Why Rome is Not Daniel's Fourth Kingdom

God reveals to the prophet Daniel visions that are similar with and correspond to what he reveals later to the Apostle John, in the book of Revelation. This is a summary comparison of the visions seen by Daniel and John about, in particular, the identity of the last world empire.

There are fine scholars who differ greatly on the identity of this last world empire, and I do not expect a summary to be perfect. However, I offer this summary and my sources for you to examine, yourself.

There is much left unsaid in Scripture so as to cause the many differing viewpoints, and the last empire seen in these visions is not clearly identified.

Prophet Daniel's dream

Source

However, what we do find as prophesied in Daniel and Revelation about the identity of this empire does provide us some important details.

Kingdoms prophesied in Daniel

Daniel interprets in chapter 2, first, a dream then King of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, had. He then has his own dream from God in chapter 7 that is the same as Nebuchadnezzar's, but with different imagery.

Combining these passages with yet another vision Daniel has in chapter 8, we see four kingdoms described. The identity of the first three are clear.

Daniel sees four kingdoms

Kingdoms
Passages in Daniel
Identity
First
2:38; 7:4
Babylon
Second
2:32, 39; 7:5; 8:20
Media-Persia
Third
2:32, 39; 7:6; 8:5-8
Greece
Fourth
2:33, 40-43; 7:7
?

Daniel's statue of 4 kingdoms

Source

A rock struck the statue (2:34-35)

Source

There is a fourth empire that Daniel sees, but it is not clearly named. Most have thought this empire to be Rome, as it rose up following the Greek empire. The thought is that the ten toes of iron and clay (2:41) will be some kind of ten-nation revived Roman Empire in the last days before Christ returns.

10 things about Daniel's fourth empire

In considering whether the identity of this fourth empire is Rome, first, here are ten things said in Daniel and Revelation about the last world empire.

1. Both Daniel and John see the last empire - The following passages all refer to the same last world empire:

Daniel 2, the 4th kingdom (legs of iron, feet of mixed iron and clay)
Daniel 7, the 4th beast (terrifying, iron teeth)
Revelation 12, 13 & 17, a king or kingdom

2. Power source - Its power, throne and authority come from Satan.

3. Strong - It is a kingdom that is strong, terrifying, dreadful, crushing, trampling down, breaking in pieces and devours the earth.

4. Different - It is different than all the other previous kingdoms.

5. Mortally wounded - It has had a seeming mortal wound but then heals, causing all to marvel. It was, is not and will come. It is called an eighth king, though it comes from one of the previous seven.

6. Spawns 10 kings - From it 10 kings arise—not a strong union, as some kings are stronger than others.

7. Another king - A king that arises overthrows three of the 10 kings, and receives power and authority from the other kings. He speaks blasphemous words against God.

8. Rules world - All the world is then under this king’s authority and worships him and Satan.

9. Conquers the saints - This king then with the other kings makes war on the saints and conquers them.

10. Lamb conquers the kings - The Lamb, “one like a son of man”—like this rock pictured stricking the statue—conquers these kings and sets up an everlasting kingdom, ruling all the nations of the world together with the saints.

Beast with 7 heads & 10 horns

Source

10 reasons why the fourth empire is not Rome

There are ten reasons why the last kingdom is not the Roman Empire.

1. John sees the last empire (the beast) as identified with the Greek (leopard), Persian (bear) and Babylonia (lion) empires in Revelation 13:2. However, he does not also see Rome as a fourth empire in his vision, even though the Roman Empire had already begun 158 years previous to John's writing.

2. In Revelation 17:10, the the 6th king or kingdom that was still in existence at the time of John’s writing is obviously the Roman Empire (63 BC – 476 AD). However, he does not associate the 6th with the last terrifying empire in Daniel’s vision, but rather he associates it with the 7th kingdom.

3. In Revelation 17:11, the last kingdom is the 8th one. If this were the Roman Empire resurrected, then Rome would have had to be the 7th kingdom and not the 6th.

Successive empires

Source

The Islamic empire

Source

Summary points related to Islam

  1. Islam 'devours' geographically the previous three kingdoms.
  2. Islam beheads many who refuse to follow it.
  3. It is a empire with a clear division between two sects.
  4. A revived Caliphate could fulfill the prophecy in Revelation.
  5. Islam is bent on worldwide conquest, as the previous three kingdoms were.

4. Daniel 2 is a revelation of what would later happen to Babylon. Maps of the Babylonian, Media-Persian and Greek Empires—like this on the right—show each succeeding empire includes the previous one, expanding further than the previous empire. However, Rome did not include all of the previous Greek Empire.

5. To break in pieces all four kingdoms at the same time in Daniel 2:34-35, they would have to overlap geographically. The Roman Empire does not fully overlap the previous empires. However, we see in the next map at the right that the Islamic Empire overlaps the previous empires.

6. In Daniel 7:7, “devour” means not only conquer militarily, but geographically, culturally, religiously and changing languages. (Islam, however, does all this.)

7. In Revelation 20:4, those who had not worshipped the beast or accepted the mark had been beheaded. Rome did not do this, but Islam beheads those who do not convert.

8. Daniel 2:41 says the last kingdom will be one that is divided. After Mohammed, his empire was divided into what is today Sunni and Shia. Even today, like in Iraq, we see much of the violence is between these two groups.

9. The Muslim Empire led by the Caliphate conquered the Byzantine Empire in 1453 but, as the Turkish Ottoman Empire, it ended in 1924. If it revives, it could fulfill Revelation 13:3; 17:8, 11.

10. As the empires before it were bent on worldwide conquest, so is Islam and it is doing this on the largest scale ever. Also, see Revelation 6:2, where the first Seal of a horse and rider goes forth to conquer.

Do you think Islam will become the fourth kingdom?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Not sure
See results without voting

Rome did not fully conquer Greece

Rome left the borders ot the Greek Empire largely intact. The Greek language continued as the dominant language of the Roman Empire, and the Romans did not destroy the Greek gods. They even embraced them and gave them Latin names. We see that the Greek Hellenistic culture continued under the Roman Empire. Rome did not "crush" Greece as depicted in Daniel's vision of the fourth empire. The fourth empire of Daniel's vision must be another empire besides Rome.

Rome vs. Islam - Joel Richardson

Why the last empire is not Rome--Walid Shoebat

© 2012 Deidre Shelden

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Comments 82 comments

glmclendon profile image

glmclendon 4 years ago

Excellent and thought provoking. Much work in sharing the word of God. Not all people can handle this kind of strong word.

Stay Well


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

glmclendon, yes, hoping to provoking thinking for others. Hope this is not too heavy for others to follow, but simplified enough to be clear.


debsjharrison profile image

debsjharrison 4 years ago

Hi Mrs Dee, well argued. I got there too. Especially as converted Muslims have been saying this (see Sid Roth archives). I live in Harrow in the UK and can see they are very strategic. A huge mosque in 'Harrow and Wealdstone' and Regents Park. I have seen two spiritual fronts over the UK, mammon from the West and the spirit of Islam from the east. Although I also believe that many Muslims who see Jesus will have more furfour than us to tell others!

Also watch the area to the right of Erzurum in Turkey.


lifegate profile image

lifegate 4 years ago from Pleasant Gap, PA

Ms DEE,

some interesting stuff!! Bookmarked for further study, and voted up.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

debsjharrison, your confirmation that those Christians who are former Muslims see Islam as the conquering empire of the end times is very interesting. I know some, too, who have told me this. Yes, many Muslims are seeing Jesus in visions and are converting, so they will be His witnesses. I've not heard of Sid Roth so thanks for the tip to check his archives. Interesting how the UK is where west and east collide. Will check out Erzurum, Turkey and eastwards.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

lifegate, may you find this useful for your study.


Gypsy Rose Lee profile image

Gypsy Rose Lee 4 years ago from Riga, Latvia

Voted up and interesting. I am a little wavering between the Roman and the Islamic but I think that frighteningly enough it just might be the Islamic. Thanks for sharing this thought provoking hub. Passing it on.


Angela Blair profile image

Angela Blair 4 years ago from Central Texas

Ms Dee - you never fail to amaze me with your insight and intelligence. I'll definitely go forward with more research and study on my own due to this Hub. Thank you -- and voted up! Best/Sis


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Gypsy, I am pleased to hear you re-thinking whether Rome is the fourth kingdom of Daniel's vision. Great you are passing it on :)


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Angela, it warms my heart to hear you will be studying this further. Let me know where that takes you!


teaches12345 profile image

teaches12345 4 years ago

Thanks for the challenging thoughts on Daniels Fourth Kingdom. It is true that we do not really know what where it will transpire, although we can watch the puzzle begin to take shape. Great post.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

teaches, yes, for sure we know that we do not know for sure how this prophesy will be fulfilled. As you say, when it is fulfilled, we will know it and that God is carrying out his plan that he revealed to Daniel.


CJ Sledgehammer 4 years ago

A very thought-provoking and convincing Hub, Ms Dee.

I, too, have studied the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation in great depth, but must conclude that even more study and prayer is needed.

I agree with you that Rome is not the fourth beast in Daniel. For one, Rome did not conquer the entire Greek Empire or the preceding Empires.

In fact, Rome made a pact with the Parthians that the Eurphrates River would be their political boundary line. In doing so, this means that Babylon, Media and Persia were largely out of the Roman grasp.

The other issue I picked up on is that the Greeks were unbeatable...unlike the Romans. Rome lost quite a few battles and wars, but the Greeks under Alexander did not.

Another issue is that the Medes and Persians had no ability to protect themselves from the Greeks, who involked terror upon these people. The Medes and Persians had no military answers and even though they had greater numbers...they were slaughtered wholesale.

One must also keep in mind that the Romans were the second coming of Greece. Their culture was Greecian, their gods were Greecian, even their military tactics were Greecian...they even dressed like them.

In fact, Romulus and Remus, were two brothers from Troy, and together would found Rome around 750 B.C....as two Greek brothers.

By the time the Romans came on the Middle-Eastern scene, the Parthians already knew how to combat the Roman legions, who employed Greecian military tactics, armor, and weaponry. In this stead, Rome was just the second coming of Greece albeit 300 years later.

Greece was different, far different than anything that had ever been seen before. The Greek armies destroyed everything in their path and no one could stand against them.

Yes, Rome was tough, don't get me wrong, but they could not light a candle to Alexander the Great and his military campaign, conquest, and complete domination of the Middle East. And, part of the difficulty Rome faced was due to the fact that the Middle Easterners thought of ways to defeat the Greecian tactics as time went on.

Better run for now, but I will return. :0)

Best wishes and be well - C.J. Sledgehammer


Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews 4 years ago from NORTH YORK,ONTARIO,CANADA

Ms Dee: This is very thought provoking. You obviously did your homework. Thank you.

Islam at present is a world threat, one that must be either tamed or controlled.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

CJ, yes, Greece with Alexander the Great's conquering expansion seemed more to assimilate the Romans into their language and culture. It really does look to me that Rome was an expansion of Greece's rule, rather than the other way around. Then later we see how Greece became part of the Ottoman Empire's rule from Turkey. I love all the historical points you have added here!


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Dave, I love hearing that your thinking has been provoked and, yes, I think we will see Turkey rise even more to the forefront as a consolidator of Islamic rule in the Middle East. I see them becoming a peacebroker between the Sunni and Shia nations providing a loosely united Islamic expansion. The one thing lacking in the above map of The Islamic Empire is the inclusion of Turkey and pockets of Europe.


Dave Mathews profile image

Dave Mathews 4 years ago from NORTH YORK,ONTARIO,CANADA

Where does Hitler and his idea to dominate the world fit into the grand picture?


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Dave, from what I've read, Islam is an extension of what Hitler began. It has adopted a number of his principles and many of the same tactics. Google the 'history of Hitler and Islam' and also Amin Al Husseini and you will see what I mean.


Jerami profile image

Jerami 4 years ago from Houston tx

Why do you believe that "1. Both Daniel and John see the last empire"?

Daniel saw the fourth kingdom to have dominion over the children of his people; That Hebrew Nation which came to their "end of days" from 135 to 150 AD.

When Jesus said that "This generation shall not pass till all thse things be fulfilled; He wasn't talking about any prophesy which had not been given yet.

John describes those events from the birth of Christ to the opening of the seven seals which do overlap those prophesy given in Daniel.

John didn't describe any kind of kingdom in the book of Revelation! If Chapter 13 had been placed in the bible immediately after the seventh seal had been opened and then the trumpets being sounded after the beast rises up out of the sea;people would have a different prospective.

This 1st beast in Rev. 13 isn't described as a kinglom, but as a false "universal" religious organization which persicutes and sometimes kills those that don't join it.

This beast receives from God, 42 (Prophetic) months to blaspheme the Lord.

the second beast models itself after the first. And then the trumpets begin (one at a time) being sounded.

before the 7th trumpet is blown, Satan is bound in the bottomless pit. this is getting too long so I'll stop here.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Jerami, Have you noted that Dan 7:7, Rev 13:1 and Rev 17:3 all refer to the last empire as having 10 horns?

Though the Hebrew Nation came to their "end of days" from 135 to 150 AD, this is not the world's last days spoken of in Revelation.


Jerami profile image

Jerami 4 years ago from Houston tx

I hope I don't apear to be arguementive, but simply expressing how I understand what is written concerning these things.

Daniel 7:23 GABRIEL gives the interpretation ..."Thus he said; The fourth beast shall be the FOURTH kingdom upon the earth ..." Fourth does mean the one which immediately follows the third.

In this instance in scripture "earth" is not refering to the planet earth. This is a translation glitch.

Rev 13:1 There is no mention of this beast being a kingdom. This is a religious organization which has power over the nations such as the RCC had power over all the kings of the different nations within the Roman Empire and the Bizentene empire OR Holy Roman Empire. A king had to be corinated by the pope; he would not become king without the popes consent.

17:3 is the same description as 12:3 which is said to be the devil and the woman which rides upon the dragon is the false religion which is drunk on the blood of the saints.

I believe These examples you mentioned here are three entirely different things/issues which should not be said to represent a single entity.


CJ Sledgehammer 4 years ago

I think it would be helpful to all, if they knew that in most cases, when the Bible uses the term "earth", it is referring to Israel and/or its people, not the world at-large. This leads to many misinterpretations and misunderstandings when trying to decifer Biblical eschatology (end time events).


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

CJ, hey, I'd wondered but I wasn't sure on whether "earth" meant Israel or Israel and surrounding region. Very pertinent information!


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Jerami, I do not take you as argumentative and a appreciate your seeking to know the truth. Agree, all prophesy is centered on Israel, thus 'earth' = Israel's region.

Clearly, Rev 13:1 refers back to and expands on Daniel's vision. It is in Daniel where the beast is referred to as an empire or kingdom. Agree, an empire with power over other kings/kingdoms. Yes, the Devil is empowering this beast empire to "wage war against the rest of her offspring", followers of Jesus, the saints (Rev 12:17). I, instead, believe there is much evidence that says these two entities in Daniel and Rev are one and the same.


Jerami profile image

Jerami 4 years ago from Houston tx

Thank you Ms Dee;

It is my heart felt belief that “THE” most important thing to consider when attempting to understand prophesy is to understand the timelines which are expressed, as to how long before a prophesy is to begin its fulfillment, and the duration in which it is to be fulfilled!

I also believe that when God is speaking to a Man God uses terminology that the man is familiar with.

When God gives a message to an angel to deliver to a Man, he uses terminology the angel is most familiar with. The angel then delivers the message exactly as it was given to him. Thus the confusion as to how long before that prophesy is to begin and the duration of it.

Without a timeline comparison of some kind, understanding of prophesy is not possible.

This is why Daniel 9:23 IS SO IMPORTANT “at the beginning of thy supplications THE COMMANDMENT CAME FORTH”

Daniel 9:26 “after 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off (killed)”. This is the only place in scripture which gives an equation comparing prophetic time to earthly time. 62 weeks in prophesy = 568 of our years.

I spent a decade attempting to prove this theory to be false. Instead I reached a new kind of understanding of the nature of prophesy and theology as a whole.

And thank you for your patience.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Jerami, You are most welcome. Your comments have reminded me of what has helped me. You may have seen this before, but in case you have not, see on YouTube: Daniels Timeline - Part 1 of 12 - Understanding End Time Prophecy/Tribulation Period.


debsjharrison profile image

debsjharrison 4 years ago

Hi Ms Dee, yesterday I got talking to a Muslim man on the tube. He had attended Muslim school and college his whole life. In the discussion he mentioned that he believed that the Kuram spoke of a ruler (they think it is our antichrist) who would have 'one eye' and a number on his head who would lislead many and rule the earth. They also believe that Jesus will return at the end (they didn't believe he actually died) but the Kuran doesn't say how he will return. Interesting!


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

debsjharrison, I too find it so very interesting that Islam in the Koran is expecting a Muslim messiah, the Mahdi, to come and, as you heard, to rule the earth...under Islam. From what I've read, there are some scholars who think this is the Christian antichrist.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA

I always appreciate your diligent study and sharing the results with us! I'm certainly open to what you've written ~ my mind, of course, thinks of 'Chrislam': the Pope (Rome) kissing the Qur'an -- united in the desire to have the one-world religion. Catholicism is known for its inquisition/crusades and Islam is likewise known for killing those who do not convert = "Convert or Die" is the message.

I considered the two horns of this ram butting every direction but east - horns represent kings/kingdoms - Sunni and Shiite, perhaps? Keep watching and sharing what God leads you to share, sister. Always blessed by your writings!!


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

JD, great to have your read and thoughts on this! I'm reading the book "Islam Uncensored" by Jeff King, president Int'l Christian Concern, where he interviews a variety of leaders knowledgeable about Islam; liberals, conservatives, Muslims, Jews, atheists, Christians, etc. I am even more convinced that Islam is more like the evil world-conquering beast in Revelation and the 4th kingdom in Daniel than any other organized entity in the world. Yes, even more than the evil done by Catholicism and its inquisitions and crusades. When their deeds and reach are compared, there is just no question. Rather than the 2 horns of the ram in Daniel being Sunni and Shiite, I take that to be as Dan 8:20 says, the Medes and Persians. However, I do see the 4th kingdom's two legs of Daniel's statue as representing these two opposing main branches of Islam.


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA

I think I can't put the head, chest, belly/thighs, legs and feet (five kingdoms) parallel to four, in that the last kingdom is the fifth (a mixture of iron and clay). If the fourth is the IRON kingdom, the fifth is more than just iron, amen? What are your thoughts on this?


Judah's Daughter profile image

Judah's Daughter 4 years ago from Roseville, CA

I always thought the feet were representative of a fifth kingdom, but it looks like they are the final part of the iron legs (the fourth, final kingdom of man). That's fascinating.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

JD, you've arrived at the same conclusion that I have: The "kingdom" referred to in Dan 2:41 as a "divided kingdom" is part of the description of the fourth kingdom that starts in 2:40. This division is not only represented by the two legs, but also the two feet and ten toes. Always appreciate dialoguing with you!


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

Hello, we learned in History and Latin language and every European knew that Rome is on seven hills.

I have to verify but I think that Iraq was also part of Roman territory.

In Europe we believed that woman harlot is Roman Church meant unfaithful to Word of God, violating it. It controlled many kingdoms and mixed wine with blood. Additionally Roman Church has similarity with Islam. BTW I love Catholics but I hate sin and religious systems.

Today there is talking a lot about resurrection of Holy Roman Empire.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Hi Vladimir, Roman territory went as far as about the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, but not beyond. So it did not cover all of the Persian Empire.

Yes, there is much tradition that says the fourth kingdom is Rome and much talk here, in the U.S. too, that it is rising again. I have heard it suggested that it could be Rome and Islam together. However, the reasons I explain in this hub article are enough to call this into question.


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

Absolutely, I hope I am nor right and I would be first to repent. I lived and was born in Europe and I experience enough and had the reason to hate. But I am new creation and I love on purpose. *** What I meant was that Mahdi will come probably from Iraq. But there are two persons which we do not like one is Antichrist and other is his prophet. There may be some combination.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Vladimir, How wonderful to hear what God has done in your life!! Oh, now I understand better your first comment. Yes, I too understand their expected Mahdi is likely to come from Iraq. I understand from the prophet Isaiah that the Antichrist is called the 'Assyrian', which could be northern Iraq or eastern Turkey. So I wonder, too, if the two will be seen as the same personabe. Right, and then there is his false prophet.

Also, previously I neglected to respond to the fact of 7 hills. I do not recall exactly, but I read somewhere how that can be construed as somewhere in the Islamic world. Forgetting off hand, though, whether it was Saudi Arabia or Turkey.


CJ Sledgehammer 4 years ago

Let us not forget that Jerusalem was built on seven mountains (mounts) long before Rome and Constantinople were built on seven hills.

Best wishes and be well - C.J. Sledgehammer


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Hi CJ, Yes, that is right. And the antichrist kingdom, the fourth kingdom in Daniel's vision, mirrors in many ways the kingdom Christ will usher in when he comes again. The seven hills/mountains are where the major city of both kingdoms reside.


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

I know about original Jerusalem (Salem) was built on one mountains and it is Mt. Moriah. Can you tell me names if I am wrong, please Mr CJ?


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

I copy for Wikipedia this: Jerusalem

Jerusalem ... thus leading to the suggestion that the name refers to the fact that the city sits on two hills.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Vladimir, Another interpretation of the seven hills of Rev 17:9 could also be seven nations, as they are actually likened to the seven heads of the beast.


CJ Sledgehammer 4 years ago

Vladimir:

I am a little pressed for time, so to save a moment or two, I pasted this information from scholarly text called, "The Seven Hills of Jerusalem" - By Ernest L. Martin, Ph.D., 2000

"The City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles. In the Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer, an 8th century midrashic narrative (section 10), the writer mentioned without commentary (showing that the understanding was well known and required no defense) that "Jerusalem is situated on seven hills" (recorded in The Book of Legends, edited by Bialik and Ravnitzky, p. 371, paragraph 111). And, so it was. Those "seven hills" are easy to identify.

If one starts with the Mount of Olives just to the east of the main City of Jerusalem (but still reckoned to be located within the environs of Jerusalem), there are three summits to that Mount of Olives:

The northern summit (hill) is called Scopus [Hill One],

The middle summit (hill) was called Nob [Hill Two],

The highest point of Olivet itself, and the southern summit (hill) was called in the Holy Scriptures the "Mount of Corruption" or "Mount of Offence" [Hill Three] (II Kings 23:13).

On the middle ridge between the Kedron and the Tyropoeon Valleys there was (formerly) in the south "Mount Zion" [Hill Four] (the original "Mount Zion" and not the later southwest hill that was later called by that name),

The "Ophel Mount" [Hill Five],

To the north of that the "Rock" around which "Fort Antonia" was built [Hill Six],

And finally, there was the southwest hill itself [Hill Seven] that finally became known in the time of Simon the Hasmonean as the new 'Mount Zion.' "

It is also important to note that in the days of Nebuchadnezzar, Babylon was also known as the "City on seven hills."

So, this makes 4 ancient cities, that I know of, that were deliberately built on 7 hills, and I am sure there are more.

1) Jerusalem

2) Babylon

3) Rome

4) Constantinople

Hope this helps.

Best wishes, behave, and be well - C.J. Sledgehammer


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

I was in Jerusalem and never counted hills, ha. Blessings.


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

It is very interesting. My Jewish friends confirmed it. The problem I have is that context of Bible is not talking about Jerusalem, which is not consider as a whore, but favor city whether Jesus will be King. I came from Europe and had not available US literature, we thought it was Rome. Now Rome is raising up. Babylon portrays false religion. But not existing any more but Rome does.

The pale horse will come after white horse (according to Revelation) after Antichrist will arrive. The pail hoarse in Greek is "chloros," which means green. Just my thoughts.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Vladimir, I take the first horse to a conquering entity but not necessarily the antichrist. The fourth, pale, horse I see as clearly the antichrist that arises from the conquering entity, just as in Revelation 17:11 an 8th comes up from within the 7th and in Daniel 7:8 a little 'horn' comes up from among the others.


CJ Sledgehammer 4 years ago

Vladimir:

You said, "The problem I have is that context of Bible is not talking about Jerusalem, which is not consider as a whore, but favor city whether Jesus will be King."

Truth is, you are operating under the assumption that Christ is not referring to Jerusalem as the "Great Whore", whereas, it is very possible.

Please keep in mind that Jesus is the King of the New Jerusalem, not of ancient Jerusalem or of the physical Jerusalem of Israel today. As Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world."

May God be with you and yours - C.J. Sledgehammer


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

CJ and Vladimir, I am convinced that the "Great Whore" that Christ smashes/destroys upon His second coming--as depicted in Daniel 2:34-35 by the big stone that smashes the feet of the statute--is of the 4th kingdom; not Jersusalem. It is the nations who rise up against Jerusalem and take half the city (Zech 14:2) and then Christ returns to the Mount of Olives to fight those nations (14:3-4) before they have completely taken Jerusalem. A remnant will "flee" or escape (14:5). I think the stone smashing the statue is Christ's second coming and His defeat of the nations. So the nations of Zech 14:2 are the 4th kingdom--those that surround Israel who come up against her.

As you CJ have pointed out, however, it is not that Christ comes to reign in the current earthly Jerusalem. I think He comes to save a remnant--those who believe--from it, and then the spiritual Israel (as opposed to physical Israel) reign with Him in a new Jerusalem; the new Jerusalem of Revelation 21.


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

Hey, I agree mostly with Ms. Dee.

Our earth is real not spiritual. God is the owner. Only sinners occupy it. But we are here believers too. He is our Lord of the Church. Satan is prince of this world. Jesus will come first and appears in the clouds with saints. We will be cough up and meet the Lord in clouds. (There is no mentioned Church after Chapter 3 in Book of Revelation). It will be before Great Tribulation. The second coming of the Lord He will come to Mount of Olive as He left. He will come again to Jerusalem through Golden Gate. Before He will speak the WORD and foreign armies in Meggido will be self destroyed. Jesus will sit on the David's Throne. One Thousand years reign will begin. Blood of army is real. Death is real. In New Jerusalem will be no deaths or blood.

JC I did not know you are not Christian. You are not familiar with numerous predictions that Israel will be dispersed and then return back. Decades years ago there were Messianic Jews only in thousands, now is five hundred thousands. Entire Israel will be saved. But first it will be hard for Jews.

You do not have slightest idea what Roman religion made to us (in Europe) killing in past, torturing (inquisition), burning Bibles. Then is Slovakia they took Jews and handed to Germans for money. They killed many. The teaching of Bible is twisted, worshiping statues. Believe me I do love people but hating sin and system.

I never seen historical murdering by Jerusalem Jewish of saints as Roman whore did.

This is the way I see it. Excuse me my English.


Vladimir Uhri profile image

Vladimir Uhri 4 years ago from HubPages, FB

CJ Sledgehammer, I do apology if I was judgmental. Please, forgive me.


wrenfrost56 profile image

wrenfrost56 4 years ago from U.K.

Fascinating hub on the fourth kingdom and excellent points made and useful points for use of reference, great work. :)


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

wrenfrost56, so glad you found this so useful!


CJ Sledgehammer 4 years ago

Vladimir:

You said, "JC I did not know you are not Christian. You are not familiar with numerous predictions that Israel will be dispersed and then return back."

-----------------------

Yes, I am a rock-solid disciple of Christ standing on firm ground, but I do not endorse, entertain, condone, or promote much of the misinformation propagated from many of the wayward "Christian" churches today, where the "word-faith movement" and "prosperity preaching" are now king.

Yes, I am familiar with many false teachings, errant misgivings, and popular misunderstandings in main-stream "Christianity" today. From what I have seen, many "Christians" are more loyal to "cotton-candy" theology than they are to the real Word of God.

To talk about the dispersion of the Jews as if it did not happen already, is taking history into contempt. Part of my discouragement with "Christians" today, is they do not know their history and they have not done their research. It makes it very difficult communicating truth to them, because they would rather have their ears tickled. They are willing to love God and follow Him, just as long as He never ventures out of their comfort zone. Truth, therefore, is not on the side of the faint-hearted.

Vladimir, of course I forgive you. You need to understand, however, that I am not your average "Sunday" Christian, but my faith and love for Christ Jesus and His heavenly Father runs deep.

So, the real question is whether I am a disciple of Christ Jesus, or what has now become known as a contemporary "Christian". I don't know if I would be considered a "Christian" to many main-streamers today, nor would I want to. I believe Christianity has strayed far from the path of righteousness over the past 170 years, and through spiritual compromise - it is no longer what it used to be.

Best wishes and be well - C.J. Sledgehammer


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 4 years ago from Texas, USA Author

CJ, I love your explanation--thank you!


Highvoltagewriter profile image

Highvoltagewriter 3 years ago from Savannah GA.

I also believe that the Muslims will be involved in Satan's final deception...However, in this day and age, that view is not politically correct! But I never have been very politically correct! Also , thank you for all great insights here and in your answers!


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 3 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Highvoltagewriter, nice to hear from one of like mind, even when we are politically incorrect :).


Pool Of Thoughts profile image

Pool Of Thoughts 3 years ago from Southern Ohio

Well, I am certainly not as sharp as some of you when it comes to history and dates, and kingdoms, but I like the way you all respect one another. It encourages one to add a comment even though I'm out of your league so to speak.

Ms Dee, in your #5 point that you make in your hub, "Mortally wounded - It has had a seeming mortal wound but then heals, causing all to marvel. It was, is not and will come. It is called an eighth king, though it comes from the one of the previous seven." sheds much light on the subject.

I believe Rome was the fourth kingdom, not be disagreeable, and if I may hit a few highlights maybe you can see it. Pagan Rome ruled the world, was the instrument through which the religious leaders of the day killed the very God they claimed to worship, destroyed Jerusalem, and persecuted all who opposed their authority.

Then Rome was dealt a deadly wound and appeared to fall (here's the deception of the evil thing), only it merely changed its mask. Rome is still VERY much alive and ruling. Just how much will be made manifest in the very near future. Pagan Rome became Papal Rome. Read Alexander Hislop's The Two Babylons(circa 1850s).

For over a thousand years during the dark ages Rome was drunk with the blood of every martyr...and still is in some countries. To oppose the Roman Universal church was instant death. Read the Foxe's Book of the Martyrs. During the reformation she (the Great Whore) lost her absolute power through the promise of God to restore the Truth back in the last days. Only there were daughters born to this Great Whore. The Bible says that she was a mother of harlots. The very men whom God raised up to protest and denounce that horrible thing had followers who turned right around and organized themselves like the mother church did. Now we have over a thousand blasphemous names all claiming to be the purest or original church, and we see God moving right on with that little flock who will follow Him (The WORD).

All of these organizations, and world religions (Muslims too) will come under the headship of Rome. The mark of the beast isn't coming, its here. The manifestation of that mark will be in the future, but the marking is going on right now. When you reject the Holy Ghost, your receive the mark of the beast. When the church gets the political and financial power secured, then will come the Great Tribulation unlike anything that has ever been before. She has done it before and she'll do it again. Many of these brothers on here do not see a compound meaning in scripture.

I have many scriptures and things but I thought I would hit the highlights. It would take me a long time to put it together like you all do.

Perhaps I'll write a hub on this myself to avoid cluttering Ms Dee's comments section. God bless you all.


CJ Sledgehammer 3 years ago

David: Welcome to Hubpages! I think you will find some wonderful people and kindred spirits here, but you will also find a hoard of godless and wayward souls, who disrespect everything you stand for.

Please be careful when using the "Forums" - it is a hornet's nest and the best way for a Christian to get banned. The wayward souls over there cannot tolerate reproach or godly living...so be careful.

Now, on to business. Historically speaking, Rome does not fit Daniel's description very well, yet we do know Jesus referred to Rome as being the "Abomination that causes desolation".

Forgive me, but my computer is acting up again. I'll have to come back later. - C.J.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 3 years ago from Texas, USA Author

PoolOfThoughts, I am pleased to hear yours and I once thought as you describe here with regards to Rome as the fourth kingdom. Since you read this hub, I added another book--an excellent study by Joel Richardson, "Mideast Beast". I am fully convinced that a mideast beast fits the scripture prophecies much better than a european beast does. (This beast is what the fourth kingdom becomes.) Richardson explains why the Roman destruction of Jerusalem is not really done by Rome, itself, and how the 9th reason in this hub that the fourth empire is not Rome, but instead the Turkish Ottoman Empire, makes much more sense--basing it on scripture and historical context. I highly recommend this study. There are many more scriptures that make this very clear, and without having to twist interpretations, at all. I hope you will get his book and see for yourself :).


Pool Of Thoughts profile image

Pool Of Thoughts 3 years ago from Southern Ohio

CJ, Thanks for the welcome and the warning. I will try to bite my tongue and season my words with love. I don't have much time to talk on forums but I find it interesting and informative at times.

Ms Dee, thank you for your comments and the nice article. If you don't mind me saying, I don't believe its the european or the middle east. I believe its the United States. In Rev 13 it speaks of another beast rising up out of the earth (not seas, or thickness and multitudes of people) but out of nearly nothing and had two horns like a lamb(freedom of religion, etc.) and later spake as a dragon. This beast exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 3 years ago from Texas, USA Author

PoolOfThoughts, I absolutely enjoy hearing your thoughts (even though I don't always agree)! Sure hoping you get that book somehow. It presents from a very solid exegetical foundation and interpretive principles and is very eye-opening.


Sojourner1234 profile image

Sojourner1234 3 years ago from Ohio

Ms Dee, this is an excellent study! I have heard this preached on, by a pastor who knows the Bible well, in a three part series with the same conclusions. I appreciate your factual approach, allowing the logic of the prophecies and passages drive this pursuit of truth.

PoolOfThoughts, you already have some respect from me, just being a fellow Ohioan :) I would like to know how you came to the conclusion that the US would be the fourth kingdom; you gave a quick indication of why, but just curious what other info might have led you to this outcome. Thanks!


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 3 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Sojourner, What a confirming comment! Thank you for posting this. Makes me wonder who the pastor is that you refer to. Yes, one needs to know the Bible very well and knowledge over the span of history in the Middle East. (Guess what! I was born and raised in Ohio! :).)


Sojourner1234 profile image

Sojourner1234 3 years ago from Ohio

You are quite welcome Ms Dee. The pastor is actually my father, Chuck Marshall, and he pastors a church here in Ohio. I hope that doe not seem to bias the outcome of what I think of the study (as unfortunately many children do not have a high opion of their father, and sadly there are many fathers who do not give them a good reason to). I happen to believe my father is quite wise and he is (factually) very studied in the Bible. His opinions come from years of study and applied knowledge.

I will say also that the understanding of the fourth kingdom does involved understanding of both the Bible and history... many miss the historical signs and the present day signals of this perspective.

Another Ohioan! That's great! I think it is a very good place to be born and raised myself. God bless!


Pool Of Thoughts profile image

Pool Of Thoughts 3 years ago from Southern Ohio

@Sojourner1234, I never said, or not intentionally anyway, that the 4th kingdom was the United States. I said that it is Rome....Papal Rome, religious Rome. Same spirit just wearing a different mask. If you like to study history then I believe you will see what this Papacy rule done to those who were spirit filled all through the dark ages until the reformation and even continues on today. Rome ruled the world through religion....and it will again. Satan is very religious and cunning. The Anti-Christ is religious, especially masked as a Christian religion with a geniune Holy Ghost anointing (false Christs {anointed ones}will deceive all whose names were not written in the Lamb's book of Life before the foundation of the world) casting out devils, doing many wonderful works, just like Judas did in the ministry of Christ. Catholicism and Protestantism is all the same spirit. Mother and daughters, and I will just write a blog on it if the Lord is willing and stop right there. I touched on some of this in a forum post somewhere...just check on my feeds I guess because I can't remember what it is called right now...LOL God bless you all.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 3 years ago from Texas, USA Author

POT, Since the 4th kingdom in the statue of Daniel 2 and the 4th beast of Daniel 7 refer to the same last empire, we are taking you to mean you think the 4th kingdom is the U.S. when you said 8 days ago "I don't believe its the european or the middle east. I believe its the United States." Maybe you'd like to clarify if this is not what you meant.


Sojourner1234 profile image

Sojourner1234 3 years ago from Ohio

That is what I thought you meant as well, perhaps I misunderstood. Am following this hub though to see any additional input. Thanks!


Pool Of Thoughts profile image

Pool Of Thoughts 3 years ago from Southern Ohio

Yes, I see now what sounds like I contradicted myself . I should have made myself clearer. Sorry about that. Okay, please notice in the last part of Daniel 2 what the vision shows.

Daniel 2: 40-45

40 † And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

41 † And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 † And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 † And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 † And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 † Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Notice what is said about this last beast. It starts out saying that it shall be strong as iron. It breaks in pieces and subdues all things. Then, it points to the feet and toes. The kingdom shall be divided. It shall be partly strong and partly broken. They shall mingle themselves with the seed of men. (It’s not all in one nation anymore like it was in pagan Rome) It’s religious Rome now and has mingled itself among all nations. Talk about cruelty and power. There is nothing more cruel than that religious spirit of the dragon (Satan), especially when he is given power to force all to worship or be killed (Papal Rome).

Now, in Revelation 12 - I won’t quote it here but just read all seventeen verses. The child is Jesus Christ that this dragon tries to devour. Who issued the decree to kill all the children to try to kill Jesus Christ? Herod the Great, king of Judea appointed by the Roman Senate. Rome.

Notice in Daniel 7 when it describes the 4th beast. How many horns does that beast have? Ten.

In Revelation 13:1 we see the same four beasts that are in Daniel 7 (yes, I believe it is the same as what is described in Daniel 2 also by the way) except they are all combined into one. Daniel saw them at the beginning of the Gentile ruling as 4 separate beasts and John sees them at the end of the Gentile ruling as 1 beast. Not only that, but instead of describing this horrible, terrible, 4th beast with great iron teeth he begins talking about the Dragon. It has ten horns, a mouth speaking great things, persecutes the saints, devours or controls the commerce of the whole world etc. Compare to Daniel 7: 20-25

Now, this is Rome, not the United States. However, in Rev 13:11, just ten verses later, it begins to speak of ANOTHER beast that comes up out of the earth and has two horns like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon. It exerciseth all the power of the first beast (not the head of gold or lion beast but the one mentioned in verse 1 of Rev 13) before him which is Rome. This beast had power to give “life” unto the image (organized religion, world council of churches) of the beast and cause all who would not worship it to be killed and many other things about this second beast that you can read in Rev 13. This one that gives power unto the image is the United States. I don’t have time or space to do it justice but I will try later on perhaps. Papal Rome is the mother of all organized religion, Mystery Babylon. That idea of a forced religion started in Genesis with Nimrod and has slithered its way all through the scriptures to Revelation. Rome is Satan’s (The Dragon, or Serpent) seat now.. Muslims or Hindus etc. will never deceive anyone that knows the scriptures, but Rome will; and already has. This 4th kingdom will DECEIVE the whole world. I’m just skipping the tops of it and cannot do it justice here. Does that make it clearer? I hope so. Just let me know and I’ll try to do better sometime. God bless you all!


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 3 years ago from Texas, USA Author

POT, A few quick things. "It's not one nation anymore" can also be said for the Ottoman Empire transitioning to the Islamic Empire. The beast in Revelation cannot be Rome resurrected, per my reason #3 above. Also, Mystery Babylon could just as easily be Mecca in Saudi Arabia. All that you say about the Roman Empire can be said for the Islamic Empire, and even more so. Particularly today. So, I'm saying I'm not convinced by your points regarding Rome.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 3 years ago from Texas, USA Author

POT, I have a little more time now to respond further on two things you say in your comment. One is that Rev 2:13 says Pergamum (in W. Turkey, a part of the Islamic Empire) is Satan's seat. The other is that when you say "This one that gives power unto the image is the United States", it seems you are saying the second beast of Rev 13 is the U.S., per Rev 13:15. If so, this does not make sense to me for one thing as in 13:13 this beast is a person who will "perform great signs, even ausing fir to ome down from heaven". It makes more sense to me that this is the Islamic Jesus that Islam says is to come.


Pool Of Thoughts profile image

Pool Of Thoughts 3 years ago from Southern Ohio

Ms Dee, It is obvious that Babylon was the seat of Satan and is where the worship of a polytheistic god started. When the Medes and Persians took Babylon the priest-king Attalus fled the city and went to Pergamos with his priests and sacred mysteries. Thus Pergamos was the seat of Satan. He set up his kingdom there outside the Roman empire. A succession of priest kings followed Attalus until the reign of Attalus III who, for unknown reasons, willed the kingdom to Rome. Julius Caesar took both the kingdom physical and spiritual and became Pontiff Maximus of the Babylonish religion and was priest-king. This title was given to each successive emperor until Maximus III who refused it. It was then at this time that the pope took the headship that the emperor rejected and we still have a pontiff in the world today and he is truly Pontiff Maximus. In Revelation 17 God no longer refers to Pergamos as Satan's Seat nor does he state that it is where Satan dwells. The throne room is no longer in Pergamos, but it is in MYSTERY Babylon. It isn't Babylon, but MYSTERY Babylon. That is where the "man" sits that has a triple crown, usurped the position of Christ (who alone is the mediator and can forgive sins), exalts himself above all that is called God (The WORD by claiming they have the right to change it anytime), and is in the city (Vatican) that the woman (church) sat on who was drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. This is where the "person" is that will become the very incarnate devil after the saints of God are raptured.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 3 years ago from Texas, USA Author

POT, I see you are saying the 2nd beast of Rev 13 is a person, also. (Though it seems you are no longer saying it is the U.S.) I agree that in the end times, Mystery Babylon will be Satan's seat and Babylon is not literal Babylon at that point. But Attalus III was before the revelation was given to John, where it then says Pergamum is Satan's seat. Also, Roman rule extended to the Eurphrates only for a period of months, a fraction of its 2600 year history in the Middle East, so insignificant. In addition, when Rome took rule of lands, though its' military had the great strength to crush rebellions, rather than destroying the culture, abolishing its religion and imposing a new language, it generally tolerated these things while adding law, building roads and infrastructure—creating order. This is in contradiction to the destructive nature of Daniel's forth empire.


Pool Of Thoughts profile image

Pool Of Thoughts 3 years ago from Southern Ohio

Ms Dee, I appreciate your views and realize that the importance of these things are to point the true believer towards the necessity of having the Holy Ghost. Without Him, we'll be deceived. Period. You didn't post my last post so I am not sure exactly what I wrote that gave you another contradicting opinion. The spirit of anti-Christ will become incarnate in a man. Blessings,

David


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 3 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Hi POT! Amen, we need God's Spirit to guide us into all truth. It seems there is something wrong with my Comments notification in that it now waits almost 24 hrs to notify me of new comments, so that I can approve them, or not (I have to filter them due to some problems in the past.) I only found your comment of two hours ago because I came to the actual hub to check. I've now approved your provious ones, though for some reason they are not showing here yet. I'm sorry for this delay.


Ronald D Bruno 2 years ago

It is most evident that Islam, throughout its history, has been anti-Jew and anti-Christian. They have spread their religion by force not love, warring over territories, occupying them and forcing conversions through exile, torture and death. It should be no surprise that Islam is the obvious current threat to Israel and the world and not some revised Roman Empire (European Union, NATO or United Nations).

I have been convinced for many years that the Beast with seven heads and ten horns is Islam. Three horns are plucked and one emerges. It's interesting that Mubarek, Qudhafi and a third leader (Assad) seem to qualify as these three horns. If Assad is not dethroned, then maybe Bin Laden would qualify as one of them. Even though he wasn't a head of a nation, he was actually worse, a leader of worldwide Islamic terrorism. One little horn will soon emerge among the remaining leaders within Islam that will unite them. We are now blind to who he is. Maybe he must suffer an apparent deadly blow before Satan can possess him -- then we'll know, when he demonstrates his supernatural powers.

It would be speculative to label Obama as the little horn, who comes out of nowhere inconspicuously _ seeks to change the law and times _ fulfill his father's dreams (who was a Muslim) and takes over before his time is up! He has been instrumental in the unraveling of the Middle East and with Iran's development of nukes by passively doing nothing. He's a Teflon president who sits back, talks about how much better life is and will be while playing golf, attending fund raisers, giving us speeches filled with lies and polishing his Nobel Prize that he didn't earn. Someone would have to supernaturally empower him so he would fit the bill, cause he's to weak in his own strength. Although the 17 trillion dollar debt, Obamacare and his executive orders have done enough damage to collapse this country ... we'll just have to wait and see how all this unfolds.

Aside from that speculation; whatever Iran, Russia, N. Korea or other terrorist organizations have in mind, they would need to act before Obama's term ends, to take advantage of his weakness -- so be forewarned. And that my friends will be an introduction to the Great Tribulation period. Hold onto your faith!


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 2 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Excellent description of some possible interpretations! Much of this is what I have wondered, myself. I would add China to your list in last paragraph, too. Yes, we must hold on to our faith! :)


kenneth avery profile image

kenneth avery 2 years ago from Hamilton, Alabama

Ms Dee,

"When gentiles shall surround and trod around the city of Jerusalem." This says a lot without saying so much.

I will tell you the truth. I really love this hub.

This is an excellent piece of writing. Amazing work. I loved the way you presented your topiic. Wonderful graphics.

This piece was helpful, informative and very interesting.I was glad to vote Up and all of the choices, but Funny.

You are certainly a gifted writer. Please keep up the fine work.

Sincerely,

Kenneth Avery, Hamilton, Alabama


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 2 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Kenneth, such encouraging feedback! I'm very glad you found this study helpful. :-)


Ronald D. Bruno 2 years ago

I'm glad someone else sees Islam as the final Beast. They've been anti- Israel and anti-Christian for a long time. Rome and Italy is Catholic. Most of Europe apart from the secular would claim Christianity as the #1 religion and so would US, South America, Australia, Latin America. Islam is the threat, a beast with seven heads and ten horns. Three horns were plucked (Mubarek, Qudafi, and soon Assad). Hussein was plucked and so was Bin Laden, although been Osama wasn't a ruler, he certainly was a leader of an Islamic terrorist group. So if Assad is not removed, one of these other two could certainly fit the bill. One little horn will immerge (one of the remaining seven) and he will rise. Maybe it's this ISIS leader? The Arab spring movement happened so fast, within six months, many countries were in revolt. This is no coincidence, the Beast is part Iron and part clay. It has strong parts and weak parts and is in itself not in unity. But they all are against Israel and Christianity?


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 2 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Ronald, Yes, it makes so much more sense, doesn't it. I'm watching to see if the little horn immerges from the area of the historical Assyrian empire.


Jerami profile image

Jerami 2 years ago from Houston tx

For many reasons I'm not able to get on line very often. any way ...

Just want to give you something to think about.

First I want to say I believe Islam is the beast mentioned in Rev. 13:11.

BUT ,, If it is the other beast (with 7 heads and ten horns),

It came into existence with Mohamed (around 600 ad). The Lord gave it 42 months to blaspheme. This would mean that 42 months in prophesy is a greater period of time than the 1400 years that it has been in existence.

In 538 BC Daniel received the vision as described in C.9. .. v 23 , ... at the beginning of thy supplications (a few days previously) the commandment came forth . V.25 from the going forth of the commandment it shall be 69 weeks unto the Messiah the Prince, and it shall be 62 weeks until they kill the Messiah. This would mean that 62 weeks in prophesy would be about 568 of our years.

I believe the prophesy given in Daniel pertain to the events leading up to the crucifixion of the Messiah, and the great tribulation leading up to the the end of days for the Hebrew people as a nation. A tribulation such as will never be seen again. This ( as will never be seen again) does not imply the end of the world as a whole.

Last thought for the night. The beast rises up out of the sea, Satan gives it his power and seat, ... Satan is bound in the bottomless pit for 1000 years, and when he gets out, When the sixth bowl is poured out, the devil, the beast and false prophet are seen in the dried up river Euphrates. Rev. 16:12. and spirits coming out of their mouths bring the kings of the earth together for the Last Great battle.

Why do we assume these three are co-conspirators ?

What if they are all three opposing each other and their fighting each other engulfs the whole earth?

What if ?? The more we try to prevent it, the more we become involved fighting it, the more inevitable it becomes.


Ms Dee profile image

Ms Dee 2 years ago from Texas, USA Author

Jerami,

Your above understanding of Daniel's prophecy highlights how absolutely vital it is to understand the principle of duality in Biblical prophecy--or double fulfillment. Many early followers of Jesus did not realize His Olivet teaching was a dual prophecy and so expected His Second Coming would occur after the destruction of Jerusalem. When He didn't return at that time, this left a number of them very disillusioned and even stopped believing, leaving many congregations to fall into apostasy at the end of the first century.

Many, or I'd say most, Biblical prophecies have both a short-term and long-term fulfillment. The long-term fulfillment symbolize a major, often eschatological event that will occur later in the end times.

One of the best examples of dual fulfillment is the Olivet discourse in Matthew, Mark and Luke. The siege of Jerusalem, when Antiochus Epiphanes’ sacrifice of a pig on the altar (the Abomination of Desolation) and the destruction of the Second Temple by Titus Flavius are seen as only partial fulfillments of the prophecy (also predicted in the book of Daniel). We can clearly see that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD was similar to the Great Tribulation that is occur in the time immediately preceding Jesus' second coming. He was actually predicting that the Abomination of Desolation which occurred under Antiochus Epiphanes would also occur again during when the final antichrist comes. So Jesus actually prophesied two events in His Olivet discourse. Jerusalem’s destruction and the Great Tribulation.

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