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When one visualizes their timeline the first incarnation may be free will but all other incarnations are compounded by the karma to the first so the concept of freewill exists but every following incarnation is controlled by predestination.
The way how the Hindu religion explains karma is morally and has the purpose to control the population. The Law of Cause and Effect is what underlies to Karma. To drop a claim how this exactly works is pretentious. You must simply believe in it.
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Elijah Alfred says
"The unwise man-em-mass will generally believe they have freewill although they do not." Are you saying it wasn't up to you to post an answer to this question? Is not suicide an act of free will? Having choices is free will! Having none isn't.
Suicide is not an act of free will, every life-force must experience it as both genders. The only possible freewill would be to choose one's first incarnation, once that incarnation is made everything is preordained to include at least 2 suicides.
"Suicide is not an act of free will" Seriously?
Whether one decides to take their own life or not is the ultimate example of free will.
No one is making you live just as no one makes you eat meat or whatever. You (choose)! It's not preordained.
So according to you its predestined what your next incarnation will be. To say that free will does not exist is an excuse to murder and rape and then say:I had no choice in the matter it wasn't my fold. I was programmed by higher powers to do so.
PS, Each life-force is predestined to murder/be killed, rape/be raped, molest/be molested as many times as they do either one of every possible scenario any life-force does, it's the learning process to know every condition any life type endures.
So murder and rape is a learning process!! What kind of excuse is that!!! Tell that to the victim. Your just got gang raped, it's your fault it happened, you have to learn something in life....get real.
How odd it may appear, Elijah Alfred has actually a point there. You're right that it unexplainable to the victims. But when you're able to lift it from the level of the great illusion to the spiritual level the whole picture changes.
Elijah, Believing in fate/destiny is a convenient excuse for not being pro-active in making decisions in one's life. According to you there should be no jails because (people) aren't responsible for their actions. It was all preordained!
The spiritual level is believing without evidence. that's the same as illusion. I do not buy it that murder or rape is spiritual in any way. People who say that they are higher on the spiritual ladder are simply arrogant , like priests and gurus.
I agree with you when it comes to the pretentious claims many spirituals are making. But there is mathematical prove for the spiritual level. And that's certainly no illusion. Materialistic science is an illusion though...
Prove and spirituality are a contradiction. If there was prove a god existed nobody would believe but know. And to use quantum mechanics as a backbone for a spiritual world is simplistic.True materialistic science is dead and an old fashioned concept
The Pythagorean Illuminati have recently spilled the beans to the general public, because the timing was right. There you can find everything you need to know. Your claim that spirituality and prove are at odds is not correct. Math is all you need...
Sounds interesting I'll have a look at it. Yes math and spirituality are old friends. I'm an artist and not religious but consider art as spiritual as well at times but more in a sense of a deeper level of beauty....or something like that ;-)
Everything any man do is written in their DNA, there is proof for anyone who doesn't accept my statement. To find proof of anything one must incorporate everything known to man to find evidence & substance to support the unseen.
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Norine Williams says
There are no unbelievers, believe is accepting something needing proof, we all do but truth seekers, realizing they have no proof begin seriously searching of answers. Believers accept free will, truth seekers, the faithful (Heb 11:1), seeks proof.
Tell the Atheist "There r no unbelievers..."
Heb 11:1 contradicts ur statement"..the faithful seeks proof." It says "..hoped for, the evidence of thgs not seen.." Why "seek proof" when unseen? Believers need faith!
Did Jesus have "free will?
Everyone believes something but few people are faithful enough to seek proof of what they believe. Believing precedes being faithful, the FAITHFUL FINDS PROOF IN SUPPORT OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE, thus, there are no nonbelievers but many unfaithful.
Eli: I'm talking "Spiritual!" Yes, everyone "blv" in something, but belief in "GOD" is what I'm referring to! Even JESUS said "Not my WILL, but thine be done!" Does that sound like "free will" when IN Christ? ALL talk carnally when it's Spiritual!
Do you believe to the point that you say "not my will but thine" to father? Have father shown you enough evidence and substance that you can surrender your every will to it for it to guide your every action? If not, you have no faith, only believe.
"Believing" in "rightly divided Word" rather than having "faith" in Word "out of context," is a start in the right direction! Like reading a map, if headed the wrong way, still LOST no matter how much "faith!"
We're ALL "growing!" II Cor 3:18!
By your words I can say YOU ARE TRUELY LOST.
The arrogance of men..
Eli: My words? R u still bringing "sacrifices?" That has been "rightly divided" (I hope)! If u do, headed in "wrong direction!" We MUST cont to "grow!" II Cor 3:18!
Pete: "Arrogance?" Why don't us "study to see if these those r so" vs. "judging?"
It is an act of ignorance, Elijah Alfred, telling that someone is lost because he doesn't adopt your position of faith. What you might not realize is that condemning others is one of the many faces of Maya.
Build: I wouldn't mine IF Eli had "proof" (as I've given) fm the Word of God of his faith, but his belief is totally "against" Scripture! All I've said is under NC we r 2 "do as the Apostles did" since JESUS was talking thru them in which he disagre
I praise Elijah for his choice to reject any scriptures.
My Bible (Scriptures/belief) says so does Satan!
Jm 2:19 Satan "trembles!"
So God and the Devil and all the believers don't have free will but all the atheist do have free will.!! Wow am I glad I have free will and can choose in my live and be responsible for my actions. Good or bad.
Everyone has free will, whether they like it or not. No scripture, No Demiurge or any Karma can change that. There is though Cause and Effect that has many (meta)physical levels, but that still doesn't change the fact of free will.
Well said buildreps
Buildreps, did you comprehend NW's words? She's reading the map but do not understands the intention of it, what else could she be? I will accept being arrogant knowing she does comprehend what she reads, thus her words reveals her lostness.
Build: It's true if one is not a "believer!" Did Jesus have "free will?" Aren't "believers" suppose to be Christ-like? There it is- Truth- No "freewill for "believers" but "not my will but thine be done!"
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"Reality is a fact and that can't be changed."
Perception is reality. At one time experts believed the world was flat!
One has to see the whole in order to declare something is a fact.