Will the Mormon Church Go Down?

The historic Salt Lake Tabernacle, with the Salt Lake temple in the background.
The historic Salt Lake Tabernacle, with the Salt Lake temple in the background. | Source

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the LDS Church) had its beginnings with a vision where God the Father and Jesus Christ came to Joseph Smith in Manchester, New York. The LDS affirm, though, that the true origin of the Church was with Jesus, when He organized it while living on the earth in the Land of Jerusalem. The vision to Joseph Smith was the beginning of the restoration of the church that Jesus organized. "Restoration" is made more clear when we learn that Peter, James and John later came to Joseph Smith to pass on to him the priesthood power that Jesus gave to them during His earthly ministry. Other people who originally had certain responsibilities also came to Joseph Smith to pass on to him the charges they carried as directed originally by Jesus.

A markerManchester, New York -
Manchester, NY, USA
[get directions]

The place where Joseph Smith went to a grove of trees, and prayed, asking which church was true.

Book of Mormon - the Musical

The Book of Mormon, the story of Jesus as seen on the American continent, is also considered part of this "restoration," since it contains the gospel as presented by Jesus. It is called "Another Testament of Jesus Christ."

(The video to the right is not made by the Church, but by a professional group not necessarily endorsed by the LDS Church.)

The LDS Church is full of members and leaders who are convinced that the organization will remain on the earth until Jesus comes in His glory. But also within the church is the following scripture, found in 3 Nephi 16:1-10, which I will summarize here:

While He is gathering the elect from the four ends of the earth, blessing the believing Gentiles with a knowledge of the fullness of His gospel, by means of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which He has established among them, He speaks of a time when the Gentiles will reject the fullness of His gospel, and at that point in time, He promises to remove that fulness "...from among them."

How this is to be accomplished is not revealed, but, later, in chapter 21, the Lord says that there will be among the Gentiles those who will not believe the message of the restoration, even though it is declared unto them, by his servant, and because of these unbelievers, his servant will be marred.

What does this mean?

Let's consider something from the LDS Church's Doctrine and Covenants section 101: Verse 43 begins with a parable. The subsequent verses tell of a nobleman who commands his servants to plant twelve olive trees, and put watchmen around the vineyard, and to build a tower, surrounding it with a hedge. Soon, the watchmen wondered why a tower is needed, for this was a time of peace. They therefore stopped production, and became slothful. But it wasn't long before the enemy did come at nighttime, broke through the hedge and destroyed the vineyard.

This looks like a total invasion and destruction of the Church. Is the LDS predicting their own demise?

A message from Elder Nelson, an apostle of the LDS Church

Some LDS people - people who are faithful and actually believe in all LDS doctrine - believe the Church "is going down." Others say it will go down in a type of "cleansing," but will it be permanent? The 3 Nephi 16 passage continues with promises to bless the Gentiles if they repent, but then continues with a threat if they don't. Nevertheless, the D&C 101 parable envisions the redemption of Zion, and presumably the Church, in terms of a military assault, in verses 55 and 56.

Doug Bundy, a scholar on Church scriptures, and also a man on top of current events, has pieced together the situation facing us today, and discusses our immediate future, both in the Church and in the world. Watch him live every Tuesday morning (locally) at 9:00, and watch his cache of videos which have outlined his thoughts on the calamities and troubles that await us. His program is called Voices from the Dust TV. There are links below that will help you find him.

There may not be many things we can do to avoid certain prophecies, but there is much we can do to prepare ourselves, to avoid undue suffering. Also, we can go through the motions of fighting back. In so doing, if calamity still comes, at least we can say that we are not responsible, having warned others. This reflects Jacob's reasoning as found in Jacob 1:19 (the passage is paraphrased, to avoid an automatic plagiarism detector in the HubPages system):

"And we magnified our work . . . , taking upon us the responsibility, taking the sins of the people on our own souls if we did not teach them with all diligence; therefore, by being dedicated to their salvation, their blood might not come upon us; otherwise their sins would come upon our shoulders, and we would not be found spotless at the judgment day."

"Turn Around," From the Mormon Tabernacle Choir

More by this Author


44 comments

Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 2 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

I have ponder that very thing often wondering if it would come to pass; but, there is a condition there! For one, I know that I am not a Gentile. Number two, members of the church are not Gentiles either. Number three, the condition of repentance is always available to the Gentiles.

Forget the numbers, the Lord was speaking of those Gentiles who were unbelieving. He was not speaking of those who had joined the church and become the House of Israel. He was not speaking of faithful members of the church or of casting the church away from the present leaders, who are of the seed of Abraham themselves!

He would remove His church from among the Gentiles by stopping missionary work and calling for the Building of Zion. We must consider all of the other scriptures together with this one in order to avoid making a mistake in understanding.

It is never a good idea to take one scriptural reference and build and entire idea behind that one point. That was the issue with the Protestants. The took one point of doctrine and made churches--Baptists focused on baptism; Methodists focused on the way we lived our lives: Pentecostals focused on a great spiritual experience with the Holy Ghost, Presbyterians focused on priesthood. The Catholics focused on the succession of Peter to what became a pope. The Easter Orthodox Church also focused on succession instead of the whole gospel--in other words no prophets! The list of the splinter groups can continue forever. My point is, there are more verse which must be taken in to consideration with this one to get an accurate view of what God is planning to do.

Also, there is the spirit of Revelation that each baptized Christian with the Gift of the Holy Ghost can receive to let us know if our understanding of the scriptures are correct interpretations.

The prophets of the Church are also a source for understanding things of this nature, if they have written or spoke about. If you look at the last conference, they are trying to prevent the apostasy that many come to many of the young people in the church.

I know that happened in the Book of Mormon where the youth did not believe in the tradition and religion of their parents and became a separate people regarding it.

1 Now it came to pass that there were many of the rising generation that could not understand the words of king Benjamin, being little children at the time he spake unto his people; and they did not believe the tradition of their fathers.

2 They did not believe what had been said concerning the resurrection of the dead, neither did they believe concerning the coming of Christ.

3 And now because of their unbelief they could not understand the word of God; and their hearts were hardened.

4 And they would not be baptized; neither would they join the church. And they were a separate people as to their faith, and remained so ever after, even in their carnal and sinful state; for they would not call upon the Lord their God. Mosiah 26:1-4

I fear that might happen and not just to our church, but to all churches and religions that encourage peace. I hope that does not happen to my kids. I hope.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

I believe that God is all powerful, omniscient, and omnipresent. If my belief, shared by so many Christians, is correct, then those who fight against God are bound to lose. What amazes me is the atheists who fight so hard against the God they say doesn't exist. Can it be rational to devote time to such a cause? It truly must confirm the saying: "Misery loves company."

In my opinion, the falling away has already occurred (witness the Dark Ages) and is already in the past. With a current body of missionaries (83,000+) devoted to spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and a current membership in excess of 15 million in a church which believes that "every member is a missionary," the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is far more likely to continue growing than it is to simply fade away.


SamboRambo profile image

SamboRambo 2 years ago from Salt Lake City, Utah Author

I appreciate your comments, and your zeal in defending the faith. Sometimes, I play the devil's advocate so that I might stimulate defense from the faithful, and get their ideas. Don't worry about my convictions and my fidelity. I have received such a witness, that it seems impossible for me to slide. Another reason I posted this, is to invite you to join Doug Bundy in his daily broadcasts which treats the subject, and in which I am an occasional guest.


SamboRambo profile image

SamboRambo 2 years ago from Salt Lake City, Utah Author

Celafoe, I welcome comments with an opposite view of my own, but I have probably been unfair to you in making you think I am con on the LDS. Therefore, I deleted your comment, but I will review it here:

You said, "All the cults and most of what profess to be Christian churches but are not, need to disappear. ALL the cults do nothing of any eternal value, all they do is lead people to satan."

Whether that be true or not, I wish to make it clear that I don't consider Mormonism as a cult in the popular sense used against us these days. However, by definition, all religions - by the fact of their nature - are defubed as cults. But I don't think the LDS are leading people to Satan, but to God the father, and to His Son Jesus Christ, our Savior, and toward our eternal salvation.

One reason I created this article, was to give people a chance to consider different possibilities awaiting the LDS Church, which subject is being covered by Doug Bundy on his program (see the link above). I do believe that there is a cleansing going on in the Church. This article is put here to show people that it is merely a cleansing, but will result in nothing that will destroy it.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 2 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

and I expected you to delete, dont want them to see any scriptural proof that you are a cult and truly not Christian. and you surely dont want them to read the godmakers. Your opinion of moronisn is not important, but God;s is and He says it is not a Christian religion. Anything that leads to a different jesus than Paul did is anethma to Christianity and "another gospel of jesuschrist" cannot be and is therfore a false christ. which means it came from satan as did moron i, josephs pet demon. sorry you are deceived


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

The subtitle incorrectly referred to by the last commenter actually reads thus: "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" not a different gospel, for Christ's gospel warns against judging others, and commands that we love God and our neighbors. Matthew 5:22 is a serious warning, and one to be taken seriously. Following the teaching of James 1:5 anyone can know the truth given to them liberally by God.

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints hold Paul in great esteem, citing him in the church's 13th Article of Faith which reads: "We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul---We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things."


SamboRambo profile image

SamboRambo 2 years ago from Salt Lake City, Utah Author

@ Celafoe, I really didn't delete your comment, but - as seen - I moved it in its entirety to my own comment box, so I could discuss it. It is true that Paul told us not to accept a different Jesus, but I believe I have evidence that our gospel is the one Jesus put forth. Popular Christianity preaches the trinity concept, which cannot be found anywhere in the Bible. Jesus did say that He and the Father were one, but He meant one in purpose, as shown in John 17:11 and 21, 22:

11 . . . Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

This means one of two things: either Jesus wants His followers to be one person, or that Jesus and the Father are one in purpose. I think the latter is true, as I doubt you and I could occupy the same body.

By the way, some non-LDS who oppose the Church have admitted that the "Godmakers" is a little too carelessly made to qualify as competent evidence against the LDS Church.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 2 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

are you a temple mormon?


celafoe profile image

celafoe 2 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

as soon as I can get the time I will make a list of all the scriptures that are violated by joseph and his followers. Then you can refute that for me.

ALSo note, all denominations that profess to be Christian are also cults as their leadership is in men as yous is and not in the Holy Spirit of God.

church buildings, temples etc have nothing to do with CHristianity as today the temple of the Holy Spirit is in In.dividual persons not a building

and "the head of man is CHrist" not men. no man is over or above any other man


SamboRambo profile image

SamboRambo 2 years ago from Salt Lake City, Utah Author

Revelation 7:15

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

As this was written in the book of Revelation, John, who wrote this after Jesus died, is speaking of a future event.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 2 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

yes that is speaking of after the judgement when God sets up His Kingdom on earth not about the period of new testament Christianity. The law, the priests, the temples made by hands and all the the trappings were done away with when Jesus Died and upon His resurrection the new testament began. A Complete NEW covenat, because He FULFILLED ALL of the law as was required to finish it. He paid the blood covenant so it is no longer need, we has His blood to cover us


SamboRambo profile image

SamboRambo 2 years ago from Salt Lake City, Utah Author

A Jewish scholar (I can tell you who, if you wish) told me that "fulfilled" in the Bible does not mean "done away with," but rather "explained and enhanced," or "made whole--made into one." When I give you the reference, I will give you the exact meaning. But it concerns the joining together of the old and the new. This is why we should still keep the 10 Commandments and the law of tithing.

We consider the restoration of Christ's church through Joseph Smith the "Kingdom of God on the earth."


nighthag profile image

nighthag 2 years ago from Australia

Knowing very little about the LDS I found this very interesting, thanks for sharing in some depth your views on this, it was a learning curve


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

We all have so much to learn, nighthag, but with the learning comes the opportunity for greater practice and service to God and our fellow humans. In doing so we keep Christ's command that we follow him, do what he showed us to do, and strive to become more like him, even as he was and is. May God our Heavenly Father bless us all in our efforts to be more like His son.


SamboRambo profile image

SamboRambo 2 years ago from Salt Lake City, Utah Author

Celafoe, what is a "temple Mormon?"


Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 2 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

I can answer that one Sambo since he has also commented at one time on my hub about this. Those of us Mormons that have gone through the temple ceremonies and made the covenants within the temple are temple Mormons as opposed to those Mormons who have not.


SamboRambo profile image

SamboRambo 2 years ago from Salt Lake City, Utah Author

Is there any type of stigma attached to such by those who aren't LDS?


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

Others may feel that only being able to visit an LDS Temple during the Open House before the temple is dedicated to the Lord is somehow discriminatory. That is mitigated somewhat by learning that only those LDS members who hold a Temple Recommend are allowed into LDS Temples. You might include what is required of members to actually hold a Temple Recommend.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 2 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

well it means they and only they are privy to all the SECRET working of the church and are sworn to never divulge under penalty of death according to their oath . And they are required to wear at all time an undergarment which is supposed to protect from bullets and all other attacks if they have not broken their temple vows.

There are many other strange and secret things that go with this.

The real Christianity HAS NO secrets.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

There were areas of even the earliest temples that only those worthy enough could enter. Holiness need not be a secret to anyone, but it still seems to be a real struggle for most of us. Living lives of holiness is a commandment for any truly devout person, and aspiring to live such a life is the key to Christian progress.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 2 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

that was under the OLD covenant and we Live under the NEW Covenant.

There are NO temples made by hand in it. The temple of the Lord in the New Testament ( Jesus-Christianity) is in PEOPLE. When Jesus died the veil in the temple of the Old testament was supernaturaly rent (torn), letting God out of the box (ark of the covenant) that He lived in. And when He was resurrected the New Testament began and God moved into the PEOPLE that belonged to Him. No longer was it necessary to go to God, He became instantly available to His people wherever they are. God in not in ANY TEMPLE BUILT BY HANDS, He lives in His people. There are NO secrets in the TRUE church of Jesus Christ (His people). He sent us His Holy Spirit to teach us ALL truth if we will submit to Him. We need no man in a temple built by hands to give us permission to approach the real true God because He lives in His people . The real True people of God that follow the REAL Jesus Christ.

joseph smith and ALL those "prophets" of the false and secret religion (mormon) are liars and usurpers and they are not of Jesus Christ of Nazereth, but of the false jesus, the jesus of joseph smith and his demonic guide moroni

check out the truth of the mormon church and do not be deceived as they are


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

All Christians know to go to God in prayer, and neither the Holy Ghost nor God's spirit will dwell in unclean tabernacles. God is a loving god of order and not of confusion, contention, or the judging of one human by another human except they hold the authority to act as a judge. Men and women can be worthy without a knowledge of the gospel, but those who have such knowledge are duty bound to share it, so that others may share in their happiness and progression to be able to return to the one Heavenly Father of us all.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 2 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

please give me scripture from the bible to support your claim

" Men and women can be worthy without a knowledge of the gospel," as this staement is totally opposite of scripture


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

First a question or two: do you feel that men and women who have never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ will be damned? do you feel that men and women who love God, and love their neighbors as themselves, will never be able to return to God because no Christian ever shared the gospel with them? And finally, is the person who lives the gospel without knowing Jesus, worse than the person who could have shared that gospel with them, but didn't? We will all be righteously judged, with Jesus Christ as our Advocate and Redeemer, by God whose judgments are righteous

In answer to your question: When one asked Christ "Are there few that be saved? He replied "Seek to enter in at the strait gate; for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.....And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. And behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last."

Among those who were not able to attend, there were those who said they had eaten, and drunk in his presence, and knew he had taught in their streets, who would not be admitted, whereas those others would see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, along with all the prophets, in the kingdom of God. (From Luke 13:23-30)

Lastly, if the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, can it be that ignorance of the gospel is unforgivable?

On a previous subject you have raised, covenants made in the temple are not so much "secret" as they are sacred covenants made between the covenant maker and God

The Paul we both admire and learn from spoke of prophets and prophecy in his letter to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 14) and said that prophets and prophecy are for the edifying of the church...not done away with and ended., as some have presupposed.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 2 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

I will answer your questions one by one.

First--What I think means NOTHING . to me or anyone else. What God says means Everything. If what I think does not line up with scripture, I must change what I think so that it does.

1. Scripture says no one can come to God other than through the man Christ Jesus. BUT there is no requirement that a Christian tell them, even though all Christians are to tell. There are many cases where God supernaturally introduced himself to people. So yes , no matter what good works one does they cannot enter The Kingdom of God without coming through Jesus no matter how "good" they think they are and no matter how many "good " works they do . Scripture says there is only one who is good.

2. Yes there are many who think they have "worked" their way into God;s Kingdom that will find their work is as dirty rags and they will not enter. Among them will be many hireling pastors that do not teach the full Gospel.

3. You are playing word games here. Yes it says blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable but you cannot put "ignorance of the Gospel" in that equation. Ignorance of The Gospel is not an action like blasphemy is. The scriptures also tell us that ALL will have the opportunity to hear The Gospel-maybe not the way you expect but in some way of God's choice and how they respond will determine their destiny.

4.In the New Testament there are NO Tabernacles made by hands. ALL God's tabernacles are flesh. ANd there are NO secrets in God's Kingdom. You know I was referring to the false gospel of the mormon church where they must swear a covenant with the mormon church, not God, on their life, to not divulge any of the secrets of the inner workings of the mormon cult.

5. Yes there are prophets today but a Prophet of God does not make the rules, He just reveals what God has to say. The false prophets of the cults, mormon, 7th day adventist, jehovah witness, make man made rules for their "churches of men". Scripture tells us that God is the same yesterday, today and forever and He does NOT change. But the beliefs of the cults change as their prophets are changed, thereby further proving they are false and not of God.

A true Christian does not have the right or the privilege of believing what he wants to. He MUST only have beliefs that are consistent with what God says is truth. Anything else is false.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

celafoe- your are arguing with someone who is deeply rooted in his cult group. Perspycacious evidently enjoys or embraces his blindness from the truth just like the rest of the LDS. You can quote verses to them until you're blue in the face. You made a good effort to show truth, now it's up to them to either see it or continue to wear their blinders. LDS as a church makes a lot of money, so, to give that up for the sake of truth is not going to happen. celafoe, have you noted in the Hub how there are referrences to their church dictrine in their "other" church books that are not the bible. How much money do you think they make off these other books. In my opinion the leaders of the LDS cult are in it for the money and it make me sick.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

Amos 3:7 is quite clear, and a good commentary on Romans 14:11 is the following: " Though some are weak, and others are strong, yet all must agree not to live to themselves. No one who has given up his name to Christ, is allowedly a self-seeker; that is against true Christianity. The business of our lives is not to please ourselves, but to please God. That is true Christianity, which makes Christ all in all. Though Christians are of different strength, capacities, and practices in lesser things, yet they are all the Lord's; all are looking and serving, and approving themselves to Christ. He is Lord of those that are living, to rule them; of those that are dead, to revive them, and raise them up. Christians should not judge or despise one another, because both the one and the other must shortly give an account. A believing regard to the judgment of the great day, would silence rash judgings. Let every man search his own heart and life; he that is strict in judging and humbling himself, will not be apt to judge and despise his brother. We must take heed of saying or doing things which may cause others to stumble or to fall. The one signifies a lesser, the other a greater degree of offence; that which may be an occasion of grief or of guilt to our brother." (from Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary 14:7-13)

At some time, and in some way we may not be given to understand, every knee shall bow and every tongue confess, whether in this life or in the next it really doesn't matter. If we believe that Jesus is the Christ and that he is our Lord, our exemplar, the Son of God, and that the Atonement is real, and we do our best to keep the commandments, the rest is laid out before all of us as to how we should live our lives.

I choose to believe that God, the same yesterday, today, and forever, will never leave his children without a great teacher-prophet. Each of us must make our own choices. I could point out that LDS leaders, whether in branches, wards, or stakes are not paid, our churches are cleaned by their members, and

copies of the Book of Mormon are given to anyone requesting one at no charge, LDS "Articles Of Faith" and doctrine are available to anyone wishing to know more about the restored church of Jesus Christ and how that restoration came about and is continued today.

I praise the zeal and dedication others have shown here both in support of LDS beliefs and in opposition to them.

Regardless of these positions, we are all agreed that Jesus Christ is all that we know him to be and died so that all who come unto him and keep his commandments might have eternal life.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

Perspscacious-I don't care about your Matthew Harry's Concise Commentery. It is not the Holy Bible. And I don't care about any other books of your church either. As far as I'm concerned the books of your church is garbage. The is no such thing in the bible called "Articles of Faith." This is just plain garbage from your church.


Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 2 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

No one will enter the Kingdom of Heave without going directly through Christ in this life or the next. All must enter in by the strait gate, even the ignorant, which is why the gospel is also preached to the dead.

I am a so called "Temple Mormon" and will share with you everything that I experienced in the temple. There are no secret things that you cannot find on the internet. You may witness an entire ceremony on YouTube!

We "temple Mormons" are not allow to have "secrets" in today's world. We can only keep sacred what we have covenanted to keep sacred.

What secret do you think that we have that has not been revealed?


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

It is easy to call other faiths cults, but if you have not read the LDS Articles of Faith, and have not read the Book of Mormon (and by the way, we revere the Holy Bible as far as it is translated correctly) then criticism of what you have not studied must come from someone else's say so rather than one's own. I encourage everyone to practice their own Christian faith, be a full tithe payer, pray continuously to know the truth. LDS members are not out to change what you know to be true, only to add to your knowledge what we believe to be true, and every one of the 15,000,000 LDS members has been encouraged to also make there own decision to be baptized. Others have dropped away, many have never made the commitments to live the life of a member, but all are encouraged to at least know what a large number of Americans and even more LDS members around the world believe and practice today. As the last commenter commented, there is no mystery that is obscured from view to anyone who cares enough to find out why we are truly Christians and grant to others the same privilege we claim for ourselves in worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience. We believe in God the Eternal Father of us all, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. Anyone who wants to know more can go to the LDS website and learn more.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 2 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

anyone that uses any book other than the bible to support their supposed christian beliefs is grasping at straws because they cannot support their beliefs. That includes jewish theologian, remember they are the ones that KILLED Christ. Anyone that believes the foolish book of mormon is deceived and the truth is not in them. As scripture (Paul_) says anyone teaching adifferent gospel other than the Gospel taught by him is false and not of God.

2 Thess 2:9-12

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

celafoe -Paul himself answered your question as to where in the Holy Bible it might support my contention that persons ignorant of the Gospel might ultimately be judged worthy. I believe all mankind will eventually be taught the Gospel, whether in mortality or after death, but here is what Paul wrote in Romans 2:13-15 and verse 29: "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles which have not the law, do by nature the things which are contained in the law, these having not the law are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or excusing one another;)....."But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

There is only one Gospel, one Lord, one God, and one Holy Ghost, and not all churches, while teaching differing doctrines, can be correct. All Christians teaching and practicing that one Gospel, living the Lord's commandments, praying to that one God, and seeking the inspiration of the Holy Ghost in all things are Christians. Keeping Christ's commandments taught to him by God to teach to all of us who will listen and obey, is the test of every believer's Christianity.

It is not enough to simply say "I believe." In the General Epistle of James it is written: "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." (James 2:26)

If you feel that because of my beliefs I will be damned, pray for me, and as God hears all prayers, I will pray for you also.


celafoe profile image

celafoe 2 years ago from Planet earth. between the oceans

You really need to learn how to understand scripture instead of the book of moron. The passage you quote is not to or for Christians, Paul was talking to jews who do not recognize Christ as the savior and are still under the old covenant. it does not apply as you are trying to use it. context context context

now that I know you are a mormon I will not waste any more time here.

please do not pray for me I am not interested in mormon prayers


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

Charles, I will pray for you anyway, for that is my privilege. I have no set prayers as some religions have, and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has none other than our prayers over the elements of the sacrament. some are suggested, such as healing blessings, the dedication of a grave, etc., but I will pray with my sole intent being your continued service to the Lord in all righteousness, and I will do my best to answer any further questions you or others on HubPages have at any future time.


Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 2 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Bigoted much? This is the case with some supposed Christians who think they know better without revelation. Pride cometh before the fall.


graceinus 2 years ago from those of the Ekklesia

Rodric29- Exactly. You described yourself perfectly.


Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 2 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

graceinus, you are probably right. I fit right in there too. I need to make sure I know what I am talking about before I speak also.

I do pray and receive revelation, but I am not careful and pride follows me often. Thanks for pointing that out.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

Checking to see, if my sometimes cantankerous computer is cooperative. It is, so I will only add here that we have an opportunity here on HubPages to understand each other better, and to interact in ways that are edifying. I am thankful for this opportunity and I look forward to everyone's well intended comments.


Rodric29 profile image

Rodric29 2 years ago from Phoenix, Arizona

Thanks Perspycacious for your graciousness. I feel this article is helpful. I recently heart that of the 15 million members of the church, about 4 million are estimated to be actively living the gospel.

The only thing about the statistic is that it may not follow what the church actually counts as active. Going to church once a month or quarterly is considered active if I am correct while the poll that I am familiar with counts every worship service. I am not sure though.

Four million is a depressing number for me, but I am glad that those who do go actually go.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

Romans 14:19 is an appropriate scripture reference for here:

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

A comment on "Active LDS Members": to be considered as "active" in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, an active member is one who attends at least 70% of his regular church services. The regular services each week are an hour devoted to the Sacrament Service, an hour of Gospel Doctrines Classes, and a third hour devoted to study of personal relation to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Essentially, an "active" member of this church could attend nine hours per month and be considered to be active.

As local leadership also carries out their assignments without compensation, those additional hours spent by teachers, bishops, counselors, and as "Home Teachers" and "Visiting Teachers", missionaries, and volunteers in various callings and projects, are in addition to the nine hours or more spent attending Sunday's classes and services.

For many Christians of other faiths, that level of activity can be seen as setting a high standard of formal activity, much of it involving as it does regular, frequent service to others and to God.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

My previous comment, taken from Paul's epistle to the Romans, was a letter Paul was writing to other Christians; so the assertion that it was not presented in the proper "context" seems strained at best.


SamboRambo profile image

SamboRambo 2 years ago from Salt Lake City, Utah Author

I was surprised to see so many comments. Because of my missionary work, I haven't visited this page for a while. Because there were so many comments, I just skimmed over them, so if my following comments are repetitious, I apologize. I just want to set the record straight, and I hope to answer all accusations in one sweeping post, here:

The Old Testament laws are not done away with. I don't think you'll find that term in the Bible. I talked to a Jewish scholar, and he said that "fulfilled" means to explain and make into a whole. So Jesus combined the old and the new, and incorporated all into His message. This is why we still have to obey the 10 Commandments, and keep the law of tithing, and serve in the temple, which - evidently - some of the apostles did after Jesus died.

There is no mention of "do or die" in the temple ordinances, nor was it specifically worded that way before.

God doesn't "dwell" in our temples. He visits them while we're there, to testify to us of the things therein. There is a scripture in the Bible that says people will serve in God's temples DAY AND NIGHT. This certainly supports the existence of temples in our day.

The Book of Mormon is no more an addition to the Bible than is the book of Revelation, or of Luke, parts of which were added in the third century A.D.

Someone quoted the scripture that shows that God won't reveal His secrets unless to a prophet. Well, God has not yet restored the 12 Tribes, so evidently He is still in need of a prophet to fulfill that promise.

I can support any of my claims with scripture and documentation, if you wish. I didn't today, because it's 1:15 am.

If I left anything out, let me know.


Perspycacious profile image

Perspycacious 2 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

Read again Amos 3:7 which says "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." It doesn't have to be something fantastic, just something man does not know, but that it will be reavealed unto God's servants the prophets when God no longer keeps that particular secret.

    Sign in or sign up and post using a HubPages Network account.

    0 of 8192 characters used
    Post Comment

    No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked. Comments are not for promoting your articles or other sites.


    Click to Rate This Article
    working