Zeus, Elohim, Yahweh, etc. are all the same gods

Zeus & the Gigante Porphyrion; in Antikenmuseen, Berlin, Germany, No. 52521

Source

Zeus, Elohim, Yahweh, Osiris, Isis, Horus and the Others

 All of the ancient gods and goddesses had equals but different names depending on which civilization mortals invented them in an effort to answer questions that seemed to have no answer unless it was divine or out of this world. Superstition reigned for thousands of years.

The Greek and Roman deities were but matches for the divinites of ancient Egypt. The original Trinity of gods came out of Egypt (Papyrus of Ani) with Osiris brother/husband to Isis and their child Horus being the first to be addressed as the Holy Trinity. The handsome god Poseidon had a great love for water and after he and his fellow brothers (Hades and Zeus who made up the other parts of the Holy Triangle [Trinity] obtained the sea and all that was in it, with Poseidon (also known as Neptune) frequently consorting (having sex) with sea creatures especially mermaids and mermen by whom he had children. Mer is the Latin name for sea.

The least handsome brother, Hades, preferred the darkness and contradictions, and because of that he was given the lower world that was engulfed in darkness and yet had fires that burned the flesh of those damned there--those who were damned being defeated gods and demigods (the children of a deity and a mortal). The most crafty and cunning of all the gods was the athletic and robust Zeus who ultimately killed his father Kronus and began the mythology of a sacrificed god who in most cases died on a stake (a word that in the second century CE Greek is transmogrified into "Cross"). For his domain, Zeus (known as Jupiter in Rome) was the victor in winning the heavens and the upper regions from which he hurled thunderbolts to keep all creatures submissive in terror (and he would become the foundation of the initial myths of the pig god of Arabia who was originally known as Ali or Allu which by the seventh century CE would become Allah). The earth (as a planet) became common to all of the gods as defined by ancient writers: Homer in  his Illian. xv. 187ff, cf., i. 528, ii. 111; and Virgil in his Aeniad. iv. 372.

Each of these gods (Poseidon, Zeus, and Hades) had 12 apostles who were sent out to "all nations to teach" the people of the earth the will of each god. When the people revolted, Zeus ordered Poseidon to cover the earth with a great flood, cast giants to the ground, and had his priests drink until drunk once the flood waters parted and falls down into a stupor. At that point, in a totally drunken state the sons (always three in honor of the numerous Trinity groupings that existed) came upon the naked father--with one looking at the nudity and the others covering the naked man. How each society treated the nudity defined the role of the men and gave birth to future tales of awe and wonderment. Cp. Homer, Illiad., i. 175, viii. 22. Interestingly, the Greeks acknowledged that the source for their deities came from ancient Egypt.

Osiris and the brother/husband of Isis. While Zeus' wife Hera was inferior to her husband and forced into subservience (given the rise of patriarchy), the same was not true in ancient Egypt. Isis was every bit as strong, knowledgeable, and creative as her brother/husband Osiris whom she actually saved when his brother Set killed him and cut off his penis (thereby ending fertility of the planet) which a crocodile consumed. Finding the penis, Isis impregnated herself with it, and gave birth to Horus who would have a ministry similar to Jesus, and a life as ribald as any Roman or Greek deity. Osiris, Isis, and Horus were for thousands of years hailed as "the Divine Three Gods in One God" who had the ability to separate themselves when the time was necessary: Osiris being the Father God, Horus being the dutiful son who would sacrifice his life when called upon, and Isis being the "Heaven Ghost of Wisdom" to advise the other two of what was necessary to continue the productivity of the Nile and the obedience of the people whom they needed so that they would be assured of perpetual adoration and love.  People were important as they needed their constant praise and thanksgiving of the worshippers so that the gods would know they had value--until one deity dared to breathe that "prayer is begging."

Yahweh was one of the Egyptian gods: Yah, a god represented as a cow by whom she (the gender of the cow; the male is a bull) would be impregnated by Weh to form a son (not Jesus--he is an invention of the invading Apiru from India. Hathor Cow-goddess Cult found in the Southern Sinai and Arabah is transported first to Jericho and from there to a small village that would later become Jerusalem.

Yah was the female counterpart to Troth (god and goddess of the moon; the female would become Venus).  The were inventors, writers (scribes) to the gods, skilled musicians, and like Hades, Troth (the Egyptian name is Djehuty) was god of the underworld--out of which comes the first concept of a life after death for the noble born and erudite. It was claimed that Troth wrote the Book of the Dead (known as being on the Papyrus of Ani, c. 1240 BCE).  Israel would worship this Golden Calf from the Late Bronze Age to the Late Iron Age II (1000 - 562 BCE), and with it came not only a divestiture of beliefs, but the rise of an angry prophetic group who demanded (as occurred in Egypt) a strict monotheism that most rejected as an absurdity.

From the mating of Yah (now male) with the Cow the Pharaohs were created, and each Pharaoh was known as "The Son of the Sun [god] Re." We find this in the line "Balu-Mer says to the Great King, 'My Lord: I fall at the feet of the Great King who is the Sun in the sky seven times seven times" (William L. Moran, The Amama Letters, "A Plea for Royal Concern" EA 260, Baltimore & London: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1987, 1992).

The development of the Jesus myth is merely taking the primary part of Jesus (Ie or Yeh) and fashioning it out of Egyptian theology to meet the needs of the primitive christians (two groups who had different ideas on "the Christ" over which the early church created by the Emperor Constantine warred for generations. The Holy Spirit was none other than Mary/Miriam, which is a transmogrification of Isis.

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Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 5 years ago from Iowa Author

Isis existed long before Nimrod's wife. You need to read universally of all the world's theologies, not just the mythology in the bible. Jesus is fiction--there is no historical proof that he existed; on the contrary, there is an abundance of historical artifcats showing that "Christ" was just the senior magi(cian) in Egypt who had the function of changing water into wine. This is 3000 years before the fictional New Testament that was written by scores of men and women in line with what the Emperor of the Roman Empire required. Even the bishop Eusebius of Cesaraea acknowledge that there was no Christian church before 325 CE (your AD).

As for Jesus dying, there is no evidence for it (and I am not citing the Book of Mormon) as there is no historical record that he ever lived (therefore he could not die). Josepheus records only "I have been told by others that a Christ..." he had no eyewitness account, and there is no other record to substantiate this very old myth. In reality there were over 36 different crucified saviors, the most common being Khrishna of India, where legend has it that the biblical Jesus spent his "exile" (non-recorded years) in India.

You are no god and have no right to judge (Matthew 7:1, cp. Acts 10:24), for I do have a doctorate in the Christian and Jewish bibles. As for blasphemy, that is an invention of the Middle Ages, as even the Jewish bible was not written until after "Jesus" died--and nowhere is this person mentioned. Try reading the redactions of the first through third century and find this figure mentioned by the various christeanos and christianos communities--and he does not appear. Jesus did not die as Jesus never lived. He is but a copy of Horus and the Greek god Vulgan "Son of the Father [Zeus]". The bible, that you read, is nothing less than bad plagiarism from over 100 different bibles of far older and wiser and more forgiving religions. May you have a wonderful day and time to study more than fiction.


orlansison profile image

orlansison 5 years ago from Pangasinan Philippines

Very logical...


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 5 years ago from Iowa Author

For thousands of years before any Yah-weh (actually an Egyptian goddess of sex) who celebrated a ritual with the invading Apiru god of agriculture, people believed in Zeus (Jupiter, Odin, and other names) as the ultimate being, with Re being the creator god. It is from the theological texts and bibles of these ancient religions that the mythology of Yahweh and ultimately Jesus was crafted. But over the first four centuries of the current era, the lives of these numerous Hebrew and Christian gods transmogrified between numerous redactions and revisions of texts written by a myriad of authors. It was not until the sixteenth century CE that the bible in its current format evolved, with the Protestants casting away six books that previously had always been considered holy.

I cannot find one historical shred of information to support the fantasy of a Jesus or Yahweh, any more than I can give credibility or acceptance to the ghostly figure of the Bedouin god Allah. Their religious rights are nothing more than plagiarisms from far older theological texts: from a Holy Trinity to a Holy Ghost, to Damnation and Salvation, and other absurdities.


simon kellog 4 years ago

What do u have definitive proof of? Who exactly can you prove, with 100 percent certainty, lived, and who was myth? Also, what do u want to believe?


Renan 4 years ago

this is the main question!!I try to study every culture...but every time i have also this question..how to interpret what is fiction? if there is one..and what sounds logical or "truth" point of view..why cultures of today just uses transkrypted acient belives??to make our religions? which group in the world keeps the real truth about all? and real interpretation of things who hapend? please a real answer...


Renan 4 years ago

and what's about spiritual beings? negative or positive progressive or regressive? what's about aliens..dimensions? chakras ..crop circles?? different phenomenas..chi power?? hypnosis? please try to answer thx very much mister


Response to Rene 4 years ago

Spirit implies some fantasma-a ghost, but a ghost is not a scientifically provable entity. Fact are relative but science continues through investigation and repeated experimentation that can be classified, codified, and evaluated by peers. There is no scientific evidence of any ghosts (positive or negative) as they cannot be weighed, balanced, dissected, and so forth. Crop circles are not the product of ghosts or gods but by living beings (which may include extraterrestrials--but they, too, have finite lives of variant lengths, but as of yet are not provable). Chi (the Greek for X) is but a philosophical point and philosophy is not provable: you cannot put your hand or any element into a philosophy--it is a mental exercise. What is real is that which can be seen, heard, touched, tasted, and so forth. We do know of black holes and Big Bang (Stephen Hawking) as we can determine dimensions, see items (stars, galaxies, etc) fall into them and not emerge, etc) but these are corporal and temporal/temporary in an ever expanding universe that has been trillions of years in making (not like the myth of a god creating the universe in six days--an ancient lie used to convince the illiterate/ignorant masses that the worthless priesthood who lived off the suffering and labors of others could control natural phenomenon. To argue like others that all must accept a single definition like the former Nazi Youth and future pope Josef Ratzinger, is a sign of fascism taking over and denying the conduct of inquiry. We need more mortals who live and die and contribute to knowledge like Galileo, Newton, Hawking, etc, not morons from Poland John Paul II who demand that science stop questioning the ignorance of the Roman Catholic Church (and Christianity once it was created by the Emperor Constantine in 325 CE at his council at Nicaea) when Hawking asked to see the scandalous records of Galileo's trial for heresy. There is no god, never has been a god, and will not be a god, as there is nothing omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent nor infallible (that myth arose 5000 years ago, equal to the legend of a woman in heaven with the stars at her head and the moon at her feet--the symbol not only of Isis but many of the Saxon deities). It is time to embrace science and close down the mosques, temples, synagogues, churches, etc. where ignorance is the message and the people are enslaved to fantasy.


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 4 years ago from Iowa Author

For hundreds of thousands of years mortals on the planet earth have attempted to determine truth and weed out fiction. Truth is relative and fiction is the cover for that which is not known. Truth requires constant investigation, questioning, inquiry, and the rejection of past suppositions that cannot be scientifically proven beyond a reason of a doubt. Since no deity can be proven to ever exist at any time, as that deity cannot be weighed, measured, analyzed, dissected, etc. it must be relegated to fiction or the garbage bin of confusion.

No religion has truth. All religions are the creations, primarily of men, that rely on the ignorance of an illiterate people who are afraid to ask why--thus there have been gods of thunder (Thor), gods of water (Neptune), gods of darkness (Sheaol and Irtn), and so forth--mere mortal weak attempts to explain what no one dared investigate. Most of the Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, are built on common myths: a jealous god who demands blood sacrifices (Abram and his first born [to Jews it is Jacob; to Muslims it is Ishmael; to Christians it is Jesus], who so hates his/her creations that he/she wages battle and total slaughter of dissenters (the agricultural god Yahweh, the god of pigs Allah, and the Jesus of Matthew 10:24) leading to a final battle between good and evil (Ahura [lord] Mazda [wisdom] and Marduk in Zoroastrianism, and Angra Mainyu and Spenta Mainyu the antecedentals for the Apocalypse of the insane John of Patmos in the horror of an apocalypse, etc).

Reality is what you make it; truth is what you determined. What is essential is that the human mind never stops questioning. Socrates taught his students to question everything and everyone--for that reason the Senate of Athens required him to commit suicide.

I rejected gods years ago and am much happier as now my time is spent in reading omniverously, and questioning everything. I am the master of my own fate, and while I did not determine the moment of my unfortunate birth (my mother did not want me and reminded me for more than sixty years that I should never have been born) I will determine the moment of my death by my own hand. People have free will--contrary to Jean Calvin of Geneva who reiterated the absurdity of predestination that has no biblical foundation. We are the masters of the universe and of our own lives. There is no need of any deity.


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 4 years ago from Iowa Author

Nothing can definitively be proven, for as the ancient Greeks noted: "Everything changes but change itself". You can step into a stream only once, for the stream changes so you can step onto the same spot but not into the same stream. Life is the pursuit of knowledge, for there is nothing firm, concrete, existing for ever--as even the universe is ever expanding and ultimately will implode and with it erase what we know.

I reject beliefs--all beliefs. I do not want to believe in anything. I seek to learn, to read, to investigate, to study, to advance my knowledge and this learning process will end when I end my life of this very insignificant planet that is the result of billions of years of evolution following the Big Bang. There are no gods.


Anonymous 4 years ago

Dr. Arthur Ide, can you explain the creation. How did the universe form into existence, how did it just appear out of no where without a designer?


Ms.Chinoy. 4 years ago

what do you have to say about Ahura Mazda and Zarathushtra?


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 4 years ago from Iowa Author

The universe began when matter met antimatter--to put it simply, but for a thorough explanation, "Anonymous" try reading any of the stellar works by Stephen Hawking of Cambridge University who discovered and explained not only Black Holes in the universe that consume dead and dying stars, but also wrote on the Big Bang. The fact that elements exist does not require nor need a god to move them, for god is an ancient word for "ignorance is the fate of mortals". Already, scientists are stating that they will find the "god particle" that initiated the explosion. God never has existed.

To Ms. Chinoy--Ahura Mazda was one of the dual gods in Zoroastrianism, from which later Apiru who became in time the Hebrews plagiarized and turned into the struggle between good and evil under the names of Jesus and Satan (the latter actually is an ancient word of Advocate and was the principle judge in heaven and the favored son according to the Babylonian myth known as Job). The Mormons, who have no foundation in scientific fact when the semiliterate Joseph Smith found the stones from the breastplate of Moses, read golden tablets and concluded that when Jesus rose from the dead he walked across the oceans and preached to the aborigines in North and South America. In these legends, mere fabrications from New Testament mythologies, gave the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints their eternal struggle between good and evil so that the "pure of heart" would go on to become gods and further populate all planets with unlimited sex. All religion is about sex, as with the quadesh of ancient Israel.


moino 4 years ago

Thanx for this article. I was very interested in the Yaweh bit. Did not know of links between that god and Egypt/the golden calf/cow-bull religion. I came across several theories about the origins of Yahweh: a mountain/lightning god from the Sinai (Yahooooo :-) or one of the Elohim-s of El in Phoenician religion who at some point was in a relationship with Asherah... It'd be interesting if someone could link all those sources and trace their developments throughtout time. Yahweh's genesis...


watergeek profile image

watergeek 4 years ago

My experience is that there is Life that flows like energy through every single thing. That energy is pure, strong, intelligent, loving, open, always flowing whole and complete. It creates by being Itself. It tamps down and objects form that reflect it, including planets, humans, and other forms of life, fully or half or other temporeal. They are all part of All That Is.

Every religion I've experienced and read about knows of this energy, has experienced it, and tried to describe it. Their different words for it (God in the English language) and ways of describing it all are true. This explains why so many descriptions from different religions throughout time sound similar. They're all stories made human that try to describe how we experience the loveliness, wonder, and power of this energy. We humans confuse things when we try to make ourselves seem better than others by condemning or mocking their descriptions/beliefs.


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 4 years ago from Iowa Author

You are correct, watergeek, and for those with time and language skills should check into the recurring pattern of water worship--from which this planet and its inhabitants emerged. Water has always been a life force, and it remains in constant change. To that end, water was the primary god/dess that even Hildegarde de Bigen of Germany wrote in the twelfth century (and was canonized in 2012 with her compositions on water hailed by Benedict XVI as being "mystic" and "divinely inspired"). What has happened over the eons is that each of the new religions devotees have created their own gods out of nature and pagan gods: thus the Roman Catholic mythologized the goddess of the waters and called her Anna so that an "immaculate virgin" (clear stream) could be born (the name was changed to Mary), and from that time to this, those who would do away with the gods of Gaia trample flora and murder fauna, polluting and cutting back on the life of the planet itself.


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 4 years ago from Iowa Author

"Michael the son of God" your name belies what you write. Michael was one of the many sons of gods: archangeles in Christianity, and angels in other faiths. His brothers include Gabri-el, Uri-el, Rafa-el, etc. and the "el" is an ancient semitic word of god (meaning each was a god or a son of a god).

I doubt we ever met. To feel for me is charitable, but to think that I have a miserable life is libelous at best. There is nothing empty about me or my life for life is what each makes it and I am full with reading, research, investigation. What is empty is blind faith that leaves a void in the intellect. You have nothing to explain as you offered not initial conversational points. Since I am but one person, if you truly knew Spanish (which I doubt) you cannot use "ustedes" as that is the plural form and unlike the gods I am but one man. I do not worry as thre is no afterlife, no one ever returned from the grave save the zombies found in the Gospel of Matthew and they are glosses added later. There is no real magic as reality works on the principles of mathematics and science--not fakery.


Miguel hijo de Dios (The Observer) 4 years ago

The fact that my name is Miguel doesn´t have anything to do with the mere fact that we are all son of God even if you dont believe in him. in the other hand we don´t have to exclusively meet each other for me to feel for a person, who in spite of being supposedly such an expert in religions and experienced in life as you are an old guy his meaning of life comes from researches, readings and investigations. How can ALL this fulfill you? don´t you have anyone to care for? children? a wife? a dog?.

My faith isn´t blind at all on the contrary, i find it very satisfying in an intellectual level. As

you said my life is what i make of it and it completes me as a conscience being and make me even more awared of who i am and what my purpose in THIS life is... i dont feel any void by existing in harmony with all that surrounds me, letting me perceive my family and close ones even when we are physically apart. I even enjoy how does a glass of water feel when i drink it.

I dont think that we have to meet each other in person for me to feel for a person i do not know but obviously doesn't have a clue (a square mind seeking answers?) a person who in spite of all his supposed knowledge have to use pure sciences to give the lie to all thing that can not be physically explained (measured) as you are a skeptical person and like there is no metaphysics explained for Aristotle as well in this so call reallity to tell everyone that what they FEEL AND EXPERIENCE is all false.

For the spanish plural word i´m sorry but i believe you are not the only one who´s reading this and therefore you are not the only person deserving of my blessings in my NATIVE language.

And as far as after-death is concerned i think it´s just too deep for someone who came up with the word zombie because perhaps there is no room at all for a simple thinking about the existence of a soul or energies just because dont have any color or an especific form.. so the real question will be, who is the blind one?

If there is nothing for you what are you looking for? "A blue pill"?

DE NUEVO BENDICIONES PARA TODOS USTEDES!


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 4 years ago from Iowa Author

Mortals created god(s)/goddess(es) to answer that which they could not explain as science was not developed. To that end Thor was the god of Thunder and the son of the god Odin (meaning creator in the ancient Scandinavian language from which Norwegian, Swedish, etc. will come). The story of gods is universal and plagiarize either openly or by reference from other god myths: thus "Jesus" was born in a cave (which even Joseph Ratzinger: "Benedict XVI" write in his latest book) as was the favored Roman Imperial Military's god Mithras. We find in the slaughtered saviours, numerous crucified ones (Jesus was actually pillored on a pole in the original Greek and never "hung on a cross": that was Dionysius). We find all of the followers (apostles) by a study of ancient zodiac mythology. These become the Apostles who had animal/human shapes and distinctions that flush out much found in the Gnostic Gospels of Jude, Thomas, etc. These same works, that the Emperor Constantine demanded to be burned (yet survived) tells us other intimate details, and all are matched by other religions--with some of the most interprising entreprenuers of religious fakery, like Joseph Smith Jr who created the fantasy of the "Gospel of Abraham" actually an ancient text on breathing (Smith knew no foreign languages especially hieroglyphics) merely is a retelling from 5015 BCE Egypt which is moved from ancient Ethiopian texts.

It is best for some people, such as me, to "give up childish things" (Paul in the Bible, Anazeticas in ancient Greece, etc.) and look to science where the Big Bang began everything and will eventually collapse back on to itself (Black Holes) and thus erase the need for gods who do not exist. I accept reality over speculation or childish beliefs as I have no faith in religion that is an opiate to too many people from time and its beginning.


watergeek profile image

watergeek 4 years ago

Is there a chance you are both right? Both looking at the same thing with very different eyes and describing it in a different "language," so to speak? I haven't found much different between the God people and the people of science, except that science people use time in a different way and are usually less derogatory than God believers. Yet aren't we all creations from the same ultimate source, however we label it? And don't we create in the same way? And didn't/doesn't that source create all things AND all ideas AND all observations AND all ways of describing life through us? Why are either of you condemning or judging the other? You're not wrong. You're just different. And there's nothing wrong and everything right about being different. If we were all the same, this would be a very boring life.


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 4 years ago from Iowa Author

The god myth has developed from manysources. Having written every year on the subject of the nativity, the Jesus of the New Testament is a composite of numerous ancient pagan sacrficed saviours. The life of the New Testament Jesus is similar to that of Dionysius, but his alleged birth follows the ontological theological arguments of Mithras (favored by the Roman soldiers) who was born in a cave (which is the real word for the "barn"), and laid in a manger (that was hewn rock); the magi (magicians in Egypt who were astrologers looking for a star that would enlighten them--but not with a child as the holy Trinity of Egypt (Osiris, Isis, Horus) was the recipient of the gifts for a "king", while the life is patterned after Saturnilia especially the feet washing, while the death scene is more in keeping with the vitae of Cesar (Julius), etc. It is a cute myth, but the lights apply to Dionysius and his love of gaity and represent the union of Zeus and Ganymede (the youth who so beguiled the king of the gods who was known as "Lord of Lords" that Zeus commanded that Ganymede's eyes "shine forever to chase away the darkness", and "bring peace in the time" as foretold by the three deities: IS[is, the creatrix of the world]-RA [the god of the sun or Son of God]-EL (the ultimate god of the people). From this we derive other sons such as Gabri-El, Rafa-El, Uri-El, Micha-El, and then in Babylonian days we find the Great Advocae who commanded all to come and learn (Satan means Advocate and is noun: a title, as read in Job 2:1). It is a delightful ful myth, and one that is enduring, but the lights are the joys in Ganymede's eyes when he caried "the full goblet" (had sex with Zeus) to "our Father in Heven"--which is also found in Akkadian lore (these are detailed in my articles on Christmas and Saturnalia, etc). The wandering in the wilderness/desert is the foundation for the legend of Muhammad who was, originally a rich man having married his benefactoress who was far older and allegedly found time to discuss theologies with the Jews of Mecca whom he believed would convert to his revisionist ideas of the agricutural god Allah and worship of Allah's three daughters (the "Satanic verses" in the Qur'am), tieing yet one more religion to the Gratest myth ever told. All mortals descend from theis interweaving to creat the oneness of mortals,the goal of all religions including Bahai that argues they are the ultimate religion in quest of fulfilling the Great Design of the Creatrix (Isis). Nice legends, cute stories, and not a word that is provable as being true.


Nehru 3 years ago

I am quoting what you have written "In reality there were over 36 different crucified saviors, the most common being Khrishna of India, where legend has it that the biblical Jesus spent his "exile" (non-recorded years) in India."

You may have doctorate of whatever, but that does make 'whatever' you say is the truth. I am from India, I have lived all my life here, son of the soil and a theologian. What you have written about Krishna

shows how ill informed, bogus-books oriented, ignorant and arrogantly-stupid you are. Knowledge puffs up . Beware one day you'll stand before your maker, whether you believe in Him or not.


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 3 years ago from Iowa Author

A theologian of what? If you were a theologian of any religion, you would know that "judgment belongs to god(s)" not to mortals. As for a "maker" Stephen Hawking of Cambridge University got rid of this myth with his book on the Big Bang and Black Holes, years ago.

The universe began with gravity activating negative and positive forces colliding. The days of a deity sitting on air and fashioning elements into sky, wind, rain, etc. is childrens stories.

As for Krishna and the Jesus connection, you do not read widely, as does a true scholar, but isolate yourself in the single text you believe is holy and unapproachable, but all holy writ is plagiarized from other tales, with the Old Testament being a combination of Egyptian and coptic legends, laws stolen from Hammurabi, etc. and much of Hinduism comes from tribal stories older than India. A common reference is Holger Kersten, and if you prefer German, Hindu or other texts that refute your claim, I will provide them.


anon 2 years ago

only one comment for me to make.

You forget dear doctor one thing. Science is largely theories. Almost everything you have referenced from Steven Hawking can not be proven. You and Mr. hawking both could argue its fact, but there's truly no way to prove the big bang theories or black holes, it's like your own version of faith. Math and science are both created by man and our own mind's. We can look at our fingers and say if i take two fingers and add them to these two fingers it makes a four. Can you physically see a two? you may say yes I can see two rocks or two dollars, but two is just a word made up by humans to describe an amount. Another example is mathematical formulas, we can prove them by using math, but because math was something created by human's we have to have faith that it's something that is universally true. Science is the same way, not everything in science can be proven, and even if it is able to be proven it's only proven by what the human mind believe's, or allows oneself to believe. Therefore you and any believers in religion are not so different. Both of you believe off of faith and what makes sense to you and your brain. We all have are own opinions, and explanations for the unexplained, but in both religion science and anything we humans live in we have to have faith that what we see or do is truly what we believe. nothing is fact except in one's own mind. thank you.


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

Based on your philosophy, existence itself is an illusion as there is no scientific proof that anything exists--this could just be a myth like religion. I have no problem with your philosophy but it, and even you, could be a figment of my mind. I prefer to think about what I can physically see, touch, taste, etc. God is an illusion as all gods have ever been from the primitive Allah who had three daughters and two sons, to the Pauline castigation of a man from a city that was never his home, to the idea that you won the lottery.

As for your disputation on numbers, it is true that all numbers and numerals were mortal made, but they have a value so that in any part of the world that knows Arabic numbers will read 2 + 2 and know, universally, that it is 4; the same as with those who read XVI + XC = CVI, again by convention.

Where you write "nothing is fact except in one's own mind" you contradict your self as you cannot prove that you exist (Kant) not can you prove what you think exist (Descartes) and therefore there is no proof that existence is in a stage or state. I prefer a more orderly existence, knowing when I have been hit or kissed as while both come with pressure, one is pain and the other pleasure. Enjoy your thinking prowess.


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

Horus, assuredly has many attributes equal to the Pauline Jesus in Constantine's New Testament as written over the past 1600 years, but the Jesus that too many people believe in also carries the attributes of the gods Bacchus, Cesar, Mithras, etc. One cannot solve this problem by turning to any contemporary bible any more than by going back to any of the Papyrus fragments housed around the world. There were no historical (eye-witness) accounts transcribed and/or published in what we now call the first century CE, so solid data is missing.

Otherwise, I do agree with you that nearly all religions are based on the very ancient theologies in Egypt and find far more comfort in the Trinity of Isis-Osiris-Horus that the "fathers of the church" transmogrified in 325 CE at the imperial Council of Nicaea that the emperor provided over while creating the fiction of Paul, who in "Acts" admits that he is the cause of the unrest and riots in Jerusalem, and not because of any man with the nickname of Jesus pushed off on the Jewish people.

Have a doctorate in the Bible and the other in theology, I am appreciative of your judgment that I error on the Holy Spirit (which one, Jar of Norway, Krshna of India, or others numbering over 10,000 around theworld), and I write extensively on the New Testament Jesus and show how the scrolls from Nag Hammadi and the Dead Sea, like the Egyptian fragments P have nothing that establishes the historicity or identity of the myth of Jesus. You cannot cite one book to prove the contents of that book. Scholarship requires that you check out all data philologically, data based, and quantitative, and Jesus does not measure up.

I do appreciate your comments, especially on sex, as that is the one thing that makes mortals "feel heaven." Do read about Astarte/Asherah and why it was essential that the ancient Apiru wed their pathetically petty agricultural god Yah to her to establish their hold on the land they stole: Canaan.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

Try reading any of my 37 books on Krishna, and I will be happy to chat about it. Or go to my website or just Google my name with Krishna or India, or words that are related.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

Enlighten One (I am certain you mean Enlightened One unless you are the deluxe of inspiration), I appreciate your comments, but I find errors within them that must be addressed. (1) Jesus is the nickname for Yahusha and was quite common in the first century CE as seen on many osuaries that litter Jerusalem, so there is no proof of any specific Jesus that substantiates the myths of the gospels. Actually, I do control my own destiny as I determine what I wish and do--you are repeating Augustinian predestination theses that came from Manichean ontology as Augustine of Hippo, when not with whores, practiced the faith of Mani.

Atheism has nothing to do with scholarship as scholarship is a science that investigates all things and is not subject to any authority. Religion is the denial of investigation and seeks to suppress the curious mind and the will to learn; there are many "religious confessors" in the scientific community, as "atheist" means "without the confines of a god distorting truth" and it is not only for those who do not need and/or reject a deity.

Satan (the Babylonian name means "Advocate" and in the old Babylonian story of Job was the favorite son of the gods (Job 2:1). There is no "Most High" as the name in Hebrew is Elohim and that translates as a plural noun into gods/goddesses, as even in the world of Islam, Allah had 5 daughters and 3 sons, and was an agricultural deity quite on the pattern of Cronus. It is not within your strength to define names and if it were then you too would be "afraid to even attempt to" recite them. That is a mythology from ancient Egypt that defined the name as not pronounceable that trickled into the Torah as the true name of Yahweh (Yah is a word that translates as calf, and reflects the cow god of Egypt, Islam and Hindu faiths). The idea that there is a "Most High" god (that exists nowhere except in 5th century CE redactions) or a Messiah (it is an old Armenian and later Hebrew word for "washed" or "anointed") is common in all religions as part of the spiritual blessing when someone cleans the body--in Arabic it is jihad that initially meant an inward cleansing of thoughts.

Satan cannot camouflage anything, as Satan by name and definition means "exposure of truth" and "revealer" and is the god who champions inquiry and exposes deceit and the camouflage of evil ontologies. Satan, in the form of a snake, appears not only as the god of health on all symbols but on ambulances, hospitals, etc; it is also the divine preacher in all Middle Eastern religions prior to 410 CE, and is found throughout Latin America among the Incas, Mayans, Aztecs, etc and always a divine benefactor.

Today's Hindus, especially in India, have little to no knowledge of their own illustrious and tolerant past but have been destroyed by the preachifications of Christianity that has disenabled the nation's conduct of inquiry. Even in the past, the snake was a symbol of fertility, loyalty, health, and education.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

Actually those are Egyptian words that sprang up with the invention of the Holy Trinity of Osirus-Isis-Horus that fourth century Paulinity adopted to create the fantasy of Christianity (Eusebius, Historia Ecclesia). Jesus was never a deity--the only mortal to acclaim that was Simon bar Jonas (Peter=rock) but there is no contemporary record giving it substance and there is no proof that a Peter ever existed as it is not recorded even by Trajan, Josepheus, etc. Such an idea predates the entire fabric of what became Christianity.

Atheism does not discount or reject religion but, as defined in the word, seeks merit in scientific inquiry and measured responses to fantasies current and past. It is ignorance that camouflages facts by claiming them to be fiction, while the religious attacks on critical thinking and investigative study are the true evils that attempt to stop inquiry.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

No scholar would ever be afraid to attempt to investigate and refute a fantasy, or to applaud a reality that can withstand an in-depth study and research. Only those who are intimidated by direct inquiry will assume that others are afraid to do research as the intimidated feel trapped when faced with scientific inquiry and its results. What is essential is to understand what exists and seek out that which does not exist, especially in the unprovable world of illusions that is the background of religion.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

Everything is theory; there are no facts as then the facts would be god(s). As Stephen Hawking noted, despite his stellar breakthrough on Black Holes in the 1970s, there still is no ultimate proof that his initial reasoning is correct and thus a week or so ago he rejected the apparent absolutism of his own thesis.

Like Hawking, I do not consider anything to be infallible or absolute and thus rejected a while back my own initial thesis on the Petrine doctrine (papal infallibility, primacy and supremacy) as it cannot be proven, was not even uttered until the fourth century CE, and was disclaimed by John Henry cardinal Newman at Vatican I when the distressed rogue pope Pius IX raised it to an article of faith in an attempt to dissuade, discount and deny "liberalism" in the "church" as the church itself was built on a myth in the creative mind of the Emperor Constantine I in 325 (Eusebius, Vita Constantini, IV:36-37).

Faith is a cop-out under the claim we need something to believe in to make our reasoning power seem stronger. No, reason is above faith and reason also knows it can be undone. It is faith that led to the Ptolemic concept of genocentricism, but the Polish monk Nicholas Copernicus discarded that when he moved man from the center of the universe to an inhabitant on a small water planet that circled the son and the advent of heliocentricism. Galileo confirmed it in the 17th century, yet it too is open to debate. There are no absolutes, only projections of possibilities as absolutes belong to a god or congregation of gods--that cannot be proven and therefore do not exist (Descartes).

I do not use faith to substantiate or sustain my arguments. I use reason and words based on what I research and understand. Faith is for children who think that when they see the fence cutting off their backyard that their plot of land is the world itself--only to be disappointed when they are a bit older and travel to other yards and realize that their land is not the only land. I find faith to be a great waste of time and energy--it is far better for people to question all things and rely on their inquisitorial nature and keep investigating without faith so that their understanding is not clouded or obfuscated by the fantasies of others--a point that even Saul of Tarsus' committee included in 1 Corinthians 13. It is the mind of man that created the image and power of god, and then to hide the success of the mortal gave birth to the lie that god created man in his own image--that has always had me puzzled as exactly what purpose does a penis and testicles do for a god who creates--the answer I discover is that it goes back to the worldwide myth of a Cronus who ate his own children so they could not see his man-parts and know he was but just a stronger mortal.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

There is no historical proof of a Jesus of Nazareth--there is no record in the Talmud, none among Romans stationed in Jerusalem, nothing in any gossip (such as Josephus), etc. Even the monotheism that Abrahamic religions claim to be their own is from the reign of the Pharaoh Akhenaten who was a younger son of Amenhotep III and Chief Queen Tiye and created monotheism around the son god Amun-Ra.

All dictators of all religions return to the bullywhip of divine intervention but that is not possible as that would make gods mortals. I encourage you to read deeper.


mat 2 years ago

So Steven Hawking wrote a book explaining the creation of the universe eh? He also believes in the existence of more advanced life forms as well. I must say a great deal of your comparative mythology is rather sloppy. Cronus never died period according to the myth he is immortal, he is defeated and imprisoned in tatarus. Jesus and India? Wtf to that one, seriously that concept comes directly out of your anus. There is no proof Jesus lived? Maybe, maybe not, are you telling me you are familiar with every document or historical account on Earth? It is impossible to prove a negative, so neither of us can say whether he existed or not. All is theory? I dont think so, there is indeed stone cold scientific evidence that our world has been influenced by life forms more advanced than we are now, if you were truly objective you would discover it, but unfortunately for you, you are not objective. I suggest you make a study of ancient megalithic structures and their connection with ancient paganism. Also, jc is mentioned in the talmud, it states he was an evil magician who liked the ladies and stirred up the mob with his magic, furthermore, it states he is currently in hell boiling in excrament. Oh yes, you seem to avoid the REAL root religion of both greece and egypt which is of course sumerian religion. It is ironic that plagiarism is your favorite accusation, because all im reading that you have written are feeble ideas written by others less feeble minded than yourself.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

Tatarus does not exist; I assume you mean tartaros "Tartaros, a Greek name for the under-world, esp. the abode of the damned ..." (Abbott-Smith, 1937, "A Manual Greek Lexicon of the New Testament," p.440) that only in later redactions (primarily by the cult of Jehovah's Witnesses has Jesus stationed there (antecedental to 2 Peter 2:1-4,9 that plagiarized the apocryphal Book of Enoch--also found in Roman mythology and that of Nordic theologies), and reading the Greek and later Jewish redactions I find no reference to Cronus being there, although he was the vile father of Zeus who ate his other children, much in the way that the ancient Yah cannibalized his children until the son weh (Yahweh) banished him and brought about the advent of Apiru mercenaries' Holocaust caused entire nations to be wiped away by the murderers Gideon and Joshua. All of this can be read in the original languages at Tartaroo 1 aor. etartarosa in Acusilaus Hist. [V BC] 8 ed. AJC. I p. 50; Philodemus, p. euseb. 32, 19 Gomp.; Jo. Lydus, Men. 4, 158 p. 174, 26 W.; cf. Sext. Empir., Pyrrh. Hypot. 3, 24, 210 o Zeus ton Kronon katetartarosen.

Having written several books on ancient megalithic structures and their relationship to paganism, I noted that many ancient worlds considered that the source of life was extra-terrestrial and would someday bring about the return of ancestors that were the foundation for the myths of the Nephalim (Genesis 6:4 and Book of Mormon). The references to Jesus in the Talmud have been rejected as later additions after 1661. In 1910, Hermann Strack wrote "Jesus, die Häretiker und die Christen nach den altesten judischen Angaben," that found no evidence of a historical Jesus in the Talmud. Cf. Schäefer, Peter, Jesus in the Talmud, Princeton University Press, 2007, p. 4.

I find your scholarship nonexistent: there is no evidence of you knowing or using ancient languages, you do not documents, and your arguments follow spurious screeds by Jehovah's Witnesses and other cults. I will be happy to debate you when there is concrete information buttressed by facts. I do read (and teach) Talmud, Bible, and ancient pagan cult theologies.


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SamiSwan 2 years ago from Dallas, TX

I find Mat's reference as Dr. Ide being "rather sloppy" to be hilarious. Since Dr. Ide is the most careful, diligent researcher and writer I’ve ever met, has more degrees than I can remember, has more published books on more subjects than I can count, and is a gifted and patient instructor, the notion of Mat and others like him posting these kind of comments really should concern me, but first I have to stop laughing.

All right, I’d like to reply to Mat’s statement: “. . . there is indeed stone cold scientific evidence that our world has been influenced by life forms more advanced than we are now.” Exactly WHAT is this undisputable proof? You know, I also watch “Ancient Aliens” and enjoy the program very much; in fact, I record the episodes to watch while I fall asleep at night. However, being enjoyable does not make them true. As much as I wish that aliens had visited our planet thousands of years ago and tweaked our DNA, there in fact is NO “stone cold evidence” of this that I know of. I’ve watched every one of those programs and read the books, too. Did I miss some evidence, or are you talking about something else? I’m not making fun here, I’m serious and want to know.

However, if you’re posting inflammatory statements to Dr. Ide just because you’re upset about what he writes, hold on a minute. Being upset or stirred up a bit by what you read, especially by a new way to look at “established facts” that are neither established or facts, is GOOD for you and your brain.

When someone is raised in one religion and taught not to question it, that’s no different from any other kind of propaganda. There’s an old saying in the Catholic Church: “Give me a child for the first six years of his life, and he’ll be Catholic in his heart forever.” It’s important to realize that, if you’ve been brought up as a Christian, then you have been indoctrinated in that belief system. It’s the same thing for most religions. It takes an exceptional person to be able to step back and see the entire picture – to see that one religion is no better or worse than another.

Because my parents disagreed about their beliefs, I was raised with no religious education whatsoever, so I grew up without those prejudices. I’m not an atheist, nor an agnostic. Whenever a form asks for my religion, I write “undeclared” because it’s none of anyone’s business. The fact is, I’ve had experiences that provoked my belief in God; I think She and I have a good relationship. I live by a code of ethics, of doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do - not because I'm afraid God might get mad. But organized religion has never been all that beneficial for the masses. So live and let live, and grow enough to understand that everyone believes just a little differently.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

Ms. Swan made many important points. I will address a few of them.

While it is quite common (and quite childish) to cast aspersions on anyone with whom another disagrees, it shows a lack of mental acuity and balance. As for religion, I was born into a strong evangelical christian home, was confirmed as a Lutheran (Missouri Synod), became Southern Baptist for a very beautiful girl (I know, everybody is convinced that I am gay), and when I had studied more converted to Roman Catholicism (and became a monk). I continued to study, realized the childishness of my early upbringing and lack of depth of my education, so branched out and learned languages, history, and more. In time I rejected my own thesis on papal infallibility, taught church history in a Roman Catholic university and published on saints, priests, and the Bible, then later (first mastering Arabic) I wrote on the Qur'an, women in Muslim communities, jihad, and so forth. Pushing myself to merit being awarded additional degrees in psychology (and psychiatry), the arts, sciences, and languages, I moved to question everything--then moved to teach in Peru where education is a commodity to buy and sell: most of the universities are as they were in Ecuador, degree mills. Languages were abysmal, so I wrote book on learning English, German, French, and so forth, but the students did not care as one young girl stated boldly to the university regional president: "I paid my money, now give me my degree"--and was furious when I failed her for lack of participation, no papers written, no tests taken, and so forth. Other students told me that since the funder (the individual who established the university to make money--there are less than five universities in all of Peru that exist to teach or strive to advance education) had taken them to Jockey Club for supper and promised all those who would work on his 2016 Presidential campaign (arguing that his brother is already president of Lambayeque, another brother and a sister sit in Congress in Lima, and brother Virgilio owns not only Colegio [Spanish for school, but now changed to College Bruning to give it an air of superiority for its kindergarten, primary and secondary schools] but created a university to make money, his family "from the land" was destined to be president of Peru--much like the savage off-spring of one-time ten-year dictator Alberto Fujimori (whom I wrote about at length). I have been repeatedly warned that assassins work for a few dollars and will kill their mother and that I would be targeted. So what? Life is a temporary existence when assembled atoms formed the body and when I die I will ultimately return from ashes to atomic matter and filter through the currently expanding universe.

While I write books on abortion, AIDS, etc. (I am a medical doctor), and on various breaches of law, and the suppression of the rights of minorities: women, LGBTQ people and people of color, etc., I find that even the troubling times in Ukraine (that gave birth to Russia in the late tenth century) are all enslaved by the scourge of religion. If there is a god, he/she/they is/are psychopathic demanding that a man surprise his male guests by cutting of the foreskins from their penis, to ordering one of the bloodiest Holocausts by the miscreants Gideon and Joshua. All of this goes back to the very heart of religion: the establishment of a Supreme Parent (no, they were not all males like Zeus, Yahweh, Ahura Mazda, etc, as there were women as with Asherah and Astarte) who gave birth in various ways and times, including the pre-Islam Allah who had three daughters and two sons, but always accompanied by cruelty, anger, bloodshed and rape (even little Ganymede did not avoid penetration).

You are welcome to visit my blog (no I do not own it, only contribute to it) that I was honored to have it adopt my name as its web address. You will find everything there complete with original documents in Afrikkaner, Arabic, Belgique, Castellaño, Danish, English, French and Finnish, German, Haitian, Hittitian, Indian Sanskrit, Japanese, Latvian and Latin (as well as its modern "counterpart" Romanian), Mongolian, Nigerian and Norwegian, Polish, Russian, Swedish, and Ukrainian, to mention a few. The documents are offered and those that are on-line are given links. This I was taught sixty-plus years ago was the rubric for academic excellence, critical thinking and composition, and genuine scholarship without hysterics. I write because I reject fantasies and falsehoods fabricated from personal goals. Try to write the same, and make each word count but one that is supported by facts.


mat 2 years ago

No I meant Tartarus, we are speaking English not greek. Well I do in fact have a double degree in anthropology and religion. The point of that argument is that cronus was immortal like all of the titans, and(with the exception of prometheus and his brother) were ALL imprisoned in tartarus, and regardless an immortal cannot be killed on a stake as you suggested. I would like to know your reference on that, tell me where it is written cronus was killed on a stake. So you conceded that jc was mentioned in the talmud, but this is disputed as a later addition, maybe, maybe not, but there are passages in the talmud that mention him, and most rabbis confirm this teaching true or not. Simple point is, you say he was not mentioned yet he was. Wow you teach classes and write books, im impressed. I absolutely reject mormonism and jehova's witness ideology, so try again to peg me. Im not christian or jewish or muslim. Tartarus does not exist eh? Jules Verne believed in underground realms teaming with life, I don't know if it exists, but we know very little about what lies beneath the Earth's crust, and many of Verne's predictions have indeed turned out to be accurate. We agree then that the ancients believed that the sacred megalithic sites were built by advanced life forms from another world, which correspond to their polytheistic beliefs. Well fantasies dont build monuments and neither to primitive troglodytes. Stone cold evidence exists all over the world, the mind boggling cronstructions that pepper our planet show clear indication of safisticated knowledge of math, physics, engineering, astronomy, and geology, if that isn't proof enough for you look in the mirror. You are NOT a ten time lottery winning mutated sea/space monkey, Dr. Francis Crick (who discovered the dna double helix) was adamant that Darwins theory (in terms of "the origin of species") could not be correct, modern homosapiens just suddenly appeared and began building cities as well as the previously mentioned mind boggling monuments. I will concede that the facts became legends and the legends became myths, and for thousands of years humans have conflated, twisted, and exploited these beliefs; however, no historical account is pure objective truth. History is a record of an account of the past. Take for example both the egyptian and sumerian kings lists. Scholars agree that the later kings of the list are accurate, yet the earliest kings on the lists supposedly ruled for tens of thousands of years, this defies the scholars' paradigms, so what conclusion do they desperately leap to? Oh that is fantasy/mythology. So the admit the lists are partially accurate, but the parts they cannot wrap their minds around must be some persons fantasy. Ironically, that is delusional.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

What Dr. Francis Crick are you ranting about? The Dr. Francis Crick I knew (the joy of being old) died nine years ago, and the distinguished Noble winner was an advocate for the establishment of Darwin Day as a British national holiday and in no paper or book that I read claimed Darwin's theory was wrong: Amicus Curiae Brief of 72 Nobel Laureates, 17 State Academies of Science, and 7 Other Scientific Organization in Support of Appellees filed in the case Edwards v. Aguillard before the U.S. Supreme Court (1986).

No reputable scientist of any branch of learning rejects studying phenomenon, as there remains a plethora of questions where the answers remain elusive. The scientist rejects that which cannot and does not respond to constant testing--as I have rejected the theses of several books I wrote 50 years ago.

Facts become only legends because the origin and growth of the facts makes those who are afraid to open their mind and learn uncomfortable. If you had read some of the books I authored 50 years ago, you would see that even then I argued for the plausibility and viability of extraterrestrials coming to earth and because of superior intelligence and freedom to act were acclaimed gods--much in the same manner that successful generals and later Roman Emperors were deified.

Since I have translated (and published) numerous lists of sovereigns (there were queens, I am sure you accept that) in Egypt, Samaria, Sumeria, Canaan, etc. and sometimes they are intermixed. Some of this is done to create an aura around a subordinate group as with the massive plagiarism of John who was exited to the island of Patmos to pen his torrid tome on the End Time Battle, embellishing the theft of the not-to-real prophet Isaiah's account of Armageddon that came by reintroducing with a twist the war record of Thutmosis III in 1472 to recount his successful battle against the assembled kings at Megido. Those who cannot think for themselves or reach out to strike those who oppose them (as with Billy and Franklin Graham--two obfuscating twits) will dredge up that is not historically based. It is incumbent on today's scholars as with scholars for all times to investigate and research before putting pen to paper.

Try not to lose your reader by writing in a flurried hurry, merging all words into one Teutonic paragraph that is incomprehensible. Break apart your information and format it logically. Capitalization is important as are the words themselves as every word is both a noun and a verb--and misused lead to many a merry moment, as with "history is a record": but is it a disc such as a CD, or a written tract? and is it played or read, etc.

Good luck.


mirrorman 2 years ago

I agree with mat that the gods of religion were inspired not by the

imaginations of mankind, but by advanced, non human life forms. It is also true that the nobel prize winner Dr. Francis Crick along with Hawking and many other distuingished scientists believe or did believe in the existence of such life forms; furthermore, in the 60s Crick indeed believed that abiogenesis (the theory that life originated out of lifeless matter) was impossible, and suggested that directed panspermia (the theory that life was imported from another world) was more valid.

So doctor, do you believe in advanced life elsewhere in the universe? If so is it not indeed possible that the similiarities in mythology, and the gaps in our scientific understandings of human origins, could all be explained and to some extent the myths of gods, hybrids, and monsters vindicated?

Surely you must concede that such a notion is desperately avoided by conventional science. Only in the last decade or so have conventional scientists sheeplishly admitted that in a universe so vast, with so many countless star systems along with the probability of the universe being multidimensional, we are surely not the only intelligent life forms. And if our galaxy, other galaxies, or other dimensions are inhabited, these intelligent life forms could exceed our capabilities and understanding by light-years. This would neatly explain ancient mankind's quantum leaps in civilization as well as their obsession with the 'gods'. Would it not?


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

A true scientist remains open to everything and is committed to explore all avenues in quest of obtain what can be the most current theory (there are no facts, as "facts" are subject to inquiry and debate and change as new advances in scientific inquiry demands new thinking. I, personally, have never believed in any absolute and will never accept the idiocy of infallibility in anyone person (to my personal shame, I wrote a dissertation defending infallibility, but since then, and with more study I have denounced it and Christianity in favor of continuous investigation and research). Yes, there may new life forms not yet discovered. Yes, it is quite possible that there exists a parallel universe (I am grateful for Pullman's Dark Materials for pushing me beyond the narrow pig stye of evangelical fundamentalist fanaticism over a revealed gospel), and I also affirm that since all gods/goddesses (easily intertwined and merged together as with the god of masturbation (Atom) in ancient Egypt who not only sought pleasure but could lead to procreation after the creation efforts of the mother goddess Isis) exist in plural format and are found in all civilizations as with Hera and Juno, Jupiter and Zeus, etc. there can easily be similar deities or excuses for such deities to alleviate the thinking forms on other planets who are in existence.

Personally, in my own reflections, I find the quaint tale of Ganymede (he was not a child but a Trojan youth who was "abducted" to become the cup-bearer to the gods) who carried a hallucinogenic drink so others could enter the realm of the gods (heaven), as was more of a statement of humans flying than any pedophile desire on the part of Zeus (who was the pilot), as Ganymede in ancient Greek is literally "rejoicing in his virility," from ganymai "I rejoice, am glad" (χαίρω) + medea (pl.) "counsels, plans, cunning" (συμβουλεύει τα σχέδια). The same is true with Diana (Αρτέμη that is actually Artemis) and her shower of gold, indicating not prostitution but the governance of coinage and advance of commerce; it is the foundation of myths such as a man called Peter (Πέτρος ) and a stone (πέτρα ). These thoughts require severe arguments founded on philology, logic, and more. One must not approach the unknown totally ignorant as with most who are faith based, but enter open to knew understanding and willingness to discard old broken jars in favor of new vessels of knowledge.


Jay 2 years ago

Thanks to all contributors to this conversation - it's fascinating.

Dr Ide, I'd like to put a couple of questions to you specifically if you don't mind? (And I'd welcome responses from others too):

A view which I think is endorsed by Prof Hawking is the strong likelihood of "other" forms of life to those we are familiar with in this vast (and mostly unexplored) universe, and that those other species are likely to me much more developed than ours (I think his point was that we should probably try to avoid contact as it would pose an existential risk to humanity). In view of the array of inter-connected creation/god "myths/legends" which, although understandably somewhat distorted over time, appear to be fairly consistent across various time periods, cultures, and languages, is it not therefore just as likely (if not more so) that we humans (and potentially the earth and all life we know of) were "created" by some other sentient being(s), rather than independently evolving alongside them?

I know that this still doesn't answer the question of where these other life forms are supposed to have come from, and I know there's precious little evidence to support this view, let alone any proof - but on the other hand, whilst we have plenty of proof that sentient beings can create (or at least rearrange) inanimate objects and even replicate life forms, we don't have any proof that inanimate objects can create life, intelligence, or consciousness.

My second question (actually a collection of connected questions) relates to your clearly vast knowledge of all these myths/legends in relation to god(s) and creation. There are clearly common themes; do they have a common "ending theme" or prophesy? Do they all say that the same god(s), for example Jahweh/Allah/Zeus/Thor will emerge victorious, or do they have alternate "endings"? If there are discrepancies, which outcome would you say is most fitting - I'm not asking you to answer as if it's a true story, but from an aesthetic point of view, if it were a novel with lots of competing endings, which ending would fit the story best? (I'm not asking for your preferred ending, I'm asking which one would appear to fit the story best, when taking into account all elements of the collective stories - if there are several, presumably some of them seem more ill-fitting than others).

Finally, are there any "warnings" or "lessons" contained in these stories which particularly stand out to you, which a new character entering the story on a quest for knowledge would do well to heed?!

I look forward to your response(s), thank you again.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

Thank you for your well-thought-through questions, and yes, they are interconnected. I agree with Professor Hawking. It is absurd to think that life only exists on this very small planet. Based on Higgs-Bosin, and the Belgian priest's (Monseigneur Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître) research and hypothesis of Big Bang, it is obvious that life was generated by the explosion of force (to many that is god, but not in the theological sense but the philological reality of initial force, but after which it is like the Great Watchmaker of the philosophes of the eighteenth century) not some old man who sits on the universe (why any god needs sexual apparatus is beyond me, and what would this god do with a penis and testicles is ludicrous at best).

You are correct that the creation myth and other myths found in the current canon of the Bible follow the precedence of past ontologies, philosophies and thoughts. Creation is found from China to South America and everywhere else, and the story is basically the same but with delicate nuances. The same is true of prophecies and even savior gods and goddesses from Oestre (goddess) to Mithras (Roman god), Osiris (Egyptian god and part of the Trinity of Osiris-Isis-Horus), Krishna (The anointed of India), etc. However there are slight variants, and all were carried to other civilizations by merchants--much in the same way that Islam adopted and slightly transmogrified the fairy tales of the Bible (you will find in the Qur'an tales of Jesus, Noah, Mary, etc, as well as the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus, the daughters and sons of Allah [the "Satanic Verses"], etc) .

All of these accounts do have warriors and End Times and Ultimate Battle as with the war between Marduk and Ahura Mazda (also known as Ohrmazd, Ahuramazda, Hourmazd, Hormazd, and Hurmuz, Lord or simply as spirit) is the Avestan name for a higher spirit of the Old Iranian religion who was proclaimed as the uncreated spirit by Zoroaster, the founder of Zoroastrianism.

Ahura Mazda is described as the highest spirit of worship in Zoroastrianism but even this has an antecedent in vouruna-mitra, or Vedic demigod Varuna. Ahura Mazda is also known as Yasna, that is the forerunner of Yahweh that is a development of the calf god of Egypt (Yah) and Weh. The literal meaning of the word Ahura means light and Mazda means wisdom, which in the western world is Lux and Sophia. The battles are different however. Ahura Mazda will battle Aka Manah (the word translates as Evil One) and is attributed to human beings (Yasna 33.4). The battle is over possession of the universe (earth) and evil thinking when people misuse intelligence to destroy the land and climate: term is angra mainyu "destructive spirit," and correlates with akem manah that may also be equated with acishtem manah "worst thinking".

The only warnings that I see ("lessons" if you will) is the ignorance and stupidity of mortals who destroy Gaia (the planet) and assume they have dominion over the Earth (a horrid expostulation in Genesis 1:26-28, that has two myths: man is to subdue nature and rule over it and take from it (climate change pollution, denouement of vegetation by strip mining, cannibalism of non-renewable resources, etc), and the absurd translation of "multiply" as we have no record of any mathematicians or mathematical understanding before 1000 BCE (the word actually means "to increase knowledge" with the woman being the superior person as shown when the creative force (the definition of Eve) debates in symposium with the serpent -- not Satan) while man is more worried about sewing an apron to cover his testicles (they were symbolic of the earth and moon, the penis is symbolic of a rod of power: e.g. Rod of Jesse).

Instead of focusing on a Jesus as "the Lord" (it is El meaning lord, man, husband, and is sexual in nature), people should concentrate on protecting this planet not looking for others to rape.

Good questions. Thank you for your contribution. I hope this helps; I will be happy to answer any academic question.


Sami Swan Thompson 2 years ago

I like the way you tie all of that together! But I'm still confused about one thing. Since I wasn’t raised with religion, I believe I’m responsible for my own mistakes, and I do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do, not because I’m worried that God might get mad at me. I don’t understand how adults can believe that they can avoid responsibility for their own actions because “Jesus died for their sins.” Even if I had that option, I wouldn’t want anyone to be martyred so that I could be an eternally irresponsible child. How could a loving, compassionate person want that?


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Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

Dear Ms. Thompson,

Thank you for your excellent comment. No one should ever be worried about some legendary god thinks as god does not exist, nor does sin. Sin is an invention in the second millennium BCE. It was not universal. We do know that the priestly class created it to cash in on gullibility as those who felt they had a transgression paid premiums (food, sex, water, currency, etc. depending on the location of the religion and the alleged sinner). It is absurd to think that some god is watching you, and that is why the Torah, Prophets and Writings (Old Testament) invented cherubim with a thousand or more eyes per monster, and then covered them with four wings that also had eyes. Ezekiel 10:12 "Their entire bodies, including their backs, their hands and their wings, were completely full of eyes, as were their four wheels." : וכל־בשרם וגבהם וידיהם וכנפיהם והאופנים מלאים עינים סביב לארבעתם אופניהם׃ and it came over from ancient Babylon and Sumeria, with a short stay in Samaria and what is today Syria.

According to ancient societies where philosophy was paramount and religion and gods were considered a joke, as with Socrates: "To believe in gods the person must be a god". Plato is recorded to muse satirically: "He was a wise man who invented God." Furthermore, Socrates taught that the individual is solely responsible for his own acts and transgressions (women were not included as they were not considered to be rational and educable beings).

Thank you for your rigorous and insightful comment.


Maalik 2 years ago

Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ said,

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّبِعُ كُلَّ شَيْطَانٍ مَّرِيدٍ

And among mankind is he who disputes concerning Allah, without knowledge, and follows every rebellious Shaitan (devil) (devoid of every kind of good).

كُتِبَ عَلَيْهِ أَنَّهُ مَن تَوَلَّاهُ فَأَنَّهُ يُضِلُّهُ وَيَهْدِيهِ إِلَىٰ عَذَابِ السَّعِيرِ

For him it is decreed that whosoever follows him, he will mislead him, and will drive him to the torment of the Fire.

Qur'aan Surah al-Hajj Ayat 3-4


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

Islam was created by Muhammad who spoke with Jewish and Christian merchants in Mecca, taking parts of their text plus those of other older records (such as the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus), to create his own holy book: Qur'an. The infamous Torment of Fire comes from the ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead, and the very family of Allah, originally a petty agricultural god, was a composite of children (male and female) that included many other Middle Eastern deities including Asherah, Astarte, and so forth. (S53:19/20: Uzzah; Lat; Manat.)

The Goddesses Al-Uzza, Al-Lat and Manat formed a triad in pre-Islamic Arabia. The three were worshipped as uncut aniconic stones. They were widely worshipped: from Nabatean Petra in the North to the legendary Kingdoms of Arabia Felix in the South, including Saba, the Biblical Sheba; as far east as Iran and Palmyra; and the three of them were very popular Goddesses in Mecca at the time of Muhammad.

It is an uncontestable fact that Muhammad was born of pagan parents. His father, Abdullah and his mother, Amina were both pagans and they used to worship many idols. His entire childhood (probably up to his teen) was spent in paganism. To this day, many Muslims find it extremely hard to digest this fact. However, Muhammad's pagan origin is disclosed by Hisham ibn al-Kalbi, writes: 'We have been told that the Apostle of Allah once mentioned al-Uzza saying, "I have offered a white sheep to al-'Uzza, while I was a follower of the religion of my people." (Hisham al-Kalbi, Kitab al-Asnam (Book of Idols) , p.17)

The daughters make up the Satanic Verses, but these were never repudiated by Muhammad. Those who disclaim this fact are those who are misleading the people. Islam has not always been monotheists.


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 2 years ago from Iowa Author

This blog entry is for a healthy debate, not for proselytization nor for evangelizing or any similar tract. To quote any book verbatim ad nausea is a disservice to readers, as those who care to read tracts can find most in any good library. If those who wish to comment want to cite a passage or a reference work, give the citation following MLA/Chicago style and I will approve it. If the purpose of those who want to debate is to argue that a particular god or goddess is of note, it must be a reasoned debate not regurgitation of text (do that in a footnote or begin your own blog).


Mathaias 23 months ago

Dr. Ide,

You say, and I quote, "As for Jesus dying, there is no evidence for it (and I am not citing the Book of Mormon) as there is no historical record that he ever lived (therefore he could not die)."

Might I refer to the writings of Tacitus - namely Annals XV, 44.

"Christus, the founder of the [Christian] name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius. But the

pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, by through the city of

Rome also."

At the time of Tacitus, it was punishable by death for any Roman historian to say/record anything that would not suit the Roman Empire. Therefore, given that Christians were being slaughtered for their beliefs and the religion suppressed, Rome had no use for accepting the truth behind the death of Christ apart from proving to the populous that they were capable of being truthful and should be trusted.

Additionally, Tacitus was known for attaching a "disclaimer" to his records. If he believed something to be unsubstantiated or folklore, he would have issued his usual "this account is unverified" line, however he didn't in this case, meaning he believed it to be a true and accurate record.

Tacitus also did not particularly like Christianity, hence his calling it a "superstition" so it's also apparent that he wasn't swayed by Christians or their sources to make it appear in a "good light".

Finally, before making such a claim as you have, please also refer to the following historical accounts as well:

Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus ~ Life of Claudius 25.4

Thallus ~ Chronography XVIII, 47

Pliny the Younger ~ Pliny's letter to Emperor Trajan

The works of Celsus (an avid opponent of Christianity)

Lucian of Samosata ~ The Death of Peregrinus 11-13

All of the above sources have two things in common, they all confirm that the Christ existed and they are all secular sources with no religious influence.

Please do not think that I am removing (or attempting to remove) your right to an opinion, I am not, everyone is welcome to whichever opinion they believe. That is what makes for a healthy mix of identities and philosophies after all. However, please do not make bold statements which have been proven by many to be false, as it does not help your cause.

~ Mathaias


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 23 months ago from Iowa Author

The lines you cite were inserted in the eighth century. There is no original copy of Tacitus that survived the ravishes of the the Emperor Constantine's Council of Nicaea in 325 CE when he created his "catholic [universal] church" as Eusebius notes in Ἐκκλησιαστικὴ ἱστορία; Latin: Historia Ecclesiastica, in an effort to justify the "faith of the emperor". To accomplish this, Eusebius notes that Constantine had "all the books that were displeasing to the Emperor to be brought before him and burned so that no heresy was left standing", as well as exiling all opponents, especially the worthy and scholarly Arius "the presbyter". This is seen in numerous early medieval glosses in pictographic art and other illustrations. Furthermore, we have detailed studies of how scriptorium inserted letters and words in ancient texts, including in the earliest copies of Tacitus. Francis Newton states that it is likely that Annals 11-16 were in Monte Cassino during the first half of the rule of Abbot Desiderius (1058–1087) who later became Pope Victor III. These were published in 1515. Consider: Polydore Hochart 1890, De L'Authenticité Des Annales Et Des Histoires de Tacite republished by Bibliobazar, 2009. The forgeries inserted into Tacitus' "Annals" is clearly seen and discussed in Georg Andresen in "Wochenschrift fur klassische Philologie" 19, 1902, col. 780f.

Tacitus had no time for "chrestianos" (Christians). He referred to them as "hated for their shameful acts" and rejected them as a serious faith. (Read commentary here: Van Voorst, Robert E (2000). "Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence." Grand Rapids: Eerdmans Publishing. pages 44-48.) The major problem is that Tacitus does not reveal the source for this insertion, whereas he always did for all other commentary, leading most scholars to rejecting Tacitus as valid or vital. (Read: F.F. Bruce (1974), "Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, p. 23.) A copy of the forgery and additional discussion can be seen here: http://www.arthuride.com/chrestianos-christianos-j... Jesus was, possibly, a man, but a son of god or a messiah was a myth.


agblezemayor 21 months ago

The Anlo-Ewe who claimed to have migrated all the way from Egypt, across the Sahara and along the River Niger, to their present abode in the eastern gulf coast of Ghana, worship many deity-gods. Many of which truly has some similarities to the gods worshiped by the Egyptians in prehistory. Yeweh as Yaweh; Torhunor a thunder; Da a snake god; Tormi Mermaid/Mermen god, Egu iron god, Afa/Ifa a divinity based on 256x256 binary computation and all.

Dr. Ide, we would be grateful, if you can lend a hand in putting this in circular knowledge.


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 21 months ago from Iowa Author

All god-myths take clues from other god-myths, as both commercial travelers and even "tourists" (read Strabo, γεωγραφία [Geographia]) have always traveled and entertained or tried to persuade people to believe in "god." It is how Islam was invented when Muhammad listened to the stories of Jews and Christians in Mecca, and got rid of the Allah who had no less than three daughters and two sons (Koran Sura 53:19/20), and how the Christians of the fourth century incorporated the ancient Egyptian theology of Heaven, Hell, End Times, Last Judgment, Trinity, etc. on command of the Emperor Constantine's Council of Nicaea (Eusebius, Vita Constantini, and Eusebius, Ιστορία της Εκκλησίας), Protestantism is based on Roman Catholicism, etc. Torhunor is the god Thor, the Snake god(dess) spans all religions in "South" America and was the god(dess) of Wisdom who was the First Woman (who was known by a variety of names including Isis, Eve, etc.). Most of these come from central Africa, as is the source for Enoch, Ezekiel and Jesus.


Ahab ben Israel 16 months ago

Colossians 2:8King James Version (KJV)

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

1 Timothy 6:20King James Version (KJV)

20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 16 months ago from Iowa Author

There is no existing record of Jesus writing anything. He was illiterate and so like a child drew pictures in the sand. "St. Paul" is a myth. No "christain" would accept him and this legendary figure had to proclaim himself an apostle but no one in the Upper Room accepted him and there is no evidence he wrote the letters ascribed to his authorship.

The epistles were written long before the gospels. They are weak attempts to bring Greek philosophy into the early communities that became called Christian after the third century. The Gospels were written to fill out the gaps in the epistles none of which discuss the life of any Jesus, nor give any of Jesus' words that are only found in the Gospels: Sermon on the Mount, Sermon in the Valley, etc.

Most of Colossians is a bad plagiarism form ancient Greek sources. Two of the substantial interpolations which are in Colossians are largely defined as fraud because of the large proportion of "hapax legomena" that they contain. They are the vocabulary of the "Colossian heresy". Cf. by a Christian theologian: "Jesus Christ and Mythology, (London, 1960).

Papyrus 46 ( \mathfrak{P}46) that is the first record we have is dated late 2nd century or 3rd century CE (Rylands Library).

The alleged letter to Timothy is equally a forgery. It is found in no ancient manuscript before it appears in Codex Sinaiticus (written 350 CE).

Your citations are apologetics but not historical and a philological study proves them false. Errors in Colossians are many, in syntax, word order, etc. Scholars suggest that it was written from Caesarea or Ephesus (Wright, N. T., Colossians and Philemon, Tyndale New Testament Commentaries (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1986), pp. 34–39.). Timothy was not written before the fourth century CE, and appears only in Codex Sinaiticus (Greek: Σιναϊτικός Κώδικας, Hebrew: קודקס סינאיטיקוס‎; the Codex Sinaiticus came to the attention of scholars in the 19th century at the Saint Catherine's Monastery, with further material discovered in the 20th and 21st centuries. Your citations only prove you have read a 17th century (1611) work crafted by lawyers for King James VI (Scotland) and I (UK). KJV is beautiful literature but badly translated (it alone has "unicorns"--a bad translation of "oxen"). There is no historical record written at the time of the life of a Jesus. He was just another myth.


abdul 11 months ago

dr ide i just seen a document with steven hawkings an he now says he believes in god has your view changed


Dr. Arthur Ide profile image

Dr. Arthur Ide 11 months ago from Iowa Author

Abdul, I do not know what you saw, or in what language, but if you have a basic knowledge of English, Stephen Hawking shows convincingly and conclusively that there is no reason for a god to exist, as in this documentary that uses physics, logic, etc. to debunk the myth of any deity be it Allah, Jesus, Mithra, or any in the pantheon of ignorance. Please watch and you can speed up the slow speech of Hawking by setting it to 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj0NL2r6cnU

I definitely do not believe in anything, as I am a scientist, doctor, and critical thinker. God does not exist as that does not compute in any science. The world began more than 500 million years ago and life is the product of evolution and a remixing of elements. No divine hand. No need for a virgin birth, as all gods had children as the ancient word for god was known to be parent (singular and plural) as was the case for Allah who had no less than three daughters: Koran 53:19-20. The Goddesses Al-Uzza, Al-Lat and Manat formed a triad in pre-Islamic Arabia.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 11 months ago from Iowa Author

I know of no legitimate well-educated scientist who believes in god or believes in anything. Scientists ask questions, not seek out mythological responses.


Donny 10 months ago

All those gods were never exist. So does your god.


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Dr. Arthur Ide 10 months ago from Iowa Author

I have no god. No god or goddess exists. I accept science of mythology.


Donny 4 months ago

I mean their god, Dr :D

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