Why don't Mormons drink coffee

Sometimes the Lord tells people to do something that doesn't quite make sense at the time, but perhaps many generations will pass before they realize the reason. When the law of Moses was instituted, there came with it a strict standard of what to eat and what not to eat, along with many other various forms of daily observance that alligned the children of Israel with the commands of God. One of the facits of living by the Word of Wisdom is to abstain from the consumption of Hot drinks. Later on in the history of the church President Brigham Young added that Hot drinks were to be interperted to mean coffee and Tea which were the average hot drinks of the time.

So there are a lot of people who are trying to say that Coffee and Tea are actually good for you but there have been several reports and studies showing that hot drinks in particular can be partial to causing such health defects as esophogal, and bladder cancer. besides the release of several hundreds of chemicals during the roasting process, I would rather focus on what I believe to be a truely prophetic council. That council is found in one of the opening sentences of the Word of Wisdomm found in D&C 89;

"Behold, verly, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consiquence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you and fore warn you by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation."

 

What I see about this revelation concerning the "Evil designs of conspiring men" is not nessicarily what we put in our bodies, but what the entire format of selling coffee is turning into. That is the selling of espresso's, Latte's, and other various forms of coffee products by the exploitation of women. I can't help but notice that there are Espresso stands poping up around my town that have resorted to luring consumers into buying their products through the guise of Sex appeal. Recently one of the local shops was fined for crossing the line between the counties deemed acceptance of what is considered erotic entertainment, and what is considered prostitution.

Where I live this subject is talked about frequently in the newspapers. People are fighting about it fiercely all the time, and there seems to always be a story of local protest, or advocacy for selling a peek at girl parts with your morning caffine fix. To me it is the fulfillment of a prophecy made over 100 years ago.

This is just a tipical sign of the times to most, but I can't help but wonder if 100 years ago people would have thought that the carnal beast of the world would be fueled by the makers and sellers of "Hot drinks"

There are several reasons why Mormons do not drink coffee, for me it is the same as when the Lord told the Hebrews not to eat pork chops. not nessicarily just because it is bad for you, but because he wants us to follow his commandments.

So think about that the next time you decide to frequent your local topless esperesso stand despite the fact that you may have a loving family at home. And go on thinking that it won't hurt anyone to have a look.

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Comments 52 comments

eovery profile image

eovery 6 years ago from MIddle of the Boondocks of Iowa

Thanks for letting other know in the plain and easy language that you use.

Keep on hubbing!


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 6 years ago from washington Author

Thanks for commenting, nudie ladies are tearing down the sanctity of mariages, by selling coffee.


Alayne Fenasci profile image

Alayne Fenasci 6 years ago from Louisiana

I admire the way you have presented this. Personally, I have different beliefs on the issue of coffee (though only partially). But I hope you don't mind if I agree with you for a paragraph or two.

Having studied the food guidelines in the Old Testament, I can certainly agree that many of the tenets were given without complete understanding from the people to whom they were given. In more modern times, we are beginning to see many of the reasons for the guidelines given there. Many are actually health principles with (medical science is discovering) concrete reasoning behind them. It amazes me that most foods that were forbidden are now found to be harmful to the body in some way, and the permitted ones are healthier. For example, if you're lost in the wilderness somewhere struggling to survive and don't know what kinds of fish are safe to eat, the Mosaic law about clean and unclean fish is a safe bet.

Following what God instructs doesn't always make sense at the time, but if you are convicted by God's spirit to follow it anyway, there is a reason for it. You may never know the reason, or you may look up one day and realize there's a naked lady standing over your coffee.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 6 years ago from washington Author

There are already naked women serving coffee in my town, asside from the already scandili-clad bikini baristas in the latte shops that keep springing up all over the place.

As the guys at work say, the coffee tastes like dung but they're not there for the consumables! Thanks for reading.


flread45 profile image

flread45 6 years ago from Montana

Jack Mormons drink coffee


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 6 years ago from washington Author

Some do. When I was a Jack Mormon I just drank a lot of Beer. But never coffee........


Ron 6 years ago

i drink mormon blood instead, much less evil.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 6 years ago from washington Author

That can't be healthy. I prefer soda, less chances of conrtacting a disease.


gg 6 years ago

Sorry, but I can't take people seriously who misspell things.

Also, coffee (in moderate amounts) has been proven healthy.

If you google 'benefits of caffeine,' you'll see.

And, do you seriously believe a church leader who says 'no coffee?' Interpretations are always shaky, and I find this absurd. If this isn't man made religion, I don't know what is.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 6 years ago from washington Author

If you cant take me seriously why then take the time to comment?

Also, I don't drink coffee because of it's health risks, infact I never implied that the caffeine was the bad part, still caffeine is the most popular “legal” addictive stimulating drug in the world. People become emotionally and physically dependent on their “morning fix” and, over time, develop a tolerance, generally needing more and more just to get through the day. Some scientists say it’s as addictive as heroine or cocaine.

never the less I abstain from coffee and tea for the same reasons that the children of Israel abstain from porkchops, not because it's bad for us, but because a true prophet of God has been inspired to direct us towards a spiritual path, and it is a true principle that anything which is addictive, robs the children of God from their potential for spiritual progression.


Sif 6 years ago

Just ya know...your all wacky!


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 6 years ago from washington Author

Yeah, but so is the President.


jelly 5 years ago

There are more health benefits than there are risks of drinking caffeine. Also, that hasn't been the Starbucks logo for about 20 years. It is a mythological creature, and there is nothing sexual about the logo. The idea that Starbucks is trying to use sex to sell their coffee is so far fetched and ridiculous! If I didn't believe you were serious, I would be laughing hysterically.

If the Word of Wisdom says to abstain from the consumption of hot drinks, than why was it ok for the early Utah Mormon settlers to drink Mormon tea? Mormon tea is the common name for the Ephedra plant. Obviously there are much larger health risks to consuming ephedra than there are with coffee or tea, so why wasn't that included in the forbidden foods? Does it not "lure consumers through the guise of sex appeal"?


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

Although I disagree with you about the health risks of Caffeine consumption, there is nothing mentioned in LDS doctrine about consumption of Caffeine inparticular, nor did I mention it in this article.

I know for a fact that Star bucks still puts that picture on some of their products, but that's neither here nor there. I used that picture to illustrate a point about sexual exploitation in the coffee selling business in general because I'm not about to paste lurid pics of bikini baristas on this article.

as for the Mormon history you have presented, you should get a little background on the development of the instituting of the "Word of wisdom" as a precept in LDS theology.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Word_of_Wisdom

The bottom line is that the word of wisdom was not implimented as a rule amongst LDS faithfull until one-hundred years after it was dictated,hence it was given—as not by 'commandment or restraint'.


AC 5 years ago

Nice article.

I know this isn't a language class, but I hope you don't mind a few suggestions. You could remove the errant apostrophes from "espresso's" and "latte's" to make them the plurals they should be, instead of the errantly possessive or contracted form they are right now. (And the random mid-sentence capitals "Caffeine," "Hot," etc., and some spelling errors, could be fixed, too.)

And the name of the church isn't "The Church of the Latter-day Saints" (as I see that you have written somewhere else--the category that this "hub" is in). It's The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

AC Thanks for the grammer lesson, i'll admit that there is always room for improvement. And I know full well that the name is The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints. I'm not in control of the topic title, but I'd rather consign my LDS articles to this one than say the Catholic or Protestant forum.


"..... And I'm a mormon" 5 years ago

Mormons DO drink coffee, and I live in Utah... anyway, the point is that it's "the word of wisdom" it says not to, so 'we' (they/us/whatever) don't do it. That's honest to god what it comes down to.

I drink coffee, Starbucks is great. But it's not the issue I suppose seeing as though that I have no problem drinking it, or others drinking it.

But hell, most "Mormons" are jack-mormons in Utah, no matter how absurd that sounds.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 5 years ago from washington Author

I'm sure there are lots of Mormons out there who do all kinds of things which are not in accordance with the principles and teachings of LDS doctrine, I don't think you will be banished to hell for all of eternity or some other sort of outrageous accusation that someone might assert to you for drinking coffee.

I do however, think that you will be missing out on all of the blessings that come with adhering to the the word of wisdom such as entrance to the temple, eternal marriage, and the joy that comes with performing vicarious ordinances on behalf of our deceased ancestors. Personally I would never trade such blessings for a cup of Starbucks.


Jill Southard 4 years ago

I am a barista at a Christian coffee shop and am completely modest with the way I dress. I find it wrather insulting that you blame the "carnal beast" on "the makers and sellers of hot drinks." just because someone sells espresso without a shirt does not make the espresso the inapropriate thing, it is the woman. There are also topless car washes. Does that make washing your car bad? If the same is true for espresso, then Mormons should stop washing their cars, and that is obviously rediculous.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 4 years ago from washington Author

Jill, I would like to clarify to you that I am not against the making and selling of Coffey and Espresso, and would never attempt to litigate against the said industry. I do however find a parallel with revelations given over one hundred years ago concerning the evils which have in fact arisen in the coffey world and the growing phenomena of explicit exploitation of women which has resulted.

Although I have heard about the seperate issue of topless carwashes I have yet to actually see one ever in my life. It seems that you are comparing a scenario where independant perhaps college age people come up with the idea of exploiting women whereas I am talking about a mass spread industry that has embraced the same thing. As you can clearly see the two issues are very different.

Since I wrote this article I can tell you that at least ten more topless, or otherwise lurid, espresso stands have popped up in my area.


tirelesstraveler profile image

tirelesstraveler 4 years ago from California

Always thought it was caffeine that Mormons avoided, didn't understand it was hot drinks. Interesting hub.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 4 years ago from washington Author

Yeah, there's nothing in LDS scripture that mentions caffeine.


frank morris 4 years ago

PLEASE SOME ONE HELP ME OUT SHOW ME ANY WHERE G-D TOLD ANY OTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE TO FOLLOW SPECIAL LAWS ABOUT FOOD, CLOTHS OR ANY OTHER THING, EXCEPT THE JEWISH PEOPLE, I BELIEVE IT SAYS IN DEUTERONOMY YOU CAN'T ADD NOTHING TO LAWS OF HASHEM, SO MORMONS SHOULD BE FOLLOWING THE NOAHIDE LAWS.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 4 years ago from washington Author

Frank, thanks for commenting.

First, it's not a commandment, it's a word of caution and an admonition to eat healthy, so that one can be healthier and live a fuller life.

Second, we believe that the law of Moses was fulfilled through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. This is not to negate the precepts which have been laid out from the beginning but rather to fulfill them. So Mormons should not be following the dietary laws or the law of animal sacrifice, but it goes without saying that we still are required to live righteously, and avoid sexual immorality, Idolatry, murder, theft, blasphemy, and so on.


waynejj 4 years ago

It has always made me ponder why Joseph Smith and our Lord said "hot drinks." Tobacco was specified as well as wine or strong drink, and what is good for you to eat is also made clear, but "hot drinks"? It took a later prophet to specify Smith meant tea and coffee. Then disobedience was not keeping investigators from joining the church. and in the early 1900s President Joseph F Smith was allowing leniency to "older" members with bad habits entrenched to still qualify for church callings and temple attendance. Current missionary discussions emphatically teach that it is NOT caffeine that is against the Word of Wisdom. So, drink all the caffeinated drinks you feel appropriate for you. Now, for example, the "hot drinks" definition was refined again and after more than a decade of receiving her recommend, my wife was denied her temple recommend because she takes green tea medicinally to help counteract her asthma -- it is a fact that steroids and other med asthma treatments are counterintuitive to the medicines she is required to take to stay alive and healthy. And, this was decided without any warning to her; in the temple recommend interview she was told that now she is not worthy to attend temple ceremonies. Surely, this is not Christ-like behavior from men who are supposed to be spiritually inspired. I honestly do not know what "hot drinks" means still, as I believe Joseph Smith was inspired to write what he did, and I know, from historical research, that people then, as some still do, drink excessively hot drinks to warm them selves and that this is a real cause of esophageal cancer. I believe this is what Joseph Smith truly meant, why would he be ambiguous in one place and precise in others?


exphoebe profile image

exphoebe 3 years ago

I find it interesting that Brigham Young's interpretation of hot drinks was mentioned but Gordon Hinckley's, a modern prophet, was not quoted. He said on Larry King that Mormons do not drink any caffeinated drinks.

Though I agree that to much coffee is not good for us I do not believe the Word of Wisdom was inspired in any way. A glass of red wine a day is proven to promote health, I personally do not like red wine, but it is a fact. Alcohol, coffee, and tea (if not used excessively) are not harmful and any grain, mentioned in D&C 89 can be consumed by humans.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

Hello Exphoebe, Actually scientists are starting to find that the old "glass of wine a day" health tip isn't so healthy after all.

It can actually INCREASE risk of cancer by 168%.

Dominique Maraninchi, INCA's president, said: 'Small daily doses of alcohol are the most harmful. There is no amount, however small, which is good for you.'

And Hinckley did not give any council to Mormons when he was on Larry King. Just because an LDS prophet is being interviewed does not mean that everything he says is doctrine.


exphoebe profile image

exphoebe 3 years ago

Was Hinckley on the show as a representative of the LDS church or on his own business? Did he talk for himself or the church? Did he lie? Funny, when the pope speaks he speaks for the Catholic Church but when a LDS Prophet and President speaks one can choose whether he spoke for the church or himself?

Congratulation you are right! The newest studies suggest that even small amounts of alcohol can cause cancer.

My question then is why was the use of red wine (small amounts) recommended for the sacrament? As you just said the small amounts of alcohol do it. The sacrament is taken each week and General Authorities take it even more than that. D&C 89:5,6 "That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, ONLY in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make."

Or are you implying that if you make the wine yourself it is healthier?

In verse 17 it says: "wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain."

So Beer, which is a mild drink (way less alcohol than wine) made of grain is allowed according to the founder of Mormonism. It's all so confusing! Humans should stick to wheat and feed animals corn, rye, barley and oats? What did Joseph think when he wrote this stuff? And who said Mormons could not drink beer?


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

Well first, Mormons are not Catholics and we do not believe as they do that our leaders are "infallible", hence every word that comes out of their mouths is not considered a commandment. Secondly if a revelation by way of commandment is given to the church, there is a specific process that it goes through in order to be considered such. Lastly the church has not used wine for the sacrament since 1830 when the Lord gave Joseph Smith this revelation: "behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins."

Notice that this revelation was given three years before the word of wisdom was written in 1833.

During prohibition in the 1920's when Alcohol consumption was illegal, Heber J Grant and Joseph F Smith made complete abstention from alcohol in any form a requirement for a temple recommend. This is in accordance with the 12th article of faith that states; "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying honoring, and sustaining the law."


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

About your topless issue. LDS prophets as well as biblical prophets have always counseled women to dress modestly, and I for one abhor the idea of fat dudes walking around without a shirt on.


exphoebe profile image

exphoebe 3 years ago

So what you are saying is that God did not know that this law in 1920 was going to come in effect when he gave the Word of Wisdom in 1833.

That's interesting stuff!

I was just going by what Ezra T Benson said in his address "Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet" on February 26, 1980.

"The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything."

"The prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the Lord” to give us scripture."

"The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know."

But then you might tell me that this talk wasn't an official revelation either.

My conclusion is that the prophet and president of the LDS Church is just another human and is totally unnecessary because you can never know whether he talks as a human or man of a god.

BTW - I can't find an official declaration about the modest thing only talks that could be interpreted as human words.

I wonder why there is no scripture saying that men must dress modestly. Misogyny is the word for your religion.

But I do not have to proof anything to you. I did not write your article and it is in fact your responsibly to provide evidence which so far you couldn't. Your conspiracy theory is totally self made and not the reason why Mormons do not drink coffee. At least you could not provide an official declaration from the Mormon church other than the Word of Wisdom which does not support your ridiculous claim. I should write to church head quarters and request an official stance on this matter.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

Exphoebe, I find it highly contradictory that you are accusing my church of misogyny while simotaniously advocating an idea that exploits the sexuality of women.

If this is true then the whole of American society on both sides of the political spectrum are replete with misoganists as there are very few places in this land where women walking around with their goodies hanging out is acceptable.

And you are wrong in your implication that God doesn't know his own laws. He has come out with different laws for living at different periods of time, from Adam, to Moses, to Jesus and his apostles.

What you are not grasping is that the LDS church teaches a principle as a foundation and leaves the interpertation up to the faithful individual's own personal revelations.


marbegay profile image

marbegay 3 years ago from US

References please!


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

No thanks.


waynejj 3 years ago

Here is something for you to consider Exphoebe, the missionary guide book is emphatic and exact stating that the Word of Wisdom has nothing to do with caffeine. Reference: Preach My Gospel, page 78. The Word of Wisdom is an encouragement to eat and drink what is good and healthy and to abstain for those items that are not. Pure and simple. You have the liberty or agency to choose, as you should, with guidance from the Holy Spirit, to choose wisely. Is it wise to drink sugary, caffeinated drinks. My choice is to avoid these drinks. Same with coffee, and black or pekoe teas. But I do drink warm or cold herbal infusions regularly and hot cocoa at times and do so with comfort that they aid my health and at times warm and comfort me. Even green tea, as a medicine, is allowed now by the church authorities.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

You had better tuck away those pesky facts waynejj, it is an annoying distraction from Exphoebe's attempts to polarize.


exphoebe profile image

exphoebe 3 years ago

What you guys are doing is called "cherry picking"!

wikipedia: Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position. It is a kind of fallacy of selective attention, the most common example of which is the confirmation bias. Cherry picking may be committed unintentionally.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

That's kind of funny that you are accusing us of doing the very thing that you are doing. You are taking a single statement out of context in order to disprove the LDS faith.

Spencer W. Kimball made his own and the Church's view of cola drinks clear:

"I never drink any of the cola drinks and my personal hope would be that no one would. However, they are not included in the Word of Wisdom in its technical application. I quote from a letter from the secretary to the First Presidency, 'But the spirit of the Word of Wisdom would be violated by the drinking or eating of anything that contained a habit-forming drug.' With reference to the cola drinks, the Church has never officially taken any attitude on this at but I personally do not put them in the class as with the tea and coffee because the Lord specifically mentioned them [the hot drinks]."

Bruce R. McConkie observed:

"Some unstable people become cranks. There is no prohibition in Section 89 as to the eating of white sugar, cocoa, chocolate, or anything else except items classified under tea, coffee, tobacco and liquor. If some particular food disagrees with an individual, then that person should act accordingly without reference to the prohibitions in this particular law of health."

President Heber J. Grant was encouraged to forbid cola drinks officially, but declined to do so:

"On October 15, 1924, representatives of the Coca-Cola Company called on President Grant to complain that non-Mormon Dr. T. B. Beatty, state Health Director, was using the church organization to assist in an attack on Coca-Cola. They asked President Grant to stop him, but he refused at first, saying that he himself had advised Mormons not to drink the beverage. Beatty, however, had been claiming that there was four to five times as much caffeine in Coke as in coffee, when in fact, as the representatives showed, there were approximately 1.7 grains in a cup of coffee and approximately .43 grains or about a fourth as much in a equivalent amount of Coke. After a second meeting, President Grant said that he was "sure I have not the slightest desire to recommend that the people leave Coca-Cola alone if this amount is absolutely harmless, which they claim it is." Beatty, however, insisted that he would still recommend against its use by children. The question was left unresolved, and evidence indicates that while the First Presidency has taken no official stand on the use of cola drinks, some members urge abstinence."

The Ensign included a wise caution in Dec 2008:

...the Word of Wisdom does not specifically prohibit caffeine. However, I believe that if we follow the spirit of the Word of Wisdom we will be very careful about what we consume, particularly any substance that can have a negative impact on our bodies. This is true regarding any drug, substance, or even food that may be damaging to one's health. This includes caffeine.

An official statement of policy from the First Presidency is available:

With reference to cola drinks, the Church has never officially taken a position on this matter, but the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against the use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs under circumstances that would result in acquiring the habit. Any beverage that contains ingredients harmful to the body should be avoided.

The 2010 Church Handbook of Instructions notes:

The only official interpretation of “hot drinks” (D&C 89:9) in the Word of Wisdom is the statement made by early Church leaders that the term “hot drinks” means tea and coffee.


exphoebe profile image

exphoebe 3 years ago

I am not cherry picking. I am pointing out that different prophets said different things.

Either there is nota direct line to the mormon god or there is no god at all. Gordon Hinckley made it very clear that mormons are not supposed to drink caffeinated drinks, on live television for crying out loud! Your leaders contradict themselves can't you see that?


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

Why don't you tell me exactly what Gordon B Hinckley said? I saw the interview. He was being asked if Mormons do not drink caffeinated drinks. His response was "right". That is not very clear as you are suggesting, it is not contextual as you are suggesting, he did not say it was a prerequisite for entrance into the temple, he did not give it as a commandment. He agreed with what the man was saying, and nothing more. And that is that some Mormons do abstain from caffeinated drinks. The point of their conversation and many other teachings of the church is to treat your body as a temple. Any further interpretation of the word of wisdom as far as how faithful believers in Christ follow these teachings is based on their own personal revelations.

Can't you see that you are being intellectually dishonest in your argument? Not only are you cherry picking, but you are soaring past its true intentions and scraping around to point out what you want so badly to be a damming contradiction when it clearly is not.

I wonder how easy it is for you to look past the meaningless contradictions, and imperfections in the Bible, and in the same breath ring the bells and whistles and stage a four alarm fire at the discovery of a single gnat you think you have discovered in the history of the LDS church.

Please tell me at least, that you are an atheist, or an agnostic, or anything but a Christian so at least you are not a raging hypocrite in your thinking.


waynejj@isp.com 3 years ago

Do not respond to exphoebe ANY MORE... honesty and integrity are not part of exphoebe's argument, it is just to contend strongly, and that does no one good. I might add that cherry picking is good, if you look at the fact the each person on Earth is different and thus God, our Heavenly Father, as is believed by some, has to look upon each of His children with a unique view and we are taken care of individually through guidance from the Holy Ghost. You may seek to tear down, exphoebe, but God seeks only to build up. At least that is what my God seeks to do. So cease and desist your negativity and contention, you do no one good. You too, one day, will know what is true, as will all. So go out and do something good, what you are endeavoring here is not good but hateful.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

Waynejj, I disagree with your accusation. We are having a debate, and as insincere as her motives may be, I have no problem with explaining my beliefs to anybody who asks. If anything the debate itself motivates me to go out and find answers to both the legitimate accusations as well as the illegitimate. I discuss it with people at work and in my life on a daily basis who usually have no intention to convert to Mormonism, and have found that they are appreciative to my openness to their criticisms and questions. I know that I'm not always perfect in my communications with others but I strive to improve from day to day. I do good for others and I put my light on a candle stick rather than under a bushel.

I have no malice or ill will for Exphoebe or any other person who wishes to debate me, and thus I refute the very idea that I am a hateful person.


exphoebe profile image

exphoebe 3 years ago

To Waynejj: American Family Foundation (14 Cult Characteristics)

The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment. (Living Prophet)

The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. (340 Missions, 55,410 missionaries)

The group is preoccupied with making money. (Collecting Tithes and so many other funds, like fast offering, ward and general missionary fund, perpetual education fund, humanitarian aid, Book of Mormon fund; alls donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion)

Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. (Choose faith over doubt; Faith—the Choice is Yours

RICHARD C. EDGLEY OCTOBER 2010)

Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). (Memorizing and reciting of scriptures, article of faith, young women theme, etc.)

The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth). (Temple Garment, Temple Recommend, Manuals such as "A Parents Guide, etc.)

The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity). (Claims of the pre-existence: white vs. black, and place of birth, the "chosen generation" preserved until now)

The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society. (The only true Church, having the fullness of the gospel)

The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).

The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).

The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them. (disciplinary counsel, constant call to repentance, bishops and mtc interviews, etc)

Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.

Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group. (Callings, home and visiting teaching, meetings galore, youth activities, etc.)

Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

@Onusonus: I do not feel any hate from you and I feel none for you. Your fellow mormon just recognizes the dangers of discussing these things. You might loose your temple recommend, if you have one, hanging out with people that oppose and disbelieve Mormonism if your bishop finds out.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

Again that is a ridiculous claim devised for the soul purpose of polarizing. Many of those characteristics describe anybody who follows Jesus or any other sect of religion. So again I will ask, are you a Christian? And if you say yes then you too follow a charismatic leader, and read from a book that invented tithing, and meditation techniques like, oh I don't know, praying. And Jesus had his apostles devote lost of their time to following him. So again there is nothing unique about Mormonism in that respect.


exphoebe profile image

exphoebe 3 years ago

How many of those apply to Mormonism?

And you are right Christians, Muslims, etc. all believe in some sort of leader and leave the thinking up to that person instead of using their own mind.

Only those that question their own and others religion loosened the plug that religion has put in their brains. All religions discourage free thinking. And like you have pointed out so clearly they (Church leadership) will not take blame on any of the many issues people have with their religion, they will blame it on the individual member and their interpretation of it. Pretty sneaky. If I was vicious I and knew your true identity I could have you disfellowship for your article that claims that Mormons don't drink coffee because of some sick conspiracy. (I won't want to do that, I am just trying to make a point here.) The Word of Wisdom is pretty clear that it is not because of such a thing. The truth is you live it because it is a commandment of god. I guess if you believe Gordons word you will not drink caffeinated drinks but if you choose what is written in the "Preach my Gospel" manual you won't worry about it.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

That's quite the imagination you've got there. You seem to be more apt for stifling my free thinking than any leadership in the church ever has. I have taught on the subject many times as an Elders quorum teacher as well as given several talks in our sacrament meetings on the word of wisdom.

It is interesting that my experience in the church has been so different from yours as you present authoritarian leadership in the church on a wildly unrealistic level of intrusion in the personal lives of members.

I particularly enjoyed reading your little fantasy about the church's roll in the bedroom. It's okay though, I got special permission from the bishop to do it with the lights on. LOL!

And gee wiz thanks for not turning me in to the Mormon mafia for this article. Gosh I sure hope they don't find out about it...


exphoebe profile image

exphoebe 3 years ago

You sound like my Grandpa. When blacks were able to receive the priesthood he said that the church was wrong and that he now receives inspiration for THE church. LOL!

When there is nothing else for you to say to justify your article you attack the person. It's a typical and common mormon trade called ad hominem.

wikipedia: An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person", short for argumentum ad hominem, is an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument. Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as an informal fallacy, more precisely an irrelevance.

"You are a sad little man." (Disney's Toy Story)

Church Handbook of Instructions, Book 1, Stake Presidencies and Bishoprics, 2006, Page 110

Apostasy

As used here, apostasy refers to members who:

1. Repeatedly act in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its leaders.

2. Persist in teaching as Church doctrine after they have been corrected by their bishop or a higher authority.

3. Continue to follow the teachings of apostate sects after being corrected by their bishop or a higher authority.



exphoebe profile image

exphoebe 3 years ago

All your comments have proven to me is how different the teachings of the individual wards are in the LDS church. There is no unity regarding doctrine. If your bishop agrees with your conspiracy theory than he is the first I have heard of supporting such a claim. Good luck to you! I am not wasting any more of my time on your hub. I was not trying to make you doubt rather than correct your claim as a personal rather than church teaching.


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

Thanks for all the wiki references but I'm actually smarter than an eighth grader. As for ad hominem, lets not throw stones when we live in glass houses, you have been attacking my character since you got here.

Now before you go I must point out the fallacy in your last point. You said that I imply in my article that my conclusions are "church teachings".

Perhaps you should go back and pay closer attention to the article itself. Particularly when I said: "What I see about this revelation..is" or "To me it is the fulfillment of a prophecy" or "I can't help but wonder if.."

I really thought I made it obvious that this was an opinion piece and not official church doctrine. Of course most people who oppose the church like to jump to off kilter conclusions when they hear a Mormon say something, anything...


Tina Mitchell 3 years ago

continually drinking hot drinks thins the esophogeal lining and tea and coffee have tanic acid thats turns your tummy to leather that is why mormons are told not to drnk it


Onusonus profile image

Onusonus 3 years ago from washington Author

That's a good reason not to drink it, but that's not the whole reason.

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