if they say the same thing about you? Who's right? I say that none of them are. And that is the entire point of my hub. We may feel humble, but I say we're not yet humble enough.

And @EmmyJo, even in your interpretation of my comment you fall short of accuracy. You say that others were soothing my ego? One may have agreed with me, but the other did not. The other cautioned me and I was humbled, but you did not see that. Read them more closely and you will see. I was not looking at their words, but the way they presented their ideas.

May we all find the grace of God, Christ and the Holy Spirit.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@SanXuary, thanks. Some profound ideas. Keeping asking questions. There may be typographical errors in the Bible, but the truth is in there. You can find it with a lot of humility, work and especially with the grace of God -- the act of awakening spiritually.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Hi, @Dusan. Thanks for your beautiful words of wisdom.

Keep searching for answers. Always question "authority," especially your own. I question my own "authority" regularly. That and my wonderful wife help to keep me humble (much of the time).

I understand where you're coming from. I've seen those viewpoints myself and see the truth in them.

Perhaps the "life" that exists after what we call "death" is only a sleeping state -- a spiritual state of "death" -- the death of the Garden and the Forbidden Fruit. Could it be that the fruit was a conceptual matrix instead of physical plant material? Only such a matrix of ideas could trap a baby god. From moment to moment, that baby child of God would be creating that matrix -- good-evil, right-wrong, generous-selfish, perpetrator-victim, confidence-doubt and others. Only with spiritual awakening -- being "born again" -- can we regain that perpetual life. I doubt if most (or any) so-called "born again" Christians have achieved this. I could be wrong. But I hope we all find it, through Christ.

I don't believe our lives are predestined, if that's what you mean by "plan." But I do feel that there is a plan. We get to choose if we will follow it or not.

Everything is perfect? Absolutely! Even a broken cup is perfect. It is perfectly that cup, broken. Nowhere in the universe can there be a cup as perfectly "that cup broken." But physical reality compared to the realm of creation--I'll take the spiritual realm of creation in a flash.

If you mean these physical bodies when you talk of perfection, that is not the image of God. He is not Homo sapiens.

Genesis 1:26-27 talks of the first creation of man (image of God). Genesis 2:7 talks of the second creation of man (from the dust of the ground). The image of God is not dust. Dust is chemicals. Dust is physical. This is talking of Homo sapiens.

The truly perfect part of man is the spiritual half -- the child of God, within.

That's my current view of things.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@Scott P Williams, thanks for your kind words. Yes, @Mariale2003 said it beautifully.

Are we capable of pure love?

Yes and no.

The mortal half of us is not. The body and especially the ego are not.

The currently sleeping child of God within is capable of pure and true love. But we must awaken that half, first.

I have seem that half awakened within me and I long to make it permanent. I also long to help others achieve this, too. And that's the reason I wrote this Hub. Too many are aiming at the wrong target. They think they already know, but that in itself is arrogance -- thinking through the mortal ego, rather than through the humility and grace of the Holy Spirit.

When this state of grace is awakened, then miracles happen. We become blessed by God and all else doesn't matter.


DusanBordjoski profile image

DusanBordjoski 4 years ago from Senta, Serbia

I was talking about spiritual part when I mentioned perfection. :) ... you got me right :) ...

Eventually, we are spiritual beings that use their body as a vehicle.. but, this could be understood wrong sometimes. There are people that don't take care of their body anymore when they understand their spirit. And that's not a good life either.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

I understand, Dusan. Beautifully put. You make some good points.


mljdgulley354 profile image

mljdgulley354 4 years ago

What wonderful discussions you provoke lone77star. There is a big difference in religion and relationship. Where in the Bible are we called into religion? Relationship with God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is what I have read in Scripture. Relationships are messy but even in the mess can be joyful.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

@mljdgulley354, thank you for your delightful comments.

I did very much mean to provoke. And I do love my "messy" relationship with God and Jesus, though I'm attempting to clean up my part.


agaglia profile image

agaglia 4 years ago

lone77star,

Thanks for the interesting and thought provoking hub. I'm a believer, but am always interested in thinking a new thought.


lone77star profile image

lone77star 4 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Thanks, @agaglia. As a believer, I try to remain humble to new thoughts. But I try to let God do the picking and choosing.


Say Yes To Life profile image

Say Yes To Life 2 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

What sort of a parent would I be if I subjected my children to this? "Follow some vague orders delivered by people who could possibly be charlatans; if you don't get it right, you'll spend an eternity in torment."


lone77star profile image

lone77star 2 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

Not a very loving parent, I suspect. But understanding the Bible and other spiritual books has never been a strong point for Ego. Ego corrupts. Ego separates, divides and conquers. Ego is selfish and self-concerned. Too many use Ego as their filter for reading and attempting to understand such works.

Interpreting the Bible has been botched by both believers and non-believers. Too many on both sides take everything literally and miss Truth. If the Bible could be summed up in one word, that word would be "Love." Certainly, many would reject this idea and would have many logical arguments to back it up. But like the pessimist, they know they will never succeed and they prove themselves right every time. What the skeptic needs to do if they want greater understanding on this, is to take this guiding word and ask, "How would I have to read this in order for this word to make sense?" This takes a certain amount of trial and error, but also logic and creativity. As Einstein said, imagination is more important than knowledge. With imagination, you can find an understanding of something that knowledge alone and literal reading will never be able to reach.

More than 3,000 years ago, Kabbalists wrote the Bible (first 5 books) in code. Code? Yes, and most people are clueless about this. Judging a book by its cover is not very smart, but it's all too human to go on first impressions. This creates misunderstandings and misperceptions.

It's natural to be suspicious of something you don't understand. I have not understood spiritual matters most of my life, but I know the Truth is out there, somewhere. Likely, I still don't understand them adequately enough. But I've seen miracles that would blister your eyebrows. There's a lot more to this universe than is known to man.

We need to rid ourselves of preconceptions and approach Truth with hunger, humility and a fearless confidence that answers are possible.

My view of Christianity keeps changing, but it is refining in a very specific direction -- a direction that is guided by a greater good, by love and by compassion.


Say Yes To Life profile image

Say Yes To Life 2 years ago from Big Island of Hawaii

Why does it have to be so hard? Especially with so much at stake?


lone77star profile image

lone77star 2 years ago from Cebu, Philippines Author

SayYes, good question. The good news is that you have more than one lifetime in order to "figure it out." This isn't cognitive "figuring," but "feeling" your way toward Truth. Ego (self-concern) is blindness. Humility allows you to "see" or "feel" more.

At the beginning of this life, I could already "feel" spirituality and God. My earliest dreams were ontological concerns of faith, doubt and self-awareness. Pretty heavy stuff for a 3-year-old. But somehow, I seemed ready for it.

As children of God, we are timeless, like Him. After all, we are created in His image and He is not Homo sapiens.

Why is it hard? Why is bench pressing 250 hard? Why is running a 4-minute mile hard? Because we have decided it is. With faith, things can become effortless. The first time I experienced True Forgiveness, it was effortless. Now, I understand what Christ meant when he said to turn the other cheek. When you do this properly, you are no longer your body. You are taking 100% responsibility for your enemy and wishing for them everything that they desire, because that is the love we need to share. When you take such complete responsibility, there's no longer any room for being a victim.

So, we can decide for it not to be hard. That takes perfect confidence (faith). If we view what is at stake as "important," then we fall back into the blindness of self-concern. So, don't think of it as "important." It simply IS what it is. Don't attach any meaning to it other than a destination.

I hope this helps.

If you're ready for the next step, you might understand and enjoy the following short video:

http://perceivingreality.com

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