When trying to convert me

Dear overzealous religious person. Hello my name is Shawn and I am a Mormon. Have you ever noticed that I am still a Mormon even though you think you have won several religious debates with me? Perhaps by some rationalization you think that I simply operate by a means of lunacy as you have clearly pointed out to me and proven beyond doubt (in your own mind), that I believe in the wrong Jesus.

Although this strange hardheadedness on my part may tend to boggle your mind as time and again you fervently attempt to show me the light, please allow me to give you a few tips which will aid in your endeavors to convert me.

1. First off, I don't like the word "cult", in fact when addressing the church which I belong to I believe that it would come across much less hostile when you use the correct name of my Church which is; "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"

2. The cryptic lamentation for that poor, lost soul." When they have found that arguing with me is pointless, a lot of people like to give me the I feel sorry for that poor lost Mormon message as though they have thrown their hands up in the air and told Jesus nothing more can be done. In all actuality there is much more that can be done. You could always walk around my temple waving around my religious undergarments, touting anti-Mormon propaganda through a megaphone. That always works!

3. Character assassination; it is a constant theme among many people who like to debate Latter Day Saints to rail against the character of us and our past prophets. Now clearly men are men and flawed as they are you seem to like to hold them to some kind of divine standard. Perhaps you think that we believe that the prophets were perfect, or otherwise infallible. it is to the point where I have actually seen LDS prophets held to a higher standard than biblical prophets. Absurd! No one is perfect except for Jesus Christ, you don't think otherwise do you?

4. A little advise on debating me. Please, please, please! Quit assuming that I don't know anything about the scriptures or my own religion. I've been a Latter Day Saint for 33 years and I have read everything I could get my hands on about the history and teachings of my church. And don't act like you are an expert on the subject just because you have visited a few Anti- Mormon web sights. i know that you didn't come across the information you have found by thumbing through LDS doctrine in your leisure time. In fact I will assume that you most likely went out of your way to find something wrong with my church to prove to me how flawed my religion is and how much smarter than me you are. Remember when speaking on behalf of "The real Jesus" you had best keep your ego out of the conversation and attune yourself to the promptings of the holy spirit.

5. Speaking of the Holy Spirit; it's probably better for you that instead of debating me about my church, that you join it, or at least find out who we really are.

Lastly, it is important to know that the ones who benefit the most out of religious debates are the atheists, they love watching religious people squabble among themselves. So be nice, forgiving, dare I say, polite, even Godly in your communications, remember the Lord want's fruitful Christians not religious nuts!

More by this Author

  • I think I'm part Cherokee
    10

    A lot of very white people with Southern roots always seem to be claiming that they have a native American ancestor in their family tree. If you're going to say it, might as well prove it.

  • Family history part 4
    32

    James William Dockery Born in 1768, Died in 1855 (Cherokee,NC) He had six children all living around the county of Buncombe. James married a woman by the name of Nancy, he is the oldest Dockery mentioned in the...

  • Evolution theory doesn't make sense.
    126

    Of the many fields of science which I am in agreement with there are a few questionable things which always seem to take the forefront of the political and social infrastructure. Such controversies have arisen...


Comments 32 comments

Mary W. 5 years ago

I must correct the premise of the video at the end of your article. Nerds are not people who are "passionately obsessed with something". That is the precise definition of Geek. Which, I'll admit, may be only something an actual nerd or geek would know. :D


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Although I felt that the video was an accurate representation of the point I was making, (and don't think I didn't notice the clerical error), I was willing to make the sacrifice. It was, after all, only a slight misrepresentation of nerds, none the less It just may affect my hub score. what to do, what to do.........


passingtheword 5 years ago

hello Onusonus. Well I see what you think about errors. You just ignore what you want then except what make you feel right. Sounds like what the LDS church does.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

The LDS church teaches it's members to follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Remember that the wisdom of God is foolishness to men.


SheriSapp profile image

SheriSapp 5 years ago from West Virginia

I have had a few member of LDS as students in my classes, and I am always surprised how they REALLY want to keep it quiet. I think religious faith is always a good thing so long as your faith does no harm to others. I am trying to become a regular attendee at my local Methodist church, and I have been enjoying the sermons. It is good to know there IS a higher power, and we will all answer to it eventually!!


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

I don't know about your students personally but when I was in school I didn't like talking about it because I didn't really want to be different, or to be preceived as some kind of bible thumper.


passingtheword 5 years ago

God Teaches not to follow the blind. All These errors and false claims that the LDS church makes and you still follow it. The Blind Leading the Blind.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Not in the least dude. You say I follow the blind but you are mistaken, I follow Jesus Christ the light and the life.


passingtheword 5 years ago

What Jesus do you follow? The Jesus that had a bunch of wives the Jesus that a bunch of kids with these women. The Jesus that your god came down here from heaven and had sex with Mary. You can keep that so called jesus.

Just think how crazy that sound. I believed that crap until i saw how false that was. Stop over looking things and see the whole picture. the bible is true it does not need a back up plain.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

I believe you are confusing the LDS church with the "Da Vinci code". Interesting book but not even remotely close to what we believe.

Now another false claim; you say the LDS church teaches "god came down here from heaven and had sex with Mary"

This is yet another old accusation that holds no water simply because there is no such teaching in the LDS church. In fact the official position of the church on the subject is quite the opposite.

critics often read statements through their own theological lenses, and ignore the key distinctions which LDS theology is attempting to make by these statements. Instead, they try to put a salacious spin on the teaching, when this is far from the speakers' intent. The key, official doctrine of the Church is that Jesus is literally the son of God (i.e., this is not a symbolic or figurative expression), and Mary was a virgin before and after Christ's conception.

Now you said; "I believed that crap until i saw how false that was." This imply's that you were once previously a Latter Day Saint, however I hardly believe that you ever attended a church service where any of the things you asserted were taught. You too then can keep that Jesus because I don't believe in the one that the anti-Mormon sources you have quoted have conjured up for the soul purpose of degrading and belittling my religion.


passingtheword 5 years ago

you need to learn what is being taught in you own religion buddy.

Journal of discourses vol. 8 p 115 "The birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it

was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH AND BLOOD--was begotten

of his father, as we were of our fathers." (JoD, vol. 8, p. 115)

you are ether in the dark, unlearned or just lying to yourself

and everyone you talk to.

here is one more

(JoD 1:50-51)He is the first of the human family; and when he (Christ) took a

tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in Heaven, AFTER THE SAME MANNER as

the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam

and Eve. Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same

character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven."

I think you are anti Mormon, because you are saying the authorities of your church are wrong.

I love hearing your responses. they make no sense. I show this to our group and it is helping us convert more mormons to Christianity. i told you before that I go to BYU. a month ago we had 75 of us meeting in secret to study the true word of God. know we have over a 100. The new freshmen class were hungry for the true word and knew for a long time that the LDS faith is wrong and a lie.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

perhaps you are under the assumption that the journal of discourses are canonized scripture. In the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints we have four standardized works which we ad hear to and learn from they are; The King James Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. Not everything that was said by God's prophets is scripture, but just about everything they have said has been written down, and as such anti-Mormons use that fact as a free for all when accusing, misleading, and vilifying Latter Day Saints.

While Catholic’s believe that the Pope is infallible in matters of doctrine, and while some Protestants believe that the Bible is “infallible,” Latter-day Saints do not believe that Prophets—neither past nor present—are infallible. President Charles W. Penrose of the First Presidency, for example, once wrote: “We do not believe in the infallibility of man. When God reveals anything it is truth, and truth is infallible. No President has claimed infallibility.”The Bible doesn’t suggest that prophets are infallible. Writing about the Old Testament prophet Elijah, James said that he was “a man subject to like passions as we are” (James 5:17).Jeremiah got so mad at God that he claimed the Lord had“deceived” him and he swore he would never speak in thename of the Lord again (see Jeremiah 20:7, 9.) Even Peter and Paul had disagreements (see Galatians 2:11-14).

Joseph Smith understood that he was fallible when he wrote: “A prophet was a prophet only when he was acting as such.”

On another occasion he said: “I am subject to like passions as other men, like the prophets of olden times.”He also declared: “I told them I was but a man, and they must not expect me to be perfect; if they expected perfection from me, I should expect it from them; but if they would bear with my infirmities and the infirmities of the brethren, I would likewise bear with their infirmities.”

Lorenzo Snow, who had a testimony that Joseph was a prophet, nevertheless wrote that he saw Joseph’s “imperfections” and “thanked God that He would put upon a man who had those imperfections the power and authority He placed upon him... for I knew that I myself had weaknesses, and I thought there was a chance for me...”

“We are all liable to err,” wrote Brigham Young “and many may think that a man in my standing ought to be

perfect; no such thing.”

as for your inflammatory statements the truth is an anti Mormon is someone such as yourself who goes around all day telling Mormons they are wrong, and teaching their congregations the same instead of focusing on their own faith, something which I have yet to see from you.

It sounds pathetic that you and 99 other people gather together every Sunday to talk about why Mormons are wrong because from speaking with you that's pretty much all you seem to be interested in.

I however would rather admonish the people of God to go to work, baptizing, and administering to the spiritual needs of the body of Christ,(the congregation), and others in the community who are in need, to grow in their relationship with, and knowledge of their creator.


bambamnpebbles profile image

bambamnpebbles 5 years ago from Iowa

Is this a 'my dad can beat up your dad' thing? I am a Christian, and I have these insesant mormons at my house. I love them to pieces. They have not yet shown me anything against the Word of God. I believed the LDS church to be cultist my whole life, and still am searching. However, I can admit that I've never seen a more passionate group that followed the Truth which is Jesus the Christ. Hard to say, but truth is truth. We all need to remember that Jesus is supposed to bring us together and religion is ripping us apart while the world laughs at us. The fact is that this world holds anyone who belives in Jesus to a higher standard. This is why when a christian sins, it's the end of the world and Jesus as the world knows it. Let's love on each other in the Lord instead of fighting over little things. Ups to ya. BTW I am a nerd. I loved the vid regardless. FUNNY STUFF! lol :-)


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Bambampebbles, I couldn't have said it better. Bickering over minutia rarely solves anything, I have not converted him and he will not convert me. I believe that religion is a necessary thing and because people are imperfect they will be wrong no matter what, this is why it is so important to teach by power of the Holy Spirit rather than fallible human logic.


bambamnpebbles profile image

bambamnpebbles 5 years ago from Iowa

Amen! We are all sinners, John 3:17 to me is one of the most important verses in the Bible, and yet so overlooked. "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that through Him the world might be saved." We need to love each other and focus on how to get to be with our Father who loves us, not beating each other down. Much love to you!


passingtheword 5 years ago

Bambamnpebbles I am not talking about the lds people. I was one for a time. i am talking about the doctrine. It steers people away from what the bible teaches. The LDS church teaches that the bible is not reliable and in turn must turn to the only true book in their eyes (the book of mormon) Bambamnpeddles do you see that they are removing what we get the truth from and making people think that the bible is wrong. It puts people in dangerous grounds.

Onusonus according to the church they know where these battles happened, they reenact the battle all the time. why have they not dug. why? like I said before, because they know they wont find anything


bambamnpebbles profile image

bambamnpebbles 5 years ago from Iowa

I think that the Holy Spirit will allow the truth without anyone arguing and bringing about the spirit of contention.It's not about the doctrine. It's about Jesus. God bless you both.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Passingtheword, The Bible is one of the four standard works that the LDS church adheres to and teaches by. There has never been a single thing taught by LDS prophets that even remotely leads one to believe that the Bible is unreliable.

I would also like you to show me exactly what official article or edict or letter shows where these battles took place.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

bambamnpebbles thanks for adding to the discussion. And may we all come to a greater knowledge that Jesus Christ is the savior and redeemer of our souls.


passingtheword 5 years ago

you do not believe that the bible is truly true articles of faith 8. you need to read about the sticks. It is not talking about the bible and the book of morman. Read it for yourself without the influences of the lds church. don't get a testimony of Joseph smith just listen to the Word of God.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Actually you are dead wrong, I do believe that the Bible is true, I do not however believe that every translation is correct hence the 8th article of faith, are you telling me that you completely agree with every translation of the bible?

As for the sticks, I suppose you are talking about the ones mentioned by the prophet Ezekiel. It is possible for the scripture to have more than one meaning. And believing one point does not detract from believing the other. Study and pray about it and you will come to the knowledge that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God and that Jesus is the one and only savior of Mankind.


passingtheword 5 years ago

who cares about joseph smith you worship joseph smith more than jesus. "pray and find a testimony of joseph smith". who cares about him. and the sticks man you need to read and not let the lds tell you what to think (cult) the two sticks came together in 1948 when Israel became a nation again. two sticks become one. Judah and israel became one. read man without that cult (LDS) telling you what to think man.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Worship is paying respect or homage to a divine being or supernatural power. Elder Bruce R. McConkie, a late member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, stated, "Deity is worshipped in prayer, song, sermon, and testimony; by the making of covenants, offering sacrifices, performance of ordinances, and the participation in religious rituals and ceremonies."Latter-day Saints worship God the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ, in this way (see Doctrine and Covenants 135; 59:5). Members of the Church of Jesus Christ do not consider Joseph Smith to be a deity, nor do they worship him in any way. President Gordon B. Hinckley stated,

We do not worship the Prophet [Joseph Smith]. We worship God our Eternal Father, and the risen Lord Jesus Christ. But we acknowledge [Joseph Smith], we proclaim him, we respect him, we reverence him as an instrument in the hands of the Almighty in restoring to the earth the ancient truth of the divine gospel.

Faithful members of the church hold Joseph Smith to be a prophet of God in the sense that religious leaders of the Old Testament were prophets of God. Anyone who will read any of the revelations received by Joseph Smith or passages from the Book of Mormon will see their emphasis on the worship of the one true God and his Son, Jesus Christ. Anyone attending a Mormon worship service will be impressed by the focus on the Savior in all worship, conversation, and study.

As a faithful Latter-day Saint, I have tremendous admiration and respect for the great Latter-day prophet, Joseph Smith. The persecution he endured in his short life and the sacrifices he made for the benefit of others are astonishing to me. I know of Joseph's great love for Jesus Christ and his teachings. I have come to appreciate the nobility of his actions, even toward those who fought against him and sought to destroy him with their fallacious reports. He was a man of great spiritual strength who withstood hardships with a cheerful heart. Those who denounce Joseph Smith as a liar or a fraud, or who suggest that he was simply a charlatan bent on his own aggrandizement, demonstrate their own ignorance, for many great men who knew the "boy prophet" testified of his honorable and impressive character.

I know that he was not a perfect man. Joseph was chastised by the Lord in revelations more than any other person. He knew he was not a perfect man--he said and wrote so on many occasions. I do not expect him to be perfect. Yet I revere Joseph Smith as the Lord's mouthpiece and a prophet of the last dispensation.

While he was a prominent Presbyterian minister, Roger R. Keller (now a member of the Church of Jesus Christ) carefully studied the life and teachings of Joseph Smith. He wrote,

Joseph Smith's desire and ability to provide (based upon a literalistic interpretation of the King James scriptures) theological responses to the innumerable doctrinal questions with which we all struggle was truly amazing. We may ultimately disagree with the results of his exegesis, but we must respect him as a Christian of immense stature whose legacy to the world is a Church whose membership now numbers in excess of 5 million persons [now 14 million].

Like Paul of old, Joseph Smith was keenly aware of his shortcomings and weaknesses, but he was also aware of his divine calling and the eternal implications of his assigned ministry. A balanced review of the life and teachings of Joseph Smith reveals a man of great stature, richly deserving of the honor bestowed upon him by those who knew him well.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Latter-day Saints have historically interpreted Ezekiel 37:15–17 as being a prophecy of coming forth of the Book of Mormon in the last days. Elder Boyd K. Packer explained it this way in General Conference, October 1982:

I must tell you of a work that has moved quietly forward in the Church virtually unnoticed. It had its beginning in Old Testament times and is the fulfillment of a prophecy by Ezekiel, who wrote:

"The word of the Lord came...unto me, saying, Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, for Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand."

The sticks, of course, are records or books. In ancient Israel records were written upon tablets of wood or scrolls rolled upon sticks. The record of Judah and the record of Ephraim, according to the prophecy, were to become one in our hands. Two events connected with the fulfillment of the prophecy were centered in print shops.

One of Joseph Smith's early revelations makes the connection between the Book of Mormon and Ezekiel's "stick of Ephraim," so we are bound to this interpretation in some form:

...the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel, to whom I have committed the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim. (D&C 27:5.)

Since the Book of Mormon makes clear that Lehi was a descendant of Manasseh, brother of Ephraim (Alma 10:3), it is less than straight forward to identify it as the "stick of Ephraim". Nevertheless some LDS general authorities have made such an attempt. Orson Pratt claimed another ancestor of the Book of Mormon peoples, Ishmael, was an Ephraimite in 1850. The late reminiscences of Franklin D. Richards and Erastus Snow attributed this teaching to Joseph Smith and the missing 116 pages. Joseph Fielding Smith additionally emphasized that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Ephraim and noted that this fits well with the alternative phrasing found in v. 19 of "the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim."

In context, this portion of Ezekiel's record is a prophecy of the restoration and reunification of the divided house of Israel. Ezekiel sees a vision of a valley of dry bones that are miraculously reassembled with flesh, and the breath of life returns to them (37:1–10). The Lord promises Ezekiel that he will raise the people of Israel from the dead and give them rest in their own land (11–14). The Lord then gives the prophecy of the sticks (15–20). He explains the sticks represent the restoration of Israel to their homeland and reunification of the formerly separated nations of Judah and Israel (Ephraim) (21–22). They will live God's law, be purified from unrighteousness, and be ruled over by the heir of house of David (23–28).

So what does the Book of Mormon have to do with the reunification of Israel and how does Lehi, descendant of Manasseh, fit into a prophecy of a "stick of Ephraim"?

For Latter-day Saints this is an example of "likening the scriptures unto ourselves," as Nephi suggested (1 Nephi 19:23). The Book of Mormon is the restoration scripture for modern-day Ephraim—the people of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—and a message that they take to the world so that Israel may be gathered a final time in preparation for the second coming of the Lord.

Although Ezekiel was speaking directly of reunification, Latter-day Saints have applied their own modern application of this passage as it relates to the Book of Mormon's role in the restoration of the gospel and the gathering of Israel.


passingtheword 5 years ago

Your explanation of ezek 37 completely contradicts what Boyd said and what the lds church believes. Its funny that Boyd's explanation stops at versus 17. Because God starts to explain what he meant in versus 19 and on, it doesn’t have anything to do with books. It has to do with the “NATIONS” gathering back to Israel (which happened in 1948) That’s how the lds church teaches. They take what they want and leave out what ever will show that they are teaching falsely. Just like you said they add their own things. Thanks for showing that.

You are anti-mormon.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Hardly, most languages have words that can have multiple meanings depending on context. Words only have meaning as they relate to the social system of the speakers of a language. As it has been pointed out time and again throughout historical bible scholarship the same word can mean different things according to the era, language, and culture. As it has been noted by many that the holy scriptures are infinitely deep with wisdom so can we gain a greater understanding of the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven through diligent study and prayer. Hence as elder Packard pointed out, the statement made by Ezekiel represents both a uniting of two countries as well as the unification of the Bible with the Book of Mormon as it's companion. These are personal beliefs that each and every individual should reflect on and gain a testimony of through prayer and fasting which is the true way to receive personal revelation, to say "they add their own things", is a misconception as they are men of God who have been ordained with the authority of Jesus Christ to guide and direct his righteous people in these the Latter Days, and as such are under the explicit direction of Jesus Christ. To say that this is an anti-Mormon statement is to say that Elder Packard is an Anti-Mormon which is ridiculous.

Once we recognize that words don't always easily translate from one language to another, and once we understand that not all languages delineate categories in the same way as English-speaking people, we find that there are at least two possible resolutions to the interpretation of Ezekiel's vision.

I find it to be an interesting standard that you allow yourself to interpret scripture and the fulfillment of revelation in the manner that you please on such debatable topics as the post World War Two Zionist movement, yet you allow no room for others to interpret other passages of the Bible according to the dictates of outside belief systems as plausible assertions.


passingtheword 5 years ago

On your last statement. Is that not truth, the re-gathering of the Nation of Israel. When Israel became a nation, it will be attack from all sides but will not be concurred because the power of the Lord.

"Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things?

Shall the Earth be made to give birth in one day?

Or shall a nation be born at once?

For as soon as Zion was in labor, she gave birth to her children."

(Note: This prophecy was fulfilled in one day - on May 14, 1948)

(Isaiah 66:8

"He will set up a banner for the nations,

and will assemble the outcasts of Israel,

and gather together the dispersed of Judah

from the four corners of the Earth." (Not just Babylon ...)

(Isaiah 11:12)

"Thus says the Lord God:

' Surely I will take the children of Israel

from among the nations,

wherever they have gone,

and will gather them from every side

and bring them into their own Land."

(Ezekiel 37:21) ('Nations' plural ... this is not their return from Babylon)

"And you, son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel,

and say, ‘O mountains of Israel,

hear the Word of the LORD ...’"

"But you, O mountains of Israel,

you shall shoot forth your branches

and yield your fruit to My people Israel,

for they are about to come . . ."

"For I will take you (the children of Israel) from among the nations,

gather you out of all countries,

and bring you into your own Land."

(Ezekiel 36:1, 8, 24)

"Thus says the Lord GOD:

‘Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, (plural ... not Babylon)

wherever they have gone,

and will gather them from every side

and bring them into their own Land;’"

(Ezekiel 37:21)

When did this happen? in 1948. the Power of God will watched over them

Within hours of Israel's declaration of independence in 1948, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Lebanon invaded Israel. The combined population of those countries was at least 20 million at that time. Israel had fewer than 1 million Jews. Even so, the Jews won the war and expanded the size of Israel by 50 percent.

This event took us into the generation of the fig tree.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

That is your interpretation of the scriptures and I respect your decision to make that connection of secular history and Biblical prophecy. I however will continue to maintain the plausibility in duality of prophecy as both literal and spiritual guidance from the Lord God.

As the prophet Amos wrote; "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

And until that interpretation is revealed to the world through his authorized servants as a complete fulfillment of prophecy, I will maintain my belief that the gathering of Israel is a much more complex issue. And that it applies to all of the house of Israel as the faithful are grafted to the House of Abraham through dedicated faith in Jesus Christ. The faithful continue to be gathered out of their nations and away from the things of the world, (Babylon), and into the Lords Church, (Zion).


ruffridyer 5 years ago from Dayton, ohio

You make some good points. When discussing religion one should always strive to be civil. I am the only lds member in my family. My younger brother and his wife are continually seeking to save me from eternal damnation.

It gets kinda tedious after a while.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Ruffrider, Oh the wonderful world of apologetics, well at least you know they care.


passingtheword 5 years ago

The Bible has revealed everything we need. there is only one thing that is hidden from us, and that is the date when he returns. the book Of revelation (to reveal). Joel 2:27 son and daughters will prophecy. so you are just as good as president/prophet Monson.

2 there is no need for the prophet part of president monson

Hebrew 7 22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

23And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

26For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; ..... all we need is Jesus. there need for the pope monson. the are good to teach if they know what they are talking about. Jesus is our revealer it is he that intercedes and gives to his people.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Passingtheword, it is presumptuous for us to limit God. there is specific example in the Bible of God adding to his own word through later prophets. In the book of Jeremiah 36:27-32 we find that Jehoikam the king of Judah burnt a book of scripture to which Jeremiah was commanded to write the scripture again and "Added many like words". With this fact one would have to consider that either Jeremiah violated God's will or that prophets have the right to add to god's word when moved upon by his holy spirit. It would also be presumptuous to think that God has commissioned every follower of Jesus Christ to do such.

if there were no more prophets authorized to write scripture after Jesus how did we get the new Testament? None of it was written by Jesus but by men after Jesus had ascended to heaven.

The apostle Luke is another example who openly admitted in the book that bears his name that he was not an eye witness to the events which had transpired and yet he wrote about them and his words were added to the new testament which every Christian regards as the word of God.

what you are suggesting is that there is no need for a church organisation and that clearly contradicts the teachings of Christ. In Corinthians 12: 27-28 we read that god commissions Apostles, prophets, and teachers. and in the book of Ephesians 2:20 makes clear that the church is built on the foundation of apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone.

Clearly just as the work of Jesus Christ, the chief cornerstone of the foundation, continues, the need for the work of the rest of the foundation, he apostles and prophets, also continues.

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working